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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2682302#Post2682302I pull back and she pursues. I dont get it.
Two days ago she told me again she wants to leave and she doesnt want any physical contact with me. This is a few days after asking for MC and a few days before that saying she wants to leave.
So yesterday and today i dropped the rope. Did me a solid, went out and socialised, visited motorcycle dealership. Hanged out and have fun with S5. She was unaware of all of this by the way. My mindset was to get fully prepared for eventual separation and the big D.
Then she acts all nice and tonight she kissed me.
Someone please explain this to me.
I cant drop my guard, last time i did she went cold turkey and wanted to move out again.
I pull back and she pursues....
Then she acts all nice and tonight she kissed me.
Someone please explain this to me.
I cant drop my guard, last time i did she went cold turkey and wanted to move out again.
I don't have any more insight than you do... Finding the pursuit/distancing dance just as confusing as you even though it's an expected part of the script.
I suspect a big part of it is just that the WW is generally even more messed up emotionally than we are. And while we here slowly gain the benefit of introspection, increased detachment and great advice, the WW just keeps falling back to their same short-sighted patterns. No introspection or personal growth needed since everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault.
I'm no expert, but what she is doing seems to me like a classic example of temp checking.
I don't have any more insight than you do... Finding the pursuit/distancing dance just as confusing as you even though it's an expected part of the script.
I was taught that the male always leads in the dance.
I'm no expert, but what she is doing seems to me like a classic example of temp checking.
Is that what it is? Im not sure what she has to gain by temp checking as two days earlier she told me she wants out and doesnt want any physical contact with me.
I just, i cant deal with it. Right now im just going to assume she still wants to leave me and act accordingly.
I don't have any more insight than you do... Finding the pursuit/distancing dance just as confusing as you even though it's an expected part of the script.
I was taught that the male always leads in the dance.
I unfortunately have been pursuing when she asked for MC. Then she dashed my hopes up a few days later by telling me she still wants to leave. We havent even gone to MC yet.
Im done. If she wants back in the R she will have to work it cause i am done having my hopes of fixing my family dashed again.
Its time for me to be selfish.
She did it again this morning. She asked for a kiss before going off to work. Her new job today.
It just bothers me so much that i want her so badly yet know i cannot let my guard down anymore. I obliged but let her be the one to initiate which she did and kissed me on the lips.
Atleast this time im not deluding myself, i know we are not piecing.
Last night i couldnt take it, so i left for a drive. She asked noticed i got out of bed and put clothes on so she asked where i was going. Told her i couldnt sleep and headed out. Didnt do anything exciting. Ended up at my gm, did the books and deposit the sales. Some distraction atleast.
Tonight at least got midnight dinner plans with office. So got some GAL activity tonight.
Im itching to ride. I hope i qualify for the motorcycle loan.
Starting to GAL. Been out two nights in a row.
I dont know what happen though, i was more detached 2 weeks ago. This week its just a rollercoaster ride of emotions.
Natus, the grieving process isn't linear. And there will be loops back to emotions you thought you have processed.
Just try to make sure that your lows are not as low and you don't get stuck in any of the stages.
Natus, the grieving process isn't linear. And there will be loops back to emotions you thought you have processed.
Just try to make sure that your lows are not as low and you don't get stuck in any of the stages.
Coming to terms with that. Atleast i recognise it for what it is now.
Did any of you guys reach a stage where you are just wanting to GAL / fill up your calenders so you are not around the house/W?
I've been getting the itch to just GAL about bad this past week. I think partially because i've stopped trying to care what she thinks. Previously i was abit aprehensive to GAL cause i didnt want to seem like im just leaving the house willy nilly now though i just want to go.
Did any of you guys reach a stage where you are just wanting to GAL / fill up your calendars so you are not around the house/W?
Natus,
That sort-of happened to me. I became so tired of the nonsense that I couldn't take it anymore. I have two young sons so I couldn't go out and GAL anytime that I felt like it. Instead, I'd asked my to get out of the house (she was planning to move out, I just hastened the move). My GAL activities just naturally increased after that because there was so much that I wanted to do and so many things that needed to be done.
So, if your question is, "Did you ever feel the need to get away from the WW drama?", then my answer is a resounding YES!
Correction, that sentence should've said...
Instead, I'd asked my wife to get out of the house (she was planning to move out, I just hastened the move).
Yes GAL. Very important. GAL does not mean to go sleep around. It means to do healthy things that remove yourself from the stich. It helps a great deal. Just clean up and go.
Need to find my zen. This week my emotions have been all over the place.
On a fun note downloaded a Days without incident countdown app for my phone to monitor how long i can go without R talk, Pursuing, Arguments etc.
So unpredictable. I've been day dreaming what it be like to put house up for sale and go our separate ways.
I need to take more concrete steps to detach.
At this point we are almost always together after work, except if we have made dinner plans and or im at the gym.
A typical day is like this, come home from work, have dinner together, she tells me about her day and stuff. We read our son books to sleep. Watch a bit of TV, she goes to sleep. Other nights we go out for dinner and movie together with our son or go to her parents or my parents house.
Although she has asked for MC and says she wants to earn my trust back she has also said on two occasions now she cant stay, as in she wants to leave.
Should i stop having family dinners together? i see it works two ways a) i leave the house for my own dinner or b) ask her to leave the house c) not have dinner at same time.
Apart from dinner should i ensure i have plans or something or play with son and not initiate any convo.
Kinda hard to define where i am at, should i just assume we are in-house separation and act accordingly? I know my IC would advise against this. He would say why am i trying to push her away.
is there any way to detach without pushing her away?
Just reread the last bit - i shouldn't be concerned about pushing her away.
It sounds to me like you have a wife who is confused about what she wants, but who is still in the home and wanting to spend time with you. And she went NC with the OM and switched jobs to avoid him, right?
It doesn't seem to me that taking a hardline at this point is going to be helpful.
For me, I've found that detaching has less to do with how much time I'm spending with H and more about not letting his mood dictate mine or his actions determine what I do.
It can be a subtle thing. Instead of asking if he wants to do X, I tell him I am doing X and ask if he'd like to join. If he does, we go together. If he doesn't, I go alone or with a friend or with one of the kids, and I have a great time.
If I cut my hair, I don't ask if he likes it. Because that's not important.
If he's in a bad mood, I realize it probably has nothing to do with me, and I don't try to fix it. If he wants to talk about it, I listen, and I'm sympathetic. If he doesn't, I give him space for as long as he needs.
I mess up a lot, but it feels great when I get it right, and it doesn't require anything dramatic like leaving the house while he's having dinner.
Those are great points rose888. I guess im just reacting to everything internally ~ shes in a bad mood its my fault that kindof thing.
The other thing is shes never said she wants to work at our marriage, infact she has said the opposite. So that plays on my mind abit.
I dont actually know if she wants to spend time with me or just feels its the right thing to do. We have not had any alone time, always with Son or family so its never been about us.
Natus,
Although I'm familiar with your sitch, I didn't read the last few pages of your previous thread. If what Rose said is accurate, that WW went NC and quite job to get away from OM, then I agree with her wholeheartedly.
Let me ask you this, has your W done what you would need to let her back into the M?
If she recently went NC with OM, then she is processing a lot of emotions, and she is not always going to be happy, and she will make decision / say things based on emotions. Ignore those, if she wants to move out she will, if she wants a D she will file, barring those actions, what she says doesn't matter because just like you, her feelings change.
