I'm not sure exactly how this works but here I go.
My wife and I have Been married 9 years.
We have two boys ages 7 and 5.
On November 20th, 2015 I had a huge screaming match with my 17yr old (from a previous relationship)whose been living with us for 6 months up to that pint it was 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. During the screaming match i upset the youngest boy and my wife took both kids to our bedroom and locked the door.
The next morning she called my 17 yr old's mother and said he needed to go back and stay with her awhile.
That next day my wife said that was a horrible person and that she had not been happy for several years.
She than told me she loved me as the father of our children but that was all.
Since November 20th I've been sleeping on the couch and she is totally shut down to me emotionally.
I've done everything to better myself good and bad. pleaded, begged, back off, went dark, etc.... I just don't know what to do at this point. she hasn't filed for divorce, but I feel it right around the corner.
I know I'm all over the place with the way I'm acting, but this is the most lost I've ever felt.
It's like a switch went off and she's totally a different person.
I just don't see how someone does this.
Any advice at this point would be helpful
Married:9
Kids: 2 Boy 1 Boy from other relationship.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
It's like a switch went off and she's totally a different person.
I just don't see how someone does this.
I give you a quote from my first post here May 2009
I am here to learn as much as I can since this entire process hit me like a sledgehammer.
Yup the switch got hit with that sledgehammer!
Read the homework
I've been trying to implement Sandis rules for the last week , and my wife seems to be getting irritable and more distant. Is this normal?
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I feel like I may be reading too much into things, but here you go.
Wife has paid a lot of our debt (minus Mortgage and car) in the last month. I also just found out she has gotten her own visa credit card yesterday. Didn't tell me about card found out through account she applied for. i feel like she's staging for divorce or seperation. any thoughts?
I know I'm all over the place with the way I'm acting, but this is the most lost I've ever felt.
Let's start here.
In my opinion, the best thing you can do is act consistently.
You say you are making changes to yourself, but if you dont conduct yourself in a consistent manner, how can W trust that your actions are for real?
Hello JB910,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
What was happening in your marriage before the blow up with your 17 year old? Is he still with you and your wife? Raising teenagers is tough, but there must be more to this than an ugly/scary arguement.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Going on sandis rules for 2nd week and my seems to be getting more angry by the day. Can some people tell their experiences when try to implement sandis rules.
JBL
I am disappointed for you that you are here.
Firstly, your W wants out so she is the one who should be on the couch.
Reclaim the MBR, just move back in. This is your home.
Consider if she is wayward and having either an EA or a PA.
To my mind her behaviour about your S without consultation (if I have that correctly) is just plainly controlling, it makes me uncomfortable, this is a big thing.
Read DR and DB thoroughly.
If she is beginning to be angry then please detach.
Enforce your boundaries.
I made so many mistakes when my WH started being angry, ranting and calling me names.
At one point I reacted back and for a brief spell the part of me I call Screaming Banshee emerged.
It was not my best moment
So
1. I left the MBR (mistake)
2. I took too much notice of WH angry complaints and took all the blame
3. I had few boundaries
4. The few boundaries I had I did not enforce
5. I sought IC too late
6. I did not realistically assess my role and if WH was correct, I took all the blame
5. I neither validated or invalidated, I got shell shocked
What went right?
1. DB and the good folks here
2. GAL GAL GAL
3. Detaching
4. IC eventually
------------------------
I had Sandi guidelines laminated!
I recorded the rants etc and discussed them with my IC
Hugs
V
Don't give up. Keep posting. The weekends are a little slow around here, so you can use it to read the links Cadet gave you, and the Divorce Remedy book.
Can you give us more information about your marital past? Why did your first M end? How long between first M ending before you started seeing current W? Any history of infidelity?
Don't give up. Keep posting. The weekends are a little slow around here, so you can use it to read the links Cadet gave you, and the Divorce Remedy book.
Can you give us more information about your marital past? Why did your first M end? How long between first M ending before you started seeing current W? Any history of infidelity?
Never got married to my first child's mother. We were together for five years.
Started dating current wife 4 yrs. after my sons mother and I split up.
No infidelity on either side that I know of. Current wife says that I've not been there for her emotional for at least a couple years. I've got a feeling that she may be emotionally involved with someone at her work, but I've got no proof. She's on her phone non stop and guards it like gold.
Also her brother who was only 48 had a heart attack 3 months prior to the BD'ing. I kinda of believe his death may have triggered a midlife crisis scenario, from the way she's behaving.
I've been trying to implement Sandis rules for the last week , and my wife seems to be getting irritable and more distant. Is this normal?
I doubt it is your application of the rules that's causing her reaction. More likely, it is b/c of resentment that has built up for an extended amount of time. If enough resentment exist, it is almost impossible for the LBH to do anything that is going to get a positive response from the W. that doesn't mean you are currently failing in your attempts of applying the rules, it just means that in her mindset she is through with you, the M, and everything related. She feels completely done, and a few days f you applying the rules are not going to switch her back.
I don't think the screaming match was the sole action that instigated your W's decision to want out of the M. It may have been the final straw. The pattern of the WW or WAW (as described by MWD) is to carry negative feelings for a long time before she acts on it. From what you have said about the finances, I would guess that she's been planning to leave for a while now.
