I think I'm over 100 posts on my thread, so moving to a new one. Here's the link to the first:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2674615&an=As some of the other members have done, here is a summary of my situation. Some details may be new for the group.
Been married for almost 21 years. After my wife got pregnant with twins in year 5 we started to drift apart, the focus was no longer on each other or the marriage. I began tring to push intimacy that was no longer there. When that didn't work, I developed an addiction to porn and to combine that with what I now realize were unrealistic expectations for what a marriage should be really started to ruin the trust my wife had for me. My actions continued off and on for the next 15 years, pushing here further and further away.
In January of this year, after taking some time away from a job she got burned out on, she took a part time job at a retirement home in our community, working 2 days a week. This is where she met the OM. In late March, early April, I began to suspect something was wrong/going on as my wife would leave our bed and go downstairs after she thought I was asleep. After a week of this happening every night, I snooped on April 5 and accessed her phone to find text messages that at that point turned my life upside down.
I confronted my wife about it and that is when I received the ILYBNILWY speach. She asked for some time to work through her feelings that she didn't know what the relationship with the OM was. She told me that at that point it had been texting and phone calls, but that there had also been a kiss or two, but nothing more.
As the next couple of months unfolded, she started going to the OMs house as it's not far from where we live, and that's where it turned into a full PA.
I realize now that I have been a doormat for the past couple of months, letting her do what she wants without consequences in hopes that she would wake up and realize what she is giving up. While she's gone back and forth several times, realizing she needs to end it, that there is no future with the OM, she continues to let him back in.
During this time, I have established some goals for myself and worked on GAL activities, spending more time with my kids, changing the way I dress, how I'm groomed, exercising a lot more and finding my faith again.
I still have a lot of work to do on myself and am working on identifying the boundries and consequences that I now know I need to start implementing and enforcing.
as you move forward too, do you think it would be possible to list any goals you are working towards, your current GAL activites and any 180's that you have been implementing?
it will be easier for us to get a better to understand where YOU are at if you do.
doesn't have to be right now, because I am sure you are busy planing your Holiday weekend activites right now for you to enjoy!!!
Goals:
Get out at least 1 time a week with a friend or co-worker
Spend more quality time with my kids
Exercise 3-4 times per week
Lose weight (down 23 pounds since BD)
Rediscover my faith.
GAL activities:
Get out of the apartment with the kids to see a movie, see a baseball game, etc.
For exercise go somewhere other than the gym to run
Attend work events that I used to skip (professional groups, networking events, etc.)
Go to church once a week.
I've also been reading - the Divorce Remedy, Love Must Be Tough, and am currently reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. Not to mention reading as much as I can hear, trying to learn as much as I can from other members and seeing what I can apply to my situation.
As far as weekend activities, will probably be pretty quiet. I am taking my 3 youngest daughters to the College Home Run Derby in Omaha on Sunday. It's a fun event we go to every year and they have a huge fireworks show after the event. Don't know yet what we might do on the 4th itself, may play that one more by ear.
Hope everyone has a fantastic weekend!
lfm,
It sounds like you're going to be a busy guy. Have fun!
Hope everyone had a good weekend.
Mine started off a bit rocky. Found myself venting about everything to my WW on Friday night. I know this pushed her away, and I feel like I'm back at square one in terms of how she views me as I think in her mind it wiped away the changes she had seen in me, making her feel like it was just temporary.
I was able to recover a bit on Saturday, went to see a movie with my W on Saturday - she asked, I was definitely not pursuing it. On Sunday took my 4 daughters to the College Home Run Derby, while my wife was at work. Girls had a lot of fun, and suprisingly, my W went home after work and was in bed asleep when I got home. We spent most of the day together as a family on the 4th.
I need to continue doing my thing, GAL, work on goals and continue to learn to shut up and walk away when I get frustrated or feel I need to vent.
Mine started off a bit rocky. Found myself venting about everything to my WW on Friday night.
It happens, no one is perfect and it's all about being able to live in the present, and recognize when you're heading down the wrong tracks, and then stop the train immediately before it derails completely. I used to obsess about my "mistakes" and have come to realize there is no "one particular moment" that is going to make or break the sitch. Transformation takes time.
I need to continue doing my thing, GAL, work on goals and continue to learn to shut up and walk away when I get frustrated or feel I need to vent.
Learning to shut and walk away was one of the things I had a hard time with in the beginning too. The more you detach, the more easier it is, and often times - leads to other discoveries you weren't even looking for.
Sounds like you had a good 4th weekend.
So, what are those goals and GAL's that you're working on?
Reposting goals and GAL's from up above:
Goals:
Get out at least 1 time a week with a friend or co-worker
Spend more quality time with my kids
Exercise 3-4 times per week
Lose weight (down 23 pounds since BD)
Rediscover my faith.
GAL activities:
Get out of the apartment with the kids to see a movie, see a baseball game, etc.
For exercise go somewhere other than the gym to run
Attend work events that I used to skip (professional groups, networking events, etc.)
Go to church once a week.
It happens, no one is perfect and it's all about being able to live in the present, and recognize when you're heading down the wrong tracks, and then stop the train immediately before it derails completely. I used to obsess about my "mistakes" and have come to realize there is no "one particular moment" that is going to make or break the sitch. Transformation takes time.
I completely agree with betterm. In fact, a 180 for most of us would be to purposely bungle-up everything. We should all have a bungle-up day that pushes the WW into such a rage that she can't function.
My bungle up day will be after I am D and move to the same city she lives.
My bungle up day will be after I am D and move to the same city she lives.
"Honey, I'm home!"
Thanks guys! Reading the last couple of posts made me laugh.
Last night barely had any contact with my W, had to work late, got home, she was at the pool. Decided to go work out, got back about an hour and a half later, ate dinner, showered, watched tv for a bit, but then we both started getting ready for bed. i sat down on the bed first to watch tv, she was pacing back and forth and kept looking at her phone (I assume looking for texts from OM). As she seemed frustrated, I got up, grabbed my tablet and went into another room.
Got my youngest to bed and then went back into the MBR watched a little bit of tv, rolled over and tried to go to sleep. Barely said a word to her all night outside of small talk - "Thanks for having dinner ready" things like that.
We'll see how tonight goes.
Haven't posted anything for a couple of days. Had a good GAL night last night, took my three youngest daughters out to the house that's just about finished and then took them out for ice cream. Left my wife by herself, knowing she was going to get out on her own.
The girls had a lot of fun with the ice cream, and it got them out of the apartment for a while.
I hope everyone has a great end to the week and a great weekend!
Well, stepped in it a couple of nights ago. Got sucked into a relationship discussion, where my wife indicated there is no future for us and that she feels zero connection to me anymore. This was said with much more anger and venom than I have heard previously.
I did not do a good job of handlilng this and indicated after we move into the new house in a couple of weeks that I would start working on finding an attorney to start divorce proceedings and that we need to start having discussions with the kids to let them know that we are going through some struggles and trying to figure things out.
At this point I'm not sure exactly what to do as I don't want to get a divorce but know that I've put that out there and indicated a time frame, I feel like I need to follow through on it. I guess I said it just to see how my WW would respond. I'm sure others out there have been in this same circumstance, so any advice would be appreciated.
I did say to my WW this morning that we need to start working on defining responsibilities and and schedules for when we get into the new house. She looked really sad when I said this and didn't say anything in response. I know feelings change, but feel like I've kind of painted myself into a corner with the statement about finding an attorney and starting the divorce process. I feel like if I back off from that and don't follow through that I'm continuing to be a doormat and letting her do as she pleases with no consequences, and if I follow through I'm being strong, but pursuing a course of action I don't really want.
Not for nothing lfm, but we told you not to follow the time frame before and to put your foot down and set your boundaries, and again I'll say this time frame doesn't matter, if you don't want a D don't file.... Actions buddy, actions speak volumes, words are empty.
