Will link my previous post, out on my mobile phone at the moment.
Just finished my final IC session and was startled by some of the things that came out of it.
She all but told me that I need to take back control and go and get all my things out of the house, she also said that I need to initiate a conversation around D as she believes my W is burying her head in the sand and not facing up to her actions.
She thinks that timing is crucial and believes that I need to bring the subject up before she goes to Boston. My IC said that I shouldn't feel like I need to go through with the D but the fact I'm thinking about it would send a message to my W that I'm taking control back and she's not having it all her way.
Here's a link to your previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2685194&page=1I find what your IC said to be interesting, I'm no professional, but I don't understand how bringing up D puts you in control. What if you bring it up and she says Yes, that sounds like a wonderful idea, let's do it... Then who's in control? I'm just not sure.
Did your IC talk at all about taking back control of your happiness, your emotions, your life? I'm not saying your IC is right or wrong, I just don't know how it would put you in control. Boundaries would give you control of what you would and wouldn't accept, and if D was a consequence, then that would be some sort of control, but I think just discussing D wouldn't give any control.
In my IC's words I've been a "doormat" in our R for a long time and have always been afraid to challenge my W and let my opinions be heard. She is of the opinion that my W is fully expecting me to remain silent and let her do as she pleases safe in the knowledge that she has a 'Plan B' waiting in the wings as I have a history of being passive.
In my IC's opinion me initiating conversation regarding D sends a clear signal to my W that I'm willing to speak up for myself and that I'm not willing to be anyone's 'Plan B' which is very much like the man I used to be.
For the record I will also agree that I'm unsure if it is the right or wrong thing to do but it gave me food for thought.
Kyle, set up boundaries, that will help keep your wife from walking all over you. Talking about D isn't going to help, but telling your W that if she sees other people your going to D (if that is what you would do, don't say that just to try and stop her) would put you in control of that sitch. But if you set a boundary and don't follow through, Doormat. I know, I set a boundary and then backed off, I'm still afraid that is going to backfire on me.
Telling your W that if she goes out of the country when she's supposed to be watching your daughter your going to file for sole custody (I don't even know if that's an option, just an idea) would put you in control. FYI, these are extreme and not recommended, but I worry that you wouldn't get the idea if I put small boundaries. Re-read the boundary link cadet gave you on first page of sitch, they are about getting control of your life.
Oh, and rather than telling your W your not going to wait around (which won't work), show her... GAL like a mthrfckr, have fun, do you... Then you won't hang on her every word, you won't react to what she says or does. If you don't want to be plan B, then make it so, prepare yourself to move on, then do so when your ready.
So just found out that my W was speaking to a friend last night about divorcing me. She said its something she is thinking about but doesn't want to do it yet as I seem like I'm in a better place and she doesn't want to set me back.
All but confirms it then.
Why are you still listening to what she is saying?
What reason has she got to lie to her best friend? She wants to file for divorce, quite clear that.
What reason has she got to lie to her best friend? She wants to file for divorce, quite clear that.
You're missing the point. You're right - she wants to file for divorce right now. But that doesn't MATTER.
She is running on pure emotion right now. She's working off of her feelings. But feelings can change. Are you always happy? Tired? Hungry? Cold? So just because she feels something today doesn't mean she will feel the same tomorrow or the next day or the next week or the next month, etc.
The point is that in order to potentially reconcile with her, you need to look inwards and work on you. Let go of your fear and your need for control. She's going to do whatever she's going to do. The only chance she turns around is if you are the Kyle that she'd be a fool to leave.
It's funny because I feel more at peace with my whole sich now I know she's thinking of divorce then I ever have.
I've spent so long analysing every word she's said and looking for any signs of hope. I feel that knowing she's thinking of divorce has given me the closure I need.
My brains not wired right!!!
What reason has she got to lie to her best friend? She wants to file for divorce, quite clear that.
You're missing the point. You're right - she wants to file for divorce right now. But that doesn't MATTER.
She is running on pure emotion right now. She's working off of her feelings. But feelings can change. Are you always happy? Tired? Hungry? Cold? So just because she feels something today doesn't mean she will feel the same tomorrow or the next day or the next week or the next month, etc.
The point is that in order to potentially reconcile with her, you need to look inwards and work on you. Let go of your fear and your need for control. She's going to do whatever she's going to do. The only chance she turns around is if you are the Kyle that she'd be a fool to leave.
Kyle it's funny that it seems your either not reading what others are writing or you don't believe it. You say your more at peace... Do you think that's a feeling? Do you think feelings change? Go back and read what darkness wrote (what I quoted)...
The only thing you can control is what you do, look inwards and start fixing what you think should be improved. You said earlier your not a spiritual person, may I suggest that you work on that. Go to church, or meditation, or something that will help you look into yourself, I think you would find it very helpful.
When I say I feel at peace I mean that I can see now that my M is over. I didn't want to believe it before so was obsessing about every little detail, what she said, how she acted when I picked the kids up, I was replaying every minutes of the weeks/months leading up to BD.
I was blindly clinging on to anything which gave me false hope, I was trying to change the context of every word she said to fit my desire.
Where did it get me? I would probably say I was weeks away from a complete mental breakdown!
On I side not I can see the humor in her filing for D, here in the UK she could only file under adultery or unreasonable behavior. What's she going to say?
