I’m going to take a page from some other members and post a quick, summarized update of my situation and brief history…
We got married almost 2 years ago, and even before then W and I had a rocky R. About 2 years into our dating, she started feeling depressed, and after about 2 months of hard times, she decided to “break it off,” and she was moving back home with her parents. She would still spend time with me, and we’d still have sex, and one night when she stayed over I snooped and found FB messages to OM that had been ongoing for several weeks (while we were still together). I confronted, she lied, and the break up was final after that. I only tell this part of my story because it was left out before, and it plays a role in my mention of “repeating of old patterns” from my WW. She was raised by bi-polar, unmedicated mother whom my coach says she “grew up under her wings”, which had led her to carry many childhood issues into our adult relationship.
I somehow was able to “DB” without knowing about DB at the time, I wasn’t doing it “properly” and was really just “portraying” someone who was “making himself awesome”, and about 6 weeks later we got back together. I bought a house, which to her, was a sign that I was in it for the long haul, she always feared she was holding me back from moving away and traveling. The 3 years leading up to the M were up and down, it was busy with wedding planning, home remodeling, work projects, etc. We were set on “once we’re married, things will be wonderful.”
My W is a very ‘difficult’ person, and there isn’t any one of her friends or family that would disagree with that statement. On our wedding day, we had a huge blowout towards the end, which mentally set the foundation for what’s to come, but was ignored. The end of the night consisted of me and my new Brother-in-law’s W, sitting alone outside, and she was saying “you have no idea what you’ve got yourself into.”, I remember it like it was last night. I guess you could call me blind, but I was in love.
Fast forward a year, we went on a 1-yr anniversary trip, and things were pretty good in our MR, but when we came back home, my W was ‘let go’ from her work, went on unemployment, was devastation, betrayed, and kicked off a severe depression. She felt disconnected from me, unequal, undervalued, unimportant, etc. She took the role of a SAHM, but we have no kids… she was “insignificant”.
After about 6 months of MR problems, communication breakdown, increased drinking from her, and emotional isolation, she’d built up a wall, hardened her heart, and closed off from me. I’ll say this started around early March 2016, and I knew things were much worse that I’d thought. Around 3/27 an EA started with OM at her new place of work, and seemed to “end” around 4/8 (texts stopped) this wasn’t discovered until late April. Around 4/18 she forced separation and co-parenting of home until we started MC. We went to MC on 5/5 and she continued forced separation, and about a week later she dropped the BD. Once that happened, I told her I respect her decision, and if that’s what we’re doing, I’m no longer packing bags and I’m staying at the house from here on out. She was furious, and moved out to IL’s. W filed for D on 6/7/16. 2 weeks before our 2-yr anniv.
Once the BD hit, I discovered DR/DB, read the book, and realized all the things I’d been doing wrong. It really resonated quickly. I got DB coaching, and coaching from an outside resource that helped tremendously. I’ve been working on GAL, 180s, and consistency. There is no MR talk at the moment, though she continues to bring up “we need to talk about this”. I feel she’s pulled the trigger out of pressure/trapped, and is very conflicted on what she wants. She continues to say “we have 60 days to repair our marriage”, and I’ve continued to tell her I don’t wish to talk about MR right now, and I’m only taking some time to process all this and work on myself. She hasn’t forced any talk, and whenever she’s “stated” things, I just validate and empathize, and never ask extra questions or talk about myself.
I’m still struggling emotionally, but I’m using advice from here to “imagine she’s already dead” and mourn the loss of my W, and work on myself. I’m doing that. If W comes back around to “work on the MR”, I will be very skeptical because of our history and her pattern of fleeing when things get rough. Since the D was filed, it’s been 5 days, and I’ve hardly spoken to her, I’ve went dark, haven’t responded to texts/calls, or anything of that nature, and she’s been “stopping by” the house more frequently for random reasons.
I’m trying to implement LRT as best I can, and could probably use some help in this area. I have DB coach setup to go over a full hour of LRT with me, so that should be helpful. This post is already getting much longer than anticipated, but I wanted to give a fresh start summary to any new members, as well as a refresher for myself, on where I’m at in the process… I’ll follow up shortly with a current update.
also, I'd like to thank everyone who's been involved with my story and for the great advice, 2x4's, etc to help me through this. (you know who you are)
One of the things currently on my mind, is that I've clearly surpassed the '72 hour waiting period' to respond to the D filing. I've broken most of the emotional responses that would be tied to this response. And I'm not sure how, or when, to move forward with my W when she brings up 'let's talk about us'.
Do you not want to hear what she has to say, or are you just avoiding getting sucked into more drama?
LiM said he'd stop by, one question I had when I caught up on his thread was the mention of 1-hr discussions you had weekly. You mentioned this at the beginning, and then I didn't see anything of it after March or so. Did you continue these talks? I know each sitch is different, and I don't plan on initiating any MR talk at the moment, but curious if when she asks me about "when are we going to talk about us?" if I should make myself more available for her to talk and open up, or if I should remain as detached as possible until she just started talking about it herself, as opposed to 'asking questions' around it.
Do you not want to hear what she has to say, or are you just avoiding getting sucked into more drama?
Honestly, a little bit of both. At first, I just didn't want to because there was too much emotion involved with the D filing (even though I knew it was coming). Now, I feel like she only wants to "talk about us" for the wrong reasons. That she jumped the gun on filing and wants to reassure herself that she's made the right decision and didn't do it out of pressure/threat/trapped. I feel like any MR talk right now, will just lead to her not being able to contain emotions, and continue to bring up problems of the past (my neglect, abandonment, etc), like she has done every time we've "tried to talk" leading up to this point.
I feel like any MR talk right now, will just lead to her not being able to contain emotions, and continue to bring up problems of the past (my neglect, abandonment, etc), like she has done every time we've "tried to talk" leading up to this point.
I know this is 'projecting', 'mind-reading', etc, but since she's approaching in the form of a question, I have just thought I would continue to work on me, focus on things not involving WW, and if she truly 'wants to talk', she won't ask questions around it, but just start talking, in which case, I would gladly participate in the conversation.
I don't mean to keep posting on same topic, sandi, but another reason (and maybe this is internal conflict), but with the D filed, I'm full blown LRT for now. Is it up to me to decide if MR talk is a good idea during the LRT process? I'm thinking that it would be best for me, and any hopes of MR reconciliation, to continue to put all MR on hold, even if she is pushing for MR/Div discussion. I feel she's still really emotionally attached to everything and would do no good until the closely linked emotions have a chance to die off a little bit, maybe 1-2 more IC sessions for me, and her could do some good before any MR talk... (we're both going weekly).
Do you not want to hear what she has to say, or are you just avoiding getting sucked into more drama?
I took a break from my pre-week prep and revisited this comment... and I think now, I really don't care to hear what she has to say. She's pulled the trigger, and I know why she did it, she's made it clear a couple times now of 'why' she wants the D.
I really don't need to hear anymore than what I already have to focus on what I want to do moving forward. Maybe I'm thinking way out of line here, and it pains me deeply to think that my plan, of focusing on me and letting the MR take care of itself, or dissolve complete, doesn't really need to include conversations on 'whats going on with us' or 'how we got here'. And in thinking that my carelessness is part of what landed us in this place to begin with... makes me think I've jumped on the wrong train... I don't know... Is that detachment, or is it just pure insanity? Maybe both? Maybe just me being me again and failing to produce a 180...
Having trouble sleeping tonight... I spent a lot of the evening cleaning up the house and getting prepared for the week. I don't feel overly sad or anything... Just not one frickin bit tired. Staring at the back of my eyelids for hours, doesn't do me any good as far as "rest" goes...
I've had many of those nights :-( got to the point where I got so tired I'd fall a sleep but waking up at 4am.
Have you tried Melatonin? that usually helps knock me up and is natural.
I've also tried cutting back on coffee during the day.
Have you tried Melatonin? that usually helps knock me up and is natural.
My go to medicine is Bourbon... It usually works well, but puts a ding on my 5AM wakeup time... Then again... So does getting to bed at 3AM.
Hi Betterm,
Sorry you are here and thank you for reading my story. I'm happy to offer any insight that I have if it can help you.
Thank you for the summary you posted at the beginning of this new thread. In reading through some of your previous posts, I felt that something was missing from the story. The A was the part that was missing and now things make more sense.
First, I sense that your W is a very troubled person and has been for a long time. Your M got off to a really rough start. I don't mean to imply that all of the issues in your M are the fault of your W. I'm sure you have your own to work on as well. Dont let that get lost in all of this. Make sure you address your issues as well. Really, that's what DB is about; making YOU a better person.
The 1 hour conversations w my W started a week or two after I kicked her out of the house. They weren't meant to talk about the MR, they were just meant to talk in general. They were meant as a way to start reconnecting. IF they drifted towards R talk, and if it was something that my W brought up, I was fine with that. But I wasn't using to drag up our R issues.
