my W and i have been separated since April. I received the I love you but I'm not in love with you, I'm not sure i want to be married, I need time & space, and I think I'm attracted to someone else. ouch! they've pretty much all came in that order, a few days apart. My W began having an emotional affair with a man in another country, (nursing school trip) he kissed her, I thought no big deal, a few days later she began telling me all those common things. She asked me to move out. I obliged, the texting and constantly on the phone with another man made it easier to move out. Still she insisted she doesn't want to rush into divorce, and insists she needs to figure out what she wants.
We had some problems prior to the EA, diff parenting styles (I have a step daughter) I tend to get defensive, what I say goes, controlling in stupid stuff like what clothes my SD wears, what we will have for breakfast (I know, typing it out makes me sound pretty ridiculous) and picking small fights with my W & SD. All of which I have stopped doing by the way.
fast fwd, I got this book, read it. Took some time away stopped chasing, begging blah blah, which I never did too much of. I went on vacation, ALONE because she canceled...so I returned from a 12 day vacation from Europe, where we had very little to no contact. (our two year wedding anniversary came and went while in Europe, I received a "hope you had a good day" text, I did not reply) Upon my return a week or so ago we spend 4 Lovely days together. We were connecting, we did activities, she stayed off her phone, she put her hand through my arm, (that rarely happened even when we were "good") she smiled, laughed a lot, I did kiss her (she did kiss me back for a few mins) everything was just good.
I asked her to come to therapy because I wanted to discuss some stuff about our daughter, she agreed, (the therapist was there as a mediator only no counseling, no nothing) toward the end of the session she began to cry, saying I've been a great parent, I'm returning to the person she fell in love with 6 years ago, that my changes seem genuine, that she's sooo happy for me, BUT that that didn't mean we were getting back together and she is still "confused".
I was feeling good, so I re-read my notes on this book, all the "what will be the first sign..." things I wrote down were met, with the exception of one. I was feeling good, but kept a level head.
fast fwd to this past weekend, my W flew off the handle. completely back to how she was when we first broke up. threatening to not let me see my SD take my house key back, because of 4 things, 1. I texted my SD birth father (she was him for the summer) telling her I missed her. 2. My W's mother (who I'm trying to value more and build an actual relationship with) texted me she hopes I find happiness, I replied with "I hope I find it again with my family". 3. the neighbor asked if we were "dating" I said no, the neighbor told my W I said we were (yes a jerk neighbor, I was trying to be nice) & finally, 4. I came over unannounced to water the grass...yes you are reading correctly, I came over to water the grass, my W was in the shower so I went back outside finished and left!
These actions to her meant I was "cornering her" again. Attempting to get "her people" on my side. I told her I understood how she could think that with her mom, told her the neighbor was lying, I stood my ground with the Birth father, apologized for coming over unannounced. we did not fight (she did raise her voice) but overall, no "fight" I practiced patience, communication, and tried something different, to diffuse the situation. Still things are not right.
Did I really backslide, or is this just part of her confusion going back and forth? I seriously thought we were moving in a good direction (not necessarily a reconciliation, just good).
How do I go back to heading toward a good direction?
What's my next move?
Right now, my SD is back for one week and will leave again. My instinct tells me to stick around for the week, (my W and I have both agreed to do family things) and back off completely when my SD leaves again for 10/12 days. Revisiting the situation upon her return.
Well, Whats my next move, where do I go from here?
All input is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
-M
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
1. I texted my SD birth father telling her I missed her.
2. My W's mother (who I'm trying to value more and build an actual relationship with) texted me she hopes I find happiness, I replied with "I hope I find it again with my family".
3. the neighbor asked if we were "dating" I said no, the neighbor told my W I said we were (yes a jerk neighbor, I was trying to be nice) & finally,
4. I came over unannounced to water the grass.
1. That seems OK to me.
2. This is not a good time for you to "build" a relationship w/ your W's mother. I would keep it very low key. But, just the simple text reply seems very benign to me.
3. I would've given the neighbor zero information. Say something like, "Sorry, I don't want to talk about it."
4. This is a bad time to care about the grass. Her space/privacy is far more important.
This is all the kind of stuff I might have done too -- it's just easier to make the call since I'm not in your shoes.
Your W's in a very sensitive place. I would give her wide berth in terms of space/privacy. Absolutely no more coming over unannounced, unless the house is on fire. No more text messages w/ your mother-in-law. But do what you believe is best for being a father to your child/children.
I'm trying to figure out why you moved out just because she told you to move out. Why do you need permission to live in your own house?
Thank you forgump.
rds- I'm not on the mortgage... Didn't want things to get ugly. When she's what I call "crazy" mode there is no reasoning.
Thank you forgump.
rds- I'm not on the mortgage... Didn't want things to get ugly. When she's what I call "crazy" mode there is no reasoning.
I understand you not being on the mortgage, but did she have the house before you were married? My name is the only one on the mortgage but my W has full access to the house if she wanted and there isn't anything I can do about it.
I've seen too many men get screwed because they left the house because they thought it was the "right" thing to do and it turns out it was the worst thing they could have done, even if the W goes into crazy mode.
good point, however I have already moved my clothes out and have been staying in a spare bedroom of a friends.
any idea what my next move is?
thanks man.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
any idea what my next move is?
How about moving back into the house and the MBR
I know I was worried about my car loan/title being only in my wife's name, but in my case once I spoke to a lawyer was able to confirm that since it was acquired while we were married the specific name on it didn't matter and it was just shared marital property. Since things can vary by state, and whether the mortgage was acquired before or after marriage might matter, it sounds like it would definitely behoove you to see a lawyer for clarification. That could help you be prepared if your wife resists you moving back, threatens legal action or police, tries changing locks, etc.
