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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...215#Post2687215@rose, the Bible says that God hates divorce. It should only be used for hardened hearts and unrepentant spouses. The Bible also says that you can forgive, and why not. Forgiveness is a choice.
I'm not saying that I have not forgiven. I realise that I must only forgive myself. My M was dead years ago, she never cheated, as she does not know what she does. So I move on with my soul intact.
@sotto, yes we are all different. But I always believed that if my partner cheated on me, that I would divorce her. Anything less and I'm lying to myself. Same goes for my next partner and even myself if I ever go wayward again. I will file, and think about some WS's that file out of nowhere. This is not a fog. This is emotion... Or lack thereof.
This doesn't explain why you questioned darkness's belief in the sanctity of marriage because he doesn't believe in divorce.
Can you explain that part?
You seem really happy with your decision to divorce. It's the attempt to explain it as the religiously "right" thing to do that Has me baffled. I can't see that you have a theological leg to stand on, but maybe I'm just not understanding your point.
@Rose. We look at our MR's and figure out what we did wrong in it. We fix ourselves and become a lighthouse for our WAS. We fight for our M, we don't want to let go.
But, how many of us say - what is God trying to show us by taking the one person that we love "away" from us? Maybe he's telling us that we need to put Him first. The one problem with the DB theory is that it forgets God's role within a MR, and that He accepts, yet frowns upon D.
But instead, we fight, we hang on even though it feels unnatural - the anxiety, the insomnia - it goes away when you accept that you have no control over someone who no longer respects, cares or loves you. Sandi says drop them, and I say that D is a great way to do it. (sorry sandi - lol)
I have never been happier in my life, (I may be delusional but) i am filled with joy. I have never slept so well in my life. I taste food like i've never tasted before. I feel emotions I have never felt before. I can see tomorrow, even further and everything that has happened over the last 3 months is a blur. My aim when i joined this forum was to detach and be the person only a fool would leave - I believe that I have done this. I believe that God has given me an out in D to find Him and our own happiness, in Him.
Feel free to check my first few threads, this is a new DDJ. No doubt about it. I will D my WW everyday to feel like this.
I think i missed the right thing concept above... We are all raised to know the difference between right and wrong. We know that if we steal, we commit a sin. We kill, we must go to jail. We commit adultery, ask for forgiveness (from God) or D. As per the Bible, those are the only two options.
Now, I have absolutely no physical proof that my WW has cheated - NOTHING. But she has been unfaithful, this i know.
So do I hang on to her and not let her go OR do i do the "right" thing, regardless as to whether i want to hold on. The answer to that question is always YES. Always do what YOU believe is the right thing, regardless of how you feel. I think sadhub said that best.
This feels more right than anything I have ever done in my entire life. I think that more people should be accepting of the consequences of their actions and inactions, and move forward.
Now we have an opportunity to accept infidelity as a part of M, or do the right thing, regardless if we feel differently. Taking the right action trumps doing what you feel is right.
You ask if I accept infidelity.
The answer is no. Im not willing to live in a marriage where my partner is regularly unfaithful. But I do believe that once kids are involved, things change. My ex is going to be in my life forever in some capacity, because of our children. If my ex and I couldnt be in the same room together, then how can we continue to be effective parents for our children? Our children will have to live their lives choosing sides for everything.
So, no, I would set down my boundaries. I would not live in an open marriage. That doesnt mean that I would turn to divorce as the answer though. Divorce itself doesnt really mean anything. I was separated for 6 months before I was divorced. My life didnt change one bit the day the divorce was granted. The only thing that changed was that I reported that I was filing my taxes as a "Single".
You talk about taking the correct action regardless of your feelings. That is 100% correct. You set a goal, and you do what you can to meet that goal. If divorce helps you to achieve that goal, then so be it. I just have a hard time seeing how thats possible. You talk about a lack of respect, but I dont see how these actions work to gain that back.
By the way, this:
I realised that that anxiety that keeps one awake at night is because your body, your soul is telling you that something is wrong. The minute I gave up on my M and focused on healing myself, it slowly stopped and has now gone away entirely.
sounds like you are
doing what you feel is right
Im not trying to be argumentative. I accept that you will make your own choices. Im just hoping that when you look back 5 years from now, or when your son asks you in 10 years why you D'ed his mom, that you will be able to honestly look back and say you did everything that you could, but in the end, it was the right choice.
Thank you darknes. This D is going to change something though - I am telling God that I am untying what He bound together, I do it with His blessing, sort of a rights of passage. Besides that, it's just a relationship status, because that is what society has made it. The same thing our WWs felt about their M.
I do believe that the night that she first cheated (to my best knowledge) was the end of my M. I really feel in my soul that adultery ends a M. Right there in the act.
But thats the thing, my feelings in my heart are to hang on, stick together as a family unit, rebuild those picket fences. My soul tells me that I deserve a woman that won't do this to me or her son (possibly again). I have to fight my heart and follow my soul.
I also believe that the idea of trying to get your WW to become romantically attracted to you again, is fighting against the forces of nature. She wants to go, so let her go. Deal. Heal.
As for attempting to regain respect - imagine the respect I will command when i sign that D papers. She will never ever in her life doubt that i am a man of my word. I will take the hard decisions. I will not accept adultery. I can hold my head up high. That's a real man. That's what being "faithful" is all about.
There is only one thing that I will tell my son when he asks... I will say "Love with your heart and soul, do the right thing even though it hurts and if she still cheats - you run son, you run and save yourself"
oh, and one last last thing - my WW is now romantically attracted to me again. I have no doubt that if i offer her NC and transparency that she will take it.
I don't want her back. I don't need her back.
Good for you DDJ! We all have to make choices as far as the right way for us to move on, and I'm impressed with the level of peace you seem to have achieved with your decision. I don't know that I am there yet myself, and have plenty of soul searching and prayer ahead of me to get to that same point.
Thank you LFM, I have realised that what has happened to me is not as a result of anything that i did in the MR, per se. It was the person that came into the R in the first place that was broken.
I am learning to forgive the sinner that i was, and my sins. I never took the right action because it "felt" right in my heart, but still sat uneasy in my soul.
But my tale is somewhat different as I was wayward once, with my XGF, so I am able to comprehend my WWs actions better than most.
Wait, one more thing lfm, I see that you are piecing. Now I referenced this with Coconuts thread - but the problem is that I cannot see how you can become detached if you piece.
It's broken, yes. You're trying to piece, yes. But you continue to get lost (not lose yourself) in the "new" MR. Where do YOU draw the line between you and her, the line that she clearly has seen?
