A link to when I still had hope I was a fool for thinking there was any way I could get this marriage to work. I just got back from court and I feel like I’m a criminal. I knew I was going to get screwed by the court because I make more money than my wife and she says she can’t work. She came into court without her pain medication so she was in obvious pain and I know the judge (a woman) took some pity on her.
The court also thinks I lied on my financial declaration because my yearly gross doesn’t match my monthly gross. I tried to explain to my L (the judge wouldn’t let me speak) why the discrepancy. My L didn’t explain it clearly enough and the Judge already seemed to have made up her mind anyway. The discrepancy in my pay was for work I did in November and December of last year and after countless payroll screw ups I got a lump sum in January. It’s not money I can count on but somehow the judge thinks I was hiding that money. My W can now live in luxury while I’m stuck holding the bag for everything. My W can quit her meager job and still be very comfortable while everything I’ve worked for over the years is gone. I cannot even continue to pay for my IC. I cannot afford to pay my credit card bills and I will have to sell my house ASAP to get out from under the mortgage.
The reason I know my M is over is how vindictive my W is. She used EVERYTHING against me. The letter I wrote to her after she left me she submitted in her affidavit. Even the apology letter my DB coach suggested I send to her she used in her affidavit about how I admitted I was wrong about our relationship.
It seems all my DB actions have backfired. It seems my W’s actions were extremely manipulative. I loved my W dearly, but after what happened today I cannot see a future together. I can't understand how she would go for the jugular like she did and how the judicial system ate it up. I could go on about crushed I feel, but I just don’t have it in me.
The way I feel now I can understand how people give up on life after dealing with a blow like this. I’ve never thought of hitting a woman, but I know for a fact if I saw her right now I would be thrown in jail because there is no telling what I would do to her. Being civil and cordial, working on GAL...she used it all against me.
My W even had the gall to say how nice I looked before we walked into the courtroom. She knew I was about to get slaughtered.
I just do not understand a judicial system that allows one party to lose half their money and still be required to pay everything when the other party doesn't have to lift a finger to do anything and still get half, and since I'm also ordered to pay my W's attorney fees I can't even afford to get vindictive on her. I have to take it up the rear and be happy about it.
RDS I'm so so sorry to read this! It's not right at all! And it's certainly not fair that all you have worked towards financially is just going to fund her and her lifestyle.
I agree, seeing the new levels of evil that we never thought that they have can really be an eye opener. Though it really doesn't help with the hurt and betrayal.
I've not much to say, except sending some love your way
Thanks Cherry. I'm still so numb. I've been on the phone the last couple of hours cancelling so many things that are on auto pay trying to come up with the money to pay my W.
I feel like such a fool for opening up to her and trying to work everything out and all along she was using everything against me.
oh man!!!
What did your L say about the outcome? Seems to me he dropped the ball if the outcome was so far off your expectations.
p.s. There must be a way to appeal, if there were technical errors, e.g., if they did not properly account for your January lump sum income.
Dear RDS,
So sorry things did not go as expected. My husband and I spoke about doing cooperative divorce, I don't know where you are in your proceedings but our understanding is that this is a lot less expensive. We don't want to spend a bunch of money on attorneys.
p.s. There must be a way to appeal, if there were technical errors, e.g., if they did not properly account for your January lump sum income.
The hearing today was for temporary spousal support. It's only good for 90 days and then we go to mediation (which naturally I have to pay). During mediation we will hash out all the details of the divorce payments. I expect the harsh payments to be alleviated somewhat then because I will have letters and other legal stuff backing me up, but since I'm required to pay my W's L fees I cannot afford to drag this out as I will in high probability be required to pay all attorney fees.
Seriously, my best option is to delay paying my credit card bills and after the mediation is final I will declare bankruptcy. I can't claim bankruptcy before then because the extra money I will have can be used against me as extra income. It's a stupid way of doing things, but it may be all I have.
My biggest burn is my W using all my goodwill against me. I mean ALL my DB'ing was put in her affidavit. I'm not sure if it swayed the judge, but just knowing my good work for myself my W thought she could use against me to prove how bad I was.
At one point I hurt deeply knowing my wife was destitute, now nothing would make me feel better than watch her break her neck in a freak accident.
Dear RDS,
So sorry things did not go as expected. My husband and I spoke about doing cooperative divorce, I don't know where you are in your proceedings but our understanding is that this is a lot less expensive. We don't want to spend a bunch of money on attorneys.
My W said the same thing, and then she still came out with a L to screw me.
Protect yourself is all I can say.
That totally [censored]!!!!! I'm sorry RDS!!!
Ooops sorry I didn't know s@cks was a censored word
RDS - man o man - I'm SO sorry to hear this. As the ancient philosopher might say "She got the gold mine - I got the shaft".
Stay strong, while your credit card still works go get a big pizza, a case of beer and sit around in your underwear for a change.
Tomorrow is another day.
Keep us updated - we're here for you as your journey takes a new twist along the path.
Stay strong, while your credit card still works go get a big pizza, a case of beer and sit around in your underwear for a change.
Like
Ooops sorry I didn't know s@cks was a censored word
Yeah, it's weird that word is censored, but there are a few words that aren't. It if doesn't suck, but [censored], then it's okay. It blows instead.
Everybody, and I mean everybody thought I was stupid for trying to work my M. Even my D thought I was rushing into this. She kept saying, "Dad, you know Mom can be so mean if she wants to."
I didn't think she would do this to me.
Guess who the fool was? Hint, his initials are RDS
Oh you are no fool. You are a good man. You have your principles and you stuck by your marriage.
The fool is the wicked witch screwing you over.
This beyond svcks. But just know you are a good person. And I hope some of this can be turned round.
Really sorry to hear about this. It's just tragic that so many people can turn into something so awful. You should pay her monthly in pennies or something.....
Oh you are no fool. You are a good man. You have your principles and you stuck by your marriage.
The fool is the wicked witch screwing you over.
This beyond svcks. But just know you are a good person. And I hope some of this can be turned round.
Thanks Cherry. I don't want to be so sad, but I cannot believe how much pain I'm in. I thought her leaving me in May hurt, but it's nothing like what I'm going through now. The betrayal is immense. I was extremely honest with her the last few months and all the while she put it in her "bank" to use it against me.
I wish I could walk away from it all and say f*ck it. If I didn't have my darling daughter I would quit my job and go live on the streets. My brother is homeless and he seems happy enough.
Oh you are no fool. You are a good man. You have your principles and you stuck by your marriage.
You know Cherry, I've been following your sitch, and I wanted to comment so many times, but I didn't know what to say. I thought everything you're going through was beyond sad, and it is, but I have to give it to you, you seem to be handling it really well. Especially since you are pregnant.
That really bites! Your thread is scaring me now... we haven't talked D at all, but when it did come about in conversations months ago W said she wanted to go the co-operative route, I'm worried now that my letters and behaviors will backfire with me too.
PacLove, I don't know for sure if my letters were used against me. I think what hurt me the most was I make much more than my W, she has had a couple of surgeries the last couple of months, and the judge saw discrepanices in my financial decleration. So she ruled HEAVILY in my W's favor.
But, I will say this, everything I had been doing the last couple of months she did try to use against me.
I'm NOT going to change. I hope to God I don't get to be this vindictive a**hole towards her. I now know every word and action I do will have to be with the understanding "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".
RDS, what was your L's explanation for how this turned out?
RDS, I'm not sure if you know my story, but trust me, I know the situation.
XW was a stay at home mom by choice. She told me it was her life long dream to be able to raise the kids through their 5th birthday. I made some serious sacrifices and worked extremely hard to make this possible.
