Link to old thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...887#Post2669887I feel like I have been defeated by my W.
The damage both financially and emotionally is huge for a family of 7. I need to focus on work and minimize the financial loss for this family and let her take the boys and raise them.
Somehow I need to give her space even if we are headed for D.
Maybe if she sees that the boys will miss their dad she may reconsider things. I most likely don't think she will but I cannot think about the future. I can only react to what she does and hope that I can forgive and release my resentment so I can build a better relationship.
I feel alone without her. I can only imagine how alone she felt while I was working all those hours and she was taking care of the boys.
from your previous thread...
I get when they are older if they want to come live with me that is fine, but now that they are young they should be raised by mom.
Why should they be raised by mom because they are young? They are boys that NEED their father!! Don't you want to be a good male role model for them??
Even if I ended up with custody of them I would end up living in a 2 bedroom place with my boys. I cannot afford to put them in that situation.
You think she is going to be able to find something better? Besides, it's not about the size of your house. It's about taking care of your family.
I cannot in good conscious put a 2 year old in a car to take a 9 hour round trip every other weekend so I will just have to go see my boys or have her drop them off in Michigan once a month and take them on occasional long weekends and holidays.
It is too risky to spend 40 to 50K for this D. It will wipe us out.
You're OK with seeing your boys only once a month??
You don't have to spend so much money on lawyers, you can represent yourself. At the same time, how can you put a price on your children? I don't think you should back down, but only you can decide what's best for you and your family. She can only take them to Toronto with your permission. Otherwise, it's kidnapping. You don't have to let her control what happens with your family.
Maybe if she sees that the boys will miss their dad she may reconsider things.
She's not going to see that. She's going to do whatever she wants because you're letting her be in charge.
It seems to me that you weren't defeated ...you gave it away willingly. Your boys need you to fight for them. My family was a family of 6 in a one bedroom apartment growing up and guess what ? we survived it. Your wife left...she moved...she abandoned her boys...You have a say. If you are giving up then call it that..
Jim,
Take decisive action and don't wallow between giving up and filing for divorce. One day you are trying to gain custody of them, next you're giving them away for potential "visits" with you, all because of money.
So today W and I get email about S6 and how good his behavior was in class today. W has been back since Monday and we are doing nesting plan.
Still NC with her.
Jim I gotta agree with everyone else on this. You won't mind some other guy raising your kids? You won't mind that when your kids get older they are not going to look at you as a father but the guy who gave up on them?
My kids are not even really my kids, biologically... however they are MINE and I will always be there for them. I can not tell you how hard I would fight for them. In fact fight would not be the accurate word, I would go to war for them. He11 I am even a lawyer and rather than doing it myself I retained another lawyer. Before you say well you have the money cause your a lawyer should know a vast majority of my check goes to student loans. Luckily things with my WW are smoothing out, but look at my thread and you will see how prepared I was.
Point is they are your boys and need you, you should be willing to move heaven and earth for them.
dream,
The nesting plan is the boys stay in the marital home and W and I alternate overnights until D is final.
I get Monday and Tuesday, she gets Wednesday and Thursday, and we alternate the Friday and weekends.
headed for D - No reconciliation [Re: tfish08]
The problem is I will not have any financial support from family. We will be spending thousands of dollars on Ls. I will not be able to afford a big enough house to keep the boys. For some reason, I think her mother will give her money to get a townhouse for them to live in Toronto. I cannot spend all that money, she will not budge on physical custody. She wants it. It will be difficult for me to raise 5 boys so young. I get when they are older if they want to come live with me that is fine, but now that they are young they should be raised by mom. I get both points of view just need to decide which route to take. It's not that I don't love the boys, I love them with all my heart. I am sure they will understand at some point in time when they are older why I let them go. I don't want to take the gift I promised to support her with just to be spiteful even though I agree with most that she should work.
From you last thread above - I'm seeing a lot of assumptions here and some of them don't seem logical.
If you are the breadwinner, why can't you stay in your home?
Why do you think your L bills would be so insanely high?
Jim,
It saddens me to return after a while to see you rolling over and giving up on your children. You have shown a pattern of being all doom and gloom with priorities I cannot understand, such as money over your children.
What is really getting in the way of your own personal growth?
Painter,
When W said she wanted to reconcile she kept doing things to show that she did and then said that she only wanted to co-parent. By the time I realized that we had signed a purchase agreement on the house.
As far as cost for L's, my L stated that conservatively the cost for this D could be as high as 50K. My L is the mother of a friend of mine from college.
Also I know my MIL is the enabler to WW. FIL wants WW out of his house and does not want to raise my boys. He has made that clear well over a year ago to both W and I. MIL and WW do not listen to FIL and keep secrets from him all the time.
Jim
Sweetheart, you are the more stable parent for your boys.
Your WW sought to get you as a resource for her. Whatever MIL did or said is largely a side issue with regard to your boys.
I continue to pray for you.
V
Jim, I'm still confused - which house? Houses can be sold. Children are irreplaceable.
You need to talk to other lawyers. I don't care if this is someone you know, that is the absolute max for a high-conflict divorce. H was in court with his ex numerous times over a period of 10 years and it never even approached that kind of costs. How many Ls did you interview?