If she hasn't done what you would need to let her back in the M, (I'm not talking about showing remorse, apologizing, anything like that. I'm talking about stopped having A, seeing OM, etc), find a way to let her know what she would need to do in order to get back into your M, then be a lighthouse. if she wants safe port with you, she will know how to get there.
If she has done what you would need to let her back in the M, then this is where you need to be the biggest brightest light house ever. You need to be stable, safe, a place that she knows she can find because you are shining your light. Now would not be the time to have R talks, tell her how much your hurt, etc. Now is ONLY the time to validate, and be cool calm and collective.
Like Rose said, lose the mysterious, be open about what you are doing, tell her she's welcome to come, don't be afraid to be home with her, don't be afraid to talk about superficial things, spend time with son as a family. If her A has ended, now is the time that doing these things may make her realize it's with you that she wants to be.
you may want to give my thread a quick glance from this point going forward, lots of advise on what to do once the A has ended.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2681388&page=1
Those are great points rose888. I guess im just reacting to everything internally ~ shes in a bad mood its my fault that kindof thing.
The other thing is shes never said she wants to work at our marriage, infact she has said the opposite. So that plays on my mind abit.
I dont actually know if she wants to spend time with me or just feels its the right thing to do. We have not had any alone time, always with Son or family so its never been about us.
Sometimes we do what we feel is right and then the feelings follow.
I don't know if my H wants to be with me, either. But he's here and trying, so I'm going to give him all the time he is willing to take, in the hope that the feelings will return.
In your sitch, where she needs to get over an EA, I would assume it's normal for it to take longer for feelings to return. It might be that she is doing all she can at the moment, that just staying IS her best effort.
I know it's agonizing. I keep reminding myself to take the long view.
Thanks Coconut and Rose888.
My IC would say the same thing, shes present, shes trying even though she says otherwise, shes changed job. Essentially shes done is doing the work for me to let her in.
Provided shes not contacting him in secret ~that is something that plays on my mind too although this is probably my paranoia talking. Thankfully im no longer reacting to this anymore. Have resisted temptations to snoop.
Part of my anxiety i would say is her not letting me in.
I guess for now i should just work on being the lighthouse. Workout my feelings for myself and try not to let anxiety, paranoia or anger dictate my day.
Bad week in terms of GAL and Detaching.
Still going to gym and enjoying that but not much else. I still care way to much how my W feels.
I finally asked her if we can set a date for MC since she asked. Man it was like trying to pull a nail from a board. Litany of reasons why we should wait right etc money, work, festive season, timing. In the end i asked if we could just "pick" a date in near future and work towards that. So we will go to our first MC in 3 weeks from now.
I should have just left it be at that but noo i had to initiate an R talk. I basically asked if she still wants to go cause even though she is the one that asked for it there has been nothing but excuses everytime i bring it up.
In the end she admitted that part of her reason for asking for MC was to see if it would help us separate amicably but she also says she doesnt know the outcome i.e still unsure.
We will be visiting families this week with Eid. Going to be spending alot of time together. Plus she wants to go for a road trip together on weekend. I need to set myself a goal to be super detach and super validate.
Bad week in terms of GAL and Detaching.
Still going to gym and enjoying that but not much else. I still care way to much how my W feels.
I finally asked her if we can set a date for MC since she asked. Man it was like trying to pull a nail from a board. Litany of reasons why we should wait right etc money, work, festive season, timing. In the end i asked if we could just "pick" a date in near future and work towards that. So we will go to our first MC in 3 weeks from now.
I should have just left it be at that but noo i had to initiate an R talk. I basically asked if she still wants to go cause even though she is the one that asked for it there has been nothing but excuses everytime i bring it up.
In the end she admitted that part of her reason for asking for MC was to see if it would help us separate amicably but she also says she doesnt know the outcome i.e still unsure.
We will be visiting families this week with Eid. Going to be spending alot of time together. Plus she wants to go for a road trip together on weekend. I need to set myself a goal to be super detach and super validate.
Mc in my sitch was a disaster. She did as your W said , to work an amicable split.
I was thinking more repair she was in the split as friends thinking. She'll use the mc to confirm her feelings and validate her leaving. Very few mc's will put in the effort to work over the ww/waw , because most don't value M ... Just there to help you with self discovery and work on the "communication".
You'd probably be better off not going , she's not in that frame of mind now.
Mc will be a waste of time if she is not interested in engaging in the marriage at this time. I suggest you go by yourself and be very mysterious when she inevitably starts asking about the sessions. I dragged my WH to MC right after the affair was uncovered and it was disastrous. However recently my WH requested for us to start MC as he now wants to piece. I am actually holding off until he moves here permanently because it will be ineffective if we can only attend one session a month.
After thinking about it for 24hrs i feel that i dont want her there either.
Tomorrow is Eid here in Brunei, annual ritual to visit all our family members. It just hit me and i feel like im having a panick attack. How am i suppose to go house to house of both my and her relatives and pretend we are a happy family unit. She wants to leave me and has no desire to work for the M.
I want to tell her to go alone. To go do her half and ill go do my half of the family. Of all days i sent my car to workshop today. We are even suppose to go on a road trip together this weekend.
I have to come to terms that she doesnt want me as her husband.
Dont trust anything she says and only 50% of what she does. Well she talks about leaving and having no feelings for me. She makes family plans with me, asks me to accompany her to appointments and stuff, shopping and dinning together.
Gah! trying to understand where my sich is seriously making me want to murder someone right now.
What is your overall plan? I'm sure it is to reconcile, but what is your plan in getting there? Have you broken it down in smaller steps? If you have a plan, you follow the plan, not just see what hits next.
Like......how to interact with her, and how to address these things she wants you to do? If you don't have a real plan that directs you, then every little thing she tells you is going to be a panic crisis for you.
What is your overall plan? I'm sure it is to reconcile, but what is your plan in getting there? Have you broken it down in smaller steps? If you have a plan, you follow the plan, not just see what hits next.
Like......how to interact with her, and how to address these things she wants you to do? If you don't have a real plan that directs you, then every little thing she tells you is going to be a panic crisis for you.
Well my plan was work towards NC or going dark, then she asked me for MC which made me think she wants to give it a shot. So i pulled back on NC.
Now i know she doesnt really want to give it a shot. Im planless.
Right now i have to decide which way im going to go tomorrow. a) suck it up and do the family thing b) tell her i cant do it. She can tell her mum and rest of her family members why i am not there.
First one sounds like me. I'd endure stoically. The latter feels weak but hey next year we might not be together anyway so what difference will it make.
Natus,
You could weasel out of it; just feign illness and don't go at all. Cough, cough, cough...
Present day - W trying NC OM. Still WW/WAW.
What is meant by "W trying NC OM"? Is she trying to not contact the OM, or is she trying to work on the MR?
The other thing is shes never said she wants to work at our marriage, infact she has said the opposite. So that plays on my mind abit.
I dont actually know if she wants to spend time with me or just feels its the right thing to do. We have not had any alone time, always with Son or family so its never been about us.
Well, I suppose that answers my questions.
I have to come to terms that she doesnt want me as her husband.
Well she talks about leaving and having no feelings for me. She makes family plans with me, asks me to accompany her to appointments and stuff, shopping and dinning together.
If you've come to terms, what's the problem in doing just what you want to do and not worry about what she says?
