Hi all,
I'm in the mountains with Son and keeping busy, but just stopping in to say hi. Having a great time myself, but unfortunately my son broke up with his g-friend 1 am on Monday and we left on road trip at 4am... Not really the R free week I wanted, it was his first g-friend and he's pretty bummed, and not talking to me about it so he's just mopping around, but doing my best to try and keep his spirits up.
Blu, I am not willing to do nothing, the house has to go, I can wait for D, but I want to sell the house and S from her..
RSG, great updates on your sitch, doing well bud, keep up the spirits and minimal communication.
previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2691731#Post2691731
Cnut, thanks for the encouragement!! I'm doing my best. The pangs to contact are nearly gone. Yesterday was huge for me. Sometimes I feel like she's literally a fish out of water, flipping and flopping all over. Some of the info made my mind wander, but nothing too bad.
Sorry to hear about your boy. "Son. Women don't know anything. Like your Mom." Lol. Seriously, I'd like to say it to my S too.....but obviously inappropriate. Glad you're having fun, and I hope he's able to have some too.
Cadet, thanks for adding the links, service was spotty at best in the mountains but I didn't want to be on electronics anyway...
So had a great work, I only text WW once to tell her when we arrived, and she only text me two or three times the first two days, then I just told son to make sure he text her at least once a day and didn't think about it again. She only came up twice during conversation with father in law, and that was primarily logistical stuff, house, furniture, etc...
I really didn't think about sitch much when gone, but my how things changed once I got back.. A friend who is a friend of hers on Facebook asked me if A was ongoing when we took my nieces to the fire station, I said yes I found out afterwards that it was and why do you ask, and they told me she put pic of my nieces on the fire truck with her as her Facebook picture... Well hello anger, it's been awhile. I text her and told her I'd like her to take that pic down, she shouldn't of brought them there knowing what was going on, and it is a slap in the face to me to put that pic up... She said no... Well hello rage, I thought we were done.
I laid into her, said every mean thing I could think of, and then found some more to say... And started packing my stuff. Gave her a list of valuable marital property that we've accumulated and asked her to identify what she wants so we can start sorting through so I know what I need to pack. She asked why, am I planning on leaving before September, I told her it was likely and am still waiting for the list back.
I've got most of my stuff packed already, except for the garage, but that's gonna be tough to go through and sort out. My plan is to get a storage room and start bringing stuff there, just keeping the stuff I use regularly out until I get my own place. And having a garage sale for most of the stuff in there that is really only needed if you own a home.
Moving out seems like a really good move. It's nice to see you taking steps to make that happen.
I hope, for your sake and the sake of any future partners, that you are in counseling to address your anger issues and your need to control your partner.
I say the man should be allowed to be angry. Not saying its right or he handled it well or even correctly but i sympathise and understand that anger all to well.
Ofcourse if it becomes a re-occurring theme and is affecting his relationship with son and or other people then okay maybe its time to get some anger management.
Moving out seems like a really good move. It's nice to see you taking steps to make that happen.
I hope, for your sake and the sake of any future partners, that you are in counseling to address your anger issues and your need to control your partner.
You may not believe me, but I don't have an anger problem, except for my WWs laxidazic attitude towards my feelings. In my life, I've only lost my temper twice before all of this, and I was a teenager those two times and were directed at other guys.. I've never gotten angry on a regular basis before, and in fact maybe get angry once or twice a year, I'm pretty laid back and happy most of the time.
My anger at my W has only been witnessed by son once (other than seeing the busted bathroom door and slashed tires) and that was when she busted into my room and started throwing all my stuff around. The episode yesterday was by text.. He obviously sees that we avoid each other, but that's better than seeing bitterness together, but our infrequent interactions in front of son are courteous and I have never talked poorly of her to him and don't refrain from mentioning mom to him when conversing.
I say the man should be allowed to be angry. Not saying its right or he handled it well or even correctly but i sympathise and understand that anger all to well.
Ofcourse if it becomes a re-occurring theme and is affecting his relationship with son and or other people then okay maybe its time to get some anger management.
I feel this way too. Frankly the only thing I regret post BD is not doing what Coconut has done. I handled myself like a gentleman from start to finish. I really wish on many days that I had put OM in the hospital and told XW off with words she'd never be able to forget. OK, I don't exactly regret it, but I don't blame anyone for doing this either. Not at all.
I still daydream of kidnapping the OM and i dont even want the W back anymore.
Sorry hijacking your thread.
Just needed to get some stuff out, no rhyme or reason, just writing...
Feel so lost and confused, I feel like I don’t know where I am or where I want to go, how do I get out of this daze? My sons world is going to be turned upside down, I could stop that by staying were I am, but how do I manage being around her, how do I keep the anger and hurt at bay?
On one hand I relish the freedom, I can leave or I can stay, I’ve always wanted to live in the country and now I have the chance. But do I leave my Son, am I unable to heal without disappearing, am I even able to heal if I do. Will going just make me wish they were there to share in the adventure, will I enjoy it without someone there? But the anger, I’ve never felt such anger, it boils up in me and makes me want to unleash my fury. The pain I feel, it feels so unfair, I want to make her hurt too, but doing so doesn’t take it away from me. I’ve been mean, I’ve been nice, but nothing feels right, I don’t even know what right is anymore.
How do you heal when the person that holds your heart shatters it, how do you get past the indifference to the love that you shared, was it ever real???? How could she do what she did and kiss me hello or goodbye… I want to get away, get as far away from it all as possible, but will it come with me, if it is in me how do I get it out? Do I face it head on, or hide and hope it doesn’t find me, I just want it to go away but no matter how much I wish it away it keeps coming back.
Need to live in the moment, not think about the future or cry about the past, just see today for what it is and make it the best it can be. I can do this, I can be the best me I can be, but then the pain and sadness comes back… Still so much disbelief that this is where my life is, in this moment I am in a place I never thought existed, this place where I’ve lost everything in the world that I ever daydreamed about, planned for, and expected. My demons are real, my need to have a plan and feel like I’m working towards something keep eating away at me, but how do you make a plan to act upon when you don’t even know where you are..
Coconut,
Get a punching bag and a copy of ELO's Evil Woman. Crank up the music and release the hounds.
just for clarification, not angry right now, just thoughts about my ever changing emotions, wants and needs that keep coming and going.
Oh! I guess I'm the one that's angry. Projection - sorry.
I would probably move to an apartment nearby and save any move out of the area for after S moves to college.
If you find that living in your own space in the area is not helping you enough, you can always revisit the decision.
I'm sorry. The whole thing [censored].
Feel so lost and confused, I feel like I don’t know where I am or where I want to go, how do I get out of this daze? My sons world is going to be turned upside down, I could stop that by staying were I am, but how do I manage being around her, how do I keep the anger and hurt at bay?
On one hand I relish the freedom, I can leave or I can stay, I’ve always wanted to live in the country and now I have the chance. But do I leave my Son, am I unable to heal without disappearing, am I even able to heal if I do. Will going just make me wish they were there to share in the adventure, will I enjoy it without someone there? But the anger, I’ve never felt such anger, it boils up in me and makes me want to unleash my fury. The pain I feel, it feels so unfair, I want to make her hurt too, but doing so doesn’t take it away from me. I’ve been mean, I’ve been nice, but nothing feels right, I don’t even know what right is anymore.
How do you heal when the person that holds your heart shatters it, how do you get past the indifference to the love that you shared, was it ever real???? How could she do what she did and kiss me hello or goodbye… I want to get away, get as far away from it all as possible, but will it come with me, if it is in me how do I get it out? Do I face it head on, or hide and hope it doesn’t find me, I just want it to go away but no matter how much I wish it away it keeps coming back.
((Coconut)), I wanted to let you know that I am still here. I have not forsaken you. When I read your post, I cried, b/c it expresses the power of betrayal. I cried for you and every spouse who has ever worn these shoes. I cried for my own H, and the pain he endured from my betrayal. You see, he would not talk to me about it. So, I hear it from those that are here on the board. After nine years, it still hurts to know what I did to the one who loved me most.
I can't tell you how to get through it. I feel I am better suited to give advice about the WW. So if I don't have as much to say at this point of your journey....just know that I care very much, and I check every day to see if you have posted.
I'm sorry C-nut. I know the pain and the betrayal, wondering if anything was ever real.
I honestly can't tell you how I've done it, but I have healed, with a few scars left behind. I healed with a blaring A in my face. With my infant daughter spending time with OW, with them moving in together, through their marriage.
Betrayal is a very tough one to get over. But it is doable. What you know or knew to be true is true. don't discredit what you felt and what you had at one point.
It is a process that can't be rushed as much as we want it to. I do suggest you stay in IC to deal with the pain and the feelings all over the place.
It does fade as long as you don't allow yourself to get stuck there. But you still have to get through it, you can't get over it.
Hey C-Nut, Nothing you can but feel all of it. You will come out the other side. I did. I spent months feeling that way (i started grieving even before physical sep cause im psychic). You will feel the lowest of lows but it will pass.
You will find hope in yourself and son when you are ready. The sun can only rise after darkness.
Cnut. Sorry to hear it man. We do sound similar. I hit those peaks of anger and valleys of despair the same way.
The pain you feel is unfair. You have been wronged in a terrible way. This is why I feel like, once D has been decided upon, it's more than OK to have an anger session and let them have it. You've gotta get it out, and they deserve to hear how you feel.
Your love was real. If it wasn't, you wouldn't be so angry about what she's done. You can do this brother. You need to be the strength for your son. You can do that.
Hope that helped a little, just trying to pay you back for the great advice you've given me.
((Coconut)), I wanted to let you know that I am still here. I have not forsaken you. When I read your post, I cried, b/c it expresses the power of betrayal. I cried for you and every spouse who has ever worn these shoes. I cried for my own H, and the pain he endured from my betrayal. You see, he would not talk to me about it. So, I hear it from those that are here on the board. After nine years, it still hurts to know what I did to the one who loved me most.
I can't tell you how to get through it. I feel I am better suited to give advice about the WW. So if I don't have as much to say at this point of your journey....just know that I care very much, and I check every day to see if you have posted.
