I received a message from my W last night. As it was my final night in the house, I think she felt sentimental about me leaving. I had been scarce with my communication all day but this upset me. Please read and give me your thoughts.
"Perhaps I shouldn't say this.
But I feel sad. Really sad that you are spending your last night in our home. Your last night, and your family is not even there.
I feel sad that we moved into that house with Erica as a baby. With hopes of having a happy family there, and feeling good about our futures. That house should have been everything we needed. Somewhere to call home. But for whatever reason it wasn't enough to keep up together.
Anyway, that chapter is closing, and the end of an era is always sad, and naturally we both feel a massive sense of loss.
But also a new chapter is new beginning. The one with a potential friendship, if we can find it in our hearts to always be kind to one another. The one that gives you the strength to be the best father those girls could ask for. For fulfilling their dreams of what a man is ... he should be a prince. And always a prince.
A new career, a challenge to work towards. Something to help you prove to yourself that you have a purpose, you are relevant and useful in this big world.
And for me, my heart will finally be free. I will not be harboring my doubts and worries about 'us' I will be living for me. And the children. Free and happy. Maybe you will like that person when you see her again.
So... sleep well in our home tonight, confident in the knowledge that the next chapter could be ten times better, with a different outlook and a bit of focus.
Night.... babe."
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2648620#Post2648620
Since this happened, I couldn't keep my distance from the kids...I asked to see them as I felt depressed at leaving my home. My W met me at our house and was happy to see me. She gave me a bug hug, but then started crying. She said that although the last two years have been difficult...being with me is all she knows. She invited me over for the evening and we played with the kids together.She now wants us all to go out for the day as a family and wants me involved with her and the girls. She still wants to proceed with divorce, but there seems to have been a shift in her thinking. I don't want to say the wrong things here but what can I take from this? Is she just scared of a future alone or is she doubting her decision?
It's been a strange week. I started my new high powered management job and have had little time to think about the M. I have been seeing the kids and my W regularly and I took my W to her hospital appointment and we have been going on day trips as a family.
My W tells me on one hand that when I find a better place to live, I won't be able to visit as often yet she then tells me that things are better when we see each other in small bursts like me being the sun going down and her the moon being allowed to breathe. She likes the way I am happier in my job and how I am with the kids. She says she doesn't want a 'romance' and just wants to be friends.
I don't get it. I feel like I am in limbo. She likes me around when it suits her. She needs me but pushes me away. She has cleared the house if all my stuff and put it in the attic. We are taking the kids to a farm today as a family.
If this was a normal relationship, there would be intimacy but that is what makes this all weird. Although we rarely had sex, I now miss it and want it in the relationship. I don't just want to be a convenient friend who doesn't want to let down his family.
Is this a normal grown up co parenting relationship?
This is so hard Excile. I know the pain you are feeling in your heart.
I'm sensing that you are not detached. You have to find a way to get there. It [censored]. It hurts. But you are going to have to get there so that you can take care of yourself. You are in limbo and that is no place to be.
You are trying to mind read a little too. I do sense that your W is conflicted. Just because it feels like things are over, doesn't mean that they actually are. You've still got to DB, detach, 180 and GAL. That is what will give you a shot at your M.
Dont let her cake eat. It sounds like that is what she is doing. You don't have to do things as a family in order to properly take care of your kids. If she's pushed you out, you are not a family anymore. You can be kind to her and be a good father to your kids but that doesn't mean you have to "play" family when you are not. Unless you want to. You can certainly decide that you want to be friends going forward. But if you allow that, I think that decreases your chances of reconciling. She needs to miss you. She needs to know what she has lost. Be an awesome man and show her what she is missing out on.
My W tells me on one hand that when I find a better place to live, I won't be able to visit as often yet she then tells me that things are better when we see each other in small bursts like me being the sun going down and her the moon being allowed to breathe. She likes the way I am happier in my job and how I am with the kids. She says she doesn't want a 'romance' and just wants to be friends.
I don't get it. I feel like I am in limbo. She likes me around when it suits her. She needs me but pushes me away. She has cleared the house if all my stuff and put it in the attic. We are taking the kids to a farm today as a family.
What's not to get?
This forum really needs a LIKE button somewhere :-)
My BD from my WW happened just over a month ago. I took down the wedding photos and the ones of us on the fridge together. It felt good... I felt that I had control. She said it was being petty. I'm starting to let her go with my head and my heart will just have to play catch up.
You have got to detach Exile101; you are clinging on. My WW also just wants us to be friends when all of this is done. But friends don't break other friends hearts. I would hate to have a group of friends like that in my life.
Be strong, be you!
I know. This is no way to live. Last night she told me that I am much hppier as a person and am great with the kids. She feels that she has done me a favor by leaving me because it has made me that person I am today! She feels that things are much better now and it's the way forward for us...so much for 180..it's back firing on me. Tonight, after another good day out as a family, she said that she feels suffocated and I am around too much, even though she seemed happy enough for me to see the kids and take her to her hospital appointment. She wants me to take our D4 out tomorrow morning as she has to work. I will because I love being with her but then will no doubt tell me that I need to stay away for a few days.
I feel like crap. My new job is great, I feel in control and enjoy the company of my team...and then go home to all this. I just want to get on with her but she seems to play games and doesn't know what she really wants.
Should I just stay away from her for a while? I don't know how to detach as I have to see her in order to see the kids. How should I approach this?
I say make a fixed schedule for the kids and adhere to it. Stay away from her as much as possible, nothing good can come out of interacting with her ATM. You are still listening to her WAAAAY too much. Reread Sandi's rules, they work.
Stay strong buddy...
excile101
Definitely stay away from her. The advice VAPO has given is right on. Detach, it is the only way. Stick to Sandi's rules!
excile101, something that i'm learning to do myself. Detach, detach, detach. It's tough, but it will be well worth it once your get there.
Excile! Man!
Get a grip! It's not back firing! Its working. Give it time. She's seeing the changes you have made. She's told you that she's seen it. I don't know what more evidence you need. She has to fix herself. You're already doing the work to fix you. Eventually, she will see what she is missing. Dont give up. In fact, double down. We are all telling you what to do. DETACH! GAL. Continue with the 180's. Take your balls back and own your life.
Set a schedule with the kids and stop doing things for her. You shouldn't be taking her to appointments.
Sandi2 stated it very nicely to me... You cannot actually get your balls back. You have to grow a whole new set. You then need to show it to her, metaphorically speaking that is.
Its all about you Exile, just you.
I have been trying to keep busy. My job takes up long hours. I have just enrolled to finish my degree in engineering. I am planning on hitting the gym soon but there is an emptiness in my life I can't fill.
Last weekend was a killer. I saw the kids and took them out but when I gave them back, the lonliness crept back in. I contacted my w as I hoped to see the kids again that evening. She refused. She told me to stop using her and the kids as my company and get a life. She even suggested that I should GO AND LOOK FOR SOMEONE ELSE! I couldn't believe it. She says we are finished and that I had my chances and only wants to be friendly for the sake of the kids.
When I pick up the kids, she is ok but not very talkative. She messages me alot but only to tell me about the kids. I keep things civil when I am with her but nothing more. I am trying to detach but seeing her makes me melt. I cannot avoid not seeing her so end up pining for her.
She is reasonable with me but isn't interested in anything else. I don't contact her and let her get in touch. What else can I do here? To tell me to move on with someone else is not my objective. She knows how I feel about her so why would she say that? So confused now....
Why? You ask why my featherd friend? The answer is dead simple... It is to minimize her guilt.
What can you do you ask? Not a damn thing. So the sooner you stop looking for the silver bullet, the better it will be for you. Now is the time to focus on you and the kids and you let her be, where ever she might be... The less you give a fcuck about her, the better you will feel. I know it sounds backwards, but trust me on this one...
Hi Excile, I think the answer is probably to do just as your W has suggested and seek out new company for yourself. Not a new woman, but new friends and interests that get you out and meeting new people. If you can get to a point where you have your own stuff going on (an d you genuinely enjoy it) it does make a big difference.
And who knows, if your W sees that you are having a good time...she may just start to wonder what she's missing. But please don't do it for that reason, do it for you and do it on the basis that you may (or may not) get the chance to rebuild your M - but you can absolutely rebuild your life.
Try to get to a point where you genuinely are doing things for yourself, not 'in relation to' your W or to try and restore your M. There's no need to close any doors, but if you can accept ploughing your own furrow for the next little while, that's the best way I think.
