Focus on Me and my boys 2 - DivorceBusting.com

Old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2680350#Post2680350

Old Threads:

Focus on Me and my boys

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...923#Post2679923

Headed for D - Trying to move on

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...991#Post2673991

WW and I headed for D - no reconciliation

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...272#Post2669272

WW hope to reconcile

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...563#Post2664563

My 180 proposal WAW

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...647#Post2650647

WAW hope to reconcile

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...344#Post2640344

Summary of my sitch:

Nov 2014
W says she is not happy wants to move back to Toronto.
March 2015 we adopt 4th son.
May 2015
W buys a new house in Toronto under her name, we make plans to move.
June 2015 we adopt 5th son.
July 2015
W goes out to dinner with guys she met the two nights before with close family female friend in Toronto. Did not really think much of it at this time. Was upset but kept moving along.
July 2015
ILYBNILY
August 2015
Family vacation is a bust, lots of begging, pleading, crying on my part.
Fall of 2015
Constant arguing and unhappiness by W, becomes distant with me and I try to do everything to make her happy.
Oct 2015
I ask for transfer with work to move to Toronto, progress is slow on transfer.
W says she wants to move with the boys in January for them to start school, we make plans and get a condo, house will be ready for move in November 2016.
Nov 30 2015
Huge argument over nothing and W takes clothes and goes back to parents in Toronto.
Dec 8th 2015
I file for D, emotions and anger got the best of me. W gets upset and says will never forgive me. W starts to go on online dating websites within 2 weeks. Starts GALing like crazy in Toronto. Lots of NC, blocks me from knowing anything she is doing.
Dec 2015
I find DB and start to do 180s.
Feb 2016
W says she wants to reconcile. We go to 1 MC and each go to 1 IC. W says it's not working. Keeps asking when we are unfiling and selling house.
March 2016
House is sold, transfer in progress. I ask W if she is still dating she says yes. Tell her I will not be in an open marriage and stop my transfer.
April 2016
W files for D.
High conflict custody D begins.
Nesting plan in place for boys.
May 2016
Lose in court with buyers to rescind sale of home.
Move out date is June 3rd 2016.
Pysch evals in progress.
Apartment located to move in with boys and continue nesting plan.

W still feels her job is to be a SAHM. Says MIL is buying her the new house in Toronto. W wants us to co-parent in Toronto and be friends.

I am still conflicted on what to do. Feel better about myself and who I am. I know I can survive in Michigan raising my boys. Still want my WW but I know she has not hit rock bottom.

Two options:

Option 1: Accept her terms and co-parent in Toronto, let her keep the house there and build friendship with a very slim chance of getting back together.

Option 2: Stand my ground and move forward. Focus on me and my boys. Continue to spend 10s of thousands on D.

So this morning's exchange was pleasant from my end. I said hello to her and she said nothing.
I asked her how her doctor's appointment was yesterday and she said ok. I asked if they found anything wrong and she said no.

W has lost a lot of weight, was all dressed up this morning in linen pants and a nice t shirt. clothes that I bought her. Make up was done also.

I said I needed to finish making the boys lunch and that I would leave after that. She asked if it was ok to go up to the MBR to sleep for an hour, I said of course.

I then went and kissed my boys goodbye as they were up and getting dressed and reading books.

Why do I feel so selfish in all of this?

I recognize my failures and accept them but cannot let go of my fear of moving up to Toronto and co-parenting there. It is not what I want. I want to be up there with STBX under the same roof with our 5 boys all as a family.

Throughout this whole year and a half W has done what she has said. Her actions follow her words. I have been the one who has been inconsistent because I have always followed her lead and tried to be supportive. Now that I have put the brakes on things with respect to the family she is reacting to hurt me. We have continued to do this for the last 6 months to each other. This is not healthy.

Now I don't react at all to STBX, I just react to what L advises and live my life with my boys. Just received another bill form L for $10K. Well there goes my bank account.

Hey sorry your going through this.

You have to look out for your self right now.

STBX sends me some texts about S6. We have friendly exchange on how to address issues with him and agree.

Next set of texts:

W: When do you move to the new place? Closing is next Friday...

Me: June 1st. Citation Club. 3 bedroom.

W: OK. So moving the 2nd? Are we putting most of the stuff in storage?

Me: Yes and yes.

W: The movers are insured and reputable? I'm assuming they're going to be packing as well?

Me: Will send info when plans are finalized.

W: I will need the name of the movers and storage facility when you get a chance please. Also Monday is a holiday. Are you working or will you be home with the kids?

Me: I will be home Monday.

W: And can you be home this Friday to get the kids off the bus at 430?

I did not answer the last question. Again, this is the third weekend that is not hers that she wants me home before the boys get off the bus.

How does this show that she wants custody of the boys?

Her last text: OK thanks. I just need to know dates to book for the hotel next week.

Would appreciate any comments from LBS wives.
I probably need some 2x4s.
In my heart I want to allow her to raise the boys but I still feel if I move up there I am enabling bad behavior on her part.

What's best for the children? Are they established socially where you live? Will you be able to provide for them similarly? How will you enforce a US custody order in Canada? Can she use the Canadian system to push you out of the picture?

Many, many questions.

I don't think you should let her dictate where you live when she is the one who wants to move and not as your wife. I think you'll regret it, the way you regret losing your home because she tricked you and worked with the buyers to sue you.

Painter,

Best for the children: I wish I could answer this one, this will be based off of the psych eval. Difficult to decide based on how quickly our family was growing and how rigid STBX was with the boys schedule and how busy I was at work.

Socially established: She never took them anywhere other than the gym. They now have to move to a new school next fall so they are losing all their friends at the current school.
They have 5 cousins in Michigan and one cousin in Toronto.

I can provide similarly here in Michigan. In Toronto, I am sure it will be the same since MIL will help with the new house.

I did some research for Ontario, Canada. Always favors SAHM. Canadian courts typically support decisions made out of their jurisdiction unless there is a compelling reason to change.