Sandi2, I've read what I posted 30 times today and it's made me cry every time.. I'm not an artistic type person, but I wrote these emotions out as honest and unfiltered as I could, as I imagine a true artist evokes emotion from their writing by making themselves vulnerable and allow others to see their true self... I have no doubt your H was hurt by what occurred, but knowing the demons you faced and the reluctance you initially had being in the same room with, much less piecing with your H, he also got the best of you when you decided you wanted to Love him.
That is where my WW is lacking, she doesn't have an understanding that everyday isn't going to be roses, that there are things about our spouses that are not going to be attractive and may even be repulsive, but if you don't give up, if you truly WANT to love that person, you will find happiness with the good, and true acceptance of the other things.
It's been many years since I've seen it, but in the movie Good Will Hunting, Robin Williams said that when he thought of his deceased W, the things he remembered most fondly of his W were the things no one else got to share, like Her farts under the covers and how embarrassed she would get. true happiness in M requires getting past the superficial, getting past looking to others for acceptance of who you've chosen, and appreciating getting to share in the "real life" of the person your with, and having someone else know the real you as well...
You've given that and so much more to your H. I truly believe a good person can make bad mistakes, but it takes an exceptional person to not only recognize their mistake, but suffer through their repulsion of someone, knowing that they will do anything to find the Love again.. You are an amazing woman Sandi2, I hope your husband knows how lucky he is to share his life with you. Not to mention the countless number of people you've helped understand their WW, I've said it before, but I'll repeat that I believe God put you through your trials so you could gain the knowledge needed to help so many others..
To everyone else, I appreciate your support, at the present time I'm just fumbling my way through this mess, I'm not in the best place right now so I've been lacking in sharing with others on their threads, but I am reading and will interject when I feel I have something to offer... I will be back to my normal self eventually, but for now I'm grieving and keeping to myself a little.
Coconut,
Putting my arms around you right now friend, let it all out. We're all got your 6.
Doodled. Love this! Get the guns on Coconut. "Welcome to the Jungle"! Or better still Rage Against the Machine - you know the tune!
Apologies was responding to the 'punch bag' comment.
Coconut.
This is the most important bit in my mind:
"how do I keep the anger and hurt at bay?"
You don't keep anger at bay. Is a feeling. Just recognise it, but don't react to it.
"how do I keep hurt at bay?" Detach.
You have done it before. Focus. PROPERLY. No more dipping in and out. CT knows. RSG too. We have all done it. Mate. Detach.
Feel who YOU are - not this messed up person. That's not YOU.
Jog on. Slowly. Build the power.
Surfer.
Ok, so signing the listing agreement for the house today, also have been applying for jobs out of state... Haven't been offered a job yet, but I believe the house will sell pretty quickly, so it's the step that needs to be done to move on... But still some question as to if I want to start over with her or alone. Still some doubt, so I sent the following text, not expecting anything but felt the need to send it..
I just want to make sure that this is the path you want to go down before I sign the agreement, by path I mean Divorce. It would take a lot from each of us to make us work, and a long time to get there, but I am willing to do whatever I can to save our marriage and be happy together.
I don't know how I feel about you right now, I don't think we've even talked in over a month, but what I do know is that feelings change. If someone would have told me on our wedding day what was to come in our future, there is no way that I would of believed I would of ever felt the way I have about you over the last few months, so I know that feelings do change, and I believe that I want to love you enough to be able to get back to that place.
I am absolutely not ok with a 3 person marriage, and saving our marriage would require absolutely no contact with him, not even risking seeing him in a crowd at a meeting. I am not flexible on that boundary, I want my wife to be my person, and me hers, and I'm not willing to have another person in the mix.
My only other boundary would be transparency (until trust is rebuilt), complete openness to goings on, no secrets, no hiding things...
Reconciling would literally require starting from scratch, not going back to "usual", but going slow and deliberate.
I'm not asking if you Love me right now, I'm not asking if you even like me right now, I'm asking if you want to love me again and do what's needed to spend the next 40 years of our life together.
And a response close to what I expected...
To answer your question, no, I don't want to be divorced. However, the only way to save our marriage is for me to quit the fire department & give up something I love. It always comes back to that. I didn't want this. The situation has come to this.
You & Son were my world until you stopped being you. I don't really feel like I know who you are anymore. I realize you're hurt & I've thought long and hard about how I would act if the roles were reversed. I would be hurt & angry but I could never do or say some of the things that you've done & said to me over the last few months & specifically the last few weeks. I don't know how to get passed that.
You continue to act like I slept with him & you say the most hateful things to me. Things that will stay with me forever. At this point you are not the only one who would have a lot of forgiving to do & things to get passed. Do I want our family to be broken up, absolutely not but do I want to give up something that I've worked so hard for & live the rest of my life under a microscope in order to try to prove to you that I'm not doing anything wrong? I don't know that I can do that.
I definitely don't know how I feel about you right now. A part of me will always love you because you've been the great love of my life but I definitely don't like you right now.
Hi Coconut, I have a letter that I wrote to my wife but haven't given it to her similar to your text. A mutual friend of ours who has had numerous conversations with my W doesn't think she is still involved with the OM. My W's last words before she moved out where that she didn't enter this marriage to split up. I know at the time it was probably just for her own mind rather than a proper apology. I have been torn about giving it to her and reading you do this has shifted the balance a little again. I am currently working out my plan for our house and her piano, I guess that is what makes me think about giving her the letter. Does she really want this before I move forward with selling the piano and deciding if I sell the house.
I don't have any advice for you, sorry since I feel in similar position as yourself. I also feel my W is similar to yours, hurt by actions and things I have said but still not recognising her part in what is needed to move forward as a family.
I have been away on vacation with the kids for the past 3 weeks, so I do need to read back on your story.
Cnut!
I think you did the right thing in your situation. You are in a place of unknown and just want some sort of guidance from her on her thoughts. I think its strong of you to share the feelings you did with her. Her response to me is something that says this isn't over. But unless she gives up academy it is over for you. I think that is completely fair at this point. I'm not sure where to go from here, but I do think you took a good step in the right direction either way.
Si, I will go back and read your sitch as well and respond directly...
CBT, my doppelgänger, I agree. My mind is set on divorce, I know that without major major changes from W, we will end up there anyway, I just wanted to let her know the door isn't locked... I'm really looking forward to moving away and my family fully supports me doing what is best for me.. But if the chance is there to save my M, and for it to be good, I wanted to let her know I'm still willing. I teared up a little when I read her response, but I feel it is still very selfish.. When comparing a 8 yr M to a volunteer position she been in for 5 months, she still chooses the volunteer position, but if that's her choice, then I know I must move forward. I'm willing to do the work, but not by myself.
As for her saying she's tried to think how she'd react, I think her response is laughable. Before my bachelor party she told me that she didn't want me to go to a strip club, so when my party decided a bachelor party decided a strip club was in order, I stayed in the van with my cousin while they went to a strip club, and when my bachelor party decided to have a waitress call her and say she should let me go to a strip club (which I didn't go to) she was hurt and said she wanted to call off the wedding (even though I didn't go or want the female waitress to call)... Not to mention when back then she asked me if I thought a co-worker was cute I said yes, she was overly jealous and asked me not to talk to her, I told her I have been friends with that co-worker for years and if something was going to happen it already would have, she was livid so I backed off, but yet she indicates she would not be completely devastated if I had an A after 8 years... It's almost laughable.
Anyway, I signed the listing agreement and am allowing her to move forward with that, I'm not going to do any work towards selling the house, that burden is hers to bear.
I really think being physically separated and not having contact, could go a long, long way in this case. She has said from day one that she didn't want a D. I understand the reasons behind your decision, and I certainly don't blame you. I just believe this M could be saved if the two of you were to spend sufficient time away from each other......and more importantly, if she would choose her MR over the firefighting.
She's right.....too much has been said. Nothing has been resolved, and now she's going to say she can't forgive what you have done & said. You have given her ammunition to fire back at your head.
Since you work together, I think you should find another place to work. Maybe moving to another location would be good for you. Whatever, I think you need to go completely dark on her. When her fantasy crumbles, she may find you and want to try again. It may take a couple of years, and you may or may not be interested.
I don't think she is going to leave the academy! She has made that point very clear! If she left anytime soon, she would be so bitter at you, that the MR wouldn't have much of a chance. I am going even further to say that I have doubts the M can reconcile as long as she's connected in any way to the FF's. I think she is so caught up in that world, that it feeds every emotional need she has, currently. I'm saying that even if OM moved to another country, I don't think it would cure her love affair with the whole firefighters family thing. I don't think it's just about OM. I think she was drawn to him b/c he's a FF! I'd be concerned that even when she and OM end their A.......she'll be finding her next FF lover. As long as she's in that tight little world....I believe it's a strong, romantic temptation. I don't think it's just the OM/affair that is her addiction.
Remember the night she lied about studying, and she was at the station fooling around with a couple of other FF. You didn't see her doing anything openly wrong.....but she LIED about it. You have said several times how pretty she is, and I have to wonder if it were all women hanging out at the station if she'd be staying that late at night, just kicking a ball around......and flirting....I mean, talking to the guys. When a woman is married and has a sixteen year old boy and a H at home......why would she go to the office and work all day, then go to the station and "study" till very late......if she was not getting some type of attention she wanted? If I recall, you were watching from a distance, right? So, yeah, I think she's caught up and having an emotional fantasy affair in the world of firefighters........and she's getting something in return. Whatever it is, she has chosen it over her M and family.
As usual, Sandi says it well. I can see you still have plenty of love left for this woman, but you cannot accept the possibility of being hurt again. Yes, your W seems to have an idea she wants you too and that your anger and actions turned her off. I see how you believe that's selfish, you DID act out but why? Because she lied, was still in an A while trying to reconnect, hid it, lied when confronted, created elaborate scenarios to go see the dbag and doesn't have much if any remorse about it.
I am glad you made the effort as CBT said, and Sandi is probably right about moving our and cutting contact. That said, I get your choice. We all have an irrevocable boundary and she crossed yours.....
