Quick update
W and I seemed to be working on or towards piecing, but I now think I saw more effort on her part than what was there (because I wanted to).
I continued to find her being dishonest or not forthcoming with stuff
Found out she downloaded some A friendly apps, she lied about when she downloaded them, and couldn't or wouldn't give me a reason as to why she downloaded them.
I moved her stuff out of MBR, she went berserk and we had a HUGE fight
I was set on moving out and D ASAP, I got hit with a lot of 2x4's and last minute agreed to in-house S.
I feel trapped and really not sure I want to be with her anymore.
Can a mod add link to my previous thread please.
This is something I wrote on kyler's thread, I thought it describes how I feel happy with myself and feel detached when I'm apart from my W.
I don't think you should consider out of sight - out of mind as detached, you will likely be emotionally affected the next time something crazy happens with your W... But OOS-OOM will help you for now, allowing you to focus on you, to find your happiness. When you find your happiness, the next time you find your self emotionally charged because of an action of W, you'll know that you can and will return to your place of self happiness, that will help you find the indifference to your Ws actions that's known as detachment.
Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2689837&page=10
I think accepting the now is working on you and letting go of what may or may not happen. I know I want my marriage to work. I am doing everything I can to become the best man I can be. In the end though that doesn't meant that the current M I have will work. But I do know I will be ok either way.
I agree Coconut, sometimes when I don't see my W for weeks I think I am detached and then boom we see each other it becomes emotional. I am trying to focus on doing things to make me happy and not worry about our R or her at this point!
Posts from other thread merged into this thread
cbtdad, that's where I struggle, I'm at the point now that I'm not sure if I really want my M to work, or at least I don't know if my W will change enough for me to want to be with her.. There are two things I've struggled with for a long time with my W, her always on her phone and her complete lack of homemaking... The always on phone is easy enough to understand, but I'll explain the homemaker comment.
I always pictured My M as having a happy home, meaning that we both enjoyed cooking meals and enjoying them with the family, having a home that is kept up (not OCD clean, but cleaned at least every couple of weeks, and then having special nights out.
The reality is that my W doesn't do anything around the house and very rarely cooks, she would rather go out anyday than enjoy spending a day at the house as a family. Early in our M, I forced cooking and eating as a family at the house because I felt it was needed for S, but in the last 3 or 4 years, we eat out 5 or 6 days a week (or get takeout). My W has cooked dinner once since November. And when we do go out for those "special" nights out, she spends most of the time with her face in her phone.
I know it seems petty, but it's how I've felt over the last few years.
Trust me Cnut as usual I know exactly how you feel. We are the same person I feel at times and married the same woman.
You pretty much just described my W.
I pictured exactly what you did and that is not what I got.
I remember on bomb day I asker her, "just so I don't feel like I am crazy you did feel like you wanted to have 2-3 kids and stay at home right?"
She said, "I thought that is what I wanted"
So my W is has changed since I married her.
My IC asked me what I needed to figure out was could I be happy with my new W. If so then work on it. If not then you will know when it's time to move forward. That is what I am currently doing.
My W has been cooking a lot more lately. I think part of it is because I am doing something different. I am not telling her what to cook, or putting down her cooking. She now tries cooking new things and its great.
I think right now Cnut you focus on you and becoming the man you want to be. I know its hard and takes patience, but I feel like you did what I did in my first situation and rushed right back into piecing.
Seriously? You are sounding like a WS trying to justify an affair.
Your sig says you were with your wife for a year and a half before you got married. Did you ever share this vision of marriage with her? Did she used to want to stay home and cook then, or did you think that marriage would change her?
If I remember correctly, your wife is not a SAHM, but works a professional job.
I value slow food, but I wouldn't divorce a spouse who preferred takeout. Families can enjoy a family dinner of takeout too.
The phone thing is irritating. A lot of people struggle with phone addictions. Have you discussed his with your wife? Maybe in marriage counseling so you have a third party there to help you not sound controlling.
I don't know, Coconut. Part of being committed to a marriage is holding steady when the other person is losing their feet, and taking the long view.
Your posts lately have made it seem that you are not committed, and you are looking for reasons to justify your lack of commitment.
Hey Coconut. Like you i was trying, atleast until a week ago. Now separated. Like you im angry and im looking for reasons.
Not just reasons but im also looking for a plan. Divorce sounds like a plan, it may eventually be the reality but its not now.
Im not looking at Divorce (this instant) nor am i looking for my M (well this varies throughout the day). Im accepting my reality of being separated and putting effort to focus on Son and finding things that will make me happy. In essense my wife is dead and im a grieving widower is how im approaching it.
To speak to what rose said.....
It's like the line "I had to divorce you because you didn't clean the bathroom well enough" or "you bought the wrong brand of ketchup"
Ever read the crazy justifications there are on here about why the WAS cheated or left?
Don't be one of them.
Be honest with yourself. Did you feel this way before the A? Or only now, after?
If you love her and who she is and always have, but can't deal with the aftermath of the A and feel like you may never be able to, then be honest with yourself. Don't blame it on her not cooking. BTW, you both seem to work equally, are you putting dinner on the table?
We all have visions of what we thought M would be. And when it wasn't what we invisioned, that is what causes us to make all sorts of decisions.
If you chose to move forward with D, I would HIGHLY suggest you not pursuing anyone for a while. You are not anywhere near there yet. Be with you for sometime. Take some time to get honest with yourself.
Rose,
We both work FT, before M and the first 4 or 5 years we both cooked, I've always helped with housework. The last 3 or 4 years I'm the only one who cooks regularly, 1 - 2 times a week, when I don't feel like cooking she would wait till late then ask me what we are doing for dinner. I often expressed my desire for home cooked meals on a regular basis. I do all the dishes, garbage, bills, mail, and she cleans the house only when people are coming over, this has been going on for years and has always been a source of contention for me.
My S and I both have talked to her about her phone usage quite a few times, but she's never curbed it at all.
Ginger, I'm honest when I say my feelings have been around for years, not just post A. As for loving her, that's where I'm struggling, I don't think I love her, but I don't know if that's post A or long term. I know I love my thought of us together, what our life could be, but I really don't know if I love her, but realize that could be anger related.
I want to make sure it's clear that I would not give up on M if I knew an AP wasn't in the picture, but I do think there is one.
If I find proof there is an A, would anyone question me if I was to file for D?
Coconut,
I am telling you from first hand experience, hold off as much as possible. Only you can make the decision based off of an A.
Even after my D is final, I am still planning on doing things that STBX wants. Not because she wants it, because I want to be able to look at my boys and say I did everything that I could.
Personally, I want to be M'd once in my life. If it is more than once, I am hoping (small hope) but hoping it will be with my STBX sometime in the future. My rope has a ton of slack in it.
Those who keep score will not live in a healthy M. If you can do it all great! Don't put down you W because she can't. That is how I felt also, I did this, and I did that. I will never think like that again.
Only you can know when to move on.
I hope I am able to give you a different perspective on your sitch.
JimKao, This is very good advice you gave:
"Even after my D is final, I am still planning on doing things that STBX wants. Not because she wants it, because I want to be able to look at my boys and say I did everything that I could."
I am doing the same. No matter how it turns out, my WW is still the mother of my S4. A good friend of mine whom I have allowed to track my sitch (mostly to watch me for signs of mental collapse at times)told me "One day your S4 will know the truth of all this, I just hope [WW name] conducts herself in a way which allows him to still respect her, because I know he will always respect you."
I see it in my best interest to make sure she still has dignity, self-respect, and the mental health to be a great mother to S4. I know she does not show that in terms of dealing with me, but my desire for the S4 to love her will always remain. When he is an adult and can decide things for himself - that will be up to her.
Cnut,
If you find proof she is having an affair then I would completely understand if you filed for divorce.
I know I would. That is a clear boundary that I have set with my W. I only told her once at the beginning of this, but I was as clear as can be.
If there is another person I would never be able to trust her again
I'm pretty sure you gave your W the same boundary
So I don't think anyone would fault you
Why do you think there is an OM?
Have you considered a house cleaner and/or a meal service? We recently hired someone to clean the house twice a month, and it has been really nice not to argue over whose turn it is to clean the bathrooms.
It sounds like your wife is living in a state of guilty until proven innocent. It can be tough to prove the absence of an affair. Do you know what proof would look like for you?