We only had 2 or 3 of these conversations because towards the end of January, my W withdrew from me significantly. She became emotionally distant and would say mean, hurtful things. She didn't appear to want to talk so I didn't press her for it. What happened is that the A had restarted and I didn't know it. I didn't become aware of it again till the middle of March.
That's part of why I have so much anger right now. She crapped all over the forgiveness I gave her and started the A again. In those first couple of conversations, she told me that she was witnessing so many wonderful changes in me and even miracles. And despite that, she ran away from our M again and started the A again.
To me, your wife seems very troubled and conflicted. She's lost her way in life. The first thing you need to realize is that there is nothing you can do to help her and its not your job. She's got to recognize her issues and be willing to address them. Your job right now is to work on you. Detach, 180 and GAL.
You should definitely be in LRT mode. That doesn't mean you should be cold, uncaring or mean towards her. But you must be firm. You must set boundaries and not be a doormat. If/when she is remorseful, it will be obvious. There will be no question in your mind if she is being genuine. Until then, detach and work on you. If/when she becomes remorseful, do NOT rush back into the M. Take your time. Make sure its what you want. Make her work to earn her place at your side. Dont be unreasonable. Do not use what she has done as a weapon to hurt her or make her feel worthless. You can't do that if you truly forgive. But that doesn't mean you have to jump to let her back in at the first sign of remorse.
I wish I had taken it a little slower with my W. She is remorseful. She knows she was in a fog and that she was lying to herself. She sees the damage she has caused in both families. After the A stopped and my wife expressed true remorse, it was about a month before she started sleeping in our house again. It was another month before I fully and completely halted the D. That sounds like I took it slow but I could have taken it slower. We started having sex again just a few days after she expressed remorse and we started spending a LOT of time together in that first month before she moved back in. We started dating; a LOT. All of that is good. I just wished I had taken it a little slower.
An A is devastating to a M. No matter how much you love a person and want to make the M work, its still incredibly painful and will take a long time to get over.
As far as talking with your W, I think that is fine if she wants that. You don't have to shy away from R talk IF she is the one to bring it up. But I certainly would go DEEP at this point. Allow her to express her feelings and validate. If she is lying to herself and to you, if she's not being honest about things, you just need to let it roll off. The fog is thick. Realize she is not "sane" right now. She may be angry with you. She may say hurtful things. Let it go. Focus on you and being the best person you can possible be.
LiM, Thank you so much for taking the time to read through my story. I really appreciate all the outside help I can get, especially from someone in a similar sitch as me, but at a different phase along the process. At the beginning of all this, I tried to have regular "friendly" talks that didn't involve R, but she was too angry at the time and it always ended up as a one-way badgering session of all the bad things I've done to get us here.
You're dead on with your comment of my W being troubled and conflicted. I've had multiple counselors/coaches tell me the same thing, and while I know I have faults that help put our marriage on life support, she's definitely played a huge part in that as well, regardless of her blindness by the fog (family upbringing was bad (manic/bi-polar mother, doormat dad to manic mother, schitzo aunt, autism in multiple family members, etc), physical abuse and chronic cheating in previous long-term boyfriend before me, undealt with issues with social groups in her early adulthood, etc), all of which she admittingly said she should get professional help with, but never did.
I didn't "blow her off" when she came back the house the night she filed D, or the few nights later when she asked if we were ever going to "talk ab out us", because of harshness/cruelty/etc. I did it because, even though I knew D was coming, I was still emotionally struck and powered by feelings/anger and knew the conversation would not go as I'd like. Now it's been 6 days, and while I don't feel like I'm going to initiate any talk (asking her), I think the next time she offers to talk, I'll oblige and just try to keep things as friendly as possible, while shying away from 'serious' R talk as much as possible, at least the first time or two.
You say "she lost her way of life", and another dead-on observation, this all started when she was stabbed in the back by a friend at work, which ultimately led to her being fired her first day back after our 1-yr anniversary trip to the bahamas. This triggered and emotional breakdown, and I admit I was not there for her as I should've been, emotionally, as I was trying to pickup a lot of side work for my consulting business to make finances better for us (she has a horrible 'retail therapy' habit that's been ongoing in MR, and even during dating R leading up to M).
Sorry I didn't mention the EA (don't think there was ever PA, but I quit snooping out of harm for myself). The EA texts/calls stopped after about 10 days, and I think she was the one that broke it off. But then fired back up a few weeks later, and once I confronted EA (this didn't go well for the MR, but was great for ME personally, I was able to drop the weight I'd been carrying around), the calls to OM rose to a new high. OM's LBS does not know of the EA yet, and I don't plan to tell her, until the D is final. Mentally, I've already forgiven her for the EA, and anything else she might've done during this process. I know it was HER choice to do this, but I'm taking responsibility for my actions which created the void for her to find someone else to listen to her.
I am currently GAL, and bettering myself. I'm conflicted on a few 180s, because of conflicting advice. I'd been emotionally absent during the last year of marriage, and the "180" would be to make myself present for her to talk to, but she hasn't wanted to talk until just this week. I was also torn on if I do this 180, she might just see it as "oh, he's just trying to be MR. FIX IT like he always does so we can sweep this under the rug". So I didn't want to show that '180' too quickly as it might look like desperation.
I lost a ton of weight in the last 6 months, down to an all time low since high school (I'm not a big guy), so I've started a workout program (BodyBeast), and changed my diet so I'm getting at a minimum 2600 calories a day. I've already put on 3 lbs and my form is already changing (3 weeks in).
Once again, I thank you for coming over to my thread. Your input is precious to me, and I'll look forward to keeping in touch through your thread and mine.
Hope you have a wonderful day (I know, it's Monday), but still, wish you well!
betterm,
You need to rush over the Keaton thread (a newbie). I did the boxes and tape thing...again. I can't help myself.
You're the DB stud; he needs help.
I am currently GAL, and bettering myself. I'm conflicted on a few 180s, because of conflicting advice. I'd been emotionally absent during the last year of marriage, and the "180" would be to make myself present for her to talk to, but she hasn't wanted to talk until just this week. I was also torn on if I do this 180, she might just see it as "oh, he's just trying to be MR. FIX IT like he always does so we can sweep this under the rug". So I didn't want to show that '180' too quickly as it might look like desperation.
I lost a ton of weight in the last 6 months, down to an all time low since high school (I'm not a big guy), so I've started a workout program (BodyBeast), and changed my diet so I'm getting at a minimum 2600 calories a day. I've already put on 3 lbs and my form is already changing (3 weeks in).
Those will be things you will eventually need to 180 but now is the not the time. She will not appreciate you being emotionally "present" right now. In fact, she doesn't want it. If you try and do it now, it will just make her angry and push her further away.
I am also doing body beast and I really like it. I started in November before BD. I lost 40 pounds since the beginning of the year and really lost more than I should have. Most of it came from not eating. I've put about 6-8 pounds back on and I'm healthier for it.
I've also been running (I hate it!) and I've started doing a new workout app on my phone called Results. Its only 15 minutes but its a lot of core work and I'm seeing results from it.
As you probably saw, my wife is a triathlete and I really didn't participate or support her in that. In fact, I came to resent it because of the time it took away from our family. Now, I spend time every week working out with her. I can't compete on her level but it is something that is good for me and allows me the opportunity to participate in something with her that she finds important.
I also bought her an expensive computerized bike trainer last week since she no longer has access to that kind of equipment since not going to OM's training facility anymore. She REALLY appreciated that.
Those will be things you will eventually need to 180 but now is the not the time.
Thanks for the confirmation. I was thinking this exact thing, and when/if we do have a "talk" or two, I need to keep myself from dominating conversation and just let her talk, express my concern, and validate her.
I am also doing body beast and I really like it. I started in November before BD. I lost 40 pounds since the beginning of the year and really lost more than I should have.
Are you on the TBB online site? we can be workout buddies! haha. I really love the program, I'd done p90x3 and insanity, and I'm really just to the point where I'm done with the cardio, too many people told me I'm too little, so it's time to PACK ON THE MASS BABY! I do ride a bicycle, and run a little bit, but nothing more than 30 minutes at a time or so.
I also bought her an expensive computerized bike trainer. She REALLY appreciated that.
I saw that in your thread. That was an AWESOME gift!
Dude, some of those "Sagi Special" moves... I just rather die! "Drop the Weight"... yes sir! ...for me! haha
...so it's time to PACK ON THE MASS BABY!
First it was biker bars and now it's body building. I hope you're not preparing for a smack-down. That can get you some hard time in the slammer.
Of course Martha Stewart claims that doing time in the big house provides an opportunity for personal growth and enrichment. In addition, it helps with detachment.
Maybe you're onto something...
First it was biker bars and now it's body building. I hope you're not preparing for a smack-down. That can get you some hard time in the slammer.
I'd hardly call the Blue Oyster a 'biker bar'. Just because it walks a woman, and talks like a woman... doesn't mean its... not a toad... or something like that...
I just got off a call with my DB coach, I'm going to do some quick homework, while it's still fresh, and I'll post an update.