Just the fact we are talking about firefighters i think is interesting. They are, by definition, a fantasy of women, the fantasy 'rescuers'. (please, if there are any real firefighters here, forgive me and hold your fire)
I get it. Firefighter calendars are very sexy. But the reality is, what?the fantasy of seeing them sitting around a station doing nothing, getting flirted with, waiting for action.
I like Sandi's advice. When the fantasy is strong, you can't really compete with that, right? I'm with someone right now who thinks that dating/f****ing/whatevering other women is going to help him understand who he is and what women are attracted to him and why he does what he does. Ridiculous, right? All fantasies, and there we are, in reality, jobs and busted marriages and kids and bills. I probably will be told to go dark and let him go too, i'll find out tonight, actually.
Point being, we can't compete with fantasies. I think they need to feel the cold hard stainless steel seat of reality before people like us are even appreciated. and that will take some serious time.
Altar,
Spot on, I am sure in reality there are very few FF's that have a six pack and an oiled up chest! Similarly, there may be a few strippers that may not have, or had either a life of abuse and/or drug abuse. I don't know anyone that has a stripper as a G/F or wife - but its a very profitable and prolific fantasy.
I think my W has a uniform, out with the girls flirting fantasy. There is the opposite here also, I am sure many a bloke will like the fantasy of sex with a 40 years of mother of a D8 and S6, but when they start living the life, bills, nagging, nothings perfect.....etc That fantasy would fall too.
I think people need to check into reality more. Yes, enjoy your life, but make sure its not a fantasy..
Surfer.
I'm going to post a series of texts between my WW and I as an example of how you cannot talk sense into a WS... This is not DB, this is not being detached and validating, this is NOT what you want to do, but I'm passed trying to save my M so I had nothing to lose, but thought it might help to see there is no reasoning. You'll notice that when she says something I believe is not true and state a fact, she doesn't generally respond, that's pretty typical.
Me:
Visit any Betrayed Spouse support group, messaging board, or blog and you will see a great outpouring of comments when someone calls an affair a “mistake”.
I join them in that outcry and I try to never use mistake and affair in the same conversation.
In fact I remember the day that my husband called his affair “The biggest mistake of his life.” From the outside you would think a statement like that would make you feel better. But it didn’t, I recoiled at the statement and let all the reasons fly out of my mouth the affair was not a mistake.
When he visited his individual counselor a few days later his counselor used the “m” word and my husband relayed to him our conversation. He sat back and said “You know, she is correct.”
An affair is not a mistake.
Mistake vs. Choice
A mistake is something you misunderstand the meaning or intention of. Often it happens when you are trying to do something right, but get it wrong. Generally a mistake happens once and you learn from the negative result and don’t continue to repeat the same mistake.
A mistake is disempowering and offers a slip-up, error, or blunder.
An affair is a series of choices and deliberate decisions, often repeated, even whilst knowing the negative result. There is no misunderstanding the meaning or intention of the choice.
A choice is empowering and offers the power of selecting and option.
“You can never make the same mistake twice, because the second time you make it, it’s not a mistake, it’s a CHOICE.” – Stephen Denn
Characterizing an affair as a mistake is a misguided attempt to minimize the responsibility and intent by reducing the importance of it. After all, everyone makes mistakes, it therefore not a big deal, (and the other line that revolts me) it just happened. (See next blog on that!)
An affair is not a single misstep, but the result of a series of choices. The affair requires repetition of choices and the decision to deceive the faithful partner. I won’t go into the million and one choices that must be made starting from flirting to taking a vacation together, because I know you are well aware of those.
We make mistakes, and from those mistakes we learn and grow. We don’t generally pay for those mistakes for the rest of our lives and most of the time they do not cause trauma to another.
We make choices, and with those choices comes accepting the subsequent consequences and holding ourselves fully accountable. We have exercised poor judgement in making choices and the result is we learn from them as well.
Sometimes good people make really bad choices. It doesn’t mean they are bad people but rather they are human. Just as our mistakes do not define us, our choices don’t have to either.
What defines us is the choices and decision we make moving forward.
WW:
I understand that what I did was wrong, no doubt about it. I should have talked to you about how unhappy I was in our marriage but you are acting as if I had this long time affair in which I had sexual relations with the person. It was nothing of the sort & you are making me out to be this horrible person to everyone you talk to.
You have taken on the victim role so well. I don't really care what betrayed spouses websites say because I guarantee you that those affairs where for much longer periods of time & much more physical. That quite plainly is not what I did. I was sad, lonely & vulnerable & I made the wrong decision to act on that emotion but you are not an innocent party in all this & you seem to really think you are. I'm tired of carrying every single bit of the blame on my shoulders. I am more than willing to take the blame that I deserve, which is a lot but not all if it.
Me:
I take responsibility for who I had become, and I've done a lot to change it, many would say I'm like a new person and they are sorry for what I'm going through but happy to see who I've become.
But I take no responsibility in ending our marriage, your defiance to being open and honest, to do whatever you could do to try and fix our relationship, to repair trust between us is what killed our marriage. I stuck around when I found out you were in love with another man, I stuck around when I found out you were talking about him to others like he was a friend, I didn't give up until I heard you tell him you wanted to let him know why you were sad, something you never did with me, tell me how or why you were feeling.
I did everything I could to help us find our happiness by going to counseling for me, by scheduling it for us, by telling you everything I was doing to see if you were being faithful and everything I saw when doing so. I was completely honest about how I felt, what I thought and what I wanted/needed from you. You just kept telling me that you wanted things to go back to normal, when normal is what got us here.
I have not played victim, I've told everyone I talked to about my part in this, even to the point I verbalized my understanding of what you did to my family when I told them, because I was absent / distant and drinking, but I also told them the facts and they made their own decisions how to feel. I can tell you that my mom asked Eric if he had talked to you, and she said something to the effect of yeah, I haven't heard from her either.. It made me think she was sad about the fact you never reached out to her, I'm mind reading but that's what went through my head. I reached out to the ones I love for support and to live my life with them, you seem to have withdrawn from everyone.. The only people who haven't supported me at all are the two I wanted it most from, you and Austin. I never even got a real apology from you, just that you made a mistake you regret, but never an understanding of the hell it caused me...
I'm ok with where we are going, I don't like it but I know I can do this, but I'm having a hard time getting past the lies/deceit, and indifference you've shown to me since I found out. I honestly have no love for you right now, only anger. I realize I need to get past that, and I'm working on getting past the anger, I need to if I want to be a part of Austins life at all, but it's not an easy road to get down. As it stands now I am the only person I can worry about, the only relationship I can focus on is with myself. Austin has withdrawn from me, and I don't like it but I understand and respect his decision, and I don't have the ability to try and repair that right now, for now I just give him his space.
WW:
Well you've definitely not shown me this new great guy. All you've shown me is a mean, vindictive, cruel person. And you've taken no responsibility for your actions
Me:
Not until you went back to him
WW:
You're freaking crazy! I didn't go back to anyone. You just like to spread lies
Me:
I lie requires some belief it's not true, I've told you what I know and have not heard anything to make me believe it's not true... I know what you told him, I know you told Friend what not to text about him, I know you put some work in so other people didn't out your deceit.
WW:
The only reason you heard me tell her not to text me his name is because I told her the whole story & I didn't want her asking me questions or using his name in a text because the last time she did that you lost your mind. I told her that for my piece of mind.
ME:
I'm curious, when you say I've taken no responsibility for my actions, what does that mean? What does me taking responsibility look like? I feel like I have and am not sure why you think I haven't. Also, did you expand my whole text or just read the first two paragraphs?
WW:
I mean that you minimize anything I was going through over the last 2 years, tell me I'm exaggerating (like you have any [censored] clue what I was feeling), you place sole blame on me & have moved into the victim role very comfortably. It's just a little ridiculous. You don't see that my actions, although wrong & I take responsibility for that, are a result of your actions (or inaction). You can say what you want & I was the one who acted but when you were engaged & involved in our marriage, I texting with another person never even entered my mind. I was happy & content.
WW:
I only saw one small paragraph. Son hasn't withdrawn from you because of what's going on with us. He has withdrawn from both of us. He doesn't talk to me. I take him the the movies & its silence. He only goes because he wants to see a movie. He is sad about His ex gf & my dad is the only person he's talking to. His actions are not due to us.
WW:
I haven't spoken to your mom because I'm scared to. I want to, I miss her like crazy & she is very important to me. I plan to speak to her it I don't know what you've told her or what I'd be walking in.
WW:
I have no desire to speak to Cousin, I expect that your family would take your side. They think your perfect & I'm sure nothing you say to them will change their mind. Cousin constantly posting stupid [censored] on FB when this is really none of his business has made me really not want anything to do with him. Especially because he has zero room to talk [censored] about anyone. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Even if our relationship was reparable, my relationship with him is not
WW:
I have stopped defending myself to you because you don't believe me anyway so I feel like it's wasted breath. I did not continue a relationship with him. I was not in love with him. I said things to him that I didn't mean because I was looking for the companionship that I wasn't getting from you. You completely misunderstood my conversation with Friend. After I thought we decided to divorce I refriended him but that's it. I was trying to be honest with him about my intentions being that of a friend. That's it, regardless of what you think.
WW:
We do not talk at all. I see him once in a while at the station & I'm friends with him on FB but that's it. I have seen or talked to him on any type of messaging system in weeks.
ME:
That explanation doesn't explain you saying you wanted to let him know why you were sad the night before or that you didn't want to have secrets
ME:
Quote from her- I said things to him that I didn't mean because I was looking for the companionship that I wasn't getting from you.
That part is definitely not true, because after we had our first discussion I recognized what I was doing and completely changed my attention to you and Austin.. Austin noticed it, accepted it and loved it... But you ran from my attention and then started the affair, so don't say you did it because you weren't getting attention from me
WW:
I did
ME:
Then that's on you, because I was giving you all the attention I could when you started the affair.. If you chose not to accept the attention, that's on you
WW:
Of course. It's always on me. Well in your mind anyway.