Hope that i make sense...
Unfortunately, not piecing anymore. Definitely back to square one. My wife ran off last night without warning, and came home really late, so I can only assume that she was meeting the OM. So any progress that had been made is now out the window. Back to DBing and focusing on myself fully.
chat to you on your thread...
So i had the audacity to ask if she'd be open to cut out all of her friends including her BFF, and going out (as OM2 is overseas for 2 months) to stop the D, and i got a "maybe, i must think about it". LOL
I want to say something and you may or may not take it in the right spirit.........I am hoping you will.
If your troubles have caused you to seek God and live a life pleasing to him, then that part is good. I hope you are studying the Bible and have a pastor or teacher to guide you along the way. When left to our own human wisdom, we can often read a very different meaning in scripture, to make it fit our viewpoint. You once said that you had been out of church for many years, or never was that deep into religion (I can't remember the exact words). Then you immediately began telling others what God hates, what he wants us to do, what you are telling God, and other things along this subject. I am concerned about some of your concepts, but this is not the place to get into a theological discussion. My main concern, for you DDJ, is that you be very careful of things you say and of self-righteousness. (You can't hear my voice, but I'm using very soft and carrying tones).
I have self-righteous betrayed spouses in past times, and I honestly don't think they saw it in themselves. IMHO, it somehow tied in with their W being the one who did wrong and they were the "right" spouse. Their SR had heavy tones of anger. These were H's who managed to get their WW back, but was left with a bitter taste for quite a while.
I am not suggesting that anyone shouldn't have the emotions they feel after betrayal. Speaking as a former WW and from the VP of my side of the street, I will tell anyone that self-righteousness will not serve the betrayed spouse in the MR. Never! It is one thing to be a lighthouse, but quite another to have a self-righteous attitude. The SR attitude does not shine a light of love. It mainly causes a person to look like an a$$. I don't think that is what you want to do.
But, how many of us say - what is God trying to show us by taking the one person that we love "away" from us? Maybe he's telling us that we need to put Him first. The one problem with the DB theory is that it forgets God's role within a MR, and that He accepts, yet frowns upon D.
This is only your opinion and how you are trying to project your spiritual philosophy.
So do I hang on to her and not let her go OR do i do the "right" thing, regardless as to whether i want to hold on. The answer to that question is always YES. Always do what YOU believe is the right thing, regardless of how you feel. I think sadhub said that best.
This feels more right than anything I have ever done in my entire life. I think that more people should be accepting of the consequences of their actions and inactions, and move forward.
If you are a Christian, then you learn the teachings of the Lord and follow His "rights". If not, you follow whatever your spiritual system teaches. Yes, you follow the principles, standards, moral integrity that was taught as you were growing up. Hopefully, they line up with your spiritual belief...........but whenever
man is involved, there is room for error. I have seen very bad teaching from some parents.
I get a strong sense you want your W to be punished. I am concerned you may be giving her a picture of one who has elevated himself, b/c she is a sinner and he is blameless and right.
When you left here, I thought you were on your way to divorce. Suddenly, you are back and talking about how God hates divorce. DDJ, I believe you want to be here giving everyone advice, b/c that it is how you came on board in the very first post. And that's okay if you will allow yourself to still be a learner. Whenever a teacher prepares to present a lesson before his class, do you know who learns the lesson first? Whenever a preacher prepares for his sermon, do you know who gets the message first? If we intend to save anyone from drowning, what must we do first?
But instead, we fight, we hang on even though it feels unnatural - the anxiety, the insomnia - it goes away when you accept that you have no control over someone who no longer respects, cares or loves you. Sandi says drop them, and I say that D is a great way to do it. (sorry sandi - lol)
I have never been happier in my life, (I may be delusional but) i am filled with joy. I have never slept so well in my life. I taste food like i've never tasted before. I feel emotions I have never felt before. I can see tomorrow, even further and everything that has happened over the last 3 months is a blur. My aim when i joined this forum was to detach and be the person only a fool would leave - I believe that I have done this. I believe that God has given me an out in D to find Him and our own happiness, in Him.
You kind of use some things I've said out of context, too.
I wish I could believe you are happy, but I don't. Neither do I think God is a respector of man, and makes an exception for one over the other.
I tell you what, before trying to make such a big decision about to divorce or not, why not just separate from her and see how well you do with the detachment? There's your real problem, DDJ.
Thank you Sandi. I appreciate your words as always.
Yes, there is a thin grey line between been righteous and self-righteous. Between being selfless and selfish.
Here's the thing, I have no bitterness towards my WW. She is doing what she is because she is following her heart. For her it feels right to blame me for everything. It feels right to express her "love" to and for someone else (perhaps sexually).
I also do not feel betrayed by her. As we know, I am 50% to blame for this, until the point of cheating. I never knew what love was, so could never show her what it meant. I believe that I do now, but have hardened my heart to her, become a WAS.
I might come across as an a-hole to her, I agree, but i am no longer concerned about her feelings, well not much.
As for my spirituality, well, I feel a sense of purpose that I never had before. i also said that the further I get from my WW, the closer I get to finding myself. I was with her today for almost 3 hours and I lost myself to her in that time. I got sucked into the familiarity of it all. But here's the thing, I feel alone when I'm with her, in terms of a connection to God. It's like she's a magnetic field blocks out any sense of understanding. Like she's a drug, blinding me.
Only this evening, when I was away from her for many hours later did I feel as though I was not alone. I really can't explain it. It just feels right without her in my life.
I asked a friend, how does she deal with being single. She said that you learn to be happy alone. I replied "I am happy alone". I believe that I am detached, I have no anxiety, no insomnia, no tension, I am at peace. i really am.
Lastly, there is no possible way to separate without the divorce. She refuses to move out and I refuse to relinquish the house to save a M in which my WW does not respect, care or love me. Remember that on my side, I never really loved her either. I do not see it as a big decision, I see it as the right one.
Am i doing it to make up for all the wrong decisions that I have made in the past - possibly. But thats the thing. When do i draw the line and say that enough is enough - Today I do the right thing according to my belief system, regardless of how i feel in my heart.
And I am not punishing my WW for her actions. All three of us are hurting. I heard a line that went "Mercy is what pu$$ies offer when they don't want to face the reality of their situation".
Hi DDJ, I think that was a really insightful post from Sandi, with much food for thought. I think if we can approach these decisions with a long term view and humility, that is the best way.