I got Keaton in my sight, I'll head over there shortly.
I'd hardly call the Blue Oyster a 'biker bar'.
I read that and I had to put on my finest Scottish accent and say, "whale oil beef hooked." It's where me and my wife's boyfriend go to hang out and dance. What do you mean that you'd hardly call it a biker bar?
Got tied up at work earlier and couldn't get to my homework, or back to the forums... Just finished pumping some iron with hans and frans, "pump YOU up!"
Okay, enough of that. A quick update after talking to my coach today... I told her of all the instances involving me and W over the past two weeks, and told her the D was filed. told her of the back and forth behavior of my W and how she told me she 'doesn't want D", just the day before she filed. Also updated on how after several ignored texts/calls the day of the D filing, she showed up randomly at the house "just to say hi", and then again on Saturday and her actions of just sitting in the driveway watching me do yard work, both times mentioning "are we ever going to talk about us?"...
She said I handled everything perfectly, to a 'T'. She said a lot of what many others have already stated on here, including myself, that she is extremely conflicted about her decision, and it sounds very likely that she's either regretful of it, or possible has become very scared/fearful of my reaction to her filing (going dark). Said a lot of times 'immature' problem solvers will use the D word as a means to force change, and they "expect" the other part to start to chase them, and since I haven't done that, and done exactly the opposite of that, she's possibly thinking "oh no, what have I done..."
This is promising news... however, I now see why 'detachment' is such an important part of this process. Without the ability to detach myself (I'm not fully detached, but the progress in the last week or two has been exponential), from her wants/needs/feelings/etc, I wouldn't have been able to respond the way I have, and the unfortunate (and fortunate?) thing about this, is now I need to do some long hard thinking about my future, and my goals with my future R, and whether or not they should involve her at all. I told coach how this entire process has taken me from one end of the spectrum to the other, starting with desperation, sadness, despair, moving into grief, confusion, apathy, and then to anger, betrayal and now in a place where I'm really feeling like I have control of myself (and my interactions with W) again.
We talked about how during my discovery process, all the negative patterns of my W and how she's (today) saying she is not willing to work on her problems in the MR, she doesn't have the energy. We talked about her past R's (abuse, cheated on), her family (mental disorders), and how she has a lot of work to do even if we do someday decide to "work on us". She said my W is an escape artist...will do anything to take the easy way out... none of this is "news" to me, but this is all very discerning at the moment.
Since my W is the one wanting to start "talks", she said if my emotions are controlled, I should just ask her, "what would you like to talk to me about?" and if she puts it back on me, just stick with my Mantra of I don't believe divorce...blahblah. but instead to just let her know that HER filing for D, has provided all I need to hear for me to move on with my plan of just focusing on me, it is a clear, formal, process that says "I no longer want you in my life", and if she wants to "talk", then she needs to be the one doing the "talking", and I'd have to agree with this almost entirely. Of course, during these talks, validate, ask questions of clarity, and empathize, but I'm not in the position where I have to make any decisions, or talk about anything I don't feel comfortable talking about.
This is her D, and my focus is just to continue to make myself a better person, and prepare myself for a better life, whether it be alone, with her, or with someone else in a future relationship (she said this is also a good point to make in conversation - or in a letter)... SHE needs to be the one that understands the "big picture" of what she has done by filing for D. I should not be the that has to explain anything to her, it's all on her now to figure this out for her own, and whatever she decides to act upon (her past patterns of taking the easy escape route, or to mature as an adult and figure out on her own how to handle this situation)... I can't show her what to do, or how to act, to make this better/right/wrong/etc.
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We also went over the LRT in detail, and the LRT Letter... I don't plan on writing the letter anytime soon, and she even said to wait as long as possible, "but you'll know when the time's right" (and timing is everything with the LRT letter). She said I should still not try to 'initiate' any converstaion with W, and to wait until she comes back to me for a talk (in coach's eyes, wife is so conflicted, she will be back to talk soon). And when she comes to talk, just say "I'm ready to hear what you have to say to me."... and just hear her out.
I think I'm ready for this. I'm ready to move on with my life, one way or another, and that's actually undecided at the moment, and will depend on a long series of events throughout the D process, and how my W handles herself. It will be clear whether she wants to continue living as the person she's been in the past, or truly want to make the leap into a better person for the future.
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Having said that... On my way home from work, Guess who texts.... "Hey, How are you?" ... silence. 3 hours ago, I never responded. I'm not torn on what to do, I've just reached a place where I really don't care what her reaction is anymore to me. Coach did tell me to keep things friendly though, but she also said, "going dark" is a great technique for me in this time. honestly, I like being dark and mysterious, something I plan to keep with me regardless of what happens. Who doesn't like a little mystery in their life, right? haha.
Anyways. This post is getting long. I got sh1t to do, I'll be back later.
betterm,
Great post! You're helping a lot of by providing so many details as well as the thought process with regard to DB.
It sounds like you had a very good session with the DB coach. I always felt much better after my sessions with a coach.
I "went dark" by default; after my wife moved out I just didn't feel like interacting with her because I'd been through so much. I needed a break from drama.
Thanks again for the wonderful post! You've been an awesome forum member.
Thanks doodler. I know the long posts can discourage people from reading it all, but I think the "details" are very important for newcomers, or people just struggling on what they need to do, or understand the process or DB.
Just got back from grocery, gonna grill some kebabs and drink a few cold ones out back. Never responded to W text. I have an IC session on Wed, as well as appt with L... I'm just gonna hold off any talk with W until I speak to both of them.
Just an FYI, I did respond to W finally... A brief, I'm doing good, thanks! Was all I said. She replied, immediately, pretty much as soon as I hit send, got reply back... "Good!"
I was feeling a little bad for not returning the question back to her, but afterthought, really I don't care how she's doing right now. She filed the D, she knew the consequences.
Just an FYI, I did respond to W finally... A brief, I'm doing good, thanks! Was all I said. She replied, immediately, pretty much as soon as I hit send, got reply back... "Good!"
I was feeling a little bad for not returning the question back to her, but afterthought, really I don't care how she's doing right now. She filed the D, she knew the consequences.
So, maybe I scared people away with my outrageously long post. haha. oh well.
I'm really busy this morning with meetings and training, but
I have some very good information/stories to share with you all later today... not regarding my own sitch, just something that I feel will resonate really well with the community here.
betterm,
I don't think it was the long post that's keeping people away. I think it's your disparaging remarks about The Blue Oyster. You had me in tears. Not a real biker bar -- sheesh! You're so mean!
I'm kind of embarrassed I've never made the connection before, but while reading an article, I stumbled onto:
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A doctor can strike a certain place on our knee-cap, and our leg jerks up into the air when that happens. This is an uncontrollable reactive burst and is referred to as a "knee-jerk reaction." I've said it a thousand times, and for some reason, never made the connection.
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Trust me, people, this is relevant!
You're doing good betterm. Keep it up. DB'ing is coming to you naturally.
Thanks, fellas. I'm cutting the cell phone bill over to her name and billing responsibilities today... I haven't snooped in a while, and don't plan on doing so at all anymore. "stopping snooping", and not having any idea where my W is, or who she has been talking to, is so much easier on the mind than constantly checking. It used to be the other way around, I "needed" to know her actions... Now, I really don't give a rip... I'm not the judge of her anymore.
Some random thoughts....
It's strange how the "fear" changes as your move through the process... I started off fearing that detachment would allow her space she needs to realize she doesn't want me around, and she'd reassure her concerns that she'd be better off without me. And I'd lose any chance I thought I had with reconciling with my W.
Now, after a ridiculously speedy detachment period (thanks to my coaches, counselors, and community - for showing me how blind I've been of R actions and responses), I don't know, or care, if she wants me back at all, but the 'fear'... if that's what you want to call it, is whether or not I'll ever see the person I once loved so dearly, as someone that even has a place in my future at all.
I still love her and would like to think we could enjoy a future together, but my newfound 'history' of us, her approach and actions throughout our R, has turned the tables and I'm asking myself... wtf was I thinking anyways?
Regardless of the outcome, and as hard as this has been, I am thankful for what has happened. I was becoming stagnant, and I had lost my confidence, leadership, aspirations, and purpose... I honestly feel like what's happening right now, was a necessary event to get my sh1t together... and because of this, not just myself, but everyone around me will benefit from the work in progress.
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I'm actually looking forward to my IC session tomorrow. I dropped the last IC because, well, she svcked. Been waiting months to get in to this one, as she's highly rated in the area, and I'm happy to start with a clean slate, provide a detailed history of where I've been, where I'm at, and where I'd like to go.
Hope everyone's having a good day. Didn't have much time, but thought I'd jump over here and post on my lunch break.
Now, after a ridiculously speedy detachment period (thanks to my coaches, counselors, and community - for showing me how blind I've been of R actions and responses), I don't know, or care, if she wants me back at all, but the 'fear'... if that's what you want to call it, is whether or not I'll ever see the person I once loved so dearly, as someone that even has a place in my future at all.
