Link to old thread and the dramas.
I'm sure I don't need to introduce myself, most of you have been supporting me for a good while now. Here's the link to my old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2708771#Post2708771 So he moved out yesterday, he has essentially got exactly what he wanted. After he moved out (and said nothing). He came back to my house for a few hours in the night. Just to sit in my living room. This morning he came round, asked how I was (I'm five months pregnant in case anyone didn't know, and I started to bleed last night). Started arguing with mil accusing her of doing something (it makes no sense, no one knows what she is supposed to have done). He came and told me he was not going to live anymore he has had enough, and make sure I look after the kids. I followed him and asked him what he was meaning. He said he was going to kill himself, and that I would receive a letter explaining why he did this. He then left the house, left his car. I went to the hospital, got back his car was there. Contacted the police saying what he told me. At some point he collected his car, officer called him- he said he was fine. He said he would come to the station and have a wellness check. He hasn't been. They visited me and took details, filed a missing persons. And said they would contact me. I have a feeling he will deny it.
I don't know if this is a cry for help. But I had to take it seriously. I sent him messages, anti db, but the basic jist was that he was loved, come home, and just think of the kids- no one else. He may never forgive me for doing this, but I stand by my decision. If I hadn't done this and he did something stupid I'd never forgive myself.
What a long day! I can't help but think, he has gotten exactly what he wanted- so why has he gone worse?!
Cherry, your h sounds like he needs medical attention for his depression.
He really does. But what concerns me is that he will quite happily lie as he already did to one officer over the phone. And if he appears fine when they make contact, they cannot have him admitted to any care facility. He has to be showing some obviously erratic or severely depressed behaviour. He is extremely good at coming across fine and making out that he never said such thing.
Ugh.
I hope you're going to get some rest soon, Cherry.
Please take care of yourself first.
Cherry- you did good and maybe saved a life. His lies and drama, there is really no way of knowing where the truth actually is.
Breathe deep and know that out there people like me love you and are proud of you.
Cherry, you absolutely did the right thing. He continues to put you in impossible situations and you continue to be strong and push through them.
You're a good person. Take some time for yourself when you can. Stay strong!
Cherry
Desperate people sometimes play suicide games. This is a way to control your behaviour. "If I threaten suicide they will do this [love me, be desperate etc]." It is very desperate and unsophisticated.
I am not saying your H is doing this, but he may be. Whatever happens just play it very clinically. He either needs medical help or he needs to grow up. Either way just be calm and caring. Don't get sucked into the rollercoaster - it could be his aim. Even if it's not his aim it could happen.
You are doing great. I hope you get further clarity soon. Either way it's work tomorrow so I presume you can check if he has turned up?
Surfer.
Cherry
Unfortunately reality has bitten your WH. The consequences are clear to him I think.
I believe hE is decompensating and this is very tough. You did exactly the right thing by calling for help for him.
As much as you might like to be his helper and support this is almost impossible as it will need full on professional support.
It will all be revealed in time, it's likelythere is a second dynamic as well, such as financial, job or OW backing out.
Stay well my lovely Cherry and rest for yourself and your baby.
Big rainbow hugs.
V
Guys, thank you for all the support. It's been a very busy and difficult couple of days. There has been several calls back and forth to the police. He has been back a couple times to the property today. He has been EXTREMELY distressed. He has been angry, upset. Give his final goodbyes. Dodged the police, told them over the phone he is fine. Told us to tell them to leave him alone. You name it we have had it. I've recorded his conversations where he admits to feeling extremely depressed, his plans for suicide, him saying his final goodbyes etc. I'm waiting on another police visit, I will give them the recordings. He clearly needs some emotional support and urgent medical care.
I'm staying strong. I have read up on talking to a suicidal person. There's been no anger. No trying to drag him to the marriage or even home. I've told him right now I don't care for any of that, I just want him happy, alive and well even if that doesn't involve me. And that's the truth, even if he has given up on the marriage. That's fine. I just want him alive, and I want him to get the help he so desperately needs.
Cherry,
I am so sorry about this. I can't imagine handling all of this, please make sure you lean on friends and family at this difficult time and don't try to handle it all by yourself. I know you are so strong and clear-headed, but I used to be like that and it has taken a huge toll on me physically after many years. Take care of yourself!
It sounds like you're doing everything perfectly, it was brilliant to record the conversations so you can prove what he's saying to you.
Thanks painter. I truly am, my family are being a great help with S, even though they don't live local, they've took him at times and they are constantly in contact. I also have a relative who is an attorney specialising in mental health, he's been a great support helping and advising on what can be done. He said the behaviours are textbook clinical depression and he needs help. Me and mil are also leaning on one another in this time.
Right now, it's painful to see someone you love so fragile, so unrecognisable. this isn't about saving my m anymore, this is about saving him.
Maybe I'm in self protect mode, and I've put all my feelings aside and operating on autopilot. First and foremost I'm protecting my child, and looking after me and the unborn child.
It's like wayward on speed. I'm interested to know if any other people have experiences of a wayward that's gone suicidal. I mean he has what he wanted right now. Everything has gone to his plan
Cherry,
You couldn't make this up! I hope you are able to find some kind of Northern Houmour in you - you know the kind, when you think .....WTF!
Well done in reading up on this and recording him. I was going to suggest the recording when I messaged yesterday but I thought it might sound devisive to you. I am pleased you did.
I can see you really caring for him coming out in this. Whilst I really feel for you and him, I can't decide if he is:
1 - Unstable
2 - manipulating
3 - both
If unstable. Could he harm you? Do you need to change locks etc? It doesn't sound that way but think about it. Are you sure he is not taking drugs - say smoking weed etc? Have you smelled anything on him?
Something has really flipped his switch. Is happens around the point of leaving in some cases. My W looked mentally ill. Her friends were even saying hey were worried for her. She looked mentally ill. It could be a phase.
Surfer.
Cherry
Please don't try to save him.
Leave that to the professionals.
It will be clear in due course if he is decompensating or manipulating.
I am here with hugs and listening.
V
It is not for you to save him. He needs professional help and therapy to develop good coping skills. This where it is vital that you lovingly detach. You let him know that you love him unconditionally but that he MUST seek the help he needs. He has no idea what he wants, he is floundering. You must not swim in and try to tread water with him, he'll pull you down. Instead toss in the life preserver (someone who is a professional) and let him swim to shore.
He doesn't seem on any drugs at all. No smell of alcohol of drugs. He just seems mentally as though something snapped. After he told us he could easily get the police off his back, I called for an update and that is what he has done. I said but this is exactly what he said he would do. We have had 2 years of this with him. But he hasn't ever thrown out a plan of suicide. I told them of the recordings of him clearly sounding erratic, angry and him outlining his plans. But they take his word. My next step is to contact the mental health team in our area and seek advise. I know I can't save him, and I know he needs to seek help himself. But I know that he seems even darker than he ever has and I am worried for his wellbeing, and for my piece of mind, I need to try all I can in my power to help him. Or god forbid, if he does something stupid, I would never forgive myself.
Don't worry, aside from being concerned for him, I've looked after me and kept S happy.
Or god forbid, if he does something stupid, I would never forgive myself.
My dear Cherry, please do not set this expectation for your self...there would be nothing to forgive yourself for.
He alone is responsible for his actions and you have gone above and beyond...
I would expect nothing less from you as I have gotten to know you in these months.