Set your boundaries and follow through. What boundaries have you thought of?
lfm, we all understand the emotional swirling that you must be feeling.
denial of what is happening, that you are being betrayed by your should mate, that everything you have been building could be stripped away in a flash...this is not easy.
you are trying to find a way t9 snap this back to the way it was. here is a hint for why that won't work...first she doesn't want to right now and seriously things weren't as good as you think, we're they? something was not right. THAT is what you need to focus on.
yes, the house is coming fast, thst is not a time line that you can expect to work with...too fast.
you have been with this woman for over two decades. that is a long time and it will take a seriously long while until lasting changes can be made. so you have time here to search your soul and really get to heart of your issues.
but as nuts has mentioned, as well as a few others...you have t9 decide what your boundaries are and what you will do.
does your consequence HAVE to be divorce, ultimately it may. do you want to be divorced? is that your ultimate goal here? are there other things that you can do to show your wife that you are no longer going to tolerate the open disrespect?
have you spoken to an individual councillor yet. IC can be a good way for you to work theough your boundaries. if they are not willing to do this, find one thst will. ic is not a one size fits all.
have you spoken with a db coach?
have you spoken to a lawyer yet?
what is support outside of the db forums?
we are with you lfm...we truly are!
Thanks Coconut and Zephyr. I know I was reacting to my frustration, and let me emotions get the better of me. I feel like I have set things back to the beginning where any progress had been made has been lost.
As far as boundries, I've communicated 2 so far, but am struggling a bit with consequences for breaking those boundries.
The two I've communicated are:
1) If she's going to be on the phone with him, she needs to leave the apartment or house so that it's not around myself or the kids.
2) When we get into the house, she needs to figure out where she is going to sleep as she can no longer sleep in our bed in the MBR as long as this is going forward. I can't enforce this in the apartment we are in as there is no place for her to sleep outside of the MBR.
Zephyr - in response to your questions, I have not seen an IC or spoken with a DB coach. I'm planning on starting things with a DB coach after we move into the new house. I need to look into IC, I've got good benefits for that through work, but have not explored that yet.
In terms of a lawyer - I have not spoken to one yet, but am taking off work the full week of the move, and am planning to speak with at least one that week, just to get a better understanding of what exacltly I'm looking at in terms of process, what is needed and what my options are. There are 2 options that I'm aware of in Nebraska - legal separation and divorce.
I appreciate the support guys!
In my own case I first spent some time going through and identifying which L to deal with and then contacted them to find out how they would handle my sitch. There are L rating sites out there (no external links allowed here) which gave me good insight into who to put on my short list. Don't take the first L you find in the Yellow Pages - check reviews, make sure they have experience in what you are dealing with first. Here in my area there is something called "collaborative law" which is a lower cost option. You may want to see if that is available to you as well. It still ends up in the same place but with (so they say) less stress and cost. I'd suggest starting the research and contact process now and then you can schedule a face-to-face with your short list while you are off. It's what I did.
I ended up going with the one from my short list who was the most prompt in getting back to me because being able to turn around any issues in a timely fashion was important. They were also exclusively a family law practice with experience in both collaborative law and divorce. Most L around my area dabble in a bit of everything. When I met with the L, I was very impressed because she "listened" and seemed to understand that although I may be starting the process that I wanted to avoid a D and agreed on an initial plan that would go stage by stage and allow for W to back out at any time. Having a plan has also helped me a lot because now I feel more in control.
Things ended up not working for me the way I'd planned it. W had been going on yet again about moving out like she had for months but even more so. Then one morning she found the cheque I had written to the L clearing through the bank account and asked what it was. I'd not planned on acting for another week when I'd have more stuff together. Her initial reaction was "good". I then gave her a letter I'd written asking her to reconcile but stating that if she didn't want to or didn't respond in a "reasonable time" then I would go legal to end the marriage. I avoided a specific date myself and seem to have done things in the opposite order to you.
I think that the fact that I obviously had a plan in place made things more "real" for her as perhaps did the phrase "end the marriage" vs "separate". I still have no idea where it's going and I've now waited almost 3 weeks. I've been counselled by people who know W and who I trust to be extra patient and so far it's seemed to be working out as she's been quiet about leaving and seems to be making an effort to reconnect. It could just be my imagination though too.
Since you've given a date you need to stick with it - in some fashion at least even if it just giving her the name of your L and asking for her's and requesting an initial meeting. She doesn't need to know how much or little you've done. It will make things more "real" and let her know that her cake eating days are coming to an end one way or another.
Money wise - I've only paid for an hour's consult but the L says that they'll keep my file active and that if I proceed then they'll need about $2000 to start as a retainer.
Good Luck.
Thanks for that insight AndrewP. I appreciate the info and definitely plan on speaking with more than one Lawyer. The one I'm starting with is a referral from the Employee Assistance Program I have through work, which means on some level he's been vetted out, but definitely want to find someone who will meet the needs of the situation.
Even if I do go down this path, we're going to have to have a co-habitation agreement for a while. My WW does not have a full time job right now, although she's been looking and had some interviews. Not that her finding a full time job changes anything, but then at least I know she'll be more capable of taking care of herself if we need to sell the new house.
Even if I do go down this path, we're going to have to have a co-habitation agreement for a while. My WW does not have a full time job right now, although she's been looking and had some interviews. Not that her finding a full time job changes anything, but then at least I know she'll be more capable of taking care of herself if we need to sell the new house.
lfm,
What do you think your WW would do if you lost your job? Would she be upset with you and immediately leave and move in with the OM? Or possibly, would she try to find any full time job so that she could help you while you look for another job?
Good question doodler,
At this point I believe she would do what she could to support me while I found a new job. That's the one thing that seems to be different with her from the other WW spouses that I've read about on the board. She has made sure that her responsibilities to the household and to the kids are always taken care of and outside of not being there at bedtime from time to time she has remained present and engagedd with her responsibilities.
That's why it's been difficult for identifying consequences for breaking boundries, becuase outside of texting, phone calls and occaissionally taking off to go see OM (maybe 1-2 times a week), she is doing everything that she would without being a WW.
It's a very unusual situation compared to what I've read about from the others on the board.
It's a very unusual situation compared to what I've read about from the others on the board.
That is rather unusual. I know that it's hard for us as LBH to see through our own fog but it almost sounds like she's bored and having a fling more than a full-fledged A. Has she been open to seeing an IC or going with you to MC?
On the other hand I denied to myself for a very long time that it was serious between my WW and OM since I couldn't imagine it and she had originally told me that she was "uncertain". Man-o-man was I ever wrong.
If you want to look at it cynically, she's definitely protecting her Plan B and the source of cake for her eating pleasure.
She has said that she is open to MC, but based on her involvement with the OM, I have held off on that because I feel it would be a waste of time until she can fully commit to figuring us out. I haven't spoken to her about IC, but may try to bring that up as it's something I may look at for myself as well.
All along I've recognized I'm her plan B, but after her comments on Friday, I feel like i've pulled away more than I have previously. Funny how you feel like you have dropped the rope and pulled away, but then something else happens and changes your perspective to show that you haven't done as well as you thought you had.
I think she's softened a bit from our conversation on Friday, but honestly haven't interacted with her enough to really know one way or the other.
lfm, your instincts are spot on about Mc right now, unless she is ready to commit to your marriage without someone else in the way, Mc will most likely be a waste of time.
also, good insight on the letting go. you are very apt with the concept that you haven't truly let go...one clue will be that you are still very worried about letting go
yes you are right. it may have been anotherstander who mentioned to me some time ago, about how you think you've dropped it, weeks go by and there you are with the rope still hidden behind your back. letting go is not easy, it is not easy at all.
give yourself time, give yourself compassion for what you are going through. make a point to do something just for you, a reward (for lack of more clever expression right now) for all your efforts, take a few moments to yourself.
have a great week!
Thanks Zephyr,
For me right now, my reward is getting back into running. I ran cross country and track in high school and for a time in college and stopped before I graduated college. It is a great way to get away from my WW and the kids and just have time to myself, think about things, relieve some frustration and stress, and decompress from the situation. It also feels good to come home, see my wife and say I'm going for a run before I eat dinner, be back after a bit.
The physical benefits don't hurt either. I've already had to buy some new clothes becuase of weight loss, and now have to look at buying some more because the new clothes are already loose.
Hope everyone has a Happy Tuesday!
proud of you on your fitness, and weight loss! some new clothes don't hurt either. great job!
Haven't posted anything for a couple of days. I've been working on detaching as much as possible from my WW while in the apartment. I've been stepping up my workouts this week, getting out to do that more than I have in the past, leaving my W at the apartment.
I'm sitting away from her when in the living are of the apartment, and just engaging in small talk. Although I did make a comment on Tuesday night after one of the cats started clawing the furniture, that I'll be glad to have nice furniture that won't get destroyed when we have our own places. She responded with "what are you talking about?". Like she doesn't know...