I still love her and would like to think we could enjoy a future together, but my newfound 'history' of us, her approach and actions throughout our R, has turned the tables and I'm asking myself... wtf was I thinking anyways?
betterm,
I completely understand. The most amazing thing is how quickly the change occurs. Now, when you start reading some of the posts on this forum you'll see your former self and you'll want to gently whack them over the head as hard as you can.
I always enjoy seeing my IC. I go tomorrow morning. I'm going to discus pugilistic tendencies with regard to OM.
Thanks, fellas. I'm cutting the cell phone bill over to her name and billing responsibilities today... I haven't snooped in a while, and don't plan on doing so at all anymore. "stopping snooping", and not having any idea where my W is, or who she has been talking to, is so much easier on the mind than constantly checking. It used to be the other way around, I "needed" to know her actions... Now, I really don't give a rip... I'm not the judge of her anymore.
Here here to no snooping... the last two weeks have overall been great with me "not" knowing what she's up to (until she accidentally told me where she was on Friday). It really does make it easier to move forward!
Some random thoughts....
It's strange how the "fear" changes as your move through the process... I started off fearing that detachment would allow her space she needs to realize she doesn't want me around, and she'd reassure her concerns that she'd be better off without me. And I'd lose any chance I thought I had with reconciling with my W.
Now, after a ridiculously speedy detachment period (thanks to my coaches, counselors, and community - for showing me how blind I've been of R actions and responses), I don't know, or care, if she wants me back at all, but the 'fear'... if that's what you want to call it, is whether or not I'll ever see the person I once loved so dearly, as someone that even has a place in my future at all.
I still love her and would like to think we could enjoy a future together, but my newfound 'history' of us, her approach and actions throughout our R, has turned the tables and I'm asking myself... wtf was I thinking anyways?
Regardless of the outcome, and as hard as this has been, I am thankful for what has happened. I was becoming stagnant, and I had lost my confidence, leadership, aspirations, and purpose... I honestly feel like what's happening right now, was a necessary event to get my sh1t together... and because of this, not just myself, but everyone around me will benefit from the work in progress.
---
I'm actually looking forward to my IC session tomorrow. I dropped the last IC because, well, she svcked. Been waiting months to get in to this one, as she's highly rated in the area, and I'm happy to start with a clean slate, provide a detailed history of where I've been, where I'm at, and where I'd like to go.
Hope everyone's having a good day. Didn't have much time, but thought I'd jump over here and post on my lunch break.
It really is a process - amazed you moved through it so quickly, it's taken me 3+ months (BD was on 3/6) and I'm just starting to get my stuff together, work still has been a bear but home life and time with D has been amazing.
I also look forward to my IC sessions, I've had 3 different ones, this one is more collaborative - probably not the best but helpful to have someone to talk to.
I've come to grips with either outcome, obviously I'm hopeful for R but right now it's seriously in limbo. I reread one of the DR stories this morning and it was helpful - it really is a 6 month if not longer process, nothing is going to get resolved in such a short period of time.
it really is a 6 month if not longer process, nothing is going to get resolved in such a short period of time.
And living in the disposable world of instant gratification we live in, no wonder the D rates are just soaring higher and higher. replace this, replace that, new phones, new cars, new spouses, gimme this, gimme that, meow meow MEOW!
I agree with that betterm
Betterm, your last post made me laugh
Keep up the good work. IC apt for you tomorrow will be a great thing because I can tell by how much you were posting your mind was racing. I get it. Just get it out here and not through texting
Good Job! Keep it up
Regardless of the outcome, and as hard as this has been, I am thankful for what has happened. I was becoming stagnant, and I had lost my confidence, leadership, aspirations, and purpose... I honestly feel like what's happening right now, was a necessary event to get my sh1t together... and because of this, not just myself, but everyone around me will benefit from the work in progress.
That's such a great attitude. I think I'm slowly coming around to this attitude myself. I've made a ton of positive changes in myself, at the very least all of this stuff I'm going through will not be for nothing and I'll be a better person and father.
I mentioned earlier that I wanted to share a story/mindset that resonated really well with me, and I think it can provide benefit to pretty much anyone on the forums... Some of you may have heard this before, but I had not and it was a great learning lesson.
There is a short opening story that goes with the message, so bear with me... and here ya go:
"My Response Is My Responsibility"
During World War II, while the Nazi regime ruled, a Christian Frenchman, who had been harboring Jews was captured. German soldiers brought him before an SS Officer known as “The Torturer”. At that moment, the peace of Christ came upon this Frenchman, who manifested on his face the serenity of the Lord. However, the SS Officer interpreted that tranquility as a snide look and screamed, “Get that smirk off your face!” You see, others who entered his presence stood in paralyzing fear, but on that day… not this Frenchman. This provoked the SS Officer, who shouted “Don’t you know who I am?!” The Frenchman said, “Yes, Sir. I know who you are. You are known as the torturer. You have the power to torture me. You have the power to kill me. But, Sir, you do not have the power to get me to hate you."
This points out a bold belief of... the power of the human spirit to be free within. This Frenchman reveals a wavy truth... That other people cannot control my inner world. They can control me physically. However, they cannot dictate what I think, what I believe, or what I feel. We possess a God given right to rule my own inner responses. No one can make me hate them; no one can force me to have contempt for them; that's a choice for myself. They cannot make that decision for me.
---
To share a letter that was mentioned during the program:
I have been incredibly frustrated in my relationship with my husband, and truth be known - I blamed most of it on him. Not because I think I am a Saint, but because I did believe that if he loved me properly, then everything would be... as it should be.
This woman made her husband Lord of her emotions and happiness. Of course, when we assign that kind of power to others, we make them our Gods. (ah hem, codependency, anyone?) Thus, when we are unhappy, we have only one recourse: Blame and Blaspheme this person who has become our God. Eventually, we are unhappy over how unhappy they have made us. We doubly resent them. We have no choice in this whole sorted affair, but to be depressed, since our response is their responsibility - and our God did not come through for us.
---
One of the most profound truths we can subscribe ourselves to, is that People do not cause us to be the way we are... They reveal the way we are. "My response is my responsibility" Other people's actions are not responsible for our responses, but instead, reveal our responses for who we are. No one is to blame but ourselves. It's human nature to find justification in our actions and to blame others.
The truth is, your response is your responsibility... and my response is my responsibility, but my response is not your responsibility, and vice versa. And these people around us, are not causing us to act the way we are, they are only revealing our choices we make to be the way we are. This does not mean that our WAS's do not have to deal with their issues, they do. But that's a different matter than how we respond to how they are behaving. This doesn't mean we "let them off the hook". We have a responsibility to speak what is true, what is necessary, and to be clear about that, but we do so in a kind, loving, and respectful way. Subscribe to this axiom of "My response is my responsibility, and at the end of the day, your internal freedom is not going to be determined by the misbehavior of others.
---
To close out, I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with, or have read the book "A Man's Search for Meaning"... if you haven't, you should. A few quotes from the book that relate to this message follow:
1. When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
2. Everything can be taken from a man, but one thing: the last of the human freedoms. To choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances. To choose one's own way.
3. Between unloving behavior or disrespectful behavior... in my response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.
I hope you all can resonate with this story/message as much as it did with me. A lot of us are put in these horrible situations, and get the blame placed on us. It should not be our place to defend ourselves from this blame, but to respond genuinely, and use these opportunities to reveal who we really are as a person, and who we are striving to become...
betterm,
I've read much of your story today. It is truly inspiring to me. Especially the part about detachment. I'm getting better at it, though it's difficult with a 3yr old we're trying to get into a new preschool. Yesterday was the first time since she left almost 4 weeks ago that I saw the woman I wanted to be with again. So many times we have spoken or been around each other that I ask myself who is this strange woman?
I'm feeling the changes in myself already. One lucky (I guess?) thing is that GAL for me IS part of the 180s. I was such a stay at home family man for so long, that I never really got out. She's very interested to know where I'm going, and I'm trying to be as vague as possible. I know the things I can improve on, and am working to make myself better every day for me and S.
Your story is very appropriate. I think that's how my WW viewed me, and when I step back and look at myself I don't like who I was either. Passive, not trying to make waves, feeling guilty about everything, trying to be super H. Not me. At all. I don't need to just get me back, I need to take the old me she loved and had a baby with and become even better! Confidence, happiness, contentment, going out, making friends, being forceful (not controlling but forceful), making decisions, taking initiative. That's Me + improvements.
That's a man I think my wife would want to be with, and if she doesn't then that's on her.
Don't know if you've visited my thread, but if you could take a gander I'd appreciate it!
RSG - Thanks for stopping by, and I will definitely head over to your thread and provide some insight, for whatever its worth. As you know, a lot of our sitches are similar in that there are common denominators, but each sitch is also very much different, with different 'personalities' involved, so its up to each of us to make the decisions we make based on who we are, and where we came from and that path we are choosing for our futures. I just got back to work, so I got some catching up to do, but I'll certainly swing by a little later in the day.
