Link to old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2668400&page=11 I don't have a whole lot to say today. My main thought is that I'm fine with whatever happens. There are a lot of advantages to not being with H. He is a very angry person with poor impulse control. We have radically different values. Our interests are also very different so it was difficult for us to find something to do together (very few things H would do, all daredevil stuff I was afraid of).
I can do what I like now, and not be berated for it. I don't have to worry about his mercurial moods. Not that I'm always Ms Sunshine, but I'm able to say 'Don't mind me, I'm just grumpy today.' H never had the self-insight to realize he might be in a bad mood and not everyone were idiots or out to hassle him. I could say exactly the same thing to him one day and it would be okay, another day and he would have a major blow-up. It's difficult and anxiety-inducing to live with someone who is very unpredictable and volatile. One of the last days before I moved, I was sitting quietly in the living room and H suddenly started raging in the kitchen. I went hot and cold - a real physical shock experience - before I realized he was angry at something else than me. I told him about my reaction and he seemed irritated. It was always me 'overreacting', 'not letting go', etc.
After a month of being cold and mean, he's nicer in the e-mails. We still don't communicate about anything but logistics, and it's all extremely brief, but he said 'thanks' in two e-mails in a row. He hasn't thanked me at all for a month. It may be from getting the deed to the house signed over, he's happy he's got it to himself now, so feeling more benign towards me.
It's the same dynamic. He wants something, he is angry until he gets it, then is happy and doesn't understand why I'm not happy, too.
You sound like you are finding a nice balance in your new life, seeing the positives of life that you did not have when H shared your home. peace and quiet can be priceless beyond measure. Your physical reaction to your H's rage says quite a lot, and I'm glad that you have the space you need to heal from those experiences.
I hope you have a good night's sleep, Night Owl Painter. It's only midnight here, but I'm an hour into my Benadryl and melatonin and am feeling like I may actually be sleeping quite soon. Yeah!!!
I'm an hour behind you so coming up on midnight here, too. Hope you are asleep and stay that way until at least dawn! I'll shut down the computer as soon as I'm done here.
I haven't felt well today so spent it resting (doing computer work). Tomorrow, I'm going to look at a place where I can possibly rent space one day a week for my practice (I work with holistic healing). My new employer is in a related business and is very supportive of my practice, so I hope to be able to combine this without a problem. With my part-time work from home job, I should have more than enough to do!
Also seeing my counselor tomorrow. I was too ill to go to the Divorce Care meeting yesterday, but it actually brought me down a little last time - I feel like I have more or less processed those feelings already and it was a little like dredging up stuff.
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that the DivorceCare dredged up the old stuff. I wonder if I'll be in the same boat when the new series start up in September? What was the subject of the last meeting?
Also sorry to hear that you're feeling under the weather, and hope you're feeling better soon.
I slept great for a while, but woke up before 6 am and mostly stayed that way. Still that was a few hours of really good sleep.
I see my therapist on Monday. I'm back seeing to him once a week, and I find that I miss talking to him more often. I've been wanting to talk to him about my grief recovery homework for days now!
Phoebe, the last meeting was about forgiveness. I feel like I have forgiven H, in the sense that I know he is not doing himself any favors and is making bad choices for himself out of helplessness and dysfunction, not malice - and I honestly feel I'm better off than he is.
I got a good night's sleep, glad you got some, too, even if it wasn't a long night.
The space I went to look at today was perfect and the owner was very nice, so I have agreed on renting a room two half days a week. Very excited about this schedule I'm putting together - it will be busy, but flexible.
I saw the IC today and we had a nice chat about how well I'm doing, and that contact with H brings me down. No surprise there?
I also wanted to talk to her about whether it was co-dependency or denial or another unhealthy aspect that made me hang on to the M and still be willing to work it out, but she felt it was more a deep committment to the M and also because I'm a 'doer' and believe things can be fixed and worked out.
Tonight, I still have to make some business cards and flyers for tomorrow's event at the store, so need to get going on that.
I just requested to become a member of a local art Meetup group - I hope to find some people who would like to meet regularly for an open studio. It's so hard to set aside time for art at home, there's always something that seems more important.
Hey P, I never know what to say on your thread but want you to know I'm reading and rooting you on.
Yeah, peace is the consolation prize of the loss. Not worth the price, but since you don't get a choice might as well take what it brings. Glad you're finding things to be appreciative about.
You're handling things well. I get the backslides during contact. XW just emailed me yesterday and there were several things that were painful. She asked for something and used the phrase "I'd prefer not to get the courts involved" twice during the same topic (I never suggested I'd be uncooperative). She referenced again how we're not a fit for each other (I haven't hinted at pursuit for 18 months+). And she mentioned she was disappointed I accused her of making up our S's behavioral problems as a ploy to gain custody (in our social services meeting I only mentioned that S didn't do it at my place...not that I didn't believe her, or it was her fault...but I thought that was pertinent information in regards to understanding the dynamic...and she interpreted that in the worst possible light). While it's her journey, it is still hard, seeing what things have come to, and it can be a downer.
But my motto is "I only have to deal with it a few minutes a month, she has to live like that". Helps me stay compassionate as best I can. Which has room for improvement.
Glad you're doing well on that end. Not much I can add, you're already in a good spot. Reminds me of my health class, on my final there was an essay question "What can you do for someone who is terminally ill?" and being the spirited lad I was I wrote "try to shift them from acceptance back to anger..." Yeah, I didn't like school. Anyway, you seem to be standing pretty strong and tall, not much to offer. I know it's not easy, but it's cool what you do from where you are.
Keep making great things happen.
Interesting and sad how it's that contact from the people we love(d) that brings us down, whereas all three of us feel better when our spouses are mum.
Congrats on getting that work space lined up. You really are on your way!
So homesickness has set in a little - I looked at pictures of H last night and that was probably not very smart. We texted briefly this afternoon about non-essential stuff and he was friendly. Although he said he was doing a lot around the house and I immediately think it's to make it nice for the arrival of OW! In spite of knowing he's having family visiting later in the week.
I initiated but also ended the convo to take a nap, so at least did something right.
Wondering why I can't let him go. So many things that make us a poor match.
Had a busy morning with community activities at work and marketing my services. Also joined a local meetup art group and hope to get an open studio group started.
Not feeling well again today, tried to sleep but kept waking up.
Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day, plan on going to a festival with son.
I'm sorry that you are feeling homesick, Painter. Even though the new town is exciting and has a lot to offer, it's hard not to miss the simple comfort of familiarity - your home, the town you left, the familiar faces, the familiar ways of your spouse...
As hard as it is, try not to read into H's work around the house. Mind reading is useless and self-defeating. Your brain may tell you that you weren't the best match, but your heart still has feelings for him.
Photos really can be difficult. My computer screensaver is all photos from my hikes with H. There are so many beautiful photos that I haven't had the heart to change the photo set. Unfortunately, sometimes I look up and I see H looking back at me. It's tough because these photos have always been a comfort to me. I loved those hikes. I could sort out all the pics with H, but that seems juvenile.
I hope that you feel better soon, Miss Painter, and that you sleep a little better. Enjoy the festival!
Hi Painter. I'm just checking in to see how you are after yesterday and to say hello.
I'm looking for your thought for the day, too! I need some inspiration.
Hi Phoebe, I'm sorry that I don't have a thought of the day for you! Still feeling kind of sick and tired.
Son and I went to the festival today for a few hours, but couldn't stay very long because both my dog and I had stomach problems (dog was home). It was very nice, though, but I'm exhausted from the little bit of walking we did. This was an event related to my home country and I ended up volunteering to help with translating at the genealogy society. I guess I just needed to fill my time some more!
The event also made me homesick for my country, so now I'm homesick for two places and feel generally lost and sad.
Tomorrow, I'm working a late shift so hopefully I'll feel better by then. I feel a little brittle, though. Most of all, I want to contact H and beg him to tell me that this is all just a bad dream.
I was only kidding about the thought of the day. I enjoy them, but you're not under any obligation to provide me with inspiration by any stretch. I really just wanted to see how you were doing.
Can I ask what language you were translating? That is wonderful that you are able to help with the local genealogy group, though I'm sorry to hear that it added to your homesickness.
It's hard to feel good mentally when you don't feel well physically. I hope that tomorrow brings you better things, like a calm tummy, a well-rested morning, and a bit of relief from missing your past. You are doing really well. So much has changed for you in a very short time that you are bound to have days where you aren't feeling your best. You are still on your healing journey.
(((Painter)))
I'm having a bad night. Took a pill that should kick in in not too long, but meanwhile the tears are running.
I want to send a text to H and tell him that I really hope he's insanely happy, because all this pain better have some kind of payoff.
Oh no. I am so sorry it was a bad night. It does sound like the storm was brewing before it finally washed over you. I hope that you got some sleep and that today is feeling a little better.
Happiness gained at the expense of another human being is never worth the price.
(((Painter)))
Sorry things are so hard. Divorce really stinks. I think it's the worst thing in the universe. I don't even have to see what's on the other side of super-cluster MOO J1142+1527.
