continued from "my story 2"
i agree, im in her head.
the first time we separated, this NEVER happened. every other weekend, was the name of the game.
is she starting to feel guilty? or is she just leaving me a few crumbs to pick up, cause she sees me moving away and doesnt want me to run?
or will she corner me again on the pick up or drop off and want to "talk" hehehe dang it, now shes in my head. lol
It is funny, but understanding that you're in her head, and she in yours (by your own doing) is the first step to getting her out.
My WW was looking forward to a nice family day for her bday. Instead, she's drinking alone with a friend, who may or may not be OM2. I'm making my mother and son and a great Sunday lunch. Relaxing and living my life.
When I get home I will lay down the rules of our separation. I earn double what she earns so I need to start taking back the power balance. She must know that I'm here, but not here for her.
Previous Thread:
my story 2
i just cannot believe the differences between our 2 separations. last year, i chased her. and that obviously didnt work out.
this time she seems....maybe to be....im not going to say chasing at this point. but very accommodating to me. she is all over the map as far a her emotional level goes. but i only let her see a constant from me. im already painting on my happy go lucky face.
She's probably accommodating cos you're still hooked. Every smile from her, every eyelash flicker sends you back to the beginning.
I said that this would be the most difficult 24 hours of my life but I realise that it's not. I cried a little, but what am I losing. I can only win from here.
What would you lose if you just stayed separated and lived your life without her in it, or in your head?
ddj, be strong brother. let the feelings come. you will only be stronger because of it.
ive said it before, im fine with out her.
but what im realizing, is the small changes in her that i had always had hoped to see. she is slowly changing. i cant help but hope, that this will work out.
well, she dropped off the kids. i had them for a few hours and took them back. she didnt trick me into any R talks. she didnt ask for anything. she didnt need me to babysit. she just genuinely seemed to want me to have them. that 4 days was to long in her mind for me to be away from them.
who is this woman ??? she even seemed pleasant and kept eye contact and smiled at me a bunch.
she is making so many changes in her behavior in the last month. i cant even keep up. i dont know if she is finally taking the time to get her life in order or what.
she hasnt tried to talk to me about our R in a few weeks. idk if she is waiting for me to say something ( im not going to ) or if she is happy being single.
i hate to say it like this, but she is turning into the woman that i have always wanted. i havent received any D papers in the mail, and as far as i can see, her EA is over. and shes starting to be nice to me, in ways that are brand new.
Mine is disciplining our S, even cleaning the house before she goes out, turning the washing inside out when hanging it on the line (small but quite big change). It's like her new self is emerging. A more confident self - only problem is that that waywardness is still there.
There's no point in having a great wayward wife is there. As Sandi believes, I need that waywardness to die before I can consider letting her back in.
very good point. having a great wayward wife is, crummy at best. i had that very thing in late 2014 right before we split. she was trying to make up for all the bad she was doing, by being extra good to me, in any way possible. i thought it was great, until i figured out what was going on.
that's part of the reason that i don't trust what is going on in my situation right now. Kind of a too good to be true type thing. i gotta sit back and watch and observe for a little while.
yeah, take your time but detach too. As i've just posted on my thread, show no affection or intimacy towards her at all. See what that does - what do you have to lose?
last night i got a "whatcha doing" text from her. first time in a long time for one of those. i told her i was chillin with an old friend. which is true. and she said "oh cool, have fun"
im pretty sure she wants me to come over and talk. and will ask for that directly, very soon. and by the way she has been acting towards me lately....this could be the "ive been thinking..... speech"
i think it..just happened.....
she was nearly in tears when i went to pick up the kids. she was barely holding it together. i broke protocol and asked her if she wanted to talk. she said yes.
she cried and told me that she has been soul searching the past few days. that, she now realized she is where she is at because of her own actions. that when our marriage got difficult, she ran away and wanted the OM to save her. that she fueled her self with the approval of anyone who would give it and cast aside anyone who questioned her. she feels horrible, wants to be loved. but doesnt feel deserving of it right now. she wants to continue to work on herself for a little while. she said that she needs to formally forgive me for all the things that she feels necessary.
so much happened in a matter of 15 min. i can only remember half of it. but basically, she has taken responsibility , is owning it, and is starting the process of dealing with it.
im truly amazed at this. im still keeping my distance, and providing her lots of breathing room. i didnt say much, mostly just listened and told her how mature, and brave she was for taking these steps and talking about it.
Nice job. Now she needs to prove it with her actions.
Wow... Take it slow... This may be the beginning of some good or some bad. Be careful!!!! Continue taking care of you and let her take care of her... Actions over words and actions over emotions!
im taking care of me.
and although i didnt ask, she does not want any help.
she said she is going to take time with me, her mom and her dad, individually and try to forgive/discuss life up to this point.
great news even though to be taken with a side of caution.
When one of you guys/girls get a break its uplifting for the rest of us. Wish you luck, just remember work before when and as ralph88 said, actions over words and actions over emotions.
ive been watching it all unfold from a distance over the last several weeks. and i still need to see a lot of work out of her. and im not going to rush to get back to her. or even begin that process.
i'm just seeing it for what it is. a step. could be good or bad. and she can still choose to sit here on this step indefinitely.
i gotta keep doing me and watching from a distance from now. letting her do what shes gotta do. i kinda remember being here myself about 8 months ago. i forgave her (this was during our first attempt to reconcile during our first separation) i attempted to make everything right. but it was all one sided, she just wasn't into it. perhaps now, this time around......idk we'll see.
patience and time are on my side
You sound like you have it under control. I will say that from a distance, you can still care, you can still pray for her. It's good for her whatever the outcome may be.
i still care, and believe me, i pray a lot for her.
i expect a process, not just a flip of a switch. but im not expert.
Be realistic though, this may not mean success for your M. And it's a long process. Keep working on you and what you can control. We are all pulling for and thinking of you, regardless of what happens to come through better on the other side.
ive been riding this horse for almost a year and a half now.... lol. i dont expect any quick fixes at this point. nor do i want a quick fix.
i feel really good and my life is great. im at the point where im looking back, to see if she is getting on the last car of the train, or if the train is leaving without her. either way, ill be fine.
she is still very wayward at times. tonight was one of the nights that i realized that. the kids had a carnival at their school, and i could see it in her plain as day.
its weird. one day she wants to make it right with me. the next she is acting like a slut. sorry i hope that makes it past the sensors.
i just want this to be over sometimes.
i just learned from a friend, that last night, she was out at the bar and was quoted saying that she wishes that i would just divorce her. it would make her life so much easier. but she thinks that i think we are on the mend. and she isnt anywhere near there.
so tuesday, i get the cry story from her about forgiveness and putting the past in the past. today i get this.