Quick update today...
I met, and retained my lawyer this morning, we went over circumstances again, my consequences for purchasing a motorcyce after the D and TRO was served (she doesn't see anything wrong with it, and won't cause any problems, yay!) She gave me the advice/recommendation that I "make her the bad girl" from here on out, something it seems you all have already done as well. I paid the retainer fee with our joint checking account, emailed W's attorney and told him no further communication to me, and to send everything to her from now on.
After my L meeting, I had an appt with my NEW IC... the last one wasn't doing it for me. This one was great, she was everything that I wanted from a new IC, and we talked about expectations, focus, and her role in our future relationship for counseling. She said she's amazed at the amount of work I've already put in, and in our "introductory" conversation of getting to know one another, along with my views on my sitch, she only really had two suggestions for me to consider.
1. Slow Down! She said intellectually, I'm on top of it, but emotionally it's not going to change overnight, and its easy to get overwhelmed.
2. Change my focus from Her, and MR, to ME. When giving background story, she noticed I talked about her and M a lot, she asked me to focus on me more, and then I told her about my DB'ing, and she said, GREAT!.
I also got some homework assignments (miracle questions, and goals)
---
Shortly after my appt, W texted me and said "can we or can we not sit down and talk about this?" I planned on responding a little later, but that didn't happen, as she showed up at the house about 5 minutes later. She came in and said hi, I greeted her back. I told her that I wasn't entirely sure what she wished to talk about, but I've had some time to process things and I'm willing to talk with her. As I shoved a huge bit of lunch in my mouth, she blurts out in an aggressively toned voice, "Honestly, do you want to have kids!?, Be honest". I looked at her with a mouthful and she apologized. I told her that I'd like to talk, but I can't right now, and told her the only night available for me is tonight, and then I'll be busy until Monday...
So she's coming by tonight to 'talk'. I know she's going to have about 500 questions she's wanting to belt out at me... If she asks questions, I'm going to do everything I can to direct the conversation back to her. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have much to say that I haven't already said to her (the DB mantras), and she's made a strong statement with the filing for D.
I find it funny that in this situation, the first thing she points out and wants to know the answer to is... Do I want kids!? wtf...anyways, that's all for now. I have some work to do. Hope all of you are having a good day!
betterm,
It's sound like you're doing really well. You're an awesome DBer! (I still think I'll start calling you Neo.)
What is a miracle question?
That's awesome that you found a good IC!
They are so valuable with helping organized thoughts. Which is what I said the other day. It seemed like your mind was racing. Mentally you know what you should be doing and how to do it. Slow down and work your process and what you want to accomplish.
I think when you and W talk tonight it's important to incorporate the "new you" that you want to be and the guy you are working on. Make sure you listen and validate. Answer her questions. But don't give too much information. For instance. If she asks the kid question the answer her honestly. You do want to have kids. So say yes. Don't over think it, just don't give more details than needed.
You will do great!
betterm,
What is a miracle question?
Thanks for the encouragement, Morpheus.
Miracle question is used regularly in solutions-based therapy, also called the "problem is gone" question... but it's basically:
It's used to help people who are unsure, or conflicted of what their preferred future would look like. It's traditionally asked verbally, and used to provide insight on what someone would do with their life if problem XYZ didn't exist... She modified it for me for my sitch, and since I told her I hold a deeper connection with pen to paper than words to air, she gave me a writing assignment based on the traditional approach...
But the miracle questions typical is:
"Imagine this While you are sleeping tonight, in the middle of the night, a miracle happens, and the problem that prompted you to talk to me today is magically solved! But because this happens while you are sleeping, you have no way of knowing that there was an overnight miracle that solved the problem...
So, when you wake up tomorrow morning, what might be the small change that will make you say to yourself, "Wow, something must have happened - the problem is gone!"
also, a shorter version:
"if you woke up tomorrow, and a miracle happened so that you no longer <insert focal topic here>, what would see differently? What would be the first signs that the miracle occurred?"
---example 'focal topics'---
lost my anger easily
tried to control everything
in debt up to my eyeballs
was constantly badgered by my wife
...etc
Get it?
betterm,
Yes, I understand the miracle question now. Thanks for the explanation!
By the way, if it helps, I'd have children with you.
So, from the time it took to get from my house to sit down and check my email in my office... my W decided to shift gears and went from asking me questions about "if I'd want to have children", to serving me a subpoena for run financial discovery through my employer for 3 years of income and deposit details... this woman, I tell ya what.
Betterm - thank you for the amount of details in your posts! It has been very helpful in relating to my sitch and giving me additional ideas on ways to approach things.
So, from the time it took to get from my house to sit down and check my email in my office... my W decided to shift gears and went from asking me questions about "if I'd want to have children", to serving me a subpoena for run financial discovery through my employer for 3 years of income and deposit details... this woman, I tell ya what.
I almost just sent this text...
"I'm still not sure what you're wishing to talk about tonight, but I'll be home by 8PM. What exactly is it that you're feeling that makes you want to have a conversation about kids one minute, and switch to filing a subpoena to discover potential financial fraud/perjury the next?"
tis tis
And then again. Almost sent... "are you sure you 'want' to talk tonight? If you can't trust that I won't commit perjury on the financial document, how am I supposed to believe anything I say tonight won't be rejected with this same distrust?"
Jeez, I need to put my phone away...
And then again. Almost sent... "are you sure you 'want' to talk tonight? If you can't trust that I won't commit perjury on the financial document, how am I supposed to believe anything I say tonight won't be rejected with this same distrust?"
Jeez, I need to put my phone away...
Step away from the phone!!!
You have no idea why she sent that. You have no idea why she asks the kids question. You have no idea what she wants or who she is right now.
You control betterm and his thoughts! That's what you do
Thank you. I did... I think she's bailing out anyways, said she forgot she already had plans with her mom and dad tonight. Fine by me, I was double-booked too, as I forgot I had an after work "hug & chug" event with some business partners. Double-Win!
She asked if we could talk Friday instead, told her "I can't Friday. I'm free next Wednesday as of right now."
End
(I'm actually free Monday night too, but that's our anniv, and I'm not even going to get involved with that one.)
I just need to remember that SHE's the one that continues to bring up wanting to talk. I need to keep my cool, stay in control, not overthink...
You're doing good betterm. I'm sitting here laughing as I think about you with a mouth full of food as she tries to talk to you. THAT is detachment!
Dont contact her. Dont send her any messages. Just wait and see what she does. I see that your W is VERY conflicted. Let her stew. Let her work it out on her own. You need to work on YOU. Keep your focus there right now.
Quick update today...
2. Change my focus from Her, and MR, to ME. When giving background story, she noticed I talked about her and M a lot, she asked me to focus on me more, and then I told her about my DB'ing, and she said, GREAT!.
I had my first meeting with my IC yesterday. Although most of the appointment was getting the background of what is going on in my life she pretty much said the same thing.
My IC isn't so sure if I would ever be happy in my M going forward. She did say it looks as if I'm holding on to what the M *used* to be instead of what it had become. I know that is what I am doing and that's why I want to work on this M because if I can ever get it to what it used to be then everyone would be so much happier.
RDS, I'll be over to your thread later tonight. wish you well.
I would try to not read too much into the individual L paperworks or attempt to discern any intent from their timing.
I've never gone through the process personally, but I would imagine once you retain a lawyer there is just a long list of things they walk people through doing as standard. The Lawyer neither trusts or distrusts you - they are simply legally obligated to recommend actions in the best interests of their client and once that train's in motion it's going to just keep triggering events sporadically - you can't control those events, so just do like you did today and don't let the events trigger you.
Try to step back and view it as a business transaction like selling a house or a car... you don't take it personally when someone gets your house inspected or looks up the True Market Value of your car, it's just what people do as part of the transaction.
How is betterm doing? did you order those videos from MWD?
Well, it's been quite a while. First off, I hope everyone is doing well, the regulars I talk to, and the strangers about the forums, I hope you're staying strong and doing well. I decided to take a break from these forums for a bit, as I think I was going a little bit crazy with always wanting to post updates, get feedback, read stories of others, etc. It had become one of my GAL activities, and while I love you guys for all you've done to guide me and support me through this, I just had to step away for a bit. And I'll admit, it's been really nice to not constantly reminding myself of what I'm going through, and this site had a tendency to consume me in that way.
---
I want to say not much has changed, but with my detailed posts of the past, I don't think that does it justice. A lot has changed.
---
The rings are off. Our 2-yr anniv past last week. She reached out late AM first, with all kinds of emotional texts, and texts about please wanting to talk and when can we talk, etc. I hadn't been avoiding talks, but our schedules really just hadn't meshed up yet, she works a lot in the evenings, and I had things scheduled like crazy the past few weeks with GAL activities. She did continue texting and asking questions about "why I still want to save our marriage", etc... I withdrew as much as I could with talking about ME and MY FEELINGS. However, after some conversation it did come out to her that (summarized):
-
She talked about "us", our past, our love, our future. i told her i don't want to save our marriage, I was blind at the time, and now i know that saving our existing marriage is not what i want at all. that marriage was a failure and now I can see that. i told her i don't expect anything from that marriage but a divorce, regardless of the legal status, and that if there ever was a future for us, it would be a new marriage, with new values, new beliefs, but the same people".