Cadet - not moving back. I believe she's dating. Not sure. No real evidence, just a gut. She said she's not, but even if she was it would be none of my business. I feel like I'm her plan b. How do i stop being plan b? I am re-reading DR on chapter 4 as of last night. I need help.
We are going as a family to the movies tonight. the life of pets.
After the movie will be painful, Leaving my family to go to an empty house [censored].
Try reading the pursuit and distance thread and tell me how you fit into that.
Saw you wrote this in another thread:
A week or so ago she told me through tears she's proud of who I'm becoming, that she sees the Me she fell in love with but that she was still confused and wasn't sure we'd be reconciling. (In the beginning she told me she was sure we would not reconcile)
Holy cow! This is awesome progress. Congratulations.
(Obviously, don't let your guard down, keep plugging away.)
yes, except she lost her marbles this past weekend, if you read the beginning of this thread. which is why I'm here, i feel like I'm backsliding and I don't know what my next move is.
Its not you backsliding its her guilt from having an EA....she wants the stability from you and the excitement from the EA....I would move back into your house and make her move out....and can you just take your kids to the movie and not your W?
the EA is long over. that lasted about...2 months.
She spoke to my therapist the day I asked her to talk about our daughter (as my therapist being the mediator) she told us to keep doing stuff as a family, and keep a routine, for example we do dinner & family game night Sunday nights...back to school shopping, first day of school, (just around the corner)
That is why we are going to a movie tonight.
and she's technically my step-daughter. which is why I cannot make any decisions...she'll keep her from me otherwise. already been threatened twice.
Ok, but you said you think she is dating so maybe that is why she is acting different....
Just left the movies. As always had to say good bye to my family. Breaks my heart Everytime. My W only checked her phone 3 times during the movie. An improvement. Makes me wonder if this is worth it. She doesn't want me, why do I want her? Why am I hoping to have her want me?
yes, except she lost her marbles this past weekend, if you read the beginning of this thread. which is why I'm here, i feel like I'm backsliding and I don't know what my next move is.
clearte, sorry I garbled the timeline.
Sukcs, what you're going through....
But that's a good question: why DO you want her? What are positive things that draw you to her?
It's hard, as I'm sure everyone here understands...
when she's all into her phone (I presume she's talking to a guy, no real idea though) it makes me question this. It (for obvious reasons) makes me feel less, not enough. I tend to think "is whomever she's talking to THAT important? more important than her child, mom and spouse?" yes. yes. they. are.
When she's present with me / the family, the woman I married is there, she's fully there. The kind, loving, funny, caring woman I married is there. -I guess those are the moments I'm sure what I'm doing is worth it.
I used to think she was trying to get a rise out of me, I'd get mad or upset if she was just on her phone, I'd make a negative remark, now I try something new and keep my mouth shut. I cant control her anyway. But I refuse to react.
Anyone else feel like "damn I've made it another day" like it's some accomplishment? cus my day is almost halfway over and that's how I'm feeling right about now.
Anyone else feel like "damn I've made it another day" like it's some accomplishment? cus my day is almost halfway over and that's how I'm feeling right about now.
Oh yeah. I also keep feeling that I should post an update - but there really isn't one that's worth the electrons. Just nonsense and rambling speculation. I've really get to up my game and focus on things other than DB.
Clearte, why don't you stand up for yourself and say, W, while we're together as a family, I would appreciate it if you would put your phone away, and I'll do the same. Let's focus on SD, and the movie/dinner/TV show -- whatever you're doing together.
If that won't work, then yeah, just ignore it. But I don't know anyone who wouldn't feel bad to see their spouse on a phone when you suspect an A.
Hello Clearte,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Your wife could be feeling guilty when she is having fun with you and SD as a family unit. She will experience lots of confusion, and so will you. Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best Clearte that only a fool would leave. Detaching and establishing some boundaries are key.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Anyone else feel like "damn I've made it another day" like it's some accomplishment? cus my day is almost halfway over and that's how I'm feeling right about now.
Clearte, this is how I feel every day. There are ups and downs daily, my goal has been to try to minimize the magnitude of them. Im getting better, but I still have those days where it really, really hirts every now and then. As silly as it sounds, I find if say at the end of the day that I'm proud of myself for grinding out that rough day it makes me feel better. Almost as if acknowledging the day sucked but I worked my butt of to get through it gets me back to a good place.
Keep your head up bud and know that we are all here to support you! A long and tough road ahead of you, but just take it one day at a time!
Oh yeah, my W is also on her phone using Facebook nonstop. Best you can do is fully ignore it. I think they are trying to get a rise out of us to validate we still care and they still have sway over our emotions. Don't even look over at her while she does it would be my advice.
I choose to be fully focused on my D and having fun whole she has her nose in her phone. If she chooses to not participate in that family time that's her loss.
Anyone else feel like "damn I've made it another day" like it's some accomplishment?
Oh yeah.
Me too.
But I also go to bed wondering if tomorrow is the day (when some bomb drops into my heart).
Lt0402 - yea, I ignore and look away. It still hurts. But, she recently said she was working on herself on being more “present” but it doesn’t seem like its working out for her.
Forgump – that thought has actually never crossed my mind, usually I go to bed thinking how happy I’ll be if she decides to reconcile “tomorrow” I always go to bed thinking happy thoughts.
W texted me that the kitchen sink is backing up, that she’s going to have to call a plumber….
Torn, I have nothing going on after work, I’d most likely be able to fix whatever is going on. I’d obviously like to see my D. I’m a nice kind person, I like helping.
I can’t make this decision on my own. I don’t know which way to go. She doesn't want me, she just needs a plumber.
