What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 11:06 AM
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 11:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
Thx ya'll, just knowing that we are gonna sign the contract to sell the house this morning, and that will be that, brought on a lot of emotion. It appears it did for W as well, I woke up to see this text:
"It makes me really sad that you have decided to leave the state. I realize that you have to do what you feel is best for you but Son is going to be so sad & i just can't believe that you don't want to be in his everyday life anymore.
I know you are anxious to start your new life but I wasn't in a hurry to rush the divorce. I guess I still had some hope that we may be able to find our way back to each other at some point. Sorry to dump all this on you. It's just really sad. "
I gotta be honest, it's a message that I wanted so bad for so long, but it doesn't mean much to me now. I'm really in a good place, and it kinda irritates me that she could keep doing everything she's been doing and then admitting that she wants to keep me as her backup plan. I don't even know how to respond to that, or if I even want to. If I was giving DB advice to myself, I would probably say:
"A D isn't want I want, but it just isn't that easy anymore, a lot has happened in the last few months and actions haven't shown any indication to me that fixing us is what you really want. It pains me not to be part of sons daily life, but selling the house takes me out of that role regardless of where I live, even if I lived locally I would only be able to be with him once or twice every two weeks."
Thoughts?
"It makes me really sad that you have decided to leave the state. I realize that you have to do what you feel is best for you but Son is going to be so sad & i just can't believe that you don't want to be in his everyday life anymore.
I know you are anxious to start your new life but I wasn't in a hurry to rush the divorce. I guess I still had some hope that we may be able to find our way back to each other at some point. Sorry to dump all this on you. It's just really sad. "
I gotta be honest, it's a message that I wanted so bad for so long, but it doesn't mean much to me now. I'm really in a good place, and it kinda irritates me that she could keep doing everything she's been doing and then admitting that she wants to keep me as her backup plan. I don't even know how to respond to that, or if I even want to. If I was giving DB advice to myself, I would probably say:
"A D isn't want I want, but it just isn't that easy anymore, a lot has happened in the last few months and actions haven't shown any indication to me that fixing us is what you really want. It pains me not to be part of sons daily life, but selling the house takes me out of that role regardless of where I live, even if I lived locally I would only be able to be with him once or twice every two weeks."
Thoughts?
So this was from last thread, since then I got a call from mother in law this morning saying WW was posting sentimental stuff last night, something about not knowing whats worse, saying something that you regret, or regretting not saying anything when you should have. then someone commented saying yep, been there, and WW replied yeah, especially lately. Said she called WW last night, and she was crying and upset about whats going on, but wouldn't really talk to her.
Then, just started getting texts from WW BFF, saying
BFF - "Are you sure you wanted to do this? Shes having second thoughts. Weve been talking heart to heart the last few days.
Me - WW knows exactly what I would need to get back together, I have told her the two things I would need, two things that I am not willing to budge on. I don't want this, but if she's not willing to do what I would need to stay together, then it is what's going to happen. I'm willing to do anything to save my marriage, but we would both need to be willing to do that, otherwise it isn't going to work.
BFF - I got her to understand giving up the firefighter thing. I think she'll do it.
BFF - She's been liking wedding stuff all day and watched your wedding video last night. She doesn't want you to go.
Me - look, I appreciate your telling me, but I need her to talk to me, I need her to tell me how she feels.
BFF - that's what I told her. She's scared. I told her to wake you up last night. Once you sign the house away, it's pretty much final.
BFF - Go grab her and kiss her. Come on, lets get you two back together. Talk to her, please.
Me - I've already signed the offer, it's in her hands now, but if she can't talk to me, then she doesn't want it very bad... it's in her hands
BFF - whats the other thing?
Me - If she really wants it to work out, she needs to not send in the offer. There's no way I'm going to grab her and kiss her, that's not something I want to do right now, balls in her court.
BFF - sorry I'm a hopeless romantic. To many movies, lol.
Me - The other thing is transparency, no secrets, no downloading apps and hiding it, no secret communications with him. I've fought for her for the last 6 months, I'm finally ok with moving on.
BFF - I agree with you 100%, she needs to leave the fire station all together.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 11:52 AM
Cnut! From the aspect of wanting our marriage to be saved that sounds very positive. I think you hit the nail on the head with BFF. Your W needs to do the heavy lifting and those are two very understandable things
Hoping it goes well
Hoping it goes well
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 12:11 PM
Oh my gosh I got goosebumps reading that exchange! Stay strong Cnut you are doing great standing firmly by what you need.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 12:13 PM
Hahah I was thinking the same thing Coly....your responses were super!!!!!
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 12:22 PM
It almost sounds like you were doing a LRT without actually doing the LRT to get her back and it seems to be working.
Whatever happens Cnut I think you handled your sitch about as well as you could.
Whatever happens Cnut I think you handled your sitch about as well as you could.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 12:25 PM
I got to tell you that it took me a long time to be ok with whatever outcome happens, but as soon as that happened, she noticed. I really am ok with not selling the house and trying to save our M, but I'm just as fine if we do sell and move on, it really feels good being ok either way.
I am not trying to convince her either way, the only thing I said to her is that once they have the contract we cannot back out, but I'm not trying to convince her of anything. I don't want her if she's not willing to do what's needed, she needs to make that decision on her own. I am a bit concerned about her not signing for the wrong reasons, (so son doesn't have to move), but I can't control that. We will see how this plays out.
I am not trying to convince her either way, the only thing I said to her is that once they have the contract we cannot back out, but I'm not trying to convince her of anything. I don't want her if she's not willing to do what's needed, she needs to make that decision on her own. I am a bit concerned about her not signing for the wrong reasons, (so son doesn't have to move), but I can't control that. We will see how this plays out.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 01:20 PM
C-Nut,
Oh geez! The drama with you just never ends, does it? :-)))
I have still been following your sitch, but have been at a loss of what to post. When you were a slow driving train wreck, it was easier to just jump in and slap you on the wrist!
Now your sitch just makes me sad. On the surface, we all get hooked in like with any good tv soap, but underneath that are two people that very much care for one another. However, you are both so painfully stubborn!!!
IMHO if you truly love her and if you truly want your M, then you need to ask yourself if an ultimatum will bring you that. It will never work this way. There I said it. Done. You don't have to go on now and try and convince me otherwise. Don't. What do I know.
Best of luck in your new state! (((C-Nut)))
-Blu
Oh geez! The drama with you just never ends, does it? :-)))
I have still been following your sitch, but have been at a loss of what to post. When you were a slow driving train wreck, it was easier to just jump in and slap you on the wrist!
Now your sitch just makes me sad. On the surface, we all get hooked in like with any good tv soap, but underneath that are two people that very much care for one another. However, you are both so painfully stubborn!!!
IMHO if you truly love her and if you truly want your M, then you need to ask yourself if an ultimatum will bring you that. It will never work this way. There I said it. Done. You don't have to go on now and try and convince me otherwise. Don't. What do I know.
Best of luck in your new state! (((C-Nut)))
-Blu
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 01:27 PM
lol, Blu I feel like I was just the victim of a drive by shooting.... Now you know the best way to get someone to do something is to tell them not to, so I'm not sure if your using reverse psychology..
Anyway, I don't think no contact with OM and transparency is an ultimatum, it is my boundary and I'm not able to live with her without those two things. If it comes across as a ultimatum, it is not my intention, but it is worth not getting back together, for my own sanity if nothing else.
Anyway, I don't think no contact with OM and transparency is an ultimatum, it is my boundary and I'm not able to live with her without those two things. If it comes across as a ultimatum, it is not my intention, but it is worth not getting back together, for my own sanity if nothing else.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 01:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
lol, Blu I feel like I was just the victim of a drive by shooting.... Now you know the best way to get someone to do something is to tell them not to, so I'm not sure if your using reverse psychology..
Anyway, I don't think no contact with OM and transparency is an ultimatum, it is my boundary and I'm not able to live with her without those two things. If it comes across as a ultimatum, it is not my intention, but it is worth not getting back together, for my own sanity if nothing else.
Anyway, I don't think no contact with OM and transparency is an ultimatum, it is my boundary and I'm not able to live with her without those two things. If it comes across as a ultimatum, it is not my intention, but it is worth not getting back together, for my own sanity if nothing else.
You see, I knew you couldn't resist! Muah ha ha haaa!
Boundaries or ultimatum? I don't know. I mean really, this is all so confusing and hard. But I do know that life is short and there are plenty of fish in the sea. You will be great!!!
-Blu
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/15/16 04:22 PM
Ok, offer was signed and sent... She didn't even have the decency to tell me, I had to text the realtor and ask.. Lol, she never ceases to amaze me, you think she would have mentioned it
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 04:31 AM
No OM and transparency is an absolute must, if there is a real MR after the kind of deception she gave. It is certainly not unreasonable to expect fedility and proof to back it up. She was a cheater and a liar. She would be very lucky if that's all that was required from her.
Look, this is dropping the rope. She knows he means business, b/c just like all WW's, she can tell if it's a gimmic or the real deal. Now she's getting nervous and sees he's not going to plead with her to give him another chance. If she goes to him, willing to do what he wants.......then he has the option of making that decision. But if he backs down just b/c her BFF put a bug in his ear..........it will won't last.
I am still hoping, Coconut. LBS's who enforce boundaries can be so close to the edge of things turning around.......if they'll not let the fear get ahold. IDK, maybe your WW was doing what BFF claimed. Although, it's a little hard to think BFF could talk WW into giving up FF. That may be BFF just telling you what she thinks you want to hear.
It's hard to swallow stubborn pride, but that is what the WW has to do.......if she is serious about wanting her M. She has to be the one to make the step toward you.
Look, this is dropping the rope. She knows he means business, b/c just like all WW's, she can tell if it's a gimmic or the real deal. Now she's getting nervous and sees he's not going to plead with her to give him another chance. If she goes to him, willing to do what he wants.......then he has the option of making that decision. But if he backs down just b/c her BFF put a bug in his ear..........it will won't last.
I am still hoping, Coconut. LBS's who enforce boundaries can be so close to the edge of things turning around.......if they'll not let the fear get ahold. IDK, maybe your WW was doing what BFF claimed. Although, it's a little hard to think BFF could talk WW into giving up FF. That may be BFF just telling you what she thinks you want to hear.
It's hard to swallow stubborn pride, but that is what the WW has to do.......if she is serious about wanting her M. She has to be the one to make the step toward you.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 07:56 AM
I completely agree Sandi2, the first time I just wanted it to work, so I layed out the red carpet and made it as easy I could for her "to come back to me". The problem was, she came back for the wrong reasons, because it's what she was supposed to do, because it would make life easier for us and son, etc... But her heart wasn't in it, she really didn't regret what she did, she just regretted that it hurt me. Maybe she was hoping she would fall for me again, but I don't believe she wanted it bad enough to work for it.
It's amazing how clear it all is now, when I just didn't understand before. I'm actually kind of glad that she signed to sell the house, because I don't know that I would have trusted her motives if she hadn't, I woulda been afraid her decision was based on not wanting to move son, not because she was committed to me.
I also understand why me moving impeads opportunity for me to save my M, I am really considering staying local for a bit to see where things go, but I haven't fully decided yet. I really want to go, for me, but it would put me in a better place financially to stay local for a bit, live cheap, save up some money and then decide.. I know that's the right thing to do, but it's not what I want to do, I've got some real thinking to do this weekend..
I have dropped the rope, my decision will be based on me, do I do what I want and be a WAH or do I stay to keep a path back to M?
It's amazing how clear it all is now, when I just didn't understand before. I'm actually kind of glad that she signed to sell the house, because I don't know that I would have trusted her motives if she hadn't, I woulda been afraid her decision was based on not wanting to move son, not because she was committed to me.
I also understand why me moving impeads opportunity for me to save my M, I am really considering staying local for a bit to see where things go, but I haven't fully decided yet. I really want to go, for me, but it would put me in a better place financially to stay local for a bit, live cheap, save up some money and then decide.. I know that's the right thing to do, but it's not what I want to do, I've got some real thinking to do this weekend..
I have dropped the rope, my decision will be based on me, do I do what I want and be a WAH or do I stay to keep a path back to M?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 08:01 AM
I'm not sure you can't have both, C-Nut. Go where you want and keep the path open. There are airplanes and any other number of methods of transportation available to us in this day and age. The internet is highly functional,as are phones. If she ends up truly remorseful and wants to make it work with you, she can find you. And you'll know when/if it's real. She might miss the boat; you might love it where you're going and, eventually, find a better match, but that's her problem. You're going to be fine.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 01:29 PM
ok, quick update... I emailed the company I applied for (I'm pretty sure they were going to select me) and asked them to remove me from consideration. I just want to slow down a little bit, and having to move up there in 3 weeks would have just been a little much. I'm still going to look to move, but would like to make it two or three months down the road.
WW BFF text me today, says:
BFF - She just deleted me as a friend. We are no longer friends.
Me - Stop doing that... You two will work it out again, but you can't harass her (if you are) you know she's stubborn. But she needs you, your her best friend... I'm not saying you need to support it, just don't bash it, your the link to the old WW, she needs your light to find her way back... She NEEDS you in her life
BFF - she deleted me off of FB, I think she blocked my texts too because she's not responding
Me - LOL, oh so it's really serious now if it was a FB delete.. Give it time, but I hope you don't give up on her, she didn't do it to you, find a way to forgive her, I did and it's amazing the difference it has had on me.
Me - I really appreciate your support, it means the world to me
Me - But understand the guilt she feel right now is overbearing on her, just try not to add to that, your her friend, just be there for her to lean on... Hopefully she will find her way back to the old WW
BFF - I always was your favorite friend!! :-)
Me - Without question one of, scratch that, not one of but THE most fun friends ever.
WW BFF text me today, says:
BFF - She just deleted me as a friend. We are no longer friends.
Me - Stop doing that... You two will work it out again, but you can't harass her (if you are) you know she's stubborn. But she needs you, your her best friend... I'm not saying you need to support it, just don't bash it, your the link to the old WW, she needs your light to find her way back... She NEEDS you in her life
BFF - she deleted me off of FB, I think she blocked my texts too because she's not responding
Me - LOL, oh so it's really serious now if it was a FB delete.. Give it time, but I hope you don't give up on her, she didn't do it to you, find a way to forgive her, I did and it's amazing the difference it has had on me.
Me - I really appreciate your support, it means the world to me
Me - But understand the guilt she feel right now is overbearing on her, just try not to add to that, your her friend, just be there for her to lean on... Hopefully she will find her way back to the old WW
BFF - I always was your favorite friend!! :-)
Me - Without question one of, scratch that, not one of but THE most fun friends ever.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 01:52 PM
If they're BFF why would your W delete her? Was it because she thought her BFF was taking sides with you?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 02:45 PM
Yep, her BFF is pissed at what WW did & is doing.. Standard WW action, isolate from those who don't agree with actions and surround self with only supporters..
I should add WW has been BFFs for 25 years and is godmother to one of BFFs daughters... What I find most ironic is that WW had a hissy fit when I told her she needed to unfriend OM when we were "piecing", said its just FB and doesn't mean anything, but she deleted some of my family who posted generic comments referencing her actions and now BFF... Actions truly speak volumes, we know what they mean when we see them, we just don't want to believe them
I should add WW has been BFFs for 25 years and is godmother to one of BFFs daughters... What I find most ironic is that WW had a hissy fit when I told her she needed to unfriend OM when we were "piecing", said its just FB and doesn't mean anything, but she deleted some of my family who posted generic comments referencing her actions and now BFF... Actions truly speak volumes, we know what they mean when we see them, we just don't want to believe them
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 03:09 PM
My WW is doing the same thing...Isolating herself from her BFF's that she grew up with since grade school...surrounding herself with supporting friends at her employment. I think that is common for most WS...
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 03:42 PM
Sandi2 / Wonka,
If you see this, can you stop by lostaf's thread and make sure I'm on the right track with my advice?
If you see this, can you stop by lostaf's thread and make sure I'm on the right track with my advice?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 05:37 PM
I know I'm mind reading here, but do you think it's possible that your wife's BFF might have embellished in what your W was telling her, she got wind, found out and got mad at her?
She may be trying to play matchmaker and it backfired on her.
She may be trying to play matchmaker and it backfired on her.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 06:03 PM
Any things possible, but I know her BFF very well, and she isn't afraid to speak her mind, actually I don't think she has the filter that most of us have...
This is the second time that they have stopped talking since this sitch began, because BFF knows that I'm an awesome guy, and there aren't many men like me out there, and even less that would put up with WW... BFF was the first one that called WW out about there being another man, she saw the changes in WW before anyone else (other than me) although I didn't know it at the time.
This is the second time that they have stopped talking since this sitch began, because BFF knows that I'm an awesome guy, and there aren't many men like me out there, and even less that would put up with WW... BFF was the first one that called WW out about there being another man, she saw the changes in WW before anyone else (other than me) although I didn't know it at the time.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 08:35 PM
Hey Coco, man, I've been following from a distance and sending you silent support. What a roller coaster. You're handling it like a champ. The false hope is painful, and while you're strong enough not to let it break your sway, it's a lot to go through and I feel for you.
You know, this might not be exactly applicable, but it is on my mind so now you get to hear about it
The idea is called "medicating with positive intention"
My dad coined the phrase (to the best of my knowledge). He was talking about someone we knew that was an addict. They were at their bottom. Everything was dark. The world was pain. They couldn't go on anymore. So this person started thinking about quitting their drug of choice. They started fantasizing about how they would get clean, straighten up their life, and things would get better. Little by little this person would stop sobbing, and start feeling a bit better about themselves and about their prospects.
Great. Only one problem- they hadn't DONE anything yet!
The funny part is that as this person started feeling a bit better, they decided "meh, this isn't so bad after all". And they decided that they didn't really need to give up their drug of choice, because they could get through ok.