Right now i have to decide which way im going to go tomorrow. a) suck it up and do the family thing b) tell her i cant do it. She can tell her mum and rest of her family members why i am not there.
First one sounds like me. I'd endure stoically. The latter feels weak but hey next year we might not be together anyway so what difference will it make.
Actually, the first sounds like you b/c you are trained to suck it up and do whatever your W tells you. That's a nice-guy type of H. And, it is not the one that will make you look strong. You tell yourself it is strong, maybe to ease your own emotions, but you are resentful inside. It is much harder for you to do the second one, and even harder if you don't tell her some b.s. excuse about having something to do, and just tell her you aren't interested in going on a vacation with a woman who doesn't want to be your W. That takes bigger b@lls.
You see, you can decide if you want to take the soft route or the tough route......and it will solve having to make these individual panic type decisions. Instead of you saying, "I
feel like telling her.......", you just refer back to which route is on your map. The first is simple. You just serve up cake for her and do whatever she says, and try to keep her in a good mood, and walk on eggshells. But wait......isn't that what you've previously done? The second is rather simple, too. Instead of
thinking what you'd
like to tell her.......you just tell her, and go on about your life. She caused this mess. Now, she has to put on her big girl panties and clean it up!
Hey doodler - I just popped by to update my own thread.
I think that for Eid that it would require a death-certificate and pictures of the corpse to get out of a lot of the family obligations that go around that holiday. It varies from family to family I'm sure and not being a follower of the Prophet myself I'm only seeing it from the outside.
Good luck Natus. I know in my own sitch that we are still in many ways acting like a couple to the outside world. It does make things less complex while we try to work out where we are going. Otherwise you are inviting all of the friends, neighbours and relatives to take sides on what is probably for you also a very private matter.
I think that for Eid that it would require a death-certificate and pictures of the corpse to get out of a lot of the family obligations that go around that holiday. It varies from family to family I'm sure and not being a follower of the Prophet myself I'm only seeing it from the outside.
AndrewP,
It sounds a lot like Christmas.
Present day - W trying NC OM. Still WW/WAW.
What is meant by "W trying NC OM"? Is she trying to not contact the OM, or is she trying to work on the MR?
The other thing is shes never said she wants to work at our marriage, infact she has said the opposite. So that plays on my mind abit.
I dont actually know if she wants to spend time with me or just feels its the right thing to do. We have not had any alone time, always with Son or family so its never been about us.
Well, I suppose that answers my questions.
I shud probably update my sig by now. She has gone NC, she was doing well the week leading up to the job move, im guessing things fizzled out a little bit and i know OM was pissing her off because lack of leadership ability at the office. He lets other staff get away with insubordination. All this while its the W who has carried the branch. I am digressing though.
Since job move. Exactly 1 week. She has no contact whatsoever with OM. However still early days. its only been a week.
I have to come to terms that she doesnt want me as her husband.
Well she talks about leaving and having no feelings for me. She makes family plans with me, asks me to accompany her to appointments and stuff, shopping and dinning together.
If you've come to terms, what's the problem in doing just what you want to do and not worry about what she says?
I havnt come to terms yet. Im trying too. I try to and then she pulls me back in. For instance she asked for no physical touch and practically told me she wants to leave. So i go dark, two days later she kisses me.
I admit, its probably weakness on my part letting her pull me back in.
Right now i have to decide which way im going to go tomorrow. a) suck it up and do the family thing b) tell her i cant do it. She can tell her mum and rest of her family members why i am not there.
First one sounds like me. I'd endure stoically. The latter feels weak but hey next year we might not be together anyway so what difference will it make.
Actually, the first sounds like you b/c you are trained to suck it up and do whatever your W tells you. That's a nice-guy type of H. And, it is not the one that will make you look strong. You tell yourself it is strong, maybe to ease your own emotions, but you are resentful inside. It is much harder for you to do the second one, and even harder if you don't tell her some b.s. excuse about having something to do, and just tell her you aren't interested in going on a vacation with a woman who doesn't want to be your W. That takes bigger b@lls.
You see, you can decide if you want to take the soft route or the tough route......and it will solve having to make these individual panic type decisions. Instead of you saying, "I
feel like telling her.......", you just refer back to which route is on your map. The first is simple. You just serve up cake for her and do whatever she says, and try to keep her in a good mood, and walk on eggshells. But wait......isn't that what you've previously done? The second is rather simple, too. Instead of
thinking what you'd
like to tell her.......you just tell her, and go on about your life. She caused this mess. Now, she has to put on her big girl panties and clean it up!
Telling her to stuff it for EID is major. This would be an ultimatum move. While i flirt with the idea im probably not ready yet or maybe i am but afraid to pull the trigger.
Shes changed job, 1 week now. Shes done everything i ask except for change her feelings for me for the better.
I am going to however go work on my plan. I agree i've been pretty much winging it.
I think that for Eid that it would require a death-certificate and pictures of the corpse to get out of a lot of the family obligations that go around that holiday. It varies from family to family I'm sure and not being a follower of the Prophet myself I'm only seeing it from the outside.
AndrewP,
It sounds a lot like Christmas.
If christmas you had to go to each of your relatives houses (both sides) one by one.
When did you guys decide to go hard/tough route?
I was tough on the EA and OM but soft on everything else. Now that shes changed job and NC with OM i am not sure what my plan is.
What she says:
She says she wants to leave, asked for mc only later to admit to see if we can break up amicably then says shes grey about it as in who knows what will happen.
What she does:
Changed jobs
NC with OM
Makes me coffee and breakfast.
Transparent. Comes home on-time or tells me if she is going to be late.
Includes me in her plans except if its girls night which is very not often.
Offered to go halfsies on fixing my car.
=============================================================
What do you guys see?
Sometime i feel like i want to take the tough route but i recognise that im driven a little bit by anger. What are good examples of going tough routes without ending up issuing ultimatums?
When did you guys decide to go hard/tough route?
I was tough on the EA and OM but soft on everything else. Now that shes changed job and NC with OM i am not sure what my plan is.
What she says:
She says she wants to leave, asked for mc only later to admit to see if we can break up amicably then says shes grey about it as in who knows what will happen.
What she does:
Changed jobs
NC with OM
Makes me coffee and breakfast.
Transparent. Comes home on-time or tells me if she is going to be late.
Includes me in her plans except if its girls night which is very not often.
Offered to go halfsies on fixing my car.
=============================================================
What do you guys see?
Sometime i feel like i want to take the tough route but i recognise that im driven a little bit by anger. What are good examples of going tough routes without ending up issuing ultimatums?
Is it really nc with om?
Sounds like a roommate , things that a roommate would be considerate enough to do.
Little cake eating if your available for these activities when she wants you there.
Jmho but anger can be good when channeled correctly.
Natus - I think you're doing great. Even though I've walked a different path I think we are in a similar crossroad at present.
In my case my WW still hasn't told me that her A is over - she actually has rarely talked to me about emotional issues over the 27 years that we've been married so I only have speculation to go on. She is also an intensely private person even with me which has certainly made being married to her difficult for all these years.
After I presumed the A was over though, like your W, mine would go on and on about leaving and how she had such great support from friends etc but she wouldn't actually DO anything. I have no idea why that would be but perhaps it's part of what I think of as a disconnect between the fairy-tale land she's been living in and "Realsville". Perhaps Scheherazade is believing her own stories ;-) Personally I found it very draining and frustrating.
