WW Starting to talk again. Not sure if I want her.

Thread is there. You know what to do.

Surfer.

Silly question - what's she saying?

The "do I want her" question is one that I've been struggling with myself for some time now. After BD1 and especially after BD2 I was forced to take a good hard look at W and our past MR. Was there joy? Yes. Was there sorrow? Not a lot. I think that the best word that described it was "acceptable". Looking back there was a lot about W and our MR that I just accepted as part of the package. Some of it was pretty bad and had been for many years.

I presume Surfer that you have done the same hard thinking.

One thing that strikes me over and over again in this small pool of people we have here is how unlike it would seem the rest of the world when BD hits we feel that we need to continue to fight for our MR and our spouse and that in most of the cases I see here that our spouse doesn't demand an immediate D. I've been composing a post in my head for a week or so that I may let out someday about us - the proud, the few, the manipulated, the stupid

- jk

I thought I'd reply to you over at your new place

I'm not sure what you mean by using sex as a way of control. Like, he was trying to see if he had me where he wanted me, check I was still into him or something?

not sure how this all works. Is this a new thread? couldn't reply to you surfer?

Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by using sex as a way of control. Like, he was trying to see if he had me where he wanted me, check I was still into him or something?

Sex can be control. It's the strongest form of validation. Without doubt.

Surfer.

Quote:

not sure how this all works. Is this a new thread? couldn't reply to you surfer?

I hear you.

Surfer.

Quote:

contol/....validation.

He was trying to control - love (quasi). The feelings you expressed. Lust. Him. You. He controlled you. Did you instigate those feelings?

No.

Surffer.

Quote:

The "do I want her" question

Tricky.....but why are you here.

Surfer.

Surfer I hope your anniversary was not too miserable. Thanks for bearing your soul to us. We all understand being sad, hurt, missing your wife. Maybe you can't surf today, just float.... But this, Surfer, this is B.S.:

Originally Posted By: Surfer (from previous thread)

Inside though I just wonder. Why? Why am I really, truly, unlovable.

You are NOT unlovable. Please never ever judge your worth, your intelligence, your lovable-ness, whether or not you are a good dad, even your sanity, by the opinion of your wife. Her re-writing history, including your character, is a lie she has fabricated (perhaps unconsciously) to justify her bad behavior. Stop!

Cessna, yes, this is a new thread. The moderators lock people's threads when they have more than 100 posts on them; we're supposed to keep track of our own and start a new one when we reach that point. I'm glad Surfer hears you LOL!

Originally Posted By: Cherry

I'm not sure what you mean by using sex as a way of control. Like, he was trying to see if he had me where he wanted me, check I was still into him or something?

I agree with what Surfer is saying about your H using sex as validation and control. WW use sex as a way of control -- the guy I'm dating now told me that his wife, who was a WAW and never had an OM, used sex to control him towards the end of their marriage, ie if he did not buy her something she wanted or do what she wanted him to, she would not sleep with him. Do you think this is what your H was doing?

Originally Posted By: Surfer (previous thread)

MLC is different. If she is spewing she resents you. That's more WW.

Both MLcers and WWs (and WHs) spew like crazy

Originally Posted By: Andrew

Looking back there was a lot about W and our MR that I just accepted as part of the package. Some of it was pretty bad and had been for many years.

One thing that strikes me over and over again in this small pool of people we have here is how unlike it would seem the rest of the world when BD hits we feel that we need to continue to fight for our MR and our spouse and that in most of the cases I see here that our spouse doesn't demand an immediate D. I've been composing a post in my head for a week or so that I may let out someday about us - the proud, the few, the manipulated, the stupid jk

Ain't that the truth

I stood for my marriage for 5 years after the bomb, and so many of my co-workers and friends sat me down to tell me how "ridiculous" I was being. That hurt. Most of them, ironically, are bitter divorced women, who either filed for divorce the second they learned their husband had an OW or kicked their husbands out for some reason as stupid as Cessna's wife being angry because he made peas, Surfer's wife being angry because he put too much toothpaste on his kids toothbrushes, or my ex saying he did not love me anymore because I am too short.

None of our marriages were perfect, I bet. But us DBers are folks who believe in our vows, for better or for worse. And have decided to do everything we can to make our marriages work. I think it's sort of natural to waiver about whether we want them anymore or not. They sure don't make it easy, but we try to hold it together. It doesn't always work, it did not for me, but I think I'm a much better person for having tried, and that you are too!

Thank you Linda.

The sadness has not gone yet. I hoped it would. It will though. Just really struggling. I just need to give myself a serious kick!

I know you know he didn't stop loving you because of your height. Most guys find shorter women more attractive okay some may be attracted to giants. I don't know many guys that are. So that is definitely BS.

Surfer.

I'm not too sure to be honest, I think he just had urges and I was there. I've tried to not look into this too much. It doesn't change anything, he's still wayward and doesn't want me as his wife.

Sorry you are still feeling a bit sad, but don't be too hard on yourself, you know that you can do this. It's just a process and you're feeling a tad down. Totally normal so go easy on yourself. No big kicks, yes?

Didn't love you because you're too small? They really can pull out any excuse at times!

Thanks Cherry

I think I am starting to see though the anniversary horror. Or was! Until I saw WW Wcousin. What a nightmare convo. She repeatedly dug to 'needle' - repeating my WW's history rewriting. Asking really personal things. I think in mght have bitten my tongue off!!!!

I don't know I get the control from at times. My blood is boiling yet I do my best to be kind and serene.

Surfer.

Rosalinda. Your last post was awesome, succinct, and inspiring. We have been consistently told how bad we are (even making peas). But, we do have at least one redeeming quality. That's to fight for our marriage. Not everyone will endure this pain and hate for so long. This will be recognized by someone. Time creates change. I'm not giving up!

Cessna

Exactly. Don't give up hope. But you MUST let go. It's so hard. They suck you back in - or you do.

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

Thanks Cherry

I don't know I get the control from at times. My blood is boiling yet I do my best to be kind and serene.

Surfer.

Surfer, you do NOT have to be kind. You can be polite, and you can also be firm and unwavering. If you don't agree with the nonsensical crap being force fed you, you don't have to be kind about it. If your blood is boiling (and I KNOW how that feels) your best bet is to just say something that gets you out of the situation....

Thank you RSG. Legendary stuff.

We will all wobble.

When you do I hope to be there in the way you have for me today.

Surfer.

Hello Sitch watchers!

Coming through it now. It's awful when cycling happens.

I almost cried today. I know that seems like nothing to many, but as they say 'Boys Don't Cry", better IMHO to "keep on laughing, hiding the tears in my eyes".

Surfer.

So D8 has been with me today as she has not been so well. I could afford to take time from work.

I am still really, really hurting from Sunday's Wedding Anniversary. Anyway, W picked up D8 and took her home just now. I miss them all so much. Got on well with W talked for 10-15 mins or so and looked each other in the eyes. Fairly jovial discussion. I was acting 'as if' however. I am determined to lift my mood today. I know I am bordering on being depressed and I need to snap out of it.

