NYGal: A New Chapter and Hopeful!

Old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...170#Post2671170

I like the title of your new thread, NYGal!! It sounds like a good direction.

Things are looking up and we are moving into the treacherous waters of reconciliation. I can see how fragile this new phase is already. OW is out of the picture. But not completely out of W'sthoughts. She is grieving that, which I understand is normal. She says adamantly that she's done w her, and that she has known from the beginning it wasn't right. But I can tell she's not feeling real strong yet.

I've said over and over that I don't want her to come back to me because she doesn't want to be alone. But I'm pretty sure all her temp checking, especially recently, was to make sure if she ended it with ow that she wouldn't be alone.

She says she wants to work toward a resumption of our R, but I know she's still frightened and not confident.

She says I'm her anchor, and that she needs me.I feel the same. How do we get through these tough conversations and still manage to have some fun?

When she tells you that she's grieving, perhaps you could valudate her feelings?

Has she told you what she is afraid of?

Maybe you could keep these serious R talks to a scheduled time and scheduke fun dates where no R talks are allowed?

She hasn't said specifically what she's afraid of. She says she has low level depression. She feels weak. Wants to make sure she has integrity. Maybe she is afraid of us failing again as a couple.

She said she never got over me and would wake up every morning and think of me. She wants it to work for us. I think she's out of the fog.

How do I be the lighthouse?

Nygal, I think there are aspects of dbing you should stick to. Acting as if, GALing, 180s and monitoring what works.

While you don't need to go dark or even dim now, you could perhaps still keep your hand on the dimmer switch. Match your brightness to W's, and see how she reacts.

I do think that your W needs to work out her issues though but I don't think you need to solve them all at once.

You go girl!

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I've said over and over that I don't want her to come back to me because she doesn't want to be alone. But I'm pretty sure all her temp checking, especially recently, was to make sure if she ended it with ow that she wouldn't be alone.

So are you OK with that?

Originally Posted By: NYGal

She says I'm her anchor, and that she needs me.I feel the same.

That you need her? How will you break yourself of that?

Hi Nygal

I am so so happy to hear that things are heading in such a positive direction.

There will be a lot of feelings coming up for both of you as you start to spend time together. They will be uncomfortable for sure... Fear, hurt, guilt, anger etc. Please consider using a good (get referrals, it is so important) couples therapist to help navigate the feelings so you both are aware and less reactive.

Please read some of the stories on here of couples who made it. Realitytrip and Labug are two good ones.

And most importantly, keep GALing and working on you. Reconciliation can be a bumpy ride and W has her own work to do too..you will need strength, courage and wisdom. Keep using DB principles and posting to help you navigate your emotions.

And smile today Nygal.. Smile a lot. Then do the work of looking inward and growing.

Ps.. Your update made me smile today too.

My advice is to clear your mind. I find that when I clear my mind, answers usually come to me.

I understand that W's fear of being alone is something she's got to work on. So I'm ok with that for now. But I'm not interested in being in a R with her if it's for that reason. That won't work. We both agree we want any new R to be good for us both, fulfilling, mature, fun, and that it will involve lots of love and taking care of each others' heart.

Some of her doubt came through in a text. She sent me a heart and said she was thinking about me this morning. By the time I responded, her flight had already taken off (she's traveling a lot the next two weeks.) I sent a pic of sunshine and a plane taking off, and said "safe travels". Her response? Nice of you to still care. Just landed!
Not sure if that was sarcasm or self-doubt, or neither! I think it's important to strike a balance between caring and detachment. We are both feeling vulnerable.

I will read Realitytrip again, and Labug is one I've not read yet. Thanks, all.

Can't find either Realitytrip or Labug. Seems the search is not working.

Hi NYGal! I'm so happy to read your new title and all that has been going on with you! I agree that you still need to DB but maybe not as dark. I don't know if you recall but I'm on my second trip to this site and I really do feel that I let H back way to easily last time because I was just so thrilled that he wanted to come back at all. I didn't set boundaries and let him walk all over me - I definitely regret being such a doormat about his return.

That said though, I see lots of positive signs for you and W and I'm so happy for you! Keep calm! You sound like you are not going to just cave in and be all hearts and flowers straight away, which I think is good, take it slowly! Keeping everything crossed for you!

There you go!

topics by labug

I haven't been round the newcomers for a while and I can't tell you how pleased I am for you. You knew all along that you were meant to be together, and you did/ still doing all you can to start afresh. I have no advice to give you, but I'm so pleased for you that things are getting better. You have been such a great support for me and I will follow all your new exciting news.

Take care my friend :-)

Hi NYG, I'm glad things have taken a more positive turn. From your POV, I would aim for warm and open - and equally very much in favour of taking things slow.

I would certainly think it's a good idea to dip a toe in and start some tentative dating for a few months to see how steady things seem with her. If she gets drawn back to OW during that time, you can back right off as it's boundary time.

However, if she is consistent, you can warm things up a little more. What I wouldn't do at this early stage is trust. I would merely be open to possible R and willing to see how things go. But bear in mind - given her recent choices - she has just joined the ranks of any woman you may choose (or not choose) to develop a R with.

So, all good I think as long as you bear in mind the things that have real value - not words, or actions today - but time and consistency - and it's early days thus far.

Please don't even consider giving up your own place or moving back in together. You have plenty of time to see how things go and for you to move at a pace where you are comfortable and reassured.

Take care xx

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement. I know these next few days and weeks feel like I'm sliding on banana peels but I have to keep my wits about me!
And thanks for finding the labug posts for me!

well!!!!!!!

give us some good news!

Still making progress. We are texting and calling, but still taking it slowly. Most importantly, ow is out of the picture. W says she is feeling better than she thought she would this week about everything. She does most of the initiating, but I do respond to her texts within a reasonable amount of time. She mentioned that she thought it was rude of ow to wait "sometimes 9 hours" to respond to texts, and said she was glad I never did that... so, sometimes that technique can backfire, friends.