Most H's want to see immediate positive results to whatever he considers as him trying to make things better. However, it very seldom works out that way, b/c of the negative mindset of the W and the time it took to get there. Am I saying it is hopeless? Not at all. I am saying it took time for your M to reach this point, and it will take time to repair and improve things.
You start with the one person you can control.........YOU. Look where you need to make life long changes to be a better man. Not just gimmic to get her back, but to become a better man. That is the only thing that's going to save you.
What are the ages of you and W?
Sandi everything you say is spot on. I understand that I need to work on me, but do I still apply sa dis rules?
Yes, still apply the rules.
Which ones do you feel she reacts to the worst?
Let me explain the whole situation to the best of my ability.
Since November 20th, blow up she has been totally disconnected emotionally to me. I ask her why and these are the things she said
1.) she has been unhappy for 3 years
2.) I haven't been there for her emotionally for 3 Yrs
3. I haven't helped out with kids or home for 3 yrs
4.) I never appreciated or helped out during holidays
5.) I've done stuff for myself on special occasions (Mothers Day specifically.
6.) she loves me as the father of her children, but nothing else
7.) I sleep in late and she always has to get up early.
since my revelation I've done the following with know success or glimmer of hope
Get up every day, EVERY DAY at 5:00 o'clock and start coffee, get the kids ready, laundry, clean the house, dishes, etc...
I realize that this has all been done by me because of Panic and fear of losing my family.
Well, needless to say I've run out of steam, lost 26 Lbs, and am a mess.
So, for the last 2 weeks if been trying to apply Sandis rules,
Since doing every thing didn't seem to be get any response.
I'm also going to marriage counsling by myself. She said she would go, but has never went, so I decided to quit asking for right now.
any advice would be appreciated.
Which ones do you feel she reacts to the worst?
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
What has she said about it?
She hasn't said anything. I'm the one who usually starts conversations, so I haven't. so she goes straight to her bedroom and shuts the door.
But you do speak, right? Maybe you are appearing to be cold? This rule is sometimes misunderstood and men, especially, seem to think they aren't suppose to open their mouth unless the W says something first. Maybe you are going to extreme, and she thinks you are being punitive.
No, I haven't, she goes straight to the room. I guess I'm going to have to start the conversation, but be scarce with my words?
I'm not sure if I can keep this up. I just want to throw in the towel. I'm feeling so much anxiety and depression. everyday I'm just waiting for someone to walk into my office and serve me divorce papers, even know she hasn't straight out told me she wants a divorce. It hasn't even been three months yet since the BD, but it feels like an eternity in hell. feeling sick to my stomach.
That rule is about, and for, those LBS who pursue the WS by starting and prolonging conversations. Just like some who try to keep their S on the phone longer by constantly finding more to talk about. Some LBS smother the WS with talk. Talk, and more talk. The rule explains not to act cold, mad, or rude. So, yes, speak to her. Just don't try to hold her captive by starting more conversation. If she engages in conversation, that's fine.....as long as you don't try to drag it out or take over. Just be pleasant (if possible) and let her do most of the talking. Make sense?
Makes, sense. I'm just really struggling this week. Every time I look at my Kids it breaks my heart that we may separate\divorce. I've got a lot of fear. Thanks for the response.
I Moved out last night. I couldn't do In-house separation anymore.
My wife and I met with a mutual friend to discuss our situation. My wife says that she wants a divorce, and doesn't want to be married to me anymore period. He continued to asks her some more questions regarding the lead up to this situation, and she broke down crying and said she felt really bad because I've got chrons disease and she knows I'll lose my health insurance which is under her work. I believe she's sincere in this statement and I felt really bad to see her cry. our mutal friend (Whose a Lawyer said that he thought it was a good idea that I move out immediately because we were both causing more pain at the moment in this situation living together. she has agreed to wait 90 days before filing for divorce or any other action. he said he would like to take us out to dinner with him and his wife in couple weeks, and she agreed. I so lost right now any suggestions?
So sorry JBS.
I know how painful this is for you. Your whole world feels like its crumbling.
You are going to need to break down your day into tiny bite size chunks. Instead of focusing on making it through today. Make it through the next hour.
Also, remember to beleive nothing of what your W says right now.
I'm feeling lower today then I've felt through this whole ordeal so far. Since my wife went emotionless towards me on November 20th For the first time I realize that I've been driving this situation towards a cliff mostly based on fear. I'm going to get real honest right now and tell you all some of the bone head moves I've made so far, please don't make the same mistakes. After the first couple of weeks that landed unfortunately on thanks giving, I was non stop asking what was wrong, and if she was going to leave me. Next I went out on a course of trying to fix all the things that my wife said I had failed at. Next came Christmas and she still wouldn't acknowledge the great things I had done, so once again I kept asking if she was going to divorce me and told her how it was going to ruin our kids. I continued trying to fix all my bad behaviors and on January 11th, made the biggest mistake of the crisis so far. after my wife refused to acknowledge she still love me I said something horrible in a fit of anger, "Well I think that maybe tomorrow I'm going to go down and file for divorce, and you better make sure and get a lawyer because I'm getting a mean one." She locked me out of our room and cried for over an Hour. This is a moment that I'll regret for the rest of my life. I believe that I've been so scared that my wife will leave me that I've actually tried to orchraste that so I could some what have control of the situation. I don't know if that make any since. Any advice would be appreciated.