S6 is going swimming today and W asked if I wanted to take him (she can sit with poorly D8 - she's not very poorly, just something mild). I questioned whether this is allowing her to eat cake or just the right thing to do. I think it's the right thing to do so I am going to take him.

When I bumped into my W's cousin yesterday - she spent her time validating my W's re-written history. I had to make my excuses and leave it really made my blood boil. It annoys me when people try and 'dig' into your situation particularly when they have an agenda. Best just forget that and realise she's not worth thinking about. She's one of those people that always has an arguement on the go....yes, forget about that I think.

As W and I seem to be talking better I often find myself confused. Is she being nice or is she detached. Then again, why mind read. I know I need to detach again and focus on positive self talk. I also need to stop overthinking and just be kind and nice to her.

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

So D8 has been with me today as she has not been so well. I could afford to take time from work.

I am still really, really hurting from Sunday's Wedding Anniversary. Anyway, W picked up D8 and took her home just now. I miss them all so much. Got on well with W talked for 10-15 mins or so and looked each other in the eyes. Fairly jovial discussion. I was acting 'as if' however. I am determined to lift my mood today. I know I am bordering on being depressed and I need to snap out of it.

S6 is going swimming today and W asked if I wanted to take him (she can sit with poorly D8 - she's not very poorly, just something mild). I questioned whether this is allowing her to eat cake or just the right thing to do. I think it's the right thing to do so I am going to take him.

I'm sorry about your wedding anniversary. Those firsts are hard, we know. Just let the feelings pass and then redirect yourself to something you enjoy. Glad you had a good conversation, acting as if worked.

Taking your son is not at all cake eating, it's co-parenting. Cake eating is more like watching the children and cooking dinner for WW while she goes out with OM. Or you fixing things around her place, or being her emotional support like a spouse is.

Don't be afraid or ashamed to cry, it's a tough time. If I cry, I do it when I'm alone so nobody sees. But don't hold it in, usually after a crying session you feel a lot better, like a valve has been released.

And I agree with painter, it's not cake eating, but co parenting. It's good that you can do things regarding the kids that help one another. But again with painter on cake eating would be taking care of them so she can go out with om.

You're doing great at this, you can't keep a good man down. Even though you're hurting you don't stay in the depths of despair, you pick yourself up and get back to it. Standing for your m is so honourable . We aren't taking the easy option by any means.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

Thank you RSG. Legendary stuff.

We will all wobble.

When you do I hope to be there in the way you have for me today.

Surfer.

No problem mate! It's hard in the moment, trust me. But being kind probably makes you even angrier.

You may or may not know, but I loathe the term "coparenting." Anyway, spending time with your child is always right! If you're like me, spending time with them, even if you're just overseeing them entertain them entertaining themselves, does amazing things for your mind, body and soul.

And, let out a cry. I had to learn. When you suppress emotions, especially the pain associated with a cry, it comes out later in much worse fashion. Just let it happen, and let it go. It won't last forever!

You're doing well, keep fighting!!

Ha RSG I admit I kinda agree on the coparenting thing. It's almost, but not quite as bad as that whole Chris Martin and Gwynth Paltrows "consciously uncoupling" I mean wtf, just say your divorcing- don't wrap it up to sound like some in new trend.. Anyhow.

But yup, agree with RSG. I have dealt with many situations in my life that I had to deal with all at once because I suppressed my feelings so hard I locked them away thinking it made me less of a person or weak to cry. Maybe I still do it to a degree. But I had a good cry last week so I think I let a lot out. The next day, I was calmer, had more clarity and accepted this what happening and to step another step away from him.

We all do want our spouses back to a degree I think. But like you've said to me, not like this we don't. Even if they ran back now, without the work, we'd all be a tad resentful for what we've been through that it'd never work. I know deep down I do love my wh, of course I do. But I also know he's hurt me deeply.

I hope swimming was good anyway. Being around these children bring us true joy and love. I remember the second my S was handed to me, I got such a rush of love, a kind I've never felt in my life, the kind that you know you'd do anything to protect them, hell I think I'd even kill for him. This is what I'm focused on for the next few months, carrying this little one and being handed a little person that right this minute is unaware of how loved he/she really is. Enjoy them, every minute. You are an absolutely amazing dad, truly. And so hands on, not every dad is like that, so be proud of yourself. You're protecting them so well and not for a second making them feel they are unloved

RSG, Painter, Cherry,

Thank you for the very supportive words.

Didn't end up shedding a tear but the firsts are certainly hard. That being said my sadness has moved almost fully now - felt like borderline depression. Decided I need to gym more. It always helps when I go and have not been there for ages. I remember forcing myself to run in the midst of those horrible co-habiting days it helped. I was sooooooo screwed up though. Nights of spew, rage followed by no sleep then fear in the morning as I acted as if I was cheerful when inside I felt depressed and mentally unhinged. Glad that period is over.

Took S6 swimming then we went for dinner with his pals from swimming. All good fun. Their Nan came too so it was nice just to have an adult chat. And just single glass of wine. Need to pack the binge drinking in - ir never works. Now on tea!

D8 is fine although her infection has spread and W suggested taking her to hospital. I said I'd be happy to bring S6 home or take her to H. She asked about what I though and had more co-parenting chats about tomorrow, the weekend etc. W is taking kids on my day to do something she booked a long time ago. I decided that was okay - it's about them ultimately.

W talked a lot to me today, both had lots of eye contact and I validated subtly, but kindly. She seems to be responding kindly back and even asked if I had eaten and I said no she offered me some pizza. I declined, not really eaten since anniversary. It won't last - my appetite is returning.

I will look after D8 again tomorrow after dropping S6 to school. Looking forward to it. Will have to fit in some work thought as today I have been a little tardy on that front.

Thanks for the points on co-parenting and yes it is a cr@p phrase. I don't thin W has an OM now. So if she starts works not back to show respect the opportunity to piece remains. I won't hold my breath......but it's possible. There was certainly respect today - lots of and no disrespect.

Watch this space, but not expecting anything although I am aware of my mind reading and future forecasting. Need to keep that in check.

A few more minutes of cuddle and Lego Star Wars then bed for S6.

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

Decided I need to gym more. It always helps when I go and have not been there for ages. I remember forcing myself to run in the midst of those horrible co-habiting days it helped. I was sooooooo screwed up though. Nights of spew, rage followed by no sleep then fear in the morning as I acted as if I was cheerful when inside I felt depressed and mentally unhinged. Glad that period is over.

I hear you Surfer....the gym has helped me out tremendously!!! Thank goodness those days are over for me as well...ugh...it was so tough and painful! Hang in there!!

Surfer, your W's cousin so had an agenda to go and report back to your W. So sneaky! You did well to not give her what she wanted!

I think I would be more worried if you didn't have a little melt down on such an important day as your wedding anniversary, you are human.

((Surfer))

Thanks Hawker. It amazes me that behavioral patterns are so similar.

Surfer.

