I'm new here. Just looking for support, advice, and some kind words. We've been married 16 years as of tomorrow. Husband told me last night he has signed a lease and is moving out. We haven't told the kids yet... Two boys, ages 7 and 9.
Right now, we have to decide if we can take our family vacation as planned the last week of August. The kids are SO excited and in some ways I really want to give this to them, and I think I can handle it. We'd tell them about the separation after the fact.
Husband is very depressed... Started last fall when he started telling me he didn't feel connected to me anymore. He couldn't, wouldn't give me any more details than that. We started marriage counseling, but after about 7 visits, ended it... It wasn't going anywhere and he wasn't willing or able to do the work. Said he sees the world in black and white and feels numb.
He won't go back to counseling, so I agree this is the next step... Separation. I'm just sad, scared, and confused. I don't even recognize him anymore. He is a shell of the man I married. He refuses to deal with the depression... Believe me, everyone around him has begged him but it is a non-starter.
I'm not sure how or when to tell kids, or what to tell them. I know my youngest son will have a very hard time with splitting time between two places. He's always been a mommas boy and refuses to let anyone else put him to sleep. It is going to be hell.
Anyway, that is a short version of my story.
Thanks for reading.
Mombear, I'm sorry you're here but you've found a great group of people to help you through this!
I'll leave most of the advice to others who are more experienced than me, but I'll say the vacation decision is hard. I just went through it myself and it can be rough. A lot of emotions attached to pretending to be family when you are hurting inside.
But the key here is to keep your head up and stay strong. You need to be strong for your kids. With that, know that we are here to help and support you! I leave you to more knowledgeable folks!
Mombear,
Just went through similar thing too. Read my thread. Depression + Husband signing lease.I have no answers, of course, but I am here and dealing with that. All the best to you,
Altair.
How long were you separated when you did your vacation? On the one hand I really want to give this to my kids, but in the other hand I know it is going to be hard. In an ideal world, we will coparent very effectively and maturely. But it is early days now, I imagine most people think that going in to it.
You say it started just last fall but ... is it possible he's had a life-long history of depression? Has he been diagnosed by a health professional? Has ever been treated w/ therapy and/or medication?
Thanks for the response. It is hard. I do think just reading this forum and writing will be therapeutic and also help keep me from wanting to contact him. I'm going to start doing the 180, but it will be hard to really be effective before he moves out.
Why won't they acknowledge depression??? I'm so hurt by this. Like his fear of medicine is more important than the devastation we are about to bring on our children. I'm trying to deal with that anger. It is hard.
Another in a similar position here. Depression often seems like a common trigger. My wh has admitted to me that he has depressive thoughts and thoughts of self harm, but refuses to see a IC. Then he will deny it.. Then admit it.. Then deny it. I think you sense the pattern.
A few months back, while me and H were having a dark patch (no d had been mentioned at this point, and still in the same bed); we took a vacay. Although there is the pain of pretending to be a happy family. Just focus on the kids, that's what I did. I would tell h our plans for the day and gave him the option to join. And the majority m of the time he would join us, and even began to warm to me. I was upbeat, relaxed and genuinely enjoying time with my child.
Focus on you and the children. That's truly where it starts
He has a family history of depression. But the past year was a really big year for us, so I think it threw him for a spin. We moved into a new house, he got a huge promotion at work, but it is his last promotion. He works for the government, and he has always been very highly motivated and goal oriented, to the point that realizing he has topped out at age 38 is depressing for him.
In any case... He will not try meds and I can not make him. He functions well enough to keep his job and parent, so I can't force the issue. I wish I could, but I cannot.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I'm sorry you're here. It must be tragic to have to tell your little boys this. The stubbornness is obnoxious, this is a common theme among all of them regardless of why they want to leave.
I will say one thing. As hard as it will be emotionally, the growth you will experience once he moves out will be much greater than anything you could hope to do if he were still there. Also, it will show him how hard it would be to live without you.
I've gotta say, your name brought me to tears. When my little boy was born almost 4 yrs ago, I started calling my W Momma bear, and shortly thereafter she called me Daddy bear. She was a great Mom, Super Mom in fact, such an inspiration to me and helped me become the Dad I am. Then this crap started in early 2016, and she lost such interest in our son let alone me. At times I see the old Mom come out, and my heart fills with happiness for my boy. Then others, she doesn't seem to care one bit about my keeping him upwards of 6 days a week. I'm just not having a good afternoon/evening I guess.
Sorry if I hijacked your story. I truly am sorry. This place is both heaven and hell. The people here, especially the vets, will give you great advice and help you navigate things the best way possible. I'll try to throw my 2 cents your way when I can.
Be there for your kids. Show them strength and love. They need you more than ever now. My boy has always been a Mommas boy. He's slowly but surely become Daddy's little man. Your kids need you, and more than ever you need your kids. Nothing feels better than hearing, out of the blue, "Daddy I love you."
We were 2 months into in house separation when we took our family trip to the beach last week. My situation is different from yours though in many ways so it's probably not comparable. Regardless stay strong and if you decide to go, the advice abov around focusing on the kids is definitely the way to go!