Coincidentally, right as the youngest reached preschool age, she announced she wanted a divorce. Standard BD, OM1, 2, 3, and 4 stuff. Roll in some black out drinking and a suicide attempt just for good measure.
The problem was since she was the primary parent it took a lot of work to get to 50% custody. I moved out of the house, and lived in a friend's basement for 6 months. The first 4 months she got 100% of my income, I continued to pay everything other than just gas and my own food. I visited the kids at the house twice a week. 6 months in I moved into an apartment, it has 2 bedrooms which means S12/D9/D5 all share a bedroom. It is 'cozy' to say the least.
Since then I've gotten 50% custody. I'm working a full time corporate sales job, have the kids half the time, am paying for my apartment, and am still paying for all of her living expenses. On top of that I am paying for a lawyer and ALL court costs.
She has yet to get a job, despite the fact that she now has half the time without the kids. It has been 26 months since BD and she isn't working. She is on every form of government assistance possible and has a pro bona lawyer who has dragged the divorce out for two years, discounted utilities, etc. On the weekends without the kids she is taking trips with her new boyfriend to the cabin and cruising on his boat. But I am funding this because "she gave up her opportunity to advance her career to raise my children". Seems like I gave up my opportunity to raise my children so she didn't have to work and could realize her dream, but that's not how the courts see it, and instead of being thanked for my sacrifice, I am enslaved for another decade.
If you add up the money I'm paying to her (several thousand a month), the money I'm paying for my apartment, and the money I'm paying in legal expenses, I'm going backwards 1-2K/month. Even without my lawyer she is receiving around 60% of my net income and I literally can't make my obligations. I have maxed out my credit cards and am borrowing from my father to pay my lawyer to try to settle this thing. The hell of it is that I'm a high income earner that is TOTALLY a minimalist, other than a few books I simply don't spend money. It seems absurd that I can't pay my rent.
So trust me, I understand. The system is horrible. The reality is this: Most families are paycheck to paycheck, and unable to suddenly afford a second home. Yet after divorce their is a second home's worth of expenses suddenly thrown on the same income, and since the children always come first and mom clearly is the one raising the children, she gets hers before looking at what's left. Even if she's the one that pulls the plug. In fact, I think it's because of this that so many divorces are started by women. They don't need a man because the courts will force the man to provide regardless or ability or choice.
Now I know this is a generalization, I understand many women pay support, many women earn more than men, there are stay at home husbands, etc. I do understand this. I also understand there are WAH's like Cherry's that initiate divorces, and there needs to be protective laws in place to make sure she isn't left high and dry. And that helps to know that if I have to be screwed by a system so that there are other women like Cherry that are protected, that helps me too...almost like, "ok system, I'll take the beating on this one, just make sure Cherry is ok and I'll take it for the team". But for sure as a man that has been through this process, I also know that it can feel as fair as a carnival ring toss with a head wind, it can destroy your life and hang a jail sentence over your head if you don't slave away to make sure the woman that abandoned and cheated on you isn't provided for.
So hopefully you understand I feel your pain. Trust me, I have thought many times of moving to Australia and smoking pot on the beach in some small fishing community and just taking care of myself. It's almost like the world is trying to force me to go off the grid sometimes. But I obviously won't leave my kids.
Here's the thing though...and this is what's really important. Two things in fact: I can eat, and I can sleep.
What I mean is this. No matter how hard things get, I will have food on the table. This is the US, and even though things may not work the way I'd like them to, I won't starve to death. If you look at the number of humans on this planet historically, that automatically puts us in the top .1% of everyone who has ever lived. We will always have food, we will always have a place to stay, we will always get the medical attention we need. We MUST stay appreciative of that. In fact, if we can't appreciate how amazingly awesome that is, then more money wouldn't make us happy anyway.
The other part is I can sleep. When I look in the mirror I am happy with my choices. I have pride in who I am and how I handle the adversity I face. I couldn't do what XW is doing and feel good about who I was, and if I had the choice between being financially abused or being financially abusive, I would rather take the a$$ end of it because I couldn't live with myself if I did what she did to someone else. That said, I even can find some forgiveness. You have to understand, this is our culture. We live in a culture of divorce. It's not considered abnormal. And we live in a culture where women feel entitled to support. It's just assumed. Not many women say "I am going to forego the support because I'd like to pay my own way", it's just assumed that in a divorce a man will pay out money. It's not considered wrong, it's just the norm. So XW doesn't comprehend she is doing anything wrong, any more than a slave owner thought it was wrong to benefit from slave labor.
Make no mistake, I loathe the system. I think it's twisted, horrible, and completely unfair. I think it supports divorce as I've said, which I think is equally loathsome. And it's hard to shrug it off when I don't know how I am going to pay the 4K due to me on September 1 for her expenses and my rent, plus the $600 for the mediator, on top of the 2K I just paid for my attorney's invoice, but her income is court ordered and guaranteed to come out of my pay while mine is commission and variable, she is more secure than I am...ok, breathing, breathing...point is, it's hard to feel good about a system that you hate, and I do hate this system, and our divorce culture...
But in the end life isn't the way we want it. We have to continue to choose to be appreciative for what we have. We can eat, we can sleep, and while we can't change the world we live in, we can be the men we want to be to make the parts of it we touch a little better than we left it. Never regret your choices, you did them for YOU, and regardless of her response, you will feel honorable about how you handled it for the rest of your life.
My challenge to you- what do you have to be appreciative of in your life? My motto which I hinted at earlier has gotten me through this: If I can't be happy in my life because I didn't get the marriage I wanted and my woman left me...If despite my health, my children, my hobbies, my job, my food to eat, my place to live, my friends, my family...if I STILL look up at the sky and say "Screw this God, this isn't enough, without the woman and marriage I wanted I can't be happy, this is all garbage!"...If I'm THAT ungrateful...then having my marriage work wouldn't have made me happy anyway.
RDS, what was your L's explanation for how this turned out?
My L said the big reason was the judge's concern about the financial declaration discrepancy and my W's obvious physical pain she was in. My W had emergency surgery this past weekend, and she was in the hospital earlier this month so she played that out to the hilt.
I guess the judge has seen a lot of men try to hide assets from their wives and she punishes men who try to do that. I honestly did not try to hide anything because I knew it could bite me in the ass. I was clear and concise as I could be with my financial statement. That's why trying to come up with the money is devastating to me. I honestly don't have an extra $3k to pay my W a month and still pay everything else.
My cash flow is now in the negative. I don't have enough money to pay all bills. My W is the one who put us in this situation, yet I'm the one paying the price. It boggles the mind.
Zues126,
Thanks for your post. I've read your stuff before and I never thought it would happen to me, but it obviously has. I can't begin to think on your lines, just yet, but I know in time I will have to just to survive.
Thanks again. I will read, and read again, your post whenever I am most down.
Rds and Zues
Sorry to read your current situations.
Zues, as I live in Australia, you would be more than welcome to come stay in my spare room. Probably can't help with pot though.
Thank you for those kind words. What can I say, I'm the fool that he's going to leave. Haha. Some days I'm not handling it as well as I'd like. But just trying to focus on my babies.
Dear RDS,
I am so sorry you are hurting. If my husband and I do get the divorce we have talked about doing cooperative to reduce the expense. June 1 I quit my job because my husband and I felt I had to to look after our daughter. Even when I was working I don't earn anything close to what he does. I don't know exactly what research is done but he estimates he will have to pay me spousal support for A long time to come . I have heard again and again to protect myself by hiring an attorney and then forcing him to hire another attorney and battling things out would cost us A bunch of money and then nobody would be happy .