Thank Coly. Yes, v sneaky. It's part of the nature of some. Those that thrive on always having an arguement, a fight to pick, they struggle to bond unless they are doing so through being a victim or through 'the enemy of my enemy stuff'. I also think there is a jelousy in this type of bahaviour too. Often validation by others rather than self validation is key and if they were to loose the validator they loose out on being 'valid'. There is almost a greedy need to them. Dangerous. They hate it when you with love and kindness and exit without giving them anything. I touched her arm after say 6-8 attempts to needle and said "ah well must got off, bye". She was

...(oops) fuming.

I often think of this song when I deal with this kids of person or the type that wants to blow your candle out to make theirs burn brighter.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9pcqg2aoGgo

Surfer.

'Kind'

W just called and we spoke for 15mins about D8. Been to hospital. She is fine. Did lots of validating and thanked her for taking her and for updating me. We talked about plans for tomorrow and her frustration with D8 being unwell. Basically down to school not giving her the correct plaster (band-aids) on a small abraision. She has a massive allergy to adhesive it brings her out in sceptic blisters. Poor thing, anyway she is fine and I will look after her tomorrow so W can go to work - I am more flexibile like that with my work.

W seems to be genuinely more communicative bad greatful. She is definately not resentful or disrespectful at present. This could change of course. If anything I am just pleased for this so the kids can see us talk kindly. Lovingly even to each other.

Who knows where we will end up with this journey.

Surfer.

Glad your d is okay

but poor thing with the blisters. Not pleasant!

Glad that wife is being somewhat more open and kind. Funnily enough wh is tonight. Texting me and checking up on me.. is there something in the air. Just remain cautiously optimistic. I know it's easy to get more excited and look into these new actions but just remember how quick they can change. We just need to carry on with our journey like we have. And if at some point they want to join us. They will.

Cherry. I think you are right. Carry on and stay positive. Not sure I am naive enough to even be cautiously optimistic. Having dropped off D8 this morning W had a tiny bit of vexed about her. Didn't come across at me, but perhaps I am reading into things. I think my point is, I am often one that reads into - why did she say this etc stuff. But not today. She has gone to work and I will look after D8. Then both kids will sleep over. Also I have them for the weekend which is great.

Ineed to have zero expectations and detach fully still. Just stay focused on the kids and work.

Surfer.

I have been inspired some great quotes from Zeus below. I have adapted them as they work better for my mind this way:

NEGATIVITY occurs when adversity makes it difficult to cope. Negativity continues until a coping strategy is instigated (by adapting). Prolonged negativity can lead to frustration, resentment, rage, rebellion, hate etc.

VENTING occurs due to negativity. However, by adapting to the negativity (changing, accepting, detaching etc) the stages that follow prolonged negativity need not develop. Peace can be restored.

Answer: Venting - Good, Negativity - OK, Prolonged Negativity - Bad. Adapt, Accept, Detach, Move on - Perfect.

Hope this helps.

Surfer.

Had quiet an easy day today. Bit of childcare, but of work, bit of sunbathing - presently by the outdoor pool at the gym soaking up some rays. It's 3.30pm and 82 degrees in September so time for a staff GAL session. I'm. Good boss like that LoL. Going to fit in a run or swim then some food shopping, housework, cooking, more work and perhaps a late evening drink we will see.

Life has wriggled back to a happy norm. My D8's foot seems to be slowly improving and kids were happy when they left this morning.

W cane to pick them up. She was late and disorganised. Often a sign she is about to crumble and loose it. She nearly did, but she kept it together.

I have been using a lot more validation recently. She has been calling me much more. Whilst I like this, I do think she is perhaps also coming to terms with the fact that if she pulls the rip chord (D) she gets the label of home wrecker and also gets a much more stressful life and will be comfortable with a paid for house but mnimal financial support otherwise.

All of this latter part is pointless mindreading so I am just going to continue with what seems to be working and stay away from what seems not to - as that seems to be providing the right results for the kids.

I am in a happy place today. I want to stay with this. I know cycling takes time to go fully. But I can live with that.

Surfer.

I like your simplified version of negativity and venting. And you're right- note the negativity, adapt, change, detach and move on.

Sounds like you have had a great day. And it sounds like your GAL efforts are helping to get you into a better place. And good job on stopping the mind reading, observe but don't dwell. If they want to dig themselves out of this hole, they will do. In the meantime, we are living the life of divorcees. We are managing and getting on with life and starting to live our lives and find ourselves. And while you're at it, you're a kick ass dad! You're doing a great job!

Thanks Cherry you are a kick ass Mum too!

Keep up the good work. We just need to focus on not slipping back now - or at least as little as possible. It's about stability to some degree. Stay on track and refine your course.

You are doing great.

Surfer.

Journaling to close out a little anxiety.

So about 10 days ago W told me she tickets already booked for something. It's on my day with kids (Sunday), but it's something they would love. I took the higher ground (rather than saying it's unfair to interfere with my time) and said she should take them (she did say I could take them - she would not have wanted me to go along too - so I didn't offer that option). But she had made the effort and that felt like the right thing to do. So she is taking them. She then said, can I take them to something after for a bit. Again I agreed. They will be gone between 10-2pm.

There were stories about how her wayward friends could not make it as the timing was wrong/tickets were not available etc. I thought okay? She knows I don't like her friend - perhaps she is trying to reassure.

She left a VM for me today, to see if the tickets had come here today - which is very late for something she booked ages ago (and prior to 10 days ago). She mentioned tickets for one of her wayward friends - one that lied to me about her EA and the one that couldn't make it, one of three I don't like. I just validated. I know I am mind reading - but this feels like one of those lies potentially.....I will maintain my composure. I will not say anything.

I think I am noticing one of my faults. It's that I tend to look for the worst. It's not a good trait. What I also do is use my great BS detector. It's rarely wrong. But if you spend enough time looking for a lie, you will find one too. I need to work out how to deal with this. There is a fine balance in being treated like a fool and setting yourself up for a fail - via an argument that didn't need to take place.

Also, there is a need not to give a sh!t. Okay, you are getting on together. Which is not bad - certainly for the kids. It's good. However, why give a sh!t what she is up to? I perhaps need to detach more and just do the okay - enjoy it thing!!

I guess I am also still uncomfortable with my W being out with waywards without her wedding ring on (and trying to hide what she is doing with them). In the meantime, I am being 'nice'. I am doing this for the sake of my kids - but there's an element in it for her too. Tricky - when you want to say; stay away from them, they are misguiding you.

You need to be nice, to become get along - without being nice/friendly you are fooling yourself. There will be no relationship. If you don't you are not giving your relationship a chance.

I guess also, if you are being treated badly. Set a boundary. If you are not, don't try to.

I still have ongoing trust issues and I need to work on them. I also simply do not like her friends and 'influencers' at all.

I think I need to stop overthinking. Let her GAL. You can't control your S. Let go.

I would welcome any thoughts.

Surfer.

Ha ha. Just 4 posts up - Adapt, Accept, Detach, Move on (but first a little vent to get it off your chest).

So what. She is going to GAL. I am not going to act like her H. I am however, going to insist that I take them to the door of the venue when they go as D8 in on crutches and the car park is miles away. I will pick them up also.

Surfer.

No expert here Surfer, but that's how I would handle it. Those husband bashers have a lot of clout. It's amazing how accurate your BS meter gets with age. I believe I'm batting 99.9%. At least with my wife.