I saide when we're divorced and have our own places. She spent the rest of the night in a pissy mood and left the apartment for about half an hour. She's definitely still trying to cake eat, and I'm trying to show her through my actions that I'm prepared to move on. I think she's starting to see that there's a good chance she ends up completely alone in this as the longer this goes on, the more prepared I feel to completely walk away.
Anyway, hope everyone is having a great Thursday!
Trying not to mind read here, but know that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to type this out as more venting than anything. With that in mind, thanks for allowing me to do so here.
My W texted this morning if she could bring my three youngest for lunch today, which I happily accepted. It was a good lunch, lots of laughter, everyone being social, good eye contact between my wife and I as we were talking, so overall a good lunch. I walked them out to my W's car afterwords which I usually do. My wife in the past has given me a hug before getting in the car, but did not today, just said thanks and turned away. Can't possibly know why the change, but definitely hurts a bit.
On the flip side, my wife still wears her wedding ring, and seems to have really restricted her contact with the OM. She's not carrying her phone everywhere anymore and has been leaving it on her docking station in the evenings, but still guards it by taking it with her if she is walking outside or going into the bathroom to take a shower (I think to make sure I'm not trying to access it).
Anyway, just my venting for today. I'm not going to say anything or ask anything about it, still just trying to keep my distance at home, to be happy and confident and to be there for my kids if needed. Thanks for reading and Happy Friday!
I am glad you can see mind reading.
yes cent here, react on paper. then get yourself back to a happy place
as for the post from yesterday, I missed it. sorry. ya if you keep engaging in that sort of conversation, it will get you nowhere. actions not words. otherwise it is effectively you trying to get a reaction out of her. it typically does not get the reaction you really want.
sorry so brief. have to get going.
hope you have a good weekend.
I haven't spoken to her about IC, but may try to bring that up as it's something I may look at for myself as well.
I'm not the pro, but IMHO, an IC can only help people with things they really want help with. Can't know for sure what goes on in my W's IC sessions, but I can almost guarantee she has not fully, and truthfully, opened up to her IC about her actions of an EA, OM, etc. A WW would probably steer the IC session in a way that makes her feel like her actions are valid and she's not doing anything wrong. an IC can't predict, or know, the entire story until the storyteller actually gives in to really wanting to get down to the root cause of things... and in most cases, they don't.
Zephyr - thanks for your reply. I'm recognizing as well that I do sometimes say things just to get a reaction out of her, and trying to avoid that if at all possible going forward.
Thanks betterm, appreciate the insight on IC. I know it's something she'd have to want in order for her to get anything beneficial out of it, so I may just let that slide.
I've actually been feeling in a decent spot the last couple of days. We've been laughing around each other and no relationship talk at all. The only talk about the future has been around moving into the house. Down to a little over a week to go. I think this is how it will continue until then and we'll see what happens when we get there.
Today my W is heading about an hour away to visit a college roommate today, so good opportunity to spend some time with my 3 youngest daughters, and my oldest daughter should be around tonight. Overall hoping to have a good day full of GAL activities with my kids.
Hope everyone has a happy Saturday!
Happy Monday all.
Had a decent weekend, WW went to visit her college roommate on Saturday, and I spent the day with my 3 youngest daughters. We went to the pool, grocery shopping, made fajitas for dinner and overall had a good day. My W event texted me to let me know she made it to her friends house, and again when she was leaving, indicating she didn't want me to worry about her. I'll take that as a positive sign.
On Sunday my WW had to work, so I took my three youngest daughters to see a move, and then made dinner, which happens to be one of my wife's favorite dishes. Everyone loved the food, and again, my WW let me know when she was on her way home from work.
The odd thing to me is that my W hasn't been texting or calling anyone over the past week and a half or so, at least not while I'm around. It's a complete 180 from the behavior I've seen over the past several months. It doesn't necessarily mean anything to me at this point other than a curious change in her behavior as she leaves her phone on her docking station in the evening, and doesn't even carry it with her. There hasn't been any communication between us about the future, our relationship or anything for the past week and a half either. The timing of all of that just raises some curiousity, but I'm definitely not about to bring anything up with her, just keep doing what I've been doing, being cordial, doing my best to be a lighthouse in our home, and staying as positive as possible. I feel and see myself starting to become a WAS myself, so we'll see what happens.
Hope everyone is having a terrific start to the week!
Feeling kind of down tonight. Wife decided at the last minute to take my three youngest daughters to visit her mother, which is 4 hours away. This should be a good thing, get some spearation from each other.
Unfortunatley, I took this as an opportunity to snoop a bit, as I've been confused by the behavior I've seen from her recently of no texting and no phone calls. (Bad lfm...)
Anyway, looks like a week ago WW wished the OM well on his vacation off the grid. This tells me that nothing at all has changed between them, although I found text messages from each of them that they need to let each other go, that they don't have time for each other, etc.
I don't believe any of that of course, I'm sure it's just games between the two of them, but doesn't make me feel any better. WW will be back sometime on Friday, so I'm sure she'll take off one night over the weekend, which is fine. I don't really care any more. Like I said in teh above post, I see myself becoming more of an WAS with each one of these instances. I don't see my W ever returning in a way that I want her to, and at this point I'm focused on taking care of myself and trying to be a light for the kids as we move into the new house this next week.
I may consult with a L this next week since I'll have time off just to get an understanding of where I stand and what I need to be thinking about in terms of us potentially heading for a D. I'm not planning on filing any time soon, as I know I need to exhibit patience with this whole thing, but with a new house, the kids, mutliple vehicles, and my W not having a full time job right now, I definitely need to start thinking about protecting my interests outside of the GAL and taking care of myself activiites I've been doing.
Hope everyone else is hanging in there. I know I'll feel better in the morning, it's just finding that stuff this evening that is making feel a bit down.
It's been almost 5 months since I uncoverd my WW's PA, and her A with the OM has been going on for around 8 months (which I know is not very long in the grand scheme of things). With that said, I've done a lot of thinking over the past several days, a couple of which where my wife was out of town with our three youngest kids, and I found I didn't miss her at all. As I've thought about the past several years together, I realize that I don't actually love my wife anymore, I loved the idea of her.
What I mean by that is that I love the idea of someone being there to help take care of the kids and house and to talk to, but the more I think about it, we truly are nothing more than friends with occaissional benefits at least that is what we had become. The "benifits" part of that statement don't really exist anymore since BD.
Anyway... based on this realization, I've decided that I'm going to start working on getting my affairs in order so that I can file for D. It may be a couple of months off before I can actully file as I've got some financial related items to address before filing, and I'll need to work on figuring out the car situation as my WW actually owns the car I drive, so i know that won't be someting I can rely on for transportation once a D is finalized.
I have to say that coming to the realization that I'm going to file for D is really a relief, I don't feel sad about it like I thought I would. And yes I've given this decisions significantly more than the 72 hour waiting period that we all talk about before making big decisions. That doesn't mean I won't have days where I have doubts about it being the right decision, but I realilze I want to be with someone who wants to be 100% committed to me, and I don't know that I can ever have that with my W. I don't think we've been 100% committed to each other for a long time, we've just been going through the motions of being married. Her A has just helped me realize how far off we actually are, and I don't see a future anymore where we are together. I do feel bad for our kids as I'm not sure how exactly they will handle the news when we tell them.
I've asked my wife to have us sit down with them this next weekend to let them know that we're having some marriage issues and that we very well likely may end up divorcing. She seems open to the idea, so we'll see how that goes.
I'll continue to pop in periodically to provide updates on my sitch and personal development progress as the things I've learned from the board and all of you are things that will carry with me for the rest of my life and will only help me be the best lfm I can be, whether I'm alone or find someone else. Thanks all for your support over the past several months. I've found this board to be a true source of inspiration and support, and I wish all of you the best as you go forward.
I know it's a tough decision, but one I probably would have to make myself if I was in your shoes. She doesn't seem to leave you much choice is she is still carrying on the affair.
Good luck.
Thanks RDS. I'm finding that making this decision wasn't as hard or difficult as I thought I would. I thought I would feel more like I did following BD, but I don't have any of those types of emotions right now.
I think all of that tells me that I'm making the correct decision becuase I'm really not that torn up about it (at least not over the past couple of days). I think what upsets me more is that we are closing on the house we were supposed to spend the rest of our days in on Tuesday. One we are building new and picked everything out together on. I'll be sad to let that go when we get around to splitting up assets as it was a big accomplishment to get to. Don't get me wrong, we've built houses together before, but this was supposed to be the last one that we would retire in.