Zeus, you want to know the crazy part? I'm too nice and have some grace upon me that even though my wh has absolutely crushed me and deserves all he gets. I don't want to ruin him to the point that he is unable to live. How crazy is that?! So many people tell me to take him for all he has. But I can't do that, at the end of the day, although he needs to feel the consequences for his actions, I don't want to leave him to the point he can barely afford to live or afford food. Child support I'll take, spousal support though, I don't know if I would get that. I work for a good company and will get paid maternity full salary for 9 months, then I will return back to work and work my ass off and show my kids that I work damn hard for all we have.
We had the D talk tonight, i told him I kinda wish I could be the scorned woman and take him for all he's got. But it's just not me, I'm feisty, but I'm not conniving.
Sometimes having morals just wants to kick you up the @ss!
Dear RDS,
I am so sorry you are hurting. If my husband and I do get the divorce we have talked about doing cooperative to reduce the expense. June 1 I quit my job because my husband and I felt I had to to look after our daughter. Even when I was working I don't earn anything close to what he does. I don't know exactly what research is done but he estimates he will have to pay me spousal support for A long time to come . I have heard again and again to protect myself by hiring an attorney and then forcing him to hire another attorney and battling things out would cost us A bunch of money and then nobody would be happy .
I think you're on the right track, I really do. My mistake was going after her to protect myself as soon as she left me. In hindsight I should have waited but she left me with a 3 sentence "Dear John" letter so I hired a L to protect myself. Big F'ing mistake. It forced my W to get a L and then all bets were off.
Try to work it out between yourselves as much as possible as it would be the best way to go about it. Don't do what I did and get attorneys involved. Nothing good can come from it.
Not to be sexist, but as a woman you do still have some advantages in today's legal system so you don't have to worry as much as your husband.
Sometimes having morals just wants to kick you up the @ss!
Yep, I have the bruises to prove it.
RDS,
Sorry to hear about how one sided things are. The system is really messed up. Bad behavior should not be awarded but society has accepted bad behavior as the norm.
A couple of things that I've heard / believe about this process and I think that RDS's story validates at least some of them. We all need to be careful "everywhere" - even here.
- Educate yourself
- Document ONLY that you wish to prove including online, text messages and post-it notes.
- Don't be an @ss
- Court is theatre
- (I've been told) female lawyers tend to do better in court
I'm not saying that RDS broke any of these "rules" but was certainly screwed over by the 3rd point.
On a good note this is only a temporary support arrangement. It could be used as a basis for a final decision and I believe that it often is but the fight's not over yet.
Good luck RDS - you're not finished yet!
AndrewP,
I thought I educated myself well. Everybody in the courtroom yesterday except me and the bailiff was a woman.
I was very polite. I wanted to scream at the judge when she wouldn't let me talk about the financial declaration, but I kept my emotions in check. I felt like I was dealing with Judge Judy.
One of the things that really bugs me and rips at my heart is how my W used my DB against me. She wrote in her affidavit I was going out and meeting people and I never did that with her before. She also complained how I set up a savings account and I never did that before either. I recently told her I set up the savings account so I could put away money monthly so when big bills come due I would have the money there and I wouldn't have to pay it in a lump sum. When my W handled the bills she never could stick with putting money away for a rainy day.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, she used my DB apology letter against me. That hurt the worst. It came from my heart and I meant every word of it. I did not want to point fingers at who was at fault of our M breakdown, but if you read the apology letter it looks as if I admit to everything.
She even had her brother write a statement how cold and mean I was to her and he recounted something from 15 years ago! I don't even remember what he was going on about.
I didn't think my W was going through a MLC, but maybe she is. I don't know. All I know is I'm paying dearly for it, just because I'm a man and I make more than she does. No matter what I will have to pay her alimony and I will have a noose around my neck until I die and she won't have to worry about money again as long as I'm alive.
Where is the equality in that?
RDS--
I realize this really hurts but I just keep coming back to your lawyer. He's getting paid to make the best case for you. *He* should have done his homework on who the judge is and her disposition, *he* should have known what the possible issues are w/ your financial statements, *he* should have represented those issues in the best light, *he* should have anticipated how your DB activities & letters might have been used against you.
I think you have to have some tough conversations w/ your lawyer. Maybe consider another one.
I guess one good thing to come out of the judgement yesterday was my W only gets 10 percent of my 401k's value from the day of the filing. I thought for sure I would half of it's value to her.
RDS--
I realize this really hurts but I just keep coming back to your lawyer. He's getting paid to make the best case for you. *He* should have done his homework on who the judge is and her disposition, *he* should have known what the possible issues are w/ your financial statements, *he* should have represented those issues in the best light, *he* should have anticipated how your DB activities & letters might have been used against you.
I think you have to have some tough conversations w/ your lawyer. Maybe consider another one.
I agree completely. I do not think I got adequate representation. My problem is, I can't afford another L now. I've already paid my L's fees. My L said my W's L doesn't like to go to court and it shows. I responded by she did a damn good job of sticking it to me with her "ineptitude". We did not see the information beforehand. We didn't get it until 30 minutes before the hearing. I don't know if that's normal or not, so there really wasn't time to do anything.
My L had great reviews on multiple sites and I felt comfortable with her. I just felt I was on my own in the courtroom.
I just felt I was on my own in the courtroom.
*That's* the problem! You should've felt like your L completely took care of you. I think you have to tell her to fix the problem.
BTW, you paid your L a "retainer," right? Probably in the $5k range? It is my understanding that there are "refundable" and "non-refundable" retainers. Unless your L is some hotshot, it's probably refundable. That is, they charge their hourly rate against the retainer, and any remaining can be/will be refunded.
I will have to go through the contract and see how much time is left and see if there is any money remaining. I seriously doubt there is.
RD,
I need to come back to your thread. I will read it when I get a chance. My W is pulling some serious shtick. Perhaps we can get through this together and restore our faith in mankind when this is over.
Best,
RAI
Thanks RAI. I think I may need it.
I'm not suggesting a good lawyer isn't important and that there aren't differences between good and bad...but it can be hard to tell as a layman.
The problem is that, as I said, there aren't enough resources to go around, and if RDS is the higher income earner and hasn't been the primary care giver than he is at a severe disadvantage. The best lawyer in the world can't change that fact any more than the best chess computer in the world can't win playing me without it's queen or rooks.
I know there were times I was tempted to fire my lawyer. Long times without updates, I felt like I had to ask questions that should've been communicated to me ahead of time, finding out that my bank statements would be scrutinized without the warning months earlier to make sure every expenditure helped my case, etc. But what I've learned is that lawyers are managing crippling case loads through a flawed system, and that we don't get the service we think we deserve as a 'paying customer'. But while I was put off on my lawyer a bit, frustrated many times, in the end she came through when she needed and got me 50% of the time with the children. From there the money doesn't really matter, it's mostly formulaic and as long as I have my kids the rest is kind of a joke anyway.
So educate yourself, arm yourself, but just know that even good lawyers will leave you disappointed with the service and the outcome, it's our system in play my friend.
Thanks Zues126. I hope what you wrote pertains to my L. My W's L didn't impress me at all, but the judge seemed to have had her mind made up when everything was said and done.
I felt like there was no reason for me to be there. The judgement was already decided.
No doubt. You could've been at work earning money for WAW. Maybe they can take what you would've paid her out of the day's wages and add that to your settlement. I mean, just so you make sure the children are cared for
RDS, there are guidelines for spousal support - did the judge deviate from them?