Take care
I am there brother. I pursue, I chase and she just sh!ts all over me like your W is sh!tting all over you. Would you respect somebody who allowed that to happen?'Cause I sure wouldn't. You want to be friends? Keep doing what your doing. You want to have a great MR with her? Stop spending time as a family, stop being available, stop contacting her first. There is no other way.
Nope, I think my conclusion is much more to the point. Alas his wife does not give a damn about him... Not one IOTA
During the week, I am so busy and I enjoy going to the house and seeing the kids before bed. I find reading my D4 her story relaxing and soothing. The weekends are more difficult as I have time on my hands and nothing to do and nowhere to go. I try and focus on me but feel like a hostage who has just been released and doesn't know which direction to run in!
I tried talking to a single woman at work. She is kind and pleasant to me. She did however ask if the separation is still fresh which made me think that I no woman would go near me for a long time, so that's dating out. I then see my W who is just cold and on edge when I am around. She likes messaging me often but in her presence, you can feel the tension and awkward silence. It kills my confidence with other people yet she should be the person I am closest to but she has built up a wall. She says that we are friendly but the way she is towards me, I would hate to be her enemy! How can I shake all this up? It is a stale mate with no progress. Nothing has worked and I am fresh out of ideas.
Excile,
I know the emptiness you speak up. Its an unbearable void. But you can do something about that. YOU can fill that void. And you should fill it. We can't rely on other people in life to make us feel whole and complete. We have to be "enough" for ourselves first. That's hard. Its easier to let other people make us feel good about ourselves but no one else can ever make us complete. We have to do that ourselves. Start today. Your weekends are wide open. Find something to fill them up. Look on MeetUp dot com. Are there groups in your area that would interest you? I see that you are going to work on finishing your degree. Awesome. Are there any groups associated with the college that you could join?
You can't "shake" her up. You've got to spend this time working on yourself. She is seeing the changes in you. Keep them coming. But do them for you, not for her.
I have to admit...I find myself walking the streets. My W spends all her free time with the kids or keeping the house organised. She is busy, sees family and just gets on with life. She wants me to have a good relationship with girls as she didn't have much to do with her dad after her parents divorced. I appreciate it. She says I'm a good father and wants that to continue...I am doing what I can. I miss her...I beat myself up over my behavior and wish I could have done things differently. I do not mention the marriage anymore...seems inappropriate when our discussions are just about the kids. I don't have much to say to her anyway...the days when we would smile and talk about our day...make plans seem a distant memory now. She messages me at least 10 times a day to tell me about what the kids are up to..I find comfort in that but it's not the same as living in my home. Should I see all this as encouraging? I mean..being friendly for the sake of the girls is reasonable..but not where I want to be. I want to be kind to her and help her where I can..she does appreciate it...but I am selfish I want my wife back and Sandi's rules seem counter productive...I don't know, there is no magic bullet..
Here is my suggestion. Stop going by her house and spending time with the girls. Yes, I know, you want to and feel you need to, but I promise that is having a lot to do with her cold attitude and trying to push you away. You need to set up a schedule for when you will see the kids, and if she refuses.......get legal help. Stay out of her house! When you pick up the kids, wait in the car till they are at the door, ready to leave. She resents you being there in the house.
Stop responding to her texting, unless she asks a direct question that needs answering. Then, use only two to three words to answer.
Yes, she most certainly is playing games. She wants what she can't have. She should think she can't have you! She should get a taste of what D really looks like.
Plan something ahead for weekends. You had a life before M, get one again.
excile,
it's far too soon to consider Sandi's rules counter productive. There's a period where nothing at all will make a difference. Your W seems to be playing you the way they all do right now. Don't fall for the "friends" stuff either thinking you've got a way back in.
You've got to pull away entirely. No messaging, no answers. Be brief on anything that has to do with the kids.
There are many L's that will give you a free consult, you should start looking right now to learn your rights. Find the right fit. It might be an eye opening experience.
Do I miss the dumb little things about being married? Shared experiences over a lifetime that nobody else knows or would understand? You bet. However, you need to protect yourself, and grow yourself. If not you, for your kids. There's going to be a lot more turbulence before you get to cruising altitude.
It's been a strange week with my W taking the kids to Disneyland.
I went to the house when she was away and found that she had locked the front door from the inside and taken the key from the back door. I was furious and called the police for advice and then called a locksmith to let me in.
Things since her return had been really good. our relationship improved and she even invited me for dinner last night. It was great until she realised that I had been in the house without her knowing. I didn't want to bring any of it up as I didn't want to ruin all the progress we had made.
She is now very angry that I had been there and that I had informed the police. Even though I have every legal right to be there, she cannot accept that I can go indie without her permission. Maybe I should have considered her feelings, but I didn't think it would cause such a row. She says that a true friend would never call the cops on her and that I have been sneaky and a liar for going in.
I have tried to make peace with her as the situation was getting out of hand but she doesn't want to right now. She feels that we were turning a corner and that I was getting on with my life and seemed happier than I have ever been...I screwed up and now don't know what to do. From being in such a good position to back to the resentful and hostile environment in 12 hours! I am now looking at strict visitation for the kids again with no flexibility.
Will she calm down and can I get back to where I was? Even though I did nothing wrong, I feel like the bad guy and have ruined all my hard work...What do you all advise?
Dude,
I am sorry you feel like this, but I think she was just waiting for an excuse and by the way, would you want to tread on egg shells for the rest of your life? You said it best, that you had every right to be there. I think a foot must be planted and a line drawn.
And I think you are also misjudging the position you were in. Could it be that you only thought it was a great one? And why the f did you go to the house? Did you not read Sandi's last answer on your thread (top of page 3)?
I felt that after months of coldness and avoidance, she suddenly started to show interest. She became closer to me again and we were able to talk like old times. It was all positive until she discovered that I had been in the house and called the police.
That is what really got to her, the police, as it is something that would hold her accountable unlike me who backs down all the time.
I went to the house because I wanted to spend some time there as I feel happy there and the alternative was being alone in a room that is not my home. She wasn't even there so it's not like I was hounding her.
I know what sandi said and I appreciate that now may be the time to implement her advice. I cannot continue to one day be ok and the next be at the receiving end of her belittling anger.
She is now not communicating with me and I am not initiating any contact. I'm sure she will contact me at one point to arrange seeing the girls. I need some time to get some sleep, all this has taken it's toll on my health.
She spoke of a "new friendship" that she thought we had before I did what I did. She now just thinks that I am a deceitful and spiteful person that doesn't know what friendship is. She has really hit me hard as I thought things were getting better. Maybe I'm over optimistic.
I believe that I am addicted to her in a way. I read the advice given to me on this thread but feel I can't stay away from her. I just like being in the house with her and the kids and experiencing what once was. It is probably slowing down my recovery but it's a good feeling even though it doesn't last long.
I guess I need to take this situation as an opportunity to detach from her but I am struggling. I relied on her so much that I don't know anything else.
She called the cops, because you were there, or did she call the cops because the room was disturbed and she thought she'd been burgled?
No Vapo. I called the cops to get advice. she took offence as she thought I had reported her.
She has now said that she hopes to re-establish our "friendship" soon as long as I respect her boundaries! This may be due because I was pissed at her for the way she has been treating me in the last week. Perhaps she feels she needs to get me on side in case I start pulling away..not sure.
It seems to me,she's using anything and everything to justify her actions. And she is dangling the "friendship" thing to make you jump trough hoops.
I say fcuck friendship, I do not wan't a friend, I want a WIFE!
Yes Vapo, I agree. I don't need this kind of friendship. She has now changed the locks and has been spiteful and bringing up every mistake that I have made. I'm not sure this marriage can be saved now. She needs me around, for the children's sake and maybe as an outlet for her frustrations but as soon as we are on talking terms, she starts a row. She says she doesn't give a damn about keeping the house as she doesn't want me to have any hold over her. I don't even know if I should stsy in the same town anymore. She has restricted my access to the kids so I won't see them as often.
Are tgere any rules as to when to walk away from trying to save a marriage?
Do not let you fcuck you ouver with the kids. Do not get railroaded. Did you get any L advice?
I got advice from a lawyer and from what he said, I am getting more than average visitation at the moment. I have been advised to record my visits and the length of time I spend with the kids and he fears that once I find my own place, things are likely to change, requiring mediation to set structured times.
At the moment, due to UK law, which she is adhering to, I may want to make my life easier and negotiate what I can with her unless they get messy. Ultimately, if I want to play hard ball, then it will start costing me alot of money and the outcome will not really change.
