Ugggg.... Weekends are the toughest for me. How do I push my heart aside and let my WW go? She gets angrier by the week. Tells me that I'm staying in the house only to torture her. I've never cared for her or loved her. That I only stay with her because I'm comfortable.
Where has my W gone and who/what has possessed her? She's even decided that our pets our disposable so that she can get me out of our house. I sort of want to move out to get away from her but I've heard people on here say it's not a good idea and the L to whom I spoke confirmed. I'm very confused to the point of paralysis. I'm just so down because my WW thinks I have never loved her, I'm only after her because she provides me comfort. Although she has said that she would consider returning to our relationship in 5 to 10 years, that is no longer on the table because I won't leave the house.
I readily admit that our sex life was extremely poor because of me but there is no possibility of a 180 on that given her refusal to let me touch her. Interestingly, she got extremely upset when I did a 180 on this shortly after BD. To her, it showed her that I never cared. To her, the only reason I did something is because there was competition and I don't like to lose. I don't see my M as a game.
In short, my 2 biggest problems were a lack of sexual intimacy and I stopped talking to her last summer when I got depressed trying to find a job. How do you 180 that?
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2639053#Post2639053
Need help. WW is being nice and wants us to talk about finances and splitting bills for this month. I know I have to do this. How do I do it with a smile on my face? I'm dying inside and I just want to crawl in a whole and hide.
Bud
Put that game face on. Business time. You can not look at her like you used to. She is someone trying to ruin you right now. Never show your hand or lack of. Be polite but fair. Don't give too much and don't be a dick.
On another note about the 180's. Don't get discouraged. Do them if you feel they are right and how you want to be. Then be consistent. If you flip flop then she knows you are just trying to get her back.
Good luck
Envision her a business associate. Try to emotionally detach and show strength. This is a simple business transaction, nothing more.
It's hard to do but you'll be surprised that it does work.
Thank you for the support otw and Thornton. I hear you about putting the game face on and treating it like a business transaction. Easier said than done for me but I will continue to try.
Think WW could sense my sadness last night. She asked what's wrong and followed up asking if I wanted to talk. Although I wanted to talk, I told her no thanks because all I wanted to say was how much I love, value and appreciate her. She replied cryptic. Sorry, thought we were finally having some nights of sanity. Forgot I'm not supposed to care. I responded that I enjoyed talking with her earlier in the evening and validated her as a mom since she spent the evening comforting our sick D3 and dropped conversation.
Did I do ok by avoiding relationship talk or did I miss an opportunity???
It's hard and i am in similar shoes.
Right now you have to do what others are saying and make it like a business transaction.
I am doing the same thing. She wants me out but my L said stay put.....for now until we have everything in writing, custody, etc...resolved I am hoping things change during the time but its just getting rougher
I would put on your game face and smile....I know how hard this is...you just want to say "I know where things went wrong, lets give it a chance and work on this.." Which I think should be the path but sounds like she is going dark and fast down the other path (she must know my WAW)
Its not easy and I am not sure about the 180 thing. I am reading and trying it and I don't see how this will help either but....no real other path to take that has worked right?
I hear you rich4j. Spoke to WW a little about finances today. She brought up relationship and I admitted faults and affirmed her feelings. At one point she mentioned that she really didn't want a divorce and started crying enough that she ran to the bathroom to compose herself. I'll take it for what it's worth, the time tiniest of steps because she's afraid of my driving (that scares her when D3 is with me) and divorce is still on (she thought I was served the other night). Nevertheless the last 3 days seem like a small amount of progress - no arguing.
I'll note for the record that her driving scares the bejeezus out of me as well.
Hey G8R. Just stopping in to catch up and see how things are going.
W may be getting upset because reality is setting in a bit, just remember actions before words.
Sounds like you are dealing with a lot and standing your ground. It''s not easy to stand up and speak your mind and hold your ground like you have been. It is hard for me too, when you do it tho it feels good after, good having some self respect and self worth come back to yourself.
Thanks Tyler12. Although my WW is still pushing for D, I'm still standing my ground, you're right. Difference is that I'm talking about it less and less. She knows exactly how I feel.
The past week has been the best in a long time. Our last argument was last Sunday. She got upset because I told her the D was solely her choice and I'm getting better at ignoring her spew (but not her) and walking away when I need to in order to avoid arguing. Even last Sunday, I didn't really argue with her. Just reiterated one time that it was her choice Nad dropped the topic like it was hot.
I sent to a support group for separated and divorced people at the church on Thursday. Almost didn't go because WW opened up to me a bit so I listened and validated. Probably the 1st time I was able to do that without mentioning hope for a future together. Interestingly, WW thought I was going out on another date. Nope, not even thinking about dating but I'm not going to correct her. She'll think what she wants no matter what I say.
Had a good time playing trivia with friends last night.
So fsr, so good today. Will be going to Disney on Ice in just a bit with D3 and WW. Here's my chance to shine, to show her that I'm a husband and father that only a fool would leave.
Need help. WW is being nice and wants us to talk about finances and splitting bills for this month. I know I have to do this. How do I do it with a smile on my face? I'm dying inside and I just want to crawl in a whole and hide.
Don't misinterpret her
niceness to be anything other than manipulation.