MY biggest issue is, she's calling me when she could easily be calling the plumber or someone else.
This is my BIGGEST issue in this whole situation. I think if I'm kind, and she knows how much I do, she'll eventually see what she's missing. -LOST.
How does doing what you would normally do to be kind show her what she is missing?
W texted me that the kitchen sink is backing up, that she’s going to have to call a plumber….
Me too, my instinct is to be the "fix it" guy.
But I think it's better to let go, let her deal w/ it. (Speaking more for my own situation than yours.) I need to stop being the fix it guy.
Think you're supposed to let her deal w/ getting a plumber in to fix it. It forces her to realize her easy option, you, is not there anymore.
I believe others on the board would say fixing it immediately is a Hs job. She's saying she doesn't want you as her H anymore.
you're right lt402 - that's a H or a W job to fix stuff...not mine i replied with " will take a look tomorrow if you'd like" not canceling my plan for tonight and not being readily available but still being kind. some how telling her she's SOL doesn't seem right, so this is close second.
I have trouble telling my WW she's SOL as well bud, it's hard for me to figure out the line where I'm being dim or just being a jerk. WW and I still live S in the same house. AC went out and I spent weeks working with our home warranty company to get it all replaced. Even took 6 hours off work to deal with the repair guys when they came.
Not so much as a thank you from W. Feels like she used me when she was perfectly capable of at least being here while the AC guys did the work. Worried your W may be doing the same with this. I wonder if we open ourselves up to being their handymen we get a never ending stream of requests like this from them. Either way, not cancelling plans and offering to look tomorrow is a good choice too, just keep an eye on it if it keeps happening.
Not very fun amigo!!!
super depressed, as always, not sure what to do. hate my life. miss my wife and kid. love them to pieces, wish i had some of my life back.
You're not alone clearte. The emotional swings, especially when your mind isn't busy, can be brutal. Best you can do is focus on you and being the best dad you can be. Others have said its a marathon and not a sprint. Best we can do is GAL and focus on bettering ourselves to keep our sanity while the marathon plays out.
Keep your head up brother!
super depressed, as always, not sure what to do. hate my life. miss my wife and kid. love them to pieces, wish i had some of my life back.
Ditto.
You might talk to your doctor about going on an anti-depressant for a few months. Primary care physicians can prescribe those, doesn't have to be a psychiatrist.
But anti-depressants take a little work to get right -- there are many different ones, and some work well for some and not for others, and some have side effects for some while not so much for others.
Not pushing anyone into it, but worth if you want to stop feeling like you're dying all the time.
My IC told me getting a divorce is the most stressful event that happens to a person, worse than PTSD.
wow. what an informational Saturday.
This will be a long one. thanks for reading! and your input!
my D was eager to tell me what happened with OM from other country. OM asked MY W to be his 'girl friend' (OM just turned 25 not sure his age matters) W said yes, but later found out OM has a girlfriend in his country. So W broke off all ties with him. Claims she doesn't love him anymore. Why in the world would my W tell this to our 10 year old?! What in the heck is she thinking? I told D that W is married and she cannot have "boyfriends" and I also told D never to do that!
Also, If they are done, why aren't we back?!
Not sure why W feels the need to date, one of the reasons she gave me was she's never been single, 16, got with EXBF (D birth father cus she got pregnant) they were on and off until I arrived at 20yrs old (both of us). We fell in love, and she's been with me since.
I fixed the kitchen sink. W asked to take a look at the cable box. Forgot, will do tomorrow because Sunday is Family Game night. My W's love language is acts of service, which is why I'm hesitant not to do them...any direction here folks?
D mentioned W seemed extra happy today, D also said W is usually "ok" or "happy" but that lately when I come around she's been extra happy. Not letting it get to me. D said she'd keep a closer look. D has a habit of telling you what you want to hear, not such a credible source on this "observing" but felt nice to hear.
D also told me W and D are going to Mexico in October with W's nursing friend and are crashing their Family vacation. D mentioned W is scared to tell me because of how I will react, she does not want to make me mad since she canceled our first real vacation over our anniversary to Mexico this year (I was pretty pissed, and told her she was ruining my life. pre DR days of course) Knowing that, when my W finally tells me I will have been prepared and can act opposite of how she expects. I am deeply hurt, but not mad.
I had some good quality time with the D. (really working on my step-mothering, was a big problem I'm kind of strict, don't show my love for D, so everyone thinks I don't like her) We cleaned out her room and made room for Back to school clothes (I usually handle that while she's away with BF but I decided this year we could bond, that kid is messy!) W came in and asked if we wanted breakfast, W then came down with breakfast sandwiches and we sat on D's bed. W came in a few times thereafter to see what we were up to. W tried to have meaningless conversation with me, I avoided, Working on disengaging. W also showered came in to "chat" with really short shorts. Had to look away.
W is going to a party tonight, she made jello shots and deviled eggs, I told her to have a great time with her friends. Dropped D off at her sleepover. Annoyed I wasn't asked to watch her. But kept my mouth shut.
D leaves on Monday until the 14th, with cousins to another state. Going to work hard on disengaging and not pursuing my W.
Still very hopeful, just trying to keep a level head.
Please don't look at the cable box. The point was she FIRED you as her H so it's not your job any longer. Let her see what life without you would be. Be nice in Other ways but remember, you have your own life and you can't be at her neck and call! That makes it easier for her to slowly move away from you
I would also encourage that you keep the discussions that you have with your d about your w to a minimum.
She should not be sharing things like that with you and you should not be asking questions or gathering Intel in this manner.
It is not good to have the children in the middle.