I don't have any advice nor thoughts as you are doing all that anyone could hope to do under the circumstances.
You are a truly brave and strong young lady.
“The strength of a woman is not measured by the impact that all her hardships in life have had on her; but the strength of a woman is measured by the extent of her refusal to allow those hardships to dictate her and who she becomes.” -C. JoyBell C.You and your family are in my prayers.
(((((Cherry)))))
Thanks SH. It's so tricky with db and knowing wether to take this as trying to grab attention as not much else has managed to get one so far, or to take the risk and take it as someone being serious. He told me when I met him that he had suicidal thoughts in the past and had been in a very dark place. He apologised to his mom for a whole load of issues in her life that haven't been his problem at all. I know he needs to be willing to get help. He's said himself that he doesn't have that urge to fight for himself anymore.
All I can do is leave it to him and the professionals and hope he finds the drive in himself, for the sake of his children.
And thank you for the quote SH. I've found more strength in me the last couple days I didn't even know I had.
Thanks SH. It's so tricky with db and knowing wether to take this as trying to grab attention as not much else has managed to get one so far, or to take the risk and take it as someone being serious. He told me when I met him that he had suicidal thoughts in the past and had been in a very dark place. He apologised to his mom for a whole load of issues in her life that haven't been his problem at all. I know he needs to be willing to get help. He's said himself that he doesn't have that urge to fight for himself anymore.
All I can do is leave it to him and the professionals and hope he finds the drive in himself, for the sake of his children.
And thank you for the quote SH. I've found more strength in me the last couple days I didn't even know I had.
The last section of DR for the depressed spouse says to do exactly what you did.
Now I would expect that you can pull back a bit, especially now that he moved out. you took it seriously...if it is an attention grab, then you are in a good place as you are not living together.
I would encourage tat you do not worry if it is real or attention grab as that is for him to handle.
You did exactly what you should have, Dbing and as loving caring person.
Be sure to care for yourself...worry and anxiety will not benefit you... easier said than done, I know. the good thing is you took action and you don't have to guess now.
My heart is just so heavy thinking of you having to take on this after all of it so far.
(((((Cherry)))))
Thanks SH. I shall revisit that chapter of db and refresh myself.
Yeah, him not living here is both and advantage and a disadvantage. The bad part is that I now have absolutely no idea as to what he has done or if he is well. But the distance can help with pulling back.
I'm taking care of me and my babies. Making sure everything carries on as normal in my household.
Thanks SH. I shall revisit that chapter of db and refresh myself.
Yeah, him not living here is both and advantage and a disadvantage. The bad part is that I now have absolutely no idea as to what he has done or if he is well. But the distance can help with pulling back.
I would encourage that you think of it simply as an advantage.
It will give him space to do what he needs too get straight with himself if he chooses.
The distance will allow you to be outside the ring of toxicity and you will heal and gain strength much from this.
It is not your responsibility to ensure that he is well...he is an adult...and I know that your heart will tell you that you should protect him, but listen to your mind as well...it will tell you that you have done all that you can to this point...you are the mother of 2 that do need you and that you are responsible for...pray for him...this is in your power...this is all that is left for you to do at this time.
I'm taking care of me and my babies. Making sure everything carries on as normal in my household.
Spoken like the true Warrior Queen that you are...
She could be gentle, kind and loving but let no one be fooled – she was a Warrior Queen who had the strength and courage to conquer all that life tossed her way. Queenisms
Cherry
Just give him space now. Try and focus on you and your S. Let him have space to deal with his issues. They are his, not yours.
This may just be an attempt to manipulate it may not but either way space is what is needed for all of you.
Don't forget, when a S leaves there is nearly always a fair bit of turbulence.
If he does something stupid it's his choice and has nothing to do with your actions.
Just keep calm and carry on now.
Surfer.
WOW I just caught up with you. You have had a lot to handle and handle it you are. You are brilliant. Don't doubt that.
I have been depressed in the past, even suicidal thoughts. It is a lousy place to be. For most depressed people, indirect cries for help are used because they cannot face directly seeking help nor facing the depression.
As others have stated, you cannot fix him. He may think you can, but you cannot. Regardless of what happens you are not to blame either. Don't even contemplate going down that road. As I have said before, you are remarkable especially for your age.
I can only imagine what you are going through. Not many could handle all you are handling. But do look after yourself. Put as much effort as possible into that. The strain you must be under is colossal.TThe next straw could break you. I think you are very strong but we all have our limits. This is why YOU needs to be your top priority now.
As for H and this is my personal non professional opinion. I don't think he is suicidal.Yes he thinks those thoughts. But most suicides that I know about were not following a wallow period with suicidal statements. I am.not saying he won't, but to me it reads more as a desperate man who doesn't see a way forward. I imagine the truth will not take long to reveal itself. Stay strong.
Vanilla is surely right about there being more to this. Maybe it has nothing to do with this, but it is also possible that the recent exposure of his A, and the resulting pressure could have caused that fantasy to crumble and he has to face reality and the aftermath of his actions. This is mindteading of course but I just wanted you to realise that if that is the case, this could be positive for saving your M. But that will depend on him.
So what are you doing to look after you? Journaling? Cbt?,mindfulness? Go treat yourself to something nice today.
Best wishes
Now that things have come to this point, I agree with SH that it's a blessing for your h to be out of the house.
You need the space. You have done what you morally should and then some. You say that he's been depressed in the past as well, which means that it's really all him.
He needs to save him. You can be there to give support but you cannot be his legs. He needs to learn to carry his own weight. Please don't try to save him.
(((Cherry)))
I don't think skank can cope with this. Let her see if this is what she wants to deal with.
Thank you guys, I actually got a fair bit of sleep last night for the first time in a while. I've took the day off as per hospital guidance to rest. And my mom has took the day off work so she can drive over and take S out for the day and give me and mil some proper rest. Neither of us has got much the last couple days, so this will help. And this is me and my 180 actually allowing my parents in and taking advantage of the support.
I have done a lot of reading around suicidal people the past couple days, not necessarily help for me. But I've found that it's another skill to have in my belt. Luckily, much like db, there's a lot of validation involved, and a lot of kindly speaking and letting them own their feelings, and not playing down how they feel. There was a couple of none db conversations and texts sent to him. None telling him to come back to the m, but just ones letting him know that he is very much loved and needed. Maybe this is a cry for help, or maybe it's genuine. Idk. But some of my pride had to be put aside and treated as a genuine suicidal person. But I must reiterate and no point have I told him that he has to come back to the m or the home. Just I want him safe and well, especially for the children's sake.
He has made the statement "in a few days I'll be gone", a few day it's his bday, this concerns me. He has thrown out the support of the police, so now the last resort will be the mental health team. What they can do I'm not sure. But I know that I need to do everything in my power, and these will be the last people.
But I am going to take some time to care for me too today. I shall get some rest, maybe pamper myself a tad. But most importantly get some rest from all responsibilities, and be a bit selfish. Knowing that S is happy, and having fun. He gets so so excited when he sees my parents, and they do spoil him and run riot with him. So that will be good for him, I know they also want to help me in anyway, and this will be a big help. I am quite protective of S, there's only really my parents and mil that I feel completely safe and satisfied.
Do you think I should reach out to him in a kind but subtle way? I know if I was fully following db I wouldn't and I'd be going dark on him, but this cry for attention and the suicidal threats have me thinking maybe I need a different approach?!