Jb9140,
I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I did everything wrong starting on July 18th. Only in the last 3 weeks did I find the DR book and start db'ing. I am pretty sure it is too late for me because my H has filed for D, bought and new house and told our sons that he is proceeding with the D. I am still hopeful but facing that my db efforts are probably more about me becoming stronger to live on my own than fix my marriage.
Have you read the DR book and the posts on here? I feel like they are very helpful and you can completely change your behavior. My counselor said for months that I should stop trying to show my H that I love him with words but need to show him with consistent actions. I am by no means an expert because I made so many mistakes myself. But, if I had to do it over again, in your case, I would do a complete 180 and be less angry and try to be civil. I would detach and only interact when it was necessary for your daughter. I think you need to read Sandi's rules because it would help you tremendously. Good luck! I hope you can turn it around and you and your wife can find your way back to each other.
Sandi
I respect your advice immensely. From everything I've said. Please advise me on what to do for the best shot of saving my marriage. Current situation. Separated, WAW no affair, says she wants a divorce. won't file for at least 90 days from February 12th, verbal commitment. could file tomorrow if she wants to. I'm just so confused. I really want to stick to something consistence this 90 days. PLEASE HELP!!!
2 kids I take to school everyday and drop off in the evening. She says I can call anytime to talk to them.
Hey Jb,
There's no quick fix to this, trust me, I've tried.
You need to focus on Sandi's 37 rules, that will stop the bleeding.
Give your W plenty of time and space.
Be the best father you can for your kids, your wife will notice.
Have no expectations on the outcome of your situation.
Pull back from your wife and let her feel your absence.
Be happy and chipper when you see her without overdoing it (Fake it if you have to).
Get in the gym and get in shape.
The point is, you can't convince your wife to come back. You have to attract her back. And she has to have that epiphany on her own without you trying to convince her.
Sorry, I didn't see your shout out. I have to be gone a few hours, but I will get back with you. I started a new thread (Sandi Reflections). Although there may not be an A, why don't you read that thread and see if I've said anything that sounds like you and your W's dynamics withing the MR over the past years? Then I will contact you later today, okay?
I understand what you are saying. Many times we say things out of a deep pain and fear that we regret later. Sometimes we say things, thinking we will bluff the other person, and it comes back to bite us. Most of us have probably been guilty of doing those type actions, to some degree.
I hope you will take what I am about to suggest in the right way b/c I don't know if this is an ongoing problem. If you have a tendency to say mean things when you get into a situation with your W, I recommend you talk to your IC and seek a way in learning how to "fight fairly", without going for a vital organ with your sharp words. I was once told that I could shed a person like a head of cabbage and never use a ugly word. So.....I get where you are coming from.
I may not be able to tell you what to do to get your W back, but I can probably tell you a lot of things that don't work. You have already figured out what you were doing was accomplishing nothing but putting you in an early grave.
This is not going to be something you want to hear, so brace yourself. In all honesty, I do not see her changing her mind right away. I think she has been planning this for some time. That's not to say she will never change her mind! The pattern most women make is to get out on their own (or at least away from the H), have time to experience some freedom, experience or see what they have lost......and miss what they've lost. That usually takes time. The more anyone pressures her to stay with you, the more she is going to resist it. You have to turn lose and let her learn for herself.
I realize this may be taking away your breath and you are hearing "throw in the towel", however, that is not what I'm saying, okay? You need to utilize this time of separation by doing several things. Get a grip on that fear of yours. I think you may benefit reading a book called, Co-dependent No More. Also, if you have not read No More Mr. Nice Guy, you can download it free on the Internet. Hold on to Your N.U.T.S. is another recommendation. These are not relation-type books, but they are for the individual man who may not realize how he is hurting himself, due to being too nice......co-dependent, or whatever.
Don't just read to be reading, but digest it as if your life depended on you learning how to change into a better, stronger, more attractive type of male. Then go to work on what you learn. Not just changing the outside, but mainly making improvements in your mindset. Getting a life is something most newcomers seem to want to neglect, but the survivors here on the board will tell you that getting a personal life that does not involve your spouse is vital to improving yourself as a person, in detaching, becoming more interesting, more well-rounded, build confidence and healthier self-esteem, and overall just a happier outlook. That can be a real challenge for a person in the kind of pain of you are experiencing. Every LBS on the board can identify with your pain, and they started GAL by making themselves do it, whether they wanted to or not.
Not the kind of advice you were wanting, huh? I know, and I wish I had the magic formula, and I am giving you as close to any magic as you will get in these type of situations. Back away from her and do not try to date her, phone her, find excuses to see her. The more you pursue, the faster she'll go in the opposite direction. Yes, she's angry......all WW's are angry. That is another reason you need to keep your distance, and let give her lots of time to cool off. I am talking a lot of time! You can still have your kids over, but you don't need to be going over there. Make sense?
