Warning Long post.
Since that time, i have made all the mistakes. You know what i'm talking about - try to hard, plead, do nice things, gifts.
Im stopping all that now. Hopefully its not too late to do a complete 180 and quite possibly LRT.
My question is, is LRT appropriate for my case? My wife feels i have neglected her as i am hardly home. Full time job and side business running a gym, so alot of nights i was not at home. Intimacy started to wane 6-8 months ago which is entirely my fault.
She had an injury that caused her to no be able to do her hobbies, she was an avid gym going, a regular at my gym in fact so we spent time togther quite a bit. Then she hurt her knees 6 months ago. Instead of being home with her i was running my gym, i even put in more nights there as we were struggling alittle. This i feel proved my undoing, i think she fell into a depression and i was not there for her cause i was a typical guy / oblivious husband.
Fast forward to 5 weeks ago at my prompting she finally admitted she had no feelings for me. I did not take it well ~ i may have said some things. After that it was like a complete flip of the switch, no intimacy whatsoever. Before she admitted it we were still going through the motions kiss before work, hug to sleep etc but now nothing.
Yesterday, she was not wearing her ring. This hurt. Alot.
Shes not having an affair yet although she has mentioned that she wants to move on and that shes not getting any younger. She wants to find happiness.I know she likes someone in her office but he is also married with two kids. I believe its more of a crush than an actual affair.
In my case a 180 for me would be to be more present, attentive and there for her but shes is adamant she is done. Is LRT really the way to go as this would seem the same behaviour as what got me here in the first place.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Generally the only time a woman KNOWS she no longer loves her husband is when she has already fallen in love with someone else.
You know she has a crush on the married guy at the office so how do you know it's not already a full blown affair?
You can't ask her....if she's cheating, she'll lie. ESPECIALLY when the affair is with a married man. She'll lie to protect him and their relationship from being broken up by his wife.
Maybe I'm wrong but the only way to know for sure (and it's important to know for sure because a walk away wife is completely different from a wayward wife) is to verify whether she's cheating independently from asking her. Don't even let on that you are suspicious....just buy a voice activated digital voice recorder (use cash and hide the receipt and don't put your voice on it in case it's ever found and return it for a refund within 30 days at most stores) and hide it in her car. Should take long to catch a conversation or two between her and the likely OM or her and her "in the know" girlfriend.
This is not snooping, rather an initial important verification step to independently verify and ascertain the truth about your life.
Never divulge the source of your information. If you discover an affair, you aren't obligated to report how or what you know. If the recorder ever got discovered...it wasn't yours.
In my case a 180 for me would be to be more present, attentive and there for her but shes is adamant she is done. Is LRT really the way to go as this would seem the same behaviour as what got me here in the first place.
You cannot be there for her, the 180 is for you, and your kids, no-one else.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I have the DR book and am seeing a counselor (alone), i offered but she was not interested at all.
I broke down alittle bit today but thankfully noone was home. Her not wearing her ring and mentioning she wants to move on and just the other day she said she'd be responsible with my son when being with other guys. Has worn me down.
I cant bear the thought of leaving my son but if she wants to end our marriage so badly i feel now i will let her go, although i might change my mind tomorrow, my emotions are a whack. Problem is i think she is waiting for me to leave.
I want to have this talk, letting her know i love her and i want to work things out but if she feels the need to be with another man than she should go. Should i wait while continue doing 180s? Im seeing counsellor on monday afternoon but feel i might break this weekend.
i think she fell into a depression
If this is true then why do you think it is your job to make her happy?
i think she fell into a depression
If this is true then why do you think it is your job to make her happy?
Not sure i understand, but for me when she got the injury it took away her "thing" her "hobby". Instead of being there i actually spent less time with her due to business problems and this went on for a few months. I feel this was a catalyst in her losing love for me.
About her happiness, isnt it a husbands job to ensure a happy wife? or thats what i thought despite failing badly.
No it is each persons job to make themselves happy.
You can not be responsible for making her happy that is really up to her.
So the best thing you can do is to work on your own happiness.
Make plans and goals to do this.
Happiness can be contagious.
You can only CONTOL yourself.
I cant bear the thought of leaving my son but if she wants to end our marriage so badly i feel now i will let her go, although i might change my mind tomorrow, my emotions are a whack. Problem is i think she is waiting for me to leave.
Listen to Georgia and verify if there is an OM or not first.
Do NOT move out until you have seen a lawyer. Moving out first may mean giving up your son's custody, which appears important to you.
I cant bear the thought of leaving my son but if she wants to end our marriage so badly i feel now i will let her go, although i might change my mind tomorrow, my emotions are a whack. Problem is i think she is waiting for me to leave.
Listen to Georgia and verify if there is an OM or not first.
Do NOT move out until you have seen a lawyer. Moving out first may mean giving up your son's custody, which appears important to you.
Easier said then done. She hasnt been in contact with her friends for awhile and she is extremely private. The only way is if i slip a voice recorder in her bag and hope noone finds it.
Weeks after being told she doesnt love me, i now know for sure there is another man.
Weeks of trying, weeks(months actually if include before BD) of wondering why im being rejected. The whole time i thought there was something wrong with me.
After finally prizing the truth from her this morning i feel emboldened. A weight lifted off my shoulders, i am not entirely to blame and i know now why all my advances were turned down.
I told her to remove herself from the master bedroom, today she will sleep on the coach until we determine what the long term plan will be.
I've let her know that while i still love her and am willing to give the marriage another chance i cannot have her polluting our bed while she has designs for another man. In spite i may have also reached out to the OM's wife to let her know as well. I do not know if she has read my texts as so far no response.
Did i do the right thing? My son (5 Years) will be devastated. I myself broke down when he handed me his broken transformers toy just now, i had to tell him i could not fix it and in my heart i thought the same about his little family. I have cried more in the last three weeks than i have in 2 decades.
Yes you did the right thing, however stick to one thread until 100 posts
Good job in not moving out of the MBR
I agree, I know you're hurting. But you did the right thing, you stated your boundaries and that's an important thing. Now stick to them.
The important part now is to look after yourself the best that you can. And part of that is looking after your S and protect him from all the crazy. You need to be the level headed steady parent for him. I'm totally in this with you, and although hard, I find in a way children help us. They give us that person to love, person to protect. Take him out, play with him. Anything you can to help to improve you and make you the best man you can be.
We're here for you
Do not move from your home.
Stay strong for your S, at this juncture you are the stronger parent and more stable for your S.