I think Sandi2 was right in that she resents me being in the house. She is quick to tell me when it is time to go and although she is being "friendlier" than she has been, she isn't the woman I married anymore.
This forum is about saving marriages, but to be honest, I can't see how this can be saved at the moment. She is still adamant about ending it even though it is difficult for her and is probably putting up a wall to protect herself.
What I find odd, is that neither of us are going to be better off after divorce. We have young kids and a house and although I am scrambling around trying to think of ways to rebuild my life and deal with the crushing loneliness, hers has not changed at all. She has the same routines and is content. She only really speaks to me about the kids but I wish she would drop her guard and show me some of the tenderness that she once did. Apart from the issue I had before, we didn't want for anything and had a normal family life. I am questioning everything right now and still find it hard to believe that she would not want to be part of what we had.
I guess I am trying to rationalize what has happened and think of what to do with myself now as I have programmed myself to be a husband and family man for the long haul. Wish there was something I could do to shock her into seeing what she will loose.
To add to matters...It's our 10th wedding anniversary on Wednesday. I want to acknowledge it in some way but I'm not sure how. Any suggestions? Should I write a letter or card?
Doesn't sound like you are in a relationship at the moment so why would you send her a card etc, just keep detached!
I was thinking of just letting her know that I am thinking of her. She told me tonight that she is feeling very fragile emotionally and wants the anniversary to just be done with. She feels bad at asking me to leave when I hand back the kids and is obviously hurting right now.
Excile, definitely no card, DO NOT SEND flowers with a note saying "remembering all the good years", or any other acknowledgement of the anniversary.... Call some friends and make plans to go out, do not sit home alone that night, it will be a hard night.
Well our anniversary passed and we communicated via messages, kinda supporting each other. she felt there were no regrets having being married but stated that if we could turn back time, she would have enrolled us in marriage therapy and then maybe we wouldn't have been in this situation. She continued that our future is in the hands of a higher being and what is meant to be will be..destiny...
What does that all mean? Is it common for a WAW to speak like that?
I am wondering weather I should even ask her to attend therapy. The future of this marriage is in her hands not a higher being!!
She has been reaching out to my mom, wanting her to be more involved with the children and go away for a weekend. Not sure if this is good news for the marriage.
any advice?
Maybe I missed something but it shows that you first signed up to this forum in 2010. Was that when you were in a different relationship or the current one?
It was the current one. My w left me and we eventually reconciled after 9 months. She then decided that the grass wasn't greener and we started again. This time is different. There are no other men involved. She filed for divorce without any separation period. I am wondering if now she is conflicted and maybe thinks she was a too hasty in her decision..
Is there any way of getting posts back from 2010? I am curious to read how I dealt with things back then..
I wish she would drop her guard and show me some of the tenderness that she once did. Apart from the issue I had before, we didn't want for anything and had a normal family life.
I think ^^^^^^^^^^ this is preventing you from letting go. Exile, at this point....you have to emotionally let go of her and the hope that she is going to change back into the loving wife you need.
Do you understand that it is your own feelings and inability to let go, that has kept you attached to her and the whole family togetherness?
I think it may take scheduling visitation and you taking the kids with you and going outside of the family house to be with them. Every time you enter the home, it pulls at your emotions and the desire to be back with all of them. I think you really need to discipline yourself and design a plan where she has the kids ready to leave with you when you arrive, and you stay out of the house.
I believe it would help with her resentment of you "hanging out" in the house, under the guise of being with the kids. I think you are wanting to be around her, as much as you want to be with the kids. You miss your home, which very understandable.......however, she can sense your feelings and I think it is going against what you wanted to accomplish.
It is high time to get tougher with yourself. You must develop some type of life apart from your W and kids. You need to develop a hobby; get involved in some type of volunteer work helping those in need; meet new people and make new friends; go to places where people gather; do things for fun; go to the mall and be around others who hang out there........it's better than walking the streets (I would think). You are so focused on how lonely you are, and will be, if you don't reconcile, that you are not giving yourself permission to have a life outside of the dream of going home.
It appears that she has tried to tell you that there could be a possibility for a new relationship with you, some day. But you must get out of her space! She wants to feel freedom, and she doesn't feel it when you are there with her.
I suspect you give off a sense of being a little pitiful. This sounds bad to say, but it is a turn-off to a WW. If it should stir some guilt inside of her, it will make her angry and she will direct that anger at you. Surely you would not want her to take you back out of pity.
The WW is attracted to the man who is self confident in his own male strength, in who he is as a man, and that he certainly isn't needy or clings to anyone. He is happy-go-lucky, yet he can be firm, fearless, and assertive. She must sense that you do not "need" her in order to be happy in life.
You have said you don't know how to assist in her experiencing loss, due to her decision to break up the family. The first and most important loss she needs to experience is losing YOU. How can that happen if you are there at the house?
It's time to drop the rope. Am I saying to give up all hope? I am saying to stop trying to save your MR right now. It is not working, the way you have been dealing with it. I am speaking, hopefully, in a language the LBH'S understand. Let go and stop trying to save it. I think that is the only way you will turn lose.
My WW asked me to leave the house and I did. I know it's against DB advice in general, but my IC said differently. He said in this day and age it was incredibly easy for a woman to get a man kicked out of the house with trumped up abuse charges, and that could impact future custody as well. I was better off moving on. Personally to me a house is just a possession and can be replaced, so I left.
For 5 months I was staying with friends. But here's the point- my DB coach told me it was *imperative* I got my own place. She said as long as I was staying with friends and visiting the children at the old house, it would seem to WW that I was peering in the windows trying to get back in. And that for her and for me I needed my own space.
I got my apartment and it was the best thing I've ever done. Looking back, that was right around when I was first able to start truly letting go. Sure, it was lonely at first when my children weren't around. And some of the hardest times of my life were when I dropped my kids off back with their mom and had to leave.
But it didn't take long for this apartment to become my home. It is small, way too small, but then again it is cozy. All 3 kids sleep in one bedroom. But we spend time together. They play together. We read together. It is very close family time, which I know they need. Now we'll move in few months so this apartment turned out to last 2 years, but while I'm excited about a nicer place and the kids having their own room, I'm a little sad about the end of this era. I'll never forget the time we spent here, it turned out to be about as good as it gets.
I'm not sure where you're living, but I think getting your own place to live would be a good move, and having the kids over at your place even better. Then do what you have to do to get 50% parental time.
Trust me, instead of feeling like you're missing out, WW will start to see she is missing out when you're living a full life with your children without her.
And, as in my case, if she is too far gone to register, then you are also rebuilding a life that you can feel good about without her.
You've put all of your eggs in the basket of her changing for far too long now. Time to assume she won't and lead your children.
I echo Zeus and Sandi, I have needed the space away from WW to rebuild myself and it wasn't going to happen in the same houe together. I had to hit rock bottom a few months ago to start going back up. Don't fear it, it will happen but then you will move forward, not necessarily move on yet but you must move forward.
The space has allowed me to see the problems from a better perspective, (as I once read Coach say, to look at the relationship from outside the fishbowl) to see were we both made mistakes. We can keep having our pity parties or we can step up, grow and learn from this difficult time. It has taken some 2x4's here and from family and friends to keep me straight at times but you do get there. I also look back to who I was before, to rebuild that confident man who handled anything and add the new things I am learning.
Read books, especially into what women find attractive, write down your positive qualities (we all have them and the list is longer than you think). Focus on these and improve yourself.
Search posts from Coach, I have found alot of really good posts by him.
And as Sandi told me, if you are always watching her your ship will sink, let her go. Life your life and embrace the time you have!
My stbx had a bit of an outburst tonight which was interesting.
I asked her if she wanted to join me and the kids for a meal tomorrow. She said that she would rather I just took the girls..she then began by saying that she knew that I was still hoping to get back with her. She said that she thinks that over the last few months, I have become a better person than I ever have been in the marriage and wonders if it is because we are no longer together. She says she likes me alot and even loves me but not in the way I want. She said that she has fallen out of love. She feels that it would be easy to take me back the way I am now but cannot put herself through anymore hurt if it all went back to how it was. She wants to schedule time to talk to me alone as we only ever discuss the kids and this whole situation has been massive for both of us....
So it appears my 180 has been working even though I haven't actually tried to change. I have just been kind to her and helped her where I can. My D8 thinks I am much nicer now and loves being with me.