Jim I have no idea where you live but 50K is ridiculous unless you are so incredibly wealthy you would have that kinda money in your back pocket. I am a lawyer and the most I ever charged for a divorce is 7,000.00. Counting a very contentious custody another 7,000.00. With expert psychs add another 5 to 6. Ok I am not the absolute best in my area, but I worked for her at the start of my career, she got all the high profile cases with docs and politicians, actually one was on Dateline NBC. She made 35,000 in that case. 50K is just not realistic unless you are somewhere they charge 1200.00/hour.
It's the Psyc Evals, I know in my country each cost $20k. 2 parents and 5 boys, that will run a real tab!
There's gotta be a way to get a court order for her to not skip town with the boys until D is final. Once u have that in place than try to go to mediation in liu of having a custody battle with Psyc Evals and all.
Gr8dad, I don't know which country you are in, but in the US, you're not looking at that kind of cost. The cost also depends on whether it is court-ordered or initiated by one of the parties.
So had a DB coaching session this morning.
I told DB coach that I was conflicted on the R that I will have with STBXW and the issue of custody and where the boys will live.
He asked if I would be accepting of only being a dad for 60 overnights a year and of W possibly having another OM to help her raise the boys. Of course my answer was no.
I stated that since we are heading for D, W needs to understand reality and that she needs to work. He said that if I made statements like this to W that I am contributing to a negative R with her.
He reminded me that I agreed with W that I would work and she would be the SAHM. He also highlighted that prior to adopting the S6 and S2 that I made the statement that 80 to 90% of the workload falls on her which she has taken responsibility for and handled.
His assessment is that now I am creating a negative relationship by wanting to have custody of the boys and going back on my word of moving to Toronto and having her be the SAHM.
He also stated that she will not see that I am actually remorseful about me filing for D first if I don't take responsibility for my knee jerk reaction (which I admit it was). (ie; accepting my mistake and the consequence of her moving and raising the boys).
He also stated that I would look heroic to my boys if I accepted my mistake and accepted the consequence. I would be the kind and giving person that my W initially fell in love with and help build a better co-parenting relationship.
W did do a lot of things with respect to raising the boys and did a good job, but I also did what was asked when I was not working. Guess my past actions mean nothing when they were positive.
So found out tonight that STBXW has been emailing teachers and not copying me on the correspondence.
Also found that she went on a trip with OM while we were in the process of reconciling. She had S2 and had her mom watch him.
I do not know if there is any advantage to having this info for court or psych evaluation.
I will accept the fact that she will eventually meet someone else and remarry but I am not going to put up with her having physical custody of the boys and show that she can play mom when she wants.
I know it won't do any good to expose this to her that I know.
It stings my heart a bit but now I am even more upset and will fight for my kids. Morally this is just wrong what she is doing, but I guess some of my mistakes drove her to this.
I was such a fool, should have kept with the D when I filed.
Jim I do not know how it is where you live but around here we routinely put in Custody Orders a right of first refusal. That means if for a certain time period typically 3 hours here, if the custodial parent is away the other parent has the right to retake custody. If the custodial parent does not inform them that they will be gone greater than three hours then you can file a contempt petition. It may be worth talking to your attorney about it.
Does the OM know that your WW has 5 sons? I was just thinking in my head how daunting that task is. I have one S11 and he was a handful at those ages, never mind 5!
TimR,
I will have to ask, I am not sure but thank you for the information.
CWOL,
Not sure if OM2 knows about 5 sons. I don't think W will care if her OMs know. I am sure she uses it to her advantage and tells some kind of story. Her OM2 is a CPA, for sure makes more money than me and will be able to take her places that I cannot afford.
Jim,
I wasn't thinking about the money to raise 5 sons, but rather the emotional and physical work involved. Do these OM's realize what they are in for potentially? Plus a messy divorce?
CWOL,
Not sure if OMs realize it. She says she has told them. The likely chance that she will get remarried is slim based on having 5 boys. She has no problem giving them back when they are older if they want to live with me if some of them choose to live with dad is what she says.
I understand both points of view, hers and mine, she says I can have them all the long weekends and all holidays and have them more than 60 days a year. In her head she wants them, especially now when they are young.
I tried to negotiate this morning with her for 50/50 and she continues to say that the only way that will happen is if I move. So W and I will always disagree.
We will have to do parallel parenting because we do parent differently. Every time I discipline and she asks to speak with one of the boys she does not back up my disciplinary action and changes direction. She is trying to build a case against me saying the boys regression in school was because I filed for divorce and that she did not leave them, she left me. Continues to state that she cannot live in the same house as me, yet she is ok with spending money on hotels and now blaming me for the D.
I guess I understand DB coaches comments that I have been doing everything wrong in order to build a positive relationship. My question is, has anyone given up physical custody of their children? Did this make a positive impact on the R with the XW or XH? Has this person continued to DB and had success in finding a new R or remarrying?
If there is even a sitch close to mine I would sure love to read it because I am so torn. Heart says keep boys (DB through tough love which I have been trying to do), mind says take advice of DB coach and own up to my mistake of filing first (W has made statements similar to DB coach). I am sure if I did the latter it would take her years to get over all the wrong things she thinks I did to even reconsider an MR.
CWOL
Do you think that exposing this to OM2 and letting him know she is still M and has 5 boys will do anything?
