We have been Married for 20 years and I believe she has been having an affair for 8-10 years of it.
I found some pretty concrete evidence that she did it and confronted her, she denied it and tried to make lame excuses. It didn't work because I know for sure. She was out of town on a work conference and I believe he was there, I went there to find him/her but she wouldn't come out of her room saying she was scared. So I agreed to meet her in public so it gave her at least 40 minutes to clean up, I confronted her and she wouldn't admit
She did say she is willing to make this marriage work and agreed to counseling. She seems committed but I really can't believe anything she says. I feel alone, betrayed, scared, and confused. I still want to spend time searching for more evidence - which I think is pointless and a waste of time.
Just read through the 37 rules and will start living by them right now, some of them are hard to do at this stage but I will do it. Glad I found somewhere to go (this site) to help with the confusion and get some advice on how to move forward constructively. I want to save this marriage.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
We have been Married for 20 years and I believe she has been having an affair for 8-10 years of it.
I found some pretty concrete evidence that she did it and confronted her, she denied it and tried to make lame excuses. It didn't work because I know for sure. She was out of town on a work conference and I believe he was there, I went there to find him/her but she wouldn't come out of her room saying she was scared. So I agreed to meet her in public so it gave her at least 40 minutes to clean up, I confronted her and she wouldn't admit
She did say she is willing to make this marriage work and agreed to counseling. She seems committed but I really can't believe anything she says. I feel alone, betrayed, scared, and confused. I still want to spend time searching for more evidence - which I think is pointless and a waste of time.
Just read through the 37 rules and will start living by them right now, some of them are hard to do at this stage but I will do it. Glad I found somewhere to go (this site) to help with the confusion and get some advice on how to move forward constructively. I want to save this marriage.
1. I'm SORRY. This )($)^(*
2. Do NOT be overly communicative right now. Just tell her you need some time to think. You DO. Reassuring her would be the worst thing ever. If she's serious then you taking a few weeks to sort through your feelings won't sink the ship. But you being too eager to sweep this under the rug WILL. It will lead to her leading a double life, doing this again, etc. Be strong and back off.
3. This skipped from her 'not admitting' anything to 'wanting to make the M work'. Did she ever admit her A? If not I'd say there is nothing to discuss until she admits the truth, answers any and all questions you have, and commits to ending any such extramarital relationships immediately and permanently. If she's not willing then just tell her you have some decisions to make and go dark. Keep posting here, read up, get strong, and go SLOWLY.
coffee_, get the DR right away - and read it cover to cover as fast as you can absorb it.
Zues is right - withdraw and go dark, you've really got nothing to discuss at the moment. She's cake eating - and has all the benefits of both sides.
In the meantime, you've got some hard decisions to make. You've got to figure out a course of action based on possible ways she's going to go on this.
My W never admitted to her A (in fact, denying it), while also telling me it was none of my business. I too had all the proof I needed.
IF we ever got to a point of reconciliation, that would become a major hurdle I don't know if we could ever move past. Because, she's not going to give it up. She's put herself in such a position that it would be very hard to do that.
I've got to come to grips with moving on - and keep her damage to a minimum. She's trying to inflict as much pain as possible. Expect the same could happen.
You're in a good spot for the moment because she's at least discussing MC, and making things work. That's huge. You haven't been fired - and it's possible that her A is so shallow that it can be dropped and was momentary insanity.
Also consider a DB coach - this is exactly what they're perfect for and can help you make the right decisions moving forward. This is a critical time, and you seem to have the gift of time so use it wisely.
Thanks for the posts and all of the advice. I fear I have made some mistakes as this has unfolded. I think I can read through all of this information and will begin to do some of this stuff right away.
She has admitted to the A...without disclosing anything.
Today, before reading this again I have decided to go dark, I will read the information on that and begin to practice it. I have a therapy appointment today for myself so I think that will help a bit.
The hardest thing is she just wants to act like no big deal and not discuss this stuff, I guess that is why I need to GAL and go dark first and foremost.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thanks for that advice! I will take it! I wonder how I can get my hands on the book...as of now we are under the same roof and committed to making this work somehow. I will just have to devise a plan, perhaps a friend can order it for me.
I am guessing that this GAL thing takes some pretty serious practice. Right now, all I can think of is what "used to be" and that it really wasn't that at all. She has been hurting me like this many times. My heart jumps when the phone rings, buzzes, or a new email comes in. I have been married 20 years and this is all I know as life...[censored] man. I messed up as I suppose many people do and did the puppy dog thing, the needing to talk it out, my emotions are on a roller coaster, up and down. Thinking I need to know the whole truth, how many guys, with who, how extensive, is there still an A going on? So today is the first day of my GAL and go dark practice. It will be hard like I said, I know nothing else and have really never been alone. Thanks for all the advice on this site.
Well, I can almost be positive that it wasn't momentary insanity. I have caught her at least 3 other times, trying to develop some sort of A. This [censored] because the self confidence is so low right now,
I am guessing that this GAL thing takes some pretty serious practice.
Right now, all I can think of is what "used to be" and that it really wasn't that at all.
Yes it takes practice and work.
Time to learn new skills so you can move forward.
Also please stick to one thread until 100 posts.
Threads merged
Got it, I will stick with this thread.
I will take your advice about moving SLOWLY
Okay first real contact today, she texted and asked how my day has been. My response was "Going good, how is yours" Baby steps for detaching? I am done trying to pressure her into talking about this, after reading the threads and dusting myself off, it is liberating to know that I can just move on with our without her.
This is all so new to me, I usually never have to think about my every move, guess I should have.
GAL is tricky to get started...but worth it.
I was super hesitant to start moving my feet. I was a homebody, was afraid to disappoint my family / kids by missing out on their stuff, was not all that motivated to meet new people, wanted to save money (you see where this is going, I made tons of excuses to not go out and do). It was inertia and fear working against me.
In the last year alone I've ramped up my GAL to the point where I should have been all along, ENJOYING MY EXISTANCE on this this earth.
Some things that I've done, just in the last year:
Guitar Lessons for nearly 6 months, I use You-Tube now.
Swimming to get back into shape
Total gym visits 3/week for weights or cardio.
Coach 2 soccer teams last spring, one this past fall and this spring.
Gone to the shooting range 4 times (planning on 1/month with a few friends moving forward).
Joined a Roller Derby Team
Taking figure skating lessons (into level) to learn how to skate better
I have joined two new gaming groups (up to three now, usually once a month groups)
Went Kayaking bunch of times
Help with school sons activities & field trips
went fishing more in last year than the 10 previous combined including ice fishing, kayak fishing, river fishing and shore fishing.
Concerts at theaters / live music / dancing at local places
Got involved with school district on facility committee for building upgrade process
Have been to 9 different breweries in four different states
There was a ton of 1-off stuff too, like racquetball, rock climbing, paint nights, Book Club, writing seminar, country line dancing, fan boat tour through the glades...whatever I could think of that I've never done...that I wanted to do...I just said Eff-It and did it (I know there was more stuff, you get the point).
This sort of thing will get you more socially active, healthier, happier, more exciting, interesting AND MORE ATTRACTIVE.
Like I said, it took a really concerted effort to get my feet moving, but holy-hell once I did...I've not had as much fun by myself, with my kids or with my wife since we were kids.
It is something you CAN DO and it only takes a single step forward to get started...we have faith in you!!!
I am guessing that this GAL thing takes some pretty serious practice. Right now, all I can think of is what "used to be" and that it really wasn't that at all. She has been hurting me like this many times. My heart jumps when the phone rings, buzzes, or a new email comes in. I have been married 20 years and this is all I know as life...[censored] man. I messed up as I suppose many people do and did the puppy dog thing, the needing to talk it out, my emotions are on a roller coaster, up and down. Thinking I need to know the whole truth, how many guys, with who, how extensive, is there still an A going on? So today is the first day of my GAL and go dark practice. It will be hard like I said, I know nothing else and have really never been alone. Thanks for all the advice on this site.
Trust me, you're not the first. We've all been there and can relate to everything you wrote.
Hang in there man, be strong!
Thanks Z,
I would say that I had a life, based on your examples. So I guess the point is to continue my life? Maybe switch it up a bit or something. In the immediate time I need to Get my Life back...instead of following her around like a puppy. I also will be less of a doormat like I have these past 8 or 10 months. The other thing I need to do is stop concerning myself with what she has going on, at this point who cares. Just as long as the needs of my son are taken care of. Today I consider moving to the extra bedroom.
Okay first real contact today, she texted and asked how my day has been. My response was "Going good, how is yours" Baby steps for detaching? I am done trying to pressure her into talking about this, after reading the threads and dusting myself off, it is liberating to know that I can just move on with our without her.
coffee_, I so empathize with you - after 30 years of marriage and 35 years together - what was "automatic" needs some major rewiring. Heck, I'm moving tubes to solid state.
Zephyr has some good thoughts on what he did as far as finding a new life - and that's what you're on your way to doing.
IMHO, I wouldn't answer the texts at all - or certainly not all of them. Let's see what a vet has to say on the subject. The small talk stuff is only trying to drag you back in. It's hard for you to be aloof and mysterious if you're answering what time you shaved or if you took the pickle off of your hamburger.
As far as no longer being "we", I'm not sure when
I will break free of that. It will be more than mere months.