Maybe my position is closer to Zephyr's than I thought. I am not saying divorce is never justified, but if you want a long term relationship, I think you have to accept ups and downs. That might mean times when your partner is just not that into you and when their commitment to your marriage is dangling by a thread.
Your sitch is not that old, and your wife doesn't want a D. It seems premature to throw in the towel if you are committed to the marriage.
Your sitch is not that old, and your wife doesn't want a D. It seems premature to throw in the towel if you are committed to the marriage.
I think a great point has been made Coconut. If not for you than it has been for me. Thank you.
Coconut,
SIX MONTHS
SIX MONTHS
SIX MONTHS
SIX MONTHS
SIX MONTHS
Drill this on your forehead, buddy.
Sandi,
At least one of Coconut's redeeming qualities is that he hasn't gone out and bought W a Cadillac!
I am going to let you do the honors and explain this one to Coconut.
(((Sandi)))
Coconut, I was in the same place until info started to trickle in. Most of my "proof" was circumstantial and quickly shot down byW ... Utmately controlling the discussion and transferring to me... Can't believe you put a tracker on my car , you paid how much for it?, you were going to hire a pi? ... All while missing the fact that she had lied about where she was going and with who...
If you do find out something , like I did, you may in turn have some hard questions of if its enough to D over. You say it now .. But when it's concrete it's a little different. It took me sometime of weighing options and evidence before I said I cannot let this go on in my house...period!
Hey Cnut,
Sounds like you guys are speaking different love languages.. obviously she wasn't hitting yours. Have you read the 5 love languages book? Might be helpful for you. It was for me.
That is a boundary I think I'd set with my W. If she were ever to move home, and we start MC and real work, that would be #1. I cannot go through the pains I went through again.
That said, I'd talk to her about phone usage. Don't make it about YOU though, make it about S. She's missing valuable time with her child while she screws around on that thing. As for cooking, I get where you're going. My W stopped cooking and it seemed weird. Doing meal prep for the week, cooking dinner, everything. I later found out she was doing that because she was going out on &%#@*! dates.
I think you may be angry. I wanted W back no matter what the first few weeks she was gone. I'd blurt out at home alone sometimes that I didn't want to see her again, but for the most part I just pulled my emotions so tight I didn't let anything out. Until I got angry, and I let her have it. You're an awful mother, liar, cheater, pathetic, etc. You may not say those things, but I'm guessing you think some of them sometimes.
If there is proof of an affair, I think you'd be justified in filing. Morally, I already know I'm justified. I hold a very Christian view of marriage, so I know I hold the moral high ground. That said, I'm working such that I know I can be a great man and Dad w/o W but at the same time trying my best to make sure S has the family he deserves.
All that to say this: Give it a little time. You're not "sure" you love her means there's some in there you just don't know how much or if it's enough. Barring an A, I wouldn't give up until I KNEW I wanted out....
Sandi,
At least one of Coconut's redeeming qualities is that he hasn't gone out and bought W a Cadillac! I am going to let you do the honors and explain this one to Coconut.
(((Sandi)))
Against all advice, the betrayed H bought his WW a Cadillac, trying to win her back into the M. She was elated, but it didn't work out very well for the H. If I remember correctly, she and her new Cadillac took off.......leaving the H and the M in the dust.
Yes, you have a lot of redeeming qualities, Coconut. I hope you won't lose them.
Take your time, cool down, and stop looking for all the reasons to leave your W.
Have you took my challenge to stop interacting with your new lady friend?
Well, I have a direction now.. Confirmed that A is ongoing yesterday with a digital recorder in her car. She was actually taking our friend, that I've known for 25 years to go meet him... I'm done, stayed with my cousin last night and going to tonight, have to figure out what to do after that. I want to get away from the house and just come by when I need to when she's at school.
I will give details, but for all you newbies please note my actions were not the DB way, but I knew I was done so I did things that I wanted to do to finally get a confession and give her a quick lesson on taking care of things without me in her life (and stop last nights date).
So W got home from work yesterday, came in and asked if I was going out and said she was going out with our friend and S was going to play paintball. She went in her room and I went outside to get the recorder, went in my room and started listening. I heard her tell someone:
- I wanted to let you know why I was upset
- I don't want to have secrets
- she really wants to meet you
Then phone call with friend:
- Cnut can check my texts so don't mention OM name in text or anything to allude something is going on
- I'm just going to tell Cnut I'm going to dinner with you then we can go pick OM up
When I heard that, I waited for her to get home from dropping son off at paintball, told her we need to talk right now. I said that I know A is ongoing, why can't you just admit it and let me go, she denied and went in bathroom. I busted bathroom door open, told her I can't believe she's going to take friend to meet him, that I know everything and to just admit it. She continued screaming, denying and telling me to leave so she can shower. Back and forth until she finally said I'm not having an affair, I'm not doing anything, just talking to him, I said that is an A and I left her alone. I went in garage to get suitcases and had the idea to let the air out of her tires, so I started letting air out.
She came out and started pushing and hitting me to get me to stop, I just held my ground and kept trying, but couldn't do it with all the shoving so I said fine, I'll just slash the tires then. She said do it and I'll call the cops, I said go ahead and slashed two tires (cause she has one spare I did two). Then I went in room and started packing. Cops came, asked if I hit her, said no, but she hit me, asked if I had injuries, I said no even though I had a pretty big scratch on my arm (didn't want them to arrest her). Cop said your M, those are your tires, you can slash them, I said I know. Cop said your house, she can't keep you out, but we need someone to leave tonight, I said i was already packing. Had cousin come pick me up and I left, told her on way out I would pick up son.
I went and got son later, told him I know it seems crazy, but I broke bathroom door and slashed tires, just know that I would never touch you or mom, but I had good reason to do those things, I just can't tell you why. Son and I had good heart to heart, he understands, wants to stay close and will call me when needs anything or just to talk.
I left and stayed at cousins, came to house this morning while she's at school so I can grab stuff and repack, what I packed made no sense but I was spinning so couldn't think clearly.
So now I truly DB, I work on me, I find myself happiest when I'm away from her, so this should go pretty well. I have lots of family and friend support, cnuts is going to be ok (PSM)
PMA not PSM (positive state of mind, lol)
Sorry man. Really sorry. My WW wouldn't admit it either. It went down when she caught me fully dressed and putting on my shoes at 3am. She woke up and asked what I was doing. Said I couldn't do this any more, told she had one chance to tell me what was going on with her. She said she didn't know, but she knew she could not give me what I needed right now.
I said I know you are having an affair. She told me she wasn't. I said I know he works with you and I know what his job is, where he lived and what his name was. She said its not true. I said don't make me say his name just admit it. She was getting more nervous and denied it again. I said his name and told her to admit to me that she was having affair. Even then she said its not true, what is your evidence. I said if I open your phone right now and go to your texts with him, this is what I am going to see. Then she began crying and admitted it.
The WW will deny everything,even when faced with undeniable truth. I am so very sorry that it sounds like this was with your friend Cnut.
Man 'nut thats how I would have handled it if I didn't have a week to cool down between finding and disclosure.. It's rough when you find out and i knew at that point I was done...
I too find solice when WW is gone...
Oh man...I"m so sorry Coconut!! You will be ok in time...hang in there!!
I hate this for you man. I know some of the women on here will complain about your anger, but you had every right to be angry in my book.
She has shown no respect for you, S or the concept of family. I think you'll be fine too, the fact that you knew but had nothing concrete was obviously eating at you. She made the decision for you by having no respect. You're definitely in the right, and I'm sure you'll be ok....
Cnut!! [censored] to hear buddy. You knew something wasn't right and you did what you needed to make sure. That is totally understandable. What you didn't do right was lose your cool. But you know that. I understand completely though. You saw "red"
I've been there before. It's nearly impossible to control those emotions at that point. But at least you know now. That was your boundary. It is done. Time to move one with your life. You will be just fine buddy.
Don't try and put away all the emotions. Understand what they are, feel them and move on. Because locking it all up will only create more anger and resentment
One day at a time.
You got this
(((Coconut))). I'm so sorry to hear this. I gave her more benefit of doubt than any WW I can remember. She was good! Very slick! It enforces the fact that the WW and AP cannot continue to have any type of contact.
I think you need to stay as far away from her as possible, b/c actions and anger has been taken to another level. I don't know how you will manage to avoid her at work, but I hope you can. You don't need to have it in your face.
Protect yourself legally and financially. She has proven you cannot trust her.