I am so sorry. My H also suffers from depression and refuses anti-depressants. I understand his reasons, but sometimes I get angry that he risks leaving us rather than take meds.
My WH is also depressed and angry. He's on meds but deflects and avoids counseling so far. He still talks about going. Time will tell. My point here is, the problems still exist and their journey is still their journey even with meds. Finding the right meds takes time too. I can only imagine how had it could be for our WH's to admit defeat and take the chemical or personal help. I know how difficult it was for me to accept meds to help me.
You believe your H is depressed ... what symptoms have you observed? Has he told you he is depressed?
If he is clinically depressed, there is probably little you can do until/unless he seeks help for his condition, I'm sorry to say.
For his depression symptoms.....
Sleeping less than 3-4 hours per night
Frequent crying
Says he is numb
Says he sees the world in black and white, not color
Uses words like "hopeless" and "despair" to describe his emotions
Very short tempered with the kids ... Lots of yelling.
Erectile dysfunction.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Any advice for how to get through the work day without bursting in to tears? I also suffer from panic attacks. I do have some meds I can take, but I don't want to be popping pills every single day, I try to hold out for a true emergency.
Mombear,
I'd recommend going on the planned vacation. I was in a similar situation and we went on a cruise. It didn't change things, but our sons had a ton of fun and that was a very good thing. I'd do the same thing over again.
I should add, I was at my best behavior. I validated my wife and avoided conflict. It made for a pleasant cruise and I felt rested afterward.
Thanks. Yeah, I don't have any illusions about it changing things between us, so I think I'll be able to focus nicely on the children. I'm still just in shock from the suddenness of all of this. I truly believed in soulmates and I never, ever questioned our love for each other. We don't fight, never really have. This is a complete shock. I'm having a hard time finding the ground beneath my feet.
Thanks. Yeah, I don't have any illusions about it changing things between us, so I think I'll be able to focus nicely on the children. I'm still just in shock from the suddenness of all of this. I truly believed in soulmates and I never, ever questioned our love for each other. We don't fight, never really have. This is a complete shock. I'm having a hard time finding the ground beneath my feet.
I bet it's a shock! At least I had some forewarning; I can't imagine what you're going through. But, don't beat yourself up over it.
Has your husband seen a doctor to get treatment for his depression?
No, he refuses treatment for depression. Says he isn't depressed, says that if he were depressed he wouldn't be able to go to work every day, etc. He has been seeing a counselor and did a depression screening form, but he lied on the form. There is a 0% chance he will explore treatment for this depression.
Mombear,
I am sorry that you find yourself here, but this is the best worst place you can be in this situation. You will find lots of support especially if you keep posting regularly.
I am going to ask you to elaborate on your story.
Husband is very depressed... Started last fall when he started telling me he didn't feel connected to me anymore. He couldn't, wouldn't give me any more details than that. We started marriage counseling, but after about 7 visits, ended it... It wasn't going anywhere and he wasn't willing or able to do the work. Said he sees the world in black and white and feels numb.
You wrote this in your first post. Is there anything else you noticed about his behavior changing prior to this or since?
Other than not feeling a connection to you, does he have any complaints about the marriage?
The more information you provide, the better people can support you here.
The best thing to do at this point is to take care of yourself and your boys. You are at the very beginning of what could be a long journey.
Allow yourself time alone to cry and process your feelings, sleep, take baths, anything that will allow you to relax a bit.
Go on the vacation and enjoy it. Enjoy your boys. Just have fun. That is really what vacations are about anyway right? A break from real life?
I don't post often anymore, but I will try to check in on how you are doing.
Cat
Thanks, cat04.
So we went through a lot last year. We moved to a new house, and of course moving is extremely stressful. It is our "forever house" until we retire and move out of this area. I should note that my husband is very goal-oriented - he always likes to have an objective he's working on or striving towards. Saving up for this house had been a big one.
He also got a promotion at work, and it is the last promotion he'll ever get (works for the government and this is the senior most position he can have). He's only 38. This was exciting for a few months, but as he adjusted to the new workload, he started sleeping less (like maybe 4-5 hours a night at most), doing work more often at home, getting short tempered with the kids.
Around this time, I had some medical issues with my thyroid pop up. This made me very tired, and I tended to take naps on the weekends until my medication got sorted out. At the time, I didn't think too much of this, but in his own words, he said "I thought you were leaving me." He does have abandonment issues that go way back to his childhood.
We started marriage counseling, but the counseling was unproductive. It started out with a focus on one of his coworkers who I thought he was having an EA with. It turns out he wasn't, but he was definitely without a doubt heading in that direction - talking to her about our marriage, etc.
I was devastated and cried my eyes out about the EA, believing there was more to it than what he revealed, but it turns out that there isn't/wasn't. Then he turned very angry and started blaming everything in his life on me - that I don't make him a better person, that I am not competitive enough for him, that I'm not enough of a go-getter, etc. I did not even RECOGNIZE this man . . .we've been married 15 years at that point and he had never insulted me ever in our lives.