We've reached a point where we are being gentle and kind to each other. One night she texted and asked me to call. Then she called two times. I was in a meditation class, so didn't get the messages until later. When I texted back that I would be able to call her back after 9, she said ok. Then she texted again and said she was going to bed. But she was also thoughtful enough to add, "Nothing to worry about. Just tired. Let's talk tomorrow."

I think at this stage, it's very important to focus on kindness and understanding. She does most of the talking and I do most of the listening. I do tell her when things she's saying make me uncomfortable so that we can talk it through. Like when she said she doesn't see her having a friendship with ow, but maybe sometime in the future... I said that might be difficult for me. I said I can work on forgiveness, but I don't want her to be in the picture and threatening our relationship again. She agreed and said she wouldn't ever allow that to happen, so if it means no friendship, that's ok too. I do believe she was just seeing where I am on that issue. I don't believe she wants to be friends w her, and I do believe she doesn't want to hurt me that way. They work together on occasion, so that could be difficult.

W also mentioned that we should talk about possibly living outside of our town for part of the year (i.e. in retirement) and I said I'd be happy to talk about that. (That was a lie. I'd actually be ecstatic to talk about that!)

Twice she has mentioned a trip we had talked about taking with some friends. The first time, I said it might be too early to look into that. She said ok. The second time she brought it up, several days later, I said, do you want to plan that? She said it's probably too early! So we are both being cautious.

No promises have been made yet. This morning she texted and asked if I'm sure I want to take her back, and asked if I can get over her betrayal without retaliating. I texted back a quotation from a book by Desmond Tutu about how forgiveness helps us find freedom from the hatred and anger we sometimes feel when we have been wronged: "...it's the process of taking back and healing our lives so we can truly live."

so question for you.

besides being excited that she wants to start moving things back in the direction of together, How do you feel about the forgiveness and getting over all that has been done and trusting that it wont happen again?

I am very curious on this. I often wonder if I would always be wondering if the bottom falls out again.

By know means trying to scare you, I am actually curious for myself. I know we all need to forgive and move forward but how is that going for you?

At some point, we need to forgive and learn to trust again. I'm not completely back to the trusting. The other night, when W called and said she was depressed and wanted to talk, I had an immediate fear overtake me. My chest hurt, my throat tightened. I was afraid she was going to say she changed her mind again and couldn't live without ow or something. I let her talk. I validated. It had little or nothing to do with ow. When she said what she had to say, I told her how I felt when she started the conversation. I told her that I felt better after we talked about it all. And I let her know that I had fear that she would slide back into something with ow. She reiterated in a firm voice that no, that's "done." I asked, "what if she starts calling and texting you again, do you have the resolve to resist it?" She said yes, that's done. Her willingness to keep talking about it helps me regain the trust.

So, I think when it comes to getting over a betrayal like an A, it's important to ask the questions we need answers to. It's ok not to be detached or pretend to be. It's good to be honest, and loving and kind.

I also believe it's really important to do the deep work it takes to feel strong enough about our own boundaries so that we know we can live without the person if they (or we) mess up again. (I can't say I'm there, but I keep working on my own growth, independence, and inner strength. Easier said than done,and much easier when the partner is wanting to reconcile. It's a continuing growth process.)

I haven't asked her to block ow or refuse to talk to her or anything like that. It's important to W that she feels it's her choice, and that she can do it on her own. She's trying to regain her strength and sense of integrity. So it's not appropriate for me to insist on absolute transparency at this point. If we actually do get back together, before that's even possible we will certainly talk about these issues some more. It's important for the wayward spouse to be willing to do what it takes to BE trustworthy. And it's important that we have the willingness to forgive. Forgiveness and trust require risk, but without risk we are fully alive.

There are plenty of sources out there on how to regain trust and how to forgive. It comes down to the fact that it's better for us if we can let go of that anger and hatred and find peace.

Again, I'm not there completely yet. I don't want to give a false impression. But I work on it all the time.

Forgiveness and trust require risk, but without risk we AREN'T fully alive. -- that's what I meant to say!

Hi NYGal! I'm so happy to read your latest developments. Just wanted to offer something about forgiving/getting over an affair that a MC said to me and WAH after I discovered his EA (PA?) a few years ago. We were still living in the same house so it may have to wait until you reach that point.

What she suggested was that we set aside half an hour a day for me to ask any questions I wanted to ask about the A and talk about how I was feeling. H had to answer openly and honestly etc, then that was it. Done for that day. She said it prevents the WAS from feeling overwhelmed with questions about the affair and constant guilt trips. If they know that it will only be brought up for half an hour a day it is more manageable. Another thing she suggested was to go out together once a week, during which time you are not allowed to talk about the A or day to day issues (like kids in our case). Just having fun and reconnecting.

I think you're handling things brilliantly by not rushing into things.

NYGal, your story is one of such optimism. It's good to hear about someone whose story is getting better. It gives the rest of us a glimmer of something like hope.

We may never get to that point with our spouses, but learning about your healing process is very important. Many, if not most, of us have been deeply betrayed and will need to relearn how to trust if we are to ever recover from this experience.

W asked me this morning if I could trust her again and forgive her.i said yes. The key is how she treats me. If there is love and affection I can feel safe. If not, then that's a different story.

We are talking a lot of R talk. Mostly she initiates. It's good because we need to get some things out. And we are discussing a weekend away in a few weeks. We travel well together. I have to check and see if I can get away the weekend she mentioned. She texted back and said we will find plenty of weekends if that one won't work. 😀

That sounds really good, NYGal.