Please don't get the idea to discontinue posting. We want to know how you are doing and what all is happening. You have been helpful to others, and we care and learn from each other's experiences. DB members have a unique bond. So, don't leave us, okay?
So sorry to hear this. Best of luck, and I agree with Sandi--keep posting.
Yes I third that...don't leave us, keep posting!!!
Coconut,
I am sorry she was still hiding it from you. The WW is cruel. Keep posting we are here for you man!
Coconut:
A tough blow. My guess is you have most of the info you need now. You can dust yourself off and move forward on your own terms.
Stay strong - our group is an small army who are behind you all the way.
Thank you all, your support is greatly appreciated.. I've been planning for this, I was 95% sure something was going on, but I didn't want to give up on M unless I knew for sure, so I suffered through knowing it was likely happening.
Sandi, I think she did try and leave him for awhile, I saw the change in her attitude almost back to who she was, but I saw her anger and resentment return, so I was pretty sure she was back at it, that's why the little things I saw had an impact on me, cause I just needed to know for sure.
Just so you all know, I didn't act out of rage last night, I was in control of my emotions, I told her to either open the bathroom door or back away because it wasn't going to stay shut either way, I tried letting the air out of tires rather than slashing because I wanted it to be an easy fix... My actions were thought out and calculated to achieve my two goals last night.
I'm ok, like I said I have all my family and friends supporting me, I'm not crying or tearful, I'm spending the day with my son and took him grocery shopping to make sure he has what he needs. I'm at piece knowing that I didn't give up, that I was and will continue working on me. I have gotten over my addiction to TV, Video games, I'm more social than I've been since we got M, I'm coming into my own.
Oh, and posting here and supporting others is part of my GAL, I'm not going anywhere... I realize it's meaningful to let others see how the journey is on this side of it all.
Had a good day, I spent most of the day with son at the house, but she came home from the academy 3 hrs early which caught me off guard, she brought two people from the academy with her to help with the tires. I was hoping to be gone before she showed up, so when they showed up I asked my son to go tell her I was leaving and have the person that parked behind me move, when they moved I went out of house to leave.
On my way out, she asked me if I knew where the wheel lock was, I just ignored her and left. I didn't like the way ignoring felt, I'm stronger and better than that, and I have no reason to be awkward in my own house... I'm not trying to DB to get her back, so I will work on just being comfortable with whatever situation I'm in, because, unfortunately I work with her.
I think you may need to plan on seeing son away from the house. At this time, you do not need any chance interaction with your W. The WW seems to always catch the H off guard, so you could at least prevent running into her there. Besides, everywhere you look, your eyes will be reminded of her.
I see a lot of H's fall into a situation with their STBXW and not know how to get out of it. It can start with something simple, like what happened when your W asked about the wheel lock. He starts having thoughts like, that isn't who he is, and he would answer a neighbor, or it's really for the sake of the kids, etc., etc. However, she's not getting the message that the H is through with her and she can't use him any more. So, what happens? She starts sending little texts, maybe asking where something is, or whatever. Then, before the H can blink, she's got him coming over to do something for her........or maybe she just needs a caring ear to listen. And he starts getting confused and wonder if she's sending mixed signals b/c she seems nice to him when she wants something.
Sandi, I went the opposite direction.. I spent a lot of time over the last two days contemplating my decision, and I don't want to save M, I want to move on. I came back to the house this morning, told her I am staying her till the end of August and will help her pay house costs till then, and I'm moving out and getting my own place in September.
I gave her clear explanation of my 3 boundaries:
1. He does not come in my house
2. He does not get introduced to my son
3. You do not go on dates with him while I live here
My consequence for breaking any of those is I will act on my anger and basically shame her to everyone if any of those are broken... And I also might have mentioned having to go meet him myself in there.
so sorry Coconut....
I have been following your sitch but haven't rung in as much as i would of liked to. You are getting so much advise and you seem to know where you are going.
Your gut feeling is your friend and you listened to it. I think you showed us a side of your W that made many here trust her. Sometimes we explain our own situations with the assumption everyone reading it is on the same thought pattern as us. I got the idea that your W is really trying and she could be trusted. My bad.
Only you know your W. You were so right.
I completely understand your frustration over the past few weeks.
I agree with Sandi. Stay away from your W. You can't trust her.
Also keep anger at bay. Don't lash out, even if its your property. You don't want a situation where the police come to the house if you are arguing with your W. She will play the victim and you being a man will be taken away. An arrest will have devastating consequences on your shared custody of your S. Don't let her push your buttons.
Mine tried everything to make me look bad, the police, pushing me, provoking fights. I stood tall. kept clear and in the end she was just so over the edge it all fell onto her. Your W seems more slick. I would not trust her and don't give her an inch.
you are a strong man, keep that up and continue your path my friend.
Irish.
Ok, she's hit a whole new level of cookoo... We were having a discussion/argument, she stated that she's done nothing wrong, so I said well what would you think if S knew what you'd done? And I almost fell down when she said I told him... Turned out she only told him she was talking to someone, but still, I couldn't believe that she would tell him anything.
My son is an extremely high achiever in academics and sports, he's going into 11th grade and has already taken 3 college courses, and the rest of his classes are all honors, he excelled in karate and as a 10th grader made it to regionals in wrestling... I told WW that she is mind [censored]!ng him and needs to stop, that he won't be able to perform at the level he needs to if she doesn't mellow out. She says I painted her in a corner and she didn't have anything else to say when he asked why I slashed her tires.. I told her she could have said I didn't want her to leave the house, or could of told him that the conversation should wait until her and I can talk to him together to explain, which would buy her time to think about the response... Grrrr, I'm so pissed at her, I really wish he was my biological son, cause she's losing control...
Sandi, I think she did try and leave him for awhile, I saw the change in her attitude almost back to who she was, but I saw her anger and resentment return, so I was pretty sure she was back at it, that's why the little things I saw had an impact on me, cause I just needed to know for sure.
Since you do intend to stick around I want you, specifically, to understand why I was so aggressively posting to you about the importance of "no contact" in your previous threads.
You SAW the change in attitude and could tell she WAS trying to leave him and be done with the affair. But withdrawal is a horrible thing for addicts AND waywards. It's like letting the drug addict hang out with their dealer. A few more days or weeks of "no contact" and the wife you witnessed emerging from the fog just might have gotten through withdrawal and actually committed to recovery; but, instead, she was permitted to maintain contact with the OM and BAM --- right back into their affairytale.
When you see this happen over and over again to multiple betrayed husbands on multiple forums it can get you a little riled up. It also riles me up to see other posters tell you that contact can or might be OK, you should just let it go and/or you should just trust her.
I'm not trying to be boastful or prideful that I was correct. I WISH I was wrong and even had you stood firm in your boundary of no contact you very likely would have ended up here anyway albeit without the few weeks of tortured lies, gas lighting and a charade thrown in.
You are perfectly within your rights to be completely done, file for divorce and never look back (I also suggest you tell your son the full and absolute truth about the situation ---in an age appropriate manner--- it's his life and family too and the truth is much better than whispers, your wayward wife's spin on things [stuff like "we just FELL out of love"], lies & half truths or worse him thinking HE did something wrong [kids think everything is their fault]. That being said, IF your wife does have a change of heart and comes to you willing then to do everything and anything to save your marriage, I suggest you MAY want to consider the possibility it could still work out IF you do it right. I'm not blaming you but you did condone and approve the disastrous risky plan of letting her continue a stupid volunteer job with the OM. Mr. Bond is the singular poster I've ever seen post affair discovery permitted continued contact work out for and he waited like 2-3 years for actual 'no contact' [when OM retired and his wife threw him a retirement party] and his marriage didn't really begin true recovery until after that.
As MWD says "no contact" is step one.
Cnut I feel so sorry for what you are going through.
I am worried about your anger right now though
I know you are upset and you have every right to be
But you seem to be carrying this "holier than thou" attitude right now
I can say that, because I've been there before
Like Sandi said you need to get away from there.
This is not the person you have been through your situation
I know you are better than this
cause she's losing control...
You're breaking bathroom doors bad slashing tires and SHES the one losing control?
Look. I get it that you're angry. Put in the same spot, I'm sure I'd be livid too. She cheated then comeback to "work on the M" all the while still keeping you as her plan B. That [censored]. Royally.