I would be interested to hear of anyone who has seen their wife move away from the husband bashing friends.

Surfer.

I think the more you busy yourself with GAL the easier the not caring what they are up to gets easier. I haven't a clue where my wh is, the majority of the time I don't care neither. In his head we are d, and I guess we live completely separate lives. I've had to pull myself away from those thoughts for my own mental wellbeing, as living in the same house- it would drive me insane as he is never home! You've been doing great, you just need another little step back. Nothing we can do or say will stop them, if anything it would push them further to rebel against us. Just focus on you and do what you believe serves your best interests.

With the wayward friends, after the PA and his return, he dropped them- realised they were no good for him. But now he's found some new ones. Eventually they will probably come to a realisation when that person really lets them down and isn't there for them. They're attracted to them now as they make them feel good about them, I don't know if that kind of negativity could last or stand the test. She may well have a realisation moment but how/if/when that would happen, no one could answer.

Just keep focussed on you, she's too toxic to get sucked into right now! There is different schools of thought on the be pleasant/friendly vs full protection no friendliness. And I guess that all comes down to what works for you. I'm pleasant enough to my wh- but if I feel he is taking advantage of cake eating, I pull back. Likewise if I'm feeling a little angry/upset, I just avoid without making it obvious. It all boils down to what works and keeping consistency. Would you want to be with someone being moody, ignoring you, nasty?! I wouldn't, it would justify actions if anything. Just my 2 cents though. I know the tough love thing works for some, and can help the ws come to their senses when they feel the loss of their S. so long as you don't allow her to cake eat, or loose respect, just do what works.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

I think I am noticing one of my faults. It's that I tend to look for the worst. It's not a good trait. What I also do is use my great BS detector. It's rarely wrong. But if you spend enough time looking for a lie, you will find one too. I need to work out how to deal with this. There is a fine balance in being treated like a fool and setting yourself up for a fail - via an argument that didn't need to take place.

Also, there is a need not to give a sh!t. Okay, you are getting on together. Which is not bad - certainly for the kids. It's good. However, why give a sh!t what she is up to? I perhaps need to detach more and just do the okay - enjoy it thing!!

Did you ever hear the quote �If you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will"? Either Abraham Lincoln or Polly Anna said it, I'm not sure which. I think it's true, and always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and believe what they are saying....until they have proven to be big fat liars, then it's sort of hard to ever believe them again.

Nothing wrong with having a highly tuned BS detector. But you don't seem like the kind of guy who goes around looking for the worst. Were you always like this, or has the trusting part of your soul been kicked out of you one lie at a time?

You're right about needing to be more detached. It's great that you and your wife are being cordial, especially for your children. You'll get to the point where you don't care what she's up to one of these days. It takes time. Stop being so hard on yourself!

Thanks Cherry, I am quite fine, just hate the feeling of her friends stirring up problems. She does it her self too in fairness. She could shut it down. Also I don't like the feeling of being too nice. Then again provided it's for the best of the kids (only) then I don't mind that. Fully dark or cold and being seen by the kids is not good.

I think l stick with what I am doing.

Thanks.

Surfer.

Thanks Linda

I totally agree in always look for the silver lining in fairness. I am naturally a cheerful optimist. I take people as I find them. I guess your point about "until they have proven a lie" is very true. However, with a WS they lie and you hear those lies and see evidence so often (OW/OM) stuff. Lies to disrespect etc. It gets to even the most forgiving, rational and optimistic of us at times. It does get kicked out one piece at a time, but I am too resilient for that. It keeps coming back! So that's why I am feeling like that. It's temporary. It won't touch my core optimism.

The always planning for the worse or expecting it, I am a little like this at times, again, not always. But I do need to take a chill pill on it. Not biggie, just observing some faults. I don't have many major ones TBH. I have worked on so many for so long. Slowly getting there. Hopefully she sees that but if not I am good with that.

Thank you for dropping by.

Surfer.

So worked all day. Concentration is terrible at the moment. Need to get that sorted.

Picked up the kids, spent the day nipping in and out of the kitchen to make Spagetti Bolognase from scratch. Kids ate it all so must have been good. I am going to do a shortbread based cheesecake with summer fruit with S6 shortly as W takes D8 to hospital for a check up. Cooking is part of my GAL.

Had a very decent chat with W last night when dropping kids off. Invited in etc whilst she got them ready. She always knows when I am coming but is never ready. House was very untidy. She's not very tidy in fairness. And the kids are kids, but you have to keep on top of it and get them involved.

So chat went well but TBH I just wanted to get out of there after 15 mins or so as I find her uncomfortable to listen to for long periods of time. At present I just don't trust what she is saying - her conversation breaks down into.:

- moaning about something (I validate rather than saying what I think - stop manning about unimportant things, GAL, be genuinely happy - you control this!!!)
- telling you what you need to do (things that you know, I validate rather than revealing my real)
- telling you what she thinks about something (I don't often see eye to eye with this, so guess what, I validate).

I validate because I think it helps right now. But nobody wants a yes man so I am going to flip to challenging her, nicely, soon as always being like this drives me numb.

Part of this of approach is about her feelings and my listening is facilitating her sharing, little by little, which is helping her as I validate how she feels but - crikey I find it hard. I am very black and white in my mind and this stuff drives me mad when I am not in the mood for it.

I always make sure I look good,casual but good when she turns up. She turned up looking nice today and has for the last week - not sure who that's for, her, me etc. Not sure I care really.

As W has taken D8 for her appointment we will bake cheesecake. Just having a cuddle whilst S6 watches something on the iPad. We love our boy days we play computer games, make things, draw, be a bit lazy. When both are with me they will either play or we will go out and do something. Bike ride, swimming cinema, bowling etc. It's a bit chilly today and given D8 is on crutches we will be having an easy day. I think I might take them out for dinner tonight. Not sure.

W seemed a bit 'lost' today when she picked up D8. Just tinge of it in her. I think she struggles when there is nobody to talk to at home.

I am not wearing my ring today. My DB Coach recommends it....seems Normal.

Not much more to add really. State of mind - content and relaxed. Kids are good. Wife slightly 'lost'. Ambitions - none, mildly anxious that she is not pushing mediation forward but hey. Do I want to get back together. Not at the moment.

Surfer.

Question. So finances are protected by passwords - apart from �75k which my W has access to. She has only withdrawn �30k. I am also paying her monthly sum broadly equivalent (potentially slightly more) to what the law requires. She is financially okay for now, has plenty of new clothes so do the kids, gets out and on holiday as do the kids, just bought furniture etc. But she needs to move forward - either progress the D or reconcile. I don't want myself or the kids hanging on in here. 'Limbo'. But I won't push anything right now.

Not sure what to do. I could write to her via L and ask her if she is going to progress 'her' Mediation (I have filled out forms, she has not - 3 months on...). Could also advise that she must not withdraw the additional �45k as she has a monthly sum coming in - which is not being spent it seems? Sit tight? Not sure.

Any experience in this field people? If not, any thoughts?

Surfer.

Do what you need to do to protect the 45k.
So by what you wrote that is how much is now in the account?