ME:
So are you saying I wasn't trying to spend time with you, give you attention and affection when you started the affair? I'm confused
That's why I asked you to go to individual counseling, because almost 5 months after having the affair I still don't think you understand why you did it...
ME:
My personal belief (not saying I'm right just what I think) is that the emotional connection (or possibly mid life crises) was already happening, he was perusing you and you loved the attention, which is why I noticed a difference in you.. Then when I started showing you attention you felt guilty because you saw that I could change and we could work things out, but you wanted the high you got from him and the firefighting... You didn't want to stop the high, so you pushed me away thinking I wouldn't go anywhere and escalated the affair to increase the high.
And I'm not the only one that saw you change, I believe others asked you about what was going on with you
WW:
You would love to think that I'm going through a mid-life crises, I know but it's just not true. A. I'm not at the mid-life crises age. B. I'm not evaluating my life or feeling like I have to be young again. I'm enjoying life, enjoying feeling healthy by exercising & taking care of myself which is something that I've always done.
It's pretty funny that you automatically act like I'm going through all these changes because I feel good about myself. I know that you haven't done any real activity in years & you wouldn't understand the feeling you get when you work out, see progress & feel good about yourself. No one has said anything to me about "Changes" they see in me. They've told you because everyone is trying come up with reasons for why we are going through this. Cousin 1 and Cousin 2 can say they see changes in me all they want but truth is they have hardly seen me in the last 6 months so they have no clue.
My reasons as I've stated before & have not changed for joining the FD are to be a good example for son, to do something good for my community, to give me something to focus on when Son leaves & to challenge myself. That's it. You and cousins aren't doctors so let's leave the diagnosis to the professionals & stop trying to act like your even remotely qualified to diagnose me.
WW:
Also, I do plan on speaking to a therapist soon but because I want to. I believe it'll help me deal with our situation & it'll be good for me.
ME:
So your BFF didn't ask you if there was someone at the station because u were acting weird
Or your mom didn't tell you she thought you might be going through a mid life crises
All before anyone knew about the affair
ME:
Ps look up mid life crises, you had your 40th bday (big deal to you) and you had a 35 year old friend die, call can be common causes
That was the last text... Only communication since was her asking me if I'm moving out before house sells when she saw me packing stuff up this morning. I just said "I'm not sure".
Wow!
That's a lot Cnut!
Please don't get mad at me for saying this, but you still love her and want to be with her. Your angry. That is an opposite of love. If you were indifferent and ready to move forward you wouldn't even have that conversation.
I wouldn't worry about what she is doing or not. I think a physical separation is a good idea at this point.
I don't think she is ignoring everything as much as she believes what she is telling you to be is truth.
I am just saying this as outside observer of the conversation, but there seemed to be a lot of mind reading on your part.
Remember you are not her. You do not know what she is thinking or feeling.
Man this is tough stuff.
I know people say marriage shouldn't be this hard, but every couple that I have talked to that has been together for 25 years or longer says they have been through years were they didn't want to be in there marriage any longer
I don't know what you want in the end and I am not sure you do either right now. At least not with any certainty, so I think you should move out for a week and start there
I'm passed trying to save my M so I had nothing to lose
What does not wanting to be married anymore have to do with trying to have effective communication? Are you suggesting that listening and validating are only tools to restore your marriage?
cbt, I don't know what us working it out would look like anymore. I miss what we had, but I really don't think I want her back right now.. But if she came to me one day and said I quite FF, I can't believe I did what I did, could you ever forgive me, I would probably feel different. But that's not going to happen.
Darkness, not saying that at all, in fact my communication with others has munched improved... Just so much anger with her, I don't even want to talk to her much less validate her feelings..
This was a pretty big conversation!
I think this is a spot on illustration of the Rashomon effect. 2 (or more) people seeing the same event but having completely different memories of it.
She recognizes she did wrong, but refuses to work with you in any way on your #1 boundary and doesn't accept how much she hurt you. Because of that, you're afraid it'll just restart and you'll be hurt again. It seems there is common love, but neither of you will give. You want her away from a male dominated area where a pretty woman will receive oodles of attention, and she wants to do something for herself she feels is giving back, fun and will keep her from having empty nest syndrome.
I think, like CBT, if you moved out and maybe gave a little on the FF you could really work on things. But, again, we all have our boundaries and FF is #1 for you....
I am no vet, but I read ohope in that conversation.Her words are nor perfect. Her sentiments neither. I think deep down both of you prefer to stay together. You are right to not want that without the right conditions and commitment from her.
Sandi can hit me with a 2x4 if she disagrees, but maybe your actions/reactions and interactions contributed to her not following the path you wanted. I am not putting the blame on you, but maybe you prevented conditions being ideal/more suited to her putting in the effort..
That being said, all along she has made choices and she is not 100% committed. Maybe no matter what you did/do the timing was/is not right for her.
I urge you to work on getting passed your anger and resentment for your sake. It will poison you and counteract all the good work that you have done.. I understand those feelings and they are legitimate but going forward, even alone you should work through them.
Lastly it must feel good to communicate without filtering your words/thoughts. Maybe your words will filter through her fog and she will really hear you and realise your truth. But do not count on that. She is clinging to her truth, for now. As an outsider I can.see how both of ye could be right in your viewpoint, though for the record that does not justify an A....for me.
Your W plays down the affair. She is still hurt and protecting herself. She is not in s place where she can fully commit right NOW. Maybe neither of you are. Space and time are what both of you need. Don't burn your bridges. Maybe you will choose to never recross that bridge and maybe you will never even pass by that bridge,but just in case be mindful to not burn it!
Best wishes
I have no idea what you hoped to accomplish with that exchange. It doesn't show anything about trying to talk sense into anyone. What it shows is that if you start a conversation with a long-winded statement that talks down to the person you are communicating with, they will not be receptive to hearing what you are saying.
Neither of you seems to want a divorce, but at the moment you don't want to stay married enough to tolerate her continued participation in FF, and she doesn't want to stay married enou to quit FF.
Continuing to engage in these kind of exchanges is doing no good. It makes it less likely she would give up FF to stay with you.
Just leave.
Maybe the separation will lead one or both of you to new insights, but at the very least it will stop exchanges like this.
Maybe this was just something you needed to get off your chest. IDK.
But it was not you expressing you wanted to save your M. You told her you have no love for her, only anger. dropping the FF for a man who says he doesn't even love her certainly isn't going to happen.
your conversation was a desperate attempt at trying to get her to admit all her wrong and show major remorse . I had a whole bunch of them. You know what they got me? More hurt, anger, and heartache.
I had to learn to live with never getting the apology or remorse I felt I deserved. Until I learned to love with that, I was anger and bitter. When I let all of that go, I found peace.
I hope you find peace in your heart soon. For yourself. There is no one who can give you that except yourself.
Also, I've been seeing for years on these boards a recurring theme......
wAS has complaints about M. Too much drinking, no attention , not being present. All very valid complaints lots of the time. It takes a lot to keep a M together..... LBS decides those complaints were valid and makes those changes.
LBS gets upset that those changes aren't immediately accepted with open arms. Because they usually aren't. Then there's the whole " I did what you asked, what's the problem?"
Unfortunately, damage done doesn't tAke a few months to undo. Changes take a long time to be trusted. This process is a rough one. LBS sometimes need to be patient beyond where humanly possible sometimes .
your dialogue had a lot to do with " well, I changed, you didn't see it" you wanted it to be accepted as soon as you were ready to show it.
It just doesn't work that way. Which is why piecing is the hardest part.
Sandi can hit me with a 2x4 if she disagrees, but maybe your actions/reactions and interactions contributed to her not following the path you wanted. I am not putting the blame on you, but maybe you prevented conditions being ideal/more suited to her putting in the effort..
I think you are right in this, I think my inability to detach before we started trying to piece (partially due to how fast piecing seemed to occur), caused me to put extra pressure on her. Not much I can do about that now, but if I was able to do it over, I think I would have gone a lot slower in trying to rebuild and spent more time allowing us to deal with our individual feelings. But with that said, I don’t think anything would have worked without her going NC, I mean she claimed the whole time she didn’t care about him, talk to him or anything, but she went right back to him when we agreed to a Monogamous Separation (or maybe before then, I don’t know)
Don't burn your bridges. Maybe you will choose to never recross that bridge and maybe you will never even pass by that bridge,but just in case be mindful to not burn it!
This is good advice, and definitely worth encouraging, thank you.
I have no idea what you hoped to accomplish with that exchange. It doesn't show anything about trying to talk sense into anyone.
ME:
My personal belief (not saying I'm right just what I think) is that the emotional connection (or possibly mid life crises) was already happening, he was perusing you and you loved the attention, which is why I noticed a difference in you.. Then when I started showing you attention you felt guilty because you saw that I could change and we could work things out, but you wanted the high you got from him and the firefighting... You didn't want to stop the high, so you pushed me away thinking I wouldn't go anywhere and escalated the affair to increase the high.
And I'm not the only one that saw you change, I believe others asked you about what was going on with you
WW - No one has said anything to me about "Changes" they see in me. They've told you because everyone is trying come up with reasons for why we are going through this.
ME: So your BFF didn't ask you if there was someone at the station because u were acting weird
Or your mom didn't tell you she thought you might be going through a mid life crises
All before anyone knew about the affair
This was me trying to get her to see that she changed since she started the affair; she keeps claiming that the only changes are her getting in great shape and feeling good about herself and doesn’t think that she became a crappy mother or friend. Her Mom and BFF both addressed her changes before anyone knew about the A, and I was trying to get her to recognize that if the 2 closes people in her life saw it, then it was likely that she had (but she didn’t address).
What it shows is that if you start a conversation with a long-winded statement that talks down to the person you are communicating with, they will not be receptive to hearing what you are saying.
I was tired of her always saying it was a mistake, saw the article, thought it was a perfect way to say what I had tried but couldn’t find the right words, so I shared it. It was not meant to open a conversation, it was just me sharing what I felt was the perfect explanation as to why it was not a mistake, but so much more.
