Hey - here are my old threads
Part 1
My story starting with BD, me crashing at my brothers house, my early mistakes, a court date, divorce papers filed, starting to DB with my wife, some progress, starting to detach, facing down huge life changes.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2683580&page=1Part 2
My vacation plans for the kids are cancelled due to my surgery, emergency medical situation, rehab and recovery. During this time I make progress in opening communication with my W - but I also become impatient and make some DB mistakes.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2687489&page=1Part 3
Still recovering from my emergency surgery, returning to work. DB activities, dealing with some divorce related legal processes. I lose all hope in reconciliation - major sadness and depression. At the end of the thread I get flamed by people on the board for wanting to go out and date again.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2691342#Post2691342
Honestly at this point I'm more focused on 'getting myself together/keeping it under control/moving on' than I am in reconciliation with my W. It just hurts too much to keep that hope alive.
If you're interested in flaming me please do so here. btw I have not gone out w that woman. Again I'm apologizing to MrBond and cat and everyone who seemingly came out of the woodwork to flame the hell out of me. I know you meant well. I think I reacted badly to being criticized because I was just not in a good state that day. I was dealing with a lot of *heavy* divorce related stuff from our last hearing - it was blowing my mind, and the cacophony of internet voices telling me what a crappy person I was caused me to flip out.
I guess you should let some time pass to get over the D issues. I get it though, i want to date too.
At this point this new woman has been calling me and I just am polite and curt with her, or I ignore it. In the past week I have realized this new woman is just as 'crazy' going through her divorce in her own way (dealing with abusive ex, worried about him exposing her daughter to his new gf etc.) and I realized neither of us should be dating.
If you're interested in flaming me please do so here.
I'm not interested in flaming you at all...
It took a lot of courage to come back here...
It's easy to see that you are hurting, and it's easy to lash out over the internet.
Nameless, faceless people...
Just please remember, that those people are also hurting, and just trying to find a way through their own private hell.
Yet, still find the time to reach out and help another lost soul..
The vets...they have also been through what you are going through. And whilst each story is different, they are all still somewhat the same.
We might not have asked for this, yet we still worked very hard to get here..we just didn't know that is what we are doing...
The vets posting to you, have moved past, and have created a life after their sitch, yet still take the time to come back to, and reach out to those who are hurting.
Most vets are simply trying to repay a program that helped save us from ourselves. DB works if you will let it. Maybe not in the form that we want, yet always, somehow, in the way that we need...
So let me ask you this...
I have read back, and you have talked a lot about the marriage, and your spouse...
What about you ??
Who are you inside ??
Oh, and maybe try to not take everything as an attack, and so personally....
Thick skin and a sense of humor will take you far here...
What about you ??
Who are you inside ??
I really think I've put in a lot of efforts to GAL. I go to 12 step every day at least once - I have ~120 days of sobriety now. 2-3 counselors and therapists at least several times weekly. I meditate and journal daily. Exercise as much as I can given doctors orders to 'take it easy'. Playing music again. Making big strides on developing my side business. Loving my kids when I'm with them.
But you may have meant 'who are you inside'? - as in, have I gotten to know myself? Have I learned anything? the answer is yes. It is a sad way to learn things but yes. I did a relationship inventory recently - I've only really had two really multi year LTRs - my wife and then the LTR I had in my 20s. Both relationships fizzled because I 'mentally check out' - not being abusive, not being mean, just generally spending more and more time alone working on my own hobbies - the music, the side business. The weed didn't help, although my former girlfriend didn't think anything of it. And then me being very defensive when asked to sacrifice my 'alone time', justifying it by saying that I spend so much time working I need to 'recharge' - pushing back when asked to go to social functions and activities that would take away from my alone time. Feeling complacent in the relationship, but not wanting to leave because I am comfortable if not totally happy. I think at some point I stopped feeling part of a 'partnership' and become very selfish with my time attention and emotions. I think my ex took this very hard, as a rejection of sorts on my part.
What I want in the future is to grow. Find a way to become a more balanced person with better communication skills and empathy - all without sacrificing time to work on my personal projects, which I really appreciate now that I'm alone. I also want to be more social, put more of a priority on other people instead of myself. Also now that I'm a single father I have to really pay close attention to how I'm handling myself in that regard.
Oh, and maybe try to not take everything as an attack, and so personally....
Thick skin and a sense of humor will take you far here...
I feel like I'm naturally pretty laid back - what I'm going through right now is so beyond the pale, sometimes I don't know if I'm fit to be out in public interacting with people. I have to really concentrate on keeping myself together sometimes.
What about you ??
Who are you inside ??
But you may have meant 'who are you inside'? - as in, have I gotten to know myself? Have I learned anything? the answer is yes. It is a sad way to learn things but yes. I did a relationship inventory recently - I've only really had two really multi year LTRs - my wife and then the LTR I had in my 20s. Both relationships fizzled because I 'mentally check out' - not being abusive, not being mean, just generally spending more and more time alone working on my own hobbies - the music, the side business. The weed didn't help, although my former girlfriend didn't think anything of it. And then me being very defensive when asked to sacrifice my 'alone time', justifying it by saying that I spend so much time working I need to 'recharge' - pushing back when asked to go to social functions and activities that would take away from my alone time. Feeling complacent in the relationship, but not wanting to leave because I am comfortable if not totally happy. I think at some point I stopped feeling part of a 'partnership' and become very selfish with my time attention and emotions. I think my ex took this very hard, as a rejection of sorts on my part.
What I want in the future is to grow. Find a way to become a more balanced person with better communication skills and empathy - all without sacrificing time to work on my personal projects, which I really appreciate now that I'm alone. I also want to be more social, put more of a priority on other people instead of myself. Also now that I'm a single father I have to really pay close attention to how I'm handling myself in that regard.
Great post... Spend some time being selfish, do your hobbies and be yourself... Really decide how much of that time you want to give someone else before you find someone else, if you find doing your own thing isn't as fulfilling as sharing your life with someone else, you'll be able to look back on that decision if you find yourself secluding yourself from someone again in the future.. Best to really know what you want before there is someone else.
Qt just swinging by to check in.
WOW how is your noggin. Lots o 2x4 to the old nut eh!?
I am glad to see that you came around and owned up to your reaction.
You had a lot of vets swing by to try and help out. Not sure I have ever seen that many pop into one thread. You should be grateful ( ha, there's one for your gratitude journaling)
Do heed their advice.
They have lived it.
Good advice all of it IMHO.
So enuff kicking the dead horse here.......
You sound to be in better spirits and moving on forward.
Keep at it bother.
Just here to applaud your title...
The biggest thing I noticed about your apology is that you blamed everyone for flaming you first which is what caused your reaction.
First of all, no one "flamed" you. No one here is a troll just looking to push your buttons on purpose. Go back and read and REALLY try to understand what they wrote.
Next, I really do mean it when I say that what your situation is with your spouse, who you are, etc. we really have seen it before. The faces are different, but the way you acted, the way you are looking at another woman, the way your W is acting, etc., we really have seen it before.
You are going to have to learn to understand what others are telling you so that you can grow as an individual and a man.
qt, sorry you're here.
My BD was over two years ago. It's been quite a road. I invite you to look up my original thread and read through my first 3-6 months. I'm glad I was posting. I might have blocked it out if I didn't have a record of it.
I haven't been posting on newcomers or these forums much lately for a couple of reasons. One is that as this crisis fades from the forefront of my life I don't share this in common with the other posters on this forum. And without this common ground I have realized how different I am, and while I don't feel I 'don't fit in', I just seem to beat to a different drum. But the other reason is that I often question my own well intentioned 'advice' to newcomers. Talking about what I went through, what I learned, etc, it doesn't change the fact you will have to go through what you go through, you will have to learn your own lessons, etc. Can anything I do actually help you through these troubled times? Will you be supported through your loss? Will you feel understood and validated when the woman that vowed to love you is making you the villain of her life story? Will something I say help you see something in a way that will help you avoid making destructive decisions in your life? I really wonder.
But I do think so. This forum was a tremendous help to me. I can tell you that this last two years of my life has been tougher than the other 35 put together. Posting about what I was going through was one of the things that kept me sane. And the advice from others was helpful for all of the reasons above. Not because others were wise and I was the bumbling apprentice, but because after you read a few hundred threads you see patterns, and you can start to see how the decisions you make today play out in the future, and how people's lives change.
Why the long preamble? Well, partly to introduce myself, and so you don't think I'm just hopping on this thread to throw stones, or to join what can seem like a chorus of criticism for being who you are. I feel like I have some things in common with you. I have always been very driven, tremendously successful professionally. I am a competitor, top pool player, competing in national and international tournaments, and a top 50 US player (or thereabouts, the rankings are kind of obscure). I am a perfectionist, I strive hard, I am very sensitive, and I swear that when the lord was passing out emotions, mine are stronger than those around me, because they are so intense it's just not possible that others can feel things as strongly as I do or they couldn't do or say some of the things they do that cause so much hurt.
Yup, those powerful emotions. I didn't know how to handle them. For 25 years I thought I had it figured out. I just told them to F off. I buried them. I played pool. I dissociated. I didn't need them. I would just focus on being the best in the world. Why not? What good were they? All they did was hurt. I learned that when I focused on a shot in front of me, everything else went away, and that I felt relief, just being in the moment, the pleasure of shooting one good shot. The emotions caused me pain, I walled it all off, turned all that pain into fire in my belly, and pursued perfection. I was going to be the best pool player in the world, and nothing else mattered. When they got too strong to wall off I'd think of ending it all, only to regroup and vow to be stronger. Well, long story longer, in the middle of this I decided to try to live a 'normal' life and get married, and needless to say that didn't work. I won't get started on that right now. I'll just say that bomb drop was soul shattering.