I know where he works also, not sure if OM2 is married.
W states that OM2 knows. Really? Are there that many guys out there that would go out with a woman that is going through a D?
Do you think that exposing this to OM2 and letting him know she is still M and has 5 boys will do anything?
I know where he works also, not sure if OM2 is married.
Jim,
Maybe. I know DB discourages it, but given that you are at a dead end with your WW you might want to try it, perhaps indirectly? Or find out if there's a Mrs. OM2? That's how I ended up exposing my WW's EA, I could not get her to R with me and she was in denial that it was ever an EA.
I don't think most rational men would go out with a mom with five boys at those ages, even if they are super wealthy. Talk about coming with baggage!
It does sound crazy to me that your WW would openly tell you that she is dating, at the same time trying to wrest custody from your hands. She must know that you will put up a fight with that!
I would not even know where to start to expose it. His FB page has a pic of him and his D. He is definitely a high ranking partner at his firm and the complete opposite of what W would pick. His favorite singer is Bruce Springstein and my W does not even like "The Boss"! Guess this is what happens when they are WW.
Do you think that exposing this to OM2 and letting him know she is still M and has 5 boys will do anything?
I know where he works also, not sure if OM2 is married.
W states that OM2 knows. Really? Are there that many guys out there that would go out with a woman that is going through a D?
I don't think OM2 cares if your wife is married and has 5 kids. He's likely enjoying her attention and sex, not thinking about the future or long term.
Who knows what exactly your W told him. Probably something to the effect of, "our marriage has been over for years, I finally filed divorce papers." and anything she can say that paints you to look like a bad husband -- always at work, busy with xyz, whatever.
At this point, you're on the path to divorce, I don't think exposing anything will change anything. Focus on yourself and not on her.
We are into week 2 of our 2-2-3 nesting plan with the boys.
W spews yesterday when I cam home from work and says that the dinner she made is only for the boys and not me. I just said OK.
We discussed some things about school work for the oldest 3 and then she left for hotel.
I looked up CCard charges and the bill for two nights was $320. She also signed herself and the boys at the gym for $144/month.
At the rate of the hotel spend for 12 nights a month plus gas back and forth to Toronto, she is spending as much as I would have spent on daycare.
I tried to address the issue with her to find a lower priced hotel but she is not budging. I also told her that we can find a one bedroom for less than $1K a month and sign a six month lease which will cost less, plus has a gym and a pool, but she spews back that if I am so concerned with finances then I should go stay at my parents while she stays with the boys in the marital home.
I just can't understand her anymore.
This whole scenario is so high conflict. I cannot control her actions and will have to get Ls involved just for the money management.
Boys told me she went out on a date when she had them this past weekend. Obviously OM. I really dislike her behavior.
At this rate I will not have any money left over from the D and she will bankrupt the family. She continues to blame things on me and I respond that I am really not interested in talking about the past and dismissed myself.
She is completely taking advantage of your money. I don't know how you can force her to stay in an affordable hotel. When I looked up nesting, the example they gave was an apartment that the parents rotated as well as the home where the kids lived.
You need to take control of the finances. Can you remove yourself from the credit card? There needs to be a plan where she pays for herself and you pay for yourself. Both parents need to agree prior to signing kids up for things... however, without a legal agreement in place, I'm not sure how this would all work.
Have you met with any lawyers yet? Many have a 1 hour free consult.
Removing yourself from a credit card doesn't always mean you are off the hook for the bill, depending on your state and the legal status of your M/S/D.
You can, however close the card down if you are the main account holder.
Have you set up appointments with any other lawyers? It sounds like you need some outside help and suggestions, I feel that you are not seeing all your options.
I am the primary on the card. I have contacted my L about this. L is addressing issue.
There was nothing else in the court documents other than us agreeing to find an apartment and have our nights in the marital home with the boys.
Good. Glad to see you've reached out to your lawyer on the card issue. What's the progress for finding an apartment?
It sounds like she wants you to go back to your parents so she can have full custody/use of marital home and use that against you.
Do you have a separate account to put money into that she can't touch?
dream,
Yes, I have some money in a separate account.
I don't know how to stop this entitlement feeling she has to be a SAHM.
I gave her an apartment that made the most sense and she disagreed with using it because it was a 6 month lease. She says this will be over in 2 months. Not sure how she expects that to happen.
If the court papers say get an apartment, she needs to comply.
I don't know how to stop this entitlement feeling she has to be a SAHM.
If she filed for D, and you're in a no-fault state, the judge will usually give her a "transitional" period where she is expected to seek gainful employment, assuming she has enough time to spend for the 50% or whatever custody she gets. The alimony (spousal support) should be calculated with that assumption so it cliffs and sunsets eventually in one or two years.
At least that's what was explained to me, in my situation.
I doubt that will happen with 5 children between the ages of 2 and 7...
I doubt that will happen with 5 children between the ages of 2 and 7...
Very true. I'm trying to figure out how Jim's gonna take care of 5 by himself when he has custody? It was a struggle for me to take care of 1 at those ages!
It sounds like a situation where you'd have a nanny or lots of extended family!
CWOL, Painter,
When I filed in December, I had the two little ones in daycare and the 3 others were in school age care. I plan on getting a nanny or an au pair.