I know it is a challenge as my d18 and I regularly recommit to avoiding conversations about her mother. D18 will want to share a frustration or give me an update, and I catch myself asking how her mother is doing etc. But I have seen these conversations head down a bad path and I know it does no good.
Really no good can come from these conversations, so it is best to avoid them.
Just my 2c and MHO
I want to second SH_'s advice about involving your D10 in your problems. I believe it's a very bad idea, and can have long-term psychological consequences for your D10.
Sorry. I'd be just as tempted as you to want to get info from her.
I hear you guys, we've had numerous conversations (as the EA was in full swing) about not telling me things, (my W made D face time with OM and call him among other stuff) I've told her, W has told her and we have both told her together. Not sure why W involves her. Once D starts chatting it's never ending.
W and I had what I think was a decent conversation. She told me about Mexico, and tried to give "reasons" why It's a great idea I told her "you don't need to give reasons why it's great, I hope you have a lovely time".
W and I keep having same conversations, how she feels I'm trying to make "her people" go on "my side" How I'm over stepping boundaries she has. Felt like a fool today, made plans with W to pick up D from sitter, called sitter sitter said she had no idea and I could not pick up D because she knows we are "having issues" and I am not D's parent. wow. I felt like poop.
W got nursing schedule and W expressed that I need to adhere to a strict schedule with D and that she doesn't want D around me all weekend so that W would find a sitter for one of the weekend days. W also said I'd be allowed to pick D up one day during the weekday, though she doesn't need "help" during weekdays (so I guess I should be thankful I'm allowed to see D when W doesn't need a sitter...pft) .
W also told me that she feels I'm "too involved" and I want to know everything going on in W & D lives, and that W needs to take back control and I need to let her. W said she understands it's hard because I have done everything for W & D for 6 years, and she understands it's coming from a good place but again, I need to stick to what W says so she can get control back.
W threw in "I know you're working on your relationship with D and me, and other stuff and not being around us makes it hard for you, but I'm not ready to work on things yet" - the yet is something I cannot read into.
I really feel that if W feels like she's gotten control of her life we could R. But the unknown is a scary place and anything can happen. I need to give up control. I need to give more emotional space to her, W, like always is telling me exactly what she wants and I need to be capable of doing it. It seems so counter productive to step back, how will we ever reunite if she's so "fine" with out me / has everything she wants? - no idea but I'm going to stick to my schedule GAL and dive into this with the best positive attitude I can acquire.
not feeling great, but definitely not feeling so down like usual days.
Made it one more day.
She feels I'm trying to make "her people" go on "my side" How I'm over stepping boundaries she has. ... She feels I'm "too involved" and I want to know everything going on in W & D lives, and that W needs to take back control and I need to let her. ... "I know you're working on your relationship with D and me...." I need to give up control. I need to give more emotional space to her ...
I thought you were doing a pretty good job letting her go (based on what you yourself reported). What are you doing that makes her feel like you're still too involved, and over-stepping boundaries?
It seems so counter productive to step back, how will we ever reunite if she's so "fine" with out me / has everything she wants?
I struggle w/ this too but ... I think we have to let go because the W has to LOVE you, not just NEED you like she needs a plumber or an assistant.
She feels I'm trying to make "her people" go on "my side" How I'm over stepping boundaries she has. ... She feels I'm "too involved" and I want to know everything going on in W & D lives, and that W needs to take back control and I need to let her. ... "I know you're working on your relationship with D and me...." I need to give up control. I need to give more emotional space to her ...
I thought you were doing a pretty good job letting her go (based on what you yourself reported). What are you doing that makes her feel like you're still too involved, and over-stepping boundaries?
It seems so counter productive to step back, how will we ever reunite if she's so "fine" with out me / has everything she wants?
I struggle w/ this too but ...
I think we have to let go because the W has to LOVE you, not just NEED you like she needs a plumber or an assistant.So true Gump, so true.
This is so missed in this community in the early stages of many situations. Everyone is trying to make the WAS see what they are missing. That is a need.
Love is a choice.
We have all heard the quote,
If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were. Richard BachIt does not seem to just be a saying. There seems to be something to it, right?
I'm not entirely sure, I myself has thought I was headed in a good direction. W said more with things that have to do with D. I scheduled EVERYTHING that revolved around D so when I ask questions about her schedule she feels I'm trying to control it.
Maybe I'm being to optimistic but I really feel after last night's talk If I let her take her control back & be her support perhaps she can begin to think of our married life again.
I have a GAL thing almost everyday after work this week & softball tournament on the weekend.
D is gone, so minimal to no contact with the W.
I haven't had a good day in a few weeks. Today is a good day already. I don't feel "foggy" or overly emotional. I will be able to work!
I really feel after last night's talk If I let her take her control back & be her support perhaps she can begin to think of our married life again.
I think my W needs to have good feelings about
ME, not really about our
married life... I think there is subtle but important difference there.
clearte have you read DR?
ForGump is correct here.
You need to stay out of the cheeseless tunnels and avoid doing what you feel is right and focus on doing what works.
You will appreciate the outcomes much more down the road. And believe everyone here, it is a long road.
You can make the journey more pleaseing if you listen up now and go against your instincts. Think about it this way. If you had been going against your instincts more often leading up to this point, you may be in a different place.
Focus on you and let her run her own course.
I know it feels wrong, but the principle is right my DB friend.
This is about doing what works, not what feels good.
I have read DR, twice. I feel like I'm just not learning anything, One day I feel I hear her, the next we have same conversations. W texted me not long ago, saying she's going to email me how she's feeling and what's going on since she's incapable of expressing it to me face to face.
here I thought my day had started good.
I'm at work, I cant believe she's going to say whatever it is, while she knows I'm at work.