LBH'S are the softest group of live bodies I have ever seen. I suppose it's b/c they still have feelings for their WW and continue looking for the tiniest sign that the old W is showing through this horrible woman who has taken her place. So, when she changes her act from a witch to being nice, he falls for it, and her plan works. He melts into a puddle and she walks away with what she wants, leaving him bare.
Thanks sandi2. I hear what you're saying. I haven't misinterpreted it. My head tells me she still wants out of the M and me out of the house. I'm getting better at doing my own thing and showing indifference to her while still being nice. It certainly makes living together better and it's better for D3 when we don't fight.
At some point I believe I will need to leave. I just don't see her dumping the om without that. At same time, I can see that her having to see me daily is eating her up. Her physical, mental and emotional health have significantly deteriorated over the past 4 months. Of course she blames me, even goes so far as to say I'm making her sick and that it is my intention to make her sick. The reason she is so unhealthy is that she is stressed because her conscience is eating her alive. Dump the chump, return to work on the M and her health would begin to return but she won't see the solution. Easier to blame me.
I will say that most of the day with her went well. Although I thought we were going to see Disney on Ice, we saw Beauty and the Beast. Liked it much better than the cartoon. I was nice but certainly not clingy. Towards the end of our day together, she asked if there was something I wanted to say. Although there was (she thinks I'll watch D3 if she has to teach a night class, no chance), I said nope and redirected conversation.
Helped WW remove clutter from the house today. One of many things she's complained about for a long time. My feeling always was STFU and do something if it bothers you that much. Apparently it didn't because she never did anything about it so neither did I. Just like today, I would have helped (without her asking) if she had taken some initiative. If something bothers me, I do something about it rather than wait for someone else to do it so I figure other people are 5he same. Apparently not.
Felt a sense of accomplishment afterward and I didn't do it to impress the WW. I've always been one to help if she is working and I figured wwe're going to have to do this when we D anyway.
I did have to deal with some verbal jabs but that went ok. Let's see what happens tomorrow.
Sandi can you elaborate a little more about WW's being nice as manipulation and LBH's being a soft target. I am in a similar circumstance as Gr8t and suddenly my WW is being nice as in calling and chatting over the weekend or just send me a text about her day this weekend. I viewed it as hope. I was also worried it just maybe excitement about her upcoming move. Thanks
Sandi can you elaborate a little more about WW's being nice as manipulation and LBH's being a soft target. I am in a similar circumstance as Gr8t and suddenly my WW is being nice as in calling and chatting over the weekend or just send me a text about her day this weekend. I viewed it as hope. I was also worried it just maybe excitement about her upcoming move. Thanks
Well, another term might be "to butter up". I don't believe a WW will suddenly start treating the LBH nicely without an ulterior motive, b/c that is the nature of a WW. Everything is about
her. Selfishness drives her. She knows you better than anyone. She knows what makes you tick, what turns you on, etc. She also knows what to do to get you to do what she wants. Women have been doing it forever.
As long as she's wayward, the H needs to be cautious about seeing it as "hope" whenever she suddenly acts nice to him, b/c sooner or later she's going to hit him with whatever it is she wants from him. Some guys never catch on to what she's doing, and some do.
Thank you for the advice sandi2.
Busy week. Need to go to professional development tonight. Church tomorrow night and support group on Thursday.
Had a lot of anger and resentment today but didn't show it to WW. Also have gone 2 days without checking to see if my WW is active on FB instant messaging which is big step for me. Yay me!!!
Very structured thinking model. You are laying the issues nicely in your head. Thanks and Good luck.
I think you are doing a great job. I'm a bit ahead of you since I have a separation agreement signed and found my own place. You seem to be handling things better than I did and my hat off to you.
Thanks to all of you for the support. I really don't feel like I'm doing all that well (but maybe I am) so it is very nice to hear from others. Thank you.
Woke up this morning, the pain is still there in the background but the anger and resentment is not nearly as intense.
Was beautiful outside this morning walking the dog around 4:30 am. There was a light covering of powdery snow and I was the 1st to go through it. Always peaceful to see fresh snow, especially since it doesn't snow regularly where I'm living.
Having ok day. WW asked to go out to dinner for 2nd time in 3 days tonight. Turned her down both times. I was already cooking dinner on Monday and was going to church tonight. WW also invited me to the circus with D3 and her. I accepted that invitation. I don't think WW is interested in R but I do think she is feeling like she is losing me. Anyone have any thoughts?
Tonight she texted me, "Sorry you so fully hate me as you do these days, G8r (but used real name). Don't know it was ever avoidable. Maybe I shouldn't have asked about the circus. I won't ask you to join us in the future if you prefer."
I am so dying to respond to this on so many levels but no good will come of it. A.. I don't hate her, quite the opposite but I don't tell her I love her anymore. In fact, I really want to use one of her lines against her and tell her that I don't believe she ever loved me. B... It was avoidable!!!!! Don't have a F'ing A!!! Although I appreciate the invite to the circus, I was planning on taking D3 myself, but if she wants to pay I'm good.
Now I hear her walking around upstairs. Think she is trying to figure out what I'm doing. Not much. Cooked some snow crab for dinner at 9:30 pm. Don't usually eat that late but I didn't eat before I went to church tonight.
The past couple of nights I've begun to vacillate on whether I really want to be with her anymore. Rather than hope and pray for a R, I've begun praying to be able to forgive her when I move on without her because I'm no longer sure I'm interested in R even if she dumped the chump and showed some remorse. I'm not going to say or do anything rash because I want to do what is best for D3 1st and me 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc...