You're doing well. As for trust, just tell her that takes actions and time. Words are meaningless. She doesn't need to waste time with "I promise you can trust me this time..." We all know words mean nothing. Actions and time is what it takes and she has to know there are no more strikes. She has now gotten a second second chance from you which is very gracious of you. She should know that's rare and she should be thankful for it. I wouldn't give my W a second second chance. If she so much as texted another male, even if it was innocent, and deleted the text so I wouldn't see it, that would be it. I'd be gone. I admire and respect your graciousness. I hope your W appreciates it.

I'm struggling with some jealousy issues. W and I spent a nice afternoon together yesterday, after a nice morning the day before. She had scheduled dinner with a single woman who's an acquaintance and friend of friends last night, so I left the house at about 4:15. Well, the dinner lasted 3 hours, and she called me afterwards to say what a nice person this is -- unlike ow. But I got a little insecure about the comparison.

Some background. We are still taking things slowly, but everything seems to be progressing ok. The biggest hurdle is that she thinks she has ruined my reputation with some friends because of the vile things she has said about me to justify her decision to leave me for ow. She has said some really nice things, though, like that the colors in the garden are so much more vibrant when I'm there with her. But she has also said she wants less "co-dependency" in a R with me. (Then it turns out it was ow who labeled us as co-dependent...) And the way she intends to be less co-dependent is to do things with other people more. So she described the woman she had dinner with as one of those new friends she "needs". She is still dealing with some significant shame over what she did to me/us. And wants to know people still like her. But I find this threatening.

Then this morning she called to say good morning, texted to say "when we get back together let's invite [work colleague] and his wife over for dinner" because he has been so supportive of us as a couple. Then she called again to invite me to a fundraising event. BUT THEN called again to say, oops, double booked, she's going to a birthday party with some mutual friends that night(two of the people she trashed me to...) and she's not ready to be public about our possible reconciliation. So never mind about the fundraiser...

That hurt my feelings. Not sure how to take all this.

I'm sorry, that is definitely inconsiderate. It sounds to me like she is flailing around a little, not sure of what she's doing or wants to do.

I think the dinner out with single, new female (available?) is completely outrageous if she says she wants to reconcile with you. I don't understand where she's coming from with that at all. Did you know about that dinner before you spent the afternoon with her? That would have made me pull completely back.

The co-dependency issues she should discuss with a counselor, or better, the two of you in couples counseling. Maybe there were real issues, and she's trying to get to them. I'd take this seriously and agree to talk about it. Combined with the dinner above, it sounds like she is afraid of being too much a part of a unit and that she somehow has lost herself a little? But doing things separately is not going out with a potential flirt!

The 'when we get back together' sounds to me like she's taking you for granted. I would be tempted to become a lot less available if I were you. I would make very sure she's not envisioning a future in a sort of open relationship.

I can understand not announcing the reconciliation. She was quick to announce the split and the new R with OW, so maybe she learned that it was not a good idea to involve other people in what was going on so quickly. However, the dinner with the friends she trashed you to, would be a great opportunity to tell them that she regrets the things she said and they came out of her own guilt. She doesn't have to say anything about a future R with you.

Just my 2c...

NYGal,

WOW! Sounds like things are heading in a more positive direction.

Be cautious! Piecing things back together is hard work for both of you. Has it been a while since you spoke with your DB Coach? I'm sure your coach will be enormously helpful right now.

You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

Hi NYG, now this is just my take but I suspect your W became fearful of losing you. And things tailed off with OW, so she was dropped. From your positive reaction, your W has become reassured of your availability. However, she's also gone into a bit of a spin. Now she 'has you' - is that what she really wants?

I had a similar thing with my H - the 'friendships' he wanted to pursue were those with young, attractive, single or divorcing women. When I raised concerns, he said I was overreacting and he had female friends and enjoyed their company - blah, blah.

I would suggest drawing back a little. Let yourself become 'the pursued' again - without necessarily saying anything to your W.

Sorry there are some teething problems - but my understanding is - piecing never successfully happens without a rocky road along the way.

Take care xx

Just my humble opinion here...but...I think you're too good for this woman. If you want her then I want you to have her but personally I think you're better off without her. The more you tell us, the less I like her. She treats you badly and that pisses me off.

No, TxHubby, I'm not too good for her. We are all just human with good points and bad points. We are both working on things. She's feeling lost still, but happier now that ow is out of her life. And that I'm back in. She needs friends, because she feels she has alienated everyone by her bad behavior. I'm not happy that she's not inviting me to go to the party with her, but she gets to make those decisions for herself, right? We aren't back together yet, we're still taking things slowly.

Update, we are now in touch every day, either by a phone call or texts or both. We don't see each other every day, even when she is in town. (And she has been away 4/5 workdays for the past two weeks.) We've spent maybe 12 hours together since January. And every one of those hours has been good. Sometimes difficult because we have a lot of talking to do, and sometimes wonderful as it feels so natural to be with her.

I'm still living my life, but am less concerned about being busy every evening. That gives me more time to just veg out or read or spend time with my dogs, or think and ponder or be in touch with my DB friends.

Patience is still key. I don't respond to every text immediately. Yesterday I was feeling a bit insecure because my morning text went unanswered until almost 7 p.m. I did not respond. I was on the phone with a friend when the first of 3 calls and one VM came in. Then my phone died, so it took a while to get back to W. It felt good to know that holding back had an impact. I don't want to be the only one who worries. I always remember, I think it was Annab saying, I'm the prize, and she has to work at winning me back! Of course I want nothing more than for us to be back together, but I do want to be a valuable catch.

So I'm still working on it.

You go girl...you ARE the prize! And you are SO worthy of being wooed and romanced and treated with respect. Not like an option. So glad W is coming around and you're making progress. Keep up the great work!

This is multiple times for her. You're giving her a second second chance. I'd hate for you to get hurt again. You're a better person than I am to tolerate some of these things. I couldn't do it. I'd have to move on and heal. Like I said, I think you're too good for her but I also want you to be happy so if you want her then I hope you and she stay together. You do need to define your boundaries and don't put up with them being violated.

