Hi, I am in coaching right now. I need some quick advice. My wife is the walk away spouse, and I am trying the 180. However, my wife wants me to come over and do taxes. I have plans tonight and suggested with do them two nights from now. She said she wants to do them herself tonight, and for me to drop off the paperwork. I don't really have the time to do that though. she just sprung this on me today. I don't want to create any conflict. What should I do?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
CRW your story above is very confusing so I'm not sure what you're looking for. If I understand it correctly, your wife wants to do taxes tonight and asked you to bring over paperwork, and you have plans and don't have time to bring it over -- is that correct?
Here is what I would do: I would tell her that you didn't plan on having everything prepared tonight and you have plans to go out, so you don't have time to pull everything together and bring it over, but you will be able to bring it to her by [pick a date].
If she doesn't like that and let's you know it, validate her feelings (I understand this is frustrating for you because you want to get it done tonight etc. etc.) and then perhaps propose a compromise -- i.e. "I will pull the paperwork together and leave it on the front table of my house, the front door key will be under the mat. Feel free to come by and get it while I'm out, just please lock up and return the key when you leave, or you can wait and I will bring it over by [pick a date]"
Do not cancel your plans.
That's what I would do.
Acc
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am trying to make myself sparse, but then she immediately complains that I am not communicating about the kids enough, so it is kind of a tough line I am walking right now.
A little more background on my situation. I had changed into a very negative person the last year of our marriage. I would say I stayed the way until about 6 weeks ago. I honestly feel like I had a spiritual awakening, and am so much happier than I was. So I would say because of that, I have pulled a legitimate and sincere 180. things are really far gone, as in we are separated and have already filed. However, since my 180, she has shown interest again in what I am up to and some of the lightheartedness and humor has returned. then last weekend she and I were texting about the kids, and for some reason in the middle of the night I texted her and said, 'want to talk'. She said 'not right now, what's up'. I just said not to worry about it and told her goodnight. She called me first thing the next morning asking what I wanted to talk about though, and seemed disappointed when I said 'just more about the kids'. Now, I really am not sure what I wanted to talk to her about, I just wanted to talk to her I guess.
Long story short, things are very far along towards getting divorced, but is it too far gone? I hope not, because I truly love her. My 180, while strengthening me 10 fold, also made me realize that I do still love her. It also made me understand what that really means, when I don't think I got it before.
I'd love to hear thoughts from others.
thanks
Craig
Bump, any thoughts for me?
My thoughts are that you still need to detach.
Let her Pursue you, not the other way around.
I agree. I just struggle with that and then also being an attentive and involved dad.
I agree. I just struggle with that and then also being an at tentive and involved dad.
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Yes be a good dad.
Her circus, her monkeys.
You can't. Sorry. And leave it at that.
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
Last night we did a little birthday get together for our 14 year old. Had supper, cleaned up together, I helped put the littles in their pj's. I asked her is she needed anymore help, then I told her was going to take off. It was very business like, which i took as discouraging.
I guess what I really want to know is, is it too late after filing and separating to save a marriage?
Hello CRW,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
The short answer is no. It is definitely not too late to save a marriage after filing and separating. The birthday get together sounds nice. Why is business like bad? Don't be discouraged, focus on the good parts of the evening by remembering what worked.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 when you would like to schedule another session with your DB Coach.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Well, one night after a joint birthday party and sitting around the table again as a family, she is hitting me up about signing divorce papers. This roller coaster is testing my strength for sure.
And now just found out she is friends on Facebook with the guy I think she was cheating on me with.
Well, is it time for me to pull the plug? She is hitting me up about signing papers. I responded to her with , Right now I am open to all possibilities for the future of our family. I want to give the kids the best possible life they can have'. NO response to that.