Appearing happier, more relaxed and in control can go a long with a woman's feelings. As long as she sees you angry, uptight, afraid, threatening, crying, depressed, etc...........the more she will want to escape. However, if you are pleasant, not asking a lot of questions, or making any emotional demand on her......she may begin to relax, also.
Don't let her take advantage of you, b/c that works against her respecting you. One of the main things you will need to accomplish in order to have a successful MR, is to have her respect. A woman has to respect her H as a man, before she can feel love for him as her H. So, don't try to nice her back, or become a doormat.....thinking you ate making up for what you've done or said to her. Get your focus on the "respect" and don't worry about showing her how much you love her. This is not really about showing how much you love her. I know she gave you some excuses for her wanting out, but all women do it. They feel they owe the H some mind of excuse.......even if they have to make it up! It seldom has anything to do with the real issue at hand, however. So again, don't get too out of balance over what she said.
Even if she doesn't see that much out of you, she will hear about you. She'll know you are not sitting home pinning away for her, and that you ate going out and GAL. You see, most of the time, it's just the opposite of what men think, that really catches the interest of his woman. Men and women do not think alike. So, get you a calendar and start filling in the days with various things to do. Make the most of this time you have. When you have the kids, give them fun memories to keep with them. You can do it. Sure, you don't feel like it at the moment, but you have to make yourself do these things, if you want a chance at a better future, and hopefully, your W wanting to come back to you. After a little while, I hope you'll see how this is not just about getting her back again, but to make yourself happier.
I will come back with more, but I will end this post for tonight. Don't give up. These things take a lot of time.
^^^ that is the gospel. Thank you Sandi.
...I continued trying to fix all my bad behaviors and on January 11th, made the biggest mistake of the crisis so far. after my wife refused to acknowledge she still love me I said something horrible in a fit of anger, "Well I think that maybe tomorrow I'm going to go down and file for divorce, and you better make sure and get a lawyer because I'm getting a mean one."...
Yeah, I did something pretty close to that. For my "birthday present" my W said she'd do counseling. Only it turned out it was to tell me in a very expensive way there was no way things would work out - and she wasn't willing to try.
Unfortunately, the counselor stank - I wish I could take that back too.
So when she was finishing our last session with "we can still be friends, won't that be nice?" junk I said that there was no way I could stand to see her with somebody else, I wasn't going to play nice and let her have everything and I would get a lawyer and dissolve everything.
Although I wish I could take it back - as it turns out she'd already gotten a lawyer and filed the next day. She had absolutely no intention of getting a mediator and doing it all nice like. She was way ahead of me, but wanted to pretend she was taking some sort of high road.
She's such a twisted piece of work that for Christmas, knowing full well she was filing for divorce accepted a pearl necklace from my elderly Mother - a gift given to her as an engagement present. She full expects that it's hers to keep - and doesn't have the slightest remorse about her scruples.
Sandi2 is right here - I'm really not sure I'd want to crawl inside her head.
You have one huge advantage
I don't. Kids and contact. Those 2 things alone give you some sort of fighting chance - and at the very least something to focus on and live for. I don't have kids - and at this point feel like a rudderless boat.
Wow - Thanks Sandi, these are things I actually need to hear. I'm going to look into the reading materials you suggested. One last question. My wife this whole time has been hanging out exclusively it seems with a girlfriend that is also wanting to divorce her husband. I feel like they are somewhat feeding off eachother emotionally. Any suggestions.
I can almost assure you they are feeding off each other! Unfortunately, the more you try to discourage her to spend time with this girlfriend, the more she's going to see her. This is part of the rebellion. The WW is very much like a rebellious teenager who is hanging out with the wrong crowd or dating a bad boy. The more the parents tell her to stop seeing them, the more she'll resist doing what her parents want.
It's very disheartening for you, however, this is one of the many things that your WW will have to learn the hard way, or she may never see it at all. She has to butt with her own head whenever she is bound & determined to be influenced with friends who are making bad choices and wanting to pull her along, too.
There are many, many women who have been influenced to leave their M, by a wayward girlfriend. Birds of a feather flock together, or something of that nature.
That's kind of what I figured. Thanks for the insight as always
Not going to lie. This morning really stung.Today is my birthday. When I picked up the kids this morning to take them to school, not only did my wife not acknowledge my birthday, but she didn't even tell the kids to wish me a happy birthday. OUCH!!! (She knows today is my birthday by the way)
Well let me wish you a Happy Birthday, in spite of everything that is happening around you. It's just awful how a WW will act and treat her H, even on special occasions. It's her way of hurting him just a little more.
I know it would be tough the first time, but I hope you will not depend upon her to make this day happy for you. Take that responsibility yourself and just make the most out of this day. Have a backup plan in mind for this evening. If you get home and still nothing about your birthday, get the kids and say you are going to celebrate daddy's birthday, and take them somewhere fun and act as if you are having a blast.
((JB910))
Thanks sandi. My wife is not seeing anyone that I know of. Does this still make her a wayward wife? or a WAW? Also, I moved out of the house last week.
She seems to be wayward. She may not be in an affair, but the rest of it seems to fit. Focus on getting respected.