I would agree that perhaps a S is worth considering instead of jumping straight to D. It's also a good idea to dig a little deeper into the 'do I want to punish here' theme. After all, what your W is doing right now is only what you yourself have done in the past - we are none of us infallible after all.
Hope you have a good weekend
I agree with Sotto. There is a lot of meat in Sandi's post, and it doesn't sound like you are really hearing what she is saying or digging deep into yourself.
You give your wife a lot of power and control over you. If being in her presence wipes out your connection to God for hours after you've left her, you clearly haven't figured out how to detach and be your own person.
Detachment isn't just for unhealthy relationships. Learning to self-validate instead of getting your validation from your partner is a critical skill for having a healthy relationship. It's actually harder to learn on your own than in a relationship.
You seem to think that all your flaws and work are in the past, and that you can waltz into a healthy relationship with a new woman.
From what you've shared on the board, that seems unlikely.
So i've not been back for more than a month. I got DIVORCED today. Yes people, the big D, pity not the big DD's.
Anyhows, I feel good, not sad. I am joyful and at peace. My journey is something that people will never believe, because it's not supposed to make sense. If anyone wants to venture back to my first posts, good luck if you find it, but I am a different person.
The person typing this is reborn in so many different ways. Here's the question that I would like to get an answer to - "What would you do to save yourself - would you sacrifice your marriage?"
I will give more feedback on my journey over the last month, soon enough.
DDJ, I would say I'm sorry to hear about the final D, but instead... I'm happy for you. It's unfortunate that it can take such a horrible event in our lives to show us that we need to re-evalute ourselves to get the most of out of our lives, and the best future we can imagine for ourselves...
Your question is one that I've been thinking about lately, and it seems you've taken a path that many on here see as something they would rather die than accept as their new way of life. I'm proud of you, as proud as someone who's only known you for the past 3 months or so could be... Welcome back to the forums, and I hope you stick around to keep posting your updates - maybe I'll find you in the "Surviving the Big D" forums here in a few weeks if nothing else.
I'll respond back to your post to me separately, to not flood your thread with my story/process.
Heyo Long time no see. Been wondering what DDJ been up to.
@betterm, thank you. I could not fall asleep last nite and cried in the car on the way to work this morning. But not from sadness, from joy. It does not make sense, i know, but i have no hurt or pain, although i feel others' hurt and pain.
Also, why do we have to survive the big D - WHY CAN'T WE THRIVE!!!
So let me shed more light on what i've been up to...
I used the DB way to save myself, Sandi's rule's really do work. I knew that if my XWW wanted back in, that it was too late. Boundaries had been crossed and she didnt care about me anymore.
Talking about Sandi, she'd always say that she never understood why WW's always want to be up in our biz, text late at night, never want to leave us to live our own lives - well i figured it out.
RESPECT. They have none. None for the sanctity of M, none for their children, their homes, their health, their pets, their everything. They are so consumed by their own selfish desires (now someone else) that nothing matters, not relationships with best friends, with employers, with good hygiene. LOL
So what must we do - cling on to someone like that - shyt, life is too short. So i made the commitment to myself that I would divorce her, no matter how i felt, no matter how it hurt, no matter how many times i would cry about it. I WOULD D HER!
And, as i walked towards the D date literally 4 weeks from completion of filing, my entire Being started to change. I slept like a baby on codeine, i cried less and less (many days going by), I had a ferocious appetite, never can get full.
I made peace with God for getting married for the wrong reasons, I had idolized my WW. We all can recall an incident in the last year or so where we looked at them and said "it's just how she normally is". But deep down in our soul we knew things were wrong. But it was not wrong with them, it was wrong with us...
We were lost, in a fog of pure bliss. A mirage in desert. (gonna end here for now)
DDJ, glad to hear that your doing well, sorry to hear that in order for things to work out you had to D. I guess the best case scenario would be for a M to work out, for forgiveness to take place and for the MR to thrive going forward.
Not always possible due to so many factors, but I do believe that is the best case scenario. I also believe that thriving after D is certainly possible, life tends to also be like a rollercoaster, and with as far down as a chapter like this takes us, the upswing is gigantic, possibilities are endless if we take advantage of it.
My sitch took a dramatic turn a couple of weeks ago when I found out she was downloading A friendly apps, and then I confirmed just last Friday that the A continues.. it's been a crazy few days, but I'm leveling out, my support system jumped in and surrounded me, I've never received so much love from so many people.. I feel sorry for my WW, she's left family and 30yr friends and seems to only surround herself with new friends who fit "who she is" now...
Anyway, good to hear from you buddy, I'm glad you came through the otherside ok, I'm sure there is still some days of sadness for what is gone, and that's ok because no matter what, there were good years that can be missed..
Hey Coco, here's the thing, my journey is very strange, I feel no pain. No hurt. I really don't. It's like this whole episode never happened.
My soul has healed me, taken it all away. The last time i actually cried was Friday last week, but not for my M, but asking God forgiveness for disrespecting the sanctity of M and being forced to D.
I still have no proof that she cheated when shyt hit the fan in May. I really don't. Last nite, I could not sleep, I was so happy, like i was going on an overseas trip. This morning i was overjoyed.
There's a book called The Power of Now, what the author describes in the first few pages is what happened and is happening to me. I opened myself to the pain of this and then it disappeared, slowly, but it is now gone.
The aim, thx to darkness, sandi and dream, was to always detach. I believe D was the final piece of the puzzle. I am now at about 98% detachment. Can't really control my "member". Other thing is that in South Africa, you cannot legally separate and she was going nowhere, so I was forced to D to get her out of the house - which is still gonna take another 5 Months!! But it's part of the journey.
As for the best outcome, well that's debatable. I have found myself and become the best person i could ever be. I have the self-confidence of The Hulk! So DB does work, but you need a guardian angel to carry you through.
Would i do anything different and save my M... well that was never my choice, was it?
I just wanted to say... What a life changing book. Everyone should read this. Everyone!!!
It is good, thats one of the things about this forum. It talks about detachment and giving your toxic partner to your higher power. There is only one higher power.
Yet, the entire DB theory is somehow based on the premise that you have control over the things in your life. If you gym, learn to self-validate and 180 then your WW will start becoming romantically attracted to you again.
I believe that this whole thing has happened (to me at least) as the Higher Power is showing you something - your WW is fickle, and you're fickle for trying to hang on to someone that the Higher Power is taking away from you - why is He doing it - well, ask Him and you might just attain the POWER OF NOW! I have.
It is good, thats one of the things about this forum. It talks about detachment and giving your toxic partner to your higher power. There is only one higher power.