Not sure what you mean TXHubby. We are discussing reconciling and working toward that for the first time. We aren't there yet. We are talking every day I guess and texting, and sending some hearts back and forth, so all good signs.

I think this is the time for us to be gentle and considerate with each other.

Therapy, coaching, etc. does get pricey. What I've mostly done is read a lot of people's experiences (and I mean A LOT) and deeply considered what worked for them, what didn't work for them, what was working for me, what wasn't working for me. I found that very helpful. I think we all have to tweak the scripts for dealing with these types of things to fit our own situation. My wife was a cheater but she didn't do all the things that cheaters are supposed to do. She was an individual and followed her own cheating path so we had to follow our own path to healing. You do too. You're both smart. You'll figure it out.

I may be remembering wrong but I thought you said that she had done something like this to you years ago as well. If this is the first time then all is well. Everyone deserves a second chance. No one deserves a third.

There is no time limit or expiration date on healing a relationship unless you, or her, imposes one. Nothing wrong with proceeding slow and cautiously. No hurry. Good luck.

Hiya, NYGAL!

I am encouraged in reading about the slow reconnection with W. Slow and steady is the name of the game. We've seen far too many LBS being too quick in taking back the WAS and not making the WAS do the hard, difficult work of looking at themselves in straying from the M.

Please keep this in the back pocket: When you and W are ready for MC down the road, you might want to begin looking into Gottman based MC therapist in your area so you can call and do your own interviews so all of this will be ready for you two at the right time.

In my mind, I think it would be extremely helpful AND beneficial for you to go back and read all of RealityTrip's threads for I do see striking similarities between your situations. RT was a real DB Champ!!!

And as far as I know from being around here, RT's story is apparently the only gay marriage that was successfully DB'd.

Wonka, thanks for stopping by, as Kate Clinton would say...
I can't find RealityTrip's thread. My search function isn't working. Anyone have the link? I did read it once before, and I know she's a pro - as is Thornton!

TXHubby, no she never did this to me before but she did to someone else.

She really seems to be on the path to coming back to me. But she's still making plans with friends and not inviting me. I don't think I should push her on this, but it's for the next three weekends and I don't like it. To be fair, we do have plans to attend a party together with some friends on Sunday (not the friends she trashed me to), and she did say she'd look for me tomorrow just to say hi at a big event we'll both be attending. But my support network has sort of dried up for this weekend, I'm afraid being alone will make my mind do crazy things (worry and make stuff up), and I guess I could use some concrete advice on how best to navigate this specific situation.

Is this a social event, like a party? If so, don't sulk alone. Be a social butterfly and commit to meeting three new people you don't know and learning something interesting about each one.

I think it's important to maintain your own GAL activities at this point. It sounds like you are already having expectations that she will meet your GAL needs and it is early days in terms of that.

Maybe reach out to some of your 'rebuilding' chums and see who wants to get together this weekend? I think it is important to stay on track with the GAL regardless of the ultimate outcome.

Hope you manage to have a nice weekend xx

Originally Posted By: Sotto

I think it's important to maintain your own GAL activities at this point. It sounds like you are already having expectations that she will meet your GAL needs and it is early days in terms of that.

Maybe reach out to some of your 'rebuilding' chums and see who wants to get together this weekend? I think it is important to stay on track with the GAL regardless of the ultimate outcome.

Hope you manage to have a nice weekend xx

!

I agree - don't stop doing what's working, it was never meant to be a temporary fix.

Thanks everyone. I made dinner plans with friends, and I will skip yoga tomorrow. W and I had talked about going but I was non-commital.

It's a rainy weekend and so I'm napping and watching House of Cards. I do need to keep GAL activities going and be a bit mysterious. I've been too available and too willing to engage in the R talk and tell her how hard it was for me these past few months. No more! NY 2.0 is stronger and independent and having fun! I hope!!!

I am happy to hear this. It seemed for a minute you were just buying in to whatever she was saying since you were getting her attention again. Make her chase you!

Update: We talked about me moving back home on June 15th. But she's wavering. She says all the right things: she loves me, she realizes she has been selfish and greedy and that the world doesn't revolve around her. But then she tells me maybe I should wait until July 1, after her sister has come for a visit at the end of June. So we're really talking only two weeks difference.

It seems she is so ashamed of trashing me to friends that now she's having trouble justifying why she would want to get back together with me. What other people thinks is very important to her, despite what she says to the contrary.

What do I do? I've already told my housemate I'm moving out by June 15th and she's looking for someone to move in. I could probably figure out a temporary solution so that W can have her long weekend alone with her sister... but it just feels weird that I have to be hidden.

She says she's completely done with ow, doesn't even want to talk to her, and that she's feeling happier and much better about that more quickly than she thought.

It's so hard for me to be patient at this point. This weekend she's already informed me that she's busy Friday and Saturday, so we'll get together on Sunday. And I'm going to tell her that I have plans for Sunday evening, plans with my divorce group friends. But what I really want is to spend evenings with her watching our old shows and just relaxing and drinking tea and talking and laughing. I have to be patient. She says she wants that too.

You decide what is best for YOU. Two weeks is nothing in terms of this process but don't just go along with Ws ideas. If moving back suit you best in June, do so in June.

If you feel the extra two weeks is to your advantage, agree.

I am just saying that NYGal is stronger more confident and definitely no doormat.

Best wishes

Tread carefully, NYGal. W is being much too wishy washy, IMO. These are not the actions of someone who has whole heartedly made the decision to recommit to your M. After the things she has put you through to this point, she should be going out of her way to accommodate, include, and make you happy. Her concerns about what other people think of her, and putting off your return to the marital home strongly suggest that her focus is still on herself rather than you...and that's the kind of selfishness that led her into an affair in the first place. What's more important...what others think of her, or what YOU think of her (and making amends for the terrible way she treated you)?