What now though? We are friends but she either doesn't feel in love or is keeping me at bay. Is she conflicted? She wants to remain friends for the sake if the kids...really? We have years of being 'friends'asthe kids are still young..am I in for a long fight to win her heart?
Yep... A looooooooooong fight. A fight that you shouold NOT wage. Because it is really not a fight.
I have been reading the post from zues123 and yes I agree that getting my own place is my next move. I am viewing a place tomorrow and hope I get it because rentals are at a premium in my area. I know I have been waiting around, hoping my WW will change her mind...but she hasn't. I don't think she would rule anything out in the future but for now, I am getting nowhere. I too want to have the kids with me for weekends and enjoy time with them without being told it's time to leave.
Today my WW asked if I could go round to the house to fix a blocked sink. I went there because I knew that I would get to take the girls to the park. My WW didn't even offer me a glass of water after doing the repairs. She has this mentality that she needs to keep me at a distance and keep reminding me that we are divorcing! Does she get a kick out of it? I almost feel sorry for her as she is just spiting her own face by her actions. It almost seems like she is faking it to show no emotion...The girls on the other hand have told her that they have no favorites and love us both the same, which must have hit my WW quite hard.
Anyway, like zues123 said, his WW felt left out of his time alone with the kids..I think my WW will too. I just need to figure out how to detach from her completely. I know that my own loneliness is a big factor here but are there any ideas out there to start me off?
Been a strange few weeks. I really thought I had turned a corner and become more independant. Then one evening..she calls to say the kids wanted to see me. I went over and she threw her arms around me. For the following weeks, she became more approachable and friendly...until she went to her moms house for the weekend..and now wants space and to not see me too much as it stirs up bad memories! I am feeling lonely and not back to where I was but feel down and treated badly. Why would she blow hot and cold like this? She wants to cut down the days I see the kids as it's difficult for her to be around me all of a sudden..should I just go dark for a while? How can I protect myself from her games?
First of all, do not let her manipulate you re: kids. DO NOT LET HER. I am sure you can arrange kid drop off/pick up with a third party.
As for her behavior, it was/is to be expected, She does not what she want's herself. Remember, it's not you, it is all about her...
Very true Vapo...
Been reflecting on the Sandi2 advice that I need to stay away from the house. Up until now, I enjoyed going to the house, spending time in the garden playing games and doing bath time. My W seemed ok with it all. Now that I have my own place at last, she wants to change the arrangement and have me take them to my place instead as she wants more space and feels that we have been spending to much time together. I thought I was coping ok and even felt like I was moving on until she decided to put the wall up again.
It seemed ok whilst she needed me to help her buy a new car and to give her support with the kids and yes, it's all about what she wants....she has even been encouraging me to look for someone else if I need female companionship as she still believes I want to save the marriage...as if that's a bad thing?!
Another factor, is that her sister has just separated from her husband too adding to the problems.
She says we have a friendship and cares about me, knows I am good natured and a good father. She also knows she has issues but has not shown any willing to attend therapy...maybe I should take the hint but it still feels so wrong to me what's happening. It is hard to completely let go.
Hi sandi2
I don't think I was ready to accept your advice until now.
My W's attitude towards me changes all the time so I am never sure weather she means what she says but now that I am about to move into my own rented house, she has said that she we spend too much time together and I need to only see the kids at my place. I accept that I wanted to go to see the kids at our home because for short periods, everything felt normal and I could spend time with my W even if only to make small talk. It was like a short respite from my day to day nightmare and disbelief that the divorce was actually happening and gave me hope that little by little she may come round. Well, it hasn't worked. She says she was miserable in the marriage but likes the person I am now. It still doesn't change anything though and I just don't know if it ever will.
I figure that if I was to start again with someone else, my current routine would not be acceptable. Also, I am getting tired of being knocked back and told that I can't let go.
I am not sure if keeping my distance will improve the situation with my w but I am open to suggestions as she seems to watch and wait until I am coping better and then reals me back in by doing and saying nice things to me. It's as if she knows that I am distancing myself from her or even senses it. I don't want to push her away as we have to co-parent our D4 and D8 and keep a reasonable relationship, but is there an easier or more productive way to navigate through all this?
Hi
I have been going through a difficult time with my stbx changing her attitude towards me on almost a weekly basis. We separated 7 months ago and up until recently, I moved out of the home and into a room in a house. Now that I have a new high paying job, have moved into a luxury apartment and have kept my course in doing a 180, she says that she misses me and feels that I have really changed as a person for the better. She thinks I am a great father to our kids but then says that she doesn't want to get back together but looks at me with loving eyes.
I had almost given up on her and have been setting myself up to hopefully meet someone new when we divorce but her changing moods confuse me. She seems to want to have the arrangement that the kids come to stay with me at weekends but then enjoys going out with us all as a family and helps me choose furniture and takes deliveries for me. She even comes over to watch a film with me and cook me a meal...all very strange from someone that wanted me out of her life. She asks me where I am going and with whom and is generally interested in me.
I just don't get it. She filed for divorce 7 months ago and seemed to be adamant that we both had to move on. I, to an extent have but her life is the same and has no intention of dating anyone and just wants be a good mom.
Should I see this a positive step to reconciliation? How should I approach all this?
Should I see this a positive step to reconciliation?
How should I approach all this?
Although on the surface - yes it sounds positive,
it also could be her desire to keep you around as plan B.
I have merged this in with your other threads.
Did she have an OM?
I have to go back to re-read.
Its also possible that their is some deeper things going on with her.
She may be feeling your detachment and as you slip away it scares her into trying to reel you back in.
Hi Cadet
There is no OM involved as far as I am aware. Her life is very simple. She doesn't go out and just looks after the kids and goes to work. She is however, a planner. I also think that she enjoys things the way they are. We live separately but meet up to have family time and I am around if she needs help or just someone to chat to. If I move on, all this would stop so I wonder if she has to suffer some losses to really appreciate what she had.
The only way she could reel me back in would be to stop the divorce and agree to work on the marriage. So far, nothing has changed for her. She still lives in the house and I still pay the mortgage and give her money for the children. I am still around and there is no threat from anyone else. She has the best of both worlds. She has mentioned that she no longer wants a sexual relationship with a man again which I find hard to believe but she seems content with being on her own.
Any strategies here would be of great help.
Exile, can you not post more often? I think it would really help in getting you more responses.
There is no OM involved as far as I am aware. Her life is very simple. She doesn't go out and just looks after the kids and goes to work. She is however, a planner. I also think that she enjoys things the way they are. We live separately but meet up to have family time and I am around if she needs help or just someone to chat to. If I move on, all this would stop so I wonder if she has to suffer some losses to really appreciate what she had.
You
think?
The only way she could reel me back in would be to stop the divorce and agree to work on the marriage.
Reel you in? She's had you since the get-go.
. So far, nothing has changed for her. She still lives in the house and I still pay the mortgage and give her money for the children. I am still around and there is no threat from anyone else. She has the best of both worlds. She has mentioned that she no longer wants a sexual relationship with a man again which I find hard to believe but she seems content with being on her own.
I could use your situation as a model illustration of what I have tried to get LBH'S to see.
You gave the remedy yourself, but fail to see it, so I will show it again. "
So far, nothing has changed for her". .
She has lost nothing except sexual intimacy with
you..........and she doesn't consider that a loss, b/c she doesn't want it. So, open your eyes and see how she has the perfect setup. Perfect for her, that is. Why would she want to change anything when it's just the way she likes it now?
I second Sandi's writings...
Sure Sandi2, I'll try and post more. I have just been trying to block it all out to be honest. I have thrown myself into my work.
I feel so frustrated by the whole situation I don't know what I should next. I am setting myself in my rented home and think about other things. I see the kids regularly on agreed days but have minimal face to face contact with my W except on days I see the girls. My W is happy to hug me, chat and spend time at my new place but then leaves until she sends me photos of the girls or asks how I am. Jeez..she even takes deliveries for me when I am at work as I leave her the key. It has become more of a brother/sister relationship where she tells me that she cares about me thinks of me fondly!
She asks me if I have had any visitors and takes more of an interest in my life and where I may be. It's all very civilised and pleasant apart from the problem that it is all tearing me apart as I just don't know what she really wants.
I feel so conflicted. One minute I am wondering if I should just go and find someone else and then I feel guilty because my W may want to reconcile and I don't want to let the girls down and change the arrangements which are keeping some kind of "normality" for the kids. My hands are tied.