Yet, the entire DB theory is somehow based on the premise that you have control over the things in your life. If you gym, learn to self-validate and 180 then your WW will start becoming romantically attracted to you again.
I believe that this whole thing has happened (to me at least) as the Higher Power is showing you something - your WW is fickle, and you're fickle for trying to hang on to someone that the Higher Power is taking away from you - why is He doing it - well, ask Him and you might just attain the POWER OF NOW! I have.
Is this really your understanding of the DB theory? I couldn't disagree more with your summary.
DB says that the only thing or person you have control of is yourself. When your marriage is in trouble, you identify the "cheeseless tunnels"--those interaction patterns that you and your spouse repeat again and again that result in conflict or distance or whatever the trouble is. Then, you identify different responses (the 180s). You try those and see if that keeps you from ending up in the cheeseless tunnel. If it does, you keep that are your new normal response. If you still end up in the tunnel, you try a different response and see if that gets better results.
GAL activities are to help you learn to find fulfillment from other sources and to keep you from chasing after a spouse who wants distance.
There is no guarantee this will cause your spouse to be attracted to you again. Because you can't control your spouse.
I think it's important that we represent DB accurately.
Ok, Rose. I see what you're saying, my challenge of the DB theory is that each tunnel filled with cheese is a new behaviour that we reinforce. These new behaviours need to become second nature.
I was challenged before about self-validation. Personally the attachment reasons are that we LBS only looked for external validation of happiness, in our spouses. Part of being detached is finding internal happiness and in turn self-validation.
BUT, if we change our behaviour in order to get a reaction (attention) out of someone else, then we're simply just changing the way that we externally validate????
The GAL activities saved my life, it literally did. It helped me focus on myself and I am forever thankful for the DB theory. No one has to D, I just saw it as a goal in my quest to be more me, and I have achieved all my goals.
I am now 3 months sober
I am 3 and a half months without porn, no sex, not even taking matters into my own hands. I now have self-control.
I am 95% detached - i even told my XW that she must let me know when her new boyfriend is in town so that I can see inconveniences coming.
SO DB Works. I may not have saved my M, but I am the best person i can ever be!
...not even taking matters into my own hands.
DDJ,
I thought DB was all about taking matters into your own hands. You know, be a stand-up kind of guy.
Yes it is, that's one of the things that I stand up for - each morning! Painful indeed.
Ok, Rose. I see what you're saying, my challenge of the DB theory is that each tunnel filled with cheese is a new behaviour that we reinforce. These new behaviours need to become second nature.
I was challenged before about self-validation. Personally the attachment reasons are that we LBS only looked for external validation of happiness, in our spouses. Part of being detached is finding internal happiness and in turn self-validation.
BUT, if we change our behaviour in order to get a reaction (attention) out of someone else, then we're simply just changing the way that we externally validate????
The GAL activities saved my life, it literally did. It helped me focus on myself and I am forever thankful for the DB theory. No one has to D, I just saw it as a goal in my quest to be more me, and I have achieved all my goals.
I am now 3 months sober
I am 3 and a half months without porn, no sex, not even taking matters into my own hands. I now have self-control.
I am 95% detached - i even told my XW that she must let me know when her new boyfriend is in town so that I can see inconveniences coming.
SO DB Works. I may not have saved my M, but I am the best person i can ever be!
I don't think in terms of changing my behavior to get a reaction out of H. I see myself as changing my behavior to get a different reaction. For example, H sometimes interrupts wih joking comments. I used to get irritated and snap at him when he did this. Or, I'd stop talking and pout. Then he'd be irritated with me, and the conversation would end.
Now, if I'm frustrated wih the interruptions, I stop talking. But I don't snap or pout, and when he says "Sorry, what were you saying?" I continue the conversation with no hard feelings.
For me, 180s are about ending cheeseless tunnels, and detaching is about being responsible for my own mood and happiness. They are two separate strategies, and they solve different problems.
I do agree that both need to become second nature.
Rose888,
I agree with you, but I think 180s not only end cheeseless tunnels, they also disrupt the spouse's thought pattern (or behavior). For example, if the WS wants to get a divorce, then the LBS can help the WS find information about getting a divorce (the process, the cost etc). Normally, the LBS is attempting to avoid any discussion of divorce, so doing the 180 throws the WS off-balance (the WS loves to be pursued).
Of course, we may both be saying the same thing and just using different terminology.
It sounds like you're pleased with how things are going in your life. Congrats on 3 months sober!
How's your son doing? Does he know about the divorce?
How come your XW isn't moving out for 5 months? I had a tough time living with my ex when we weren't together anymore.
she was downloading A friendly apps
What are they? Which apps?
Agree with you on both counts, clarity is good.
But i still believe that the love that we ask from the WS is fickle, not a real love. Don't get me wrong, if they have the awakening to own up for their sins, to God, then I truly believe that that M will work again.
But real love does not worry about 180's and cheeseless tunnels. Real love is selflessness. The 180 behaviour change and the right tunnel is just another way to correctly practice selfish love - and getting what you want - and what you want is your WS back. That in essence is why we're in this spot in the first place :-)
Of course, we may both be saying the same thing and just using different terminology.
I think you're saying the same thing yes.
It sounds like you're pleased with how things are going in your life. Congrats on 3 months sober!
How's your son doing? Does he know about the divorce?
How come your XW isn't moving out for 5 months? I had a tough time living with my ex when we weren't together anymore.
I have never been in a better place, it's like a weight has been lifted from me, about 62kg's :-)
He does not really know, altho you do understand the tongue of a WW, which gets even worse once YOU D them.
Well the house needs to be transferred to my name, another 2 months, then she must get her own place, 3 months. It's actually better than it's been in the house, as there's no animosity, she's shown the world that she's in a new relationship so I can be me and she can be her - pretty good roommates actually. This is only possible as i have no bitterness towards her, no hurt or pain. Just thankful for the journey i've been on and the lesson learnt.
I feel sorry for the new guy tho, he is a good guy and does not see what's coming his way - AND HOW MANY LBSs have actually felt sorry for the OP? YES, that's the space i'm in :-)
I will always be thankful for your help tho.
Agree with you on both counts, clarity is good.
But I still believe that the love that we ask from the WS is fickle, not a real love. Don't get me wrong, if they have the awakening to own up for their sins, to God, then I truly believe that that M will work again.
But real love does not worry about 180's and cheeseless tunnels. Real love is selflessness. The 180 behaviour change and the right tunnel is just another way to correctly practice selfish love - and getting what you want - and what you want is your WS back. That in essence is why we're in this spot in the first place :-)
Lol
Every marriage is the union of two flawed people who have moments of selflessness and moments of selfishness. No one is selfless with their spouse all the time.