But come on. You need to get a grip on yourself. What exactly were you planning when you cut open her tires? You really think that will stop things? All you are doing is galvanizing them together. Whether you want a D or not, the more pressure you put on her and them, the closer they'll get. And THAT clearly seems to be something you can't handle. You are setting these "boundaries", but she's going to cross them. And really, I don't see them as boundaries around you at all. She can't go on a date until the D is final...? How does that impact you? That's all about YOU trying to control HER.
What can you do to bring your focus back on to the things you CAN control?
My friend, I agree with you.....to a degree. She seems to be in full on WW, selfish, looney tunes land. And her nonsense is driving you mad.
But CBT is right, you need to get a temporary place to stay. You're going to keep asking questions, and she's going to keep saying nonsense that's going to anger you further. You don't want that young man to see you get angrier than you already are. If his Mom is going batty, he needs you to calm down. You can do it brother.
The anger is there, it is real, but I need to learn to get past it. I am done with this M, it is over, but I will not move out until the house sells. In order for the rest of my life to work out with my step son, I need to get passed the anger with my WW. I was mean last night, I insulted, I belittled, I said everything I ever felt like I needed to say (son wasn't home), then I felt sick to my stomach. that is not the man I am or want to be, I want to, and will, work through it, I will lose my anger, I will drop the resentment, I will accept the outcome of this situation and find happiness. Not just with myself, but with the situation, I will find understanding in my part of all this, I will learn that there are consequences to actions, and my actions put her in a vulnerable position, I will learn to have compassion for her choices, since I was part of the problem that made her choose to do what she did.
But I will not run away, I will not live somewhere else before I have to, I will learn to overcome my anger, I will learn to respect the mother of my child, I must to make major events in his future enjoyable and comfortable. If I run from my issues now, I will just find them again down the road. I recognize what I must do, I see my fault in all this, I am focused on doing the right thing. And most of all, I will cherish the time I have left living with my son.
C-nut, dude, I feel you. This may be the hardest time in your life, so give yourself a break. You are spinning, desperately reaching to grab onto some control. My advice is the same. Take a deep breath and don't act on any emotions right now. I have been reading these threads for some time now and it seems consistent that these sitches with waywards often get worse before they get better. She is following a course and it is still early on.
I am years down the road from you and my sitch arguably got much, much worse. There has been many times over the last couple years that I have felt completely done and even resolved in ending my M. The reality is that the 6 months you have been in this circus is short compared to the many years you have known her and son and the years to come that you may still know them.
We all agree that you do not need to stay in this M. No one is even saying that you should. What are the stats on D? More than half of all marriages end in D? I don't know, but it's ok if that's what you want and plenty of people move forward to have great lives. I guess I still feel that you have nothing to lose by waiting but if there is a chance to save this M, if you file now, you could regret it in a few months or years. Also, if saving a relationship with your son is important, then your actions now need to reflect that.
As darkness said, there is a big difference between boundaries and trying to control her. Boundaries are for you and what you need in your Rs with people. You continue to try and control her and state that you are done, want D, will not put up with X, Y, and Z. What are you hoping to achieve by any of this? It's all more of the same from you and you are offering her more reason to justify her A and rewrite history and blame you. "C-nut is crazy, controlling, slashing my tires!" It's time to be a man only a fool would be so stop acting like a fool.
So my advice is the same. Stop acting on emotions and making bad choices. Stop trying to control her. Start DBing for YOU. Become the man you want to be and can be proud of for your son. Let her go. Drop the rope. Maybe one day she will do and say what you need and maybe she won't. Let your focus be on being the best C-nut you can be. You don't have to keep telling us you are done and want D. We get it. What we want to read now is what you are doing to reclaim your confidence and happiness in a life that may not include her.
Keep posting! You got this!!!
-Blu
That's was supposed to read "it's time to be a man only a fool would leave ..."
Another thing I want to share with you about things getting worse before they get better, is that IMO the A needs to die a natural death. This was one of the hardest things for me to accept! I tried hard to control him, just as you are, and I tortured myself, it didn't work, and more importantly I didn't feel good about myself.
In the beginning I thought if it continues at all I'm done. Next it was, if they get physical, I'm done. Then it was if they have sex. Also if they bring the kids around them (which never happened). Then it was he needs to leave her in X amount of time. He needs to do and say X, Y, and Z for me to EVER forgive him. And on and on and on ...
He ended his A because he always felt in his gut it was wrong, he was more miserable with her than before, he knew he was running from his problems and she just told him what he wanted to hear, he liked how she made him feel about himself but it wasn't about her specifically, he missed what we had, and he knew he owed it to himself to try. ... Why am I telling you this? Because me trying to control him only delayed his process and I was never a lighthouse. They had to die a natural death. He was at a low point in life and scared, and even more scared to come back because of my anger!
You know what? I could not and still cannot control anything this man does or says. More so, I don't want to. I want to only be in control of me and focus on me. That's it. I have been fortunate that he has naturally done/said what I have needed over time to find forgiveness, but that can always change, right?
Funny because we even had put in our marriage vows that being together each day is a choice. Choices are subject to change. You can't decide now what your life will be in 1, 2, or 10 years. But you CAN start making day to day choices that you will feel good about.
-Blu
I am done with this M, it is over, but I will not move out until the house sells.
Why? What are you proving, and to whom?
But I will not run away, I will not live somewhere else before I have to, I will learn to overcome my anger, I will learn to respect the mother of my child, I must to make major events in his future enjoyable and comfortable.
It's not running away! It is being smart! First of all, you are being stubborn, and you want to
control what she does with OM......and I think that's why you want to stay there. You don't want her dating him, bringing him to the house, or introducing S to him. If you aren't staying there.....then you can't claim this as boundaries....can you? Look, if you did not have such a hot temper .....then I might not be so concerned about you staying, but I think you are not being honest with yourself.
Second, how can you feel respect for her when she's cheating on you? Third, why are you taking chances, knowing how angry you are and how you've already reacted in anger? You have been with her all these years and have not learned to control your temper......and you think you are going to learn when she's cheating and the two of you fighting? This is not how you
learn to overcome, Coconut. I think you are feeding a bunch of b.s. to yourself. You are taking chances that aren't worth it.
Remove yourself from the situation at home, please. If you give her half an excuse, she's going to file charges (legit, or not) and if you get arrested....what do you suppose your S will think about you then? Go back and look at what you said previously about what it would do to you to be under the same roof and watching her.
Hey coco - Sandi's right - you're not exercising control.
You have no control over your WW, you can only control yourself. What she does, who she talks to, who she sleeps with is out of your locus of control.
The only thing that you control are your actions. Change your actions and your feelings will change. I CAN PROMISE YOU THIS!
Sit in a corner, talk to yourself, before you do anything stoopid. But be in control.
I get everyone's concern, but I'll say it again, I am in control.. I have not lost my temper at all since confirming she is still seeing OM.
It's been pretty uneventful, I spent the day with son yesterday, and took him to meet up with a bunch of family members last night at a Pokemon go hot spot. We had a lot of fun, it was quite a sight seeing hundreds of people walking around playing Pokemon...
My only interaction with W was me knocking on her bedroom door this morning since she was late getting up for work.
We can only trust that you are in control. And in control of YOURSELF. I think what everyone's concern is that you are going to try to impose these "rules" that you can't enforce, she is of course not going to follow them, and you are going to go off the edge and get yourself in trouble. You can't do this thinking she is going to abide by your rules. It's a recipe for disaster.
You slashed her tires so she couldn't leave the house and see him. I understand your anger in the moment. But even if S knew the whole truth, I don't think he would be OK with him doing such things to his mother. Maybe he understands this is a one time thing, but I wouldn't show him this is a consistent way of handling situations.
Please do your best to keep control, even if she violates your "rules" You don't want to end up with a restraining order.
Ok, she's hit a whole new level of cookoo... We were having a discussion/argument, she stated that she's done nothing wrong, so I said well what would you think if S knew what you'd done? And I almost fell down when she said I told him... Turned out she only told him she was talking to someone, but still, I couldn't believe that she would tell him anything.
I told WW that she is mind [censored]!ng him and needs to stop, that he won't be able to perform at the level he needs to if she doesn't mellow out. She says I painted her in a corner and she didn't have anything else to say when he asked why I slashed her tires.. I told her she could have said I didn't want her to leave the house, or could of told him that the conversation should wait until her and I can talk to him together to explain, which would buy her time to think about the response... Grrrr, I'm so pissed at her, I really wish he was my biological son, cause she's losing control...