The church that we had been attending also cancelled our worship service and most of our social support system scattered to the winds with that. We tried to find another church home, but nothing has really worked since then.
By the time I realized that the abandonment issues from his childhood were such a big piece of the puzzle, he was already out of the bedroom, searching for apartments, setting up bank accounts. We haven't been to counseling together since late June.
He signed a lease and will be leaving sometime in September.
Hope some of these details help!
We started marriage counseling, but the counseling was unproductive. It started out with a focus on one of his coworkers who I thought he was having an EA with. It turns out he wasn't, but he was definitely without a doubt heading in that direction - talking to her about our marriage, etc.
I was devastated and cried my eyes out about the EA, believing there was more to it than what he revealed, but it turns out that there isn't/wasn't. Then he turned very angry and started blaming everything in his life on me - that I don't make him a better person, that I am not competitive enough for him, that I'm not enough of a go-getter, etc. I did not even RECOGNIZE this man . . .we've been married 15 years at that point and he had never insulted me ever in our lives.
Mombear,
How do you know that he wasn't having an EA?
So there was something going on. He started talking about this particular coworker a lot, which was unusual for him. I asked him several times, and he always just said that they work well together.
After our first marriage counseling session, he had left his e-mail open and I looked through it. I saw some e-mail exchanges between them, and I saw where we had sent her lists of the marriage counselors we were considering. The messages weren't inappropriate (other than that they were talking about our marriage with another married woman!) and said things like "These are the places we are considering, you should check some of them out, too."
None of the messages were flirty or sexual. But still. In my mind, it was a line crossed.
Any advice for how to get through the work day without bursting in to tears? I also suffer from panic attacks. I do have some meds I can take, but I don't want to be popping pills every single day, I try to hold out for a true emergency.
My advice:
Allow yourself to suffer.
Forgive yourself for suffering.
It's OK to be dysfunctional at work or at home during this time -- it's normal. (Heck, if you weren't torn apart by this, *then* I'd be worried!)
I also chose to tell my supervisor what's going on w/ me, in general terms, so they understood my drop in productivity. They were highly supportive.
It's OK to take meds if properly prescribed and carefully considered.
Cry.
Cry.
Cry.
I spent a lot of time just feeling bad. Still do. I accept that.
None of the messages were flirty or sexual. But still. In my mind, it was a line crossed.
Mombear,
I can understand your feelings of betrayal. He's discussing something private and personal with another woman and, I would assume, you felt like he should be discussing that with you and not sharing with another woman. I think that's a very normal reaction on your part.
Are you the one that decided it was not an EA or did your MC have some input as well?
It was mostly our MC, and I also came to accept that. She did say it was on that slippery slope, but agreed it hadn't seemed to have progressed that far.
For his depression symptoms.....
Sleeping less than 3-4 hours per night
Frequent crying
Says he is numb
Says he sees the world in black and white, not color
Uses words like "hopeless" and "despair" to describe his emotions
Very short tempered with the kids ... Lots of yelling.
Erectile dysfunction.
Pretty serious symptoms. Just that first one by itself -- or the last tone -- can really mess up a person.
My recommendation -- worth the electrons it's written on -- is to encourage him to become healthy. He can't see your marriage for what it's worth while he's in this horrible condition.
It is so insane. I cry all day without him, and when I see him I calm down and we are fine. We smile, joke, laugh, etc. then he wants to talk about custody arrangements.
What do I do??? Am I supposed to just go along with it?
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Hi MB,
I am sorry you are here. You will get some great support and advice from these awesome people here. All of us have been through it or are going through it in one way or another. I am a few years down the line and my H has been back for 16 months, so I came here not because I am an expert, but because I struggled to follow the DB principles and I can now see how that worked against me.
Just to share with you, my H had depression too as our family life became very chaotic for years. He was having an EA with a mutual friend who was heavily pursuing him. I was shocked, we split, and I fell hard. They had a full blown R for almost a year and I was a mess. Well wouldn't you know she didn't actually "make" him happy (no one does right?) and he was more miserable than he had ever been. So he did a sharp 180, worked on himself, and here we are a couple years later. It's still hard and I am still working on forgiveness. He always was and is a great father and I think that shines through in his favor, as I have thought about giving up at times.
So I am telling you all of this now because I want you to know I understand your pain, devastation, and anxiety about the future. Allow yourself to feel sad, angry, and go through every emotion you have. Gather a solid support system and go to them and let them be there for you. Do not turn to H, let him know your feelings, or expect anything from him--he cannot and will not be there for you and it will only hurt you more.
Here is the hardest part. Let him go. Even if you know he is making a mistake, know he needs help for depression, and believe in your heart he will come back, you still must let him go. He has chosen this path and all we LBS can do is honor it. Far too many here hang on tight and only DB to win back their S. It doesn't work! In fact IMO the only real shot we have at saving our Ms is to release them and start living for ourselves again. Let them go and let them discover they are in fact the one losing YOU.