You can go back to court to ask to have this amended, I would discuss this with your L. Ask your employer for a statement that explains what happened. Your L should also have noticed the discrepancy and addressed it before going into court.
Cherry, I did the same thing. I negotiated myself down $700/month from the guideline in spousal support because I saw that WH couldn't pay me that much. How stupid we are. He has the money to support OW, obviously.
I know there are guidelines for spousal support. I don't know what they are. I'm sure the judge went for the maximum.
My L failed me miserably. There is no other way around it. My W said my L set the tone negatively when the two Ls met in person the first time on my court date. My L looked at my W and and said, "so you're the W who abandoned the marriage?" The pissed off my W and her L and they stopped being in a mood to negotiate. We went back and forth in negeotioan in a mini mediation scenario. I was the sticking point (I had no idea my L had opened her stupid mouth about the "abandonment" comment), because I thought they were asking too much. I never dreamed it would only get worse from the judge.
My L should not have been surprised by the questions the judge asked, but she was.
Luckily, this is only for temporary spousal support and in 90 days we will go to final mediation. Hopefully, I will get the support reduced somewhat. If nothing else I will be cleared of some of the bills I'm required to pay now.
My problem is how I'm going to survive until then.
I just don't understand this woman. She calls me the day after the court judgement. I stared at the phone for what seemed like forever, and I was going to let it go to VM, but curiosity got the better of me. The reason she called me was to ask me when I was leaving to move our D's furniture in a U-Haul. She had some stuff she wanted me to bring for our D and some stuff for me for the trip.
We ended up talking for nearly 2 hours. I told her how incredibly hurt I was when she used my heartfelt words against me. She said that wasn't her intent but her L said to bring everything she had, which my W did. I didn't tell my W I couldn't trust her anymore. I will not get sucked into the crap I did again.
She dropped by the house the morning I was going to leave to drive the 1,100 miles to TX. We talked briefly. She walked into the garage. It's the first time she has remotely been in the house since she left. She wanted to see how empty the garage was now that my D's furniture and other belongings were packed into the truck.
She gave me a large "goody" bag of snacks and drinks for my long trip. It's stuff she used to do for me all the time during our M, even during the bad times. I didn't question why she did it. I accepted the bag and thanked her. She then gave me a very tight hug and a kiss on my check.
Why in the world would she do that? She even called me later that day to see how my drive was going. This was last Friday. I haven't talked to my W since then. I've been extremely busy helping my D complete her move. I'm sitting in a Dallas airport getting ready to board for my flight home. I'm to meet with a realtor when I get home to go over the options to get the house sold as quickly as possible.
Part of me is excited about the new beginning, but I'm more sad about what I'm losing.
Safe trip. I still have to read your thread. Did not forget.
W sounds very manipulative. have you heard of Dalia Dippolito? She tried to have her H murdered. There are recordings of her conversation after she was apprehended (google search it). Very interesting how she tries to manipulate her H even after she tried to kill him. It comes down to: Do not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do.
Best,
RAI
RAI, I didn't know who Dalia Dippolito was at first. I did a quick search on her and I remembered her from a couple of ID Discovery shows I had watched. From what I gather she is on house arrest until her new trial. She is playing the legal system for all its worth.
My W probably is manipulative and I'm not sure if she even knows she is doing it. I know she won't try to kill me because now that I've cancelled my life insurance coverage I'm her gravy train. If I'm dead then she gets nothing from me, except the house and there is so little equity it's not worth it.
The first two months after my W left I was doing well detaching and GAL'ing, but I've slid backwards a lot since then. I go see my IC today. I'm hoping an hour talk with her will help me get back on track.
So you named this thread that your W is "pure evil."
Then this:
She said that wasn't her intent but her L said to bring everything she had, which my W did.
She gave me a large "goody" bag of snacks and drinks for my long trip. It's stuff she used to do for me all the time during our M, even during the bad times.
She then gave me a very tight hug and a kiss on my check.
She even called me later that day to see how my drive was going. This was last Friday.
So I presume you are backing off from your thoughts on the whole "pure evil" thing. It sounds to me like she is trying to get you back on the hook as she did a few weeks ago with your meetups and the dog interactions.
Just my 2 cents.
darknes, I have no idea what's going on anymore. I'm a rudderless ship. I go through stages where I hate everything about her, and almost as fast I go back to loving her with all my heart. I don't want to go through life constantly being angry at her, even if being angry at her would probably be in my best interest emotionally and financially in the long term
When I talk to her on the phone I get happy for being nice to her. Being happy feels good. It is so unlike how I used to be towards her during the last years of our M, and with everything else going on in my life I still cherish the small amount of happiness I get on the occasions when we talk.
I know I'm the classic LBS. I know what I *should* be doing, but currently I'm not capable of doing it. I wish to God I could be "ILYBNILWY" towards my W. My W is that way towards me now and it took her heart turning to stone to get that way.
Safe trip. I still have to read your thread. Did not forget.
W sounds very manipulative. have you heard of Dalia Dippolito? She tried to have her H murdered. There are recordings of her conversation after she was apprehended (google search it). Very interesting how she tries to manipulate her H even after she tried to kill him. It comes down to: Do not believe anything they say and 50% of what they do.
Best,
RAI
I recommend watching this video on youtube. There is one with good commentary by 'feminism lol' that you can see by adding the word 'manipulation' to the search with 'Dalia Dippolito'.
Clearly she reflects an almost zero percentage of females in that she attempted to have her spouse killed, but it is telling to see the ways she attempts to manipulate her betrayed spouse. I'm not saying it's an easy button to get detached, but I'm not saying it's not either.
Each day that goes by should be a day where I’m closer to moving away from her, but it’s not. I read nearly everyone’s threads, even if I rarely post in them. My sitch is different than most on here so I don’t really know what support I can provide. Neither one of us cheated, our only child is grown and living her own life, my W left for good reasons, and more importantly, all our conversations are friendly and we don’t argue. In fact, she made me lunches for the week and just dropped by the house and gave them to me. I try not to read too much into it because my W was always so giving to me and it’s only now how I appreciate it again. I think she likes how surprised and thankful I am (which is the truth).
We’ve been talking about our married lives in such detail that its’ almost as if I’m rediscovering her. We stopped talking years ago so this is really refreshing. I almost feel guilty about how my sitch is going. My M may be dead and beyond repair, but I am thankful we’re not at each other’s throats. I am so thankful I’m not dealing with the issues a lot of the people on this board are dealing with. I give everyone extreme props for how you’re dealing with it.
I know after the court judgement I should hate her, but in retrospect, I’ve come to my senses. She was following her L’s advice and my L was so ineffective it was only natural I got screwed. I’m not going to skirt around it but I’m still hurt she used some of my DB against me. I’m still scrambling my finances around to keep my head above water. The system [censored] is all I can say.
However; having said all that I still have pain, lots of it. I’ve spent the last few days really scrubbing this house and getting it ready to sell. I’ve had a few realtors come through and a couple said they could get my house sold rather quickly and I won’t have to do much work, and some of the others say I have a lot of work to do to get top dollar. I don’t think those realtors understand I don’t have time to get top dollar. I need to get the house sold so I get from out from under it because not only for financial reasons but this house is a tomb of many memories. Every time I move a piece of furniture or pack boxes it brings to the surface more proof of how my life is changed forever and there isn’t much I can do about it.
