...start of something new? pt.4 - DivorceBusting.com

last thread...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2679317&page=11

Originally Posted By: betterm

last thread...
Up to the antics again. Last night we both had stuff going on and got home around 11:15PM or so, it was a quiet encounter, she kept boasting about her �new friend Jan� and how awesome of a time they had. Not sure why she felt she needed to all the sudden start sharing her life with me, but okay� great. I noticed she didn�t have the ring on still, didn�t say anything about it.

This morning I noticed again and asked if she was no longer wearing her ring, and she said, �not right now, I took it off when you went all crazy and yelled at me on the phone.�� this might be how she remembers it, or she might just be trying to antagonize, but there was no yelling. She was referring to the conversation on Friday when she found out I withdrew all my direct deposit money into cash. She escalated and I told her �I just took it out so I could have one month�s bills, in cash, in case you decide to retain an attorney� have to have money to pay the bills, that�s all I�m doing.� She went on to say how �sneaky� it is, and she thinks I�m up to something like I�m going to leave the M and this is only pushing her �further away� from her. That�s when I told her I�m not leaving, and she�s the one making the decision to leave, I�m just protecting myself for when she does�.�

Somehow, my calm, direct, approach to this conversation has her this morning, fuming about how I �went crazy� and �disrespected her by yelling and calling names� over the phone call on Friday� I hope this is her just �up to antics� and trying to start something. Because this has, yet, been ANOTHER problem of our past. Her �way to remember� things are so far from the truth, it�s like her memory exists in some other realm of fictional existence� there�s probably some kind of psycho-analysis for this kind of behavior � remembering things falsely to fit your current need/situation�.

Anyways, I�m not going to let it tear me up, she�s �not wearing the ring, now, but she�s going to wear it this weekend,� she told me. (We�ll be spending the weekend apart again, as she�ll be going out of town with family & friends (annual trip), and I�m not invited this year. So, I�ve planned a trip of my own� haven�t told her this, and I�ve already arranged for care of the animals. Actually, I�m excited that for the first time in 5 years (the first two years were fun), I�m doing something different on this (hopefully) beautiful Memorial Day weekend!

I see a second-opinion attorney this morning, who may very well become my first-opinion attorney, She's expensive, and recommended by our family business attorney as the real deal for divorces. haha. we'll see how it goes, and I'll post update later.

betterm,

With regards to the yelling; my WW would dream-up all sorts of things that never happened. For a while I thought may I was the one who was crazy. It took me a little longer than it should have for me to figure it all out, but I finally I wasn't suffering from dementia.

I hope you have a great time on your trip. I've found that distance doesn't always make the heart grow fonder.

I should proof read before submitting. Here's the rewrite...

For a while I thought maybe I was the one who was crazy. It took me a little longer than it should have for me to figure it all out, but I finally realized I wasn't suffering from dementia.

Good on you betterm, don't let her into your head. Let her deal with her dementia.

I met with second attorney and she said that in our state it actually is possible for her to file for D and as part of that file she can 'request' to remove me from the home until it's all finalized. She did say though that it would require quite a bit of circumstance: abuse, chronic infidelity, her feeling 'unsafe', etc. All which becomes his word vs her word, and it's up to the judge to determine if they really think said person is in danger, etc. She said its very unlikely this would happen, but in a worst case scenario, it's not entirely impossible. I have a safe place to stay if it happens, but so does she, so it's likely that if she tries it the judge will just ask her why she can't move out instead...

The attorney I saw today showed me worst case / best case, which is a little bit more 'straight-up' than the previous attorney. She also sits on the bench two days a week, as a judge, in a neighboring county, so she understand how things can go from both points of view.

I've put lots of thought into my situation, and after today's talk, I'm highly considering 'making a move' for her to make a decision. There is a "marriage helper" 3-day workshop being held the weekend of (what would be our) 2 year anniversary. There hasn't been much R/MR talk lately, and whenever she just 'talks' it still seems she's bouncing back and forth on whether we will 'continue marriage' or 'file for D'. My problem with that is, she's not willing to work on herself, and now I'm the one that's rethinking the idea of spending my life with someone who can't look at herself in the mirror and realize (and repair), her issues in this marriage, along with mine (which I'm already working on).

I know the theory is "no R talk", and I realize there hasn't been a lot of 'time' during the announcement of separation/divorce and now. But I'm really thinking about bringing some things up and see how she handles it. I can approach softly, and say, 'look, if you want the D, and you're sure of it, I will give you the D, but if you're on the fence or not sure, there is this marriage workshop we can attend to see if we think it would even be right for us to try to reconcile. And just see how she perceives it. Not go into details about 'us' or our R past, or any of that, but just put it on the table and ask her to think about it, and see what kind of response I get.

If she really comes back and firmly says she thinks we should D, then I'll do it. I'm ready to either repair things (but only with her willing to do the work with me), or bring this to an end, and start the next chapter of my life.

betterm,

These are just my opinions, so certainly don't act on my input without getting advice from others...

Even if your wife agrees to the marriage workshop, in her current state of mind, it's not going to help anything and will likely increase her anger and angst. I suspect it'll be a waste of time and money.

If you are really open to reconciling with your wife, then I'd recommend GAL. Do something that really interests and excites you and gets your mind off of the marriage.

It sounds like in the end you would like to save your marriage like most of us.
So that being said. Slow down!!!! There is no reason to push for workshops, no reason to pressure you or her, no reason to have any R talks.
Work on you and control what you can. You can control where you stay, you can control your actions, you can control your GAL mentality.
Focus on those things and stop trying to speed up the process. There isn't a magic pill for this.
You didn't get into this situation overnight and you are not going to get out of it overnight

You guys suck! =)

lol betterm, you can try some R talk which will get you nowhere - perhaps you just want to get it off your chest, then why not.

But as for the D, leave it in her "court". Just try and stay two steps ahead of the curve, which you clearly are.

She will only be willing to do the work if she realises what she's lost. Right now i can't see her thinking that she's lost anything. Sorry if i suck too.

She's still throwing tantrums about how 'rediculous' and 'crazy' I am for taking cash out of the joint spending account (to make sure I can pay the bills if she hires an attorney - I told her this and she said "I understand"), but I guess she just wants to use that to fuel the fire for whenever she wants to start one.

You guys have talked me out of it I guess. She's going out of town for 1 day this weekend, and 3 days next weekend (to visit drive-able out-of-state friend), and she's going to burn through her LAST paycheck from the school system. I have mixed emotions on how to handle the personal/joint checking situation once that happens. She will literally have almost NO income (outside of maybe $75 a week from side-gig).