Follow Sandi's rules--read them every day--they are each there for valuable reasons. No vacation. No R talk. Go dark on him and do not initiate any talk/text unless it is important about the kids. Starting today, take all focus off of him and focus on you and your kids only. H does not get to see your emotions or know your position anymore. It's ok for him to think you are moving on. He will temp check and you don't have to go there--you can listen, validate, tell him he has given you a lot to think about, end convo.
He may press you for answers and he may become mean. It's very disheartening and confusing to see your H this way, but remember this is his journey and he is in a fog. It is not as much about you and the M as you think. This is a very long process and nothing has to be decided or done today. He can go, sign a 5 year lease, pursue another A, file for D, and trust me, things can change on a dime. So right now you take care of number one and that is YOU. He can go on and see that life will not just be better, and he can blame you for his unhappiness, but he will soon find life may be harder without you and he will see the affects on the kids.
I am all about the tough love. I just tell people what I needed to hear but didn't. Keep posting. This is the hardest obstacle in life, but you WILL get through it. Life is long. Let him go and learn from his mistakes. Wake up each day and take good care of yourself. As you grow stronger and more confident he may notice over time. If he doesn't, well you really don't want him now do you? You deserve a man that respects you and sticks by you, even through the hard times.
-Blu
Thanks for that beautiful post. I am worried that some of the DB strategies could backfire, especially since my husband has abandonment issues.
Last night, he woke me in the middle of the night and asked me to come down to his room and snuggle with him. I did. Don't know that it means anything, but it felt good.
Sounds like he asked his MOM to snuggle with him and you obeyed.
I think you should be his wife not his MOM
What do you mean by that, Cadet? Should I have said no? He knows where I stand, and that I love him and that I am not done with our marriage. So when he shows vulnerability, I feel wrong turning him down.
It's hard, but what he means is don't be at their beckon call while they are doing something wrong and destructive.
This is why it feels counterintuitive and you must trust the process. He does not get to threaten separation come/go as he pleases and then you are there for hugs and support. No! This is codependent and unhealthy. When a person hurts or rejects us--depression or whatever the reason might be--the natural consequence is to draw a circle around yourself and protect yourself. He does not get hugs and support, you are not his mom.
Boundaries are important here. It is time to take care of you and tell him no. If he is giving up on the M then he has made his choice. Let him go.
I would worry about that too whe H was floundering--I wanted H to know I would give him another chance and was afraid I would push him further away. That's not how it actually works! H needs to see you comfident, strong boundaries, and moving forward in life without him. He needs to see what he is losing.
Trust me, if he wants you back and is ready to work on himself, he will do it! You are not preventing him from that! Unfortunately this can take a long time and he needs to look inside himself. So start focusing on you and telling him no!
I know, I know. I just want so badly for this to work. I'm giving him space today and we haven't talked about last night. Things are friendly, we are taking the kids to the pool and will picnic there.
You were all right. Today he got mad and told me he'd rather kill himself than spend another 10 years with me. He later apologized, but yeah. He's not up for reconciling.
I am so sorry.
With depression, I think it helps to realize that it's often the depression talking. That's not a helpful thing to point out to him, obviously 😉, but it helps me to keep it in mind.
When H and I discuss past depressive episodes, it's amazing how differently we remember them.
Hang in there.
(((Mombear)))
I'm sorry! That is awful. He is lost right now and you cannot believe anything that he says. He doesn't even know what he means, thinks, feels anymore. As much as you care for him and may know what help he needs, he has to help himself. We cannot save anyone but ourselves and our young children.
What I love about DB philosophy is it is as much about breaking codependency as it is about saving the M. Most of us got here because over the course of the M we developed unhealthy attachments. We cannot have a good R with someone until both people become heathy and strong again independently.
So help yourself now during this hard time. Let him see how much you value your own health and happiness. Rally it all--lean on your support people, keep posting here, find a good therapist for you, and take a giant step back from him. He has got to learn to take care of himself before you want to be in a M with him anyhow.
-Blu
Thanks, Bluwave. It helps to remember how lost he is. I think I'm slowly realizing how far gone he really is. I'm still furious that he is willing to put our kids through this. No little kids should have to see this. And I have no idea how to walk the line of not giving the kids too much adult information while also making it clear that this is not a moral or Christian thing their father is doing. It just [censored]. [censored] [censored] [censored].
Mombear, could you please put a summary of your situation in your signature? Click on "My Stuff" -> "Edit Profile."
There are so many people suffering here w/ similar situations... the summaries in signatures help us remember who you are.
Thanks.
Mombear,
First I want to say how sorry I am that your H said that to you. I remember how hearing almost the very same words hurt. It hurts. In time, it won't hurt so much. As you come to realize what is really going on inside of him, it won't hurt so much.
I am willing to bet he said it to push you away. He let you get close. He asked you to snuggle. Then he realized what he had done and needed to push you away. It isn't personal. It is something within him. Something that he absolutely doesn't understand.
I'm still furious that he is willing to put our kids through this. No little kids should have to see this. And I have no idea how to walk the line of not giving the kids too much adult information while also making it clear that this is not a moral or Christian thing their father is doing. It just [censored]. [censored] [censored] [censored].