Please read Sandis posts about Wayward Wives, stand strong you can not 'nice' your WW back.
V
Thank you Cadet for editing into this thread.
I've cried so much today and i fear i may cry more before the night is out. Im starting to doubt my manhood a little bit in a jokingly kind of way.
This will be the first night i sleep alone in my marriage bed. Im dreading it. It feels final somehow. She has shown no signs of remorse, infact she has set herself up pretty comfortably on the couch. Maybe im just giving her too much credit.
You did good at setting your boundaries. I know the hurt your going through, but you must try, and focus on you, and your S for now. Hang in there.
It feel so counter-intuitive. Before was cold bed, now that i kicked her to the coach it feels like she hates me.
Im trying to go LRT on her but its like shes going all NC on me, well as NC as two people who live under same roof can be.
Let it unfold in time. It will get easier for you.
Hold your boundary.
V
I'm already sleeping in the other room, I actually sleep better, although i wake up early and can't go back to sleep. But my body will get used to the lonely bed.
It will definitely get easier.
I have gradually learned sleep tricks. Things that I can do to fall asleep and then stay there.
V
What are they Vanilla?
Falling asleep is not a real problem, because i'm so exhausted. I don't each much lately, so hunger does keep me awake - could be why i can't fall asleep after i wake up...mmmmmhh.
Hello Natus,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You are so smart to recognize that DB is counter intuitive. Good for you regarding staying in the master bedroom. Of course she isn't happy about it. She would like to have the best of both worlds.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
My tricks
Getting to sleep
Nytol
Sleep hypnosis recording
Warm bath
Chocolate drink (warm)
Clean bedlinen
No coffee after 6pm
No liquid after 9pm (no loos)
Exercise heavy in the morning
Getting up early every morning
Skipping a nights sleep
Ensuring no lights in bedroom
Getting back to sleep after waking
Sleeping other side of bed
Putting boring program on TV that I have seen many times
Listening to a boring lecture
Reading boring material
Heavy bed covers
Eating protein
Milk and rusk
V
I've let her know that while i still love her and am willing to give the marriage another chance i cannot have her polluting our bed while she has designs for another man. In spite i may have also reached out to the OM's wife to let her know as well. I do not know if she has read my texts as so far no response.
You did the right thing. I've been there before too, I doubted myself for a long time but I couldn't believe my WW would betray me a second time. Good job on reaching out to OM's wife, that will help break up their A. Only when the A has ended can the two of you truly reconcile.
Natus,
You ARE doing the right things. Great job standing up for yourself with your boundary and also reaching out to OM's wife. from the threads I have read since I found this site, you hjave got to hit the affair head on like a Mack truck and bust that thing wide open. There is NO work to be done on you M while the affair is still happening. Stay strong and listen to the advice of the vets. Time to GAL like a mofo if you ask me, show her you will be just fine without her and watch what happens as her affair crumbles to the ground.
Only thing is you said you might have text OM's wife. Did she respond? Be aggressive, call her. Make sure she knows the gravity of what her H has done. She deserves to know the truth, too.
You can do this! Stay strong, keep posting and YOU WILL SURVIVE.
-Cube
Hey all thank you for all the support. Okay long update.
The OM's Wife reached out to me that night after reading my texts. we had a chat, it turned out she was aware of her husband and my wife for months. Since they work together (OM is W boss) even their office has been suspicious and rumors have been going around. I guess i am the last guy to know.
Ended up comparing notes with OM's Wife, what she knows and what little i know (since this is all fresh for me).
I spiraled down alittle that night and gave in to anger, paranoia, jelousy and all the other dark thoughts.
Monday morning i was no better and all i could think of was dark thoughts the whole day. Thankfully i had a counselling session that late afternoon. That helped alot. Calmed me down and helped me focus as well.
Came home from work and had a brief chat with wife. The OM had fought with his wife apparently and i think the reality has gotten to my Wife now that the cats out the bag. Shes the nasty lady after another woman's husband.
(You guys are going to give me flak for this next piece) I decided to be the better man and told her i couldn't let her sleep on the couch, that my son shouldn't see his mummy that way and neither would i. I told her to take the Master Bedroom and that I will sleep on the couch like she did the previous night.
Earlier that day I had also texted her sister whom she has had no contact with for a few months because of me. A bad incident involving her husband showing up at my business place with a machete accusing my business partner of adultery with his wife.
Suffice to say because of the incident i cut ties with sister and her husband. (A little backstory, wife's sister is an ex-con ex-junkie whom after serving time i hired to work at my business. She had been working for me with no problems for two years until this incident)
My wife blamed me for the distance between her and her sister so i reached out and the sister came to the house that night. That made wife happy to reconnect with her sister.
I think she went to bed a little happy cause in the morning she told me i didn't need to sleep on the couch. In the car to work she chatted about a funny incident at work the previous day and few other things. Right before i dropped her off she said "see you later"... That is a first in 5 weeks. I was surprised, i smiled back at her and said "yea".
I cant help feel this is a positive step but also i'm done hoping, i'm done with tears, i'm keeping my expectations down cause she sees the OM at work everyday and i know anything can change at anytime.
Apologies, so much back story.
Btw, a small additional back story about wife's ex-junkie ex-con sister. I also practically adopted her son, he has been living with me past 3-4 years and i consider him my son too.
After this morning I asked her out for lunch today.
I know i know i am not suppose initiate contact, surprisingly she agreed. Before i didn't think this was possible since BD.
We had a pleasant-ish lunch, we talked about worked. She asked about my counseling session which i initially overshared that i needed yesterday's session because i was in a bad place. She tried to ask more but i asked her nicely if we could talk about something else.
She looked surprised that i didn't want to share, there was an awkward silence before she asked me about my day at work.
During the lunch before food came she looked really down. I reached out across the table and put my hand on hers and asked gently whats wrong. She didn't pull her hand away (also new) but before she could say anything food came.
While picking at our food she brought up her lawyer friend who was coming to dinner on Thursday. I offered to get out of her hair and watch our son so she can talk freely with lawyer friend but she said no need, she wasn't going to ask about "that" (separating or divorce). I thought that was weird.
Driving her back to work was a little awkward, i think we both didn't know what to say or you know act. I commented about how its been awhile since we had lunch together. She agreed. Then i stupidly added "i like it" (the lunch). She just nodded. I was mentally kicking myself for not shutting up.