The only bright side I can think of is that I flat out admire people that suffer from D as their pain is a thermometer of how much value they place on their marriage. No, I don't want you to suffer, but I am glad you're a good person.
Hang in P.
Phoebe, thank you. I fortunately slept the entire night and felt a lot better this morning. I worked from 2-9 and had plenty to do before that, so kept busy.
I was texting with my stepdaughter who is visiting H next week. She and I both feel really bad about it - she doesn't want to go home and see all my things gone and me and son not there, and I feel really bad about not being there. However, she said some really lovely things. She said she was so moved by my statements about how I'm still standing for my M and won't file, and that I'm willing to reconcile, that she didn't even know what to say - except that I was a rare person and she was so glad to know me and be my family.
It really warms the heart to have her support.
Zues, you made me smile. It's a nice way to look at it and I will, next time it hits.
I'm so glad to hear it was a better day. You deserved a change in the weather.
Hi Painter! Just a drive by hello.
Hi there!
A very uneventful day here - texted some with H this morning about a bank problem he was unaware of. I fixed it for him and he (gasp!) thanked me. We had a decent and friendly exchange and I ended it. And I don't seem to be having such a hard time with it today.
Otherwise just took care of sick dog - got her medication from the vet. Poor thing is supposed to fast for 24 hours.
Tomorrow she get 5 tiny meals throughout the day.
My son and I went shopping and then watched some TV. We follow certain shows and had a good time. We laughed and joked a lot today.
Also marketed my health service on Facebook and got my first booking.
Tomorrow I'm having lunch with a local friend, then catching up with some former colleagues, and plan to chat with another friend back home on the phone after that. Lots of socializing that's not work!
Not sure if I should go to the last Divorce Care gathering in the evening - it's a potluck.
Hi Painter
Congrats on your first patient! I am so impressed with how productive you have been since this very recent move. That says a lot about your resilience.
Socializing helps so much! Something I need to do more of. I get most of mine through my job but that's not enough. I Am so greatful for these forums as well.
I think I get what your saying about divorce care. I went to some meetings and found I was getting depressed afterwards. Just like reading the newbie stories. I feel like I am reliving that acute pain. Plus they are on Friday nights, which is my long day at work and I am usually too exhausted to go
So here's to less bad days and more good days as time goes on.
Hugs
Julie
Good for you! I am so glad t hear that you are back in an easier place again, and that the roller coaster ride relented for you.
Congratulations on your first booking! You are on such a streak of activity, both socially and career-wise. Enjoy all your get-togethers tomorrow.
Go to the potluck if you think it would be good to socialize with the people, and skip it if you think it would make you feel worse. Trust your instincts.
Just checking in today, Miss Painter. I hope that you have had a lovely day.
I wanted to post yesterday but never got around to it. My thought for the day yesterday was to forgive ourselves. We're talking about forgiveness in connection with a partner who deserts us, but I think we're often hard on ourselves and need to be more forgiving of ourselves.
Today turned out to be a nightmare. I had just clocked in for a shift and sat down with my manager for some training when my phone dinged with a message. We're supposed to keep them on silent, so I pulled it out to mute it, and quickly glanced at the incoming message in case it was something I had to deal with.
A friend of H - I received an odd message about H and OW from him before that I posted about about a month ago - had sent me a screen shot from OW's Facebook page. It was a picture of her and H smiling into the camera at a restaurant. She had framed it with some kind of effect with flowers. The photo was taken the day before yesterday, the same day I was chatting with H and he was telling me where the organization he was visiting for work was going to take him and his colleagues out for dinner. They always take them out one night for a really nice dinner - I know because I used to go there with him.
H's friend said in the text to me under the screenshot, 'Guess everything is over now since this is posted on Facebook in the public'. I have no idea why he sent it to me or what he was hoping to achieve.
(I later noticed that there were 17 likes and 'loves' below the post. Clearly, she has many friends who support her in her 5-year long effort to steal my husband.)
What hit me extra hard, was that I had just relaxed and accepted that H was not lying about having no contact with her. I learned that he was going back from the trip on Friday afternoon (he was going to take care of something at home then), which seemed very unlikely if he was going to spend time with her. He has said he broke it off before Christmas, but I was always suspicious (not surprisingly, with him having lied several times before about it). After our text exchange a few days ago, I finally relaxed and thought, okay, he *is* telling the truth. It is finally over. Maybe he won't file for D in 5 months.
Then this. I started to shake and then cry, and had to leave work and go home until I was able to calm down. Before I left work, I called H from the car and he answered, so I let him know how hurt and upset I was. He initially tried to work up a bluster and tell me she wasn't there, but I cut him off and told him I had the photo in front of me. He got calm and more serious. He tried to cut the call short once to go back to work, but I told him he needed to finish this conversation and listen until I was done, and he did. He said some odd things - that her being there wasn't worth it ('it' being the pain and suffering I'm experiencing), that it was just 'okay' to have her there, and he tried to make it sound like she just came up on her own initiative. She's two states away so I'm guessing she flew in. I told him I didn't believe for a second that she just showed up, and he admitted he called her and told her where he was. Maybe I should let her know that he's making it sound like she's chasing after him.
I went back to work and was able to stay mostly distracted for the rest of the day, and as soon as I came home, I took my anti-anxiety medication because I could tell I was breaking down again. My son has been very compassionate and sweet, and my SD has been texting with me and then we had a long chat on the phone. She is going to see her dad when he comes back (she is visiting our home state for a couple of weeks) and she's dreading it. She doesn't know what to say to him or how to talk to him. She feels that he is on a self-destructive path, and she will never accept OW in their lives. She is going to tell him that and try to make him realize what he's throwing away through his choices.
So in short - a day in hell again.
I'm going to take another pill and see if I can get some sleep. I just hope I don't have any of the horrid dreams I have at times.
So I know I probably shouldn't send H a text, right?
I hope his last night with OW was ruined and that he was upset with her posting the picture. He says he hates Facebook...
Oh no. Painter I am so sorry that happened. We know that we can't believe a word they say, and yet we so want to trust them when they tell us something. It's that heart-brain disconnect again.
That any woman would flaunt a blatant affair is disgusting all around, and it's worse that someone sent you a copy of the photo. I would have had to leave work, too. Heck I probably would have been down for the count.
Definitely skip sending him any texts. He knows that he has hurt you. Nothing will be gained by miring yourself in another conversation with him. Protect yourself by creating space between you , both in terms of time and communication distance. And definitely don't contact her. It won't change anything.
Keep your chin up and stand tall. You have much to be proud of, whereas their behavior leaves nothing to admire at all. He can say he hates FB all he wants, but what he really doesn't like is that his actions were documented and then shared. Affairs flourish in secrecy, and his actions saw the bright light of day and he's not pleased. He knows what he is doing is wrong and hurtful, and he needs to soak in that knowledge.
Take your meds, cuddle up in bed tonight, find some ice cream if you have any appetite at all, and just pamper yourself for a while. You have certainly been through so much.
I'll check back in on you later.
(((Painter)))
Hi Phoebe, in one way I wish I could, but I'm working for the next several days which may be just as well to focus on.
A friend did some search this morning and showed me that she found OW's Pinterest page. There was nothing but wedding dresses. All put up about 3 months ago. This confirms to me that it was H she was calling her 'fiance' last summer and that they have plans to marry.
I called H and left a message for him to call me because I wanted to discuss rushing the D through. I said I figure he wants that and that I have found a way to do it if that's the case. I will tell him when I talk to him that I know about the wedding plans.
I am totally done and right now feel disgusted and dirty being married to him. I want out as quickly as possible. This really was a turning point for me.
I'm e-mailing L today to see what we can do - I know of an option but I need to check if it's feasible at this point.
I'm so sorry that this is your reality.
This is wrong. So wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.
I'm coming up on 2 years from BD, and over 18 months since I found out the reality of my sitch and that it was truly over. In the time that's passed I still can't get my head around it. It is so monumentally and profoundly horrible that trying to make sense of it is just not possible. This is wrong to the very fabric of the universe.
Nothing will ever make it ok. Time will pass and as years roll by your brain will lose interest in trying to make sense of it. It's like playing with one of those metal ring puzzle games where you try to get the ring off the apparatus. You mess with it for a while and then just shrug and realize you're not going to solve it and it's not that important. Well, this may be important but after you spin around the why's and the how's enough times in the shower or on your way home from work eventually you'll lose interest. I still find my brain going down those paths, but most days it's just a back ground distraction and doesn't really occupy my time.
Still, there are times when it will flare up and demand attention, and there are times when I am compelled to cycle around the senselessness of the situation. How could anyone make such a decision? How does XW rationalize this to herself, and does she actually believe it herself or does she realize how destructive she's been?
The endless heartache and lack of any meaningful resolution only shows how wrong this path really is. And I'm sorry you're in this mad house.
I know what you mean about this being a turning point. I went through a similar turning point. A point at which my mind just blanked and I went numb and I had to let go. Not because I was trying to detach, but because it became self-evident that I had to let go.