Isn't that whacked?
But it makes sense. I've seen it play out with people not leaving abusive relationships, where they call their best friend, dump, make all of these plans on how they are going to leave, then feel better so decide they don't need to. I've seen it happen in other areas as well.
None of this matters and it's all speculation and mind reading, we don't know if this is what your WAW did. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But if looking at it this way makes it easier for you, and for the other newcomers who read this thread in particular, to remember to watch their feet and not their lips, well, then it's worth me sharing.
Take care C, and tip of the hat for navigating through a tough mine field.
You know, this might not be exactly applicable, but it is on my mind so now you get to hear about it
The idea is called "medicating with positive intention"
My dad coined the phrase (to the best of my knowledge). He was talking about someone we knew that was an addict. They were at their bottom. Everything was dark. The world was pain. They couldn't go on anymore. So this person started thinking about quitting their drug of choice. They started fantasizing about how they would get clean, straighten up their life, and things would get better. Little by little this person would stop sobbing, and start feeling a bit better about themselves and about their prospects.
Great. Only one problem- they hadn't DONE anything yet!
The funny part is that as this person started feeling a bit better, they decided "meh, this isn't so bad after all". And they decided that they didn't really need to give up their drug of choice, because they could get through ok.
Isn't that whacked?
But it makes sense. I've seen it play out with people not leaving abusive relationships, where they call their best friend, dump, make all of these plans on how they are going to leave, then feel better so decide they don't need to. I've seen it happen in other areas as well.
None of this matters and it's all speculation and mind reading, we don't know if this is what your WAW did. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
But if looking at it this way makes it easier for you, and for the other newcomers who read this thread in particular, to remember to watch their feet and not their lips, well, then it's worth me sharing.
Take care C, and tip of the hat for navigating through a tough mine field.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/16/16 11:24 PM
I get it Zeus... And I think it is applicable, in fact I think it's applicable to both the WW and LBS.
On my side, I relished moving to the mountains, I imagine a wonderful life there, it definitely lessons the pain of my sitch. Now I decided not to move north right now because it was just too soon (imagine coconut showing patience), but I do still need to move somewhere in the next 4 weeks. The best move for me would be to go to my cousins and stay in guest room, or moms. Neither is an option that excites me, but it would allow me to save significant money quick since I'll be debt free... My other option is to find a short term rental, which would be costly in my area, I don't want to sign a year lease.
On my WW side, she probably feels the FD will fulfill her, but I think the move is going to break her. I'm 70% packed, she hasn't packed a single thing and she's keeping almost everything in the house. I'm the planner, the doer of our family, and if I had to plan her move I would be stressed to the max. She wanted the master bedroom set, it's a king size bed, and very very big heavy furniture (the dresser probably weighs 500 pounds, and I don't think she even realizes that it's not going to fit in most bedrooms, but she wanted it so I gladly said ok.
Also, she needs to find someplace to move to, we won't have money until the house sells, and I had to tell her that she can't buy a house without my signature while we are M.. So I'm really not sure what she plans on doing, or how she's going to do it unless she gets the whole fire department to come pack her up and move her. I'm seriously thinking of borrowing money from mom to rent a two bedroom place so son has a place to go until she gets something, because I just don't know how it's possible for her. I've tried to bring up the subject twice, but just like everything else, she doesn't share info or ask me for advice, so I'm just going to stand back and watch the crash, and make sure my S is taken care of.
She's about to get very very hard with reality..
On my side, I relished moving to the mountains, I imagine a wonderful life there, it definitely lessons the pain of my sitch. Now I decided not to move north right now because it was just too soon (imagine coconut showing patience), but I do still need to move somewhere in the next 4 weeks. The best move for me would be to go to my cousins and stay in guest room, or moms. Neither is an option that excites me, but it would allow me to save significant money quick since I'll be debt free... My other option is to find a short term rental, which would be costly in my area, I don't want to sign a year lease.
On my WW side, she probably feels the FD will fulfill her, but I think the move is going to break her. I'm 70% packed, she hasn't packed a single thing and she's keeping almost everything in the house. I'm the planner, the doer of our family, and if I had to plan her move I would be stressed to the max. She wanted the master bedroom set, it's a king size bed, and very very big heavy furniture (the dresser probably weighs 500 pounds, and I don't think she even realizes that it's not going to fit in most bedrooms, but she wanted it so I gladly said ok.
Also, she needs to find someplace to move to, we won't have money until the house sells, and I had to tell her that she can't buy a house without my signature while we are M.. So I'm really not sure what she plans on doing, or how she's going to do it unless she gets the whole fire department to come pack her up and move her. I'm seriously thinking of borrowing money from mom to rent a two bedroom place so son has a place to go until she gets something, because I just don't know how it's possible for her. I've tried to bring up the subject twice, but just like everything else, she doesn't share info or ask me for advice, so I'm just going to stand back and watch the crash, and make sure my S is taken care of.
She's about to get very very hard with reality..
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/17/16 03:34 PM
Zeus, you are right.
I'm much better spoken in person than I am on the Internet. Most people are better versed through the Internet, I'm an anomaly
My point was not to mind read or to start trouble. Like I tell anyone, I just offer advice and perspective through experience.through experience.
I think you handled everything great. Nothing on you. Sometimes friends have good intentions and I think her BFF agrees you are an awesome guy. She wants to see you guys back together. She may or may not be saying things to make that happen. and when she handed that signed contract when you told her BFF she could come to you if she was serious, you may have felt inside " if she felt as her BFF said, she wouldn't have done that"
Just keep on your path and stick to what's right for you. It was just a " be careful" on what you and her BFF share. But I'm sure you've got yourself handled.
I'm much better spoken in person than I am on the Internet. Most people are better versed through the Internet, I'm an anomaly
My point was not to mind read or to start trouble. Like I tell anyone, I just offer advice and perspective through experience.through experience.
I think you handled everything great. Nothing on you. Sometimes friends have good intentions and I think her BFF agrees you are an awesome guy. She wants to see you guys back together. She may or may not be saying things to make that happen. and when she handed that signed contract when you told her BFF she could come to you if she was serious, you may have felt inside " if she felt as her BFF said, she wouldn't have done that"
Just keep on your path and stick to what's right for you. It was just a " be careful" on what you and her BFF share. But I'm sure you've got yourself handled.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/17/16 04:57 PM
You aren't wrong and you didn't start trouble G. I didn't see your post when I posted mine. I just think we are all trying to understand how this might have played out. Not to try to figure out WAW, but simply to help find peace and closure in what has happened.
You bring up a good point in how a WAS might react to her friends attempts at control. My point was only that it's not truly rock bottom until you see consistent changed action, not words of regret. All of which is designed to help Coco, who is clearly handling this like a DB champ.
You bring up a good point in how a WAS might react to her friends attempts at control. My point was only that it's not truly rock bottom until you see consistent changed action, not words of regret. All of which is designed to help Coco, who is clearly handling this like a DB champ.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/17/16 05:47 PM
Zues126 - what a profound last two posts, really good stuff.
C-nut - been reading your sitch a long time, just not always saying much. Not much to add, but you are ripped tough sir.
C-nut - been reading your sitch a long time, just not always saying much. Not much to add, but you are ripped tough sir.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/18/16 06:14 AM
Ginger, you posted a point of view that you thought I should consider, nothing wrong with that. I think it helps us consider something we may not have thought of.
CT, thanks for the support.. I'm not all that tough, just got my confidence and self worth back, it allows me to make decisions without fear of losing her, so it's a lot easier to do the right thing now.
I saw a meme on FB this morning, it said "Dirty Laundry goes here (pic of laundry basket), not here (FB emblem).. It got me thinking, so I posted the following and wanted to share...
I find it interesting how major events in life can alter views in so many areas. I guess it is just the fact that sometimes things change so much that you need to once again try and find yourself, and that can cause you to explore new avenues.
At the same time you analyze things, trying to determine how actions (your actions and those of others) effect your emotions, and from that begin to understand your true feelings.
I've never been a Facebook person, I've always preferred to live my life and share my thoughts with those I surround myself with. I would occasionally post big picture things that I had already shared or were known by those closest to me, but affected me in a bigger way so I wanted to share with a wider circle of friends or family. For example, when I bought my house, it was something that altered my life, it was something that I shared intimately with my inner circle in real life (IRL), but I also wanted to share it with my bigger circle that I don't get to see in person often. But when I updated the ceiling of the house from popcorn to knock down, I only shared it with my inner circle because it wasn't a big picture thing.
With that same concept, if I disagreed with someone about something (say an argument), it doesn't have much effect on my life (short term bump in road), if I shared it at all, it would only be with a very small part of my inner circle and would be done IRL, and I believe sharing with the bigger circle (FB) may actually make the bump in the road larger. So I think the sharing of negative information should be commensurate with the affect that it will have on my life (the big picture). I forgot to put the toilet seat down (share only with those involved), sprained an ankle (share with inner circle around IRL), lost my job (start with inner circle and work out to everyone).
I think it is the different with good news. I think positives in your life should be shared with all. Facebook allows us to keep connected with people we've known for almost all of our lives (I have several from high school 26 - 30 yrs ago) even though I may not have seen some of them in 20 years. But by us all sharing the positives on Facebook, I've been able to share in their successes, new cars they love, new relationships / spouses / children, new jobs, and it's great to see what is becoming of the kids I once new as they grew up. Just like sharing small disagreements can make the bump in the road bigger, I think sharing positives can make the appreciation more profound.
But even the positives can be over done. I think when positives start being posted just to receive likes, it can start to turn into narcissism. I want people to know the things that really mean something to me, I want their admiration to be for something that already has meaning to me. I don't want to appreciate something just because others admire it, if it doesn't start out positive in my heart I don't want it to become positive to me just because it gained your admiration.
This post has no real intention, I just saw this meme and it got me thinking... I've shared some stuff on Facebook recently because things in my life are changing, I try not to bash anyone, but it can be difficult to try and let people know what's going on or how your feeling without just coming out and saying it. To all my circle of friends, just know that if I put it on Facebook, it is something I'm willing to share (just maybe not detailed on FB), so you can always feel free to call, text or message me if you want more info or you just want to reach out in support or congratulation.
Wow this post got long, this is me jumping off soapbox..
CT, thanks for the support.. I'm not all that tough, just got my confidence and self worth back, it allows me to make decisions without fear of losing her, so it's a lot easier to do the right thing now.
I saw a meme on FB this morning, it said "Dirty Laundry goes here (pic of laundry basket), not here (FB emblem).. It got me thinking, so I posted the following and wanted to share...
I find it interesting how major events in life can alter views in so many areas. I guess it is just the fact that sometimes things change so much that you need to once again try and find yourself, and that can cause you to explore new avenues.
At the same time you analyze things, trying to determine how actions (your actions and those of others) effect your emotions, and from that begin to understand your true feelings.
I've never been a Facebook person, I've always preferred to live my life and share my thoughts with those I surround myself with. I would occasionally post big picture things that I had already shared or were known by those closest to me, but affected me in a bigger way so I wanted to share with a wider circle of friends or family. For example, when I bought my house, it was something that altered my life, it was something that I shared intimately with my inner circle in real life (IRL), but I also wanted to share it with my bigger circle that I don't get to see in person often. But when I updated the ceiling of the house from popcorn to knock down, I only shared it with my inner circle because it wasn't a big picture thing.
With that same concept, if I disagreed with someone about something (say an argument), it doesn't have much effect on my life (short term bump in road), if I shared it at all, it would only be with a very small part of my inner circle and would be done IRL, and I believe sharing with the bigger circle (FB) may actually make the bump in the road larger. So I think the sharing of negative information should be commensurate with the affect that it will have on my life (the big picture). I forgot to put the toilet seat down (share only with those involved), sprained an ankle (share with inner circle around IRL), lost my job (start with inner circle and work out to everyone).
I think it is the different with good news. I think positives in your life should be shared with all. Facebook allows us to keep connected with people we've known for almost all of our lives (I have several from high school 26 - 30 yrs ago) even though I may not have seen some of them in 20 years. But by us all sharing the positives on Facebook, I've been able to share in their successes, new cars they love, new relationships / spouses / children, new jobs, and it's great to see what is becoming of the kids I once new as they grew up. Just like sharing small disagreements can make the bump in the road bigger, I think sharing positives can make the appreciation more profound.
But even the positives can be over done. I think when positives start being posted just to receive likes, it can start to turn into narcissism. I want people to know the things that really mean something to me, I want their admiration to be for something that already has meaning to me. I don't want to appreciate something just because others admire it, if it doesn't start out positive in my heart I don't want it to become positive to me just because it gained your admiration.
This post has no real intention, I just saw this meme and it got me thinking... I've shared some stuff on Facebook recently because things in my life are changing, I try not to bash anyone, but it can be difficult to try and let people know what's going on or how your feeling without just coming out and saying it. To all my circle of friends, just know that if I put it on Facebook, it is something I'm willing to share (just maybe not detailed on FB), so you can always feel free to call, text or message me if you want more info or you just want to reach out in support or congratulation.
Wow this post got long, this is me jumping off soapbox..
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/18/16 09:47 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
CT, thanks for the support.. I'm not all that tough, just got my confidence and self worth back, it allows me to make decisions without fear of losing her, so it's a lot easier to do the right thing now.
That confidence and self worth removing fear and leading to a fresh perspective is precisely the tough I was referring to. Its been a long journey, and still longer yet, but you get it; to me, that's being tough.
I agree w/ your FB comments FWIW. Mine is pretty much just pictures of me doing awesome things with my son, or regular things...but all positive.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 04:32 AM
Something she said last week just keeps eating at me...
referring to her having to quit the FD in order for me to even consider working on M, she said that she "would need to give up pretty much everything"...
I just can't shake my disgust at that statement... She's throwing away our M of 8 years, known each other for 11, our dream house, all of my family who are disgusted with her, her 25 year friend, me not getting to live with my son, or my dogs... But having to walk away from FD which she's only been doing for 5 or 6 months would be walking away from pretty much everything...
I didn't even respond to the comment, but it occasionally runs through my head and really bugs me. I honestly don't know if I really want her to quit the fire department, because I really don't know if I have it in me to try and save my M to such a selfish person.
referring to her having to quit the FD in order for me to even consider working on M, she said that she "would need to give up pretty much everything"...
I just can't shake my disgust at that statement... She's throwing away our M of 8 years, known each other for 11, our dream house, all of my family who are disgusted with her, her 25 year friend, me not getting to live with my son, or my dogs... But having to walk away from FD which she's only been doing for 5 or 6 months would be walking away from pretty much everything...
I didn't even respond to the comment, but it occasionally runs through my head and really bugs me. I honestly don't know if I really want her to quit the fire department, because I really don't know if I have it in me to try and save my M to such a selfish person.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 04:49 AM
C-nut,
May I offer a slightly different Perspective?
I am reading that there is quite a bit that is eating at you....
You are contemplating on some very big life decisions....
You have been emotionally hurt by all that has transpired in you MR....
The anger and bitterness is eating at you....
Rumination is settling in as a habit....
Google emotional first aid...watch the Ted Talk...
Try a 180 with your thoughts....
Go back over your posts of the past several weeks and 180 what you have written.
There is always benefit in seeing and trying to feel what the other person is feeling and experiencing.
This is not to say you should put yourself in her shoes and agree with what she has done.
But reaching a point of truly understanding what she feels can aid you.
I share this perspective as it has helped me calm the storm of anger towards my STBXW and her decisions....
Please don't misunderstand me
I still have the angry thoughts and short debates with the voices in my head, but when I move into her perspective, I am starting to feel her pain....
And this grounds me....
This is the goal to understanding my emotions and how too respond, not react, to forgive, not forget, to find peace, so that I know my decisions come from a place that will not create regret.
Just my 2c...
You have endured much...
You are discovering your awareness of your emotions and feelings...you can do what is right for you and maintain the love you have for her and find peace with both.
May I offer a slightly different Perspective?
I am reading that there is quite a bit that is eating at you....
You are contemplating on some very big life decisions....
You have been emotionally hurt by all that has transpired in you MR....
The anger and bitterness is eating at you....
Rumination is settling in as a habit....
Google emotional first aid...watch the Ted Talk...
Try a 180 with your thoughts....
Go back over your posts of the past several weeks and 180 what you have written.
There is always benefit in seeing and trying to feel what the other person is feeling and experiencing.
This is not to say you should put yourself in her shoes and agree with what she has done.
But reaching a point of truly understanding what she feels can aid you.
I share this perspective as it has helped me calm the storm of anger towards my STBXW and her decisions....
Please don't misunderstand me
I still have the angry thoughts and short debates with the voices in my head, but when I move into her perspective, I am starting to feel her pain....
And this grounds me....
This is the goal to understanding my emotions and how too respond, not react, to forgive, not forget, to find peace, so that I know my decisions come from a place that will not create regret.
Just my 2c...
You have endured much...
You are discovering your awareness of your emotions and feelings...you can do what is right for you and maintain the love you have for her and find peace with both.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 07:05 AM
Het SH... Maybe eating at me is the incorrect phrase to use... Maybe I should say "telling of her mindset"... Or something..
I have no anger or resentment... I have been hurt by her, I found forgiveness for her, but I'm having a hard time finding love for her. It is instinctual for me to try and protect her, I have to fight myself to stand back and let her make her own decisions. I'm a planner and have a hard time that she's not making any decisions on where she's going or what she's going to do... Geesh, she still hasn't packed a single thing.. I hate having to build short term plans to house my stepson because I don't know if he's going to have anywhere to go.
I am really having a hard time figuring out how she feels or what she's going through.. To be honest, the way she's treating this, I don't even think it has really set in that she needs to move. The things I've heard from others I don't see, other than that one late night text about this being really hard for her, I haven't seen anything to indicate she is sad about losing me, although she did seem happy when she found out I turned down the out of state job. But I don't know if that was just for sons sake.