-thinking the worst.
You can choose to read the text when you are not at work and in a better place to read it.
You can't control what she does but you can choose what you do here.
DB principle you can apply.
Act as if.
This way you are not " thinking the worst".
Hang in there my DB friend.
Have you spoken with a DB coach to help you apply what you have read in DR?
I have not, I have an IC and cannot afford both.
Not sure what to do,
received email after 1hr and 15min of waiting. not reading it until later.
-feel like I'm going to have a breakdown.
I know the feeling. I dread emails from my W. I feel for you, man...
I have not, I have an IC and cannot afford both.
Not sure what to do,
received email after 1hr and 15min of waiting. not reading it until later.
-feel like I'm going to have a breakdown.
Stay strong clearte. Try to occupy yourself with other things today, even though I know how difficult it is. I'd offer that you wait until you get off work to read it. I know that if I hit the gym post work and then delve into this type of stuff I'm a lot more level headed and less on edge.
Regardless of what it says, don't respond immediately. Take some time to dwell it over and hit some of the vets on here for advice and a counterpoint.
We're all here for you brother!
"To start, I think you need to realize that at this time, our marriage is done in my eyes. I am not interested in repairing or fixing this marriage. I have been really focusing on me and SD, and I feel like I am a better person without you. I know that may really hurt to hear, I'm sorry, but I think that you need to start moving on. "
W also mentioned she is not impressed with my changes. Mainly it's all about D. and how she doesn't think she can trust me to take care of her or be around her.
any direction here guys for the marriage part?
I can imagine getting an email like this from my W.
Not that you should necessarily reply -- maybe it's best to just let it be -- but you could say,
"I agree, our marriage is done. The marriage we had suffered from [XYZ]. And I'm moving forward, setting a new course for the person I want to be and am working on it. I am glad to hear you feel you're becoming a better person. I want you to be happy."
"I agree, our marriage is done. The marriage we had suffered from [XYZ]. And I'm moving forward, setting a new course for the person I want to be and am working on it. I am glad to hear you feel you're becoming a better person. I want you to be happy."
Hiya, C.
I am dealing with some personal issues that require my time which is why I've not been here for some time. Whatever you do, DO NOT send the above suggested text/email response. Sit tight and I WILL be back tomorrow with a suggested response that is in line with DB principles.
For now,do nothing and do someTLC for yourself.
Can you do this today/tonight?
((((C)))))
is it possible to come back from that? She'd always said she wasnt sure...and that she was confused.
now I feel like its really over.
Talked to W, her main concerns are about what is said to D, or around her. I agreed with W, she even staid "stop telling me I'm right" I validated her feelings a lot. I told her we would stop having boundary conversarion, she said "then show me" I really think she's back to the stranger W after she freaked out that we had too many good days and she was normal W.
We did not touch on the marriage.
We concluded with I need to show her, stick to the schedule, I want to be a good Parent, we are in same page, no more circle talks, & we are "friends".
Made an appointment with a coach. I need serious help. I thought things were going good and bam. Another crappy day almost done.
Hang in there brother. I get the "stop saying you understand" at times when I validate as well. Seems to be an art for when you lob that in there. I'd go back and re-read the validating post and take some time to put the phrases in your own words. My W told me I sounded like a therapy book when I regurgitated them from there. Needs to sound like it's coming from clearte.
For the other stuff, you probably need some vets to opine. Going dark seems like a possibility but as you know from my thread I'm no master of that.
Regardless, keep your head up and stay strong. Here to support you brother!
thanks! the word regurgitate makes me think of my cat puking!
I seem to be wrong more than not.
Thought we concluded on a decent note on the phone earlier,
reached out to W about D, got ignored then finally an "I don't want to talk" text. I replied with "ok" -will go dim.
crazy to think almost two weeks ago we were enjoying each others company and being extra kind and caring toward each other.
Clearte
You won't break down. It is a feeling and that feeling is fear.
Some of us work from a base of fear and anxiety, others from different emotions. Part of this journey is learning to tell these emotions apart, to learn what you are feeling and to manage it.
It is called emotional regulation and self soothing is part of it.
Some of us never learn our emotions early or we operate from one emotional base so strongly that we loose track of it.
I want you to know that there are generally thought to be six base emotions, fear, sadness, joy, Disgust, anger and surprise.
Then there are combinations which constitute other emotions, I think of these emotions like a disco machine with six sliders one for each emotion and at the moment your fear slider is way up.
What is needed is the volume control turned down to reduce the intensity. I know this and recognised it as my base emotion is fear.
Have you seen the film Inside Out? It's a disney film for children. It is an excellent resource for learning about emotions. I have watched it thirty times at least. I own two copies and it's on my laptop permanently.
My sense is that knowing and recognising which feeling you have will be helpful to you. It will be helpful to moving to detachment.
Knowing the difference between a feeling, thought and a behaviour is a tool in your toolkit. To a large extent we assume we know and in my case it was a bad assumption. I had to learn, oh yes that's fear, oh dear that's disgust. In my case disgust turned inwards which created shame leading to a belief that I deserved how I was treated followed by behaviour of not enforcing boundaries.
Emotions are feelings turned one way or another, inwards or outwards. Feelings with direction.
Once you observe feelings then they cease to drive you, they become like flotsam on a river flowing by that you can observe. You will always feel your feelings, they are yours, no one has the right to deny your feelings. No one can ever deny your feelings nor should you , acknowledge them and know they need not cause you to break. Authenticity is knowing your feelings and appropriately expressing them, such as I am angry right now, I am disgusted with myself for that behaviour, I am so very happy you visited, that took me by surprise, I am sad the cat died etc. In your case I am afraid of loss, afraid I am .........