If 180s make our marriage happier and reduce moments of tension while increasing connection, that seems like a good thing for H, for our four kids, and for me.
I've come to learn that real love is selfless, there can be no space for selfishness. The minute we do things for ourselves, we lose ourselves to those wants. Their is joy in making other people happy without a need for reciprocation or "cheese".
If I look at my life, I have everything that I need. I wanted my XWW, I did. But did i need her, was it not selfish to hold onto someone that did not want me anymore? So i needed to be selfless. Letting her go was selfless, getting a D was selfish. The last selfish act that I plan on doing in a R.
If 180s make our marriage happier and reduce moments of tension while increasing connection, that seems like a good thing for H, for our four kids, and for me.
I agree with this if the spouse was still in the M. As in atleast trying alittle bit. But if they are completely wayward (in DDJ's case) or completely uninterested (my STBXW). Then its function may be less to do with saving the marriage but more for one ownself and to make interactions more pleasant.
For instance i had to 180 a few ways on how i communicated with STBXW. She thought i was authoritive, self rightous etc. I try to do the right things and im blunt (grew up in all boys family) so i can see how maybe i could come across that way. So now i 180, im still trying to do the right things but present them with empathy instead of directness. Too late for my M but will help in my future interactions with anyone.
Same with your pouting thing Rose, if you didnt save your M, through your 180s you would still realise it was an unattractive behavior for other interactions aswell.
Agreed Natus, but what i'm saying is - what are the motives behind what we do? If it is simply to get a different (re)action out of people, then it is an implicit control mechanism.
But we simply do not have control over anyone. Don't get me wrong, there are always better ways to communicate and many ways to lose an opportunity to show empathy. But why do we do this?
If it's to draw someone towards us, paint a pretty picture, remain a light-house - then we're doing it for the wrong reasons. If we're doing it cos we love and respect ourselves and we share that love with them, then it's the right reasons.
Whether they love and respect us is redundant.
You are a direct person, this is who you are, if someone does not love you for it, if you cannot be yourself around that person, then you will just lose yourself. In varying environments, you need to have emotional intelligence and alter that. But in your safety and comfort zone - Don't lose what makes you unique.
I'm over-analytical, i speak my mind and say things the way they are. I've stated it before and said that XWW never liked that about me. But that is me, who wants to be with someone that does not want me for me? I DON'T.
Agreed Natus, but what i'm saying is - what are the motives behind what we do? If it is simply to get a different (re)action out of people, then it is an implicit control mechanism.
But we simply do not have control over anyone. Don't get me wrong, there are always better ways to communicate and many ways to lose an opportunity to show empathy. But why do we do this?
If it's to draw someone towards us, paint a pretty picture, remain a light-house - then we're doing it for the wrong reasons. If we're doing it cos we love and respect ourselves and we share that love with them, then it's the right reasons.
Whether they love and respect us is redundant.
You are a direct person, this is who you are, if someone does not love you for it, if you cannot be yourself around that person, then you will just lose yourself. In varying environments, you need to have emotional intelligence and alter that. But in your safety and comfort zone - Don't lose what makes you unique.
I'm over-analytical, i speak my mind and say things the way they are. I've stated it before and said that XWW never liked that about me. But that is me, who wants to be with someone that does not want me for me? I DON'T.
I would say that the correct reason is because we love and respect them and want to interact with them in a way that helps them feel loved and respected. Can we control how they feel? No, but we can be the best spouse we can be in that moment, and then keep working to improve.
It sounds like you are saying you shouldn't have to speak kindly to your spouse. Is that what you are saying?
You shared in the past that on your honeymoon, you told your wife she was fat. Is that an example of "saying things the way they are"?
I know people have a tendency to behave worse at home than in public, but I've never considered that a good thing.
Hey Rose, the honeymoon quote was the selfishness, i never saw her as my wife, in fact, i could never endear myself to her, I think you or Ginger brought that up. But i never quite answered it.
I didn't like my wife, i still don't. But i got so attached to her that I could not let her go. Sex became the drug that kept me hooked to her. Once i stopped having sex with her, i could see what my real feelings were. That's where "change your actions and your feelings will change" comes in.
That's why i advocate that the LBS try something different, this hanging on to M causes anxiety. If you do the opposite, which is a 180, then you can normalise, find yourself. If she likes the new you, then you win. M SAVED.
As for being honest, if what I say came from a place of REAL love, then on the honeymoon, i would have said "no matter how big you get, I will love you and respect you with the love that I have for myself". But here's the thing, if she respected herself, she (and I) would understand that her body is a temple, and getting fat is not an accident, its not circumstance (unless medical), but we make a choice to get big, eat unhealthily and drink calories in liquor. I never had respect for her, for myself and visa-versa.
The M had to end.
And i'm not justifying ending the M, i am accepting the consequences of my actions.
Welcome back, DDJ. Ive been trying to bite my tongue as much as I can, but for some reason I find myself compelled to write.
It is sad to me to see how much you let your emotions guide you in this. You say it was something that you did without emotions, but there are several signs to me that suggest that is not true.
1) This went through INCREDIBLY quickly. I believe if this was a decision you came to from a detached, calm and collected place, then this would have been a long, planned process. XW cant ven leave for 5 months? So what was the purpose of such a fast D? From BD to divorced was what, 4 months? How will you be able to look at your son in the future and tell him you did everything you could?
2) Even your signature says "STILL DENIES CHEATING". In all caps. Youre divorced now....so who cares what she will or wont admit to?
3) You also mention you feel nothing. To me, that doesnt sound like detachment...that sounds like you are in shock. And understandably so. This whole thing proceeded like a whirlwind.
I get that you are feeling happy right now. I can understand that feeling of knowing what you want out of life and taking it. I am happy to hear about the positive changes you made in your lifestyle. That said, I do believe that you will look back at this and wish things went differently. I believe that your W was not "super wayward". I believe that this union could have been resurrected, but instead of standing tall for your commitment, you tucked your tail and took the easy way out.
I do wish you the best and I really do hope that Im wrong. Like most things, only time will tell.
You didn't like her, you didn't love her, you didn't respect her, and you married her due to attachment and sex?
For you to have these feelings, she must have known, unspoken, or not, it and felt absolutely awful about the situation and herself.
I would hope for any future wife you would make sure you love her, you like her for her. it will need to be true and eminate from you to have a healthy M.