One of the hardest things I’m dealing with is selling my workout equipment. I’m selling most of the stuff for pennies to the dollar. I just have to get rid of it. Today I sold my treadmill. Unlike a lot of people, I actually used my treadmill. I used to run 5-6 miles a day on it, with only 1 day a week for rest. After BD day I would go days between runs and then it might be 2-3 miles at a time. Seeing my treadmill go is even more proof the life I thought I would have is gone forever. Admittedly I do get resentful of my W for having to sell it.
In a couple of days it will be 4 months since BD day. I’ve changed for the better in so many ways and if my W didn’t leave me I would never have improved my life. I would have gone to my grave as a resentful and bitter man. So my overall outlook on life has improved. I have all the emotions now. I don’t only have anger anymore. I have them all; especially sadness. LOL.
September 15 is my anniversary date. It will be 32 years. I hope to God I can survive it.
Hang in there. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that your sitch is different from others on here. It's pretty much the same.
RDS - I'm glad you're still stopping by here. Best of luck.
Hey , Hang in there, keep exposing yourself to the stuff that held those MR memories, with each time you do it will hurt less and less. Don't let the feeling stop you from doing what you need to do.
Just look at your anniversary date like any other date on the calendar. Look at it like a change of season from winter to spring or look at like a day to put our your garbage. It was a date of importance but to you now as you move forward its just another Thursday.
Hang in there. I'm not sure what you mean by saying that your sitch is different from others on here. It's pretty much the same.
I suppose when you look at it my sitch is the same as I'm separated from my W and it looks like divorce will happen. Where mine is different is we're on good talking terms, there is no child custody to hash out, and no infidelity to concern ourselves with. I'm hating life right now, but compared to most around here I'm not in as bad a shape.
Thanks for the kind words everybody.
RDS- I don't know if you saw, but I threw up a post on my thread in "surviving the big D". My D is now totally finished after two years.
After I wrote it I thought of you. I am so glad I handled my D like I did, and I really feel it was almost magical how it worked out based on the way I approached it. Please check it out.
Take care.
Zues,
I read your thread in Surviving the Big D". It was a interesting read and it was good to see you have many supporters over there.
You wrote a lot of stuff that resonated with me. One of the things you wrote was along the lines of we are in a free country to do as we please, but after divorce I can be locked into a judgement that prevents me from doing what I want to do if I don't make at least a certain amount of money.
I can be perfectly happy living in a small 1 bedroom house with the bare necessities. My hobbies are cheap so I don't have to work to give me the money to play. I am a simple man but I always aimed to better myself and work my way up the ladder to have the "American dream" for my family. For the most part I achieved that. But now, depending on the final mediation I will ALWAYS have to pay my wife something. She will have the luxury of following her dream because it's so easy to do when you know someone else is footing a majority of your income.
There won't be a temporary alimony because of the length of my M. In SC it is the way it is. It will be until I retire and then I will have to go to court and get the alimony adjusted.
What really cuts the wound with me is I feel as if I'm getting punished for doing the "right" thing. I always worked hard, and like you, I was the top dog. I have never had a bad review. All my reviews were excellent to outstanding. That is how I kept getting promoted. For about 5 years I was working 80+ hours to get ahead. My W used to be a hard worker until about 10 years ago. Long story short she gave up her high paying career when she was laid off and kind of gave up. She took menial jobs after that and for four years she didn't work at all. She just took a job this January where she barely clears minimum wage but it's a job "she loves".
I would be ecstatic if I could work in a job where I didn't care how much I made because I had other income I didn't have to work to get.
It's like the system punished the person who worked the hardest and rewards the person who took the easy way out. That is where I have the hardest time coming to terms with the fairness of it all.
Also, since my W is getting so much from me what incentive is there for her to even think about getting back together? Right now the money is all hers to spend as she sees fit. If we got back together then she loses that independence because the money becomes ours again. I will have to work my butt off to just barely survive with just the bare essentials and she will have an extra $2,000+ to spend as she sees fit.
Zues,
Also, since my W is getting so much from me what incentive is there for her to even think about getting back together? Right now the money is all hers to spend as she sees fit. If we got back together then she loses that independence because the money becomes ours again. I will have to work my butt off to just barely survive with just the bare essentials and she will have an extra $2,000+ to spend as she sees fit.
You wouldn't want her to just get back together because she doesn't have extra money, would you? You don't want that to be her incentive.
Think a little more of your self worth.
You wouldn't want her to just get back together because she doesn't have extra money, would you? You don't want that to be her incentive.
Think a little more of your self worth.
Of course not, I want her back because I love her deeply. But looking through her eyes I'm sure if she puts things in the pro/con list of whether to get back with me losing her financial independence will be put squarely in the "con" side of the list.
But that's what I am saying. I know why you want her back. But from her perspective, you don't want her to come back for the wrong reasons.
You are deserving of someone who isn't selfish enough to stay away for the sake of money.
You're right Ginger. As soon as I responded I knew I wasn't clear on it. I wouldn't want her back if she was selfish enough to stay away purely for financial reasons. But I do have to be wise enough to know if she has doubts about getting back with me (for many reasons) then that will have to play into her decision. I can't kid myself it wouldn't.
My IC even asked me if I won the lottery would I still want her back. My answer is yes.
I get where you're coming from Ginger...I am not sure I disagree...I am not sure how I feel about it at all. I guess I don't believe in rainbows and unicorns anymore.
It's like my economics teacher used to say. He said "People say a human life is priceless, and that you can't put a price on a human life. But that's BS. Go on down to the DMV and talk to the city planners. They're the ones that figure out whether to put in a stop light at an intersection, or leave it as a stop sign, or whatever. They look at lives lost per year, what their budget is, and the do the best they can. But there is a point at which they know they could save another x lives with y more in the budget. Do the math, and that is EXACTLY what our society thinks a human life is worth." I'm not throwing stones at the DMV, we all do the best we can as a society and they have to work with what they have to work with. But he has a point, the idea that it is priceless is a bit naive.
A love that isn't based on self interest that somehow stands the test of time, well, it hasn't been proven to me that it exists. Most marriages I know wouldn't have lasted if not for a lot of things like finances, children, and many other glues that bonded them together. The idea that it should hold up due to a mature, mutually rewarding, eternal love...I just haven't seen that happen. Not saying it's impossible, I just haven't seen it yet. What I have seen is a whole lot of divorce because one or both parties chase that ideal.
Again, no firm conclusions. I'm not saying I'd go so far as to find a woman without citizenship that needed me to remain in the country, depended on me financially, and couldn't scratch the surface on the life that I could provide for her elsewhere is necessarily the way I'm planning on finding a future Mrs. Zues...but I'm not saying it isn't. I'm kinda kidding around here, the truth is it's the last thing on my mind, but I get why it's a debate many guys wrestle with after seeing this play out. That and the debate of whether to ever take the chance again after going through the system and coming to grips with the reality of what is really happening these days (instead of what we wished we could find).
RDS, it stinks. It really does. I've given you my two mantras: 1) how I'll take it on the chin knowing that it's the price I have to pay to live in a country where legitimately hard up single moms have protection against dead beat dads, and 2) how we are still in the historical top .01% of every king that ever lived, and we need to be appreciative daily of that fact and never lose sight of it.
In other words, yes, this will be the worst thing that probably ever happens to you, but our lives still have meaning, and there are a lot of people that have it worse...
Long story short she gave up her high paying career when she was laid off and kind of gave up. She took menial jobs after that and for four years she didn't work at all. She just took a job this January where she barely clears minimum wage but it's a job "she loves".
It's like the system punished the person who worked the hardest and rewards the person who took the easy way out.