The only difference between Canadian system and Michigan is spousal support. Most likely she would get spousal support her whole life or until she remarries. In Michigan, spousal support would most likely be for a short time since we are married less than 10 years.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Throughout this whole year and a half W has done what she has said. Her actions follow her words. I have been the one who has been inconsistent because I have always followed her lead and tried to be supportive. Now that I have put the brakes on things with respect to the family she is reacting to hurt me. We have continued to do this for the last 6 months to each other. This is not healthy.

JimKao - I've found my W acting similarly - trying to be nice, open and transparent and wanting to work together (but still know she's being selective in what she shares). So when I act distant or aloof, I feel guilty - perfect example was last night, I got home she was in a good mood talking to family and I was just going about my business choosing not to be a part of the conversation.

I don't know if I have a right answer here, part of me reminds me that she put herself in this mess, part of the hope in me wants to engage and remind her she has a H.

Just received message from London. We has filed motion to change parenting schedule. Let does not think judge will approve and is also going to talk to psychologist. Geez!

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Painter,

Best for the children: I wish I could answer this one, this will be based off of the psych eval. Difficult to decide based on how quickly our family was growing and how rigid STBX was with the boys schedule and how busy I was at work.

Life will be different in a split household and you need to have an opinion on this based on your insight as a parent.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Socially established: She never took them anywhere other than the gym. They now have to move to a new school next fall so they are losing all their friends at the current school.
They have 5 cousins in Michigan and one cousin in Toronto.

I'm confused. You say they now have to move to a new school - is that in Michigan they are changing schools? Or are you using language as if you have already lost and they will move to Canada?

Because if you are talking as if you have already lost and WW has won, you should be careful with that. Using language that describes the result you do not want, shapes the outcome. If you have already decided to give in, why are you spending 10k on a L? Sorry for the 2x4 but you sound defeated and you need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps here if you want to keep the boys where they are.

Obviously, your kids are socially established with school and family, so that's a NO TO MOVING.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

I can provide similarly here in Michigan. In Toronto, I am sure it will be the same since MIL will help with the new house.

Similarly to what in Michigan? I asked - can you get the same type of job with the same income in Canada? Grandparents have no support obligation and is not included in these considerations. So NO TO MOVING.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

I did some research for Ontario, Canada. Always favors SAHM. Canadian courts typically support decisions made out of their jurisdiction unless there is a compelling reason to change.

The only difference between Canadian system and Michigan is spousal support. Most likely she would get spousal support her whole life or until she remarries. In Michigan, spousal support would most likely be for a short time since we are married less than 10 years.

So more compelling reason for NO TO MOVING.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Painter,

Best for the children: I wish I could answer this one, this will be based off of the psych eval. Difficult to decide based on how quickly our family was growing and how rigid STBX was with the boys schedule and how busy I was at work.

Originally Posted By: Painter

Life will be different in a split household and you need to have an opinion on this based on your insight as a parent.

Yes it will be different. Much more difficult for a parent to manage but I have a plan for assistance and taking care of my boys.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Socially established: She never took them anywhere other than the gym. They now have to move to a new school next fall so they are losing all their friends at the current school.
They have 5 cousins in Michigan and one cousin in Toronto.

Originally Posted By: Painter

I'm confused. You say they now have to move to a new school - is that in Michigan they are changing schools? Or are you using language as if you have already lost and they will move to Canada?

Yes they will have to move to a new school either in Michigan or Canada because the marital home in Michigan is sold and I will have to find a new home closer to my family which will be better for the boys and myself in the long run. Better school system where I am considering moving.

Originally Posted By: Painter

Because if you are talking as if you have already lost and WW has won, you should be careful with that. Using language that describes the result you do not want, shapes the outcome. If you have already decided to give in, why are you spending 10k on a L? Sorry for the 2x4 but you sound defeated and you need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps here if you want to keep the boys where they are.

Obviously, your kids are socially established with school and family, so that's a NO TO MOVING.

I am protecting my boys and me since she wants out of the MR.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

I can provide similarly here in Michigan. In Toronto, I am sure it will be the same since MIL will help with the new house.

Originally Posted By: Painter

Similarly to what in Michigan? I asked - can you get the same type of job with the same income in Canada? Grandparents have no support obligation and is not included in these considerations. So NO TO MOVING.

Yes I can have the same pay in US dollars if I move to Canada and equal position within my company. Cost of living is 25% higher in Toronto.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

I did some research for Ontario, Canada. Always favors SAHM. Canadian courts typically support decisions made out of their jurisdiction unless there is a compelling reason to change.

The only difference between Canadian system and Michigan is spousal support. Most likely she would get spousal support her whole life or until she remarries. In Michigan, spousal support would most likely be for a short time since we are married less than 10 years.

Originally Posted By: Painter

So more compelling reason for NO TO MOVING.

Yes agree.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Just received message from London. We has filed motion to change parenting schedule. Let does not think judge will approve and is also going to talk to psychologist. Geez!

Sorry this should have said L not London. LOL!

No brainer, stay in Michigan, don't move to Toronto.

Well just checked my checking account and savings.

By the time I pay L fees and credit card this month my family will have about $2K in the bank account. Still have to put money down for apartment and June 3rd all the money from the house goes into escrow.

I am so upset that we are burning all this money on Ls. My STBX kept saying lets work this out but it was only on her terms.

I am so numb to this whole thing. Feel like I am losing and putting my family into poverty. Please God I pray that you will keep my boys safe and they will have a roof over their head that I can provide no matter where they live.

Jim, is she paying for her own L or are her parents?

It sounds like it is a very, very expensive process. I hope you are not being taken advantage of by your L.

No money for her L is coming out of our joint account.

Well, signed the lease on the apartment. Now just have to get movers.

Big things going on next week.

Wed STBX and I have to go to court since she filed motion to take boys to Toronto for the summer and me visit every other weekend.

Thurs - Move into new place

Friday - Forced to sign and sell marital home.

I hope I can make through this turmoil.

JimKao:

Good luck with the new place - I hope it will be full of positive energy. Yes, you can make it through this turmoil.

BTW - I'm in Toronto so if you come into town early for one of your visit, etc I'd love connect with you and put a face to the handle.

bigybiz,

Sounds good. Will definitely let you know next time I am there!