Lol. She just came downstairs to let me know it was chilly upstairs (she thought I had the heat turned up downstairs, I didn't, it's on a timer and set at 62 during the night). She also let me know that she messaged me on FB (same message I mention earlier in this post). Told her I know in the same manner than Han Solo tells Princess Leia when she tells him that she loves him.
Mostly journaling, but I would appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!!!
I would appreciate some advice / comments on my last post. Thank you.
hey
i think you need to respond. You cn simply say you appreciate the invites and just have made previous plans. I prob wouldn't mention the her thinking you hate her. let that go. then let her know you are looking forward to the circus. That is prob the truth, I mean it is a circus and your daughter! whats not to look forward too!
As far as thinking if you really want her or not, that is common. Your brain is processing all of this, still think you are in the very beginning of all of this and you will flip flop for a while on this. Eventually you will feel a lot longer one way or the other then it will coming crashing back the other way.
keep your head up. I think you must be doing well to have her thinking so much, but don't let that get to you. As quick as she gets like this she can turn the other way.
Until you hear her say the words about wanting to try then it is all her running on emotions.
I have no real advice from my own experience as I haven't had WW invite me to anything and she is now moved out. I am in the same place as you though, wondering if I want R when the dust settles.
I recommend you tread lightly in this situation tho. Personally I would still act as if and continue to DB. However that also involves validating and showing you care. It can be very hard not to jump at any scrap she throws to you.
I guess the best I can do to advise is keep with the program. Don't be cold to her.
Hopefully someone with more experience can help you through this
Keep up the positive changes my friend. It makes me happy to see the personal progress you have made
Thank you for the advice and encouragement otw and Tyler12.
I went back and saw that although I thanked her for the ticket, I was a bit aloof and I should have used the opportunity to validate her more (without going overboard on the praise). I also have thanked her for the other invites but I haven't specifically told her it was because I had other plans or that I was already doing something. I can see how that my come across as cold and that isn't what I want to show her.
Today's another day so I'll try to make adjustments and find that sweet spot between detaching and being nice to her.
Busy past couple of days. Felt bad on Thursday because I temporarily got drawn into a text argument with WW. I did call her out on her affair (she really believes that she isn't having an A because she believes the M is dead. When I didn't back down, she decided that I had been having an A with myself so it was ok for her to have one). I almost got drawn all the way in but God shut off my phone (IMO, it shut off and I couldn't turn it back on but it came back on 5 minutes later when WW texted me again) and I stopped responding. WW thought I was at ladies nigt picking up women Wednesday and Thursday nights when I was at church. Lol.
She was still mad Friday morning and I managed to get her even angrier by not telling her that I had Friday off. She walked into the MBR nude and freaked when I told her good morning. She wasnt expecting that. She had some choice words for me as I left to take D3 to daycare but my hearing isnt so good so I have no idea what she said, only that it likely wasn't nice given her tone and demeanor. I know I should eliminate the disrespect but then was not the time. I needed to get D3 out of the house so she doesn't hage to see that nonsense.
Helped a friend move yesterday.
Thought I'd be ok today but I'm a bit down. I am going to take D3 out to dinner instead of WW. We will have a great time. Not looming forward to later tonight. I'm going to have to address WW poor behavior when she gets home tonight but it needs to be addressed.
G8r
Made me chuckle about her walking in nude.
Are you feeling any different from a few days ago where you were going back n forth of really wanting to be with her anyway?
I know being the same house is a tough sitch as I am in this too and it is toxic
Yep. I'm still going back and forth as to whether I want to be with her. Big difference is that I know I'll be ok if she wants to leave. It will hurt but I've already begun to see new horizons.
Well. Looks like my WW hasn't cooled off since last Thursday. I asked her what time she would be home as I was about to give my D3 a bath this morning. She asked why and I told her I had an IC appointment. She said she couldn't make it as asked what I was going to do, was I going to cancel the appointment. I told her I would take care of it and I would see her when she returned from work. That was the wrong answer for her. She had to know what I was going to do. The more adamant she became, the less I was willing to tell her that I would call our day care provider to see if she could watch or I would just cancel the appointment. I screwed up by not telling her. I was frustrated with her and I let her get to me.
She blocked my D3 and I in the bathroom demanding to know and complaining how marrying me was the biggest mistake of her life. I remained calm but my D3 heard everything she had to say. I felt so bad for D3. I should have tried to leave the room since WW refused to leave. I feel like I failed to protect my D3 from WW anger and resentment. I also feel disgusted with myself for wanting to R with this woman that used to be my W.
I am sooooooo down today.
I want to call WW and ask her where we want wrong. Before the A, we agreed on just about everything and seldom had arguments. I thought we had a great relationship and now her anger and resentment oozes from every pore on her body and every word she speaks. I won't because it will likely only fuel her anger.
What really gets me is that she is projecting her feelings on me and telling me how my anger towards her and my hatred of her is hurting our D3. I walk away, I ignore it for the most part (but have told her it is unacceptable to express in front of D3) and I pray to accept her decisions and to be able to forgive her. What else can I do? Is there anything else I can do?
I am miserable today.