This is very interesting wording you use. On the one hand, you note how your W found a job that she loves. But at the same time, you call it "menial" and the "easy way out".
I wonder how this attitude carried over into other aspects of your life together.
Long story short she gave up her high paying career when she was laid off and kind of gave up. She took menial jobs after that and for four years she didn't work at all. She just took a job this January where she barely clears minimum wage but it's a job "she loves".
It's like the system punished the person who worked the hardest and rewards the person who took the easy way out.
This is very interesting wording you use. On the one hand, you note how your W found a job that she loves. But at the same time, you call it "menial" and the "easy way out".
I wonder how this attitude carried over into other aspects of your life together.
You bring up a fair point with wording, but I think I understand what he's saying. Oftentimes in dual income families the man is expected to be the provider and the woman's job is considered more optional or discretionary, and in some cases they use this flexibility to pursue hobby type businesses they do for fun and fulfillment as much as for income. Obviously this doesn't apply to every family, and there are contrary examples. But in his case it did apply and I get the distaste.
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams, so instead of making her grind it out in a corporate job she didn't like, he ground it out in his job working extra long hours so she could do what she wanted, even though it didn't pay as much. Now she can initiate a divorce despite a lack of abuse or infidelity, then demand a large % of his income so he has to keep working those long hours and she can continue to work in jobs that are half hobby half job, all while spending the leisure time he doesn't have to go date new guys and whoop it up. Not to mention that she might be able to get more parental time with the kids that will further increase the amount he has to work and pay while decreasing the time he sees what's left of the family after she has removed his wife and the majority of the time with the kids from him.
It is a raw, raw, raw deal. I don't think this is him being diminishing towards his WAW. It is just calling a spade a spade and dealing with the loss and betrayal.
It's all good though. In the end we can find our own happiness, be appreciative for what we have, and live in a way that allows us to sleep at night.
Zues,
Thanks for replying. You said it better than I ever could.
The one thing I do have going for me is my D is grown and living her life so I don't have custody or child support to worry about. She has said what is going on for the finances is unfair and she does hold resentment towards her mother because my W and I raised our D to be strong and independent. We wanted her to grow up and not have to depend on anyone to live you life, yet my W is doing the exact opposite of that. My D sees my W has being very hypocritical and now my D rarely talks to my W. It's something my W will eventually come to regret I'm afraid.
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams.
I understand that. And I'm not saying that that is the wrong thing to have done.
My point is more that it wasn't really a "gift" if you're turning around and putting down the choices that she made
I was also upset with my ex for making a long series of choices that I'm sure led to an overall earning much lower than what was possible. But in hindsight that anger was misplaced. I agreed to the path; it wasn't fair to continue to be upset about the pay checks years later when I knew what was coming.
Just a thought.
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams.
I understand that. And I'm not saying that that is the wrong thing to have done.
My point is more that it wasn't really a "gift" if you're turning around and putting down the choices that she made
I was also upset with my ex for making a long series of choices that I'm sure led to an overall earning much lower than what was possible. But in hindsight that anger was misplaced. I agreed to the path; it wasn't fair to continue to be upset about the pay checks years later when I knew what was coming.
Just a thought.
A man gives his wife the ability to not having to work for a decade, or to work in a casual manner of her choosing that she enjoys. That is his choice. That was the gift. They share a love and a marriage, and he continues to provide that gift.
After she decides she doesn't want to live with him but demands the continuation of payments, it is no longer a gift. It is court ordered indentured servitude. He no longer has the choice, or he could face jail time, lost access to his children, and other horrifying consequences.
Could he have seen this coming? Potentially. There are many organizations trying to educate men about the injustice in the family courts, the divorce epidemic, and advising them that marriage is a bad risk in today's day and age. But young men are idealistic and go all in, pouring their hearts and souls into trying to please their wives, many of whom shed them like dead weight because they can have their cake and eat it too.
Listen. I am not a member of these men's groups. I am not grouping all women together, suggesting marriage is a trap to be avoided, or anything like that. But it's not because I don't get where they're coming from or didn't agree with some of their assessments. The problem I had was that those groups didn't offer solutions, and came to only negative conclusions. The women on this forum prove that there are many, many, many incredible females out there that have the character of a saint and still put value in men, families, and good morals. They aren't the problem. They aren't the enemy. We are all on one team, and this is impacting all of us. It's not like they aren't being affected by men's mistrust of them, or that men don't make up a large segment of the walk away spouses, or that men aren't betraying trusts in record numbers. And even the women that do these things are impacted negatively as they aren't finding deep abiding fulfillment down that road.
You're right about not letting anger cloud your life...but when you live in a broken world, I think healthy anger can be motivation for leading change. If you think back to the many injustices in our world, from racism, to sexism, to many other things, anger was pivotal in change. Of course blacks should be angry at racist police. Of course women should be angry at sexist corporations. And I think men should be angry about the way family law is practiced, and the way they allow women to abuse the system in many cases. But then, once you do what you can about it, it's time to go back to taking the pieces left behind, building what you can in the imperfect world we live in, and being grateful for what we have which is still an awful lot.
Interesting POV. I don't mean to turn it around on myself but my ex and I had an interesting arangement. He, at 22 became the youngst store manager of the company he worked for. We were dating at the time. He worked his way up and made good mo ex, he won a trip for us to Puerto Vallarta and cabo.
He was miserable because he had to work hard. He wanted to be a court officer like my dad and stepmom. Easy work, job security, awesome retirement, but low pay. I just wanted him to be happy so I supported him and my dad and stepmom pulled evey string for him. I was making not too much. I took the civil service exam too. This was around 9/11 and there was a hiring freeze. I decided to go to Niraing school in the meantime. He eventually became a court officer at the time I became a nurse and our roles flip flopped. I was the bread winner. When we had our daughter we made a deal where I would work Perrier 2 nights a week, which actually made me break winner AND SAHM.
Well, he left when I was only back at work for 4 months. I had to go back full time. I had to pay for 57% of her child care and got very little child support. To top it off, due to shift work and raising a baby , I eventually had to give up my job and I switched jobs often within my profession to make it work for our daughter. I had no help. I work a boring well paying job now which gives me a work life balance.
But where does my passion and strength lie? In besides nursing. I was an Icu nurse who loved her job and was good at it.
What changed for him? Absolutely nothing. Oh yeah, he met his OW I'm the job.
So it happens to us women too. And it stinks big time.
Perrier? I worked per diem. We seriously need an edit button
Thank you for the reply Ginger. While I don't celebrate the adversity you've faced, it is good to have people from both sides of the gender divide weigh in.
You're right, had you been less supportive during your relationship, leaned on him to provide, and acted helpless and needy, well, when he left you could've have had a pretty easy road for yourself. Well, at least you have your dignity and integrity. I know I have no regrets about making the choices I made, from working hard, to putting my heart in XW's hands, to making myself totally vulnerable legally. Even with how things played out I wouldn't do it differently because it's the only thing I could've done.
To be fair...I should mention that XW was the stay at home mom and did the vast majority of the parenting during our M, and post D there are a lot of things she still is taking the lead on in terms of getting kids to doctors, getting glasses, etc. I have stepped up a lot, but am not at 50% across the board. And she is a great mom in so many ways. My point is that while I am court ordered to work and pay a ton of money, she is court ordered to continue to care for my children. I'm not suggesting anything is one sided. But it is definitely a difficult situation for all involved.
I understand and agree with both of you. I think the system stinks. The way it's set up is that the high income earner has to continue to provide for the low income earner after divorce. And if the system allows either party to just quit whenever, leaving the high income earner financially exposed.