I have no issue with her having 50/50 custody but she wants to move them to Toronto, Canada which leaves me with only 2 or 2.5 months of overnights with the boys unless I get a transfer up there for work.
Is a judge really going to side with a SAHM and say yes it is ok to move the boys 4.5 hours away from their father?
IDK where you live but around here the answer is no unless SAHM can show some greatly compelling reason.... School are a better. Nope, Closer to family.... Nope. Better job... Sorry but nope. Ex is a convicted Ax Murderer... Ok but you have to provide more than enough time he can see his kids.
Like I said I cannot say for your area but around here it is no.
Jim,
It's very unlikely for a judge to allow her to take your kids across borders. In most states they draw the line at the state borders, never mind national borders. Once you cross the border the court would not have jurisdiction over what happens in Canada, right?
It seems like you have a strong case if your WW insists on moving your kids internationally. What does your L say?
It's something a local divorce/custody attorney would be able to answer, but most judges want the children to remain stable. They favor the family home, no change of schools, etc. I think you have adopted children? If they were adopted after infancy, I would think you could make an even better argument for their need for stability.
But make sure you are on top of issues like residency! Dragging your feet can leave the door open for W to establish residency somewhere else, enroll the children in school, etc. You have to take initiative, also to show the judge that you are a pro-active parent who doesn't run behind W and need her to manage things.
CWOL,
My L says the same thing. W has had 2 different L's and I am not sure why they have not told her that she will have to co-parent in Michigan. The only way she would be able to move them is through the court decision or unless I consent on the move.
So I did some research and I found that since she is a SAHM that will likely play in her favor since we have an S2 and and S4.
We have put S4 in daycare before because she has difficulty handling him and she thought it would be good for him to socialize with other kids all day since all he wanted to do at home was watch TV.
We have actually put all the boys in daycare when it suits her. Now that I did it she has a real problem with it.
I feel my strategy now should be to wait and see what the results of the psych evaluation are. Based on that outcome, then I will see what I can do to resolve the D through mediation and avoid trial.
Jim, I may have missed this, but is it a regular parental evaluation you have coming up, or a psych evaluation due to specific issues? Is it court-ordered or something you asked for?
Painter,
It is an evaluation by a psychologist. L's are having meeting on Thursday with the psychologist. Friend of the court suggested this and we both agreed.
When I first filed for D, the friend of the court could not believe that W stayed away from boys for 2 months, even though court motion stated she was allowed in the home. W kept blaming me for not leaving the home so she could spend time with them and accepted an temporary parenting plan of 60 overnights with the boys because I had everything on lockdown.
At the end of January W said she wanted to reconcile and so she made a feable attempt at coming back to the home. She stated nothing changed and blamed everything on me, I did not dismiss D fast enough, I did not change my ways at home. She would not give specifics as to what needed to change. The only time she has given me specifics was early in January when she asked me to stop smoking, get my transfer and not get angry. I did all those 180s and all I asked was for her to quit dating. When she gave no answer I had no choice but to stop my transfer and 4 days later she filed for D.
Last night I had my boys and S4 and S2 wanted me to sing lullabyes and read books so I did. S4 says he wants to live with me. I hugged him and told him he will be living with both sometimes and that everything will be ok.
Meanwhile she puts boys to be on her time and goes out with OM when she has boys in Toronto.
Just does not seem right in my heart.
Jim,
Fight the good fight if you feel it's not right. Your case seems very strong, make sure you have an L that won't just roll over for the sake of "amicable divorce." You have a lot more cards than I do, because of your state's laws.
CWOL
I wish I knew what the good fight was. She wanted a seperation and I filed because of my emotions. That then set her off. So yes we both are to blame but she will not budge on her position since I started the quick downward spiral. Does not excuse her waywardness but I guess she was looking for this out for a long time and is ok with finding someone else.
I have a hard time letting go of what the DB coach recommended. I could not go through with it and take any more pain in my heart.
She is a woman of action and gets things done. I commend her for that but I do not condone that she never cares what the consequences are to others.
Don't beat yourself up. My WW wanted time and space.. Which meant time to develope another R. But then started messing with parenting time and didn't want to adhere to the agreed 50/50, so I filed. But our Ss WWness is not our demon to fight. My W has had at least 2 EAs and a very probable PA. I don't beat myself up over filing.
Thank you Ralph88,
I just need to stop thinking about the past. This D is going to drag on.
Got served papers this evening from the home buyers that W and I signed the purchase agreement. STBXW gave the buyers the address to my parents house. Now will have to spend more money on L. Good thing he is a buddy from college.
So this past Monday I was in an auto accident. Guy came from the right center lane and hit the passenger side of my car. He did not stop, luckily I got his plates and filed a police report.
Went to collision shop today to get the car checked out and getting a rental on Friday so STBXW can drive back to Toronto so I can have the minivan. STBXW was spewing earlier this week that if I don't get her a rental she will get one herself. I responded that the rental is covered under insurance and not to worry, but she started spewing again because I don't take action fast enough for her. When I told her I would have a rental on Friday she sent me the following text.
W "I am sorry you were in an accident and I am glad you weren't hurt. I know you don't believe that but it's true."
Me "Thank you. I appreciate it."