This is an example of what I'm talking about. Having these types of discussions, tempers quickly rise. I can almost tell you what she told her S, b/c I did the very same thing. She is going to cover her tail. The more threatening type of statements you make, the worse you are making the emotional atmosphere. You need to stop talking to her.
You see her losing control. It will get worse when you antagonize her. Just being under the same roof will set off sparks. So again, why are you
really wanting to stay in that house, if you intend to get a D?
Did you legally adopt your son?
I'm still living in the house for a few reasons..
1. She has agreed to sell it, so I need to do some work on the house to get it ready to sell.
2. I'm 43 and don't want to crash at peoples houses, when I move out I want to get my own place and I can't do that until I don't have to pay the mortgage.
3. I want to live with my son as long as I can (within reason), and I think we will sell the house within 2 months or so, which is a reasonable amount of time to cohabitate.
I will not accept him meeting my son, and I do not want him in my house. I am not afraid of making a scene, and If I confront him it will be at the fire station and I will not get myself arrested. Although I might end up with a no trespassing at the station if I have to go there, I will make a very large impact without putting myself into legal trouble. Just a conversation.
Sandi, unfortunately adopting my son was not an option as his biological father is still in the picture, minimally, but there non the less. My son considers me his dad, as does both of our families.
As for discussions, I'm no longer interested in any R discussion, or any discussions with her other than when being civil and courteous when son is around, otherwise my intention is to be scarce. my GAL activities are out of control, I am being invited to more activities than I can possibly go to and will be out most of the time when son is not home. There are at least 3 days a week that my W is out of the house, so that will be easy.
When I post to people, I have to remember I am 8 years down the line with my ex having a remarriage to OW and that person being my daughter's stepmother. All I have to offer is my advice because I have been there. I know you may not be in a place to receive it, I know I was not in a place to receive a lot of advice I did, but I look back, eventually realized everyone was right, and I followed it.
So, take this with a grain of salt and pure experience. Me trying to save you some grief, if possible at all.
1) you can't legally stop your S from meeting OM. You can try in the way you mentioned at the firehouse which will make you 1) look completely out of control and dangerous, may land you with a restraining order and the outcome? Your W will continue to have your S around him if that's what she wants. So you will pretty much accomplish nothing except getting yourself in trouble. I couldn't stop OW from being around my 6 month old baby. I pretty much had no legal recourse. I could only stop her from being alone with her. Ex had to be around at all times. Who the heck actually knows if he abided by it, as my baby couldn't speak for herself. I COMPELTELY understand you not wanting him around him. But there is nothing you can do and I would really hate for your to get yourself in trouble because it isn't going to work anyways. No matter how much impact you think you are going to make, they will do what they want. trust me on this one. Your W may not want it to happen and you will be in luck.
Of course he shouldn't be in your house. That's enforceable. You can kick him out. I don't think either of them are that ballsy.
This may fall on deaf ears right now, but it's here one day if you really need it.
Not falling on deaf ears Ginger1. I have no legal rights over my step son, so I know I can't stop her from introducing him, but I wanted to make sure my wife knew that my son would know who she introduced him to if it happens. As for a restraining order, I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject, but I would imagine my behavior would have to be pretty extreme for that to happen, and I wouldn't need to be extreme to make a scene, just make comments. Who knows if it will ever happen, unlikely that it will. Anyway, I stated everything I'm going to my W about that, and I'm not going out of my way to check up on anything, so unlikely I would find out about it unless it was done in my face and blatantly obvious.
I will say this, I will post here if I find out about anything and plan on doing anything, and i'll take the 2x4's then. So for now what's been said is all that's going to be said and I have no current plans to do anything "crazy"...
As for a restraining order, I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject, but I would imagine my behavior would have to be pretty extreme for that to happen, and I wouldn't need to be extreme to make a scene, just make comments.
Hard to know for sure. Read qt's opening thread and you can see some of the legal trouble he got in for "standing in a doorway and raising his voice to be understood".
Not saying I agree or disagree, but my image is that the police are going to do what they can to protect the woman. Especially since you already have a broken door and slashed tires to your name.
Nuts, there are many stories in this forum where alleged slights against a wayward were enough to get orders against these women's husbands. I am not qualifying allegations here, just saying it comes down to one persons word against the other.
now, I believe there is a definite need for caution in the legal system when it comes to this topic because sometimes proof is impossible for a woman to establish when she IS being abused, so please keep that in mind when dealing with wife.
DDJ, glad to hear that your doing well, sorry to hear that in order for things to work out you had to D. I guess the best case scenario would be for a M to work out, for forgiveness to take place and for the MR to thrive going forward.
Not always possible due to so many factors, but I do believe that is the best case scenario. I also believe that thriving after D is certainly possible, life tends to also be like a rollercoaster, and with as far down as a chapter like this takes us, the upswing is gigantic, possibilities are endless if we take advantage of it.
My sitch took a dramatic turn a couple of weeks ago when I found out she was downloading A friendly apps, and then I confirmed just last Friday that the A continues.. it's been a crazy few days, but I'm leveling out, my support system jumped in and surrounded me, I've never received so much love from so many people.. I feel sorry for my WW, she's left family and 30yr friends and seems to only surround herself with new friends who fit "who she is" now...
Anyway, good to hear from you buddy, I'm glad you came through the otherside ok, I'm sure there is still some days of sadness for what is gone, and that's ok because no matter what, there were good years that can be missed..
I posted this on DDJ's thread and wanted to bring it here, because I realize that I don't like my W, close to hating my W, but I still occasionally shed a tear.. In writing to him I realized what I couldn't figure out when it was happening, why would I shed a tear for someone who I despise? It's not her that I cry for, it's what could of been, which is imagined based of off the good years that we had, well that I had at least.
Just ask yourself Coco - if you could marry her a second time, right now at the altar, would you?
ok, she has reached a whole new level of hate, resentment and disorientation to reality when it comes to me. I regret things that I said and did over those two or three days, but I've risen up from the ashes, dusted myself off and am standing as the man I want to be. I really feel bad for her, feeling the loss of my family is really hitting her hard, but I'm not getting drawn in anymore. I'm just validating, I'm done with thinking I have to convince her of reality, she's still trying to make me believe there is nothing going on..
I mentioned taking my son to her Moms for vacation and she's worried that we will just be sitting around bad mouthing her in front of son, I just told her that I understand why she would be concerned about that, and that the last thing I would want is for son to resent his mom. I told her that I just want to spend time with son enjoying the mountains, his grandparents company, and giving him a summer vacation with his dad for him to remember fondly, since he only has this summer and next before going away to school. That the last thing I would want to do on this vacation is dredge up our R and the pending D.
I also told her that I've let go, that I'm not verifying, checking up, or trying to control her in anyway. I feel great now that I've let go, and that her thinking I'm still doing those things is a form of me trying to control her, I told her that we are still M and I would hope that she would respect that, but that's her own decision to make and up to her.
The only thing that bothers me now is her anger towards me whenever we communicate, it makes it really hard to discuss logistics and son when she's always spewing, but I will just worry about my words and actions.. I'm feeling much better, I'm happy for the most part and really enjoying my life that I got back.
Good space Coconut! Let her live her life.
My XWW spewed all the time. They can't believe that we don't want them anymore - look at how awesome they are, how can anyone not want them.
DB is about being the best you and that best you does not need a spewing WW. Hopefully one day she'll stop spewing and may want back in. Until then, DO YOU.
The easiest way to put out that fire is simply not to throw any more logs on.
XW was super nasty at many times, crazy town. But for 20 months now or so I have given her nothing to react to. Sure, she can be upset about how things are working out, or who I am as a person, or how I do something with the kids, or whatever she wants. But the point is I don't react to it, I just respond to what demands a response with a couple of sentences, she's playing the game by herself. It's hard to keep an argument going when no one is arguing back, at least for more than a year or so
Also I've shared this before, I got a DB coach, a lawyer, and an IC. I consulted them before making any major changes, be they legal, financial, whatever. I never reacted emotionally, everything I did was thought out, balanced, and endorsed by my team of professionals. It made it very easy for me, whenever XW spewed about something I could just laugh to myself because it almost wasn't me doing it, it was a board of directors with decades of experience advising me. Not that I'd tell her that, see last paragraph. No, I'd just let her spew and do my thing.