DB rule - Don't believe anything she says and only 50% of what she does.
Stay focused on you my friend.
It is natural for your mind to try and make sense of it, but DB is counter intuitive, and your path to becoming the person only a fool would leave.
GAL today and take your mind from her and you can find healing, progress and peace.
Be well today.
im trying, i really am. but lately ive been growing weary from playing the game. with what seems like no progress. as far as i go, as much as i do. i find myself here. its a rollercoaster for sure.
so....basically am i soposta just keep doing this until something snaps her out of it? or until i get tired and choose to move on completely ?
so....basically am i soposta just keep doing this until something snaps her out of it? or until i get tired and choose to move on completely ?
e04355,
We can not control our S, we can only control ourselves.
Become the person only a fool would leave.
If she leaves, then you will be the person that will attract the person that you should be with.
If you reach the point where you know that you have done everything possible to save your MR, then you will know it.
When you know it, then you will be able to make the decision that is best for you and you can hold your head up high.
Be well today my friend.
im realizing that i got drawn into her game again.
i saw that she was making progress, and even showed many positive signs. and that drew me in. it got me interested in her again. but when it swung the other way, and she went back to her waywardness, i started to panic. i need to remind myself that this is a process, this is a process, this is a process. lots of ups and downs.
the good thing is, i resisted the urge to tell her how i was feeling. and she didnt get to see me get bothered by her behavior.
i also need to remind myself that there is nothing wrong with me. its not my fault. sometimes it seems that everything i do or dont do leads to this or that. but its not me. ive got my life pretty well together right now.
this site has lots of articles, and i am very thankful and greatfull for that. can someone lead me to anything on the stages of waywardness? or signs to look for? a road map of any kind? ive tried to search, but came up empty
e04355,
You are doing well. The only articles are Sandi's that I know of. If your W wants to come back she will make it clear to you but be cautious of her actions and believe only 50% of what she does.
Yes as JimKao mentions, sandi is the place to start. She can share from the WW point of view. But I would also say, that she will challenge you to stay focused on your side of the tracks.
Being sucked into her game, is an indicator that you are reacting to her actions and words, and this is not an approach that will aid your progress.
Stay focused on you. Learn of the WW mindsets from sandi, and remember, you have the gift of time. Use it wisely for you.
Be well today and find moments of joy and peace doing something for you.
i have a question about child care. we have 3 kids, ages soon to be 11, 9, 6. we have split custody, we each have them 2 nights a week and every other weekend.
for the past several weeks she has been asking me to watch the kids on her nights here and there, so that she can work. ( her hours change week to week).
if i say no, then the kids will be home alone at her place for up to 2 hours, and i miss out on spending time with them.
if i say yes, which i have been, then i get to see them. but im not sure that this is the right choice.
should i start telling her to find someone else? im starting to feel used as a baby sitter. but at the same time i love seeing them any chance i can get. and i dont want them to be home alone for extended periods of time due to their ages.
e04355,
In my opinion, if you enjoy being with your children, then by all means, go for it. Rules be d@mned.
idk, its starting to pick up in frequency. a one time thing, has turned into a many time thing.
i dont want to turn it into a nickel dime thing, but why am i paying so much child support, when i have them more than half of the time????? its the little things that p1ss me off.
I understand what you are saying. I do agree that the kids should come first tho--if they enjoy their time with you and you with them--then take them. Thank her for giving you more time with them. They are precious and the only real victims in a D. It is her loss that she is not developing a strong R with them, if that is the case.
In the end, that matters more than dollars and cents. My oldest D lost her dad when she was little--he took off finally and hasn't seen her in many years. I was angry and worried for her. Now I pity him--she is an amazing kid and it is truly his loss!
If it is true that you are having them more than the custody agreement, then I would say to document it every time. Email paper-trail every change in the agreement. If several months go by, you might consider running this by your L or even her. If it is true that you are having them more over time, then the order for support can be reevaluated. You can always change these agreements, so do the leg work now.
Blu
big news!!!
so, when she picked up the kids. i had words with her about the kids. i wasnt mean, but i explained myself fully and calmly and she agreed.
BUT ! then she says, this is the first time that i have spoken to her since we split. and she wants to have a conversation tonight about US. where im at, where she is at. what went wrong, what has changed, what would still need to change on both of our parts.
i said, not tonight, maybe tomorrow night or later in the week. she seems very sincere. but as she mentioned i still have my guard on high alert. my walls are very high right now.
timing is everything. i dont know if its time or not to have this conversation. we both got teary eyed while talking.
she said that there is nothing wrong with me. that she cant even bad mouth me anymore, cause she would feel bad about it. she said that she has had thoughts about how she was in love with me, when i was her everything. and that she doesnt feel like that right now. but weve been avoiding each other so much for the past 2 months, that she needs to know whats going on. that she doesnt want a divorce, that she doesnt want this marriage to fail. but that she doesnt even know where to start . and that it would be a miracle at this point to save it.
sooooo.....is this the point to start talking? let me say that this all just happened 5 min ago. and i havent had time to process it yet.
I am cautious to advise you because this sounds delicate! You are walking a very fine line between creating the boundaries and space for yourself right now and between also letting her know that you are open to hearing what she has to say.
I never hurts to take more time, so I think you did the right thing by giving yourself more space. If she wants to talk, she will wait. So give yourself the time you need to think about your approach.
Perhaps when you agree to talk to her you do so and just listen and here what she has to say? You don't have to answer questions right now; give yourself time to think and process. Maybe just validate, thank her for coming to you, and let her know she has given you a lot to think about. Remain patient and cordial. Then exit.
Hopefully a vet can chime in here! Remember she may be softening, or she may just be feeling down today. You can't know yet.