My point was really more about RDS's attitude towards his W's employment. If I can feel his resentment over a few words on the Internet, then I'm sure his W could feel it before she left.
Agreed that we have to be careful about how we process or anger. I just posted this the other day and people responded with how they use these forums to express the anger here so they don't lose it with their WAS. But I agree that while it's ok to be angry, we have to be very careful about how we choose to process that anger. When we become diminishing and hurtful in our thoughts it will come across in our behavior whether we realize it or not, and ultimately that is not being our best selves.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...422#Post2703422
Agreed that we have to be careful about how we process or anger. I just posted this the other day and people responded with how they use these forums to express the anger here so they don't lose it with their WAS. But I agree that while it's ok to be angry, we have to be very careful about how we choose to process that anger. When we become diminishing and hurtful in our thoughts it will come across in our behavior whether we realize it or not, and ultimately that is not being our best selves.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...422#Post2703422Well said Zeus.
We become our thoughts.
To vent anger would be to let it pass through
To continually dwell in the anger leads to rumination then the belief of what the anger tells us.
Then we become that which it convinces us to be.
Process anger appropriately is key.
The process should be a short one.
Dwell on it with spite and hurt is dangerous to ones well being.
I agree, dwelling in anger hurts us mostly.
This is coming from someone who dwelled in the anger of what her exH and his OW did for, um, years.
My real growth and peace came when I stopped doing that.
My point was really more about RDS's attitude towards his W's employment. If I can feel his resentment over a few words on the Internet, then I'm sure his W could feel it before she left.
Actually darknes, when she finally got a job in January I was happy and I tried to convey my happiness to her. Of course we were barely on speaking terms so I don't think she listened to me. I thought she was finally pulling her weight to help get us out of debt, even if the income was small.
I was very bitter during the last few years of her not having a job and I will tell you why.
When I retired out of the Air Force I took a job that required extensive travel and very long hours. The pay was very good so I did it. I would be gone months at a time. But what made that part awesome was my wife would travel to see me all the time. We had wonderful times in NYC, Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and many other places. What I didn't know was she was drowning us in debt. When I finally discovered it is when our M started slowly going downhill. I started to really resent her, but I loved her deeply so I allowed her to not work in the stressful jobs and even when she stopped working because of health reasons (her excuse) I carried on, but my resentment grew on a daily basis. She didn't even take care of the house. It was like she was parasite. She took and took and gave nothing back.
My anger toward her job came after she left me. She has used her not working for four years and her low paying job as reasons she can't get better work and she needs my support and the BS legal system accommodated her with open arms. Not only did my W ruin my financial stability during our M, the judicial system is twisting the screws on my financial life and my W is literally laughing all the way to the bank. I sat there dumbfounded when the judge was delivering her order. I really thought I was in a wacko universe. I couldn't understand how a system would reward her for putting us in tens of thousands of dollars in debt, stop working in a high paying career field, and eventually quit working altogether, and somehow it was my fault.
If she had to take of herself totally there is no doubt in my mind she could easily get a job that pays her what she is getting from me and what she is making now. In fact, I would be surprised if she couldn't get much more than that, but there is no incentive to do that. It's like the people on unemployment. As long as the government kept extending the benefits the longer people stayed unemployed.
However; my W does not know I hold her job in low regards. Pettiness and anger will not improve my situation so I try to remain upbeat around her. I do want my W back. There is no denying it. But to be honest, I would be lying if finances were not part of the reasons I want to stay together. It's a small reason, but it is a reason.
I really appreciate all the responses. It's given me a lot to think about as I go through this.
One question I was asked by an employee once was this: What is the difference between VENTING and NEGATIVITY. I thought about it for a few days, and here's what I came up with:
VENTING is when the adversity you are facing temporarily exceeds your ability to cope. Finding yourself in the red zone you need to blow off some steam to a friend or outlet. But then, after cooling down, you look at your situation, take accountability, and ultimately do better in the future. You think about new ways to look at things, process it, and mentally prepare so next time this stimulus occurs you won't boil over again. You recognize that YOU are the thing that needs to change, and you make those changes.
NEGATIVITY starts the same, when the adversity you are facing temporarily exceeds your ability to cope, and blowing off steam to a friend or outlet. But then it shifts, and instead of holding yourself accountable, you go on to blame the world around us. You conclude that the world and people in it are the problem, and that there is no way you can not be upset or angry or negative as long as your environment and the people around remain unchanged. This leads to frustration with our inability to control things around us, and a repetitive cycle where we get upset about the same things again and again without growth or relief.
This helps me hold myself accountable. Everyone boils over sometimes. But at what point do we recognize that we only control ourselves and that we are responsible for doing so?
In regards to the comparison to welfare, that is a great example. It does stink to see the system misused, and there is definitely opportunity for improvements and reform. It helps me to remember that for me, personally, I would rather live in a world that has provisions in place to prevent people from living in destitute, even if that means I have to settle for lower speed internet, than to live in a world where there is no system in place, and the people that are dealt tough hands in life are ground up mercilessly.
Appreciate your kind words RDS. I resonate with so much of what you say. The fact that I can express your thoughts so clearly simply means I've felt so much of the same, the only difference is that I've been sorting through this for longer. It's good to be able to talk about it for sure, going over it again and again in our minds isn't spinning our wheels as long as we are doing so with the intention of constructing attitudes and narratives that ultimately allow us to be our best selves and find some peace of mind.
One question I was asked by an employee once was this: What is the difference between VENTING and NEGATIVITY. I thought about it for a few days, and here's what I came up with:
VENTING is when the adversity you are facing temporarily exceeds your ability to cope. Finding yourself in the red zone you need to blow off some steam to a friend or outlet. But then, after cooling down, you look at your situation, take accountability, and ultimately do better in the future. You think about new ways to look at things, process it, and mentally prepare so next time this stimulus occurs you won't boil over again. You recognize that YOU are the thing that needs to change, and you make those changes.
NEGATIVITY starts the same, when the adversity you are facing temporarily exceeds your ability to cope, and blowing off steam to a friend or outlet. But then it shifts, and instead of holding yourself accountable, you go on to blame the world around us. You conclude that the world and people in it are the problem, and that there is no way you can not be upset or angry or negative as long as your environment and the people around remain unchanged. This leads to frustration with our inability to control things around us, and a repetitive cycle where we get upset about the same things again and again without growth or relief.
This helps me hold myself accountable. Everyone boils over sometimes. But at what point do we recognize that we only control ourselves and that we are responsible for doing so?
In regards to the comparison to welfare, that is a great example. It does stink to see the system misused, and there is definitely opportunity for improvements and reform. It helps me to remember that for me, personally, I would rather live in a world that has provisions in place to prevent people from living in destitute, even if that means I have to settle for lower speed internet, than to live in a world where there is no system in place, and the people that are dealt tough hands in life are ground up mercilessly.
Appreciate your kind words RDS. I resonate with so much of what you say. The fact that I can express your thoughts so clearly simply means I've felt so much of the same, the only difference is that I've been sorting through this for longer. It's good to be able to talk about it for sure, going over it again and again in our minds isn't spinning our wheels as long as we are doing so with the intention of constructing attitudes and narratives that ultimately allow us to be our best selves and find some peace of mind.
Zeus!
You are on fire today with wisdoms and thoughts that must be pondered and applied.
Just had to give ya a virtual high 5 for the explanation of venting and negativity.
I've been looking for a simple and concise thought for that and I look no more because you have provided.
Thank you brother. I appreciate it.