Anyway, I said it best in the beginning. Distance, detachment, and absolutely no emotional reactions or games and eventually the fire dies out. You won't get to be the good guy in her eyes or in her circle of friends, you won't save your marriage, you won't get any apologies...but you won't have to deal with a crazy ex and your kids will have a better life.
The easiest way to put out that fire is simply not to throw any more logs on.
Also I've shared this before, I got a DB coach, a lawyer, and an IC. I consulted them before making any major changes, be they legal, financial, whatever. I never reacted emotionally, everything I did was thought out, balanced, and endorsed by my team of professionals. It made it very easy for me, whenever XW spewed about something I could just laugh to myself because it almost wasn't me doing it, it was a board of directors with decades of experience advising me. Not that I'd tell her that, see last paragraph. No, I'd just let her spew and do my thing.
This is golden advise for all LBS reading it.
Print it.
Study it
Ingrain it in your mind, heart and actions.
This is how you do it.
Plain
Simple
Golden instructions for handling the anger.
Zues, my man, I love what you share.
A very wise man you are.
Very very wise Zues - I needed that too - i brought on the fire of satan himself this morning. But feeling, dealing and healing.
Lost my family
Found Health Issues
Will not get to live with my Son
Will live in a empty house
May lose my dogs
Retirement won't be as comfortable
yeah, feeling a little down today. So hard to believe the turn life has taken in the last 4 months.
Cnut,
You are in my prayers man.
Take a few moments for yourself
Be kind and gentle with yourself in these sad moments as it can be easy to fall into a state of rumination.
Check out the emotional 1st aid Ted Talk by Guy Winch as it is one that helps me remember the work needed to heal.
You have been running on high octane adrenaline driven emotions for a bit. The withdrawal can be a little painful. But you can strengthen yourself in this state.
Be well today and may you create some moments of peace and calm for yourself.
Hey coconut, i'm also not having a great day, but the glass should always be full...
Lost my family - you might find more happiness?
Found Health Issues - you might live a healthier lifestyle?
Will not get to live with my Son - you can still share your love with him, even if it's for a shorter time
Will live in a empty house - You might find peace in your own space, like doodler. I also will have a big 3 bedroom place to myself, thinking of getting a pool/snooker table for the spare room
May lose my dogs - you will learn to love new dogs? You're not John Wick
Retirement won't be as comfortable - You can't look that far ahead!!!!
OK, so focus on right now, find the silver lining in your cloud right now, it's not Armageddon!
so shared the above posting via text to W, not sure why exactly, but I guess to get a response or maybe to guilt her, but ehh.. Her response:
I'm sorry. Whether you believe it or not or care, this has been very difficult for me as well. I've been very angry & it has stopped me from processing some of what's happening. Last night when you told me that you are moving out of state, it hit me pretty hard.
Hey coconut, i'm also not having a great day, but the glass should always be full...
Lost my family - you might find more happiness?
Found Health Issues - you might live a healthier lifestyle?
Will not get to live with my Son - you can still share your love with him, even if it's for a shorter time
Will live in a empty house - You might find peace in your own space, like doodler. I also will have a big 3 bedroom place to myself, thinking of getting a pool/snooker table for the spare room
May lose my dogs - you will learn to love new dogs? You're not John Wick
Retirement won't be as comfortable - You can't look that far ahead!!!!
OK, so focus on right now, find the silver lining in your cloud right now, it's not Armageddon!
I realize it isn't / wont be that bad, I was just documenting my mood swing and my feelings of loss...
These came from feeling down in the dumps, I understand your responses but they are not how I feel most of the time, even now, just a few hours later I am feeling much better.
Enjoy the swing Coconut, but don't look that far ahead, is what i'm saying. Look at what you have each day. Look at the opportunities that you have to be more you, have fun and live a full life.
Live in the moment and tomorrow will take care of itself.
So yesterday went fine, after my morning down in the dumps feeling that went away within a couple of hours, I had a good day at work. Went to IC right after work, she was our MC but I told her the A continues so MC is stopping and I changed the appointment to IC.
I filled her in on what has happened since our last MC when we agreed to do a monogamous S, how that night went, my decision to leave the house and then my decision to move back in, how our interactions are now, and most importantly talked about our S. I've let S know that he can go to counseling if he wants someone to talk to, and he is going to be talking to his Sensei (on his own), and counselor said don't force counseling on him unless he starts to show behavior changes.
We also discussed letting my mom know about A. I don't want my MOM thinking I gave up on my M after 4 months of troubles, but I also don't want her to treat my W differently to where it may change the way my S feels about his grandma. Counselor understood my desire to tell my Mom the truth, but said I probably want to handle it as gently as possible for sons sake. I am going to offer my W the opportunity to go with me, I know she wont but I think it would be good if she did, so I will make the offer.
While at counseling and talking about everything, I realized just how free I felt, it was the first time I've gone to counseling without tearing up once, and I just felt good that I no longer have to wonder if something is going on. The inability to trust someone I wanted to be with was killing me, and now that I have released that desire, I feel great. Like I said yesterday, I still mourn what I lost, but I no longer want her and don't mourn our MR.
After counseling, I went home, she came home and we greeted each other, she went in her room, and I left to go meet up with a friend for dinner/drinks, and then we went fishing.. I got home about 1030pm and went to bed, no further interaction with W, other than I checked to make sure she was awake before I left for work this morning.
Why are you her alarm clock?
I checked on her because it's what I wanted to do... I don't expect anything from her for doing it, but I would feel like an azz if she came into work late and I knew I could have simply knocked on her door to wake her up. Actually I'd feel like an azz if I thought about knocking on her door but didn't because I didn't want to do something nice. I don't hate her and I'm not DBng for her, I did it for me.
I'm sorry. Whether you believe it or not or care, this has been very difficult for me as well. I've been very angry & it has stopped me from processing some of what's happening. Last night when you told me that you are moving out of state, it hit me pretty hard.
I guess I missed something. She is moving?
Now she decides she can leave the fire fighting?
FWIW, I think it is important to grieve your loss,, Coconut. If you don't have a period of grief, then aren't you just pushing it down farther inside? You don't have to feel bad for mourning. ((Coconut))
Your mom will need time to process her feelings. I don't think it's fair to take your W along to break the news to your mom. I have been in those shoes, and I doubt I am the only mother who feels that no matter how old her son is..........I still have feelings that a mother has when her child is hurt badly by someone else, especially his W. Years ago my daughter's H had treated her very badly. When they made up, I was still angry at him. She said if she could forgive him, why couldn't I. My answer was, "B/c I am not the one in love with him, and b/c he
hurt my child". Eventually, I was able to move on, but it took time. You are your mother's child.
Give your mom the
right to feel anger and hurt toward the betrayal of your W. It is normal. Having your W with you when you tell mom could make matters worse. Don't try to force any feelings on your mother, one way or another. Don't try to protect your WW and encourage mom to continue feeling the same as when W was her DIL. This is not the time to tell your mother how to feel about it. You are wanting to hand everything to her in one dose and control how she feels toward your W and S? Could you have been expected to learn what you did at once and it not affect your feelings toward your W? Give your mom some time to process it.
This is part of the fallout, Coconut, and you cannot
control these situations. You cannot control the relationships between other people. I understand wanting to protect your S........I really do. But please, don't give your mom all this bad news and then tell her how you want her to feel.
Sandi,
Quote:
I'm sorry. Whether you believe it or not or care, this has been very difficult for me as well. I've been very angry & it has stopped me from processing some of what's happening. Last night when you told me that you are moving out of state, it hit me pretty hard.
That was my W response to me, about how she felt about me telling her I am looking for work out of state.
Thank you for the advise on telling my mom and letting her process it on her own, I hadn't thought of it that way.
So my son was getting ready to go to the movies with my son, after showering and get ready I realize he is wearing a firefighter shirt from W station. It is the same shirt I first saw in her texts to OM on bomb drop. I saw a text of her in nothing but the shirt, and said that she only had underwear under there, and what's under there was reserved just for him...
Real Fn nice. I'm taking him to my moms tonight for family game night, and I doubt he will change before we go.
So I text W that I can't believe she bought him that shirt, that was a cruel thing to do.
Why did you text her? You have nothing to gain from that exchange.
I know it must seem to cruel to you. But I would bet that did not even cross her mind. She got her son a shirt from the fire station. I can definitely see how it would be a trigger and upsetting to see. But I highly doubt that was what went through her mind when she got her son a t shirt. Of course you think it should have went through her mind, because it went through yours and left such an impact on you.