Please, please, please work really hard to change this line of thinking.
Do not say anything to the kids about how "bad" what their father is doing is.
In time, they will make their own decisions about his actions and if you simply keep setting the example of behavior that you want them to learn, they will come to their own conclusions.
It isn't up to you to do anything to help or hurt their relationship with their father. (With the exception of real abuse.) It is up to you to stay out of the way of that, let them forge their own way with him. Put your focus on making your relationship with them what you want it to be.
I have a few threads I would like to share with you. I will take some time this morning to try to find them and link them here. I hope you will take the time to read them with a bit of an open mind.
I also want to share one other thought. I know you are being told to take a "hard line" and I also understand that you feel some of the DB principals will not work in your situation...
First, do what you are comfortable with. If you can snuggle or go on vacation and you believe you can do it with no expectations...and you want to do those things, do them. You are at the beginning and while you may eventually get to a place where you take a different stance, you aren't there emotionally right now and there is nothing wrong with that.
Additionally, DB is counterintuitive. It is going to feel wrong. There are going to be things that just don't seem logical. In time, you will see the logic. For now, again, do only what you are comfortable with.
What do you mean by that, Cadet?
Ill give my impression. Sounds like he was an 8 year asking mom to come sleep in his bed after having a bad dream.
Can you explain why you said 'yes'? What was your goal?
He knows where I stand, and that I love him and that I am not done with our marriage. So when he shows vulnerability, I feel wrong turning him down.
I think maybe this is where you should investigate into yourself?
WHY does it feel wrong to you? Sounds like you were hoping/expecting that this would be a step forward to healing your R. I think you should stop being SO clear about what you want when it comes to him.
What do you mean by that, Cadet?
Ill give my impression. Sounds like he was an 8 year asking mom to come sleep in his bed after having a bad dream.
Can you explain why you said 'yes'? What was your goal?
He knows where I stand, and that I love him and that I am not done with our marriage. So when he shows vulnerability, I feel wrong turning him down.
I think maybe this is where you should investigate into yourself?
WHY does it feel wrong to you? Sounds like you were hoping/expecting that this would be a step forward to healing your R. I think you should stop being SO clear about what you want when it comes to him.
Agreed
The reason I said "yes" to him was because he suffers from pretty severe fear of abandonment. Before we ended counseling, we learned that one of the major reasons behind his building an emotional wall was out of fear that I was going to leave him. This wasn't a rational fear, but to him it was very real. I was preoccupied and going through some health issues and he took my change in behavior as a sign that I was done with him. I also hadn't been very available to him sexually for awhile - not like we never had sex, but certainly not as much as he'd like.
I said yes because I didn't want to shoot him down and reinforce the narrative in his head that I was "done with him."
My goal in saying yes was to counter that narrative and reinforce that I'm here, I'm not abandoning him.
Of course I was feeling like this would be a step towards reconciling. How on earth can I tell the difference between him being a flake and him being serious?
Something else happened this morning that has made me realize that I need to be the adult here and lay down some boundaries and rules. I don't want this, but I also can't keep our family in this limbo forever.
Can u share what happened this morning?
You can set boundaries for yourself as long as you are ready to enforce them.
You cant set rules for an adult. That shows that there is no respect.
It's a hot mess. This morning, my 9 year old son went to use my ipad and it opened to a web page that was titled "Life after Divorce." He flipped out. He's old enough to know something has been up (daddy sleeping downstairs for months). He was inconsolable.
I grabbed my husband and told him what happened. He, of course, continues to be a waffling, confused, incoherent mess. He comes out with "I'm not sure I'm leaving in September after vacation. I'm not sure anymore . . ." We agree to tell DS that mommy and daddy aren't getting along right now and that we love him and right now there are no plans for a divorce. Which is true.
I don't love this response because I know the nuance between a separation and a divorce is going to be lost on a 9 year old. And I honestly do not see how we can avoid the separation at this point.
We were able to calm him down and distract him. After this morning, though, all I can think of is how I need to protect the kids as much as possible. And their father's erratic behavior and selfishness is too damaging. I think at this point he needs to go. I need him to go so we can work on healing and adjusting to the New Normal.
What I would add to what u say to s is this, it's not your fault, we love you, we are not getting on right now but we are working on making things better. No mention of divorce unless he asks. Trust me, I work with kids. Less is more while being open without details, if that makes sense?
As for the iPad, lock it so he has to have you unlock it and he doesn't get the surprises, you do.
Thanks. Right now, I'm definitely deep in the "anger" stage of grief. I'm so angry at him I'm shaking! Is it a bad sign if I actually enjoy this phase more because at least I'm not a sobbing mess?
I am going to be a fierce tiger warrior mama bear and be a strong harbor of safety and love for my boys. Whatever happens, they are going to feel safety, security, and love from me.
Now, how to get through the next few weeks before STBXH moves out? This will take some strength.
Mombear,
The anger stage is the best. It's the stage where you put sand on his bath soap and put salt in the sugar container and sugar in the salt shaker.