I just saw an artist I've loved forever (45 years?) - and and introduced to the W is going to be touring. In his band and by himself, I connect much of their music with "us". I haven't been able to listen to any of it since the BD. And, if I go see him - I buy one ticket? How sad is that? So, I don't go? If the W knew, she'd get 2 tix for herself and the OM - she's not bothered by such things. So, the W wins. Regardless. That's wrong.
As far as her A, what I have done to much success is get it out of my mind. 2 months ago I knew that the W and OM were going to have a week together (last week) in another state, starting with a stop at a hotel that's sort of place for much, much younger people (I'd be embarrassed to stay there). While I was in agony when I learned, I could not have cared less (well to some degree) now. I didn't think about it - fixate on it - it just is. I've got myself to worry about. And hope she had a lousy time.
Detaching is a major factor, and quite freeing. If I wanted to I could snoop - but why? It only causes pain. It's time consuming. In fact, the W is guilty of that and more - like she doesn't already have enough to do. I haven't bothered to look for almost 2 months - and eliminated all the things I signed up for, reminders etc. that would give me the slightest clue. All gone. Feels great!
I didn't see if you said anything about kids - we have none. But today I got pretty emotional about having not seen my dog for 2 months. That really hurts, and the W knows it. She'll punish the pooch to get to me, which is just wrong. If you've got kids, it seems to help a lot of people here. If not, then you've really got to concentrate even harder.
While I'm something of a prisoner as I'm the primary caretaker for my Mother at the moment - well GAL is not at all easy for me. I'm afraid to leave. I did get a new bicycle and get out and exercise as much as I can.
And, I did do a painting for a charity auction which was fantastic to do - and it's one of my best things for them. That should also tick off the WW, as it looks like she's not finished her piece yet, and we're 3 weeks past the deadline.
But - I've abandoned the hobby side of my profession, and need to get back into it. I'm letting people down by not testing equipment (manufacturers submit products to me) and writing reviews. Concentrating is hard. Very hard. So you might find those slightly more brainless activities a good place to start and then work your way up.
Roller Derby? Sounds like Zephyr is having
too much fun if you ask me! That could be a good way to burn off some of that anger too. It's probably been outlawed in CA now - but I sure do remember the Bay City Bombers so long ago!
Anyway, remember that the W needs to see you GAL. She will wonder just why you're having so much fun - without her(!?). How dare you!
Don't let her think you're waiting for texts, phone calls or email. If you feel compelled to answer - at least give it an hour or five. Otherwise - if you're answering as you used to, she knows she's still got you wrapped around her finger.
The GAL thing for me is difficult. I have had a life..totally I ride my bike regularly, go to the gym, have beers with friends, go to work functions, go fishing etc.. Possibly just naturally why she keeps coming back to me, we have had run-ins in the past like this, and I continue to move on and get a life. This evidence that I have recently uncovered is pretty incriminating, proving a true affair, the past it was quick clues that I shouldn't have ignored. So after finding it and confronting her, I have been a mess, an absolute mess! So it has only been a few days since I found it, just got done with a shrink (for myself).
So for me I need to sweep up my mess and get back on the horse, but a couple of things I need to add is to start going to Church, and to quit drinking beer and lose some weight, I have put on a few this last year and need to get rid of that.
We do have one son, so the texting and emails - I will only respond if it in regards to that, it is important to me that he gets the care he needs from his parents.
Do I quit saying love you? what if she says it first?
The other GAL action is not to care what she is doing, what her schedule is and where she is, when will she be home. I will just stop caring about that. For one I can't trust a word of it, so letting go will help with the heartache...
Jeez, this woman is bopping around the house and life like nothing big happened, it drives me nuts! Talk about needing to detach and GAL. She tried to kiss me this afternoon, I was reserved but did it. Now she is at "work" 2 hours later than she normally would be, after I picked up my son from her office at 5 o clock.......DETACH MAN DETACH!
Trying to reach 100 posts
Detaching is going well, she is wondering what the heck is going on with me.
Last night in bed she placed her leg across me, it felt nice to just "be" I miss her so much and this is the hardest thing I have had to do. This morning I find myself waiting for her to contact me, but really trying to ignore those feelings. Tough though. She still wants to act like nothing happened, which is fine but the detach method will help me to do the same until she comes completely clean.
When nothing has been resolved about the affair, I see her kissing you, saying ILY, or touching you in bed as her way of taking your relationship temperure. We call it temp checks. In other words, if she sees you caving to her suggestive touches, then she knows she is in control of the relationship. She is assured that she still has you emotionally. She is not worried that her bad behavior has sent you packing. She is not concerned that you find her unattractive and her behavior disgusting. She knows she holds you in the palm of her hand.
Actually, IMHO, when a W has had an affair, she should be very concerned that her wayward actions has caused her to lose her H. How much do you think your WW is worried about losing you? If all she has to do is throw a leg over you or give you a kiss......and then everything is pretty much back to the way it was before the A, she will not respect or value the MR and will continue cheating on her H.
After you confronted her about this 8-10 year affair, she admitted it. Did she apologize? Was she sorry for hurting you? Did she say it would stop immediately?
Was this the same man she has been seeing for 8-10 years? And, did I understand you correctly that she has tried to have three other affairs?
If she is a serial cheater, living in a MR with her will be extremely challenging. If she has been able to have affairs without any consequences for her actions, then she will continue doing it. Is this the first time she has ever been confronted about her unfaithful activity?
If she is a serial cheater, what would mean enough to her to cause her to stop? Has she ever sought therapy for her behavior? Did you do something to stop the other affairs? What is different this time?
Sandi,
I really don't have the whole story. Did she spill the beans, no. But indicated that it did happen and fears telling me about the A and details because it will always be "bigger in my head than it actually was". I have no confirmation that something is going on currently, just a gut feeling that made me start searching, which turned up some stuff from 7-8 years ago.
After I confronted her and she indicated that there was some truth to my suspicions, which took about 4 days to come to that conclusion, she did apologize, in an email the next morning that stated " I am sorry and I do love you" during the same conversation we established that we both care to keep the MR.
I really don't have all the answers but here is the history.
10 years ago I found some inappropriate emails to a guy in another state, planning a fantasy rendezvous. She was also hanging around another single guy with a couple of babys the same age as our son. I confronted her, and told the two guys to back off. End of story I think.
A bit after that I found a nasty text on her phone. She played it off as nothing. But it turns out this happened around the same time as what I have just recently uncovered, it was in the 08-09 years. This is what I believe to be one but maybe two guys. She thinks I only know of one right now.
A year ago I discovered some FB messages, to two different guys. One guy doesn't live anywhere near us, but the texts to him where in the fashion of, I miss you and when are you coming home. The message to the other guy, who does live here, and is someone she worked with in the past was a bit more disturbing. She had a work conference in D.C and the message was basically inviting him to come to D.C. for the weekend. He has access to cheap plane tickets. I confronted her, and we began to work on our MR. I wish I would have found this site back then.
Recently she has been very busy with her ailing father, but something in my gut was telling that her time away was not being spent as she has been indicating. She also showed up with a gift on her birthday, when I asked where it came from she said she won it at work. I called bullpucky on that. She retracted and told me that she stole them from a lost and found type deal.
So about a week after her Bday she heads to a work conference. The night she left I started seaking, I had a feeling that maybe she would be enjoying the company of someone else during her work conference. The conference was legit. So after I found the stuff the night she left, I drove 3 hours to her conference to confront her. She didn't come clean then but she knew that I knew. Before I left I was able to get into her room and found some lingere, and a boque of flowers, I asked her about that and she explained it away, but that night and well into the next day there was radio silence, no contact from her. I know what was going on, it hurts so much.
This was last week, we have been talking, sleeping in the same bed etc. Agreed on counseling. But she is acting like nothing happened and going about her life like not big deal. My work is failing, my mental state is completely bazzerk! Before I confronted her I made an apt to see a conseler for myself. I saw him yesterday and it helped to get this stuff including all of the other life stuff off my chest. Yesterday I asked her if she where to start a conversation about this when would she do it and how would she go about it. She was very defensive and said that she was very busy at work and probably not when I had a bunch of work to do. She apologized immediatly after that, but has yet to bring it up again. In an email today (which I havent responded to) she said
"How are you feeling?
What are you wanting/needing from me?
I don't want you to feel like I never want to talk about hard stuff...it's just difficult to begin sometimes."
I will respond in a couple of hours, but will use the detached method.
Just baby steps I guess, I want it fixed ASAP so I can move on but know it won't happen this way.
How does she normally interact with men? Let's say at party, does she get flirty? Does she thrive on the attention of other men? Take their compliments too seriously? Does she dress a little provocative?
How does she look at open marriages and affairs of other couples? Is your W a Christian? Not that it would prevent this behavior, but just wondering if it is a matter of loose morals or if something drives her to seek out other men.
I hope you will be very careful about having sex with her. Know what I mean?
Sandy,
She worked at a job with only women and was miserable. She changed jobs and that is when, what I believe to be soon after when she started another.
Not a big party gal, she parties but at home mostly. I am racking my brain here. She has always kind of seeks attention (casual) attention from men, yes. I wouldn't say she gets flirty in front of me. She dresses not provocative, conservative but very very nice, always done up, rarely wears jeans.
She is a Christian, so her views of open marriages are that of sin. She is opposed.
I will be careful having sex with her, that is shut down for quite some time.
In my honest opinion it is her drunk delinquent Father that drives her to do this. Of course there have been problems and I am no angel. I have never been unfaithful but I have said some pretty mean and hurtful things during arguments, usually after I have over undulged drinking alcohol. One of my 180's has been to quit drinking, it would be no good for me right now, I feel like it could slip into a problem if I drink, plus I need to keep a clear head at this time.