-Blu
we are meeting tomorrow night (tuesday). im am planning on validating and not solving all of the worlds problems in one sitting.
any prayers or advise would be greatly appreciated.
im hinging on , is it too soon? or is this a starting point?
there is no more OM. she has been making tons of positive changes. she still swings back and forth. but a lot of her swinging has to do with me having no response. this might might might be a good time for me to not lay it on the line. but to validate her, to let her know that the door isnt closed, but that she needs to do some more work, before it is truly open. im not going to suggest that we get back together. however, she has clearly stated that she doesnt want a D.
its very delicate. and i feel like im walking the tight rope. but from what my coach has told me, and what i have learned in this forum. it can be a great step. as long as i dont give too much info out. and do a lot of listening.
Here is my personal sit. I told myself after I got over all the shock and awe of her scorched earth and bs. It has come up a few times, from her in q delusional way. I made my decision of what I would need before even considering reconciliation with her. For me, it was honesty, phone records, IC for her and mc for us. I have told her those things. I would also need to see actions on her part, feel some remorse and genuine sorrow. Aside from that when she brings up the discussions, temp checking, or munipulating about getting together, I mostly validate, and listen, reword and repeat, give little input. I really don't care at this point, and she would have a long road back into my trust zone. I'm sticking to this, as the other way hasn't worked in the past and probably won't work again. Have you not been thinking of a plan all along of what you would need to see?
i have a list of things that i would need to see and feel before i would even consider reconciliation. and the list is very similar to yours. we havent discussed any of this yet.
i think she is looking to solve everything in one big swoop. and that just is not possible. however, i dont feel like this is a temp check or cake eating. this time feels different.
im not promising her anything. infact im still going to be wishy washy, mostly because i still am. im going to be the one doing the temp checking this time.
she has definitely shown me that she is coming out of her evil spell, but she is not out of it completely.
Thinking about what i would want, is someone that compliments me and my "new" belief system. We may be polar opposites in terms of personality, class and culture - but that is what made us great. I enjoyed the slumming and she enjoyed the high-life. It kept me grounded, but also made me think that I could do better. It helped her to achieve her dreams, but gave her a big head.
So i'd really need to see someone that I wont recognise on the inside, someone that has healed from her years of abuse and regrets. i don't see that day coming. Realistically, maybe a few years, if ever. If someone asked me who i'd choose, my WW or me - I will choose me everytime. I guess that answer will change the day that she does.
kinda hoping a vet could chime in a little bit, concerning my last few post.
i know you have hear it all before. but it feels different this time. maybe im dead wrong and foolishly hopeful. but i just feels different to me.
ive been watching and waiting for a moment like this for over a year. ive made more mistakes in this process than i can count. but i really do think that this may be step 1.
She came over and talked last night, as we had planned. It went well. We spoke like we've never spoken before. I opened up, I got teary eyed. She apologized for falling into the trap with him. And for things going the way it did. She has accepted that its her actions that caused her to do what she did. Not my actions, not her childhood, etc.
We discussed a lot. Basically, we agreed to let the dust settle. Her heart is not ready yet. I'm not completely ready yet. We both re confirmed to not date anyone else. To finish what we have one way or the other. That we would both have to be 100% ready to enter into this again. No half a...ed stuff.
I validated the crap out of her. Used everything that my coach told me. She needs me to be emotionally available. I told her a lot. And she cried in happiness a few times. Im happy that It went the way it did. I was hoping for more, but ill take what I can get. I want this to be right. and im willing to wait, or bail out.
I told her the door isnt closed, but the time isnt here yet. She told me that its over with him. But that he's still in her mind everyday. I understand that. Hopefully this is all just a matter of time.
we both talked about the changes that we see and have seen in each other. this is all brand new ground for both of us. i cannot get over how different it feels this time around.
she didnt seem wayward at all last night. ( but im not convinced its fully over yet) im just going to continue to keep distance. i really hope i didnt mess up the process. but i dont feel as if i did. i was not needy, or angry. and i left things open ended and pretty much had to ask her to leave, or she would have wanted to talk all night.
she invited me to come hiking and swimming at a state park with her and the kids this weekend.
after 6 hours of thinking i said yes
today is our youngest child's preschool graduation. i bought some new clothes, shaved etc.
she has been super pleasant when i see her and her body language has been very warm towards me. yesterday when picking up the kids, she was venting to me about her job and possible job opportunity. i focused on listening.
after all her changes in behavior, the big talk we had and her new attitude towards me. i wonder, are we starting the reconnection phase? if so, im a little hesitant. the slower the better.
i have been giving her just a little more of my time and attention, kinda testing the waters. but i still dont pursue her. she is actually starting to pursue me. but im waiting to get bit again. i guess this is what its all about......back and forth.
Mine is more back than forth. Just hold on to yourself. Good luck.
graduation went great. i had to drop off all the kids stuff for them this weekend at her house. we talked and she said that she feels herself falling for me slightly. but, she doesnt want a relationship yet. that she still needs time to heal her soul from all that has gone on in the last several months.
i told her im not ready yet either.
at graduation, we were playful with each other. she would bump my arm while i was trying to take a picture. and i kicked her in the butt when she bent over. that kind of stuff.
so believe none of what she says and half of what she does...right?
she invited me to come over tonight to hand out with her and the kids and swim. i said thanks, but ive got plans already.
I think you have done an outstanding job of DBing! You are very smart to hesitate and take things very slowly.
I told her the door isnt closed, but the time isnt here yet. She told me that its over with him. But that he's still in her mind everyday. I understand that. Hopefully this is all just a matter of time.
How long has it been since she and OM had contact, or do you know?
I went through a tough time getting OM out of my head, so I understand what she means. Did she say if she's doing anything proactively to not give him mind space in her head? It's difficult to control our thoughts, but you have to purposely stop day-dreaming about the AP.
after all her changes in behavior, the big talk we had and her new attitude towards me. i wonder, are we starting the reconnection phase? if so, im a little hesitant. the slower the better.
Maybe. I think it's more of learning to like each other as individuals again. You have a lot of hurt to heal, and she has a lot of resentment and other negative things to work through.
Continue to take caution and don't push yourself. Watch that you don't fall back into any previous relationship nice-guy traits. You have mentioned that you aren't really ready to move forward quickly, so don't tell yourself you are suppose to or that that is the DB way, etc. I can't say enough how important it is to take it slowly.