"He let me go out with my friends all the time"
"He did most of the housework"
"He was great with the kids"
"He let me irresponsibly spend money"
Like I said previously I think I need to take some time away and try and center myself.
This is one of the best thoughts you have posted in your threads. And you have posted it more than once.
So now what are you doing to follow your own advice here?
You're questioning what I'm looking for and to be frank I'm not sure myself anymore.
If you are not sure, then sit still and figure it out. You are being provided with ideas, advice and feedback from folks at every point in situations that mirror yours.
Pay attention.
Try and stop debating it all, and focus some energy on some actions.
Continuing to ruminate and debate really is not doing you any good.
All I know for sure is I'm tired, I'm tired of feeling this pain, I'm tired of thinking about the memories, I'm tired of waking up at 5am, I'm tired of looking for signs in everything, I'm tired of trying to figure out what caused this, I'm tired of having to hear and see how happy my W is without me, I'm tired of worrying what she's doing everytime she has weekends without the kids.
Then it is time to start doing something about it. You are never going to make any progress in these areas if you continue to just think and write about it.
You need to get up and do something about it.
No one ever lost 50 pounds and got healthy by sitting around and being tired of being sick and tired.
They have to get up and do some work.
And that work will be uncomfortable and does not change things over night.
It takes time and WORK to come through what you are experiencing.
I just want to be free from it all but I can't. My brain is my worst enemy at the moment, I can't control it!
You can't control it, because you are not putting forth the effort to do so.
Your brain is like any other muscle in your body. You have to exercise it.
You should have homework from your IC to work on this.
You may need to see an MD for medical advice.
Meditation, study of emotional health and effort are what are needed.
And a PMA.
This you may even have to fake it until you make it.
But without a PMA you will struggle.
I want to know why my W isn't filing for divorce? Granted financially she can't afford it but if she is so certain it's over then ask me to file.
How will knowing change anything you do?
Kyle....brother....my friend....
It is time to start doing something that works.
So much proven and valuable information is being shared with you. And it is from folks that care and want to see you succeed.
Think about it. Do you really think folks here are trying to just steer you in a random direction?
Do you want support and ideas?
C'mon now. I have thrown out the challenge to you several times.
Others have as well.
Your thread is starting to look something like a broken record.
It keeps repeating itself.
Stand up, dust yourself off, understand that your d's need you to be a strong father. You need to feel strong and good again.
You can do this.
But only after you make a decision and commit to doing the work that is needed.
I am not saying that it will be easy. Only that it will be worth it.
What say you?
Will you do it?
Hi Kyle, firstly I would encourage you not to believe all that they say - this is one of the DB rules for a reason and WAS's may say many things that don't ultimately come to pass. However, if that she has said this helps you detach further - great - though I wouldn't let this alter your course.
I'm also in the UK and my XH filed on unreasonable behaviour grounds. From what my L said, the bar is pretty low. To avoid further hurt for me and help him out, I ended up giving him some suggested grounds and he used those. With the benefit of experience, now I probably would have taken a harder line and said to him - well, I guess if you feel I've behaved unreasonably you'll file on that basis - then left him to it.
But there we are, it's not a huge regret and we live and learn. Do take some time to absorb this latest development, which is by no means the end.
Take care
I certainly won't be helping her with reason to put down on a divorce, if that's what she wants then she will have to come up with something tangible by herself.
I normally don't get defensive but I will not allow her to write a list of lies if that's the course of action she chooses.
Hi Kyler. You got loads of replies and advice on what to do and all you took out of it was Sottos bit about not helping her with reasons for D
Nothing has changed , if you had asked us on this board if your W had discussed D with her friends we would all have answered yes. Of course she has , she believes the M is over and has done since BD.
Why do you trust this friend with the info so much and before you answer, did you trust W more or less than the. Friend before BD ? Do you get my point ?
You have a lot of people on your side on this board , more than most and that's because we all feel your pain and see you chasing every thought because you can't accept what is happening Until you do you will continue to wreck you head. Again , it's completely understandable BUT pick a road a stick with it
Don't believe anything W or her friends say right now , good or bad regarding your sitch , focus on you , that's all that you can control Accept that right now W is 100% done and any R you two have in the future will be from scratch and new
Take care. Rd
Hi Kyler. You got loads of replies and advice on what to do and all you took out of it was Sottos bit about not helping her with reasons for D
Nothing has changed , if you had asked us on this board if your W had discussed D with her friends we would all have answered yes. Of course she has , she believes the M is over and has done since BD.
Why do you trust this friend with the info so much and before you answer, did you trust W more or less than the. Friend before BD ? Do you get my point ?
You have a lot of people on your side on this board , more than most and that's because we all feel your pain and see you chasing every thought because you can't accept what is happening Until you do you will continue to wreck you head. Again , it's completely understandable BUT pick a road a stick with it
Don't believe anything W or her friends say right now , good or bad regarding your sitch , focus on you , that's all that you can control Accept that right now W is 100% done and any R you two have in the future will be from scratch and new
Take care. Rd
Got woke up this morning by my D5 with a fathers day card, presents and a big kiss, I couldn't think of a better way to start the day. My parents have been incredible through all of this and it's the little things like being thoughtful enough to go and get a card for me which makes all the difference.
Got a family BBQ today before I take my D5 home which I'm looking forward too.
My goal for the day is to stay off facebook as I know it's going to be full of fathers day messages from happy families and I know that will not help me.
Great time spent with my family today having a BBQ and unwinding, shame my D5 had to go home.