It's odd, I guess that's what the WAS's tell themselves when they check out. They reach that numbness and feel the same way. The big difference is they feel that way over adversity in the relationship, whereas the LBS feels that way in response to betrayal and a destroyed family.
While you've been on the forums for a year, I really do feel like this marks a new BD, and a new day 1. Just wish I could take some of your burden on this day. Of course, it's not totally true, in terms of skills, in terms of detachment, in terms of working towards salvaging yourself, you've come so far. I would never wish anyone to have to survive this, but I know you can.
And the last year wasn't a waste. I know it can seem embarrassing to realize you were putting in effort into a dead relationship with a lying cheaterpants, but it wasn't stupid. It was strong and noble. You'll be able to walk proudly for the rest of your life. And though this isn't a pure thought, he'll remember that forever, and have to deal with the difference between you and this home-wrecker. I don't want to go down that path because who knows, maybe ignorance is bliss, and he finds happiness with a dysfunctional relationship and a horrible woman. Who knows. Getting back to what matters is you knowing you did what is right.
As for advice, I don't have anything too rigid. Personally I don't believe I'd do much more confronting. If you need to go down a cheeseless tunnel for some type of closure you can, but it's just going to be a rerun. Him lying to you about what he did, then minimizing it, rationalizing it, turning it back on you, telling you that you are exaggerating things or misunderstanding, that your issues had nothing to do with her, that she was just a supportive friend while he dealt with the destruction he feels you caused, whatever. If you want to read the script you can do so on other posts, nothing will change by putting a coin in the machine and having him spit it out at you. For me I never wanted to even entertain that BS. I basically just shook my head quietly and never looked back. Whenever she's tried to engage and spew her script at me I just tune out and respond to the parts of her messages that I needed to respond to. I won't even justify it with a response. That's how I prefer to handle it. But you may be different, and that's ok.
What I WOULD recommend is not saying anything that's non-factual. If you tell him you know about the wedding plans, he can tell you that you misunderstood the pictures, that they were for her friend's wedding, blah blah blah. Whatever. Point is, you don't know they had wedding plans. What you DO know is that he was cheating on you while you were married and discussing your relationship, and that it is proven there is zero chance of working out relationship issues while a third party is involved. I'd prefer you stick to non-negotiable facts and just say that you find cheating to be the most despicable betrayal imaginable, and for him to string you along with pretense of reconciliation while eliminating any chance by involving a third party is beyond disrespectful. Again, I don't know what's gained by guilting or punishing him, but if you need to do this then that's what I'd stick to.
Again, for me I don't even think he deserves that response. He doesn't deserve to get your reaction. Personally I just keep that to myself. I've expressed ZERO emotion in any way to XW since the revelation, I don't engage, and I just stick to business and keep my distance. I don't want any type of connection with that woman, I don't want her to know what's in my mind, and there's no amount of emotional distance I can create that is too much. Any emotional interaction is continuing the relationship, and that's a relationship I want dead, buried, and in an unmarked grave.
OK, I got a little carried away again. Clearly this resonates with me, and all I can say is that I loathe what he is putting you through. You don't need to be angry eternally, but for today I think it's ok to punch a few pillows.
Hi painter
I am posting from cell, but I really wanted to reach out to you. I am so so sorry that you are dealing with this and in pain. I am glad that this is going to be your turning point.
I really agree with everything zues posted (love the term lying cheaterpants). Especially regarding not acknowledging him with a response. He is not the person you believed him to be when you married him.
When I first signed onto these boards I was pretty firm in my stance that I would never reconcile with someone that cheats. Even once. After reading these forums for a little less then a year, I am more committed to that belief. You are a loyal and faithful person, but you cannot make someone else be loyal and faithful. You cannot rationalize or argue or guilt them into behaving that way because they lack that quality. I don't buy or accept the fog theory.
All you can do is choose to move on. He needs to be cut off. Trust me, it will feel good.
You are such a independent, intelligent, beautiful and strong woman. You don't need this man for anything. You have been so unhappy and frustrated and worst of all betrayed. By allowing this to continue you are not treating yourself the way you are expecting your WH to.
We all know you would be writing this to anyone of us on here so why not to yourself?
Hugs
J.
Hi again, Painter. I'm so disappointed to hear that your H has turned out to be such a schmuck, or as Zeus put it so well, a lying cheaterpants (awesome phrase), and I am just so sorry that this latest bomb has has triggered so much pain.
That said, it also sounds like you have just tapped into a new well of strength. Use it!
He doesn't deserve you and, quite frankly, he doesn't deserve to know the reasoning behind your change of heart about wanting to rush the D through. I wouldn't talk to him at all. Just get the ball rolling as quickly as you can with as little contact as possible. I absolutely agree with what Zeus said about contacting your H. Do it if you must, but know that that lying WH victim script is what you are going to hear. I doubt that it will leave you feeling any better.
You are an incredible woman. Honor yourself, Painter.
I wish I could hand you one of my little chicks this evening to give you comfort. I can hear them peeping right now, and I think the concentrated dose of cuteness would do you a lot of good. Picture a sweet little chipmunk-striped yellow and brown chick, and know that I am sending that little bit of sweetness your way tonight.
Try to rest, Painter.
Thank you everyone, I'm doing surprisingly good. 4 hours of sleep sometimes gives me a certain clarity. I have worked late and don't even feel very tired now. I'm a bit disgusted and not particularly sad.
H called me back. He doesn't want to rush the D. He is 'very comfortable' with the way things are (cake eating, I assume, he probably thinks we can reconcile whenever he feels like it). He even argued the benefits for me to stay S and not D.
I said I was surprised, that I expected him to want to get it moving since he has wedding plans. He was incredulous and said he had no such plan. I told him that I had seen OW's wedding dress choice that she posted 3 months ago, and he said he knew nothing about it.
I think he was honest. I can tell when he is, he has a certain down-to-earth tone and includes unflattering things about himself. At those times, I can ask him about almost anything and he'll answer me straight, even if it's sometimes hairraising stuff that comes out.
I asked him if he didn't want to D because he was protected from it getting serious with OW if he wasn't available. I think I hit the spot, judging from his reaction, although he had perhaps not thought about it so clearly.
We talked some more about OW and I suspect he's using her and she's trying to rope him in somehow. They probably deserve each other. He still claims he had not been in contact with her since before Christmas, until now.
Then he suddenly started getting defensive and whined about how I hadn't hugged him when I left. Seriously? Complaining about me not hugging him when he had basically banished me from my own home? If he wanted a hug, he could have given me one. Sorry, not validating that one.
I have e-mailed back and forth with the L and she recommends not doing anything differently. She says it will be expensive and can be tricky, and may actually take longer, even though the waiting period requirement is waived. I'm tempted to talk to someone else as well. But because we have signed an agreement already, it's probably too late.
Wow, was I wrong about him telling the truth yesterday.
My stepdaughter went to see H today. He texted to her on the way that he had a couple of surprises, and when she said, how fun, he said "I hope". She texted that to me and said she was nervous. So was I. We started wondering if OW was there. She said if so, she would want to just leave again.
She texted a little later that she was horrified, the house was unrecognizable, and OW has moved in. H made her promise not to tell me. She is terrified of losing him, but tried to talk to him about what he is throwing away and how wrong she thinks his choices are.
I am furious at him for basically abusing her (she has PTSD after severe abuse by her mother and can be easily manipulated because she is so afraid of causing anyone to be angry with her). But he is making her an accomplice to his deceit and lies, and it is causing her terrible pain and conflict because she also loves me and feels that he is treating me so badly.
I hope she will talk to me later tonight and share more. I suggested that she tell her dad that she won't be an accomplice to his deceit and that he will have to tell me himself. She shouldn't be put in the middle.
I have had a hell of an afternoon and evening. So happy I have medication to take. I can understand why people turn to alcohol and drugs.
I really didn't expect it to be like it was the first time I found out, it's almost as bad. Except now all hope is gone.
Sorry to hear this.
And to have him lie to you just like that and to keep it from you.
You do deserve better then this. The best is yet to come to you.
((((Painter))))
It's actually going to be easier now that all hope is gone. I know it hurts now but that hurt won't last forever. You have been through this before and you got through it... But no more after this ok? You need some peace
This is on him, not you. Anyone capable of doing this isn't worth it. Let her have him. He is not a prize. He is a liar and he is disloyal and he is selfish.
I am sorry for your step daughter though. You are right to not get her involved. But you can't make someone do the right thing.
She is lucky to have you as a positive influence.
J.
Well, I have all kinds of ugly descriptors running around in my head for your H right now, Painter, but I'll spare you the reminders. I'm guessing you've been thinking the same things all day.
I'm with JujuB. They deserve each other and you deserve so much better. The lying is despicable. I am so sorry. It's going to be hard for a while again, but you will come out on the other side, a whole person with your dignity and integrity intact.
Take your meds and try to sleep. May tomorrow bring you some new-found clarity.
(((((Painter)))))
So Zues, would you blame me if I file for an at-fault D?
You're my litmus test...
I'll give you a ride to the courthouse if you need...
That makes me feel better. I hate giving up and taking the initiative to end my M. Still, today, the thought is awful to me.