-
She was confused by this for a minute, asking about "so, would we renew our vows or something?" "actually get divorced and legally remarry?" I said I'm not thinking about any of that stuff right now, and that 'vows' and 'legalities' are not the point of what i see in the meaning of a marriage. She actually responded (validated) me, in the point of a "divorce and re-marriage" between two people", and said to me "I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. That make so much sense."
She said things like "we once had the perfect marriage" and all kind of other stuff that I didn't know whether toe believe or not. I'm sure it was all mostly emotions talking, due to the anniversary.
---
since then, there's been ups and downs, i am continuing to detach, and it's a moving target, I feel detached, and then she says something outrageously hurtful, and I still let it get to me, even when I know it's not true, and she doesn't mean it, so I have some more work to do.
-
She's said "we had such a good friendship, I don't want to lose that friendship with you. Can we please just do this together?" (the divorce...) I could've handled this better, but I told her "that friendship was based on a foundation that traditional friends don't have. And that I don't plan on maintaining THAT friendship with her anymore with her choosing to leave the marriage. I did tell her that I would be friendly and kind throughout the process, but I was not going to "do this with her... this is your divorce, don't include in as anything more than following a legally binding process"
-
I say things are more of the same, because she's still very indecisive, she's nice one minute, yelling and screaming the next. She told me she was going get lawyers involved to prevision a "structured separation" at the house, because she deserves to be living there too. I didn't argue, I just said "I'm sorry you feel we can't be here at the same time, you know you're welcome to be here, stay here, and I will be pleasant towards you no matter what", if she rages, I just leave the situation, and she usually chases me, yelling/swearing and I respond, "I can see you are hurting, and angry, and it's very hard to hold back your emotions when you're around me, etc", and then I set my boundary, or re-state my boundaries... Sometimes this goes well, sometimes it doesn't.
-
Enough about the MR talk though... I'm doing really well. I'm DB'ing like a king. MY GAL is taking over, and I'm actually just going to have to turn it back a notch. I was in overkill mode trying to get through the last two weeks with anniv and all.
-
I'm still working on some 180s, but not necessarily for her anymore, or to get any reactions out of her. I've basically stopped doing anything to "get a reaction," I'm only doing things if I personally think it's right for me, not her.
-
I've been two 2 IC sessions with my new counselor. I love her. She's amazing and million times better than my previous two. My W actually was talking to me about her, and said she might call her and switch, because she's now not so happy with her IC anymore. I said it might be a conflict of interest, but I gave her a card and said good luck. One of the main things my IC has said was "WOW, YOUVE DONE A WHOLE LOT IN A SUCH A SMALL TIME". I don't know if she was impressed, scared, in shock, or what. But she mentioned I might want to slow down a little bit, as this is a 'process', and no matter how fast or hard you work, its going to take time. I think that's good advice for pretty much everyone, especially on these forums. You can't fix everything in a day, take your time, make a plan, follow it.
-
I'm sure there's a lot more I'm leaving out, but this is my first post in over a week. so I'll cut it off here. To all the regulars, and to all the newbies, don't just "hang in there", pull yourself up, stand on top! be strong! Go kick some @$$ already!
betterm,
It's good to hear from you! It sounds like you're doing really well. When you get an opportunity, please update us about your GAL activities.
I'm glad you found a good IC. A good IC is priceless and a bad one is useless.
I'm all for kicking @ss!
So yesterday might of been an interesting time to come here again... Last night around 9pm, W started spewing MR talk all over my phone, talking about coming home, telling me she's crying, etc... and then saying "I should stop texting this stuff, I don't want what I'm saying to come back to bite me in the ass."
I'm not sure what I was thinking, I probably wasn't at all, but I don't regret my response to her... so, in response, I told my W "if you came over, and you didn't pull it together, I am going to take that bite out of your ass so viciously that it will leave tooth marks and an imprint of my face on there for the rest of her life, good luck getting your new man to be okay with that!"
She only responded one thing... "...I wish you would"
I was CRACKING UP! If nothing else, it reminded me of the fun we used to be able to have with one another. I didn't think anything of it, and still don't other than she was having an emotional night. I told her I wasn't going to "be friends", but I think I was doing that out of selfishness thinking "if i take away my friendship, she'll want to not get divorced"... I'm sure a lot of people reading this are confused, but I really don't care to stop the divorce anymore. I'm all for it. I'm having fun again in life. I'm finding my edge that I lost, My wild dark nature. and honestly, I don't want to lose that ever again. I don't want to make the mistake of reconciling too soon, or at all, if it means I have to destroy my best qualities to do so.
So anyways, if any of you happen to find tooth marks and a face imprinted on some bare cheeks on a night you're "getting lucky", just remember, that's betterm's EX!
just to clarify before I get bashed for my actions... I'm not "following rules" anymore. I'm not worried about "doing everything right". I'm just living my life the way I want.
doodler/paclove (and others), I'll shoot some responses your way shortly. I'm about to head into a meeting.
"if you came over, and you didn't pull it together, I am going to take that bite out of your ass so viciously that it will leave tooth marks and an imprint of my face on there for the rest of her life, good luck getting your new man to be okay with that!"
betterm,
That's awesome! But beware, I'm not letting you anywhere near my ass, not even if we're at The Blue Oyster.
betterm-
You are doing so well, I really admire your strength through this difficult time. You have such a great attitude, and you've put so much work into GAL and it's paying off in so many ways. I'm really happy for you - it sounds like your W is reconsidering everything - but you don't even care at this point, and you know that you will be happy either way. Great work.
So yesterday might of been an interesting time to come here again... Last night around 9pm, W started spewing MR talk all over my phone, talking about coming home, telling me she's crying, etc... and then saying "I should stop texting this stuff, I don't want what I'm saying to come back to bite me in the ass."
I'm not sure what I was thinking, I probably wasn't at all, but I don't regret my response to her... so, in response, I told my W "if you come over here, and you don't get your [censored] together, I am going to take that bite out of your ass so viciously that it will leave tooth mark indentions and an imprint of my face on there for the rest of your life, good luck getting your new man to be okay with that!"
She only responded one thing... "...I wish you would"
I was CRACKING UP! If nothing else, it reminded me of the fun we used to be able to have with one another. I didn't think anything of it, and still don't other than she was having an emotional night. I told her I wasn't going to "be friends", but I think I was doing that out of selfishness thinking "if i take away my friendship, she'll want to not get divorced"... I'm sure a lot of people reading this are confused, but I really don't care to stop the divorce anymore. I'm all for it. I'm having fun again in life. I'm finding my edge that I lost, My wild dark nature. and honestly, I don't want to lose that ever again. I don't want to make the mistake of reconciling too soon, or at all, if it means I have to destroy my best qualities to do so.
So anyways, if any of you happen to find tooth marks and a face imprinted on some bare cheeks on a night you're "getting lucky", just remember, that's betterm's EX!
just to clarify before I get bashed for my actions... I'm not "following rules" anymore. I'm not worried about "doing everything right". I'm just living my life the way I want.
doodler/paclove (and others), I'll shoot some responses your way shortly. I'm about to head into a meeting.
My plans just got cancelled for the night, which is fine with me because tomorrow nights going to be a late one. I think I'll pickup some good beverage for the night, hang out on the patio and enjoy my night alone... in turn, I look forward to catching up with your all's sitches. I enjoyed my hiatus, but I've found my ground...
"...I am going to take that bite out of your ass so viciously that it will leave tooth marks and an imprint of my face on there for the rest of her life, good luck getting your new man to be okay with that!"
Just for the record, I am tucking that one away for use in a future convo with WW.
betterm,
It's good to hear from you! It sounds like you're doing really well. When you get an opportunity, please update us about your GAL activities.
I'm glad you found a good IC. A good IC is priceless and a bad one is useless.
I'm all for kicking @ss!
Good to hear from you too. I didn't abandon the forums because of you all, of course. Everyone here as been an incredible help to me. and I thank everyone on here for where I am today. I just needed a break from constantly thinking about M, MR, WAS, and "what to do."
I got so caught up in "what's right" that I couldn't think about anything other than DBing the next move. It was being counter intuitive.
Some of my GAL activities you asked about... Some are self-explanitory, others might not be:
-Mountain Bike / Trail Riding
-Cruising on my new Motorcycle
-Joined local Hackerspace group (yep, I'm geeky hacker type)
-Played in a few local chess tourneys, chess meetups, etc.
-Music, live concerts, discovering new stuff, and playing the guitar more.
-Exercise/Diet, I just finished week 4 of BodyBeast. I've gained almost 7 lbs of muscle since starting the program.
-Reconnecting with old friends, college buddies, high school buddies, people around town. close friends that got lost by the business of 'life'.