My biggest mission the last 24 months has been to learn to live WITH my emotions. For so, so long I didn't. I hated them, I resented them, I denied them. I tried to control them. I tried to transcend them. I tried to decide them. Making decisions about how I believed I wanted to feel, telling myself that's how I felt because that's how the person I wish I was ought to feel. Using twisted logic. "There's no reason in suffering over a woman that left me, that doesn't help, so I'll just be ok with it". LOL. Sure, if you take a razor and cut your mind apart from your heart and soul, twist things around enough, you can do almost anything.
But it didn't work out too well. Oh, I denied it. After all, I was tremendously successful. I told IC I wasn't crazy or delusional, it wasn't like I invented the fact that I had been promoted 4 times in 5 years, or that I had won all of those tournaments or money matches. IC replied "yeah, but you also haven't invented the fact that your W is divorcing you and that you have thought about suicide daily over the last few years". Good point he made. In the end I realized that I was suffering, that I didn't have the relationship I wanted. While I was very competent and gifted, I also see that me doing things my way wasn't getting me what I wanted.
What I thought I was doing was controlling my emotions. What actually happened was they were controlling me. Another funny IC exchange, my IC told me fear controlled my life. I laughed, I told him that I was fearless. I put myself out of my comfort zone every day. I am in a corporate sales world that is overridden with stress and anxiety. I gamble for so much money we don't count it, we weigh it, and there are big crowds watching my every move and betting on the outcome. I love looking fear dead in the eye and seeing who flinches first. I told this to IC, and he said "Like I said, fear controls you. I didn't say you ran from it. But you have contorted your entire life to face down fear again, and again, and again, as if these victories would rid you of that demon". Darn it. Guy is smart. And the same way fear controlled me when I thought I was controlling it, so too did so many other emotions.
I realized that if I am to have the life I want I have to learn to live with my emotions. Shoot. Those darn things. But if I don't, it won't work. Sure, I can blame women for being too entitled to appreciate a good man, I can blame God for making a world that doesn't work the way I wish it did. But ultimately I'm the one that suffers. Learning to live with my emotions was a doozy, I have an addict mentality from day one, I am used to controlling, distorting, avoiding, medicating, and so many other things to avoid them. But I have learned that letting them have their way with me isn't giving them control, it is actually taking control back.
IC told me it was like a board room where *I* am the decision maker. On the panel there are different people, different voices. There is fear, there is anger, there is logic, there is selfishness, whatever. Each has a voice. My job is to be able to hear all of their voices, then ultimately make the decision that is best for the company of me. But I need to hear all of those voices to make informed decisions, and I can't give any one of them control either directly (making decisions strictly out of fear, anger, pain, etc) or indirectly (letting them overpower me or me making decisions contrarily trying to overpower them).
So these days I tell myself not to use emotions as a compass to guide my life as they are inconsistent and unreliable, and not to use my thoughts to guide my life as they are usually just rationalizations that are reactions to those emotions. Instead I try to think of my core values and beliefs, and follow those to make my decisions. I believe I need to be a good father to my children. I believe I want to live in a way that when I look back I will be proud of. I believe I want to do what I can to make others that bump into me a little better off for the experience. Etc. I trust that if I strive to do those things, well, in the end it will all be ok. I don't know about happy, I think happiness is overrated but that's another rant for another day.
I see a lot in common with you. And reading others' advice and your reaction is hard. It's like watching someone that is drunk trying to get their keys back from their friend, insisting they can drive. My man, if you drink a 12 pack there is no shame in being drunk. That is a natural reaction, not a judgment on your ability to drive in general. Likewise when you go through BD, it WILL screw up your emotions, on top of some already questionable emotional management attitudes and skills that might have contributed to this situation. I am not faulting you for not being perfect, because no one is. But it is your job to understand that you are not in total control right now. The humility to be broken will allow you to be the person you want to be and grow into a strong man that is rewarded with the life you want. The insistence that you can manage it all and lead through because 'you got this', that is reckless. That is what we are trying to tell you. Maybe it is necessary. Maybe you haven't really hit 'rock bottom'. But when you do, when you truly reach the end of this idea that you have it all under control and surrender, please know that isn't the end. It's the beginning. It doesn't mean you are wrong now. It just means you are human. We're all right there with you my man. Keep posting, keep striving. Take care.
PS- here is what got me through my darkest hours in life. When the time comes all looks black please remember we care for you.
When you expect it least,
the ego,
declared dead,
will surge into your mind,
and in an instant
you will seem so far removed from Tao
as heaven from earth.
Has it ever happened to you?
Don't despair.
Let it go.
Do what comes next.
Accepting failure
is a humbling experience
akin to enlightenment.
In an instant you will discover
that heaven and earth are one and
that you have never been separated from Tao.
The Taoist sage
lives in harmony with failure
and never fails.
But you may have meant 'who are you inside'?
Yea....kinda
I did a relationship inventory recently
You did a relationship inventory using the tools that you already have. Probably not a fair assessment in the grand scheme of relationships...
I've only really had two really multi year LTRs - my wife and then the LTR I had in my 20s. Both relationships fizzled because I 'mentally check out' - not being abusive, not being mean, just generally spending more and more time alone working on my own hobbies - the music, the side business.
How much have you learned about the differences between being an introvert, and being an extrovert in styles of communication ?
Styles of life ?
Don't blame the weed, it didn't make those choices, you did...
although my former girlfriend didn't think anything of it. And then me being very defensive when asked to sacrifice my 'alone time'
You don't know that it didn't affect her.
That's the thing...we never know how our actions affect another person.
Typically, we interject how we want them to feel, or how we want them to react, and then that our assumptions are correct and develop behavioral patterns accordingly....
Fair ? Hardly.....
justifying it by saying that I spend so much time working I need to 'recharge' - pushing back when asked to go to social functions and activities that would take away from my alone time.
How effective were you in communicating that ?
How DID you communicate that ?
Feeling complacent in the relationship, but not wanting to leave because I am comfortable if not totally happy. I think at some point I stopped feeling part of a 'partnership' and become very selfish with my time attention and emotions. I think my ex took this very hard, as a rejection of sorts on my part.
If the situation was reversed, then I am sure that you would feel the same way.
Emotional abandonment
is a form of abuse....
What I want in the future is to grow. Find a way to become a more balanced person with better communication skills and empathy - all without sacrificing time to work on my personal projects, which I really appreciate now that I'm alone. I also want to be more social, put more of a priority on other people instead of myself. Also now that I'm a single father I have to really pay close attention to how I'm handling myself in that regard.
So what is your plan to get there ???
From what I have read, you seem to REACT emotionally in most situations. You did it with her, and you did it the other day.
Stop thinking that everyone is planning your doom.
Thinking is what got you here...
I would also suggest that you narrow down the things that you want to work on, and really focus on the specific areas that you want to change.
Too much at once will leave you just touching the surface, and really never change specific patterns of behavior.
A WAS can smell fake, like Oprah can smell a Twinkie at a picnic..
Change for YOU, not to get her back...
Get back to DB101...
Goals
GAL
Don't go down cheeseless tunnels
Act as if
48 hour rule
And please stop thinking that you have no choice in this.
You made most of your choices already. Her filing, is simply a reaction to her choices, amongst some other things.
And please stop thinking that, even though the legal process MAY be followed through...
That you cannot have a relationship with your spouse in the future...
However, everything MUST be different when that happens.
Most of all.....you
But the other reason is that I often question my own well intentioned 'advice' to newcomers. Talking about what I went through, what I learned, etc, it doesn't change the fact you will have to go through what you go through, you will have to learn your own lessons, etc. Can anything I do actually help you through these troubled times? Will you be supported through your loss? Will you feel understood and validated when the woman that vowed to love you is making you the villain of her life story? Will something I say help you see something in a way that will help you avoid making destructive decisions in your life? I really wonder.
Yeah I feel the same way when commenting on other newcomers threads. Nothing I can say will minimize the how those people experience the emotional devastation. I do think that the 2x4s helped me avoid the destructive decision of starting to date too early, so in that particular case it was helpful.
But I do think so. This forum was a tremendous help to me. I can tell you that this last two years of my life has been tougher than the other 35 put together. Posting about what I was going through was one of the things that kept me sane.
Oh man, I'm already anticipating a rough couple of years ahead. Yeah I guess I should clarify that my reasons for posting have evolved from - wanting advice on how to 'get my wife back', to 'just wanting to sort out everything in my head', and journaling is a good way to do it.
Yeah, it sounds like we have similar personalities. That kind of success is often achieved by people who are narrowly focused and driven. Let me guess - your ex did not understand your drive to achieve at a certain level, this caused resentment, which caused you to bury yourself in your work as well? We bury ourselves in our work and pursuing success, and its understandable - isn't that what we're supposed to do? Isn't that the advantage of being married - once our home life is sorted, we can focus on pursuing other goals? And we're taught as men to be stoic and ignore our emotions. One thought I had is - that not dealing with relationship problems has its price, often you don't pay it until much later on.
Little fights and comments will come back to haunt you long after you've forgotten them.
Maybe you haven't really hit 'rock bottom'. But when you do, when you truly reach the end of this idea that you have it all under control and surrender, please know that isn't the end. It's the beginning. It doesn't mean you are wrong now. It just means you are human. We're all right there with you my man. Keep posting, keep striving. Take care.