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but to me, it sounds like she is still wavering. Was the breakup with OW her decision? If she wants you back, she needs to get over her adolescent preoccupation with others opinion and prioritize you and your marriage. Otherwise, this just smacks of more of the same behavior she's been engaging in all along...giving you just enough to keep you from detaching entirely, but nothing even close to what you rightfully deserve. Don't let her do that to you. You deserve more than the crumbs of someone's love.

Wonderful advice. Thanks Anna and Roist!

I absolutely agree with annab74. That is not the behavior of someone who really wants to commit and make up for what they have done to you. She should have no thought of what other people think if she is truly where she says she is about your relationship. Be careful NYGal. Protect your heart and do what's right for you first. You are the one steering the ship now, not her.

I don't like this at all, either. I'm sorry you gave notice - you need to have your options open. If your housemate hasn't found anyone, can you tell her you need to stay? How about you take charge and make a decision for yourself, so you're not at the mercy of W's whims?

Honestly, I think I would have let a lot more time go by and made some demands in order to move back in. Like putting you on the deed of the house so she can't just kick you out again, or set up a contract for a commonlaw M so you have legal protection. Have you thought about getting your own place at all?

This wasn't a bad dream... It really happened, and none of you will be able to turn the clock back by having you move back in. You can't climb back into the cocoon...

I hate seeing you so dependent on her decision. And I've been there and it was awful. I hope for your sake that you find back together, but I think she needs to do more work on herself, and you could benefit from really feeling independent.

(((NYGal)))

Ding, ding!! Anna and Painter have spoken for all of us who read your latest update, NYGal, much more eloquently than any one of us could here. My initial reaction was, "No, don't be in such a rush to move back in with W." We have seen several reconciliations come apart at the seams because the LBS takes back the WAS far too quickly.

You've been on your own only....what...2 or 3 months? It is not your job to make W feel better or swoop in to soothe those feelings of discomfort. This is why it's so so critical that the WAS work through those emotions and figure out their chit FIRST before reconciliation occurs. I'm worried that you two will be engaging in rug sweeping without the hard work in examining the patterns and working on forging a new path WOTHOUT the expert guidance of a professional. Preferably one who is a solutions-based marital therapist i.e. Gottman.

I'd highly suggest that you find one asap. This isn't the time to approach with a DIY mindset. Otherwise you two will fall apart and you will be really hurt.

Hi NYG, I have to say I agree with what others have posted. It doesn't sound as though you guys are yet in a place to make such a big move as you are suggesting and I'm also concerned that her behaviour indicates she's not 'all in' at this point. I think you would be best staying put and extending your current arrangements if possible.

A former poster - Starsky - always used to say....the number one mistake the LBS makes is letting them come back too easily...

I think you would be wise to step back here, give yourself/yourselves some time here and see how things go. From what you post, she is sounding pretty conflicted still.

Take care and look after yourself

x

Well, I'm doubling my efforts to buy a town house or condo so o can move into my own place. I can always rent it later. Part of my desire to move back home is my beautiful garden. I don't want to miss a whole season of its glory! But I hear you all.im going to continue to GAL and not be always available. In fact I've made plans for Sunday night, which I suspect will be a surprise to W, since that's the only night she's free this weekend.

Will it ever return to just a comfortable, secure M where we can just relax and not worry? Actually, I am so grateful that we've come this far. I'm lucky. I can take the uncertainty.At least we're heading in the right direction.

It may never return to a comfortable M, but maybe that is some of the reason there were issues in the first place. I hear Ms are hard work and your have to strive to keep it alive every day. If it's meant to be, it will be and all of this time is just a blip on the radar of a very long happy life.

Well, it better be a comfortable M. I hope that isn't asking too much! LOL! But yes, I do know that all relationships can be hard. We're all just so darn human. Thanks for all the good advice. We are still progressing along the road to full reconciliation. We check in at least once every day. I'm still maintaining my GAL activities, and enjoying the good morning and good night texts, as well as our little sweet names for each other.

I take very seriously the admonition to take it slowly and be careful. I've always felt this break-up was just so wrong. W agrees, and we're both working to make it better this time around.

Fingers crossed for you all, too.

Rough day with W yesterday. She was being inconsistent in some of her statements - absolute statements changed to relative statements: "I never did X became, well I haven't done X in a while." "I never want to see ow or be friends with her" changed to "well, I am not interested in running into ow now and I don't think we can be friends right now."

So I realize I need to pull back a little and make sure she's willing to fight for me and work hard to earn my trust again. That sentence says it all.

Sorry to hear that NYGal. Sounds like pulling further back is a good idea.

What did you decide about your living arrangements?

Regarding living arrangements... I'm supposed to be out of my room by June 15 or so... I don't really have any where to go right now, but I'm sort of enjoying the unknown. I have some options, but nothing is firmed up yet. It also depends on when my housemate finds someone to move in. So anything is possible. I'm also still looking for a townhouse or condo to purchase. No luck there yet.

W and I continue to move forward. I can't say the road is without bumps, but we are getting through the rough spots and will probably come out stronger as a result.

I still feel like ow isn't letting go completely. She called W at least once last week to report that she saw me on campus. She's so immature. In her position at the university, employee confidentiality ranks right up there, and she had to tell W I was going to see a University therapist. I actually wasn't, but that didn't stop her from telling W!! She should (and could) be fired for all the ways she has let slip confidential information about employees.

She apparently makes a habit of breaking people up... I'm not making this stuff up. There are at least two other couples she's messed with, i.e. sided with one of them and helped convince them to leave the partner. She's not particularly attractive or personable, but she must have something compelling that I just don't see. I don't waste too much time thinking about her, and I really don't care what happens to her, as long as she stays the he!! away from us. I could forgive her at some point, but I'd prefer to just have her fade away from my/our life. She's not a nice person, to put it mildly!