I'm hesitate to tell her 'if you want money, ask for it and I'll see', due to the meeting with attorney today. She said even though we my state does not do 'alimony', if she files and is jobless, they can force 'maintenance support' to her since she has no income, however that's "arguable", and would end up being settled by the judge. I'd have to prove she has a place to live (parents), and isn't going to starve or anything... which I THINK I can do, but judges are human and even tho trained not to take sides or get emotional on issues, wrong judge could be a bad thing for me.

I'm hoping, hoping, hoping, she's found another job. I just saw that the school corp posted her exact position online Monday, so they've either asked her not to come back next year (I can see this, She's always late and from past experience, hard to get along with in work environment), or she's told them that she doesn't plan on returning. Neither of those have come up in conversation between us. But if she files while jobless, it makes things a whole lot worse for me, as opposed to having even a $20k job to survive on.

teetering between "show her what she's missing" (she'll have no money), and doing some sort of 'allowance' until she finds a job, a very, very low one. I don't want to push the button that forces her to file, while she's jobless though. I'd have to argue that since she's jobless, I'd assume ALL debt between us, leaving me about $1k a month to spare, and then she'd try to suck half of that out of me... My only concern.

and yes, I know "show her what she's missing" doesn't necessarily mean the money... that's just a part of it.

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!!!
you asking these things and wanting to do these things just to spite her because you are angry. You can admit or not. But you clearly haven't detached and your head is spinning. It's easy to tell because you are posting all your thoughts. I'm not one to usually throw 2x4's around, but I don't know what else to say.
You've clearly said you make plenty of money and have made that known. So to go through June and pay for bills shouldn't exactly make you broke. I get not wanting to pay for her "vacations"
But to "cut her off" and things you are saying are way too soon

Originally Posted By: cbtdad

SLOW DOWN!!!!!!!!
you asking these things and wanting to do these things just to spite her because you are angry. You can admit or not. But you clearly haven't detached and your head is spinning. It's easy to tell because you are posting all your thoughts. I'm not one to usually throw 2x4's around, but I don't know what else to say.
You've clearly said you make plenty of money and have made that known. So to go through June and pay for bills shouldn't exactly make you broke. I get not wanting to pay for her "vacations"
But to "cut her off" and things you are saying are way too soon

reality check. thank you. I guess the meeting with attorney this morning got me over-anxious. One battle at a time. Thanks!

Question about GAL, do home improvements, home project that improve quality of life, qualify for GAL? I have no problem 'going out', 'events', 'activities', etc, and this would be something totally for me, but I want to build a new raised garden bed and one of her 'complaints' about me in the last year was spending too much time 'piddling' around the house doing stuff.

Secondly, does it matter? If its something that I enjoy, and I want to involve myself in, should I not care how it's viewed through 'her eyes'?

betterm,

In my opinion, GAL can be anything that gets your mind off of the marital stuff. I think it's really supposed to get you out amongst other people so you can make new friends and build a support system.

However, there was a lot of stuff I needed to do around my house and yard and I've been doing that and it's been wonderful. I think it can be a great GAL activity particularly if your wife is away (mine has moved out).

Here's the DB coach answer; find something that really excites you and is infectious when you talk to other people about it. You know those times when you were doing something that interested you so much that it absorbed every brain cell that you have and you couldn't stop thinking about it? That's a good GAL activity. (But no, the strip club doesn't really qualify.)

gotcha. well, starting a new garden is something that does kinda excite me, I don't know what, but something about the self-survival aspect behind it. It's something I've talked about for a while, and it should only be a 1-2 day project with a gas tiller. I think I'll knock it out this weekend and be done with it.

As for other things... jeez, I've started trail riding again, work-out program, new diet, but those are all small things that are just 'improvements' thus far... I've been going out with friends, family, etc. but something that TOTALLY consumes my every brain cell... hmmmm, I'm gonna have to hunt that down and get back with ya! Lots of things cross my mind, but mostly drastic stuff that requires moolah I don't have to spend right now.

betterm,

I don't know anything about plants and flowers, but I started my yard beautification project (or projects) and I can't get it out of my head. I put some potted flowering plants along a big horizontal branch of a big oak tree in my back yard and it looks awesome. Now I'm itching to do more of that stuff.

I'm actually learning the names of the various plants and figuring out the lighting needs of the plants (a lot of my yard is shady). I didn't think I'd be so into gardening, but here I am posting to the forum about my horticultural adventures.

LOL, you guys. Have you discovered...ahem...Pinterest, yet? That could be a bit dangerous. But seriously, you all are moving through the GAL activities with such enthusiasm and creativity. Its pretty infectious! Well done!

And I'm with cbtdad. Betterm, your anger slip is showing. You're fine, but its hard to keep to the left of that really fine line between protecting/ preparing yourself and vindictiveness. Remember, she's hurt and scared (whether her perception is accurate or not) and that's causing her behavior. Don't back the cougar into a corner or there will be blood...

If my W found me on Pinterest she'd divorce me out of spite for all the crap I've given her over how social media ruins lives. HAHA. jk.

I got an update after yet another "blowout" (if you asked her) tonight. I'm a bit confused on my '180'...

Just got home from concert. Will update in 15ish

Ok, so I was trying to get out of the house before W came home from work, but she caught me just as I was getting out of the shower and heading out. It was pleasant at first, we even laughed about a few things. Then, 'it happened'... as it probably always does with many of us on here.

I won't go through the entire thing, but a few key points that stuck with me and relate how I want to respond.

1. She started packing a bag and complaining about how she's getting tired of doing so, and again, that it isn't fair that I just get to stay here whenever I want, regardless of what she thinks of the situation.

2. W said she can only handle so much time around me before she needs to get away, and said 'there are good days, and bad days, where we have are huge arguments'. (we don't have "arguments" anymore, it just starts with her venting, me validating, and then her getting more and more angry, bringing up things of the past, and how she just can't be around me without thinking about 'us' and the situation we are in, and how she can't come to any other conclusion at this time other than it is all my fault we are here. She said if I'd give her more time apart (mentioned splitting nights at the house again), she's have a clearer head to analyze her problems as well, and get through this.

3. She said she does NOT want a divorce, and can not believe that for two people that love each other so much, we've come to this point. She said she's just so angry and confused and scared and doesn't know what to think about anything, and she just needs some time to let the air clear so we can figure out how to salvage and start piecing things back together.

4. She brought up my withdrawing of the direct deposit and said it still bothers her as we are 'better than that'. She told me she mentioned that to her attorney (friend) and he actually told her that if he was my attorney, he'd tell me to do the same thing. She said 'but I don't want us to have to be like that', and he replied 'then you're probably going to get screwed, because I guarantee his attorney is telling him to separate funds. I had the cash envelope that I put in the safe, and told her I'm putting it in the night stand, so it's no longer in 'my possession only', (I figured, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen, and if she wants to take that money, then that's when I start to change the tone a bit... it's still hidden in our house at the moment, as I don't know what I should do yet.)