I have a question? Now that I am detaching, moving on with or without her... I think we still have a conversation coming. The ball is in her court right now as far as talking about the A (A's) Do I have that conversation?
If so I thought if she starts it I need to tell her this:
What I need from you right now is to be completely honest with me, you have nothing to lose, I am moving on with or without you. I need to know that if you are having an A currently that it has to stop now. You told me that you where willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work. Think long and hard about your answers and confession, I don't even want to hear it now, I can be patient..for only so long though.
Then leave it at that?
Coffee good for you recognizing a potential problem with drinking. You do not want to add to the issues you are dealing with right now. Have you demanded complete transparency? Have you suggested having only one FB account for the both of you? Remember transparency works both ways.
As far as mean things said, I suffered from that as well. I would let our problems build until I would burst. I also said some mean hurtful things, however, words are words and what the WW does is action. BTW I bet if you think back on it she probably has said just as many mean hurtful things. It does not make it right that we said them but shows also that we did not run out and cheat either. So do not beat yourself up about it.
Work on yourself and do not make any decisions out of emotion. I wish you the best of luck!
Thanks Tim.
No I haven't demanded transparency, this is new (less than a week). The last time I tried to talk to her she pushed way back. That was two days ago, so I went dark and detached, working on GAL. It is going well she has contacted me twice today and I have not responded. SO HARD NOT TO! AHHGGGHH but when I do it will be short and not much info.
She emailed 4 hours ago, and texted about a half hour ago. In an hour or so I will text back with a simple, oh yeah I did get your email, I have been busy at work catching up.
Also going to a work retirement party tonight, will be hard not to drink but I won't.
You may need to know that if she could bypass talking about it, she will. B/c it is much nicer for her if she sees the two of you picking up where you left off. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't work, but a lot of couples do it. Then later, they are right back into the same situation.
I suggest you give her little time to bring it up, and if she doesn't then you need to tell her that since she's willing to work on the MR, this is what you need from her. Don't misunderstand, you have your part of the work, but if she's been unfaithful, she is the one who needs to earn your trust and to be transparent about her activities. She will need to prove herself, and it is possible through transparency.
Transparency is when the unfaithful spouse accounts for her time, her emails and text messages by giving the faithful spouse full access whenever he chooses to look. He gives no warning as to his checking (b/c she will delete messages) and she never knows when he will look b/c it's not routine. She has no rights to any so-called privacy. The only reason a W would protest is b/c she has something to hide.
Transparency is to help her withdraw from the OM. If she works with him, it has to stop. All contact has to abruptly end. There is no tapering off an affair, and no "closure". No contact whatsoever is needed. She will have withdrawals, just as if it were any other addiction. Staying transparent will aid her in staying on the straight & narrow. It also helps you, obviously. It is a joint agreement, and if she won't do it.......then assume she is not cutting off contact with OM. She can whine and complain that you are treating her like a prisoner or trying to control her, but the bottom line is if she is earnest about saving the M, she'll do this. Otherwise, she is playing you for a fool. She might even agree and in the beginning and plan to keep everything deleted, but she will get careless when she sees you haven't checked in a while......and then the truth comes out.
You are the one calling the shots here, not her. And please know that you cannot trust her at this time. She is very vulnerable to increasing contact with the OM and may try to take an affair deeper underground. Which simply means she gets more creative at hiding it.
Thank you for your advice Sandi. She sent an email yesterday asking what I wanted/needed from her. I waited to respond until this morning.
But I told her I needed these things.
The truth about my current suspensions, and if that is true it has to stop now.
Total Transparency - suggested we will talk about this when it is time.
For her to tell me the entire truth about the other times.
She explained to me that it is difficult to start these hard conversations, she knows I put the ball in her court. So I also told her that she could simply write a letter, something that I read in front of her.
I am kicking myself but I told her to take her time and that I am working on my patience right now. But I did so as not to pressure her into another lie, I really hope that she gives full disclosure, but realize that I just cannot trust her right now. I had a good day yesterday not being at her beck-and-call. I will continue that until we start to get resolution. It is so hard because I have always jumped when she said to jump. That doesn't mean that in all situations I was a pushover.
It is so hard because I have always jumped when she said to jump
I believe this would be a great area to 180! The person who is saying, "Jump", is the one controlling the relationship. Personally, I don't think it is a good thing for a man to jump every time his W snaps her fingers. It is too easy for the respect level to get out of focus for her. Eventually, she begins talking down to him, or sound as if she is his parent. She becomes spoiled. She begins to sound as if she is giving orders, instead of making requests. Granted, some women are smart enough to disguise it, but still the husband's position becomes more subservient.
Thank you so much Sandi2. As you probably know my mind is racing above full capacity right now. I have never really thought I had to think about my every move or word said in my MR. I have made some mistakes on my end, working on my 180 right now.
Last night she snapped her fingers and I didn't jump, she didn't react really but didn't push it. It was quite liberating, she was angry/annoyed this morning I could tell. But didn't say a word about it.
Sorry to hijack, but thank you for saying that Sandi, I think it is advise I needed to hear moving forward whether it is with WW which I do not think it will be or just another relationship. I have always tried to be the man who would do anything to make his W or GF happy. Do anything to please them at the expense of myself and my own feelings. I think that is what really happened in my M.
Tim,
No problem. It doesn't help for sure to be the guy who she needs to jump when she says, it seems like it does but no.
In my case, my wife also hides behind the fact that she does so much for so many other people, so I think part of her reasoning and decision making to stray would be that. I can't know what is in her head, but if I had to guess it went something like this "I do so much good things for so many people and my H is xx (fill in the blank) I deserve this for myself.
Okay I need some advice please?
As I said above, I have responded to an email that she sent yesterday, I responded today to her questions about what she needs from me. Read above.
Like I said I told her that I can be patient. But I feel I shouldn't of.
I plan on asking her tonight if she read my email, regardles if she has or not I can explain that at the end of it I said I could be patient. However I think I should tell her that is the truth but her unwillingness to face this head on just plain looks bad..
Tell me if I am crazy to tell her this, I think I need to do that face to face so I will wait until tonight when the correct time presents itself. It could spur the conversation it could not, no expectations there but I think I need to get that off my chest.
Well, it has been a while since I have posted, I have discovered that she is texting some young stud that she met a year and a half ago, god knows whatever else she is doing with him. I also discovered another letter from another guy that she works with. I am not sure if this can work out. We are swapping back and forth living in the house, she made the calendar of who stays and when, she is in control. She is spending a ton of money, I have written her a letter saying that she is free to do whatever she wants, and I am just going to do the same. I only text when necessary, I think I am ready to tell her I want a divorce. She thinks we can keep doing this until the end of the month when we start staying in the house together again in separate bedrooms.
Not sure why my posts are getting no love on here. I am flopping like a fish out of water.
I am sure that my wife is still having an active affair, she is just driving it deeper underground. She wont admit to who Rob is... This is her A partner. She doesn't want to end the marraige but wants to continue doing what she is doing. I wonder if it is an exit affair, but just buying time? I wonder if she is trying to figure out if the M is worth giving up the OM? We talked yesterday and she says that she just cant see what "we" look like down the road a year, I said me neither. This morning she made me breakfast and gave me lunch then a big smooch on my way out the door. I have been avoiding physical contact but couldn't this morning. She is just temperature checking I am sure. Our 21st wedding anniversary is next week. I told her that I expect her to tell me the truth, and back it up with action. She showed some remorse yesterday, but not much. She said I just didn't see our lives going like this, I said what did you expect. I am lost as to what to do next. I need to figure out how to be "darker" I guess, because it does seem to be working somewhat. She still wants us both, she doesn't want to give up her family. After our anniversary I am thinking I will pretty much tell her that I want a divorce if I don't see any change or course of action on her part. We need to find some help to fix this because we can't do it on our own.
coffee_ - I hate to say it but you're going to need to take a stand here. If you continue along the path I was reading you'll need to accept that you have an open marriage if you want it to continue.
I don't know much about your household but if you have another room you may want to consider moving into it. I know most of the advice here is for the LBH to stay in the MBR but is sounds like your W is wearing the pants and wouldn't be shoved out. If you can't stand your ground where you are, you may need to stand on it somewhere else.
Cutting off the physical contact is also part of it. Every time she touches you I'm sure that it re-ignites a spark of something that keeps you connected to her. She needs to start feeling a loss of something that she doesn't respect.
In my own sitch it's been easier - my W moved out of the MBR on her own after BD and has avoided physical contact making it much easier for me to detach and be objective. You've got a much tougher road to travel.
Good luck man - you're going to need it.
Andrew,
I have been staying at my buddies house. She is wearing the pants for sure. When I do stay at the house I stay in the other bedroom anyways.
I need to make a stand for sure. Today I did a 180 and put my foot down. She is leaving town, I have a bad feeling about her motives, she says it is for work..yeah right. But anyways she was asking if I would watch a baby that we have been caring for the last two and a half years, while she was gone. I said no. She has used the baby to distract from the M, and used the time she was watching him and he was sleeping to spend time with the OM.
While she is gone I am moving back into the house and will refuse to leave.
We are going to have dinner on our anniversary next week, which is probably not a great thing to do I know. It is just very hard to detach. I am thinking that is the night I say that I am done with the M and we need to start the D process.
She knows that I know, and still continues to destroy our house. This in not the woman I knew..what the hell happened to her?