During the entire trip she kept fiddling with her thumbs or bag strap. I am convinced she wants to say something. I don't know if its a good or bad thing. To be honest my mind wondered to the negative, that its probably about OM. So my shields came back up.
Dropping her off she said "see you later" again.
This is a weird day for me. I have convinced myself she has chosen OM over me and am emotionally trying to detach but now shes being softer around me. Help me god i want to bash someones head in.
Also its been almost 2 months since we had any intimacy (she completely outright rejected me since BD and we didnt have any for a few weeks before) and ummm lately i have been getting hyper sexual day dreams about my wife - at inappropriate times too.
Porn is not working, neither is the flesh light i bought.
I am actually afraid to sleep in the same bed as her now. I am convinced that if i do i am going full werewolf. I guess i am sleeping on the couch again tonight even though she told me i didn't have to. Suffice to say i haven't told her about this.
Natus, you have quite the yo-yo thing going on there. I know you said about reading my previous thread, but I do not know if you read my entire story. The reason I mention that, is try not read good intentions into just every day things with your WW. Mine would give me little hints that an actual person was in there but would then flip the script on me.
I have not seen it hear on your thread but you have probably read it elsewhere on someone else's. Regardless, I want to remind you, it took a long time (often years) for your M to get where it is. There will not me a quick fix to broken pieces of your M. Some people on this board have put years of work in before it showed any positive signs. Do you have that kind of patience?? I ask because I did not. When I began to think rationally, I looked at my M and realized I did not want to return to that as it was unhealthy for me.
Therefore, I was a failure at DBing when it comes to my sitch, just as I was in picking my W and in my M. What I gained through this process was a newly found sense of myself. With that disclaimer, here is what I think of your sitch.... I think you are pursuing way too much (sorry to be the one that has to say it, cause I really hated truth darts on my thread). Yes it is softening her but is it making her fall back in love with you. While I tell you my opinion, only you know your sitch and have to decide whether it is a method that is working or causing guilt for her. If you suspect guilt then you need to stop, you wouldn't want someone just because of their sense of obligation... Right?
I wish you the best of luck. It is a horrible place for any of us to be. It truly [censored] to be here but at least you are surrounded by great people!
Natus,
Tim is right in saying you are pursuing way to much. You need to focus more on yourself, and detach. Also take back that Master.
Thanks for the reminder Tim and GWH.
I am trying to find the balance between being present and not pursuing as well.
I am back in the master bedroom. Its hard because this is the women of my dreams literally and she is in my bed yet she isnt.
Last night the OM's wife came to my house with OM and sister in tow to confront my wife. It got heated between them. For me i got to learn more details of my wife's EA, how even though she had feelings for OM she actually did not pursue him and that she had actually applied to transfer away from their office but was rejected by head office.
I mostly just observed and kept my cool, interjecting alittle in my wifes defense from time to time because despite everything her emotional well being does mean alot to me.
I got to observe a moment where the OM denied ever expressing feelings for my wife and i could tell from the look in my wifes eyes at that moment that the man just lied in front of everyone. The OM had just betrayed her. I kept silent.
After when everyone left my wife and i sat down again. At first i thought she wanted to chew me out but turned out she wanted to let her feelings out. I sat and validated her. It felt very much like us against them but i kept that to myself.
It light of all of this i am trying to detach. Im telling myself even though if she doesn't end up with OM i still have a WAW. Somehow i feel that is much harder to tackle than a wife who still loves you but cheated.
Hi Natus,
Whoa! That sounds like quite the heated conversation for everyone involved.
Good job validating her, but be cautious. Keep to your DB plan.
The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Many of your online friends will agree that Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and keep your family together. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Christy,
Thank you for the offer for DB coach. I live half way across the world in Brunei (GMT +8), a small country near Malaysia and Kuala Lumpur. How would it work? logistically?
i suppose i dont mind being up at odd hours for the telephone coaching.
Nature
Let your WW come to terms with the fact that OM is a lying scumbag.
Say nothing not even told you so, that's invalidating.
Validate her hurt feelings and let her grieve her expectations.
Breathe, breathe.
Give it time.
Shrug and let go.
V
I have a hard time letting go. Im trying but i feel i may not be DBing enough.
My wife is making plans with me, asking me out for movies. Yet she maintains (or is trying to) that she has no feelings for me.
We maintain a bit of contact during the day even though i try not to initiate it. Mostly revolving our son.
Its almost like we are a normal happy family minus the affection between husband and wife. Im wondering should i pull away, LRT, or maintain the happy family thing? GAl is not much of an option cause i had plenty of that, infact that seems to be the primary reason for our predicament.
I have a hard time letting go. Im trying but i feel i may not be DBing enough.
My wife is making plans with me, asking me out for movies. Yet she maintains (or is trying to) that she has no feelings for me.
We maintain a bit of contact during the day even though i try not to initiate it. Mostly revolving our son.
Its almost like we are a normal happy family minus the affection between husband and wife. Im wondering should i pull away, LRT, or maintain the happy family thing? GAl is not much of an option cause i had plenty of that, infact that seems to be the primary reason for our predicament.
I can really relate to the bolded.
In light of my most recent conversation with H, I am leaning toward some serious distancing, but I'm too new at this to offer any advice.
Yea one minute she is nice, suggesting movies then tonight shes pouty and treating me like the bad guy everytime i say something.
Im getting a bit fed up, gona have to go over my DB list and start strong in the morning.
Hello Natus,
Even though you are not in the USA, the DB telephone coaching program is still a great resource. We work with many, many people from all over the world.
Please feel free to call or email me and we can figure out the logistics.
I'm wishing you the very best.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I am horrible at this DB thing. Everyday i think today i'll DB strong then by end of the day im left picking up the pieces.
I cant detach, i am obsessed, infatuated, and everything else in between. Try hardest i might not to show it. I also want to give in to my darkest thoughts.
Christy, i have sent you an email to find out more on the DB telephone coaching. I need to do this.
Every day a new feeling. I want to think i have a handle on my feelings and so far so good past two days. One minor slip up (waking up in the middle of the night wanting to reach out and pull her into my arms).
I had to go back and reassess my goals and re-read DR. Finding out i may have missed some things in my goal setting by aiming to big to fast and not appreciating small successes.
My wife has started to relax around me, shes sharing and joking and including me in short term plans albeit it involves my son but she didn't need to. I'm trying not to read too much into it.