Once the house is gone it truly will feel like i'm starting over. I'm looking forward to new experiences as I've never lived alone, although I'll still have the kidws around, but it will end up at some point being my household and mine alone.
Best of luck with your situation as well RDS!
Sorry for you having to do the dirty work ifm. I admire the strength and conviction you have come to. Doing it for your peace of mind is great! Hope the talk with the kids go well. Please let us know how that goes. I need to do that with mine soon too.
Thanks for posting Buxom. I'll definitely let everyone know how that goes. Should be interesting with 4 teenagers that will all be able to understand what we tell them and a 7 year that will probably understand more than I thihk she will.
It'll definitely be an interesting discussion!
Ifm. Sorry to see your have a cr@ppy time of it all. It's not fun, but it is tolerable and it will get better. In terms of telling the kids, my WW walked with the kids on 6/6/(201)6 a - spooked eh 666! She moved all her things out whilst I took the kids away and played pretend happy families - knowing what was happening. We have S6 and D8. They are fine now but it was very painful telling them. We all cried. I really recommend telling them together, keeping it factual and have the same script. They will cry for a while but it won't last long. They will then just talk to you about how they feel - sporadically of course. That's the hard bit but again it's tolerable. i guess we all tend to assume that it will all be a terrible disaster but that's not always the case.
All the best..
Thanks Surfer! I appreciate the insight from someone who has had those discussions with their kids.
If you need it I can dig out something I was given by my L which helped to script things for me and WW.
I'll let you know Surfer, need to have some addtional discussions with my W to make sure we are on the same page first. If I find we're not even close, then I'll let you know as I'm sure it would help in that situation.
Thanks!
Avoid it at all costs if you can. Getting some space apart will help but not living apart.
Ah just noticed that your W moved out - presume she is still gone?
The space has helped us not argue in fairness - as my WW can't so readily, but being apart does not help the relationship so much. You need some sort of connection and living apart makes that harder. But no connection is somwtimes better than bad connection in the short term IMHO.
Surfer, I'm confused a bit by your last 2 posts. My W has not moved out, and neither have I. We are still in the MBR, sleeping in the same bed. But we close on a new house tomorrow, maybe that where you got the moving part?
Anyway, I'm planning on asking her to find another room in the new house to sleep in after we get settled in. I do still want to have the discussion with our kids this weekend, thinking that they can start to process the possibility of their parents getting divorced before school starts. I'd rather give them some time following that bomb drop without the added pressure of school.
As far as my previous posts, I think my decision is finally catching up with me a bit today. I'm feeling very sad this afternoon as I try to get things packed up for the move tomorrow. It doesn't help that in the middle of the night last night my wife curled up with me, putting her hed on my shoulder and arm across my chest. She said "This doesn't mean anything, but I cant' sleep." She fell asleep on my shoulder about 10 minutes later.
It was so very nice as I've missed having any sort of physical connection with anyone. Maybe that's contributing to my feeling of sadness today along with the packing up of things that I know at some point are going to be distributed between different households.
Back to your last post... That's the really weird thing. We communicate better now post BD than we have in many many years. We don't argue, and there is no indication to anyone including our kids that anything is wrong. In asking my W to find another room to sleep in, I'm hoping it allows me to dettach even further than I have at this point. It's really hard to detach when you lay in bed watching TV late at night and your STBX is sitting next to you.
Anyway... thanks for the continued support!
Howdy LFM,
I have been hoping that your move is going well and that it has not been dredging up BS between you and wife!
It doesn't help that in the middle of the night last night my wife curled up with me, putting her hed on my shoulder and arm across my chest. She said "This doesn't mean anything, but I cant' sleep." She fell asleep on my shoulder about 10 minutes later.
It was so very nice as I've missed having any sort of physical connection with anyone. Maybe that's contributing to my feeling of sadness today along with the packing up of things that I know at some point are going to be distributed between different households.
So, I KNOW how hard the loss or lack of physical connection is on men like us. It is, for many men, the most impactful act for feeling loved by others. a warm hug from a close friend, child holding our hands walking in the park, or and embrace from a lover. I get it. I love physical touch too.
When you wife acts the way you described, she is using you. plain and simple. the term here on DB is Cake-Eating. that is just a nicer way of proclaiming being used and effectively mistreated and manipulated.
now, the feeling of a woman's arm around your chest and her head on your shoulder...that is euphoric, but how did it feel when she told you, 'it meant nothing'? how did it feel the next morning (I am assuming she went right back to how it was the day before)? I have been there and it leaves a pretty deep bruise, one that hurts more than the niceness of the moment.
This is all so new, so I will keep it short.
Out of curiosity (because I can't remember), have you read all of Sandi's threads on the Wayward wife?
You are doing really great. I know this is not an easy situation, but I think you are handling yourself well!
Do you feel you can start letting her go, now? For your sake, I hope you can.
It is so sad, however, your outlook sounds as good as it probably can be, considering.
I hope you will continue updating us, b/c we still care. ((LFM))
Is the affair still going on?
Thanks for the continued support gang,
The move has been a lot more hectic than I thought it would be so it's been a few days since I've been able to post anything. We are in the house, and working on getting settled. It's amazing how much crap we've accumulated after being together for going on 22 years.
Zephyr - totally agree that it was a cake eating move on my WWs part. The following night she also kind of snuggled with me, laying her arm across me. I think something may have happened around that time between her and the OM and she was looking for comfort from the one source she had available. I'll enjoy it for what it was, which was some nice companionship for those couple of nights. My W has pretty much pulled away again since then, and I've noticed for the past week or so that she's stopped wearing her wedding ring. I'm not sure if its because of the move or if there is something going on in her mind that's prompting this. Contact with the OM as far as I can tell has been very minimal during this week, but think it may be picking up again.
Sandi, definitely in a position where I feel like I'm letting her go, but know there is part of me that is still attached. I'm finding it really difficult to completely dettach and not have any feeling for her particularly when we are still living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed.
Rose - as far as I can tell the affair is still going on, and shows no sign of stopping, not that there is necessarily any indication that it will stop.
As far as myself over the past week, I haven't done much in terms of GAL becuase it's all been about the move. I did have a phone consultation with an attorney to run through what I needed to be prepared for when I file for D. I can't say that I'm 100% convinced that is what I will do, but feel like I get a little bit closer to filing with each passing day. I think I need to give a little bit of time for things to settle after the move before jumping into that.
I do have a business trip out of town coming up in a couple of weeks so maybe that will help with some of the detachment issues, as I'll be away from WW and kids for 4 days.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend and I'll try to post again soon.
LFM,
Question... For a couple of months now you have put off setting boundaries and protecting yourself because you wanted to wait until you moved into the new house. So your in, what boundaries do you now plan to put in place?
Hey Coconut,
Good question. Here's what I'm thinking. I could use some advice as to whether or not I'm on the right track.
1) If she's going to be in contact with the OM, she needs to leave the house. (This one is hard to enforce as it's a big enough house that I can't know she is following this without me following her around the house. I had implemented this one in the apartment we were living in and she did actually follow it for the most part.
2) OM is not allowed to set a foot in this house. I don't think this one would be broken anyway, but he was allowed in our prior house before the PA actually started.
3) We need to speak with our kids about the difficulties we have in our marriage right now and that we may very well end up proceeding down the path of divorce.
4) and this is the big one... telling my WW that for as long as the A continues, she needs to find somewhere else in the house to sleep.
I believe this boundaries are fair and valid. The difficulty I have is consequences for violating them. I feel like my only recourse at this point is to go ahead and file for divorce or to threaten to make the A public, which I don't really want to do as I am thinking long term about what that would do to our relationship and to the relationship of our kids. I dont' think there is anything else I can put out there as a consequence, but maybe I'm not thinking about that correctly.
Any thoughts from you or the group on these?
Thanks!
I wouldn't set a boundary that will be difficult to enforce. I know that never works out for me in parenting, and I can't imagine it going any better with another adult.
Thanks Rose. I appreciate the feedback on the boundaries.
For the group, there was one change over the weekend, I had a discussion with my wife regarding having a discussion with the kids about our marriage difficulties and she stated she is not ready to do that, which is a backtrack from prior conversations she's had on the subject. I don't want to have the conversation without here, so am putting that on hold for the moment.