I almost didn't let my D go to my ex's wedding. Last minute I did, and it was very painful to me. The following Easter, he sends her to my house in the very dress she wore to their wedding. Kicked me in the gut. Tears came out. My ex could be pretty inconsiderate, but I don't even think he thought about it. I think he just put her in the fancy dress for easter. Part of me wanted to say something, the other part knew nothing would be gained from it. So, I didn't do it. It didn't stop me from enjoying Easter with my baby. Don't let a T-shirt make you react when there is nothing to be gained from it, and enjoy your family game night with Son!!!
So my son was getting ready to go to the movies with my son, after showering and get ready I realize he is wearing a firefighter shirt from W station. It is the same shirt I first saw in her texts to OM on bomb drop. I saw a text of her in nothing but the shirt, and said that she only had underwear under there, and what's under there was reserved just for him...
Real Fn nice. I'm taking him to my moms tonight for family game night, and I doubt he will change before we go.
So I text W that I can't believe she bought him that shirt, that was a cruel thing to do.
C-nut my friend.
Detach.
I chuckle a little bit each time I read your posts. Now don't take that the wrong way, as it is not meant to be disrespectful. I chuckle because you provide such great insight and advice for so many others while they struggle here, but you don't always put your own advice into actions.
You know the saying around here, actions not words.
I have followed your story here and I know that you have ridden the roller coaster from hell. I think we both know you have put on the gas for the coaster on some occasions, but you still know what is the right approach and action. Those damn emotions of yours keep getting the best of you don't they?
You have made a decision for how you are proceeding. It is one many agree with, and those that don't at least understand why you are doing it.
My simple advice here for your sanity, the good of all your loved ones and those around you, and your ability to heal and become a better man for what you have been throgugh, is DETACH.
This is the answer to controlling those emotions.
Ginger1 is spot on.
Folks are typically to selfish in this life to really be thinking about you when they do things.
She probably did not even think about it. And more likely did not think about it in the same manner as you did here.
But let's say for the sake of argument she did it just to get at you.
Well, then your reaction was mission accomplished for her.
WW-1 c-nut-0.
Detaching would have meant you chose no reaction to your hurt feelings. You would have gotten over it just the same and moved on to the next day. Then it would have been C-nut-1 WW-0
Detaching is a choice of actions when others words or actions evoke emotions.
Again, I share my thoughts out of pure respect for you as a fellow DB brother here in this community, and look forward to seeing you rise above it all, even if the coaster still has some big dips in the ride for you. I just pray that you can take your foot off the gas for a bit. Future Coconut will appreciate it if you do.
I told my family about the sitch last night, had everyone together at game night (my S ended up not going), I just told them all while they were all together. I told them about my depression, my drinking, my disengaging from W and life, that I wasn't doing anything on my own. That it left a void in W and she had an affair with at least kissing, I didn't know if there was more. I let them know I found out 3 months ago, tried making it work, and that I confirmed last Friday it is still ongoing. I told them that their R with W is theirs and they choose how they feel, and not to base it on me, just to remember about my S and that he will still be in my life.
Mom was sad, but seemed to take the news ok.
My heart goes out to you brother. It could not have been an easy thing to do, it took alot of courage. Sounds like you handled it perfectly.
Well done Cnut!
I know that must have been so hard. How was it for you?
It sounds like your family took it well and I think you said it perfectly
Good job
Any more communication with W?
I know the fire shirt thing was tough. Remember though that there will be many many triggers. It's about how you handle them
It was a tough thing to sit in front of my close family (10 people) and bare my soul, explain my faults and show compassion for my WW, but I was proud of myself for doing it.
They have seen the positive changes in me, I assured them that I'm at peace with this and not to worry about me, but that I appreciate all the reaching out everyone has done and I hope it continues.
Through all of it, I didn't shed a single tear, it's amazing what a difference a couple of months make, there is no way I could have made it through all of it even 2 months ago.
It's kind of sad actually, Now that I'm no longer wondering or caring what WW is up to (which really happened when I decided it's over), I wonder if I'm making the right choice, I wonder if I gave up to easy, I wonder if I'm trying to move on to soon... Now that every minute isn't torture, I wonder if I should just agree to a long term in house S and let my soon stay here for the two years and finish high school. I'm not sure I'd want to ride it out for two years, but for the first time I feel like I could.
It's a good feeling to be in control of ones self like that. I know it's a very personal decision to stay or not. What I can say is that being physically apart and on my own, accountable to no one but myself, being able to choose when to see my W, has been one of the best things that has happened. I really have a chance now to get to know myself, to grow and to (mostly unsuccessfully) detach from the outcome. I wish I had done it sooner to be honest with you. Everyone's sitch is different though, just my two cents.
That had to be so tough to bare it all out there. I really like that you took ownership in your part of the whole thing. As you said, you left a void and unfortunately someone came in and filled that. It $ucks!!! It really really does.
She also must take responsibility for what she has done. Yes you did your part, but so did she. I think it's important that you recognize your faults. Don't dread on them, but understanding why it got to where it did is very important in my opinion
Because that's the part that you can work on. The part that hopefully makes you the best Cnut and father that you can be.
In the end only you will know if you want it to work or not. Only you can decide if you want to give it a shot. You can't force her to try as you know.
That's why my recommendation would be to just live in the moment and do not make any drastic decisions. I'm not sure how you approach the W or even if you do about that right now. I think just be there and be working on the new Cnut that will be in a new marriage. That new marriage may be with your current W or someone in the future
I will say this from my own experience. Time does heal that. The anger does subside. Will I forget that she was with someone else? No I won't. But I'm no longer angry and it doesn't upset me
Cnut it's gonna take time either way, so don't overreact to either side of the situation and really really focus on keeping your emotions in check
You got this
I say well done with a tough situation.
You did good sharing in a manner that will let the family decide how they will feel about it.
That is tough to do.
Sharing it by focusing on you and showing compassion, this the best way to do this type of thing for sure in my book.
So not much going on between W and I. Although, there was a little bit of an episode. I was in my room MBR, I moved her out awhile back and most of her stuff is out of the bedroom, although she does have a couple of drawers of stuff in there.
Anyway, I was sitting in bed listening to something with noise cancelling headphones on, when all of sudden WW busts through the door (like literally knocked locked door open with shoulder). I was a bit surprised by this, took off the headphones and asked what was going on, she was hysterical furious, yelling at me because she had been banging on the door to get in and wouldn't open it, and that she needed to get something. I told her that I was listening to something and she said she didn't believe me and left.
today I text her and asked if she told son that I didn't hear her knocking because I didn't want him thinking I was locking her out of the room and wouldn't open the door. She said that she hadn't talked to him about it because she didn't know if he heard her trying to get in and didn't want to bring it up if he didn't hear.
Anyway, at least it's interesting living in crazy town, never a dull moment. Looking forward to my week road trip with son next week.
Scratch that post where I said I feel like I could cohabitat for 2 years, I need to get out. I am having a very hard time controlling my anger, and I'm finding myself going back to a depressed state. It started when I saw my son wearing the fire fighter shirt, and then flamed up when my son started hanging out at the fire station... I know it means nothing to her that my son goes there, and she couldn't care less if he hangs out with OM, but I wonder how my son would feel knowing the truth... But I don't want him to know the truth about his mother, so I just need to go, and soon... I'm not equipped to deal with the betrayal I feel, and I need to get away from it all.
Cnut!
I think based on what you are saying it would be a good idea for you to move out of the house. You don't want to become that guy and you don't want your son seeing that whatever the reason is. I know you feel like your son deserves to know the truth, but do you really want him viewing his mom on that light right now. Let him find out when the time is right. Not sure doing it out of anger is the right move
Just get out of there and take some time and let things cool down
Yes, you need to go......and quickly.
Have you discussed moving out with an L? Move out but do it in a way that doesn't hurt you later.
Coconut.
Sh!tty times mate. Very similar things happened with my WW. You must distance yourself from her. If you can't when in the same room, do it physically. I promise you that she will not be able to get into your head if you move away but you must keep that contact with your S - it will actually improve massively (or that's my HO) Road trips etc show you both you can make it work better without the negative influence of the alien that spews at you to make you react. Get out of her way if you can't keep her out if your head. It is important that you really do not communicate unless it is positive now. Of course you must communicate about children and do but don't fall into the trap of excusing contact to reconnect by making up some child based reason to talk/text. Her modus operandi may well be to make you react now. Don't loose that battle over your self control. If you can, stop drinking or certainly cut back and don't contact her drunk or hungover.