I have no anger or resentment... I have been hurt by her, I found forgiveness for her, but I'm having a hard time finding love for her. It is instinctual for me to try and protect her, I have to fight myself to stand back and let her make her own decisions. I'm a planner and have a hard time that she's not making any decisions on where she's going or what she's going to do... Geesh, she still hasn't packed a single thing.. I hate having to build short term plans to house my stepson because I don't know if he's going to have anywhere to go.
I am really having a hard time figuring out how she feels or what she's going through.. To be honest, the way she's treating this, I don't even think it has really set in that she needs to move. The things I've heard from others I don't see, other than that one late night text about this being really hard for her, I haven't seen anything to indicate she is sad about losing me, although she did seem happy when she found out I turned down the out of state job. But I don't know if that was just for sons sake.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 07:16 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
Het SH... Maybe eating at me is the incorrect phrase to use... Maybe I should say "telling of her mindset"... Or something..
I have no anger or resentment... I have been hurt by her, I found forgiveness for her, but I'm having a hard time finding love for her. It is instinctual for me to try and protect her, I have to fight myself to stand back and let her make her own decisions. I'm a planner and have a hard time that she's not making any decisions on where she's going or what she's going to do... Geesh, she still hasn't packed a single thing.. I hate having to build short term plans to house my stepson because I don't know if he's going to have anywhere to go.
I am really having a hard time figuring out how she feels or what she's going through.. To be honest, the way she's treating this, I don't even think it has really set in that she needs to move. The things I've heard from others I don't see, other than that one late night text about this being really hard for her, I haven't seen anything to indicate she is sad about losing me, although she did seem happy when she found out I turned down the out of state job. But I don't know if that was just for sons sake.
I have no anger or resentment... I have been hurt by her, I found forgiveness for her, but I'm having a hard time finding love for her. It is instinctual for me to try and protect her, I have to fight myself to stand back and let her make her own decisions. I'm a planner and have a hard time that she's not making any decisions on where she's going or what she's going to do... Geesh, she still hasn't packed a single thing.. I hate having to build short term plans to house my stepson because I don't know if he's going to have anywhere to go.
I am really having a hard time figuring out how she feels or what she's going through.. To be honest, the way she's treating this, I don't even think it has really set in that she needs to move. The things I've heard from others I don't see, other than that one late night text about this being really hard for her, I haven't seen anything to indicate she is sad about losing me, although she did seem happy when she found out I turned down the out of state job. But I don't know if that was just for sons sake.
You don't need to find love for her right now. Nor do you have to figure out what she is feeling or what she is going through. Just worry about what you are feeling and going through right now. If there really is no anger or resentment, or even this love you say you are having a hard time looking for, then let her do her thing, you do your own. Don't worry about her planning, don't protect her, let her do her things at her pace. If it effects your life, then speak up.
Did you maybe worry to much for her, plan and put pressure on her in the M when she was taking things at her pace, whatever it may be, and you tried to keep her up at your pace? Maybe now it's time to not do that anymore:)
I think you might want a tad bit of vindication. We all do. We want them to second think what they did, be remorseful, regretful, sad, even if we don't want them back. Our ego's are a bit bruised and we don't want to think our love was for naught. Which it wasn't, don't worry.
She may be doing what she needs to do without your help. She may have it all figured out. You don't know.
Take care of you now, and if your son is worried about having nowhere to go, I bet he will come to you. He probably would have by now.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 08:11 AM
Cnut
To clarify my thoughts on putting yourself in her shoes is not to understand what she feels per se, it is more to try and take her perspective.....
Perspective of you....
What can you see in you when you step out into her perspective....
True forgiveness can occur when we can see it from their point of view...
Again, we don t have to agree with it....
But if we can remove our perspective, ie your planning, your desire for her to feel a certain level of remorse, meeting your needs, then we can truely forgive.
And the forgiveness is for us, not her.
To sum up my babble here, a wise man on e said to me, "SH, honor their struggle."
In this simple wisdom, this is how we can take out all of the things you write about her in your story and set them aside, and know, she is in her own struggle and we can not know nor understand it, but we can honor that she must act and learn from it on her own.
Cnut I love to watch your progress as you have come a long ways and you have much more to go, I am cheering for you from the stands.
I hope that if nothing more the sincere support I send you can help.....
To clarify my thoughts on putting yourself in her shoes is not to understand what she feels per se, it is more to try and take her perspective.....
Perspective of you....
What can you see in you when you step out into her perspective....
True forgiveness can occur when we can see it from their point of view...
Again, we don t have to agree with it....
But if we can remove our perspective, ie your planning, your desire for her to feel a certain level of remorse, meeting your needs, then we can truely forgive.
And the forgiveness is for us, not her.
To sum up my babble here, a wise man on e said to me, "SH, honor their struggle."
In this simple wisdom, this is how we can take out all of the things you write about her in your story and set them aside, and know, she is in her own struggle and we can not know nor understand it, but we can honor that she must act and learn from it on her own.
Cnut I love to watch your progress as you have come a long ways and you have much more to go, I am cheering for you from the stands.
I hope that if nothing more the sincere support I send you can help.....
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/19/16 10:03 AM
Quote:
Me - But understand the guilt she feel right now is overbearing on her,
I have to ask, b/c I am always seeing LBH's referring to their WW's "guilt". Why do you think she feels any guilt? Have you seen signs from her that looked like she felt guilty? Remember, she is into self-justification, and that applies to her friends, family, etc. Anyone who doesn't support what she's doing, she'll just "unfriend" them.
Quote:
Sandi2 / Wonka,
If you see this, can you stop by lostaf's thread and make sure I'm on the right track with my advice?
If you see this, can you stop by lostaf's thread and make sure I'm on the right track with my advice?
Looks fine to me.
Quote:
So I'm really not sure what she plans on doing, or how she's going to do it unless she gets the whole fire department to come pack her up and move her. I'm seriously thinking of borrowing money from mom to rent a two bedroom place so son has a place to go until she gets something, because I just don't know how it's possible for her. I've tried to bring up the subject twice, but just like everything else, she doesn't share info or ask me for advice, so I'm just going to stand back and watch the crash, and make sure my S is taken care of.
Your W will find a way, and if she doesn't......that's great! Do not pay for her a place to stay, Coconut. She will never experience loss or consequences for her decisions if you are there to rescue her. I know......you are concerned about the son, but she had that boy before you were in the picture, and she will find a place for him to stay. In the meantime.....do not help her.
Do you remember me making a statement about how it's like she's having an EA with the FD? Not in the sense she might have with one man, but she gets a high from the FF/FD. When she chooses it over her marriage/family/home.......there must be a payoff coming from somewhere.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/20/16 05:36 AM
Sandi2,
As for telling BFF that WW guilt is overbearing for her, I think it was just an easy way to tell BFF to stop beating WW up over what she's done. I really believe that WW needs BFF to remind her of what her life used to be, and I don't want to see them stop talking. You think me and WW are hard headed, you should see those too interact. Anyway, I don't think she feels guilt for my sake, or for what she's done, but I think she feels guilty that it is causing son all these changes.
As for what she will do, I have zero plans on saving her, i'll watch her go homeless, or move in a friends house and have no where to put all her furniture, or whatever.. I have no plans on making it easier on her, and I have no plans on helping her pack or move (other than I am going to help son pack up some of his stuff since I'm almost done packing). My intention is only to make sure my son has somewhere to stay that will cause the least interruption possible to him, if she isn't able to give him someplace. I will not tell her that, I will just wait until move out day and bring him home with me if needed.
I rented an apartment that is at the entrance to my neighborhood, literally like 750 feet away from my house, so he would still take the same bus to school, still have access to his friends in the neighborhood, etc.. and just FYI, I rented there because I love the area I live in, I realize it is going to make me sad to drive there and not go home, but I can't tell you enough how great the area I live in is and I didn't want to leave it.
ok, so something that I've been thinking about this morning.. I've never felt like this, and I'm not sure what to make of it, not sure if it's detachment, or something unhealthy (I'm going to discuss with IC next apt). I literally have no sadness about losing WW, nothing, nada.
I find myself get sad when I think about:
- not living with son
- not living with dogs
- not getting to see the small palm trees I planted grow
- not being able to have family over to swim in the pool
- not being able to sit on my patio drinking coffee and reading paper
but when I think about not being with WW anymore, I feel zero, nothing, nada... I don't understand. I don't feel anger towards her, we actually chat about stuff now and I don't feel like I'm faking anything when I just chat, I don't get sentimental and have zero desire to bring stuff up. Other than enforcing my boundary about telling me about FF stuff (which doesn't even bother me anymore, but I still enforce my boundary), I don't feel like I have to make her understand anything, or feel sorry for anything, or anything at all.
Maybe it's just because I'm focused on logistics of my move, making sure I secure my apartment, figuring out when I want to move what in, planning my trip to the mountains with brother and mother (which by the way worked out to be the day after closing), but I just have zero desire to think about a future with her, and actually find it hard to do so. Maybe it's just today and yesterday, maybe it will change again, but it's how I feel.
I realized going to bed last night, that I no longer miss her, I no longer wish she was in my bed, and prefer it that way..
I'm just journaling, but it's incredible the difference I'm feeling now compared to 5 months ago when all of this started. I never thought I would amount to anything without her, I didn't know if I could even exist, and now I think that I am going to be better without her.
As for telling BFF that WW guilt is overbearing for her, I think it was just an easy way to tell BFF to stop beating WW up over what she's done. I really believe that WW needs BFF to remind her of what her life used to be, and I don't want to see them stop talking. You think me and WW are hard headed, you should see those too interact. Anyway, I don't think she feels guilt for my sake, or for what she's done, but I think she feels guilty that it is causing son all these changes.
As for what she will do, I have zero plans on saving her, i'll watch her go homeless, or move in a friends house and have no where to put all her furniture, or whatever.. I have no plans on making it easier on her, and I have no plans on helping her pack or move (other than I am going to help son pack up some of his stuff since I'm almost done packing). My intention is only to make sure my son has somewhere to stay that will cause the least interruption possible to him, if she isn't able to give him someplace. I will not tell her that, I will just wait until move out day and bring him home with me if needed.
I rented an apartment that is at the entrance to my neighborhood, literally like 750 feet away from my house, so he would still take the same bus to school, still have access to his friends in the neighborhood, etc.. and just FYI, I rented there because I love the area I live in, I realize it is going to make me sad to drive there and not go home, but I can't tell you enough how great the area I live in is and I didn't want to leave it.
ok, so something that I've been thinking about this morning.. I've never felt like this, and I'm not sure what to make of it, not sure if it's detachment, or something unhealthy (I'm going to discuss with IC next apt). I literally have no sadness about losing WW, nothing, nada.
I find myself get sad when I think about:
- not living with son
- not living with dogs
- not getting to see the small palm trees I planted grow
- not being able to have family over to swim in the pool
- not being able to sit on my patio drinking coffee and reading paper
but when I think about not being with WW anymore, I feel zero, nothing, nada... I don't understand. I don't feel anger towards her, we actually chat about stuff now and I don't feel like I'm faking anything when I just chat, I don't get sentimental and have zero desire to bring stuff up. Other than enforcing my boundary about telling me about FF stuff (which doesn't even bother me anymore, but I still enforce my boundary), I don't feel like I have to make her understand anything, or feel sorry for anything, or anything at all.
Maybe it's just because I'm focused on logistics of my move, making sure I secure my apartment, figuring out when I want to move what in, planning my trip to the mountains with brother and mother (which by the way worked out to be the day after closing), but I just have zero desire to think about a future with her, and actually find it hard to do so. Maybe it's just today and yesterday, maybe it will change again, but it's how I feel.
I realized going to bed last night, that I no longer miss her, I no longer wish she was in my bed, and prefer it that way..
I'm just journaling, but it's incredible the difference I'm feeling now compared to 5 months ago when all of this started. I never thought I would amount to anything without her, I didn't know if I could even exist, and now I think that I am going to be better without her.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/21/16 07:54 AM
Cnut,
I appreciate all of your help so far with my thread. I noticed in your previous thread that one of the areas you may be interested in is Greenville, SC. I am actually located in Greenville, SC and may be able to give you some tips/advice related to the area if it really comes to that. What line of work are you in?
I appreciate all of your help so far with my thread. I noticed in your previous thread that one of the areas you may be interested in is Greenville, SC. I am actually located in Greenville, SC and may be able to give you some tips/advice related to the area if it really comes to that. What line of work are you in?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/21/16 09:00 AM
Hey lost, I'd rather not discuss my line of work, but if I do find something up in Greenville I'll definitely look you up to get info on housing. Right now though, I'm finding a lot more positions available on TN side..
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/21/16 09:54 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
Hey lost, I'd rather not discuss my line of work, but if I do find something up in Greenville I'll definitely look you up to get info on housing. Right now though, I'm finding a lot more positions available on TN side..
Ok, My apologies for asking that, I can respect that. That's great though that you are finding some opportunities up there.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/21/16 10:30 AM
no worries, no harm in asking, I didn't take offense... I'm pretty open, just wanna keep some anonymity..
So the buyers (of our house) wanted to bring their parents by yesterday to look at the house, so we set the time of their visit the day before. I no longer take care of all the chores that I used to do around the house, so I've been cleaning all my dishes as soon as I'm done using them, and I have been doing the other dishes every other time (I used to always do the dishes). Anyway, my WW hasn't been doing anything around the house since we stopped showing the house, she's let the dishes pile up, it drives me crazy, but I just leave them.
So anyway, the people were coming by to look at the house 30 minutes after we get home from work, so I got home, changed and was heading out to meet some friends for dinner and drinks. On my way out, she was freaking out because the house had clutter everywhere (hers and my sons stuff) and dirty dishes all over the counter. I walked past her, told son that the people were coming over to look at the house for about 30 minutes, and I wasn't sure if his mom was taking him somewhere, but if not, he should just head out for a little while.
Then I said bye to WW and she made a comment, something similar to "Really nice of you to help me get everything straightened up" or something, I was walking out and couldn't really hear her. So I turned around and asked, I wasn't able to hear you, were you talking to me? She said never mind, and I said ok, then she made another off the hand comment about cleaning as I was walking out. Then son went to WW as I was leaving and asked if she was taking him somewhere, and she said no, I have a FF meeting but I have to hurry and get this stuff cleaned up. I just left.
Then I text her and said
"I didn't want to get into an argument about it, but I think it's important that it's understood, I'm not doing all of the dishes or cleaning all of the house. I clean my dishes after I use them and I do all the other dishes every other time, but since the last time I did them you haven't done any dishes so I had no intention of doing those.
She responded
"Yes, I did the dishes and cleaned the entire kitchen right before we did the viewing. Other than some coffee cups I haven't used really any dishes so the dishes are obviously sons. I didn't ask you to do all of them, but it would've been nice for you to at least start them and I would have finished them... it is what it is."
Now the old Coconut would of mentioned that she did the dishes and cleaned the kitchen 1 1/2 weeks ago, and did she really think the dishes only needed to get done every week or two. I would have also mentioned that she had 9 coffee cups (yes I counted them) in the sink, plus the plates she used for dinner the night before, plus any other dishes that she's used after I last did the dishes over a week ago... but nope, not the new me. I just left it at that and met up with my friends.
not my monkeys, not my circus.. She will realize how much housekeeping I've done over the last 8 years once she moves out. I'm a very clean person, her, not so much.
So the buyers (of our house) wanted to bring their parents by yesterday to look at the house, so we set the time of their visit the day before. I no longer take care of all the chores that I used to do around the house, so I've been cleaning all my dishes as soon as I'm done using them, and I have been doing the other dishes every other time (I used to always do the dishes). Anyway, my WW hasn't been doing anything around the house since we stopped showing the house, she's let the dishes pile up, it drives me crazy, but I just leave them.
So anyway, the people were coming by to look at the house 30 minutes after we get home from work, so I got home, changed and was heading out to meet some friends for dinner and drinks. On my way out, she was freaking out because the house had clutter everywhere (hers and my sons stuff) and dirty dishes all over the counter. I walked past her, told son that the people were coming over to look at the house for about 30 minutes, and I wasn't sure if his mom was taking him somewhere, but if not, he should just head out for a little while.
Then I said bye to WW and she made a comment, something similar to "Really nice of you to help me get everything straightened up" or something, I was walking out and couldn't really hear her. So I turned around and asked, I wasn't able to hear you, were you talking to me? She said never mind, and I said ok, then she made another off the hand comment about cleaning as I was walking out. Then son went to WW as I was leaving and asked if she was taking him somewhere, and she said no, I have a FF meeting but I have to hurry and get this stuff cleaned up. I just left.
Then I text her and said
"I didn't want to get into an argument about it, but I think it's important that it's understood, I'm not doing all of the dishes or cleaning all of the house. I clean my dishes after I use them and I do all the other dishes every other time, but since the last time I did them you haven't done any dishes so I had no intention of doing those.
She responded
"Yes, I did the dishes and cleaned the entire kitchen right before we did the viewing. Other than some coffee cups I haven't used really any dishes so the dishes are obviously sons. I didn't ask you to do all of them, but it would've been nice for you to at least start them and I would have finished them... it is what it is."
Now the old Coconut would of mentioned that she did the dishes and cleaned the kitchen 1 1/2 weeks ago, and did she really think the dishes only needed to get done every week or two. I would have also mentioned that she had 9 coffee cups (yes I counted them) in the sink, plus the plates she used for dinner the night before, plus any other dishes that she's used after I last did the dishes over a week ago... but nope, not the new me. I just left it at that and met up with my friends.
not my monkeys, not my circus.. She will realize how much housekeeping I've done over the last 8 years once she moves out. I'm a very clean person, her, not so much.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 06:36 AM
Just gotta shake my head, sometimes I wonder how my WW ever made it through life without me.. I'm a thinker, planner, take my time and do it right kinda guy... She's hectic, never allotting time needed to get stuff done, always running late or rushing to leave, stressful type life.