So tomorrow afternoon S6 graduates from Kindergarten.

STBX sends text today asking if I am going and taking a guest?
I respond with I plan on going.

I plan on sitting next to STBX only because S6 has been very affected by the D so I want to make sure he ends the day on a positive note.

STBX will also be happy because she will get to leave and go back to Toronto early. She wants me home at 145 to exchange cars so she can just leave from S6's school at 4pm. Wow!

Guess we will see how things play out tomorrow and I will have to react accordingly. This will be the first time we are together for more than 5 minutes (well outside of court) since we had lunch as a family at the end of March.

JimKao: Let me know if you need any local insights. Feel free to ask me about neighbourhoods, schools, driving distances, etc. I've not been able to make the chat feature of this site work. Have you?

Jim
Live in the moment for what it is. Wife shouldn't even be the focus.

Well the K graduation was fun.

S6 always has a smile when he sees mom. I question when I see things like this if I am doing the right thing. He is not as happy as often with me. Not going to read into it though.

STBX wanted to exchange cars half way through the graduation. I politely said no.

STBX had a sour look on her face unless she was interacting with S6, S4 or S2. The only way that she will be happy is if I give her everything she wants.

She is so confident that she will get custody.
I am trying very hard to stay strong.
So many things to pack.

I was cheerful the whole time with the boys and STBX.
There seems to be no remorse on her end.

All I know is that if she does get custody I am moving to Toronto to have them 50% of the time.

H3ll I would even consider moving up there if I received custody of the boys just so they can be closer to their mom. But not until after the D is done so I knew where I stood financially.

Still have hope that she will wake up one day but that hope is dwindling fast. I know I know, not good DBing.

I don't think that she will ever forgive me for filing first.

I wish we could connect again. The only hope there is for that is to move up there and continue to DB but she will be cake eating big time by getting to play mom.

So far the weekend has been rough.

We did some grocery shopping yesterday.
Boys and I played outside yesterday throwing the football and playing some soccer.
We also spent some time with the neighbors yesterday evening.

I still have thoughts of WW and cannot understand why she doesn't want to be here with her boys. We are no longer friends which really hurts me. She has crushed my heart but I will always love her no matter what her actions are. As much as the DB coaches have told me to rebuild the friendship with her I don't know how.

I really don't know if I am doing the right thing or not. Am I the one being unreasonable now when we had plans to move back to Toronto and ruined them because of a silly argument and then me filing for D first which spun this into a huge mess?

This has driven so many changes since I was too nice and thought she wanted to reconcile. I hope the judge and psychologist can see the manipulation she has been using. This is going to be very difficult as a single dad and 5 boys.

Going to take the boys to see my parents today and try and finish some paperwork for the psychologist.

I think it takes time and space away from the one who has caused such a depth of pain for the betrayed spouse and the children. When the pain is still so raw, I think it is not realistic in believing they could be friends during the rougest time of their relationship. Their M has been ripped apart and there are unresolved issues that continue to cause a lot of pain and anguish. How does one be friends with a person they see causing their own children so much pain?

IMHO, the couple in a situation like your's, Jim, has to remain apart and get out of each other's lives (except for kid related) for a period of time, before they can consider being friends.

Again, I believe people see the term "friends" with various definitions. My picture of friendship may not be what you visualize. After a couple divorces, and especially if one should get M to someone else........the most realistice type of positive relationship would be "friendly", but they would not have a friend-ship. They would not hang out together and go places together and share family events together. A divorce, IMHO, stops this type of relationship. Why else would they divorce. So one of them could be free to date?

Anyway, I guess I have to agree to disagree about friendships with a wayward. That would require the betrayed spouse to compromise too much self respect and integrity, I think.

But this is just MHO.

Hi Jim. I'm just checking in to say hello and to tell you that I'm thinking of you and to thank you for your kind words to me.

I am so sorry that things have worked out the way they have for you. Being a single parent is beyond difficult, especially when you really don't understand how you really go to that point. I don't understand how I got here, either.

Take care and enjoy those wonderful children of yours.

(((Jim)))

Sandi,

I get what you are saying. When I saw her on Friday all I wanted to do was hug her and touch her. Yes, I am a nice guy and liked taking care of her and let that go too far. I should have been more of a dominant H but still listened to her needs.

I have been friendly with her but she has not been friendly back. She just wants this whole thing over with as quickly as possible.

I don't know if reality will ever sink in with her.
I feel I am fighting a losing battle with this D since MIL is supporting WW as a SAHM.

I agree that my self respect and integrity would be completely compromised if I pursued her and gave in to what she wanted.

I guess we will see what happens by the end of the D proceedings.

All I know is that I can face her family with a clean conscience and know that I was not the one who had an A even though WW justifies it in her head that she is no longer in an M.

Phoebe,

Thank you for checking in. Going to take the boys for a drive now and see my parents to get out of the house a bit.

I hope everyone enjoys the rest of their day.

You are doing well in the face of such adversity.
2 sayings come to mind.
If you are going through he//, keep going.
If it does not kill you, it will make you stronger.

I am here supporting you and wanted to pop in and tell you I think you are doing well in spite of the crazy from the WAW and the challenge of being a great father for those 5 lil ones.

Do something good for yourself today. The whole put on your oxygen mask first thing so you can take care of the family second. You deserve a little distraction.

Be well my brother, be well this day.

Sadhub,

Thank you again for the support and kind words.

Maybe I am the crazy one, I think about the D and no matter what the outcome, I will end up in Toronto.

Version 1: She get custody and I move up there to be closer to my boys.

Version 2: I get custody and I move up there so my boys can be closer to their mom. I am also thinking of doing this to show her and MIL that I am not the monster they make me out to be.

Of course on was on this path to move back in March but the fact that I found out about her weekend with OM just made me react to stay in Michigan. Had I been stronger and more confident of myself at the time maybe it would have been a more positive outcome for the family. I definitely did not want to be in an open marriage.

I have to go through with this D and see what the outcome is and then take stock from their to do what is best for me and my boys.

I wanted the same things she wanted and it is a shame we were spinning out of control as a couple.