Can I get some experienced opinions on something? I've been very good over the past 3 weeks and have completely backed away from my W, I've only spoken to her when she's contacted me regarding the kids and when I've been in her company I have stopped trying to be overly nice and make idle chit chat.
On to my question (and don't judge me for 3rd part information).....Last night my W was out with mutual friends and they've told me she was really off, she was being very quiet and went home early. Before she went home she confided in a friend saying "I know he's probably talking to other women and getting comfort from them etc" (for the record I have no history of ever doing anything like this).
Should I not look too much into this or is it a sign that detaching from her is working.
Great time spent with my family today having a BBQ and unwinding, shame my D5 had to go home.
Can I get some experienced opinions on something? I've been very good over the past 3 weeks and have completely backed away from my W, I've only spoken to her when she's contacted me regarding the kids and when I've been in her company I have stopped trying to be overly nice and make idle chit chat.
On to my question (and don't judge me for 3rd part information).....Last night my W was out with mutual friends and they've told me she was really off, she was being very quiet and went home early. Before she went home she confided in a friend saying "I know he's probably talking to other women and getting comfort from them etc" (for the record I have no history of ever doing anything like this).
Should I not look too much into this or is it a sign that detaching from her is working.
Great time spent with my family today having a BBQ and unwinding, shame my D5 had to go home.
Can I get some experienced opinions on something? I've been very good over the past 3 weeks and have completely backed away from my W, I've only spoken to her when she's contacted me regarding the kids and when I've been in her company I have stopped trying to be overly nice and make idle chit chat.
On to my question (and don't judge me for 3rd part information).....Last night my W was out with mutual friends and they've told me she was really off, she was being very quiet and went home early. Before she went home she confided in a friend saying "I know he's probably talking to other women and getting comfort from them etc" (for the record I have no history of ever doing anything like this).
Should I not look too much into this or is it a sign that detaching from her is working.
Kyle, don't look too much into it, it will distract you from focusing you. Your W is going through feelings and they change, she is having tough times just like you are. If she thinks your seeing other woman who are supporting you, then she's probably noticing that your not clinging and sad all the time, the good thing about this is that your not. You are doing you, you are making your happiness your own, and it doesn't matter what your W thinks or does.
I'm glad you had a good day with your D, Happy Father's Day Kyle. Your D is who will benefit from her dad being a better KyleR, nothing else matters.
Oh, and don't think you need to tell your W your not seeing other woman, it will not help. Woman want what they can't have, so don't go open your mouth. If she wants you back, she won't stop trying because she thought you were seeing others, so don't tell her.
Remember when I said it didn't matter that your W said she wanted D?
Well, it doesn't matter that she said this either.
Keep walking down your path.
Cheers guys, just wondering how the good folks on here viewed it.
I'm not going to try and get too hung up on it, just found it curious as its a complete 180 from saying "not being big headed but I know she still loves me" last week.
KyleR, the good folks on here view it as.......Believe nothing she says and 50% what she does .
Do you really want the advice being provided to you based on DB and our experiences or will you continue bouncing all over the place with every little thing she says,does or what you feel?
Just curious as you don't seem to be paying attention to what you are being provided.
Again, my friend what path will you choose?
The path of cheeseless tunnels?
Or the path of becoming the person only a fool would leave?
Hi Kyler , anything I share from my story is to maybe help you understand time frames and to ignore all they say , my WW told me 3 weeks ago that I have been seeing someone for 5 months and they are much younger than me and very. Dry attractive , I answered that if I was ( didn't deny or confirm ) I'm sure she would be delighted for me. She started crying. This is after she's gone 18+ months
My point , it doesn't matter what they say , it's what they do and even then be wary
Your looking for hope and we all understand but while your doing that you are not detaching This morning I got a text from WW , ' Happy Father's Day to a great dad x '. You know what I took from that Kyler ? Nothing. I texted back , ' thank you ' and went on with my day
It COULD have meant loads of it could of meant nothing , who knows and why waste brain power on it
Please go back and re read all the advice
Take care. Rd
For the record I'm not getting hung up on it I was merely asking for opinions as I'm fairly new to this.
If anything it has validated to me that I need to continue to keep my distance and let my life be a mystery to her.
I'm thinking of speaking to my W and telling her that she/we need to sit down and tell the kids that I'm not going to be coming home.
Everytime I have my D5 she asks me "when are you coming home?" My W has told her that I'm helping nanny with something, it makes me feel terrible lying to her everytime she asks and I think she needs to know the truth.
If anything it has validated to me that I need to continue to keep my distance and let my life be a mystery to her.
Exactly right!
Sandi, what do you think of my above post RE telling the kids that my move out is permanent?
I'm thinking of speaking to my W and telling her that she/we need to sit down and tell the kids that I'm not going to be coming home.
Everytime I have my D5 she asks me "when are you coming home?" My W has told her that I'm helping nanny with something, it makes me feel terrible lying to her everytime she asks and I think she needs to know the truth.
Can anyone advise me on this?
I think telling your kids is a personal decision, but I Don't think it would be bad to tell them. At the very least you can tell your W what you don't want her to tell them. Letting them know that mom and dad are having difficulties, and that's why dad isn't living at home probably wouldn't be bad. I definitely don't think your W lying to them is the best way to go. Kids are perceptive, they probably know more about what's going on than u think.