She is still not wearing her ring and so far no attempts at intimacy save for a few seconds last night her feet brushed up against mine under the covers. It could have just been her shifting in her sleep but she has been very careful since BD to ensure she makes no physical contact with me in bed, to the point she sleeps curled up (to me seems overkill and smacks a little like trying too much) so this brushing feet thing is new.
With my refined set of goals i feel a little better. The only thing i have issue reconciling is that most of the members here seem to take a hard / harsh stance to their WAW. Im just here validating and doing my 180s, do i need to take the hard stance? My IC doesnt seem to think so, he says i should continue being thoughful and validating while not being pushy and pursuing. Granted i am only one month in.
Natus, I'm not taking a hard stance either.
On the other hand, we're still making love, so I'm pretty sure I'm breaking all kind of rules.
Hello Natus,
I'm in the office until 6pm central time. I have also sent a response to your email. Let's connect soon so we can figure out the logistics.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Natus, I'm not taking a hard stance either.
On the other hand, we're still making love, so I'm pretty sure I'm breaking all kind of rules.
Don't worry, Rose, I did the same thing. In my case it was hysterical bonding (HB). I think in my sitch it helped bring us closer.
Yea.... Making love would be a huge step up from current position. Nowhere near that right now.
Hi Christy, i am about 13hours ahead. Ill try to make a call sometime today 27Apr18 around 4pm central time (5am my time GMT+8).
Natus,
I think you need to keep "doing you". I think your wife is still grieving the OM and thus her ups & downs. DON"T get me wrong, this is an important part of the process, but don't be to eager. Don't sweep this under the rug. Until she says with remorse and repentance that she wants to make your M work, you are not out of the woods. The issues that got you into this sitch are in you, your M and your WW. NOT the OM. Just because he is gone, doesn't mean the problem is. If i were you, I would be reading everything I could on piecing, forgiveness, reconciliation and in DEEP prayer. This is probably going to be the hardest part. No expectations and Make sure that you do things right, that she puts in the work. That way you are never in this sitch again. Without fixing the issues, it is only hitting a "Snooze alarm" in you sitch. Keep posting, we are all here for YOU.
Thank you Cutebot. Its silly that i need to be constantly reminded of this.
Its interesting you said her ups and down because last night she slept in curled ball position again. That was after having a pretty good (i did not screw up) day.
Need to vent, hopefully im not spamming.
This lunch break my mind went to the dark place. I am having a problem handling that W's EA works in same office. Even though she has stated nothing is going on and she is always home by dinner. They are always working later than everyone else in their office by atleast an hour. An hour i know its just the two of them in the office most of the time.
I dont show it but i am not okay with it. I tell her i understand her work, which i do but i really cant handle that she sees OM everyday. I want to believe that its nothing but the demons on my shoulder whisper otherwise.
Cant ask her to quit, nowhere for her to move.
Aside from above no suspicious behavior at home or even on phone but she could be being careful.
Natus,
You are in a hard spot right now. The A has been exposed but as I know first hand, that doesn't mean it has stopped. It could be still going on right under your nose. Has your W expressed any remorse? Has she admitted to any wrong doing? Or is she just wanting to sweep all this under the rug. You've got to be careful about letting her back too easily and quickly. If things aren't dealt with properly, she'll go right back to the A. She works with him so its just too easy.
Definitely detach and don't pursue. Make her pursue YOU. LRT is definitely appropriate once and A is confirmed. You really shouldn't be pulling back from LRT unless you see that the fog is starting to clear, that they are remorseful and that they are willing to do the work to repair the damage they have done. Again, if not dealt with properly, they will go back to the A and even turn this EA into a PA. You've got to be strong and firm in how you deal with this. You did the right thing by contacting OM's W. Set boundaries and expect your WW to adhere to them. Can you look at her phone to make sure she's not emailing/texting/calling OM?
Natus,
I'm sorry about your situation. My wife is in an EA and I think dealing with an EA may possibly be a lot more difficult than a PA because it's so easy to dismiss as "just friends."
I'm glad you're not okay with your wife's EA. You shouldn't be okay with it; it's a violation of your marriage. My wife tried to paint me as the bad guy, and I actually questioned myself a number of times. It took a good MC to whack me over the head and wake me up.
I know this doesn't help you feel better right now, but I know what my MC would say to me if I were in your situation, "Yes, an hour extra at work is a long time."
I know how painful all of this stuff is for you; I'm living it. Do whatever you can to get your mind off of it. GAL, get some exercise and focus on happy stuff. Again I'm sorry about what's going on in your life right now; I hope you feel better soon.
Nate, I feel for you. I'm in the same spot - W still works with OM and although she's expressed a TON of remorse and has sworn up and down nothing is going on, how do we TRULY know it just hasn't gone underground?
When I first found out, I told the wife I'll be monitoring her phone like a hawk. And sure enough, there is nothing on her phone. Again, that doesn't mean she's adding a chat program and deleting it immediately. OR - even, she may be just keeping the A going at work and I have no idea.
W can't find another job due to the situation she's in. She worked years to get to the position and income we've needed, so for her to quit would set us back horribly financially. But when I've brought it up before, she says, "I'm completely transparent with you, I don't know what else I can do to prove to you I'm 100% back into fixing the marriage and no longer involved with him. Why would I jeopardize the reconciliation?" Which is true, I mean, how else can you prove it? Short of putting a voice recorder on her 24/7, I only have her word. But I think this is something I have to bring up in MC.
Just recently, I found the OM W's phone number. I'm still on the fence about contacting her, being we're going into 3 months of recovery. MC said its a very bad idea, but still - I want the [censored] to suffer like I did.
Based on the aadictive nature of affairs, and the behavior patterns of a WW in an A, I strongly advise you not to trust either of them. I can pretty much tell you what happened the next working day after OM's W and sister took him to your house and he denied feelings for your W. She goes to work and is angry and hurt at him, so he sweet talks her and assures her it was just an act b/c he had to convince his W and sister b/c of what they will try to do to him. Anyway, your W buys into his b.s. b/c she wants desperately to believe him.
What I find hard to believe is that you actually think they went back to the same routine and the affair just ended b/c of what was said at your house that night. Let me tell you three things, for now. 1). As long as she is in any type of contact with OM, her EA will not likely end. That's like expecting an heroin addict to get clean while he's shooting up. 2). You cannot trust her at her word, right now. 3). In order for the M to stand a chance, she has to change her place of employment.