I would say to think of it, at best, the way you would if you had met a person that could possibly become a friend.....but you don't know enough about them yet. You are friendly when you interact, but you don't completely reveal everything about yourself.....or get too inquizitive about them, either.
I strongly.....STRONGLY, advise that you do not start referring to any time spent together as a "date". That word puts all kind of emotional pressure/expectation on the experience. You can call it anything but dating. IMHO, I would be very cautious about jumping into physical intimacy, too. Save that for when there has been much more healing accomplished.
You see if you can get along as two friendly people who are slowly spending a little more time together. See if the two of you start emotionally connecting in that realm. Leave romance completely out of it, until you see if you get along otherwise. As she earns your trust and both of you learn to forgive in a loving, sweet, manner....I think it will show in the attitudes. If she holds to resentments.....that will crop up in her attitude somewhere pretty soon. If you see it, immediately pull back. Give her space and let her be the one to pursue. You really can't do much about things from the past, and it's something she must work out for herself and the sake of the MR. Your job is to not accept her back into the MR as long as she still has resentment. That goes for both of you.
I
strongly advise that you do not start living together. Don't be in hurry to make that step. While you are S and learning to work through issues and reconnect, I personally think that is when you need MC to guide you into piecing the M back together. I really think many people that's been in your shoes have been too quick in moving in together. Enjoy each other and give each other some space.
thank you sandi. yesterday was 3 weeks NC for them. she has been very open emotionally with me the last several days. she says that all the hurt and anger is gone. and she has said several times that she thinks im a good person, that there is nothing wrong with me.
i dont plan on dating her for awhile if it goes that way. i dont plan on adding any romance either. as long as she stays the way she is, (not wayward) then i hope to keep the good times alive and let her make the choice to jump in with both feet. at her pace. i plan to kinda keep her just out of arms reach. let her initiate 99.9% of everything. and me not be available to her 25% -33% of the time.
she seems scared to jump in. im gonna guess that she is #1 still not over him. #2 she afraid, due to our past. it will take time to get over him. but it will happen, if the NC remains in effect. he dumped her and told her to leave him alone and go work on your marriage and was mad that she drug him into her mess. he has since switched gyms, and churches in an attempt to get away from her. but......thats not bulletproof....she said that he is on her mind every day. i get that. but its only been 3 weeks, so thats to be expected. ive read, and ive personally experienced, that the feelings die significantly 30 days of NC. so, im going to continue this game of stick and carrot for a few more weeks, months how ever long.
our biggest problem when we were married, was that we didnt feel safe emotionally with each other. now, this whole week, she has been an open book to me. and ive opened up to her. she doesnt trust me yet, and right back at ya on my end. but, unless im a total idiot. (which i have been in the past ) this time around the block feels COMPLETELY different.
my biggest mistake in the past was pushing her. i have stopped pushing completely. when around her, or anybody for that matter, i seem happy, content, friendly, confident. but not too much so.
my buddy is going to let me borrow a book that claims to be a super weapon in getting women to fall for you. it worked for him. ill read it and see what it has to offer, but not treat it like Gods truth. one day at a time, letting her chase me
she came and picked me up today at 11 and her i and the kids went to a state park with a beach and lake. we stayed until 4 and then she suggested we stop for ice cream on the way home. we all got along and had a nice time. it felt like a family again, sort of.
she didnt "test" me or temp check me at all. we were playful with each other at times. made some jokes and laughed too.
she kept talking about her plans for tonight. she is having friends over for a camp fire. i kept waiting for her to ask me to join. but she didnt. and i sure as heck wasnt going to invite myself over. but im wondering if she wanted me to ask due to her talking about it several times. and asking me what i planned on doing later. i was casual about it. saying oh, i have a couple of maybes for tonight. we'll see what goes down.
it was nice, but i can tell that im in the friendzone right now. which is fine, im cool with that for now. for now.......
she isnt currently acting wayward. and she is telling me all about her day to day life and asking me about many things in my life.
im just really hoping that this is a step, and not a place where we are going to live forever. like it was mentioned above. starting as friendly people, learning about each other again.
i just get kinda.....suspicious after a day like today. wondering if she is caking eating, or if she is testing the waters. cause im totally testing the waters. trying to see where she is at, and where she is headed, but without asking.
she offered me the boys again today, so of course i took them even though its her weekend.....we i came to pick them up, they were all swimming, so i jumped in an swam for an hour and we all played. together ,it was fun.
then she asked what i was thinking about us? she said do you want this to work? i hesitated and said yes, i would like us to work, but its not time yet. i need more time.
then we discussed an issue that we have, and we resolved it peacefully in under 2 min. she was like wow, we just did this...
she then said i know that you dont want to hear about this, but i think that you should know, that my feeling for OM are fading fast. that now she realized that it would have never worked. that she would have been unhappy with him. this is a first for her to admit it. she says that the feeling arent totally gone. but that she no longer sees him as an option. that now that the spell is broken, that all his flaws are coming to the surface. etc.
good signs all the way around. oh and she said that she see us being able to work. but that now is not the time yet, to be anything but friends and get to know each other a little bit.
im kinda stuck in this hot and cold stuff with her right now. shes texting me several times a day one day. and then nothing the next. when we see each other her body language says im happy to see you and be around you. but when im getting ready to leave, she gets anxious at the thought that i may try and hug her or something. we havent committed to giving us another try yet. we both agreed to give it some more time. until we are 100% ready. she mentioned dating each other. but she hasnt set a date yet, and im not ready either. so i guess we're in the awkward, stage of lets see how this goes...i dont really like it it here.
when i pull back, she reaches out. when i give her some attention, its welcomed and reciprocated. but not for very long.
its pretty much a text and see each other for a 1/2 hr. when we have a kids exchange thing.
sould we stay here for awhile, and let things build?
my buddy is going to let me borrow a book that claims to be a super weapon in getting women to fall for you.
If it's one of those pick-up artist stuff, throw it out. That may work in a bar of drunk women, but don't bother using it with your W.