Hi Kyle,
That is a tough one. Honesty is important with children as long as it is age appropriate information. The hard part is that you don't have all the answers and nothing is absolute. Look at it this way...
How will telling D5 that you are not coming home help in your reconciliation efforts? Keep your eye on your goals by focusing all of your time, effort and energy into being the best Kyle and Dad that only a fool would leave.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Yeah I have no doubt that my eldest knows what's going on but I'm certain that D5 thinks that I'm just "helping nanny" and will be coming home soon. She asks me every time I have her and I think that it's not helping me or her.
Kyle,
Michele wrote an article regarding telling kids about divorce. Please email me and I can send you a link.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Will send you an email shortly. Will it apply when divorce hasn't been mentioned as of yet?
Hi Kyle,
Thank you for your email request. I have sent you the link.
It is best not to talk about divorce to the kids unless you’re certain it’s going to happen.
A DB Coach can help you with suggestions on what to say to your kids when they ask questions that you are unsure of how to respond. I know you want to be honest, but it's hard when you don't know the answers yourself.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I know that this probably isn't advised but I may tell my W that my daughter keeps asking and we need to tell her something a bit more definitive.
It's difficult because myself and my W haven't had any conversation regarding D and I'm not sure I want to stir it up yet.
I phoned around a few solicitors today to get an idea of how much D would cost and time frames etc.
I'm not going to file (yet) but thought I'd get the information together for if that day arrives.
Hate to say this on here because of the support I've received but I have official given up all hope.
I'm going to the house on Tuesday to collect all my things and tell my W that when she returns from her trip to Boston I want to talk about divorce and how we're going to proceed with telling the kids etc.
Hi Kyler. I'm speaking for myself here. Why are you waiting until Tuesday ? If you are sure you want a D then that's your choice. Your a grown man and you get to decide what you want.
How did you get on with the lawyers ? What are you facing re custody and maintenance payments ?
When I and WW told the kids we did it together for the younger two and I just let WW explain as it was her choice the older two. 16 and 19 she told them and I spoke to them after
The kids will cope , not be happy but they will learn to cope You are making a choice and you have obviously considered the kids. The LBS has to be strong throughout this and even though we are struggling with our own emoitions the kids are all important
If you explain your game plan re the talk with the kids on here then the vets will have sound advice for you.
Re talking about the D with W , IMHO it doesn't matter what she thinks this is about you Do you need to speak to her about it ? Maybe getting your paperwork in order would be best and then see how you present it to her
I'm sure this wasn't an easy thing to decide and atleast now you can let go of all that constant analysing of what she saying or doing
My thoughts are with you and I admire your strength , I'm almost two years in to this and I only started the D ( and I'm going very slowly to see if it's what I really want ) a few weeks ago because I'm not sure if it's 100 % the right thing to do. Maybe I need more strength like yourself
Take care. Rd
I'm going to go to the house on Tuesday because it's the only day I can guarantee that I can collect all my belongings without my daughters being present and my W will be on her own so it's a good time to talk.
I'm going to speak to my W first re D as I want it to be as amicable as possible so it doesn't cloud and future relationship between us and our daughters. I also think that if I state my intention to start divorce proceedings and give her time to think on it and she still wants to go through with it then it gives me some closure that I need.
If I'm honest I'm not 100% convinced it's what I want but as you say it will help me let go of the constant analysing of everything she says and does.
Over the past 9 weeks I've been in some very dark places and considered doing things to myself that do not bare thinking about. I feel like I need to take some control of my life back and for me this is the only way I can see me achieving that.
I am concerned that you may not be ready to make this decision, but it is your decision to make and we will support you in that decision as well.
Why are you saying your going to talk to your W, so you can let her know you want to talk about divorce after she returns? If you want a D, file D, you don't need her approval; unless your hoping she will tell you it isn't what she wants and talks you out of it, in which case, your probably not ready to file.
Either way, please keep posting.
Another reason I'm going to speak to her first is I'm hoping that we can sort childcare and maintenance without involving lawyers.
Hi Cnut
I want to sit down and talk to her before I file because I want to see if we can sort finances and childcare out without the need for lawyers. I also want to tell her how I'm going to file (unreasonable behavior). I have no ill feelings towards her and would like to be able to agree on the reason I'm going to use, I don't want her to feel like she's being attacked.
Do you want a D? If the answer is no, then don't. It's as simple as that. It will have next to no effect right now, cost you a fortune and eat up your life for months.
Just have a second thought, first!
No I don't want a divorce but I also didn't want my M to end in the first place, none of this whole process has been about what I want.
I know my mind and I honestly don't think I can carry on with living my life without seeking closure first. If my W is sure it's over and she is happy to D then that, for me, is all the closure I need.
Kyle, if you dont want a D, then don't file. Why are you doing things you don't want to? Why do you put so much into what ypur W is thinking or feeling? She doesnt know what she wants. She's in a fog.
You're spinning. You have only been posting for a month. Your sitch is new. You're in a fight or flight mode.
You're not detached. If you're detached, you would file D because you want to. And not because you think it is what your W wants.
Why do you think that filing D will give you closure? It won't. You give you closure, Kyle.
If your W is happy to D, then let her! Why are you mindreading her and then doing the dirty work for her? If your crystal ball is accurate, then she should be filing soon, shouldn't she?
I would advice you to change another ic. I don't understand why your IC would advise you to file for D.
No I don't want a divorce but I also didn't want my M to end in the first place, none of this whole process has been about what I want.