She blocked my D3 and I in the bathroom demanding to know and complaining how marrying me was the biggest mistake of her life. I remained calm but my D3 heard everything she had to say. I felt so bad for D3. I should have tried to leave the room since WW refused to leave. I feel like I failed to protect my D3 from WW anger and resentment.
wow....you have to be kidding me. How about asking her to never do that again in front of your kids? YOu have a long fuse ......put up some boundries and tell her to never talk in front of thekids about your R.
Hi rich4j. I have told her and I told her again today that her behavior was unacceptable and she needed to leave. She responded by getting in my face and daring me to hit her. Believe me, I would have loved to lay the smack down but that is not something I want to teach D3 and it would have gotten me arrested. Instead, I turned my back to her and started my phone recording. L said the state in which I reside is 1 person consent so I figured let her spew.
If I had been in a different room, I would have taken D3 and left but besides WW blocking the door (daring me to touch her) D3 was on the porcelain throne. I really didn't feel comfortable leaving her with WW at that time. I also realize my WW is very conniving but she doesn't realize how conniving I can be. She has always let it be known that she can be conniving. I always have felt it best not to advertise that type of information. Let them find out after the fact.
Some people may say that I should have threatened to call the police. I was trying to diffuse the situation. Calling would have exacerbated the sitch and my WW has already threatened to have the sheriff remove me from the house so I have no doubt she is ready to lie to accomplish that if the police came.
All of this has made me reconsider our custody sitch. Initially, I was willing to let D3 live with WW because she used to be a good mother and she had a more flexible schedule. I think I will look into full custody and let her have supervised visits since she can't seem to hold her tongue or hide her anger and resentment.
Anyone have any advice?
Hi rich4j. She responded by getting in my face and daring me to hit her. Believe me, I would have loved to lay the smack down but that is not something I want to teach D3 and it would have gotten me arrested.
All of this has made me reconsider our custody sitch. Initially, I was willing to let D3 live with WW because she used to be a good mother and she had a more flexible schedule. I think I will look into full custody and let her have supervised visits since she can't seem to hold her tongue or hide her anger and resentment.
Wow. Sorry for the sitch but I think your WW may be cousins of mine :-) Has gotten in my face but not the hitting comment. that is out of control and you should record this. Document it and let your lawyer know
Custody from what I am learning is different across the board depending on state/situation. I would also consult the L but there is legal joint custody (joint decisions on braces, relgion etc...) and then physical custody...(at least in my state). I would document, journal every day with d3...the time you spend, what you do vs her etc.....if you want to have full custody. Keep a documented record of every day and consult with your L
We have a bit of similar situations and I am not sure if she plans on moving out (I can't recall your entire sitch) or you are? Being in the same house seems to be a toxic mix as I am experiencing this myself...anger, resentment, and having this around any children is tough. I hope you can get some peace and protect D3 from experiencing anything detrimental
Thank you for the support rich4j. We have joint and legal custody in the state that I live. I originally was prepared to go 50/50 with her being primary but I am reconsidering. I haven't hired a L but I have spoken to 3 different ones. I was going to go with middle ground (and I still may) but the shark is looking better each day.
I haven't recorded what each of us does with D3 but that sounds like a good idea. I tend to do activities with her while WW sirs her in front of the TV.
All 3 Ls said to stay in the home but I need to reconsider. I was waiting to be served before making a final decision on which L to hire but I am beginning to think, why am I waiting for WW to come to her senses. She isn't any time soon and she may never come to them again.
The home sitch is toxic now. My WW was complaining that it was toxic to her and I kind of shrugged and thought to myself that the only reason it was toxic was because she was having an A and acting like a brat. Seems like since she is miserable, she has taken it upon herself to make everybody else miserable as well. The thing that irks me the most is that she isn't completely oblivious to what she is doing to D3. She sees; however, she chooses to blame me for it rather than take any responsibility. She always has had a troubled relationship with her mother yet she becomes more and more like her each day. One of these days she will wake up and realize that she has created the same dynamic between her and our D3. Only then it will be too late. The irony.
That's horrible G8r!! I have had an angry wife too. Honestly where do they get off being so angry! We on the other hand have every right to be angry. I find myself swinging from a rage to extreme sadness to being hopeful. My only suggestion is to reread sandi's rules and the boundaries cheat sheet. Good luck my friend and stay strong!!
Thank you for the support TimR. I'm not sure why they feel entitled to be so angry. I get the impression that my WW'S conscience is eating her alive. She looks like a crap. She is emotionally, physically and mentally drained. She now also has regular headaches and seems to be physically sick every other week (which she has blamed me for as well). I so want to tell her that her stress would drop and her health would improve if she just dumped the chump (om). That would be the logical conclusion but WW is in complete denial, so much so that she doesn't even believe she is having an A. She reasons that the M was dead so her outside relationship doesn't count as an A. WTF.
OMG we are in almost the identical situation! I first caught my W on social media and brought it to her attention. She acted like I hurt her by accusing her. Then I investigated more and confronted her again. That time she got angry with me about it and still denied. Then my youngest stepson told me about her sending selfies to the guy and reading the "I love you" text from trailer park boy. I confronted her again and she accused me of putting the youngest up to spying on her. Then I tracked down where the guy lives and caught her car there. I took a picture of it and then text it to her. She called me a stalker! and still denied cheating. She actually told me that she wished I knocked on the door so I could see they were all hanging out and then got mad at me when I said you realize if I knocked on the door your bf would be dead right now and I would be in jail.