Neither of you seems to want a divorce, but at the moment you don't want to stay married enough to tolerate her continued participation in FF, and she doesn't want to stay married enou to quit FF.
I went the route of trying to make it work without her going NC, that was a bust and I won’t make that mistake again… NC or bust.
Continuing to engage in these kind of exchanges is doing no good. It makes it less likely she would give up FF to stay with you.
Agreed
Maybe this was just something you needed to get off your chest. IDK.
But it was not you expressing you wanted to save your M. You told her you have no love for her, only anger. dropping the FF for a man who says he doesn't even love her certainly isn't going to happen.
I’m’ past trying to save my M, I am only trying to figure out how to lose the anger. I realize those types of communications don’t help with that.
your conversation was a desperate attempt at trying to get her to admit all her wrong and show major remorse . I had a whole bunch of them. You know what they got me? More hurt, anger, and heartache.
I had to learn to live with never getting the apology or remorse I felt I deserved. Until I learned to love with that, I was anger and bitter. When I let all of that go, I found peace.
Wasn’t so much trying to get her to admit it, and definitely didn’t expect to see major remorse, I was just trying to get her to see it… and Yes, I know that I can’t convince her with logic. I will say though, that she does seem to be getting back to her old self with our S and some other things, but her logical processing of what has occurred and how it has affected soooo many people in her life still seems to be lacking. She still wants to believe that what I did had a big part in why we are getting divorced, even though she never seemed, acted or mentioned being sad/lonely/upset about how I was. In fact, I got a facebook memory yesterday that she sent me last August saying that I was the best husband she could ever imagine, I was her best friend and she will love me forever.. (this was 1 ½ years after she apparently started being unhappy). BTW, anyone have any idea how to block facebook memories?
I hope you find peace in your heart soon. For yourself. There is no one who can give you that except yourself.
I agree with having to let go of the anger, resentment etc. to find peace, that is what I’m working on now. I’m glad you’ve found your way there.
Also, I've been seeing for years on these boards a recurring theme......
wAS has complaints about M. Too much drinking, no attention , not being present. All very valid complaints lots of the time. It takes a lot to keep a M together..... LBS decides those complaints were valid and makes those changes.
LBS gets upset that those changes aren't immediately accepted with open arms. Because they usually aren't. Then there's the whole " I did what you asked, what's the problem?"
Unfortunately, damage done doesn't tAke a few months to undo. Changes take a long time to be trusted. This process is a rough one. LBS sometimes need to be patient beyond where humanly possible sometimes.
your dialogue had a lot to do with " well, I changed, you didn't see it" you wanted it to be accepted as soon as you were ready to show it.
She saw the changes I made immediately, she has told me so, of course with the standard but I didn’t believe they were for real or going to last.
I get that, no problem, gonna take time to prove I’ve changed. BUT, she told me and never changed her story that she started the AFFAIR after I made the changes, so when she turned it around and said that she had the affair because she wasn’t getting any affection from me I had to call her out. We all know how it works, you get the ILYBNILWY speech and immediately go the exact opposite way and push them away with all the attention you want to shower on them, but don’t tell me you weren’t getting the attention when you started the affair.
btw, I've been doing really well for the last few days, even the day we had that text communication I was doing fine. I find myself looking more and more forward to moving to the country and looking forward to what I imagine my life will be.
also, just wanted to share that although we are still in the same house, we barely see each other, some days I don't see her at all and other days I see her at most 30 mins in a day (generally when one of us is coming or going from the house). But just in case, I have now moved almost all of my stuff, except for furniture that needs to stay for showing the house and clothes that I wear frequently, so I am able to completely move out of the house easily within a few hours if needed.
I just want to make sure that this is the path you want to go down before I sign the agreement, by path I mean Divorce. It would take a lot from each of us to make us work, and a long time to get there, but I am willing to do whatever I can to save our marriage and be happy together.
???? I am a little confused when you say you don't want to save the M.
I can imagine she might be a little confused when you say you have no love for her, only anger, yet at the same time you said the above.
Look, I feel for you. It's crappy. You say you don't want her to admit she was wrong, you want her to see what she's done. You want her to feel bad. It's all semantics. you want to get her to see the light, but you do not hold that power. It's all up to her, and from experience, trying to get them to see that makes them blame you more. It's not your job to do.
I know you want to be able to say you did everything you could. But I think you just need to leave well enough alone now and not try to get her to see the light. It causes you anger and frustration. let her go. If she figures it out, she will do it in her own time. And yeah, maybe it will be too late then, but you can't change the process.
I think I said I'm past trying to save the M... I meant that I'm not actively trying to save my marriage, and I don't sit around trying to figure out how I might be able to. Now if she came to me and said I quit the fire department, I can't believe what I've done to our family and I'm willing to do whatever needs to be done to be happily M to you, then I would do whatever I could/needed to save the M, but I'm past thinking that might ever happen.
What I focus on now is what I need to do in ending the marriage, to prepare myself for post D life..
What I focus on now is what I need to do in ending the marriage, to prepare myself for post D life...
Coconut,
I've got about two weeks of married life to go, and after that, I'm hoping for a nice long period of peace and tranquility with my sons. I already feel the stress melting away.
But I still haven't figured out what I want to do with the white columns on my front porch. Faux marble? Fantasy marble? That's driving me nuts for sure.
Hey Coconut,
I have been following along your thread for sometime, just wasn't in a place to post because of some IRL challenges such as my mother having an heart attack which required surgery and recently my 88-year old grandmother fell that entailed a visit to the ER and stitching her up.
Have been away from my own home for 10 days because of mom and Grandma.
When things get a bit more settled in the next two weeks, I will be back and post a bit more regularly.
My thoughts are still with you.....
((((Coconut))))
How are you today by the way?
Best wishes Wonka. Hope your mother and grandmother recover well and quickly.You are a great asset to this board but for now look after you and your kin.
Best wishes Wonka.
Hope your mother and grandmother recover well and quickly.
You are a great asset to this board but for now look after you and your kin.
I totally agree.
Please take care of them!
(((WONKA))), I'm so sorry to hear about your family, praying for a full and quick recovery.
Overall I have been doing pretty good, but I still am struggling with my anger, and my reaction to triggers. I'm not sure why, but I decided to drink last night, and I drank pretty heavy. It was fine until I saw a trigger, and being drunk and angry was not a good combo. I have never been a mean drunk, but I was last night and can't say enough how ashamed I am. I haven't been drinking much, but I've decided that I will not drink again until I have found peace, because I don't want to put myself or my WW through that again.
I'm going to IC to help with the anger, but it's going to take time. what's messed up is that earlier in the day, I really thought I was getting closer to a place of forgiveness, but obviously not so if triggers so easily put me back in a bad place.
Drinking happens. I know what you mean though. As long as you realize what you gotta do about it. And the anger...I get it for sure.
Forgiveness and triggers are two different things in my opinion
You can forgive her, but you are still going to have things that trigger you for a long long time
And yes, drinking certainly does not help. I remember some of the ugliest fights my W and I had when we reconciled was when I was or we both were drinking
A trigger would happen and boom, game one
It's taken me 3 years to really get over my W's infidelity.
I remember when I use to think I was over it and then boom, a trigger
It's going to take time. Don't beat yourself up over it
Stay the course and keep working on you
Things have been going better, I've really committed to stop being angry, it's not her fault (or responsibility) for how I feel, I need to own that responsibility and stop blaming her. I don't think I'll ever understand why she has done everything she's done, but I want to forgive.
In no means am I trying to buddy up with her, but I made her a cup of coffee this morning, and for the first time in a month we sat in the same room and conversed (nothing serious, just chit chat) and my son looked very confused lol... Anyway, when son took off, I did give her a heart felt apology for the other night when I was drunk and that I didn't like the me that I saw that night (there was no physical but I did throw her phone in an attempt to break it and was very mean verbally and by text). I think back through my life and I don't remember ever really being angry at anyone, I mean really angry, sure I haven liked things people did and have had my fair share of fights, but I've never really had to learn how to deal with anger before. But never too late to learn.
Coconut, the forgiveness may not be a one time thing and then it's over. Every time you have a trigger, you will silently have to forgive her again. You won't have to tell her, but tell yourself that you forgive her.
It seems like it would be a very tall order for the LBS, doesn't? We have had post-DBers who would come back to tell the ending of their journey. It always seems so encouraging to those here who are struggling. Some couples make it, and some don't. However, those LBS's who have been able to forgive and adjust to their new lives.......speak with peace.
I'm getting pretty frustrated with her, it's been a month and a half since she agreed that we need to sell the house, and all she's done so far is sign the listing agreement with the realtor. The realtor is a friend of hers so I told her that is her baby and she needs to set up the times to get pictures done and provide the information for the listing.
So after a month and a half of nothing I am getting really pissed because I'm ready to move on, but I think I handled myself pretty well. I just told her that I was concerned about the time it's taking to get the house listed, and that she needs to understand that I've applied for a lot of jobs out of state, and when I get offered a position, I'm taking it. That will mean that I will not be able to continue to pay for half the house..
I'm not sure if she has some ulterior motive, like thinking I'll just stay and pay half the mortgage for however long it takes to sell, but hopefully she gets the message, because I'll let the house go into foreclosure before I allow her to trap me by using the house.
I still mourn what could have been, and I'm not happy my M is ending, but at least I know that coconut will be ok, I'm excited about the adventures that lie ahead, albeit sad that i'll be going on the adventure alone.
Just throwing this out there: Could she be trying to get you to stay, and work on things?
You "told her that [selling the house] is her baby"? And now you're unhappy that she hasn't done the work for the thing you want and she doesn't?
When I assign another adult a task that matters more to me than it does to them, it rarely goes well.
I've come to recognize it as a sign of me trying to control someone else.
RSG, it's a nice thought, but just before I signed the listing agreement I threw out the question if she really wanted to go that route, selling the house is the first step of D and she didn't even blink. It's more an issue of I have always taken care of everything, and She wants me to do this too, but I'm no longer the Man of the house, just the man of me and My S.