I know my mind and I honestly don't think I can carry on with living my life without seeking closure first. If my W is sure it's over and she is happy to D then that, for me, is all the closure I need.
Kyle -
I get it. You want to feel in control. You can feel your life spinning away from you and you want to grab it by the balls and take back control.
Here's the thing. Filing for divorce is not the way to do that. You say yourself that it isnt what you want. So then why would you do it? Being divorced in and of itself wont change your attitude, your mindset, your emotions, your sense of a lack of control. As JksD says, only YOU can do that.
And the way to push forward with that process is to detach and GAL.
You are listening to every word your WAW is saying and believing it and REACTING to it. You have to stop and start listening to what you want. Take back your life through LIVING your life.
OK KyleR, there is a reason I don't post on newbies sitches - I'm still here! Yep, 14 months in and I'm still here. I remember being in exactly the same place as you and thinking the same things and I still haven't pulled the D cord yet.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I think about every now and again, but in the back of my mind, I don't want to be D'd, so I won't do it until the last piece of me decides that the future would look better without my W in it.
Now and again, I get depressed, get pissed and fire off a tirade on here. Normally, RD, Sotto and NDY come along and give me some 'coffee' to sober up and I'm back in the room! So, why am I still here? Well, I got married for a reason - love and that hasn't gone away yet. If it does, then I could see a day I'll file for a D, but that's not yet.
Go and read sandi2's posts on WAW/WW and see, really see, how her reactions changed from minute to minute. Search for her using the advanced box. Right now, she's giving advice to a WAW/WW who's come for help. It's a goldmine of information that us LBS's (mainly men) just don't see.
I've given two pieces of advice to newbies today - very unlike me, as I don't want to give that 'old man not letting go' look about my sitch. However, when I see guys saying they are going to D just for closure, I remember some of my posts from last summer and I realise that it'll be a mistake, likely expensive, and should only be used as a last resort.
No I don't want a divorce but I also didn't want my M to end in the first place, none of this whole process has been about what I want.
I know my mind and I honestly don't think I can carry on with living my life without seeking closure first. If my W is sure it's over and she is happy to D then that, for me, is all the closure I need.
KyleR,
I won't waste your time saying what has already been said.
Plenty of LBS telling you real life advice.
If you need more, please check out some other threads.
I have read several LBS that regret running straight to filing the D even when they did not want it.
Now they carry the guilt of that on top pf the rest of the pain.
MWD just sent out an email titled Divorce is forever.
It describes the pain that goes on with family members forever.
Do you want the weight of that on your shoulders?
Divorce is not a way to get closure.
It is not an escape from the pain.
It is not a decision that should be made from an emotional standpoint.
Google "things you should know/consider before divorce.
All that I have read, state that an important rule is to never file for divorce as an emotional decision.
You are emotionally injured.
Take this example of a physical injury and tell us what you would do.
If you were to break your arm, and then get an infection in it what would you do?
Would you see a doctor?
Seek medical advice?
Have the bone set back in place?
Try meds that can heal the infection?
Do the physical therapy needed to strengthen the arm?
Rest and get yourself back together?
Listen to others that have gone through the same thing as you are?
Would you seek a second opinion if the doc says they can not save the arm and you should amputate it?
Would you listen to family members and friends that want to see your pain end and tell you to amputate?
Would you simply cut off the arm so you could have closure and end the pain?
Except that the pain would not end, because you would be missing an arm, phantom pains will happen, and regret can set in, if you started to think you could have done more to save the arm.
Or will you fight for that arm and do everything in your power to heal and know that the cards will fall where they may and you will be okay.
I know you get the point here.
I will ask again.
Which path will you choose?
KyleR it is past time for you to listen up and get yourself together. Your daughter needs you to man up. Your future you, needs you to man up. Take back the power from your WAW through owning your emotions, actions, thoughts and behaviors.
Read back through your thread. Would you be attracted to you? Will your future self be proud of you if you up to this point?
Will you heed the advice and feedback you have been provided by so many in this community?
Do what you gotta do, but take a moment to be sure that your future self will be proud of your decisions and actions. You owe it to yourself and your daughter.
You will do what you need to do, but I hope and pray it is the right thing for you and your family my friend. I will no longer try to convince you that you are reeling now and your thoughts and actions thus far will only bring more pain. There are enough examples of that in this community. Don't add to those examples. But do what you gotta do. I wish you the best.
So my W has some scary sixth sense. She has told me she wants to sit down and talk about divorce in a couple of weeks.
It looks like this is happening.
Hi Kyler. How do you feel about that ? In one way it might make it easier for you because now she will file and you don't have to worry about upsetting her feelings about the reason ( unreasonable behaviour )
The post from SH was a great one and most of the advice you have got has been solid You are spinning right now and that's a hard place to make choices from.
All you W is doing , has been done by lots of WAS seen on here before. She is rushing to get away from you so she can be happy. Until she realises that you aren't the reason for her unhappiness then she will continue down this path
All you can do is to look after you and live your life for you.
We all hope that the WAS has this moment of clarity and leaps into our arms begging forgiveness but that's not real life.
Stay strong. Rd
Don't really know how I feel. In a strange way I feel a bit relieved.
I've spent so long reading in to things and analysing everything she says that I've been living in false hope. This however is a clear message that she sees us as over and there is nothing more to read in to.