Oh god I hope that I already have, I can't take anymore pain. It's a struggle just to keep it under control right now.
Is divorce really a failure? Is that a healthy attitude? People who are not married break up after LTR - nobody brands them as 'failures'? Isn't it healthier to say divorce is just something that happens, you did the best with what you knew at the time, noone is to blame, and the best is just learn from it and grow.
How effective were you in communicating that ?
How DID you communicate that ?
Well these discussions turned into fights. I tried to explain my need to focus on certain things, but I probably was overly defensive and argumentative. In the end I don't think we were able to resolve my need to focus on my goals with her need to feel more connected in the relationship and lead a more vibrant social life while married. This was both of our faults - but I was the one who was lying and smoking weed, so it became more of my fault.
And please stop thinking that, even though the legal process MAY be followed through...
That you cannot have a relationship with your spouse in the future...
The legal process is causing me so much pain right now it's crazy - every week there's another BD that makes me feel like my world is exploding. I have to let go of any possibility of reconciliation right now, it's just too painful to hold onto that hope.
I feel like a lot of my lashing out in my previous thread had to do with people advising me as if the main objective should be to preserve that possibility of R with my wife - and my feeling that I need to totally cut out all hope of reconciliation right now because hanging on like that is causing me so much heartache.
The legal process is causing me so much pain right now it's crazy - every week there's another BD that makes me feel like my world is exploding. I have to let go of any possibility of reconciliation right now, it's just too painful to hold onto that hope.
I feel like a lot of my lashing out in my previous thread had to do with people advising me as if the main objective should be to preserve that possibility of R with my wife - and my feeling that I need to totally cut out all hope of reconciliation right now because hanging on like that is causing me so much heartache.
I didn't say that it would, I said that it could....
Hope is a fickle thing....
Shawshank Redemption ???
Kind of like that...
Work toward "you", and IF "us" happens ???
Then you cross that bridge...
As far as the hurt ?
Feel it, let it burn right through you. Use it for fuel to make it another day...
Use your anger as a shield, NOT as a sword...
The day that I hit MY rock bottom with this, I went outside and screamed at God to give me everything that he had, so that I would know my breaking point....
Yes, I buried myself in my work, and in my competition. My M was horrible, I coped the best I could.
Is divorce really a failure? Is that a healthy attitude? People who are not married break up after LTR - nobody brands them as 'failures'? Isn't it healthier to say divorce is just something that happens, you did the best with what you knew at the time, noone is to blame, and the best is just learn from it and grow.
Here's the thing. People can say whatever they want. But reality is reality.
Everyone has a personal narrative. My XW can say that she needed to get D for her survival. People can say that children are resilient. I can say that divorce is a catalyst for personal growth.
That doesn't change the facts. The fact is that XW chose to get divorced, that my children are impacted forever, and that D is the most monumental loss I'll ever face.
One of my main points of my last post was that we can't simply decide in our heads how we want things to be. That's crazy. They are how they are. If something hurts, we can't just hit the bong and say "I'm a positive guy, so I'll just look at it in a positive light, and now it's all groovey maaaan..." Well, we can, but as long as we avoid the reality of our situation and our emotions we will be suppressing a lot, dissociated, reacting to stuff we don't understand, seem super sensitive and a bit crazy to those around us because they don't see the same delusions we are trying to buy into.
Everyone does this a bit now and then, but at least be aware of it. WAS's rewrite history. LBS's diagnose their WAS's. Trust me, read a few hundred threads and you'll start to see the patterns in the way the LBS's react to their partner's leaving them. They feel the same feelings, think the same thoughts, and latch on to the same narratives and stories. So what I'm trying to tell you is not to be too sure of yourself or your conclusions. The most sane thing you can do is realize you're emotional and crazy, and not act on your emotions, your thoughts (reactions/rationalizations), etc. That is why I said it was like driving drunk, and why other people are preaching a 48 hour rule and avoiding major life decisions. It's a good time to keep your mouth shut, do nothing, journal, observe the patterns of others, watch yourself spin through a few cycles of your own craziness, and see where you are in 90 days. If I'm wrong and your feelings, thoughts, and beliefs are absolutely consistent, then hey, you didn't get laid for two months you could've been banging some skank. But if I'm right, you might avoid crashing your car (your life).
PS- I'm not advising you to "hold onto hope" for your M. I just don't think your next few months should look any different whether you do or don't long for R.
MrBond,
Where is your story please?
I know that you are one of the few that reconciled after your wife was in major MLC.
How long was your wife in a MLC?
Was there an OM?
Did you do no contact, for how long?
Etc....
Thanks.
Sorry for the hijack qt4x11.
Cld,
There was OM in my sitch and it took my W 5 years to get out of the fog. It took some digging but here is how I dealt with the OM.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2511224
Sorry for the hijack qt4x11.
MrBond,
Wow! 5 years! and your daughter is 5 so she was an infant when she left!
Did you get divorced? Did you remarry?
Did you find a girlfriend during those 5 years?
Did your wife have a troubled childhood? Did her parents get divorced?
After how many years did your wife start to become friendly?
Sorry I never did get around to changing my signature line. We reconciled. My kids are now 9 and 13. No girlfriend although I went out with girls who were friends. They were invaluable as to giving me the female perspective. My W's parents were D'd where her dad just left when she was 7 and never came home.
In terms of how long it took her to be friendly. it was a long process of her allowing herself to trust again. During that time I GAL and became a heck of a great dad. I also read and learned everything I could about M, relationships, As, human behavior, MLC and even how to read body language like the FBI does in order to read my W's moods since she wasn't the type to open up.
Like everyone else, I had people telling me to give it up, etc. But my gut told me to stick it out and that no matter all the spew she would say, she was saying it out of pain.
Interesting... thanks for that insight into your story mrbond
She sounds a lot like my wife, her parents divorced when she was 7 and her father left. I admire you for waiting five years. You give me hope, you are a hero!
Just like you I am reading tons of books about marriage and trying to be a great dad.
I assume that you got divorced because the divorce process moves faster the the MLC usually. The most important thing is that you were able to save the relationship, who really cares about the legal marriage. Reading your story and many others made me realize that some women especially those who came from broken families just HAVE to get divorced.They can't stop it. Later I am sure that they'll regret it tho. MrBond please share with us as many details as possible. I really would like to learn from you. Thanks!
I can post on your thread since I don't want to hijack this one any further.
I will say again, that I did not "WAIT" for my W. I simply lived my life and did things that made ME happy. I stopped trying to think what she was doing or thinking and didn't walk on eggshells around her. I lived for me and not her. That's a mistake that many LBSs make after the bomb drop.
This is my thread MrBond.
What about the kids?
I keep telling them that I will wait for mom to come back, that I love her and that I won't look for another woman, because I want them to be emotionally stable and not lose hope. I don't say any of that to their mother. I act short and uninterested.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...403#Post2698403
This is most likely my last post, a I am taking a leave of absence from here.
Women who come from broken homes don't have to get a divorce.
I'll be honest, it irritates the heck out of me every time you make that generalization. It's quite insulting to us women who did come from a "broken" home who had come here because they valued their M and fought not to get a divorce.
If that's the only reason why you think your wife wants a divorce, you have some very deep digging to do and some major work on yourself that needs to be done while you "wait" around for your W to "snap" out of her MLC.
And this isn't your thread. It's Q's.
So I am going to get off of it now.
best of luck to you.
Ginger1,
I just read a new study yesterday.
White females who come from broken homes are 90% likely to divorce themselves, more than any other group. Now you say that you are fighting for your marriage, but maybe you are the one who pushed your husband away by criticizing and complaining all the time, which is something men absolutely hate.
Ginger1,
I just read a new study yesterday.
White females who come from broken homes are 90% likely to divorce themselves, more than any other group. Now you say that you are fighting for your marriage, but maybe you are the one who pushed your husband away by criticizing and complaining all the time, which is something men absolutely hate.
I should not even dare to go here. Do you have any idea how skewed statistics are? Very skewed.
And holy crap. actually, my ex criticized me, was down right verbally abusive to me, and he was the complainer. Nothing was good enough for him. When I spoke up for myself, that's when he decided to take on another woman who takes the abuse.
You are unbelievable, and no, I don't think your wife left because her parents divorced when her parents were 7 and she had because her daughter was 7.
It's clear it goes much deeper than that.
If you want ANY chance at saving your M, you better look deep inside yourself, and stop looking so hard into statistics.
Mr. Bond saved him M, not by sitting around waiting for his W to 'snap out of it" He became a man only a fool would leave. He looked inside, he did the work.
Ginger1,
I forgot to add arguing.
Men also don't like to argue, that's why I am not going to argue with you.
No one was arguing. You are just so closed-minded you cannot listen to some actual feedback that might help you, if involves some work on your part.
Good luck sitting around, continuing to be ignorant and sexist and have fun with your statistics.
Cld and Ginger1,
Are the two of you married to each other?
Ginger1 wished so, but not me.
Just what I thought! I can see that spark from miles away.
First I want to apologize for the hijack of this thread...
Sometimes it happens though.
Ginger1,
I forgot to add arguing.
Men also don't like to argue, that's why I am not going to argue with you.
CLD,
Women don't like to argue here. However, attempting to have the last word...isn't only arguing...it is controlling.
And the way you did it, by trying to end the conversation, is also controlling.
Prior to reading all of this fun, I had been just reading your threads this morning. Mostly because I had read some posts by you that left me scratching my head and because I read an interaction between you and this thread's owner that left me feeling badly for you.