5. She said my decision to stay home and not split nights/weeks with her was selfish, and I've always been selfish, and I always think "my way is the right way", regardless of her reasoning. She asked me: "Why do you think you always have the right answer, have you actually asked anyone else their opinion on this?", I responded that I've talked to several different counselors, and a few friends, male and female, that know of our situation, and everyone of them said I'm doing what's right for our relationship. This was the only time I 'explained' anything, as she asked me the direct questions several times.

6. She said "do those counselors know me? do those friends know me? do they know my needs, do they know my wants? I don't want a divorce, I just need xyz to gather myself. they don't know what's right for 'us' and our relationship, they don't know me like you know me.

7. She said the time shared in this house just makes things 'more awkward', like when I'm making breakfast, she's making dinner, I make coffee in the morning, etc... it just makes her think nonstop about 'i wish he was making me breakfast/coffee', I wish I could eat this dinner with him, etc'. and every little thing that is done around the house reminds her of how she WANTS us to be, but we just can't be that way right now because of the sitch.

8. She had a few "yell spells" and I did everything I could to just listen, validate, and tell her I see where she's coming from, but she kept going back to saying thins about her having time at home, in the master bedroom, and then pausing... like she was waiting for me to say 'okay, stop packing your bag, I'll stay at <somewhere else> tonight. but I never did. I just said I understood where she was coming from, and that I was sorry she felt trapped into having to leave every X days in order to escape me.

9. It escalated (she escalated), by saying she felt like she was just talking to a brick wall, and that I never actually "say anything", I just stand there and pretend like I'm listening to what she's saying, but I that I don't ever actually listen to her, and I never do sheet to help her with her feelings/needs. She starting screaming, walking away, down the stairs, and out into the garage, still screaming, and slammed the door behind her and left.

10. Shortly after, I received a text, "One of your problems (and therefore my own personal problem)... You always listening to everyone else and never me, your wife". I responded about 20 minutes later, "I see, I hadn't really thought of it as taking my "help" as a priority over you and your considerations, but I do see why you'd feel that way and make you feel like you're not important to me in my actions."

Now, I had some time to think, and my 180 is a bit conflicting with one another. On one hand, I've always been indecisive about things outside of "business matters" in our relationship. I've finally made a stand on the house/separation situation. However, and probably more of an issue, is that I've always had a tendancy to "turtle shell" when she's telling me her problems, worries, fears, thoughts, etc. I know "don't believe anything she says, but I kind of think a "180" in this position would be to let her know I am really listening, and that my 'decisions' I've made in the past month, haven't been made with my "wife" in mind, but the person who no longer wants me as her husband, aka soon to be ex wife, since she's stated multiple times now that she wants the D, and that she's not willing to work on "us" at this time.

Is it worth taking a slight dip here and showing her that I AM listening to her words, and that I am willing to "work with her" if that's what she's needs to get past this barrier? Is this what DDJ was referring to by saying 'if all it is to drop the rope is moving out a couple days a week, do it'. Or would something like this have a much more potential to completely backfire on me?

She said "<attorney friend> wants to meet with me tomorrow morning. I don't know why, and I don't really even want to meet with him because I don't think it should be necessary for us."

I had a text typed out, but didn't send "hey, I have been thinking about what you said earlier, and I'm not sure if you're off work or not, but if you're willing to listen to me for a minute I'd like to share my thoughts with you <over coffee or something>..." I feel like it would be beneficial for her to hear that my actions recently have been made towards a person who is divorcing me, leaving me for good, and never going to want to work on 'us'. But if she is willing to commit and say she DOES want to work on 'us', would this be the 180 to turn the corner? or the 180 that backfires?

ie, my actions recently haven't been made against my 'wife', but the woman who was my wife and now no longer wants me in her life... in preparing me for life alone, with a wife, since she was adamant on not reconciling.

Originally Posted By: betterm

ie, my actions recently haven't been made against my 'wife', but the woman who was my wife and now no longer wants me in her life... in preparing me for life alone, with a wife, since she was adamant on not reconciling.

"without a wife", typo

i think sometimes you need to go with your gut feel. Dont let your wife spew at you, you cant validate it. Most people here say to cut it short and leave the room when they get shouty.

Depending on the situation ill sometimes take a stance. Ill tell her im here in the M, you are the one who is choosing out or whatever shes blaming me for. I'll acknowledge the wrong i did but i not the imaginary ones. Ofcourse ill try to frame it as nicely as possible but firm.

From what i read she does want to spend time with you. Maybe try to do so in small dosages. Every sich is different. Again go with your gut feel too you know. Is your ignoring her more of the same old behaviour? for example my issue was i was always working day and night so my complete 180 is im present at home now most days, i remind her i am good father and a good husband / partner while trying not to be pursuing.

After i beat the EA and her wayward behaviour with a stick and reaffirmed i am her husband.

Im not a fan of the silent approach. Id rather puff out my chest and tell her straight i am her H and will not tolerate her pretending to be single, she wants to pretend to be single then show me the D.

If she affirms that she is your wife, then i dont see how easing up alittle will hurt unless shes is carrying on the WW behaviour.

I guess it all depends on your sich. What can you do to DB for yourself while still showing her the best you (that includes best father, partner, husband material, etc)

I'm already going out with my brother tonight (she doesn't know this),so I think I'm going to tell her what I said above, and tell her I won't be coming home tonight or tomorrow night, so if she wants the house is hers til saturday, and just see what the reaction is. Wouldn't be the end, either way.

Stop listening to her words. Look at her actions.

What are/were your goals? It sounds to me like you're a bit of a rudderless ship.

Originally Posted By: darknes

Stop listening to her words. Look at her actions.

What are/were your goals? It sounds to me like you're a bit of a rudderless ship.

you're right. She's lost her damn mind and I've lost control.... Got caught up in two 180s and 180x2 just makes ya spin in circles...

betterm,

She's obviously working through some issues and you're on the receiving end of her internal chaos.

Cadet posted something recently; he said that the root cause of the wayward spouse syndrome is depression and, since you're the closest person to her, you're perceived as the cause of the issues (paraphrased).

Something is going on that she can't figure out. Individual counseling for her, or both of you, may help. I don't really know what to recommend because your situation seems to be a little different than many others.

As I'd said before, this has happened so early in your marriage, and you don't have kids, that it seems like something else is amiss. There may be a third party, a confidant that she's become enamored with, or possibly some childhood abuse or something.

I wish I had something definitive to tell you, but there's something simmering under the covers (poor metaphor) and it'd be nice to know what's causing your wife's angst.

There's Sandi's rules, again. Believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do. Actions over words and even those can be suspect.

Remember, it gets worse before it gets better. Think of this as a battle...a battle to win your marriage back, but a war to win YOU back.