So I overslept today, I woke up when WW knocked lightly on my bedroom door to get something, I heard her slightly open the door and then close it (I'm assuming she saw me sleeping and thought it would be fun to let me continue oversleeping and really be late, she knocked at the time I usually leave the house). So anyway, she didn't know she woke me up, but after waking up for a few minutes I got up and started getting ready for work.
I got ready pretty quick and was ready to go was just waiting for my coffee to finish brewing, and my WW left with S to take him to school (I'm guessing he overslept too since I usually wake him). 5 minutes later, she texts me and says she made a wrong turn (they way she would go to work) and asked if I could call my mom, ask her to pick S up from office and take him to school... I was a bit dumbfounded.
I could of taken him to school, she was supposed to be taking him to school, but because she made a wrong turn, she expected me to ask mom to go to our work then take him to school (not very close)... Absolutely dumbfounded, so I just replied get off at next exit and take back way to school, she said too late, i'll just put him in break room and leave work to take him when I can. I didn't reply, not my monkeys...
So I walk by her office about an hour and half later, and she yells out to me that son is in break room, I said ok and kept walking.. She then say's loudly, nice talk. I went back, I said what do you want me to say, I saw your text and I know he is here, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say I'll leave and take him? she said "well one of us needs to, but I guess I will go take him", when she said that I simply replied "ok, sounds good" and walked away.
I didn't want to point out how completely ridiculous it was that she couldn't figure out how to get him to school and that he was even at the office, and because of that I completely refuse to clean up her mess, but I didn't want to just completely ignore her either...
I don't know, sometimes I feel like I am a little slow to gather my thoughts on how to respond, and after I walk away I always think of things I should have or wish I would've said.. I think it's the introvert in me. It's always easy for me to come up with a sarcastic response, but it takes me time to really think about a response that effectively addresses the issues.
So I overslept today, I woke up when WW knocked lightly on my bedroom door to get something, I heard her slightly open the door and then close it (I'm assuming she saw me sleeping and thought it would be fun to let me continue oversleeping and really be late, she knocked at the time I usually leave the house). So anyway, she didn't know she woke me up, but after waking up for a few minutes I got up and started getting ready for work.
I got ready pretty quick and was ready to go was just waiting for my coffee to finish brewing, and my WW left with S to take him to school (I'm guessing he overslept too since I usually wake him). 5 minutes later, she texts me and says she made a wrong turn (they way she would go to work) and asked if I could call my mom, ask her to pick S up from office and take him to school... I was a bit dumbfounded.
I could of taken him to school, she was supposed to be taking him to school, but because she made a wrong turn, she expected me to ask mom to go to our work then take him to school (not very close)... Absolutely dumbfounded, so I just replied get off at next exit and take back way to school, she said too late, i'll just put him in break room and leave work to take him when I can. I didn't reply, not my monkeys...
So I walk by her office about an hour and half later, and she yells out to me that son is in break room, I said ok and kept walking.. She then say's loudly, nice talk. I went back, I said what do you want me to say, I saw your text and I know he is here, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say I'll leave and take him? she said "well one of us needs to, but I guess I will go take him", when she said that I simply replied "ok, sounds good" and walked away.
I didn't want to point out how completely ridiculous it was that she couldn't figure out how to get him to school and that he was even at the office, and because of that I completely refuse to clean up her mess, but I didn't want to just completely ignore her either...
I don't know, sometimes I feel like I am a little slow to gather my thoughts on how to respond, and after I walk away I always think of things I should have or wish I would've said.. I think it's the introvert in me. It's always easy for me to come up with a sarcastic response, but it takes me time to really think about a response that effectively addresses the issues.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 07:36 AM
ok, I couldn't resist contacting her, so I sent this text:
As a husband and father, I took on the responsibility of doing whatever needed to be done to take care of my family. That would include take care of housework so my family could enjoy activities outside of the house, take care of appointments to buy and sell our houses, do all the shopping and as much cooking as needed, and anything else needed regardless of why it was needed.
But I am no longer the man of the house, I'm a temporary roommate, i'll take on a fair share of responsibility, i'll do my part, but I am no longer willing to fix things for you. The reason I'm sending you this text is because I believe your actions are making son resent me, thinking that I'm being mean to his mother. This morning, I could have taken him to school, but you chose to, and I wasn't going to call my mom and ask her to go all the way to work because you made a wrong turn and couldn't figure out how to get him to school. I'm not trying to be mean, I don't hate you, but I no longer feel like I need to be there at your beck and call..
But your reactions like I'm not doing something I should be doing has got to be very obvious to him. I don't want to have this conversation with him because it's not his problem, I would do anything for him without question, but I don't want to involve him in our relationship, and I believe that leaves me vulnerable to him getting negative feelings for me."
As a husband and father, I took on the responsibility of doing whatever needed to be done to take care of my family. That would include take care of housework so my family could enjoy activities outside of the house, take care of appointments to buy and sell our houses, do all the shopping and as much cooking as needed, and anything else needed regardless of why it was needed.
But I am no longer the man of the house, I'm a temporary roommate, i'll take on a fair share of responsibility, i'll do my part, but I am no longer willing to fix things for you. The reason I'm sending you this text is because I believe your actions are making son resent me, thinking that I'm being mean to his mother. This morning, I could have taken him to school, but you chose to, and I wasn't going to call my mom and ask her to go all the way to work because you made a wrong turn and couldn't figure out how to get him to school. I'm not trying to be mean, I don't hate you, but I no longer feel like I need to be there at your beck and call..
But your reactions like I'm not doing something I should be doing has got to be very obvious to him. I don't want to have this conversation with him because it's not his problem, I would do anything for him without question, but I don't want to involve him in our relationship, and I believe that leaves me vulnerable to him getting negative feelings for me."
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 07:56 AM
Silence and smiles are two powerful tools. Smile is the way to solve many problems and silence is the way to avoid many problems. -unknown
"There are times when silence is the best way to yell at the top of your voice."
"Silence is the best way to answer a fool"
"Silence is sometimes the best answer."
"Work hard in silence. Let success be your noise."
"The wiser a man is, the less talkative will he be."
"Silence is the source of great strength."
"Much talking is the cause of danger. Silence is the means of avoiding misfortune. The talkative parrot is shut up in a cage. Other birds, without speech, fly freely about." -Saskya Pandita
Cnut- It is time for you to fly freely outside of the cage.....
Your words have no meaning for her.....
Why continue to waste them.....?
"There are times when silence is the best way to yell at the top of your voice."
"Silence is the best way to answer a fool"
"Silence is sometimes the best answer."
"Work hard in silence. Let success be your noise."
"The wiser a man is, the less talkative will he be."
"Silence is the source of great strength."
"Much talking is the cause of danger. Silence is the means of avoiding misfortune. The talkative parrot is shut up in a cage. Other birds, without speech, fly freely about." -Saskya Pandita
Cnut- It is time for you to fly freely outside of the cage.....
Your words have no meaning for her.....
Why continue to waste them.....?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 08:04 AM
Quote:
ok, I couldn't resist contacting her, so I sent this text:
Cnut,
Do you recall the DB principle about cheeseless tunnels?
Might I encourage you to go ahead and break up your campsite in this one.....
There is no cheese here....
Also might I suggest that you discontinue use of text as a means to simply get things off of your chest to her....
I know that you understand my point here.
Be well today my friend and remember, are you reacting or responding?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 08:48 AM
Dance like no one is watching... E-mail and text like you may have to defend it in court someday...
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 10:45 AM
I am with you, on this one, Coconut. I realize there is a time to be silent........however, when dealing with a WW, there are times you need to tell her the straight of it. Silence is often seen as agreement or approval. To a WW, it often means cowardness. It goes back to the disrespect and whether you choose to ignore it or address it.....and choosing your battles wisely. She is making snide remarks and insinuations....and possibly influencing your son. This also follows the day she expected you to jump in and clean up her mess, when the new owners were coming...... (and you chose to ignore that one).
May I remind everyone that this is not a WAW, nor a W in MLC.......she is wayward. Sorry, but to constantly remain silent as she continues to pick & poke at you (still showing her disrespectful attitude)....all b/c she is spoiled with you (and apparently others) jumping in and catering to her.........
Wheeeee.......well, I know I feel better now.
May I remind everyone that this is not a WAW, nor a W in MLC.......she is wayward. Sorry, but to constantly remain silent as she continues to pick & poke at you (still showing her disrespectful attitude)....all b/c she is spoiled with you (and apparently others) jumping in and catering to her.........
Wheeeee.......well, I know I feel better now.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 10:53 AM
and just to close the loop, here is her response:
I didn't say anything to son about you not helping me out. I didn't ask you to take him this morning because you start work earlier than I do & figured you were already going to be late. I have never said anything to Austin about you no helping out or anything at all that would make him resent you. To the contrary, I only say nice things about you because I very much want to preserve your father/son relationsip.
The only reason I asked for your help is because you are his dad. I wasn't asking for me & I didn't say a word to son about you not being able to or unwilling to take him. I screwed up this morning & I admit that. I took care of it. But I'm offended that you think that I would ever say anything bad to son. I have not and will not.
<<end>>
Cheeseless tunnels... no where did I say or imply that she said anything to him, only that he can see her crappy attitude when she has to take care of something. oh well, que cera cera...
on a brighter note, I wasn't able to get the apt. right outside my neighborhood (they weren't able to give a 7 month lease) so I went to another place 5 minutes away, it's got a great gym, and lots of places to have guests over and barbecue, pool, volleyball, etc.. it's a real nice place and is only $1,200 a month, which is unbelievably cheap for the area... I get the apt on 10/01/16, so I may just move in that weekend and get away from the disaster that is going to be her trying to move out by the 13th.
I didn't say anything to son about you not helping me out. I didn't ask you to take him this morning because you start work earlier than I do & figured you were already going to be late. I have never said anything to Austin about you no helping out or anything at all that would make him resent you. To the contrary, I only say nice things about you because I very much want to preserve your father/son relationsip.
The only reason I asked for your help is because you are his dad. I wasn't asking for me & I didn't say a word to son about you not being able to or unwilling to take him. I screwed up this morning & I admit that. I took care of it. But I'm offended that you think that I would ever say anything bad to son. I have not and will not.
<<end>>
Cheeseless tunnels... no where did I say or imply that she said anything to him, only that he can see her crappy attitude when she has to take care of something. oh well, que cera cera...
on a brighter note, I wasn't able to get the apt. right outside my neighborhood (they weren't able to give a 7 month lease) so I went to another place 5 minutes away, it's got a great gym, and lots of places to have guests over and barbecue, pool, volleyball, etc.. it's a real nice place and is only $1,200 a month, which is unbelievably cheap for the area... I get the apt on 10/01/16, so I may just move in that weekend and get away from the disaster that is going to be her trying to move out by the 13th.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 11:14 AM
Wonka / Sandi2 / any other vets...
Would you mind stopping by lostasf's thread and provide advice on setting or enforcing a boundary regarding his WW texting OM in their marital bed.. I put a summary of what's been said at the beginning of his new thread.
Would you mind stopping by lostasf's thread and provide advice on setting or enforcing a boundary regarding his WW texting OM in their marital bed.. I put a summary of what's been said at the beginning of his new thread.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 11:32 AM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I am with you, on this one, Coconut. I realize there is a time to be silent........however, when dealing with a WW, there are times you need to tell her the straight of it. Silence is often seen as agreement or approval. To a WW, it often means cowardness. It goes back to the disrespect and whether you choose to ignore it or address it.....and choosing your battles wisely. She is making snide remarks and insinuations....and possibly influencing your son. This also follows the day she expected you to jump in and clean up her mess, when the new owners were coming...... (and you chose to ignore that one).
May I remind everyone that this is not a WAW, nor a W in MLC.......she is wayward. Sorry, but to constantly remain silent as she continues to pick & poke at you (still showing her disrespectful attitude)....all b/c she is spoiled with you (and apparently others) jumping in and catering to her.........
Wheeeee.......well, I know I feel better now.
May I remind everyone that this is not a WAW, nor a W in MLC.......she is wayward. Sorry, but to constantly remain silent as she continues to pick & poke at you (still showing her disrespectful attitude)....all b/c she is spoiled with you (and apparently others) jumping in and catering to her.........
Wheeeee.......well, I know I feel better now.
I have learned a new perspective here from you sandi.
I apologize cnut for my misinformed advice.
I have not experienced your challenges, but I do learn from it as I have followed along since you arrived,
I thank both you and sandi for sharing.
My life long friend is 2 years into a WW sitch.
My friend argues with his WW about these types of things constantly and it just appears cheeseless to me, because they continue the same back and forth never making any ground....
She does not appear to have made much ground in being respected, and he has reached a point of calling out what I perceive to be petty things about her......
So please share with me, is text a good medium to communicate when setting the lines of respect?
When does the LBS know that he has laid down the lines for respect?
How does the lbs know when to make the point and when to back off?
Any thoughts that you cnut and sandi can share will help me as I am the only one he talks to about his sitch.
I am working on getting him through the DB book and into the forum, but meanwhile I want to give him valuable thoughts and wisdom.
He wants to save the MR, but he is slipping into the WAH mode, she has stuck around for 2 years....
Anyway if you have some thoughts, cool, but I don't want to take away from what you going through cnut, nor share thoughts of mine that are off track...
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 12:29 PM
SH, no worries.. your opinion was valid, as it was your opinion and you explained why you felt that way. I may have said more than I should have in my texts, so that may have muddied the waters.
I'll give a little more information as to why I did it by text. The first time she gave me snide remarks, my son was in his room about 20 feet from us, and the second time we were at work. Neither situation was one that I wanted to confront her face to face and create a scene. But I felt that it was important both times to know the reason that my actions were what they were, I want her to recognize that I am standing up for what I feel is fair and justified, and I don't want her to think I'm doing it because I'm upset or just want to be mean..
In either case, if we were alone I would have addressed my concerns face to face, but text was the best option I had in those situations. Prior to texting, my interactions with her in both instances, I stood firm, I did not mumble or cower, I said as much as I could without causing a scene and then walked away and ended the conversation. My text was just to make sure she knew the meaning of my actions (or in these cases, my inactions).
I'll give a little more information as to why I did it by text. The first time she gave me snide remarks, my son was in his room about 20 feet from us, and the second time we were at work. Neither situation was one that I wanted to confront her face to face and create a scene. But I felt that it was important both times to know the reason that my actions were what they were, I want her to recognize that I am standing up for what I feel is fair and justified, and I don't want her to think I'm doing it because I'm upset or just want to be mean..
In either case, if we were alone I would have addressed my concerns face to face, but text was the best option I had in those situations. Prior to texting, my interactions with her in both instances, I stood firm, I did not mumble or cower, I said as much as I could without causing a scene and then walked away and ended the conversation. My text was just to make sure she knew the meaning of my actions (or in these cases, my inactions).
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 12:35 PM
Also, as far as bickering back and forth, I don't do that with her, these two instances just happened to be back to back days.
In the instance of the dishes, they've been piling up for over a week, every day I see them and it bugs me.. But I don't go address it with her every day it bugs me, I simply do not do them for her. I would have never addressed it with her (or done them) had she not made comments to me under her breath. For me, the line was crossed when she tried to, in her own way, reprimand me for not helping with the dishes or straighten up the house.
So my suggestion to your friend would be not to argue with his WW constantly. He should identify the real issues, what really bothers him, and only address those big picture things.
For instance, my WW still never goes grocery shopping, but I'm not going to just stand by and watch my son go hungry because there's no food, so I go grocery shopping. But when I go, I only get the things him and I like, I don't buy the things for her that I used to. I don't harp on her about not going shopping, she just goes without the stuff she likes unless she goes.
In the instance of the dishes, they've been piling up for over a week, every day I see them and it bugs me.. But I don't go address it with her every day it bugs me, I simply do not do them for her. I would have never addressed it with her (or done them) had she not made comments to me under her breath. For me, the line was crossed when she tried to, in her own way, reprimand me for not helping with the dishes or straighten up the house.
So my suggestion to your friend would be not to argue with his WW constantly. He should identify the real issues, what really bothers him, and only address those big picture things.
For instance, my WW still never goes grocery shopping, but I'm not going to just stand by and watch my son go hungry because there's no food, so I go grocery shopping. But when I go, I only get the things him and I like, I don't buy the things for her that I used to. I don't harp on her about not going shopping, she just goes without the stuff she likes unless she goes.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 12:57 PM
Really, your WW never goes grocery shopping! I thought everyone did a bit if grocery shopping! Do you think she did all these things before she married you and then you unconsciously allowed her to get away with not doing them because you are too efficient at running the household?
So many new experience for her when she has to live on her own....
So many new experience for her when she has to live on her own....
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 01:08 PM
Originally Posted By: Coly23
Really, your WW never goes grocery shopping! I thought everyone did a bit if grocery shopping! Do you think she did all these things before she married you and then you unconsciously allowed her to get away with not doing them because you are too efficient at running the household?
So many new experience for her when she has to live on her own....
So many new experience for her when she has to live on her own....
Yeah, one of my faults was taking on too much of the responsibility... I didn't mind doing it, in fact I kind of enjoyed it, but it took that away from her... Oh well, live and learn.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/22/16 07:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
SH, no worries.. your opinion was valid, as it was your opinion and you explained why you felt that way. I may have said more than I should have in my texts, so that may have muddied the waters.
I'll give a little more information as to why I did it by text. The first time she gave me snide remarks, my son was in his room about 20 feet from us, and the second time we were at work. Neither situation was one that I wanted to confront her face to face and create a scene. But I felt that it was important both times to know the reason that my actions were what they were, I want her to recognize that I am standing up for what I feel is fair and justified, and I don't want her to think I'm doing it because I'm upset or just want to be mean..