Spouse has asked me over to help 1st grade son with a book report, that's due tomorrow. She's known about this report for two weeks. Should I go?
I am not sure what is best for db'ing, but your son is only in first grade, so is it really that important that you have to rush over and help?
However, on the other hand, my friend always makes me answer this question: would you have done it for your kids before the separation? Who does it hurt?
IMHO, he is in first grade, so it is not critical. But, in most cases, I would say do what is in the best interest of your kids. Keep to the other db'ing strategies the best you can if you go over there. Good luck
She is going to use the kids to manipule you. The WW may not want the H, however, she wants to control him. Yes, the kids feel the repercussions of the manipulation. That is the unfortunate reality of S/D. My advice would be to lay down a ground rule of what you will or won't be doing. I would tell her that in the future, if your son needs assistance with homework that she has previously known is due, then it will be her responsibility to help him.......or she can give you considerable notice.
She will not respond well, and probably will accuse of you being a bad father.....blah....blah...blah. You cannot be blackmailed and manipulated into the smaller things, b/c believe me, it will only get worse. So, let it be known now that you will not be hopping over there every time she calls and tells you what you need to do for your child.
It does not make you a bad father. You won't be able to do for your kids on a day-to-day interaction the way you could if they were under the same roof with you. She has to see the reality of separation. It is not to punish her or out of anger, but to have some control in your own life. You cannot be available for her to snap her fingers to run over there. She will use the kids as her leverage. She will use the guilt card to manipulate you. It will be not be pleasant for you, and you may have guilty feelings, but it does not mean you have failed as a father or even as a H. Stay calm, cool, and collected. Do not go into long explanations with her. Just state it as civil as possible and then let her go. You can do it without looking like a jerk.
Does this make sense?
Makes sense, but I'm not going to lie this is going to be tough. I love my kids so much. I'm rel bad at feeling guilty about stuff like this. WISH ME LUCK
Today is a tough day. I can't seem to quit obsessing about my wife. I want to call her , tell her I love her, and please give our marriage another chance. Attachment is very hard for me. I feel like if I don't say something to her, she's going to leave and say I never tried. The head games I play with myself are excruciatingly tormenting.
Hey Jb,
It's torture isn't it? We panic and feel have to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING.
It's hard to stand back and watch this trainwreck.
I can tell you though, you will not get the response you want if you call her and beg her stay. You will feel worse that you do now.
Many people have tried it over and over again here. I've NEVER seen it work.
Your W needs to respect you before she can feel attracted to you again. Telling her you love her as she walks away kills her respect for you.
From what I've seen, its when the WAW see's the LBH start to move on (move on for real - not fake it) that they start to come back around.
The hard part is that it takes a long time to actually move on from WAW. Thats why DB stresses GAL and detachment. It helps the LBS start to move on.
DB does work, not always, but enough to give it a shot. It's worked for me in the past. I'm back again, but I was able to get her back.
Obsessing is where I struggle too, my mind is literally my worst enemy. Replaying things over and over again. Replaying conversations, good times, all that stuff. All you can do is try to distract yourself as best as you can.
Hang in there, Jb. You are not alone.
I realize it makes sense to you to call and beg her to give the M another chance and to tell her how much you love her. At this point for her, it is about respect. If a woman treats her H badly and he begs her to stay, in her mind he is basically saying that she can mistreat him and he will tollerate it.........just don't leave him. This only results with her disrespecting him more, b/c she sees it as weakness in him.
Her lack of respect for you as a man is getting in the way of her love. As a woman, she has to respect you as a man, before she is capable of desiring you....loving you as her H. That is how women are wired. That is why the way to win her back has to be by getting her respect. It starts with you refusing to take cr@p behavior from her.
Good luck JB. I know exactly how you feel.
Okay, thanks. I pick up the kids after school as of right now. Wife texted me and asked if I would stay with the kids a little extra today. She has a friend that had surgery today and would like to stop by and see her. I truly know that this a legitimate request, so I said sure. I don't want to be a total dick. I hope i made the right call. Any thoughts?
Sure, if she doesn't totally take advantage of the "extra time". If she does, then you'll know better the next time she asks you to stay longer.
Is it really possible for me to save my marriage? I know, anything is possible !
I just feel so exhausted. I'm only 4 months into this and I feel I've already lost at least five years off my life. This [censored] is so draining.
Am I being a fool? My wife asked me to come watch the kids for a couple hours while she visited a friend in the hospital. This is the 2nd timethis week. I feel like u should say no, but I don't want to look like a jerk. Help sandi
I misunderstood the other time she asked you. I thought the kids were already staying with you and she asked if you could keep them a little longer to see her hospitalized friend. However, if you are going to her place to keep them, and this is the second time this week, that sounds as if she's taking some advantage. I mean, her friend should understand she is tied up with the kids (if that is the real reason), or she could take the kids with her.
Don't be too available for your W to use.
Is there anyway to truly know if your marriage is pass the point of no return. I want so badly to get my wife back. When do you throw in the towel? Someone with experience please answere. I feel like my life is on hold.