Coffee, one thing I think is important to understand is that all that really matters is actions, words are meaningless.
I've been a manager. With an engaged employee you don't have to do much to get the results you want. If they show up late they apologize. If you have to bring it up, they immediately take ownership and promise to fix the behavior. With a disengaged employee, however, it's totally different. They will minimize their issues, blame outside influences, point out how other people are late and they aren't held accountable, call it a stupid rule, there ought to be flex time, they get their job done anyway, they worked through lunch the other day, etc, etc, etc. My god, it makes you want to stab yourself in the leg. Point is Coffee, with those types of employees you can't just have a Mr. Beaver lecture about the importance of attendance, because they don't care what you say. The only option is to document what happened, give them disciplinary action, and then terminate if they don't change their behavior.
As a parent, it's nice to have a child that wants your approval, that wants to do well. If they get a bad grade they will apologize, fix it, and understand any punishment they get. But if a child is rebellious, if they are physically attacking you, breaking things, walking away and slamming the door to their bedroom and turning up their walkman (or whatever it is these days), trying to talk to them like Mr. Brady is just going to look pathetic. This is where you have to literally take the door off their bedroom because privacy is a privilege, throw away their walkman (or whatever), cancel their cell plan, and change your internet password so they can't be on social media.
Bottom line, if someone is openly rebellious words are WORSE than pointless, because they only show your reluctance to take action. Words say "I hope you change your behavior if I ask nicely because I am too much of a wimp to do anything about it".
But that's good news! If you're not very good about handling conflict, words would be difficult. I mean, if she starts talking back, attacking, etc, it might be hard to stick to your guns. But since words AREN'T important, she can back you off, get you to agree to things you don't agree to, and then later you can ACT according to your game plan anyway. If she says "I thought we agreed on this" you can say "I felt threatened and agreed to that out of duress, I am not ok with this, this is what I am going to do going forward..." Much better than saying something and not following through!
Here's the thing. You have to be willing to ACT.
As an employer you can't have an employee that you're afraid will quit, or they will run the show. That's why corporations go to great lengths to not depend too much on any one person.
As a parent you can't depend on your children to meet your emotional needs, either because you want to hang out like buddies, or because you need them to act lovingly towards you so you feel better about yourself. You have to be very detached.
So too with WW. I haven't read much. Just the fact that there was an OM is enough. To what degree, when, I don't care. If there's an OM and she's been disrespectful then she's a WW.
You don't need a big speech, you don't need to tell her how it's going to be. Just put the damn hammer down. ACT.
How to act? Easy. Let me ask you this: If you knew with 100% certainty that she was never going to recommit to the marriage, and that you would end up divorced...looking back from that man in the future, how would you like to see that you handled the situation? How long did you wait? Did you file and protect yourself or did you let a year go by and hope that she would come around? What did you need to do before you felt at peace with filing? My point is that whatever you do, do it because you feel it's appropriate for a man to do before terminating a marriage. And if you feel it's appropriate to terminate your marriage at this point then file with conviction.
I just reread your sitch.
If you go out for an anniversary with a woman that has had an 8 year affair this situation is of your making as much as hers.
If you have a car worth $5500-$6000 and someone offers you $50 bucks for it, and YOU choose to sell it...are they a bad person for making the offer, or are you a sap for taking it?
She is offering you an open marriage based on disrespect, betrayal, and lies. You are accepting. And then you come here and complain to us 'where did my W go?' Where did YOU go???
Look. I do get it. You might be depressed, dependent, you think you're worthless and somehow you need this woman or this marriage to make your life livable. This is pretty obvious, because unless you felt this way you wouldn't accept this. I do get it, I have felt a lot of this myself in my life.
I would say you can't go on like this, but you can. You can live like this another 20 years if you want, assuming she doesn't punt you first in which case you'll have to pick up your emotional pieces at some point anyway, so you can live like this and just pray that she keeps giving you scraps so you don't have to grow up and take care of your emotional self.
I hope that's not what you choose to do. I hope you can take ownership for this situation and make the decision today to be the man you know you can be. That doesn't mean controlling her, or threatening her, in fact it has NOTHING to do with HER at all. It just means taking control over your life, accepting you can't control her, deciding what you want your life to look like based on the assumption that she'll continue to act the way she's acting, getting the emotional and legal support you need from an attorney, a therapist, and close friends/family that are 100% loyal to you and discreet, and then making it happen.
I did it. Didn't want to, but the alternative was unacceptable to me. You can read my thread if you'd like, from 6/2014 to 9/6/2014 was a total trip, I'll never be the same after that. But I am a different person than I was then, so feel free to see what I went through and did and follow my lead. I didn't save my M, but that has nothing to do with me, that was XW's choice. What's important is what I had control over.
Hello Coffee,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Your wife is cake eating in a major way. She has the best of both worlds without any consequences. Sandi is right about her temperature checking the relationship. W wants to be sure you are still available as Plan B.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Good advice Andrew.
She is gone for 5 days. She left yesterday and has had little contact since she left. This will be a good time to move my stuff into the extra bedroom and to think about how I am going make her feel the loss. She seems to be vacillating between me and the OM.
This [censored], I don't want a divorce and she told me yesterday she doesn't either.
Why would you move your stuff out? Isn't she the one that wants space?
Shouldn't she be the one moving her things to the extra bedroom? You can even help her.
JimKao,
You are correct. But I have a high anxiety when in the MB anyways so I really don't care.
I am sitting at my desk at work obsessing again. I was able to let it go this morning but my workload is low so I cannot concentrate on anything else. My WW has spent 5 days away from home on the road "for work" My 21st wedding anniversary is tomorrow. We are trying to figure out staying in the same house together again after about a month, we have been swithcing so my S13 can stay at home. I sent her an email with questions and concerns about us staying in the same house, she said she would call last night but as expected she never did. She emailed back and said she was staying in a different town and said that we have some things to discuss obviously. I believe she is activly engaging in an A. I approached her about that before she left on Business but she denied accordingly due to my approach. I am working on GAL but I cannot sleep, so exercise has diminished. I can only pretend that I am doing that. I have done a ton of reading on detaching, and am only about 50% doing it. She still engages me but not too much really.
Just ranting about my feelings today, no one else wants to hear about it. This is the hardest thing that I have had to endure, I know it will get better but hanging in the fringes a MR is just about the worse thing a person can go through.
Hope other people are having a better Monday!
Zuess, I somehow missed your posts, thanks for this kick in the pants. I know what i need to do, just need to ACT like you say.
@christy I will call tomorrow to discuss. I need a coach.
Thank you all.
Crazy how days can me so up and down, I need to make a choice and make it with conviction just like you said Zuess.
Yesterday was our 21st anniversary, we did not see each other totally [censored] and hurting quite a bit today.
I thought you had left the board. Glad you decided to come back. Have you read everything in Cadet's first post?
Your WW has no worries about losing you. I don't think she worries about losing anything. You do not have to make it your mission to figure out what loss she must experience. What you need to do is set boundaries. If she dishonors your boundary, then you do some type of action that gives her the message that she crossed the line and that you will not tolerate it.
Do you have boundaries? Are you willing to compromise your values, integrity, spiritual beliefs, etc., just to stay under the same roof with her? Where do you draw the line?
Never tell a Wayward wife that you can be patient and wait for her to be open and truthful about her activities. Maybe you've learned not to take that route.
She is the unfaithful spouse. She has cheated for maybe ten years, that you know. If this has been the same man all these years.....it is going to take you being extra strong and applying tough love. She has gotten away doing anything she wants and not having to be accountable. What will be different this time, Coffee? It all depends on you.
Yes Sandi, I have been reading that stuff over and over. I am learning to set boundaries. I am working on making a plan for myself as this stuff seems so simple when I read it and then I start to implement and it is so complicated.
She has had several A's over the last 10 years, 3 that I know of. No disclosure on how long 2 of them lasted.
I have never told her that I can be patient, nor have my actions or questions shown her that, however she still keeps looking for that from me. She seems to be slowly showing me regret and sorrow, I am cautious of course, says she is willing to work on the M and is seeking IC. This has all happened in the last 3 days. I have told her that I am not interested in an open relationship.
I have now gone dark, doing my 180s, and detaching. It seems to be working but time will tell. I will need to see action soon.
We are so uncomfortable around each other right now, which is good I guess.
Headed to S13 Band concert in a bit, keeping head up, looking good, content, confident. Remembering the Sandi's rules.
Well, I made it through the concert, only a small backslide. She was wanting to leave, and suggested I could go, probably so she could text the OM, or leave or something, I dunno. I told her she could go if she wanted, but to her it sounded bossy and she said, stop bossing me around. The signs are so obvious that she is distracted it is painful. I am working on the detachment but it is the hardest part of this thing. I left to work after and said I would be home in an hour or so. I saw a text on her phone, she slid it out of the way and made a big sigh, I will not say anything to her and act as if I don't care. I figure the more I do that the more I really don't care.
I wonder why some posts get more love than others? I am getting weary of my situation, but will keep it up I feel I am getting better every day, but realize there will still be ups and downs.
I'm reading coffee. I'm just not sure what you're expecting to have happen.
She SAID she was willing to work on the M at one point. She is ACTING impatient, disgusted, irritable, and manipulative (manipulative by calling you controlling, which Sandi points out is a WW's rebuttal when the betrayed party expresses valid concerns about her texting privately after a series of affairs, and manipulative by acting remorseful or throwing you crumbs and empty promises to keep you stringing along so she doesn't experience consequences for her behaviors).