In either case, if we were alone I would have addressed my concerns face to face, but text was the best option I had in those situations. Prior to texting, my interactions with her in both instances, I stood firm, I did not mumble or cower, I said as much as I could without causing a scene and then walked away and ended the conversation. My text was just to make sure she knew the meaning of my actions (or in these cases, my inactions).
I'll give a little more information as to why I did it by text. The first time she gave me snide remarks, my son was in his room about 20 feet from us, and the second time we were at work. Neither situation was one that I wanted to confront her face to face and create a scene. But I felt that it was important both times to know the reason that my actions were what they were, I want her to recognize that I am standing up for what I feel is fair and justified, and I don't want her to think I'm doing it because I'm upset or just want to be mean..
In either case, if we were alone I would have addressed my concerns face to face, but text was the best option I had in those situations. Prior to texting, my interactions with her in both instances, I stood firm, I did not mumble or cower, I said as much as I could without causing a scene and then walked away and ended the conversation. My text was just to make sure she knew the meaning of my actions (or in these cases, my inactions).
Originally Posted By: Coconut
Also, as far as bickering back and forth, I don't do that with her, these two instances just happened to be back to back days.
In the instance of the dishes, they've been piling up for over a week, every day I see them and it bugs me.. But I don't go address it with her every day it bugs me, I simply do not do them for her. I would have never addressed it with her (or done them) had she not made comments to me under her breath. For me, the line was crossed when she tried to, in her own way, reprimand me for not helping with the dishes or straighten up the house.
So my suggestion to your friend would be not to argue with his WW constantly. He should identify the real issues, what really bothers him, and only address those big picture things.
For instance, my WW still never goes grocery shopping, but I'm not going to just stand by and watch my son go hungry because there's no food, so I go grocery shopping. But when I go, I only get the things him and I like, I don't buy the things for her that I used to. I don't harp on her about not going shopping, she just goes without the stuff she likes unless she goes.
In the instance of the dishes, they've been piling up for over a week, every day I see them and it bugs me.. But I don't go address it with her every day it bugs me, I simply do not do them for her. I would have never addressed it with her (or done them) had she not made comments to me under her breath. For me, the line was crossed when she tried to, in her own way, reprimand me for not helping with the dishes or straighten up the house.
So my suggestion to your friend would be not to argue with his WW constantly. He should identify the real issues, what really bothers him, and only address those big picture things.
For instance, my WW still never goes grocery shopping, but I'm not going to just stand by and watch my son go hungry because there's no food, so I go grocery shopping. But when I go, I only get the things him and I like, I don't buy the things for her that I used to. I don't harp on her about not going shopping, she just goes without the stuff she likes unless she goes.
Thank you Cnut.
Your insight will be valuable as I can share with my friend and provide support and hopefully help influence him to break the stalemate that is his R.
It really makes sense as you and sandi explain it.
Your reasons behind the texts also make sense.
Have a good evening.
I may bug you some more until I can get him in here to get this stuff straight from the horses mouth.....
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/23/16 05:54 AM
No apologies necessary. We all learn from each other. I only wanted to clarify something, and will use a quote from your post.
.
Here's the points to remember: Do not argue with her! Do not get into "explaining", or getting too detailed. It is the H bringing the spotlight on her disrespectful attitude (or tone of voice, behavior, or whatever). He needs to limit his remarks to one time. If she responds and he responds to her response.........it goes too far and he gets into "explaining". He is not giving a sermon, he's making a statement (or very few statements) and then moving on. He doesn't allow an argument. It takes two people to argue.
I think it would be very easy to fall into that situation of calling out to the point of pettiness. B/c it is difficult for some LBH'S to know how to balance, choose his battles, or pick his hill to die on. If his W has always been disrespectful in their M, she may have to learn a new behavior. I would suggest he start with her showing respect to him in front of his children, and then others. Start with the biggest offenses, and when those have ended or been corrected, then he can approach the lesser ones.
Quote:
My friend argues with his WW about these types of things constantly and it just appears cheeseless to me, because they continue the same back and forth never making any ground...
Here's the points to remember: Do not argue with her! Do not get into "explaining", or getting too detailed. It is the H bringing the spotlight on her disrespectful attitude (or tone of voice, behavior, or whatever). He needs to limit his remarks to one time. If she responds and he responds to her response.........it goes too far and he gets into "explaining". He is not giving a sermon, he's making a statement (or very few statements) and then moving on. He doesn't allow an argument. It takes two people to argue.
I think it would be very easy to fall into that situation of calling out to the point of pettiness. B/c it is difficult for some LBH'S to know how to balance, choose his battles, or pick his hill to die on. If his W has always been disrespectful in their M, she may have to learn a new behavior. I would suggest he start with her showing respect to him in front of his children, and then others. Start with the biggest offenses, and when those have ended or been corrected, then he can approach the lesser ones.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/23/16 08:16 AM
By limiting his marks to one time, I mean no back & forth.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/23/16 09:12 AM
C-nut
I have read through most of your Sitch and can understand a lot of your feelings. I have a slightly different situation, in that I neglected my M and W. I have come to the conclusion that I bear a lot of the responsibility in my situation; don't get me wrong she has some too.
But on the fantasy aspect of your W with the FF and her A, I get it. My wife is also having an EA and I now think PA and it makes me so mad. I do want to go hurt this guy and the anger is unbearable, but I won't as I cannot be responsible for him or his family.
I don't know what else to say or have much other advise other then to say I get where you are at and where you are coming from. I just want to say I support you and your decisions.
I will keep following and chime in when I can.
I have read through most of your Sitch and can understand a lot of your feelings. I have a slightly different situation, in that I neglected my M and W. I have come to the conclusion that I bear a lot of the responsibility in my situation; don't get me wrong she has some too.
But on the fantasy aspect of your W with the FF and her A, I get it. My wife is also having an EA and I now think PA and it makes me so mad. I do want to go hurt this guy and the anger is unbearable, but I won't as I cannot be responsible for him or his family.
I don't know what else to say or have much other advise other then to say I get where you are at and where you are coming from. I just want to say I support you and your decisions.
I will keep following and chime in when I can.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/24/16 04:31 PM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
No apologies necessary. We all learn from each other. I only wanted to clarify something, and will use a quote from your post.
.
Here's the points to remember: Do not argue with her! Do not get into "explaining", or getting too detailed. It is the H bringing the spotlight on her disrespectful attitude (or tone of voice, behavior, or whatever). He needs to limit his remarks to one time. If she responds and he responds to her response.........it goes too far and he gets into "explaining". He is not giving a sermon, he's making a statement (or very few statements) and then moving on. He doesn't allow an argument. It takes two people to argue.
I think it would be very easy to fall into that situation of calling out to the point of pettiness. B/c it is difficult for some LBH'S to know how to balance, choose his battles, or pick his hill to die on. If his W has always been disrespectful in their M, she may have to learn a new behavior. I would suggest he start with her showing respect to him in front of his children, and then others. Start with the biggest offenses, and when those have ended or been corrected, then he can approach the lesser ones.
By limiting his marks to one time, I mean no back & forth.
Quote:
My friend argues with his WW about these types of things constantly and it just appears cheeseless to me, because they continue the same back and forth never making any ground...
Here's the points to remember: Do not argue with her! Do not get into "explaining", or getting too detailed. It is the H bringing the spotlight on her disrespectful attitude (or tone of voice, behavior, or whatever). He needs to limit his remarks to one time. If she responds and he responds to her response.........it goes too far and he gets into "explaining". He is not giving a sermon, he's making a statement (or very few statements) and then moving on. He doesn't allow an argument. It takes two people to argue.
I think it would be very easy to fall into that situation of calling out to the point of pettiness. B/c it is difficult for some LBH'S to know how to balance, choose his battles, or pick his hill to die on. If his W has always been disrespectful in their M, she may have to learn a new behavior. I would suggest he start with her showing respect to him in front of his children, and then others. Start with the biggest offenses, and when those have ended or been corrected, then he can approach the lesser ones.
By limiting his marks to one time, I mean no back & forth.
Thank you sandi!!
This is very helpful and something I feel confident that i can share with my friend and he can understand it.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/26/16 05:22 AM
So not much going on with WW, we continue to casually converse when in the same room together, but for the most part we only see each other in passing. I'm all set with my apartment, I take possession on Saturday (10/01), and I'm thinking I may move in that weekend.
I can feel a new wave coming on, I had a great weekend and am doing well, but I can feel a wave of sadness coming down on me. Each step forward seems to bring a new wave. Some, like finding an apt. I like / the thought of moving to the country / etc, bring me up and a wave of excitement comes on. But other times I feel like I'm going down the wave, like when I take the next step in selling, when I move closer to not living with son, etc, and it brings a wave of sadness.
I will say the waves are smaller, neither wave up or down brings me to extremes, I don't remember the last time I had a cry, so I would consider it healthy feelings.
That's really it, no real updates, just journaling and letting everyone know I'm doing ok.
RSG, if you stop by, I have been worried about you bud, I wish you'd just stop in and let us know you haven't done something stupid and your ok.
I can feel a new wave coming on, I had a great weekend and am doing well, but I can feel a wave of sadness coming down on me. Each step forward seems to bring a new wave. Some, like finding an apt. I like / the thought of moving to the country / etc, bring me up and a wave of excitement comes on. But other times I feel like I'm going down the wave, like when I take the next step in selling, when I move closer to not living with son, etc, and it brings a wave of sadness.
I will say the waves are smaller, neither wave up or down brings me to extremes, I don't remember the last time I had a cry, so I would consider it healthy feelings.
That's really it, no real updates, just journaling and letting everyone know I'm doing ok.
RSG, if you stop by, I have been worried about you bud, I wish you'd just stop in and let us know you haven't done something stupid and your ok.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/26/16 10:55 AM
with the sadness comes a desire to communicate with her.. Since we work together, we used to always IM each other on the office communicator, and I keep having to stop myself from IM'ng her today 
Also, find my mind wandering, should I hug her on my way out the house when I move my stuff, it's been over two months since we've talked, much less touched, but I find myself wanting to know I have one last hug coming...
grrr, when does the next wave up come?
Also, find my mind wandering, should I hug her on my way out the house when I move my stuff, it's been over two months since we've talked, much less touched, but I find myself wanting to know I have one last hug coming...
grrr, when does the next wave up come?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/26/16 11:16 AM
Brother....
I have nothing to say, except I understand the emotions that you are expressing here.....
We know the days will get better.
Stop and breath and feel the emotions........
A virtual man hug for you my friend.
(((Coconut)))
I have nothing to say, except I understand the emotions that you are expressing here.....
We know the days will get better.
Stop and breath and feel the emotions........
A virtual man hug for you my friend.
(((Coconut)))
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/26/16 11:46 AM
I hate the waves of emotions!!!! I had been doing good until last week...ugh...sadness...I am better today but I wish the ups and downs would be done! I know it will get better in time...it seems like forever already....to be honest I gave my W a last hug when she got the rest of her stuff...prolly wasn't good DBing but 10 years in I didn't care at that moment.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/27/16 05:26 AM
I'm starting to get a bit concerned. We are now 15 days from closing on the house, and my WW has not packed a single thing, and as far as I can tell hasn't secured any where to go. I don't care about her not having someplace to go, that's on her, but I don't want her to not get her stuff out of the house and prevent the closing from taking place.
I'm not sure how to address this, because on one hand I want her to make her own decisions and thus, her own successes or failures. But on the other hand, it's really going to affect me if the house is not ready for the closing.
Should I press her to make sure she is going to be out of the house in time, or should I just plan on having 40 friends on call to come to the house the day before closing and move everything to storage if she's not out?
I'm not sure how to address this, because on one hand I want her to make her own decisions and thus, her own successes or failures. But on the other hand, it's really going to affect me if the house is not ready for the closing.
Should I press her to make sure she is going to be out of the house in time, or should I just plan on having 40 friends on call to come to the house the day before closing and move everything to storage if she's not out?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/27/16 05:45 AM
What would you do if it was a sibling or close friend?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/27/16 05:55 AM
Hey Coconut. Just came across your thread today and saw your post above. I was in a similar situation a few months ago. My H moved to an apartment with just the bare minimum of clothes, furniture, pots and pans, etc. All else was left in our home. In a fit of anger and loneliness around our anniversary (after he filed), I started gathering up his stuff. I put it in our guest room where it stayed. I kept bringing it up and asking him to remove it as we were trying to sell the house. I even packed everything else up in the house...and still it sat. I finally realized I was trying to control his actions and it wasn't my problem. It was his stuff, it was important to him, so therefore his responsibility. He eventually got it out because of this. I realized that if he didn't, the new owner's could do what they wanted with it (or contact him through the real estate agent). Not my problem to fix.
Let her know its there, I guess offer to help move it if you want, but then let it go. Her stuff, her problem. Explain it to your agent. Your agent can be the one to pressure her if needed; not you. And then let go. Maybe she's making plans to move it and find a place. Maybe not. Maybe she's in denial. But believe it or not, this isn't your sitch to control. Use your agent and leave it. Just get your stuff together.
Sometimes you just have to let go of a situation. All else...not your circus; not your monkeys.
Let her know its there, I guess offer to help move it if you want, but then let it go. Her stuff, her problem. Explain it to your agent. Your agent can be the one to pressure her if needed; not you. And then let go. Maybe she's making plans to move it and find a place. Maybe not. Maybe she's in denial. But believe it or not, this isn't your sitch to control. Use your agent and leave it. Just get your stuff together.
Sometimes you just have to let go of a situation. All else...not your circus; not your monkeys.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/27/16 06:39 AM
IMO, she's doing exactly the same as she was when the new buyers were coming to see the house. She expected you to jump in and do the work for her. I think you are having a problem b/c you have always taken care of her share.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 09/28/16 07:14 AM
grrr... this f'n woman drives me insane. So she texts me this morning and says that she needs to back the closing date up a day because she will be going out of town for a firefighter honor guard activity.
now, this is the day that we will be closing on the house, so essentially, the first day that she will be a single mom. So I ask about what son is going to do, and she says what do you mean. LOL, who is this person. So then she decides to ask if he can stay with me, I tell her he can stay with me on Wednesday, but not Thursday (the day closing is scheduled) because I won't be around on Friday.
She says, ok, I'll figure it out. I made a comment about nothing else matters.
She responds and says she was going to ask me if I could keep him with me, but she's busy the day of the closing so what's the big deal.
I didn't bite my lip and said who cares that its the day of the closing, leaving son home alone, oh well... Fire Dept. is all that matters...
and then ended the conversation by telling her I didn't want to talk about this.
now, this is the day that we will be closing on the house, so essentially, the first day that she will be a single mom. So I ask about what son is going to do, and she says what do you mean. LOL, who is this person. So then she decides to ask if he can stay with me, I tell her he can stay with me on Wednesday, but not Thursday (the day closing is scheduled) because I won't be around on Friday.
She says, ok, I'll figure it out. I made a comment about nothing else matters.
She responds and says she was going to ask me if I could keep him with me, but she's busy the day of the closing so what's the big deal.
I didn't bite my lip and said who cares that its the day of the closing, leaving son home alone, oh well... Fire Dept. is all that matters...
and then ended the conversation by telling her I didn't want to talk about this.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/03/16 07:48 AM
Spent the weekend moving into my new place. I asked W to move into the MBR Friday night so I wouldn't need to worry about her sleeping in the guest room when I needed to get in there to move the bed. I slept on the couch Friday, I didn't want to sleep in the guest bedroom my last night in that house.
Moved all the furniture into the new place on Saturday, and stayed there Sat. night. I slept on the couch in the new place on Sat and Sun night, I'm not sure why, but I didn't want to get into the bed in my new place. I feel like it's symbolic somehow, but I can't seem to figure out why I just didn't want to get in bed.
I'm doing well, no weighed down in sadness, but there definitely is a sort of numbness there, I feel like I've checked into a hotel but I know this is going to be a long stay. I'm still making a bunch of trips back to the house picking stuff up, had dinner with Son last night, so still a little bit of normalcy by going to the house. I am just going to need some time to get used to my new place being home.
Not much going on between me and WW, other than saying hi in passing a few times, I haven't seen her much. She was watching TV when all my family came over to help me move, but only one person said hi to her and gave her a hug, everyone else just kinda of went about the business of moving stuff, it was a bit awkward, so she just went in her room and didn't see her again while we were moving.
Then on Sunday, she text'd me and said she had someone who wanted to buy the hottub and trampoline, but she didn't know how to drain the hottub and was asking me for help. I didn't respond to the text, but when I got to the house, I started draining the hut tub, and put the instructions on the patio table as well as the tool needed to disassemble the trampoline (which was in my tool box). I simply told her I put them on the table because I had no intention of doing anything else to disassemble either item.
Then after I left son texts me and says we are out of dog food. I didn't respond to his text because I was busy unpacking stuff, but about 5 hours later I replied and asked if mom had bought some dog food, he said "no, and she also didn't get me dunkin donuts like she told me she would". So I thought that meant she wasn't home, so I text him and said no dunkin donuts, but do you want dinner and ended up picking up something for us to eat from Olive Garden and bought some dog food. When I got to the house, she was home but she was in her bedroom, and never came out during the 1 1/2 hrs I was there.. so not sure what was going on with her.
Got to work today (a little late cause I don't have a routine at the new place) and she's not here, so I'm thinking she called out but I don't know for sure. Makes me wonder if she's either a little overwhelmed by all the stuff she needs to do to move, a little depressed about everything, or not feeling well. I have no idea, and the only way to know would be to ask, so I guess I'll never know. Doesn't matter anyway, this is where we are at, and I have enough to do without worrying about her.