Just like your W mine has always taken great pride in her appearance and now she just looks really, really run down. Mine doesn't even do her nails anymore. She looks just exhausted and sick. Of course that was blamed on me too.
I have pulled way back and just today she called me just to chat, which I took the call and then oddly sent me a text a few hours later. I chose to ignore the text. Per going dark I don't want her to think I am there at her beck and call. It seems to be working but who knows what tomorrow will bring??
Wow TimR!!! I am truly grateful that my WW'S A is with om in different state 8 to 10 hours away because I would definitely confront the om. That took some intestinal fortitude for you not to confront him. Funny thing about my WW is that although she denies having an A, she doesn't nothing to hide it. She truly believes that what she is doing is not an A and it's not only in her best interest but also in the best interest of D3. And she calls me crazy? Aye, aye, aye....
Glad to hear you feel you are having some success pulling back. Just be careful and don't read too much into it. I thought I was having a bit of success by pulling back last week because I got 2 dinner invitations and an invite to the zoo. I was happy but not excited and then on Thursday I was unable to ignore her verbal jabs and got pulled into an argument which has fester ed through yesterday even with her gone Friday night through Sunday night. Another day, so back to the drawing board.
WW'S frostiness thawed a little bit over the past 2 days. Got my f ivorced and separated support group to go to tonight. I'm really starting to look forward to going. Not that I didnt previously, but it's becoming a bigger highlight of my week.
On other hand, WW hasn't reinstated my invitation to go to the circus tomorrow. Not sure if she even remembers because she was talking about how busy she WAS AND she also had to pack. Although I will miss my.D3 this weekend, I'm also looking forward to having g the house to myself. I need to catch up on some rest. If my WW wasn't planning and filed for D, there are a bunch of projects that I would tackle. No sense now since we both seem to agree that she'll stay and I'll leave when D final.
Need help / advice. WW thinks I'm going to Lady's night and picking up women when I go to divorce support group at church. Tonight she said, oh I forgot it's date night. Enjoy. Should I tell her truth or let her continue thinking I'm dating? I would tell truth if she asked but she hasn't. Advise?
G8r
Hit the IGNORE button. None of her buisness...let her think what she wants....
You have no obligation to tell her squat
I'm making tons of my own mistakes here, but isn't that one goal of GAL'ing? Don't you want the WAS to notice all the things you do without sitting at home pining away for them? I agree with rich, I say ignore.
Is she going to believe anything you tell her?
Is it worth getting into an argument over?
Does your GAL need to be approved by her?
Will it make anything better if she believes your going to support group?
Just some questions that came off the top of my head. If you answer yes to all then tell her. If not then let her think what she likes.
Thank you rich4j, broke and Tyler12. I tend to agree with all 3 of you. You are right. I want her to be thinking about me and she will likely continue to think and believe what she wants.
My only worry is that I feel like I'm being deceptive. Rather than a lie of commission, I feel as if this is a lie of omission. I guess sometimes I have the need to be more honest than I really need to be. I think my best option is to ignore her comments but tell her the truth if she ever decides to ask me rather than making up stories to help her justify leaving the marriage. Thank you!!!!
I agree I would let her wander and if in the future you have a civil/calm conversation with W, tell her the truth. But if she is hurling accusations at you, don't respond. How are you doing otherwise?
Stay. I blew it. When I saw a confirmation that the W had L'd up and filed divorce - the very same day I found confirmation of the OM I snapped. I grabbed a bunch of clothes and left to try to collect myself.
To her, that meant I had moved out. She changed all the locks a week later.
She had been planning to move, but who knows how long that would have taken. There was a chance, no matter how slight something, anything might have started to work to turn it around.
Now, I have zero contact. The L's are between us. Attempting to implement any of the DR stuff will be hard - she'll never see it or hear about it.
Your situation sounds so very similar. There was no intimacy, and I assumed and believed her rather than understanding it was some sort of twisted "test". Just understand it's possible you've been set up for failure. At least in my case the W had been planning things much further back than I realized.
Perhaps if I'd have pursued her when she moved out of the MBR things would have turned around, but perhaps not. Sadly, I'll never know.
Sandi has some great insights into WW's, unfortunately they're all pretty ugly.
Thank you for stopping by TimR and 1313. I was leaning towards not saying anything and that seems to be the concensus here on the board. Sorry to hear you have made so many mistakes 1313. We all have. If we hadn't, I doubt we would be here, particularly on a Saturday night. Lol.
I have up and down days TimR. Had a good Friday night. Went out for some beers and trivia with friends and came in 2nd place. We're going to the tournament of Champions for trivia tomorrow.