Natus,
You are in a hard spot right now. The A has been exposed but as I know first hand, that doesn't mean it has stopped. It could be still going on right under your nose. Has your W expressed any remorse? Has she admitted to any wrong doing? Or is she just wanting to sweep all this under the rug.
Im not sure if its remorse but i confronted her today and she says her and OM hasnt been speaking since the "intervention" if you can call it that. She maintains however that the problems is between me and her and that just because she is not seeing OM does not mean we will get back together. She has checked out of our relationship and the EA just happened to be there.
Despite everything she has agreed that until we are separated that we wont see other people, EA or otherwise.
Part i dont get, she says she has checked out so why are we still together? Why hasn't she pushed for separation? It cant be cake eating, we both earn the same and enough to live comfortably individually. I know she hasnt told anyone else, i feel she is waiting for me to give up just so she can say its a mutual decision to go our separate ways.
In order for the M to stand a chance, she has to change her place of employment.
She has worked a decade in that company to get to where she is at. Highly respected, year on year top performer, pretty much sought after by upper management for projects. Her job is literally her second home. Part of her identity even.
That is something i could not ask her to change when she was still in love with me. Far fetched now that she doesnt.
My only silver lining is that the company is winding down its operations although that is still 2-3 years off.
Natus,
She's still checked out because she still has feelings for the OM and you're plan B. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's what it looks like to me.
I'm new at this stuff, so understand that I could be wrong, but my wife is in an EA so I've got a little bit of experience with it. Someone else still has your wife's heart.
Natus,
Don't believe what she says, my WW said the exact same thing.
The truth is OM has taken over your place in her heart.
If she really loved you and really wanted to work on saving the M,she would do anything you asked. Despite the exposure, she still has feelings for OM. She feels like she still has you and so she has nothing to lose. Drope the rope, as long you're there for her, you will always be her plan B.
Natus,
Don't believe what she says, my WW said the exact same thing.
The truth is OM has taken over your place in her heart.
^^^^This is the root of the problem why she doesn't want to be with you. I believe Sandi is probably right on what happened the next day once OM wasn't with his W.
I am in a similar situation of not really being able to ask anything of my WW. Time to GAL and "Be mysterious" if you ask me. I know that you say it's more of the same, but what else can you do at this point, smother her? Act as if, NO R TALKS, GAL, and detach.
Kinda agree with everyone here. She's not showing remorse at all.
What my W did when I found out:
1. Nearly had a nervous breakdown. Immediately left the house when I told her to get out. Was suicidal as well, curled in a fetal position in some seedy hotel room when I got to her.
2. She called her best friend to get an appointment with HER counselor (when her friend and H had M issues) and set up an appointment for the two of us for IC and MC.
3. Showed immediate remorse and vowed to do "whatever it took" to save the marriage - and vowed to dig deep to see why she would even do such a thing (and has been in IC and MC for the last 9 weeks).
I understand your sitch, too. My W has been with her company for 5 years and she finally broke through a pay barrier and is now making good money, enough for us to finally enjoy. For her to start over at 49 would be so difficult, if not impossible, for a woman in her line of work. We would probably have to stop IC and MC if she were to quit - so its a double edged sword. Yes, she still has to work with OM, but I've no indication that this is still going on - quite the contrary, she knows if there was any inkling of the A reigniting and me finding out, the consequences would be devastating.
Part i dont get, she says she has checked out so why are we still together? Why hasn't she pushed for separation? It cant be cake eating, we both earn the same and enough to live comfortably individually. I know she hasnt told anyone else, i feel she is waiting for me to give up just so she can say its a mutual decision to go our separate ways.
Its because she's conflicted. She doesn't know what to do right now. You can't guide or direct her either. All you can do is put your focus on yourself and work on YOU. That's the only thing you have control over. Show her how awesome Natus can be. Dont point it out to her. Just be awesome and she'll notice.
Her employment situation makes this very difficult. VERY difficult. Typically, you have to go strictly NC in order to break these things. You will have to watch her like a hawk and don't trust her. She will lie, lie, lie. If she is truly remorseful, I would think that she would find a way to avoid having contact with him (leaving her job or at least moving to a different department if that is even possible.)
I dont want to snoop anymore, its just feeding my insecurities. I have found nothing overly suspicious on her phone but some how i still end up feeding my imagination.
Im just going to have to focus on my Detach, 180s and GAL. Im taking off my ring today, it has her name engraved on the underside. I wont be putting it back on until she is my wife again.
There is one little tit-bit i found amusing last night. She got peeved off when i mention a women who is also a colleague of hers but in a different branch / department.
This women was a PT client of mine for awhile until BD. I went NC since i was spending more time at home after and cutting back my hours at the gym.
W has previously said that she has no jealousy and even joked i should date her. Yet for all purposes i should not dare ever bring up her name or mention details of their office that only she could have told me. Just musing here, doesnt sound like the behavior of someone who has checked out or is it me.
Backstory: Apart from working in a telecoms company i am also a gym owner. I have many PTs with women and Men. Wife has never had an issue with this and in the past occasionally took PT with me and watches me at the gym when she use to spend a lot of time at the gym too.
She has worked a decade in that company to get to where she is at. Highly respected, year on year top performer, pretty much sought after by upper management for projects. Her job is literally her second home. Part of her identity even.
That is something i could not ask her to change when she was still in love with me. Far fetched now that she doesnt.
Your choice, and hers, to put the job above the M.
Your choice, and hers, to put the job above the M.
As of right now she has no interest to save the M.
I have been NC today, although we share the same bed. Im alittle peeved at something she said the day before about she can see us as friends.
That comment has stuck with me all day, I feel like confronting her and telling her im her husband not her friend (i dont know why i didnt on the spot). I feel so insulted that i want to ask her to leave the house. Is that too much? is it better we stay in the same house / bed? She has not asked me to leave or indicated it at all.
You would be asking her to leave to get a reaction out of her and that is wrong. Do not do stuff to get a reaction. I think you [censored] up by calling his wife. Clearly it has not worked for you and you might have just created a It's us against the world connection between OM and your W.
And as far as you telling your W you will not be her friend if you D, that is actually a great idea, just wait until she brings up the topic again. Do not initiate any relationship talks. As far as your W is concerned she is not your W any more.
Also no point in going all super husband mode right now. No amount of caring for her now will change her mind. The only way she might flip (and it is a long shot)is if she falls in love again. Face it, your marriage is DEAD. That does not mean that there cannot be a new relationship with her, but currently, this one is dead as a dodo.
Find, read and reread Sandi's rules, they will help you and clarify a lot...