In case you wondered love is a choice of behaviour.
Know that sometimes the hormones that drive the feelings (sliders on our disco kit) flood us and overwhelm us. The term for that is flooding and it takes about 10 mins to calm down, 20 if it's fear, adrenalin is more long lasting. It will make you think you are going to break down. You won't of course, these hormones are in the body all the time.
What you are feeling is causing body sensations of breaking down. They are just sensations and they will pass. I know this.
That is different from sadness which over a long period can create depression which is helped by time and professional treatment.
There is good news! Fear even the most frightening types which give panic attacks are the most well researched of all emotions and there is plenty of help.
I hope this is of assistance to you and that the tool of self soothing will move you to release the overwhelm.
This is absolutely totally and utterly normal and completely ok. It is designed to be this way so bring it on. It's part of your healing and how it should be. Strikes me your base emotion is fear and now you know you can never not know.
Expect with realisation, great calmness and peace. Knowledge is power and it need never be this bad again.
Treat yourself kindly and with compassion,
V
So it's good to let your flooding subside before you send any kind of text or email.
Some things once done can never be undone.
Wonka is brilliant at these texts etc.
Hold fire, let things marinade a while. Sometimes doing nothing is important.
V
Thank you V
I have watched that movie. Will have to watch it again.
Love is a choice of behavior. - I like that, I always tell myself Love is a choice. never thought of behavior, which helps me see how and why I am here, sliding backward with my W.
C,
I am so sorry that you are struggling especially after reading W's email/text. You need to realize and understand that all WASes do speak in the absolutes because it's where their POV is at this moment. It's script and par for the course in the early stages of an A.
Yes, it is possible to get back from an A and reconcile. It is a very long and hard slog. I tell all newbies to stick with DBing for at least a year before one sees any movement. In the early stages of DBing, I heard NOT one single peep from Ms. Wonka for FOUR solid months. No smoke signals either!!!
Radio silence can be really rough for newbies.
It is essential that you CEASE...STOP all R talk with W for it just makes her dig in her heels all the much more harder. It's useless when they are all in the flush of an A. Don't pay heed to what W says for it is all negative because, how else, how could she justify leaving a wonderful woman like you?!! Right...then demonizing you is full on force here!
Since you are a newbie and we all ask that newbies post their responses, not because they can't do it, but rather as a learning process on how to compose emails/texts effectively in the DB way. The first few times, I will show you the way then you will compose your own drafts with support from us.
The main thing when composing texts/emails is: KISS. Keep It Short and Simple. Leave emotion out of it.
In response W's email/text:
"To start, I think you need to realize that at this time, our marriage is done in my eyes. I am not interested in repairing or fixing this marriage. I have been really focusing on me and SD, and I feel like I am a better person without you. I know that may really hurt to hear, I'm sorry, but I think that you need to start moving on."
Suggested response (you may change to suit your style):
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It cannot be easy for you at all. It is only right that we focus on SD for she's a great girl. You are a terrific mom. Take care...C
See? You don't argue with her POV nor agree to it. Just acknowledging it and looking past the absolutes/negatives.
Hang in there...chin up. We've got your back here, sweetie.
wow that response even made ME feel good!
Thank you so much Wonka!
I felt pretty down yesterday, that she's finally telling me to move on, like i said it's always been "idk" or "i'm not sure" that seemed so definitive, it's the first time those words came out of her mouth and I hated every one of them.
I have certainly stopped all R talk, W is usually the one to bring it up "I'm not ready to work on the M yet" - 7.31.16 at night. then that lovely email to contradict everything -8.1.16.
W texted me about bills this morning, we have joint cell phones with some of my family, W handles everyone paying up. I kept it short and simple with my responses.
Will continue to dim out, I can tell by her text style W is upset or mad. Don't want to get in her path!
Having a decent day so far.
Thank you everyone!!!!!
I tell all newbies to stick with DBing for at least a year before one sees any movement.
Even after divorce is final? Keep waiting? Or move on w/ your own life, e.g., dating new people.
Suggested response (you may change to suit your style):
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It cannot be easy for you at all. It is only right that we focus on SD for she's a great girl. You are a terrific mom. Take care...C
Brilliant !!!
The technique is LRT at a good point it moves you forward.
You can stand for your R as long as you want to.
V
Just had my first phone coaching session.
I feel pretty good!
W started new clinicals today, hope she calls to tell me about them. but If not, then she doesn't and it'll be ok.
planning on getting a lot of work done today. need to take advantage of good days!
Glad your phone coaching session was good and that you are having a good day so far!!
Hope it continues!
journaling- nothing new, W never called to tell me about her day...guess she found someone new to tell it to.
met with a friend for drinks. just realized I didn't eat today.
made a doc appointment. kind of losing my ish. going to talk about anti depressants. kind of scared? Idk what it is. but my main emotion is fear, that I do know.
going to the batting cages then dinner with my softball team tomorrow after work. super excited about that.
had an ok day. guess I cant complain, I'm here, I'm healthy, my D is happy and healthy, what more can I ask.
clearte,
Keep in mind that anti-dep is not real easy to use. Not like popping a few tylenols for a headache. It takes a couple of weeks to get stabilized in your system, and -- if you choose to get off -- you have to take your time weaning yourself off. Going cold turkey can give you bad side effects. Also if one doesn't work well, your doctor can have you try another. All have side effects, like sleepiness, and impact on sex drive, etc.
Seriously discuss the benefits carefully vs. costs w/ your doctor. If you feel like depression is making it hard to function at home and/or work ... it could be worth it to go on it for a few months.
I'd like to hear more about what you got out of phone coaching.