But my wish to end this quickly and in the process put their names in a court document and drag them through the mud is greater. I need vindication, and since God doesn't seem to do much smiting these days (I campaigned unsuccessfully in my church for more smiting), I guess I have to take care of it.
I'd sleep on that Painter.
IMHO the best thing to do is turn the other cheek, and not to get in the muck with them. Don't get your hands dirty punishing or embarrassing or anything like that. Just do what you need to do to protect yourself financially and walk away.
Look- the best revenge is to not give him anything he can whisper about to home-wrecker in the evening about how horrible you are. Be strong and calm and be a rock for your kid. Be graceful and fair in the settlement. Handle it better than anyone else would handle it. Otherwise he'll just convince himself he was right to leave, and there'd actually be a tiny grain of truth to that.
That's what I've done in my sitch, and it feels WONDERFUL.
And besides...your STBXH and that tramp are no longer in your world. They may still occupy your mind for now, but they won't for long. You know who will? YOU. You will live with you the rest of your life. And when you are judged, either by God or by Zues from the DB forums, it will all be about what YOU did. Great, other people hurt you, betrayed you, let you down, treated you badly...good for them. That will be dealt with when we get to them. But when we're looking at you, it's all about you. What YOU do.
So make what you do be beyond reproach. Go to the courthouse by all means. File. But check the emotions at the door. If the best thing for the family is a D that takes some time, then breathe deep and handle it. If he's trying to negotiate, be reasonable, and do what's right. Be fair. Be cooperative. He doesn't deserve it. But YOU do.
It's late and I'm rambling. Sorry about that. I'm not very sharp right now. I'll just reiterate that I am SO glad I've handled XW that way. And now what's nice is that she's been fairly cooperative too, which has been very nice as we've been able to trade weekends with the kids, and made other compromises. It's made MY life easier, and my KIDS life easier. So if being selfless and righteous to sleep soundly at night isn't good enough, it turns out it was the selfish thing to do as well.
Please spit any venom you need to here and you'll have our complete support. But once you interact with him or a lawyer, be the model of professionalism. You can do it!
Hi Painter, I'm sorry to hear how things have unfolded - ugh...
My D has just been finalised (H filed and carried through right to the end.) In fact the end of the M is really helping me move on now. I'm only posting because I have had the same inner debate about filing on grounds of infidelity and citing OW in the D petition. If I had done that, she would have received the petition at work and it would all have been a bit of a drama and horrible for her I guess. I kind of loved the thought of that....wow - you can even claim for OW to pay your costs here. And I could have listed his 'spends' on her ('000s) and had those taken into account before splitting assets....all highly tempting...he he
But I wasn't ready to file in any case and ultimately I'm glad that H filed as he did and I didn't even need to make that decision. The only thing I would say is try to act from your own highest place and think in a long term way about what you are going to feel happy with looking back....what you are feeling (understandably) right now, is likely to change in time and he/she won't really matter..you're the one that matters and you'll be the one to live the path you have chosen and live with the choices you make.
Take care Sweetie xx
I feel like it would be a relief to die. There's no danger of me doing anything, don't worry, it's just desperation for this pain to go away. I know we've all been there and I feel like I've lived this so long (2 years since BD next month, 6 months of rage from H before that) and I'm just wore out. I didn't think I'd be here again. I don't know if I'll feel better tomorrow. Have taken two (very low dose) pills and still this faucet just won't shut off.
I haven't heard anything back from SD and I'm imagining how they all had this great evening and OW ingratiated herself and they're now all having fun planning a wedding. I know that's silly but the mind goes where it wants and I can't smack it.
I'm sorry you're having a rough night and I'm sure many of us recognise that feeling of unbearable pain and the desperation to bring pain to an end. The main thing is not to act on it and recognise that in time things will improve and you will feel better. And actually, having experienced pain like that helps us to appreciate the little things in life and live in the here and now.
Yes, try not to mind read - I doubt very much that's how the evening unfolded! Now we are D'd it may well be that my XH is busy planning a wedding and new family...but if that is with OW, they will always need to live with how their R began. And I'm not sure that true happiness can really be built on that kind of shaky foundation.
The main thing is to try and haul your focus off them and onto you. Try and do soothing things that occupy you for a little while, spend time with supportive people and so on. This is a further BD for you and feels awful - but on the positive side, we tend to recover much more quickly from a further BD than we did the first one.
I'm hoping you will drift off to sleep soon and wake up feeling more settled, and have a better day tomorrow.
This too shall pass xx
I've been sitting here for like 15 minutest trying to think of a way to reply and I'm just stuck. So I'll go with some dark humor that is probably both appropriate and entirely inappropriate for the situation. Please forgive my inability to stop my own bad taste. Anyway, it has to do with the idea that if I ever wanted to end my life I wouldn't do it quietly in my basement or something. I might as well make a scene. For some reason I always pictured crashing a wedding. You know, the couple is saying their vows, and right before the 'I do' I just jump up and shoot myself in the head with a shot gun. Congrats folks, for the rest of your life you'll be haunted by crazy wedding suicide guy! Make no mistake, we all need to commit to getting through the hard times together, my commitment to life is like my commitment to marriage. But if fantasizing brings you a small dose of relief, picture that for a few minutes
It's a joke anyway, frankly anyone that could do this to you would probably shrug it off and go right on with the service. So, so, so sick.
OK, this is a disaster but I can't screw around with this post all darn day Painter. Know that I am here for you even when I'm at a total loss.
Thank you, Sotto and Zues. I know you both know what I'm going through and it both helps and it doesn't. It does because I know your compassion comes from a place of complete understanding and it makes me feel less like a failure, and it doesn't help because I wouldn't want anyone to go through this and knowing that there are many, many people out there who are willing to put their spouses and families through this kind of pain is just horrific to me.
I think I had hope all along. Maybe I was in some kind of denial. This is still very, very bad. I don't feel any better than last night. I've slept about 4 hours.
Painter,
I hope I don't sound harsh but get out today and do something! Go for a walk, meet up with a friend, go shopping! Anything to keep your mind off of pain and despicable actions of your H.
I am having a hard time with this also but need to kick myself in the a$$ when this happens and start taking charge of my life!
Easier said than done but just take some baby steps and life 2.0 will fall into place.
Hugs
Hi Jim, I have to work today, so will be busy. I took the dog for a morning walk while chatting with a friend on the phone.
I'm just worried about going out in public and not being able to stop crying.
I keep breaking down, so I really just want to stay in bed and post here.
Hi painter. Keep posting if it helps. We are listening.
I know you are experiencing intense and painful feelings and i know you dont really want your life to end, only these feelings.
I never once wanted my life to end and do you know why? Because that would be giving someone else way too much power. No one is worth that. Especially not your husband.
Life is misery and hardship. All at different degrees and levels. Our whole lives we will navigate through this. Its a guarantee. It's part of the human condition. But maybe experiencing these depths of pain will help us to experience and appreciate something positive with just the same type of depth? Kind of like good can't exist without evil etc. I guess what I am trying to say is that this won't be permanent. You will look back and be greatfull that someone else has to deal with this man while you are experiencing peace and beauty.
I have this young pt that has been through a lot of trajedy and lives with some serious health issues. She is incredible to talk to. I compare her to other people her age and her strength and confidence and depth of soul is just amazing. This is our present trajedy. To build up our soul and strength. I know that none of us would elect to have this happen to us or even wish it upon another. But like it or not it has. Therefore the only way it won't be a waste is to use it as a catalyst for your own personal growth and strength. You all ready have, it's just getting through this final hurt. Runners call it hitting the wall, when that lactic acid builds up and you can't go on. But you do.
Extra Hugs
J.
Hi Painter. I hope it's ok to post. I know exactly how your feeling in wanting the pain to end and the good news is , it will. One day In the future this part of your life will be a memory How you remember it , good or bad will be up to you
When I say good it's because your future is unwritten , fantastic things may lie ahead and this zpart of your life was needed to get you there I haven't read all your story but I will , but no matter what happened this is a chance for you to grow as the person you want to be. Of course its c@p what happened but it's done now and by moving forward , making your life the best you can make it , the whole thing can be used to make changes that you want / need
Like us all I do miss the woman I spent 26 years with BUT right now , I'm too good for her , she doesn't deserve some one like me and I'm sure your sitch is the same We want the person we knew back but they are not that person anymore and may never be again This forum offers great advice and time is the best healer of all.
Choose to live your life for you and when the cr@p gets too much do something about taking your mind off it. I'm sitting in my car because WW calls into the house after work , I've been for a long walk , I'm now posting on here and then I have shopping to do and lunches to make and uniforms to iron , while doing this I shall be interacting with / annoying my kids !!!
We only get one chance at this life so make the most of it Again , I truly get the ' ending the pain ' feeling and I also fully appreciate its just a feeling and nothing more but does this have to be how you feel ? Watch a comedy , post on here to a newbie who is suffering the soul destroying waves of BD , keep your mind off perceived and / or real hurt
All the above is just my humble opinion and I hope it was ok to join your thread
Take care. Rd
Have strength painter, I feel like you want the pain to end, I understand the feeling of it would be easy to die! But it just transfers the pain to your loved ones.