Still waking up abruptly in the mornings but sleep better when I have my time with the boys. I hope to be the lighthouse for her one day.

Quote:

Version 2: I get custody and I move up there so my boys can be closer to their mom. I am also thinking of doing this to show her and MIL that I am not the monster they make me out to be.

Jim, I lived many years of my life trying to win the approval of my in-laws, especially my MIL. Whenever this happens, you become a prisoner to how they see things, how they feel, what they think you should do, what they like or don't like, and most of all........you are trying to prove your own self value to someone who has already made up their minds they will not accept the truth where you are concerned.

I think I know from experience how important it feels to you right now, b/c my mother tried to tell me I was trying to win my in-laws approval. I continued, to no avail. After my kids were grown, and my M had suffered greatly from problems with my MIL's influence and intrusions, I decided to detach from her emotionally. I realized, finally, she did not decide my value. I stopped trying to be the ideal daughter-in-law that any woman would be a fool not to want. It was no longer worth it to me. I saw she was never going to believe I was good enough for her son, or to accept me the way I had hoped.

I still visited her and never forsake my H's mother. I even sat through nights with her when she was dying. However, I was free from the entrapment I had previously experienced. I had made peace and forgiven her, even though she never admitted wrong or apologized for anything.

I have learned though other experiences with people, that they are going to think what they WANT to think about me. My job is to live my life as honest and right as I see fit, but I will not fall prey in living my life to win the approval of someone who doesn't even like me........much less, love me!

Sandi,

By no means am I looking for approval from my in laws. I am a kind, caring and giving person. That is why my WW fell in love with me.

As I stated before, I am remorseful for my actions. It is on them to forgive and if they can't too bad for them. They are the ones who need to grow up and become adults.

I respect that she cares for her daughter and wants what is best for her but for a MIL to say it is OK to ruin an M and not try to see how this is affecting and attempt to reconcile for the sake of the boys is ridiculous.

Maybe their reality will kick in when the D is final, who knows?

I am not the type of person to tell people "I told you so" but my WW is.

She will continue to get support from her family and live off of the money that her family will give her and whatever she gets from the D. I can't control or stop that.

I just want to see my boys happy and watch them grow.
The decision to move there would be mine and solely mine without influence from someone who does not want to be in an M.

Sandi,

Also when I look back at things WW did it was all a reaction to my actions. IDK, maybe she is a narcissistic sociopath to some level. Her actions lately have not shown that she has the best interest of the boys. Every weekend that is mine she asks me to come home early so she can drive back to Toronto at a decent time.

Somehow I think she is following your 37 rules better than me, especially NC. Again she is a woman of action and goes and does things. She wants to do activities with the boys also but without the responsibility of working. That is the messed up part. Simple solutions for this family would be for her to forgive me and us work on getting us up to Toronto and committing to a plan but she does not want to even discuss this with anyone.

We have some friends that live in Toronto also and I gave WW a package to give them and she won't even respond to their texts so that they can go pick up the package. She has made a new world for herself.

So did the exchange this morning with STBX.

We were friendly.

STBX meets with psychologist tomorrow with boys. I get keys to new apartment and have court in the morning to defend her motion to take the boys to Toronto.

I am so lost as to how to even get to be friendly with STBX. I am not mad, don't hate her still love her. I don't understand why she can't forgive and why she would go date OMs. I wish STBX and I could go back to what she wanted which was a separation.

I can't control if MIL helps and enables STBX with the new house to live in with the boys. I feel if I can't gain any of the equity in the home in Canada that I should just give up and let the boys move in with her.

Instead of things being positive in STBX's eyes all I have done was do the opposite of what she wants.

She wanted me to pursue her, she wanted me to quit smoking (almost there), she wanted me to be less angry which we have not had an argument in months mostly because of NC.

Please help, need 2x4s if I am not going down the right path.

Am I just blind with the wanting to accept that she is truly narcissistic?

Quote:

I don't understand why she can't forgive and why she would go date OMs.

I doubt you will ever understand it, Jim. You have got to let it go.

Sandi,

In your motto you say doing the work that gets the right results. I read that as getting the right results for me and becoming the best me I can be. That does not mean it will save my M. Is that what you mean?

Because for me that would mean do the improvements that STBX wanted and have her raise the boys and have no expectations she will come back.

So STBX tells me that movers need two trucks and will not be able to move furniture out in time by Friday.

She has done nothing to help coordinate any of this. She keeps saying I told you this was coming.

I am so angry with her. She does nothing and puts all the work on me. The only action she is taking is making this D more difficult. She says she wants nothing to do with me.

Great!

I so want to tell my boys that she has gone away with an OM but I know I cannot put that emotional trauma on them.

This is just insane!

Had to leave work. Can't function or thinks straight.

She is putting all of the burden on me. How does someone exist like this in this world!

It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

What I meant is that DBing is not doing what most people think or feel one does to get positive results in their M. DBing is counterintuitive. It is doing the work that gets the results you want for the MR.

Quote:

That does not mean it will save my M. Is that what you mean?

I mean the "work" in saving a MR is not what the average newcomer usually thinks it will be. It is usually the opposite of what the newcomer wants to do. (For example, letting her go). It does not mean there is a guarantee. As long as there is another person with volition, nothing is a guarantee.

Jim, you are worn down and too weary to think about all this stuff clearly. It is getting down to the wire and you are feeling desperation. You are seeking a particular step you could do to cause your W to give the M another chance. The problem is not you, Jim. Don't you see? The woman has gone off her moral rocker, plus, she has a spoiled princess entitlement. You could be the greatest man alive, and it would not fix her. That's what you fail to recognize!

Thanks Sandi

I just needed to hear that from someone.

So she has dumped all the moving responsibility on me.

I ran into a friend at work and he said just move the stuff you want and let her worry about the rest. That would definitely upset her and jolt her if I left the assets she wanted in the house.

Not trying to be vindictive but it would surely put owners on her to get her a$$ in gear to do something.

Thoughts?

Yes, why would you move her stuff??? If she did nothing to help coordinate a move, leave it to her.

She may have set this up to throw you off your game before court tomorrow.