She has told you she wants a D and that she doesn't want to work on your R. Now that you are standing your ground, she is telling you she doesn't want a D and wants to work on M and YOU are standing in the way. She is trying to sway you; manipulate you. So...do you believe any of it?

She can't stand to be at her parents, she can't stand to be around you. Im curious as to why she isn't staying with a friend. Does she not have any close ones? Are you her "bestie"? This could be a sign of co-dependency...strange for a relatively new marriage.

She is unhappy and spinning around trying to escape her unhappiness. This is a woman in crisis and it isn't just about you. She isn't aware yet that it is her that she's running from. No real job, dependent and spoiled, no kids depending on her...The rudderless ship also applies to her. This is why you detach. She has to work on this problem herself, but if you stand your ground firmly (stay in your house, live your life, make her do the work to grow up) she can do this. She NEEDS to work on her. You NEED to work on you.

Yes, continue to validate (no buts, no explanation). Up it. Add to your validation a repetition of her words once in awhile...it SHOWS you are listening. "So, I hear you saying you don't want a D?" ...pause...wait for her answer. Avoid judging that answer. Just continue validating. Aim for detachment...it doesn't matter if it makes her angry...its easier to lash out at the one you feel closest to...its safer. You are a safe target. Stand your ground and stop thinking her words are true.

And no, it is not time to send any type of text that even slightly approaches setting up an R talk. She's trying to manipulate you to gain control and you want to have a sit down face-to-face with her at THIS stage? Knowing that she's a woman desperately grabbing at ways to get her way when she doesn't even know what she wants? Take a break from that. Slow down. Give her some emotional distance. Her actions are showing that your's are having an effect. Give it time to work, now. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

I wonder what would happen if you didn't tell her you were going to be gone for two nights? Just, were gone?

Also, you do realize her "lawyer friend" comment was dropped in casually as a veiled threat...to see your reaction. Right? Don't react to that cr^p. She is VERRRRY manipulative. You are going to have to be very wary.

I know guys, thank you so much all who responded, and I'm just happy that I didn't push 'send' last night. I should've known better as I had a few drinks in my as well, not drunk, but definitely not on par with what I'm trying to accomplish. I let the emotions, and her emotions get to me, and it knocked my feet out from under me for a second, even through this morning.

She called me from work, and I answered, She asked if I had anything to say about last night and I told her I didn't have much to add to what was already said, I told her my "decisions" recently haven't been made towards, or against, "my wife", as "you told me every day for weeks you wanted a divorce and didn't want me around anymore." And it was more of the same from her. "I don't know what I want, I just need time to figure it out and with you being so selfish to not leave the house it's not allowing me the space I need to look at this properly.'

cilizen - I actually am her "bestie", but she does have several other "close friends" she could be staying with. She said she doesn't like staying at friends houses either because while she's there she can't 'be to her self' and doesn't have time to put into thinking about our situation, as someone is always around. She wants some time 'alone', so friends houses, parents house, etc, do not allow her that. And I totally understand what she means, as I have the same problem at my brothers, friends, parents, etc. I asked her previously what it would take for her to get the 'space' 'time' she needs in our house, WITH me still staying there, and she never answered, blew it off, and said even if I was in the basement with the door closed, it wouldn't be good enough.

On the 'dont listen to words, look at her actions' comment. This is probably what made it easier to understand for me. Her 'words' are all over the place: lies, manipulative, targeted, etc... her 'actions' however, are more of the same. Angry rants, temper tantrums, and even though she continues to say I'm the selfish one, her actions are repetitively selfish so to speak.

I need to work more on how to deal with boundaries. even she said, "things are good sometimes at the house", BUUUUUT, then she'll start talking R talk, and asking questions, and then "we" have arguments (its really just her b*tching and me listening). I need to get better and cutting those kinds of things off before they start, without her feeling like I'm ignoring her feelings/thoughts. Once she starts, I need to find a way to create a breakpoint to end things before she gets out of control and to the point of un-validate-able. because I can usually validate/empathize with the first parts of conversation, but once the emotions take over her, it's just ranting and there is no way to validate any of that.

Also, about the "just not coming home" thing... Good idea. I know she gets home tonight around 7. I will be sure to be gone by then, and not contact her at all, and just not plan on going home tonight. I don't have plans for Friday night, but there's plenty going on in this city, I'll try to have a bag packed for 2-3 nights and make it a point to not be home before she leaves for the family day-trip on Sunday, which I plan on spending Sunday-Monday at the lakehouse, so it should work out just fine, and then I'll come back home on Tuesday morning.

Last thing for a while, regarding doodler's comment, she's got something going on. I don't know if it was a PA, or an EA, or both, but that's just part of the problem. I noticed she called 'outbound' last night to the OM that she had LOTS of texts to back in early April. This is an OM that she works with. I've been trying not to watch her phone logs but was still unsure if the EA was continuing or not, so I looked last night. She called him after she left the house screaming and yelling and slamming doors, 3 calls total (two out, one in), all were 2 minutes or less, 2 last night, one this morning at 7:20AM. He's married, or at least was married, may be separated, I don't know to be honest... But, I realize looking at this does NOT help me at all, It's obvious that there is SOMETHING there, and that's all I need to know. I will not look at the bill anymore.

Secondly, every counselor/coach I've talked to said the same thing. She has issues within her that were never resolved and started in childhood. A bi-polar mom, who's side of the family is filled with different types of problems (manic, bipolar, schizophrenia, autism), none on the same people, all spread out through that side of the family. I'm not saying she is any of those things, but growing up in that environment, can cause some damage that carries into adulthood. She also had an abusive ex-boyfriend (the one right before we got together). He physically abused, and cheated on her repetitively. She's the type to hold grudges and she does not know forgiveness. She holds on to these things for too long and has never got professional help for any of these matters.

I know she's going to see her personal therapist next week. I wish she would go every day for the next month, I honestly think it would help HER, and she needs it.

okay, one more... Something tells me I should just ask her directly, when things aren't "on fire", if there is someone else involved. She knows I'm not dumb, she made the calls and texts on our bill where she knows I can find them. It's like she WANTS to get caught...

betterm,

After you've been on this forum for a while you begin to realize that it's very, very rare that there's not an OM somewhere in the background. I think the childhood history and family history often form the predisposition for waywardness (i.e. poor boundaries) and the OM is the catalyst.

Not that any of that makes a difference right now, but it helps to know what you're up against.

That could be.

My husband "left" his wallet on the kitchen counter by my phone after he got back from a trip. (not a normal thing). As he was acting very strange on the phone all weekend and at dinner the night before (no eye contact), I opened it...to find very expensive meal receipts...for two.

Sometimes they need to be "caught" for whatever reason.