Thanks grl. I am such a maternal person, if anyone reaches out to me and they are in a dark place. Regardless of who they are- I always do my best to help them the best I can. I've been in a dark place, and I'm grateful for those who helped me out, I see it as my duty to repay that and help them.
I highly doubt skank will handle this at all. When she heard rumours she went baths!t at him and backed off. It wouldn't surprise me if she's already bailed, like the others say, there is probably many elements to this that I don't even know.
I am praying for you that skank has bailed for good. This may be what tipped your H over. He has nowhere to go now. But doesn't matter which comes first.
Cherry, I think what you have done is just right for the time being. You have given your h reassurances that he is loved. He will know that the door is not slammed shut.
If he reaches out to you again, maybe you could just validate and empathise. Continue to be kind and compassionate.
This latest incident may or may not work in your favour. But please remember that this is an issue that your h needs to work on. Whether or not he comes back to the M. He needs to be committed to a course of actions for his depression.
Or his depressive episodes, along with the possible accompanying As, will continue to mar your M.
Cherry,
It's really good how you are structuring your approach here. It shows a structured mind. It is good that you Mum has your Son too.
Ideally you should give him space to sort his head out. However, whilst his doing, he is now isolated and possibly vulnerable so I can see why you are struggling.
I think if you can do anything that helps him get in front of the 'right person' you should but you can't really control that.
Perhaps keep a healthy distance but drop him a text and let him know that you know he is in an awful place and that nobody wants that. Ask him just to call you or MIL, just so you know he is safe. However, ultimately, unless you have a mental health team on the call and he gives them a location and then is willing to go with them to get assessed what can you do? Also, even if he did, he would probably discharge himself at some point.
Also let your MIL take the load too. If he is acting in a childlike state he might actually need to talk to his mother?? IDK TBH - just trying to make sense of it???
Has he been to work? Does his firm know where he is? Have they tried to call him? Have you spoken to them? Just thoughts.
Also, is there a history of this behaviour that MIL has seen in him, his father or other family members?
There was a point where my W really did look mentally ill. It might just be seemingly unbearable pressure, I am not sure. she is fine now. But all you can do is be kind and caring, but let them work through it too and you are doing that. I hope you hear he is safe soon.
In the meantime, try to rest.
Surfer.
Thanks guys, my concern right now is not saving my m. I'm not sure if that's what I want right now. I just don't want him to be tipped over the edge thinking there is no way he can work through the mess he's made. Not only does he probably have the guilt of what he has done, maybe ow has bailed, he's blown A LOT of money on all of this, I'm talking grands and grands. He has also funnily enough left all his d paperwork here. He called me this morning in his way to work, he asked if I had the internal bolts on the door, or if he could get in. I said it was open, he came in for like a minute and went.
He seems to want to reach out to me more than mil right now. There's a history of his step dad acting this way, a lot of his characteristics and things he have said is very similar to what he said to his mom. It's kind of like history repeating itself. I only care that he is safe. That's all. But like you all say, I am doing as much as I can. Probably above and beyond for someone who has been fired as a wife. But legally as it stands, I'm still his wife, which gives me legally some power with regards to his health under the mental health act.
I'm actually having a very lazy day like I haven't had in a long time. A day of rest in my bed, a spot of online shopping, a cup of tea and a few guilty chocolates (well I am pregnant). I'll probably get a nice hot bath and take advantage of a few hours to myself to do ABSOKUTELY NOTHING. I know self care is essential for me right now, so intend to do just that.
Cherry, if he's not in any immediate danger, maybe you could give him some space first? Is there any way for you to know that he's safe so that you can have peace of mind?
I wouldn't call it pursuing if you want to reach out to him now as I know that R and M talks are the last things on your mind. I think there is a distinction between being clingy and reaching out. If you feel that he needs that extra reassurance, you should do what you feel comfortable with.
If he reaches out to you, continue to be compassionate. Your stability and compassion will be his lighthouse in this difficult time.
What happened with his step dad after he acted this way?
Grl, I'm not sure if he isn't in immediate danger, the way he talks, he sounds as though he is. I asked someone who doesn't know the situation if they saw him in work. They said they had, but he did not appear himself. I leftvthats at that. If I had piece of mind he was ok, my mind would be far more relaxed. He's moved way out of the area, so there's no knowing how he is.
Yeah I'm not being clingy, I reached out a couple times, as I've read up on people suicidal and one thing is just letting them know you are there. Not as a wife, not even thinking of a relationship. But a human being reached out to another in need.
I am surprisingly quite stable, maybe even more than I have been in a while.
His stepdad was slightly different. He would come home steaming drunk. The ending to him was being took away by the police. He had h's m at knifepoint. H was a teenager and he tackled this grown man and saved his moms life. This has deeply scarred him.
Despite this, I'm staying calm and carrying on. Lots of self care. The oxygen mask theory in operation.
Hey Cherry, long time no check-in as always.
Sorry to hear about your situation. But here's the thing. You cannot be who he is. In life we make choices, like you have and we must suffer those consequences.
But we cannot suffer someone elses consequences, can we? If he kills himself, then it is his hands that did it - NOT YOURS.
You need to detach alot more. You have a bundle of joy in your womb, that and your other child should be your only focus and what will ultimately give you peace.
You will not find peace regarding your no-good husband. Look inside and you will find all the love that you ever needed!
My gut feelIng he is probably okay, just going through a terrible time and he needs to speak to an IC and really open up. He is hiding something and not dealing with it I feel. It May be many things.
I hope you are okay.
Surfer.
No offence surfer, but who cares how he feels! He does not care how Cherry feels, so WHO CARES!
DDJ I get that (and I know it's a no offense thing - but thanks anyway), I'm just trying to reassure Cherry. She cares.
Surfer.
DDJ, I get what you are saying. But I can't sit by and allow that to happen. I know god forbid if he did something it would be all on him, but I can't allow that to happen. I said this isn't to do with saving my m, that's not even in my thoughts. I'm concerned with saving a life. If this was anyone else, anyone. I would do my best to help, because I can't sit back and allow that to happen. He's also the father to my children, and they need him. Even if that's him not with me, I don't care, I have a toddler constantly asking about him who loves him.
Thanks surfer, I know what you mean. Maybe he is just having a difficult time, and he really needs to see an ic. I'm just concerned from the way he talks, he is just so down he thinks he is beyond that and isn't willing to try. And I know that's all out of my hands.
I work in the mental health profession and Cherry is right, sending messages to a suicidal person that they are loved and needed is a good thing. She is not doing this with the ulterior motive of saving her M but rather reminding a potentially fragile person that he means something.
Her WH has done some pretty despicable things but that doesn't mean Cherry should just walk away when he is nearing death. (potentially I know)
Cherry, you cannot control your WH's actions but you are being compassionate. I am glad you feel calm and collected, remember he drowning and the only thing you can do is throw a life preserver to him. Remain out of the water and do not swim to him, he will drag you down. The messages are important but do not start to think his actions are a reflection of something you did or didn't do, kay?
(((Cherry)))
I have been on the other side, where your H is. By the time I tell people about my pain, it is a genuine cry for help. Usually, this would mean that my threshold has been crossed twice over and I really need a life buoy.
Just having someone speak to me, listen to me and validate me really does mean the difference btw me calming down and me feeling like it's definitely the end of the road.