Breath, sleep, find things you enjoy!
Painter
I have been sobbing while driving in my cat the last two days. Yesterday I stayed in bed most of the day but went out just to get some fresh air and a coffee. Today I am visiting family.
I pray that you overcome this pain sooner than later.
More hugs
Thank you everyone, I feel the group energy and support surrounding me.
Just home on a quick break from work and wanted to catch up on posts.
Have not heard from SD yet and that is very hard. I very much want to call H and confront him and get him to admit what he's done. I probably won't do that today.
Hi Painter. I honestly don't know what to say, except that I'm here and i will continue to be. I can regale you with silly stories of baby chicks or MeetUps gone awry, but it's all in an effort to distract, and right now I know your pain is too raw for simple distraction.
I do think that you need to do what's best for you right now, and I'm not at all sure that confronting him will bring you healing. Maybe you need the experience to process your anger, but I guess I would urge you consider how you will feel about anything you do or say in hindsight. Zeus' post kind of said it all on that front. You will never regret looking back and knowing that you were the better person in this mess, that you took the high road at every juncture.
I wish your pain would end yesterday. I wish I could reach out and give you the hug you need and deserve.
(((((Painter)))))
I'll check in on you again tonight. In the meantime, tonght you should settle in with a beautiful pot of tea. As Annie Proulx says, "Tea is a good drink. It'll keep you going."
Love that line.
Just a bump for Painter to show you're still in my thoughts.
Thank you guys, it's touching that you keep checking in on me.
I'm taking medication every 6-8 hours to keep functional. I got home from work a little while ago and have to work tomorrow, but then I'm off for three days. I start late tomorrow so will try to set up some L appointments. Also called and left a message for my T to get in with her asap.
I didn't think he'd do it. I said it as a joke, but I actually didn't think it would happen. The idea of her petting my cats, using my stove, rifling through my things (there's still things that aren't packed), changing everything to unrecognizable - makes me sick.
I heard from SD. She got very, very sick and ended up at the doctor's. That's her reaction when she gets overloaded. H has pushed her too far.
And once again a whole lot of colorful adjectives are swirling around my head, just wanting to fly out to describe your H. Asking someone to lie for you is disgusting behavior, and asking his own daughter to do so, knowing how much it will mess her up, is beyond the pale.
And the OW in your home, petting your cat? Good grief. What a sh1t. Sorry, it slipped.
You keep right on taking those meds, Painter. That's why you have them, for days like these. I'm glad you are trying to get in to see your therapist soon. I have found that I feel better after I talk with mine. I'm not sure why, really, but something about talking to him calms me. I hope that your T does that for you, too.
I hope the meds help you get some rest. You need a few hours off from all of this.
(((Painter)))
P.s. My chicks say hello and to send you a dose of concentrated cuteness. Cheep, cheep.
Painter, I've had some very dark thoughts myself lately. What pulls me back is thinking about how selfish it would be to do something drastic. Me and d7 deserve more. So much of what other posters say resonates. Disposal M, dishonesty, disloyalty, lack of commitment, selfishness, etc. The devil wants us to take the easy way out. One thing that is helping me, as recommended by zues posts, is appreciate what we have. Each day brings new possibilities, we just need to refocus. When I mindfully think about what I have to appreciate it seems to help refocus. When someone does us wrong, its not because of who we are, but due to how immoral and soulless they are. We deserve better and maybe, no matter how painful, it's God's way of kicking us in the rear to motivate. I hope you have better day tomorrow.
painter,
I am not sure what I can say as many have stated, but a quote comes to mind.
The quote is from Winston Churchill, If you are going through hell, keep going.
You and your family are in my prayers this night.
Hoping you're asleep Miss Painter and enjoying some respite from the latest happenings. Thinking of you.
Checking in on you again. Hugs!
Hi Phoebe and everyone - I slept decently last night, then spent all morning on the phone until I had to be at work and worked until late tonight.
I've been crying more or less all the time since Thursday. The tears were just streaming down even while I was at work today. I take meds (Xanax type), but they're not stopping the tears. They make the pit in my stomach a little less intense. I actually feel dehydrated from all the crying.
I can't eat very much, so a hard-boiled egg and a little ice cream is all I've gotten down in the last few days. Fortunately, I wanted to lose some weight anyway. I take my vitamins to stay healthy.
I talked to H twice today. It started off badly with him hanging up on me several times (trying to avoid what he knew was coming), then we had two decent conversations. He's still trying to lie and claims that he didn't tell me because he doesn't want to hurt me. After talking for quite a while, he suggested to call me tomorrow morning when he's driving for an hour to a meeting tomorrow morning.
I cried quite a bit on the phone and he said his heart is breaking over hearing me so sad. He also sent me an e-mail about how bad he feels. I think he deserves a little heartbreak and I hope it soured his evening with OW. When I asked him if she knew that I didn't know she had moved in, he said 'Eh, well, she knows now'.
He said the first week after I left was that painful for him, so he said he knew how I felt.
She's been living in our house for 3 weeks. I left 5 weeks ago. She moved up with furniture and they've rearranged the whole house. He claims it wasn't decided until after I left, which obviously is a lie.
I am sick to my stomach thinking about all the personal paperwork I still have there, my Christmas decorations, my other things that she gets to rifle through while H is at work.
He said he wanted a Suzy Homemaker (I said 'Suzy Homewrecker is more like it') and that she gets up at 4:30am to make him lunch every day. She lives only for him, it seems, a real, old-fashioned housewife which is what he wanted. Wonder how long that will last. It does get lonely to do everything by yourself and serve on someone else and make them the focus of your life.
I said it was hard to understand that it was what he wanted when he kept saying I needed to get a job.
I don't know why I'm so devastated. I really thought I was further ahead. I think it's that she moved in took all hope away for any reconciliation in my mind. But why would I want to reconcile with this man? I'm at a loss over myself. I'm seeing my counselor tomorrow at 5pm.
I was thinking that it feels like that when I was with H, I was somebody and now I am nobody. I know it's a weird feeling because I normally have good self-esteem and am active and involved in many things, but now it feels like there is no reason for my existence.
Unfortunately, my SD did not handle the situation well and made me look bad to H and possibly OW. She knows she didn't tell them the truth and I called her on it and said that although I understand she felt she had to choose, it wasn't necessary to say bad things about me to them. I told her I was very sad and sorry about everything and wished her the very best.
I'll never understand it.
If you took 100 people and asked them to list out everything that was important in a marriage...then asked them to prioritize those things...I wonder what that list would look like.
Because it seems to me that at the core...the very core...would be someone that is committed, loyal, dependable, and that will be by your side for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, until death do you part.
In fact, that would really have to be number one, right? I mean, no one says "It would be more important that my spouse kept a tidy house, even if they leave me after 15 years at least I'll remember how tidy the house used to be". That wouldn't make sense.
No, commitment is the number one priority in a marriage.
So when a WAS goes and shacks up with another person, they can have a lot. And when you look at the surface I'm sure it's great, I'm sure they're having a great honeymoon phase. But no matter what, they can NEVER rebuild the commitment they had, because they've already broke one vow to God, hard to just say "but this time I mean it!" I mean, if you can't honor vows after growing up together and having a family together, how are you going to honor them when you're just trying to ride the honeymoon wave?
My wonder is whether they'll be happy for 5-10 years and then devastated when they break up down the road...or whether they both know deep in their gut that it won't last and that it's horribly wrong and they've screwed up, so they're just trying to enjoy the honeymoon while they can because they know there will be hell to pay, and they're living in dread of the aftermath like someone drinking to a stupor when they know they have a big day at work the next day and reality will come pretty soon.
For me I would guess that I'd be sick the whole time. It wouldn't take until BD in 9 years to be devastated over the situation. I think I'd know from day one that something was horribly wrong, and that it wouldn't last, and that it was all just shoveling piles of chit into the hole that my committed relationship and family used to exist. Then again, that's why I'm not a WAS. It's possible that WAS's wouldn't feel the same sense of loss because maybe the commitment just doesn't mean as much to them, or they're not as sensitive to that, and they're comfortable just medicating away. Maybe they never believed they could make a relationship work so are just trying to have some good sex before they die.
I don't know. I guess it doesn't matter. That's just what I think about sometimes when I watch this crap. I'll never get it, and I'm glad for that.
As for you P, the reason you feel loss is because you lost your husband. Whether he died, turned into a lying cheater pants, or always was one and hid it from you...either way you THOUGHT you had a good man, and now you don't. That is the loss. You lost the perception of a good partner in your life. That is the toughest loss in the world. And along with it goes a lot of faith in humanity, and that sits in your gut the way the futility of the rebound must sit in theirs. So it doesn't matter how full your life is now, or how big of a jerk he is. It will hurt.
And you've lost the 'witness' to your life. The other person that can be there to see you experience the suffering and adversity you go through, and that can share some of the good moments. The person that knows your inside jokes, that knows who you were when you were 20, and that saw you grow over the years. The person that knows all of your childhood stories, your traditions, the things that used to matter. All of the values and feelings you could never explain, that have to be observed for decades to encapsulate. This man knew you, and now that witness is gone. That's very hard.