What ACTIONS have you seen that she has taken to show a commitment to restoring a marriage and rebuild your trust?
If you are willing to live in an open marriage and be shat on indefinitely as long as she says sorry once in a while, what do you expect to change?
The only way something will change is if SHE changes or if YOU change. You can either stand there and hope that she changes, or you can change.
I respect that you are trying to change by DBing, and doing what you can to detach. But from my view it still looks like you're hoping that this helps her 'come around', and the reality is you have all of your eggs in the basket that she will. And unfortunately there is a non-zero percent chance that she won't.
My question to you remains the same. If you knew for certain that there was zero chance she would ever change this behavior, what would you do? How long would you remain in this situation? What would you do when you hit your limit? How many weeks, months, or years would have to go by before you had enough? Or would you live like this forever hoping she wouldn't leave you and you could preserve this 'marriage'?
Hard questions, but they are the ones you need to ask yourself. This day by day monitoring of her acts and manipulation and reevaluating the chances this will work itself out is a cheeseless tunnel. I was hoping you'd read my old threads as I mentioned so you could learn from my mistakes. I've been down that road my friend, no cheese at all.
Hang in and keep posting.
Zuess, yep your right! I can hang here and take it or change for real. So hard when lives are intertwined...or so I thought it helps to read here and see others have my struggles. She is textbook WW. Just hard to believe still for some reason. I can change, she did, the minute I exposed my knowledge of her affair. Huge backslide tonight, all the reading in the world is not helping me right now. I just can't stop with the attacks, I am calm but still just keep on with criticism of her actions. Not helping and pushing her further away. It doesn't make me feel better. She traps me and I bite every time.
I am of the belief that divorce busting doesn't happen for at least 90 days after BD.
We can try to detach. We can try to follow the rules. But we are deeply in denial, desperate to have things go 'back to normal', and we are in emotional hell.
Eventually something will happen that will shatter the denial. In my case it was very profound and life changing. After that everything was different. And while I still suffered and struggled, it was clear to me that I was on my own and I started moving forward and accepting my new life.
It's like an addict hitting rock bottom. Something happens so horrible you can't live that way anymore.
LBS's are like addicts to WAS's. They try to manage the addiction, to control it, to find a way to keep it alive. Then things get worse and worse until finally one day they realize it has to stop. That's when true DBing begins.
I'm not making fun of you, minimizing your efforts, or anything. They are all part of the process. And when you hit rock bottom you'll be much better prepared because of the tools and habits you are building now. And maybe you'll bottom out sooner if you keep challenging yourself as you have been. All good stuff.
BD1 is hard, it can't get any worse. BD2 (when you accept BD) is just as hard, but you'll be better prepared. Read Painter's thread as an example, she BD'd for two years and just hit her 'BD2'. I don't want you to wait two years. Please keep challenging yourself. You'll get there coffee.
Zuess,
It would almost be easier if she would just leave or give me the BD and say I am leaving you. Yesterday she said that I deserve someone that doesn't dissapoint me.
I have decided based on your post to not remain in this situation. I have some pretty big stuff to think about but I am thinking that to change my situation I will have to tell her that it is time for a D. In some respect because it will be a wake up call for her, I get it, I cant expect her to come around based on my actions. I need to change so that I can have a healthy life moving forward from this toxic situation. This will also be better in the long run form my S13. Got up and rode my bike this morning, it feels good getting back to the life that I had before I have been consumed by my W and her A's. She spent the afternoon with the OM, I am sure of it. It is crazy how the script just seems to match everybodies stich. My sitch is no different, just different people involved.
Hope everyone has a good Memorial day! I am doing my best to just be me.
Thanks for sticking with me Zuess, you are a huge help!
coffee, ordinarily I would caution from jumping right to a D from standing around and pining. But in your case, with 8 years of infidelity, I don't think that's an entirely inappropriate response.
But there's one thing I would STRONGLY recommend:
I am thinking that to change my situation I will have to tell her that it is time for a D.
Wrong. Don't "tell her" it is time for a D. Please reread my post about actions vs. words.
Words are weak.
Actions are strong.
Instead of telling her, simply meet with a divorce attorney. Have a consult. Find out what the next steps are.
Then when you have to communicate, you can tell her "As you know I'm not willing to live in an open M. For this reason it's time to take some steps towards separating our lives. I want you to know that I met with a divorce attorney. He recommended that we immediately separate finances, so I have opened an individual bank account, and deducted 50% of the funds from our joint account excluding June bills into it. There will be more to work through in terms of parental time, assets, and living arrangements, but that can wait until we both have representation. I haven't filed anything yet but I will let you know when to expect the paperwork as I'd like to keep things professional with no surprises."
Then if she tries manipulating you, crying, begging, pleading, or spewing, blaming, or getting physical, you can simply remove yourself from the situation, avoid an argument, and tell her you'll hear whatever she has to say and give it thought...but NOT stop the steps you're taking.
If you just 'tell her' you're going to file D, she will likely not believe you, and very well may find a way to string you along and give you enough false hope to stall you indefinitely. I've seen it too many times. Particularly if you're desperately hoping she 'wakes up' so you don't have to follow through.
When can you meet with an L for a free consult? Do you already have finances separated?
I'd add that when you 'tell her', you are looking for a reaction and she knows it.
When you act, you demonstrate that you are simply moving towards divorce and no longer care about her reaction.
Great advice, I have already met with an attorney it wasn't free and it was not great advise, she knows I went. Up until now I didn't do anything else, but told her that he had great advise. But I am going to contact one tomorrow as I have gotten a name of a very good one here in town. Zuess, yes it has been about 8 years that I know of. Different dudes, etc. I uncovered some attempts 10 years ago and put the kabosh on that. Of course when I bring it up she always says,,,,see you just wont ever be able to let this go will you, speaking of our current situation. I am not sure I have any other option at this point. I have not separated any of the finances yet, my work is slow and hoping I don't get laid off because my concentration level has been low. A couple of people there are aware of my situation but I could lose my job soon. I am in a tight situation. I do have some back up $$.
Perfect. Keep going.
I like the "you won't ever be able to let this go will you" line. I think I'd probably reply one time with a laughing "I guess we'll never know, I never had the chance to try because you never stopped". Then I would never even entertain that statement with a reply again. It's like watching an interview of Charles Mansen on death row, he can talk for hours about religion and spirituality and the problems in society, and if you try hard you can almost overlook the fact that he killed a bunch of people. Craziness. And just like in his case imprisonment and death was the only option, when you have an individual that will commit serial adultery and then get nasty with you for not handling it the way she thinks you ought to...well, nothing to do but cut bait.
And no need to bring it up any more either. I hate to be negative but I seriously doubt this is going to change. It's been too much of her life for too long. Not to say it's impossible, but you certainly don't want to bet your well being on it. It's far more likely this is how she'll continue for the next 10 years as well.
Point is if she ever asks "is this what you want" or "is it too late", don't take the bait. She isn't seriously interested in R. If she ever temp checks you I'd just say "I'm not having this conversation." That's it. No more explanations. No more "I won't be in an open marriage". No more "I'd need a transparency plan". Nothing. Just don't have the conversation. Unless the conversation starts with her begging forgiveness and swearing to make it right, it's not worth having, and it's certainly not worth having if you have to tell her what words to say to string you along.
Sorry, I'm worked up just reading it. I'm not too pleased with your STBXW.
But the hard news is that it will still destroy your life. D is so brutal. Perpetrator or victim, divorce is the most destructive thing I've ever imagined. As bad as betrayal is, not having your partner to be hurt by is even worse. AT FIRST. But I swear to you it gets easier.
For those who wonder how it feels 2 years down the road, all I can say is that I never wanted D, it is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. It is painful beyond description. BUT. I can handle it. It doesn't define my life. It's one of those things I don't like, but can deal with. You can get there coffee, and whether you ever partner up again or not, there is no comfort to be found in the status quo.
Coffee,
I am sorry you are going through all this. I just read the last two pages of your thread. Don't know how you lasted this long.
Zues has given some good advice. I am praying for you to be strong.
Dang it! good day of DBing, Zuess I know your thoughts on this, but I am less DBing and more moving on and being happy with my day. I saw a dr and he gave me some AD medicine. It is really starting to work I think. That coupled with a bike ride and some sun, hanging out with my son and helping him with a school project. But here is the kicker Tonight from the back room W asks if I was bike riding tomorrow, I said not sure yet, then mumble mumble... so I asked later because I didn't want to yell across the house. She was asking me to lunch, I immediatly say yeah we can do that. Well shoot I missed the mark, I can recognize this as a temperature check next time. I will be really busy tomorrow for sure.
No issues.
First of all it is a process, you're not where you will be in 90 days or 365 days, but you get there by striving little by little.
Second, it doesn't really matter if you 'backslide' in front of her, because when you truly don't care what she thinks about you then you stop caring if she sees you're still conflicted. This isn't a game anymore. It's a man that's filing a divorce he didn't want, but has to pursue. Of course you're going to show the same regret as a man taking his sick dog to the vet. Who cares?
Third, there is no reason you couldn't play it off if you wanted. Like "I thought we had a lot of logistical things to discuss", and "While I'm not interested in a close friendship, I do want to proceed with mutual goodwill and be effective coparents", that kind of thing. No reason you have to act like you are trying to date her.
Just my initial thoughts. Don't sweat it. You'll get where you're going.