CRW. Sorry to read about your sitch. Funny how the WW pushes for the D until you get to the point you want it as bad as they do. Once they realize that you truly want it to, they then pull back from that thought? Why cause they realize their backup plan is no longer there. I went through that and count myself grateful for two things 1. I did not waste too much time in a bad M and 2. I did not spend too much time drudging through limbo. What I have to thank for that is GALing. I started doing many things I have not done in years and years. It started with the idea of I will show WW how good I can be and then started doing it for myself. Once that happened I started enjoying it and my attitude changed. At the same time my attitude changed, opportunities opened. Now I am more happy than even when my WW and I started dating. Obviously that pulled me out of my funk.
Obviously this did not happen over night. There were many sleepless nights, being sick to my stomach, anxiety I have never felt and tears. But time heals wounds. While that is easy to say, I know for you there is confusion and hopelessness. Work through the books and follow the advice of the wise people on this board and maybe you will get back with WW, maybe you will not. But I can promise you this, whatever happens, if you are strong you will find happiness in the future and it will be good. The wounds will heal and you will be a better you than before, either with your WW or with someone more deserving.
I wish you luck my friend.
Thanks for that.
I guess I am not sure if this behavior is because she is having second thoughts about the divorce, or that she just wants out.
I had the kids last night, she was texting me constantly asking what was going on. Then this morning she actually called me about the kids, then asked me how I was doing. I'm trying not to get my hope up, but I feel like she was testing me earlier in the week to see where I am at.
Part of me feels like she is trying to open the door for me to initiate a conversation about trying again, but she is too stubborn just to say it.
Through our whole marriage I've always been the one to smooth things over, maybe I shouldn't expect that now?
OK I really need some guidance here. Conversation we just had:
WW: I want things to stay the same. I think the kids are doing great and adjusting well. I don't want to fight about visitation or custody or anything anymore. The kids are happy and i haven't denied you seeing them more than what is ordered if you request it. I don't want to fight with you again or be upset with you, it isn't fair to the kids. Us getting along is the most important aspect of our relationship.
Me: so two months ago when i 'woke up', i was able to clear things out of my head. I let go of all the negativity and the conflict inside me. what was left was someone fulfilled and happy. however, what was still there were my feelings for you. i'm only connected to the things I am passionate about in my life, and you are still one of those things, moreso than I ever was before. This has been the biggest reason for my lack of clarity regarding us getting a divorce. If it was meant to be, how could my spirit waking up lead to me being more passionate for you than I was before? I've been meditating on it and praying on it frequently to understand. I agree with you, I do not want any further conflict, I want to do what's best for us and our family. I wake up each day thinking more and more that that thing is a family whole and strong and together once again.
WW: I'm not sure what this means?
How does she not know what I meant? Was it not clear that I want to put our family back together? How do I respond? I am so nervous right now......
CRW,
Maybe you should ask W what her interpretation is of your response. She may be temp checking also to see how you respond.
I guess I am confused because I feel like my intentions were pretty clear? Maybe not?
My heart is in my throat right now. I don't want to leave her hanging, but I feel like I need to clear my mind before I respond?
She texted me this last night:
Craig i need to talk to you about your recent texts.....while I'm glad you have had an awakening and you have found a new way to live your life. Treating people kindly and respecting their feelings should be the way everyone treats one another, but don't tell me this is the way you are going to be going forward, if it is only with the hopes and intentions of us getting back together. There has been to much damage and many hurtful words on your part to ever hope for anything other then just being there for the kids. If you are making a change, do it only because it makes you a better person not because there is any hope of reconnecting love between us, because I'm sorry, but that bridge has been burnt.
And then this this morning:
Kids are great....again it is great that you have had your awakening, but it doesn't change the fact that we are getting divorced and i am moving on with my life, do you understand?
Is there any hope after that? This was my response:
I understand where things are. Doesn't change the fact that I am going to treat you with respect and with dignity. I appreciate your honesty and directness.
Now she won't even respond to my text's about the kids. Is she testing me and confused that I am not getting angry like I would in the past?