Don't feel like you have to make a decision about moving to Toronto now. Stay put until you see how it works with the kids and how you feel when you are more stable. If you feel like the kids are suffering with WW long-distance in a year, you can always move then. You need your own family around you now.

I know you love her but you can't nice her back. Move your own stuff in the truck they have and leave her stuff there. She'll be angry but she should have taken care of her things if she wants to be separate. Either you're her husband or you're not. Right now, you take care of you and your kids, that's all you need to do.

I'm in the same boat with WH - I want him back but not in this incarnation, and he still has the power to hurt me even though his actions have been deplorable. I don't know what to tell you for how to get past that except time. I see stories with those who are 6-12 months ahead of this and they are in a much better place.

Here is the priority you need to be thinking about moving.

First, move your kids stuff
Second, move your stuff
Third, let her know you're done with the kids and your stuff. You don't know what to do with what remains. If she wants any of it she needs to come and take care of it.

Thank you everyone for the feedback.
STBX has already taken all her personal items. Only thing left now is marital assets. She wants formal dining room and baby grand piano. Since we are single income even if I tell her to figure her stuff out I will end up paying the bill in the end. But I will leave her stuff last either way.

Quote:

So she has dumped all the moving responsibility on me.

I ran into a friend at work and he said just move the stuff you want and let her worry about the rest. That would definitely upset her and jolt her if I left the assets she wanted in the house.

God forbid anyone upset her highness!

I don't know what you are feeling remorseful about, Jim. You worked like a dog to provide a comfortable life for her and five children. She never had to work, and pretty much ran the ship to suit herself. I'm not sure a woman like her is ever truly satisfied with what they have. Don't you think it is time to stop taking the blame for why she is selfish and refuses to work like most other mothers in the world have to do? She has it made! Stop being the scape goat for her destruction of this M.

I think you are right. You are a kind and caring man, and some day some lady will really appreciate you for who you are, and not for just what you can do for them. When you survive this crisis, and you will survive it.........you will realize how you deserve so much better than you got.

Not all women are like your W, just mostly the wayward ones.

.

Whether you end up with the bill is not really the point. She has to take responsibility for her stuff, not you. If she doesn't and it ends up in the dumpster that's her problem, not yours. Document everything in the move, including your informing her to get things she wants. I assume the items she is getting are not going to your apartment. Is that correct? If they are, why?

Sandi,

I laughed a lot reading your last post!

When I came home today STBX and I had a spew fest on each other.

I initially asked her on how she thought the next two weeks will go with getting the boys to and from school? I stated that we need to ensure arrangements are made for Thursday and Friday since movers will be packing and I would prefer the boys not be in the house.

She stated that the apartment is mine and she does not plan on staying there that she will stay in a hotel with the boys! Again the princess has spoken!

Well of course that got my blood boiling and I stated that I was not going to pay for the hotel and that she should look for a job to pay for it and then she became angry and we agreed the judge will clarify this tomorrow morning when her motion is heard to take the boys for the summer. She refuses to spend the summer here, I said great, then go home and leave the boys with me.

When I mentioned that she needed to make arrangements for the dining room set and the piano of course she blamed me for not agreeing about splitting the assets earlier. I stated that we did not get that far in the process and that those would be the last things that go into storage. Of course she called her L immediately and we agreed that the L's will discuss this tomorrow after the motion hearing.

We both said things to each other that added no value to the conversation. She said she no longer needs to be with me and I stated that I found her behavior disgusting as she was still a married woman and that I will do everything I can to protect my boys from a person like that.

mvgfwd,

I appreciate the advice but the princess has spoken! The common folk need to do the work!

Once this whole thing is done and over with I think I will try and get on that new TLC show about single dads! LOL!

I should probably work out a little first to make sure I have some muscle tone before I go on camera!

OK well the only other thing I can say tonight is that I am glad I have been able to make friends on this site and that I did it for free. I will possibly get a chance to meet one or two face to face (bigybiz)!

STBX had to purchase an online dating subscription in order to meet OMs!

Thanks again to all that helped me get through this day!

JimK

You are a good man. I concur with Sandi and how your STBX is delusional.

She wants her cake and to eat it too! I have the experience now after 5 months of the same type of person to know crazy and delusional.

It's hard to fathom being married to the type of person they are right now but you can't fix it , you can't reason with her, and you have to try not to help anymore where you should not. It's hard....you want to fixit and can't believe how broken she has become.

But there is only sadness, resentment, hate, anger and then again sadness that you can feel from being attached.

I go thru the same cycle you are and its hard. I have down weeks and up weeks but keep focusing on you and the boys and things will work out

Originally Posted By: JimKao

OK well the only other thing I can say tonight is that I am glad I have been able to make friends on this site and that I did it for free. I will possibly get a chance to meet one or two face to face (bigybiz)!

STBX had to purchase an online dating subscription in order to meet OMs!

Thanks again to all that helped me get through this day!

There is a difference.

Here you get a view, you get real care. You can be anonymous warts and all. We still love ya baby.

On dating websites it's all about image. Yuk.

Here you get a tribe, there you get a very loose connection.

Fast and loose.

V

Well judge was not there due to emergency motion is delayed a week. The 2 Ls discussed logistics and schedule for the next week and who will do what and of course I am handling most everything. She is playing the victim.

STBX had a confused look on her face and stated she needed time to process things and refuses to stay in the apartment.

Looks like the roller coaster added a loop d loop today.

Sorry to hear about the delay. Getting more closure is good for you so hope that speeds up

Time to process things? Seems the STBX's are full of excuses.....mine usually says she is so busy she couldn't get x, y z done...but has no real job.

Hang in there...

Just closed on the apartment and have the keys. It's small but I feel good. Right outside the door wall is a play area for the boys. I am sure they will be excited about that I know I am.

Still praying everything is in my favor in the end. Judge was right 4 walls don't make a home so we will have fun with what we have!

Congratulations with your new place! I'm glad you feel good about it.

You sound stronger.

Thank you Painter!

Yes, feel stronger, kind of sad tonight as the marital home is being packed up by movers and going to move stuff to apartment tomorrow and remaining items into storage on Friday and then sign on the dotted line for the sale of the marital home. Oh well!