Thanks Vapo. I guess i was motivated by trying get a reaction.
Interesting that it feels easier now to detach after she made the comment about being friends. I actually feel like the M is dead, and that she is not my W. Maybe im just riding the wave of anger. Im starting to wonder if i even want her now.
I havent initiated any talk, text, whatsoever past few days.
I feel like going a step further by going out, possible around other women. Not looking to hook up or anything, just i guess want to have a life. Just realized i thought i was already in GAL but in reality its still just work (i.e i mingle with people at my gym). I dont actually go out out.
I wonder how do i bring it up? going out i mean. Do i not say anything and just do it but that would make me an a$$hole. I guess i can just say im going out with friends. Sorry if this sounds weird but for years i have always been at work, my gym or home. I dont actually go out and if i did previously it was usually for interviews and meetings etc. so this is actually new for me.
Natus,
You didn't get Vapo's advice. Remember, don't do things just to get a reaction out of your WW. Don't bring up "going out" to her. Just do it, and do it for yourself, not to impress WW.
Hi CWOL, oh i mostly want to do it for me. Not having a life outside work, gym and home has gotten to me now that the one person i want to spend time with doesn't want to anymore.
Okay in the back of my mind i want a little reaction but to be honest i just want a break after 1 month of trying. Just to not think about her or my situation. Im gona try plan something with my boy this weekend but some adult time would be nice too.
I wonder how do i bring it up? going out i mean. Do i not say anything and just do it but that would make me an a$$hole. I guess i can just say im going out with friends. Sorry if this sounds weird but for years i have always been at work, my gym or home. I dont actually go out and if i did previously it was usually for interviews and meetings etc. so this is actually new for me.
No, you don't bring it up. You get ready, walk to the door and say, "I'm going out". If she starts asking where, who with, what time will you be back, etc.........your answer is, "Not sure, bye".
You were right Sandi. After the "intervention" they were at it again. I found out with proof tonight.
Two days after W reassured me nothing was going on apart from work that i was being paranoid. I found out today they went out to lunch just the two of them. The only reason i knew was i had a meeting near her office.
I went further than just No More Mr Nice Guy tonight. Enraged that she would play me i growled at her that i was not her friend that i was her husband. Then i brought her to the bedroom away from my son, bent her over my knee and spanked her til she started calling me her husband again. I then made her explain the secret password on her phones and text.
Its almost like watching a kid get caught doing something bad, she acknowledge why she hid her messages behind a password and that she felt that it was wrong,
She looked guilty and remorseful for the rest of the night. At dinner she handed over her passwords and offered to change jobs.
Unfortunately the OM had sent her texts which i now can see with her passwords. I went to find the OM.
Thankfully i had a friend with me that calmed me down. I was able to talk to the OM without trying to kill him. His wife was by his side while i lectured him. She was particularly happy when i told him to start respecting his own wife and two children and stop chasing mine.
I am a pretty intense and intimidating person, my friend was worried i was getting really edgy and looked like i was about to go to town but i held it together and told him this is the one only and absolutely last warning. If he continues to chase my wife i would have to file a report with religious authorities, he could lose his job.
I screenshot his text to my wife and sent it to their groupchat so now their whole office knows hes trying to get with my W. I dont know why i did it but atleast they will never be able to be alone together at the office now.
So yeah thats my night. Lets see how it goes next couple of days.
You *spanked* her?
And sent something to her work chat?
I don't quite know what to say.
I gotta agree with Rose.... Sorry to be blunt but your plan sounds as though you are physically and emotionally brow beating her to stay with you. Maybe I am not so caught up on your thread that I am misunderstanding?
Is that from the Islamic tradition in Brunei?
Bloody hell, Išve never seen this on these boards... A brand spankin' approach (pun intended...)
You need to develop a transparency plan, and if she doesn't agree to it, you will have her answer about her intentions of faithfulness.
She should not know when you decide to check her messages. That is your decision. She needs to be accountable.
You cannot expect her to have contact with the OM and simply trust her to do the right thing. She is addicted. The addiction has to be dealt with before she can be trusted again. A transparency plan will help her.
If she returns to her present place of employment, she and OM will be together, b/c the addiction is stronger than the punishment you gave her. Once she stops contact with the OM, she will crave it and even go through a sort of withdrawal. She will feel depressed, and maybe anxious, but it is part of the withdrawal process. It takes a period of time for her to go through this, and if she & OM ever make contact........she has to start at square one again. By that I mean the withdrawal process starts over.
So the first step to ending the A is no type of contact. Just seeing a picture of him, or reading something on FB about him can trigger her feelings for him.
Thank you Sandi. I will not doubt your wisdom again.When you described previously was true and i did not want to believe them then, I believed through everything my wife was still trustworthy and aboveboard. She will not have that benefit of a doubt now.
I had put together a rough tranparency plan together for both OM and my wife. They had agreed to it and i have OM's wifes buy in. I will need to work more on this.
I gotta agree with Rose.... Sorry to be blunt but your plan sounds as though you are physically and emotionally brow beating her to stay with you. Maybe I am not so caught up on your thread that I am misunderstanding?
Is that from the Islamic tradition in Brunei?
Where i am from respect for you family, parents, elders and marriage is deeply rooted. Its not just a Brunei thing, its an asian culture. Marriage is put up there on a holy pedestal, along with respect of elders and parents etc. We do not have a cavalier attitude to marriage and infidelity like more western countries.
She lied then carried on with a man in public ~ a gross disrespect to our marriage and to me as her husband. In fact a taboo in the eyes of the public. It couldnt go unpunished. Could i have handled it differently? sure. I suppose.
I did not spank her to make her stay.
Rose: The chat i screenshot was purely the OM messaging my wife. So it looks like he is the douche pursuing my wife. As he is the branch manager of her office i feel very happy today he is going to walk in to office and everyone knows what hes up to. So yea that was more for me and to bring his reputation down a notch. Childish sure. Satisfying Yes.
Infidelity is a punishable offence in my country and infact most countries in south east asia including non-muslim countries. Its a generally considered a taboo. Thats how highly marriage is regarded in these areas by the law, people and the culture.
Doesnt mean people arnt doing it left and right but its taken that seriously. Ofcourse times are also changing.
In anycase i come from a line of people to take vows very seriously. So does my wifes and her parents, she finally acknowledged the shame last night. I dont believe it was because of the spanking but it did help wake her up a little bit. Plus now she has to acknowledge that she cannot disrespect our marriage and get away scot free.