Went to lunch today, acting like nothing happened...same crap different day. Said she would be home in a bit tonight, then no text saying otherwise, blah blah blah. How does it go, not my circus not my monkeys.
Went to lunch today, acting like nothing happened...same crap different day. Said she would be home in a bit tonight, then no text saying otherwise, blah blah blah. How does it go, not my circus not my monkeys.
I would venture to say she doesn't stay up nights worrying that she may actually lose you. I'm not saying this to punch you in the gut, Coffee. She is a
serial cheater. Not much else really needs to be added.
I really appreciate Zues talking straight with you, b/c men can relate to each other and use less words doing it.
Do you know the person who really has the WW's playbook (beside another WW)? The man who learned well from her bad treatment.
Sandi,
I agree with you whole completely. Nothing more I can say about that. I am working on me now, doing my best to disconnect and stop engaging in the little scraps she is throwing at me. Working on my relationship with my son. And detaching from what I thought I have known to be my life for so long. Even now I wonder where she is. She is out of town again on buisness, she said she would call in a bit but I haven't heard from her. Trying my best to remember she could care less about me and what I have going on. Hard to fathom and I am still in true disbelief. I have come to the realization that she is crapping on my on purpose to get me to call for the D. Guess I just have to do it and move on. My fear is that she wants me to do that so I look like the bad guy, and I am trying to figure out if I can protect myself from that the best I can. Not sure it will really matter in years to come, that part will fizzle in time. I need to be happy in life and this isn't doing it for me.
Thanks again Sandi you have true words of wisdom.
My fear is that she wants me to do that so I look like the bad guy, and I am trying to figure out if I can protect myself from that the best I can.
Why do you fear being seen as the bad guy? I am not trying minimize your concerns by asking this question. I do believe it part of the makeup in a nice-guy H. Maybe you should examine that question a little deeper, b/c I bet you have been this way (not wanting to be seen as the bad guy in any situation) for a very long.
Agreed 100% with Sandi.
I have always been a pretty strong person in other parts of my life. So strong, that in my R I was always very cautious of taking charge or being assertive because I didn't want to bulldoze XW. Similar to how a large man might be careful not to hurt someone half his size.
But it went beyond caution, to neurosis. I began to measure my worth and even define my identity by how XW viewed me. And because of this she was able to manipulate and control me. The problem wasn't only that she was able to push me around and that I enabled some negative choices, it's also that she lost respect for me and didn't see me as the man I truly am.
In a way I kept expecting her to recognize how stupendous I was at a man, while simultaneously being appreciative of how sensitive I was considering my prowess. Yet instead she just took my extreme sensitivity as weakness and developed contempt for me. The irony is that in the end she felt that my inability to protect her or take a leadership role in the family was 'abusive'. So in the end I received a failing grade from her anyway, no matter how hard I tried.
These days I've made peace with who I am. I no longer care how XW views me. I get that I'm the villain in her personal narrative. I mean, how else can she spin things to justify the destructive decisions she made? I realize that her spew and nastiness and disdain towards me is based on the story she tells herself, and doesn't reflect reality or my self image.
One thing I'd recommend that DOES help get to this point, is PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. I had an IC, a DB Coach, and a L. Essentially a team of professionals that had seen this all hundreds of times. Before I did anything major I consulted this powerhouse team.
This helped because if all three of them told me I had to do A/B/C (separate finances, get my own place, draw a boundary around a certain issue, etc), I knew it was endorsed by my team. If XW spewed and twisted that into proof I was an abusive piece of garbage, I was able to let it bounce off me much easier because I didn't make the decision alone. In fact, it was laughable because I basically followed the lead of this team for the last 2 years, so if XW spewed at me, she was basically saying that my counselors and lawyers were being abusive which is clearly laughable. In the end I will never have regrets about the way I handled things or doubt that I was more than reasonable. And this helped me detach from her and reassert control over my self identity.
Who is on your team?
Right now my team is an IC, an MD and my close knit friend group. However I have distanced my problems from my friends. They don't need my problems in their life. So next will be a L.
I like that advice Zuess, just need to build my team and get cracking.
No news, just posting to keep in touch with my forum team. Wanted to say thanks to Sandi and Zuess for the tough words that need to be said. Zuess I am halfway through your sitch, lots to read there and also lots to learn from it. I am starting to really be detached from my old relationship with my STBXW, my mouth makes this smile thing again. Went to the lake and hung out with a friend and made some new friends last night, which was good for me. Today worked on being a good dad to my S13. And gave myself some time to ride my mountain bike. So far so good I think. My mind still does wander (just like you Zuess) and starts to wonder if my M can be saved and she will come back to me. Mostly because she is still cake eating a bit. I know this will probably never reconcile. She wants nothing to do with the M and could give two SH**&S about me being her H. Working out a plan in my head to pay for L and will make some calls on Monday to get an apt with one.
Thanks again you two!
Good job. Thank you for the update.
Emotions don't follow a linear path. There is a lot of adversity ahead. But you can handle it.
My IC once said people aren't afraid of bad things happening. They're afraid of the emotions they will feel if those bad things happen, and that they won't be able to handle it.
As I've gotten through this I've learned I can handle almost anything. Doesn't mean I want to, but I know I can. Amazingly that means I don't have to live in fear anymore. I can strive for what I want freely without feeling anxious about what might happen.
You can do this.
As I've gotten through this I've learned I can handle almost anything. Doesn't mean I want to, but I know I can. Amazingly that means I don't have to live in fear anymore. I can strive for what I want freely without feeling anxious about what might happen.
Zues126,
Totally agree! Three thumbs up! (I have a third arm growing out of my back.)
Zuess, thanks again for the vote of confidence. For some reason today I am feeling anxious and nervous. I have made myself a list of things to do. Including contacting lawyer, open checking account. It makes it feel more real. I notice her drifting away more within the last couple days also. Possibly she is seeing that I am giving less to trying to make it work etc. Going dark, detaching etc. I really like your posts about redefining your R with your XW. We will have to parent our son for the next 5 years, and work together during the D. I think we have had a good R for the past 21 years, but lets face it, D will bring out the worst in people. I want to be the best I can, but not sacrifice the things I worked for so hard, retirement, good credit. It could all go south, but I will have to rebuild no matter what. Yes the fear of that thought is getting to me today I guess. But I too know that I can do this, and learn to handle almost anything.
Thanks again for the support you guys, I really need it.
"I can strive for what I want freely without feeling anxious about what might happen."
I really like what you said here Zuess. I can't wait to feel this way again. Going on 3 months where I just am unsure of myself, times of low self esteem, and scared of what my future holds. I am no longer afraid of my future, I never know what it held anyways. I will trudge through this mess, try to avoid the circus acts as much as possible, and ignore my STBXW when she is out doing her "thing"
I am sick of the shenanigans, ready for my future, and done with being in limbo. I still ask myself "why is this happening to me" but then my answer is because she is a selfish you know what. So weird to watch the transformation, or what seems to be a transformation. Now that the A's are out in the open she couldn't care less about our M. I just have to realize that, and know that some day the fog will lift and she will realize that she handled this situation completely wrong.
If the fog never lifts, well she will live a life of lies and deceptive ways and have to answer Him, I pray she figures it out before that and asks for forgiveness.
Here I am typing all this and still in the back of my mind there is a spec of hope...just a spec though.
I do have my ups and downs, and will for a long time I suppose but this site has really opened my eyes as to how common my sitc is and I am no different. Amazing to me that 50% of M's end in D, and 50% of M women cheat, just as much as men. I have a little different situation because my STBXW is a serial cheater, which is just a shock to my system. I do look at her and realize she is not the girl I M'd. Makes me sad but it is what it is I guess.
Yeah, it's gross. It's one of those things that isn't ok, but that's ok. If you know what I mean. Like it's horrible beyond comprehension...but then you just shrug and keep moving and be appreciative for what you have.
The spec of hope isn't hope, that's the spec of weakness that wants an easy way out of the pain. Just realize it isn't coming from a place of love, commitment, or anything like that. It's just weakness. No need to have hope, keep moving and what will be will be.
As for being tired of limbo...life is limbo. Anytime we think anything differently it's because we are counting on a future that's not guaranteed. Like you weren't in limbo prior to BD, because you knew you would be married for the rest of your life. Oh, wait...
Bottom line, no better time to relax and live for the moment. That doesn't mean snorting coke and listening to the bee gees (although it may), but just being the best man every day you can be as you move forward.
Thanks for the updates.
Just a really quick note on the coparenting... It won't end in 5 years. You will coparent for the rest of your lives.
Zuess, I will def not listen to the bee jees! Ha! Your words are full of wisdom, especially the words about the spec...so true, just fear, that emotion that we guys don't have.........just kidding right? We just don't recognize it as such and explain it away as something else.
Making a plan, building my team and even though I don't know what the future holds, I envision what I want in it.. Because we have to strive for something.
Yeah I will be connected to this woman for a long time, I have wondered if my son is of my blood for a long time, but at this point I am his dad no matter what. Doesn't matter. I feel like a friggen jerry springer episode some days! So weird because I am mostly just a normal American... Even though I forgot to vote today.
well nothing really new to post. It seems like she is warming up and then, BAM she cools right off. I have not really brought up any R talks but she did yesterday. I asked her what kind of person when caught having an affair continues another inappropriate relationship while we are dealing with the other.
I answered myself to her saying not the girl I married.