Quick critique from a newbie (take it for what it's worth):
She wants actions, not words (texting doesn't count as an action). She wants to see the new man, she doesn't want to hear the man tell her about the new man.
Yes, you surely have a chance with her, but you've got to do a lot better than telling her about it via texting.
Thanks doodler. That is great advice. I needed that.
Funny thing, when my daughter was a baby we called her 'the doodler'. Ironic!
CRW,
It sounds to me like you married a smart woman, don't let her go; do the work. Good luck to you!
she is very smart. Admittedly, we're here because of me....
CRW, I think you are handling yourself very well! This could be a loooong road. It cannot be evaluated day by day. Although I have no doubt she second guesses her choices, she is NOT going to let you see that. Less R talks so she doesn't need to keep reminding you, or herself, that she is done.
I don't have much advise, other than keep being a great man & dad! Don't do this to win her back, but do this for you and for your kids. If she is knee deep in an A, she has checked out and will cake eat and keep you as a friend. You do what works for you. Over time, she will see the man you are, and if she doesn't want that, it is her loss.
If possible, put off the D if it's not what you want right now. Not as a way to play games or frustrate her, but this is a huge decison that deserves a lot of time and thought.
I definitely do not want a divorce. I appreciate the words of encouragement guys, it really helps.
So after sending me that last text this morning, she isn't even sending me pictures of the kids like normal. Seems like she is trying to see if I am going to crack?
CRW, mind reading never works. I know you want to--we all do--but it never works.
She may be seeing if your are going to crack. She may be temp checking. Or, she may just be busy, not gotten around to it yet, or simply having a bad day. Or, maybe her smartphone fell in the toilet and erased all her photos and she has been in line at the phone store all day because they are busy in there ...
You never know. But even if you are right, don't let that change how you handle you and your life. Keep on keeping on!
So now she seems downright angry. this is so confusing:
Me: no worries. travel safe! send me a pic of the littles if you have a chance
Me: Babies down?
W: What time is it?
Me: 8:26
W: You just answered your own question.
Me: Ha, ok, fair enough. Give them kisses for me in the morning. Miss them a ton
Me: Hope you are having a good night
W: There is no reason you should be texting me at 830 asking if they are asleep. Their bedtime is 8, no exceptions.
W: And stop texting me to have a good day and a good night.
Me: Ok, I apologize.
Me: Just missing the kids
W: If you miss them, then text prior to 7pm. Not hard to figure out.
Me: Ok, fair enough. Thank you for the direction
She is downright mad at me. I'm not sure why?
CRW, you're smothering her and using the kids as an excuse to contact her.
My WW was out with my son since yesterday by a family member. I called her earlier today, immediately stating "can I please speak to my son". No chatting to her; she asked what i did yesterday; i said "nothing".
She said she wants space, give her what she wants and worry about yourself and your life.
CRW,
I'm really seeing zero DRing in that text exchange. At the most you should only be cordial - I'm just not seeing the detachment. If she has a comment/complaint validate. Any more than that shouldn't receive much of an answer. And you certainly shouldn't be asking or telling your feelings.
I know it's hard, but you've got to give her the space and then some - it's no wonder she's 'mad'. You're doing exactly what you should do if you want her to resent you, disrespect you and rebel even more than she already is.
She's got to figure out what life is without you, and that includes your messages. Keep it to specifics. Time, place, now, later - buh-bye.
Yeah, I get that. I was pretty well going dark with her, but she immediately started complaining to me that I wasn't communicating with her enough about the kids. I feel like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.
She is checked out of this R right now. She is not interested. You are in a very different head space than her.
When you pursue her in anyway, that pushes her away. When you are nice to her, she thinks you are spineless, and that pushes her away. When you apologize, that annoys her. She doesn't want anything from you right now but space and time. She is going to lose respect for you if she knows she cane be cold/distant and you are right there being nice and apologizing.
Get too busy to worry about her or how she is doing! Take all focus off of her. Only contact her if it is something that needs addressing immediately, otherwise let her come to you with it. When you do communicate with her, be polite, but stick to the point, then exit the conversation ASAP.