It's not past the point of no return yet. Here's what I posted elsewhere:
This is why I try to stay optimistic. Granted,it keeps me from moving forward with my life completely. But miracles do happen:
I have friends who got back together after one had a 1.5 years long affair. They are doing well. Another couple are back together after one moved out with no warning to another state! That took over a year I believe. It's possible.
And I forgot to mention another couple I know. He loved her completely and worshiped the ground she walked on. She was kind of a biatch to him, didn't appreciate him at all. They separated, at her request. He found a cute apartment, started dating, and moved on with his interesting life. She missed him, couldn't believe he was doing so well. They are back together and happy.
Don't give up yet, but do try to GAL. Easier said than done when you are in crisis. Give yourself time.
Is there anyway to truly know if your marriage is pass the point of no return.
Stop putting your life on hold and start moving forward.
Your marriage is over when YOU decide!
I just get so frustrated and angry. my wife will take no accountability in our marriage falling apart. I'm so tired of feeling like the scape goat in this whole situation. I feel like I'm going to come totally unglued at some point. I'm just wanting to get that off my chest.
Here's the thing, JB, you are exhausted and frazzled b/c you are not in control. She is in control of the relationship, and therefore, she's controlling you. The one who is needy and pursuing is not the one in charge. It is the one who causes distance.
You desperately want your wife back, that is clear. It is clear to her, also, that you desperately want her back. She controls your actions. Do you know how she controls you?
You have to drop the emotional rope you have tied around her waist. You are exhausted b/c you continue pulling on that rope.....trying to get her back to you. She is not only used to you pulling on the rope, but now she expects it. When you tried to go by the 37 rules and you said she didn't like it......do you know how she controlled your actions? With her temperament. That's all it takes for a lot of men to immediately stop whatever they're doing that the W doesn't like.....b/c the H does NOT want to get the princess in a bad mood. Women have controlled husbands with their moods since the beginning of time. So, you have to make up your mind that you will no longer be controlled by her moods. If what you are doing is not out of spite, revenge, punishment, or some other negative reason....then act according to what you believe is the right thing to do....and not according to how she will react.
I totally suck at this divorce busting.... My biggest concern is the one of the biggest complaints from my wife besides the anger issue of mine is that there hasn't been enough intimacy or emotional connection between us for several years. like all of this LRT and 180's is counter intuitive to the situation. it's also absolutely impossible for me to go completely dark since we have kids.
Just let my wife know that we owe 2750.00 in taxes this year. Her response was how dependent were you claiming last year. I said what's your point. We owe taxes off how much we both Madge last year. Wether or no we got it through out of last year or now the amount of taxes is the same. You had no problem spending the money last year. " Bottom line is WE owe 2750.00 in taxes. It felt good to finally stand up to her. She did not like it. Tough [censored].
I need some solid advice here. I moved out 1 month ago on my own choice. We both are on the deed of the house and there are 2 children involved. I'm starting to feel that Ive given my wife a real advantage if she decided to say I abandoned the children and house. She gave me her word she wouldn't, but what does her word at this point mean. I'm really tempted to move back in this weekend and take the spare bedroom. Please advise pro's and cons.
Sandi... input would be appreciated.
Thanks
Consult a lawyer. Lots of them give free consultations.
Anyone else have an opinion?
I agree that getting in contact with a L isnt' a bad idea. I think trying to force yourself back into the home probably is. You're making a disaster out of a situation that hasn't happened (I'm just as guilty of this (Re: the dogs in my sitch)) but it doesn't hurt to have a game plan just in case your disaster scenario is true. So yeah, I agree with Thornton, a L is probably a good person to have in your corner.
we actually had a lawyer friend sit down with us when I decided to move out 4 weeks ago. she said she wouldn't accuse me of abandonment in front of him as a witness. I told him today I wanted to move back in because I feel guilty about leaving my kids. Plus the fact I'm sleeping on a friends couch.he said he didn't see an issue legally, but warned me she's going to be super pissed. I really don't give a rats ass at this point if she gets pissed.
How does that affect the kids? My concern would be that gives them "false hope" you will reconcile depending on what you've told them and their ages..
Kids have not been told anything except that dad is going to see a friend for awhile. SANDI can you please explain to me on how to DB in a in house separation. Or at least the guidelines per say. I thought i read somewhere that you said it's almost impossible.
I say move back. If she has a problem with you both staying at the house, she can move out.
we actually had a lawyer friend sit down with us when I decided to move out 4 weeks ago. she said she wouldn't accuse me of abandonment in front of him as a witness. I told him today I wanted to move back in because I feel guilty about leaving my kids. Plus the fact I'm sleeping on a friends couch.he said he didn't see an issue legally, but warned me she's going to be super pissed. I really don't give a rats ass at this point if she gets pissed.
Yep, you need to move back ASAP. Be ready for the crap she will deal you but you need to assert your rights.
I think you are doing what a lot of H's do, which is impulsive action. Give it another week before moving. Get legal facts on where you stand by not moving back, what she can or can't do to hurt you in D and child custody. Don't use the lawyer friend b/c he is a mutual friend. Get a lawyer who will work for your best outcome.
You left b/c you couldn't handle being under the same roof. If you return, do it with a purpose driven mindset. Know your true reason for returning, and the plan you will follow. I don't suggest you blindly move back, or out of compulsion.