There are some worthy authors who have written sound advice to both genders informing them what the opposite sex likes & and doesn't like.
she kept talking about her plans for tonight. she is having friends over for a camp fire. i kept waiting for her to ask me to join. but she didnt. and i sure as heck wasnt going to invite myself over. but im wondering if she wanted me to ask due to her talking about it several times. and asking me what i planned on doing later. i was casual about it. saying oh, i have a couple of maybes for tonight. we'll see what goes down.
Maybe, she did, but that is game playing. Why can't she just invite you over? I would guess it might be her pride......or else she is checking to see if you will pursue her. Don't do it! She needs to work to get you back again!
she offered me the boys again today, so of course i took them even though its her weekend.....
Time to surprise her and have your own plans for one of the weekends she so freely offers the boys to you. Otherwise, she could start taking it for granted she make plans for every weekend.
she then said i know that you dont want to hear about this, but i think that you should know, that my feeling for OM are fading fast. that now she realized that it would have never worked. that she would have been unhappy with him. this is a first for her to admit it. she says that the feeling arent totally gone. but that she no longer sees him as an option. that now that the spell is broken, that all his flaws are coming to the surface. etc.
What was your reaction?
Well, if she reaches out to you when you pull back what do you think you should be doing more of?
sandi,
yes, ive read most of the book and its mostly garbage for single guys. but i would love to read a book that fits my situation a little bit better. any suggestions?
as far as the kids thing goes....ive realized that on one hand, its a trap to get me over to her house. and she uses the opportunity to talk to me. which so far, has turned out really well. and she only lets me have the kids for an hour or two in the afternoon, so its not like she is going out partying.
my reaction to her getting over her OM....i cant remember exactly. i do remember that i didnt make a big deal out of it. i surly didnt congratulate her. i just kinda said, oh good for you or something like that.
i do pull back and wait and it works. but it would be nice if we could get over this back and forth game some time. lol.
i figured something out this morning. SHE DOES NOT RESPECT ME !!! she didnt when we were married. she DID when i pulled away completely. but somehow when things took a turn for the "better" she lots all respect for me. and some of it is my fault. i have been answering to her beck and call the last week or so.
she needed help with the swimming pool. i was there. she needed help with the kids, i was there. this morning she needed a copy of the insurance card. even though i gave her one a few weeks ago. and like a dummy i sent it to her.
i asked her last week to watch the kids for me this weekend for 3 hours. she was going to ask her mom to do it. and as of yesterday she forgot to ask her.
last night i got someone else to watch them. and i am going to approach her on it today when i pick the kids up. im going to tell her that i dont feel respected, when she "forgets to call her mom for a week"
also i need to start telling her NO. i need to gain her respect and i need to start seeing her trying to impress me. ive been a whimp, trying to impress her. dang it! now im angry
and i am going to approach her on it today when i pick the kids up. im going to tell her that i dont feel respected, when she "forgets to call her mom for a week"
Let me suggest to you that you take a different route in giving her the message. Don't talk to her about how this makes you feel disrespected. At least, not at this time. You really must learn how to get the message across with your actions........not words. The WW will dismiss the words........but pay attention to actions.
Until the two of you have fully reconciled and she is actually committed to the MR, I think you have to view her as wayward. Her behavior, perhaps, has improved on some level.......but until you see a
complete shift in her attitude/treatment toward you.......you will need to use actions as a method to show what you won't tolerate. I mean, effective boundary setting.
When you feel she is taking you for granted, pull waaaaay back. Stop being available to run errands, keep the kids, fix her problems, hang out when she's lonely, and free to chat.
When you feel disrespected...........how can you show her you no longer tolerate disrespect? Some spouses have to be "taught", and I don't mean in a punitive, vindictive type of teaching them a lesson. I mean you teach them through consequences. Large or small, if the disrespectful person never sees any consequences for what they are doing, then why would they stop? B/c they love you? Nice thinking, only it doesn't work that way with a WW.
Although taking a person for granted can be seen as a level of disrespect.........we see it displayed almost every day in our world.......maybe even in our own homes. So, how do we teach our children and the adults in our family to stop taking advantage and not take for granted the other person?
As I previously suggested, you absolutely need to stop keeping the kids on her weekends. It doesn't mean you don't want them. It means you are abiding by the visitation schedule and getting a life on your free weekends. And, she really needs a wakeup call about "offering" the kids for you to keep, b/c now, she's kind of expecting it and will take for granted she can be free on any weekend she chooses. Therefore, I believe you need to have made "plans" for the weekends she is scheduled to have the kids.
The next time she wants to meet for lunch (or whatever it was, when she kept you waiting), I would suggest you show her how hesitant you are about meeting her for another luncheon, or keeping the kids while she doesn't bother getting home when she originally said. The first time she asks, you can give a small laugh and say something like, "I don't think so. The last time did not work well for me". If she wants to know what you mean, just tell her to think about and you feel she'll figure it out.
I don't think it requires coldness and/or anger. I think it requires strength and, maybe even sternness. I think it requires a keen awareness and determination not to fall back into those old habits from either spouse. I see where a H could be strong, calm, and even having a sense of humor when he watches his WW try, and fail, her manipulative methods. He can't lose his focus by having a few good days/weeks with her. She is going to test him. That is a promise!
Two things happen when the WW fails at manipulation. She gains respect for him, and his self-respect is boosted. At first, she may be get angry when she can't manipulate him. The longer she has used this method......the tougher it could be to break. Eventually, she will either respect him or she'll move on. Either way should be a win for her the man she disrespected and manipulated.
WW's are notorious for showing disrespect for the LBH'S. They have to see they no longer get away by treating the H in any form or fashion of disrespect. And until you can sera big change in this area...........you do not need to move in together again. It is vital to rebuilding a healthy relationship.
sandi, i really liked this last post!!!
thank you sandi. just in the nick of time too. ill be picking them up in an hour. and ive been rehearsing what i would be saying to her.
but instead, im going to say nothing and hopefully at some point she will realize that she failed to ask her mom for me. when she asked what happened, ill just say that i found someone else to do it.
in the mean time. im not going to follow your advise for the child care on her weekends. etc. thank you
well....that didnt go as planned.....
i went over to grab the kids. and she says, i got my mom to watch the kids for you. i respond with. oh, ty, i got someone else to do it , but ill cancelled that. and bang !!! big fight starts.
she says, oh you thought i wasnt going to do it? so you side stepped me??? and wasnt going to tell me???
big fight about everything under the sun....
fight ends. we stop. actually talk to one another and talk about how this all came to be. how we both should have handeled it better and what each of us was thinking. i thought that part went extremly well.
then she gets into, ya know, if we would both just be nice to each other and put in the work, we could make this work. but....i just dont know if i want to put in the work or not.
ugh......
i don't know if id want someone that didnt know if they wanted to put in the work
i hear ya man. but in 3 days she will be saying lets do this and pull out all the stops.
one thing i thought about "the fight" was. i wasnt mean to her this time. i have been in the past.
and second. she said "im sorry for losing my cool" first time for that EVER.
ive since pulled back, but so has she, so its a mutual pull back at this point.