During the night, when he's asleep, he can become your canvas for an artistic outlet. Purple hair and a green permanent marker goatee.
While doing the wash there's the accidental Clorox spill, or two, or fifteen. And the Tabasco toothpaste. Does he like capers in his salad? Capers look like rodent droppings. Hmmmm...
And the list goes on. Have fun with it and don't get thrown in jail.
Have you read the DB/DR books yet?
I've read DB. Although after today, seeing my son's face, I'm not sure I want to reconcile. I just want to use the rules to help me detach and get on with life. I don't even like this man. Maybe it is just my anger, but doing this to the kids is unforgivable.
Trust me it's your anger. Your emotions are going to go up and down during this period. It's why they call it the roller coaster. Don't try to psychoanalyze your H. Even if it is depression, there's nothing you can do about it until he decides to do something. It's like alcoholism. To the person, there is no problem until they acknowledge it.
When he starts his spew, hold up your hand and tell him that while you understand that he has frustrations, he is not allowed to talk to you like that. Get your self-esteem back.
Sounds like your H is in classic MLC mode. Concentrate on yourself.
I can't speak to a MLC like Mr Bond and others.
I'd just remind you: Anger is the opposite of love. The alien you see before you is not your H, don't try to understand him/it. I have a WW. There was a period of 2 days where I literally felt hate in my heart for her. It was the angriest I've ever felt, and it scared me so much I started therapy. It will pass. Feel it, and let it out when you can.
Tonight after I put the boys to bed, he sulked around outside my room and asked if I'd like to come down and watch a show with him. I declined, let him know I was planning to read my book. It felt nice.
Mombear,
I am linking a thread...it isn't the one I wanted but it will work...
See if any of it resonates with you...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960393&page=1
cat04, that was amazing. It was like an exact script of what is going on in his head! For reals. I almost want to print it out and give it to him.
Today we have a joint session with a therapist, ostensibly to figure out what to tell the children. He's been all needy and clingy for the past day, so I have no idea what he's really going to try and talk about. I'm sure he'll go in there and be really cold and nasty, so as to counter the niceness and warmth he's been showing.
I did contact a lawyer, and before he got home from work yesterday I made copies of all our financial records.
Do NOT print that out, mention it to him or even mention MLC.
You can't fix him.
I do believe that is what you are dealing with and I think you should begin to educate yourself about it.
In counseling, just talk about what your stated agenda is.
I am glad that you are educating yourself with a lawyer. It is important to be prepared.
As a friend of mine used to say, become like a duck when it comes to his mood swings and words. Learn how to just let the stuff roll off your back like water off of a ducks.
I won't print it out for him. Maybe I'll stuff it in his pillowcase the day he moves out.
(just kidding!!!!)
I still have to pinch myself to remind myself this is happening, that this is real. If someone told me a year ago I'd be in the midst of this, I'd never have believed it.
I won't print it out for him. Maybe I'll stuff it in his pillowcase the day he moves out.
(just kidding!!!!)
You could have it tattooed on his @ss and then video him while he's trying to read it.
I still have to pinch myself to remind myself this is happening, that this is real. If someone told me a year ago I'd be in the midst of this, I'd never have believed it.
It is unbelievably surreal! It wasn't that long ago that my wife told me that I was the love of her life. I'm just happy I wasn't the hate of her life; I'd probably be the hamburger meat on somebody's fast food burger.
Hello MomBear,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Michele has actually written an article regarding what and how to tell the kids regarding divorce. Please email me and I will send you the link.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
So last night we had a joint counseling session. It was tough - we went there with the intent of getting advice on what to tell our children. It is hard, because as I mentioned, the 9 year old knows something is up. When we told them mommy and daddy were going to a meeting, he said "Is it so you can learn to get along better and not get a divorce?" It broke my heart. And when we came back, about an hour and a half later, he was waiting outside for us, and ran up to the car saying "Did you fight? Did it work?"
On the up side, the therapist is amazing. Seriously. I've been seeing him by myself, and he encouraged me to bring in my husband, who did agree to come under the pretense of getting advice on how to tell the children about a potential divorce, and/or giving his side of the story in the hope that it helps the therapist help me move forward.
The therapist put him at ease right away, and got him talking about where he is at, how we got here. It is the most open and talkative I've seen my husband in a long time. The therapist kept pressing on the fact that he signed a lease and has a new place to live, but has no plans to move out. Got my husband to admit he's running away from his problems. Got my husband to admit that we were very much in love less than a year ago.
Where we left it was that we are going to just take a break from relationship talk, go on this family vacation next week, and then regroup with this therapist when we are back, the first week of September. My husband agreed to this.
I would not say we are in reconciliation, so much as a holding pattern. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I am actually quite confident we can have a great time as a family - we fell in love when we were traveling abroad together, and we do this very well together.
I'm fully aware there is a very high chance I'll be back here in September, but for now I feel like I need to try this. I'm not going to be needy or clingy or even bring our marriage up during the trip - I'm going to just have a good time and try to be the best "me" I can be.
Wish me luck, and be here to catch me when I fall!