Every morning when you wake up, reread Sandi's rules. Your conversation is not DB at all.
You can do this. It is going to take a LONG TIME though. You cannot measure results day by day or even week by week.
-Blu
[censored] because I was doing this and it was working. I let her suck me back in with the kids angle. I've got to be stronger next time.
CRW I am assuming your conversations you had via text were filled with validation. Here is what I have learned with my experiences with my WW. Take this with a grain of salt cause I may be the worst DBer in the history of DBing. You are being kind and validating, doing great with 180s. That confuses your WW and she doesn't like it. What she wants is reactions, what she wants is to pull you into a fight so she can tell herself, "see this is why what I did is not so bad and this why I need to get rid of him." She wants you to fight with her to provide reason what she is doing is the right thing. Otherwise, god forbid, she may feel some guilt. Read through my thread, as soon as I started validating, she turned script and started attacking me. She would become demeaning and when I set boundaries and stuck with them, it drove her nuts! She would attack and attack. sometimes I would get pulled in, but I often did well with staying out of it and then venting here. Stick with your course as long as you are able! Whether you get her back or not you will be a better person and it will better your future relationships.
thanks guys, I appreciate it.
I still struggle some with wanting to know how the kids are while not seeming that I am trying to contact her all the time.
I think she is frustrated that she hasn't been able to draw me into a fight, but there is probably some overbearing on my part as well via asking about the kids.
The one thing I have learned is that is seems like this is a tightrope I am constantly walking.
So I didn't text her all day yesterday. In the early evening she texts me something about child support that she had to know the answer to. And then sends me a bunch of pictures of the kids.
I just answered he question shortly, and then said thanks for the pics. Nothing other than that.
I am guessing as the pattern goes, she'll find some reason to text me late today or tomorrow. Any recommendations if/when she does?
W You still owe 175$ for child support this month. Is that taken out of your check or do you send it in?
Me It comes out of my check. I'm actually about 600 ahead.
W When did it start coming out?
Image Attachment
Image Attachment
Tablet time before bed....
Image Attachment
Image Attachment
Me:Last check in march
Thanks for the pictures.
24 hours, no contact. This is hard. Miss my kids terribly.
Set a schedule with your W to speak to your kids. You should still be NC with her as much as possible.
24 hours, no contact. This is hard. Miss my kids terribly.
Yes, it is hard! I am sorry you miss your kids. I will say that that part gets easier. The one benefit of separation and co-parenting is that you can allow yourself to miss your kids a little bit. So when you are with them, you can make sure you are more present and focusing on quality time. Less screen time and more enjoying each other. That is priceless.
I think you are getting what it means to DB! You are not initiating contact, however you are not intentionally ignoring her. Continue to respond and be respectful, however keep up the detachment. Polite, courteous, but keep a healthy boundary. If she doesn't want an R with you, then all she gets is simple, matter of fact, communication about kids and logistics. That's it.
I agree with the other posters. This may confuse her and upset her and even cause her to act out. She may be temp checking or testing to see if you are still invested; she doesn't get to do know. Too bad for her! She made this bed, and so naturally she gets to lie in it and eventually wonder if you have moved on. Waywards need to learn that their plan Bs will not sit around and wait for them.
So keep that chin up, detach, and focus on being the best YOU!
You got this!
-Blu
Thanks guys, I appreciate the words of encouragement and direction. Please keep them coming, you all have no idea how much they help.
So last contact was Sunday night until this morning. Our S14 got in trouble at school so she texted me about it. I asked her what her thoughts were and she immediately called. She tried my personal phone which I didn't answer, then my work phone which I answered, but told her I would need to call her back in a bit.
I haven't called her back yet. I'm not sure why she even called, this isn't the first time S14 has been in trouble, and we've never needed a phone call about it before.
Any thoughts on how long I should make her wait or course of action?