For a person who's clinging on by the tips of his fingers, we wouldn't want to pry open his fingers and loosen his grip. Cherry's h may not be clinging on by his fingers but he sure sounds like he's pretty near the edge.
Smart Cherry, You're right to secure yourself and take care of yourself.
I work in the mental health profession and Cherry is right, sending messages to a suicidal person that they are loved and needed is a good thing. She is not doing this with the ulterior motive of saving her M but rather reminding a potentially fragile person that he means something.
Her WH has done some pretty despicable things but that doesn't mean Cherry should just walk away when he is nearing death. (potentially I know)
Cherry, you cannot control your WH's actions but you are being compassionate. I am glad you feel calm and collected, remember he drowning and the only thing you can do is throw a life preserver to him. Remain out of the water and do not swim to him, he will drag you down. The messages are important but do not start to think his actions are a reflection of something you did or didn't do, kay?
I love this Sara, "stay out of the water"...
This is the perfect analogy for this witch
Yes, compassion is the key here, he has reached a point that he does not have the faculties to cope with what he is going through...
Others will not be able to convince him he needs help, but compassion and a listening ear can buy the time needed for him to reach a stable place and determine that help is needed to overcome.
You are doing well Cherry... stay out of the water and continue to support him...
You are a rock, a lighthouse and a warrior queen...care for yourself to maintain the strength.
(((((Cherry)))))
Guys thank you. Sara, is it normal for them to continue to ignore you? I've sent him a couple of texts (nothing overboard or smothering, just letting him know I am here for him). I did a bit of reading on national suicide charities and NHS advise on helping someone suicidal. The distance of him being physically away makes it harder, especially when he's ignoring. It's his bday tomorrow and he's off work- this is when I fear he would do something, especially with him saying the day he came is the day he goes.
Grl I'm sorry you got to that point, I've had depression myself for a number of years, but for it to get to the extreme that you feel there's is no getting better and that you no longer have the strength to carry on must be awful.
Sara, that is great advise. My strength and calmness has surprised me, I'll continue to stand on the shore throwing the rope. The way I see it is that someone here needs to be strong, level headed, and emotionally stable to help. As well as continuously being strong for S so he doesn't get distressed thinking there's a reason to be worried, I know they pick up on this.
SH
A bit out of order calling PsySara a witch! Crikey!
Surfer
Only joking I know meant sitch.
Ha ha.
Surfer.
Hey guys, I have always been one to swim against the tide and I disagree with all of you. Cherry's no good WH is still looking for attention and Cherry is showing enabling behaviour to satisfy his attention seeking.
Your WH, Cherry, is broken, and no amount of texts can fix a broken man. Only he can help himself, with the grace of God. And if he decides to take his life, you need to be prepared for it. You cannot see the world through someone elses eyes, you cannot feel their pain, you are not them. My last 2c.
I get that there could be a possibility that he's just looking for attention, but like you say he is broken, I know I can't fix him. But nor could I sit back and shrug it off like it's nothing, in case it is a genuine cry for help.
Still haven't heard anything. Trying to not go into panic mode, as I know that won't serve me any favours. Kept myself busy, and took sometime to sit and enjoy feeling my baby kicking.
I know it's a bit of a tricky situation. I mean he has got our attention, and the tricky part is there is no knowing wether this is a genuine cry for attention or a manipulation technique. And it's a big gamble to just detach and leave him to it. I do have a question though, I'm not focussed on this, but just something I've been thinking, IF this is some kind of manipulation technique, what would a wayward gain from it? Temp check?
Got some plans to meet up with a friend. Trying to remember to take care of me in this time.
Cherry, did the police or your doctor refuse to do anything even with the recording? I would contact them, ask them for the supervisor's name, and let them know that I will get back to them if something happens to him and they refused to act. The intent of acting on it so soon and on a specific day should warrant action.
I can only imagine how you feel...
What's his mom doing about all of this?
Things must be different there in the UK. Here in the states if someone calls the authorities and says a relative/friend is espousing suicidal ideation then the person is taken in for a 72 hour hold. I've had patient stell me point blank to my face they never said they were suicidal just to have a note/recording/text/facebook post shown to me. We take a better safe than sorry approach to suicidal ideation here.
If your WH is doing this as a manipulation technique then he is most likely still crying out for help. Temp checking? It's possible but it would be far more effective to just ask you or text you. Regardless he sounds profoundly lost and depressed and needs help. Like I said, toss in the life preserver but don't swim in.
Painter, yep it got shrugged off by the police. They dropped it as soon as he told them he "was fine". They didn't get back in contact and when I spoke with them they said they take his word and let that be that. I spoke with the community mental health team, they filed a report to the police to revisit as they have concerns for his welfare. I explained all to social services who would arrange for a mental health assessment and they said contact a doctor! It is stressful as I feel like I'm just getting a door closed every time I try the correct channels and authorities.
Ginger, she too is going out of her mind sending texts, calling, leaving voicemails. We both are ringing around trying to get the urgent help he needs. Part of the problem is he isn't willing to get help.
Escalation is a good idea above. I would not actually speak to his supervisor. I would speak to the same policeman/woman. I would say I still have concerns and either you can create a plan of action that I am satisfied with or I will speak to your chief superintendent (find out their name and name them during the call) and I will ask for someone else that is able or willing to do this. You will get a reaction then I expect. If not you follow through with your plan.
Explain your circumstances too, child, heavily pregnant, H depression, separation etc and ask for a record of your discussions. Tie in MIL so you have a witness to discussions and make sure they are aware of this.
Surfer.
Sara, i didnt see you post last night, we must have wrote at the same time. It sounds like services in the US are far better than here. Unfortunately, the first point of call is the police who do a wellbeing check on the person, and if they feel that person is ok they drop it. Unfortunately, due to budget cuts, the police are very stretched, so other more serious (to them) emergencies take over. Plus, they aren't trained in the mental health field so I don't think they know what to look for. Every interaction I had with them, I told them he will lie and he is very convincing. My relative who works as a mental health attorney said this is a very distressed person who needs help. I just want someone to take me serious, do a proper assessment and take the recording and listen for themselves. I don't know why this isn't happening. Please rest assured that I am staying calm, I'm tossing the life raft but not swimming out. I'm remarkably calm considering.
Surfer, calling the police again is a good idea, I shall do that. MIL has been heavily involved. They visited us late one night and we gave statements and went through a lot of their admin with them. We have since both been contacting and said how we now have recordings, and told them of his plan. It's so hard hitting all these walls, I've been frustrated many times on the phone and said he has a plan, I have recordings, and he has pretty much told me the exact date (today, his bday), and is he supposed to just become a statistic as no one is willing to properly assess him. I'm not necessarily saying section him, but help him!
Cherry,
Whatever happens today I hope the news is good. Albeit whatever does happen will be about choices made by someone else not you. I can no more feel the blame for my W's choices than you can feel for yours so it is VERY important that you get this 100% clear in your head. You can only care for people you can't control them as you know.
I am not particularly religious however I do pray for some good news for you, your S, your MIL and wider family.
Surfer.
Thanks surfer, I sent a simple text and nothing. Going to chase up some calls, I feel like I've spent the last few days talking! Yeah I keep telling myself that this is likely a series of events that have happened in his world, and I have been trying my upmost.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I do truly hope this is a cry for help and he eventually turns up and really does get the help he needs. He is clearly not well, needs to be medicated and with some intense therapy.