So I should confront her about the OM? If she denies it, I won't push, I won't tell her I snooped the phone bill, but it at least allows her the opportunity to consider I already know about it, and I just want her to get it off her chest. Because, if she never comes clean of this, she will never be able to fix herself, and we will never be able to fix 'us'...

Originally Posted By: betterm

So I should confront her about the OM? If she denies it, I won't push, I won't tell her I snooped the phone bill, but it at least allows her the opportunity to consider I already know about it, and I just want her to get it off her chest. Because, if she never comes clean of this, she will never be able to fix herself, and we will never be able to fix 'us'...

It could be that 'inner demon' that's causing her to be so frantic and angry. I know she places "all the blame" on me, and I'm not saying I'm not to blame for some of it, but it doesn't make an A "right". If she never comes clean on that, and even if she tries to save the M, we will forever be "dirty" in her eyes. (I've already thought long and hard about it, I'm already forgiving the action, but will not forgive the lies to cover it up if she so chooses that route).

betterm,

I don't know if you should confront her. The problem that you face is that it may well be an EA and your wife may see the OM as "just a friend." And, that friend is likely "helping" your wife because your wife's husband is a big meanie. So, if you ask you wife, she'll say there is no OM. In her mind there may not be an OM because the OM is just a friend.

You have to remember, this is bizarro world; reality is unreal and logic doesn't apply.

Originally Posted By: doodler

betterm,

I don't know if you should confront her. The problem that you face is that it may well be an EA and your wife may see the OM as "just a friend." And, that friend is likely "helping" your wife because your wife's husband is a big meanie. So, if you ask you wife, she'll say there is no OM. In her mind there may not be an OM because the OM is just a friend.

You have to remember, this is bizarro world; reality is unreal and logic doesn't apply.

Right, I get that 'just-a-friend', and he's married, what's a quickie with another man have to do with an affair? right? haha. My thing is, KNOWING this, is making me think much more strictly about my 'leniancy' of her wishes. I know I should be 'strict' in a nice way, but this is just making me 'not care about anything she says'... maybe that's a good thing. I'm obviously not 'detached' to the point I need to be, I understand that now.

I had fear that her saying "I'm working on me, and I'm only working on me, and I'm just leaving her and our marriage out to dry", was making me think that "detachment" is actually going to kill our M (and maybe her), but I see the process through the clouded fog of my forums posts (and your responses). It's been almost 10 days since my last coaching call, I think I'll setup another one for early next week after the 3-day weekend. It's time to step back and refocus.

I'm reading the "lost art of listening", it's decent. I'm anxious to get started on "the solo partner", as I think that is a little bit more geared to what I need 'right now'.

betterm,

Stepping back and refocusing is probably not a bad idea. Talking to a coach is probably a good thing to do as well.

If I were able to have the opportunity to do my situation over again, then my approach would be different depending on the "stage" of the EA. If I'd caught it early enough, then I think the soft approach may have worked, but in the later stages, I think a sledge hammer would've been best. But, I think my wife was predisposed to having an EA because of childhood sexual abuse (I can explain the whys and wherefores of that if you'd like).

I'm a different person now, so I'm much less tolerant of certain things (i.e. I have better boundaries now).

When you read "solo partner" you should listen to "dancing with myself."

The Solo partner is great!
Start reading it now!!!
Chapter three on reactivity will help you a lot with your wife it sounds like

My current library includes the following:
"The Solo Partner"
"The Verbally Abusive Man. Can he change?"
"Boundaries"

Those are the books I'm reading right now

If things keep progressing as they are my next reads will be
"The Five Love Languages"
"Seven Principles for making Marriage work"

That's down the line for me right now because I'm really learning and focusing on what I did to get out marriage to this point
I've learned to really go by her actions and not her words
Her words continue to be "skeptical"
But her actions are really promising
I'm not bringing that stuff up
Just gonna keep focusing on me and how to make myself better
That's what I can control

...she filed

Ooh, her reason?

How are you holding up? Stay strong!

Originally Posted By: DDJ

Ooh, her reason?
How are you holding up? Stay strong!

No "reason" yet. Since she retained a childhood friend of mine for the D, he contacted me immediately after and said 'I normally don't contact opposing party, but since we are longtime friends blah blah blah". So I guess I get a pre-file heads up, but he said with it being Memorial Day weekend, the formal "file" probably won't happen until Wednesday or Thursday, but it's already in process with their firm... So I guess I got a bit of a head start.

I'm not going to lie to you all, the formality of knowing it's "filed", has me a bit defeated...

Sorry to hear that man!
Just so you know the fact that she filed doesn't mean it's over.
You need to just continue to work on you and keep doing what you need to better yourself. If it saves your M then great, but worse case you come out of this a better person
My first time around here my W filed. Seven months later we were reconciled
Just focus on you

Originally Posted By: betterm

[quote=DDJ]I'm not going to lie to you all, the formality of knowing it's "filed", has me a bit defeated...

betterm,

That was her intent. How do you 180 that?

Originally Posted By: cbtdad

Sorry to hear that man!
Just so you know the fact that she filed doesn't mean it's over.
You need to just continue to work on you and keep doing what you need to better yourself. If it saves your M then great, but worse case you come out of this a better person
My first time around here my W filed. Seven months later we were reconciled
Just focus on you

Thanks for the sympathy...
Did the divorce go final before reconciling?
According to my friend (her lawyer), she wants this done in the least time possible (60 days minimum). I know I can 'drag that out', but likely won't help matters.

She says "she needs the time alone at the house for herself to consider saving the marriage. with me there, she can't think, she can't cry, she's guarded, etc etc." I know not to believe anything coming out of her mouth. But I think this week and next week would be a good time to "Go Dark". Not necessarily tell her I won't be coming home, but just not come home (I'll sneak in here and there to take care of dogs, because she's way to unpredictable to trust with letting the dogs out - I don't want to come back later to pee and poo all over the place)...

Already had plans to go out with brother tonight, I'll stay there. I might just go down to the lake tomorrow instead of sunday, and stay down there to be out-of-site, out-of-mind, and to get her off my mind as well. I still need to detach.

Is the the time to "go dark"?

Questions
1) Did you receive papers?
2)You might not want to leave the house and leave her in it...abandonment sometimes can be called into play. Call your lawyer. She's tried awfully hard to get you out of the house and she has consulted a lawyer.
3)What does that say about what she said yesterday (not wanting a D).
4) And...so? How does her filing change anything? Do you still want to DB this marriage? Do you still want to protect yourself? Is she still acting like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to get her way?

D is a paper. Your marriage is done when you say it is. Do you read other threads on these boards? Consult a D lawyer...know your rights. Then start reading and learning. You are not alone here. Lots a DBers whose S has filed for one reason or another. Your W sounds like it's just another way for her to try to control her sitch, but it could be more. A good DL could ease your mind a bit.