@darknes, yes, i could see you behind your PC for the past few days just waiting to reply.
1 - yes, i finished the filing process in 1 week and 3 weeks later i was divorced. A total of two months from the moment that i made a final decision to finish filing.
2 - it does not matter, but is a part of the story, a critical part. You may not understand, but i believe that God told me to D my no good, not super-wayward wife. i followed all of the signs and it led me to this place. I had blind faith that what i was doing was a sacrifice to God, for the sacrilege of getting married without respect for its sanctity. And the second the judge said... "i now resolve your M", my heart filled with joy. I was not happy, i was joyous. I was at peace.
3 - i feel no bitterness towards her, i have no hurt for the loss of the M. I am able to self-validate on a level that i can never understand. I am able to feel other peoples emotions, their joy, their hurt, their pain. I never knew empathy, now it is all that i consist of.
I even told her yesterday that she must let me know when her new boyfriend is down from the other city so that I can be prepared for any inconveniences to my schedule.
Now, you may think i'm delusional, I sometimes think that I am... but i'm not. I AM SERIOUSLY HAPPY, AT PEACE AND FILLED WITH JOY.
I can only hope that more people will try something different - don't get me wrong, DB process is as counter-intuitive as you can get - but Divine Intervention is even more so.
You didn't like her, you didn't love her, you didn't respect her, and you married her due to attachment and sex?
For you to have these feelings, she must have known, unspoken, or not, it and felt absolutely awful about the situation and herself.
I would hope for any future wife you would make sure you love her, you like her for her. it will need to be true and eminate from you to have a healthy M.
That is correct Ginger, she must definitely have felt it, but why get engaged, married, have a baby, if you don't feel love back - COS SHE WAS SELFISH AND WANTED WHAT SHE WANTED, UNTIL SHE DIDN'T WANT IT ANYMORE. And so was I. Except, i never stepped out of the M.
As for a future W, I now know real love. Romantic attraction, which we try to gain from our WS's is fickle and they wwill turn again. Real love is action, as Cadet preaches, but it's where the real love comes from that matters. There is only one real love, from God, and we choose to have it for ourselves and share it with whomever we choose. I chose not to share it with someone that never cared for me.
But i've gotta go again, i'll be back in the future to update my sich.
Will check on your replies, if any...
I am forever thankful for the people that have touched me and whom i could help. remember that you're gonna die alone, so try and be happy before you do - no matter what you decide regarding your M.
I have so much to say, but I'll leave it alone.
best of luck to you.
I also have much more to say, but Im not really sure it will have much meaning. Know that I do hope the best for you and your son.
As for this: [quote=DDJ}I even told her yesterday that she must let me know when her new boyfriend is down from the other city so that I can be prepared for any inconveniences to my schedule.[/quote]
In my opinion, his coming shouldnt inconvenience you at all. Not sure why it even matters now as you are divorced. Just my opinion though.
Remember that you're gonna die alone
What does this mean?
Hi all, my once a month check in.
@darknes, well it does not matter, it never did. What does matter is that she inconveniences my life with her impromptu walk-outs. Which is unacceptable. So she must let me know so that I can plan my days better. She still tells me about OM1 and OM2 without me asking.
@dream, we live our lives thinking that we must hold onto everything, as though we can take it with us when we die. true detachment, which this forum advocates, is what we really all need to do. But not just with our WS's. With everyone and everything. It's like having a dog, you love that dog every day and every minute and then he dies, and you feel sad. But you don't have to feel sad, cos you enjoyed every minute. Appreciate the moments in your life and when something or someone leaves your life, look forward. Not back.
As for my sich, been divorced for 6 weeks now. My life has not gone better. XWW is as distant as I want to keep her. Still in the spare room. i paid her settlement out last week and got the mortgage approved in my name for the house. She's put in an offer for a place around the corner so S will not have to be inconvenienced too much by the D.
She gets into her regret around every corner, of how I threw her away, and I never fought for her or the M when she showed signs of giving up. I repeat every time that "I did throw her away, cos it was either me saving myself, or saving the M, and I know that i'm worth a whole lot more than an unhappy M and a disrespectful WW". Somehow, it does not sink in, perhaps the lack of care coming to the fore.
My future looks super awesome, detachment was the hardest thing I had ever done in my life. And I will do it a million times over just to get to where I am. I am 110% detached from her. But the real task is being detached from everyone and everything, that is where we find real joy in life. A life where people come and go, but you remain unmoved, unhinged, only God can move you then.
Stay strong DDJ, the better days are ahead for you...
Hi all, my once a month check in.
She gets into her regret around every corner, of how I threw her away, and I never fought for her or the M when she showed signs of giving up. I repeat every time that "I did throw her away, cos it was either me saving myself, or saving the M, and I know that i'm worth a whole lot more than an unhappy M and a disrespectful WW". Somehow, it does not sink in, perhaps the lack of care coming to the fore.
DDJ, don't overdue the detachment, if someone or something (like a dog) leaves your life you should feel some sadness, it's an emotion, but it shouldn't overwhelm you. I think only a psychopath feels no sadness, remorse, etc...
Can you expand more on the quoted piece above? It intrigues me that your WW would blame you for throwing away the M when she was the one having A's... Has she explained how she doesn't see her as throwing away the M? Does she say that she might have responded if you tried to save the M? If so, do you ever question why you didn't or think maybe you should have?
@vapo, better days are right here - I don't hope for a better future... I am no longer married to a selfish person that does not love me. How can things get better?
@coco - it's not overdoing it and it's not psychotic either. It's about detaching yourself from emotions, consciously and accepting that that emotion is wasted. Tears are wasted, unless it's tears of joy. Those are the only tears that I cry now.
With this mindset, everyone else but herself is to blame for her actions, like a 5 year old child. So I should have caught her and swept her off her feet as she was falling, but thats the thing, sandi says "let them fall, drop them"!
I gave up on the M after 1 month, once i realised that she was long gone, this was the tip of the iceberg i was seeing now.
I do not question my actions at all - I was doing the right thing for the right reasons, and I will do it again and again to achieve the same outcome. Thinking that I could change my fate, is fruitless, I know that I am not in control of my life anymore - this whole process taught me that.
So give up control and you will sleep like a baby.
Hey people, for the newbies on here, i'm going to give a rundown quickly of how my life was turned upside down by a selfish, rebellious, stubborn WW who had the world and wanted more... there, i'm done. And then i divorced her.
So back to now. Sometimes we cannot understand the things that happen in our lives. We attach pain to everything, hurt, bitterness. But why, why wallow in the pain. Surrender to it once and you will never suffer it again.
