Still here and need support 2 - DivorceBusting.com

Can you please tell me how to link to old thread?

just got off the phone with WAW. we discussed some of our R history. I told her I had reacted lately out of emotions and said I was sorry for that. I told her I was working on treating her with love, kindness, respect, and empathy no matter what happens between us. These are things I need to work on for my own well being. I have had to much resentment and bitterness that I know is not healthy for me. I have caught myself reacting by emotion without enough pause and replies out of love and kindness. I am not trying to convince her of anything as she says there is too much water under the bridge and all the things that she has documented that I did not do in the past. detaching is hard but I know I have to get a grip for my own sanity and well-being. thank you for all of your input and care it really helps. prayers to everyone to have better days going forward

Poschan

I used to have an awful time with WAW criticising to get a rise and then had raging. I learned to notice my emotions but not get involved. I used to do the same with hers. Listen to the words there are always golden nuggets of advice - you never listen etc. Listen for those things try validating but mostly listen take some mental notes and try and act on the advice. You will find it hard but if you think of it like a game it helps. It's the "I can control my emotions like a god game". You may actually find you amuse yourself when thinking "wow you really have lost it but I have seen this before and it's ok". It's a skill set you will carry with you in life if you can do it and it's really useful. Alternatively you can try to imagine whatever she is saying Is being said in the nicest possible way. It's quite hard to do but it does help.

Someone told me that it's all about not getting sucked into the emotions, notice yours and hers understand and accept them but don't get pulled in. It's the same as noticing a raging river you see it's fast flowing and dangerous but just because you see it from the river bank it doesn't mean you would be wise to go in there and get into serious danger.

You will get better, just consciously practice it. If you find she is winding you up, get away from her. You could try listening to mindfulness apps such as calm or headspace. They really help too.

Thanks Surfer. I definitely have been getting sucked into the rapids and I will tryout your advice. Thanks for the apps suggestions too I will check them out.

They are free but I subscribe to the calm one. Don't suggest you do to begin with as there is plenty in the free versions - hope it helps. Exercise is the other great leveller. Perhaps try to avoid alcohol and cigarettes if you can - they tend to make you edgy rather than taking the edge off.

Previous Thread:

Still here and need support

I linked your old thread for you this time. To answer your question, you like your old threads the same way that you did y our new ones, i.e., you did a great job on linking the new one in your old thread.

Edit:

"To answer your question, you link (not like) your old threads the same way...."

thanks Job and Surfer

Drive by check in.
How is your GAL coming along?

had a good day Saturday golfing with friends and all day yesterday with d7. we had a great day. thanks for checking in SH. SH where can I find your latest thread?

I still get knots in my stomach for some reason. Trying to use meditation techniques to help. I miss having d7 here and trying to keep myself busy so that I don't get so depressed. She is the light of my world. I will have d7 tomorrow through Friday so that will be a welcome change. not hardly any communication with WAW other than occasional text. I picked up d7 for Fathers day activities at WAW house and WAW said happy fathers day and gave me a hug. d7 has big events these next 2 nights and I will be her biggest fan and supporter. trying to hang in there. tough to get out of bed in the mornings and I tend to get more accomplished in the afternoon/evening.
Able to sleep without meds but still wake at odd hours sometimes with great sadness. I have also been having dreams about WAW which is new.

I had dreams about WAW too the last few days.. you are not alone. It is probably the loneliness kicking in.

Enjoy every moment with your D, my relationship with my D9 has really blossomed over the last 3 months and we are probably much closer now than we have ever been.

Thanks Pac. I really miss seeing her everyday but I need to accept this new reality as difficult as it is. The pain and sorrow is excruciating. I know in time it will lessen and pass but some days are just plain hard

Originally Posted By: poschan

had a good day Saturday golfing with friends and all day yesterday with d7. we had a great day. thanks for checking in SH. SH where can I find your latest thread?

Take it one day at a time my friend. You are doing well.
Dreams are a bugger. The mind wants to make sense of what the mind wants to make sense of.
I try to determine what was in my head that would have my mind paint a dream. This takes the sting out of it, because then I know why the mind went there. Makes me feel more in control. I discussed a dream in one of my threads and how I connected the dots.
Works for me, but I know there are different schools of thought on dreams.
I say acknowledge them, but try not to dwell on them if they hurt.

Here is my latest thread. SH latest thread

Thanks SH. Weird experience last night at d7 big event. d7 sat in between WAW and me and put both of our hands in her lap in a group hand hold. it was nice. WAW asked me to get her a glass of wine, she seemed a little tipsy but I obliged. WAW seemed happy and playful with me not sure what to make of it since there has been hardly any communication between us. At one point WAW commented that "this may be good for us". Not sure what to read into it all. WAW was cursing a lot not out of anger just during normal conversation. d7 has 2d night of event so it will be interesting to see how WAW acts. Any opinion on her change of behavior?

Why read into it? You said she was tipsy. Give her a couple of hours, she'll change again.

thanks sandi, I was expecting a 2x4 or 2

you were right sandi. completely different animal last night. less communication and more ugly looks. WAW mom was there so maybe that had something to do with it. WAW syndrome continues! how is it possible to even be hopeful for repair when WAW lives separately and there is little to no communication?

There is always hope.
The separation may benefit for her clearing the fog.
But for now, time is the gift.
Use it to be the man you would want to be so that of the fog clears you will be in ready.
If the fog does not clear, then you will still be ready for what ever is next in your future.
Stay the course. Focus on you.

I've come to realize the only thing that may bring them back is patience on our part and time on theirs. They need time to figure things out and feel a sense of loss - right now they are enjoying their freedom too much to feel anything! We can't rush the process, rushing it will only push them further away.

I'm actually looking forward to a weekend just the two of us (D and me).

Thanks SH, I appreciate and am thankful for your input.

Thanks too PL...it's a blessing to have d7 with me these last few days. Going to GAL this weekend as much as possible and work on myself. I have so many house projects on my list I don't know where to begin.

poschan what are you doing for GAL this weekend?
What are you doing for you?