She says this two days after the incident occurs. I know the only reason she said it is because I actually took action to make her life better so she is not driving a damaged car back to Toronto while she goes out with OM2. Gosh I feel like a doormat even doing that for her.
I reflect back on things over the last year or two and I don't recall a thing that she did for me just to do as a nice gesture for her H.
Hi everyone
What were some of the books to read?
I have seen so many suggestions and the only one I can remember is No More Mr. Nice Guy.
So I got served yesterday evening from the buyers of the house and they want all their expenses paid for. Now have to fight this along with D from W.
I was too nice with W and now life is spiraling out of control with Ls.
Yep, when it rains, it pours. :-(
Hopefully your L friend can settle the suit quickly. Is there any way to let the other party know what's happening? It may get you some sympathy and get it over quickly.
As far as self help books go, I like Unleash the warrior within. Helped me quite a bit 10 years ago, I think I will re-read it.
The other party has been colluding with my STBXW about this. W wants the money from the home and does not care about me. Its her tactic to put pressure on me to speed up the D.
So as I signed the retainer today for my buddy to represent me for the house lawsuit, I also spoke to my L and signed the paperwork for the psych eval. My L had a phone conversation with psych doctor today and doctor stated that it was important that the boys stay in the stable matrimonial home that they know so that is a plus. Of course the cost of the eval is the highest dollar figure possible and is going to take 4 to 6 weeks to complete.
I pray that the Lord will protect me and my boys and direct me to ensure that I am taking the correct actions.
I see from other posts that people suggest to take the high road.
I wish I knew how to handle this in my sitch.
I either continue to fight tooth and nail and get W to co-parent in Michigan or I move to Toronto and co-parent there.
Entightlement is all I can continue to think of with STBXW.
I can no longer tolerate bad behavior and that is why I continue to fight. When I have my S2 and S4 wanting me to cuddle with them before bed and I find out that W chooses to go GALing with OM even before the boys are asleep at her parent's house and tells them she is going out with a friend makes me angry that the boys have that type of role model for a mom!
I think you are taking the high road. You're doing what's best for you and your boys. Personally, I think you should continue to fight for your boys to stay in Michigan with you. From what I can tell, you're a great dad!
I'm a bit confused though... I missed something. You have buyers for your house? Is this the house you're currently living in?
Thank you dream,
Yes, I was too nice and trusted WW when she said she wanted to reconcile. All she was doing was lying to me and just wanted me to move and co-parent in Toronto. So I was going through with my transfer with work and signed a purchase agreement to sell the house in Michigan. I just made the correlation today that they date we signed the purchase agreement, she left with OM for a weekend trip to Florida. I need to have more respect for myself and grow some huge balls!
So STBXW sends me a text and calls, let it go straight to voicemail. FIL has MRI at 645 am Saturday and she wants me to come home early so that she doesn't have to drive late to get back to Toronto?
How do I handle this? I have to go get a rental car tomorrow because she refuses to drive the damaged car back to Toronto and now she wants me to leave work earlier so she can get home at a decent time and then what, go get comfort from OM later that day possibly?
What do I do? How do I respond?
The nice guy that I am would do it for his W, but not sure I would for a friend unless that friend had kids and treated me with respect. Yes, it would get me more time with my boys, but at this point I don't feel like I owe her anything.
Please help!
Put your kids first and you will always find the right answer. Take W out of the equation. What is best for your kids? How do you show the court that you are the best parent?
I'm so sorry she manipulated you this way. It sounds very cunning, and very similar to a lot of stuff that H's exW did to him. It's almost impossible to fight because it's so devious and unexpected for someone who doesn't think that way.
Jim,
Let you WW figure it out for herself. Sorry, she wants to D? She needs to experience what D is really like.
You are taking the high road.
Yes, "entitlement" is an understatement. I have to work full time and support my WW while she works 15 hours a week. Then hand her half my paycheck (actually she's going to get the state to garnish it). And she's the one that cheated!?!
So I plan on texting STBXW later this morning to tell her that my schedule will not allow me to come home earlier.
CWOL, I understand your statement about letting her figure out what it is like to D. The problem is she already knows because I was working so many hours last year that she already felt like she did not have an H. So now I will be doing the same thing and she will feel like I put my job over her. A 180 would be to come home early so she can leave, it will get me more time with the boys which is great, but when my mother was in the hospital because she had a stroke, my STBXW did not even go and visit.
I like FIL and do not wish any harm to him but I am conflicted on how to handle this. STBXW wants to get home early so that she can get some rest because she is not a morning person.
I could also speculate that she is completely lying so she can go back to Toronto to have a good time with OM. Don't even know or care anymore. I always accommodated her when it was critical but now I feel like I don't owe her much.
In this case, I would suggest to let STBXW figure it out. She has choices she can make. She doesn't *need* to go to Toronto... she choose to stay near her father.
So now I will be doing the same thing and she will feel like I put my job over her. A 180 would be to come home early so she can leave....
You need to be able to provide for your family. Leaving work early and spending more money will not help you do that. While you may not have made the best choices in the past with regards to working a lot, that doesn't mean you should do the opposite now. You still need to look out for the best interest of your kids and yourself. Leaving work early to convenience her, is not necessary. If this was your son having an MRI, that's a different story.
that should say "she can choose to stay..."
So I plan on texting STBXW later this morning to tell her that my schedule will not allow me to come home earlier.