I can't say enough how amazed I am at how much sadness I feel about not living in my house, not living with my son or dogs, but almost no sadness about not living with WW. There is definitely a sense of relief that I no longer have to deal with her on a daily basis, and finally feel like I'm going to really begin building my new life without her.
Moved all the furniture into the new place on Saturday, and stayed there Sat. night. I slept on the couch in the new place on Sat and Sun night, I'm not sure why, but I didn't want to get into the bed in my new place. I feel like it's symbolic somehow, but I can't seem to figure out why I just didn't want to get in bed.
I'm doing well, no weighed down in sadness, but there definitely is a sort of numbness there, I feel like I've checked into a hotel but I know this is going to be a long stay. I'm still making a bunch of trips back to the house picking stuff up, had dinner with Son last night, so still a little bit of normalcy by going to the house. I am just going to need some time to get used to my new place being home.
Not much going on between me and WW, other than saying hi in passing a few times, I haven't seen her much. She was watching TV when all my family came over to help me move, but only one person said hi to her and gave her a hug, everyone else just kinda of went about the business of moving stuff, it was a bit awkward, so she just went in her room and didn't see her again while we were moving.
Then on Sunday, she text'd me and said she had someone who wanted to buy the hottub and trampoline, but she didn't know how to drain the hottub and was asking me for help. I didn't respond to the text, but when I got to the house, I started draining the hut tub, and put the instructions on the patio table as well as the tool needed to disassemble the trampoline (which was in my tool box). I simply told her I put them on the table because I had no intention of doing anything else to disassemble either item.
Then after I left son texts me and says we are out of dog food. I didn't respond to his text because I was busy unpacking stuff, but about 5 hours later I replied and asked if mom had bought some dog food, he said "no, and she also didn't get me dunkin donuts like she told me she would". So I thought that meant she wasn't home, so I text him and said no dunkin donuts, but do you want dinner and ended up picking up something for us to eat from Olive Garden and bought some dog food. When I got to the house, she was home but she was in her bedroom, and never came out during the 1 1/2 hrs I was there.. so not sure what was going on with her.
Got to work today (a little late cause I don't have a routine at the new place) and she's not here, so I'm thinking she called out but I don't know for sure. Makes me wonder if she's either a little overwhelmed by all the stuff she needs to do to move, a little depressed about everything, or not feeling well. I have no idea, and the only way to know would be to ask, so I guess I'll never know. Doesn't matter anyway, this is where we are at, and I have enough to do without worrying about her.
I can't say enough how amazed I am at how much sadness I feel about not living in my house, not living with my son or dogs, but almost no sadness about not living with WW. There is definitely a sense of relief that I no longer have to deal with her on a daily basis, and finally feel like I'm going to really begin building my new life without her.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/03/16 02:43 PM
Hey Coconut... Read through your entire sitch and while I don't have any real advice for you just wanted to say that reading it really helped me. Made me realize I am not alone with the roller coaster of emotions that happen. Just wanted to let you know I appreciate you sharing your story.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/04/16 05:37 AM
Matw,
you are not alone on this rollercoaster. The trick is to try and level out the ups and downs so they are not so severe, and that comes with time. Just remember, your emotions are on overdrive, you can't control that, but focus on your reactions to those extremes, you can control your reactions.
Just cause your angry doesn't mean that you need to react to that anger (at least towards your W), try and find a way to get through this period without doing anything that you will regret long term. If I had to do it all over again, I would of tried harder to S from my wife and go dark, let some time pass while my emotions calmed down. I think that would have made a big difference.
you are not alone on this rollercoaster. The trick is to try and level out the ups and downs so they are not so severe, and that comes with time. Just remember, your emotions are on overdrive, you can't control that, but focus on your reactions to those extremes, you can control your reactions.
Just cause your angry doesn't mean that you need to react to that anger (at least towards your W), try and find a way to get through this period without doing anything that you will regret long term. If I had to do it all over again, I would of tried harder to S from my wife and go dark, let some time pass while my emotions calmed down. I think that would have made a big difference.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/05/16 06:39 PM
Ok, so a hurricane has a way of making not fixing problems very difficult. I cannot ignore things that need to be done to minimize damage to the house, because we are supposed to close last week. That means helping to get rid of trampoline that she's been ignoring for the last two months, hot tub, patio table, outdoor pool table, etc.
So I've now taken on some of that responsibility, but on a positive note, I made it very clear I was not doing the shutters myself and had WW and S lugging them around the house and helping to install them. Also, W had to go somewhere kinda far today, and made a comment about how she didn't know if her car would make it since she has a donut on (since her tire blew and she doesn't have cash to replace), I just said I can see how you'd be worried and drive safe. I didn't offer up my truck, but truth be told, it really is half hers so if she'd asked I would of given her the keys, but she didn't ask so I didn't offer.
I told her I'm going to spend the night there tomorrow because of the storm, if something happens I would want to be there to keep her and son safe, I don't want to see anything bad happen to either. But as soon as we were done putting up shutters today, I took off to my place, she wanted me to stay for dinner but I didn't want to increase interaction more than I need to.
So I've now taken on some of that responsibility, but on a positive note, I made it very clear I was not doing the shutters myself and had WW and S lugging them around the house and helping to install them. Also, W had to go somewhere kinda far today, and made a comment about how she didn't know if her car would make it since she has a donut on (since her tire blew and she doesn't have cash to replace), I just said I can see how you'd be worried and drive safe. I didn't offer up my truck, but truth be told, it really is half hers so if she'd asked I would of given her the keys, but she didn't ask so I didn't offer.
I told her I'm going to spend the night there tomorrow because of the storm, if something happens I would want to be there to keep her and son safe, I don't want to see anything bad happen to either. But as soon as we were done putting up shutters today, I took off to my place, she wanted me to stay for dinner but I didn't want to increase interaction more than I need to.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/07/16 09:41 AM
Ok, so the hurricane stayed pretty far offshore from us, so worst we got locally wasn't even as bad as some of the storms that usually come through this area. I'm hoping the same for those north of us in Jacksonville area, but it's looking like it may hit them pretty hard.
As for R stuff, we finished putting all the shutters up and bringing everything inside yesterday around 3pm. I then went to my apt to shower, change and some stuff to stay overnight at the house. After being back at the house for about 2 hours, I was getting cabin fever and didn't want to be there, so I headed back to my house for the night (by then it was obvious we weren't going to get hit hard).
She text me about 30 mins. later and said that she had picked up stuff to make dinner for the 3 of us, and I was welcome to come have dinner. I thought it was nice of her so I accepted, and headed back to the house soon after. She cooked, I hung out with son, helped her with a few things cooking wise, and we all sat down to eat.
After dinner, I was getting antsy again, just didn't want to be there, so I stuck around for about an hour and then left to go home.
I'm starting to realize there is nothing there, I have no feelings for her, I don't know if I would ever want to get back together with her. I do not have any urges to understand why, or discuss us, and definitely do not picture a future with her in it. I also don't find myself having any anger towards her anymore. I think the only emotion I derive from her anymore is annoyance, annoyed that she procrastinates, annoyed that she is ALWAYS on phone whenever I see her (she was even on phone while we were putting up shutters), but I can now honestly say I don't care anymore.
I'm even finding myself wondering if I should go ahead and file for D. The logical me says that there is no hurry, and I never know how I will feel in a year or so, so I am not going to file, but I do like that I could go file and it wouldn't matter to me. Sure it would be sad, just as every step we go through brings some sadness, but it would no longer devastate me, it would no longer change the way I live my life. Man, that really feels good.
As for R stuff, we finished putting all the shutters up and bringing everything inside yesterday around 3pm. I then went to my apt to shower, change and some stuff to stay overnight at the house. After being back at the house for about 2 hours, I was getting cabin fever and didn't want to be there, so I headed back to my house for the night (by then it was obvious we weren't going to get hit hard).
She text me about 30 mins. later and said that she had picked up stuff to make dinner for the 3 of us, and I was welcome to come have dinner. I thought it was nice of her so I accepted, and headed back to the house soon after. She cooked, I hung out with son, helped her with a few things cooking wise, and we all sat down to eat.
After dinner, I was getting antsy again, just didn't want to be there, so I stuck around for about an hour and then left to go home.
I'm starting to realize there is nothing there, I have no feelings for her, I don't know if I would ever want to get back together with her. I do not have any urges to understand why, or discuss us, and definitely do not picture a future with her in it. I also don't find myself having any anger towards her anymore. I think the only emotion I derive from her anymore is annoyance, annoyed that she procrastinates, annoyed that she is ALWAYS on phone whenever I see her (she was even on phone while we were putting up shutters), but I can now honestly say I don't care anymore.
I'm even finding myself wondering if I should go ahead and file for D. The logical me says that there is no hurry, and I never know how I will feel in a year or so, so I am not going to file, but I do like that I could go file and it wouldn't matter to me. Sure it would be sad, just as every step we go through brings some sadness, but it would no longer devastate me, it would no longer change the way I live my life. Man, that really feels good.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/07/16 10:07 AM
Now that you're becoming "meh" about the marriage, watch the results of that. She'll start pursuing you more. She already is to some degree. They want what they can't have.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/07/16 10:36 AM
Coconut,
I am glad to read that you guys are safe from Matthew...whew, it's really scary to look at it from the news.
As for your internal dialogue about filing for a D, you will know when to file for a D. It is when the chatter inside your head stops and you just know deep inside your cells.
If the chatter is still going on, then maybe hold off on filing for a bit longer.
I am glad to read that you guys are safe from Matthew...whew, it's really scary to look at it from the news.
As for your internal dialogue about filing for a D, you will know when to file for a D. It is when the chatter inside your head stops and you just know deep inside your cells.
If the chatter is still going on, then maybe hold off on filing for a bit longer.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/07/16 10:52 AM
Coconut,
I'm in Tally-town. We're getting a lot of gusty wind and we're a long way from the east coast.
I'm in Tally-town. We're getting a lot of gusty wind and we're a long way from the east coast.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/08/16 07:20 AM
So, woke up late today and saw a bunch of missed calls from WW and a text telling me the movers are at the house and her check wasn't deposited in her account that she switched her deposit to. Asked me to check joint acct to see if her check was deposited in there, I guess she doesn't even know the password to our acct (smh), so I text her back and tell her only my check was deposited.
She just texts crap, I can't believe my check wasn't deposited, ok. So again, my instinct is to tell her I can withdraw the money she needs to pay them, but I didn't and am not going to offer. But I'm not sure what I'm going to do if she asks to borrow the money, im not going to offer but I think it may be mean to not help her out if she asks.
As I'm sitting here, I think about the things she's not known over the last week since I've moved out. She had to ask how to turn the sprinklers off, she's had to ask how to turn the ac down, I had to tell her that garbage man will only take special garbage bags I had in cabinet (she was using regular ones), she had to ask me to check joint account, she had to ask me to drain hot tub, take apart trampoline.... I've done everything around the house while we were M, but yet she has the nerve to say I didn't do anything. Not only did she not have the courtesy or desire to help out around the house, but she didn't even recognize everything I did.
She just texts crap, I can't believe my check wasn't deposited, ok. So again, my instinct is to tell her I can withdraw the money she needs to pay them, but I didn't and am not going to offer. But I'm not sure what I'm going to do if she asks to borrow the money, im not going to offer but I think it may be mean to not help her out if she asks.
As I'm sitting here, I think about the things she's not known over the last week since I've moved out. She had to ask how to turn the sprinklers off, she's had to ask how to turn the ac down, I had to tell her that garbage man will only take special garbage bags I had in cabinet (she was using regular ones), she had to ask me to check joint account, she had to ask me to drain hot tub, take apart trampoline.... I've done everything around the house while we were M, but yet she has the nerve to say I didn't do anything. Not only did she not have the courtesy or desire to help out around the house, but she didn't even recognize everything I did.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/08/16 01:34 PM
We women thought it was bad enough when you said she had never bought groceries, but now we learn it was much worse. She doesn't know how to turn the AC down?! 
This is a female firefighter?
I sure hope you have learned a lesson, Coconut, b/c this woman is going try and use you like crazy....and it will not end once she is out of the house.......just sit back and watch. What concerns me is that you will find excuses (mainly the boy) to do things for her. Plus, this boy is like 16 or 17 yrs old, right? Can't he do a few things, like draining the tub, taking apart the trampoline, etc............(and if you say you never wanted him having to do things like that b/c of whatever, then that's going to be very telling on you maybe having co-dependent issues). She really has not been on her own since you moved out, but like I said, she will continue to use you for whenever she gets another place. It will be never ending. It is way past time for her to put on her big girl panties!
I have been wondering if you have some co-dependency issues. I did not see it, until after you decided to separate. However, I certainly am no authority on the subject. I believe we show love for our children, and spouse, by teaching them how to do things for themselves..........not doing it all for them. Doing everything for them, teaches them how to be dependent on us.
This is a female firefighter? I sure hope you have learned a lesson, Coconut, b/c this woman is going try and use you like crazy....and it will not end once she is out of the house.......just sit back and watch. What concerns me is that you will find excuses (mainly the boy) to do things for her. Plus, this boy is like 16 or 17 yrs old, right? Can't he do a few things, like draining the tub, taking apart the trampoline, etc............(and if you say you never wanted him having to do things like that b/c of whatever, then that's going to be very telling on you maybe having co-dependent issues). She really has not been on her own since you moved out, but like I said, she will continue to use you for whenever she gets another place. It will be never ending. It is way past time for her to put on her big girl panties!
I have been wondering if you have some co-dependency issues. I did not see it, until after you decided to separate. However, I certainly am no authority on the subject. I believe we show love for our children, and spouse, by teaching them how to do things for themselves..........not doing it all for them. Doing everything for them, teaches them how to be dependent on us.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/08/16 02:40 PM
I also wonder if part of the high she gets from firefighting is feeling competent.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/08/16 05:41 PM
What leads you to think she didn't have the courtesy desire to do anything around the house? Did you ask her to help and she turned you down and she told you to do it? Or did she just not volunteer ?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/08/16 06:08 PM
Sandi, I always had him helping me do things, build the trampoline, change the spark plugs, build dance floor etc... The kiss is hella book smart, but has mechanical know how of a chimp. If I don't tell him step by step instructions, he gets frustrated and gives up. So it would take a lot for him to figure this stuff out.
Rose888, lol.. I never thought about it, but you may be right.. She is generally grouped into the pretty blonde girly thing, so being looked up to as a first responder could have something to do with her sudden holier than now attitude.
Ginger, I simply would get tired of waiting for her to do something and go do it myself. Example, we have (well she has now) a dog that is part chow, so very hairy, and she needs to be shaved every 2 or 3 months or shedding gets out of control. I've been telling W since December to take her to groomers, well last week my mom came over and took the dog to groomers cause she didn't want dog shedding all over my sons new house. 10 months she procrastinated, and I refused to pick up the slack. Over all, when I ask her to do something, she would agree and then procrastinate.
Rose888, lol.. I never thought about it, but you may be right.. She is generally grouped into the pretty blonde girly thing, so being looked up to as a first responder could have something to do with her sudden holier than now attitude.
Ginger, I simply would get tired of waiting for her to do something and go do it myself. Example, we have (well she has now) a dog that is part chow, so very hairy, and she needs to be shaved every 2 or 3 months or shedding gets out of control. I've been telling W since December to take her to groomers, well last week my mom came over and took the dog to groomers cause she didn't want dog shedding all over my sons new house. 10 months she procrastinated, and I refused to pick up the slack. Over all, when I ask her to do something, she would agree and then procrastinate.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/09/16 02:16 PM
I posted this on Blu's thread and just wanted to copy it here.
Originally Posted By: Coconut
Lately I have been pondering on the process for the WS to realize how bad what they did was and truly feel remorse. In my case, my WW recently (6 mos after this all started) told her BFF that it was my fault she had an A, she told my cousin that she was friends with OM first (they only knew each other 1 mos before A) to justify her continuing "friendship", she told me during counseling that I think it was so much worse than it was...
6 mos in, she still feels zero remorse for what she's done. She's lost my family, she's lost me and we've sold our house. Yet before we signed the contract to sell I said you know what I need, and she replied "yeah, to give up just about everything". She's lost most of her long time friends, she's lost my family (a huge part of her previous life), she's lost everything but our son and the fire dept. and yet she still feels no remorse.
I'll be honest blue, I don't know how you decided to accept your WH back into your life after a year, because I am 6 mos in and my walls are so high tha I don't see any way she could ever get past them to come back to me. I still hope one day I will get a true apology, but I'm past ever expecting that, and I'm past caring if I don't...
6 mos in, she still feels zero remorse for what she's done. She's lost my family, she's lost me and we've sold our house. Yet before we signed the contract to sell I said you know what I need, and she replied "yeah, to give up just about everything". She's lost most of her long time friends, she's lost my family (a huge part of her previous life), she's lost everything but our son and the fire dept. and yet she still feels no remorse.
I'll be honest blue, I don't know how you decided to accept your WH back into your life after a year, because I am 6 mos in and my walls are so high tha I don't see any way she could ever get past them to come back to me. I still hope one day I will get a true apology, but I'm past ever expecting that, and I'm past caring if I don't...
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/11/16 08:29 AM
So almost everything is out of the house, I have two trips left, one to my storage and one to my apt, and then I will be done at the house. She managed to get most of her stuff out in 4 days, but still has enough to probably take 10 or so trips back and forth to her new place.
For the most part, the move out is complete and we have both taken a different path in the road. Once I got back to my apt last night, sadness hit and I sent a text (not DB, but I managed not to try and get one last hug, so the text was that one last connection for me).
Me: This was a very sad weekend for me, lots of memories, dreams and plans lost. We had some good times and I hope to hold on to those memories, take care of our boy and puppies.
WW: This was a very sad weekend for me as well. It makes me sad that things can't be different. you can pick the dogs up and keep them whenever you want & you know the same goes for son.