Just wanted to get some feedback from you on the aspects of your day to day that are focused on your progress.

Thanks SH. d7 and I had a nice dinner Friday night and listened to some live music. Yesterday, after working in the yard for a few hot hours, a friend came over and we went kayaking and did some fishing along the way. It was nice to float on the water and watch the sunset and roll along with the waves. We talked quite a bit about my situation, friend mostly listening to me. We also discussed friends Rs and life obstacles. All in all a very good day. Woke up today feeling lonely without d7 and also thinking about past experiences with WAW. Stomach still tends to tie into knots. Trying to get some work done today since I will have d7 M and T.
My new mantra is "focus on me"

still having trouble getting motivated in the morning for some reason. I need to do a 180 and get up earlier. I am a night owl and tend to work later into the evenings. d7 is with me today and tomorrow and d7 grandma and grandpa will be visiting which will be nice. Still haven't made a meetup activity but get the daily event feeds in my inbox. it is nice to know that there is a lot of activities out there for me to check out. i'm somewhat of a homebody so I need to get out and meet some new people. Plan to GAL Friday night and go see some live music at a private party and intend to meet some new people there.
Still find myself wondering what WAW is doing and who she maybe seeing. Not sure if I should hire a PI to investigate. Not sure how it would help my situation as I live in a no fault state. I think it would hurt even more emotionally to know but if it helps with custody it may be the right thing to do.

I like your new mantra. Wise words and actions to follow.

I start my day of with a jog or weight training to get moving and motivated. I listen to music that pumps me up.

Get on those meetup opportunities. No use in waiting around. Your on the right track with the GAL stuff. Just keep at it.

How does knowing if she is with someone else help with custody? Just curios if it is a no fault state, not sure that it matters.

Thanks SH. You're right need to get going on the GAL activities. Since it will not likely affect custody, probably no sense in hiring a PI. Finding out any infidelity would only hurt more. I'm having a hard enough time accepting WAW walking away from the R and M without adding more fuel to the fire. d7 will be with WAW for the next 3 days so need to get some work done and find some GAL activities.

What new GAL activities have you come up with?
What are you doing this weekend for you?

Been a few days since posting and still having ups and downs. had a great day with d7 on Saturday full of activities and we enjoyed them all. almost 12 hours of art, museums, carriage ride...then we even had time for a swim. I told her she could go stay with MIL FIL for his bday on sunday so I lost a day there. FIL did not seem to be thankful at all for me doing so and driving to meet them. I spent part of SUnday and Monday doing things that needed to be done around the house I did golf with a good friend on Sunday which was nice ended up playing more holes until dark after he left.
Taking d7 camping for the first time tomorrow which will be a great adventure. Looking forward to it but forgot how much stuff there is to pack...
Hope to get into a meetup group when I get back. I am also going to try some yoga and other healthy activities that I've been wanting to try. Need to change my routine and get up and out early to kickstart my day.
Still seem to have sadness in the morning and really miss d7 when she is not here but I am beginning to accept and yield to the situation.
A book was recommended that I recommend to others "A New Earth" by Eckert Tolle (sp?)
Thanks SH for checking in and "focus on me"

You are on the right track with the GAL.
You are also doing well to enjoy the moments with your d. this is key, for not only you, but also her. Keep at it and enjoy every quality moment you can.

The sadness is to be expected. Continue to acknowledge it and lat it pass.
Take active steps to heal from he sadness. It is possible and with the work and efforts you can grow from this part of the cycle as well.
I will add that book to my reading list. It grows everyday, but there is so much out there of value and the more we read, the more knowledge and tools we will have for our progress.

I am here for you and look forward to your updates and to lend thoughts and ideas as you seek them.

Give your d a big hug when you see her next and relish each second of it.

took d7 and we had a great camping trip in the national forest (her first). I had a backup site in a real campground but d7 wanted to stay remote on the river so we did. we did a lot of swimming and a hike. it was a lot of fun for both of us. beautiful place.
WAW had something on her rental door last week and asked if I knew what it was...she thought I had served her and said "I thought we were doing this without Ls" I told her I had no clue what it was. normally I would have helped her figure out what it was but just left it alone. I am there to listen but these are her messes and issues now. It felt good to not care about it.
WAW met us out for dinner last night and thanked me for a gift I brought her birthday (one of her favorite beer types). I am glad she thanked me for that and dinner and gift. she gave me a hug and d7 asked for a family hug which was nice.
d7 said she asked WAW how long this would go on and WAW told her til she was 18. d7 said she wish she could be here in the house she knows and was born in. I didn't know what to say.
I do wish that we could be a family again but I have to be realistic...WAW has moved out and probably on...
I did do some things for me lately. Met some friends in the mountains and played a few days of golf. I plan to do more when I get some time.
day by day...

Sounds like a great trip with d7. Those are the good times you both will always cherish.

Sounds like you are making some good efforts with GAL.

Now tell me, how are your feeling mentally? The post here has a hint of being down. What are you doing to put a smile on your face and I your heart?

Poschan

Hope all is well and I like reading your D7 stories as my D is the same age.

That has to be tough when your daughter tells you about the question of how long will this go on. Tears at your heart . Do you want to scream "IF YOUR MOM woke up and smelled the coffee we would betrying to get back together!!! " "And its her fault!!! " But...as the parent you keep that inside

I move out in a few weeks and it feels like I am the bad guy who divorced and cheated. If I could do this over again I would have put the foot down and exposed her back in January and not moved. BUT I do believe in Karma...

Also reading into your post a bit as SH did...but hope you are doing OK and things will get better for you!