For me, my IC has been my main counselor... along w/ reading this forum.
thanks Forgump, it' most certainly just to see options / talk. who knows if I'll even go on any. I almost feel like a little kid, asking for help. Again, my main emotion is fear, all the time, so when the dr had her assistant call me and the girl said with "your normal doc and doc.2" I was like "who's that" i started to panic haha I don't know why. I always feel like I'll say the wrong thing to my IC or my doc and I'll end up in the looney bin. It's hard expressing feelings when anything can be taken out of context. I read someone's thread not long ago and I couldn't have said it better myself, they expressed how they aren't, and I am not either, suicidal but man, sometimes you just don't even want to be. something about being a black nothing. at any rate, I feel like I don't like this life, this isn't MY life, I'm living the life of someone else and I hate it. I'm definitely having a hard time everywhere in my life. Idk though, maybe I can GAL enough and get out of it, I just don't know.
For me my biggest struggle with my IC is we talk about past feelings. I wasn't getting the tools to live day to day with my situation, I'm still anxious, scared, on edge. Which is why I decided to call, It was good, I immediately felt like It's a situation I can handle, basically It's like going over the book with someone right there, she asked questions pertaining to my life / the book that I hadn't though about. I think I mentioned it in my previous posts, I read the book, but felt lost. (I'm a pretty intelligent person) I didn't know what to do or where to start. I didn't know how or why Normal W showed up for a week-ish let alone why she disappeared again, or how to head toward normal W again. So with Coach I was able to see what I was doing right and what was a cheese less tunnel.
I'm in this for the long haul I need to make sure I take care of me and I do everything I can before I call it quits.
Got a text from W early in the am telling me there's nothing to report about clinicals, nurse is nice. hope you're well. -densest seem like a temp check to me. Definitely bummed I'm not the first call she made yesterday, (did hope for it, didn't wait around for it) doing something different, I'd still call her to listen about school, test, blah blah. Coach was firm on NO, let W initiate. does that text even require a response? I was going to reply something like "glad you like the nurse" and that's it.
thanks for listening all!
also, can I get a vet to chime in on this,
I've never really worn my ring...ever. after W came back from vacay and I had a "come to jesus" moment about us (same time she had a come away from jesus moment about us) I began wearing it(a week before BD).
I feel like after she told me to move on, and I must act as if I am, I should take it off. (I've come to love it, I never gave it a fair chance, my mistake)
My coach mentioned something about I never listen to the W so if I stop pursuing and calling and stuff, she will see I am listening about her "move on". so I'm thinking the ring's gotta go!
any input is appreciated.
clearte,
The word in this community as to wear the ring or not wear the ring is purely an individual choice.
The rule of thumb is that being an individual choice, then whatever you do, it should be done purely for you.
Do not do it with hopes of a reaction from the W.
Do not do it with hopes your W will notice or feel something about it.
Simply ,make the choice for you.
Some LBS see a lot of symbolism in the ring and others not so much.
I never wore mine in the 19 years of marriage, because of a personal preference.
I did pull it out for a short time after she moved out and wore it more as a reminder for myself of many things. But I have since placed it in a drawer as it really did not remind me of anything beneficial and I still do not enjoy the feeling of a ring of any sort on my hand.
So in short, do what is right for you and you only.
Personally, I wore mine until a few days after W moved out and then I took it off. I left it in the dish on my nightstand where it always sat when I wasn't wearing it and then after a few weeks I moved the dish and put the entire thing, ring and all, away in my jewelry cabinet. I haven't looked at it since.
I still miss wearing it, I really loved it and loved what it meant but at this point I don't feel like it has a ton of meaning to it and it was less painful for me to not wear it than to keep it on as a constant reminder of what has happened recently. That being said I do hope to be able to wear it again one day, even if it is just as a fashion piece and not a symbol of love.
thanks, I know its what I want, I've even chimed in on some other ring posts..it's such a difficult decision.
I'm totally doing it for me, but even for me, I don't know what right or wrong.
journaling - making plans or looking into making plans and then I just get this overwhelming feeling and want to cry...really missing the W (not that there's a time I don't miss her) just sitting at my desk, and thinking how in the hell did WE get here.
have a busy afternoon, beers with co workers after work, dancing with some of the softball girls later.
just want a hug, and someone to tell me it'll be okay..
How was dancing? (((C))) virtual hugs
Hey dancing was a lot of fun! I learned to two step with some fine older women. Then made it to the younger crowd of the dance floor. But left shortly after.
Slept like poop. Dreamt about W and how everything was magically ok. Felt so real. On the verge of tears when I woke and realized it was just a dream.. Throwing me off my mental and emotional game today already and it's like 7am.
That's something I need to work on - getting out of my head and carrying on.
Oh and thank you for the ((hugs)) right back at you!
Can't stop thinking about W telling me she's better without me. Tears me up inside... I'm having a busy weekend. I Thought that would suffice to not be so down. It's not. I feel so helpless and like this situation is never going to get better or end.
Remember the rule do not listen to 100% of what they say...
Hang in there its a marathon not a race....I know how you feel!!
How are you doing cheesyt?
Thanks hawker, words still hurt. Makes me wonder how I'm going to get over all this treatment / words if things take a turn you know?
I'm good, I forced myself to go out with my friend went to a wedding, danced my rear off and had a lot of fun last night. Like a lot. Carefree fun.
Today just at my softball tournament, we came in 4th out of 6 teams hahah so we did ok. Just hanging out drinking beer with a bunch of lesbians. (it's a gay and lesbian league)
No temp check from the W, guess I got used to them, weird how she's keeping her distance. Last time that happened I was over seas so didn't notice. Day 4.
How's life in the hawk world?
I know words hurt.....that is good that you got out and had some fun...