A bit of mind reading here, but she's also been making comments about a future together with us. She has not done this for some time, so I think getting into the house, and realizing she could have to give it up is having some impact on her. Again a bit of mind reading on my part there, but it's interesting to see.
In addition, this is probably just be cake eating on her part, but I told her that I had a conversation with a Divorce Attorney, and ran through the highlights of what she would need to know and be aware of. She in turn asked my to be patient a little bit longer as she's still trying to figure some things out...
I also had a really emotional day on Saturday, felt very down and sad, and realized that despite feeling that divorce is my only recourse at this point, that a D is not what I want. So I'm backing off of that for the time being, and continuing to work on me. As others have mentioned, there is no time limit or expiration date on this. Big picture, I've know about the A for a tad under 5 months, which is a pretty short time frame. I can be patient a bit longer and continue to work on myself, which needs to be done anyway.
Thanks all for the continued support and have a great week!
So interesting development. WW tells me last night that she and the OM have agreed that they can't proceed with the A and that if they are going to have a relationship, they need to do it right.
I asked her when she plans on filing for D, to which she responded I'm not planning on filing, she's loosing her feelings for the OM and wants to figure us out.
Normally I would think this is a good step in the right direction, however she's told me in the past that they were done and the A gets back on track a couple of days later. It doesn't help that she got out of bed and grabbed her phone took that with her and didn't come back to bed for a couple of hours.
Just journaling here more than anything and providing an update for the group. Hope everone wraps up the week well and happy Thursday!
lfm, glad you recognize this could just be part of her bull crap cycling with a fledgling relationship with her affair partner. consistent actions from her working toward trust and openness, because her word means nothing right now.
just stay on your path, living for you and your kids. there is so much that your wife will need to do to regain your trust, do not allow her little manipulative hiccups to sway you.
Thanks Zephyr! I'm definitely of the mindset right now that I don't want to stay in the R with my W without some significant changes being made on her part, which I am seeing some elements of.
While she is still in contact with OM, which won't go away anytimne soon as they work at the same place, she has cut back significantly on texting and phone calls. She has also been very open about any contact that they have had (of course taking her word for it for the time being, trying not to snoop as I can access the backup files from her phone including text messages). But that being said, for a couple of days at least it seems to be a bit of progress in the right direction.
There is still a very long ways to go if we are going to move forward as I want to be with someone who genuinely wants to be with me. At the current time, I know that's not my W. We'll see how the next couple of weeks go.
Have a great weekend everyone!
While she is still in contact with OM, which won't go away anytimne soon as they work at the same place, she has cut back significantly on texting and phone calls. She has also been very open about any contact that they have had (of course taking her word for it for the time being, trying not to snoop as I can access the backup files from her phone including text messages). But that being said, for a couple of days at least it seems to be a bit of progress in the right direction.
By cutting back on her phone activity, do you mean to the OM?
You know, don't you, that ending her A doesn't stand a chance as long as she is working with him. No matter how open she seems to be about all the contact.......it just won't work. Coconut's situation proved that point. He watched his W's activity carefully, and she "appeared" to be working at reconciling........but she did not leave the place that brought her and OM together. The two AP's cannot continue staying at the same site, or see each other's picture, cars, or anything.
I think the H is fighting a losing battle as long as he tries to convince himself that a little progress has been made here & there, and at the same time knows contact between the AP's is still being made.
So interesting development. WW tells me last night that she and the OM have agreed that they can't proceed with the A and that if they are going to have a relationship, they need to do it right.
I asked her when she plans on filing for D, to which she responded I'm not planning on filing, she's loosing her feelings for the OM and wants to figure us out.
Gee, what arrogance! That was her throwing bread crumbs in your face. The very idea that she just assumed you would want left-overs from her A.............and yet, that is the mindset of a WW. I had the same mindset, and thought if things didn't work out between me and my OM, I would simply return home where my H would be waiting with open arms. Well guess what? He informed me that if I ever left.....there would be no coming back.......and, there would be no buddy-buddy system (remaining friends). Man, that hit me like a ton of bricks!
Agree with everything you've said Sandi. I am not optimistic about the future between WW and I, and to make matters worse, my W just accepted a full time job where they work, changing from part time. Now instead of working with him one day a week, she'll be there with him 5 days a week, so I'm expecting at some point to see her behavior change again/revert back or to get a second bomb drop.
At this point I'm playing it cool as I need to get my affairs in order before really feeling I'm ready to file for D. I've realized that while I want to keep my family together and utlimately reconcile with my WW, that it simply nothing more than a want. It's not a need, I know from the past several months that I'll be just fine without her if it comes to that, and that maybe somewhere down the road, I can find someone who truly, 100% wants to commit and be with me.
That's most likely a ways down the road though and right now I am just doing my best to continue working on me. I've talked to my W about resolution meaning no contact with OM and that she ultimately needs to delete and block his number. I don't think she is ever going to be ready for that. I've also told her that despite their "agreement", he is always going to be waiting in the wings for her to call him because things aren't good and will try to sweep in and save the day.
Up until this supposed "agreement" he's had the perfect relationship, he gets intimacy and companionship without any of the responsbility of a real relationship.
Anyway... I digress. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few weeks...
Well, that was short lived. I thought she might actually hold true to what she said this time as she showed more remorse than she has in the past, but last night she grabbed her phone around 10:40 and went into the other room. I walked by her a couple of times as we were having a sleepover for our daughters. My W hadn't come back to bed at midnight, so I took her a pillow and a blanket and told her she needed to sleep out there last night.
She did, and this morning I walked into the kitchen to get some coffee and my W was awake and was already texting. I walked back into the bedroom, waited a little bit, but then decided to go for a run, I walked out to tell her this and mentioned that we need to have the discussion with the kids about our situation she keeps asking me to put off and that she needs to think about finding a divorce attorney.
Of course she was not happy when I returned home from the run and we had a decent discussion about things, but as the day has gone on I know that I cannot continue with the situation the way things are. She is totally playing me and I need to start the process to file for D.
During the discussion she made it sound like she was trying to break things off slowly because she still works with OM, but I see it as more cake eating and trying to play me so I stay around as her plan B, but am not falling for that anymore.
Add to that that she normally should be home from work by now, but of course is not. Either she is calling the OM, or she's on her way to see him. Normally she lets me know if she's going to be late (even during the A) and has not now, which tells me she is further gone than I thought.
Hope everyone else has had a better weekend than I have in terms of what has happened with their wayward or walkaway spouses. Gonna try and get some rest tonight, as it's going to be a long week.
She's addicted. She cannot slowly cut back from the OM. She can't find closure to an A. She needs to kill it graveyard dead!
Learning how affairs are addictive, was one of the most important factors that guided me in the right direction.
Your W may have emotional times where she regrets hurting you. She and OM may have a lag in their A. However, it's the power of the addiction that pulls her back into it. That is why I believe once a WW comes clean and truly wants to end the A and save her M, she needs to understand what she's up against. She needs a plan and a source of encouragement and someone she can turn to when she is experiencing those weak moments of strong cravings to contact OM. I don't believe she can work around her source of addiction every day and not continue her A.
Affairs are so addictive that if OM were to dump her, there is a chance she would search for OM#2.
Don't let her pull you into her drama of always pulling away from OM, or them having a spat, or whatever the daily special may be at the time.
FWIW, I have not searched for OM #2. I know how I got into that situation and I make sure I never get anywhere near that door again. When you have an addiction, you have to be proactive in getting clean (so to speak) and avoiding the avenues that led you there. No longer do I say that I would NEVER do such a thing b/c I'm not that type of person.
Thanks Sandi.
Problem in my case is that since I found out about the affair, she has been very open and transparent about most of it (maybe more than she should be). While she has expressed remorse at times, she has never really indicated that she wants to end the A. Sounds like the OM is the one pushing for this agreement that if they are going to proceed they need to do it right.
The one good thing that seems to be happening with the current situation is that he continues to pursue her even though he is the one that said they shouldn't proceed the way things are. She has indicated that this is pushing her away from him. However, I know she is deep, deep, deep in the addiction at this point and it's going to take a lot to get her to admit that she needs to stop the A.
I'm doing my best to try not to get pulled into the drama of the day, but it's difficult. She seems to be very good at dropping breadcrumbs at the moments that I'm ready to completely walk and be done, and foolishly I allow myself to get sucked back in. I need to continue to work on this, as it's only causing me unecessary pain.