I suggest if you're not going to push back on your WW about taking the kids on her weekend you at least change the dynamic. Maybe you should instead pre-empt the request by asking to have them before she gets a chance. That way it is your wanting them instead of her using you. It's a big difference. And absolutely don't give her the impression you are doing her favors. You have things you want to do with the kids instead.
I have seen many her languish for many months by not heading sandi's advice when it comes to WW. I hope you are aware of that risk.
yes, i need to change the dynamic somehow. it seems over the last few weeks, that, i grow distant, she will then reach out to me. everything looks like it is going well, i grow stupid, she starts using me, she gets cold feet and turns and runs. then we start over.
we keep playing the same game over and over.
so here is some food for thought. its my weekend. i have the kids. she asked today if she could have them for a few hours. we ended up talking for awhile, and she says that if i would stop being so distant from her when things get sloppy, that she would put more effort into our relationship. but that seeing me "run away" time and time again, instead of speaking my feelings is turning her off.
so, i told her my feelings. and now she is much more accepting of us having a relationship. a for real relationship.
i suggested, and we agreed, to take it super slow. to just be nice to each other. and let it grow from here. i almost thought she was going to hug me. i validated the crap out of her. but i also spoke my peace, but not in a mean way. just honesty from both of us.
it seems our fights are productive now. not toxic. where to go from he now is the question. it seems, that i closeness is getting closer, and our off times are getting shorter and less dramatic.
yes, you are being inconsistent. when you pull back stay that way until she shows remorse for her actions. Go slow, she may just be keeping you on the rope for plan B. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Be consistent.
i figured something out this morning. SHE DOES NOT RESPECT ME !!!
Really???????????
Keep in mind that it is your W who needs to give you a reason to take her back not the other way around. You are letting her control you and put the blame on you. Don't fall for that. You may have issues to fix on your side but you didn't have an A. Fix your issues but don't take responsibility for her actions. When you get a backbone she will respect you, and not until then.
yesterday she asked if she could come over to discuss this coming weekend. i denied her first request, due to me being to busy. a little later she makes a second request for later in the evening. and i accept. we discuss weekend child care, etc. and then she asks, what are you doing friday night. i tell her what im doing ( jiu jitsu from 530-7. she says, well, after that do you wanna come with me and the kids to a festival (carnival, fair) what ever you guys call it in your own area. i accept the invite. she then says, im not ready for a relationship yet, i still need to get OM out of my head a little more before i can commit.
ok, what ever
then tonight, i come home from jiu jitsu (see a pattern here) and there is a grocery bag hanging on the door handle to my apartment, filled with containers of food with a note that says enjoy, with her nickname on it.
she knows that i get home at 815 from class. im waiting until at least 915 to send her a thank you text. which will probably spark a conversation.
this is a first for this type of behavior. we only live one mile apart. but dang. to ask for a (totally non committal non date , date ) followed with food......
i messed up last night.
let me start by saying that things were going well between us the last week or so. we were communicating, she was showing interest in me. she was being nice to me. etc. she asked me to go out on friday night with her and the kids and it went well. then the next day, we as a family drove together for 3 hours and had an over night on a battleship, bunk style sleeping arrangements. and that went splendid. it felt real. it felt great. everyone and everything was happy.
on the ride home a flip switched in her. and she started saying, idk if i want this. this weekend felt like old times and its great, i like you. but i just dont know if i can do this. i was crushed to say the least. we calmly talked about it for the last half hour of the ride and then i went back to my appt.
a few hours later we were texting and i was passive aggressive in my remarks. and i said sorry. then she asked, what was bothering me and i exploded. i told her EVERYTHING that has been bottled up for the past month. i made threats to her about D. i completely flew off the handle.
this morning i took off work and went over to say sorry. and i did. she accepted it and thanked me for recognizing that my behavior was out of line.
she then said, that she just isnt ready. that she likes me, but that me acting like i did, made her put on the brakes. but that its not over, but that we have a lot of work to do and shes just not sure right now what to think.
im sitting her all bummed out right now. if i would have kept my mouth shut last night.......im playing the what if game.
but bottom line, shes not ready to do this. and it shows. sometimes distance works with her. sometimes it backfires. some times connecting with her emotionally works, some times it back fires. i just dont know what to do. no matter what i try, there seems to be an invisible wall that we keep hitting.
then she tells me that this was her make it or break it weekend. this trip was planned months ago. and she told herself that if this weekend went well, she would go for it. if it went poorly, she would call the lawyer. it went well......until the last little bit. she said she is not calling the lawyer. but shes not running to my arms either. ugh....i feel so pathetic. i really got my hopes up. really really got them up. and then bang, crash. and then i buried it 6ft under when i freaked out on her.
so back to square one.
then she tells me that this was her make it or break it weekend.
e04355,
Don't sweat it. My wife said the same thing; it's all total horse sh*t. The WW knows how to set you up to fail. That's why you can't win; it's a rigged game from the beginning.
she drives in insane....when i pull away, she follows and things start to build, there seems to be promise, we cover lots of ground we grow closer each time and then she gets cold feet and runs away. back to square one. and she leaves me with this "if we decide to get back together" statement all the time.
e04355,
Yep, yep and yep. They are crafty as hell. The game is called "keep plan B around just in case..."
Even if their behavior is not fully conscious, they must have a real feeling of power over you. How do you stop playing the game?
im not sure. thats just it. i dont know. ive tried this ive tried that.