CWOL, I understand your statement about letting her figure out what it is like to D. The problem is she already knows because I was working so many hours last year that she already felt like she did not have an H. So now I will be doing the same thing and she will feel like I put my job over her. A 180 would be to come home early so she can leave, it will get me more time with the boys which is great, but when my mother was in the hospital because she had a stroke, my STBXW did not even go and visit.
I like FIL and do not wish any harm to him but I am conflicted on how to handle this. STBXW wants to get home early so that she can get some rest because she is not a morning person.
I could also speculate that she is completely lying so she can go back to Toronto to have a good time with OM. Don't even know or care anymore. I always accommodated her when it was critical but now I feel like I don't owe her much.
How is this putting your children first?
Do you realize how she can use this against you in a custody case?
It's not up to you to teach W any lessons. This is not about her, but about your kids. You need to be there for the kids when she isn't. Your decision seems to be coming from a place of pride and vindictiveness. Don't you get that the more she dumps the kids on you, the better your chances are to get custody?
Document each instance and take the kids every chance you get.
Painter,
This is my weekend with the boys anyway based on our nesting plan with the court.
I will be home at my normal time which is 530. W wants me there sooner, I guess I should not care what her reason is.
Jim,
MRI on a Saturday at 6:45am? Seems awfully convenient.
You have a tendency to blame and doubt yourself for things that you don't own. You are probably right, just an excuse for your WW to take off early for the weekend.
Painter,
This is my weekend with the boys anyway based on our nesting plan with the court.
I will be home at my normal time which is 530. W wants me there sooner, I guess I should not care what her reason is.
But aren't you going back to court about custody? This is ammo for you in a custody case... Her leaving the kids with you to take off. If you can then document that there was no family illness, you will have such a strong card on your hands.
Give her all the rope you can when it comes to the kids. It has nothing to do with your R with her.
Painter,
Now I understand. Thank you. Yes, I will have to ask for records then of FIL, seems so petty but in the long run worth it.
CWOL
I do blame myself a lot. I know I shouldn't, been like this for quite a while now. You are correct I don't own it.
I will go back and spend time with my boys early today.
Glad to hear that!
You probably don't have to ask for FIL records, just give FIL a call tomorrow (all depending on your relationship, of course) and say that you wanted to check in to see how he is doing because you were worried, and to let him know that you are thinking about him. The reaction should tell you all you need to know.
So STBXW just called and wanted to verify if I would be home around 4:30. Told her I will be leaving at 2 and have to pick the rental car up and take our car to collision shop. She sounded kind of sad.
Told me a few things about the boys, took S7 and S6 to doctor and S2 has a fever. She also said she scheduled her psych exam for Tuesday and asked if my L explained how it works. I just validated and confirmed and kept everything short.
Well did the exchange this afternoon with the boys. I am back in the house for the next 5 nights. Great to see the boys again. Not sure I understand why WW did not want to wait for the bus and say good bye to the three oldest before leaving?
STBXW had a bin full of books. She wanted to leave them in the house but I loaded them in the car for her and stated they no longer need to be here. S2 and I were cheerful and bid told her to have a great weekend. She was like how, my dad is having an MRI. Funny though how she was in full make up like she was ready to go out for the night.
Spoke to neighbor after STBXW left, neighbor stated that WW keeps telling her stories of being the victim. WW says she will never come back to me. WW is concerned with the buyers suing for the house now and cannot understand why we can't come to an agreement on custody and settle this.
Make sure you document your coming home early on W's request. All documentation should be devoid of feeling or opinions, just facts - handwritten and dated notes in a notebook works just fine.
"4/29/16 - left work x hours early on W's request to take care of children. W stated she was going to (city) to take her father for an MRI. I arrived home at 2:30pm. W left at X:XXpm. She did not wait for Child 4 and 5 who were to arrive home at X:XXpm."
yes, document anything and everything. Every interaction with you and the kids, every penny spent, everything you do to accommodate, etc. Keep a notebook or voice recorder handy
So it was my weekend with the boys. Weather was rainy all weekend so went and visited my parents on Saturday. Spent about 5 hours there, boys had a good time.
Sunday was Orthodox Easter. Spent 4 hours with family and friends. We go every year to the same house. Everyone was cheerful and nice, I was not in a good mood. Missed having W with me. In the past she would want to socialize with the adults while I watched the boys. Nothing was different this year other than W not being there.
Woke up 3 times last night. Sleep is getting worse. W walked into the house this morning at 6:45 am handed me keys to the car and all I said was good morning cheerfully. She looked tired and went straight upstairs to the MBR.
She goes to first psyc eval meeting tomorrow evening and Wednesday I have court for the house. So many changes are happening this is not how I wanted things to turn out.
I am beginning to doubt my efforts to be the rock for the boys. I am trying my best.
I just feel like listening to Ls and fighting for custody is draining us financially.
I feel that I should have listened to DB coach and built a friendship with her. I know a lot of people on the boards don't agree with this approach or recommendation but I am out of options.
Maybe this was just a rough weekend for me.
I am just having a hard time seeing any light at the end of the tunnel.