I hate to say this, but could OW know where he is? Or if you know where she is, you can tell the police where she lives.
When this is all over, I'll explain why I made that suggestion. But I think maybe leading help to him is the best idea.
Regardless, there is nothing you can do to save him. he's got to want to be saved. You have been a loving person through all of this. You've helped for HIM. You are a wonderful woman, no matter what, always know that.
I get the strongest suspicion that the ow has dumped him, and that this is a major catalyst in this behaviour. I have the police her name the other day when they were getting information they were asking why he had moved so far away when he has a child (he's moved near her), and they asked if there could be anyone else- they had already jumped at the conclusion there was someone else.
He reached out and asked his mom if she could meet him today (in a public place), she said where shall "we" meet you (she assumed he wanted to see me and S too). He got angry and said no just you. S was with her when he rang, she asked if he wanted to speak to S, again he angrily said he didn't want to speak to him.
I know he is clearly unwell and in dire need of urgent care. I want him to seek that help, I also know I've done absolutely everything in my power and more to help him. But I am feeling a range of emotions, perhaps it's normal (I'm going to speak to an ic asap), while I know I do love him, I want him to be alive and well and get better. But I also know I'm feeling so deeply hurt and stressed, that I really think I don't want a R with him anymore. And again, that triggers guilt, as if he is actually unwell, that's me turning my back on him.
(((Cherry)))
It sounds like he has a lot of anguish and guilt.
Just a thought. Perhaps you could give your MIL some headsup on how to validate?
It is a very painful and confusing time for you. And your h really doesn't like someone you would want to get back with at this point in time.
These are off the cuff emotions. They are valid for the here and now but they may not last.
Let's just get through the issue of your h's safety first. You dont have to decide anything yet.
Later, when you're in a calmer state of mind, perhaps you can reassess your sitch again without having the adrenaline cloud your judgement. This is your M and you get to make the call but maybe now is not the best time to make any decision.
Doesnt sound like someone
Grl, thanks for the continued support. This really is so difficult, the not knowing and constant feelingbim getting nowhere is worrying me. When he reached out to her yesterday I sent her some links so then she knew exactly what to say and what not to say. Some about validation and some advising on how to speak to a suicidal person. You're absolutely right, the question of his safety is paramount right now. After mil saw him, he was just dropping her off and she said to come inside and see S. He came in, looked so gaunt and depressed and generally drained of life. I asked if he was ok, he kinda nodded and said "I won't do anything". He then mentioned something in passing to mil about not having any milk or groceries in .. isn't this a staple for someone setting up a home. He then proceeded to ask if we had envelopes in (he told me the other day of his plans and said we would receive a letter explaining why he did it). She quizzed him on this and he said he needed to send papers off to update addresses. Possibly I'm over analysing. But I can't take his word and he is seemingly depressed. He didn't say much to mil, he didn't say or answer why he wanted to see her and her alone. He said to her he wasn't going to do anything, but I don't know if he is trying to throw us off. He said he does feel very depressed but does not want to seek treatment. His work has also gone downhill and he's got some severe yelling S off to "sort himself out" from his boss. He is very proud and professional, he doesn't let anything get in the way. I've contacted more of the emergency mental health teams tonight and I pray someone can help. He already looks at me as though he hates me, he will hate me even more for this, but I'd rather have him alive.
Oh Cherry bless you.
Well done. You are a lovely person.
Keep doing what you are doing you can't do any more.
Surfer.
Cherry, ignore your h's looks. He's in a bad place now.
(((Cherry)))
Please remember that your wellbeing is as impt as your h's. I am biased so I will say it's even more impt.
Thank you guys. I just wish I was having more luck with the apparent emergency services. The crisis team for mental health just suggested the police (for the third time) they aren't trained in mental health so can't really help.
I have literally tried everything, several times. I just pray god helps him. Today, my wellbeing has took a hit, I haven't slept well and the constant phone calls have both drained and frustrated me. Tomorrow I think I will contact an ic for myself. I have access to phone counsellors through my health insurance with work, they'll also book and pay for private ic's for me to visit. I know I need to take advantage of this and help myself.
Cherry- you have been a Lighthouse and pilot boat for others long enough. Good for you to get some support for you. The world will keep turning on its own for now.
Cherry, let your mil handle your h for the time being. If you can, perhaps you can get your parents to go over to your place and help out with s?
You need time and rest to take care of your baby and yourself.
((Cherry)), just to let you know that I am thinking of you. I have no experience with mental health so can't give any advice but just wanted to echo grl's advice with regards to your ML taking a bit of the pressure from you. You need to really start thinking of your health and the health of your chicks. Remember you need to put your oxygen mask in first....
Cherry, how are you, dear friend?
After days, endless phone calls for help and worry. He's just turned up at my house and done the Islamic divorce to me. That's it now, in our religion we are no longer married (the waiting period is once I have given birth).
I am now going to go as dark as possible when there is child arrangements. I know he needs help, but now I don't know if he was genuinely suicidal or using it to manipulate.
Obviously I am fairly cut up. I'm going to ask mil to look after S so I can have a little time to myself to collect my thoughts.
Cherry,
It seems this has been coming either this way or with D papers. I am afraid he is a lost cause at the moment. Clearly his way of dealing with this has really hurt you - I would be really hurt too. I think going as dark as possible is the best thing right now, I agree with you.
Time to regroup as soon as you can after some down time. Could you chat to your friend, the good listener? I think you need someone to talk to right now.
I hope you are feeling more together soon.
Surfer.
I really don't think he is right in the head. But yep dark time.
I've let my closest colleagues at work know so there is no awkward conversations about him anymore. I have bags of support and lovely people who will pick me up and help me through this, as well as you lovely people.
But for today, while S is being taken care for in going to take some time to relax. Wether genuine cry for attention or not the last few days I don't know. I know I did the right thing to help him, but he won't take it. So I'm not setting foot in those waters. I tried. My conscience is clear. I'm taking a much needed day in bed. Truffles a cup of tea and movies.
(((Cherry)))
I haven't posted lately, but I have been here reading, and please know that I am silently sitting in your corner. My words to you remain the same. You WILL get through this.
You are beautiful, you are rising above the obstacles he keeps throwing at you, and you ARE getting stronger, even if it doesn't always feel that way. You may not see it today, but down the road you will see how overcoming these hardships has molded you into a better person. I believe this is the greatest silver lining for you and for all of us. What doesn't kill us, can make us stronger, if we choose to do the hard work, and you are making that choice. And under the hardest circumstances! This is why we all look up to you and admire you!
I still reserve my position that not much has changed in your sitch. It may feel that way--as he keeps throwing fireballs at you--but really his actions have been consistent all along. He has been having an A, he has been moving forward with D, he has been planning on moving out, and he is depressed/withdrawn in general. What has changed from last month to this week really? I say this because I see that each whack stings you and hurts you and I want to help you tighten your armor.
I think you know what to do. Perhaps you are afraid because you still have some hope left in your heart and if you let it go then that is the end? I recall feeling that way when I started to let go of my WH; it is a mental switch that is VERY hard to flick. I think you can do it. In fact, I know you can. I think when you release him, you will find that things get easier. He has already put you through h3ll and back, hasn't he? So by releasing him, and letting go of that hope, you set yourself free. He can no longer drag you down. Tighten that armor, Cherry, so when that baby comes, all your attention can go where you want it to go.