SH: I do have ups and downs. Downs seem to be random but I tend to notice more after d7 has been with me a few days and leaves for WAW house. When I'm out and see other families it hurts because I want to be a family again but the reality of my situation speaks otherwise. Time seems to be the dominant factor. The more time that passes the sadness seems to be less frequent. I'm still having a difficult time motivating in the mornings...afternoons and evenings I seem to have more clarity and energy. One day/step at a time...

rich4j: nice to hear from you and that you follow my situation. It does help to know that we are not alone and have similar situations as others. I do try to keep things inside for the most part but I do slip at time...saying that this is WAW choice and not mine when d7 inquires. I leave it at that and probably shouldn't say anything but I want her to know I still have hope for the family reuniting. thanks for the support and I hope your move goes well. When WAW moved out it was difficult for me but I made sure to keep busy and not be around too much. Don't forget that you are not the bad guy...they made their choices no matter how much they try and justify or blame.
I have been trying my best to acknowledge my emotions/pain and then to let them pass without dwelling but like most everything easier said than done. I have to realize that God has a plan for me and this is my path and to appreciate and be grateful for all that I have.

going through a variety of emotions and feelings these past few days, sadness to joy and back and forth. I want my family unit back but I also have big reservations about my WAW. lack of commitment to the family seems to be one of the biggest issues as I am not sure I want to be with someone who does not have the same commitment that I do. I know, WAW seems to have exited for good anyway and I have no choice in the matter. What happened to "through sickness and health"...I guess the vows are not as important to her than me. I did some GAL for myself these past few days getting out an kayaking. I still haven't done a meetup event yet as I have had too much work on my plate. WAW still hasn't filed for D which I guess is a good thing...

Poschan

Hardest thing for me which sounds like you are going thru is "family unit"

It is the part that hurts the most as I was at the beach and saw other families together and it kills me. It feels like this is being robbed from me and my daughter.

But I would ask yourself if its the family unit or "HER" and not being with her that brings you sadness? I am finding its the family unit more if I am honest with myself right now. Maybe its the resentment, anger or detachment

Maybe thinking that way and seeing what is really making you sad can help?

I can empathize with the family unit too... being on vacation without W and seeing other families together kills me. But I do miss W in a big way too, knowing she's in all likelihood spending time with OM while we are away enjoying her fantasy life.

I don't know as if there's an easy answer to this, we've basically been robbed of this and are having our family units torn apart. For me it's anger and frustration that there's nothing we can do to quick fix this.

Yes I think it is the family unit. The more I think about the past the more I ask myself if I want to be with someone who lacks commitment and doesn't have my back no matter what. I feel the same sadness or loss when I see other families together. I have to believe that God has a plan in all this and have faith and know that it will be and is ok. This is my new path. Thanks for the input rich and pac. Its comforting in some on odd way to know that our stories are alot alike.

a few things that WAW said a few weeks ago continue to bother me and I wanted to ask for feedback. WAW said that I was a major reason that she moved out. I believe this is just to provide more justification in her mind for her decisions but it still does bring about guilt and thought about what things I did to drive her away. I know that I bear some of the burden but I never turned my back on her nor did I leave. I'm still here waiting for her to come back. The other thing was her stating that she intends to be married again and would not agree to having someone over when d7 was there. having little to no contact with someone who you have been with for over 12 years is just so surreal. I couldn't fathom my really close friends ever doing anything like what WAW has. on a positive note, I decided on a last minute trip to visit some friends out of town. It will be good to get away and there will be lots of good laughs with this bunch.

Originally Posted By: poschan

The other thing was her stating that she intends to be married again and would not agree to having someone over when d7 was there. having little to no contact with someone who you have been with for over 12 years is just so surreal.

Married again? Why would she state that...I think its just a way for her to continue to kick you in the shins. My STBX won't admit to the relationship she is in but said she would even have trouble being in a relationship right now nevertheless get married. I think she is just verbally punching you

And its all surreal. Not sure how anyone can just turn off the switch with someone you have been with for so long. I know I am going to try to have as little contact as possible and I know it will be quiet and lonely at first but its just the new path you are going down and will change over time when you find someone else worthy of being with you.

The blame game will always continue until one day maybe they wake up to realize they were also part of the issue

the trip went well, great seeing everyone and lots of laughs. I missed d7 a lot since that has been the longest time away. she is with me now and its great having her here. we talked some about how she is doing and she wishes we could be a family again. I tell her that is what I want too. I have not had much anxiety until this past weekend when I woke up and had some terrible anxiety. I assume it will come and go from time to time. Being away didn't help as now I am scrambling to get work projects finished. one of d7s friends asked WAW if she would ever come back home and she said probably not.

thanks rich. I agree, they obviously have a different wiring to be able to just flip a switch and be done. I can still hear the original words: "i'm done and ILYBNILWU..." WAW seems to be repeating a cycle of her childhood. maybe one day she wakes up and realizes the mistake...don't have much hope for that. life is short and we LBSs deserve better.

i'm not sure where the sadness is coming from but I have been very depressed today and yesterday even though d7 has been with me. I try to identify the source but am unable to identify it. I grew up in a single parent household and it may be coming from the fact that d7 will be too. hopefully tomorrow is better for me, d7 deserves it

P-

I would expect you have one and off days of sadness for a while. You are mourning a loss.
I have up and down days/weeks. And like you even with my D7....I was at dinner the other night with her and got really sad seeing the families together with the moms/dads together and got sad for D7

Its tough and I can only say it may just take time before that subsides. It seems some WAW do wake up eventually and many too late and some never. I don't hope for it and think it would be super difficult anyway to go back. At least back to crazy town....

You are 2 months out since WAW moved out so give it some time my friend..it will hopefully get better. I start my solo journey this weekend and I am sure the loneliness will give me more ups and downs too.

poschan, try not to dwell on determining what the triggers are. It won't change the feelings.

What things are you doing to enhance your emotional state so that the sad and depressive feelings are more manageable.

I have been reading much about feelings and emotions and an interesting thing I have picked up is that they are not one and the same.
Feelings are something we can not really control as our brain and body react based on the way we humans are created. So the feeling that we call anxiety can be triggered by things that can be considered dangerous, like a bear running across your path. Or they can be triggered by something that we encounter that is uncomfortable like say, public speaking.

Now bear with me as I do have a point here.