I can say I don't really feel that way anymore.
Do you have any idea how easily statistics can be manipulated? That is what often occurs, especially in studies that are not based in a physical science. So you can hold onto your numbers as hard as you want and they really don't mean all that much.
Yes divorce is easy in America. Maybe too easy, however it is the place we live in. I have to say I would much rather be here than somewhere where I have little to no rights simply because I am female.
What I see you failing to realize is your role in any of this. You argue, you dismiss when you have had enough. You find numbers that support your belief, when there are just as many if not more studies out there that don't support you.
You have many times broken the TOS of this board and have been warned about it....
This shows me you have little regard for the rules here, and that more than likely translates into other areas of your life.
Your mind is by no means open and apparently you believe that since you are not contacting your W, that you are no longer trying to control her.
I won't get into how you are dealing with your children other than to say I agree very much with the others who posted to you, although, you, who I don't believe has any sort of training in the best way to deal with children psychologically, want to tell those people they are wrong.
I am glad that you find inspiration in Mr. Bond's story, although I believe the outcome is all you are really seeing. If you want to truly learn from him, from these boards, from the strong male vets who post or posted here, don't simply look at the outcome.
Mr. Bond didn't wait for his W. He lived. He learned. He became an incredible man. A good man. And he got lucky that his W returned. I guarantee you, many of the men he was using as his examples, were not so lucky in that same way. But they will tell you they were lucky and wouldn't trade who they are now for anything.
Maybe it is time you try to learn from them instead of your statistics and your studies...
Look them up...Bworl, Mach1, Truegritter, Starsky309, Jack3beans...
Good luck to you sir. And any woman you meet if you don't change your ways....
I am not going to argue with you either, cat04.
Dismissing statistics is like dismissing math, it's like saying that 2+2=5.
I am not going to argue with you either, cat04.
Dismissing statistics is like dismissing math, it's like saying that 2+2=5.
Not going to argue...
Yet you DID argue...
Hmmm....
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain
Look them up...Bworl, Mach1, Truegritter, Starsky309, Jack3beans...
*sniff*
Look them up...Bworl, Mach1, Truegritter, Starsky309, Jack3beans...
*sniff*
I am so sorry my friend.
I just didn't think people could learn much from your wordy posts
I just didn't think people could learn much from your wordy posts
Well, I you left Eric out too so I guess I shouldn't feel so bad.
Both ends of the spectrum, as it were.
Hey I’ve been pretty silent lately because I’ve been trying to stay off the internet divorce forums as much as possible, and also cut down on stuff like listening to divorce podcasts and such. It’s a waste of time at this point for me, I’ve done so much research on the subject of ‘early stages of divorce’ I feel like I could write my own book. How many times can you read ‘it gets better, just give it time’ and ‘work on yourself’?
That being said, I do have some updates on my efforts to work on myself, which I’ll post later. I’ve been keeping busy and trying to live a healthy lifestyle.
One thing I did recently was I wrote up a ‘during and post-divorce to do list’. Things I want to do in my life before I get involved in any new serious relationships:
- Kick @ss at my job, really give it my all. Try to get a promotion or raise soon.
- Grow my side business - a mobile app development studio - to the point where it’s bringing in some sizable cash flow.
- Really get in touch with myself, through therapy/meditation/journaling, whatever it takes. Really understand what it is inside of me that contributed to the demise of my first marriage. Let go of whatever was beyond my control or her fault in our divorce situation, and work to improve myself so this situation does not happen again.
- Make sure that the kids are alright through all of this, spend as much quality time with them as I can, and attend all of their school activities.
- Get my finances together post divorce. Pay off my huge legal fees and establish a savings cushion.
- Buy a new house.
- Get a dog.
- Play guitar every day, write songs, record my second album.
- Once the doctor says its alright - start exercising again, watch my diet, and get back in shape.
- Go to at least one social function a week. Make new friends, establish new social networks.
qt4x11,
I like your to-do list!
qt4x11,
I like your to do list as well.
You list is a very well thought out one. The only changes I would make is to move the last two activities to the top. There is no reason that these two can't be worked on while you are working on the others. Making new friends and establishing new social networks. The more new friends you meeting, the more activities you may become involved in and enjoy w/the new found friends.
Yeah I have been trying to branch out more, and I’ve been trying to fight my natural tendency to forgo social situations and withdrawing into my hobbies and personal development activities. I’d really like to develop a network of friends that support me and that I can go out and have fun with. It’s been slow going, my wife took most of my couple friends and a lot of the friendships I had pre marriage have sort of withered away. I met some new people, mostly through meet up groups, 12 step meetings, and friends. Some of whom I talk to on the phone, there’s one guy I think is pretty cool - he’s an older guy who just got divorced, we’ve been talking on the phone about our evil ex wives. We’re going to go out for a drink this weekend and attend a meet up group together. There’s another guy who I met through my friend J, who’s pretty crazy and/or weird, but would be a fun guy to have along with me and J at the bars. One thing I’d like to start doing - I spend a lot of my time in ’12 step’ or ‘divorce support’ related meet ups and social situations. I’d like to start doing just ‘fun and social’ related meet ups.
I went over to my friend J’s house to watch the UFC a couple of weeks ago - he’s a great guy, he seems to be dating a good woman now and I’m happy for him. It was good to catch up with J. I took the kids with me to my friends birthday party at the Arlington Park, they got to see the horses and I lost $100 betting on the horse races, that was fun although I am still having difficulty adjusting to the ‘recently divorced guy with kids’ identity around my friends and family. I went to an Entrepreneur meet up group, that was pretty interesting. Last weekend was my birthday. My family really went all out and they threw me two parties - cousins and family friends came, people drove in from four hours away to attend these parties. I feel grateful to have a family that cares, I guess, but I feel sort of ashamed and embarrassed. I still feel a sense of failure, this is my first birthday without my wife in more than ten years. I think everyone just feels sorry for me.
In general I’m feeling more calm these days. In the past week I’ve been able to attend to some challenging divorce related situations, and I noticed that they did not affect me as strongly as they would have in the past. I think a lot of my more resilient mental state has to do with my realization of a couple things:
I have been through a really traumatic experience. My most trusted person suddenly turned on me and branded me as the villain of her life. I’ve lost my wife, my kids half of the time, a good chunk of my income now goes to child support and maintenance, I’ve lost my house, I’ve lost my dog. I have been living out of a suitcase for almost 4 months. I’ve lost my identity. I’ve had health issues, I’ve had to undergo emergency surgery in which I almost died. I had to take a month off from work on temporary disability. I’ve had the police called on me. I’ve spend tens of thousands on lawyers. I’ve lost friends and family members. I’m damaged, at this point I have to turn my attention from my wife onto myself. I have to focus on healing myself right now and surviving this situation, if anything for my kids sake. I can’t worry about my wife at this point, and I don’t expect to somehow change her mind.
The thing that helped me the most regain clarity is to stop thinking about my wife and stop obsessing over the divorce. Stop the excruciating overthinking process in which I rehash the ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’ of my marital problems over and over. In the first couple of months, these thoughts flooded my mind 24/7. It’s unhealthy, this type of thinking, it reinforces negativity, it may lead to depression, and it destroys your self esteem. I have to push these thoughts out of my mind as much as possible. I find the best way for me is meditation, and keeping as busy as possible. I have really come to value activities that are healthy and take my mind off my divorce situation - immersing myself in my work, working on my side business in my free time, putting myself in social situations, exercising, etc.
My wife really pissed me off last weekend. I did her a favor by dropping off my son so he could make his doctor appointment, I offered to drive him to our house. She called up and said she is taking her mom to a restaurant for lunch and we could just meet there as it was halfway. I show up at the restaurant and she is there with all her girlfriends, who I’d imagine have been talking smack about me and despise me at this point. Another embarrassing and depressing situation. I sort of felt down about that the rest of the day.
We’re supposed to split our bank accounts, nothing has happened so far on that afaik. She is also supposed to move out of the house, I’m supposed to move back in. I’m supposed to live at our condo and fix it up so we can sell it and split the equity in the house. She still has not moved out. The kids are supposed to switch schools, they’ll be moving to a different part of town. The whole situation is heartbreaking to me, it would be real concrete steps towards the splitting up of our family. I’m dreading it and I’m trying not to think about it.
My thoughts have really shifted from - how do I get my wife to change her mind, to boy it’s going to be hard to adjust to my new financial situation. How are the kids holding up in all of this? It’s going to be so awkward - only having them half of the time, and having this other person, who I only communicate with in a business like manner, raise my children and make decisions about their lives. God this situation will also last for the rest of our lives. So awkward and depressing.
I talked to my daughter and she says she is fine and kissed me. Bless her little heart, I’m not just worried about her for now I’m worried about her for the rest of her life and how this will affect her.
Qt4x11,
Amazing how many things we have in common, it's basically the same situation, the age of our children, your wife called the cops on you, I also have a mobile app business, and a lot more.
This is how I look at it. To me nothing has changed. I still go to work, see the kids and try to grow the business.
I act as if my wife went on a vacation abroad for a few years and I am alone with the kids. I just keep telling them that I love mommy to calm them down, not to win her back, and that she might come back in a few years. Absolutely nothing is set in stones, the divorce is just a piece of paper. She decided to get divorced suddenly one day and she might decide to come back to her senses someday suddenly as well. I don't think it would be good if she wanted to move back with me because I enjoy my space too much right now. As long as she doesn't find another man there is still a lot of hope and if I show her that I am a rock and that I am committed to the family no matter what, she might come back to her senses even faster. Only time will tell, right now I am doing good.