I went to take a look at Montessori school for D3 today. It was really cool but a bit pricey so WW and I will be looking at a few other alternatives. WW invited me to lunch afterwards to talk about it. Conversation was all right initially but then WW asked me about taking D3 with her to her mother's house over spring break. She asked me if I wanted her to meet me in my parent's city on my weekend that week, which was code for I want to see the om who lives about 2 hours away from her mother's house rather than the 9 or 10 hours from our house. Don't really know if I messed up or not but I told her that D3 was not to see the om and that's where things nose dived. She became defensive. I responded that she has done that previously and I didn't want it to happen again to which she responded that I forced her to take our D3. I almost lost it but I took a deep breath and told her that I never have forced her to do anything. She started spewing so I just STFU. She thinks I was angry so she banned me from going to the circus with D3 and her for a 2nd time (I got reinstated after 1st ban). I continued with the STFU and thought WW began to mellow otw home because she was asking me how I used to treat ear infections that I got. But she wasn't done. Shortly after getting home (we still live together) she texted me to say that it was sad that I can't get along with her enough to be there for our kid. She really wanted me to go with them to the circus for D3 but she would not subject her to my anger. Lol. She was the one who was angry, not me. In the past I would have responded but I ignored her text. Later she texted me to complain that I didn't thank her for lunch but she was willing to let that slide and wanted to know if I wanted to have pizza with them for dinner. I took the opportunity to validate. Told her that she was right, I should have thanked her for lunch and then thanked her. Followed up by saying no thanks for dinner. She was still angry with me when she left but had calmed down by time she returned with pizza and offered me a slice. I declined. A little later, our friend called to see if I was going with them to the trivia tournament of Champions tomorrow. Said I didn't know and asked my WW the status of going to circus tomorrow. She was still ambivalent so I told friend that I was going to trivia.
WW started complaining that I don't communicate with her after I got off the phone. I told her that I didn't need to communicate with her because it wasn't related to our D3, particularly since I was ready to bail on trivia to spend time with D3 at circus. Was I wrong to not communicate in this instance? I don't think so but I would like opinions. A bit later I heard my WW'S stomach make a sound and asked her about it. She said excuse me, sorry for the noise. I asked her if she was ok so she proceeded to tell me that she didn't have to tell me because it wasn't related to D3. Oh well. I told her good night. I hope you feel better and left it at that.
This bit of ignoring her and responding in positive friendly manner feels really good and powerful to me. I feel good about myself and don't kick myself for saying stupid things out of anger to her like I did previously. Good stuff.
Looking forward to trivia tournament of Champions tomorrow. Woo! Hoo!
WW puzzles me. She wants divorce are tries to bait me into arguments but then she texts me and asks if I want sushi since she is with D3 getting dinner. She has been a bundle of mixed messages since this all began. I'm not reading into it but mmm... mmm.... sushi is good.
Really sad today. WW'S L mailed D paperwork. WW didn't want to have sheriff serve them if it wasn't needed. Guess I'll need to retain q of the 3 L that I interviewed. Grrrrr.... I was really hoping she would dump the chump and return to the M. I realize it's not necessarily over but it sure feels that way. Overcast day sure doesn't help.
So sorry to hear about that G8r. That has got to be hard and I can't say I am not expected something of the sort in the near future. Heck her mom will probably pay for her lawyer.
However, you are right, that does not mean that it is over. I struggle with this myself, questions of when do I know its over, when is it actually healthy for me to admit to myself there is nothing more I can do. I guess the answer for both of us is to work on us and eventually we will know.
I was really hoping she would dump the chump and return to the M. I realize it's not necessarily over but it sure feels that way. Overcast day sure doesn't help.
Sorry for your day and the realization and punch in the gut is real. I felt it a few weeks ago. It feels like the reality check you really didn't want to feel.....which is hurtful
As some have posted, it doesn't mean it is over as its just paper and legalese but it is hurtful
She may still dump the chump on day and want to return but all you can focus on now is anything but that and head forward. Easier said than done my friend but you can do it.
Thanks for the support rich4j and TimR. I really need it today. I've really wanted to tell my WW how much I love her and ask her what's changed between us. Just last July we were making plans for the future and working on a 2nd kid. That seems like years ago now.
Doesn't look like my WW is really all that happy either.
My D3 just came and gave me a hug. It hit the spot but at the same time it almost made me cry. Got to go pay attention to D3.
G8r,
I am so sorry you got the papers. It was such a nosedive for me when they came - one of the worst days (along with the bomb drop and finding out about A). And, I can tell you I begged and pleaded after they arrived for a reconciliation and it made it worse. I am right there with you - it feels very final when those papers come especially because my H has an OW like your W has OM. But, I still have hope. Trying to focus on db'ing for myself though and moving away from the hope. But, I know that will take a lot of time. Hope spending time with D3 makes you feel better. Thinking of you.
Got served in January. It gets better- trust me.
You are a few steps behind her when you get the papers. Time to catch up.
Tough things to think about, but you need to: child placement, where the $$$ is, where it's going to go, kid's assets, 401k money contributions, parenting plan, etc.
What do you WANT? And what can you live with? Make a list of those things.
You can only control what is within you, your actions, and how you relate to your kids. I'd go absolutely, completely dark with the wife. Need to show how it will be divorced.
Complete GAL/DB'ing is now needed.
Hi broke. Thank you for the support. The earlier hug from D3 was the perfect remedy but also my biggest rope. I hate the thought of not seeing her everyday and how much of her growing up I will miss because she is growing soooooo fast. I know I'll have plenty of opportunities to spend time with her but it's not the same. It will all become regimented and that is not the type of person I am. I prefer spontaneity and flying by the seat of my pants. It drives my WW crazy (always has) but that's how I roll.
I thought about talking R or at least different homes separation today but resisted the temptation. Didn't see how it would help. LLike you I have some hope left, some days more than others.