A part of me is allowing me to think that she might come back revitalized and ready to fight after her trip but who knows.
Hi Kyler. Firstly there is always hope but I. The short to medium term I would expect anything from her except the usual script from a WAS
Right now she is done , and that's very hard to grasp. Her reasons may be sound or maybe in her head but to her , right now , they are 100% true and once you really believe that , you will be in a stronger place
IMHO stop talking to her friends about her, accept that she is done and start to live your life for you. What hobbies do you have , what things would you like to do or places would you like to visit ?
How about making today the first day of the new Kyler who chooses to live a happy and productive life for him and his kids. If one day W wants back in then you can see how you feel about that but that's for the future of ever
Take care. Rd
Yeah, I think I may find it easier to let go know although I know I'm still going to worry about her finding/sleeping with someone else.
I'm just about to head out for a but of clothes shopping. I've lost 35 lb so need to get some new jeans etc.
KyleR
Try to keep as much emotion out of the talks as possible if D is the topic.
Your future self and family will thank you.
Google " The Truth about Divorce". The second link to show has a blog from a DL named Karen that has helped me with this among other things.
I wish you well as you head down the path you are choosing.
Not really my choosing anymore, my W seems set on the idea. I definitely won't let emotions get in my way though.
The blog can still provide you good info and advice if it is the choice of your W.
My D was her choice as well, and the info in the blog held me stay grounded and make decisions not centered on emotions.
It's a script. Why two weeks? If she wanted to D, then why not just go out and do it? Ah, that's because she wants to see you in a nervous ball of disaster, pleading and yearning for her.
Go back and read all your homework again. Hold your nerve and start to build confidence. This is not the time to crumble and fall; it's time for KyleR to become a 'man'.
Went shopping with my Dad today and got some lunch. Was a nice day and bought myself some new clothes which is unlike me.
Just got to laugh, she's told me that she's going to file for D but it's won't be for at least a year because she can't afford it.
I probably shouldn't have done it but I told her that I will file then and I'll just take it off the money I'm giving her for the joint loan we took out. This was not received well with her saying that she could not afford to lose that money each month as she's in a dire financial situation even saying "you're in a better financial situation then me". It ended with her saying that we can talk about it when she gets back from her trip.
To be harsh, tough. Typical WAW/WW, it's all about them. So, D'ing you will solve this financial woe somehow? Don't bend to her talks idea - only when you want to talk. Tine to be tough yourself.
Hi all, been a while since posting thought I would take a few days to unwind and take stock
Nothing really new to report other then my W phoned me last night at about 11pm to ask if I can have my D5 today as she's been sick and can't go to school. Obviously I said yes but made a point of dropping in a comment to show I'm not doing it as a favour to my W and it was because I wanted to see my D.
When I met my W this morning to get my D my W looked like s**t, hair was a mess, no make up and dressed terribly (struck me as odd as she was on her way to work at a private school!). One thing I noticed is my wife couldn't look me in the face when talking to me, I made a point of being happy and confident while trying to make eye contact and she looked everywhere but at me.
Hi Kyle, it's good that you get to spend some extra time with your D. WRT the comment you made about not doing her a favour....I think it's best to step back from comments like that as I don't think they help 'pave the way.'
I would keep it simple - if you can help, help. If you can't, don't and if she is asking you to do something that is a boundary issue for you, let her know that you won't be able to help because you're busy etc.
JMHO of course and hope you had a nice day with your D
I'll bare that in mind for future reference, thank you?
I'm interested by people's opinions on the fact she looks like she's falling apart? It was definitely odd that she couldn't look me in the face either.
Guilt. Part of the script. Remember, they THINK their live is better, the reality is, however, slightly different.
I always think it's best not to spend too much time wondering about what's happening with them and why. Though it sounds as though your W wasn't having the best day. But if she's been ill, that could be it and not much to do with your sitch, but who knows? Since our S, there have been occasions where XH sounded and acted pretty much as though things were falling apart. His R with OW was on and off etc.
However, WRT to your sitch, it doesn't pay to spend time thinking about where she's at. Fact is, given all circumstances, unless she tells you directly that she's made a huge mistake, wants to reconcile and will do whatever it takes to reconcile - I would continue on your own path and not pay too much heed to how she looks, seems etc.
A good attitude to cultivate is one where you can observe something (ie: she looks unkempt) think - 'oh that's interesting' and go about your day without giving it too much headspace....ie: a reasonably detached perspective.
JMHO of course and hope that helps :-)
I must admit guilt was the first thing I thought of too. It is sad so look at my W and see a shell of the women I use to know, I looked at her face and there was nothing behind her eyes, almost robotic in nature.
She leaves for her trip to Boston on Friday so will be interested to know what version of my W returns. A part of me is hoping that it be just what she needs to help start seeing clearly.
Hey KyleR,
I'm glad to see that it looks like you've finally calmed down a bit from the initial breakdown. It takes time to process this and I know it's hard to implement a lot of the guidance/advice on the DB tactics. You've done well so far.
I think what Sotto and others are saying are correct. Yes, she might look like crap, she might behave oddly in your interactions, and while it's hard not to analyze what's behind it, how she truly feels, what she's doing, etc... it's best for you to continue your path and not focus on these things.
Also, the comment on making it known "you're not doing this for your W", would you consider that the "high road" in this situation? It's like you're being passive aggressive in nature by pointing out you're negative feelings toward your W. I wouldn't consider that as a reflection of a positive attitude. A simple yes or no does the trick and over time all that other stuff will play out on it's own.