Originally Posted By: doodler

Originally Posted By: betterm

[quote=DDJ]I'm not going to lie to you all, the formality of knowing it's "filed", has me a bit defeated...

betterm,
That was her intent. How do you 180 that?

I know she's doing this to show me "I mean business" (oh yeah, and I just spent $2500 out of our joint, ha!) lol

She even, on the phone after I received the notice (she called), and gave some random bullcrap knowledge drop on "do you know why they changed divorce laws to require a 60 day grace, it's so both parties can really decide if it's what the ywant blah blah blah blah)...

As to "how do I 180 that?" I stay the path I assume. She's trying to get me to give in on the living situation. I don't consider my thoughts of "going dark" giving in to her request, but more of a message saying, "I'm somewhere else and you are not here". I'm open to critique and suggestions of course!!!

Originally Posted By: ciluzen

Questions
2)You might not want to leave the house and leave her in it...abandonment sometimes can be called into play. Call your lawyer. She's tried awfully hard to get you out of the house and she has consulted a lawyer.
3)What does that say about what she said yesterday (not wanting a D).
4) And...so? How does her filing change anything? Do you still want to DB this marriage? Do you still want to protect yourself? Is she still acting like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to get her way?

A good DL could ease your mind a bit.

My DL also serves as a judge in neighboring county. She as good as they come, and she gave me best/worst case scenarios. She's great. I do plan to continue to DB. I have my phone app logging my times at the house, so there is a digital log of me "not abandoning" the property, and I'll sneak in here and there when I know she's gone to keep that log going.

Originally Posted By: betterm

Is the the time to "go dark"?

betterm,

I'm not qualified to answer your question, so certainly don't take anything I say as good advice, but...

Given the circumstances, my gut reaction would be to change the locks on the house and then pack her stuff and put it out front where she can pick it up and haul it off.

I'm sorry; I'm jaded and I'm pretty sure that's not DB, but it sure seems like a good 180 to me.

Stick with me guys... I need to find the 'next gear'

Could also consider going darker as in being less available and more unpredictable, but not quite invisible. Getting out of the house some like you say... but I feel like if you effectively avoid her altogether for 2 weeks and she gets to stay in the house unhindered that may be exactly what she is hoping for (or even better than the time-sharing she was angling for, really).

If you reappear unexpectedly as fits your busy GAL schedule - sometimes there, sometimes spending the night, sometimes not - it may be clearer to her that you are simply moving forward as opposed to wallowing in your tears somewhere as she might like to think.

This^^^.

I can't believe she hired my friend, wtf...
EDF - I think you're right, by my last comment, I wasn't considering that it might look like i've just disappeared/abandoned her at the house. Hell, it might even be worth FINDING a reason to swing by if I know she's there. In, Out, back on my way, it would surely make her wonder wtf I'm doing.

I need to get over the fear that, even though she said to me "everything you're doing is all about you, yeah, great, you're doing just fine, well, I'm glad YOUR doing fine cuz I hate my life right now, but you just go ahead and do what you want"... she doesn't really mean that. I need to stay focused that my GAL has nothing to do with why her life [censored] so bad right now, and that if I quit GAL to 'try to work on things with her', it's really only going to make things worse.

You can't really work with her. She will affect you, but you still control what you do.

Don't be vindictive, don't do things to hurt her, don't be controlling and don't give ultimatums, well you may want to find an ace somewhere for an ultimatum.

Just act as-if it means nothing, you don't have control over it anyway, so fins your strength and

...so find your strength and you will survive.

I like the idea of going "darker"... I will do this, keeping in mind DDJ's words, and make sure I'm not doing anything to further "hurt" the situation, or her.

It will give her unexpected time at the house, alone, to work on herself, we know that she needs to. But I can do so without saying "you can have the house for the next 3 days", etc. It will just be her house, when I'm not there, which will be a lot of the time. I can pop in here and there to take care of the animals, and just make quick stops, long stops, etc, as I please and as fit my GAL schedule.

One question about this, I know if she thinks I will not be staying at the house on any given night, she will sleep in the master bedroom. If I come home at 11pm or whatever, and she's sleeping in the master bedroom, do I continue on my words that I'm sleeping on my half of the bed? Or do I just come home and sleep in the spare if she's already setup for the night in the master?

Your word is your honour. Stick to your decisions, we're here because we could not stand up to our WWs.

What I did so well this past vacation is that I disregarded her entirely. My mother even felt bad for her. Just do the same and make as though you're alone in the house.

Really?!?!?!
I know you're head is spinning and I've certainly been there.
But no........Do not sleep in your half of the bed if she is in MBR. She just filed for D
I don't really know exactly how you should handle it, but I do know by doing that you are asking to make this ugly
She doesn't seem like the type, from what you have described, to just give in to stuff like that.

Originally Posted By: cbtdad

But no........Do not sleep in your half of the bed if she is in MBR. She just filed for D
I don't really know exactly how you should handle it, but I do know by doing that you are asking to make this ugly
She doesn't seem like the type, from what you have described, to just give in to stuff like that.

I'm still very new to this myself, but I guess I don't see why him following through on his stated expectation - to not be bullied out of his house or bullied out of the MBR - would be a bad thing?

Sure, if a husband saw she snuck into the MBR and he climbs into the bed and goes in for a snuggle or hoping for intimacy, that would obviously be bad.

But if he lets her indirectly kick him out of the MBR simply because she got there first on a given night, what message does that send? How will she act in the future once she knows that simply getting to the MBR first makes it hers and he will back down?

She may not like it, but as before if she is uncomfortable with the sleeping arrangement she is welcome to move to a different room, or stay with her parents, etc.

Like you, even though I am leaning a certain way, I'm not sure the best way to handle it. Is there some "softer touch" approach where he manages expectations by telling her in advance he's not sure when/what time he'll be home but he will be sleeping in the MBR when he gets there? Or something like that to help avoid a blowout?

It's about tough love really and standing your man.

Originally Posted By: DDJ

It's about tough love really and standing your man.

Ah, cooler heads prevail. Is it any wonder that I'm not a DB coach?

Originally Posted By: EDF

Is there some "softer touch" approach where he manages expectations by telling her in advance he's not sure when/what time he'll be home but he will be sleeping in the MBR when he gets there? Or something like that to help avoid a blowout?

I don't see any way for a "softer touch" in this situation. I've tried the "what would it take for you to consider...xyz" approach (recommended by DB coach) and it's always a not good response and ends with her raging about something completely unrelated to the topic.