Rose, I told her if we use her friend as the realtor then it's her baby, or we could use a neutral realtor and I would be involved... She chose this route. I'm not trying to control her, I'm just letting her know what's going to happen if she doesn't get busy, and she's still just sitting on her Azz.
All that needs to happen is for her to clean the house so her friend can come over and take pictures. She had a 4 day weekend, no cleaning. She came home from work yesterday and watched TV for 3 hours before heading out, no cleaning. She's stalling, I don't know why but I haven't said a word since making it clear that I won't be here too much longer to help out.
Oh, on a side note after asking my cousin not to post stuff about W on FB after she complained to me, I had gone back to him and apologized for asking him that, I can't control him and he can do whatever he wants (that was about 6 weeks ago)...
Yesterday he posted something and I asked him if he would stop the postings for me, I told him I'm trying to lose the anger and his posts sometimes trigger me, that I didn't want to unfollow him, which is why I was asking. He agreed to do it for me as long as it was me asking and not WW complaining. Then about 4 hrs later he text me to say WW just sent him a very long text trying to explain herself and telling him she doesn't like his texts.. He asked me if I wanted to read it...
Are you ready for the new coconut, I said "no", it would probably just make me angry.. Truth be told, I really want to see what she had to say, but I'm controlling myself (pat on back).. He said no worries, he just asked her if she would be willing to meet.
Oh well, just threw it out there!
Good for you for letting her know that, if she chose that option re realtor then she needs to do the work.
Nice to hear you're working on those triggers. It's hard for me, I can imagine it's harder for you. Where are you looking at restarting things?
Where are you looking at restarting things?
I'm looking for anyplace near the smoky mountains.. Areas that I'm applying for positions are in Chattanooga, TN / Knoxville, TN / Greeneville, SC / Asheville, NC..
I've always wanted to live in the country, get into hiking / camping, off-roading, hunting, etc.. When I met my W, I was actively looking for a job so I could go, then after meeting her we weren't able to move due to my sons biological father so we had always planned on moving once he went to college. I'll just be doing it a year and a half earlier now.
Wow, what a difference a few days can make. So after my last blow up with my W, I really decided I needed/wanted to get past my anger. I always felt stressed, I was uncomfortable being in the same room as her, and the emotional rollercoaster of every little trigger was exhausting.
I really made a conscious decision to get over myself, to accept where I am and how I got here, and that I had to own my happiness and not let it be hinged to the actions of others.
I started by making her a cup of coffee (my daily post BD AOS)apologized to her, letting her know that I was ashamed of myself for how I acted, that regardless of her actions she didn't deserve to be treated like that, and really offered her a heart felt apology. I then told her I didn't want to harbor this anger towards her anymore, that I needed to learn to get along with her (well enough to be in the same room) for the sake of future with S.
Then I started saying hello, goodbye and making every attempt to be civil, including her in conversations with S when she was around, and just really trying to be neighborly.
About two days ago, W asks me if I am going to sons Open House at school, I told her that I don't think I'm going to go (and she kinda huffed out of frustration), I then followed up with unless son is going (he usually doesn't) and wants me to go. I told her that since I wouldn't be living with son, I don't really need the info that is provided during the open house.
Then yesterday, W says (in front of son) that her and son are going to get frozen yogurt and I'm welcome to go. I told her that I didn't think that was a good idea (I'm not interested in family time) but I appreciated her asking.
Now my W's complaints about me where that I wasn't involved with family activities, and I was starting to get the sense that me declining these offers gave her the impression that nothing has changed with me. So this morning I addressed it with her, I told her that while I appreciated her inviting me to these activities, I signed up to be her husband, the Man of the house. Since I am no longer in that position, I am not interested in being friends with her and playing family, I told her my interest lies in being a father and continuing to find myself and moving on.
I let her know that I felt like her asking me to go get yogurt in front of son put me in an awkward position, because while I don't want to play family, I don't want my son thinking I would rather watch TV than go get yogurt with him. I told her that if it a special occasion and she thinks I may want to go, to ask me privately so we can discuss.
And the pursuit and withdrawal game continues:) Lol
The more you withdraw she is going to pursue.
That's why I think it's imperative not to make any major decisions so soon
Because things have a way of changing. As you just noted just in a matter of a few days no less:)
I'm going to go back to what I told you weeks ago buddy. I would just continue to work on you and he man you want to become. There is no reason to rush to a new job and sell the house right away. Just my opinion.
I let her know that I felt like her asking me to go get yogurt in front of son put me in an awkward position, because while I don't want to play family, I don't want my son thinking I would rather watch TV than go get yogurt with him. I told her that if it a special occasion and she thinks I may want to go, to ask me privately so we can discuss.
What was her response to this?
I let her know that I felt like her asking me to go get yogurt in front of son put me in an awkward position, because while I don't want to play family, I don't want my son thinking I would rather watch TV than go get yogurt with him. I told her that if it a special occasion and she thinks I may want to go, to ask me privately so we can discuss.
What was her response to this?
She only said OK, no other response from her at all.
cbtdad,
I don't think I want to play the wait and see. I'm really wanting (can't really say ready) to move on with life, if things change in the future, we could always reconnect later if it's in the cards. I'm really really excited about moving, and while I know I will still be excited in a year or two, I dread the thought of waiting.
it's often said it doesn't seem like I want to get divorced, and I would agree that I don't, but in many ways, I do feel as though I would be happier if I do. I'm not saying I couldn't be happy if I stay with my W, but I am not sure that I would be any less happy (after getting past the mourning of my M) on my own.
Again I'll say that if my W did everything she could to save our M, I would jump on board and do whatever I could to make it work, I just don't want to wait and see if she's going to do that. I don't think she is, she doesn't show any remorse or embarrassment about what she did, she doesn't think twice about bragging about her FF accomplishments and accepting accolades for them (it seems that if I had an A at the station, it would make me feel guilty if someone said something like I am such a great role model), so I don't think that we will ever find median ground to meet on.
Coconut,
I have been following along your thread. Sorry to have been MIA for some time.
To this day, I STILL do think that you and W have a chance of successfully reconciling the M. The real problem is you are letting your anger and festering resentment get in the way which trips you up every.single.time.
I cannot help, but wonder if you are running away from your own emotions by applying to those states. A change of scenery will be the external band-aid while the same issues remain on the inside unresolved. Why? I do not think you attend IC regularly which is probably why you are having those up and down...and sideways emotions.
And your son?
To this day, I remain in close contact with my stepmother on a weekly basis even if my parents divorced when I was aged 11. Let me ask you: what kind of relationship will there be with your son if you moved away?
Food for thought.
Coconut,
I have been following along your thread. Sorry to have been MIA for some time.
To this day, I STILL do think that you and W have a chance of successfully reconciling the M. The real problem is you are letting your anger and festering resentment get in the way which trips you up every.single.time.
I cannot help, but wonder if you are running away from your own emotions by applying to those states. A change of scenery will be the external band-aid while the same issues remain on the inside unresolved. Why? I do not think you attend IC regularly which is probably why you are having those up and down...and sideways emotions.
And your son?
To this day, I remain in close contact with my stepmother on a weekly basis even if my parents divorced when I was aged 11. Let me ask you: what kind of relationship will there be with your son if you moved away?
Food for thought.
DITTO. On ALL points!
To this day, I STILL do think that you and W have a chance of successfully reconciling the M. The real problem is you are letting your anger and festering resentment get in the way which trips you up every.single.time.
I realize my anger is a real problem; I have made leaps and bounds in the last week in controlling my reaction to triggers. For example, I saw a comment on a picture of my Son and her, at her FF graduation on FB, and someone commented that our son would be lucky to find a wife like his mother, she is such an inspiration and wonderful person, and of course my W reply with all kinds of appreciation and hearts at the comment. After reading it, I processed the irony, the fact that I thought my W should be disgusted with the thought of my S finding someone like her, and then go about my day. All in all, it affected me for about 1 minute.
I think the real problem is her inability to see happiness in her life worth leaving the fire department for, and I’m not willing to play that game anymore.
I cannot help, but wonder if you are running away from your own emotions by applying to those states. A change of scenery will be the external band-aid while the same issues remain on the inside unresolved. Why? I do not think you attend IC regularly which is probably why you are having those up and down...and sideways emotions.
I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out my desire to move to the country, it’s not a decision I made lightly. I can say that I feel like I’ve wasted the last 8 years of my life with W, I gave up my desire to move to the country back then when I met her, I gave up the idea of having kids during my 30’s (because she wasn’t able to have more) and now feel that I am too old to have kids of my own, and I don’t want to wait to move and get started with the life I dreamed of 9 years ago before I met her.
I am looking forward to getting into hiking/camping (like weekend trips on the Appalachian trail), I want to get an off road vehicle and get into off-roading, I want to live in a place where everyone isn’t always in a rush and actually takes the time to say hi to people they run into. Moving to the country isn’t new concept to me, It’s something that I’ve wanted for a long time, so I know it’s what I want to do. My struggle has simply been should I go now or should I delay it a bit. But I always come back to I don’t want to wait to live my life, I don’t want to accidently meet someone new down here and be tied down in FL again, I haven’t enjoyed my job for a few years now so I wouldn’t mind getting away from there. Obviously the biggest drawbacks to me going are my son (I’ll address below) and the rest of my family. I have a lot of family here, and we are all very close and get together often. My family will be very hard to leave, but they all support my move, they all know that I’ve wanted to do it for years and believe that I will flourish if I go and follow my dreams.
PS- I go to IC every week or two.
And your son?
To this day, I remain in close contact with my stepmother on a weekly basis even if my parents divorced when I was aged 11. Let me ask you: what kind of relationship will there be with your son if you moved away?
Food for thought.