The problem, as I see it, is once you back away and she begins to pursue you, you jump too quickly to begin pursuing her in return. Don't do that. Back away and let her pursue you if she wants. If she does stay aloof until she decides she wants to be serious about reconciliation. You may have things to fix within you, do that. But do not fall into the trap of worrying about if she wants you or not. Let her worry about you wanting her or not for a change. She created this mess, not you. It's you who should be deciding if you want her and what you will accept for her to come back, not the other way around.
Her power over you is she knows you want her back and will do anything to make that happen. She is empowered knowing she can do whatever she wants and you will just accept it. Stop letting her have that power over you. Reverse the roles. She left you. She comes back you to when you back away. Meaning, doing what she needs to do to keep you interested so she can keep the rest of her fantasy going without worrying about you. You need to make her worry about you full time and break her desire to have the fantasy life outside your M.
e04355,
I like what mvgfwd2 said.
If your wife is calling you, then something else you can try is answering the phone in a breathless voice and say something like "Julie, I just got back from the store with another box of condoms." Assuming your wife is not named Julie.
uuhh....no, not doing that
i asked her to go for a walk today and we talked as we walked. basically as she explained it....we have a history...a toxic history. but we have both changed a lot and are still changing. she like me, i like her. but she is very very hesitant to commit. she wants us to work out and live happily ever after. but for the time being, she wants to get to know me better, spend some time as friends and see where it goes. she admits that she has very warm feelings for me. but so much has happened that she is scared. and episodes like last night arent helping matters.
e04355,
The Julie thing was a doodlerism (i.e., just kidding).
Do you think the two of you had a toxic history?
I'm not an old timer at this stuff, but it feels like she's keeping you on the hook while she decides whether or not she wants whatever alternative is out there.
we did have a toxic past at times. but we've both identified the issues are are actively working to change them.
i dont feel like shes keeping me on the hook to see what else is out there. i really feel like she needs some breathing room and wants to take things super slow with the intent of building trust.
things got very nasty between us about a year ago when we first split. and right now, we are both testing the waters.
yesterday she text me in the morning, saying that she would like to learn about me and why i had the explosion on sunday night. that we should talk about good things and the future. that she is "in it" "but not ready to fully commit yet. " i said yes, i would like to talk with you about all of that in person, and that i like the interaction that we have been having lately.
night time comes, and she knows my schedule and i know hers, she takes no action to take advantage of a golden opportunity to get together and talk. but instead, give me half @** attempts at texting for an hour, sporadically (which means she was out at the bar, or something similar) and i just stopped texting and went to bed.
now, she invited me over tonight to hang out and sit by the campfire. to which i gave a maybe, ill let ya know, i might have to work etc.
on one hand im happy that she is seeing things in a more hopeful light, and wants to hang out (reconnect) but on the other hand, im disappointed that i haven't made it to her priority spot yet. time will tell. im trying to keep some distance, but reward her with my attention, if you will.
"...disappointed that I haven't made it to her priority spot yet..."
That's easy to understand because you said... "uuhh, no, not doing that"... to the way you get on her priority spot.
But that's your call.
while we were separated the first time, she had a bf and i had several gf. its a touchy subject, that we may have finally put to bed. im not going to scratch the scab back open right now.
Is the OM still in the picture?
the OM is out of the picture. NC for 5 weeks.
She came over last night. we talked a lot. She says that she is in this, but not fully ready to commit. She feels that we need to look at this, as if we just met each other for the very first time a few weeks ago. and that we need to start from square one.
I agreed to all of this. and it makes a little more sense to me now about how she feels and how she is dealing with everything.
I suggested that we stop sitting around talking and rehashing all the old stuff, and instead, start having fun together. we then made plans to possibly go on a hike together this weekend (kids included) and instead of her coming over to talk, instead come over to watch a move, or play games etc.
she agreed that this is a good route to take. that we should do this for a little while and if it goes well, that we should start dating.........
im not getting my hopes too high right now though. i am happy that things seem promising, but she is still back and forth. good days and not so good days. however, 2 nights in a row, she told me that she was looking at old pictures of me and of us and she thought that i looked "hot". that its the first time she felt that way about me in a year +.
i recalculated, its actually 6 weeks for them NC.
i am confused, which i not an easy thing for me. lol
thursday night she come over to talk. it went well. she gave me the im not "ready to commit speech. i wanna take things slow, lets get together with the kids for a few hours on saturday, but i dont want to spend the whole weekend together"
then she gives me $200, and says that ive been paying for a lot of stuff for the kids lately (sports)
i didnt ask for any money from her, and i didnt ask to spend any time with her on the weekend. (its my weekend with the kids)
so fast forward to friday the kids and i are out doing things and i get a text from her that she is having a small get together and that it would be cool if the kids and i came over. so a few hours later we go over and have a good time.
saturday, she comes hiking and swimming with us. it goes well. we drop her off at her house and tell her of our plans for the night and we leave. an hour later she text me and says, if you guys get done before 830pm. lets all go catch a movie together. so we do.
during that time, she gets a text from mutual friends of ours, inviting us all over for dinner on sunday (today) so the kids can all play together and the adults and do adult stuff. so she invites me and the kids to that with her.
so what the heck is going on? her words say one thing and her actions are completely 180 different. except that he demeanor is cautious around me. there is no loving physical contact. but there is some joking around physical contact. yesterday, i was sitting on a rock, and she come and sat down next to me for 10 min. we didnt touch, but we did talk and laugh. when we went to the movies, one of the kids sat between us. (this was no accident on her part)
so it leaves me to wonder....am i and the kids her boredom escape? is she using me to just to see the kids on her weekend off? or is she testing the waters with me? she has been getting just slightly closer and more comfortable around me over the last several weeks. but she is definitely keeping both physical a emotional distance from me.
which leads me to the next thing. ive been reading a lot about mid life crisis. and identity crisis. and she seems to have gone through all the stages and now into withdrawal. but i dont know if it was a true mlc .....it was some type of crisis. and if this is true, she seems to be at the point where she wants our marriage to work, but is afraid. she come out of her hole, walks towards me, gets ever so close, trips over a feeling and runs back to her hole for a few days. im doing my best to let her come to me. and not scare her away. let her see that im there as a great option. but not try to sell it to her like a used car salesman.
yesterday went great. we all had a good time at the get togher. afterwards, she invited me over to hang out. once the kids went to bed, we sat on the porch and talked like old friends for 2 hours. then she invited me over to swim and supper for tonight.
still no physical touch on her part. she actually walks away to the other side of the room when i put my shoes on to leave, so that there was no chance that i would try to hug her or what ever. she did this same thing last year, when we were trying things out.