Which is why DB forums are so great. We can start to know you know. We can be your witness. We are here knowing what you are going through, and learning more and more who you are.
I don't know how I would've gotten through without them. I hope they give you some comfort as your world continues to rock.
Thanks for posting updates P and keep hanging in.
Zues, great and valid points, and very helpful to think about right now.
I have to be brief because I'm so drugged I have to go lie down. I had a very long conversation with H this morning. Brief conclusion is - he knows he did some crappy things, he never considered *not* doing them even though he knew they would hurt me, he lied because he didn't want to hurt me and he still loves me. I have my thoughts about all of this but I'll come back to them later.
We're going to talk more, it was actually a good conversation, although I cried at times.
I've been crying more or less all the time since Thursday. The tears were just streaming down even while I was at work today. I take meds (Xanax type), but they're not stopping the tears. They make the pit in my stomach a little less intense. I actually feel dehydrated from all the crying.
I am so sorry Painter. It's probably cathartic. After I went through this, it was followed my much relieved numbness and detachment. I hope it's the same for you as well.
I talked to H twice today. It started off badly with him hanging up on me several times (trying to avoid what he knew was coming), then we had two decent conversations. He's still trying to lie and claims that he didn't tell me because he doesn't want to hurt me. After talking for quite a while, he suggested to call me tomorrow morning when he's driving for an hour to a meeting tomorrow morning.
Please read and reread your statement above, over and over if you have to. Your husband disrespects you by hanging up on you, incredibly insulting. He is lying to you. And he is manipulating you. He is the perpetrator and you are looking to him to comfort you. This has to stop. It's not real comfort. It's just lies. Please painter, start looking within yourself for this comfort.
I cried quite a bit on the phone and he said his heart is breaking over hearing me so sad. He also sent me an e-mail about how bad he feels. I think he deserves a little heartbreak and I hope it soured his evening with OW.
You are trying to rationalize with him and guilt him into feeling something he is simply incapable of feeling. Look at his actions. If he really felt bad, he would never have done this. Again, his comfort and words are lies.
He said he wanted a Suzy Homemaker (I said 'Suzy Homewrecker is more like it') and that she gets up at 4:30am to make him lunch every day. She lives only for him, it seems, a real, old-fashioned housewife which is what he wanted. Wonder how long that will last. It does get lonely to do everything by yourself and serve on someone else and make them the focus of your life.
I said it was hard to understand that it was what he wanted when he kept saying I needed to get a job.
reading this made me FURIOUS. If he wants a codependent, stupid, deceitful, insecure maid for his partner over an intelligent, passionate, and soulful woman let him have that and move on graciously. The two of them are beneath you. They really are. You have served your purpose for him and now he needs someone to make him lunch everyday. That's all this is about.
I don't know why I'm so devastated. I really thought I was further ahead. I think it's that she moved in took all hope away for any reconciliation in my mind. But why would I want to reconcile with this man? I'm at a loss over myself. I'm seeing my counselor tomorrow at 5pm.
I was thinking that it feels like that when I was with H, I was somebody and now I am nobody. I know it's a weird feeling because I normally have good self-esteem and am active and involved in many things, but now it feels like there is no reason for my existence.
I think that once the emotions pass, you will be able to reflect on this more logically. Right now you are in the midst of betrayal, lies, deceit, and manipulation. You have to climb out of that and look at things from a more clear position. If you keep calling and talking to him your just further entrenching yourself in more lies, betrayal, deceit, and manipulation. Your wasting your time and energy. Your existence has been dampened by him. No one should have ever have that much power over you. So take it back.
I hope I Am not coming across too strongly. I know how different it feels when it is some one else's situation versus your own. It's just I know what a strong woman you are and you will get through this and look back on it with a completely different perspective.
The fact that he even told you that she is waking up at 4:30 am to make him lunch is disgusting.
Why would anyone say that to someone that is hurting because they betrayed them????? It's really sick and unnecessarily cruel. He is trying to hurt you but in a really manipulative way.
look at this as an outsider.
Also don't make any decisions about divorce process yet until you are more detached. I'm going to play Devils advocate here. Every action has consequences. your husbands actions were deplorable. He was a serial cheater, so why shouldn't he have to accept those consequences regarding your home ownership and marital stake? Why continue to enable his bad behavior. Let him learn consequences like the rest of the world. You embraced his family and You sacrificed your career to take care of his family!!!
I understand not exploiting the legal system but I don't think you would be. I don't think that giving up something that was yours is being the bigger person. It's not like you ordered a order of protection against him and abandoned him and cheated and are taking the kids away. He broke his commitment and contract and you know what? There are consequences when people do that.
I think it's great that your in a state where there is a deterrent for your husbands behavior.
just something to consider.
Juju, I hear you and I could have posted the same.
I agree with much of what you say.
There are a couple of reasons why I'm working to get the truth out of WH, but I don't want to post too much about that here. But yes, I'm not going to keep calling him or talking to him much, it's not good for me. And you're right, I'm trying to get him to comfort me and he's the perpetrator. I said as much to him when I was there and found out about the A a little over a year ago. I remember looking at him and saying, I want you to hug me and make it all go away but you're the one who is doing it so you can't comfort me. And then I cried harder than I can remember ever for most of the night, alone in my bedroom.
There may not be anything I can do legally at this point. I have signed a S agreement and transferred the house to him. He tricked me.
I agree with your Suzy Homewrecker comment but I personally found solace in hearing what her life is like now. She used to be into self-care and pedicures and posting silly selfies on FB. Now she's scrubbing my H's toilet and getting up in the middle of the night to make him lunch. I say she deserves it. Especially when he starts yelling at her, too - which he actually said he knew might happen (he brought that up).
The waking up at 4:30 came out of my questions, he didn't volunteer it. He says it's like a partnership, it's not about passion. He just wants the peace and quiet and no demands of any kind.
Checking in from the T's waiting room. I haven't cried in 4 hours. New personal best in the last 5 days.
I went to work to do a phone conference training, so that was distracting. Then grocery shopping and I managed to not break down there.
A thought hit me. WH said he originally planned to wait 6 months before getting into a new R or have OW move up (yeah, right) but that OW had to move up there sooner because she was broke. Supposedly, she retired early because it was such a horrific job, then lived off her retirement which is now almost gone, and has only a small pension to cover her credit card payment and car payment. She has not enough to live off after, it sounds like! She lived rent-free in her parent's house (a trust) because she had a bankruptcy.
So - this brings me to WH's savior complex! He did the same thing with me - but he thought I needed saving more than I did. I was a single mom, but managed well on my own. He was very proud over what he offered me.
Something here about getting a woman he feels he can save to come keep house for him in a dependency dynamics? Not wanting an equal?
Men like to be needed by their woman. It's not that they don't want an equal, but it gives them a purpose. And with how many women walk away from marriages and decide they don't need men, I can see why men might try to 'protect' themselves by having a woman dependent on them financially. That doesn't work anyway, XW proves that because between divorce attorneys and government help no one truly suffers consequences for their choices in our country anyway.
I know you'll have to spin a little, but I'd really try to avoid diagnosing WAH. Family of origin issues, personality disorders, faulty belief systems, all of that. It's a very destructive road to go down. When you find yourself thinking about it let go of those thoughts.
Not that I'm defending him. I'm on record of saying that I put WAS's at the same level as murderers, they effectively killed your spouse and destroyed your family. No reason to defend that action. But the emotions that drive that chain of thought are all pretty negative and come from a dark, dark place.
Instead replace those thoughts with things you are appreciative in your life. Appreciation has been my savior. I could look at the gaping hole in my soul, but instead I choose to focus on what I have been given. The more I focus on what I've been given the more fulfilled I have been, much more than before. But though I have 'less', I've been forced to learn to appreciate what I have, and that has been a blessing and has made my life better.
I know you are at rock bottom so I'm not chiding you. Just remember, one measure of a person is how they behave at their worst. This is your worst. Time to show your beliefs by how you conduct yourself, even privately, during the worst pain you'll hopefully ever experience in your life. It's normal to think about this a little, but don't feed that fire.
Keep posting P. We are all here with you.
The waking up at 4:30 came out of my questions, he didn't volunteer it. He says it's like a partnership, it's not about passion. He just wants the peace and quiet and no demands of any kind.
I definatly see some similarities in our husbands, although I didn't have to deal with the pain of having an affair thrown in my face (although some pretty big suspicions)
It makes one feel completely disposable to be valued for something like that. I totally relate! Is it a weird engineer thing? My husband actually told me something like, he could never meet my needs for physical and emotional affection and I could never meet his needs for domestic support. That neither of us are compatible. When I asked him what he was looking for he actually told me "someone like my mother" . ( I am the first to admit his mother is superwoman )
Zues, my husband never wanted to be needed. I am pretty sure he would never go for someone that was dependent on him. (Our finances were always kept separate and we divided most things up) He told me he would never even get a pet because he didn't want the responsibility. He was not needy either though. Very independent.