I do not live in UK but You have given her 30k and unless you have a legal agreement protecting it she now is entitled to half the balance or could just spend it all.

Do not trust her.

You can validate without agreeing or being a yes man.

The coach said not to wear ring? Was this to show you are moving on or why?

Even if you have other finances, listen to cadets advice.

If your W wants back and you don't,she will change into someone you may want back. Maybe she is not interesting to you now, but she may not be the same person later.

Best wishes

Quote:

The coach said not to wear ring? Was this to show you are moving on or why?

To see how she reacted. Nothing really. A bit friendlier and then more detached. Not sure if it means anything. Seems like game playing to me. Not a massive fan.

Surfer.

Thanks Cadet and Roist. Much Appreciated.

RE: "Even if you have other finances, listen to cadets advice". I hear you. The only way I can stop her is through a L letter. This will make her come to the table on mediation. It was her choice to mediate but I really would like my W back. However, I really don't want this person. I guess I might as well look at it S exorcism. IDK.

If she is staying still I need to get her to advise what we are 'now' doing. Before, S and D (her choice) now nothing. Just nothing. It's not helpful for me or the kids.

I would welcome any thoughts. From anyone with knowledge or an opinion that is familiar with DB principles.

Thank you.

Surfer.

Wow, she's already had and spent �30K?! That's like my annual salary! As far as I'm aware and what my L has told me, that unless any pre-nup/agreement to say otherwise, she is entitled to 50% of everything. I was told that I need to bring forward any bank statements, assets ie property, even my pension! I'm hoping that as my wh and I are (sometimes, but not at the moment) on speaking terms that we can agree to just keep what we have individually, I have no desire to take half of everything of his, however if he is going to attempt this on me, I will have to protect myself!

I am unbelievably tired right now so I can't think to straight to give any great advise. I guess db-ing advises us to avoid r talks at any cost, but I guess if it is causing you some confusion, then it may be an opportunity. Just ask yourself a couple questions, are you in any kind of rush? And are you prepared in the instance that she then goes to file?

Stay strong amigo, you're doing good. And just a side note, a man who can cook is very attractive!

Thanks Cherry. Not sure the whole 30k has gone in 4 months but I need to take control. I gether from her spew today she is pushing mediation now - her lovely cousin (the one I mentioned) is pushing her.

Yes. Got a dinner party on Tuesday. Mmmm not sure what to do. Might do Thai Green Curry or Paella. Probably a chicken paella.....

I think I am almost done with DB. It seems to be going nowhere. Sadly.

Take care and thank you.

Surfer.

Surfer don't do it. Roller coaster. Time. Hang in there bud. Give me your thoughts on my post yesterday. I'm going to have to reply soon. Stay the course!

Ooh a chicken paella sounds great!

I agree with Cessna, another big dip on the roller coaster. Stay onboard- you're doing good. Hang in there!

Sorry. I've had enough. I will still use principles and practices to protect me and the kids. But I don't want her or this anymore. Mediation will now happen. I am not spending the rest of my life trying to reconcile with such a vile person. Why would I want to?

No too much has happened. Yesterday just showed me, again, just exactly how manipulative she is.

I need to stop trying to change the course she has chosen. I need to totally let this happen and let her feel the struggle of hard life with zero support, hard times financially, no time to do what she wants - when she wants. She can feel like a mum that is running around trying to fit in kids, ironing, cleaning, chores, school, clubs, making ends meet with no emotional support only financial and emotional support for the kids. I will pay my way and will give her a large enough settlement. But I am done.

She is not coming back. She has chosen her path. I am done.

I don't think I could even believe her if she spent 6 months to a year or more of showing she get her failings and working on them.

I need to be separate from her. She is damaging.

Surfer.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

I need to be separate from her. She is damaging.

Surfer.

This is ok.

Maybe it will help with more detachment.

I think you need to rethink what DBing is.
Use a beginner's mind.
DBing is NOT waiting, standing is not STILL.

I think I am almost done with DB. It seems to be going nowhere. Sadly.

Surfer,

What do you mean by this?
I have concern that there are missing part to your understanding of what DB is truely for us.

Might you elaborate what you mean by,
Being done?
It going no where?

Do you thin she is driving the roller coaster?
Or might you be driving it?

Surfer,

Stay calm and have patience.
They do come out of it eventually, you just have to wait.
A midlife crisis lasts between 2-5 years in women, please keep reminding yourself that every time you become impatient.
Hugs.

Ive transititioned from DBing to win her back to working on me irregardless if we get back together or not.

Originally Posted By: Surfer

She is not coming back. She has chosen her path. I am done.
I need to be separate from her. She is damaging.

We are at the same place.

Sadly.

Most divorces don't get busted. We all know that. There has been just too much damage or one party is too dysfunctional. Yes, by all means, let's cope, let's recover, let's improve ourselves ... but we're not busting anything.

I want to point out that it is written all over the place that a crisis can last from 3-5 years and that this timeline applies to both men and women. However, over the years, we have seen a crisis last far longer than what has been posted over the years. I, personally, don't put much stock in the 3-5 years timeline. I put stock in the person who is experiencing the crisis returning to a normal, mature individual. The crisis will take as long as it takes and it could be 3, 5, 7 or even longer and some can remain stuck. Sometimes it can be shorter, but rarely have we seen this. The timeline is based upon how many times the person hits the brick wall and finally steps back and learns the lessons he/she needs to learn as well as facing his/her issues. Once in crisis, you can't rush the process. If you do rush it, or attempt to snap them out of it, they will go back into crisis at a later time and it will be far worse than the first time around. Their clocks are very, very slow and they lose track of time, etc.

So, do yourself a favor and take the 3-5 year timeline w/a grain of salt. It's all up to the person experiencing a crisis as to when he/she determines when it's over and I would hate to see you still sitting here 3 years from now still looking out your window to see if he/she's done.

I also want to point out that if and when they do wake up, there is no guarantee that the person will be the same person you knew pre-crisis. Some come out of the fog very settled/mature, some come of the "fog" and keep a few of the traits that they exhibited during the crisis and then there are others that will be totally different personality wise. So, it's a wait and see to see who actually returns to the real world.

This is the time to focus on you and do the things that you've put off doing for years and a time to learn new things. If there are things that you need to do to improve yourself, do them for you and not to win her back. Be sure that you are happy w/whatever changes that you make. Whatever changes you make, they must become permanent or she'll know that you only made the changes to get her attention and convince her to come back into the relationship.

Most importantly, continue moving forward. Life is far too short to sit in one spot. You can always leave the door ajar, but continue to live your life to the fullest. If she wakes up, she will have to do the hard/necessary work to earn your trust and become transparent in all that she does in order to gain your trust again. But...that's a ways down the road.

Surfer, how are you doing?

I have worry for you at this time......
I pray that you are doing okay.

'A midlife crisis lasts between 2-5 years in women'
I have no idea where this came from but I can say it's not true. You want to move on. Go ahead and become a better man and father.

Thank you all.