So - in an attempt to take control of the agenda I had a preliminary meeting with a L (which she discovered when looking at our bank account) which put a bit of a scare into her that I was getting serious. Her noticing that prompted me to give her a letter that I had been sweating blood over for several weeks that I had been delaying giving to her for fear of what it could trigger. In it I spend 90% of it telling her how much I loved her and how much her behaviour had hurt me but that I had stood by her regardless. I asked her to reconcile and work with me to build a new MR. I also had one sentence in there where I said that if she did not want to reconcile or could not decide in a "reasonable time" - maybe should have had an actual date on there - that I would act to end the marriage.
After she read the letter she asked to be able to think about it and since then (2 weeks now) has not talked about leaving. Mind you, she hasn't talked about staying either. This was a major shift because the night before she had gone on in great detail about the fact that she was definitely leaving. In the mean-time I've been accumulating the forms and documentation needed for a divorce so that I can pull that trigger if I need to. One big thing that that letter has done for "me" is to make me feel like I have more control over the agenda which it sounds like you are feeling frustrated with as well. For me, I was emotionally unable to go the "tough" ultimatum route that many people suggested to me but I feel that what I did has set a firm direction. You could call what I did an ultimatum but I feel that it was delivered in a loving, caring way and W certainly has paid attention to it.
Natus,
Go back and read the lighthouse story, that is really what you need to be doing right now. Your W is going to grieve over the OM, now is not the time to pressure or persue her, give her space. You stand tall, confident, happy, and show that things are good on your side of the M, let her want to be on your side of the M. I wouldn't talk about or go to MC until she has expressed remorse and the desire to work on the MR.
Don't isolate her, if you are doing something invite her, but don't pressure her to go, just let her know she is welcome to join. If she makes you breakfast, thank her and enjoy. If your making breakfast and she is around, ask her if she would like you to make her some.
You don't want to isolate her right now, you want to be supportive but only when she comes to you for support, let her initiate conversations (unless you are just saying hello, goodbye, etc.), and when she initiates conversation talk to her, validate, no pressure.
Sometime i feel like i want to take the tough route but i recognise that im driven a little bit by anger. What are good examples of going tough routes without ending up issuing ultimatums?
Not compromising your integrity. Standing strong for what you believe is right, and do not negotiate with what is wrong.
Setting boundaries and enforcing consequences if they are not honored.
Do not avoid conflict with your W. Stand up to her and show no fear.
Do not go out of your way or be self-sacrificing, to
please your W (
especially when she's wayward).
Let the self-confidence ooze with every fiber in your body.
Do not take on the responsibility of "making her happy".
Stop agreeing with everything she says. Learn to say, "no". Immediately address the issues you have a problem with.
Do no be defensive.
Stop trying to "explain" yourself to your W, in hopes it will stop her from getting angry at you.
Do not accept being the center of her jokes, her rudeness, or her put-downs of you. No eye-rolling, talking to you through the kids, or slamming things around to show her bad attitude. You need to have personal boundaries about these types of treatment from her (or anyone else).
Stop letting your W always run the show (being the boss). You are the man with the b@lls, so don't be afraid to take charge.
Do not show that you are seeking approval, especially
her approval.
Do not meekly accept her, "Well, you'll just have to settle with ______ (fill in the blank with some attitude/behavior/action). You always have a choice.
Never play the victim. Do not make her so-called "needs" your priority while she's being disrespectful, b'tchy, manipulative, etc. Do not give more than she's giving back, until she changes her attitude/behavior.
Do not be passive! I can't say it enough......NEVER be passive-aggressive. It is sooooo unattractive.
Are you ready for me to stop?
Some of these statements may sound like a good case for argument. (Especially if some woman reads this who has/had an unkind H). However, I didn't go into detail, and kept it blunt. If you have the nice guy syndrome, your antenna may go up and say, "But this doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I have always......." This is not about becoming an a$$. It's about showing strength in the interaction with your WW. You will need to read/study about the NG syndrome. The Internet is full of information just waiting for you. You don't have to stop being a
nice person and become a jerk. You don't need to go the extreme opposite. It's one thing to be a good person, a polite and kind person. But the NG
Syndrome is not a good thing, and it's not what women want in a H. Any woman who has been M to a man who has the NGS, knows what I am talking about. It kills her attraction for him.
Your W is not all the way back from her waywardness. She is doing some things you have asked from her, but her feelings aren't coming around yet. These next weeks are very crucial. I promise you, she will be attracted to the your new interaction....if you apply correctly. Women want their man to be stronger than she is. She may never tell you in words, and in fact, she'll likely buck up about it at first. B/c her way has reigned for so long that she's not going to like giving up her power over you. But once she is convinced that you are going to stand nose to nose and not back down in fear or anger....she'll start to respect you in her heart, at least. Eventually, she'll start to respect you in attitude and behavior. You simply must set boundaries!!
[quote]Sometime i feel like i want to take the tough route but i recognise that im driven a little bit by anger. What are good examples of going tough routes without ending up issuing ultimatums?
Not compromising your integrity. Standing strong for what you believe is right, and do not negotiate with what is wrong.
Setting boundaries and enforcing consequences if they are not honored.
Do not avoid conflict with your W. Stand up to her and show no fear.
</quote>
Lately i have been avoiding confict except for anything to do with OM or any wayward behaviour, that is a line that i have clearly drawn and have zero tolerance for.
Do not go out of your way or be self-sacrificing, to
please your W (
especially when she's wayward).
Let the self-confidence ooze with every fiber in your body.
Do not take on the responsibility of "making her happy".
</quote>
I admit i tend to self-sacrifice alot and not just for her but for my work, sports team, family, her family etc. Despite that i am considered a hard man, go figure. I adopted her sisters son and gave her sister (ex-con ex-drug addict) a job and yet im the self righteous one.
[quote=sandi2]
Stop agreeing with everything she says. Learn to say, "no". Immediately address the issues you have a problem with.
Do no be defensive.
Stop trying to "explain" yourself to your W, in hopes it will stop her from getting angry at you.
</quote>
This is an area i need to work on hard. Not so much on the agreeing part but being defensive and explaining myself.
[quote=sandi2]
Do not accept being the center of her jokes, her rudeness, or her put-downs of you. No eye-rolling, talking to you through the kids, or slamming things around to show her bad attitude. You need to have personal boundaries about these types of treatment from her (or anyone else).
</quote>
So far this hasnt been an issue. Her actions towards me are nice sprinkled in with some distance every now and then.
She does call me "daddy" instead "darling".
[quote=sandi2]
Stop letting your W always run the show (being the boss). You are the man with the b@lls, so don't be afraid to take charge.
</quote>
She tends to look to me to lead. This part not so much an issue. Im more struggling with how to strike a balance. Lead without seeming like its about me or my way all the time.
[quote=sandi2]
Do not show that you are seeking approval, especially
her approval.
Do not meekly accept her, "Well, you'll just have to settle with ______ (fill in the blank with some attitude/behavior/action). You always have a choice.
Never play the victim. Do not make her so-called "needs" your priority while she's being disrespectful, b'tchy, manipulative, etc. Do not give more than she's giving back, until she changes her attitude/behavior.
Do not be passive! I can't say it enough......NEVER be passive-aggressive. It is sooooo unattractive.
</quote>
Her behaviour has been nice and i am nice in turn. Im also nice when she is being distant.