Contacted STBX to confirm logistics of the boys over then next week and gave her an update on booking daycare for the little ones. Asked her if she had everything she needed for the boys this weekend and she said yes. She huffed and puffed and was not in good spirits.

I asked if everything was ok, she said no and started to blame me on how we will have to go through all the boxes to separate assets and why couldn't we have done this before. I validated by saying I understand and can feel you are frustrated with this process. Stated again for IDK the 100th time that this is not what I prefer either.

She has no patience for my validation any longer, the volcano erupted again and she said I didn't do the work and that she no longer wants to be with me and continued to blame me. I just let her talk for a bit. I said "just so I understand you correctly you wanted a separation where we are both allowed to date? I will not be in a relationship with you and other OMs." More spew from W, I don't want you anymore can't you understand that? Yes, I understand that is why I am letting you go. You can go and have all the Rs you want but I am going to protect my boys.

I think I did a better job validating as I did have a DB coaching session today. The coach asked me to be W and talk about how W feels about me. It was a good exercise and I have my notes to review.

All in all an average day with a couple of small 180s and wins and no losses. Can't beat that!

Rich,

Yes, lots to process from today.

STBX has no plan and no job (well in STBX's mind her job is SAHM) so I guess she will be busy while I handle solving the world's problems.

I'm glad to hear you're being positive about the move into the apartment. The kids will feed off of your positive energy!

Continue to stand your ground and stay in Michigan.

Well still have lots of things at the house and we have to close at 3pm. Today is going to be difficult.

When I woke up this morning I had thoughts in my head about giving up and letting STBX have everything but then that just makes me another enabler to her entightlement.

Some things are worth fighting for. Your kids and your marriage certainly are worth it. Be proud of standing tall in the face of the storm. People around you are noticing even if they don't say anything.

You are going to make it, Jim. Once the proceedings are over and you've had time to adjust, I think you will do as some other LBH'S and start to enjoy your time to do as you really want, instead of doing what she wanted. It seems you may have lived that way during your M, and now you will have free time to spend as you want.

Take a look at Si-07's past few posts and you will see how he is discovering there are some benefits to living single.

Mvgfwd2

Agree they are worth fighting for.

Sandi

I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. I will have to reset myself and set goals once everything is over.

STBX of course changed plans for the day again. She already signed the closing documents and is leaving me to do the walk through on the house and go to closing. Typical Jim has to do it all. I just shake my head and sigh.

Thank you again for being so supportive.

Well, tonight is the first night I am sleeping in the apartment. Soon many boxes to open still. Have lots to do this weekend as the boys are coming back Sunday evening.

Today's events:

Moved almost all our things out of the house. Neighbor helped and is storing a few of the last boxes in his garage, have to put them in storage tomorrow.

Thought I only needed two storage units but no, we have so many things I had to rent a 3rd one.

Internet cable and TV being set up in the morning and cleaning lady coming to help also. Have acupuncture at 130 to continue to kick the smoking habit. Then going to get the last of my stuff from my neighbor. He helped me move things tonight and we went and had a drink to relax. Cried a few times today much less than yesterday. Even the buyers of the house helped pack some things for me. It was bittersweet but I feel ok and that I will survive.

I hope everyone gets a good night's rest.

Journaling:

Woke up this morning tired. Slept well but slept in the couch since I have been moving things for the past 3 days. I have one last batch to move into storage. We have so many things I could furnish 2 houses

So storage sizes are as follows: 1 10 x 20 and 2 10 x 15 units. Yikes!

TV and cable are hooked up. Started to open boxes and put things away but now have to reorganize boxes because I did not plan correctly to have minimum stuff that I should have brought to the apartment. STBX would definitely scold me for that.

My mind is still all over the place. I need to stay strong and fight for the boys. Have a lot to still tell the psychologist.

JimK
Stay strong as you are in the home stretch. Moving is a bear even without the situation you are in!

Slowly it will come together. Glad you are moving on......

So STBX sends me a text asking how closing went and how getting set up in the apartment is going. Also says she is going to drop off boys around 2 or 3.

Not sure how to respond other than no issues with closing and move is going well.

Good for you.

As always you and the boys are in my prayers

V

One step at a time
One day at a time

You are doing it the right way.
You will prevail on the other side.
Your sons are lucky to have you and they will forever honor and respect the struggle that you are going through.

Keep your head up high, continue to learn, evolve and be the man that a fool is leaving.

Got a good night's rest. I woke up with anxiety knowing that STBX is coming today.

I don't understand why I get these thoughts in my head like I am inferior to her? She doesn't want to discuss anything. I know things would be different if she did not have MIL and FIL enabling this. They make me out to be this horrible person and that I am hurting the boys. I am sure they make me sound like the child who just can't let go of the M and accept the D and move to Toronto.

Well if I did move it would't be because of STBX's family wanting me to do this it would be because I made the decision to go for my boys and I would do this after the D is final. I am going through this h3ll to hopefully teach them a lesson that STBX needs to be an adult and stand on her own. Is she lucky to have a parachute from her parents, yes.

Well I don't have that and need to do everything in my power to protect my boys and me.

The apartment still has wall to wall boxes in it. I hate being alone and not loved by my STBX. She can't put on the brakes and realize what she is doing to the boys. Have to muster up the strength to get through this day.

Jim

I believe that you can't teach another anything ok?
Whilst her parents bale her, she may not learn.

This is something she does for herself.
Stay well.

V

JimKao,

I know the feeling about the in laws. I went through much the same in my sitch, and realized that I was wasting so much energy on worrying about what they thought, and what they were saying about me. I can't tell you how exactly I was able to disconnect from that anxiety, but I know it came shortly after I realized it was bugging me so.

It was at my D's graduation when I knew I no longer cared what they thought or how they enabled my WAW.

You to will get to that point. Just recognize and know they have no power over you and their behavior says more about them than it does about you.

Focus on the box you are unpacking and that will take your mind off of things for a moment.

Be well today.

JimK

Those feelings of being inferior are normal ......I find myself jumping still when she says I don't do this or that...and find I start doing it when she is away (like laundry) but then snap out of it

Your the strong one, not her and don't forget that......don't do what you think she will want you to do, do what you feel is right and keep unpacking!