I think that if I'm there, and she's not, I'll take the master, but if I'm not there and come home late, I'll sleep in the spare bedroom. I don't know if this is "right", but as another stated on here, climbing into bed with her, even with no intentions of intimacy, would only fuel the fire. In a good way? bad way? I don't know. If someone has more theory behind this, I'm all ears. Pretending shes "just not there at all" and "I'm alone" in the house would imply that I should climb into my half of the master bed... but that just seems like asking for trouble.

If i do come home later and she's in the spare bedroom, I will be absolutely flabbergasted, but I just don't see that happening. I want to give her the space she requested/needs, so she can think, cry, yell to no one, slam things around, whatever she 'needs to do' in that house alone, but I don't want to give her the "win" of me saying 'you can have the house for the next 3 days'.

I plan to be very vague, very consumed, and very mysterious, but not to the point where it causes any trust issues. (she already has enough of them that carried over from past relationships).

Originally Posted By: betterm

Pretending shes "just not there at all" and "I'm alone" in the house would imply that I should climb into my half of the master bed... but that just seems like asking for trouble.

So are you afraid of what she will say? That will be on her, if she starts to spew anger what will you do?

Originally Posted By: JimKao

So are you afraid of what she will say? That will be on her, if she starts to spew anger what will you do?

I'm assuming you mean, if I lay in bed with her, on my side, and she sits up and starts spewing angry comments at me? Options are limited, I can validate first, which seems to not work, because then she just goes on to something else, raises voices, and starts yelling about the entire kitchen sink, then I can choose to lay there and ignore it, tell her that while I'm home I'll be sleeping here in this master bed and she has the choice to stay in bed or move to another room. I can leave the situation completely and go to another room myself, or leave the house all together, or I can knock her out with chloroform and go to sleep peacefully.

None of which seem like anything good will come of them.

I feel like the "right" thing, would be to tell her that 'while i'm here I'm staying in this bed when I sleep", and I know that it won't be taken well, but that seems like the "right" thing to do for ME, which is what I should be focusing on anyways.

Betterm, take a big step back. Real big. Now look at what we're debating here. A freaking bed.

Get in, stay out. Lol

Umm, Get in, Stay out!? I'm SO CONFUSED!!!

You're still doing it. If you don't know what you want, how can you expect her to too? Rhetorical question.

(sorry, that was a joke)

I know what I want, and yes, you're right, I fear how she'll respond to it. Her complaint was "in the same house together, regardless of rooms, open/closed doors, etc"... so it's all the same, whether I'm sleeping downstairs next to the furnace, or 10 inches away from her in the same bad, right!? HA. I know what I'm going to do, and I can't control the response.

betterm,

I know what you're thinking...you're going to wait until she falls asleep and then you're going to draw a mustache on her.

So her lawyer contacted me again and said if I'd like to hear her side of what 'she wants', to get the financial disclosure papers back to him so they can discuss (he said she won't get much, due to short term marriage, and our having no assets and all debts to our name.)

Is the best process here to return the papers asap and say here ya go, as in "I see your two pair, and I'm not scared". Or do I drag out every single request for as long as possible to try and extend everything single I have control over?

Originally Posted By: betterm

So her lawyer contacted me again and said if I'd like to hear her side of what 'she wants', to get the financial disclosure papers back to him so they can discuss (he said she won't get much, due to short term marriage, and our having no assets and all debts to our name.)

Is the best process here to return the papers asap and say here ya go, as in "I see your two pair, and I'm not scared". Or do I drag out every single request for as long as possible to try and extend everything single I have control over?

Since there's no "formal filing yet, and I'm going to have to fill out those documents regardless, I feel like holding back and prolonging the financial disclosure document shows weakness and my uncertainty of the situation. I do WANT to save the marriage, but I don't think holding off on the financial papers (especially considering we don't have much), is doing any good... thoughts?

Sleep on it, do it on your time frame. Stop analyzing what may happen if you fill them out sooner or later.

If you are anything like me and overanalyze every choice or decision and your W is someone who takes action then maybe a small 180 would be to fill it out as quickly as possible. Not saying this is what you should do but it may jolt her a bit.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it means anything, her attorney can still file without the financial disclosure filled out and signed, and then I'm just forced to fill it out as part of the discovery process. I'm definitely going to sleep on it, but I filled 75% of it out today, and will probably go ahead and complete it tomorrow with an email to follow saying something like "here's the logins for the bank accounts - for full transparency, like you asked", and I've attached the financial discovery papers so you can go ahead and start your filing process". Because I am the one to overanalyze everything, and I think it'd be shocking to her to see that I did it, overnight (it's a pain in the butt, I'm sure you all know), and I'm ready to get on with this thing! H3ll, it's even shocking me a little bit thinking about it.

... she called me again today looking for something in the house, and in the process brought up the 60 day timeframe again, mentioning, "we have 60 days to get better and stop this, otherwise we have failed in our marriage, something that will live with us forever"... I'm not "reading into it"... but wtf? frickin' wacko! lol

So clearly your wife if controlling and manipulative as well
And she uses that to try and get what she wants
Problem is she doesn't know what she wants
She just is just angry right now
Which is why I said I wouldn't go into the MBR
Like I said I don't have the answer
But if I was you I would repeat back to her what she said and use that to try and go to MC again
Because it really seems like y'all need some communication help

True cbtdad. She is showing weakness by bringing up the crumbling M. IT MAY ALSO BE TO HOOK YOU!

If you do not follow through on her request then you show her that you have a place in your heart for her, even though she is wayward. It will show an acceptance for her behaviour, and very little tough love.

I would not drag out the D process, but i would let her initiate everything. She wants it, then she can do he hard work. Sit back and relax. You have 60 days to save yourself.

I already sent the email for "banking transparency" to her and cc'd her attorney: it includes all financial account logins and passwords, even the two new ones I created this week in my name only".

the email stated something like "here is the financial transparency that we talked about, it includes all logins to old, and new bank accounts for her to view/monitor if she chooses. I'll have the financial verification document finished and sent over in a few hours so you can start the filing process."

(I enabled text verification for all transfers from account to account on the new ones - which is where direct deposit is now going).

I think she'll be shocked when she receives/reads the email. If she's not, no harm done, and it's just another step in the process. But I'm sure she was thinking I would take as long as possible to do this (I think legally it's 45 days once filed.) And as much as I want to save this, if I can't do it, or if she's not willing to try with me, 60 days should be all I need. and if I change my mind, I can always drag it out by disagreeing terms.

Remember to do it without concern for her, IOW don't drag just to be nasty. Only if you are unhappy with terms.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Originally Posted By: betterm

Is the best process here to return the papers asap and say here ya go, as in "I see your two pair, and I'm not scared". Or do I drag out every single request for as long as possible to try and extend everything single I have control over?

The best process is to do what is best for you. If you have time, fill them out. I dont see any reason to "drag things out", but I also dont see a reason that you need to jump on everything immediately.