Sandi. I totally agree things should not be done from impulse or emotions. I've thought this through for over a week and it's time to truly put my foot down. I'm going to do my best not to show anger. My wife needs to know that I'll no longer take her disrespect.
SANDI can you please explain to me on how to DB in a in house separation. Or at least the guidelines per say. I thought i read somewhere that you said it's almost impossible.
I can't recall an in-house separation from a wayward wife that was reconciled. IMHO, it is not a true separation.......b/c the only thing separated are the beds, and in most cases, they weren't having much sex, anyway. I have read where some couples who claim to be S are still sleeping in the same bed! So what is actually S in that case? There are no ground rules. They all live in the same house, eating together, watching tv together, attending the kids school activities together, and he continues with the financial support. She gets all the advantages of being married to him, without any disadvantages. She can still do whatever she pleases, and if he protests, she throws up to him they are separated. So, it's like the H is providing her with all these benefits while she tells him to go to he11.
If the W is
wayward, and if they are calling themselves separated, I personally think he stands a better chance of reconciliation if he was not living in the same house with her. For her, nothing really changes when there is an in-house separation. If she has an OM, then she can conduct her A, while her H stays out of hair. It gives her playing time for the OM to decide what he's going to do (divorce his W, marry your WW, run away together, or whatever). And from what I have read, the LBH is usually eager to please and he's knocking himself out trying to win her back. Instead of her gaining respect for him, she disrespects him worse. She just thinks the H is a fool for putting up with the cr@p she dishes out. She knows that he still want to save the M, and if OM doesn't work out......the LBH will still be there.
If she sees her H living in his own place (not sleeping on a friend's couch, staying with his parents, etc.) and GAL, she has more reason to consider the possibility she could lose him. If she has to split her time with the kids, keep her own house clean, cook her own meals, be responsible for getting out of bed to take care of her kids, and pay her own expenses, she
may start to see how things could be without her H. As long as he is in the same house, she takes him for granted. It's pretty hard to be that strongly attractive male if she takes him for granted.
we actually had a lawyer friend sit down with us when I decided to move out 4 weeks ago. she said she wouldn't accuse me of abandonment in front of him as a witness. I told him today I wanted to move back in because I feel guilty about leaving my kids. Plus the fact I'm sleeping on a friends couch.he said he didn't see an issue legally, but warned me she's going to be super pissed. I really don't give a rats ass at this point if she gets pissed.
Is your friend a divorce lawyer though? Family law is very different from corporate law, as my lawyer friends tell me. I would be very careful about your situation. What she said with witness doesn't hold much water in custody battles. In most states, moving away even temporarily will mean you give up a lot of your rights as a parent. Consult a divorce lawyer (usually they'll do the first session for free) and make sure you have your ducks in a row.
I can't recall an in-house separation from a wayward wife that was reconciled. IMHO, it is not a true separation.......b/c the only thing separated are the beds, and in most cases, they weren't having much sex, anyway. I have read where some couples who claim to be S are still sleeping in the same bed! So what is actually S in that case? There are no ground rules. They all live in the same house, eating together, watching tv together, attending the kids school activities together, and he continues with the financial support. She gets all the advantages of being married to him, without any disadvantages. She can still do whatever she pleases, and if he protests, she throws up to him they are separated. So, it's like the H is providing her with all these benefits while she tells him to go to he11.
Sandi, you might be right about the relationship part, but what JB needs to watch out for is his legal and custodial rights. If his W files for D, it will be very easy for her to get full custody since he has moved out.
I'm in about the same boat right now, my WW filed but has not moved out as her lawyer is coaching her on a financial scheme.
She never asked me to move because the house has always been in my name only, and she has been finding out just how hard it is to go out on her own. Obviously, I was not going to move out since I'm not the one who cheated. Hopefully it will make her come to her senses.
I am not sure how it will work for JB since his kids are younger. But, I have two teenagers and I've been told he will get 50% custody if he wants it even though he moved out of the marital home months ago. I think you need to consult a couple family law attorneys because custody is very important. Then, factor it into your DB strategy. Good luck
Oh I agree about protecting himself legally. My previous post was simply trying to respond to the question he asked about DBing when he's in-house separation.
Thanks for answering my question sandi. Unfortunately I broke a bunch of rules the last couple days. Mostly let my wife pull me into heated arguments. We both have said some real hurtful things the last couple days. I'm basically taking a time out.
Wife says she wants a separation or divorce ASAP. I move out or she moves out with (kids). Is here stance. She says she is having panic attacks and that I got to get away from her immediately. I'm looking at getting a apartment, but if I do I told her we've got to see a lawyer to fill out some sort of separation agreement. FLORIDA doesn't have a legal separation law. Any thoughts. I don't want to make things any harder on my kids if possible.
I understand what you are saying. Many times we say things out of a deep pain and fear that we regret later. Sometimes we say things, thinking we will bluff the other person, and it comes back to bite us. Most of us have probably been guilty of doing those type actions, to some degree.