I still have hope, is it really weakness? Is this M destined for D? It is such a hard decision to make for me. I am trying to get a good 1000 foot view of things before I make it.
I continue to work on myself, backsliding a bit. I got drunk 2 nights in a row at a work conference and blabbed my problems more than I should have. I sounded like a little weak boy, a victim. I hate feeling this way and today I am just down. I miss my best friend, yes she shat on me, I am disconnected more now than ever but I vacillate back and forth.
I have an appointment with a L this Wednesday. It will make my situation feel more real.
I hope all had a good Monday.
Okay, new stuff.
I watched her leave work with the OM, they spent some time in the parking lot together. I didn't see anything go on per say, but they where definatly spending time with each other. I confronted her on the phone, she denied it. She said she was helping him with an upcoming interview that he had. I texted while they where hanging out, as soon as both of thier vehicles drove off she immediately texted me back. During the confrontation on the phone she admitted to the affair. While I was on the phone with her I drove to the OM's house and told her we should all just talk this out together. I knocked on the door and he wouldn't come out, I talked through the screen that was open and asked him to come out and we could talk like men. Of course he wouldn't. So I just left. I have an appointment with my L this afternoon. This is me playing hardball. I guess I have just been waiting to confirm something like seeing her with him before I really broke this thing loose. I did not want this divorce, but it seems pretty imminent. Feeling pretty crappy about that but it is what it is now.
Hey so sorry your going through this.
Keep posting and don't make any big changes until you know what your plan is.
I knocked on the door and he wouldn't come out, I talked through the screen that was open and asked him to come out and we could talk like men. Of course he wouldn't. So I just left. I have an appointment with my L this afternoon. This is me playing hardball.
coffee_,
I don't know if that's DB or not, but I like it! Kick @ss and take names. Good for you!
I quit DBing, she is so far gone, tonight she told me that my actions made her like the OM more, still not admitting to the A, so she will be a divorced 43 year old dating a guy she works with...I wonder what will happen when they figure out they can't trust each other....[censored] but it just has to be over. I probably made poor choices last night. But I needed to know the final piece of the puzzle for sure.
Met with the L today, going to get the ball rolling...
coffee...it's all good bro. I have no problem with what you did last night. If it helps you get closure and start to detach then I'm fine with it.
What a serial adulterer thinks of how you handle her family destroying infidelity doesn't matter to me, any more than a 3 year old that screams how much they hate you because you didn't buy them the ice cream cone they wanted at McDonalds.
It's all about you here coffee. I still think what you do matters, but for YOU. When you do your best to live the way you think a man should every day, it just makes it easier to shrug off the spew and insanity she hurls at you. So please keep DBing in terms of detaching, growing (180s), GAL (finding new ways to meet your emotional needs), and finding your own happiness. DBing is all about you anyway, whether or not she wants to tango doesn't matter, and for your sake I'm glad this woman doesn't want to because she is very bad news.
Please keep posting c. The next year will be difficult, but if you play your cards right you will find happiness and contentment that you didn't believe you'd ever have in your life. I am there. I didn't think it was possible with my marriage ending, but I've learned the secret. I've become appreciative day by day of what I do have. My loss forced me to learn to let go and be happy with reality, because it finally got through my thick skull that life doesn't give you what you want, so you have to learn to want what you get.
Talk soon.
Good to hear from you Z!
I really like what you write, I strive to be in your position some day.
Yes I agree that what I did was necessary, yes it P'd her off. Did I care? No, I shrugged it off. She said to me that my actions are "putting the idea in her head" Like I said she is not admitting to the A but right there she did. I told her that my actions couldn't do that, not my fault...and it is called free will. She had no comeback. She is still P'd this morning. Funny that she will only talk to me about things that she is mad about, but not things that she has done to destroy our home. Her head is in the fog. I am learning more and more about her each day, hour, minute. She is protecting herself, at the expense of our home. Amazing to me...sick really.
So yes Zuess this is about me, it will be a tough year with ups and downs. My future is uncertain, but you have helped me to realize it always has been.
I am making a list, small achievable goals. Preparing for the D. But also giving less thought about her and more thought about me. I will miss what I had, regret staying so long. But I will let this experience teach me things that I never knew about myself.
My L is awesome, expensive and a pitbull. I feel I found a good one.
I thing I am at the acceptance stage right now, moving back and forth from this stage. I really am working at accepting what is happening in my life. I think it will also help me move on. Other stages prior where just keeping me stuck, although I move backwards into the why stage, and for some stupid reason still hitting the denial button. But up until I actually saw her with him I really couldn't move on.
The D will take quite a bit of my time but I am back to GAL, trying to spend time with my friends without discussing my M problems.
Working on being the best father I can to my S13, we have a good relationship but I know I can do better. Looking for other ways to 180 but that takes some serious looking in the mirror.
I have a good support system, funny how many people I know went through this, I guess those facts where known, but you really don't understand until you go through personally.
I do have compassion for my STBXW, I feel her life will be more of the same WO me, but maybe not, maybe I held her back also for 21yrs. Everything happens for a reason, even 21yrs of M...It is His plan, placing my faith that He will make this wrong a right.
Zuess, thanks again for checking in, your words mean a lot to me, I thought maybe you bailed.
Happy Thursday all.
Just got an email, she is trying to reel me back in.
It will be hard to deliver her the consequences but I understand now that is must be done to protect me. My emotions and well being are too valuable to live this way for much longer, prolonging will only weaken my spirit more, it will make it harder to move on. And it will make it more difficult to maybe find a new mate someday (not that I am thinking that will happen soon). I need to find myself, as an individual and really sort out what I am looking for in that person before I let my guard down again.
It helped me to think of my WW as a drug addict. For two reasons.
1) It was easy not to take it as personally. To have your life partner choose another man over you burns the soul. To watch someone addicted to meth leave their marriage and move into a flophouse where they can shoot up every night, well, it's easier to look at that objectively and compassionately and just understand she has an addiction and is powerless over it.
2) It makes it easier to set firm boundaries. When you think of her as your wife, lover, and life partner, and she is appealing to your emotions, it's hard not to be impacted. When you think of her as an addict that is simply saying whatever they need to say to try to enable the continuation of their addiction, it's easier to disengage and stick to the road you know you need to take.
Maybe it would be a better example to describe her as a gambling addict. A gambling addict will burn through your bank account, your 401K, your assets, and your credit lines if you let them. Well, a WW will burn through the 21 years of emotional good will she has built up. She will manipulate and use you and use you until either 1) you are emotionally bankrupt, or 2) you remove her as an authorized signer from your emotional account. This is why detaching is so critical.
Hopefully this helps you in your process of detaching the way it did me. It is time to cut her off, not to apply consequences, not to try to teach her a lesson, and certainly not to try to get her to hit rock bottom and come out of her fog (although if any of this helps her journey then as compassionate people of course we want that for her). But simply because I don't want you going along for a ride with her.
Remember, you can't expect her to let go of her addiction to OM if you can't let go of your addiction to her. Lead by example. Walk the walk. Detach. Go your own way. Be there for yourself. You have to fight your own battles now. She can't save you from your battles, and you can't save her from hers.
Keep posting.
A wonderful analogy Zues, perfectly described and so apt. Hope you're well.
Jellyxxx
Yes I am. Thanks JB. Bedtime here but will talk soon. Glad to know you're there.
Stay strong. Don't fall for what she pulls out of her bag of tricks.
Zuess,
Thank you. I haven't mentioned it because I am ashamed but she is also "using" with the OM I think. I found some evidence of it and have been watching her "ups and downs" for the last 5 months.
So #1 speaks volumes to me, she would have 2 addictions to recover from to get her head out of the fog and her butt out of the weeds.
I really like your posts, they are so helpful.
Doing paper work today and getting my ducks in a row to be on the offense when the time comes to BD on her. This is for me, I am done with her financial and emotional withdraws from my bank.
Spending some time with my ailing father in another town this weekend, then back on fathers day to hang with my S13. Detaching by the minute, seeing her for who she really is. She is my STBXW
Had a good weekend with my family (out of town). My friend was there and we whooped it up on Friday night, it felt good to just be me for a bit. I am detaching by the minute.
My STBXW decided she was spending this week out at her mothers, who is on vacation. She also decided that she was keeping S13 with her also. She failed to tell me that and my S13 told me yesterday they where doing that. He felt bad because they where leaving me alone all week and felt obligated to tell me that was the plan.
I just saw her and told her not to put him in that position, she needs to communicate that to me before she makes plans like that. For one I was taken off guard (even though I tried not to show it) when S13 told me, he probably sensed that. This is going to be a long year. I haven't told her that I spoke with a L yet, she puts up walls and avoids any real conversation. I told her we should have lunch on Wednesday.
S13 asked me yesterday if we where to get a D who would get the house. He said he asked the same question to the STBXW. I feel so bad for him, he is starting to figure it out. I think she is too.
I have to go get my $$ that I took from my retirement to pay for the L today, open an account in my name. I will tell her on Wednesday about that Zuess, using your words or a rendition of them. My hope of this turning around is almost gone as my weakness turn to strengths.
Life [censored] sometimes, however through Him I have faith that it will be better some day.
Thanks again all.
Hi Coffee,
It sounds like you are certainly getting your ducks in a row regarding getting a L and protecting your assets. It is good to protect yourself and know your rights. Not a bad idea to keep this info to yourself for now.
I'm sorry you are not seeing your S13 this week. The teenage years are hard enough without having to deal with worrying about where he will be living.