But our minds don't want us to go that deep, we play with it on the surface, causing a ripple everyday. Rather create a tsunami that clears it all out, after that the waters will stay calm.
My XWW is seeing OM3 since May and is now stringing OM1 along for the ride, insane that OM1 has now become plan B to OM3. LOL
As for me, I have never felt more alive and full of joy as ever before. People think i'm delusional because i'm so happy after the D.
Here's the thing... In a world full of sane people, I appear crazy, but in a world full of crazy people, I know that i am sane!
So here i am, 7 and a half months since the day that I heard those dreaded ten words. They say that it takes a month for each year of a relationship (10 years) before you are able to fix things in your M. I guess I jumped ship early, but the XWW is still on that ship.
To all the world it appears that we'll get back together. Who really gets divorced after the first hiccup, only 4 months in to it. Well, me. I'm not normal and I used to believe that I wasn't born with the sanity that society purveys. Now i know for certain that I was not.
I am seriously happier than I have ever been, anxiety almost killed me but instead i turned around and killed it. My heart is full of joy and there's space for a very cute girl in there too.
Imagine God was telling me to D my XWW, just to be with this girl - what a romantic notion. If only life was like the movies, well i have faith that it can be.
I truly congratulate you if you managed to crawl out of the pit so fast... I thought the saying was 3 months of healing for every year of relationship past.
Just don't rush it buddy. Take it easy and if you decide that reconciliation is not an option, wait for love to happen, I know how strong temptation of a loving embrace in these first few months after the gates of hell opened can be...
Stay strong buddy...
I am seriously happier than I have ever been, anxiety almost killed me but instead i turned around and killed it. My heart is full of joy and there's space for a very cute girl in there too.
DDJ,
I'm glad to hear that you're happy! Hats off to you. And, there's nothing wrong with marching to the beat of a different drummer.
Yeah guys, i'm taking it slow. No point in getting attached once more. I'm done with co-dependency.
So it's almost the end of the year. What a journey I have been on. Most people believe that 2016 was a pretty shameless year, filled with sadness, pain and fear. I just don't agree.
I believe in free will, we have a choice, a choice to do good, when every one else is doing bad. To forgive when every one else is remaining bitter.
This divorce was the best thing to happen to me, it awakened something inside me that I never knew I had. It freed me up to show love to so many people, people that I neglected over the last 11 years. Who needs a selfish spouse anyhows... always drunk, always bitter.
Now i soar, aiming for the stars, so the clouds are not good enough.
Yasss, DDJ. You need a selfish spouse as much as you need a hole n the head. Hugs.
SO here's an update... XW finally moved out at the end of Jan, literally down the road, as the D agreement stated that our only S had to stay in same school. She has never really got things going with OM1, as he stayed in the other town. She's probably seen him twice or thrice since last March when things went off the rails.
She had a long fling with OM3 for about 8 months and is breaking things off with him, another broken heart - check! She is really missing her best friend, she asks me constantly if we can get back together. But here's the thing with detachment, if you really focus on it, then you go so far that you detach from everything and everyone.
As for my love life, it's still at the bottom of the toilet. What a wasted heart.
As for my love life, it's still at the bottom of the toilet.
Oh crap! You need to climb out of the toilet.
Other than your love life, how are things going?
Naah, i'm letting it mellow down there. Water restrictions are quite bad here in Cape Town too.
My relationship with the XW is good, amicable, i'm actually drinking a glass of wine with her right now and we're reminiscing about the "good ol days when i first came onto this site".
I've come such a long way. It's not even normal. Still have the house and car, but without work as my contract was not renewed. But i'm taking things slow and seeing what comes up.
So I just read an article that said that love is a choice... For those that still remember me, you all know that i like to challenge the status quo, not to be nasty or troll, but I like to think out of the box, actually, i believe that there is no box.
Imagine if love is actually not a choice. Imagine it is an emotion? Emotions come and go, they're irrational and without thought, at most times. Can an emotion "linger" for years, decades even?
The ability for people to fall in and out of love, and to love and hate someone depending on the day and time shows that love is irrational. Some people believe that you do not choose who you love, as though it's chosen for you.
Marriage is about love; however, love is not about marriage.
Just dropping my thoughts, might help a newbie.
Your logic is flawed at the very core. Hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. Also you are confusing love and lust. When you first meet someone interesting, you get the butterflies, and if things go well, you both start falling in love. You are wanting to spend time with each other, you love talking to eachother and if all goes well, you start the confusing rituals of exchanging bodily fluids. And if you are also comfortable with eachother in this department, things progress. You might star a family together, you move in with eachother and you intertwine your lives. You might even marry. But gradually over the course of years, the feelings of lust (feeling of inlove) fade and if all goes well, they are replaced by the feelings of love, which is really just a form of psychological addiction to the good hormones the other person makes us produce. If we're lucky, we also make the other person happy and are so intertwined. But sometimes it happens that some one else might trigger stronger hormones release and the (or we) fall for someone else. And the cycle begins again... The trick is to recognize the early warning signs and steer clear of temptation. That's where the wise saying comes from that the if the grass is greener on the other side, that is because it is fertilized by bullshit.
I like your argument Vapo. I'm actually saying, that hate and love are the same thing. Both are emotions. That thin line between the two does not really exist.
This is how a relationship can flip in one moment. And agreed, someone else triggers the love emotion, which is why we're all on this forum. This love emotion is irrational and that's why it's called a bomb-drop. This love emotion is stronger than any bond, 10, 15 or 20 years of M can build.
The grass is always greener on the other side, not cos of bullshit, cos it's what the heart wants. LBSs think it's greener where it was, which is why we hold on.
This is how a relationship can flip in one moment. And agreed, someone else triggers the love emotion, which is why we're all on this forum. This love emotion is irrational and that's why it's called a bomb-drop. This love emotion is stronger than any bond, 10, 15 or 20 years of M can build.
Nope, it's not the "love" emotion, it's infatuation. The MLCer only thinks it's love, but it is really not. Love does not happen in an instant, it grows from the tiniest of seeds and takes years to flourish. Again, the MLCer is a mentally compromised individual, that has his/her judgement clouded. This is why they often fall prey to the lowlifes. One would think they would trade up, but as it is pretty much always the case, the affair down. This is why the LBS is so confused. The LBS mind is somewhat clearer than the MLCer's so we, that is why this is mindblowing to us and also kind of an insult, because we keep wondering why were we replaced by the dirtbag.