It's only been six weeks of NC with OM. She is not ready for physical contact! Obviously, she feels that you will want to rush right into all the touchy-touchy phase, and she probably knows you will see it as rejection if she tries to tell you she's not at that point yet.
Before you can work up to the point of hugs/kisses, she will need to get use to your non-sexual touches.
she just asked me out on a date for this sat. night.
and now we are making plans to take the kids on a 2 day vacation next week. she is taking the lead on all of this
she has been texting me a lot this week throughout the day and before bed. it's all going well.
i got a good morning text from her again this morning and she jumped right into us going to the beach as a family next week for 2 days. i told her that i don't want to offend her, but are we moving too fast? she said, well....i'm not ready to share a bed with you yet. and then said yeah, maybe we should take a day trip or 2 next week instead, and plan a beach trip for later in the if we are progressing well.
i said, yes, sounds great, that i don't want to rush any of this and start doing things before the time is right. and she agreed. we then went back to happy talk and she asked me to come over tonight to discuss what day trips we will be taking etc.
she seems to want to spend lots of time with me, and we talk a lot, but still hasn't committed to US. i am hoping that this is all part of the process and that it won't be long until she is in this fully. i am also hoping that, me saying this morning for us not to rush, that it shows that i am not just a push over.
i feel that i should add that today is exactly one month from when she said the words "i dont want to get a divorce"
i feel that i should add that today is exactly one month from when she said the words "i dont want to get a divorce"
Yay!! Sounds like great progress for you, and your ability to keep from mashing the gas and taking things slowly is going well. That's the hardest part I'd think. Anyway, can't say much more than good luck and keep it up. This post just made me smile and I wanted to celebrate for you a little.
im no hero ! the urge to step on the gas is there. we tried that 10 months ago, and it was a horrific failure, that lead to a second separation. slow is the name of the game.
the big difference is, last time, i was the one fanning the flames. this time its a role reversal in many ways.
our talk went well and she gave me a meal in tupperware to take home with me. we discussed day trips for next week. and we also discuss how well, we were able to communicate today about moving too fast. we were both able to speak our piece, with no drama.
while i was there, she said " since things are going so well, maybe we could start working on the house remodeling project together" i said, i would like to work on that with you, but i need some more relationship first. to which she replied, yeah i guess your right....
our first date...... i picked her up on my motorcycle, which she hasnt been on in 2 years. we rode for about a half hour with her hands on my hips. we stopped and raced go karts. and then went to a popular eatery on a lake that she had talked about years ago, but we never went before. we rode back, and she took me for a walk around the block. (literally, no pun here) before saying good night. she leaned in and gave me a hug which turned into a kiss. and then we said good night. and i rode off as she waved. it was the perfect date from beginning to end. and we both mentioned how awesome it went.
she did a tiny bit of testing of me during some of the conversation during dinner. and i played it off like it was no big deal. then she really started to open up about some things, small things that she hid from me in the past. i played that off too. let me clarify and say that it was that when i worked night shift and there was a thunder storm that she would call her dad to come and sit with her so that she wasnt scared. but she was too embarrassed to tell me about it . things like that.
so, things are going well in reconnection land. but still a long way to go.
she got cold feet yesterday and ran back into her cave and hid. she peeked out about a half hour before i would usually go to bed. she texted me a little bit to say, that she is afraid that my hobbies are too intense for her, that she feels i would be bored to be around her. I recently took up skydiving and its scaring her.
ive never said anything of the sort. and i did my best to reassure her that ill do my stuff, she can do her stuff and we can meet in the middle together.
what blows my mind, is that 20 years ago when we first met, i did all kinds of extreme stuff. then i mellowed out to the point that she thought that I was boring. now we have flip flopped roles in that regard.
she still seems to be working through some stuff. she is very hot and cold around me.
weve been spending a lot of time together lately. sat night we hugged and kissed. and then bam. nothing for several days now. we just kinda hang out together with the kids as friends.
i dont know if this is a good place to be in for now. or if i have been friend zoned forever. on one hand, ive been told that this is a great beginning. on the other, im afraid of never moving past this point.
my only options are to pull away, or ride it out. right now im riding it out. it seems that we me progress, and then she gets cold feet and back away. repeat. but she seems to back away less and less each time. idk. i hate this game
ive said it before, she drives me crazy. i took off work the last few days and we have been taking day trips with the kids. we get along great. but as friends only.
in one sentence, she talks about our future together. doing this and doing that. but in the next sentence, she is totally wayward. she enjoys not having the kids around when they sleep over at my place. and im having a hard time building trust. she filters a lot of what she is telling me and how she is feeling.
i really hate this. i hate that she wont just commit to our marriage. that we are stuck in this testing period. but i really cant see myself living without her. we are sooooo close. so close to making this work and both of us be happy. but on the other hand, so far away. and its a double threat. #1 she is still getting over her OM. #2 we still need to work through what got us to this point.
i understand her hesitation to a point. but for the love of God, jump into the pool already. stop dipping your toes in.
i feel like we are getting nowhere fast sometimes. like she is giving me just enough crumbs to hang around. but with no real desire to commit any time soon. but then sometimes, she really shows positive signs and almost gets there. its sooo confusing to me.
cake eating and friend zone all rolled into one. Neither are good alone but it looks like you have them both at the same time. Ouch!
So how long are YOU willing to do this dance? Plot a course to when YOU need your W to be firmly committed to the M or you will move on. If it's tomorrow so be it. If it's a year then that is your timeline. You need to drive the timeline that fits YOUR needs, not hers.
Big goals are best achieved by pursuing shorter term, smaller goals that get you to the end you want. Your big goal is a W firmly committed to the M. What are the short term steps that get you there? These are also on your timeline. Track progress and make corrective actions as needed to stay on course.
Nobody plans to fail, but failing to plan is one of the surest ways to failure.