I must admit guilt was the first thing I thought of too. It is sad so look at my W and see a shell of the women I use to know, I looked at her face and there was nothing behind her eyes, almost robotic in nature.
She leaves for her trip to Boston on Friday so will be interested to know what version of my W returns. A part of me is hoping that it be just what she needs to help start seeing clearly.
So much of your focus is on her.
DBing is about turning our focus to ourself.
Read Sotto's post again.
Wise advice you should follow.
KyleR, read your own posts.
If your W were to read them would she find you more or less attractive than she see's you now.
We are what we continually think.
Our thoughts drive our actions.
What are you doing to be a better KyleR?
What are your goals?
What are you doing to be the person only a fool would leave?
I continue to follow and post to your thread hoping the advice of so many may aid you in your sitch, but you must choose the path.
You must decide what you hope to accomplish.
You and your family continue to be in my prayers.
Just needed to pop back in to sound off!
So I took the day off unpaid today to look after our poorly D5 today which I have absolutely no problem with. What I do have a problem with is finding out that my W only went into work until 11am but instead of coming to collect our poorly D5 she went home for a nap then went to go and have her eyebrows done and have a waxing. She didn't actually pick her up until 6pm!
The selfishness is unbelievable, I'm so angry.
Kyle -
If this were really true:
Obviously I said yes but made a point of dropping in a comment to show I'm not doing it as a favour to my W and it was because I wanted to see my D.
then your W's actions below shouldnt matter at all. You got to see your daughter. Case closed. In fact, you got 7 EXTRA hours with your daughter because your W was tending to herself...
my W only went into work until 11am but instead of coming to collect our poorly D5 she went home for a nap then went to go and have her eyebrows done and have a waxing. She didn't actually pick her up until 6pm!
Sounds to me like you did a favor for W and didnt get the response you were expecting.
This has nothing to do with my W reaction!
I'm angry because of my W complete lack of maternal instincts. If I could be with my children when they're poorly I would choose that over going home and napping, she also left our D11 alone at home for 2 hours while she got pampered.
This is why I'm angry.
If I could be with my children when they're poorly I would choose that over going home and napping
Exactly my point.
You expected something from your W and were upset when she didn't meet them. I'm not saying what she did was right. But in my opinion, the only reason you are angry is because you had some level of expectation.
How about this...knowing that your D was with you, what would you think W SHOULD have done if she had "maternal instincts"?
Honestly I would have thought she would have messaged me and told me she's finished work and at least offered to take my D back home with her.
Hi Kyler. Darkness is right , your W knew D was with you and could t be safer so she took time for her shes told you she doesn't love you and she wants a divorce , why would you expect her to think of you ??
Kyler , it's understandable to have expectations of a W but your W has resigned from that position so you have to stop having expectations of her
All having expectations will do is upset you because she won t live up to them
Just my humble opinion
Take care. Rd
Usual selfish behaviour, I'm afraid. Imagine it like this; your W doesn't want you anymore, but wants the best bits of your relationship. She still wants the safety and security you bring to the family (as in the way you looked after your sick child), but thinks that she is now entitled to 'me' time. Yeah, it [censored], but you did your job (being a Dad), so it's not worth losing your head about how she reacted. You were a great Dad - that means something to your D. That's worth remembering, as your D will remember this in years to come.
I think part of my reaction is because she is disappearing on her trip to Boston tomorrow for 6 days and I'm still annoyed/worried about that.
She's not going to see our D for 6 days so you would think she would want to spend as much time as possible with them now.
I need to remember she isn't the women I married anymore.
Honestly I would have thought she would have messaged me and told me she's finished work and at least offered to take my D back home with her.
I can understand your frustration. You took off work unpaid, and if she were going to cut out early, it's annoying that she didnt just take the day off so that you didnt have to.
That said, you noted that you didnt do this for W....you did this for D. You also mentioned that you were upset with her for not spending time with your D that doesnt feel well; so if your W had come to get her, then what would you have done instead - I assume it wouldnt have been "spend time with your sick daughter."
I can understand why you are angry. Im just trying to convey to you that the things you are angry about arent really your business anymore. You cant control your W's relationship with your daughter. Feel glad that you got to spend the day with your daughter - thats whats really important here.
Phoned my W earlier to see how our D5 was and just had a chat about her. I bit annoyed with myself as I wished my W a good trip and told her to stay safe, the words just fell out of my mouth. She said thank you but I don't know if this is going to seem like pursuing.
Yes. Unfortunately, normal M&W rules don't apply anymore. It's difficult to not be 'nice' - it is, after all, a normal reaction to a loved one. Unfortunately, that position is currently vacant. Put it down to experience. It's a long road ahead.
normal M&W rules don't apply anymore.
I'm sorry to butt in, what is "M&W"? I must be having a brainfart this morning.
Phoned my W earlier to see how our D5 was and just had a chat about her. I bit annoyed with myself as I wished my W a good trip and told her to stay safe, the words just fell out of my mouth. She said thank you but I don't know if this is going to seem like pursuing.
To me, to us, I don't see this as pursuing as much as it says you're showing interest in her activities. To a WAS, it's probably seen as pursuing. Are you (yourself) interested in her life right now? Should you be? Or just how it plays a part in your D5 life?