My son will be 17 in 2 months, he will be leaving for college in a year and a ½, he will obviously be living with his mother and spends every other weekend at his biological fathers house. What kind of relationship will I have with my son even if I lived 10 minutes away. As a 17 year old, he is much more interested in hanging out with his friends than his dad, he’s starting to date girls on the regular, he is not going to be interested in coming to dads house (he considers me dad) for a couple of hours after school and definitely not going to spend the weekend at my house very often (he’s only with his mom every other weekend). If my son was younger, I wouldn’t even consider leaving, but my relationship with him is going to change because I won’t be living with him anymore, I do not believe there will be a whole lot of difference in our relationship based on how far away I live, because I am pretty sure most of our communication will be done by text or phone anyway.
Sure I won’t be able to go to every one of his wrestling matches, and I won’t be able to just pick him up to go out to dinner, but I don’t think our father relationship is going to change because I moved away. And if it does, then it would have anyway when he moves away to college next year.
What you think you want, your emotions and thoughts through this emotional process, your fantasy of how you think your life will be, and the pursuit of personal happiness are not good guides.
What do your values and beliefs say about preserving a marriage and a family?
You speak with the selfishness and impatience of a walk away spouse, and I'm not admiring your detachment or emotional healing (which is a front over some wounds you haven't even begun to feel yet).
After what I've been through and seen on these forums I can't sit quietly and support this. It is your life to live, but this is literally my forum to speak my voice and cast my vote for the society I want to live in.
Zeus,
You can speak your opinion, I appreciate the thoughts. I don't see anything in my W that shows that she has or will have any interest in saving our M. She has stated that she is not willing to "under the microscope", is not willing to be transparent and is not willing to do what it takes to go no contact.
I set a very clear boundary with her, she very clearly broke those boundaries over and over, and I have accepted that we are getting a D because of her un willingness to do what it would take to make our M work.
I'm not sure how that makes me a walk away spouse. Is it because I'm not willing to live in the same house with her? or is it simply because I'm moving 2 hour flight or 11 hour drive away?
ps - I do not believe that she is currently with OM, I'm sure they talk at the station, she claims they don't talk via electronic communication (but I have no way of knowing and don't care). She doesn't seem to be in the fog anymore, she is back to normal with our son, and seems to be, for the most part, back to normal with everyone else, except for the fact that she still acts like a teenager with her selfies and being all consumed by her looks and others admiration of her looks.
So I don't believe its a matter of waiting for her to come out of the fog, I believe she is out.
If WW refuses to end an A you have no choice but to stick to your boundaries, detach, and move forward with your life.
Where I differ is that I wouldn't take any steps at this time that would burn bridges or make the possibility of R greater, and my steps would still be guided with the idea in mind of giving the chance for things to turn around.
It's a balance. The porridge of being a plan B, pursuing, remaining attached, and being diminished by not voicing and enforcing your personal boundaries is too hot. The porridge of writing off the marriage, pursuing fantasy, following emotions and rationalizations, impatiently trying to get out of limbo, that to me is too cold. DBing is just right as you can GAL, 180, detach, build a new life and all...but in a way that is designed to allow her to return to you if she wishes and to have room for her if she does.
I guess it's your timelines and how quickly you're moving that worried me along with the emotions and thoughts that are driving you. At some point you do emotionally move on and take the steps you're taking now, personally I would want to look back and know I stood by through my marital crisis until it was clear how it was going to play out before I closed that chapter. Your show though, and I appreciate the respectful discussion.
Your porridge analogy makes sense, and I think it is dead on in terms of best case scenarios. Problem is, I'm not best case scenario. I've been thinking over what you said about me being a WAS, and I think I do have a bit of that mindset.
This whole thing started 6 months ago, in that time I have never been approached for a R discussion, even when we were "piecing", only once has she said anything to show any type of emotion about the sitch without my prompting, and that was an out of the blue text saying "I miss my best friend". She hasn't lost any sleep over this, has tried to justify what she did and tried to convince me (recently) I over reacted to her A..
I honestly completely feel like she has zero feelings towards me, good or bad, and that the only person W is concerned about is W... So yeah, I don't really weigh reconciling with her into what I feel would be best for me moving forward...
I am working on forgiveness, I've supported her recent actions towards reconciling with my family (by not interfering or making negative comments to them, and making it clear to them that their R with her is theirs, not mine). I'm trying to control my reactions to triggers, but I'm not making any effort to rebuild with her. Quite frankly, I don't feel like she deserves me.
Hey coco, long time no chat.
Caught up on your last few threads. My XWW is still very much like yours, altho i'm a new person. I've come up with a scale which might help you and alot of people on this forum...
Every person has 3 very bad traits
SELFISHNESS
STUBBORNNESS
REBELLIOUSNESS
Now, on a scale of 1-10 for each, you identify what the person is really like, their real personality. So, my XWW would get a 9/10 for selfish, a 10/10 for stubborn and a 9/10 for rebellious.
This would give her a score of 28/30. Everyone on this forum will find that their (in)significant other will hit a mark around this score.
If you rate yourself, as the LBS, you will probably hit around 15 out of 30.
So what do you do about their high score, well, you run! Never stay with anyone that does not care about you, themselves, or their kids. Just run!
Hey DDJ,
Good to see you again, I don't know if I agree with your scale for the simple fact that the rating itself can be skewed. I know that on some days I would rate much lower and on other days I would wonder if I could rate a 12 or 13... i.e. - my rating would vary with how I was feeling that day.
But just for kicks, I would rate her very high in the first two, but not so high on the rebelliousness, so she would probably end up at 24 or 25.
So, started a R conversation yesterday, it's been almost two months since the last one, and I had some things I wanted to get off my chest.
Basically I wanted to have the talk because while at my nieces B-day party, I walked into the dining room where a bunch of family members were sitting around and talking, and I heard someone say "That's the thing, there seems to be different stories", and then they all shut up when they saw me. I immediately told them that I sat everyone down together and told them what was going on so that there wouldn't be the need for whispers and wondering who knows what, and they didn't need to feel like they needed to gossip about it, they are more than welcome to talk about it out in the open.
Couple of confusion points came out (since my WW has started to meet with some of them individually), the two main confusion points were if she was having an A when I decided I was done, and if she was still willing to reconcile.
As for the A, my WW was texting OM and said "I wanted to let you know why I was upset last night", "I want to be honest with you", "I don't like to keep secrets", and "She really wants to meet you". I don't know what the reply texts were. Anyway, I consider that type of conversation with OM a continuation of the A, my WW sees as it talking with a friend, so she tells people there was no A going on and of course I tell them there was.
I addressed this difference of views with my WW, and she said that she sees him as a friend and that she is not romantically or otherwise involved. She also said that when she had to stop talking to him after I found out, she felt like she lost a "Friend". I told her that if I was in her shoes and someone else was involved with the destruction of my Family's life, I would not want to be friends with that person, they would disgust me for being a person involved in doing that. I stated that it's not like you weren't at fault too, but he was a predator who saw you vulnerable, saw an opportunity to have non-committed sex with a hot woman and took advantage of that opportunity. I told her that she once said to me that it wasn't like he was sitting at home pining for her, and I said that's because he has no emotional involvement, for him it's just conquering the pray and having physical interactions.
I then addressed the implying to people that she would still be willing to reconcile, that she wants to try a physical S and let things cool down. I asked her about that, and said that if you have any interest in reconciling that it is news to me, and she said that she wanted that in the past but I said if I leave the house I'm not coming back (I said this near the beginning of all this, before we started piecing). She confirmed that it is not something she wants now, but mentioned wanting it in the past. Anyway, I told her that implying that she is open to reconciliation when she is not makes it look like I'm walking away from the M when that isn't true, and she needs to quite implying things that aren't true to my family. I support her trying to repair those R, but not by laying a foundation of lies to build upon.
Anyway, after her comment of feeling like she lost a friend (referring to OM, who she only knew for 6 weeks before I found out), I wonder if my WW is in fact still in the fog, or if she will just continue to justify her interactions with him as a friend so she doesn't need to face the fact the "actual need" to go NC for the M to survive.
I addressed this difference of views with my WW, and she said that she sees him as a friend and that she is not romantically or otherwise involved. She also said that when she had to stop talking to him after I found out, she felt like she lost a "Friend". I told her that if I was in her shoes and someone else was involved with the destruction of my Family's life, I would not want to be friends with that person, they would disgust me for being a person involved in doing that. I stated that it's not like you weren't at fault too, but he was a predator...
Coconut,
My wife is very similar; her EA is a "friendship." The funny thing is, she's willing to end her marriage over the friendship. She doesn't seem to understand why having a friend, that she puts ahead of her own husband, would create marital issues. It's very strange. I wish I could offer some advice, but I'm still baffled by the whole ordeal.
Hey boys, so here's the thing. Your wives don't care, doodler gets it. Coco, you need to get it too.
She just wants to keep you hooked, disregard them hooks, and the lies she tells others.
Mine sent me a pic from our trip to italy last year, saying how she missed us and can't believe that we are where we are. And how she was crying about what was lost. I replied back... You should have cried those nights that you left me and never came home, when you sneaked away to chat to another man.
Oh, and then she left at 6pm last night and never came home yet, and it's 8am. IT ONLY HURTS WHEN I LAUGH.
Coconut: Was it on your thread where I read how not to give your wife permission to date? I saw it once and I can't find it. Sorry for hijacking your thread.
Bigy, it took me a minute to remember who I posted that to, but here's a link to the page.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...750#Post2697750
Haven't had much to post, W and I barely speak, generally in different rooms or not home at the same time. When we are in the same room, it's really awkward, the anger is almost gone but it's really awkward. I mentioned that to my ic, because I feel like I want to be somewhat friendly to her, but it's so awkward that I find it hard to genuinely be friendly so I opt to just avoid. My ic suggested that I'm living a lie, that I live in a house with my legal wife, but there is no actual MR, so I'm probably having a hard time figuring out the best way to deal with a life that's not real.
So, funny thing just happened. We have our first couple of showings tomorrow, so by coincidence someone left a note on our front door offering house cleaning services. WW asks if she should call and get house cleaning before the showings, but she had FF activities today so she couldn't be here when she came, I say no prob, I got no plans...