RDS, good stuff to discuss and explore and so long as you can set your own terms for acceptance and move forward, you will arrive at a place that our friend Zeus has.
Good stuff today.
Well, today is my 32 year anniversary. I guess most people would assume if you’ve been married this long then it’s pretty much forever. Obviously it’s not forever. I don’t know what the day has in store for me as it’s just getting started. I’m not very sad, yet, but as the day goes by who knows how my emotions will run.
The last few anniversaries were a bit stiff anyway as we “celebrated” the date only because that is what you’re supposed to do, right? We went through the motions. Hell, the last two anniversaries we didn’t even make love. How screwed (no pun) up is that?
My mind does want to go back on our wedding day. My W was so happy. She kept telling me how much she loved me and how I made her the happiest woman in the world. I was happy too, but I was also nervous because I knew I had just made a huge decision in my life and from then on it wasn’t going to be only about me. It was going to be about us. I’m not yet there where it’s only about me. I’m working on it. I think most here can relate when I say I want it to be about us again.
My W and I have talked each night this week and each talk has been at least 100 minutes long. Yesterday she called me to check on me because my D and I had an argument about how I’m selling the house. I had stopped by my W’s office yesterday morning to have her sign some stuff pertaining to the house sale. My W could still tell I was still annoyed with me D from the argument I had the night before. She looked at me and said, “RDS, you’re looking like the old RDS. I want the new RDS back.” I stared back at her and gave her a big hug and thanked her for pointing it out to me. She called me later that night expressing her concern that she overstepped her bounds. I assured her she didn’t I was very appreciative of letting me know when I was going back to the “old” RDS. I wasn’t mad at my D anymore. I was a little disappointed my D was so opinionated and wouldn’t get me the support on mine and my W’s decision on selling the house.
This is the first time I’ve sent her a spousal support check. Usually she withdraws the money out of the account (after I give approval). I was hoping the check would arrive yesterday so we could discuss it. It didn’t and I don’t know if she will contact me with questions. I’m hoping she doesn’t until tomorrow. We will see.
Oh, and my water heater is dead. Nothing like taking a cold shower on your sad wedding anniversary to get you started for the day. I’m hoping it’s nothing more than the heating elements. One of the elements is corroded and some water is leaking from it. I do not want to change out the whole water heater. At least it will give me something to do tonight.
Just want to lend some support for you on this challenging day for you.
Hey, they say a cold shower is good for you. Lol
Good luck with the water heater though. What a pain to have to deal with.
Hang in there friend.
Thanks SuperHero. I appreciate the kind words. I'm actually looking forward to working on the water heater. I know it's been on borrowed time for awhile now as the water coming out was never as hot as it should have been.
Sunday is my 17th anniversary. I'm dreading it. It must be even harder with that much more shared time and memories. I feel your pain.
Also -- be careful with that water heater. Definite electrocution hazard if you don't know what you're doing (sounds like you do).
JRus, man I understand your pain. When we were at 17 years we were rocking and I never would have dreamed I would end up here. A few years later I got angry at my W, never could get over it, and I took it for granted she would always be there no matter what. I will never ever do that again.
I got the water heater working again. I changed the top and bottom heating elements and I changed the top thermostat. The bottom thermostat still looked good so I left it. The bottom element tested good as well but I went ahead and removed and replaced it also. I didn't know how bad my water heater had gotten. It's almost too hot now.
Yesterday my 32 year anniversary came and went okay. I really didn't get sad at all. If the anniversary was a couple of months ago when my W and I weren't communicating then I'm sure I would have been a blabbering idiot. I busied myself repairing my water heater and getting the house ready for the staging lady to come by later. We did not communicate yesterday.
Early this morning I texted my W a couple of times about some stuff she ordered through Amazon and about her spousal support check. I also told her about the water heater. She ended up calling me about 0530 and we talked for nearly an hour and it didn't seem that long. I didn't ask what she did yesterday or even mention our anniversary. I didn't think about it until the call ended. I'm still amazed I can talk to her on the phone for so long and not notice the time. One of the big regrets I've had since she left me was how much we shut each other out. It's a cliche, but I am rediscovering her and still learning about her even after all these years.
OUtstanding, RDS! Bossing a repair job like that is excellent GALing and, I'm sure, good for your soul.
And great job getting through your anniversary. I'm hoping I come through similarly unscathed.
As Mules says, "strength and honor".
Thanks JRuss. I really do appreciate the support. You're right, repairing the the water heater was a boss feeling. I had just discontinued the home warranty to save money. I always felt like the warranty was a waste of money but it gave my W piece of mind. I hoped the decision to stop the warranty service wouldn't bite me in the rear.
The parts to repair the water heater was $44 (including a special tool). The cost of the warranty is about $50 a month and a $75 service fee. So right off the bat I saved $80 and I got the water heater fixed the same day. Calling in a service request from the warranty company can take a couple of days. And even if the repair is simple you know doing the stuff yourself is a good feeling.
It’s been over a week since I’ve posted. Nothing new to report really. I’m working my butt off to get this house ready to be put on the market. My W is not doing much to help. She has occasionally dropped by early in the morning to give me some cleaning supplies and a listing of apartment complexes in the area for me to move to when the house is sold. I asked her to do that as a half joke/half serious request. While I’m making multiple trips to the dump and scrubbing the house I have to admit I do resent her somewhat for not taking a more active role in getting this house ready for sale. It’s almost like the last few years of our M. I was doing all the work while she sat back and took all the rewards. We’ve lived in this house for 14+ years and were married for 32 years so there is a lot of stuff we’ve accumulated that I am getting rid of, and in the stuff are lots and lots of memories or our time together. At least now she is acknowledging my work whereas before she seemed to be oblivious to what I was doing.
We continue to communicate freely on the phone and almost all conversations are two hours or longer. Since BD we have talked nearly 3,000 minutes on the phone, which is saying something when you consider the first two months we didn’t communicate at all. I am almost always happy when I talk to her on the phone. It’s when she drops by the house where I can barely contain my sadness. It’s a reminder that she isn’t with me anymore when she comes by and within minutes she is gone again. I can’t stand it. It seems as if she is dealing with this way better than I am. I wonder if I had left her as I had thought about before if my feelings would be different than what I’m going through as a LBS. I have to think I would be facing the world in a much better mood.
I know it’s way over melodramatic, but going through our belongings almost feels like I know what someone who is facing death is going through. All the memories of what was and knowing the future will not include us together. Being together for over 33 years is hard to throw away.
One of the topics we talked about today was things we did for each other that we misinterpreted its meaning. For example, my wife wanted to irritate me so she kept piling pillows on my side of the bed because she knew when I came to be I was pretty tired and wanted nothing more than to get in bed and go to sleep. I only need a pillow or two, yet she kept putting more and more pillows on my side. Eventually I would have 5-6 pillows I would clear from my side before I went to bed. I always thought she was being overly nice to me by giving me so many pillows but she was doing it to piss me off. When she told me this today we had a laugh about it. I actually thought it was funny she was trying to irritate me and all the while I thought it was amusing she was doing.
One thing she did say in a rather off-handed remark was how in a lot of other states getting a divorce is so much easier and quicker than it is here in SC and this state is so backwards. I might have read too much into it, but I sensed a sadness in her voice as if she wished she could have the divorce over and done with. I calmly replied that South Carolina is still an old school state and the laws are geared in trying to keep the marriage together as much as possible because marriage is still generally better than divorce. She didn’t really reply to that.
I am sure when I get my own place and out of this house full of memories my outlook on my marriage will brighten considerably.
I just have to get there first.