I hope you will take what I am about to suggest in the right way b/c I don't know if this is an ongoing problem. If you have a tendency to say mean things when you get into a situation with your W, I recommend you talk to your IC and seek a way in learning how to "fight fairly", without going for a vital organ with your sharp words. I was once told that I could shed a person like a head of cabbage and never use a ugly word. So.....I get where you are coming from.
I may not be able to tell you what to do to get your W back, but I can probably tell you a lot of things that don't work. You have already figured out what you were doing was accomplishing nothing but putting you in an early grave.
This is not going to be something you want to hear, so brace yourself. In all honesty, I do not see her changing her mind right away. I think she has been planning this for some time. That's not to say she will never change her mind! The pattern most women make is to get out on their own (or at least away from the H), have time to experience some freedom, experience or see what they have lost......and miss what they've lost. That usually takes time. The more anyone pressures her to stay with you, the more she is going to resist it. You have to turn lose and let her learn for herself.
I realize this may be taking away your breath and you are hearing "throw in the towel", however, that is not what I'm saying, okay? You need to utilize this time of separation by doing several things. Get a grip on that fear of yours. I think you may benefit reading a book called, Co-dependent No More. Also, if you have not read No More Mr. Nice Guy, you can download it free on the Internet. Hold on to Your N.U.T.S. is another recommendation. These are not relation-type books, but they are for the individual man who may not realize how he is hurting himself, due to being too nice......co-dependent, or whatever.
Don't just read to be reading, but digest it as if your life depended on you learning how to change into a better, stronger, more attractive type of male. Then go to work on what you learn. Not just changing the outside, but mainly making improvements in your mindset. Getting a life is something most newcomers seem to want to neglect, but the survivors here on the board will tell you that getting a personal life that does not involve your spouse is vital to improving yourself as a person, in detaching, becoming more interesting, more well-rounded, build confidence and healthier self-esteem, and overall just a happier outlook. That can be a real challenge for a person in the kind of pain of you are experiencing. Every LBS on the board can identify with your pain, and they started GAL by making themselves do it, whether they wanted to or not.
Not the kind of advice you were wanting, huh? I know, and I wish I had the magic formula, and I am giving you as close to any magic as you will get in these type of situations. Back away from her and do not try to date her, phone her, find excuses to see her. The more you pursue, the faster she'll go in the opposite direction. Yes, she's angry......all WW's are angry. That is another reason you need to keep your distance, and let give her lots of time to cool off. I am talking a lot of time! You can still have your kids over, but you don't need to be going over there. Make sense?
Appearing happier, more relaxed and in control can go a long with a woman's feelings. As long as she sees you angry, uptight, afraid, threatening, crying, depressed, etc...........the more she will want to escape. However, if you are pleasant, not asking a lot of questions, or making any emotional demand on her......she may begin to relax, also.
Don't let her take advantage of you, b/c that works against her respecting you. One of the main things you will need to accomplish in order to have a successful MR, is to have her respect. A woman has to respect her H as a man, before she can feel love for him as her H. So, don't try to nice her back, or become a doormat.....thinking you ate making up for what you've done or said to her. Get your focus on the "respect" and don't worry about showing her how much you love her. This is not really about showing how much you love her. I know she gave you some excuses for her wanting out, but all women do it. They feel they owe the H some mind of excuse.......even if they have to make it up! It seldom has anything to do with the real issue at hand, however. So again, don't get too out of balance over what she said.
Even if she doesn't see that much out of you, she will hear about you. She'll know you are not sitting home pinning away for her, and that you ate going out and GAL. You see, most of the time, it's just the opposite of what men think, that really catches the interest of his woman. Men and women do not think alike. So, get you a calendar and start filling in the days with various things to do. Make the most of this time you have. When you have the kids, give them fun memories to keep with them. You can do it. Sure, you don't feel like it at the moment, but you have to make yourself do these things, if you want a chance at a better future, and hopefully, your W wanting to come back to you. After a little while, I hope you'll see how this is not just about getting her back again, but to make yourself happier.
I will come back with more, but I will end this post for tonight. Don't give up. These things take a lot of time.
So I've been reading over all my post. This one jumped out at me. The bold text is what's concerning me. I'm having a real hard time trying to figure out exactly how long I'm willing to wait. A friend of mine told me early on that he wouldn't be surprised if I file for divorce first. At the time I thought he was crazy. Was he? I'm only a week into the separation, and it truly wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'd like to hear some thoughts on how long the LBS should wait. I understand that this a personal decision. Just interested in everyone's thoughts
MHO is that you should not WAIT at all.
STANDING is not WAITING,
Standing is not STILL
it is moving forward,
maybe without moving on.
So what is your "waiting" going to look like?
Always better to file first. Puts in control of the process.
If can afford the house on your own you need to stay there and suggest she can leave anytime she wants, she's not chained to the house. Don't try to stop her, reason with her, or guilt her into staying. It's a waste of time, looks needy and weak, and is counter productive.
About the kids, you have rights, as does she. See a lawyer and know your rights. Try to keep them in the house and just visit her for her time with them. If she cares about them she will let them stay in their home for minimal disruption in their lives (doubtful that she really cares at this time).
Don't be afraid of her leaving, she's already gone mentally anyway. Drop the rope, GAL, and be the best dad and person you can be.