I am okay. Just struggling. Recently we were getting on lot's better, then someone interfered and has stoked up bad feeling in my W again. W spewed and it got me like a nasty sucker punch. I'll rebuild and detach. I am going to have to stop all hope of this ever reconciling though. I need to see DB as being about me and the kids. It can't be about her, it's too disappointing.

My three big dislikes are lies, manipulation and interference from stirring parties (OM/W, friends, family etc) - we all get these - I had all 3 of these with the spew.

I need to detach to stop the lies hurting and set boundaries for the manipulation. I also need to realise that I can't stop the stirring or the propaganda/re-written history that comes from it - I just need to let that go.

She is moving towards D with mediation now (following the stirring advice). Got to see the positives in this, but right now I am confused. I will clear my head later - exercise and then GAL.

Surfer.

We all get the spew and anger. You can get over it. If you can't handle it, then sign off on the papers and end it. It won't stop the anger though and your resentment, hatred and anger will build.

Time to crack on with being a better version of me.

Surfer.

MrBond/Job/Cadet/Cessna/Cherry/CLD/SH/ForGump/Natus thank you for your recent posts and ongoing support.

Got to take the positives. I have moved on from the drastic weight loss period of massive anxiety. That horror story period where you can't even focus - that period that passes but you can't see that it ever will. You don't even remember who you are. I am just so pleased about this. That means I have moved forward. I CAN and WILL, keep moving forward.

I am not giving up on DB principles and practices for that might mean I do not fully adjust to the best version of me, which I need to see and my children need to see (they obviously don't know I have "wobbled" - nobody but you guys do).

- I will start re-read DB later.
- Gym this afternoon.
- I am having some of my W's family over for dinner tonight (some that won't fall in line with re-written history) and that will help with GAL. Not going to talk too much about her and if I do I will be generous and kind about her finest attributes. I am not going to focus on the negatives. It's never good.

Thank you all so, so much. I really do appreciate it.

Surfer.

MrBond,

I can get over the anger and spew. You are spot on. Done it before.

Quote:

If you can't handle it, then sign off on the papers and end it. It won't stop the anger though and your resentment, hatred and anger will build.

I don't hate my W. I don't even resent her. I resent historic events, I don't hate them though but I guess you are right if not now I may feel this way if I don't deal with this situation correctly (not big on hating though I must admit).

In terms of me saying "I am done" - I don't mean I am going to go for a D I mean I am done with being 'hurt', but that's garbage. What I really should have said is I am done with 'this' - letting myself get hurt.

It is my W that is pushing for mediation and D, sadly. I can't really stop her going for a D - so at some point I will have to sign off on the papers - if she goes that far. Being able to handle that will be a matter of necessity rather than choice. In my heart I hope she does not. It's just a very frustrating period - perhaps you can tell!

S6 is talking about us getting back together like it's a possibility bless him. They are hurting too.

Time to refocus. Strong, coping and moving forward with a positive confidence and kindness to my W.

Thank you.

Surfer.

Quote:

Or might you be driving it?

At times it's me - we both drive this train. I have been really much better recently. I need to remember I am neither a fairground ride operator or a passenger.

Thank you.

Surfer.

Quote:

Most divorces don't get busted. We all know that. There has been just too much damage or one party is too dysfunctional. Yes, by all means, let's cope, let's recover, let's improve ourselves ... but we're not busting anything.

I agree, with the exception that you may not DB to get her back, but you can DB to get you back.

Quote:

Ive transititioned from DBing to win her back to working on me irregardless if we get back together or not.

- thanks Natus.

You may also get a better relationship with your W - or the person that she has become. See Job's post (above). Thanks Job.

Most of all - keep your chin up Chap! We all get dragged down by this at times. It's easy to have short or longer terms wobbles.But perhaps the key is to focus on you - I know you know this and so do I; but sometimes we forget. I did for a day or so.

Keep it up for you (and S8 & D13)!!

Surfer.

Glad to see you are not done with working on you. My wh has filed and the papers are drawn up. There isn't anything I can do to stop it, and it isn't what I want. But I, like you, shall continue to db to make the best me I possibly can. The best version of us for whatever may come my way!

Cherry, sorry to hear that. It is so strange, the behavior you have recently seen and I am seeing. I wonder if it's them knowing what they are about to do is the final cut to the marriage - after so many cuts (by both parties). I wonder if they try to make that final go in their minds or its just confusion. There I go overthinking again. The reality is you will never make sense of this fully. The LBS may never also. How strange.....

Keep your chin up.

Surfer.

Oh Surfer, I'm sorry you became discouraged for a bit. But you knew this all the whole time, that DBing is for you, to become the best person you can be. DBing gives us our best chance of reconciliation, but it is mainly to keep from becoming bitter depressed people. It's SO easy to get sucked into self pity and anger when the person we loved and trusted the most in the world kick us to the street like a piece of worthless garbage, and usually feel compelled to spread a bunch of lies about us to justify their actions to boot.

I fell for the "MLC lasts 3 to 5 years" lie too. I think my ex's MLC started in 2007, although I did not get the bomb drop until 2009. It'll be 9 years this November, and there is still no sign he is coming out of it yet.

Most LBS here do eventually move on, I think, especially those upon whom divorce has been forced by their spouse. I think most of the LBS eventually get to the point where you are, where they are "done" with their marriage due to their spouse's toxicity. If, as Job says, your wife snaps out of it and does a LOT of work on herself, maybe you will be in an emotional state where you are willing to take her back. Maybe she will not ever do the work to catch up with you. Sad, but quite possible. No matter what the future brings, you will be sane and healthy and strong and healed, and your kids will have their beloved rock of a dad to depend on.

In the meanwhile, I just want to let you know that I think you are awesome. Carry on!

Quote:

and your kids will have their beloved rock of a dad to depend on.

In the meanwhile, I just want to let you know that I think you are awesome. Carry on!

Well Linda, what lovely words. Thank you. I don't often get glassy eye'd like that!!

You are inspirational - going through all of this for someone you can't give up on. If only all spouses had your conviction. It's a quality I find endearing - to hear someone say, "no matter what you are going through, I will never give up on you" is amazing to me.

Please don't forget how rare and special you really are.

Surfer.

Well after last weeks major wobble I am back in steady mode. It's strange how you can be totally happy and accepting of everything. Happy with yourself and your life and a little switch gets flicked. Usually by someone else's words or actions and the 'fear' of the situation takes you on a very unpleasant journey. I will no doubt experience this again, but as of now I have peace again. There were times when I was literally unable to function - I am glad they have gone.

So where am I in my story. I guess I am in a place where my W and I can spend time in each other's company without feeling the need to run for the hills. I see her and the kids every day during the week (she drops them and I take them to school). They stay every Weds and every other Friday - Sunday. Custody is a little fluid still but it's okay. The kids are happy and that's the main thing.

I do hope we can reconcile but I am happy as things are too so I have a win win right now.

I am 99.99% sure there is no OM at all. My W is not angry so much now and seems to be calming and becoming more friendly. It's two steps forward one step back, but we are seeing progress. Without any doubt. If that progress results in a better R as separated parents that will do. Because that provides more stability for the kids.