-Dog Training, I have two 180+ lb dogs and they never wanted to behave properly because W would not follow the orders of our trainer away from the training site. I've got them almost to the point where they can be leashless around other people and dogs without any concern at all.
-Enjoying my loneliness. This may sound strange, but I enjoy my space, my freedom to be alone and be happy with myself. It's something I lost in my M, as things were always so hectic, the only way I could get "alone time" was to decline something else, which usually led to a fight/argument between me and W. I think this is important, because if you can't find happiness within only yourself, it means you're counting on others things in life to provide 'wholeness' for you.
-Meditation. I'm meditating at least 30 minutes a day. usually 20 minutes in the morning, 10 in evening. I'm working my way up in time spent meditating.
-Gardening. I built two 4x4 raised cedar garden boxes, growing produce for myself and my family. mostly the basics, but it's enjoyable, and saves a ton of money on the grocery bill.
-Reading/Writing. This came about as part of the 'discovery' process for my crumbling marriage, I've shifted the material I'm reading and writing about from the MR, to things that relate more directly with me and my interests.
---
I think that's the primary list of GAL I have for myself right now. I'm getting ready to join a martial arts practice, but haven't found anything I like yet that isn't overly expensive and fits my budget. If I think of anything else I've left off, I'll jot it down here for ya.
---
Like I said, my IC said I need to slow down. I told her I've never been the "slow down type", but I will try to focus on the most important things to me.
A few things I left off...
-I've been spending more time with family. My uncle and I have developed a really strong relationship in the past few months, he went through a D about 15 years ago and has been a good support outlet.
-Professional Development. I'm a tech nerd. I realized I had quit most of my tech training and development due to priority shifts with all the "other things" that needed taken care of. I've already studied for, and completed a certification I've been meaning to get for a while now.
In conjunction with these GAL activities... I've also changed a lot of my HABITS.
-I'm waking up earlier. between 5 and 530AM. I love the additional time in the morning to reflect and relax. No more rushing out the door.
-I'm dressing differently. I started wearing ties and sports jackets to work and around to events. I've already received numerous comments on how I look nowadays. From women, men, and even the CEO of my company stopped by my office just to say something to me about it.
-I've taken a much friendlier approach to my coworkers, community, and neighbors. I try to make a point to listen to them, rather than just 'say hi' and move along. It's helped with my progress of "being present" in conversation and really listening/hearing what people say.
betterm,
TOTAL AWESOMENESS!!! You have been kicking ass. I thought I was getting a lot done, but you're hitting it out of the park. Good for you!
And then, to top it off, you mentioned cedar garden boxes. I love cedar; it's easy to work with and it's beautiful. To finish cedar I just apply several layers of tung oil and I'm done.
Keep it up; I'm thrilled you're doing so well.
You go GAL! Wait, I meant, you go guy and GAL! No, maybe it's go GAL guy! That still isn't right. Oh well, you know what I mean.
And then, to top it off, you mentioned cedar garden boxes. I love cedar; it's easy to work with and it's beautiful. To finish cedar I just apply several layers of tung oil and I'm done.
Yeah, I made the bad decision of choosing treated 2x12 instead of pine, because I wanted it to "hold up," only to later read about how the chemicals used in treated seep into the soil of your crops, and get sucked into the roots of your produce, NOT GOOD! So I ripped it out and used the treated wood to rebuild steps for my garage's back door to the patio.
I chose cedar because (not the price, duh), but it looks great, easy to maintain and holds up very well with the weather... I won't need to replace it every 1-2 years like I would have to if I used pine.
You go GAL! Wait, I meant, you go guy and GAL! No, maybe it's go GAL guy! That still isn't right. Oh well, you know what I mean.
I have no idea, my head used to spin because of the BD, now my head spins because of people like you! Thanks! =]
"...I am going to take that bite out of your ass so viciously that it will leave tooth marks and an imprint of my face on there for the rest of her life, good luck getting your new man to be okay with that!"
Just for the record, I am tucking that one away for use in a future convo with WW.
I'd be so honored to know that I can play a part in your future DB'ing. haha. Maybe one of the mods can create a sticky on how to respond to WAS's once you stop giving a fvkk! =]
And then, to top it off, you mentioned cedar garden boxes. I love cedar;
Two questions:
1. Have you ever watched Parks and Recreation? Are you familiar with "Ron Swanson"? If not, youtube his best quotes... He's hilarious.
2. You were the one who was recently into gardening, and trying to find more plants/flowers that would grow as begonias, right?
Totally agree with you doodler!
betterm - congratulations on the progress your making in your day to day life. Your are definitely taking GAL to a different level from what I've done for myself, so kudos to you!
doodler & lfm...
you all have children, I do not.
The GAL is easy for me as I've always been a crazy active person, up to the point when I married my W. I realized it was mostly her manipulation, and my fear of "stirring the pot", that caused me to lose interest in all these things I once loved about myself.
To add to that list, I've stopped my constant listening of "marriage podcasts" and I'm doing a "learn in your car" foreign language course. I'm planning taking a long vacation (6 week sabbatical) to Russia during the World Cup 2018. So, I've decided to learn Russian rather than listen to "save my marriage podcasts" in the car to/from work. HAHA.
Remember, don't compare yourself to others, because each persons life is circumstantially different. I have no kids, I have a great job, good income, and I'm completely FREE!
Two questions:
1. Have you ever watched Parks and Recreation? Are you familiar with "Ron Swanson"? If not, youtube his best quotes... He's hilarious.
2. You were the one who was recently into gardening, and trying to find more plants/flowers that would grow as begonias, right?
betterm,
1. I've never watched Parks and Recreation, but I'll check out the Ron Swanson quotes.
2. Yes on the gardening thing. I've had a lot of success with begonias. I have two issues with flowering plants in my yard. One issue is that I have five large oak trees in my yard so it's a bit shady and it's hard to find flowering plants that thrive in the shade. The second issue is that deer come through my yard and they like to eat most flowering plants (except begonias). Unfortunately, there's a rabbit that comes through the yard and it seems to like begonias. The rabbit isn't as destructive as the deer, but it does eat the top-most flowers off the begonias.
betterm,
I forgot to mention; the trip to Russia sounds awesome!
1. I've never watched Parks and Recreation, but I'll check out the Ron Swanson quotes.
Yes, do it now. He's such the manliest man I aspire to be HAH!
2. I've had a lot of success with begonias.
I have Hydrangea's planted in the shady parts of my landscape. They are great, look great, but I might look for something else in the near future, as the location of our wedding took place in the largest Hydrangea Garden in the area... But I do like them, so who knows. They should grow within your requirements.
betterm,
I'm glad you mentioned hydrangeas; I have one hydrangea, but the blossoms have turned green. What's up with that? I've never had much success with hydrangeas. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
might be a dumb question, but are you sure you don't have a variety that actually produces green blooms? haha.
Are you in the south? humid climate can have some weird effects on flowering, and I guess you may want to consider using a different type of acidic fertilizer to balance it out.
might be a dumb question, but are you sure you don't have a variety that actually produces green blooms? haha.
Are you in the south? humid climate can have some weird effects on flowering, and I guess you may want to consider using a different type of acidic fertilizer to balance it out.
betterm,
It had beautiful big bright blue boisterous blossoms when I bought it. Then, after I worked my special magic, all the blossoms turned as green as the leaves. Maybe I'll try some fertilizer.
Yes, I live in the south (but I don't have the funky southern accent - really). I've seen other hydrangeas in my area that look normal, so it must be something that doodler is doing wrong or not doing right. I'll have to figure out what's going on because I want to plant more hydrangeas. (There's a really cute woman that's waaay to young for me at one of the nearby nurseries; I often feel compelled to go there and buy a plant or two just 'cause.)
What I've read, is that you either need an acidic fertilizer, or of that's not the problem...
Then the "greening" of the bloom is usually temporary, last 1-3 years, and then, once they learn how to DB, GAL, and 180, They'll spring back to life, Shining their true colors brighter than ever!!! (like that?)
What I've read, is that you either need an acidic fertilizer, or of that's not the problem...
Then the "greening" of the bloom is usually temporary, last 1-3 years, and then, once they learn how to DB, GAL, and 180, They'll spring back to life, Shining their true colors brighter than ever!!! (like that?)
Why does my thread get turned into the home & garden show? haha
betterm,
I'm getting a box and some tape and I'm sending that d@mn hydrangea to you!
Do it, doodler! Please include your return address and I'll mail it back after I'm finished DBing the h3ll out of it.
I don't think about my W's reactions to much nowadays, but sometimes I do try to put myself in her shoes and "act out" how I think she'd react to certain things. (fyi, I was imagining her opening the postage box, to find a dead flower that is supposed to symbolize our marriage, shriveled and fallen to pieces... and then accusing me if doodler was some girl I work with, probably the hot one, right?...)
It usually ends in some form of dark humor on how ridiculous I feel she's become about everyday life. Seriously... in the words spoken by my 10 year old niece... "you have no idea what my life is like. you just have no idea how hard it is to be me." I couldn't imagine living in the head of my W...