It feels like there needs to be a serious shake up to change the dynamics here. The problem is I'm worried that I'll jeopardise any hopes for the future or upset the children. I also have no idea as to what to next.
She wants to keep you on the back burner, a plan B so to speak. You know what she means when she asks if you had any visitors over, don't you?
It is as she does not want you, but does not anyone else to have you either.
You were right in stating that it is tearing you inside. Do not worry that what is she is trying to reconcile. She is not, not yet anywayz... And do not go out hunting for other women of the opposite sex, because you are not ready yet, not by a long shot. Just focus on yourself and learn to be happy by yourself and learn to love yourself again. Contrary to what you've been told your whole life, YOU are the most important person in your own life and you take the least care of yourself. Go out, go hiking, do sports, be the best dad in the world. Focus 100% on the kids when they are with you.
Let your W go do her stuff and basically start listening to your gut feeling. I personally would not allow the hugs, as I am sure you are aware the hugs are as in a friend and not a lover. I do not want to be friends with the X, do you? How can you be friends with someone who treats you like that? I can't but that's just me. Sure you could be thinking that friendship is the way back to your W's heart, but I disagree...
Put your fears of the future on hold ,the fear is paralyzing you from moving forward. You do not have to move on from your W, but you do have to move forward.
Stay strong buddy...
In 2010 we separated for a year and she had two affairs. The first happened after a month of me moving out. She continued to flirt online and like men to give her attention.
Remember this ^^^^^^? I don't think it's all about your porn addiction. That gal has some addictions, herself. Was she into chat rooms, online dating sites, etc.? I would be willing to bet a month's salary you don't know half of what she does under the category of flirting and getting men's attention.
Your porn probably paid a big part in the breakdown of the MR, but I don't think it is the only reason.....or maybe even the true reason....for her wanting a S/D.
sandi2
My w has always had a secretive side to her. She always kept her social media sites private from me but I did have access to her facebook account until she changed the password when we separated. Men have always flirted with her via messages but nothing ever happened. It was like an easy way to get attention without any confrontation or pressure to act out.
If I ever found something and confronted her, she would become very angry as if she was found out.
I don't think she is seeing anyone else. There is no plan A. She knows that with two young children it would be almost impossible to sustain a relationship and would alienate me, which she relies on too much.
She is very introverted as a person. Very reserved and would rather text that pick up the phone. She is a planner, very organised and rarely spontaneous. She is a control freak. Still tells me how to parent the kids and likes to know what I'm doing. Although, she likes her own company until she needs me or has no plans of her own so likes to tag along with me and the girls.
My W has said that the porn was not really the main reason for the D and it was more to do with me not meeting her needs and the problems I had with my D8. She says she likes the person I have become but doesn't want to get back with me.
Excile you don't want to get it which is different. It's ok, I didn't want to get it either. The "it" is that they don't have any motivation to change unless we give them some. I am you minus the high paying job. I was always there for my W, I gave her tons of money. She said she is proud of me for my accomplishments, but still didn't want to reconcile. Why? Because she doesn't respect me, because I continue to allow her to play with my feelings and I don't stand up to her. I had to decide what I wanted and who I wanted to be. I decided that I want my family together, but more importantly I want to be a husband and father. My W was ok with me being friend and father. I haven't communicated with my W in 3 days. That is the longest time without communication that we have ever had, why? Because I don't want a friend, I want a wife and sending any other message to her by talking as a friend would not be fair to me or to her. I'm not saying stop talking to your W completely, but stop taking the kids every weekend, stop telling her who you are with, stop allowing her to dictate how you parent your kids, stand up to her and walk away. Forget how she feels, focus on you and the kids!
Yes. Take this advice. Do you want to be a H, or just one of many friends? I could feel the friends crap coming on, and have drastically cut communication. They'll do everything they can to keep up with you. My WW is starting to respect me more and more, is interested in what I do, has made it known she's scared of me dating, tries to provoke empathy, knows I'm not answering my phone or texts so has started to call the work phone and just began sending emails.
They want to have a sense of family while not having to perform a single duty of a W. It's outrageous in theory, but we miss them and family so much it's hard to say no at first. They'll cry, get angry, and do all kinds of things to provoke a response. WW sent me an email yesterday I felt questioned my parenting skills. I wanted to blow up about it, but calmed down and sent her a short response validating her concerns and pushing back on a few things she noted.
I too want a W. I want a family. But in order to show HER what it means to be family, you cannot enable them. Not easy, and I'm far from perfect. But my WW is learning what it'd be like to be D, not having me to depend on for $$$, support, time, casual S conversations, etc.
You and your kids are #1.
To be honest. I just want someone to love and be loved. I hoped my W would be that person. I hoped to make her see me in a different light but all she does is criticise me for not being the perfect dad. I want to win her back. To go home and be with my family. To have the intimacy and romance back that we once had. To start again and work on our issues. I don't know what her long term plans are. We don't talk about our marriage anymore. It's all about the kids. I try and look to the future but I can't see her in it the way things are.
She has everything she wants. I wish I knew what to do.
Melo, you are right. I am not respected. I am looked down upon by my W and her family. I could never meet their expectations although they havevmultiple failed marriages and are just bitter.
How can I make a difference? How can I get some respect? My W relies on me to an extent but is keen to show how capable she she is and doesn't need me or any other man to get through life. She lives through the kids and judges me on how I interact with them. As for our marriage, we haven't mentioned it for months now..just seems like it's done with and now waiting for the divorce to come through..
So my question now is..how do I win her respect? Is it by being a good father? Is it by going dark? I have improved myself in so many ways but still no chance to change her mind. We have had a tough week as she felt I wasn't being a good dad because I fed them late and one day, took them home an hour early. She hasn't spoken to me since! Should I just stop communicating with her and just puck up the kids in silence?
Don't do anything out of spite, don't do anything just to get a reaction out of her.
Be a man, do not let her walk all over you, but do not get into fights with her. It ain't gonna be easy.
And fot [censored]'s sake, don't be a mind reader, trying to guess what she felt and what she meant. You do not know what she felt and what she meant, so give it a rest already. Time to develop yourself and that means without looking over your shoulder if your W is watching.
If you stop communicating with her, you will just look petty and childish. Act upbeat around her, act happy (but not overly, she will see trough it).
Time to reclaim your life...
She doesn't respect you b/c she controls you. She uses her anger to punish you for anything she doesn't approve. You said yourself that she gets everything she wants.
You need to face some facts about your W. She may never feel desire and love for you again, b/c you let her control you. You cater to her, although she doesn't treat you as a W should treat her H. If you stand up to her and start doing whatever the hell you want to do.........it may change a few dynamics in the R. Learning to tell her "no" and stop carrying her around on a royal pillar might help her see you as a man. The hard fact is that you have enabled her to control you and she may never give it up.
You want to stick your head in the sand and hope everything bad goes away and you can pull your head out again to see she really loves you. It just doesn't work that way in real life. You have a choice. You can start living your life to please yourself.........and perhaps she will see a man in you that she likes enough to change her ways..............or you can continue being her puppet which guarantees your situation won't likely change.
It's bizarre...On Friday my W invited me to go with her and our D4 to see a play my D8 was in. We then went for a meal at a restaurant together and spent a nice evening. It was as if nothing had happened. We were a normal family. My w looked at me affectionately and was hoping to go out with the children again soon. At the end of the evening she nervously asked me where I was going the weekend. It was as if she thought I may be seeing someone and it seemed to worry her. I didn't see her the weekend as she went to her mothers house with the kids. Her anger just stopped from the previous week without discussion. If she's so concerned with me getting a life, why does she let this continue? I can see she cares for me but is happy for us to live seperate lives and just co parent.
Have you read the WW threads? B/c I answered this scenario of why your W can switch to suddenly wanting to spend a day together as a family. I also addressed why she would suddenly be curious about her H's activities (like how he spends his weekend).
To me, it's a plain as the nose on her face. Something caused her to think you might be interested in going out with some other lady. She was securing her position. She was showing you how nice she could be and how the family could spend a wonderful day together. However, she gave herself away when asked what you were doing over the weekend.
If you were smart, you would play Mr. Cool and just give vague answers. She needs to be concerned you could actually find another woman who would treat you much better than she has. This is the beginning of her thinking she could actually lose you!
My advice is don't reassure her. She doesn't get to know what you do in your personal time. Think of her as a nosy neighbor. Just smile and wave and keeping on walking.