On the up side, the therapist is amazing. Seriously. I've been seeing him by myself, and he encouraged me to bring in my husband, who did agree to come under the pretense of getting advice on how to tell the children about a potential divorce, and/or giving his side of the story in the hope that it helps the therapist help me move forward.
Am I clear that you tricked your H into going to therapy?
Just a question...cuz I like to ask them
I am going to encourage you to keep posting during this time. It will keep your story fresh and hopefully help keep you on your current path.
We will be here if you fall.
Remember NO EXPECTATIONS!
LOL . . . I'm not sure if I tricked him in to it or if our therapist did the tricking! We did walk in there with the full intention of doing what we discussed - get the therapist's advice on how to deal with the children. I think my husband was taken aback by how personable the therapist was and how different he was from our marriage counselor. My husband just kept talking and talking, and the therapist went with it.
The therapist keyed in on the fact that my husband has no immediate plans to move out (like hasn't hired movers, etc.) and said that he doesn't think we should tell the kids ANYTHING until we know what is going to happen. And that is when they continued talking, honing in on his uncertainty, etc.
My husband didn't seem to feel like he got tricked into it - he said after that the guy was nice and easy to talk to.
No expectations on my part. I can't lie, I do have hope, but I gotta try.
Hope is good. Hope is what gets you through this.
Expectations will kill you though.
I am glad your H didn't appear to feel tricked. Just don't be surprised if one of these days he says you tricked him into going.
Par for the course.
Hope you have a great day.
Update!!!
Vacation went well. It was wonderful. In the spirit of DB, I didn't do any relationship status check ins. I just had fun, enjoyed myself, and had a great time with my boys.
My husband and I met and fell in love traveling, and we do it well together. We immediately fell back in to that comfortable vacation mode, where we got each other, brought out the best in each other, and laughed nonstop.
We got home late last night and my husband returned to the master bedroom. No sex yet, and I know I need to talk to him soon about what this means. I'm not intending to just let him have the best of both worlds... We can't live like a married couple while he moves towards moving out.
I guess this means I'm in maybe an early reconciliation stage? What do I do? What do I say? Help, please.
Update!!!
Vacation went well. It was wonderful. In the spirit of DB, I didn't do any relationship status check ins. I just had fun, enjoyed myself, and had a great time with my boys.
My husband and I met and fell in love traveling, and we do it well together. We immediately fell back in to that comfortable vacation mode, where we got each other, brought out the best in each other, and laughed nonstop.
We got home late last night and my husband returned to the master bedroom. No sex yet, and I know I need to talk to him soon about what this means. I'm not intending to just let him have the best of both worlds... We can't live like a married couple while he moves towards moving out.
I guess this means I'm in maybe an early reconciliation stage? What do I do? What do I say? Help, please.
Why can't you live like a married couple while he makes plans to move out?
I'm not up on your sitch, but it sounds like there isn't an affair in the mix, or any abuse. Is that correct?
If it is correct, I would NOT have a talk about what it all means. No R talks. Let the situation evolve as it evolves.
This does put you at risk for hurt if it blows up, but that's going to hurt anyway. I decided for me that the increased chance of success was worth the small additional hurt.
Just my two cents.
Mombear-- pretty amazing development. I had a similar turn of events in my M, where my WW/MLC went to therapy with me, but she bailed after two sessions. I'm envious of your story. I think finding a therapist w/ a good fit is difficult, so you were lucky.
I too often walk around feeling like I'm in a dream, a bad nightmare. There is just a surreal quality to it all, like, is this really happening. Just doesn't seem to fit with the reality I remember.
Your H admitting he is just running away from his problem is a huge step, I think!!!
I totally understand the dream feeling. It has all felt like a dream, that I have had to keep reminding myself that this is my life now. We really are/were soul mates, and this behavior is so out of left field. I'm glad he was able to get back in touch with himself enough to open up again and remember our love.
This probably sounds crazy, but I am a religious person and I really do believe that in his depression, he was more vulnerable to evil and hatred. He was drawn in by the darkness and couldn't even see the light.
I'm by no means out of the woods... Because he still has a separate apartment! This could all come crashing down in a matter of seconds. But for now, I'm holding on.
All the best to you both for even better things to come. Happy to see progress and good news on this forum.
Oh for goodness sake. I knew it was too good to be true!
Last night, he was huffing and puffing around the house, clearly out of sorts and annoyed. But of course when I asked him what was wrong he just said "nothing, I'm fine."
At bedtime, he said he felt very small and like everyone was against him, judging him. He said he felt like pretty much everyone in his life - his own parents, siblings, extended family, our neighbors, etc. think he's making a mistake and he's tired of feeling judged. Acknowledged that this isn't my fault, but did say that he can't help but feel resentful that everyone seems to be on my "side."
It wasn't an angry talk - we held hands as we were talking. He slept in the master bedroom again after the talk. But he's not coming to therapy with me today.
I don't know what this is - a setback? Nothing? All I know is that he needs to make a decision. He can't just stay here and neither work on reconciliation or work towards leaving. We've been doing that since the end of June. It is time to make a decision.