Well, the house cleaner shows up with the previous owner of the house, turns out they live together at a neighbors house. When we bought the house, we bought it from a couple divorcing after 30 yrs of M, the W had already moved out and the H was still living here. After the closing, the H moved across the street to be roommates with the neighbor. Well, when they came over his live in girlfriend mentioned that she's cleaned the house before, so she doesn't need to look around to price it... Hmm, his live in girlfriend has cleaned house before he sold it? I'm thinking that he may have been a bit unfaithful with the housekeeper, thus the D and us moving in...
Me and W were completely happy before moving in this house, I'm now wondering if this house is cursed... Beware those who enter, immense pain will befall you and D will soon follow.. Hah
Sitting here a bit sadly... House went live on MLS and realtor got so many calls, there are now showings all day tomorrow, I've always felt the house would sell quickly but the reality is that as bad as I want to get out from under it it kills me to lose the dreams of the future I had when we bought it 3 years ago. It's a 30 year old house, and needs some work, so it still may take some time to find someone willing to put a little work into it, but overall it's a great house on a huge lot and a optimal location. We are asking 365k, but most of the houses in our neighborhood go for 500 to over 2 million, it's the coveted cheapest house in the most expensive neighborhood.
On top of that I saw that I had a voicemail from yesterday, it was from one of the jobs I applied for out of state looking to set up an interview next week... Just more realization that this is really happening.
I'm ok with losing my W, I don't like who she's become and I don't know if she could change enough for me to want her back, but the thought of not living with my son is tearing me up. His biological father came to pick him up today while I was straightening up the garage, he came in the garage to give me a hug on his way out, that is not something he does often (maybe 5 times in the last 5 years), so it made me a teary when he left.
I will be alright, the pain and hurt I feel now is a healthy amount, not the total devastation I was going through when all of this started, but it is still sadness.
Going back to the mountains next month
. My 8yr anniversary is coming up on 10/17, so decided I was going to do something I love and decided to head back up to the mountains. Asked family if anyone felt like joining, so I booked a place on vacation rentals by owner and will be spending a week. Fall colors should be in full swing, looking forward to it as always
October is a very pretty month. I love that time of year. Glad you are making plans to get out. Hope you enjoy it.
Let us know about the job interview. Is it in Tennessee?
Hi Sandi2,
My mother and brother have confirmed for the trip, and my in laws are still in their place up there so we may go see them one day. Being from FL all my life, I've only seen the fall colors once, and that was early in the season so not too much color, hopefully NC gets some cold air before we go.
Yes, the job that I will be doing a phone interview for is in TN, place called Oak Ridge (just west of Knoxville), it'll be a pay cut but the cost of living is less and once I'm in the company I can immediately apply for higher paying positions (they open those to company employees only), and my experience will give me a good shot at those.
First day of showings brought first offer for the house, 15k less than asking price, now to consider counter offering or to accept but not be willing to contribute to anything found in inspection... Decisions decisions.
Hi Sandi2,
My mother and brother have confirmed for the trip, and my in laws are still in their place up there so we may go see them one day. Being from FL all my life, I've only seen the fall colors once, and that was early in the season so not too much color, hopefully NC gets some cold air before we go.
Yes, the job that I will be doing a phone interview for is in TN, place called Oak Ridge (just west of Knoxville), it'll be a pay cut but the cost of living is less and once I'm in the company I can immediately apply for higher paying positions (they open those to company employees only), and my experience will give me a good shot at those.
Cool, it's amazing up there!! Really sorry to hear about your sadness about moving. All I can tell you is enjoy every moment, which I know you are. The good thing, as you've said, is he's on his way to college soon so it's not like you're leaving a little kid.
Good luck with the interview!!
For all you doubters, thinking coco could never get over himself and find peace within himself and lose the anger, I have a couple of examples of my new found peace to share.
Saturday I woke up early, at like 6 am, and WW gets up and in shower at like 7, unusual since she usually sleeps till like 11, then on the way out says I have some color guard FF activities, bye... Don't think much of it, go about my day... That night, Went out to watch the UFC fight, got home at 1:00am and WW still not home. Was a bit concerned for her safety, so text asking if everything ok? No response, so I go to bed. Sun morning, still not home, so at 9am, I text "You still alive?"... About an hour and a half later she says sry, had FF color guard event in keys, stayed with female FF since she was down too.. Truth is, I really didn't care what she was doing, I was only concerned for her safety as it would seriously affect my S, but I didn't care for me. I was kinda shocked that she wouldn't think to text that she wouldn't be home since it is unusual thing for her to do.
Today, I checked OM W Facebook page, and saw that she had video of the color guard activity in the Keys. turns out OM is on the color guard, which seems to be only like 5 people. Well, W was talking about joining the color guard while we were supposed to be "piecing"... Just goes to show that she never took piecing seriously.. But the part that matters is that I don't care... Sure I recognize the irony, am sad that she doesn't/didn't recognize how wrong that was, but no anger, coco is fine
Cnut,
Glad to hear you are getting the anger under control. I know it's hard to deal with.
I am glad to see you are focusing on you and what you can control.
The places that you are looking are beautiful. My FIL lives in Asheville. We go up from Atlanta quite a bit
The urge to take care of things for my WW is strong... We haven't got the written offer yet, but realtor told us about a counter offer to our counter offer for the house, and we are going to accept it once it comes in.
So I went in to WW's office (we work together) to let her know that I just had my interview, I think they are going to offer me the job, and they indicated they wanted to the person to start in 3 weeks.. I let her know because that would mean I would be leaving town in 2 weeks, and would have to fly back down for the closing. When I went into her office, she was pulling her credit score which took a hit the month of BD (I wasn't in a bill paying mood when I found out) and she didn't take the initiative to make sure her stuff was paid.
Anyway, I asked if she was planning on buying something as soon as we sell, and she said she wants to buy a townhouse. I advised her that unless we are divorced by then, I don't know that I am willing to sign off on that since I would then be responsible for half that debt. I'm going to talk to my lawyer, but I believe me signing off on her buying a place would be a bad idea for me.
I think it's hitting her a little, just how real this $h!t is... I hope one day she can look at this whole situation and shake her head in disbelief that she did all this for something she considers a "friendship".
I'm a bit anxious, selling the house, possibly changing jobs and moving in a few weeks, it's a lot of changes in a short amount of time. But I am excited, I am not angry, I am ready to go off into the big bad world and find myself again.
Sadness prevails... Had another Facebook memory pop up, where she randomly posted som you're the best husband ever thing... I really wish I could figure out how to stop those, but anyway, I shared this one simply captioning "we did have some good times"..
Then just now walking through my house and my dogs following me around, realizing that will never happen again soon, tears are flowing.. Funny cause I don't feel overly sad, just sentimental, if that makes sense...
Life's changing, and your boy coconut is trying to change with it
Ugh...I hate the Facebook memories!!!!! I think you can change it in your settings. And its ok to have those sentimental feelings, you are human, you built a life with you and your family there! Hang in there!
Thanks hawker, I appreciate the words of support. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way to change settings, I have looked extensively.. I even went and untangled me from years of posts from her.
Sandi2, Wonka, blu and other longtime supporters, I could really use some words of encouragement or 2x4s, I'm just looking to hear from y'all right now
Hang in there. Transitions make me sentimental under the best of circumstances.
Coconut! So sorry to hear this. I know it's hard, just let the feelings flow through you. Enjoy your dogs, try to have a nice supper with your son. Make the most of your last days! You've got this.
Thx ya'll, just knowing that we are gonna sign the contract to sell the house this morning, and that will be that, brought on a lot of emotion. It appears it did for W as well, I woke up to see this text:
"It makes me really sad that you have decided to leave the state. I realize that you have to do what you feel is best for you but Son is going to be so sad & i just can't believe that you don't want to be in his everyday life anymore.
I know you are anxious to start your new life but I wasn't in a hurry to rush the divorce. I guess I still had some hope that we may be able to find our way back to each other at some point. Sorry to dump all this on you. It's just really sad. "
I gotta be honest, it's a message that I wanted so bad for so long, but it doesn't mean much to me now. I'm really in a good place, and it kinda irritates me that she could keep doing everything she's been doing and then admitting that she wants to keep me as her backup plan. I don't even know how to respond to that, or if I even want to. If I was giving DB advice to myself, I would probably say:
"A D isn't want I want, but it just isn't that easy anymore, a lot has happened in the last few months and actions haven't shown any indication to me that fixing us is what you really want. It pains me not to be part of sons daily life, but selling the house takes me out of that role regardless of where I live, even if I lived locally I would only be able to be with him once or twice every two weeks."
Thoughts?
Seems like too much to me. I'd go with:
"Transitions like this can be hard on everyone at times. With time I know we will all be in a better place."
I think she'd have to be much more clear and open than that before you give her the time of day with an emotional response. All she is doing is blaming, judging, and temp checking. Don't even break your stride.
I completely agree with Zeus on this
To me this is her starting to see the results of her actions.
It seems like a complete temp check and wanting to make sure she has safety net
I would respond just like Zeus said
If she wants to make it work she is gonna need to do the heavy lifting right now
Coconut,
I agree with Zeus to a point about W doing some temp checking and blame shifting. Yet on the other hand I still think you that you could save your M. To me, I strongly believe that DBers should give the process at least one year to try and save the M before throwing in the towel.
I would add a bit to Zeus recommended response a bit more and come from a place of authencity:
"Transitions like this can be hard on everyone at times. With time I know we will all be in a better place."
Here's an expanded version:
Thanks for sharing. I am too sad about all of this. To be clear, it takes TWO people to make a marriage work. I do not think that we are able to meet our own needs in the marriage--especially for me to feel emotionally safe with you. Transitions like this can be hard on everyone at times. With time I know we will all be in a better place.
This puts the ball squarely in her court on whether to step up, taking full responsibility, and being genuinely remorseful for her choices to engage with OM.
That's a great response, Wonka. Did you mean to say, though, that he too is sad about all of this, or that he is too sad about it. Seems like the former is more DB, while the latter is a little more aggressive/passive aggressive? Trying to learn -- thanks!
Coconut -- I can't imagine (well, I can, but it is painful) the emotions you must be feeling letting your home go. Hang in there!