That was it, that was the only conversation or anything that we had regarding going our separate ways. my next text from her had to do with someone going by the house today to buy sons trampoline.
I got pretty sad when I was sitting in my apt last night, luckily my son called and said he was going bowling, so I went and met up with him for a couple of hours after having to go home and hit the bed since I was absolutely exhausted from all the work in the last few days.
For the most part, the move out is complete and we have both taken a different path in the road. Once I got back to my apt last night, sadness hit and I sent a text (not DB, but I managed not to try and get one last hug, so the text was that one last connection for me).
Me: This was a very sad weekend for me, lots of memories, dreams and plans lost. We had some good times and I hope to hold on to those memories, take care of our boy and puppies.
WW: This was a very sad weekend for me as well. It makes me sad that things can't be different. you can pick the dogs up and keep them whenever you want & you know the same goes for son.
That was it, that was the only conversation or anything that we had regarding going our separate ways. my next text from her had to do with someone going by the house today to buy sons trampoline.
I got pretty sad when I was sitting in my apt last night, luckily my son called and said he was going bowling, so I went and met up with him for a couple of hours after having to go home and hit the bed since I was absolutely exhausted from all the work in the last few days.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/11/16 11:00 AM
(((((((C-nut)))))))
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/11/16 01:03 PM
Ugh...sorry Coconut!! Hugs to you!!
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/11/16 03:33 PM
Thanks Ladies, I appreciate the support... I'm doing ok, I did let out a few tears, but it felt good to just feel sadness, because I've early been very numb to sadness lately.
I forgot to mention that my bowling was outstanding yesterday, well, um, outstanding for me lately. I've only been bowling 3 or 4 times in the last umpteen years, and the last few times I was hovering around 100 points a game. Last night I was bowling between 140 - 171 a game, my son was shocked that I was beating him so bad. So when I left he stuck around to get some extra practice to make sure he beats me next time.
WW has been texting me non-stop today, I've been responding to things to do with house and son, but delaying my response. Today she text while I was driving home and then had to deal with some stuff at the leasing office, after about 30 mins she text "thanks" because I hadn't responded to her insignificant questions..
For now I'm just waiting to sell the house and then going as dark as I can considering we work in the same office (but have really cut back on interaction)... I figure I'll be moving in about two months unless something significantly changes, unlikely to happen, but I'm not delaying my moving when I get a good job offer unless there are major changes in my feelings before it happens.
I forgot to mention that my bowling was outstanding yesterday, well, um, outstanding for me lately. I've only been bowling 3 or 4 times in the last umpteen years, and the last few times I was hovering around 100 points a game. Last night I was bowling between 140 - 171 a game, my son was shocked that I was beating him so bad. So when I left he stuck around to get some extra practice to make sure he beats me next time.
WW has been texting me non-stop today, I've been responding to things to do with house and son, but delaying my response. Today she text while I was driving home and then had to deal with some stuff at the leasing office, after about 30 mins she text "thanks" because I hadn't responded to her insignificant questions..
For now I'm just waiting to sell the house and then going as dark as I can considering we work in the same office (but have really cut back on interaction)... I figure I'll be moving in about two months unless something significantly changes, unlikely to happen, but I'm not delaying my moving when I get a good job offer unless there are major changes in my feelings before it happens.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/11/16 07:17 PM
Cnut
I don't have much to share, but just wanted to drop by and wish you the best.
Thanks for all the advice and don't be a stranger
I don't have much to share, but just wanted to drop by and wish you the best.
Thanks for all the advice and don't be a stranger
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/12/16 09:21 AM
so, I snooped a little today, I guess OM W and my W are friends now, or at least cordial. OM W had posted something on FB about it takes a special person to get through a terrible time and come out with a smile on their face, and my WW "hearted" it. Not really sure what to make of that, I think OM W is blind to the real status of her R, but that's her issue not mine. Just kinda surprised me that my WW would be liking stuff on her page.
So, I was looking at Natus' thread, and he mentioned that milestones are coming slow, he's 8 months in and major events still haven't taken place, such as selling house, finding someone else (not sure that would be expected at 8 mos), etc..
So I took a look at my signature, I'm just barely 6 mos since ILYBNILWY speech, and 5 mos since confirming A. In that short time, I've tried piecing (or so I thought), I've tried in-house S (hardest thing ever), and I sold the house and moved into my own place within 6 mos. WOW, that's all I can say, WOW.
I take stock of my R, think back to comments made by Wonka and Blu, and I think that I "could" be currently trying to R with my W, if it weren't for a certain hard headedness on both of our parts that has caused this true S. On her part it is her unwillingness to quit the FD to go NC and to commit to MR more than FB and male friends. On my part, it is standing up for my boundary of NC.
I truly believe that I could be in a R similar to that of OM and his W, but I truly realize I don't want that, I DO NOT want a house of cards. I realize that my WW truly believes her and OM are doing nothing wrong, but I go back to the conversation between the two of them 2 1/2 months ago talking about their feelings, about being open and not keeping secrets. That is not a conversation that is acceptable to have with a opposite sex "friend" in my M. It just isn't. For the first time, I think I truly understand the purpose and necessity of boundaries. I am not trying to control what she does by having my boundary, but I know my boundary will keep me safe (and sane) by protecting future R's. If you don't agree with not having special "friends", that's ok, but you will never be my W. Kinda like saying I would never marry someone who uses curse words in every sentence, it's just not something I want in my life. I'm not trying to get them to stop cursing, I am just not inviting them into my inner circle.
In reading the newbies threads (in which I see myself in them when I first showed up), the only thing that is important to them is saving their M, the problem is when you are that early in the process you don't really understand what your trying to save. My WW immediately felt guilty, wanted to do the right thing, and we both thought we were trying to save our M. But actually it was just rug sweeping, just moving along trying to get over what had happened but not really understanding why it happened or what we each needed for happiness. I wanted to save my M so bad that I was not upholding any of my boundaries (NC being the biggest one) just so that I could be "with" my W.
Looking back now, I realize what a mistake that was, there was no way in the world that we could have pieced and lasted from where we started that process. She wasn't into it, she was only doing what was easiest and what society considers right (saving marriage). At this point I find it highly unlikely that we will ever get back together, but I realize that I'm still very early in this process and there are still a lot of changes that will occur with both of us, so I'm not completely shutting that possibility down.
But at this point, what I'm not doing is waiting. I am going to accept a job in the country when I get offered one I want. I do not see that as being an end all, we had always talked about wanting to move north when son went to college anyway, so I would just be starting early. I can't say if I would ever take her back or not, so I'm not even considering that, but I do consider if any of my moves would prevent that from being possible if we both decided we wanted it in the future.
I may even decide to file for D, because I still don't see that as an end all. Even if we got back together, I think it would be such a new R I wouldn't really "feel" married without renewing vows, or something to symbolize a new union. I'm not saying I am going to file for D, just saying I haven't completely left it off the table.
ok, that's a lot of rambling thoughts jumbled together. c-ya
So, I was looking at Natus' thread, and he mentioned that milestones are coming slow, he's 8 months in and major events still haven't taken place, such as selling house, finding someone else (not sure that would be expected at 8 mos), etc..
So I took a look at my signature, I'm just barely 6 mos since ILYBNILWY speech, and 5 mos since confirming A. In that short time, I've tried piecing (or so I thought), I've tried in-house S (hardest thing ever), and I sold the house and moved into my own place within 6 mos. WOW, that's all I can say, WOW.
I take stock of my R, think back to comments made by Wonka and Blu, and I think that I "could" be currently trying to R with my W, if it weren't for a certain hard headedness on both of our parts that has caused this true S. On her part it is her unwillingness to quit the FD to go NC and to commit to MR more than FB and male friends. On my part, it is standing up for my boundary of NC.
I truly believe that I could be in a R similar to that of OM and his W, but I truly realize I don't want that, I DO NOT want a house of cards. I realize that my WW truly believes her and OM are doing nothing wrong, but I go back to the conversation between the two of them 2 1/2 months ago talking about their feelings, about being open and not keeping secrets. That is not a conversation that is acceptable to have with a opposite sex "friend" in my M. It just isn't. For the first time, I think I truly understand the purpose and necessity of boundaries. I am not trying to control what she does by having my boundary, but I know my boundary will keep me safe (and sane) by protecting future R's. If you don't agree with not having special "friends", that's ok, but you will never be my W. Kinda like saying I would never marry someone who uses curse words in every sentence, it's just not something I want in my life. I'm not trying to get them to stop cursing, I am just not inviting them into my inner circle.
In reading the newbies threads (in which I see myself in them when I first showed up), the only thing that is important to them is saving their M, the problem is when you are that early in the process you don't really understand what your trying to save. My WW immediately felt guilty, wanted to do the right thing, and we both thought we were trying to save our M. But actually it was just rug sweeping, just moving along trying to get over what had happened but not really understanding why it happened or what we each needed for happiness. I wanted to save my M so bad that I was not upholding any of my boundaries (NC being the biggest one) just so that I could be "with" my W.
Looking back now, I realize what a mistake that was, there was no way in the world that we could have pieced and lasted from where we started that process. She wasn't into it, she was only doing what was easiest and what society considers right (saving marriage). At this point I find it highly unlikely that we will ever get back together, but I realize that I'm still very early in this process and there are still a lot of changes that will occur with both of us, so I'm not completely shutting that possibility down.
But at this point, what I'm not doing is waiting. I am going to accept a job in the country when I get offered one I want. I do not see that as being an end all, we had always talked about wanting to move north when son went to college anyway, so I would just be starting early. I can't say if I would ever take her back or not, so I'm not even considering that, but I do consider if any of my moves would prevent that from being possible if we both decided we wanted it in the future.
I may even decide to file for D, because I still don't see that as an end all. Even if we got back together, I think it would be such a new R I wouldn't really "feel" married without renewing vows, or something to symbolize a new union. I'm not saying I am going to file for D, just saying I haven't completely left it off the table.
ok, that's a lot of rambling thoughts jumbled together. c-ya
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/12/16 10:33 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut
so, I snooped a little today, I guess OM W and my W are friends now, or at least cordial. OM W had posted something on FB about it takes a special person to get through a terrible time and come out with a smile on their face, and my WW "hearted" it. Not really sure what to make of that, I think OM W is blind to the real status of her R, but that's her issue not mine. Just kinda surprised me that my WW would be liking stuff on her page.
Coconut,
I'm sorry about all of the stuff you're going through. My XW is friends with the OM's wife. In fact, the OM's wife actually helps my XW and her husband be together. It's weird as h3ll, and I rarely talk about it with anyone because it's almost unbelievable. My MC/IC said it was one of the weirdest cases she's had in her 25 years of experience.
Anyway, I'm telling you all of that to be supportive. I had a difficult time coming to grips with my situation and if it weren't for my wonderful IC, I'd probably still be questioning what was going on. It sounds like you have a good grasp of your situation. And, like everyone says, it eventually gets better.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/13/16 04:39 AM
Have you considered making your apartment your own personal man cave? It might help you get though some of these nights of feeling empty and in a foreign land. Make it fun, and maybe get your son in on it. Just you guys, sort of thing.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/14/16 08:07 AM
Cnut,
First off, I've only read this thread, not your previous one(s). So if I speak out of ignorance, please forgive me and set me straight. I'm not sharing expertise (as if I had any), but my observation of reading the six pages of this particular thread.
First off, what I see in your posts is a man who is much more divided internally than he wants to admit. I'm not saying that as a criticism.
Second, I get the impression that you're a bit of a Type A kind of person, and your wife (and possibly son) are not. That sets up difficulties, especially when things get rocky. I'm reminded of Chapman's "The 5 Love Languages", and reminded that one of the things I had to learn in my story was that I failed to be intentional about knowing my spouse well enough to be sure that I spoke her love language.
Third, I don't think you really want to leave. I cannot imagine you wanting to leave just because of your son alone. (and this is where my lack of knowledge might make me speak ignorantly) I don't know how anyone can move away from their own child and think it's a justifiable thing.
Fourth, sometimes we close the door so hard that it can't be opened again. You're getting stellar advice from Sandi, someone who is much more familiar with your full story, so I will gladly yield to her better understanding of what's transpired, but I get the sense that you've possibly shut off any possibility that things could still be healed here.
Someone in this thread commented to you at one point about "ultimatum" versus "boundary". I think the two boundaries you mentioned about the FD job and the OM were actually one boundary and one ultimatum. Insisting that the FD interest end is an ultimatum. Insisting that she break off contact with OM is a healthy and necesary boundary.
If your wife is passionate about working in the FD, it seems to me that she can do FD in lots of different places. It seems the OM is an FD person, and I can understand your need for that relationship to be over and no longer physically possible through work. But that doesn't mean she has to abandon the career.
You're a strong Type A doer. Your wife is not. It's possible she's never really accomplished much or felt accomplished. What if working in the FD gives her that sense of being capable? Will you sacrifice your marriage and family to deny that to her?
Ooozing through the lines of what you right, especially in the last page or so of posts, is a man who is grieving his loss - and we don't grieve things that we no longer care about. I get the sense that a lot of this is a "fake it till you make it" that has taken over.
I'm not trying to criticize in any way. Just trying to give you the perspective of a complete outsider.
Blessings,
Bill
First off, I've only read this thread, not your previous one(s). So if I speak out of ignorance, please forgive me and set me straight. I'm not sharing expertise (as if I had any), but my observation of reading the six pages of this particular thread.
First off, what I see in your posts is a man who is much more divided internally than he wants to admit. I'm not saying that as a criticism.
Second, I get the impression that you're a bit of a Type A kind of person, and your wife (and possibly son) are not. That sets up difficulties, especially when things get rocky. I'm reminded of Chapman's "The 5 Love Languages", and reminded that one of the things I had to learn in my story was that I failed to be intentional about knowing my spouse well enough to be sure that I spoke her love language.
Third, I don't think you really want to leave. I cannot imagine you wanting to leave just because of your son alone. (and this is where my lack of knowledge might make me speak ignorantly) I don't know how anyone can move away from their own child and think it's a justifiable thing.
Fourth, sometimes we close the door so hard that it can't be opened again. You're getting stellar advice from Sandi, someone who is much more familiar with your full story, so I will gladly yield to her better understanding of what's transpired, but I get the sense that you've possibly shut off any possibility that things could still be healed here.
Someone in this thread commented to you at one point about "ultimatum" versus "boundary". I think the two boundaries you mentioned about the FD job and the OM were actually one boundary and one ultimatum. Insisting that the FD interest end is an ultimatum. Insisting that she break off contact with OM is a healthy and necesary boundary.
If your wife is passionate about working in the FD, it seems to me that she can do FD in lots of different places. It seems the OM is an FD person, and I can understand your need for that relationship to be over and no longer physically possible through work. But that doesn't mean she has to abandon the career.
You're a strong Type A doer. Your wife is not. It's possible she's never really accomplished much or felt accomplished. What if working in the FD gives her that sense of being capable? Will you sacrifice your marriage and family to deny that to her?
Ooozing through the lines of what you right, especially in the last page or so of posts, is a man who is grieving his loss - and we don't grieve things that we no longer care about. I get the sense that a lot of this is a "fake it till you make it" that has taken over.
I'm not trying to criticize in any way. Just trying to give you the perspective of a complete outsider.
Blessings,
Bill
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/15/16 12:43 PM
Good post Bwolr.
My take is that Coconut isn't divided at all...he would love to have a restored marriage, but won't allow himself to be put through hell and back with a spouse that doesn't reciprocate this commitment enough not to make the M their number one priority and respect him as a man. Coconut isn't walking away from the marriage, but it makes sense for him to protect himself.
Your point about how she feels and what the FD does for her makes sense. At the same time, the FD seems to have been all mixed up with WW with the EA and with her rebellious nature. And for her to put this in front of the marriage would be a big issue to me.
If WW broke it off with OM, took some time to herself, focused on healing, expressed interest in rebuilding the M, explained that she would be willing to make some sacrifices in the short term to rebuild the M, but that in the long term she needed C to understand that it was important to her to participate in work outside the M, and for her to bring up ways she might be able to do this without being near OM or his triggers but that involved some flexibility on C's part...well, I think C would be willing to have this conversation.
For a woman that has been wayward and refuses to make the M a top priority, however, I understand why C wouldn't want to look back over his shoulder. He may have some grieving ahead of him, but I would choose a lifetime of grief over a marriage only held together by my willingness to accept waywardness.
As for moving away, that would be hard. I can't see my life disconnected from my children. I believe we make a commitment to our children as well as to our spouses, and that commitment isn't contingent upon what their mother does. It would be very hard for S for him not to have his father around. I hope that is possible.
My take is that Coconut isn't divided at all...he would love to have a restored marriage, but won't allow himself to be put through hell and back with a spouse that doesn't reciprocate this commitment enough not to make the M their number one priority and respect him as a man. Coconut isn't walking away from the marriage, but it makes sense for him to protect himself.
Your point about how she feels and what the FD does for her makes sense. At the same time, the FD seems to have been all mixed up with WW with the EA and with her rebellious nature. And for her to put this in front of the marriage would be a big issue to me.
If WW broke it off with OM, took some time to herself, focused on healing, expressed interest in rebuilding the M, explained that she would be willing to make some sacrifices in the short term to rebuild the M, but that in the long term she needed C to understand that it was important to her to participate in work outside the M, and for her to bring up ways she might be able to do this without being near OM or his triggers but that involved some flexibility on C's part...well, I think C would be willing to have this conversation.
For a woman that has been wayward and refuses to make the M a top priority, however, I understand why C wouldn't want to look back over his shoulder. He may have some grieving ahead of him, but I would choose a lifetime of grief over a marriage only held together by my willingness to accept waywardness.