What we call emotions, are actually the labels that we slap onto the feelings. The part that I want you to pay attention to here is this.
The feeling that hits us when we are in actual danger ( the bear). Is the same feeling that hits us right before we get in front of a crowd of 500 people to speak.
Would you label these with the same emotion. Probably not because one is dangerous and life threatening, and the other is embarrassing, but safe from true harm. But the feeling is the same.

So this weekend, my d18 was pretty uptight Saturday evening. When I asked her what was up, she said that she was feeling an anxiety attack coming on. I asked her why. She said she was nervous and scared to go to the new church meeting the following day with the single folks. She struggles with some social anxiety. So I suggested she not go so she could calm down. Now I did not, not want her to go, but I wanted to try and apply the above learning with her.
She said that she needed to go as she had committed to it, and she knew it would be good for her to get out of her comfort zone and meet some new people.

I then proposed that she repeat back to me her reason for feeling the anxiety attack coming on, only I asked that she swap out the words nervous and scared with excited and anxious.
She did so. We discussed it for a few minutes with the positive emotion labels.
About 10 or 15 minutes later she was giddy like a school girl and chatting about the fun things she looked forward to. No anxiety attack came on.

My anxiety attacks went from running through me daily and all day ( see my threads) to subsiding all together when I got tired of trying to figure out triggers and decided to label the shakes with common things like being tired, consuming caffeine after not doing so for several months, and several other things. I did not realize at the time I stumbled across the secret until I have been reading up on this. No anxiety attacks since and my anxiety media are collecting dust in the medicine cabinet.

So way longer ramble than I had meant to, but hopefully some of this can help you poschan.

Smiles. Smiles are another trick. Smile even if you don't feel like it. Your body shoots off some chemicals that help.
If mustering up a smile seems to hard to do, then google the following.
F*ck that A guided meditation.
I guarantee at least a little smile.

thanks rich and SH.

rich: good luck with the transition I will say some prayers for you and that you have peace with it all. i'm not sure if I could go back either even if WAW did want to. I probably would try for the sake of d7 though. I feel bad for d7 and it rips my heart out every time she tells someone (even complete strangers) of the divorce. WAW is pressing to get the MDA completed so I expect that will be done this week. she is worried about finances and says I owe here such and such (the equity from the house). I have since refinanced but will keep the proceeds in savings until the MDA is signed.

SH: thanks for the info on the thought process. Are you saying that we should try and substitute a positive statement for the negative when the negative thoughts occur? Can you provide some specific examples that you think have helped with solving the anxiety issues?

rich can you send me a link to your thread?

rich I found your latest thread...

SH any suggestions on how to enhance emotional state?

poschan,

I gotta hit the hay, but I wanted to let you k ow I just saw your post.
I will try to swing by tomorrow to share some thoughts and see if I can shed some light on ways to enhance emotional states.

poschan -- it's not a quick (will take about two months of diligent practice) or perfect fix, but meditation will help your emotional state. Others include talking to a good mental health counselor. And, of course, regular exercise.

Thanks JRuss.
Currently received a draft marital dissolution agreement and parenting plan. So, after review and signature, looks like the D will be put into motion.

Tried my first meetup activity last night, a mindfulness meditation class. The class was pleased that I attended and traveled from an adjacent city to get there. we did some qigong that combines movement, breathing, and visualization to cultivate the body�s energy. It initiates the relaxation response, decreasing heart rate and blood pressure while enhancing the efficiency of the body�s immune system. The teacher also read some poetry and readings about meditation and mindfulness. All in all a great experience and gave me a daily meditation to practice.
I hope to try a few more meetup groups for me

I was just looking through some old texts from WAW. In one I was asking why she left and her response was that she had asked me 3 times to go to counseling and that justified her walking away. I know I shouldn't dwell on the past but I still find myself trying to understand it all.
On another note, WAW keeps saying that I owe her $ ("you owe me my $; I want my $..."). We agreed to a certain payout to her from the home equity. However, nothing has been filed and the MDA is in draft stage. Any suggestions on how best to respond to her?

poschan - if you can understand WAW then MWD should put you on the payroll.

WRT the money - how about "It's up to the lawyers now" or if you want to be nasty "It's up to the lawyers now and they get the first slice of cake". Being callous here - if she's desperate for it then perhaps she would accept less and you get it from a home equity loan?

Good point AP, I'll just let her know that the lawyers are on it and I don't have any control over their review.
d7 continues to tell me how rude and mean WAW is...I stay silent and tell her I am sorry to hear that. d7 will be with me for the next 3 days so looking forward to that. we've been very busy when we are together doing lots of fun activities.

Trying another meetup activity tonight, looking forward to meeting with some new folks again. Going to GAL tomorrow afternoon just for me too.
Still have bouts of sadness; but starting to realize it is not for WAW but for time missed with d8. It feels like something has been taken away from me; and it WAW has walked away resulting in a temporary parenting plan that reduces time with d8 dramatically as compared to the last 8 years. Alas, like is not always what we expect. I am trying to be positive and focus on today and be the best Dad and human I can be.

Keep on focusing on being a great dad poschan! You need to be there for your D8 now more than ever. Interested to hear how the other meetups go. Been debating doing some of these myself, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

P-

We didn't sign up to be part time parents and not see our daughters part time either. It is not fun and is a downer.

Picked D7 up from camp today after not seeing for a few days and it was like she was away for a month. We hugged and realized it was only 3 days...ugh

I am starting to realize that the kids know best sometimes and gravitate towards the light of positiveness and realize secretly who is hurting. My D7 asked me if mommy made me leave the other week and I had to bite my tongue

All you can do is make sure the precious time you do spend is the best time. I have become a much better father over the last 12 months becuz of this sitch and if there is one positive from this ordeal, that is it. I hope your sadness for the missed time flips into having memories you can never replace.

thanks Rich. I went and surprised d8 today at school for lunch. she was excited to see me as we hadn't seen each other since Wednesday am. It was nice to sit with her and her classmates. a bit of sadness hit me as I left though and know its just going to take time for this adjustment.