Will this fix our marriage, nope. There is much work to be done, i also feel i have to atone for raising my hand even if it was to her butt cheeks. I have never raised my hand in over 11 years of M and I dont like what i have become and i have told her so. She has apologised for this also, acknowledging her role in this.
Disclaimer: i do not recommend trying this with your wifes. My W and I come from deeply rooted asian cultures. Although if any of you do try it be most interesting read
update:
So the spanking and direct confrontation with OM seems to have killed the EA. That and taking away their primary means of secretly communication with each other.
At the office they are scrutinized and my sources have confirmed the OM is keeping his distance. While this is good im still pushing for the job change since my W offered.
We live in a small country so keeping tabs is easy plus her office are mostly married and i hate to say it same race as me and my wife whereas the OM is of different minority. So there is a racism factor that is involved that works to my favour in making sure OM keeps his distance in the office. Im loathe to say it but Yaay for racism?!?
W has communicated her intention to be faithful but I am following Sandhi's rule, Believe none what they say and 50% what the do. We both acknowledge however this does not fix our marriage.
So now im alittle confused on what my next step is, i would DB but i am also ensuring the EA is dead, dead, dead. Suffocated, beaten and left to rot dead. Heavy handed yes but hey its gotten through to my W.
Side musings:
Im trying to imagine if i could have handled it differently, im referring to the spanking. I can honestly imagine i cannot. Maybe its my upbringing, even today spanking kids are allowed in my society ~ its not common anymore but it is not frowned upon either.
I want to ask my father about this but to my knowledge he has never raised his hand to my mother yet my mother would never disrespect my dad that way either. Were it vice versa i know my mum has said she would cut off his balls if he tried cheating sooo maybe the are just a pair in this.
I know if i bring it up to W parents they would side with me. Its would probably break W's mums heart to know her daughter has been acting this way.
At the core of it i feel guilty for what i did but at the same time i cannot imagine doing it any other way. I don't believe in soft touch / approach for such a gross offense.
Can someone help me out, What are the signs of W temp checking? or the like.
Im a little confused at my wifes behaviour, light cheery and jovial (with me) during the day then ice queen at night. I know i shouldnt be reading into it much and focus on my DB but it just catches me off guard from time to time.
I do the DB thing but i realise now when i look at her sometimes i might be coming off as way to pursuey. I have to work on my poker face which coincedentally pre-DB i was very good at but now its like someone took away all my best / cool qualities and left me with the un-cool attributes.
I have been seriously thinking about turning to god. My wife and i have never been religious though we come from religious backgrounds / families. Its funny now im willing to call on any higher power to help me save my marriage.
Natus,
Temp checking is her taking action to see if it pushes any buttons to get you to react negatively so she has more excuses to spew all over you and justify why the M will not work.
Hope some of the vets can explain/define more appropriately.
Okay thanks JimKao.
I guess i wonder if im being played, the nice happy wife who initiates texts and conversation etc then suddenly later on in the day complete opposite.
First principles: believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.
You can't be played if you detach and live YOUR life without keying on what she says/does.
How do you detach? i been trying and the only thing i can think of is give up on her. Give up the marriage.
Is there a way to really detach while still working to save M?
Detaching is not about giving up on her. It is focusing on you and making yourself better and more attractive. Go back and read the threads on detaching. Make improvements for yourself and in turn if your W sees those improvements then you may have a chance of attracting her back.
Okay, maybe i got the meaning of detaching wrong. I thought detach meant to detach my emotions from her. So i'd be less needy, reactive and always thinking of her.
I have been doing things for myself and she has just recently mentioned that she has been looking at me. (She voluntered that information - i didnt ask).
I guess there are a few things i want to do, one of them is something during our M she would never let me do. get a tattoo on my forearm ~ Thoughts? Its something i want but its something she never wanted me to have. Am i just giving her more t spew if i went ahead and did it anyway?
I guess there are a few things i want to do, one of them is something during our M she would never let me do. get a tattoo on my forearm ~ Thoughts? Its something i want but its something she never wanted me to have. Am i just giving her more t spew if i went ahead and did it anyway?
IDK, this doesn't seem to fall into a DB category. Doesn't really seem like a 180 or GAL to me. Are you wanting to do this to get a reaction from W? Do you think this is something to make you happy? Will this be a + or - to you R? I'm not saying don't get the tattoo, but I don't see how it will benefit your sitch, unless it is something that you feel will be for you and irrelevant to your W, even then....
Hi Cutebot, i guess its really just a want that i've had for awhile. In all likely hood if i went ahead with it it would not sit well with W. With the way thing have been going i guess i was thinking along the lines of if she doesnt want to be my W then she doesnt get a say. Kinda just my way of saying F*** it.
I just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys because i can be quite impulsive. I suppose i can save it for when its really over.
Ok, i need to make pledge somewhere and here should be good. I have not been able to go a week without ending up in R talk or reacting. (Although shes has given me plenty to react about these last few weeks).
As of today, no R talks, no reacting, just detach,, DB and do me and my son.
Okay, maybe i got the meaning of detaching wrong. I thought detach meant to detach my emotions from her. So i'd be less needy, reactive and always thinking of her.
I have been doing things for myself and she has just recently mentioned that she has been looking at me. (She voluntered that information - i didnt ask).
I guess there are a few things i want to do, one of them is something during our M she would never let me do. get a tattoo on my forearm ~ Thoughts? Its something i want but its something she never wanted me to have. Am i just giving her more t spew if i went ahead and did it anyway?
I think detaching does mean being less needy and reactive. It means taking ownership of how you handle your feelings. It means not obsessing about things you can't control (like your wife).
It doesn't mean you don't still love your wife or care about her.
It means making yourself an emotionally whole and healthy person who chooses to be in a relationship with someone else, instead of a person who needs a relationship to be happy.
My suggestion is to stop dwelling on the spanking.
1
Im a little confused at my wifes behaviour, light cheery and jovial (with me) during the day then ice queen at night. I know i shouldnt be reading into it much and focus on my DB but it just catches me off guard from time to time
.
I suspect she is trying to get back within your good graces, so that you will believe the EA is over and you will let down your guard.
The coldness at night is usually a woman's way of discouraging the H of expecting any sexual affection.
Nat,
Think of two people tied to each other with 6 feet of actual cord or rope. Where one goes, the other has to follow or struggle. If the rope is cut, each person is free to go where he or she pleases.