I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that it's funny how we think we're dettaching and dropping the rope, but then something happens that [censored] us back in and we realize that we weren't as far down that path as we thought.
At this point, I'm continuing to dettach, trying to get everything in order to file for D. I am still conflicted on wether that's what I want or not, so need to spend some more time thinking about that while I'm out for a run or working in the yard.
Anyway - Happy Monday all and have a great week!
Problem in my case is that since I found out about the affair, she has been very open and transparent about most of it (maybe more than she should be).
Unless she is working toward reconciliation and repairing the MR, I really think her being open and transparent about what she and OM
are doing in their A is NOT appropriate. I would strongly encourage you to stop her from discussing details between them, if the A is still going on. Unless, and until, the time comes that she is willing to work on the M, it's disrespectful of her to discuss the woes of her infidelity with the one she's cheating on.
That's JMHO, and maybe I am not understanding everything.
Yeah, I'm conflicted about that as well. On the one hand there's things I don't want to hear, but at the same time, taking a long time view, I think if we do ever get to the point of reconcilliation, it will speed up the process as we won't have to go through the step of me asking questions about everythign I feel I need to know about the A.
The other thing that I've started realizing is that my being there for her to "vent" about the A is that I've continuing prior behavior of "Nice Guy Syndrome", thinking that if I let her vent to me, it will keep us communicating and connected on some level. Don't know if there is any validity to that or not, but something I need to think about more as well.
One other thing, I just realized our 21 wedding anniversary would be this Friday. That day may be kind of rough as we'll have family and friends reaching out to pass along congratulations. No one outside of my W, myself and the OM know anything about what is going on. That's going to be an interesting day...
Oh well... back to work.
Yeah, I'm conflicted about that as well. On the one hand there's things I don't want to hear, but at the same time, taking a long time view, I think if we do ever get to the point of reconcilliation, it will speed up the process as we won't have to go through the step of me asking questions about everythign I feel I need to know about the A.
lfm,
I find you exasperating. (Have I said that before?) You don't need to worry about reconciliation, you need to worry about OM2, OM3 and OM4.
Hey doodler, I do agree with you that I need to worry about OM2 and so on, however, if we don't reconcile at some point, then future OM are not really my concern, as we'll end up going our separate ways and she can be involved with whomever she wants at that point.
So update for the group. #$%! hit the fan at work yesterday. I manage a small team of people in my job. One employee in my office and one in another state.
A month and a half ago I had the employee in my office accept a position in another city, and we've been working on re-writing the job description to better align with responsibilities going forward. Yesterday my employee in the other city gave me his resignation. So once he's gone, I'll be doing the work of 3 people until I can get replacements hired and trained. Probably looking at 2-3 months before things calm down again, and that's being optimisitic.
Anyway, that lays the background for a short conversation with my WW last night, where I told her about my employee resigning. Following that, I said that this means that I'm going to have to focus on work going forward, and that I can't be invovled with our relationship anymore that it's too much of a distraction. I explained that I can't be her friend that she goes to to talk about things with the OM, that we can't be doing things together anymore (we would still go out to dinner or see a movie from time to time). That I'll most likely spend all of my time at home working for the foreseeable future.
So I'm basically going dark for the foreseeable future. I did tell her that if there is something with the kids or the house by all means let me know what's going on, but that's the extent of what I can be involved with at this point. I told her my job is the one thing in my life right now that I need to make sure I have under control, and that's where my focus needs to be.
I realized this situation is helping me dettach as I had been checking cell phone useage, etc. and have not had the desire to do that at all this morning. We'll see how the next couple of weeks go, but man have to say when it rains it pours!
Hope everyone is having a good start to this Tuesday!
Journaling here:
Been very dim the last couple of days and got my first temp check this morning. As I was getting ready to leave for work, W asked me about what I though regarding an old 401(k) she has, should she roll it over to the plan with the company she just accepted a full time job with or should she roll it over to the brokerage company I work for?
Told her I could take a look at the plan she would get when she gets the details and give her my thoughts at that time.
Anyway, having a good start to the day, and thanks for the fun back and forth on your thread this morning doodler, definitely helps keep the mood light during what's been a really long week already.
So, I've realized that I have become a WAS, I have no interest in trying to move forward with my wife. I no longer feel hurt, anger or resentment towards my WW.
I do feel bad for our kids as we will end up splitting up the family, and selling the house we just moved into. But at the end of the day, as nice as it is, it's just a thing. There will be other houses, other cars and the like, none of which is a need, they are all want's.
I've also realized that I accept my role in getting us to this point, it definitely not something that just happened with my wife. While she chose to get involved with the A, I certainly helped put her in the mindset to make it okay in her mind and never paid attention to what she was trying to tell me.
As I noted previously, things are going to be crazy busy at work for the next couple of months, so may be a little bit before I file for D. My W still seems to be in this fantasy world that we can be firends, live in the same house, and keep things together for the kids. I told her last night that all of that goes away, that I'd commit to stay in the house through the end of this school year as my oldest daughter is a Senior this year, and I don't want to cause any more disruption in her life than is absolutely necessary.
Funny thing is that my W keeps wanting to push of any discussion with the kids about the possibility of us getting divorced, she still has not told any friends or family about what is going on, and I think is in denial about the situation she has now created. Unfortunately, any change in her at this point is going to be too little too late. I think I'm in a simmilar spot to doodler at this point - I don't think I could try to date my wife again. She's become this manipulative person that I have never seen before. I see her playing both myself and the OM, stringing us both along thinking she can both in her life.
I'm okay with all of that at this point, and am ready to move on with my life without her. Doen't mean that there won't be challenges as I start that journey for myself, but I actually feel more at peace now that I've made that decision than I have since BD back in April.
Sad thing is our 21 wedding anniversary will be tomorrow, but there won't be any celebration, I don't even know if I'll buy a card to give her. Should be an interesting day as friends and family reach out to pass along Happy Anniversary wishes.
Hope everyong has a great day today! I know I will as I'm finally feeling like I'm in a good place.
lfm,
I'm sorry that your marriage has crumbled, but I'm glad that you sound strong and the LBS fog is clearing.
If it weren't for my IC, I'd probably still be feeling my way through the fog. I don't see her regularly anymore, but she was a key component of my recovery from the shellacking my WW gave me.
Good luck going forward. You've changed a lot in a short amount of time and you're going to be just fine.
Thanks doodler! Totally agree, that I've changed a lot in the past 5 months and that I will be fine on my own once I get there!
Having an emotional morning this morning. It's what should be a celebration of my 21st wedding anniversary today. Already getting texts wishing both of us a happy anniversary.
Unfortunately it's making me sad for the first time in a while, which is making me rethink if I really want to proceed with filing for D. Might just be a temporary emotional day, but is definitely changing my thoughts on the situation today.
Hope everyone has a great Friday and look forward to reading about everyone's weekend activities!
lfm,
I'm sorry you're having a difficult morning. My 16th anniversary was on the 10th. I was lucky, my WW used that as an opportunity to hit me up for some money. She pissed me off so I didn't really dwell on the sadness of the occasion.
I hope you start feeling better and I hope you have some excitement scheduled for the weekend.
Funny thing is W asked me if we could go do something like see a movie tonight to get out and away from the kids.
I'm going to go and use it as a chance to get out myself, and hopefully enjoy a show. A movie means there won't be much communication, so that's not a bad thing. We'll see how it goes, but not seeing it for more than anything as a chance to get out.
Thanks doodler!
The other thing that I've started realizing is that my being there for her to "vent" about the A is that I've continuing prior behavior of "Nice Guy Syndrome", thinking that if I let her vent to me, it will keep us communicating and connected on some level. Don't know if there is any validity to that or not, but something I need to think about more as well.
When I was a teenager and had just started dating, there was this guy who took me out. He was really cute and maybe I would have been more interested in him....except I had previously dated one of his classmates. It was his classmate that I was really interest in.....not this nice, cute boy. So, here I am out with this cute boy and I'm talking about his classmate and asking him why the classmate broke up with me, on & on. It wasn't long before I found myself returning home from that date.... (and he drove pretty fast getting me there). Of course, I was very young and had a lot to learn, but I bet you can see what I'm trying to show here.