She knows i wont settle for friendship. I have made that abundantly clear.
[quote=sandi2]
Are you ready for me to stop?
Some of these statements may sound like a good case for argument. (Especially if some woman reads this who has/had an unkind H). However, I didn't go into detail, and kept it blunt. If you have the nice guy syndrome, your antenna may go up and say, "But this doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I have always......." This is not about becoming an a$$. It's about showing strength in the interaction with your WW. You will need to read/study about the NG syndrome. The Internet is full of information just waiting for you. You don't have to stop being a
nice person and become a jerk. You don't need to go the extreme opposite. It's one thing to be a good person, a polite and kind person. But the NG
Syndrome is not a good thing, and it's not what women want in a H. Any woman who has been M to a man who has the NGS, knows what I am talking about. It kills her attraction for him.
Your W is not all the way back from her waywardness. She is doing some things you have asked from her, but her feelings aren't coming around yet. These next weeks are very crucial. I promise you, she will be attracted to the your new interaction....if you apply correctly. Women want their man to be stronger than she is. She may never tell you in words, and in fact, she'll likely buck up about it at first. B/c her way has reigned for so long that she's not going to like giving up her power over you. But once she is convinced that you are going to stand nose to nose and not back down in fear or anger....she'll start to respect you in her heart, at least. Eventually, she'll start to respect you in attitude and behavior. You simply must set boundaries!!
No dont stop
these are all great points and allows me to compare where i am at in my sich.
I think i am a NG, i dont know if the W does.
Sandhi, what do you think at this stage if i be more assertive, flirty, alpha male, pursue? past few weeks i've been trying to give her some space.
bugger. screwed up the format. let me try again.
Not compromising your integrity. Standing strong for what you believe is right, and do not negotiate with what is wrong.
Setting boundaries and enforcing consequences if they are not honored.
Do not avoid conflict with your W. Stand up to her and show no fear.
Do not go out of your way or be self-sacrificing, to please your W (especially when she's wayward).
Lately i have been avoiding confict except for anything to do with OM or any wayward behaviour, that is a line that i have clearly drawn and have zero tolerance for.
I admit i tend to self-sacrifice alot and not just for her but for my work, sports team, family, her family etc. Despite that i am considered a hard man, go figure. I adopted her sisters son and gave her sister (ex-con ex-drug addict) a job and yet im the self righteous one.
Let the self-confidence ooze with every fiber in your body.
Do not take on the responsibility of "making her happy".
Stop agreeing with everything she says. Learn to say, "no". Immediately address the issues you have a problem with.
Do no be defensive.
Stop trying to "explain" yourself to your W, in hopes it will stop her from getting angry at you.
This is an area i need to work on hard. Not so much on the agreeing part but being defensive and explaining myself.
Do not accept being the center of her jokes, her rudeness, or her put-downs of you. No eye-rolling, talking to you through the kids, or slamming things around to show her bad attitude. You need to have personal boundaries about these types of treatment from her (or anyone else).
So far this hasnt been an issue. Her actions towards me are nice sprinkled in with some distance every now and then.
She does call me "daddy" instead "darling".
Stop letting your W always run the show (being the boss). You are the man with the b@lls, so don't be afraid to take charge.
She tends to look to me to lead. This part not so much an issue. Im more struggling with how to strike a balance. Lead without seeming like its about me or my way all the time.
Do not show that you are seeking approval, especially her approval.
Do not meekly accept her, "Well, you'll just have to settle with ______ (fill in the blank with some attitude/behavior/action). You always have a choice. Never play the victim.
Do not make her so-called "needs" your priority while she's being disrespectful, b'tchy, manipulative, etc. Do not give more than she's giving back, until she changes her attitude/behavior.
Do not be passive! I can't say it enough......NEVER be passive-aggressive. It is sooooo unattractive.
Her behaviour has been nice and i am nice in turn. Im also nice when she is being distant.
She knows i wont settle for friendship. I have made that abundantly clear.
Are you ready for me to stop? smile Some of these statements may sound like a good case for argument. (Especially if some woman reads this who has/had an unkind H). However, I didn't go into detail, and kept it blunt. If you have the nice guy syndrome, your antenna may go up and say, "But this doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I have always......." This is not about becoming an a$$. It's about showing strength in the interaction with your WW. You will need to read/study about the NG syndrome. The Internet is full of information just waiting for you. You don't have to stop being a nice person and become a jerk. You don't need to go the extreme opposite. It's one thing to be a good person, a polite and kind person. But the NG Syndrome is not a good thing, and it's not what women want in a H. Any woman who has been M to a man who has the NGS, knows what I am talking about. It kills her attraction for him.
Your W is not all the way back from her waywardness. She is doing some things you have asked from her, but her feelings aren't coming around yet. These next weeks are very crucial. I promise you, she will be attracted to the your new interaction....if you apply correctly. Women want their man to be stronger than she is. She may never tell you in words, and in fact, she'll likely buck up about it at first. B/c her way has reigned for so long that she's not going to like giving up her power over you. But once she is convinced that you are going to stand nose to nose and not back down in fear or anger....she'll start to respect you in her heart, at least. Eventually, she'll start to respect you in attitude and behavior. You simply must set boundaries!!
No dont stop smile these are all great points and allows me to compare where i am at in my sich.
I think i am a NG, i dont know if the W does.
Sandhi, what do you think at this stage if i be more assertive, flirty, alpha male, pursue? past few weeks i've been trying to give her some space.
AndrewP and Coconut, thank you for your comments too.
Im probably no where near your stage yet Coconut, if i ever get there. I have a hard time believing things will get better M wise to be honest but i have to give it my all atleast.
If i was a lighthouse i would be emanating blood red luminescence.
2 weeks ago i was Zen, felt good, detached. Then came neediness and sadness. Now its anger, i want to howl at the moon and maim the villagers.
I was on a good trajectory and let myself get derailed by guessing this and that and mind reading and just reacting to everything.
I need to start back from square 1.
Sandhi, what do you think at this stage if i be more assertive, flirty, alpha male, pursue? past few weeks i've been trying to give her some space.
Would you know when to be assertive? Can you picture yourself being assertive? Do you know what you would do with her resistance or strong opposition?
Flirty? Certainly nothing sexual. Not knowing your style of flirting or exactly how you mean this, it's hard to say go for it. The time doesn't seem right to me, since she wants to leave you. Maybe you can explain more to me.
Pursue.........certainly not! Why would you?
Alpha male? Sure! If you can handle it. If you really understand how. Have you googled these subjects?
My suggestion is to focus on the things I previously listed. What makes me nervous is why you would insert the flirting and pursuing. Most W's like flirting, but not when she's deciding to stay or leave him. Timing is everything!
Sandhi, what do you think at this stage if i be more assertive, flirty, alpha male, pursue? past few weeks i've been trying to give her some space.
Would you know when to be assertive? Can you picture yourself being assertive? Do you know what you would do with her resistance or strong opposition?
Flirty? Certainly nothing sexual. Not knowing your style of flirting or exactly how you mean this, it's hard to say go for it. The time doesn't seem right to me, since she wants to leave you. Maybe you can explain more to me.
Pursue.........certainly not! Why would you?
Alpha male? Sure! If you can handle it. If you really understand how. Have you googled these subjects?
My suggestion is to focus on the things I previously listed. What makes me nervous is why you would insert the flirting and pursuing. Most W's like flirting, but not when she's deciding to stay or leave him. Timing is everything!