Hi Trumpet. Thanks for the support. Sorry to see that your sitch took a downturn. I had more hope for you than myself. Thanks for the reminder of the many things I'm going to need to do. Always have been a procrastinator so perhaps that will be a 180 for me. We'll see what happens. Things have a way of working out for the best in the end or at least that's my new hope. Tomorrow is the time to start making it happen. Need some rest tonight.
I'm sorry G8r.
It's still not over unless you say it is. Keep standing for your M if you believe in it.
Focus and you and D3 and back away from W for right now. Let her notice your absence. You can still be cordial but find things away from W to keep you busy.
Hang in there.
G8r. I am sorry for the sitch you are in. Have a look back at the positives that the whole thing has brought out in you! We started here about the same time and you have made amazing step into becoming the man a fool would leave.
I fully understand how hard it is when you don't see your children every day. Believe me. I won't sugar coat it, it's hard. The positive that does come out of it, you are never satisfied with an ok day with them ever again. Every moment from here out is a wonderful gift with D3. I know you have been rocking it in the dad department, this gives you the drive to be better than you ever thought you could be for her. Be her lighthouse, her beacon.
You are an amazing person, each day is a new adventure. Make the best of it
Got served in January. It gets better- trust me.
You are a few steps behind her when you get the papers. Time to catch up.
Tough things to think about, but you need to: child placement, where the $$$ is, where it's going to go, kid's assets, 401k money contributions, parenting plan, etc.
It was very tough for me too. My WW gave me a 20 minute warning before the process server showed up. My S11 was there too, he read the papers so that he realizes who's breaking up our family.
Re: 401k contribution: I didn't think about that. I should stop all contributions now right? Because it will just benefit WW.
The worst part about all this is it's done by the person that cheated on my marriage, and now is trying to make me look like the bad guy. I feel sick just thinking about it.
Thank you for the support and encouragement Thorton, Tyler12 and CWOL.
I plan to continue standing for my M Thorton but I'm not sure how much longer. I've always kind of felt that once we are ddivorced that would be it. Although we still live in the same house, I have cut waaaaŕay back on interacting with WW. I try to be cordial and not be cold and indifferent to her but I think she perceives my communications with her as cold and distance. Any suggestions for remaining cordial?
Thank you so much for your kind words Tyler12. I really needed them yesterday evening so thank you. I really appreciated and value them. I'm doing my best to be a lighthouse and beacon for D3. She already feels the frostiness of the D (not from either of us towards her) because I WW has so much anger and resentment towards me and she has trouble hiding it. She projects that anger to me and then blames my anger for D3's problems. Grrrrrrrr....
I'm so sorry to hear your WW is trying to make you the bad guy, CWOL. That stinks and is so unfair. My WW often gets mad at me and complains that I am trying to make her the bad guy by refusing to say that the D is partially my idea. I refuse to take ownership of that because I still don't want it. I told my WW early on that the only way I would be ok with a D was if we made an honest attempt to R and it still didn't work out. That never happened so the D is completely on her. That's not to say I'm shirking responsibility for problems in our M. I'm not. We both ccontributed to our problems. It's just that she has chosen to blow everything up because working is too hard. It's easier to run from problems than confront t problems.
My WW often gets mad at me and complains that I am trying to make her the bad guy by refusing to say that the D is partially my idea. I refuse to take ownership of that because I still don't want it. I told my WW early on that the only way I would be ok with a D was if we made an honest attempt to R and it still didn't work out. That never happened so the D is completely on her. That's not to say I'm shirking responsibility for problems in our M. I'm not. We both ccontributed to our problems. It's just that she has chosen to blow everything up because working is too hard. It's easier to run from problems than confront t problems.
I could've written this exact paragraph to describe my situation. When I got the papers, my S12 said "well just don't sign them or the court can deny the divorce because we should be a family". Not only was it devastating for me but for my sons, too. And, I absolutely hate splitting up the time with my kids also. It makes me so sad that we can't take family vacations and the kids are shuttled back and forth.
I am still db'ing for myself and my M. But, I so understand how you feel. It is heartbreaking - like you are on a runaway train and you can't do anything to stop it. Know that you are not alone in your sadness, G8r. I hope today is a better day.
I hear you broke. I'm sure your sitch is not only hard on you but your son as well. I see how it's affecting my D3. One of the things that aggravates me the most is how my WW thinks what she is doing is good for D3. While I agree that it isn't good for D3 to see and hear us argue, I sincerely doubt we would be arguing if she wasn't having an A. Prior to her A, we very rarely argued because we were so compatible. Furthermore, are current arguments are all related to her A. She also says it's important for our D3 to see her happy and in a healthy relationship. Wtf. Showing our D3 that running away from problems is ok and having an A is ok are good things? She won't answer and switches back to the importance of happiness. Grrrrrr. ...
And to think, one of the things that I use to love about her was how rational she always seem to be.
Addicts act like addicts, G8r.
And right now she is addicted to OM.
You can throw rational right out the window.
You're right Thorton. Telling myself that she is an addict has been something that I've done to help myself forgive and release some of my anger and resentment. Not all of it. Lol. But some of it.
There's some pretty good neuroscience research to support that idea.
I completely agreed with you:
- rarely argued until bomb drop
- never good to show kids you bail when things get tough
- I thought my H was logical and rational too!
It's almost scary how similar a lot of our stories are!