Thw situation now is that her Sister has left her husband after he was found to be womanising, gambling and taking drugs. So now my stbx, sister and mom, who is also single and bitter after her husband left her for another woman, have become a tight unit where men are seen as a problem. They all stick together now and are away for a week on holiday with all the kids. I feel like I am now an outsider even though I was only ever kind and helpful to all of them. It would be difficult to break through the mistrust and apathy towards me especially with rhetoric from her family who I fear are telling my stbx to stay away from me. I am keeping communications to a minimum now as it wouldn't be welcome. I also feel like being friendly has so far achieved nothing more than partly civil conversation when I collect the kids. Should I just keep my distance from her? She doesn't suspect I have much of a life outside work but feel that she should have cause for concern that I may walk away...just wanted your thoughts on what I can do to help my cause if at all.
It's been 9 months now since my W filed for D. She seems more friendly but we never discuss our marriage or future. I turn up to collect the kids, say hello and leave. Occasionally she will make me a coffee and discuss the girls schooling but nothing more. She did once say that I am a better person than I was but at the time didn't want to reconcile.
Should I carry on and just wait for the D to be made final or say something? I have followed sandi's rules and am more independent than I was at the start. Problem is the rules seem to be about distancing yourself and giving nothing away. My W doesn't seem to react much apart from wonder where I may go of an evening, but she's not that bothered either way.
She has the kids and that seems to be enough for her. She lives in our house and looks after them both, rarely goes out and only sees her mom and sister.
Just drives me nuts that I have to just sit by and say nothing.
Is it because she doesn't respect me or is happy the way things are now and doesn't want it to change?
She did once say that I am a better person than I was but at the time didn't want to reconcile.
She can say what she wants, but her opinion of you is no longer relevant. You become the person you want to be for YOU. For her to think she is in a place to evaluate your value as a person is condescending and hypocritical considering that she abandoned a family and has her own problems. Bottom line, don't let her manipulate you by trying to earn more of her praise. Walk the road you need to walk regardless of whether she spews or acts friendly about it.
Should I carry on and just wait for the D to be made final or say something? I have followed sandi's rules and am more independent than I was at the start. Problem is the rules seem to be about distancing yourself and giving nothing away. My W doesn't seem to react much apart from wonder where I may go of an evening, but she's not that bothered either way.
The reasons following Sandi's rules hasn't 'worked' is because there is nothing that will 'work'. If we assume there is something you can do that will for sure bring your WAW back to the marriage, I can see why you'd figure 'this isn't working, switch it up'. But the problem with that measuring stick is it's a faulty assumption. Unfortunately there are a lot of times when WAW won't look back, or if she does it won't be for years, not months.
My compass has always been "if I knew she wasn't coming back no matter what I did, how would I want to live my life for ME?"
Personally I haven't seen any R's come about because of heart to hearts in which the LBS explains how they can change, how much they love WAS, or how WAS is making a mistake, etc. Feel free to comb through the archives and see if I'm wrong. So while there is no play that is guaranteed to 'work', there are things that are guaranteed to sabotage your chances and slow down the timelines dramatically.
So no, I don't think you have a conversation with her. Personally I think you need to detach more, and more. Not necessarily 'distance' more, but emotionally you need to keep striving for a place where you don't feel compelled to have R talks and watch her moves and constantly reassess your chances of R. It's hard and doesn't happen overnight, but keep trying to let go and move forward.
Sorry excile, it's such a hard loss that it is quite a journey to comprehend much less accept. WAS aside what's going on in your life?
Zues laid it out beautifully...
Excile you say it is driving you nuts not to say anything. Well, the great thing is that you can say what you want. But you have to ask yourself how is that going to benefit you. You do not have to take abuse from her, but other than that, it's just water off of the duck's back. It is really futile trying to guess what she thinks or how she feels and trust me, you do not want to be in her head. There is a very good chance that even she doesn't know what she wants. In fact I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount on that.
So how does that help you you ask? You have to take your eyes off of her, start living your life as you would want to live it. I know we would all like to be in a loving relationship with our soulmates, but now it is time to learn to like and love yourself first and come to the realization that you will be ok weather your W decides to turn back or not...
Stay strong buddy...
Well zues126, I have thrown myself into my job which is very involved as I am part if a team building a new railway. I am finishing my degree in engineering, I go to the gym 4 times a week and see the kids three times a week. So I am pretty busy and enjoy researching and buying things fir my appartment.
I try not to worry to much about my waw. I think about possibly meeting someone new in the future. I still go out with my waw and the kids and we have a great time together as a family and that is puzzling me a bit. Maybe she knows that we are better together but is waiting out for something..either way, I just get on with what I am doing. I may be wrong, but I have this weird feeling that she may be waiting to divorce me just so she can re marry me? I know it's sounds crazy but I think she has a plan. I don't worry about it too much and just enjoy my peaceful life the way it is...what do you think?
excile101,
Your wife undoubtedly has a plan.
My stbx contacted me to tell me that her lawyer is going to contact me to let me know when the divorce is to be finalized.
She then said that we need a clean slate and the divorce is necessary right now as our vows no longer meant anything. She continued that she can see that I have tried very hard to improve myself and that we will always be tied through the children and who knows where our relationship will go in the future. She says that she has forgiven me for my porn use and issues in the past.
She basically has everything worked out. She wants to end our marriage so we can start over in some way. I've never heard of anything like it before. I'm not sure if I should remain hopefull of a reconciliation or weather I should run for the hills! It seems she is still trying to be in control.
I know I should be happy that there may be hope for us in the future but a divorce is a very painful process and I don't know how I should feel about it all.
What should I be thinking/ doing? This is all so confusing...
She basically has everything worked out. She wants to end our marriage so we can start over in some way. I've never heard of anything like it before.
Yo can bet your ass she does not everything worked out... I think she's sending you on a guilt trip, implying that your porn use was to blame, yada yada yada...
I say you reread Sandi's rules and power on. Nothing changes if the D finalizes...
And yes, of course she ties to be in control. She "subtly" let you know that it was your issues that killed the marriage, so she was free to pursue her happiness.
Big congratulations on the improvements on yourself, but I have to tell you, that if you made the improvements just because/for your W, you did them for all the wrong reasons.
I gather you are under the 1 yr mark post BD, and the first year is bad, really tough, but it does get better.
Stay strong brother, be the rock in the life of your kids...
I still go out with my waw and the kids and we have a great time together as a family and that is puzzling me a bit. Maybe she knows that we are better together but is waiting out for something..either way,
So, if she's holding out for something better (prince charming), are you content to stand by and wait?
She hasn't lost you, Excile. She D you, and still has not lost you. She throws a few crumbs and you think it means hope of getting back together. In the meantime, she pretty much has things going for her. She has no doubt that you are "waiting", willing, and able to jump on the M train again.
Maybe she needs to see how a "real" divorce family lives. Know what I mean?
During the last few weeks, my stbx ha been more friendly and willing to spend time with me and the girls. she told me that she feels that it is rare for a divorcing couple to get along so well....I feel like screaming inside as she seems oblivious to the fact that I am doing everything I can as described in the last resort technique and not just letting be.
I always treat her with kindness and am supportive to her. She likes to keep everything open ended when stating our situation or when we talk about the future. Fact is that I live alone. I have not dated anyone and have no appetite for it. I am just old reliable me that is happy to spend time with her or the kids at any given moment. Our D8 is in hospital at the moment and my stbx is by her bed side all the time. I visit every day and am as supportive to her which makes her happy. I am still her rock. But then I leave and go back to my rental until next time.
I know reconciliation can take time and some people seem to just live their lives independently and not even see their ex for periods of time before reconnecting. I however, see her all the time as the kids are young and need us both.
Should I just continue with this arrangement or do something differently? The kids have grown used to this arrangement and seem happy to adapt to seeing their dad in a different house. For me though, I am alone and frustrated with it all. with divorce being finalized in two to three weeks, where do I go from here?
"I am just old reliable me that is happy to spend time with her or the kids at any given moment."
Well, therein lies the problem I think.
"Should I just contine with this arrangement or do something differently?"
I would never advocate dating whilst still M, or for a good while after D - so I am in no way suggesting that. However, I would begin to make plans for yourself that involve meeting new people in social, educational, volunteering or whatever settings. Whatever floats your boat really.
It looks as though your D may be about to finalise. Do you still want to be same old you waiting for your W to call and suggest doing something. Heck no - I would get out there and take life by the horns. What have you always wanted to do but never gotten around to it? Well, now is the time for that I would say...