That doesn't mean that he won't come around some day at some time. You don't want him as he is right now and that would be toxic for you and for the babies. Perhaps one day he will help himself, get stronger, and think about his life from a healthy perspective. Then he can start making the changes he needs to make to be a good man, father, and H. Could be in months, years, or it may never happen. Unfortunately you cannot influence that. That's hard to accept, but you cannot. You can be the brightest lighthouse or the victim of all his guilt, but that will not bring back the man you want and deserve.
So what I would love for you today is to see this as a blessing and a new beginning. He can no longer hurt you because he has already hurt you in every possible way. So now that he is gone and your home can be safe, you can start to rebuild your nest with love and optimism.
((((Cherry))))
Blu
Thanks blu, it means so much for the support. You are right, I think it's just the absolute hell hes put me through the past few days has had an emotional strain on me, I'm a caring person and i know for a fact I could never do a job helping suicidal people because I'd never sleep at night for worrying about them. I've always been that super maternal figure caring about others. I think just for him to show up like all is well, act or not, and deliver that has just stabbed me somewhat more.
You're right this has strengthened me, in ways I couldn't have imagined. I wish I didn't have to learn my limits of tolerance this way. But I have. I've also learnt that no matter how broken a person is, you cannot change or help them unless they are willing to help themselves. After all you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
His mom is of course furious with him, but I've said maybe he really is troubled, but I can no longer be that one to be there for him and allow him to keep beating me. I said if she could keep check to make sure he isn't doing something stupid, but I cannot influence her no more than anyone else. If she is so furious that she can't deal with him then ultimately that too is up to her. But for a while, unless necessary, i.e. Involving the kids, I shall go dark/dim. I'm hoping that the somewhat physical distance with him out of the house shall help me along this next bit of my journey.
I am feeling some pain and confusion but ultimately nothing has changed. I just don't see him as a very stable person right now, especially with the suicide threats. That is a concern, but lord knows I've tried, I've gone above and beyond to help him, especially for someone fired as a wife. So now I will lean on people. The close people I work with have been amazing sending their love and support, there's a mix of people all ages, some who have been in my shoes, someone who was tragically left a widow with two young children, so I know they will love and protect me, but most of all go easy and not ask any difficult questions. I feel less like I'm living a lie which has possibly held me back a little so far.
Sweet Cherry
Much love and hugs thinking and sending you my rainbow strength
Here for you lovely lady
V
It's ok to feel angry and hurt towards him, it's ok to think of smacking him upside the head with a lead pipe. Don't even think about whether or not you want to R with him, just focus on taking care of yourself and also throwing him a life preserver when he starts to sink. Something I had to learn was not to decide anything about my M when WH was being a particularly selfish d!ck. I just focused on what actions I needed to take to protect myself. I am still struggling with this (as you know) but I am getting better at it.
Cherry, I really feel like we're some kind of kindred spirits with our parallel lives.
Lovely V, thank you for the much needed hugs and strength.
Sara, I'm not sure if I even have much choice about my m, since he threw me all 3 talaqs (not sure if it's valid IF he is depressed or without witnesses). But still, he made his point enough for me to duck out for a while. But you're absolutely right, I need to absolutely focus on me and my children for now, which should be easier now he's out of the house. Less eggshells to tread, less of that where is he and what's he doing, less awkward conversations if I'm feeling particularly annoyed with him and trying to hide it. I truly do think we are, such a shame we had to meet in such crappy circumstances though!
No it's not valid. For now speak to an Imam and get clarification on these things. You can't just permanently divorce your wife like that in Islam, otherwise she would be victim to her husband's whims and tempers. Forgive me I had typed the earlier response this morning and posted it this evening before reading your update. I am so mad at your WH right now I want to choke him.
I am thankful his ball of chaos is out of the house and you can just breathe and relax. He has chosen to burn his bridges and now you need to focus on strengthening your's. Surround yourself with love and support, you deservev every second of it.
Cherry, I am so sorry for what your H has just put you through. I agree with what Blu and Sara have said.
Take care of you first. Give your mil the task of ensuring H's wellbeing now.
You don't have to make any decisions right now. I can sense that you're very tired.
Like what Blu said, either way, you'll be fine. You have your legal ducks in a row. Should you decide to move on without your H, I am sure that you'll find a great daddy for your kids and a great H for yourself. You will be fine either way, so just focus on taking care of yourself first.
But I really feel like smacking your H.
Thanks ladies, I think there is quite a few people out to get his a$$ right now but I guess that's not my problem!
Sara, yeah I thought I would see an imam, going to get myself together a bit better the next couple days. But that is certainly on the list. I wasn't sure that it would be valid, but he walked out of the house quite happy as he said well now we are divorced. Sickening really!
I shall get up and out tomorrow. I had my day of a small pity party today, and a bit of chance to recover from the past few days of emotional turmoil.
I am glad that he SEEMED it a somewhat better place today. So long as he is alive, I guess that is the main thing. Other than that, I'm going to take comfort in the fact I can avoid him for a while. Keep seeing him and being reminded of him, and everything flaunted in my face has been something you guys know I have struggled with for quite some time. Now I can rebuild my nest and make it a calm sanctuary for me and my babies.
Exactly. Rebuild that nest.
Surfer.
Hi Cherry, I'm glad he is okay - and more importantly - you are okay! There is a stark contrast to you desperately trying to help him and him coming back home and 'divorcing' you. I guess at this point, help from the LBS isn't really welcomed.
I'm pleased you have told your colleagues too. Sometimes it is healthiest for us to share our vulnerabilities and let people be there for us. Enduring friendships are forged in that way and I imagine people will feel extra protective with little one on the way too.
I agree with all that has been posted by others. Time to completely let him go and move forward with your life. I imagine you will feel some relief that he is gone - along with some sadness. But ultimately you will be okay - that I know.
Best wishes to you :)xx
Thanks sotto. Ultimately, I am glad he is okay, as hurt as I am by him. I do think that he is deeply troubled, and as much as it hurts- I can't help him, I've tried. I've had depression since I went through cancer treatment years ago. I know how horrible it is, but for it take you to such a dark place you feel the world is better without you. But I know I have done all I can and more to help him.
There is a little more calm in the house, but a sadness to. I guess now I'm just battling many emotions, including confusion at how we went from the most loved up couple sharing everything and him completely obsessed with me and the most caring man, to this. But not only is he pushing me, he doesn't even seem to want to connect with S, which hurts. But S is seemingly ok, there's the odd- "where's daddy gone", and a few tears in the night. But with the help of great family, he feels loved.
There is some strange feelings, maybe it's that I've let go of him some more. But I feel single, for the first time. And it's strange. I'm sure you all know that exact feeling from a couple and always putting their needs first, to suddenly only answering to yourself.
You will be glad to know I dragged myself out today, took S out and met a friend for coffee. And bought myself some pretty new treats to cheer me up. Got a few things planned in for the weekend, so worry not- I shall be up and at um.
Just journaling my thoughts and venting a frustration, feel free to skim past this if you like.
Just had a crying session by something that probably should have made me cry. A former best friend of wh heard wh had moved out. He was asking how I was holding out etc.
It didn't take long before he swooped in offering to take me away for the weekend. If I wanna go on a date, that he thinks I'm beautiful and always has, and what a big mistake wh has made and bla bla bla.