Thanks lt for the words of support...GAL was good last night; another mindfulness class. the instructor wasn't feeling well so the class was cut short but it was still fulfilling and the people are nice and outgoing.
planning to do some GAL just for me this afternoon and play some golf with a friend.
no verbal communication with WAW except for occasional texts re logistics and $.
Lately, I've caught my self cussing her out and then remind myself that is not the place I want to be and refocus to a more positive mindset. I think the mindfulness practice is paying off and the instructor has said its important to practice a little bit every day even if its just for 5 min.
I'll get d8 tomorrow and sunday so looking forward to my time with her...
hope everyone has a good weekend

WAW wanted to know if I had changes to the MDA and PP. I told her I did and was working on it. She called and wanted to know details and I told her she would get them when they were complete. ...She tried to pull me into an argument by ad hominem attack saying "typical poschan always being difficult"
it almost worked as I felt some anger but was able to keep cool and not get lured in.
she said she had not hired a L but the papers say "Lawyer Name" attorney for Wife...I asked how she could say that when the papers said otherwise and she said "I swear on our daughters.." at which point I cut her off and told her I didn't want to hear that...
I reaffirmed that I still didn't want D but I would get the papers to her asap. I also told her that I prayed for her (I did earlier) that her heart would soften and she would want to be a family again. No reply and none expected.

WAW called this am to say that d8 was having sep anxiety when she dropped her off at school. we talked about it a bit and WAW said she wanted to do whatever is best for d8. I told her I wanted to say something but said nevermind and WAW nagged me to tell her what I wanted to say. I told her that I thought the best thing would d8 to have 2 strong parents who together overcome and become ever stronger in the R...
WAW said that d8 told her that WAW had planned this...at which point WAW said "no 8 yr old would come up with that" implying that it came from me. It didn't. I have told d8 that I still have hopes that we will be a family again but maybe I should just keep that to myself. It seems that d8 is struggling more with the situation than at first.
I also told WAW that I am willing to do anything so that d8 doesn't have to grow up in 2 separate households and WAW said that you can't force someone to do something. I want to try whatever it takes so there are no regrets.
WAW brother came to visit last night and we had a long talk and he backed me up and reinforced WAW issues.

Hi poschan!

I apologize for my missing in action here with you of late.
I have been on a side detour and fighting some good fights of my own.
I have been watching your story unfold from a distance, but you have been in good hands.

That being said I read this and felt the need to swing by.

Quote:

WAW called this am to say that d8 was having sep anxiety when she dropped her off at school. we talked about it a bit and WAW said she wanted to do whatever is best for d8. I told her I wanted to say something but said nevermind and WAW nagged me to tell her what I wanted to say. I told her that I thought the best thing would d8 to have 2 strong parents who together overcome and become ever stronger in the R...

You are gonna want to stop this going forward.
Do not use your d8 as a bargaining chip so to speak to urge your WAW to come back and work on the MR with you.
So many LBS get stuck on this and it really can be more detrimental to both the opportunity to reconcile as well as to the relationship with the kids.
Maybe it's the very awesome L that I have, or my intense studying of DR and other material for our situations, but my point is that parenting and the MR must be kept separate.
In a good situation they are intertwined for sure. But they should never become attached to each other as a packaged deal.
I chose my L for this reason. He sold me on his goal and focus on the value of understanding that while a MR can be dissolved as it relates to the law. Being a parent has nothing to do with that.
He was a child of a divorce and he shares it that although his parents could not be H and W, they still showed a united front and were awesome parents.
This is a testament to me that kids will turn out just fine in the future if we stay focused on parenting, and better yet, focus on co parenting regardless of the MR.

IMHO, many of the LBH (myself included) tend to think that "taking care" of the family unit was the same as having a great MR. This is what lead many of us to an unhealthy detachment from our MR and thusly our current situations.

We would go to work, come home and relax, take care of the kids a bit, do a few chores and even plan family vacations. But we neglected to see and keep up with the emotional needs and desires of the one we claim to love.

I remember clear as day many times that as I was doing something with my daughters that my wife would so appreciate it and know that I loved her. Deep down I knew there was a disconnect with her, I just could not put my finger on it. So i threw myself more into the kids.
As my WAW raged out and threw a tantrum, it came out that she wanted to leave so many years ago. I asked her why she did not.
Her response is where my point that I am making to you was nailed into my mind.

The response was......................
"Because I did not want to hurt the relationship between you and our daughters."

My MR was on life support and maybe even dead many years ago. I knew it, but I could not revive it, so I tried to convince myself that taking care of my kids would keep us together.
It did not.

But my kids will get the best parenting ever from me and in time I believe that my STBX will come around and we can co parent well.

Seek out info about healthy co parenting. There is much out there and it will help you focus in the right place.

But please, remember to keep parenting and MR very separate.
You will benefit.
Your D8 will greatly benefit.

Quote:

SH: thanks for the info on the thought process. Are you saying that we should try and substitute a positive statement for the negative when the negative thoughts occur? Can you provide some specific examples that you think have helped with solving the anxiety issues?

I realized I did not swing back to respond to you on this.

I am saying that our brain is very complex yet it likes the simple.
We have created words to describe things.
I have learned that feelings and emotions are not one and the same.
Feelings is the brains way of protecting us.
Emotions are the labels we give the feelings.
Check out this Ted Talk as it explains the "feeling" and how it confuses us as we label it poorly.
F the fear, it's not real anyway! | Deri Llewellyn-Davies
An example that Comes to mind that I worked on with d18 was just before she was going to a new social setting.
She was starting to feel unsettled.
Her words to me were, "I am feeling anxious and worried, because I won't know anybody and that makes me uncomfortable."
She expressed that it was a physical feeling.

I asked her if the feeling would go away if she were to say, "I am excited ad anxious to meet some new people because then I will have some new friends that I can get to know and hang out with."

She agreed to try it and within the hour she told me that she still had the physical feeling, but now that it was labeled with something that she looked forward to, she was able to concentrate on other things.

Long story short, she has enjoyed this new social setting immensely and is thriving in it.

Our brain believes what we tell it.
I know it seems a bit voodoo and magic like, but trust me.
The science, the stories and the experiences that I am currently having all back it up IMHO.