I wasn't thinking about this cute boy and how he had gotten a car, probably washed/waxed it to get ready for the date. He may have had to work to get money to take me out to the movie. I lived a ways from where he was, so he had to drive some distance getting there. And what did I do? I whined about the guy who suddenly stopped dating me. And I was asking this boy if he knew why and had the other guy told him, etc., etc. You could say I was venting about the OM.
So, was this cute boy
"there for me" as I vented about another guy? No, he didn't hang around to play Dear Abby with me. He politely took me home, and he didn't bother trying to keep the lines of communication open afterwards, either. I think he did exactly what he should have done! I learned a lesson in dating manners that night, and never forgot it. I was being very insensitive and rude to the young man who probably went to a lot of trouble to take me out on a date.
I believe it is extremely inappropriate for a WW to "vent" about her OM to her H! Perhaps I don't how you mean she vents about OM. I just don't think she should be bringing up the OM in conversation, unless you are asking her about him/affair.
Totally agree with you Sandi, and don't plan on participating in any additonal conversations with her about the OM, and have told her as such. Basically that I can no longer be her friend that she goes to vent to. I'll be there if something is going on with the kids, or if something comes up with the house or one of the cars (since we have teenage drivers) otherwise that is all I can be at this point.
As far as your note about not being sure what I mean about her venting, she has basically told me everthing, the good, the bad, the intimate details, all of it. I was definitely falling into the trap of thinking that if I be her friend and listen to what she is saying that she'll see that I am there for her, but that clearly has not worked and I'm ready to move on, so no more discussions about anything having to do with OM.
Thanks!
Journaling - had an interesting weekend. Had a decent evening on Friday night. My wife had asked if we could get dinner and a movie in honor of our Anniversary. I agreed, and it was an enjoyable time. We held hands a bit during the movie, and it felt somewhat normal.
Unfortunately, things fell apart from there. We had a bit of blow up on Saturday, not really ready to talk about that, but ended up with my W sleeping in one of my daughters bedrooms. Then yesterday, she came home from work, and suddenly had to go out to the store. She was gone for a couple of hours, and I snoopped and found she was at OM's house. That part doesn't suprise me, I figured it would happen sooner or later, but after an emotional weekend that made me question my feelings on proceeding to D, that was the last thing I needed to see.
When she got home, I told her that I don't think it's a good idea for us to sleep in the same bed anymore, and I slept on the couch last night. I think I may do that for the rest of this week, and then I travel for work the following week. Planning on staying as dim as possible this week, but may be difficult with school starting, and we have back to school night for our youngest daughter tomorrow night.
Anyway, enough journaling. Everyone have a great week!
lfm,
It sounds like you're making progress. I hope everything is going well for you.
Ugh, having a rough evening emotionally. I've been kind of messed up emotionally since our wedding annivesary on Friday, but today, was going thorugh some receipts, looking for a repair receipt for one of the kids cards and ran across a card from my wife that she gave to me on my last Birthday, which was around the time her EA was getting started, eventually turning into a PA.
Anyway, the card said something to the effect about how she knew I was the one from the time she first saw me. Can't help but ask myself how'd we get to where we are now from a card like that about 6 months ago. Blows my mind at how much things have changed.
My emotions are also telling me that I'm not as dettached as I thought I was, that I'm still holding out hope for a reconcilliation that at this point I don't see happening. Not that anything is ever written in stone, but just doesn't seem possible to get to that point anymore.
Today was also the first day of school for our kids today, and I walked our youngest in as it was her first day in a new school and wanted to make sure she felt comfortable as she often gets overwhelmed when there's a lot of new people around. I couldn't help but think that this may be the last time doing this with our family still somewhat intact. It was hard seeing the other young couples who seemed so happy, knowing that it's been a long time since I've actually felt that way about my W, and her about me.
Anyway... I feel like I'm starting to ramble. Another day to get through tomorrow. Hope everyone is having a good week!
Anyway, the card said something to the effect about how she knew I was the one from the time she first saw me. Can't help but ask myself how'd we get to where we are now from a card like that about 6 months ago. Blows my mind at how much things have changed.
lfm,
It is absolutely amazing how quickly things change as soon as the WW succumbs to the advances of the OM. It was about a year ago when my wife whispered into my right ear, "You're the love of my life." I can still feel her warm breath on my ear.
Now, I won't let her get near my ears because she might go Mike Tyson on me. Oh well.
lmao, I like the Mike Tyson comment doodler. Totally agree on how amazingly fast things completely change from being happy and in love to being completely shut out with no concern of the history that's been shared, the impact it will have on the family, assets we've spent a lifetime acruing, etc.
I guess in the end all I can say is, c'est la vie!
So, update for the group. I spoke with my attorney yesterday and asked him to start preparing the paperwork to file for D. While this is still not necessarily the desired outcome, I have accepted that I cannot proceed with the current situation and who my wife has become.
This certainly doesn't mean the end of my relationship with my WW either, as we do have 5 kids together.
This decision on my part is for myself, it has helped me drop the rope and while I think it will get the attention of my wife, realizing that this is actually happening, my intent is not to get a reaction out of her, it is strictly to allow me to focus more on myself and what the future holds. We still have a long ways to go and a lot to work through in terms of assets, kids, and finding stability post D, but I feel that this is the right thing for me at this point in time.
I'll continue to provide updates, because as we have seen with all of our situations, things can change really quickly. I'm not expecting anything to change any time soon, but maybe some of my experience can benefit some of the rest of you when the time comes.
Thanks!
lfm,
I'm sorry you're going through this very difficult process, but I'm glad you're doing what you need to do for lfm and your children. You've changed so much in such a short amount of time. I'm certain you have the inner strength to push through all of the bad stuff and have a brighter future. Along the way, please let us know how things are going for you.
First, it was this:
Funny thing is W asked me if we could go do something like see a movie tonight to get out and away from the kids.
I'm going to go and use it as a chance to get out myself, and hopefully enjoy a show. A movie means there won't be much communication, so that's not a bad thing. We'll see how it goes, but not seeing it for more than anything as a chance to get out.
Then it changed to dinner and movie. Then it went from dinner & movie to holding hands.
Had a decent evening on Friday night. My wife had asked if we could get dinner and a movie in honor of our Anniversary. I agreed, and it was an enjoyable time. We held hands a bit during the movie, and it felt somewhat normal.
And finally, it went to this:
Unfortunately, things fell apart from there. We had a bit of blow up on Saturday, not really ready to talk about that, but ended up with my W sleeping in one of my daughters bedrooms. Then yesterday, she came home from work, and suddenly had to go out to the store. She was gone for a couple of hours, and I snoopped and found she was at OM's house. That part doesn't suprise me, I figured it would happen sooner or later, but after an emotional weekend that made me question my feelings on proceeding to D, that was the last thing I needed to see.
So, using the excuse to go to dinner and a movie, was just for you to get out.........had some emotional expectations. The entire thing sounds like a date, including holding hands.
Can anyone say, TEMP CHECK? Oh yes, and, big time!
So now, it goes from whatever happened in the blow out......to telling the lawyer to get started on paperwork. And guess what? You are already having expectations as to how your W will react.
((lmf))
LFM,
when you joined, you set your entire DB timeline to when the "dream house" was built. You were going to wait until then to set boundaries, and really start to DB. Now you are skipping all of that and filing for D. I think you were hoping a new house was going to shake your WW out of it and get her to come back to you and the future you both dreamed of.
I think you may want to consider calling your L and telling him to hold off, set boundaries (why are you leaving the MBR? and why is your WW sleeping in there with you?), stop being a H to your WW and fixing her problems, and work on yourself.
Your emotional swings over the last few days show that you are not in the place that would be best for you when you D, so why rush the D? If you D, will you be selling the house? If so, why not start there? Start preparing for your life post M, but don't rush it. Give DB at least a fair shot before then.
Good morning all,
Sorry it's been a while since I've been here. Here's the update for the group.
The decision to go ahead and file has been a good one for me. I've finally been able to let go completely. I'm not worried about where my wife is, I'm not snooping, I'm not tracking her phone, looking at her phone useage or anything anymore. I'm letting her do her thing with no expectations or comments about what she is doing. I'm also doing my own thing and am not worried about what she thinks.
My trip to Fort Worth was great as I feel like I finally started to find myself again, and didn't have the weight of any self imposed expectations. I barely had any contact with my W while I was gone. The limited contact I did have was a couple of text messages about the kids and the house.