My DB Coach (on my final and 6th session) made it clear to me that whilst saying no to some things (if there you are being dumped on etc) is fine you need to focus on kindness. Because kindness and love will foster better relationship. If you don't improve your relationship you can grow again as a couple. I think this is true. It all feels rather simple at this stage. You can't grow seeds unless the ground is good etc. As you grow you want your Spouse to grow so your lives become intertwined in healthy soil etc. The toxic environment you had before was not good, but this new environment can be.

I am still wearing my ring. My W is not. But that's okay. It's just a ring. My W is still being counselled by her wayward friends but not seem to be spending so much time with them. Although that might be just that I don't hear of it. I hope in time she will tire of them. She may not of course. But if she wants that path then fine.

My W keeps providing me with suggestions for things to do when I have the kids. They often have birthday parties etc, there are also football matches to take them too. For now, I am going along with these suggestions but I do need to forward plan a little more so I can actually fit in a few things that they would like to - it will be a bit of a 180 really. I usually take the passenger role in these things as my W has historically dealt with trips and holidays. I took them away for a little holiday recently and we all loved it so I am going to focus on the next school holidays and get organised.

Sorry I just realised I am ramblng a little and not sure if this helps!

My W booked a theatre event a while ago and took the kids last Sunday - I felt this was fair even though it was 'my weekend' as such. Doing this was kind and in response she has asked if I would like to take the kids somewhere this Saturday 'her weekend' as I have not seen them so much. She suggested the cinema. I am going to take her up on the offer as any chance to spend time with the kids is good. It also gives me a little 'hi' time with my W which is probably good. These tiny good connections help.

I used to spend time mind reading - what is she up to? Why does she not want the kids? It was usually, previously, so she can have time with wayward friends. I am trying not to think like this now. It's nothing to do with me who she takes counsel from. If she is taking it from people that are not genuinely for our M then so be it. That is her poor judgement not mine.

I am going to say yes but not invite her to whatever we do, I think it might be a little early for that - she might well say no and that might pull back 'old feelings for her'. Any thoughts on this?

I am mindful that it's my W's 40th in a month. Her friends will no doubt throw her a party. I will not. That's the role for a H. If we are getting on like we are I may be tempted to send her a card, I didn't acknowledge the anniversary which has just gone. Any thoughts?

Surfer.

Wow. I should have put chapters and an index in that.

I'm glad you are in a much clearer place, it's so easy for a little wobble to get us, but it's how you overcome these feelings that is important. I usually find that after a wobble, I come out stronger. That seems the case too. And I agree to building a non toxic environment for the children. It would be oh so easy to take the approach of hating one another. As a child, lots of my friends had D parents who hated one another, didn't see or communicate with each other. I also know people now who dislike their ex so much! Personally this is what I want to avoid. Yes I am hurt, but if I can't save my m, then I would like to build a strong friendly r with him to allow us to be in the same room as one another and raise our children. He states this is his intentions too, but we shall see!

Glad you get the kids on Saturday, sure they will love a movie trip with you, and you're absolutely right on not inviting w, it would probably come across as persuing, so just enjoy your time with them.

The birthday thing is something I will have coming up shortly, I'm not sure if I'll even get him just a card, or just leave it to a gift and present from S.

Super proud of you and how you've overcome the wobble!

Thanks Cherry.

Ahh the road often traveled by LBS, filled with wobbles, lol. I consider DBing helpful for me because I no longer spin so hard when I get triggered. I don't react to WH like I used to. IT's helped me understand that his actions are all on him and I have no control over what he does or doesn't do.

We pick ourselves up and dust off much faster when we get adept at DBing. We find ourselves again.

I see great value in using DB regardless of the outcome. The principles here and other places are the habits you will need in place to build a relationship with your current spouse or a new spouse. Consider the goal as to how to have a great marriage.

Surfer, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. Going forward you need a clear idea of what you want if you divorce. Know the law, and know how it can favor you on custody. If it doesn't work on making changes that will favor you, but not by degrading her.

All very true PsySara. Thank you.

Something is on my mind.

My W asked if I wanted to see the kids yesterday. To take them to the cinema or something. I did, they wanted to see me, so we went and had fun. I think this was the right thing to do on balance. But underneath I felt I was helping my W out. I don't mind this per se and she thanked me and said it helped her to get things done as she was having family round later. I would normally be invited to this gathering and I miss it. I miss them.

I think there is a little bitterness in me at having missed out or not been invited but I need to let that go. Which I can - it's only a minor thing.

However, my question is am I letting her eat cake. She would have been in a terrible grump if I had left her to it, trying to get everything straight at home shouting st the kids and getting stressed. It would not have been fun for them.

She thanked me for having the kids but had a slightly wry smile that I am mind reading as minor disrespect. I therefore have mixed feelings, it's hard to find the line between letting them eat cake and being kind. I am not sure if I crossed it. Can anyone help with this?

I think I perhaps need to worry less about my W's respect and more about my own respect for myself.

Still no mediation meeting.

W got a reminder for her unpaid fine - now probably over �500. I advised them of her new contact details as I don't want a court judgement against my home address if it comes to that.

Surfer.

I did a spot of chasing yesterday. I texted my W to see if she had see something on TV I was watching that I knew she would like. No response. It's sad really, she just doesn't have the feelings for me anymore. I'm not having a pity party but I must admit. The times I have thought about her and realised she is not physically or personality wise ideal - but I nevertheless loved her, and clearly still do - make me realise that she just does not view our M in the same way (ie that it was all about us and the kids). She certainly does not love me in the same way.

Nevermind. I will just carry on being the best version of me. If she decides to carry on as she is, ultaimately she will miss out. But sadly so will the kids. I just need to be the best Dad and plan fun things for us to do!

Surfer.

Surfer- sorry about your tough times. I think it was good to spend extra time with your kids. It's your decision and don't worry about her benefiting. Just think about you and your kids benefiting. I do understand the internal conflict though. Don't beat yourself up about the pursuit; we've all done/do it. I can't imagine missing a gathering of in-law relatives...

Jug

Thanks for the insight. I struggle to rationalise Sandi's cake eating stance. Part of me wants to be unforgiving at times and say no to everything - I don't of course, I am learning to detach so I don't need to even feel these things.

I guess in terms of the family going round, I did totally love my W and her family. They were as much mine (or so it felt) I have actually moved a long way from my own parents etc to be here and now can't move back realistically - as I won't see the kids as much. I can go back to see my parents lots though - which is great. There are certain people in her family I won't miss. There's also an awful lot of drama in her family so I can happily say goodby to that.

Thanks again.

Surfer.

I understand your concern about cake eating but you should take them whenever you want to and not as a regular thing.

I'm sorry that you feel so strongly about some of the in-laws. I like some of them well enough but the sisters have said that they support the relationship with the OM and that's not cool.

No that's not cool. So that's not cool at all. If you spoke to someone who told you they thought the Nazis were right and Jews are evil, you would think that was not cool too I imagine. I also imagine you would distance yourself from them ASAP. I can see why you don't miss them. I would distance too. Part of W's family are still lovely. Some are total fcuktards. For similar reasons. I stay clear of them.

Surfer.