NYGal, are you thinking about reporting her? That sounds pretty outrageous! You could also contact her and tell her that you *will* report her if she doesn't back off.

I think you buying a place of your own is a good move regardless. You can always rent it out if you move back in with W at some point and still have your independence. A rental is like a savings account and a great thing to have.

I don't know what H saw in OW, either. She's 60 and acts like 16. She also drinks.

In fact, ow is only 55 and acts like 13. And drinks. Quite a hot mess!

I am not going to report ow because that could lead to more trouble for me, frankly. But if I ever find the need to, it's good to have this information in my back pocket. If I said the "or else" to her, she'd go straight to W and paint me as the crazy person. Even though she has revealed very confidential information about personnel, I can't risk being the one to make it known to the higher ups. Not now at least. She's already one of the higher ups, so it would mean going straight to the top. I'm not ready for that. But, oh the protection this offers me!

Wow. She does sound like a mess. On the other hand, her behavior certainly makes you look like a much more stable and classy choice!

Glad to see that things are still progressing, though the non-comittment to NC with the OW is a bit troubling. Definitely stay on the slow track.

Hi Sweetie,

I finally read your threads and it has been a real roller coaster of emotions. I also feel that you are handling it well.

You are being able to recognize when to open up a little more and when to back up some. It's not easy to do that since our emotions are so fragile, so congrats on that.

Regarding OW, well what can I say. It is very unfortunate that some people have no values inside themselves and many times don't even know what they want or what makes them happy.

I actually have a good friend that is like this. I like her and she is a fantastic woman, but then I hate the fact that she is very selfish in regard to love. She does not bother to think about other people's feelings, how much she may hurt someone, etc. It is about looking for happiness.

The worse is that she is always hollow, empty. I see it and even talk to her about it. But it is like to the wall. She just don't get it. She has a complete disregard for people that have families or someone else in their lives. It is pathetic and sad.

Keep up the hard work NYGal, have patience, patience and more patience. You got this!!!

Love,
Pink

NYGal, how are you? Haven't heard from you in quite some time...

Hi Painter, thanks for checking in. I'm re-reading DR and getting more out of it the second time through. MWD's advice is good, and I think sometimes we forget and just focus on the LRT or NC and really there's much more kindness in the book and in her ideas.
W and I are reconciling and it is going really well. Some bumps in the road, but my attempts to be the lighthouse and keep the road clear while also living my life have paid off. And she is being very attentive, remorseful, introspective a bit, and pretty consistent. So we're both doing something right and I'm grateful.
Ow is fading fast. I don't think they are in contact with each other, and W is actually feeling better and better about herself and her choice to come back to me. We are talking about me moving home but I'm not pushing that (too much). I am moving some of my things back. I'm happy.

Oh Painter, I just saw that H's ow moved in. I'm so sorry.

So glad things are moving in the right direction for you! Keep checking in with us, we need some happy stories for all the newcomers.

Yes, it's been sort of crazy for me.

Glad to hear that things are looking good!

My advice: read Divorce Remedy over and over. Be patient and kind and forgiving when it's appropriate. Don't be a doormat. GAL and be kind. Don't give up unless YOU want to, and don't do it too soon.

Hey NYGal,

It looks like things are on the up and UP for you guys! I am so pleased to read of your sitch's progress.

In my view, I think it is now safe for you to try and get W to look at the 5LL book together. That would be a good way to connect emotionally as you two discuss your preferences and learn more about each other.

The one other book recommendation is The Relationship Cure one by Gottman. I am reading it now, after dusting it off after being laid dormant for sooo long, because it helps me to look back on my issues and patterns to learn more about my own weak areas in order to be more self-aware of them as they crop up.

How are you doing, my friend? I am so relieved that you now recognize the importance of taking things slowly and making W work for you. You are WORTHY of the effort.

((((NYGal)))

Originally Posted By: NYGal

What other people thinks is very important to her

Is what you think important to her?

Thanks ((((Wonka)))) How nice to hear from you! Good suggestion on the 5LL and other one. I think I have both, but haven't yet read.

I hope you are doing well and that your social life is hopping!You helped me so much through this ordeal. I don't even know how I survived, and I made so many mistakes. But you always helped me get back on track.I can't thank you enough.
Fingers remain crossed!

Great news NYGal. My mistake in '08 was to not do the work and throw the baggage in the closet and forget about it. After the "honeymoon phase" I would recommend addressing any issues and putting them to rest. If I did that in '08, I might not be here today. Best of luck

Today I'm moving the last of my things back home with W. It's been a rough 7 months. If anyone had told me at the beginning it would take this long or be this hard I wouldn't have known how to handle it. But I did. Everyone here helped a lot. My DB coach helped a lot. Divorce Remedy helped a lot and I have to say again, please everyone, reread it. MWD's message sometimes gets lost on this forum. She's the real deal and I recommend you look to her advice.

The move home is temporary and has to do with my living situation changing. I'm living there only partially, and will move into my own condo in a few weeks while we continue to work on us. Like mutation says, it's a process and we have to keep working on it.

Ultimately? I'm lucky. My W never got over me and picked someone completely inappropriate to have an A with. Lucky me!

Still being cautious, still making mistakes, and still trying to do better.

This sounds very good! I am so glad that you're getting your own place.

It's hard to put the pieces back. I saw something about how old Japanese porcelain that was broken was put together with laquer resin with gold or silver powder in it, to create something even more beautiful out of it. It's called Kintsugi, if you want to look it up.

I wish you the very best!

It sounds like you have made some significant progress, NYGal, and I am happy for you. Remember, you are the prize and you are in control of how things go forward. Definitely keep taking things slowly. Your W is a lucky woman and I hope she remembers that every day.

Keep us posted. It's very nice to see good news hereabouts.