Maybe call back during your lunch time and keep the conversation only concerning S14. If she veers off topic "Oh I need to go my lunch is almost over." or something. Not cold or mean just gotta get to something else.
Thanks Tim, do you think I handled appropriately?
BTW, I feel pretty cool using all the abbreviations now!
Yeah I think what you are doing is good. I would always just text about the kids and keep it at that. And that if the topic was important or about info I have not given in the past. for example "do we have tournament this weekend." reply, "see my email of April 3rd."
However, I must admit my sitch is very different now. I have absolutely no intention of ever taking her back. So I am not DBing for her anymore (I am doing it everywhere else to make myself a better person and have better relationships in the future).
I hope this helps out. Best of luck to you buddy.
Yeah, when everything 'went down' I had so much anger clouding my judgement that I just plowed ahead. Once I was able to clear my mind I realized that I didn't want the D.
It does help, that is exactly what I told her.
CRW, here is one thing you might want to try if you are not sure how to respond or how to act. And take it with a grain of salt because I am coming up with it on the fly. :-) Try doing some mental exercises before responding to her and ask yourself some of these questions:
1. What would it feel like if we had been D for several years and had an amicable R (not a friendship, but amicable)?
2. What should it look/sound like when a separated couple communicates about kids and logistics?
3. What real difference does it make if I respond now or later? What is in the best interest of the kids?
4. If I am waiting, is it to prove a point to her or because I need to wait for an important reason?
5. Does the way in which I respond have a direct affect on my R with W? Does it really make a difference overall to our R?
The reason I bring all this up, is because I think LBS spend a lot of wasted emotional energy trying to mind read, trying to act a certain way, and thinking they can influence the wayward by altering these little details. I am not sure all of that matters. Just focus on you, your kids, and what feels right independent of how you think she will perceive you. That is what confident, strong men do. They don't fret over the details. ... Plus, can you ever really know what she is thinking?
-Blu
I was actually in the middle of something at work, which I probably could have put down for a while, but didn't really want to.
I feel like I need to remind her that while I want her back, right now, she isn't going to be able to demand my attention whenever she wants it.
Phone call in 10 minutes. Why am I nervous?
Phone call in 10 minutes. Why am I nervous?
Stop it. Calm, cool, listen, validate, stick to the point, then exit the conversation. She is in control of herself, and you of you. That is it. Pretend you have been divorced for years and she doesn't affect you. You GOT THIS!
Well, that was quite the conversation. S14 is no longer a virgin apparently. Does drama ever stop?
She did start top talk about her schedule and stuff for the evening, at which point I just said that I had to run.
Well, that was quite the conversation. S14 is no longer a virgin apparently. Does drama ever stop?
She did start top talk about her schedule and stuff for the evening, at which point I just said that I had to run.
Good job. Go about your day and pay her no mind ...
To the subject of teens losing their virginity? Well, I have been there brother, and I can tell you, that is a stressful journey in and of itself! Yikes. I hope he has some support and someone to talk to. I think you and W HAVE to get on the same page for this tho--you don't want him to get lost in the shuffle and start making poor choices. I know it's hard, but this is much more important than DB right now.
When I was separated from H, my teen took a scary downward spiral, and it was heartbreaking! It was especially challenging to not be able to help/support her together. I think our family still has some trauma from that time and what happened to her.
Remember, the kids--and even teens and adult kids--are the only real victims in these sitches.Best of luck with this.
-Blu
Further update, she called me last night, I missed the call and chose to text her back. She seemed irritated by this, but whatever. My brother was over with his gf so I didn't really have time to talk anyway.
I called her back this morning and we chatted about the kids, and S14, now S15. I told her what he told me, basically he was frustrated with the whole situation. She was understanding and thankful for the conversation. I exited it very quickly once we were done talking about the kids.
I've noticed a correlation.
I start missing her and getting weak much more easily on days I don't get to workout. It's amazing how much that helps!