Hugs,
Cld
I understand it's hard, but it seems like some of the conflict and anger towards your W is self-inflicted.
For example, you said
"My wife really pissed me off last weekend. I did her a favor by dropping off my son so he could make his doctor appointment, I offered to drive him to our house. She called up and said she is taking her mom to a restaurant for lunch and we could just meet there as it was halfway. I show up at the restaurant and she is there with all her girlfriends, who I’d imagine have been talking smack about me and despise me at this point. Another embarrassing and depressing situation. I sort of felt down about that the rest of the day."
I don't see where SHE specifically pissed you off. And alot of what you THOUGHT they talked about was "imagined" by you. In any event, I'm sure your family and friends (to a certain degree) talk badly about the XW as well. Let it go.
Absolutely nothing is set in stones, the divorce is just a piece of paper.
that she might come back in a few years.
As long as she doesn't find another man there is still a lot of hope and if I show her that I am a rock and that I am committed to the family no matter what, she might come back to her senses even faster
Is this a healthy attitude? You have been going through a tough situation even longer than me and your wife has treated you just as badly. I would ask you to consider really letting her go, and none of this talk about 'she might come back as long as there is another man'. What about you? You deserve to be happy, and keeping this hope alive of her changing her mind even after the divorce is finalized ... that is not helping you to move forward.
And what if three years from now she finds another man? What will you do then? You will have wasted three years secretly hoping that she would change her mind. Let her go emotionally, accept that the divorce is happening and she is not changing her mind.
If she does change her mind it will come as a surprise, and you will deal with it then. But move forward and get healthy for you, and for your kids.
qt4x11,
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. If it was only me I would have found a new girlfriend right after she filed for divorce, but we have two children and my boy is 3 so it means that I will have to deal with his mother for 15 more years.
In those 15 years she could destroy me financially, drag me to court for every little thing and even send me to jail. Unfortunately this is the reality we live in, judges believe women even when they lie.
I need to keep below profile, fully aware that I need to act in the best interest of the children no matter what. Every time I make a decision I ask myself, is this in the best interest of the children? If I were a child, would I want my dad to do this?
I am not saying that you have to act this way as well. This is just the way I was raised, I need to sacrifice my needs for the benefit of my children. Right now the mother of my children is just a scary monster that I don't want to be around, but who knows, maybe 5 years from now she will become the most positive, smiling, friendly, loving person that I know. We will see.
qt,
I don't normally post to you, but I thought these two paragraphs would help some who are reading your thread. Jack3Beans over on the MLC Forum posted the paragraphs in a new thread he's created today and they are very, very wise words:
"Your children are not your support during this process, you do not use them against the MLCer. You do not make them into allies, you protect them, and you are their support. You do your best to kill the vicious cycle and prevent your children from going down the MLC road later on in life and doing this to another person.
You could get through this if only they didn't do this to the children. The children do not become your excuse to be angry at your spouse. You take on the responsibility of a single parent now and you become the best single parent in the world. Shower your kids with love, but, very important you also have the responsibility to raise good people later. Bear that in mind, do not over compensate. Your children will be ok as long as you are."
When dealing w/children, especially very young children, reassure them that they are going to be okay. Tell them that you and mommy love them. You can reassure them by letting them know that you will be there for them and that they can talk to you about anything. Be sure to reassure them that they are not the cause of the situation as well. Validate their thoughts/concerns/feelings. This will help them to know that you care. I don't advise sharing too much of the situation between mommy and daddy w/them. This usually can stir up the anxiety just a wee bit and do not talk to them as if they are adults because they truly do not understand why their parents are separated/divorces.
Cld, I'm glad that you take time out to ask yourself if your actions are in the best interest of the children. It's important not to use the children as "weapons or bargaining chips" w/the separated/divorced spouse. It's also important not to say things to the children that can be taken back to their mommy, such as promising that you and mommy may get back together in a couple of years or you aren't going to date, etc. Children have a way of holding on to these statements and will revisit them if things fall through or you do get involved w/someone else down the road. It's best to keep those comments to ourselves because children do have a way of taking that info back to mommy and asking her about it. Children are the innocents here and we need to help them remain innocent for as long as possible. Kids today are growing up too fast and not experiencing their childhoods in a healthy manner. What is going on between mommy and daddy needs to stay in the adult arena.
I also want to point out that both women and men will stretch the truth when it comes to separation/divorce. It is up to your lawyers to work w/each party and document the financials, address the restraining orders, as well as any allegations of child abuse, custody issues, etc. Documentation is then presented in court to the judge to determine if documentation is valid or not. Not all judges believe the lies both women and men present. There are some good judges out there, just as there are some good lawyers. Bottom line, it's not just women who will go to extreme lengths to get what they want in a settlement...
"You deserve to be happy, and keeping this hope alive of her changing her mind even after the divorce is finalized ... that is not helping you to move forward. "
That's an individual's choice. You can still have a very fulfilling life. You just don't make the X a central part of yours. Alot of people don't understand that.
MrBond,
Michelle Weiner Davis says "Don't lose hope, she will come back, you just have to believe that she will".
See video below
https://youtu.be/WHvV55IpAxk
Cld,
I may be interpreting Mr. Bond's posting the wrong way, but I don't think I am. I don't think Mr. Bond is saying to move on. He's saying to move forward. Moving forward is living your life to the fullest and yet, you can leave the door ajar. It means that you don't just sit there in the same place that the spouse has left you and just wait and wait and don't experience life. It means you live your life and go out there and enjoy yourself and do the things you've not done in a long time or you learn new things as you walk the path. This also doesn't mean you have to date someone, but you certainly could meet some new people who enjoy the same interests as you. That's why we emphasize GAL here...to keep people moving forward and learning how to keep the focus on themselves and their children.
My interpretation of moving on is doing just that...it's over and you are moving on and not looking back.
Job,
I don't think there is anything wrong in staying in the exact same place where I was before. I don't feel like doing anything new or extravagant. In fact I just want to show the kids that nothing has changed other than mommy not living at home anymore. I want to look like a rock to them. My wife is acting like the wind right now, she is running left and right. Not me, I am the rock, I am the mountain and what she is doing is only temporary and unimportant. I will be there when she comes back to her senses.
job is correct as usual.
This is qtx411's thread, but I did want to respond to what Cld said.
"I will be there when she comes back to her senses."
You are still under the impression that this is a momentary lapse of insanity. It may and it may not be. Either way it's what your W believes she needs to do in order to grow and be happy. It has become a part of her. By you constantly denying it with your reasoning about her past, etc. shows that you're not trying to understand where she's coming from. Put it this way, the next OM that comes along is going to do exactly that. Listen to her and understand her POV. You don't have to agree with what she's doing but she has a right to do so.
qtx411, it's up to you what you want to do, but it comes down to you. If you don't want your W any more, then move on with someone else. Although I would suggest learning to be happy without someone so your happiness isn't tied to another person.
MrBond,
She left, not me.
If she wants to come back together she needs to put 100% of the effort into that, not me. I would much rather not interact with her if she keeps being negative and complaining, and right now that's all she is doing. I am waiting for the positive smiling wife to come back, not the person that possessed her body lately.
Cld,
"She left, not me."
Yes I get that.
"If she wants to come back together she needs to put 100% of the effort into that, not me. I would much rather not interact with her if she keeps being negative and complaining, and right now that's all she is doing. I am waiting for the positive smiling wife to come back, not the person that possessed her body lately."
You do understand that this shows more arrogance on your part. She left you, yet you create a standard that she has to meet in order to come back to you. She's gone. She's her own person. The person who she is now just might be the person she really is. Your non-acceptance of that shows that you are concentrating on her than on you. Everyone who has saved their M has learned to let go and accept the way their spouse has become with no control on the part of the LBS.
MrBond,
As I said before.
If this is really the way she is going to be from now on I don't want to interact with her and I don't think that any sane man would want that either, not for very long. They might use her for sex, but that's it.
qt
How are you doing of late?
What is the word?
I hope all is well.....as well as can be for you.
Cld again shows he has no idea what he's talking about. I understand you mean well but because of your close mindedness you don"t really understand what"s going on. And the advice that you seem to give everyone is off base because you just think that all WASs leave because of certain conditions. They don't.
qt
How are you doing of late?
What is the word?
I hope all is well.....as well as can be for you.
Hey SH. Hope you're good. I'm hanging in there, I'm about to post something ....
It’s been about a week. I’ve been alright, I consider it a good week these days if I don’t get severe panic attacks or become morbidly depressed about some divorce related issue. Wife took the kids out of state to see her family, we had some back and forth before she left about selling the house, and she plans to move out this week or next. I think the kids are supposed to start school at their new school district this week. So I’ve been staying at my moms this past week. I really start missing the kids if I go a week without seeing them, but I’m supposed to get them for the weekend. I have plans to do something special for my little girl on her birthday and my family has already bought her presents.
Mostly I try to keep busy. My ‘life coach’ was really proud of me, that I was doing so many positive things in my life and really doing the work it takes to recover from this breakup. I told him, it’s really just survival. I found that keeping myself as busy as possible was the best way to keep myself from obsessing over the anxiety provoking divorce situation, and rehashing the ‘what ifs’ regarding our relationship. It’s simply unhealthy to focus so much on what is now the past, and replaying such negative thoughts in your head will only make you depressed and erode your self esteem. I have to try to get healthy and take care of myself right now. My wife has basically become a cold, scary stranger to me. We don’t talk except about the kids right now. I try to avoid interacting with her because it brings me down every single time. I don’t expect her to change her mind. I feel like she is really gone.