I dunno, maybe I should see this as a compliment. But in my hormonal state, it didn't. It made me kinda scared, like it's been one whole day since people learnt of the split. I'm 5 months pregnant and not officially divorced. It kinda scared me to my core, I am so so so not ready for this. The thought of another man, or being intimate with someone else right now scares the sheet outta me. I know i need to push the thoughts of my wh out, but let me grieve!
Aw Cherry, just stopping by for a hello.
I too, had a similar situation and response!
I think what triggers the sadness is that "OMG how could he have left you, so wonderful and beautiful?" and then you think, yeah, how is this happening?
Eventually, more people will know and it will get easier. Don't worry about the future, or future men! You got this!
Cherry, just dropping by briefly. I haven't been keeping up w/ your situation. But this guy who is flirting w/ you ... just seems slimy, shallow and opportunistic to me. Doesn't really respect where you are, and is just wanting to get what he wants out of whatever encounter....
Be tough. Wish you peace.
Stay away from this guy, Cherry.
You need time to process what's going on. And he shouldn't be taking advantage of you right now.
Altruistic help would be asking if you need help with logistics, heavy stuff etc. Not asking to take you away for the weekend. Doodler should be able to help with altruistic suggestions.
(((Cherry)))
I am so sorry for the hurt you're going through. Is there anyone with you right now? Bff or mum?
I am keeping you and your family in my prayers.
Cherry,
Don't change the game. Back in the saddle and work on you and your S. do things to make you happy and stay away from any roller coaster.
As for the guy? Real men don't peruse ex friends wives or anyone's wife. Slime balls do though. Sounds like a real catch that one.......give him a swerve. you have had enough dramas for a while. Time to let life settle down.
Surfer.
Thanks guys. Don't worry, I know that. And there's no way him or any other male is going to come in my life right now. My focus is entirely on me and my little family. I know it's going to take a long time before I would even entertain a r with anyone else. I'm not ready for that at all! And I see him as exactly what forgump said, a slimy opportunist!
Surfer, definitely back in the saddle. Off out today to see family.
I think you are wise Cherry. Look at it this way - if a good friend of yours left her H next Tuesday, would you be in touch with him on Thursday saying - oh I always thought you were handsome, she's giving up a lot, would you like to have a drink sometime...weekend away??
Yikes!! That's not much of a friend he has...
Have a good weekend xx
Oh wow, that dude didn't wait for the bed to cool before trying to jump in, huh? I would use this more as an ego booster than a serious thought. You're 5 months pregnant and not yet divorced and the guys are already calling? Hawt dam Cherry, you're a sexy lady! Then simply tell the guy, "Sorry but no." Then walk away with a spring in your step knowing you still "got it."
You are amazing and strong, you are a titan.
Belieeeeeve me, nothing is further from my mind than taking on another man! Obviously deep in my heart, I long for my wh to work on himself and then come back and we could maybe work things, but I also know that possibly won't happen, so I need to let him go, and in time, build a different r where we can get along for the kids sake. In a sitch like this, I look to surfer for some inspiration. He's let his ww go, handles her crazy mood swings, builds his own life and kills it as a parent. You too Sara, you pick up the pieces every knock and still manage to be Wonder Woman.
I shall take it as a compliment, but give a little bye Felicia. It's time to adapt to life by myself and build myself back up again, this time, as a single kick a$$ mom!! I have been quite surprised at the male attention, then sometimes you see them glance down and see my bump and be like "wish". But as a single pregnant lady who feels anything but glowing, I shall take these compliments and leave it at that. A few plans in today. It seems any dealings with h is done by his mom. It's kinda hard to see him being caring about someone but not me or S, but maybe she can be the lifeline he needs. She is angry, and doesn't want her kindness to be taken for condoning, but I've give her some heads up on validating. He asks her "how are the others" referring to us, bit painful, but it is what it is.
Cherry
I know it's hard when you want him to focus on you - when he dealing with MIL. We all crave love, it's very, very normal. Abnormality would be the opposite.
For now it might be good to see this as a gift. You are getting time apart and your MIL will be dealing by with him for you - almost riding the roller coaster for you!
I see this as good. You can focus on you. Time apart might well give him space to get his head straight and talking to his MIL will help with that I expect. Try not to overthink the rejection aspects of this sitch. It's normal to but there is no point thinking about that as he as the WS right now and it will take time if he is ever going to be able to make the shift back. Space is important for you right now. It's a gift to help you.
Be the lighthouse - stable, independent always there and reliable.
You will hopefully start to feel a sense of relief Soon. It should bring some much needed calm into your life.
Surfer.
You're handling this with class and style, Cherry.
Hope you're getting the rest you need.
Grl, that's a very wise and accurate way to think of it actually. I think I feel guilty because he IS her son, she's seeing a psychologist who advises that this may help him as she thinks that maybe as an only child, he became a bit jealous he lost his mom. Either way, he must see our home as a place of calm, as he will come by when we are in. I shall just busy myself but be polite.
I'm forcing myself to go out and see friends and family and lean on them for support. I'm known to be a lone fighter, but this had led to me feeling like I'm bottling anything. I have people around me I can talk about things with, and then my bf, who is like a sister to me, she is there in the good times and bad, and we can talk to one another about anything and everything and it's stored in a safe place. She supports me and gives me a telling where needed, and genuinely cares for me. She also has supported my fight for my family and shares a lot of my values. She had been amazing!
You know this guy is a predator?
Mustardseed had this as did V.
Jerk wads.
V
Well V, this predator picked the wrong prey! He got a big ol' bye Felicia from me!
Wh came over to mine whilst I was out to do some laundry (he asked mil first). When I pulled up he was leaving, he came in to see S . I was friendly l towards him, treated him like a neighbour. He helped me bring groceries in and asked if I wanted help to put it away (he hasn't done this in about a year). I also noticed while he had been he had done some housework for me (vacuumed throughout, mopped etc) this is something that only I have always done in the house. I let him spend some time with S whilst I sorted a few things, he didn't stay long, but came up to say goodbye to me. After he left, I just sent him a simple text to thank him for doing the chores as it had saved me some jobs to do. He replied back straight away saying that's okay, and he will still try to be of use for some things.
I shall not read into things, maybe this is our new kind of r. But his LL is acts of service, and he previously said to me, that he shows his love towards me by doing things to help me. Whereas I am more touch/words. Either way, even through the sadness- this has been a much better weekend than last weekend
Glad to hear that it's been better it will continue to improve now Cherry you will get bits of sadness but separation does help in the shorter term. You need to use this time to make small kind improvements in interaction.
You are Already doing this.
Surfer.
The good news is that he's not being a jerk. That's an improvement from his previous behaviour. He may be feeling guilt because of his crazy behaviour.
You did great to be cordial to him. Note this small positive and file it away. Now that you can be consistently cordial towards him regardless of his behaviour, don't let the changes in his behaviour sway your course.
If he spews and gets nasty again, stay on even keel, validate if possible. If not, zip the lips unless you have to set firm boundaries and try to get out of the sitch asap.
If he's nice, match his brightness. If he is consistently nice, then go just a teeny little bit brighter and see what happens.
We're looking for long- term trends here.
Yeah, thanks surfer. I now get what you mean by when you said separation can bring a sense of calm, as well as the odd sense of sadness. And the sense of calm is that our routine is less interputed with the when is he going to come home, or what mood is he going to be in, and am I going to get spewed upon.