Oh I loved playing in softball tournaments, too bad I"m too old for that now...hahaha...hamstring issues...
Ya, I went to day 5 until my temp check...LOL...Hang in there...
I updated my stich so if you wanna take a look...
Can't stop thinking about W telling me she's better without me. Tears me up inside... I'm having a busy weekend. I Thought that would suffice to not be so down. It's not. I feel so helpless and like this situation is never going to get better or end.
CheesyT - sorry to say it but she probably believes it to be true right now. One of the things that hurt me so much was my W being so very smug and superior and so very confident in her path and her friends. Then when she leaned on those friends for real support, they bailed on her. The image I had of my WW the day she walked out of our door was of a shaken and scared woman who didn't know where the future was taking her.
Attitudes change - this is a journey, not a destination. You're just on one of those parts with a lot of bumps.
thanks andrew, you're right, attitudes change, W did tell me that when she was mad. (W has always been the type to spit ugly words when mad, then tends to take them back when she's not mad) just because she's so perfect without me now doesn't mean she will be like that forever. Also, I keep thinking if she fell in love with me once, then it can happen again.
update on the weekend. (Since I've had time to process it) Had a rough Saturday. the dream and all these thoughts threw me off. While at the wedding I got to see a lot of families, lots of couples and happiness. Also, the softball game, yeah most of the woman there are married, but there's so many that are single and loving and living life. With both of those outings I was reminded and began thinking that will be me one day. I will find happiness on my own, and then eventually someone (could be my W, or not) & I'll be truly happy again. It's going to take a while, but I will be okay.
W texted bright and early "hope you are well." haven't responded but was thinking "thanks" I don't feel like i need to ask her how's she's doing. Also, don't want to ignore and make her mad, so I think a "thanks" is good enough. Not sure, going to sit on it for a few more hours.
ahhh man...does my W know I'm having a good day or what?!
I replied with "thanks" and she almost immediately said "are you ok?"
wth man! does she really care, or just temp checking. Not that I'll reply with anything concrete. or anything to open for discussion.
I'm thinking "I'm good" Idk though. I tend to stick my foot in my mouth more often than not.
-getting antsy.
Wait. Let her wonder. Don't text back yet. She's temp checking and wants not to feel guilty.
so do I just eventually say "i'm good"?
Hey cheesyt, whatever sounds good to you. I just was thinking that if she has to wait and wonder it might make her think you aren't so available. Why not wait a while longer, then reply.
How about "Oh yeah, I'm good... busy." Then ignore her. I hope your texts don't send out that "read" message...
they absolutely do not send "read" haha. never.
I wasn't sure whether to keep it nice and short. Give any concrete information, keep it closed for conversation or what!
thank you!
Definitely. Keep it vague. Nice and short. No info. No questions. No, "how are you" back. You're too busy to even care, remember? :-)
so do I just eventually say "i'm good"?
Because I feel that it is vitally important to always tell the truth how about "Busy busy busy"?
haha, I'm actually pretty good today. she picked a good day to ask. and busy...not so busy.
sorry to hear you had a rough weekend. But it's good you still tried to get out and do some stuff! It will get easier!
I think they're giving you some pretty good advice on this temp checking situation! Good luck!
W is at it again, got another text about her school and how I'm no longer needed to watch D for a weekend...
Email last week had said I was not allowed to watch D alone anymore, so a little confused as to why W is letting me know this. W must have forgotten what she wrote when she was angry. go figure.
thanks maybs! right back at you! you're doing great too!!!! proud of us!
You both are doing great...listen to NYGal...she is very helpful!! Lets do this together...I'm tried of being mrs. nice guy
Ahhh had a great day. Temp check didn't affect me though for a while I thought it might. Went on a run with some running group. Amazing. Met some amazing nice kind people. As always, had a couple of beers and some dinner. Had a great time, seriously. Can't believe I'm out here living and really enjoying my life without the W. Crazy! I've come a long way!
Yay me. 'Twas a good day and im going to take it!
question of the day,
talking about important stuff, as in D and bills, animals, those aren't temp checks right?
ok, my text was my cat is almost out of food asknig if I wanted her to buy some or if I want to handle it (that's legit, i think) something about bills...fishy cus I get the "bill" text on the day I get paid & I get paid next week (my $ still goes in joint acct, for other legal reasons and I still use it) and lastly what day of the week I want D.
If she has the cat why isn't she buying the food? Is it your cat together? The bill thing sounds off....and do you have a set day to see your D? I think the vets say just talk to your S about kids....idk....lol....
Although my W brought over dog food and dog treats a month ago and told me she would continue to buy them food...LOL...I think now its her trying to ease her guilt.....
he's my cat but I cant take him until I have my own place (living with a friend now) so I was going over often to clean litter, water the infamous grass, fixing whatever W needed and "hanging out" with W. But we concluded that was cake eating so no more!
That's what we are planning, 2 set days to see D. so far I've got Sunday afternoon - bed time, and I told her I'd pick a convenient day for myself during the week.
Honestly, I don't see how my W will want to R. I don't know what's going on in W's brain but I can't see a solid R. -not trying to be negative, she just has no reason to not want to work on our M. There's no one else...like come on. The only thing is a MLC, she's showed some signs, wanting to "be single" cus she's never been single is extra sketch.
I'm sticking it out obviously but I want to keep a clear head.
I'm enjoying my GAL activities, excited for my half. Though on my run this morning I did get sad (was able to "run" it off though haha) I'm doing this half for me, but who will be at the finish line waiting for me? W was always there for my other races. (took that for granted too)
anyway, having a good day. Will reply to the W while keeping it short and simple.
good day everyone!!!!!