(((NYGal)))

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Today I'm moving the last of my things back home with W. It's been a rough 7 months. If anyone had told me at the beginning it would take this long or be this hard I wouldn't have known how to handle it. But I did. Everyone here helped a lot. My DB coach helped a lot. Divorce Remedy helped a lot and I have to say again, please everyone, reread it. MWD's message sometimes gets lost on this forum. She's the real deal and I recommend you look to her advice...

NYGal,

This post is awesome!

Thank you so much for your heartfelt endorsement of MWD's message in Divorce Remedy and your DB Coach.

I'm thrilled that things are moving in a more positive direction for you. You are so smart to recognize that the hard work isn't over. Stay the DB course and please keep us posted!

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

You are such an inspiration for us. Please keep us posted xx

Really pleased for both of you

V

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Divorce Remedy helped a lot and I have to say again, please everyone, reread it. MWD's message sometimes gets lost on this forum. She's the real deal and I recommend you look to her advice.

NYGal - I agree... sometimes I feel like the forum pushes for a harder line vs. DR. I'm curious what do you think worked for you and what didn't? Where did you side with the book vs. the forum?

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Today I'm moving the last of my things back home with W. It's been a rough 7 months. If anyone had told me at the beginning it would take this long or be this hard I wouldn't have known how to handle it. But I did. Everyone here helped a lot. My DB coach helped a lot. Divorce Remedy helped a lot and I have to say again, please everyone, reread it. MWD's message sometimes gets lost on this forum. She's the real deal and I recommend you look to her advice.

The move home is temporary and has to do with my living situation changing. I'm living there only partially, and will move into my own condo in a few weeks while we continue to work on us. Like mutation says, it's a process and we have to keep working on it.

Ultimately? I'm lucky. My W never got over me and picked someone completely inappropriate to have an A with. Lucky me!

Still being cautious, still making mistakes, and still trying to do better.

I haven't been around in a while. I'm very happy for you. Some advice. Treat life like an adventure. Avoid ruts like the plague. Force yourself, and W, outside your comfort zones. Don't be predictable. Let her spend the rest of your lives discovering new things about you.

Don't exercise the relationship the way too many people exercise at the gym. They do the same routine over and over... It becomes dull and boring and a lot of times they quit working out. Relationships are the same. Don't allow yours to ever become dull and boring. Mix things up. Challenge each other. Don't dream about things you'd like to do but haven't. List those things out and to them....together. Maybe skydiving, maybe salsa dancing, maybe hiking through mountains, riding bikes through the park, whatever. Mix it up and watch the relationship grow and prosper. Nothing in life can remain stagnant. Everything either grows or dies. Relationships live under that same rule. They grow or they die. Yours was lucky enough to be resurrected for another chance. Don't squander it. Good luck.

Hi everyone, thanks for your encouragement. Tx, you've always provided good advice, and I fully intend to take your latest to heart. You're right. It's important to start living the dream. W and I talk about it... but life is already/still so busy that we do put some of it off. But we'll get there.

PacLove, I think first of all I was just plain lucky. W always regretted her choice to leave me, and said it never felt right. She had to take way too much time to find her way back, though! The thing that benefited me most from the forum was the encouragement I got from people. Encouragement that told me not to give up, but to move forward (not on -- there's a difference) with my life. People reminded me to be the kind of person she'd be a fool to leave. So I took the time I had alone to read, ponder, grow, make new friends (I joined a divorce group that probably saved my life), exercise, and get Botox (LOL). I had many awful, awful, awful days and especially nights. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But I kept sticky notes on my headboard that said: "We are NOT done", "we will be together", and "I will get to go home." It helped me stay positive.

I didn't follow forum advice very well in doing NC. I would sometimes initiate phone calls or texts. But luckily W often did that. I would respond sooner than the forum advice might suggest. And most importantly, I think, I was kind and loving. Advice on here often sounded harsh to me -- trying to convince me that W was just having the time of her life and I should be cold and distant or at least unavailable. In my situation, I knew she was lost and unhappy, so I wanted to be the lighthouse (check out that story -- it's on here somewhere)and show her the way back home. MWD talks about kindness in her book and I think sometimes it's lost on the forum.

Different things work for different people. You know your situation best, so trust your instincts. But pay attention to what people here say, because sometimes DB means going against our instincts. Read and re-read the book; there's plenty of wisdom in there. And get a DB coach if you can afford one. And another thing? Don't listen to the negative people. It might be your family or your best friend who says -- move on, you deserve happiness, your WAS is a jerk. What they don't realize is that sometimes fighting for your M or your relationship just a little while longer is worth it. Be the lighthouse.

So I didn't end up buying the condo after all -- and I'm completely moved back home as of June 7th. I'm still looking for a place, but as an investment property, not to live there. I NEVER want to end up kicked out of my home again with nowhere to go. Maybe at some time W will agree to put my name on the house. Maybe not. Maybe at some point we'll actually get married -- we never did and I really want to have that security and level of commitment. It's one day at a time. Ups and downs. The hurt of her betrayal is still there, but she's doing her best to help me feel better. I'm lucky. And I worked the DB principles as best I could! Still am, in fact. Not perfectly. Far from it. But we all do the best we can.

Hi NYGal! Wow! I have been absent from the forum for a while and missed all this good news you have! Huge congratulations to you, I'm so happy for you! You seem to be handling the situation brilliantly.

I too am re-reading DR for some hints on how to handle things when your WAS does a u-turn. My H announced at the weekend that he wants to try to work things out. I was totally floored and have no clue what to do, how to handle it or even how I truly feel! I will be keeping a close eye on your thread for tips!

NYGal,

Thanks for the reply - yes I'm very familiar with the lighthouse story and have it on my phone to remind me to read it regularly. I too am practicing kindness but with some boundaries. I'm even doing the odd "act of kindness" for W, but only when she asks - nothing unprompted for now as they generally go unrecognized or can be seen as pursuing.

I've been pretty good at limiting contact unless needed for finances/kids. She often reaches out to me at least once a day with something, either an update or a question - often times things she could have found herself.