This afternoon I get home from work. My night again with the boys. Went to pick up prescriptions for S7. Texted STBXW that pharmacy lost the script. STBXW gets all upset because I dropped it off yesterday when she said she would take care of it. Well she had all day Thursday and Friday to drop it off but did not so I took it over the weekend. I shrugged it off and said that the pharmacy will call doctor to get refill.
Next topic we address is S6 is acting out on school bus. Pushing his brother and not sitting down. Actually got a write up this time from bus driver. Told W that he has been throwing tantrums all weekend and been defiant. She stated that he never acts that way with her at her parents. I commented back saying that his brothers stated that S6 does have tantrums there also but not as bad. W tries to get boys involved in conversation and I cut it off right away telling her that this needs to go no further in front of the boys and if she wants we can discuss later. No additional comments from W. We agreed S6 would do some small chores this evening.
She then tries to continue to update me on what I should do with the boys the rest of the evening. I told her I appreciated the input and will handle it from here, thanked her again and politely told her she was free to leave and go to her hotel for the night. WW was not happy about that. Well I guess since I am no longer her H she doesn't get to treat me like a doormat.
It kind of felt good to take a stand.
This morning W wanted to discuss the D. She continues to state that this will be over by the time the boys are done with school in mid June. I replied with I am not sure when it will be over. I stated our biggest issue is custody. I suggested 50/50 here in Michigan and she stated that she does not live here. She says the judge will give her custody and allow her and the boys to live in Toronto. I just replied with we will have to wait and see.
We then started to talk about the past and she continued to spew about how I filed first. Continues to say I did not unfile fast enough and how I did not do any grand gestures when she came back to reconcile in February. I politely cut her off and said well I am not interested in having this conversation about the past anymore and will not be an enabler to your poor behavior. If your family chooses to do so then so be it.
I walked out the door to go to work. She followed me and stood at the door and repeatedly said "well let me tell you something" which I politely responded with the conversation is over have a nice day and got in my car and left. Needless to say she was not happy she did not get the last word.
There has been no change in WW. I just cannot understand how she has no remorse for her actions and no respect for an M. I may not be the most mature adult, but neither has she. I wish I could understand if there is something truly wrong with her like MLC or NPD.
I also told her that she can go do whatever she wants with OM and that she can have a good time with him giving her attention (Although deep down I am upset that she is hurting me like this). I want to raise my kids and am doing what is best for me and the boys.
I think most of the conversations you had were good. No need to talk about OM and say things that aren't true. I'm glad to see you enforced your boundary of which topics to discuss and how you will (will not) be treated by her. Keep it up!
Have you been in touch with your sons' teachers? Any plan to provide IC for your boys? Sounds like S6 could use someone to talk with.
So I have phone records now of WW's cell phone. So many text messages from all these numbers I don't even know. I don't have the text messages. Part of me wants to know but all that will do is make me upset and have more anger for her behavior. 5 young boys I don't even know how I will ever get over this person I don't know anymore. I am the type of person that wants to take care of people, but I don't want to be treated like dirt.
Journaling
The exchange this afternoon did not go well. Came home 10 minutes early. WW decides that she is not cooking dinner for boys since it is my night with them.
I made dinner for the boys, pizza, nothing great since I did not have any notice of this coming.
Only thing she did all day at the house was wash S4's bed sheets because he wet the bed last night. She did not even make the bed after the sheets were dry. Instead she was on the computer looking for basketball tickets for the Raptors game this weekend, I am sure to go with OM. She plans on taking boys to Toronto again for Mother's Day.
I also find out from boys that WW gets upset that I don't prepare lunches on my nights or in the morning. Well she gets here at 7 am and boys don't leave until 8:50 am on the bus.
Needless to say, nothing else was done around the house today. No laundry for the boys, there was a load ready to be folded and ironed.
S4 told me that he and S2 went shopping with WW and she bought a coffee.
I wanted her out of the house so quickly today. She definitely pushed my buttons and we exchanged words. She got the satisfaction of my bitterness today to justify her leaving the M.
Need to learn to control these sitches better.
So the rest of the evening I just focused on my kids and had a decent night.
I think most of the conversations you had were good. No need to talk about OM and say things that aren't true. I'm glad to see you enforced your boundary of which topics to discuss and how you will (will not) be treated by her. Keep it up!
Have you been in touch with your sons' teachers? Any plan to provide IC for your boys? Sounds like S6 could use someone to talk with.
Agree and have the same questions.
JimKao I feel for you Man! I hope you come out of this mess soon. I know you will come out a stronger person thats for sure. Don't have alot of advice as I'm new to the site. I'm listening though and pulling for you!
Yes, both WW and I have been in contact with teachers. They understand our situation. Pysch evaluation is in process now for custody. Not sure how much benefit IC will have at this point. She has S6, S6, S7 conditioned to want to live with her.
I do want to take the boys to IC but not sure when to start.
I'm serious confused with your story and I have read through it. If your in the US, and she leaves to go to Canada, why not just file for full custody due to abondomint? Being in a different country shouldn't be a sign of an available parent and wanting to remove them from the US sounds like bs.
Ralph
I did counterfile for physical custody.
I think she feels she has a case against me. She feels she does not have to work and can be a SAHM.
This is her story, WW is saying this will happen. I am concerned she has some serious mental issues that need to be addressed. Yes, I was an emotional person in the past, but I still worry that this is even a possibility. I am not sure how her L is advising her to say it's ok to move the boys 4 hours away from their father.