I understand the desire to diagnose and understand the how's and whys of our spouses. I agree it really doesn't make a difference or solve anything though..unfortunatly.
Sorry for hijacking.
I
Painter I hope that you are having a peaceful evening and that your therapist was able to help you gain some additional clarity about what you are going through right now.
I don't know how you are managing to handle so much contact with your H. You are one tough cookie, because I'm pretty sure I'd be down for the count. Instead, you are getting out of bed and going out and doing your job, getting yourself to an appointment, buying groceries. That shows some serious fortitude, my dear. Yes, you're crying, too, but you are one incredible woman.
I agree with Zeus and JuJuB that thinking too much about H's mental state isn't worth much of your time. His head is much too crowded for you to try to get in there, too. It's natural to want to try to understand the other person, but the truth is that you really can't. As my father says, you can't rationalize with an irrational person. In that same vein, I think that a moral person of integrity will never really be able to understand a person who lies and cheats. Your minds just works too differently.
I hope that you get some sleep tonight, Painter.
Sending you a huge hug.
I wrote a long post and then changed my mind. I am processing so many painful thoughts and memories right now, and am beating myself up about the mistakes I made during the M.
I saw the T today and she says I have to remember that regardless what mistakes I made, I was always willing to work on them, see counselors, ask H what he wanted and needed, etc. He wasn't willing to do the work or didn't believe it was possible.
I'll be going to bed shortly before the tears start again, have much work to do from home tomorrow.
Phoebe, it's odd - regardless what H does, we maintain some strange state of friendship. I think I'm grasping for some kind of reason I can understand for what happened. When things get irrational and I can't comprehend them, I get frightened and anxious so I keep trying to get out of that state by finding the thing that will explain it to me.
Had another long chat with WH today. It was just pleasant small talk for the most part. Some info about his life now with OW. He doesn't ask about my life, except when I told him it feels a little micromanaged at work and I may look for something else, then he took an interest and sympathized.
I told him about my thoughts about how in our early relationship, and through several years, I didn't realize that he felt that he wasn't good enough. My attempts to 'fix' or 'improve' was experienced by him as criticism and judgement. I said I was very sorry about that, that I wasn't sensitive to his feelings at that time. He was very amazed and I could tell he felt validated. He said it was exactly what he felt.
The problem was that I didn't realize that he saw everything he owned as an extension of himself. If I wanted to fix something in the house, he saw it as if he wasn't good enough. He puts very high value on everything he owns, even if his friend who is a professional contractor tells him to discard a tool that is simply broken beyond repair, WH will hold on to it and insist it is fine.
I see how I contributed to his resentment building over the years by not realizing how much he identified with his belongings.
This wasn't a part of explaining away his choice to have an A or in any way mitigate or excuse it. But it was good for me to talk about it and acknowledge it. It has bothered me and it came up in C yesterday. The C said that regardless which flaws or problems we had, the difference was that I was willing to do the work, get help, while he was not willing or able to look at things and work through them. That's right, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't look at myself and try to work on tendencies I have that are not positive in a relationship.
H called me on the way home from work. He was actually annoyed that someone else had called him when he left and kept him on the phone, so he didn't have more time to talk with me! We continued a little where we left off earlier and talked a little about the early years. I told him that he was always good enough, that neither of us were of course perfect, but that I never, ever considered him not good enough. It actually sounded like a burden lifted off of him. He said he appreciated hearing it and thanked me. And he apologized for something I said I had felt some resentment for.
A little later I asked him if he would do me a favor - tell SD that it was wrong of him to ask her to keep his secrets. He really didn't like that. He said that he told her when she was there that she should keep in contact with me. (How can she do that while keeping his secrets.) He also tried to say it was now all out so what's the point. I said I thought it was important that he specified it. And that nobody would think lesser of him for trying to make some amends, on the contrary. He said he would do it.
I didn't say it to him, but I'm sure there will be future secrets (a wedding?) and him saying it outright to her will make a difference.
Well, you are a better woman than I am, Painter. I'm not sure I could have handled those conversations
Just today I was talking about how not hearing a word from H in weeks has been a good thing for me. I know that whenever there is contact again that it will be extremely difficult, so I am just taking every day without contact and trying to get myself into a better, more resilient place.
You, my dear, are knee deep in it and you are hanging in there. Amazing.
I hope that today has brought some relief from the tears and pain, and that you get some good quality sleep tonight.
(((Painter)))
My counselor keeps mentioning that I am very emotionally strong.
I have cried a lot less the last two days. Still using meds to get through the day, but I can tell I need it more because I get *really* sleepy and woozy! May switch to Tylenol soon.
We all have to handle this the way that works for us. If NC is your saving grace, stick to it.
It helps me to talk to H, partly because he says things that remind me why I wasn't happy with him. It also helps affirm for me that he is not necessary for my survival, because I am stronger and more clear-headed than him, and make better choices.
That should be 'need it less' about the meds...
It's interesting that talking to him reinforces the idea that he is not good for you. I can see then why it would be a good thing in that case.
I'm afraid that I would come to the opposite conclusion if I were to talk to my H because that has been my life-long habit, to cling and to go back for any offering of crumbs.
Definitely back off on the meds if they're hitting you that hard. Yikes! Still, I'm glad that you took them when you needed them.
Sleep well, Painter.
Oh, I was definitely clinging for crumbs and still am - but the more we talk, the more I encounter those times where I feel really removed from him. Like when I asked him if he at all had considered simply not doing the things that would hurt me so, instead of doing them and then lying. "No."
Or when I am deeply honest and sincere, and tell him how much I regret not understanding how he perceived my approach when we first married, and that I understand I made him feel not good enough - and he throws it in my face a few minutes later, when I asked him to say to SD that she shouldn't have to keep his secrets - 'You're not listening, just like you didn't listen then.' I said I thought it was a blow below the belt and I think he agreed because he calmed down. But the angry lashing out is something he just does.
I'm falling asleep right here - got to go to bed.
Sleep well and take your pill before it is too late!
Woke with a start before 7, another dream about H but can't remember exactly what. At least I slept through the night. Thunder and rain outside. Good day to work from home and cuddle with the pets.
Yesterday, I went with my son and set up my reflexology room at the massage therapy place where I will rent a couple of days a week. Chatted for a while with a really nice acupuncturist who works there. Look so much forward to starting with my first clients! Helping sick people is a great way of taking my mind off my own misery.
Be well today my dear painter.
Service to others is great medicine for healing our souls.
(((painter)))
Hi Painter
It sounds like your starting to do better. I am so glad.
You are right that we all have to handle this the way that works best for us. I am kind of like phoebe. I actually feel a little sick when I receive husbands texts.
For me, It is all or nothing. I feel really strong about this and I would prefer no contact for the rest of our lives. We do have to coparent though. It's tough because I want son to have good relationship with his father for sons sake, but I just don't want to talk to husband. I dread any text or communication with him. I actually get that pit feeling in my stomach when we have to.
I am sure husband feels the same way about me.
Wonder if this goes away with time?
Or you get used to living with the pit... It seems to have been there for two years for me, coming and going a little.
I notice that I get shaky when WH gets angry at me. That's the worst part for me. I shouldn't care at this point but I can't stand it when he shuts me out or is angry. Maybe because it's been that way for so many years that I'm stuck in that pattern.
I was reading an article about gaslighting and a lot of what H did fell into that category, although I don't think he was calculating when he did it like it was in the movie. But a lot of 'you're overreacting', 'just let it go/stop beating a dead horse', etc. when I reacted to his angry outburst and rages and he felt he was done venting. Eventually, I started shutting down when it happened and I was then accused of 'not showing any emotion'.
Sorry, think I went off on a tangent there...
Tangents are good, Painter. Letting your mind do some exploring can take you just where you need to go sometimes to gain new insight or understanding.
You really do sound a lot better today. I like to hear that you are looking forward to helping your new clients and working in your new space. That's really great!
I hope that you get a good night's sleep, preferably sans dreams of H.
Painter,
The pit will go away when it is ready to go away. Just because it has been there for so long means that you are a loving and caring person no matter how bad the H is.
Sleep well and enjoy the weekend!
Morning, all... Woke with a start at 5am, as usual. Too early, and with the realization that this is really happening and not just a bad dream. It feels surreal.
Discussed narcissism last night with someone who was in an abusive relationship with one, and then read several articles about it. WH fits in many, many ways. I think perhaps many who are in the middle of an affair can act like narcissist, but I wonder if he was one all along. My T thinks he sounds like he has many of the traits, and although I don't want to put him in a box and diagnose him, it has a huge impact on whether I should continue DBing with any though of ever saving the M or if I should put as much distance as possible between us and count myself lucky I got out.
Let go of any and all thoughts of saving your M. Let those die.
You can continue to DB and change your own behavior in the sense of trying to be a better person for yourself. But forget the idea of him changing his behavior in response to anything you do. Do what you do for you, accept his decisions, and detach from him emotionally.
This is what we're supposed to do on day 1. Unfortunately that isn't possible. In my case it took a much larger BD to wake me up to reality after which I was able to go down my own road.