Obviously he feels comfortable enough to swing by. He says he will be over tomorrow. When he left he branded the house toxic. Maybe he will see a change in my behaviour as I begin to truly working on me and looking after me. The desperation I may or may not have been emitting may have gone as I begin in thinking that I just need to get myself to a better place to interact with him as the father of my children, NOTHING else. I don't think he's going to like it if he hears that other slimy creeps are putting the moves on me. He told me only the other day that I deserve better than him and he will grill any man that comes into my life (we shall see about that!) Ashe wants to know that they are good enough for me and will look after me. That kinda came across to me that he doesn't want me, but he doesn't like the thought of anyone else having me either. Truth is I'm okay being alone, yes I'd love to have my family back together, but for me personally, I see that after a big commitment, you need to take a good lot of your time to just focus on you and figure out what you want in life. I don't want a rebound, and certainly not while pregnant, I'd feel as though I'm disrespecting myself and my baby. I know some women do find someone else while pregnant, but this is just my thoughts.
I see the time after a breakup as that time you rediscover you. When I broke up with my ex, I went travelling the world for a while. And I came back refreshed, replenished and confident. Obviously I can't do the same thing now, but I'll find a way to achieve this without packing my bags and escaping for a while
Thanks grl. I guess today was the first encounter after the rough. The calm after the storm so to speak. And yeah, he wasn't a jerk, and wasn't angry. He didn't make much eye contact, and he didn't look his usual groomed self. I however, had been out so made an effort, and if I say so myself- I looked good!
I think I've done quite good previously at achieving the being cordial despite what he throws, so I shall get back to that. And I'll be a bit mysterious to him. I'm kinda just standing in the distance to him now. Not being rude, but nor will I let him see much insights in to my life. This may take a bit of faking to start, as I'm still adjusting, but I'm sure I will get there!
Cherry
Yes him not coming home should provide fairly immediate relief in terms of eggshell walking. That's good. Time is now your free friend. You have at least 6 months before a D can happen. Forget the whole verbal divorce routine - I think it was just him being crazy and dramatic. From what you said it wasn't performed correctly anyway. Just focus on 6 months at least to work on you and your babies.
Re: toxic house. Of course it was. That's a why he keeps calling back. He 'felt' toxic. He was projecting his feelings onto the house. Think about it. A house can be no more toxic than a flower. It's the relationship inside the house and he still keeps coming back to that that...the good news is he has not let go of you.
Also, with him popping back and talk of interviewing other men. That's all control. Popping back is temp checking. Interviewing other men? What a pile of @rap. Exactly how many would he give you the nod on? I will tell you how many - precisely none. No he is trying to stay in control of you - at least in his mind. I would ignore all that nonsense.
It's important that you pay no mind to him now. Get back in the saddle. Use this time to GAL, be happy with your S and have fun. Be kind to you and enjoy the space. Like me you enjoy your own space. TBH I think like me you are probably just as happy pottering at home as you are in a group and often happier just at home. A home bird as such I think. IDK - if you are that will bring calm but be careful to get out too!
I am a bit unsure about what to say on the constant temp checking. I feel like you should be less availble for this. I have seen it myself. It's control and I think allowing someone to control is not good. I would be keen to hear what any others might think about it( should you set boundaries? How if so? Not sure.
Surfer.
Also. If he's 'popping' by every now and then, it might be worth telling him you need notice. You have a life now and may be busy. Perhaps put a positive slant on it - for you it gives you time to make sure you are looking and smelling your best. For him you are definitely around as is your S.
I would watch how much time he spends with you and S also. I bet it will be 95% you. Which I guess he is coming back to see you - even if he is checking up. I am not an expert on temp checking at all so I will have a read up on that. I know what it is but I wonder if there is anything that helps them (rather than hindering three) to see the best version of you during each temp check or whether they temp checking is best avoided. IDK hopefully someone else has more experience in what works here and will chime in.
Surfer.
Surfer you are right re the control. I'm afraid he surrendered the right to that when he left and fired me as his wife. I don't have 6 months, just shy of really. It'll be until I deliver, so about 4. He did another surprise visit. I was busy, I had put s down to sleep and was sorting papers. He came in to see me, starts making chit chat with me, asking how I was. I was friendly enough (feels a bit of an act right now). I heard him go in another room, he got a call- I could tell from the way he was speaking and the tone in his voice he was speaking to a female, he then quietly says hang on in a minute, mutes his phone and comes in. I couldn't hold it in, and I said you're on the phone to a woman, he denied it (no anger) I said I know how you speak to girls, and again he denied it. And then left. Everything is still a bit raw, so yes I am hurting at his disrespect, I also felt like taking his keys from him. Right now, I would sooner not see him. It's too painful!
Cherry,
Why do you have 4 - I am confused?!
You could always be a bit slow etc in any event. Not much point I guess though. I guess I am saying you can stretch these things out but it does seem rather pointless.
Why does he keep coming round? Is he picking something up? How long does he stay? Can't you ask him to pre-arrange his visits? He's getting his own space but not giving you yours. It seems controlling again. IDK - its hard to light the way home etc when he seems just to be blatantly disregarding your space. Mmmmm. Perhaps the best thing is to 'act as if [he is a nosey neighbour]. The reason being he might get off on you reacting and try to cause an argument and you may snap so don't get involved emotionally; I guess observe him going forward but keep your cool. Don't let him wind you up. If he picks up the phone to OW when you are around you know he/she are trying to get to you through disrespect/goading. Either way don't rise to it.
Or tell him yes come round, arrange a time. Make sure you are focused or out (preferably) - might be good to see how he reacts if you are out and only you MIL is around....? Could try being around and on the phone to another man! It would flick his switch, only joking - why bother? It feels like manipulation rather than observing as such.
Going dark, avoiding all contact and being out when he calls round I think. Play it all safe and stay away from him for a while.
Back to focusing on you. Just put him to one side in your life for now. Did you speak to EAP or IC?
Surfer.
I'm afraid he surrendered the right to that when he left and fired me
I can get where you are coming from. However is it healthy to be controlled by your W or H? I think you have capacity to feel you are not worthy at times, perhaps you like a dominant man IDK, perhaps you feel a bit less than worthy of kind behaviour......but control is not healthy in my view. We all have been victims to it on here - to some degree. But it's good if you recognise that because now - you can tell him the new boundaries.
I.e....
You chose to leave this house. Whilst it's still here there are now some boundaries as I am the man of the house. You have your life and I respect that. Please call before you turn up. If you turn up you might not be welcome. I might have guests etc...
I am not sure what kind of boundaries you need but moving out is a game changer and it gives you lots of time to straighten your mind and work out some 180's - such as.
"Look sorry, this feels controlling. I am not saying it is, but I am saying it feels that way. Please don't get confused, I am afraid it's not for me this way of behaving/communicating. Perhaps you have other friends you can do this with, people that will accept it? IDK.... I live here with my S, you are divorcing me. You don't need me for that and I neither want or respect it. Please don't attempt that again, it will result in me exiting any communication. I trust I am being clear."
Be confident and strong. But let him know he changed the game and here are the new rules (consequences). Don't be putative - a fine line - but do let him know the consequences of his actions.
Before you get involved in this though. Get some space from hi for at least 2-3 days if you can. Set your head straight Cherry. Then move forward.
Does that help?
Surfer.