Spoke with L today to review what psychologist may ask me at next week's appointment. Not very excited about doing this interview. I need to convince this person that I am at least equal or better than W to raise the boys? I guess I need to be a little selfish about this.
Later in afternoon WW calls me saying S2 is sick and is taking him to hospital. Tells me she took him to doctor yesterday because he had a stye in his eye (she is supposed to notify me of these things). Starts to spew that she has to take all 5 boys with her. Told her I was on my way and she kept saying no need for me to go, she will just have to take them all again (Rewriting history again because I always took the boys when she was freaking out about them being sick). Then she started to spew more about not finding S2's Medicaid card which I gave to her months ago. She started to blame me again for losing the card and I just hung up.
By the time I got close to hospital WW texts and says she left and is home. I asked if I could come by to see S2 and she did not answer. I went anyway and she just met me at front door and gave me update on what happened. WW thought S2 could possibly have meningitis, doctor told her that S2 has swollen lymph nodes that is why he couldn't move his neck after nap.
Then she tries to blame me for S2 being sick. Started to infer that he started to get sick when I had him for my overnights earlier in the week. Well she has been with him everyday, did she not notice? So I walked away from the front door and got back in my car and told her to have a good night.
I am getting so tired of taking all the blame. Any suggestions on how to handle this better would be appreciated.
Just consider the ridiculousness of it - how did you give S2 an infection? Is she suggesting that you did it on purpose? Or that you somehow neglected to sanitize his environment and keep him in a sterile bubble?
I think you handled it perfectly. You expressed concern for your child, went to see him (make sure you document that you were refused access!), and didn't let yourself get dragged into an argument.
If she tries to slam you with the psychologist that you are at fault because a 2 year old happened to get sick on your time - and it was not an injury caused by you letting him play with scissors or matches while watching a ballgame and drinking beer - you have nothing to fear. They see right through that. They do not like parents who try to focus on how neglectful or bad the other parent is. They realize that up until recently, this was a person you felt comfortable with having your children, so why is he/she suddenly unfit?
In your situation, I would focus on your concern about her moving, that the children should have access to their mother, but that her choice to want to move out of the country with them, is too much - uprooting them, taking them away from you and everything they know, etc.
Did you find out if your FIL actually had an MRI the other day?
In your situation, I would focus on your concern about her moving, that the children should have access to their mother, but that her choice to want to move out of the country with them, is too much - uprooting them, taking them away from you and everything they know, etc.
Did you find out if your FIL actually had an MRI the other day?
My L stated the same thing, focus on WW request to uproot the boys.
I have not been able to confirm whether FIL actually had an MRI. I sent a text to WW's BIL but he did not respond. I will try and call SIL to see if she will say something.
Any thoughts on whether or not I should get WW flowers from the boys for Mother's Day? They made cards for her and she it taking them to Toronto this weekend.
I sent her authorization paperwork to take them over the border and wished her a Happy Mother's Day and received no response.
If there is ever to be even a cordial friendship it will not happen for many years after the D is finalized.
It's only been the 3rd day and I miss my boys.
Since she will be gone this weekend, I have lots to do around the house to keep me busy. Will try and get together with some friends also and get my mind off of her.
Still hoping she will get out of the fog but I truly think that she feels entitled to be an SAHM. She does not acknowledge any changes I have made anymore. In my heart I am more content and happy with who I am but still sad that she is not wanting to keep the family together.
I ordered some books, 2 arrive tomorrow, No More Mr. Nice Guy and Rebuilding Trust "Not just Friends". Plan on reading these over the next couple of weeks.
It continues to drive me crazy that I could have done what DB coach suggested and moved up to Toronto. Would it have been a positive relationship with WW, yes, and it would have been major cake eating also.
I would be living the rest of my life taking the boys every chance that I could just so she could play SAHM. I don't think this would be good for me long term, I would always be hoping she would come back. I would probably feel the same way I do now, just getting through the day and feeling happier when I would be with the boys.
I guess I have always had a low self esteem, never given myself enough credit. I need to figure out how to get the fun loving person I once was back.
JimKao,
Don't be so hard on yourself. Easy for me to say since I do the same thing as do most of us on here.
I would ask your boys if they want to give mom any other gifts and then assist them in getting them. The flowers you suggested would really be from you, and my opinion is that she would know that and it would give her another chance to twist it into thinking poorly of you. When she is in this fog it is tough because you can't do anything right in her mind.
Focus on you and becoming a great dad. Maybe get a book on parenting during a divorce. This is a critical time for your boys.
JimKao,
I want to echo tjcran. Don't be so hard on yourself. All the woulda, coulda, shoulda's will not benefit us now. Also there is no proof doing those things would have changed any outcomes. Focus on the moment and make yourself a better person for the future.
You are doing the right things to learn, and hopefully put into practice steps that will do this for you.
For those of us in these situations our depression is based on our past mistakes and the anxiety is based on letting our past paint our future. The reality is that if we learn from the past, act differently in the present, then our future will be brighter.
Let the boys decide on the Mother's Day gifts and let them put there love into it with your support but I agree don't send flowers if they would be from you.
Keep your head held high and that will be the beginning of getting that self confidence back.
Have a good day my friend.