The dirtbag usually has the sweet talk and they know just what strings to pluck to get the desired reaction. And the MLCer is convinced that they found the love of their lives and they discard their old life completely in favor of the dirtbag. Very often the dirtbags are very disturbed individuals, exhibiting a lot of traits of sociopaths and psychopaths. 99% of the cases the MLCer realizes (it might take them a couple of years) that the OP is a dirtbag, but very often the LBS closes the doors to reconciliation.
Then i'm an anomaly. OM1 was a masters student, one more degree. Earned double what i have. Came from more money, could speak french and a foreign national. He was also a devout Christian and ultimately pushed away my XWW's advances, based on his religious beliefs. But by then I had shut the door, as you say.
Seriously tho i was not insulted, i was actually quite impressed that she could do better than me. LOL
I think it's less about accomplishment and more about emotional health and unresolved issues for the OP. OW in my case was attractive, intelligent and reasonably successful. But emotionally fragile..
I think it's different for everyone in every case. My ex's OW is a lawyer (although we make the same money, I am a nurse) she is very physically unattractive, has no shared interests, is a mess (he is a neat freak and she is a hoarder) but they have been together for 9 years, married 6. She tolerates his abuse where I just couldn't take it anymore and I began to stand up for myself.
Whatever they got apparently works for them. But it didn't work for us.
So I just read an article that said that love is a choice...Imagine if love is actually not a choice. Imagine it is an emotion?
I read this earlier today, and Ive been thinking on it for some time to try to get my thoughts a little bit straighter before responding. Im not sure Im there yet, but I will say that Im trying to imagine love as a fleeting emotion, as something that we, as humans, have no control over, and Ive come to the conclusion that I reject that concept.
Fundamentally, I cant come around to the idea that I have no control over who I love. I dont think falling in or out of love is an accident, I think it is a conscious decision that a person makes. I dont think there is such a thing as accidentally falling in or out of love; instead it grows or shrinks based on actions, words, decisions that the people in the relationship make.
You speak above about love and hate, but I dont think they are opposites as you seem to. I believe that you can love and hate someone at the same time. They are both strong ends of a spectrum. As Vapo wrote, I believe indifference or apathy are better choices as the opposite of love. How can you possible love someone and feel indifferent about them? How can you hate someone and feel indifferent about them?
I went through my entire marriage thinking that love was a given. That my love and my ex's love would be present for each other, just because. I dont believe that it just 'goes away' as you are suggesting, but more that it isnt self-sustaining; love needs to be nurtured and making the choice to love is what allows it to thrive.
I read this earlier today, and Ive been thinking on it for some time to try to get my thoughts a little bit straighter before responding. Im not sure Im there yet, but I will say that Im trying to imagine love as a fleeting emotion, as something that we, as humans, have no control over, and Ive come to the conclusion that I reject that concept.
Thank you for the input guys and girls. @Kaizen, I have come to learn that there is no such thing as coincidence in life. Everything is in its right place at the right time. The good and the so-called bad.
I'm sitting in my bed, on my laptop, divorced. Now, i could not be anywhere else but here, in this moment. So love, the love that my XWW had for me, was always going to end. I was always going to be single (now). To think that we have control over anything is the greatest fallacy that human beings can ever believe.
As for making a choice to love, if it's not self-sustaining, then it is an emotion. One can choose to be angry at a family member for decades, the same as one can choose to love someone who is no good for you. That's why we must love in the moment, love does not have to be nurtured, it must just be. And when it's gone, we must let it go...
No, no and no. It is not true that we do not have control over anything. We have almost perfect control over ourselves and our actions. We have choices in life that we can and should make. There is an old saying that if we choose not to choose than we have chosen.
And yes, love has to be nurtured, or let me clarify, there are 2 kinds of love, an unconditional one and a conditional one. An unconditional love is the love that we feel for our children and also the one that most of us feel for our parents. The conditional kind is a peculiar beast. Sometimes we love people that are no good for us. A dangerous kind of love is the one that is formed from need. When we are needy, we compromise ourselves just to have someone in our lives who "loves" us and to whome we can give our love to. Sometimes we feel (an intuition) that something is wrong but we choose not to listen to our intuition and dive in head-on, only to pay the price later. Sometimes when we subconsciously feel that something is wrong with the relationship we act in a manner that sabotages the relationship. Everything is clear in hindsight...
Hmmmm...... I think love is how we personally perceive it. I believe love is a feeling and an action. Love is an emotion. The love emotion is generated by how someone treats you and acts towards you. You FEEL it I believe. Then the partner wants to act on that love emotion by choosing to actively love that other person. By showing loving gestures that generate that emotion of love.
Someone actively does something to hurt you, you FEEL hurt. When someone behaves in a way to actively love you, you FEEL love.
Then love becomes somewhat unconditional at times when you are in a long term romantic partnership. Your partner may not be showing you love all the time, but you know that they love you when they apologize, or try to work on the situation that may have brought feelings of hurt.
Do we have control of our emotions? Popular opinion says "yes" I say no. We are humans, not robots and there is brain chemistry that produces emotions and we often have no control over those emotions and chemical reactions. We do chose how to react to those emotions though.
Love evolves.
I'm hungry and I'd love a burrito right now.
I'm hungry and I'd love a burrito right now.
Well if this isn't true love, then I don't know what it...
I feel that kind of love for bacon. Bacon has never let me down.
Bacon on a burrito, that's love above love!
Seriously tho, a bacon burrito would be heavenly.
But seriously, seriously, I think that love is beautiful. It is painful as hell, but can taste like a bacon burrito too. I guess everything has to come to an end, whether we like it or not... like this reply.
Hey all, especially the newbies. I've not been on here for many months. You will notice that you use this forum less and less, the further you move from BD day.
To round up quickly, BD out of the blue, fought for 2 months to save M, decided to save myself, D within 4 months of BD - Never been happier.
I have learnt so much about detachment, co-dependency and true love since that fateful BD day. The key is that we believe that we can control who we fall in love with and who falls in love with us. The inverse is also true, we believe that we can control who we fall out of love with and who falls out of love with us.
Now, many have tried and failed - you simply cannot make someone fall in love with you. The WWS is not wayward, they are simply not in-love. This is the challenge with M. We marry when in-love, we D when out-of-love. Simple, yet painful.
If someone truly loves you, they will show you, they will show you every second of every day. If they do not love you, they will not even show-up - LOL.
There is a lot of anxiety in this process of realisation, and this forum is without the best to discuss it on. BUT, do it for yourself, make yourselves whole again, love again.