You can do it my friend.
�Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.� - Napoleon Hill

Thank you for the feedback SH, I do appreciate your input. I have caught up on your situation and hope you can put those demons to rest. You are such a great contributor and supporter to others on this board; maybe its time to focus more of your strategies on you if you haven't been. I pray for you SH and for others on these boards.
I will check out the "F the fear, it's not real anyway! | Deri Llewellyn-Davies"
By the way, WAW said that I had been disconnected since receiving the divorce papers 3 weeks ago. In my head, I was like "uh, of course"
I had to remind WAW that there has been little to no verbal communication since she moved out and nothing lately has changed.
Waiting to receive changes from L and will be sending back to WAW.

How is poschan an doing?

What did you get from the Ted talk?

What is new in your neck of the woods?

Hey SH! been trying to stay busy with GAL. I started mountain biking again on singletrack and have been trying to do about once a week. Also been going for a lunch jog at a nearby park with the dog but it has almost been too hot. When d8 is with me we have been going to the local dog park a lot. she loves it and says she wants to rescue animals...
the thing that struck me the most about the ted talk was "regret". not looking back and regretting anything that you value. I think that is one reason why I have been trying to do everything possible within my power to not D so that I can look back and know I tried everything...One regret I have is not sharing true love with someone who respects and values me the same way as I do them. I try to give d8 every last ounce of love that I can though.
Lately, I have had a couple of friends tell me I sound a whole lot better than a few months ago. I still have my down days and mostly when I miss d8 when she is not with me. I don't really miss WAW. I was looking at some old pictures of WAW with d8 and couldn't believe the difference. A few of the pictures of WAW, d8 stated were "creepy"! (and those were wedding pics!). We also were looking through d8s baby pics which was great.
Putting together my response to the MDA and PP...bracing for some anger from WAW when she gets it
how are things with you SH?

WAW has been out of town this weekend so I have had d8 since Friday. For some reason, my mind has been thinking a lot about WAW and who she is with. Not something I want to keep doing but my mind just seems to keep making assumptions as to what she is doing and with who...
on a brighter note, d8 and I have a great couple of days. Be the best dad I can be. Lots of love and no regrets

I just do not understand why LBH's feel they must reaffirm how they don't want a D.......and especially right after the WW has lied, or shown some other form of disrespect. It's not like she is scared to death you've changed you mind and now want a D! Why must you always jump in there to assure her that although she is rotten as a bad potato, you are going to hang on tight to keep the M? That's just not attractive to a WW.

She should feel concerned that she has treated you so badly that now she's going to lose you. But no........b/c you are always reminding her that she still has you.

Quote:

I had to remind WAW that there has been little to no verbal communication since she moved out and nothing lately has changed.

Look, instead of "reminding"her, as if she has amnesia........why not have a nonchalant attitude with her? When she gives these types of loaded statements, that you know perfectly well are bait........just say, "S'pose so". Or something that would sound as equally unexciting.....or that you could care less that she thinks you've acted a bit disconnected!

P-

Got to agree with Sandi2. I know you are doing/thinking what is best for your d8 and sadly I have had some same thoughts.

"Man...i would suck it up so my d7 could have the family she deserves". NOOOO!!!

I can't do it anymore. Take the attitude that you deserve better and should never be treated this way again. By her or any other

I keep my texts and answers now to short, non descript info unless it is logistics. Separation anxiety is something you will need to reassure your D8 that you and your STBX are always there and not to worry. It sounds like you are making all the efforts to keep her safe/happy

My STBX is trying to be "buddies"...I don't want another buddy. I will be friends with her in the future on my terms. Do the same...distance yourself and fight those thoughts. You deserve better

Originally Posted By: sandi2

I just do not understand why LBH's feel they must reaffirm how they don't want a D.......and especially right after the WW has lied, or shown some other form of disrespect. It's not like she is scared to death you've changed you mind and now want a D! Why must you always jump in there to assure her that although she is rotten as a bad potato, you are going to hang on tight to keep the M? That's just not attractive to a WW.

She should feel concerned that she has treated you so badly that now she's going to lose you. But no........b/c you are always reminding her that she still has you.

Quote:

I had to remind WAW that there has been little to no verbal communication since she moved out and nothing lately has changed.

Look, instead of "reminding"her, as if she has amnesia........why not have a nonchalant attitude with her? When she gives these types of loaded statements, that you know perfectly well are bait........just say, "S'pose so". Or something that would sound as equally unexciting.....or that you could care less that she thinks you've acted a bit disconnected!

poschan, sandi2 is providing gold for you at no charge.
You need to take it and cash in.
You are gonna want to read this a dozen times and maybe even print it.

Brace yourself my friend.
A barrage of 2x4's are coming next.

It is time for you to study what you need to do.
Practice what you study.
Man up and start looking the part of the confident, attractive, strong man that his W or any other woman would want.

This was your first post in May, you said that the BD was in February.
Read it.
Read the entire thing.
Then tell me if it looks and sounds just like your last couple of posts.

Quote:

I found out in February that my W was looking for a place to move. We have a D7. M for 12 years; T 14 years. At first I did all the wrong things (pursued, pleaded, etc.) until I came across this forum and DB and DR books. I still fall into the same patterns attempting to save our M. I absolutely fear devastating D7 and losing daily contact with her. I lost 20lbs due to the stress and anxiety. I have had 2 sessions with a DB coach. We are currently in the same house (separate BRs) with very little communication. No D papers filed yet but W has begun a marriage dissolution agreement and we have discussed a parenting plan (she has agreed to even time with D7). She wants to D without L. We still do family activities together and I am wondering if I should stop that for now...
Last night, W said she found a house to rent and was going to put down a deposit. Unfortunately, I fell into some of the same behaviors in attempts to get her to reconsider our M. I am having a hard time focusing on me and doing what is best for me and D7. This has been a wake up call for me to work on myself whether we are able to R or not. I've been trying to GAL. I work from home so this has been difficult as I am usually the one who is home to care for D7 during the week. During the past 2 weeks I have been out when W expected me home and did not return her calls. I have also started dressing better in the AM even though I work from home. She said something is up and said I was lying that I wasn't going anywhere all dressed up. I told her that I was going to the store (which I was) and was not lying even got my bible prove (wrong again I know). She then said this is why we will never work. She started a new job about 2 years ago which is very social and this is when I feel things started to deteriorate. Lack of communication seems to me to be the biggest issue but it seems too late as she has told me she "is not in love with me anymore or attracted to me and how does someone get that back?" I am an attractive, professional man. Not sure if she is having an EA but have had suspicions. Not that it would matter re: a D anyway and would only hurt me more if I found out she was. Sorry for the all over the place dialogue and I look forward to any support/insight.