So, same pattern has now happened. I detach, and she tries to pick a fight this morning saying that I am not communicating enough with her about the kids. I'm going to be stronger this time though. She sent me a nasty text. This time I called her, and told her that I felt like she sent the text in anger, and that instead of that we need to work through things in an adult manner, especially when it comes to the kids. She agreed, and I exited the conversation.
Well just what does she want you to communicate? What is it that she feels she isn't being told about the kids? Or......is it more about her need to talk? I'm guessing it is her.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should not communicate. I just feel the real issue here is about her controlling. She is using the kids as her hook.
She may be more irritated at you b/c of S15 losing his virginity. When she thinks you aren't available for her to vent, then she gets angry.
Nothing specific, for example, today she said I didn't talk to her enough about what I have for clothes vs what she has for clothes for them. Most of the time it seems like stuff that is pretty trivial I guess.
It feels like we both are maybe using the kids as our 'hook' to keep in touch with the other. I've got to keep working on not doing that.
That actually doesn't sound at all trivial to me. The management of kids' clothes and shoes is one of the unpleasant tasks of parenthood. The thought of having to manage it across multiple houses makes me shudder--and my youngest is 10!
And it's not like my kids are fashion plates. Nowhere close to it.
To clarify, I mean keep not using the kids as a hook. I have been very successful at doing that this week.
Funny thing, remember how last week she was going off on me texting her after 8:30 about the kids? Tonight she texted me 3 times after 8:30.
I really feel like this process is starting to work.
Excellent! I remember reading your whole text conversation with her a few days ago and feeling really badly for you. I'm glad you're seeing some positive changes, CRW.
She called us first thing this morning to see how things were going. She's never done that before.
So I pushed things a little tonight, made a couple 'flirty' remarks to her, which seemed well received. I hope I am not setting myself up for failure, but I actually see some light at the end of this tunnel.
To clarify, I still am not initiating anything, I was just talking about in my responses.
It was more about wanting her to smile some when she talks or hears from me. And when I say flirty, I should say more like playful. But I'm not initiating anything, nut adding what she is doing, etc etc.
CRW, it still seems you are struggling with detachment, doing a lot of mind reading (which doesn't work), and not focusing on DB--YOUR needs & GAL. I am concerned you are setting yourself up for disappointment. This is a very long process and I don't want her to think she can string you along. She has left you and your family, she sends you nasty texts & uses you to vent, and so why are you flirting with her???
-Blue
Point taken Blu. I'll focus on pulling back now. In retrospect, this will be a good 180, because I am sure she would expect me to push things now.
She called again this morning as well, I had to suggest for her to talk to the kids, she seemed more interested in talking to me.
Also, as it relates to GAL:
-Been in the gym nearly everyday, I look as good as I have in ten years.
-Playing in 3 sand volleyball leagues
-Going out with friends more than I have since I was single
-Really focused on work and networking there
-Connection with my kids is stronger than it has ever been
Don't get me wrong, I am not, nor have I initiated a conversation with her via voice or text in a week. I've just made the interactions she's initiated a little less business like. Example, we had to stop over to her house to get something for S15. She made a joke that she would turn the camera on so I wouldn't steal something. I just replied and said, 'sweet, the threat of getting caught always makes it better'. Nothing more than that.
Definitely was able to be more focused on the kids this weekend, despite W's frequent contacts. My bond with them is getting much deeper and stronger than I realized it could be.
That is a very strongly positive development for you and your children. Keep up the good work, CRW.
Well, things just took a massive turn for the worst. Got this text from her:
Look, each time you drop the kids off, i feel like you are dragging things out and I think it's for your benefit. It is hurting them and me to see them like that. They were both happy to be home until you start repeating...ok daddy is leaving now, over and over. I feel like it makes you feel good to see them upset over you leaving. When i left your house Friday, Rowan was crying at the door. I didn't turn around, i didn't pick him up, i left. Because i knew that is what needed to be done. From here on out. You can hand them over at the door. No need to linger. It is upsetting that i need to continue to remind you this is about them not you or me. We have to come to a balance with the way things are. This is life now. My life, your life, their life. It is time to accept that and move on figuring out that balance. Got it?