STBX will be here shortly. Showered and shaved. I am excited to see my boys! I feel good. Not sure how to approach her. I want to give her a friendly hug. What should I do? I know I will be OK without her but want her to know I still care.

Why not just try having a friendly attitude, but hold off initiating a hug?

So STBX calls and says she is lost due to contrition. She asks if I meet her even though she has GPS on her phone. Long story short she spews some and I meet her a couple of miles from the apartment because I ask her to stop and tell me cross streets. MIL was with her and I was light and cheery and said hello to MIL and STBX. MIL said hi but would not even look at me. They did not even clean up their mess in the van. Guess that is my job. I am dealing with two childish women.

Unreal....nothing is easy right. Let them clean up the van.....keep the smile and focus on the boys!

Hi, Jim. I'm just stopping by to say hello. Sorry to hear that you are dealing with such childish behavior from "adults." Skip hugs and go for neighborly interaction.

(((Jim)))

It was the constant childish behavior that finally hit me in my sitch. Between WAW and her family it became so bad, that it was a catalyst for my getting off of the roller coaster.
It lowered expectations, well it eliminated expectations and now I chuckle when i observe it.

Have a good night jimkao

Don't clean the van. Their mess, their responsibility.

Well I was nice and cheerful at the exchange. Said hello while looking at MIL. She said hi but did not even look at me just went straight to the car. STBX said a her goodbyes to the boys and that was it. STBX has lost a lot of weight and does not look healthy.

Boys like the apartment and had fun on the play scape right outside the apartment. They are still acting out a lot and asking questions that I deflect and can't give them an answer to yet.

Ran late this morning dropping two off at daycare and all they wanted was to stay with me. Three oldest got to school late.

Lastly, boys told me STBX pulled them out of school early on Friday just before lunch and took them to Toronto. STBX did not inform me she was doing this. Another negative Mark on her actions.

Clearly, her life with OM is more important than the education of your children. Document. Maybe get records from the school to see if there have been other instances of this. Good evidence for custody hearing.

BTW, if in the end you do move to Toronto, move on YOUR terms not hers.

mvgfwd2,

I have contacted the school for records of this and am telling the psychologist.

And yes, if or when I do move to Toronto it will be on my terms so my boys can be closer to their mother. I just need to make sure I feel 100% correct in making that move.

Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2

Clearly, her life with OM is more important than the education of your children. Document. Maybe get records from the school to see if there have been other instances of this. Good evidence for custody hearing.

Be careful, because this can cut both ways.

If the kids are often tardy on the days you drop them off, asking the court to take a closer look at school attendance might backfire.

Journaling:

Yesterday was rough coping with the boys. I was so exhausted from moving and unpacking I went to sleep at 10pm after about a 40 minute struggle to get the boys to sleep. This tends to happen after the exchange with STBX.

Tonight was much better. Daycare workers said that both boys were really well behaved which is surprising because my 4 year old had some issues at the other daycare center and was written up a few times. What I love the most is seeing how the older ones take care of the younger ones, especially S2. Not even sure how I let STBX take him for a period of time during our "reconciliation". S2 lost that time bonding with his brothers. Overall I am very happy with how my day went. Not much GAL but with 5 boys I have a smile on my face when I am with them.

Motion hearing is tomorrow morning to see if judge will allow her to take boys to Toronto for the summer. Should be interesting to say the least.

I felt pretty good today, still wake up suddenly at odd hours of the night after about 4 or 5 hours of sleep but mostly back to my old self before I met STBX.

Please pray for me and the boys, and STBX, I really wish she would wake up from this fog for their sake.

JimK

Best wishes tomorrow. Totally impressed with your ability to slog thru this with the magic 5 boys!

Stay strong!

Hi Jim. I am glad to see how much you have been enjoying your time with your incredible boys.

Wishing you all the best at tomorrow's hearing. I'll be thinking of you and your boys.

(((Jim)))

Jim

You are doing awesome in such a challenging situation. You make me proud to know you as a father. It would be so east to just cut bait and run. So many fathers do these days.

You will be blessed for the struggles you are going through. Keep up the good fight my friend.

And hug the he// out of those boys. It will give you strength, and they will always know their daddy loves them.

Court update:

Judge was done hearing motions at noon. STBX's L shows up at 11:45 am from another court. STBX is stressed and worried that her L would not show even went to the other court room to find her. Ls meet with FOC then we stand in front of judge. STBXs L starts to spew a bunch of things to change parenting plan. My L responds to a few key items.

Judge asks what the psychologist recommends and STBXs L has no answer. So judge wants to hear recommendation from psychologist. Judge also asks friend of the court on their assessment. FOC stated that STBX did not obtain studio apartment per the agreement and said the psych assessment is still ongoing. Discussions about change of domicile came up also as STBXs L mentioned the house being built and more blah blah blah by STBXs L.

In the end judge does not make a decision on the motion and things stay status quo.

The four of us meet out of the court room after and STBXs L asks if I will agree to a different parenting plan. I stay straight faced and say nothing and STBX shakes her head and says I will not agree to anything or change.

Well why should I? She wants out of the M.

My L then asks if STBX will exercise her parenting time today and tomorrow and STBX says she does not have an overnight bag but will take the 2 little ones. My L says no and so I keep the boys for two extra days.

STBX is sad and starts to shed some tears and I walk away all business from here on out.

I will continue to pray that my W comes out of the fog one day.

PS: STBX asked about the little beads in my ears, told her they were from acupuncture. She knows I am trying to quit smoking.

I know STBXs perception is that I am being hurtful. I understand that will not change until she can understand my POV, IF that ever happens.

I hope everyone is having as good of a day as I am!

JimKao,

Awesome and inspirational update! Thank you.

So STBX calls to talk to the boys tonight. Not sure what she said to them. At this point I know she is hurting based on the results of today.

We start talking and I ask her what her plans are for next week. She states that Monday and Tuesday are my days and that we will see what happens for the summer after Ls talk to the psychologist. I said ok, just need to plan accordingly.