What would happen if your STBXW realizes that she has made a mistake and the fog starts to lift? What would you do in that situation? Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Cristy,
I give it about a .08 percent change that the fog will lift. If it does I will call you. She has had 10 years of off and on EA's and has justified it based on my shortcomings in the M relationship. She has had this long to know how to detach if she got caught. She has completely detached, almost overnight from when the A's where discovered. Zuess warned me that something so profound would happen before I truely could start DBing. I have begun to attach.
What are the vets views on seeing/texting other women at this time to help me detach? I have been just as a confidence booster to help me realize that there is life after D and that I can find someone eventually.
I can totally stop it but I have been lonely for a long time and really enjoy some normal interaction to help distract and detach.
My counselor told be to tell her I want a D on Wednesday when I go to lunch. And also told me based on what I have disclosed to him that there is very little likelihood that her fog will lift. He did say that maybe some day after all of the papers are signed and things calm down that I should try to talk to her about what really went wrong. Is that a good idea, I know it is like trying to look into a crystal ball.
Coffee,
I don't think I qualify as a vet but I wanted to give my opinion. I'm so sorry for what you are going through. What a slap in the face to know its been going on this long.
I think you are perfectly within your right to move on but honestly, it wouldn't be fair to anyone you try and see right now. You need to heal yourself first and that will take some time. If you wait and make sure you take care of yourself, you will be in a much better position to go into a new relationship. You owe that to yourself and any person you may see in the future. I don't think seeing anyone right now will do anything to help you detach. It may only mask the pain of what you are going through right now.
Cristy,
What are the vets views on seeing/texting other women at this time to help me detach? I have been just as a confidence booster to help me realize that there is life after D and that I can find someone eventually.
This is the worst idea in the world. I would rather you tell us that you planned on using heroin in moderation to get through. Seriously.
How many reasons? Here are just a few.
1) Don't burn bridges. While your M is close to doomed, you never want to look back and wonder what would have happened if you played your cards differently. Back in 1999 my mom told my dad she wasn't sure if she wanted to stay married, she thought she wanted a divorce. She is a teacher and had a 6 month sabbatical and said that she would let it sit until she returned. They had plans to take a hiking vacation with my dad after she returned to do some talking. When she got back she called him to set that up, and he said "I have something I need to tell you. I have a girlfriend." Needless to say they never had the opportunity. The funny part is that my dad thinks my mom initiated the divorce, yet my mom thinks of him as the one that abandoned the relationship without giving it a chance. Either way, they have been divorced now for 16 years.
2) You don't have a chance to heal. When you separate there is a gaping hole in your life. That causes pain. You want to fill that up with something healthy. That is why we tell you to GAL. GAL gives you the opportunity to find new ways to fill your needs, validate yourself, form a new identity for the new life you have. If you shovel garbage into that hole it just puts off doing the work which you'll pay for later. You won't grow stronger.
3) It doesn't stop the pain. It causes more. Because you don't heal or grow, you are setting yourself up for more pain. People that rebound suffer cataclysmic losses when their rebound breaks up, it's the compounded losses of the new relationship on top of the old wounds which it rips open again. Not only that, it hurts the people you are connecting with. Many women that say they understand you want to move slow or aren't ready for anything serious think that in their head, but should you R with your W, or should you realize you're really not ready for anything serious then it will hurt the other person. You are really using them selfishly.
4) Rebounds don't last. There is a reason for that. When you're lonely and in pain, anyone seems like a savior. So you can cling to someone and think she is your angel. 2 years later you're doing better, and you realize you want more in your relationship. This goes back to causing pain.
5) You aren't learning to be appreciative for what you have. You talk about being stronger vs. being needy...but you want someone to hold you and comfort you and validate you, and you talk a lot about someone in the future. You need to learn to find joy in your life unconditionally. What if God told you that not only was your M over, you'd never have the relationship you wanted. Could you accept that and find some peace and happiness? You need to get to that point, otherwise you will bring a lot of expectation, open wounds, and suffering into your next relationship, which is another reason rebounds are doomed. Bottom line, if you can't find joy in your life as is, a woman won't save you.
6) You are a married man. The thought of other women is CRAZY talk. You are MARRIED. Personally I am a strong believer in Dr. Joy Browne's "1 year rule", which states that you wait a MINIMUM of 1 YEAR after the DIVORCE is FINAL. She states it is not separation date, or the last day you made love, or when you moved out, or when you consulted a lawyer. She says that it is a year after the divorce is actually finalized. And she says that is the absolute minimum, and anything shy of that is reckless and destructive. My IC believes it is a 3-5 year process to heal from a divorce, and I agree with this as well, I'm 2 years from BD and 6 months from the inked divorce and I still cried on my way to work this morning after a tough day yesterday. I'm not ready.
But, if you want to break the 1 year rule (and it was amazing the % of her callers cited problems that stemmed with breaking this rule), if you really want to rebound, at least wait until the D is final. Because here's the thing...if you date while you're married, you are committing adultery the same as her. Oh, you can say 'she cheated first', or 'I wouldn't have if she hadn't have...', but that's the same perverted logic that she is using on why she is cheating on you. I'm sure in her mind 'she wouldn't have if you didn't...' or 'if you did ___'. It's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong. What she does or doesn't do doesn't change what's right or wrong, and it's wrong for a married man to date.
Now a lot of people on these forums will tell you that it's ok to date at various stages, and that's fine. Everyone can have their own opinion. This is a DB forum and MWD doesn't speak specifically to dating post BD or post D (although I wish she would, because I think most people are way out of line on this). So no one is crossing MWD here. But just like there are people that will explain why it's ok to rebound, the WAS's have a lot of friends and family that support them on why it's ok to get a divorce in the first place, or any of the other selfish decisions they make. You can either make up your mind on what you want and then find people that help you rationalize it, or you can follow your beliefs.
Thank you for the forceful words Zuess, I needed to hear them. I will stop the activity immediately.
Your words make so much sense to be, My head is in the clouds also obviously. That is why I asked.
I understand the logic for waiting a year. I read this last night and really thought about it a lot while falling asleep and when I woke up.
I think the biggest single point you made is that yes I am still married man. Yes it is adultery.
All of your points resonated with me and I have thought of them all really as I pondered the thought of dating.
I am not ready for a divorce, it pains me to think that my W is but just isn't saying it...somebody has to I guess. My son is worried about it, I really feel for him.
Cristy,
What are the vets views on seeing/texting other women at this time to help me detach? I have been just as a confidence booster to help me realize that there is life after D and that I can find someone eventually.
I can totally stop it but I have been lonely for a long time and really enjoy some normal interaction to help distract and detach.
My counselor told be to tell her I want a D on Wednesday when I go to lunch. And also told me based on what I have disclosed to him that there is very little likelihood that her fog will lift. He did say that maybe some day after all of the papers are signed and things calm down that I should try to talk to her about what really went wrong. Is that a good idea, I know it is like trying to look into a crystal ball.
Coffee_
The short answer is don't do it! If you are truly detaching and focusing on yourself, why would you want to muddy the waters by getting involved with someone else...even casually?
Listen to to Zues, Jim and LiM and take their advice. It might stroke your ego and feel good in the short term, but it will not help your situation at all. Be the good role model for your son.
Cristy
P.S. Zues- your heroin analogy had me laughing out loud here at the office
It's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong. What she does or doesn't do doesn't change what's right or wrong, and it's wrong for a married man to date.
I'm pretty sure I agree with everything you posted, but this is my mindset all along, even during my weakness and I thought a date wouldn't hurt anything. I knew that was a lie. In 33+ years together I never cheated on her and I will not start now. I'm still married even if I don't wear my ring now.
Okay, point taken you two. Thanks again. I will continue to learn to love myself and my S13 the best I know how. Just saw him for lunch and when he left he said "see you around". He is so uncertain right now, as am I but my adult brain is probably a little better equipped than his. This will be devastaing to all three of us, my STBXW may take a bit longer to recognize the effects of this tragedy.
I have grown up in a household where this type of thing just rarely happens. Out of 8 siblings 2 have been divorced, one just recently. My folks have been married for 60 years and continue to love each other.
Her Dad has been married 3 times and her mother twice. This is the normal for her, if I would have known when I was 19 that this is a warning sign (among others like addiction and abuse) I would have picked differently. I hope that someday I will be able to constructively teach my son how to pick a wife (or how not to rather). I understand that ultimately it will be his decision.
The thing is we waited 7 years of marriage to have a kiddo, really tried to get to know each other and get the college kids out of our system before really settling down. I don't regret having my son but I don't want this for him, but I really don't have a choice now, she has made it for us all. Hurting today, the day before I tell my wife I am proceeding with the D.
ugh! I have been feeling pretty good these last two weeks concentrating on the logistics of the D process. Today I am very emotional, my gut feels like the day I found out about the first A....this stinks! I am having a hard time concentrating at work and just want to hang out on this site all day!
I just have to keep posting....today my detachment level is low. She started off the day stopping by my work to drop off a bag for my S13, then with an email, I replied and nothing back all day. Letting her actions fuel my emotions, feeling emotional for sure because I am going to drop the B tomorrow. She probably knows it is coming, as I asked her to lunch.
Please start a new thread you are over 100 posts
Cadet, it says I only have 70 posts...But I can start a new thread for sure.
Cadet, it says I only have 70 posts...But I can start a new thread for sure.
It is not your post count but the thread that you are posting on.
You have 106 on this thread
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2687033#Post2687033