Stop trying to get a reaction.

Originally Posted By: betterm

"we have 60 days to get better and stop this, otherwise we have failed in our marriage, something that will live with us forever"

Garbage.

Theres no laws that say you cant get remarried. You have 60 days until the government recognizes your separation.

You have the rest of your lives to determine if you should be together.

Originally Posted By: darknes

You have the rest of your lives to determine if you should be together.

I love this darknes. I am practicing patience myself, even though it might not seem that way. With hard work I will get there.

Well said, darkness. As has been said before on these boards, your marriage is not over until you say it is. D is just a piece of paper.

betterm,

I'm a big believer in helping the WW toward her goals because it seems to be a faster path to the realization that the fantasy is incongruent with reality and it's not what's expected from you.

Check out LiM's thread if you get a chance. His situation was a little different, but he's got a lot of good info on his thread.

I'm also a big believer in drawing mustaches on sleeping WWs.

Originally Posted By: doodler

betterm,

I'm a big believer in helping the WW toward her goals because it seems to be a faster path to the realization that the fantasy is incongruent with reality and it's not what's expected from you.

Check out LiM's thread if you get a chance. His situation was a little different, but he's got a lot of good info on his thread.

I'm also a big believer in drawing mustaches on sleeping WWs.

Trust me doodler, before this is all over with...
THERE WILL BE MUSTACHE!

YES!!!

I was filling out the financial disclosure paperwork and stumbled across her cars mileage. I texted her to send it over to me if she gets a second on her lunch break so I could complete this back to <attorney> today.

And she replied "can we just take a second to talk about all this? tomorrow? tonight even?" I told her "Every time we try to "talk" emotions take over and it never ends well; I don't want to fight or argue with you anymore." (it's always one-way, but didn't mention that)... She replied, "I know, but I (we) need to talk, so we (me) needs to really try to control those emotions so we can. I told her "If you want to talk, and you are really ready to talk to me, I certainly will not refuse the opportunity to do so."

I'm on the fence on my response, and the talk, in general. I felt since SHE initiated she wants to talk, and that she knows SHE is the one that needs to control the emotions (that's been rare so far), I did not want to turn her down. I just need to prepare to lay boundaries if things get elevated.

betterm,

I was hoping one of the veterans would swing by and tell you how you should respond. I'd give you some suggestions, but all of my advice seems to run along the lines of, "Box up her $hit and kick her @ss out." That's probably not the advice you need and very likely why my wife boxed her $hit up and moved her @ss out.

I suck at DB, but apparently I'm good at giving bad DB advice. I should write a book...

Do you want to save your M?
Is so do not feel badly about your response
But if I was you I would say something like, "it's encouraging to me that you do want to discuss these things. However it's clear that both of our emotions are running really high. I think it would be best that if we just try and be friendly to each other and maybe try to have these talks with a professional like a marriage counselor"
I'm not saying that's the only response but it is a suggestion

I actually feel good about my response to her. However, I am a bit skeptical of her intentions, which I know not to 'read into.'

cbt - I think that's a great approach actually. She's been texting tidbits of 'my mind is lost', 'everything is so hard for both of us', and even 'we have both done this to us, it can't be all your fault' ...

I'm staying vague in my responses and just responding back knowing that "I hear you, I'm present, I'm validating". I don't think sending this "MC Request" over text is the right thing to do though. I feel like she wants to see me face to face, for whatever reason. I'm thinking of using her words the few nights leading up to her retaining the attorney of "i don't want divorce, I don't know what I want, I'm bad and forth, I'm just so mad at everything, some days are good, some are bad", etc. and combining it with cbt's approach to get that MC request out BEFORE things get back (if/when it does get bad). And tell her I've already contacted a new, female MC if she's willing to considering going back to MC for a few more sessions...(she didn't like the man we had before, and partially why she refused to go back, but at the time was too angry to agree to a different MC),

I can tell the tensions rising on her end with the increased texting, and the content of her texting. I don't like the "build-up" to this already... maybe it would be a better idea to mention something about the tension/emotions and offer to have the conversation in front of an MC instead... I feel like that would be backing out on her (even though with good intentions) when she's asking for something so directly (to talk)... In the past I've backed out a lot, or ignored her requests... I think my "180" is to meet, and get my request out, sincerely, before she gets fired up. but if texts keep coming in getting more and more serious... hm, I have one hour til I'm off work...

You both have to like the MC or it won't work
So that's a good move
I know in my current situation I've taken the approach of just being friends with the W. I haven't pushed for "time together" or instigated sex
I'm just working on myself and being friends with my W again.
A few weeks ago I told myself absolutely no R talk outside MC office and I have stuck to that except for maybe one or two times before I caught myself
My situation is all about time
It's about showing real changes so I'm just being patient
Remember it's a marathon not a sprint
You and her don't need to rush anything

I gently reminded her about how she said we shouldn't be texting our marriage matters, and she replied promptly, you're right, thank you.

betterm,

I'm trying to think like a DB coach (notice, no mention of boxes). I think a DB coach would ask, "What kind of response would she normally expect from you?" Then do the opposite.

Or maybe get some boxes and a permanent marker for the mustache. Don't forget packing tape.

She's knows that I want to start talking to her face-to-face against, but she's afraid of doing so (words of coaches) because she's so fearful of everything repeating itself. The opposite of what I'd do to get what "I" want, would be to not meet her tonight, and say if you want to talk, we should do it in counseling. If we meet and I don't push my wants on her, (in the past), its just ended in her spinning out of control and bringing up all the issues of the past. If I push my wants on her, she will see it as me trying to convince her of something...

I left a VM for the MC to call me back with first available scheduling, but with a long holiday weekend ahead, I don't expect a call back until Wed or Thur. I know, no rush, but my friend (her attorney) said they are filing formally on Tuesday, Wednesday morning at the latest. Not the end of the world, but it would be better if we could avoid the filing all together with intentions of going to MC a few times before it ever happens. It's all speculative... this way, that way, and all outcomes are probably the same in the end, I'm just thinking out loud at this point.

betterm,

I understand; it's the rock and hard place thingy. Thus, the name of my thread "conundrum." I wish I could offer up some good advice, but right now I'm caught up in boxes and mustaches (i.e. I'm useless).

I hope you can get some good help. I'm heading out to buy some plants. If I think of anything I'll let you know.

We clearly love these women, why else would we go through all of this stuff? Arrrrgghhhh...

Originally Posted By: cbtdad

My situation is all about time
It's about showing real changes so I'm just being patient

I'm not sure my W is to the point of "looking for changes", she's still in the roller coaster realm and barely reaching the "trying to understand" phase...
My "changes" thus far have been viewed by her as selfish

Please start a new thread.

New Thread:

Re: ...start of something new??? pt5