The dynamic in these situations is similar, just in an emotional/mental sense.
Detaching means releasing your attachment to your spouse (aka, dropping the rope) and making decisions based on what's best for you in living YOUR life. If you're attached, then whatever she does that you don't like, or doesn't do that you want her to do with you/for, will bring you down and you'll obsess, mope, dwell on your sadness and fear and negative emotions.
So detachment means being pro-active for yourself and accepting the reality that the old marriage is over, and that the more you pursue or pressure the WAS, the more you obsess over what she says and does, and the more you "treasure hunt" by reading into or interpreting what she says and does in a way to feed your expectations that she will re-commit to the marriage, the more miserable, unproductive, and weak you get as an individual.
The best way through this is become more strong and independent because that will benefit you regardless of the outcome with your spouse.
So detachment means honoring her request to move on, accepting the consequences of that decision and how it affects you as an individual, and making your own GAL plans for your social and recreational activities and doing them on your own. It means focusing on growing and getting stronger as an individual.
It doesn't mean not being polite or pleasant in necessary interactions. But it does mean limiting those interactions to only those that are necessary, and only engaging with her further if she requests it, and doing so in a way that you manage your expectations.
Temp checking is her taking action to see if it pushes any buttons to get you to react negatively so she has more excuses to spew all over you and justify why the M will not work.
To me, you are explaining her pushing buttons, which is not the same as temperature checking his emotional attachment. Usually, the H thinks she is "reaching out" or "warming up" or being very "nice" It is her way of testing him, but
not by getting him to react negatively. If he misreads any of the above, or her tears or her sexual temptation, or a number of other tricks being some sign that she's coming around.......he's been temperature. He flunks by showing her how emotionally attached he continues to be to her. Once she sees she still holds him in the palm of her hand..........she is through with him, until or unless she wants assurance, again.
Make sense?
Thanks Sandhi, yes that is much more clearer.
Damn though to think they are doing this level of manipulation. I doubted you once thinking now way my W is capable of that and i almost completely quit this forum. After seeing the truth with my own eyes however....i now heed your words despite how much i want to believe its not true.
accepting the reality that the old marriage is over
This, i think this will need to be my new mantra now when i think of my R or W.
I was looking for a way to mentally drop the rope, its hard and contradictory because long run we are also trying to save the M or to put it correctly rebuild our relationship into a new M.
Hi Cutebot, i guess its really just a want that i've had for awhile. In all likely hood if i went ahead with it it would not sit well with W. With the way thing have been going i guess i was thinking along the lines of if she doesnt want to be my W then she doesnt get a say. Kinda just my way of saying F*** it.
I just wanted to get some thoughts from you guys because i can be quite impulsive. I suppose i can save it for when its really over.
Hi Natus,
I am glad that you were able to be honest with yourself. If you are doing something to get a reaction from your W, it isn't something you need to do. Believe me that is a hard thing to put into action, but it is the right thing.
Nat,
Think of two people tied to each other with 6 feet of actual cord or rope. Where one goes, the other has to follow or struggle. If the rope is cut, each person is free to go where he or she pleases.
The dynamic in these situations is similar, just in an emotional/mental sense.
Detaching means releasing your attachment to your spouse (aka, dropping the rope) and making decisions based on what's best for you in living YOUR life. If you're attached, then whatever she does that you don't like, or doesn't do that you want her to do with you/for, will bring you down and you'll obsess, mope, dwell on your sadness and fear and negative emotions.
So detachment means being pro-active for yourself and accepting the reality that the old marriage is over, and that the more you pursue or pressure the WAS, the more you obsess over what she says and does, and the more you "treasure hunt" by reading into or interpreting what she says and does in a way to feed your expectations that she will re-commit to the marriage, the more miserable, unproductive, and weak you get as an individual.
The best way through this is become more strong and independent because that will benefit you regardless of the outcome with your spouse.
So detachment means honoring her request to move on, accepting the consequences of that decision and how it affects you as an individual, and making your own GAL plans for your social and recreational activities and doing them on your own. It means focusing on growing and getting stronger as an individual.
It doesn't mean not being polite or pleasant in necessary interactions. But it does mean limiting those interactions to only those that are necessary, and only engaging with her further if she requests it, and doing so in a way that you manage your expectations.
tl2,
This is beautiful. Words of wisdom.
its been a quiet week i guess but here seems like a good place to journal.
Shes texts me when she gets to work, sending me pics to show other staff are around. Does the same when she has to stay a little longer, shes trying to be transparent and has said that she is sorry for breaking my trust.
It reminded me last week when we had an R talk she said she swayed but shes only human. I assume she is looking for forgiveness.
She surprised me yesterday by hitting the job market hard, it is of course what i wanted but i dont know if shes doing it because shes remorseful or because thats what i want. Does it matter why? i suppose not really.
Im still struggling to drop the rope. I do well until its time for bed, in the middle of the night my feet seem have a mind of their own trying to seek hers under the covers. She doesnt pull away immediately like previously though.
But i still do husband stuff, is this a no no? i make breakfast, dinner etc she tends to wash the dishes though so its not like its one sided. This morning was a bit of a rush so i made coffee to go for both of us.
Yesterday i fixed our MBR toilet sink finally.
on a final if not silly note: do any of you guys do silly things like pump out a few push ups before getting out of the shower or whatever to look good in front of WAS?
Reading other peoples threads i realize how lucky i am. My WW doesnt come home late, she never goes out and even if she does shes home early. Heck even when she use to go with OM (before i knew or even they knew they would A) to have drinks with work mates she was home before 9pm.
I dont know how others cope with it.
I realize i havnt dropped the rope yet. Im still trying, i just dont know how i can make that mental leap, moving forward without moving on.
What i do know is i dont want to feel this way, hurt and disapointed she wont reach for me to hold my hands or even give me a peck on the cheek. I just realised aswell i dont remember a time in the last 6 months she has complimented me.
You're lucky that you're getting a strong "no" from her, for what its worth (nothing). I think that my WW being out late helps me to detach more, regardless of the hurt. It's like we separate for those many hours.
Mine is in and out of our M everyday - Monday she was going to try, Tues out, wed try, thurs out, fri we're married forever. She shows so much attraction to me its not funny, I have to fight her off. She's always seeked attention and been needy though, and with OM not in city i'm the only one she's got - for now.
yea i dont know if that makes me feel better DDJ although i wouldnt want to swap for your shoes. I dont think i can handle the yo-yoing.