Hi Sandi. Kindof agreed. When i wrote this i was wondering how i should plan my way forward. After munching on it for 24hours im going to start from scratch except this time without the nice guy routine.
Not saying i wont be nice, just not going to go out my way to please or prove to her anything.
Im naturally and alpha male,if anything i take great pain to step it down a notch. Luckily as a kickboxing competitor and instructor i do get to flex that muscle often.
As for being flirty, its something i was good at over a decade ago (pre-M) though like you said timing may not be right now.
I am all over the place on the inside.
One moment im okay then next im not. I think i have done well no to show it though.
This is why ladies and gents you GAL. Cause if you dont you'll go crazy.
Im good with boundaries but horrible at letting go.
I dont know if i can drop the rope with her still in the house. I still act all husbandy, I make coffee, dinner, pick up son Want to ask her about her day etc.
I care way to much.
(((Natus)))
Letting go is not easy. Don't be too hard on yourself.
I am almost 1 year post D and I still find myself spiralling and swinging. The good news is that I dont swing or spiral so much and I know what to do when I find myself in the slumps.
I guess letting go is a process and a journey.
Not saying i wont be nice, just not going to go out my way to please or prove to her anything.
The niceness isn't the problem, really. It is the NGS that is the problem. Maybe you can set a daily goal of not caving in to your need to have her approval.
Not saying i wont be nice, just not going to go out my way to please or prove to her anything.
The niceness isn't the problem, really. It is the NGS that is the problem. Maybe you can set a daily goal of not caving in to your need to have her approval.
I havent thought if it that way.
Caving in to the need for her approval. I can be nice and pleasant and down right hubby but its just cause thats how i want to approach my day. I want to be happy.
Taking a step to drop the NGS syndrome.
She asked me if it was okay for her to go have a girls night out Sat. (She asks for permission so that a good thing right?). Told her i had plans to go out Sat night but i would watch son tonight so she could go spinning with her sisters.
Before i would watch son for both times. Planning to get some GAL in sat night. Couple of ladies from work want to bring me indoor rock climbing.
Planning to get some GAL in sat night. Couple of ladies from work want to bring me indoor rock climbing.
Natus,
That sounds like fun! I hope you're intending to invite me to go along. Can smiley face girl come too?
We separated on Thursday during a long weekend.
It feels like BD all over again except this time im numb.
I flirt back between reveling at my newfound freedom and extreme heartache for the dead M and my little boy. One one hand endless opportunities to pursue my dreams and goals without guilt and walking and eggshells but on the other i would trade it all away and a few limbs if have to just to have my family back together again.
She makes it easier for me to detach though, she seemed pleased, ready and had no qualm's. Didnt even put up a fight when i left the house the with my son.
Her family and mum has been messaging me to be patient, i tell them i have put up with this for last 5 months. I can do no longer, not when shes not interested in trying at all.
I have my boy for the next 3 days. Then im alone for 3days and repeat.
Currently we have agreed that i will have the house Sunday PM to Weds Am and then she will have the house Weds Pm to Sunday AM.
On days i am not there i am staying at my parents (cause big house) and she will do the same at her parents (well thats what shes saying now)
Basically my Son will still be in-house through out. Its a temporary arrangement as we havent discussed what we are doing with the house yet. I feel i need some time before that discussion takes place however im worried my son may have false hope all though this is the most comfortable solution for him now, he has his home, his bed, his toys etc.
Ill be talking to IC later to go through everything.
Natus, I feel for you brother. Although I'm in a similar situation (in house separation) we don't have a young child together. I can only imagine the difficulty in trying not only to figure out what is best for you, but also having to weigh that with your sons needs.
I firmly believe there is no way back, not only from her actions but the thorough hurt she has caused i feel is irreparable.
Her family is expecting me to be patient, Im trying to tell them there is nothing there to be patient for. Her mother actually visited to see son and basically asked me to have patience. Its a little awkward when i am not the one who wants this (although now i do - cause living together and not getting anywhere was hell).
My IC expects me to be super nice, helpful, all around great guy for the xW. I think i can only manage cordial when we do meet up but thankfully this week there is no reason too see her, she will pick him up from school on the mid week so no handover required.
Going to complete my first week of physical separation. I've been preparing for this for weeks if not months but still feels horrible.
This morning i dropped son to school and wont see him till Sunday. Its her turn w him now. No handover as she will pick him up from school so i wont need to see her.
Desperately need to make plans this next 4 days cause ill be alone until its my turn with son again.
I've essentially gone LRT and kept any msg response short and business like. shes doing the same too now.
She always follows my lead in everything. Even the separation, she wanted it but i had to be the one to initiate it (for my sanity).
Hi, just curious. Why is her family asking you to be patient? Do they have any grounds for doing so?
My IC expects me to be super nice, helpful, all around great guy for the xW.
Maybe you need to find another IC.
Hi, just curious. Why is her family asking you to be patient? Do they have any grounds for doing so?
They seem to think if i be patient the W might come around. I doubt it. Shes completely indifferent to me. I am just stifling her well i was until we separated.
My IC expects me to be super nice, helpful, all around great guy for the xW.
Maybe you need to find another IC.
Where i am from there arnt any choices. Hes the only i know of in my whole state.
I really need to follow the 24hr rule. First week of separation and was feeling down driving to my parents house from work.
Separated from her i can deal. Separated from my son feels like a punishment. So on the way home i texted her.
"I hate i being away from my son. Im liking it alot less that im doing it to please your want to split up" and that lead to a bunch of texts back and forth.
Yah not great right. I should have waited til after gym to process my thoughts and feelings. Still doesnt help that i go to sleep alone and when i wake im not there to help my son get ready for school.
What's the 24 hour rule?
Sorry to hear your pain. It truly [censored].
What's the 24 hour rule?
Sorry to hear your pain. It truly [censored].
Wait 24hr-48hrs instead of acting out immediately on your emotions.
Which i should have done, I felt less emotional after gym. So now im changing it to
go to gym first before you talk rule
I noticed i only post about the doom and gloom.
Good stuff has happened but maybe i am just not paying attention to it.
So i feel great now that i dont feel guilty coming home late from gym. Noones waiting for me.
Got a little cactus plant for my office table,never been a green person before, i didnt know i could be so sentimental. Might have to hand in my Man Card.
GAL, going indoor rock climbing tonight with female work colleague.
Another female colleague has asked me to drive with her across state. Road trip.
Met a LBW whose into Harley Motorcycles. We just text chat and about motorcycles.
My only problem here is i have no dude frens. They are all married with kids.
I hear you about not having your s around. It's really tough to adjust, especially since we didnt sugn up for this.
But it's good that you're revving up your GAL.
Funny but I have the same problem as you. I don't have any dude friends as they're all married and unavailable. Well, for me, it means that I need to haul my butt and go looking for them.
What do you think you can do if you feel like having some bro- company?
Sign up... fat fingers. Must be a sign for me to ramp up my physical activities.
Damn just read C-Nut post about finally getting proof of ongoing A. That threw me for a loop and caused me to start wondering if She is in contact with OM even though she denies it.
Good thing i have a ladies self defense class to teach in 10 mins. That should take my mind off.
Today is hard. Even after all the distractions. I [censored] love her but i have to cast her out my heart and mind.