As far as the filing, it is temporarily delayed as my atty is standing up his own practice and wanted a couple of weeks to have things calm down so that he could provide the best service possible to me. So nothing until mid-September there.
In terms of my decision to proceed to D, I've recognized that I don't want my wife back at all. The reason for this is that I've figured out that I was holding on to a fantasy of what I want my relationship to be with her, and that it's something will never come anywhere close to being real. In reflecting on the past 20+ years I think that while we may have been in love at one point, that we got married more out of it being the expectation at the time, and that we were to young to really question if we should get married.
I feel at this point that I'm finally finding a sense of peace regarding the situation I'm in and that I'm ready to move forward without my wife. It's not something I've decided in the heat of the moment, I have a couple of weeks to think about is this the right thing for me, and I whole heartedly believe that it is.
In terms of everything else, I am back in the MBR, and we are still sleeping in the same bed. I've spoken with my W about the divorce and we recognize we'll be selling the house at some point, but want to make sure we get through my oldest daughters senior year before making any further plans on that, but that I'm going to proceed with filing in the next couple of weeks.
I've got no expectations at all on a reaction from her in filing. She's going to do what she's going to do and I'm going to continue to work on myself and to be the best dad I can be.
I need to spend some time getting caught up on everyone else's situation, and I'll of course continue to provide updates.
Just my 2 cents, for you and for anyone else who is reading this...
I felt the same way when I finally decided I was done, I didn't care what she did (so I had convinced myself) and I had no feeling of needing to explain what I was doing, it was great I felt like I was living my life the way I wanted to...
Now about a month and a half later, I realized that this is where I needed to be when I was trying to save my M, that is what detaching and DB'ing is about. Now, while I don't ask where she is or what she's doing, I do still think about it. I notice when she's home or when she's not, I still try and figure out where she is, but it doesn't bother me.
I fully believe I'm on the path to D, but is it what I want? NOPE. If I could go back before things happened the way they did and pointed us towards D, I would of gotten like this earlier. Would it have changed things, possibly not, but I sure would like to go back and try and see...
If you and spouse aren't both set on D at this time (I don't know if you've talked to her about it), live like your getting divorced, mentally set yourself in the mode you would if you were getting D, go live your life, it may save your M.
Preach on Brother Coconut! I totally agree.
Thanks Coconut, we have actually talked about D, and I believe we are mostly on the same page. I do hear her making references to thing we'll do in the future as a family, like vacations, etc., so I don't think she's completely accepted that D is the outcome here.
I on the other hand am at a point where I don't want her back and here's some of the big reasons:
1) She has flat out indicated she will never cut off contact with OM, and she works with him, so her A will never truly be over.
2) I mentioned earlier that I believe I was in love with the idea of her, meaning having someone there by my side, but our relationship has been so far off of what I think it could be that I don't believe it could be saved even if that's what we both wanted, and neither one of us seems to want that at this point.
3) I'm happy with where I am right now. I've finally started to find the person I should have been all along, and feel that I'm going to lose some of that if we were to decide to try and reconcile, fall into old habits, etc. Similar to the addiction that our spouses are in, I feel I've been "addicted" to the behaviors that contributed to us getting to this point, and returning to the thing that is the source of that addiction would be a bad thing in the end.
In my case, I don't know that hitting this point earlier would have made any difference. Maybe it would have. I just know that I'm finally here now, and I'm happy with how I feel and about myself and the person I am at this moment. I'm not thinking about geting involved with someone else at this point, still have plenty of work to do on me, but it feels good to be free and to see the rest of my life ahead.
With that said, it does make me sad to think about what this might do to our kids. It also makes me sad to think about being 70 years old, at a breakfast table drinking coffee, recollecting on a special moment from our time together and knowing she won't be there to share it with. But that's okay, I think that D is in each of our best interests at this point, and that's okay too.
I do agree with what you've said though. For most of the members of the board, if they could let go and get to the point I'm at right now, it could make a big difference. The one thing I have learned, that hopefully anyone reading this can take something from is that no matter how much you think you've let go and dettached, you're never actually there, until you get to this point where you have not interest whatsoever in what your wife is doing. If you can get to that point, then you've trully dettached.
Thanks for the continued support guys!
3) I'm happy with where I am right now. I've finally started to find the person I should have been all along, and feel that I'm going to lose some of that if we were to decide to try and reconcile, fall into old habits, etc. Similar to the addiction that our spouses are in, I feel I've been "addicted" to the behaviors that contributed to us getting to this point, and returning to the thing that is the source of that addiction would be a bad thing in the end.
Are you familiar with the expression "No matter where you go, there you are?". Your habits had nothing to do with your wife, and aren't going to go away just because you go somewhere else. Your habits and actions are in you, so no matter where you go, they will be there unless you change them. I completely agree that some habits are hard to break, I struggle with that myself. But I don't think it has anything to do with who's around me, I believe it has to do with my drive, emotional well being, excitement of life, etc..
I want to be clear, I'm not arguing your points or telling you what you should do, just trying to point out some things I have learned (and am learning) along this path, it's the main reason I still come on this site, to share my experiences to help others.
I appreciate that coconut and understand what your saying and do agree that the changes I make need to come from within. My point was that by walking away at this point, I feel less likely to slip into common behaviors that have been there for a long time. Once divorced and living separately, it will be outside my comfort zone because I've lived with her for so long, making it less likely for me to slip back into the behaviors I'm trying to break.
Those behaviors have nothing to do with my W, it's just expressing that it's easy to get comfortable and slip into old behaviors, just like being around an addiction that you are trying to heal from can cause you to slip into those old patterns and behaviors.
Thanks!
Hi OneLess,
No real updates to provide. Did have a conversation about the D with STBX over the weekend, trying to get her to think about things like splitting off bills, and that type of thing. She was receptive to what I was saying, no arguments, and feel like we're generally on the same page as far as what is coming.
The thing that struck me during that conversation is that she made a comment that I've been different since I came back from the business trip, which I have been. I've finally let go and and I think she's picking up on that. I also feel truly happy for the first time in a long, long time, so I think she's picking up on that as well. I responded thanks and that I feel like I've found my old self again. She responded with something along the lines of you'll be the person I fell in love with after it's too late. Not really sure what to make of that if anything. I'm not really worried about it as I'm moving on with my life.
I still don't think she really gets what is happening, she's too wrapped up in her fog to understand, but if you've read my threads, you'll see that she hasn't been the typical WW either. She's never changed her behavior towards the kids or skirted on any of her repsonsibilities. Most of the time she's her usual self, she just disaapears from time to time to call OM, text OM, or leaves to see OM.
I'm sure she'll figure out what exactly she's done at some point, but time will tell.
hey LFM, sorry so quiet. I have been wondering how you are getting along.
How is the new place for you? how are the kids getting along. how have you been occupying your time?
swing by and give us an update?
Hi all, it's been a while since I've been on the board, and apologize for that. Things have been crazy busy...
Things are progressing slowly with the divorce, although I find myself questioning if that's right decision today. Not sure why I feel down, just am.
As far as the new house, it's been great. I really like where it's at, the views from the house in all directions are amazing - lots of open farm land and a couple of lakes in the view... I will be sad to have to turn around and sell it as we progress with the divorce.
STBX is still in her fog, still seeing the OM so no updates there.
For newer members to the board I do need to say I mad a very, very big mistake about a month and a half ago. I got involved with another woman... Saw her for about a month before breaking it off. I realized that I still have pretty strong feelings for my STBX and that it wasn't fair to her to not be able to be fully committed to a relationship that I wasn't ready for. It hurt her pretty badly as she was developing feelings for me, but I was also very honest and up front about my situation and that I may not be ready to move on. She admits she knew what she was getting herself into, but doesn't mean that it hurts any less.
My advice to any of you thinking about moving on before everything is settled in your prior relationship is don't do it. You're just setting yourself and the other person up for a lot of heartbreak. I know there's other advice along those lines on the board here, so please listen to it. I let myself fall into the trap of enjoying the fact that someone was paying attention to me and wanting to be with me, which I've missed for some time, but I wasn't ready for it.
Anyway hope everyone is doing well, I've got a lot of catching up to do, and will try to get caught up over the next couple of days.
LFM...its good that you recognized that you were not ready to move on and you broke it off. I think you/we will know if and when the time is right for that to happen. I know that we want our S's back and would rather move on with them in a new M and it wouldn't be fair to ourselves or the other person if we moved on too quickly. Hang in there!!