She asks me why I am doing this? I stated this is not what I wanted, this is your choice. She says it's all or nothing with you, I am ok with you staying in Michigan. I don't respond.

She asks how long am I going to drag this on? For the next 16 years? I said we will let the process play out based on the psychologists assessment.

She tries to guilt me by saying that people think it is wrong that I am putting the two little ones in day care and that she wants to split the parenting time plan 50/50 for the summer, that the order was only in place for the school year. I did not respond other than the boys are happy and playing on the playscape.

I so wanted to say that I despise her actions of finding an OM and want to minimize any visitation she has with the boys but I did not say anything.

She is making me out to be the bad guy. Unless I give to her requests there is no positive interaction with STBX. I would give everything to her again if she wanted to work on the M but since she doesn't I am going to let the courts dictate the final outcome. I have no choice.

Question:
I sometimes wonder if I am the immature one in this whole scenario since society makes it so easy to D and accept it. I know I am the one holding on and hoping that one day she will want to come back to the M. My L thinks I am crazy if I move up there after the D. Not that I will but I am seriously considering it.

I am now somewhat numb to the fact that she still is seeing OM. She had her sad voice going and was crying at times. Most of the conversation I did not say anything because I don't know what to say anymore.

She wanted me to pursue, she wanted me to move to Toronto, she wanted me to do xyz, I just could not keep up anymore. I was burnt out.

I would love the good things in life too and go out to nice places but geez none of that is worth it just to say I played "dad".

JimK

Stay strong thru this...she is trying to rope you in. She sounds just like my STBX

Her saying "why I am doing this" is ironic and crazy. I would not have been able to resist putting up the barrier of asking her to not say this anymore as she is the one who is with the OM and did this.

FML everytimebshe speaks with the boys S7 gets upset at bedtime.

Rich,

My heart and mind battle each other all the time. I think I am doing much better at keeping emotions out of this though. She sees me as cold but what the hey, she filed for D now.

Oh yeah I forgot to add this. She asks are the boys going to Florida this summer and I said I don't know. Like I can afford this with a D that is costing 10s of thousands of dollars. Really!

WTF who is going to pay for their trip?

$$$ is no object in her mind right now. It's fantasyland & reality hasn't hit yet.

I have heard tons of times on the board about "the fog" and when the WAW/H snaps out of it. Seems like some never do, some do after too long to reconcile or have a chance, and some do in the short term.

Regardless, your WAW is in the big fog of where reality is not there

Originally Posted By: JimKao

And yes, if or when I do move to Toronto it will be on my terms so my boys can be closer to their mother. I just need to make sure I feel 100% correct in making that move.

Jim,
One thing I don't get is why you feel your sons should be attached to your STBXW? It seems like she does not take motherhood for them seriously, and obviously they are not biologically related to her. If she chooses to move back to Toronto and you stay in Michigan, ultimately you and your sons can live your own lives separately from her with complete custody, right?

CWOL

Yes you are correct. I view it as a gift to my boys not for her. I am not saying I will do it in the near term. There needs to be a lot of healing that needs to happen for me and the boys. Guess I am kind of an optimistic and would like to build a healthy relationship in the future. I should probably stop thinking about this right now and just focus on the day to day tasks.

Just received the interrogatories from STBX. Basically does not have any financial info. No mention that she is dating OM and that her parents are gifting the home. What BS. My anxiety is building and can't believe how she is acting.

Quote:

FML everytimebshe speaks with the boys S7 gets upset at bedtime.

Do you hear what she is saying to S7? It doesn't take much to upset a child who is separated from mommy at bedtime. I would suggest you tell her make her contact with him when he first gets home from school, b/c it is too upsetting when she calls later. Make it a boundary. When the kids are with you, you control who they talk to on the phone and at what hours, right?

Sandi,

No I do not hear what she is saying to S7 other than she misses him and loves him and plays the victim. She called at 6pm while the boys were eating dinner.

S7 likes to read a lot and is very smart academically. I feel he is affected the most based off of his past history of neglect prior to the first three boys coming to us. He was four and a half at the time.

STBX spent a lot of time shaping these boys into very well mannered boys but she never let them be boys. Neighbors never saw her outside playing with them, even the boys say that mom never plays with them outside.

I hate talking to them about what mom does and does not do with them because I do not want them to struggle with their emotions any more than they are.

The boys naturally bring things up when I do things different than mom and try to get me to do the same things she did. I validate them as best that I can. I don't want to say things like "well mom isn't here is she". This will just make them feel worse and possibly have them have resentment towards me.

I will take note of the boundary, thank you for the suggestion.

So in the interrogatories STBX says I can have the boys long weekends, holidays and summer time.

States she should have custody because she was the primary care giver.

Guess I was just a paycheck.

JimKao,

She sounds like the primary care giver; she only wants the children when they're in school. That's rich.

Originally Posted By: JimKao

Yes you are correct. I view it as a gift to my boys not for her. I am not saying I will do it in the near term. There needs to be a lot of healing that needs to happen for me and the boys. Guess I am kind of an optimistic and would like to build a healthy relationship in the future. I should probably stop thinking about this right now and just focus on the day to day tasks.

Just from my outsider's view, it's not going to be healthy for them if they are just being used to extract money from you. You should just fight for sole custody if it comes down to you.

Doodler

Yes that would mean she would only have S2 during the day. In Ontario S4 is eligible for pre-k.

What do you want at the end of this? And I don't mean to be with your W, she's lost. But what do you want with regards to the kids? Fight for that and don't give in to her nonsense. And remember that a good negotiator always asks for more than they want in order to end up with the desired result. Request some things that you can give away during the negotiation so you will be seen as being able to compromise. But know what you are not willing to compromise too.

Mvgfwd2

I want to be able to show my boys how it is to be an independent man. I want to show them how to be compassionate and caring. They need to about forgiveness and how to love.

I. Would like them to understand that no one is perfect and that moral values are important in order to have a happy life.

How any of that equates to the number of days they spend with me, I don't know.

I am only negotiating through my lawyer.

I am a really easy going guy so I am just going to let the system run its course.

Wrong thread link:

Here is the correct one:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2684523&#Post2684523