It also seems perfectly reasonable to adjust the care arrangements for the kids. Yes they need you both - but they don't need you both caring for them together if that doesn't work well for you.
Hope this helps a little and good luck with things.
It's as though you hear nothing we say. Stop playing family with her. Stop being her BFF. Stop giving her access to your house. No more home cooked meals. No more spending time together. Stop using the kids as an excuse. Stop inviting her, and stop accepting her invitations. No more telling her where you are going, who you are going with, or what you will be doing. Stay away from her. Heck yeah......distance yourself!
Why don't you start acting as if you are a free agent, and loving it......instead of whining about how you can't say anything to her? Just what do you think you could say that would cause her to call off the D and give the M another chance? Nothing! Your words won't work.
Have we ever heard some of the b.s. your W is throwing at you? You bet! Telling you the vows no longer have meaning for her (which she proved that point by having affairs) and how there needs to be a D and then maybe see where things go.........is junk talk. New vows won't mean any more than the current ones mean.
Yes, we've seen it many times on the board. Your W is no original. We've seen this same scenario so many times, it's not funny. It's her way of giving you false hope.....and keeping you tied to her skirt, for those times she wants to play happy family. You are definitely plan B to whatever better option comes along for her. Just b/c you aren't seeing her plan A, means NOTHING. This is the woman who has always been secretive, remember?
I hear what you are saying sandi2 and although I would like a positive outcome for what's left of my family, I am ok. I live my life even though I have thrown myself into my job which takes up a lot of my time, and I see my kids as much as I can. I would like some intimacy with someone but am content to just close my front door and do my own thing or see my friends.
My stbx has made the children her whole life. She is massively involved in everything they do and has no time or desire for anyone new. I don't know what goes on in her head as like you said, she has been secretive in the past and I would never really know what she is doing to boost her ego if at all.
I meet up with her and the kids as, to be honest, it's nice to spend time together. The children enjoy it and I feel good taking them all out for meals and doing fun things. If people were to see us, they would presume we are just a normal healthy family.
My issue is that I struggle with what to do next after the divorce. This crazy idea that we can wipe the slate clean and start again is just weird but seeing that I haven't thought about moving on with anyone else, I am happy to see her next move if there is one.
I do wonder what would have to happen for to react in some way. What I would have to do that doesn't affect the kids to make her get a reality check that would make her do something decisive.
I don't mean go and get laid or play games with another woman. Just make her show me her cards so to speak.
As I said, I am ok the way things are right now and my career has really taken off since we separated. But this arrangement can't go on for ever and just distancing myself would mean I see the kids less which I don't want.
She is giving me false hope though and likes to back track when stating something about her life that "things could be different" in X amount of months/ years. She doesn't suspect I would even think of dating due to my work schedule and she is right. I don't want to play games with her but I feel there has to be a way out of this.
sandi2, if she just wants to play happy families when it suits her, how could I still be involved but make her realise that she has lost me? She is a controlling person and I think she feels that she has found a common way for us to co-exist without arguing and being good parents but without actually being together which just doesn't feel right.
Dude, you are spinning and you are all over the place. First of all, you have to relax, calm the fcuk down and breathe. Once you manage that, think of and do ABSOLUTELY nothing else. The answers will come to you...
I've been feeling quite down about things lately, I was doing ok until I met a friend of my stbx who felt sorry for me and couldn't understand why she had left me. It stirred up resentment in me and I have been keeping my distance from her as I no longer know what to say anymore and it brought back memories of our previous separation when she was sleeping around. My stbx sends me messages to see if I am ok, I think she is trying to make conversation as she likes the thought of me being around. I think Christmas and not being involved with the normal family stuff is affecting me too as I am not there. I see the girls but that's about it. The dinners and days out have stopped now and although I cope well, the loneliness is getting to me. I won't be seeing the girls this Christmas as they are going away with their mom and her family so not a great end to an already terrible year.
My stbx has started a new business and is trying to get me to have the kids more but although I love seeing them, I'm not sure I should be so accommodating if she tries to impose them on me as I don't want to be a walk over any longer for my own sanity.
The divorce is still pending due to administrative issues so although we should have been divorced a month ago, I am still stuck in limbo not knowing what to do next. Any ideas how to get through this time?
Excite
You grabbit every second you can with youR kids.
Why?
Because they are your kids and I hope you love them and enjoy them. Your kids are what it is all about in life, they are your kids for the whole of your life.
Time to step up and begin full on dad stuff and have fun with your kids.
That is what you do next, be the best dad you can for you, not to impress WW which is impossible anyway but for your own personal growth and for love of your children.
If you are too wrapped up in WW then these precious souls get lost between a self mother and a failing dad. Sayang you are accommodating her by being a full on dad is self absorption.
Yes I know you are hurting and frankly as far as your kids are concerned that is irrelevant.
Consider this to be more than a 2x4 from V. There are mums dads and even step parents on the board that would bite their own arm off for the opportunity to have their kids as much as possible.
Being a dad is not being a walk over, it's being a dad. Grab every precious and wonderful moment you can and enjoy your children.
V
You have to take your mind of it and immerse yourself in other stuff. Working out is a great way to fight the blues, hit the gym 3 times a week. You can burn through your anger and sadness, and you will improve your appearance which in turn will boost your confidence. You are cycling, which is normal, esp. around stressor times (xmass,...).
Stay strong buddy...
The divorce was made final just before Christmas..was quite a shock for my ex as she hadn't been informed by her lawyer. She wanted us to all go to church together to pray for strength, which is just garbage after what she has done to our family. She says that she is happy that we are friends and that we should be thankful for that although I am grateful that our arrangement keeps me involved with the kids. she feels that everything is still very raw for her and that the last year or so of our marriage was hell. She feels much happier now and that in her mind, we weren't cut out to be an average married couple with arguments and watching tv in the evenings. There is little sign that our relationship will ever improve. I know that she is flirting online again and be it for a fix or whatever, it still hurts and doesn't give me any hope for the future. If anything, I feel like I should be looking at moving on in some way. It's a lonely existence just waiting to see the kids. I see my friends and go to the gym but it isn't the same. I feel trapped in not wanting to unsettle things and at the same time, wanting to run like crazy and look for someone new. I don't even really get breadcrumbs from her anymore so what is left? Is this it? should I just accept that waiting for things to change would take to long?
You got it backwards mate. You are not waiting for her, you are waiting for you. You have to heal and come to a place of self sufficiency. You have to learn to love being by yourself an being single. Only then can you love other again. When you are needy, you seek out similar people and that is a receipe for disaster. Do not wait around for her, wait for yourself to heal and then flourish. As for standing or not standing and when to stop standing, that is a very iindividual choice to make. You have to ask yourself are aou capable of loving someone else and not hold any grudges?
excile101,
Given that can't control your ex-wife, it's time for you to go forth and prosper. There's a world full of endless opportunities...
I know I can't control her and I have no right to even try now that we are divorced. I also accept that I am still in love with her and that is probably why her behaviour hurts so much. I feel like I have always been her plan B. I still have the belief that she will come back once she has stopped fooling around and is ready to work on our relationship. I know I should cut and run but when I see the kids and her, I loose the will to let go.
So make it not so. Make it so you not only have the will to let go, you HAVE let go.
Maybe think about it this way: you've been very successful career-wise. Obviously, when faced with difficult problems in that environment, you've figured out what needs to be done, and you've done those things well. People don't advance otherwise. So you absolutely have everything it takes to detach and rebuild yourself into the Man you want to be, which is a man only a fool would leave. It's a project that needs doing. There are a bunch of elements to that project (you've been told many times in this thread what they are). Get cracking. Do those things and do them well. Your W might notice. She might not. But either way, you'll be free of the pain that's with you constantly right now. That's a great payoff. Make it happen.
Hi Excile, I'm sorry you are finding it hard to move forwards after your D has finalised. For me it was something of a light switch and this man was no longer my husband - just someone else's boyfriend and that did help me to let go.
I notice you are also in the UK and one thing that really helped me was Divorce Recovery Workshop. If you google that, there are a number of local groups who organise workshops for separated and divorced people.
WRT your XW, I think (for yourself) you need to work towards letting go of your great desire to reconcile. How is that helping and serving you? Please put your focus on healing from this and moving forward independently following your divorce. In truth, I would even think reconciliation may be more likely if you do this - but don't do it for that reason - do it because there is a life to be lived - your life!