Remember what I said about her selfishness motivating her? Everything is about her! Do not expect her to show you any consideration.....unless she has some ulterior motive in mind. If there's nothing in it for her, she's not interested and could care less how much trouble it causes someone else.
You will continue to see her put her desires before her own children's needs. You will continue to see her take advantage of you, unless you have some very effective boundaries in place.
My advice is to learn for this experience and don't use precious energy in fuming about her lack of maternal instincts. Think of how to handle the situation, should it arise again. I think you'll get another shot at it.
Thank you everyone for your comments. I will admit I still have a huge interest in my W life and want to know what she's doing and who she's doing it with all the time, probably why I'm so worried about her trip because I will have no way of knowing.
Like you say Sandi I full expect for this to happen again and I will be prepared for it. It's tough when it comes to the kids because if it's an opportunity to see them more then I'm always going to take if but I don't want to appear to be a push over to my W.
Understandable. It's part of detachment. I'm still grappling - 14months in!
I wished my W a good trip
I don't know if this is going to seem like pursuing.
In my opinion, it is pursuing, but not really bad.
What stinks about it is more that you are approving of the behavior. As I said before, I think it's likely she's meeting an OM. If so, what kind of message are you sending by telling her to "have a good trip"?
Oh well. Live and learn.
That's where we differ because I'm confident that there isn't another man involved, Boston wasn't even her first choice. She literally picked the place with the cheapest flights at the time, this has been confirmed to me by a friend present at the time of booking.
Just stopping by to check up on you Kyle, I know the trip is coming up and wanted to make sure your ok. You can do this, just focus on you and your child...
Thanks for stopping by Cnut.
A little update on my sich.
Wife is currently in Boston doing god knows what, I know she's alive and well so that's a plus I suppose.
Had an amazing weekend with my D5, she was an absolute angel and I had my first ever driving lesson which left me on a high.
I've now lost 35lb and I'm really seeing the results, feeling more energetic and being able to buy nicer clothes is a plus.
I went out for a drink with some friends on Saturday night and someone actually flirted with me, nearly collapsed!
Wife is back Wednesday still not sure of we're having the D talk.
From great mood to back down to earth in the space of 12 hours.
My sil has phoned me today concerned that my children are being neglected. Apparently my D11 (who I haven't seen in weeks) is riddled with headlice, literally hundreds of the buggers. She sent me a photo which reduced me to tears.
Not sure what to do?
Has anyone experienced possible neglect of their children and how did you handle it?
Need some advice on this one
Kyle
Document at this point unless you feel it is severe. You know your W better than anyone but if you feel you need to take action to seriously protect your kids then maybe you should discuss woth an IC.
My SIL was in tears when she phoned me. She informed me that the headlice were literally falling out of her hair and would assume that it has been that way for at least a couple of months.
She also told me that my D11 is starting to smell of BO and her clothes smell sweaty most of the time, it also doesn't look like she has been brushing her teeth and her hair is greasy and horrible.
I've been informed that there's no food in the house and just alcohol in the fridge.
I've told my SIL that if she's this concerned then she needs to tell my W as I'm in no position to do so.
Yikes. Sounds like things are falling apart over there with your W and your poor kids are having to deal with the consequences. I'm not so sure that it's "not your position" to say something if it's truly affecting the health of your children though. I'm not experienced in dealing with sitches with kids, but if those were my kids, walking around, smelly, dingy, greasy, bad teeth, and lice, I'd be calling my L, yesterday.
Also, if your SIL is truly concerned about the kids, and she continues to not speak up to your W for whatever reasons, but instead just keeps telling you about everything... Maybe should could help with the "documentation process" by sending some pics of what might be going on over there (the fridge/food/alcohol, living environment, etc). I wouldn't tell her that's what she's doing (providing documentation), but asking her to send pics of things so you better understand what it's like over there... isn't going to hurt anything.
Just curious.
Why haven't you seen D11 in weeks?
Kyle, read up on what's going on with me.
Your WW isn't communicating with you like mine has, but she is obviously having troubles. Your kids are at stake. If she doesn't want help, that's up to her. You cannot allow your kids to be neglected though!
I've told my SIL that if she's this concerned then she needs to tell my W as I'm in no position to do so.
KyleR, might I suggest you put yourself in a position to do so. Unless there is some legal document that I missed in your story here saying you have no right to your children and have a restraining order from them, you then have a moral and fatherly obligation to put yourself in a position to take care of and protect your d.
This is not a disagreement between you and your W on what friends your d can have or what style of clothing she wears. This is a health and safety issue that you need to get very involved in. It may even be a neglect issue based on laws that I am aware of in most places.
This is MHO as my daughters come above all else in the sitch we find ourselves in. I would worry about my WAW in the same manner as I would worry about a teacher, daycare person or neighbor if I saw this. Which is to say I would not care about them in the least as I acted to care for the child.
I hope you can find a remedy for this sitch promptly for your daughters sake.
I've not seen my D11 in weeks because on the weekend I have my D5 she goes to her biological dads house and I don't want to have the girls on alternate weekends as then they will never have a weekend together.
The reason I say I'm in no position is because my W has built up so many walls that I believe she will see it as an attack. I believe that my SIL and MIL are in a better position to voice their/our concerns then me and actually get some positive results.
If they speak to her and there is no improvement I will be forced to take some action though. I am already building a gallery of photos and I'm keeping all correspondence pertaining to my daughters.
Think I need to start a new thread so will be continued.