I have my healthy boundaries, ie she sleeps in the guest bedroom when staying at the house, I need to be a little stronger on finances which is a discussion we'll have when she gets back, and she knows not to come by the house on the nights/weekends that aren't hers.

Congrats on the reconciliation - it's so great to hear stories where the S is returning to make things work, certainly gives me hope. I hope everything works out for both of you and you can have a happy life together! how long have you been together?

Congrats NYGal,

You give me some hope...I am also in a same sex marriage with a WW wife...I wish I would have found this site sooner because I have been in limbo since Feb....wife keeps going back and forth on what she wants...moved her clothes out in May but we still have kept in contact...I haven't done a good job of DBing but finally said that I can't be her friend if she is continuing to have a EA/PA with this other person...its tough...glad you hung in there!!!

Pac, we've been together (with the 6 month or so hiatus) for almost 10 years.

Hawker, I sincerely hope things work out. I was lucky in that W chose to have an A with a straight W, and that didn't work out so good for either of them!

I'm familiar with the back and forth. Oh god, I'm sooooo familiar with it. It drove me crazy, but I do think it meant she wasn't done, and that gave me hope. Like PacLove says above, my W also would get in touch often about trivial things that she could easily have figured out for herself. The best was when she asked if she needed to shut off the water to the house because the temp was going below freezing and she wondered if the pipes would freeze! I'm 100% convinced it was temp checking (haha, no pun intended) -- to make sure I was still available should she change her mind. Eventually she did, and in my case I don't think there was much I could have done to speed up that process. I just tried my best to GAL and not mess up in my interactions with her too much. We all mess up. But the thing I kept trying to remember was that I wanted to be the person she'd be a fool to leave.

NY Gal,

Haha your temp check made me laugh...Yes, the back and forth [censored]..I finally said I need to let you go because its not fair to me. So we will see what happens...I wish the other W was straight but she is not

...I forgot how long you went through your separation?? She temp checks me quite often...I am doing my best to GAL as well!!

Originally Posted By: hawker

NY Gal,

I forgot how long you went through your separation??

I got the ILYBINILWY on November 4th of last year. On November 3 I would have said, oh, we're fine -- a little distant, but no, she would never leave me! It went from EA to PA at some point between there and New Years Eve when they were together in a hotel -- how can I ever forget that? Grrrrr....

I was told on January 1st that I had to move out in two weeks. And so I did. Then in April she asked if we could talk -- specifically about our R. And that was the beginning of our reconciliation.

During that time of our separation we communicated on occasion. Maybe the longest dry spell was 10 days or something, maybe longer. It was hell.

Hawker, I tried the "I have to let you go" thing, hoping that W would say No, NO, I love you best. Ha. Didn't happen. I had a serious anxiety attack and wailed like a madwoman after that. It was bad. But then we were back in touch within a week.

Hahahah NYGal you sound like me...I thought the letting you go would shake her out of her fog...not so much...Ya it took 2 days after for us to get back in touch...lol....

Seems like we have a lot in common. I hope you two find your way back together. I hope she realizes what a mistake this would be and how it impacts her legacy as someone who, I'm sure, is well respected.

Thank you NYGal....I hope so as well!!

Hey NYGAl!

What a wonderful update!!! Keep up the good work. In addition to TxHubby's suggestion, I would want to up the sexy factor too. Nothing like reeving your W's engine in dressing up in sexy clothes and flirting like a carefree woman. Rwwwar!!

((((NYGal))) You've come a long way baby...from those dark days to bright days. Must feel really good these days. Don't get complacent ever. Keep on keepin' on those communication and relationship skills.

Wonka! Thanks for stopping by to say hi! Wish I had read your post before I just downed a whole bag of Twizzlers. Things are pretty good. I do need to stay on my toes, though!
If you come back here, let me know your you are doing.
XO

NYGal,

I have a question for you. When you and your W were separated did she ever used to say anything about the future that did NOT give you hope? I know you are not supposed to believe anything they say but my DB coach disagreed with that when I had my first session yesterday.
One thing my wife said the other day was "you need to move out of that area" (there were some robberies) I'm probably reading to much into it but it made me think you want me to move? So your not coming back? LOL Probably a mute point but wanted your take....thank you!

hawker - while my W hasn't returned, she has said anything and everything from - D will be fine with us divorcing to even talking about all of us moving to a different state more recently... It was a clear sign that half the time she forgets we are separated or that she's really confused about the sich not sure what she wants. She wants whats best for me - but half the time I don't know if that's being selfish on her part (wants me to improve for her) vs. wanting me to improve so she feels less guilty about leaving me and hopes I can move on... really it's mind reading and I've found it best not to read too much into what they say right now as none of us are mind readers.

Sure, hawker, she said things that did not give me hope. But "you need to move out of that area" means your W is concerned for your safety. She's saying she cares, not that she's not coming back.

And the "don't believe anything they say" is misinterpreted. They aren't lying every time they open their mouths. It just means, if they say "I never loved you" or some such nonsense, don't believe it. It means take everything they say with a grain of salt, because it could change tomorrow or next week.

Thanks NYGal!!

That helps...she has never said I never loved you or anything like that....I have to quit trying to read into her meanings when she says stuff...haha!

Thanks PacLove...I am going to stop reading in to what she says..you are correct we are not mind readers!!

Hawker, and does she sometimes say she still loves you but doesn't want to give you false hope?

Hi NYGal,

Well she says she loves me and cares about me but doesn't want know what she wants and doesn't want to lead me on....

I swear, you are in exactly the same situation I was in. It's like that Seinfeld episode where they all find people exactly like them living parallel lives. (I never watched Seinfeld, just heard about it.)
I wish we could talk.

Hahaha, yes I love Seinfeld I know which episode you mean!!

I wish we could talk to!!!! You have been so helpful to me!

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