Now read my first post to you.
I ask that you do this, because our timelines are basically the same.
I shared the advice, because it was provided to me and saved me from a dark time.
So dark I dare not share details other than what you will find in my story.

Quote:

Poschan,

I am sorry you are in this situation and I know first hand the shock of it all. My straight forward advice is to review and study the homework from cadet, review and study DR and DB.
The most important thing to remember is that you must make the changes for yourself. Bar none this is the most important thing to do. It is counter intuitive. You will struggle and even make mistakes, but you must stick to it and change for you.
Focus also on being the best father on the planet for d7. The time with her will provide strength and moments of well needed joy. You will need that energy to get through the emotional and mental roller coaster. D7 will look to you and will know your love as you do this.

Post regularly here as there is much good advice, caring people going through what you are, and sincere genuine support.

It will be challenging but hang in there and you will come out better for it on the other side.

Now we are here.
You appear to be stuck in the same place.
Basically begging and whimpering about what your W has chosen to do.
I understand there is a process and a normal cycle with the basic stages.
I know that the time it takes each person will vary.
But
Can I share a little secret with you?

You control the time that it will take to push through this.
You control it with the decisions that you make.
You control it with the effort that you put into it.
You control it with the thoughts that you allow to govern your mind
You control You.

So I ask you......
Have you followed the advice that I gave you the first day you came here for support?
Have you studies DB/DR, cadets material?

What are you reading about to calm your mind?
To understand the situation that you are in?
To identify the healthy emotional behaviors that you must practice and make a habit from?
Are you visiting an IC?
Are you meditating?
Are you taking part of different social circles?
Have you taken up some hobbies or activities that engage your mind?
Physical excersise?
Set up personal plans that you will start pursuing for you and your future?
Are you seeking guidance in this community.....and then following it?

I do not mean to sound harsh and I definitely am not judging....but I see some that fall into the trap of letting stages of this process go on too long......it is now their habit and may soon simply be who they are in their being......That surely not a reason that anyone comes in here looking for now is it?

Please hear me and the others that are sharing advice that you desperately need to put into practice.
Your future self will thank you.
Your future self will thank you sooner if you get on the ball now and get to work.

Are you in?
Can you do this?
Will you do it?
It is all in what you think....

�The man who thinks he can and the man who thinks he can't are both right.�-Confucius

I pray for you and your family.
I pray that you will understand the words that I share with you and use them to fire up the strength that lies within you to stand up and be the strong attractive man only a fool would leave.

Thanks Sandi and Rich for the 2x4 and feedback. I guess part of the problem is being too nice and helpful. I guess I am still in the mode of doing everything in my power not to get D. I know in my heart that she does not feel the same so I need to accept reality and move on with it. I need to get my b_lls back...
Feeling under the weather these past few days after a great full weekend with d8. Not sure why I feel so lethargic and out of energy.

Rich - thanks for the reminder and encouragement.

SH - I need some time to digest before I post back...

quick update:
yesterday I called to talk with d8 and WAW had me on speaker (her cell phone) and kept interjecting...so I asked d8 to call me when she got home before bed. WAW confronted me twice, once yesterday and today, about me cutting her off. I told her I was sorry she felt that way. Today we had a parent teacher conference for d8 and she confronted me again about it. after the conference, I told WAW to have a nice day as I went to the bathroom before leaving. When I got outside she was waiting for me with hands on hips saying "you cant even walk out with me?!". I told her I had to go to the bathroom and didn't want to argue with her, told her again to have a nice day and walked to my car.
I can hardly sit in the same room with her.
On a positive note, I found a new counselor and had a great session yesterday. She is helping with diet and exercise too which is great. Helping me to cut the ties that are hold me back and down. have d8 the next 3 days so looking forward to that.

Quote:

SH - I need some time to digest before I post back...

Take your time.
That is the one thing that cadet shares with all of us when we arrive.
We have the gift of time....

Quote:

yesterday I called to talk with d8 and WAW had me on speaker (her cell phone) and kept interjecting...so I asked d8 to call me when she got home before bed. WAW confronted me twice, once yesterday and today, about me cutting her off. I told her I was sorry she felt that way. Today we had a parent teacher conference for d8 and she confronted me again about it. after the conference, I told WAW to have a nice day as I went to the bathroom before leaving. When I got outside she was waiting for me with hands on hips saying "you cant even walk out with me?!". I told her I had to go to the bathroom and didn't want to argue with her, told her again to have a nice day and walked to my car.
I can hardly sit in the same room with her.

I can relate to this.....
You sound to have handled it as best as could be hoped for.

Quote:

On a positive note, I found a new counselor and had a great session yesterday. She is helping with diet and exercise too which is great. Helping me to cut the ties that are hold me back and down. have d8 the next 3 days so looking forward to that.

This is good to hear. A good IC can do wonders. Congrats.
I love the 3 day stretch with my little angel.
It should do you well.
Enjoy the time my friend.