AAARRRGGGHHH!! So frustrated.
At bedtime, he said he felt very small and like everyone was against him, judging him. He said he felt like pretty much everyone in his life - his own parents, siblings, extended family, our neighbors, etc. think he's making a mistake and he's tired of feeling judged. Acknowledged that this isn't my fault, but did say that he can't help but feel resentful that everyone seems to be on my "side."
Mombear,
Have you tried yelling at him and hitting him with a baseball bat?
Is there some particular reason he needs to make a decision now?
I hate limbo, so I can understand wanting to get out of it, but I think sometimes spouses who are struggling have the mental strength to not leave, but don't have the mental strength to actively recommit to working on the M. Especially in the absence of affairs or abuse, I don't know if pushing for an answer is in the best interest of preserving a marriage.
I really want to just shake him and say "That is because everyone in your life thinks you are making a mistake and acting like a total idiot!" And that he DESERVES to be judged, and that he SHOULD feel small for what he is doing.
But I didn't. I just listened, validated how he was feeling, and tried to equate it to an intervention - explained that those people all love him and want what is best for him and will love him no matter what.
As to the other question - the reason I feel like he needs to make a decision sooner than later is because we have young kids, and the 9 year old knows something is up. He's saying things like "I'm so glad daddy is sleeping in your bed again!" I don't think it is healthy for them to witness this.
I really want to just shake him and say "That is because everyone in your life thinks you are making a mistake and acting like a total idiot!" And that he DESERVES to be judged, and that he SHOULD feel small for what he is doing.
This is natural. And oh boy do they deserve it. Good job letting it go through you.
It's always tough knowing how they're harming their own children....
With my H, pushing him to make a decision would have made him more likely to leave than to stay. I thought it was in the best interests of all of us to give him all the time he needed to decide to stay.
How have you framed this for your kids? I don't think it has to be unhealthy for them.
H and his siblings all bought the "Dad is sleeping in the basement because it's cooler and more comfortable" excuse and didn't realize until decades later that their parents' marriage had been hanging by a thread for years.
I do sympathize. I'm the sort that likes to know what is what and be able to plan. But I know in my case, I had to learn to let go of that in order to give the marriage the best chance.
Best of luck.
Rose, you are right. I know you are right. I'm just growing weary of this. I may just tell him from now on, I am happy to listen but I'm not really going to get drawn in to these discussions unless he's willing to go to therapy with me. I see our issues as requiring external intervention at this point. Is that harsh?
Rose, you are right. I know you are right. I'm just growing weary of this. I may just tell him from now on, I am happy to listen but I'm not really going to get drawn in to these discussions unless he's willing to go to therapy with me. I see our issues as requiring external intervention at this point. Is that harsh?
Mombear,
I completely agree with you that some sort of external intervention would be helpful, but if the WH doesn't want marriage counseling or individual counseling, then it's just not going to work.
I've been through the experience; I begged my wife to go to our third, and unfortunately final, MC session. It just made things worse - far worse.
I'm not going to beg him to go. I'm not even going to ask him to go. I'm simply going to have a common theme to my answers. I'll listen, validate, and tell him my opinion is that a therapist could help us work through these issues.
The sad thing is that I can see this train wreck coming from miles and miles away. He's going to leave, and his life isn't going to get any better, and he'll continue to blame me for everything. People will be disappointed him because he's acting like a selfish jerk, and he'll think I'm behind it all. But I can only control what I can control.
The sad thing is that I can see this train wreck coming from miles and miles away. He's going to leave, and his life isn't going to get any better, and he'll continue to blame me for everything. People will be disappointed him because he's acting like a selfish jerk, and he'll think I'm behind it all. But I can only control what I can control.
Mombear,
Yep, the wayward spouses seem to have to go through the bowels of hell. Fortunately, we can chose not to follow them there. I much prefer the lighthouse. (See how I'm mixing metaphors?)
Mombear--
I think most people in here would say that 2 months is really not very long for a confused spouse to be ... confused. Look at people's signatures -- lots of them have bomb drops that happened many months ago, with no clear resolution as of today. Your own situation and your own needs are different, but it may help to see that other people deal with problems for much longer than 2 months.
My advice is, when you talk to him, frame the problem only in terms of him figuring out his thoughts and feelings. Don't frame the problem as, "we need to fix our marriage." Tell him he needs to do whatever it takes to get to a healthier place. I like using the word "healthy" because healthy doesn't mean simply happy and joyful. He needs to figure out what he wants to do as a husband, as a father, and as a man.
It sounds to me like he's got some serious, deep-seated issues. It's not about just your marriage. It's going to take some time for him to figure it out.
Mombear,
How are you today?
I agree with ForGump.
Two months, (although I know you have been dealing with this longer), really isn't very long at all for this...
It didn't take your H a short time to get to where he is and it's going to take him however long it takes for him to figure his stuff out.
Unless you want a divorce, I wouldn't push him to make his decisions quickly.
I also agree that your H is dealing with things that are bigger than your marriage.
Please keep posting. Venting, journaling. It will help you make sense of something that makes no sense.