I am a believer in being careful with what you say, as you never know when you may be in that position and it comes back and bites you in the ass. And this definitely applies to these people that support affairs, it's like jinxing yourself- what if you were in the position, what would you think. Wouldn't it just be awful for these people that support extramarital affairs end up the spouse who is cheated on....

I agree with jug. It is a bit tricky to follow some of these rules regarding cake eating. But in this situation, I totally think you made the right call. Like you say, if they were at home- they would be getting yelled at. It is much better for them and you to enjoy your day and do something fun.

The texting thing is tough, and I think we do all have a slip up here and there where we persue and don't get the reaction we would like. Put it down to experience, learn from it and leave it at that.

Been busy in London today. Meetings etc. Got back and called W to say S6 had mentioned football and would I go to watch today. To be fair, I asked if he wanted me to, he said yes or next week. W, her M & D will be going. I thought she may have kicked back against this idea (as she has generally tried to ostracise me from her family before) however, she has been positive.

She asked if she could drop in S6's football kit, I said NP all washed and ironed of course

and we had a lovely little chat, just me and her, smiles, chats kindness all round.

It would be good if this could last - not getting my hopes up but I am going to keep on being particularly kind, not worrying about cake eating so much (I think that's something we can get hung up on - it's like digging your heels in and can be dangerous).

Watch this space, may this long continue.

Surfer.

That's great news of going to the football together. This is what I explained to my wh is important. That where the kids are concerned we are still a team in parenting. I've seen kids with divorced parents worrying about who to invite to events and things because there parents can't stand the sight of each other. And that is absolutely what I don't want. I don't want the d full stop, but I really don't want it to affect them. I want them to know that we love them very much and they will always come first. So it makes me happy that you can both put differences aside where they are concerned.

Db is hard. It's hard wether to know if we should give them the cold treatment or wether we should keep ourselves upbeat and friendly. I find for me the latter helps, it helps me in myself to. Holding anger towards him and being cold drains me more. If needed, I know you can be firm so not to get walked over or taken advantage of. The way I see it, is we are showing them what they set to loose. If pouty and angry all the time, I feel that would just conform to them that they are making the right decision.

Cherry,

You have absolutely nailed it. My W was the former tonight (and naturally is) after being so nice earlier (roller coaster etc). I am definitely the latter. It might be that my MIL was there gave me a lovely cuddle and a kiss when I saw her and one when I left. W wants the rewritten history to work. Clearly it's not.....I was just me, kind, nice, talked fun - normal.

S6 was all 'Daddy, I wanted you to come' he was so chuffed. Going every week now! I can't not. Bless him.

Just always got to be the best version of you and you are being that. Well done!

Surfer.

Surfer:

Earlier you brought up the difference between being kind and cake eating. I really struggle with this? Have you found a border that works for you?

Being polite and respectful is a no brainer. DB always says talk less, let the other S start the convo, etc. How have you been managing extra requests?

I truly think in a waywards mind that they believe the rewritten history they tell themselves. Events that never happened. Good on you for seeing her m and showing her what a great guy you are.

That's great, it would have meant a lot to s to see you both together watching him. Bet you were brimming with pride towards him.

Yep you're right. I think it does ourselves a world of good when we start really looking into ourselves and making ourselves happy positive people. And it's infectious, you naturally pull people in if you are a happy person, that's the kind of person that people like to be around.

Keep smiling and keeping up the good work

I keep reminding myself that no matter how awful WH treats me that I will find a way to keep our children undre the umbrella of our love. You're an inspiration for me to do that.

Bigybiz

Quote:

Earlier you brought up the difference between being kind and cake eating. I really struggle with this? Have you found a border that works for you?

This is still work in progress for me. I think the more you detach the less you ride their roller coaster and the less you get pulled into their emotional drama - the circus as such. With that comes clarity as your emotions stabilise. You will get the odd wobble but that's normal.

With stable emotions comes clarity of thought. In short you become the natural you. The kind caring you. Not the one that is the beaten dog or the eggshell walker. You don't feel the need to react as such you just see their actions. You observe but kind of think 'okay' (not even 'whatever' just 'okay').

When you can do that you will naturally think less about cake eating and be the nice kind you without these thoughts clouding your usual actions or impulses.

I think phrases like cake eating are catchy. And whilst catchy phrases help to clarify we can get hung up on them. So I would tend to avoid worrying too much about cake eating and sorry more. Out what will make your spouse think - that was kind. Do the things that leave her smiling and saying thank you. Because that builds the relationship. Anything that does the opposite is negative.

Obviously, if you are facilitating OM contact openly that is not ideal at all. But if you are giving her time and you get to see the kids. Try not to worry what she is up to.

Hope that helps. If you can more specific I will give you my view.

Surfer.

I feel strongly that doing things that are ultimately for the kids are good and should be done without worrying about cake eating. If ww was such a lousy mom that you took full custody, that wouldn't be cake eating to me, even though it would let her carry our her messed up life with no responsibility. You just do it and move on.

Thanks Jug. I totally agree.

I am troubled by something and would appreciate anyone's thoughts. Basically, W moved out taking circa 50% of a lot of money I put in an account for her (a tax efficient savings account in her name) only she can access this. She has he ability to spend it all. Then D and take what she can from the rest of our assets - say 50%. she has talked about buying a house to the kids, but needs to D to do that. She has instigated mediation and I have completed my forms to move forward with this - but she has not. I don't know why. But we are all kind of in limbo. I don't want to D my W as its her journey, butt I do think we need to move forward either reconcile (my W is so dead set against this, I just don't think it will happen - I am also getting to the stage where I don't want her back, for certain as she has been and probably still is). So what is the answer. Sit still as she fritters always �10's of thousands, get L to send a letter to say what is happening.....any views. I am sure when the money runs out I will become the bad man for not providing access to any more money etc. I am also providing her with roughly 50% of her take home money. Effectively I am paying for 2 houses and the. Also giving her monthly income on top........thoughts on this???

In terms of the rest of the sitch. Had a few meetings in town then a curry for lunch yesterday with ex colleagues. Also had a few pints and a l other curry in the evening. Too much 'man food'. Feel a bit icky so I am starting the day with a swim.

W dropped kids and I took them to school as per this morning. All good and kids happy. W seemed pretty normal. Kids will stop today so I will see them from late PM and will take them to school tomorrow. I then have them from Friday to Sunday night - hopefully Monday am so I can take them to school.

All going well re: detaching again. I feel very little emotionally for my W. I do love her and miss her company but no emotional rides. I am just going to treat her like I would a sister/neighbour today. Kind but no attachment.

I would appreciate any thoughts.

Surfer.

Good job on the detachment. That svcks about the money situation. Is it possible to do some sort of legal separation to protect your money? I know that's not always an option but it would be good if it is.

I have locked all accounts except these. So she needs to get a D to get say 50% which is fine. I will continue to give her unofficial 'maintenance'. I think we perhaps need a grown up chat - i.e look, this can't go on. How much do you need? Then get it formalised. Can't see another way around it really. Problem is I am not sure she will engage, she might just go hostile, but if she wants to D then she needs to start moving it.

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