And no, WH wasn't a narcissist. Just part of a culture that endorses this crap to the point that OW can post pictures of her with your WH and others can 'like' them. If anyone has a personality disorder it is our country.
Zues, I'm not thinking at all about him changing his behavior in response to anything I do. That wasn't even on my mind. I'm at a point where I am changing rather abruptly from grieving over losing all hope and my lost M and the shock over him moving OW in, to realizing that he is in fact a narcissist and has been all along, and I am lucky to get out because he can't have a real relationship.
Some people are actual narcissists and people who try to understand, analyze and help, get caught up in it.
It explains a lot of what he did over the years, way before OW, way before things started getting really bad. It explains why he answered, when the first year we were married I asked him why it seemed like he treated his ex-wife with more respect than he treated me, 'I'm not afraid of you'. Narcissists only treat people they are afraid of, well.
It explains why he was resentful with his D when she moved in with her BF, and refused to visit her when she asked him. He said she could come to see him - but she didn't have a car so she couldn't. He didn't care, and didn't see her for almost a year.
It also explains why he didn't tell her that OW had moved in before she came to visit, but saved it as a 'surprise'. He knew she would disapprove and wouldn't give her the chance to bow out. He did not care about her feelings at all. It also explains why he thought SD would be happy swapping me out for OW, having no thoughts of the actual emotional connection I have with my SD.
It explains why every time I wanted emotional closeness through the entire M, he reacted with either rage or withdrawal (that's what narcissists do).
It fits with him focusing his energies on negative thoughts - talking badly about others, raging about politics, drivers, not getting the proper respect at work for his superior skills (he does feel he knows more than anyone else and gets enraged if they don't respect his knowledge), etc.
It explains why he seemed to appreciate some part of me while other, seemingly similar parts caused resentment. I just realized that everything he could show off to others, he liked. Any interest I had that took my focus away from him, caused resentment. He says the M started breaking down for him when I went into business for myself.
He has repeatedly expressed jealousy of the pets, that I treated them too well. He says I feel too much. I have too much empathy and care too much about the world.
And it fits with refusing to show me affection while still being angry over not getting his own needs met. And admitting that he was unwilling to compromise on anything. Narcissists are okay with who they are, they don't feel bad about it or want to change.
There's so much more... Have to go to work. I will discuss this with my T but I actually feel a lot of relief right now.
I should clarify that this is not a new thought to me (or others who know him). Even he has an idea - last year he said he thought something might be wrong with him because he didn't feel much empathy. I suggested he read about narcissism.
But with the distance and the extreme recent behavior, I revisited the thought and found a well of information that completed the picture that was half done already. It just took me so aback.
I'm going to talk to our MC.
My H told me that he went through a set of online tests for narcissism and also to see if he was a sociopath. He mentioned this after I discovered his affair.
It was very strange that he brought it up, and he had to point out that neither model seemed to fit him. On the other hand it showed that he recognized that on some level he should feel much worse about his behavior than he actually does.
Anyway, back to your sitch: How does identifying this character trait change things for you, Painter? I hope that doesn't sound brusque, because I am not being critical in the slightest about this line of thought that you are following now. I'm genuinely curious. You felt like you lost your last bit of hope a few days ago. Does recognizing his narcissism help you put his behavior into a broader context? Does it give you a better understanding of the path your R took? If it helps you to sort things out, then I say do the research.
I know that understanding the timeline of my H's waywardness helped me make more sense out of the changes I felt in our R over the last couple years. Hindsight is very powerful.
Sleep well dear Painter.
I think it helps me realize that I can let completely go, because nothing I could do would have changed a thing. The only thing that might have improved the M was if I completely eradicated myself as a person and lived only to please him. It would have involved superhuman abilities like mindreading. So obviously not an option. But that is what OW is trying.
What happened was inevitable, given this, and I see how his previous marriages have followed the same path and the next one will, too.
It doesn't mean I was perfect or was not at fault or couldn't have been more understanding or sensitive - but it does mean that much of what I felt was valid and much of H's behavior was out of line. But I have learned so much about myself and what I want to do differently in another R and that I have to learn what a healthy R looks like.
I wonder if your H experienced the lack of empathy that I think an affair can bring with it. Maybe it wasn't there before. In my H's case, the narcisstic pattern was there all the time, I just didn't do anything about it because I really didn't have many options (financially dependent in a foreign country with no family).
Interesting. I'm glad that this new understanding of his character has brought with it a lot of understanding about the dynamics of your M and the trajectory that it took. It sounds like you have come s long ways in a very short time and you sound much stronger. I'm glad because I was worried about you!
If lack of empathy is typical of an affair, then that might help explain things a bit for me, because I never would have identified my H as someone with less than normal empathy. His ability to be empathetic was one of the things that drew me to him in the first place.
I knew a lot of this, so I think that's why it's like a cabal where you suddenly lay down all the cards in sequence.
It was just difficult to see it clearly with H there. I knew it was wrong, I just kept blaming myself, I guess. Thinking that if I did something differently, if we talked about it, if we changed something, it would change.
I think it's inherently narcissistic to be in an A. You can't have full empathy for your S and go through with it.
I think the ones who regret it and realize what they did, have a stronger psyche or character than those who stay in their distorted version of events.
H can be very generous and warm if he feels like it. But it's not a consistent trait and not reliable.
Well, well, well... OW has posted since February (before we agreed to S) pictures of her huge engagement ring and got friends to vote on wedding dresses.
(((Painter)))
I am so sorry. I really am. I imagine seeing this is like pouring salt on the wounds.
The betrayal and lies are just awful and I know there is nothing I can say to make you feel better, but I just want you to know that I understand how truly horrible this is. Your husbands actions are really deplorable. Again, I am so sorry.
Painter,
I am sorry you saw those posts. I don't know what is worse sometimes, seeing FB pics of WAS or not knowing anything they are doing at all.
All I know is that we are better than our WAS as we are able to recognize our faults and accept that we are not perfect while they go out and use others to feed their ego. At times I feel bad for these people because that is not the way to find happiness in life.
I hope you sleep well tonight Painter.
(((Painter)))
At this point, I wouldn't want H back if you paid me $1,000,000. Or more.
I just find it absolutely fascinating that he got engaged to another woman *before we had even agreed to separate*, and she posted about this *while* he was telling me that there was no contact.
But we know now that he lies every single step of the way and only backs down when confronted with evidence. And then he says, 'But I didn't want to hurt you.'
Painter,
I'd like you to want your H back. I am willing to pay $1,000,000. Let me know,
Z
Disregard, didn't see your prior post...
I guess I just don't know what else to say right now.
I do sometimes wonder what life the grieving process is like for those WAS's that have another R lined up before they leave or grieve.
I mean, they are still suffering a huge loss. But they're medicating like crazy. Does the pain still penetrate the medication? Does it hit doubly in a year when the dazzle wears off? Or do they somehow escape the loss altogether because they're doped up enough to make it through?
I don't know why that matters, but I confess I'm curious. I sometimes hope they suffer, but then I think they probably don't as much because a committed M clearly doesn't mean as much so the loss maybe isn't as painful. Then I stop caring because I wouldn't want to be able to get in the mind of a WAS and would rather be soul crushed and single for life than to live like that.
The sad fact is that no matter how much they suffer if and when they do, it won't change the pain you have to endure at their hands. At this point all I care about is you Painter. Thank you for sharing what you're going through so we can be here for you.
I don't think they suffer that much, even if they do eventually regret. My WW STBXW made weird statements to self medicate like "if we ever get back together" writhing weeks of S. I think they see it as over as soon as they BD, so it's full steam ahead with the new... Or, I can always go back to LBS if I change my mind.. My WW still blames me for everything that didn't work in her eyes, so that has to be easy to leave...
That is truly deplorable what your H has done. An engagement ring given while fully married? That is about as low as you can sink.
I think our spouses are in a race to the bottom. That 'I didn't want to hurt you' bs is all too familiar and is beyond old got us both. It's such a complete cop out.
I hope you get some good quality sleep tonight, Miss Painter.
Thank you, Phoebe. I hope you get some sleep, too.
I will start a new thread, but first:
Old thread - key moment My post from 2/26 about H coming home from a week's business trip - the next day OW posted the photo of her engagement ring.
Zues, I don't think I was the WAS at that point. I think I sensed exactly what was going on and couldn't stand being exploited anymore.
I thought you were talking about how I was thinking like a WAS - in a post on the next page. It is just interesting to me to see that I must actually have picked up on exactly what was going on, even if I didn't know it.
Oh my goodness - I just don't understand that. How on earth do people think it's okay...guys, look at my lovely engagement ring & let's vote on a wedding dress...yes my fiancé just needs to resolve the small issue of his existing W from whom he isn't yet separated....
I'm shaking my head here - and Painter I'm sorry you had to see that. It's the worst example of immaturity and deceit.
In my sitch, I just decided that my XH's poor decisions in no way diminish me. I'm not perfect by any means, but I'm not striving for perfection - just to be someone I can live with.
Take care my lovely xx
Please start a new thread.