I feel for my boy and it breaks my heart when he tears up and asks "wheres Mummy?". I cant answer him. I just say "its okay i love you".
If it was just me i'd go dark and cast it all away but i cant. I have to deal with my Son's broken heart too. That hurts me more than anything. I have to stop myself from thinking about it when im out in public lest the tears come forth.
Sorry rant.
I need to work on my triggers.
I've identified my triggers:
1 - HER. On the top of the list. Seeing her drags up feelings.
2 - Silence, i use to love silence but now my mind wonders to her and my sich. So i've been listening to 90s Pop Rock ~ cheesy breakup songs arnt just for movies.
3 - Looking up her last seen online when on my phone. Need to stop that.
4 - Feeling the need to check her social media. Im proud that im starting to stop that. Plus she hasnt updated at all since separation. Go figure, before she use to always take selfies and posting on instagram.
Going wall climb tonight and bringing wee Son. Hope he has fun.
Hey Natus, so here's the thing that you need to learn, like Coconut, self-control...
1 - HER. On the top of the list. Seeing her drags up feelings.
DON'T SEE HER.
2 - Silence, i use to love silence but now my mind wonders to her and my sich. So i've been listening to 90s Pop Rock ~ cheesy breakup songs arnt just for movies.
Music speaks to your soul, listen for positive messages, not wishy washy love longs. Listen to music that you've never listened to before, forma new identity, new memories.
3 - Looking up her last seen online when on my phone. Need to stop that.
STOP THAT.
4 - Feeling the need to check her social media. Im proud that im starting to stop that. Plus she hasnt updated at all since separation. Go figure, before she use to always take selfies and posting on instagram.
DELETE ALL SOCIAL MEDIA APPS FROM YOUR PHONE. You want to be free, then free yourself from society, and just be alone. You will die alone.
Today is hard. Even after all the distractions. I [censored] love her but i have to cast her out my heart and mind.
I feel for my boy and it breaks my heart when he tears up and asks "wheres Mummy?". I cant answer him. I just say "its okay i love you".
If it was just me i'd go dark and cast it all away but i cant. I have to deal with my Son's broken heart too. That hurts me more than anything. I have to stop myself from thinking about it when im out in public lest the tears come forth.
Sorry rant.
As for this rant, feel your emotions, cry like there's no tomorrow - but remember that there is a tomorrow... mmmhhhh.
Do you want your son remembering his father on his knees crying for a woman that does not love him, or a strong confident man that will not accept the hand that he was dealt, but will forge his own path in life.
Do not cry for her, she does not cry for you. Do not cry for your son, he will have his own tears.
Hey thanks DDJ for chiming in. So far no tears in front of Son.
Im at a wierd spot. I've dropped the rope as in i have no hope or thoughts for reconciliation. Kind of hard to when before we parted she said "i dont love you, and will not now and in the future". I guess she killed it dead. In a way this separation feels all the more final.
The good, im no longer pining or wanting after her. Im sad yes, i am grieving the loss of my marriage, family and partner. Im glad i allowed myself to go through the sadness. I no longer feel the need to know what shes up to. The anger comes less and doesn't stay long. Again just sad it has ended up this way.
So the general theme of the week is sadness.
Went with my little boy wall climbing last night. We had a good time although he was quite intimidated at first. He got to watch daddy scale up a wall like spiderman. Managed to get home just intime for bed time. Put him to bed, said the i love yous and goodight and he was fast asleep not before long.
Good to hear Natus, wallow in the sadness if you must, but don't distract yourself, feel every last bit of it so that you never feel like that again.
I used to cry anywhere and my son would ask whats wrong, and i'd say, my knee is sore, and he'd say that i must put a plaster on it. Always so cute.
The pining does stop, it is attachment. Real love and what she had for you are two different things. Real love is action. And she stopped showing the right action a long time ago.
I too cried for the breakdown in the family unit, thats the right tears to have. It is hard to see what you worked so hard for break down.
Remember tho, that when you think that everything is falling apart, they're actually just falling into place - So what is falling into place?
Well someone might be interested in the house. This will give me some much needed leeway financially. I dont have to worry bout place to stay as my Parents house is mansion-like and empty rooms. Advantages of living in a sleepy small country. Everyone has huge houses.
Im day dreaming about it. With some cash in hand ill be able to let go some debts and have a much needed break. Maybe head to Nepal.
Am i day dreaming too much. Am i rushing things. We've only physically separated 2 weeks but the 5 months before that and her current actions, i dont see anyway back to reconciliation. I dont even think i want too anymore.
So i texted her logistical stuff and about how someone might be interested in the house. Asked her if she could get the figures from the valuation report she had done when she was moving banks last month.
Also asked if the car she using can be switched to her name from mine (I bought the car for her Aug last year) before i knew i was such a lousy husband apparently.
All purely logistical and financial.
Then she asks how are thing at work and have i adjusted to my new work shift. I couldnt help but feel like she doesnt get to ask those questions, i actually got a little emotional. A drop of tear in my eye that i had to play off in the office like i was yawning.
I replied back "if its okay, I dont want to talk about my life" i was going to add "with you". Not my best i know. I should have said something like, "lets keep this purely logistic...bla bla bla"
Before i would have caved for her attention. Now i see her and all i feel is pain, pain she has caused me and now my son will have to live with.
Ah, as i write this i have circled back to why this has hurt so much. Having a family was my ultimate dream but now that is shattered. Taken away from me. Taken away from my boy.
At this point i feel i like i have truly given up on her. Im probably not over her yet (duh!) but there is no way back for us. The damage has been done.
Hi Natus, if it helps at all I used to either not respond to personal questions like that - or I would just text good thanks and leave it at that :-)
I would have replied back with something like "it's going great!! Super busy!" and left it at that
Natus, as long as i live i will never forget your post to me about not being broken, i'm welling up just recalling it. it has helped to define my journey and i am thankful.
So, i ask you, as you did me - what makes you think that you can't have another family, a better family, one where your future wife cares about you and your son?
"what makes you think that you can't have another family, a better family, one where your future wife cares about you and your son?"
To me this sounds like the thinking of many WAS's - I need to drop what I have now in order to get a better thing. Occasionally I agree, but only if a M was truly dysfunctional or abusive. Mostly, I think that M's can be restored, even if the couple has got to a pretty bad place.
That's JMHO of course, but the philosophy of this site is all about saving your marriage if that is at all possible - not moving on to greener grass...
That's JMHO of course, but the philosophy of this site is all about saving your marriage if that is at all possible - not moving on to greener grass...
Agreed Sotto, the aim of this site is to save a M, but you first need to save yourself to save your M. How can Natus even consider being more him, if he's stuck in his broken dreams. The wife in the future may still be his current wife, that realises that she's done wrong. The glass does not have to be half-empty or half-full. Why can it not just be full?
At this stage im not thinking about new family, wife etc but i find myself moving on. WAS thinking maybe.
For my own sanity and because since BD she has not only said IDLY but told me she cant and never will again in the future. Hear that enough times and the door i was keeping ajar was starting to kill me.
Im closing the door. Its not locked but i know how stubborn my STBXW is. Like all things she will expect me to open the door for her and i cant anymore.
Thats not to say there might not be a future relationship cause god knows what will happen in the future. Right now though the M is fully dead and i will only focus on me and my boy. I will mostly likely see the D by the end of the year or atleast start filling by end of year ~cause i know she wont (again i have to do everything) but i dont want to be tied to this person who does not care about me anymore.