Presumably you are living separately now, so why do you see the kids at your W's residence? It would be perfectly reasonable for you to pick them up and drop them off, spending quality time with them at your own place. All of this is within your gift. I think you just need to have a think about what works for you now. If reconciliation is to happen here, it won't happen this month, or next - so how can you live life as your best self during that time?
Let's see you making some plans to shape the life you want, given all present circumstances. Also, you may find the book 'growing through divorce' by Jim Smoke helpful.
Good luck with everything my friend
Lo my friend,I'm sorry about your sitch'but your not listening to what every one is telling you,stay away from her,no contact unless its emergency,we all been there she is treating you like a door mat no offence intended sorry about the 4x2,and when she wants some thing fixed tell to do her self or better still don't even reply,
Hi Sotto and thanks for your advice.
My current set up is that I have the kids for dinner during the week at my rented place and they stay over every other Saturday night. I get to see them as often as I want as my ex W is very happy for me to be involved in their activities and help them with homework. My ex and I talk and get on ok. She lives day to day looking after the kids and doesn't have a social life apart from seeing her family occasionally. I live independently and we generally only talk about the kids. There is no sign that she would want a reconciliation right now and I am not sure what the process should be and if I should be initiating this. It's hard for me to move on without knowing if this would be a possibility. We have been living apart for a year now so I am used to my own company and the new routine. Be great to know for sure as this would certainly help me change my mind set..but I'm no mind reader so I am stuck in limbo..
Excile101, I feel your pain. Your W wanting to go to church after D was finalized so you could all pray for strength...I could see my W asking me to do that. You are fortunate to see your kids as much as you desire...I'm hoping for the same.
***There is no sign that she would want a reconciliation right now and I am not sure what the process should be and if I should be initiating this. It's hard for me to move on without knowing if this would be a possibility. We have been living apart for a year now so I am used to my own company and the new routine. Be great to know for sure as this would certainly help me change my mind set..but I'm no mind reader so I am stuck in limbo.***
If you read the book and the threads on here, and you desire to reconcile, you need to commit for the long haul. The D was just finalized, there are no signs of wanting to reconcile, why do you think you are in limbo? As everyone here says, let go...detach...GAL...what are your GAL activities besides throwing yourself into your work?
I don't really get out much. I see my friends on occasion and I love writing music at home. I am usually too shattered after a days work but I am planning on going to the gym more. I am involved with the kids a lot of the time which keeps me busy.
My ex W has recently asked if I want to go out to a psychic evening with her next month. Not sure weather this is just as friends hanging out or if she plans on it being a "Date" Not my usual idea of a fun night out but it's a start I guess. I can't be that bad if she wants to spend an evening with me although I am a bit sceptical about where this is all going.
excile101,
What's a "psychic evening"?
Hi Excile, you may feel in limbo, but I don't feel you are if your D has finalised. I think any feeling of limbo may be self-imposed by the contact you maintain with her. I would be tempted to leave her to her own devices more and make some nice plans for yourself...casually date a little if you feel you'd like to - you're a free agent now...
I'm not saying you'll never reconcile - who knows if you remain open to it, she may want to at some point - just don't put your own life on hold...go make plans...
I realise that I am a free agent now and I live my life, however uneventful, the way I want. I have thrown myself into my career and spend my free time with either friends or the children. I enjoy my own company and like to relax when I am home.
I am concerned though that any dating would close the door on my ex W. I think she might pull away and give up on the idea if she wasn't my first choice. The other problem has been her relying on me to have the kids and help her out which I am happy to do. As I mentioned before, she has been suggesting we go out together which is not dating as such but a start. Any third party involved would put a stop to that too.
It's a difficult situation to navigate as I cannot stop contact with her because of the kids and we enjoy our chats. There may be nothing else discussed at the moment but distancing myself would just make her pull away further.
Well I have got myself in a strange situation. I have an office girl that has a crush on me. We have been messaging for two weeks and I took her out last night on a date. She is only 19 years old and very attractive. I thought it would help my confidence and boost my ego, which it did at first but she just wants me to show her a good time and spend money on her. She finds my position in my job attractive and feels like a VIP. I have given her lots of compliments and I felt alive for a while. I now can see this was a big mistake and we have nothing in common except our job. It's all made me miss my ex W more as I know what kind of woman I would really want.
This girl is a welcome distraction from everything that has happened although I now need to think about ending it gently without to much fall out. If my ex found out, I doubt reconciliation would be an option.. What do you guys advise I do here?
Excile,
I am following your situation closely as the custody set up and ongoing involvement with the kids--good for you--is what I imagine in my near future?
Re the office girl? If you don't think it's the right thing to do, then let her down easy. Just tell her that you think she's great, but that you're not ready to date yet.
Hi Gordie
I agree that mediation may not be required if you still have a reasonable relationship with your stbx. It can be expensive and not essential if you can both agree to a fair custody arrangement.
I get to see my kids alot more than most people, but I am finding that although I love my girls and love to see them, my ex W tries to dump them on me when ever she sees fit. Not saying you should not be thankful, just that a you need to be able to make plans of your own from time to time. The other problem arises if and when the time comes that you or your ex wish to date again...the rules can suddenly change and arrangements need to be in place so that things remain fair. I am still hopeful of reconciliation some day so maybe I am more tolerant. Should that not happen, I know the situation could become more difficult.
Things do improve albeit slowly. I wish you luck.
I am concerned though that any dating would close the door on my ex W. I think she might pull away and give up on the idea if she wasn't my first choice. The other problem has been her relying on me to have the kids and help her out which I am happy to do. As I mentioned before, she has been suggesting we go out together which is not dating as such but a start. Any third party involved would put a stop to that too.
Until you stop being available to her.....and stop worrying that something you do could close the door to future reconciliation.....and stay away from her and act like you are divorced.....then you can expect to remain in this rut. She has never lost you, and she
uses you whenever she wants......and you have imprisoned yourself by your own way of thinking about this stitch.
She has the setup she wants. It works great for
her! Why should she change it?
Stay away from teenage girls and find someone your own age.
Well I have got myself in a strange situation. I have an office girl that has a crush on me. We have been messaging for two weeks and I took her out last night on a date. She is only 19 years old and very attractive. I thought it would help my confidence and boost my ego, which it did at first but she just wants me to show her a good time and spend money on her. She finds my position in my job attractive and feels like a VIP. I have given her lots of compliments and I felt alive for a while. I now can see this was a big mistake and we have nothing in common except our job. It's all made me miss my ex W more as I know what kind of woman I would really want.
This girl is a welcome distraction from everything that has happened although I now need to think about ending it gently without to much fall out. If my ex found out, I doubt reconciliation would be an option.. What do you guys advise I do here?
Oh dear. How old are you? Dating a 19 year old crossed your mind? Are you in your 20's? You even can see she wants a sugar daddy and you want attention. Is this healthy for YOU, let alone reconciliation?
I know its not right and I am cooling things off with her now. It was a welcome distraction and confidence boost but not a realitiy and she is definately too young for me however mature she comes across.
I have a bigger problem to deal with now though. The biggest reality check I have had since separating. My ex W has found someone else. I am in shock as I actually believed that we had a chance. Its early days as she has only been on a two dates, or so she tells me. I walked out when she admitted to it. I couldn't breathe. She called me later in the evening, drunk, to ask me why I thought that we could get back together after being divorced! I feel so stupid now. I played myself, really believing that there was hope because of the kids and house and that we were getting along ok.
I know I have to detach and would rather not see her again. She even suggested that we still go out together occasionally with the kids as nothing has changed and we are on good terms!
I can't see how that could ever work and I don't want to. I only kept a friendship with a view to a possible future together but with another guy on the scene I have to let go of her some how.I am now contemplating selling the house and moving to a different town. I don't know what else to do.
It's like my hopes have been shattered and I am facing a new beginning.
OK, where should I start? Has anyone had to deal with this kind of situation? I feel like this is day one..
have a bigger problem to deal with now though. The biggest reality check I have had since separating. My ex W has found someone else. I am in shock as I actually believed that we had a chance. Its early days as she has only been on a two dates, or so she tells me. I walked out when she admitted to it. I couldn't breathe. She called me later in the evening, drunk, to ask me why I thought that we could get back together after being divorced! I feel so stupid now. I played myself, really believing that there was hope because of the kids and house and that we were getting along ok.
I would imagine that this has been going on for much longer than what you believe. She's been on "two dates" early on? A hard lesson that I've learned was to believe nothing of what they say. One of the most bitter pills to swallow, my friend.