I really live my life these days according to my to do list app. I try to check off as many things as possible, and I try to fill my days with activities that will help me grow as a person. The majority of times I work. I try to really focus on my job, and I’ve been devoting a lot of spare time to working on my mobile app business. This past week I finished a new app to the point where it just needs the touch of a graphic designer and some nice icons, the actually functionality is done. I’m pretty proud of myself for that. I also finished another online business class. I told my divorce support group that I’m not going to focus on dating in my post-divorce life, I’m just going to focus on becoming rich. Now that the marriage is over - I feel like I don’t believe in love anymore, and there’s nothing left for me now but to try to become a huge success in business.
I wrote a song last week too, and my music is coming along pretty well. I’ve been playing a lot the past couple of months, a lot more than when I was married. I’m really going to try for my second album by next summer. Let’s see. I’ve been running longer distances - I think in a week or two I can start lifting weights again. I hung out with my brothers and cousins one night for poker night, and I also met up with a new friend I made through a divorce support group for dinner.
Life is just moving on. I don’t feel happy, I’m lucky if I don’t feel sad out of my mind. Everything’s changing so fast, I’m just trying to keep it together without becoming overwhelmed. Most of the time I just feel flat and empty, or I feel restless and neurotic - like I’m crawling out of my skin. Intellectually, I know that there’s a way forward - if I focus on taking care of myself and becoming a better person, being positive - things will definitely improve. How can they not improve? I’m at the low point of my life right now. But - I’m having trouble picturing how things could get better. I’ve lost so much - my wife of 9 years, my kids half the time, my house, a sizable portion of my monthly income, my dog, my identity - a dream we once shared of growing old together. Some of these things can be replaced, but some things cannot be replaced, and some things are forever broken.
I don’t know how to deal with these things right now. The thing that gets me most is thinking about the kids. I will miss so much of them growing up because I simply will not be there anymore, and possibly other people will step in to fill the role of father figure at least part of the time. This thing about co parenting - to think for the rest of my kids lives, someone who I can barely speak to anymore, who I only communicate in business like terms over text message, will be making important decisions about their lives. How awkward is that? So sad and awkward. Does it ever get better to the point where you are fine with the situation? I can’t even stand to think about it, although I guess I’m going to have to live it.
So that’s it lol. Right now there are a lot of unknowns, and I’m scared about being on my own again after a decade of being a married guy. Life still [censored], I’m just trying to get to the other side of this situation in one piece.
qt4x11,
I perfectly understand how you feel but look at it that way.
How long did it take you to sell your first app? It probably also took a while to make a decent income from it. Being an entrepreneur is not easy, there are problems all the time and the competition is cutthroat. Having said a few people make it, solve their problems and grow the business.
That's the kind of people that never give up.
Steve Jobs said that "you have to be crazy to keep pushing because it's so hard that only a crazy person would do it".
When it comes to marriage it's the same.
It will be over only if you give up, but if you stick to it and commit yourself to it, I promise you that you will succeed and the relationship with your woman will be stronger than ever before.
Never give up.
Hugs.
Hey Cld - I appreciate the support but I think I'm in a much different place right now. I don't want to argue about it either really because we waste pages and pages about 'should you give up on your marriage or not'. The truth at least for me is that she's given up and it would be/has been unhealthy for me to try to hold on to that hope. If she changes her mind then so be it, but I'm not expecting her to and I'm not trying to change her mind.
All I want from the situation now is a quick and amicable divorce, and a fair financial and child custody settlement.
The divorce is good, don't try to fight it. I just signed the papers and it feels good, now I am not tied financially to her anymore and I am glad about it because she just bought a McMansion that I don't want to be liable for. Now I can only focus on the love relationship while the marriage was also a legal and financial relationship.
I am talking about after the divorce when she finally realizes the mess that she caused to the children and to you.
She will come back on her own at some point, you just have to believe that she will.
What you're going through is normal. That's why they call it the roller coaster. If there's one suggestion I would make is that you continue to get your self esteem stronger to prove to yourself that you do not need to depend on someone else for your own happiness.
I personally would not throw yourself into just business because you're afraid of this happening again. Get rid of the fear. Don't replace the fear with anger though. That's even worse. At the end of the day she is still the mother of your S and D and she will influence them as much as you will. There is going to have to be a level of respect between the two of you so that your kids turn out alright.
It’s been about a week. I’ve been alright, I consider it a good week these days if I don’t get severe panic attacks or become morbidly depressed about some divorce related issue. Wife took the kids out of state to see her family, we had some back and forth before she left about selling the house, and she plans to move out this week or next. I think the kids are supposed to start school at their new school district this week. So I’ve been staying at my moms this past week. I really start missing the kids if I go a week without seeing them, but I’m supposed to get them for the weekend. I have plans to do something special for my little girl on her birthday and my family has already bought her presents.
Mostly I try to keep busy. My ‘life coach’ was really proud of me, that I was doing so many positive things in my life and really doing the work it takes to recover from this breakup. I told him, it’s really just survival. I found that keeping myself as busy as possible was the best way to keep myself from obsessing over the anxiety provoking divorce situation, and rehashing the ‘what ifs’ regarding our relationship. It’s simply unhealthy to focus so much on what is now the past, and replaying such negative thoughts in your head will only make you depressed and erode your self esteem. I have to try to get healthy and take care of myself right now. My wife has basically become a cold, scary stranger to me. We don’t talk except about the kids right now. I try to avoid interacting with her because it brings me down every single time. I don’t expect her to change her mind. I feel like she is really gone.
Hard stuff. So far so good.
I really live my life these days according to my to do list app. I try to check off as many things as possible, and I try to fill my days with activities that will help me grow as a person. The majority of times I work. I try to really focus on my job, and I’ve been devoting a lot of spare time to working on my mobile app business. This past week I finished a new app to the point where it just needs the touch of a graphic designer and some nice icons, the actually functionality is done. I’m pretty proud of myself for that. I also finished another online business class. I told my divorce support group that I’m not going to focus on dating in my post-divorce life, I’m just going to focus on becoming rich. Now that the marriage is over - I feel like I don’t believe in love anymore, and there’s nothing left for me now but to try to become a huge success in business.
Correct, love isn't real.
OK, I'm kind of joking. A little. But it sure doesn't work the way we think it should. It isn't some universal all conquering feeling. In fact, I've learned that love isn't a feeling at all, it's choosing to behave in loving ways when feelings don't tell us to. Unfortunately you are right in that it's rare for people to operate this way these days. While I'm not suggesting you give up on the idea of ever having a relationship again, I do think it's years out before that could even be possible, and it will never work the way we wish it did.
In the end I've found I not only have to grieve for the marriage I lost, but for my idea that I'd ever have a relationship that worked the way I used to believe they could. That is a lot to accept which is why I, too, am not looking for a partner.
In the meantime I'm all about having passions and transforming it into success, just make sure you enjoy what you do along the way. It's not easy, but you have to try to find moments of satisfaction and above all, appreciation. Remember, if you can't be happy with everything you already have in your life without one broken female, then she wouldn't have been enough to make it all better for long anyway. Hard to remember sometimes, but it's true. Appreciation is a habit, make sure to put it on your to do app!
I wrote a song last week too, and my music is coming along pretty well. I’ve been playing a lot the past couple of months, a lot more than when I was married. I’m really going to try for my second album by next summer. Let’s see. I’ve been running longer distances - I think in a week or two I can start lifting weights again. I hung out with my brothers and cousins one night for poker night, and I also met up with a new friend I made through a divorce support group for dinner.
Cool. GAL is good, mainly because you meet your needs elsewhere. So if you were getting validation, appreciation, companionship, etc, from your marriage, at first it tears you apart to be single. When you expand your social interactions you'll find you can meet most of your needs through appropriate channels on your own. This is when your WAW will stop looking like the answer to all of your problems, and she'll instead look like a problem herself.
Don't get me wrong, you'll be devastated at the pointlessness and profoundness of this loss for many years if not all your life and you may never feel the naive trusting love you felt again, but hey, you'll feel much better day to day before long.
Life is just moving on. I don’t feel happy, I’m lucky if I don’t feel sad out of my mind. Everything’s changing so fast, I’m just trying to keep it together without becoming overwhelmed. Most of the time I just feel flat and empty, or I feel restless and neurotic - like I’m crawling out of my skin. Intellectually, I know that there’s a way forward - if I focus on taking care of myself and becoming a better person, being positive - things will definitely improve. How can they not improve? I’m at the low point of my life right now. But - I’m having trouble picturing how things could get better. I’ve lost so much - my wife of 9 years, my kids half the time, my house, a sizable portion of my monthly income, my dog, my identity - a dream we once shared of growing old together. Some of these things can be replaced, but some things cannot be replaced, and some things are forever broken.
You said it.
I don’t know how to deal with these things right now. The thing that gets me most is thinking about the kids. I will miss so much of them growing up because I simply will not be there anymore, and possibly other people will step in to fill the role of father figure at least part of the time. This thing about co parenting - to think for the rest of my kids lives, someone who I can barely speak to anymore, who I only communicate in business like terms over text message, will be making important decisions about their lives. How awkward is that? So sad and awkward. Does it ever get better to the point where you are fine with the situation? I can’t even stand to think about it, although I guess I’m going to have to live it.
You said it again.
The one good thing for me is that I got 50% custody. Regardless of what you've already discussed, agreed on, or thought you would be able to manage or accept, I would highly recommend fighting this fight.