Personally I found when she went (I could control myself - I had years of practice, but it was slowly turning me to booze) I was instantly happy. The monster was gone! So we're the kids - but when they returned, they were all mine without the monster in the background brooding and wanting to fight, shout or most commonly rage.
I feel your pain. A final point don't forget to pack your soul and your b@lls. Make sure she sees you with them both firmly reattached to you. You do that so she sees you again. Trust me, after a while, you may not want her back - perhaps for a while and certainly not until she changes. Try not to totally cut her out though. You will need your soul for that. As if there is a way you can try to find it. Your b@lls are ther for boundaries.
So that's it b@lls and soul. Good luck. You are doing the right thing.
Suggest you take that L advice yes. Getting away for a few days you can definitely do. To get space. Do that. Use the one to speak to a L. Just tell her you need a few days away and have been invite to (insert excuse here). Get some space though. You need to cool your jets mate. She will fire them up again when you interact so you must keep calm. However she rages, shouts etc or what is said does not matter just focus one thing - perhaps she has a slightly hairy lip or her face ha all twisted when she shouts or she needs to pluck her eyebrows. With me it was the foaming at the mouth (literally) - I remember thinking wow. I wonder if she has Rabies. Probably not perfect DB advice but it helped me to detach from what was being said. Learn not to react to a provocation. I don't care how but you have to become the soldier being shouted by the Sergent Major where you can smell his breakfast, taste his cigarettes and feel his spit. Yet you don't fear him. You just stay strong and controlled. Learn to do this ragardless. For you and your S. You will need this skill.
Take care. You can and will do this. Your life will be so, so much better in due course. Onwards and upwards.
Reread my post and want to make something clear, my anger is being expressed with words, no violence or nothing even close... Mostly texts since I've pretty much been avoiding her, and usually one of us is out of the house.
I'm going on a week road trip with son in 4 days, I'll do that, and when I return I'll determine if I'm going to move out and where to. She's not going to be able to save enough refinancing to keep the house, so it's being put up for sale. I don't think it will take long to sell, so everything should be done in 6 - 8 weeks, after the closing we will file.
My anger really flared up earlier today, I'm not sure what triggers it, but I truly believe I feel like it gives me some sort of control over a sitch that I have no control... All I know is I was ready to go pay a visit to OM, even though I know that would be a bad idea for me in the long run, it just felt so right at the time I was thinking about it.
For now, we are both home right now and being civil, and she's heading out to a friends for a celebration since her friends mom has beat cancer for the second time.
I met OM. Kept my cool. But I do advise it at all. Angers not a bad thing but you can control. I went through that phase too. It's hard but going for a 20 min run same route every day when I was messed up really helped. A walk anything. Also mindfulness apps (free ones calm and headsapace there are other) are really good too. Anger is a feeling it's not a choice. But how you react to it is a choice i found it helped me control it. I hope it helps mate. Keep your chin up and stay strong and focussed as much as possible. If things get tricky to for a walk or a drive. Get some space. Take care.
So I'm happy to say my anger has subsided, I'm content with the fact that I have no control over my WW, and I honestly couldn't care less what she's doing.. Mi don't check to see when she comes and goes, don't ask any questions and have no idea what she's up to...
But the thought of her dragging my son into this mess really riles me up... I really feel bad for him, he won't talk to either of us about how he's feeling, but he's totally changed his routine, and spends a lot of time away from home.. I think he may have broke up with his girlfriend, because he never goes over there anymore, but I tried to to talk to him twice about it and he's not talking... I'd like for him to talk to me about it if he wants to, but I'm ok if he doesn't want to.. I'm detached from him, so I can sit back and just watch and hope for the best for him, but I don't feel emotionally tied to it... Wish I was that way with my WW, cause although I don't care anymore, it's because I hate / am disgusted by her... I will love my son no matter what, I don't know if I'll ever even like my W ever again.
But anyway, son and I leave in 3 days for our road trip, I'm really looking forward to it, it will be fun to get away and leave this mess behind.
WW text me today that she talked to friend realtor and wanted to know when I would be available to meet with her to discuss putting house up for sale, I said just schedule asap... She commented ok then... I told her I just want to get it going, only thing I care about is commission % and list price, that she can meet with her and as long as numbers are good I'll sign off... She said still in mood.. I replied, no mood, just don't want to hold it up, I'll be there if I'm available...
I've been applying for jobs in mountain area I was trying to move to when I met W, I'm moving as soon as I get an offer, gonna get on with the life I always wanted and put on hold when I got M, really looking forward to it...
Coconut. Sorry you are having a hard time of it.
Perhaps during your road trip your son will open up. You will both have bonding time together and can use this time to get space and connect. It will be a great time. Try to switch off from your sitch if you can. Be strong, you are doing a great job. These feelings will subside, the resentment etc will fade and you will have the opportunity to have a better relationship with your W - if you choose that. You might not want that right now but give yourself time. Be kind to yourself. You deserve that. You are trying your best, to the the best Dad and the best version of you. It's hard to do the right thing, let alone think the right thing. Hope you have a great road trip. Make some great memories for you and your S.
So strange, up until know my emotions were swerling, but they made sense to me... When I thought we were piecing, I understood how the anger would show up after we were latched back together (so to speak), but the emotions now just don't make sense...
Most of the time I am truly indifferent, but occasionally I'll glance at the key rack to see if she's at home, I don't really care, but when I look I think it's more out of habit, but I do find myself a little relieved if the keys are there, so I guess I do care... Just so confusing
She text me today, said "for what it's worth I really do miss my best friend"... Ok, that was a total mind fck, because I went through all of the emotions.. All the things I wanted to reply played through my mind, and each reply represented a different emotion:
- who treats best friend like you did
- I'm sure you'll make plenty of new best friends
- oh do you, coulda fooled me
- yeah, best friend misses you
Ok, so mostly anger oriented responses popped in my head, but non the less, her simple text got my emotions going, and I don't like being under her control like that.
I hate that to when you think you have it under control and they say something like that......just curious did u reply???
I'm still here and keep up with your sitch. I don't post because I can't think of much new to say. This is hard stuff and I feel for you.
I still see that you put a lot of pressure on yourself and are still mostly spinning. When I read posts that you are feeling depressed and down, I am somewhat relieved, because I see that as a healthy part of the grieving process. The end of M is like a death. When I read "most of the time I am truly indifferent," I worry about you. I see this as a giant step back.
First of all, nothing in your posts show indifference. Indifference happens after detachment, and both things only happen over time. Perhaps years. What I would like to see for you is the first steps to get yourself towards detachment. You continue to focus on what you are feeling each moment and what you need to do to move on.
I think it would behoove you to stop analyzing things and start living again. Baby steps. Start doing things you enjoy more. Invest more time with other people and make new friends. Don't worry about what she is doing or what the next step is--selling house, D, moving--these things take time to sort out and you have changed your mind several times. It's okay not to have all the answers today.
Start letting go. Give your mind a rest. I think you will feel better too. Take all the time you need. Then you can start detaching naturally instead of "forcing" yourself to by talking about it or taking action. Unfortunately those have the opposite effects. It's like dieting--the more guy think about not eating, the more hungry you feel.
Step one. Acceptance. Just stay there for a while.
Another loving 2*4
Blu
She text me today, said "for what it's worth I really do miss my best friend"... Ok, that was a total mind fck, because I went through all of the emotions..
Did you forget how WW's want to hang onto the H as their best friend? I believe it hurts them worse to realize the H could care less about being her friend, than losing him as her H. Have I mentioned that they are crazy? All logical reasoning has vacated the mind.
She text me today, said "for what it's worth I really do miss my best friend"... Ok, that was a total mind fck, because I went through all of the emotions..
Did you forget how WW's want to hang onto the H as their best friend? I believe it hurts them worse to realize the H could care less about being her friend, than losing him as her H. Have I mentioned that they are crazy? All logical reasoning has vacated the mind.
Coconut,
I heard the exact same thing over and over again in June/early July. S8803andi is correct. It did not stop until I cut it off in mid July. I flat out told her "I did see myself as your friend when we were lovers, but not now, I am not your buddy."