Life Stinks!
betterm,
LOL Good post!
... and then accusing me if doodler was some girl I work with, probably the hot one, right?...)
She'd definitely be a hot one! In fact, I might try putting myself into my wife's shoes as well as one of her dresses and I can meet you at The Blue Oyster and you can see for yourself just how hot doodler can be.
Wow, missed quite the discussion here this morning. I might have to make a trip to The Blue Oyster to find out how hot you can be doodler. I also appreciate the Home and Garden show, maybe you guys can get on HGTV... Gardening while moving on with your life or something like that...
Ifm,
It was a rookie mistake; when everyone told me to GAL, I didn't realize that it was an acronym. So there I was at The Blue Oyster...
doodler & lfm...
To add to that list, I've stopped my constant listening of "marriage podcasts" and I'm doing a "learn in your car" foreign language course. I'm planning taking a long vacation (6 week sabbatical) to Russia during the World Cup 2018. So, I've decided to learn Russian rather than listen to "save my marriage podcasts" in the car to/from work. HAHA.
I am seriously thinking of learning another language and adding it to my 5 goals my IC wants me to do. I haven't done it because of time constraints. I don't have an excuse anymore.
I am seriously thinking of learning another language and adding it to my 5 goals my IC wants me to do. I haven't done it because of time constraints. I don't have an excuse anymore.
Do you commute to work? The program I'm using right now is called "Pimsleur". There are workbooks that go with it, but it's primarily a mp3 based learning system, and the lessons are 25-35 minutes a piece. Which is exactly about the length of my commute into the office, and I'll listen to the same lesson two times in a row, once in the AM and once in the PM.
It's really a "business" type focus for someone who may be traveling to a country with a different native language. The first things you focus on are things like, "where's the best food?" "where's the toilet?" etc. And one hidden gem is that it seems to focus a lot on meeting new people, and asking them out for a drink, why this is involved in the first few lessons, I have no idea. but for many people on this site, I'd say it's relevant. Cause when I travel to the nation of choice, I definitely want to be able to confidently meet someone new, and get drunk with them! :)hahhahah
Wow, missed quite the discussion here this morning. I might have to make a trip to The Blue Oyster to find out how hot you can be doodler. I also appreciate the Home and Garden show, maybe you guys can get on HGTV... Gardening while moving on with your life or something like that...
yes, you did! haha. doodler and I have a tendancy to run rampant on nonsense. It's funny looking back at what I used to post about when I started on this DB thing, wife did this, wife did that, how do I respond to wife, etc... now it's just random stuff that of whatever I'm thinking at the moment... ie, home and garden show! lol. My W and I always talked about how awesome it would be to be on one of those improvement shows to get a really cool house upgrade... if she saw me on one of those, maybe it would convince her to come back to the marriage! LOL, Good luck, honey!
Great goal RDS. I should think about adding that to one of my goals as well!
Do you commute to work? The program I'm using right now is called "Pimsleur". There are workbooks that go with it, but it's primarily a mp3 based learning system, and the lessons are 25-35 minutes a piece. Which is exactly about the length of my commute into the office, and I'll listen to the same lesson two times in a row, once in the AM and once in the PM.
My commute is about 25 minutes during the summer and it increases to about an hour when school is back in session. I don't think I could listen and learn anything during the drive. Too many idiots on the road (of course I'm the only good driver out there
). I will still look into it. Is it as expensive as
Rosetta Stone?
My commute is about 25 minutes during the summer and it increases to about an hour when school is back in session. I don't think I could listen and learn anything during the drive. Too many idiots on the road (of course I'm the only good driver out there
). I will still look into it. Is it as expensive as
Rosetta Stone?I don't think it's cheap, but mine fell off the back of a truck somewhere and I found it on the side of the road <cough cough>, so I've never actually looked at the price.
The conversations (phone) are getting a little stranger. One minute she's threatening lawyers to remove me from the house (legal structured separation), the next minute she's talking about not getting divorced and putting the pieces back together. She continues to "want to talk" about things, and I continue to tell her that I've told her everything I have to tell her about my stance on the M and the D.
Every time she "talks" to me about us, it's not "talking," it's her just asking a thousand questions about MR stuff: kids, careers, relocation (she thinks I'll leave the area once D is final), family, etc. I tell her that I'm not focusing on any of that stuff at the moment, I'm just trying to figure things out for myself. She doesn't want to "talk", she wants "answers" on whether or not she's making the right decision.
Yesterday she text me and asked if I wanted to go halfsies on a wedding gift for one of her friends she's in the wedding for. I told her that I would never have been invited to that wedding if we weren't married, and that I don't plan on going. She said its not for a few months, you never know what's going to happen in that time.... okay?
This was followed up with her texting me pictures of some shirts on sale where she was shopping. asking "hey these are on sale, want me to get you some?" I didn't reply for an hour or so and just said, "thanks, but I'm good". She apologized for the sporadic texts and said she would try not to do stuff like that anymore.
I have a feeling she thinks that if/when she decides she's made a mistake and wants to reconcile, we will just hop back into our marriage and carry on. She said she wants a family soon and hates the thought of having to start over... I haven't brought this up yet, but if, somehow, there is reconciliation, we will be starting over all together, and it won't be happening anytime soon. Frankly, I'm so far removed from thinking I want reconciliation, her having kids with me will probably be much further in the future than if she started a relationship with someone else, married them, and had kids.
I'm sticking to what I know right now, sticking to what I need to do for myself. If I choose I want her in my future, it's going to be a long, long road before any prospect of adding children to our lives even becomes a option for me. I don't need any more complications in my life right now.
betterm,
Last week my STBXW asked if I wanted to split the cost if season tickets for the boys for a nearby water park. I told her I would. From a financial perspective it makes sense, so I did it. If there hadn't been any financial benefit I would've told her "no."
I realize my situation is different. But, my point is that I don't look at it from a relationship perspective I look at it from a practical perspective; does it make sense for me?
I got a chuckle of the photo of the shirts, I've received similar txts' from W over the last few months (not very often but a few). As for the wedding gift - I agree with you on that one. My W early on was expecting me to help pay for a trip with her and D which was planned before Separation to which I declined as I was never invited.
I do however share costs which are more mutually beneficial in nature thought, house, investments, some groceries etc.
Part of this is due to my W completely freaking out about her financial situation. and I don't blame her. Since I've moved my income to another account, I think she's finally seeing, just how bad she is with her spending habits. She feels I'm doing things to purposely make her life harder right now. Which, of course, is not what I'm doing at all, I'm just making my life, about my life. (more to come)
Funny... I think my W might slowly be realising the same. She always said I spend way too much (I make big but infrequent purchases) meanwhile she does a lot more smaller purchases, they don't seem like a lot at the time but they add up!
Well, I wasn't sure about posting this, but I'm not really sure why I wouldn't after the other stuff I have posted... First off, my W is an animal lover, she has a never-ending heart and passion for the care and nurturing of animals. I'm going to be very brief here because of sad.
(very shortened story). My W took our dogs to her parents to play for the day, and in a freak accident, they killed her cat (not an attack, our 200lb dog squished her). This was her cat she left with her parents when we got our first apt together, because the cat's sister lived there as well, and she didn't want to split them up. She called me hysterical, I was in shock. I went over there, hugged her mom, offered services/condolences, got the dogs, and left.
When I came back home again, W was at the house, laying in our bed with the cats. I sat down next to her we just talked a bit about what happened that morning. It was all very sad and I just did my best to hold it together. We ended up ordering take-out, and after some piddling around the house, I eventually ended up sitting next to her on the bed again... she was binge-watching a show, we started talking again about the animals. I laid back and just kinda sat with her, we talked off an on about random things for an hour or so, no R talk at all, no awkward "are you going to sleep here?" anything like that. We were just being friends of each other, it was actually really nice.
I fell asleep, and woke up, next to my W for the first time in months. Of course, no romance, no intimacy, no 'intentional' touching, etc, we just slept next to each other... I won't lie to you all, it was very bittersweet. However, I don't feel any differently about my overall situation than I did before... My thoughts/emotions are much more tailored around the tragic event than anything related to the M. I got ready for work and brought her up a cup of coffee just before heading out. I felt bad leaving her there alone; she was crying again this morning... I love my W, her family, love those animals, this is sad for everyone, its just hard to see her grieving like this... I don't know, but I feel terrible.
betterm,
I'm sorry about you wife's cat. Losing an animal is very difficult.
I think you made very good choices in how you responded to the death of the cat. You showed your wife that you love her and care for her and that you're not a callous person.
You're a good man betterm.
Agree with what you said doodler. We had to put down two dogs not too long before the affair started, and it was a very emotional time for both my W and our kids.
betterm - I think you hanlded this appropriately and showed your wife exactly what you needed to.
You may be in the middle of a divorce and not give a crap anymore, but you still love your M. Seeing her grieve will cause anyone with a heart to feel terrible.