50% time is a lot. No, it's not living with them full time. It doesn't replace the fact that a family was murdered. But it's a lot of time. When my kids are with me they have my undivided attention. When they aren't, I have me time. It's actually pretty nice. And to your main point, it feels like we are a family. I understand in my head they go to their mom's and have other experiences without me, but in my mind we are the real family here. Hard to explain, but when they go to their mom's I feel no differently then sending them to school. Just somewhere they go for a bit in between us being our family. I'd never say it compares with a nuclear family, but as long as you have your children it will be pretty cool. Do you have 50%? Can you get it?
So that’s it lol. Right now there are a lot of unknowns, and I’m scared about being on my own again after a decade of being a married guy. Life still [censored], I’m just trying to get to the other side of this situation in one piece.
Bro, you get it. You really do. Life is all about getting through the next 30-60-90 days, then the next 12-24 months. If you can do that, avoid doing anything super destructive, and even plant some positive seeds now, then just keep faith that one day it won't be so bad. It will never be the same, but you'll learn to manage it.
I compare it to losing your arms in a crash or something. They won't grow back, and I have disdain for people that act like divorce is a growth opportunity that's all for the best. Let's call a spade a spade. I'm glad I have my arms, and I'd prefer not to have lost my family. But there are cool artificial limbs out there that allow you to, oh, I don't know, juggle and violin probably. Point is that we aren't the first people to lose a loved one, and while it hurts to know it was done by choice instead of by the inevitable flow of time, we will keep moving.
I maybe sound negative to some but I think you get me. The fact is that I had a good day, I'm hanging with my kids now after their first day of school, we're going to have some fun tonight, and we just had a great weekend of reading lord of the rings, watching movies, playing chess, hiking, and getting things ready for school. Oh, and my son who is 12 and is a coding prodigy, I got him hooked up with a pal over the weekend that helped him install visual studio, and gave him a tour along with showing him some stuff that I know will help him on his journey. It's pretty cool when they get to be the age where they can appreciate your friends.
Man, you're doing awesome. You don't feel it yet but you couldn't be doing any more, and the bleeding will scab up before you know it. Hang in and keep posting. You can overdo the racing thoughts, but there are a certain amount of hours you have to run through this in your head before you can let it go too, so get it out and keep moving forward. Great job.
OK, I'm kind of joking. A little. But it sure doesn't work the way we think it should. It isn't some universal all conquering feeling. In fact, I've learned that love isn't a feeling at all, it's choosing to behave in loving ways when feelings don't tell us to. Unfortunately you are right in that it's rare for people to operate this way these days. While I'm not suggesting you give up on the idea of ever having a relationship again, I do think it's years out before that could even be possible, and it will never work the way we wish it did.
Maybe there's such a thing as love - but the 'happily ever after' love we're sold on since we are kids, that just does not exist, it is a fairy tale. For sure marriage as an institution is a joke, it is a sham kept alive by the government, by religion, by jewelers and greeting card companies, what have you. It is a society sanctioned way to promote having babies and buying into lifestyle of being an obedient tax payer.
What about the vows we took? The vows were for when we had problems like this, so we would have to work out our problems and stay together. But when the going gets tough she is just out the door without even going to counseling, and I'm slapped with divorce papers and her lawyers are coming for half my money. I guess everything was just a joke to her. And it is so easy for her to make all these profound life changing decisions not just for herself, but for me, and for our two kids. Cld can wait patiently for his ex wife to change her mind, but I don't know if I can forgive her for this.
In the end I've found I not only have to grieve for the marriage I lost, but for my idea that I'd ever have a relationship that worked the way I used to believe they could. That is a lot to accept which is why I, too, am not looking for a partner.
I think this experience will make me a better boyfriend in the future because I know now how love can die if you don't take care of it. At the same time this experience can make me cynical about relationships in the future. But yeah I'm not ready for any of that right now, it's frankly pretty scary to me and I have to worry about getting myself together and taking care of my kids anyway.
In the end I've found I not only have to grieve for the marriage I lost, but for my idea that I'd ever have a relationship that worked the way I used to believe they could. That is a lot to accept which is why I, too, am not looking for a partner.
you'll be devastated at the pointlessness and profoundness of this loss for many years if not all your life and you may never feel the naive trusting love you felt again
That's why I feel like I'm a broken man now, I'm damaged goods.
Oh, and my son who is 12 and is a coding prodigy, I got him hooked up with a pal over the weekend that helped him install visual studio, and gave him a tour along with showing him some stuff that I know will help him on his journey.
Certainly Eclipse and XCode have a lot of problems, but Visual Studio really takes the cake. What is the deal with those floating windows for everything? If he's coding in anything other than the C# .NET Microsoft type languages, he should just use Atom or something. But yeah 12 years old and already getting serious about this stuff - it's pretty inspiring and he definitely is off to a great start.
I compare it to losing your arms in a crash or something. They won't grow back, and I have disdain for people that act like divorce is a growth opportunity that's all for the best. Let's call a spade a spade.
I can already see how I'll probably become a wiser and more compassionate and open person from this situation. And I have the time now to fulfill some life goals. That's some consolation.
I'd still trade all the 'personal growth' in the world to be able to go back in time and fix my relationship before it exploded.
Man, you're doing awesome. You don't feel it yet but you couldn't be doing any more
I don't feel awesome, I'm still pretty much struggling, but thanks. I'm just trying to take care of myself, for my kids more than anything.
qt4x11,
It's very hard to accept divorce for most men because we get screwed usually and I can see why men try to avoid divorce while women are the ones who file 80% of the time.
The biggest loss is the kids, women get custody in 90% of the cases. In my case my wife got custody but I see the kids every weekend which means I have them 30% of the time, which is not too bad.
The financial loss is huge as well. Men pay for child support and alimony in 90% of the cases as well and if they can't pay they go to jail. I was aware of all of that before I married and that's why I ended up marrying a woman who made 6 times more money than me. Marrying a poor woman is pure suicide!
My child support is only $135 a month as a result and I received most assets as a "lump sump" alimony. I belong to the 3% of divorced men who received alimony, so my situation is pretty good.
The system is to blame for screwing men so badly, and until men don't wake up to the reality and unite, nothing is going to change.
Several things could be done to reduce the number of divorces like
1. Keep the government out of marriage completely or
2. Make it impossible to get divorced if there are children or
3. Give custody to men by default like they used to do during ancient Rome.
Right now the system is very bad and men are the victims.
Hugs
That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard on this board.
Especially...
2. Make it impossible to get divorced if there are children or
3. Give custody to men by default like they used to do during ancient Rome.
I can tell you that the majority of men wouldn't know how to handle their kids. No wonder the Romans stopped
I'd love to know where these crazy stats come from? They cannot be widely supported. 80% D filed by women? 90% pay support or alimony? 90% of women get custody? Well sure and so do 90% of men. Neither get primary or full custody however. More and more it's joint if the man asks for it. Rarely do any stars about anything scene thus wide. We've been round and round with this guy and he simply doesn't want to get it. I'm betting there is a 90% chance his WAW said the same thing.
.
They were raised by single mothers and were thought to bend over backwards for women since they were kids.
They were thought that men are evil and women are saints.
They hurt other men deeply and they are the real problem of our society.
Wrong again. I had two great parents. Father served in the military and I have a very good idea of what being a man is. I mean my wife never put a restraining order on me. just saying.
You know you can keep up the name-calling all you want. It's up to you. I think we're all beginning to see the problem that's keeping your W away.
I almost always agree with you, but I have to object to the idea that the majority of men don't know how to handle their kids. If they don't know, they can learn.
(Now, I fully agree that what Cld is proposing is nonsense. I just think you aren't giving ,en enough credit as parents.)
cld, I've kept my mouth shut, because I am not in a place right not to talk to a wall.
But the way you speak to these people who are trying to help you, which is disgustingly disrespectful, did you speak to your wife like that? Did you speak to your children that way? When she had an opinion that differed from yours, did you insult her and tear her down? Did you speak to friends, colleagues, people you associated with in person this way? Or do you only reserve it for the people on these boards?
Because if you can answer "yes" to any of those questions, it is not a MLC or a troubled childhood that is keeping your W away.
They were raised by single mothers and were thought to bend over backwards for women since they were kids.
They were thought that men are evil and women are saints.
They hurt other men deeply and they are the real problem of our society.
Real men don't use women's body parts as insults.
When you said on your thread that your wife was the only one who would have to change in a reconciliation? Your comments on this thread show a different truth.
Rose,
Believe it or not, but women like masculine men and that's exactly the way I am acting. My wife will come back because of that.
She might not like it sometimes but at the end of the day she would much rather have a man like me than a mangina.
You will see.
Masculinity is not degrading and insulting others.
A real man is open-minded, respectful, strong, and treats others with compassion and kindness. That's what masculinity is.
That's what women are attracted to.
Your definition of masculinity has women to running in the other direction and get restraining orders.
You will see.
So ...
Wife and kids moving out today, kids first day at new school district. Trying to work right now, having a hard time focusing.
I'm totally gutted, the s***s real now. It all just seems so surreal, I still don't understand why we couldn't fix this.
The D might as well already be finalized. Haven't felt this bad in weeks.
QT, I know it feels as if you lost so much and the changes in your life could be so overwhelming and you don't know how to redefine your identity.
You are still you. You are still a dad, you still have a career. Money will change, housing will change, but it is all adaptable. And I am sure you will adapt and will enjoy life again. Living one day at a time, going step by step and not living too far into the future really helped me.