Im GALing like never before.
Mentioned before took up wall climbing, im hopping once i have some cash to go Himalayans.
Have a friend who goes free diving. Going to see if i can join that.
A friend of mine who moved to new zealand invited me over. If get to do the himalayan thing i will probably fit that in too.
Need to sort out finances abit so i can get my motorcycle. Going bank again on Monday.
I have my near daily gym and kickboxing i teach 3x a week aswell.
180s
- no longer just wear t-shirt and shorts, make an effort to look good all the time. Shave everday, Cologne etc.
- work on my interactions. Being good listener etc.
- being more social. going to more social events. i use to avoid them like the plague.
- more active on chores.
In a moment of WAS i asked someone out for coffee. She had a boyfriend so no go but she was flaterred and thought i was cute so atleast got PMA boost.
Happy for you Natus. I told my XWW that I will do nothing for her again, or with her. Those doors are firmly closed.
Find validation inside you, i say this with all due respect, you don't need PMA boost, avoid that for now, you need to be able to smile at your life everytime you think about it. Pretty girls got us into this.
There's a cute girl here at work too, i'm having to practice self-control cos i find myself flirting with her, but i know that i'm just going to end up where i was, or where the XWW is now, and I don't want to go back there. Making a commitment to myself and a vow to God that I will be single for a year after she moves out, no dating, to mould me to perfection.
What a journey!
Oh, and I also want to see (not climb) Mount Everest as part of the wonders of the world!
Theres a cool motorcycle trek which take you to the base of everest. Im soo interested in that.
Brought Son for eye check up with Her. I think i've reached the stage of letting go cause no feelings. I cant say that i dont love her but i definately dont need her anymore and im happy without her. Well at peace without her.
Just journaling.
Gal all night. Went to female colleague's open house. Smiley face girl was there, cute as ever. Spent the night socialising before heading off to movie theater with my brothers. Had the entire movie theater to ourselves, we watched Star Trek Beyond.
Really enjoyed the movie. Driving back at 2am melancholy sets in. All that GAL and freedom but i would rather have my family. I would rather be putting my son to bed and watching tv with my wife. Thats not my reality anymore however. This is my new reality.
Its becoming easier to focus on me and my boy. Does not stop the sadness though.
I loved being a husband, a father, having my family. Now im pseudo single and a father half a week.
I suppose it will get easier. Im only 3 weeks in from physical separation. Keep telling myself if i make it to my birthday in Nov im pretty sure that by then i will have moved forward / detached.
Going Dark / NC has been surprisingly easy.
We dont text or communicate much apart from exchanging photos of our son via whatsapp (when she has him and vice versa). I prefer it that way. I really dont feel the need to converse with her about anything at the moment and i know how to raise my son so i dont need to ask her for anything in that regards.
Engaged a financial health advisor trying to sort out my finances. Hoping to sell the house soon and start fresh.
Natus, sounds like you're making good progress with the detaching! I don't have a lot for you around the detaching part as I'm still trying to find my way, but wanted to swing by and support you bud.
Probably need to be careful on the dating stuff would be all I'd offer. DDJ seems to have a good grasp on it. I can see from my own situation how things would end up in the same place were I not fully "fixed" before I started seeing other people again. All about patience and comfort that you're good to go w/ yourself as a person and man.
Keep it up brother. Making great progress is sounds like!
Thank IT0402. Agreed on the dating and its not something im planning to do but i do plan to be more social. Its a 180 for me as im generally a loner type.
So far most of my new GAL activities is due to female colleague inviting me. She's a wall climber and mountain climb and stuff. Its something i've always been interested in, and the wilderness does call to me. I'm definately planning a trip up a mountain somewhere hopefully before the end of the year.
Female colleague has invited me for road trip this weekend with her girlfriends. She's aware of my sich and is trying to be nice and invite me for activities and introducing me to her friends. Im probably not going to go due to i have to cover class while my business is in Korea for competition.
On another vein, i found a note last weekend in my house from stbx's lover. I confronted her and she played it off as it was old and she forgot about it. Her flippant attitude to it got on my nerves a little. I am beginning to dislike her. Im thinking more and more about divorce now.
I know its early days but i cannot envision reconciliation anymore. She's told me she wont love me ever again and I wont take her back as she is nor do i think she is capable of change. I wonder what am i waiting for.
Sooo while i think less of her im still thinking way too much about my sich. I guess im just trying to find answers and a plan, a purpose.
Fallen off the wagon a little with eid here. Weeks long of visiting open houses and open offices. Great for socialising but it has got in my way of workouts and oh god the food everywhere.
Now that im no longer a husband i am in search of a identity. itching to do some soul searching but im stuck in routine of work and life.
I have a question, how do you girls and gals who hanged on for a year do it? Im about 6 months from BD and i cant envision saving the M or R or whatever.
Im thinking more and more about the D, moving on, going our separate ways. I know i dont have to rush it but also there is nothing to tie me to this person who broke and abondoned me. Is it all anger making me think this way? or an acceptance of the reality and that i can do nothing but focusing on moving forward.
edit: that shud have read boys and gals.
Hi nature... I think everyone who is over a year in and not yet divorced asks that very same question. I know I did. I came here and asked the same question 3 times. For me, at those times, there really was no difference between the current situation and getting divorced so I held out. But I did debate it, still do. It comes down to what you really want. I still wanted to be married to WW... What do you want?
Natus,
I wanted to swing by and thank you for dropping by my pad.
Interesting that you are seemingly in a similar place as I after such a short ride of the crazy train.
I plan to catch up on your story as it would be good to bounce some thoughts off of you as who would have thought I would be worried that the coaster ride would be so short for me. Not that it is over, but I see so many others that have a longer trek.
Anyhow, I will swing back shortly and thank you again for your musings. It is good to have support from those that truely understand the chaos we are experiencing.
Last night i felt low, depressed and didnt want to be alone, it was 9pm i was dreading being home alone. Its the earliest i have been home for weeks when im on my own. I usually get in midnight or later completely exhausted.
Out of the blue i received a text from a female acquaintance. She had heard about my sich and was pretty much sharing her misery, she sympathised with my sich i guess. Even though it was only text messages it was nice to be distracted.
Ended up dragging my brother to watch a late night movie with me. Got back at 2am, sleep came easily then.
Im starting to get eye bags from all the late nights, wonder if i should take something just so i can sleep earlier.
Natus - I been reading your sitch. It seems like you're doing a great job with your GAL. Everything I've read on this board is that with work every new day gives you the ability to detach easier.
I hear you about the sleeping. I'm taking some non-prescription stuff and it really helps. For me, it use to never be this way, but I can't sleep for long periods anymore. I get way too early.
Stay strong, Bro
Do you gym or exercise? Sorry.. not completely up to date with you. I wear myself out so I could sleep at 9 PM easy if I wanted to.
Hey SmithyC, i was a light sleeper to begin with. Now im not sure how many hours of real sleep i get as it seems im waking up almost every hour.
Hi Pinn, yea im used to being at the gym till 10pm cause i teach kickboxing. It just so happen on friday my last class finished at 8.45pm so i was home earlier than usual.
Im not anywhere near detach as i hoped to be. Still think about my sich way too much. Maybe deep down im hoping for reconciliation but everytime i spare it a thought i can not see it happening. Or maybe its still early days and i need to give it more time.