Took my IC advise and worked out yesterday for 2+ hours- the advise is to sweat at least 20 min per day and every other day based on schedule (I guess I am making up). Did another hour sweat today. I've noticed that its my emotional body that it tired. Physically I feel great except for this lingering head cold. The IC also wants me to start eating a more alkaline diet (lots of greens) and eliminate caffeine. Also wants me to Epson salt soak twice a day for magnesium. did first soak this am.
Got a text from d8 today via WAW phone asking if I would bring out dog and meet them at the dog park. I said yes even though I planned to work today and go over the latest draft of D documents (ugh).
When I got to park, d8 came up and gave a tremendous hug an WAW was polite. 2 other divorced moms and their kids showed up to meet d8 and WAW so it was awkward. After d8 and her friends hugged and petted the dog the went off to play. I decided to leave as it didn't feel right being there with WAW and her new friends. I said good bye politely and walked off. d8 and friends came and said goodbye. AS I got to my car d8 wanted me to come over again and I did for another hug and goodbye.
I feel now somewhat guilty like I should have stayed longer but just didn't feel right. WAW hardly said a word to me anyway and was conversing with her friends. In last session, my IC is trying to help me with some of the anxiety by picturing attachments to WAW and cutting and discarding them. A text I got from WAW last week about finances brought on a severe anxiety attack of hot skin and messed up stomach. I am starting to think it may be best just to get the D over so I can move on and not have to worry about all the D issues anymore. Kind of all over the place today; thanks for any feedback.

"advice"

poschan,

Swing by BluWaves's thread.
We are discussing the difference between emotions and feelings.
I have been studying and learning about this since my dark days go chaos with the uncontrollable emotions that led to feelings and actions that I look back on and say WTF!??!!?

Anyway, I commend you for working with the IC.
Interesting approach with the focus on physical exercise and diet.
What kind of IC are you seeing. What does your IC specialize in?

And as for advice of your experience with the WAW and D8.....
Don't dwell on it.
You did what you were comfortable with.
There is no right or wrong answer for how you handled it.
But the right answer for now is not to dwell on it, ask what you should have done, or feel guilty for leaving or staying.
None of that benefits your mental and emotional psyche right now.

Another point that was made tome and now I understand.
Getting the D done does not change your situation.....
So if you are thinking to do it in hopes that it will, I caution you to take some big steps backwards.......
You will not benefit from it for the reasons that you may think emotionally.

Google what you should know before deciding to initiate a D.
Eery list I read, states, do not do it from an emotional state.......

Have you looked into meditation by chance?
Lets get anxiety and other emotional states under control before you make any major decisions.

SH - thanks for the input
I have been meditating daily after joining a mindfulness meetup group that I try to attend every other week due to parenting schedule.
Regarding initiating a D; WAW has sent me drafts of the D docs including MDA and PP and I had to hire a L to review and revise. I did my review yesterday and waiting to discuss with L. Once we send the revisions to WAW and she is satisfied, it will be on her to file for the D. I was more referring to the extra added stress and time involved with the documents and would like to get it behind me. This is God's plan for me and I am surrendering (trying to) and accepting my situation unconditionally.
The new IC is Susan Davis - New Human Resolution
some of her techniques involve - Past Life Resolution is an eclectic coaching technique which encourages deep insights into patterns of behavior and emotional reactions resulting from pre-birth, birth, and post-birth events and memories. It provides a powerful tool for psychic integration.
Today was my first pre-work workout with 20 minutes of sweating 30 total on elliptical. I've started the Epsom salt foot soak too supposed to keep doing for 3 weeks.
I will head over to BluWave thread and check out the discussion.

SH -
What are you reading about to calm your mind?
--Right now A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and the Bible
To understand the situation that you are in?
--Mostly these boards - any other suggestions?
To identify the healthy emotional behaviors that you must practice and make a habit from?
--mostly these boards and A New Earth is also very enlightening in this respect - any other suggestions?
Are you visiting an IC?
--Yes
Are you meditating?
--Yes
Are you taking part of different social circles?
--Need to venture out more for sure; I am somewhat of an introvert so this would be a good 180
Have you taken up some hobbies or activities that engage your mind?
--I try and kayak, walk/run, mountain bike when I can; working on making a better schedule. Any other suggestions?

Set up personal plans that you will start pursuing for you and your future?
--On my to do list
Are you seeking guidance in this community.....and then following it?
--I am and I appreciated everyone's input and I pray that we all will come out on the other side enlightened and fulfilled. Learning more about just Being and being present in the moment; stopping from revisiting the past and pondering the future

poschan,

I apologize that I did not catch your replies until now.

Your list indicates that you are on the right path.
Keep at it.
Perseverance is the key here.
Stay disciplined and engaged with it.

i seek to new things as certain things that worked for me may not still or if I try something and it does not work at all.
Basically the process as in DB.
Pick my goal
Pick my actions
Monitor
Adjust and repeat until I accomplish what is needed.

I am going to step back a bit, but if I can be of assistance holler at me over on my thread and I will check in.

You are doing well.
Keep at it.

Staying busy with work and trying to GAL. Had some friends from college in last weekend - it was nice to reminisce and have their love and empathy. Been doing a lot with d8 when she is with me.
d8 stated last night that WAW "broke out hearts". Sad to hear that from her but I didn't reply. She will figure it out on her own in time. d8 has been having anxiety issues when dropping off at school and not sure how to deal with it. I just try and encourage here and support her as best I can.
I have been working on a better diet and daily exercise which seems to be helping. My new IC has been great and I look forward to our sessions.
Peace to all.

It is good to hear you in a more calm place.

I encourage that you seek professional assistance for d's anxiety...
It is not a good habit for one so young to get trapped by...

I encourage you to venture into the community here to meet new dbers...
I think more visitors to your story can shed more feedback and support for you...
Just my 2c...

It is good to hear from you my friend.

Thanks SH. WAW called this morning crying that d8 was behaving badly towards her. I told WAW that we need to be gentle and have compassion and empathy towards her as we don't know what she is going through. d8 told WAW that she wants to live with me. d8 has had some of the same behaviors with me too but I try not to react to it and instead approach it with love. WAW labels her this or that and is unable to show empathy - this is a big reason for the R fail. WAW was complaining that d8 wont listen to her and that she disrespects her. WAW doesn't realize that many of these behaviors were learned from WAW herself. It makes me sad that d8 is not only dealing with all of this new reality but also still has to deal with WAW craziness.