Life is good for me, I, as a single mom, is trying to buy my own place in stead of renting, finally, I have a good full time job, I am furthering my degree, and raising my daughter. I've got a great circle of friends. I've reconnected with some lost ones and picked up new ones along the way. I've done this alone, and in no major or long term relationships along the way.
It'll come together. You just got to give it time.
Thanks. You guys have been there - I'm just at the point where words like 'just give it time' are almost meaningless.
So ...
Wife and kids moving out today, kids first day at new school district. Trying to work right now, having a hard time focusing.
I'm totally gutted, the s***s real now. It all just seems so surreal, I still don't understand why we couldn't fix this.
One day at a time Q....
One step at a time....
This is a process, and it takes time...
Nothing will be resolved today, and nothing will end today....
It's just a step in the process..
Find something for YOU today, however big, or however small that makes you smile...
I feel for ya buddy...
Chin up...
I mean, it's a process to get to ... what. A point where I'm not going out of my mind with sadness. Ok. God the pain is so great.
I guess this is point where I allow myself to feel the grief. Today is literally the day where two kids lives are changed forever.
Rose,
Believe it or not, but women like masculine men and that's exactly the way I am acting. My wife will come back because of that.
She might not like it sometimes but at the end of the day she would much rather have a man like me than a mangina.
You will see.
I am a woman. I have lots of female friends and relatives. None of us are attracted to the attitude you are displaying in this thread.
I mean, it's a process to get to ... what. A point where I'm not going out of my mind with sadness. Ok. God the pain is so great.
I guess this is point where I allow myself to feel the grief. Today is literally the day where two kids lives are changed forever.
QT, words seem so inadequate in the face of your pain.
Feel the grief today, but trust those who have been down this road before and who tell you that there is goodness waiting for you. Something much more than the absence of pain.
You are still your kids' father, and they need you! Your attitude can greatly affect how well they come through this.
You've got this.
I mean, it's a process to get to ... what. A point where I'm not going out of my mind with sadness. Ok. God the pain is so great.
I guess this is point where I allow myself to feel the grief. Today is literally the day where two kids lives are changed forever.
Possibly, but you don't know what the future holds Q. You really don't...
Yes, things are going to change, but YOU have a say in HOW they change when it comes to those two children...
Kids are resilient ONLY when they are taught to be resilient...
HOW you go through this, will shape their lives forever...
So your choice right now, over the only thing that you can control today....
You choose to guide them, and show them the way through...
Or, you choose to handle it poorly....
Feel all of today, let it burn deep into you, and process it.
Then let it the F go....
Use it for fuel when your tank gets empty...
Find something, anything, for you today....
So your choice right now, over the only thing that you can control today....
You choose to guide them, and show them the way through...
Sorry this is a rant, and it is part of me 'allowing myself to feel the grief' I guess.
What gets me is the one doing the leaving gets to unilaterally make life changing decisions not just for themselves but for everyone including the kids. I will always feel resentment to her for doing this to my kids. She did not even fight to keep our family in tact. and for what - as far as I can tell, she's doing this so she can rent out an apartment in a worse part of town, take on a part time job selling womens clothing on comission, and so she can go out and try to recapture the single life with her girl friends.
I should have took her seriously when she tried to tell me she was unhappy - but when I'm standing there saying 'let's work on this' - she should at least try, if not us then for the kids.
What about the f*** vows. They were for forever. They were for when things get rough, so we'd have to work things out instead of blowing up the family when someone 'feels dissatisfied' or 'wants to find themselves' whatever that means. I guess when we stood up and took those vows it was just a f*** joke to her.
So ...
Wife and kids moving out today, kids first day at new school district. Trying to work right now, having a hard time focusing.
I'm totally gutted, the s***s real now. It all just seems so surreal, I still don't understand why we couldn't fix this.
qt4x11,
I dreaded the day my WW moved out. I couldn't imagine being at home without my family. As it turned out, with my WW away, it helped me gain a new perspective on my situation. I stayed busy and got a lot of stuff done that I'd been putting-off for a long time. That made me feel a lot better.
I know move-out day is a terribly emotional day, but you may find a silver lining amongst all of the turmoil.
What gets me is the one doing the leaving gets to unilaterally make life changing decisions not just for themselves but for everyone including the kids. I will always feel resentment to her for doing this to my kids. She did not even fight to keep our family in tact. and for what - as far as I can tell, she's doing this so she can rent out an apartment in a worse part of town, take on a part time job selling womens clothing on comission, and so she can go out and try to recapture the single life with her girl friends.
I should have took her seriously when she tried to tell me she was unhappy - but when I'm standing there saying 'let's work on this' - she should at least try, if not us then for the kids.
What about the f*** vows. They were for forever. They were for when things get rough, so we'd have to work things out instead of blowing up the family when someone 'feels dissatisfied' or 'wants to find themselves' whatever that means. I guess when we stood up and took those vows it was just a f*** joke to her.
qt4x11,
That's the current culture right now in America.
In TV single moms are praised as being strong for raising their kids and leaving their abusive husbands. In movies family fathers are always portrayed as stupid and unnecessary, see "Everybody loves Raymond".
When single mom girls post pictures of themselves with their kids they get hundreds of likes on Facebook but if a girl openly praises her bf/husband she is made fun of, gets zero likes and gets shamed by family and friends.
The feminist movement is to blame for all of that and the men enablers who are manginas are also contributing to all of this.
If you would like to learn more subscribe to a YouTube Channel called MGTOW "Men Go Their Own Ways".
Hugs,
be strong my friend.
Now may not be the time to say this, QT, but she was telling you she was unhappy, you didn't take it seriously, she decides to be done trying to get you to take her seriously, then you say "let's work on this" and she is supposed to just say "sure", because you are ready?
It's just not the way it works. And maybe one day she will be ready to. You weren't ready when she was and she is not ready now that you are.
I hear ya, it does s*ck that the decision by the one person changes everyones lives, I agree.
It's easy to say how each spouse should have acted in the marriage. This is your reality right now. You can grieve, be mad, do what you need to do. And when you are ready, own your stuff, and she could own hers. Just keep going on your path.
I should have took her seriously when she tried to tell me she was unhappy - but when I'm standing there saying 'let's work on this' - she should at least try, if not us then for the kids.
I know that you are venting...
However....if they would have known the Iceberg was there...the Titanic wouldn't have sank...
You can't woulda, shoulda, coulda right now...
It does you a huge dis-service...
From this day forward...
What about the f*** vows. They were for forever. They were for when things get rough, so we'd have to work things out instead of blowing up the family when someone 'feels dissatisfied' or 'wants to find themselves' whatever that means. I guess when we stood up and took those vows it was just a f*** joke to her.
I doubt that they were a joke to her...
She gave then, what she was capable of giving...
Same as now...
She is giving what she is capable of giving...
You will find compassion and empathy...
Work toward that.
Find some beauty in the day....
Now may not be the time to say this, QT, but she was telling you she was unhappy, you didn't take it seriously, she decides to be done trying to get you to take her seriously, then you say "let's work on this" and she is supposed to just say "sure", because you are ready?
YES. Because of the f*** VOWS. Because this was forever, it wasn't for 'until I get fed up and decide it would be easier to just take your money and go'. That's what the vows mean. I made a lot of mistakes in the marriage, but it would have never crossed my mind to blow everything up like this without at least going to counseling.
Yeah sorry, just venting.
First off, I feel for you qt. I lot of us have been right where you are and all know how bad it stinks.
What gets me is the one doing the leaving gets to unilaterally make life changing decisions not just for themselves but for everyone including the kids.
But this ^^^^^
Absolutely not true. Your children are just as much yours as they are hers.
Listen to Mach. Take some time for yourself today and as long as you need.
Then, when your emotions are a bit more under control, start figuring how you want to address the legal issues.
Lots of us have 50/50 custody, which in a lot of cases works out to even more as time goes on.
Chin up. Hang in there. Strength and honor.
Absolutely not true. Your children are just as much yours as they are hers.
It is true. What is going on today, the moving, that's not my choice - at the very least I'd want to try to work it out in counseling.
And this is why men commit suicide.....
Good job feminists and manginas.......good job......
Absolutely not true. Your children are just as much yours as they are hers.
It is true. What is going on today, the moving, that's not my choice - at the very least I'd want to try to work it out in counseling.
But you can't change it....
Try to focus on the difference that you can make...
Not the things that you can't change...
Q...
It is hard.
You have to feel it though.
Listen to the others, it does get better.
I too said much of what you are saying about the vows and whatnot.
The problem with the anger, if you hold onto it, you become bitter.
And bitter is not good for anyone in this situation.
It takes time. You will get there.
Your kids are watching. They need to see an example of how to survive and thrive through adversity. That is how they will learn to overcome the adversities that they will face as they grow.
If it wasn't this...it would be something.
It does get better.
I understand the vows thing, and I am very pro marriage. I believe in doing everything before divorce is the next step. I've learned so much about marriage through being divorced for so many years at a time people are really just started being married around me. But none of that is the point right now.
The point is, change what you can, like mach said.
You can sit there and say and talk about how unfair it is. (and I am not preaching, I got stuck there way longer than I should have been).
If you want 50/50 custody, you can try to change that. take your time to mourn, mull over the unfairness, but just don't stay stuck there too long. It hurts no body but you, and after a while, there will be no to blame but you for that one.
Trust me, been there, done that.
Ginger,
Just wanted to say I'm proud of you. And it was a noticed difference this summer.