I was at the house less than 5 minutes. Really feeling hopeless right now.
My advice and please take it for what it's worth, say your goodbyes in the car, watch them walk in the door, give them a quick wave and drive away. No need to walk them to the door, I could be wrong but most likely you're doing so to have interaction with the W. You don't need that right now. She is clearly telling you what she wants, give it to her see if after a while she starts to wonder why you don't come to the door with them anymore.
Hang in there CRW,
It is her way of justifying things so she can feel better. Keep being a great dad and keep your chin up.
Well, they are 1 and 3, so I can't really just let them walk up to the house.
I'm having a hard time not just giving up at this point to be honest.
CRW,
You won't give up, because your 1 and 3 year old children need their father. Do not worry about her text. You be the father you need to be, and she can blow all the smoke she wants.
I know how challenging this is, and I know that those children need you, so please acknowledge your feelings of hopelessness, but let them pass. Then put your focus on the needs of the little ones. Do what you need to to meet those needs. And then focus on making yourself the best father, man and future husband that only a fool would walk way from.
Be kind to yourself this evening and find something that will make you smile. It really does help chase the negative feelings away for a bit.
You are right, I won't give up, but man, that was a hard one. It seems like when I think things are starting to go better, she does something that just takes the wind out of my sails.
cRW, this hurts and I will not minimize that pain.
5 minutes is a long time for a drop-off, where wounds are fresh.
what if next time you drop them off, you have somewhere to go so that you can't linger...not because she will notice or any of that crap, but because YOU ACTUALLY HAVE SOMEWHERE TO GO and you are looking forward to it.
make it short and sweet. drop kids. kissed and daddy loves you, gotta run. if there is something to discuss...better be pressing otherwise a follow up note would suffice...no need to linger.
so your goal for today is figure out what and where and maybe with whom you are going ton do something next time the kids get dropped off...what do you say???
What was funny is, that was my goal going into it, drop the kids, and go. It is hard when D3 is literally clinging to me. I had to pry her hands off me to leave finally.
We did just talk on the phone, and agreed that maybe a 'picking up' strategy would work better than a 'dropping off' strategy. The kids seem to have separation anxiety from the parent who leaves.
I've learned a couple things. I suck at detachment. Good at GAL and 180.
Somehow the pattern repeated itself, even with me consciously knowing it was coming. I have to figure out a way to break out of it.
CRW,
At least you're good at GAL and 180. I suck at detachment, GAL, affirmations, boundaries and 180. I keep working on it, but old habits are hard to change.
So I am going to try going dark with her for the next couple days now. I really hate this part.
Thanks Doodler, somehow it helps to know everyone else has things to work on too!
CRW,
I am sorry. This is so hard. This was the hardest thing I have ever been through in my life; I had to interact with H often as well because we have kids too. I was watching everything important to me slip away and I felt powerless. It's a fear and pain like no other. I read here often, and while it made sense, I struggled to apply it to my everyday life.
I am reading all your posts. And I am going to hit you with some 2*4s, not because I am a jerk (well maybe a little bit), but because I care! I am also telling you what I needed to hear when H was gone for that year. I could GAL all day long, but I could not detach and thus was chronically anxious and depressed.
So here you go: what you are doing is not working. Not at all. It's not working because you are not getting results--she feels smothered by you, frustrated, and she wants more space/time. I think you are trying to look at this process and evaluate it week by week and at times day by day. I also think you are DB in hopes that she will notice. So right now she holds all the power in this R. It is incredibly unbalanced and damaging to your sense of self worth.
I think it's time to take a GIANT STEP back. Do whatever you need to detach. Continue to put your kids first (even if she has an opinion on that--too bad, her problem), continue to do your 180s and GAL, keep thinking about how you can live in the moment and feel good about where you are at . Even if it is in baby steps. But most importantly, you have got to stop trying to analyze her every move.