As for moving away, that would be hard. I can't see my life disconnected from my children. I believe we make a commitment to our children as well as to our spouses, and that commitment isn't contingent upon what their mother does. It would be very hard for S for him not to have his father around. I hope that is possible.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/17/16 07:09 PM
Hey y'all,
I've been taking a breather, I came up to the mountains with my mother and brother, we've been having a blast and its just what I needed for this weekend. I don't remember the last time I've had this much fun, and it's been great.
But occasionally my mind has wondered, because today was my anniversary and I close on my house Wed, the day after we get home. The first few days were great, but last night I had some crazy dreams about my W, I can't remember the last time I dreamt and it wasn't pleasant. Then around noon (I hadn't really been thinking about us too much) she texts me that she's sorry, she had broke down and posted a memory on Facebook of our wedding video. When I saw the text around two pm, I just replied it's ok, but it took me a bit to get my mind back off of it.
I'm doing ok, I've really had a great week in the mountains and today was the only day any feelings creeped up, but I dealt with them. I'm going to bed now, cause I'm exhausted and we are leaving at 5am... Goodnight, sweet dreams (hopefully).
I've been taking a breather, I came up to the mountains with my mother and brother, we've been having a blast and its just what I needed for this weekend. I don't remember the last time I've had this much fun, and it's been great.
But occasionally my mind has wondered, because today was my anniversary and I close on my house Wed, the day after we get home. The first few days were great, but last night I had some crazy dreams about my W, I can't remember the last time I dreamt and it wasn't pleasant. Then around noon (I hadn't really been thinking about us too much) she texts me that she's sorry, she had broke down and posted a memory on Facebook of our wedding video. When I saw the text around two pm, I just replied it's ok, but it took me a bit to get my mind back off of it.
I'm doing ok, I've really had a great week in the mountains and today was the only day any feelings creeped up, but I dealt with them. I'm going to bed now, cause I'm exhausted and we are leaving at 5am... Goodnight, sweet dreams (hopefully).
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/18/16 01:09 AM
Hey Coco,
You're doing great! Your mind will create fear about the future, and make you cry about the past. But live in the present moment.
In this moment, you are neither a father or a husband. You are simply a man. Feel the moment, but don't get stuck in it, cos the next moment is around the corner.
And if you live from moment to moment then you will be happy and you will find peace. And when you do see your son, show him the unconditional love that you have, the love that transcends time and space!
But never look back. Here's lyrics of a beautiful song, it speaks to my soul and I know that it will speak to yours too...
"Towards The Sun"
[Chorus 2x:]
Turn your face towards the sun
Let the shadows fall behind you
Tell a prayer, just carry on
And the shadows will never find you
Lost in the rock and roll
Got lost in a promise of a love I never know
Shadows chase me far from home
I remember when my heart was filled with gold
And you know
I've been burned
I've been burned
I've been burned
You see me lose control
It's not worth
It's not worth
It's not worth
My soul
[Chorus]
Lost my faith and trust
You and I know gold don't turn to rust
I still swear that we can reign
Like the kings and queens of better yesterday
Don't you know
I've been burned
I've been burned
I've been burned
You see me lose control
It's not worth
It's not worth
It's not worth
My soul
[Chorus]
Where you gonna go
Where you gonna go
Where you gonna run to
When you get to the edge of the night
It's time you face the sky
You're doing great! Your mind will create fear about the future, and make you cry about the past. But live in the present moment.
In this moment, you are neither a father or a husband. You are simply a man. Feel the moment, but don't get stuck in it, cos the next moment is around the corner.
And if you live from moment to moment then you will be happy and you will find peace. And when you do see your son, show him the unconditional love that you have, the love that transcends time and space!
But never look back. Here's lyrics of a beautiful song, it speaks to my soul and I know that it will speak to yours too...
"Towards The Sun"
[Chorus 2x:]
Turn your face towards the sun
Let the shadows fall behind you
Tell a prayer, just carry on
And the shadows will never find you
Lost in the rock and roll
Got lost in a promise of a love I never know
Shadows chase me far from home
I remember when my heart was filled with gold
And you know
I've been burned
I've been burned
I've been burned
You see me lose control
It's not worth
It's not worth
It's not worth
My soul
[Chorus]
Lost my faith and trust
You and I know gold don't turn to rust
I still swear that we can reign
Like the kings and queens of better yesterday
Don't you know
I've been burned
I've been burned
I've been burned
You see me lose control
It's not worth
It's not worth
It's not worth
My soul
[Chorus]
Where you gonna go
Where you gonna go
Where you gonna run to
When you get to the edge of the night
It's time you face the sky
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/31/16 05:17 PM
Ok, so where do I begin... Ok, first I've been good, Im pretty well detached from my W. I moved out the 1st of October, haven't really spoken to my my WW since then, other than about closing on the house which happened a couple of weeks ago. We've payed off all the bills and are living our separate lives, I see her occasionally at work, but don't talk. Honestly, I've had nothing to do with her, and I'm good with that. The few times I've seen her, I've given a glance, and just kept going about my day. Im much more friendly at work, I have lots of friends and she has none, so I spend time talking with people and she just walks by. I've really been enjoying myself at work.
I've also been spending a lot of time with old friends, fishing, BBQ'ng and just hanging out, as well as lots of time with family, we had a Halloween costume party where I dressed up as Ted, the teddy bear. My son didn't want to go to the party, but I text him a bunch of pictures of everyone and the decorations, and he had his mother drop him off about 2 hours after the party started, it was great that he showed up, but it made me a bit upset he showed up so late and didn't want to go at first. After the party he asked me to do something at his new place, so I went to help him, but seeing my old furniture, my dogs and him at his place kind of was like walking into my old life without me in it, so I fixed the stuff he asked me to and then I left asap, it was just too much. My WW was not home, or I would not of even gone.
So here's the part that's royally F'd up. I'm now the OM in an emotional A,. I don't know that she sees it as an emotional A, but I do and I just can't stop myself... I mentioned this girl awhile back, but there's a girl at work, she's younger and I'm completely attracted to her. At first I didn't know her R status, but after awhile found out about her getting M, about 3 weeks ago. There's nothing going on that is blatantly inappropriate, no I love you's or anything, but our communication is not something I would approve of in my marriage, there are the occasional innuendos which don't get shut down, but she does keep me at arms length. About a week ago I text her and told her that I couldn't keep talking to her sooo much, that I need to back away and focus on me (she works with me and WW and knows what's going on except for the A), she initially said ok, but then started confiding in me about all the stuff she's going through. I am having a very hard time not looking for her companionship, and she definitely gives me a big ego boost..
Jeez, what am I doing?
I've also been spending a lot of time with old friends, fishing, BBQ'ng and just hanging out, as well as lots of time with family, we had a Halloween costume party where I dressed up as Ted, the teddy bear. My son didn't want to go to the party, but I text him a bunch of pictures of everyone and the decorations, and he had his mother drop him off about 2 hours after the party started, it was great that he showed up, but it made me a bit upset he showed up so late and didn't want to go at first. After the party he asked me to do something at his new place, so I went to help him, but seeing my old furniture, my dogs and him at his place kind of was like walking into my old life without me in it, so I fixed the stuff he asked me to and then I left asap, it was just too much. My WW was not home, or I would not of even gone.
So here's the part that's royally F'd up. I'm now the OM in an emotional A,. I don't know that she sees it as an emotional A, but I do and I just can't stop myself... I mentioned this girl awhile back, but there's a girl at work, she's younger and I'm completely attracted to her. At first I didn't know her R status, but after awhile found out about her getting M, about 3 weeks ago. There's nothing going on that is blatantly inappropriate, no I love you's or anything, but our communication is not something I would approve of in my marriage, there are the occasional innuendos which don't get shut down, but she does keep me at arms length. About a week ago I text her and told her that I couldn't keep talking to her sooo much, that I need to back away and focus on me (she works with me and WW and knows what's going on except for the A), she initially said ok, but then started confiding in me about all the stuff she's going through. I am having a very hard time not looking for her companionship, and she definitely gives me a big ego boost..
Jeez, what am I doing?
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/31/16 06:13 PM
Hey C, thanks for checking in. And thanks for being so open about what you're dealing with.
You know there is no one more opposed to EAs/PAs than me...but that's not because I'm naive. I understand the pull.
When I was 31 I was promoted to a supervisor position. Suddenly I ran a team of 10, and a few of them were young women 24-26. Normally I am the reclusive one that struggles with self belief. All of a sudden I was interacting with these women daily, and in a sales department where my prowess was legendary and people treated me like a celebrity because I was so good, coming to me for advice and help, etc. Add in a minor MLC and a horrible period of my marriage and it was a perfect storm.
One of these women started impacting me way too much. If you put a video camera on me there wasn't anything wrong on the outside. Nothing was said or done that was inappropriate. But I FELT it. I felt the thrill when she showed up for work. I looked forward to our interactions, or from reading an email from her. She was in my mind way too long.
It was a weird limbo, because I tried to fight it, but I didn't fully recognize it as a 911 issue because nothing was happening. It was also all one sided, I don't think she felt the way I did. But I started to realize it was a serious issue for ME. So finally one day I told my then wife, my boss, and this woman...that I was starting to be distracted at work, that it wasn't right, and that my marriage came first and that I needed to do whatever it took to preserve that. I offered my resignation and told my wife that I'd do whatever was necessary to reinvest in the marriage.
As it turned out I was able to retain my job, and oddly enough this woman even stayed on my team. It was seriously odd that once I shone a light on it, it went away. And it was never an issue again. XW was mad at me, and I never understood why, because I thought I handled it with remarkable integrity. But she was resentful, and it made our marriage worse. Maybe even contributing to the end.
Anyway, I want you to know I get it. My thoughts on it are that you can't simply tell yourself not to feel that way. Not going to happen. In my experience I wasn't in control of my feelings. But you can control your behavior.
Again, in my case I was better off shining a light on it. I'd do something similar in your case. I'd explain to her that you've been acting inappropriately and that cannot remain emotionally intimate with a newly married woman. I'd mention that if the two of you couldn't terminate these exchanges on your own, you'd be forced to contact her husband and apologize to him too, knowing this would put an end to it. I'd wish her the best and walk away.
At this point either she'd quit approaching you, in which case this would die a clean death...or I'd touch base with her husband, and talk to him about YOUR part of the issues. I wouldn't bring HER up as being a willing recipient, I would just say that I was having inappropriate feelings and while I'd never act on them it would help to put a name with the face of her husband and come clean even while there was nothing to come clean about out of respect for him. I'd tell him he was a lucky man and to take good care of her. Then I'd cut bait.
Just a couple of thoughts. Bottom line, it is VERY tough, but it has to be done.
Keep us posted and take care C.
You know there is no one more opposed to EAs/PAs than me...but that's not because I'm naive. I understand the pull.
When I was 31 I was promoted to a supervisor position. Suddenly I ran a team of 10, and a few of them were young women 24-26. Normally I am the reclusive one that struggles with self belief. All of a sudden I was interacting with these women daily, and in a sales department where my prowess was legendary and people treated me like a celebrity because I was so good, coming to me for advice and help, etc. Add in a minor MLC and a horrible period of my marriage and it was a perfect storm.
One of these women started impacting me way too much. If you put a video camera on me there wasn't anything wrong on the outside. Nothing was said or done that was inappropriate. But I FELT it. I felt the thrill when she showed up for work. I looked forward to our interactions, or from reading an email from her. She was in my mind way too long.
It was a weird limbo, because I tried to fight it, but I didn't fully recognize it as a 911 issue because nothing was happening. It was also all one sided, I don't think she felt the way I did. But I started to realize it was a serious issue for ME. So finally one day I told my then wife, my boss, and this woman...that I was starting to be distracted at work, that it wasn't right, and that my marriage came first and that I needed to do whatever it took to preserve that. I offered my resignation and told my wife that I'd do whatever was necessary to reinvest in the marriage.
As it turned out I was able to retain my job, and oddly enough this woman even stayed on my team. It was seriously odd that once I shone a light on it, it went away. And it was never an issue again. XW was mad at me, and I never understood why, because I thought I handled it with remarkable integrity. But she was resentful, and it made our marriage worse. Maybe even contributing to the end.
Anyway, I want you to know I get it. My thoughts on it are that you can't simply tell yourself not to feel that way. Not going to happen. In my experience I wasn't in control of my feelings. But you can control your behavior.
Again, in my case I was better off shining a light on it. I'd do something similar in your case. I'd explain to her that you've been acting inappropriately and that cannot remain emotionally intimate with a newly married woman. I'd mention that if the two of you couldn't terminate these exchanges on your own, you'd be forced to contact her husband and apologize to him too, knowing this would put an end to it. I'd wish her the best and walk away.
At this point either she'd quit approaching you, in which case this would die a clean death...or I'd touch base with her husband, and talk to him about YOUR part of the issues. I wouldn't bring HER up as being a willing recipient, I would just say that I was having inappropriate feelings and while I'd never act on them it would help to put a name with the face of her husband and come clean even while there was nothing to come clean about out of respect for him. I'd tell him he was a lucky man and to take good care of her. Then I'd cut bait.
Just a couple of thoughts. Bottom line, it is VERY tough, but it has to be done.
Keep us posted and take care C.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/31/16 07:01 PM
I mentioned on my thread over I surviving how a family member of mine is having an affair with a married man. She is miserably married , and he is happily married, supposedly. It began as a work friendship such as yours which blew up into a full blown affair.
I know that ego boost feels good. I know you miss compaionship, but this is not the place to find it and I highly suggest you fully back away before you get into a situation you feel you can't walk away from.
I know that ego boost feels good. I know you miss compaionship, but this is not the place to find it and I highly suggest you fully back away before you get into a situation you feel you can't walk away from.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 10/31/16 09:30 PM
Are they married? If yes and you have any sense of right and wrong you will walk (no, run) away and not be that kind of guy.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 02:32 AM
Dude, do you really want to be the OM. Remember how you felt about your W's OM.
Right now if i learnt the girl i was chatting up with is in R i would nope the f out.
Right now if i learnt the girl i was chatting up with is in R i would nope the f out.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 04:04 AM
It's good to hear from you. I'm glad you had a great trip and a fun Halloween party.
About the co-worker, ask yourself if you would truly consider a woman who is just three weeks into her M and has already open a door to activating an A. After all, your W was in an EA, and you D her. Wouldn't it be hypocritical for you to be the OM in a like situation?
You are vulnerable, but you are not stupid. If this woman would emotionally cheat on her three week old groom.......she would cheat on you! That's just nuts.
About the co-worker, ask yourself if you would truly consider a woman who is just three weeks into her M and has already open a door to activating an A. After all, your W was in an EA, and you D her. Wouldn't it be hypocritical for you to be the OM in a like situation?
You are vulnerable, but you are not stupid. If this woman would emotionally cheat on her three week old groom.......she would cheat on you! That's just nuts.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 05:16 AM
I realize there are many points here for you to consider and must get the point by now. But you lost respect for your W for having an EA, right? Why would you have respect for a woman having an EA as a newlywed?
I know you'll do the smart and right thing. Stand tall for your convictions and find something else that feels good in the moment and is an ego boost right now if that's what you need. But not this.
I know you'll do the smart and right thing. Stand tall for your convictions and find something else that feels good in the moment and is an ego boost right now if that's what you need. But not this.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 06:37 AM
Zeus,
You nailed it (except for the approach her H part), there's not anything there but the feeling that it is more than it should be. From the outside there's nothing inappropriate, and prior to this experience I would have just said she was a fun / good friend. I call it an EA because of how I feel, I don't know if it is EA level on her side, but we definitely talk more than a M W should, but again, nothing inappropriate has happened. It's all about how I feel about it.
In no way am I saying that our friendship is right or that I am trying to justify it, because I know that it needs to stop, and definitely will not progress. I just need to figure out the best way for me to go about backing off. If something truly inappropriate happened, then it would be easy to use that as a conduit to make big changes, but in this case it's just all about joking around and conversing less, it's about me putting the focus back on me.
You nailed it (except for the approach her H part), there's not anything there but the feeling that it is more than it should be. From the outside there's nothing inappropriate, and prior to this experience I would have just said she was a fun / good friend. I call it an EA because of how I feel, I don't know if it is EA level on her side, but we definitely talk more than a M W should, but again, nothing inappropriate has happened. It's all about how I feel about it.
In no way am I saying that our friendship is right or that I am trying to justify it, because I know that it needs to stop, and definitely will not progress. I just need to figure out the best way for me to go about backing off. If something truly inappropriate happened, then it would be easy to use that as a conduit to make big changes, but in this case it's just all about joking around and conversing less, it's about me putting the focus back on me.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 07:30 AM
Come on, Coconut. You want us to think you don't know how to back off? Stop flirting with her. Stop sending messages with innuendos. Stop playing along with her and thinking it's just all in fun. Don't meet her at water fountain, or go to the break room when she's in there. Don't have coffee or lunch with her.
In other words, you don't have to say anything to her about your reasons for backing off. She's a married woman. Over and done, that settles it.
Btw, I applaud you for coming to the board with this update. We all experience some type of weak area at some point in our lives. I suppose that's what makes us human. The strength comes when we purposely do the right thing. Our emotions may be kicking and screaming while we do it, but our actions will lead. The emotions eventually follow the lead. That's what emotions do. Emotions are responders.
In other words, you don't have to say anything to her about your reasons for backing off. She's a married woman. Over and done, that settles it.
Btw, I applaud you for coming to the board with this update. We all experience some type of weak area at some point in our lives. I suppose that's what makes us human. The strength comes when we purposely do the right thing. Our emotions may be kicking and screaming while we do it, but our actions will lead. The emotions eventually follow the lead. That's what emotions do. Emotions are responders.
Re: What should I be doing (too little too late?) - 11/01/16 07:32 AM
Not judging you, but keep in mind that there may already be ways for her H to stumble upon evidence, like you did not that long ago.