It is this focus on her that is smothering her and frustrating her. People's intuitions are very strong--she feels this from you. So take focus/control off of her and really, really take your life back here. Maybe over the next several months she will second guess herself and come back. Maybe in a year. Maybe never. But you have got to stop torturing yourself. And it won't work.
I know you deserve better. And your kids need you right now; the strong and confident you.
-Blu
CRW,
I agree with Blu! I am in the same funk as you. We need to stop thinking about the R. Assume it is over and move forward with the focus on you and your kids. Not an easy task but it can be accomplished!
Thanks Blu, I needed that.
Let me ask for some further advice. It feels like the pattern goes like this, I go black, get some decent detachment going, then she uses the kids to initiate conversation again, and in a couple days she hits me with a 2x4 of her own. I knew this one was coming, but it still happened.
How do I break out of this pattern?
You cannot break her side of the pattern, because you have no control over how she will react or what she will do. Read about codependency, because this is an example of that.
The good news is that you CAN control everything that you say and do. You also get to control how much you react to her 2*4s. If you are struggling with detachment, than think of these 3 scenarios and how you would react:
1. Conflict with neighbor over same ol BS day in and day out, so predicable, but never changes.
2. Conflict with your boss, who you like & respect, but tends to get pushy & emotional over small things.
3. Conflict with W and she is venting that you haven't done X, Y, and Z enough.
My guess is that each person and situation evokes a different feeling and response in you. You have no control over any of them and how they are approaching you. But, you have complete control over what you say, how much reaction they get from you, your tone of voice, how much energy you give them, etc, etc.
So don't react to W. Know in advanced how you would like to respond to her--think, imagine, feel--what that look likes. When she approaches you, remain calm and respond the way you have already planned. Can you do that?
In life we teach everyone we meet how we deserve to be treated.
-Blu
Blu.. You make it sound so easy... I too need to run the scenarios through my head.. But it's hard to think of everything these crazies can through at you.
Ralph,
That's true. My H did and said some ridiculous cr-p when he was in the fog. It's almost laughable now! And he easily got a rise out of me! But with practice and preparation, comes improvement! It is also a part of detachment, to take back the control of our own emotions. They don't deserve that power. These situations are so emotionally fueled on both ends, that we can't just run on automatic. Calm, consistent, firm boundaries, and then move along, that's the goal to strive for--like with that neighbor or boss that does not control your emotions and you know it is better to just keep the peace.
-Blu
Blu,
I think you are telling me to use the fact that I am aware of the pattern to my advantage by being ready for it rather than trying to stop something that I can't stop. That makes very good sense to me.
thanks
Craig
I feel like there is some control factors playing into effect here. She doesn't want to be with me, but she doesn't want to lose control of me either. Last night she called me asking about taxes. She started picking, and then brought up S15 biodad. At which point I felt my temper rising. I said to her, hey, I am going to let you go, we can discuss this more later. She became really upset and said I don't get to just get off the phone with her because I get mad. I thought to myself, interesting, actually I think being separated means exactly that!
Proud of myself, yesterday I just dropped off May Day baskets for the kids at the door without going in or using it as an excuse to see W. Sucked not seeing the kids, but in the past I would have used it as a reason to stop in and see her.
Proud of myself, yesterday I just dropped off May Day baskets for the kids at the door without going in or using it as an excuse to see W. Sucked not seeing the kids, but in the past I would have used it as a reason to stop in and see her.
Great! And glad that you identified that you were doing that. Baby steps. Keep at it!
-Blu
I just wish she would stop finding a different reason to text me each day. That makes detaching really hard.
CRW,
Maybe you could use text auto-reply. Just auto-reply a message when your wife sends a text; you could say something like, "CRW is doing important stuff right now, I'll get back to you in the next few days."
Am I supposed to start a new thread?