I think one of the hardest things is the rewriting of history to justify the affair. Of course things were so bad we were going to get a divorce anyway. It really wasn't the affair. It was because we had all these problems. Which were never discussed until after the affair started. So frustrating that we as LBS can see the pattern but they can't! The addiction to OP is too strong.
Hope you are feeling better tonight.
It really is amazing how they all say the same thing. And we have to sit in limbo waiting for a fog to clear while trying to work on our sleves, when really we aren't the ones with the big problems that need to be addressed.
I'm sure others feel this way too but I'm super annoyed that I'm not even given the chance to improve myself when it comes to relationship troubles. I can't work on validation and non-judgemental when I'm by myself really. I can recognize the problem and try, but without practice, change isn't really possible
Sparks you can work on validation without him. You can do it in everyday life! Heck you can do it in this forum. Thornton is great at it, read his posts to others!
I can (and am as much as I'm able since I'm still new and learning everyone's sitch and ropes), but in the heat of a disagreement, when one of us is trying to tell the other that they're wrong, is when I would fall apart. I would take it personally that he went out of his way to prove me wrong and yet I ended up doing the same thing , or worse just telling him his idea was stupid (I never called him stupid but he always took it that way and since I am educationally "smarter" it was always a sore point. I always apologized when I did that but that wasn't enough apparently).
Things like that, I can recognize as things I don't want to do and I can prepare for how I'd handle the situation but until you're there, it's all just talk.
Just annoyed I was never given the chance to do better, as I'm sure everyone here is. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...etc"
So I see some things that you can turn into goals to work on.
Tell us more about your fights with H. Would you both scream and yell at each other? Name calling? Did you ever resolve conflict or would you both just retreat to your respective corners?
Until recently we actually fought really well if that's a thing. We had a rule that we never went to bed until everyone had their chance to speak. We very seldom went to bed angry. We never slept in seperate beds. We discussed more than fought. Never screamed, never said things just to hurt each other. We started to fight differently recently (probably should have been a clue). He would test me on things. For instance one of the biggest fights we had was over a stupid Xbox controller. He wanted this $150 controller. I thought spending that kind of money was ridiculous and we're kind of tight on it. So he agreed and we agree to discuss it again later once the controller had been out for a while. Seemed like a good compromise (I wanted some reviews to show it was worth the money). The without telling me, he asked everyone to give him money for Xmas for it. I was hurt that after this great compromise, he went behind my back to get what he wanted. We fought about it, j said stupid things like its our Xmas money, not his. And that the controller was a stupid waste of money. He has now taken this fight to be everything wrong with our relationship. He shut down, wouldn't talk about it anymore. Come Jan, the reviews were in, I got my loan money and I felt bad cause I knew I had been kind of ridiculous so I bought him the controller as a surprise present. He took it badly, saying I was just trying to placate him or something.
Basically,
He stopped talking to me when he had a problem with me and started talking to OW who of course encouraged him to leave me.
Clarification: when I mentioned him thinking I called him stupid, that is really a recent problem. He never took it personally in the last or if he did, he told me and I apologized and explained that that was not my intent and I don't believe he is stupid at all.
I think our fighting changed when I started to really fall into my depression. I would get snippier and would just give up and walk away more, repress more. I guess he started doing the same. Knowing as much as I do about depression from my education, this is actually a pretty classic sign. And I'm getting treatment and can already feel some of the depressive fog lifting even despite everything that's going on. I get out of bed each day and do things because I want to, not because I have to.
Oh!!!! I forgot all about the revisionist history. Initially I would show my WW texts and pictures that provide clear and convincing evidence to refute my WW's revisionist history. That only caused her to dig in further and to look harder for anything supporting her position. Horrible idea on my part in hindsight because my need to be right only made stuff between us worse. Eventually are started reminding myself that I rather be married than right. It helped but I allowed a lot of damage to occur that I could have prevented if I had STFU. The revisionist history still bothers me but I don't let her see it bother me to the best of my abilities.
Sparks, you can practice without the H around. Like TimR mentioned, Thornton is very good at it. I also practice it with my D3. One day she will be a teenage girl and I know I will have big problems if I ignore her feelings. Doesn't mean that I give in and let her stay up late or have fries for dinner, but I acknowledge that is what she wants and feels she needs. Lol. It just occurred to me that dealing with my WW can be seen as great practice for future interactions with my D3. ROFL.
I also hear you about arguing with your S. Things change. I met my WW on Eharmony and we seldom disagreed about anything let alone fight. It wasn't that I was passive and gave her anything she wanted, we just were sooooooo compatible it was scary. I don't even have to be arguing with her now for her to think I'm taking a shot at her. That also alludes to her revisionist history because she knows I'm like Horton, the elephant. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I'm faithful 100%. As an aside, that has become one of my favorite books to D3.
Depression also can contribute to the fighting. People tend to take things more personally when they're depressed and they have a shorter fuse. Glad to hear you are working on that SparkSB.
Took D3 to circus tonight. She had a blast and I had fun watching her.
Almost didn't make it though. WW initiated relationship talk tonight right before leaving. She made extra food and asked if I wanted any. No thank you. She asked if I would eat it over the weekend while she was away. No thank you. Then she asked if I ever liked her food. Told her I used to live her food and still like it but I'm not interested in eating it. That led to her asking if I got the papers and that it's not what she wants but I never listened to her and now there is no hope. I didn't whine and beg her to come back but I also didn't do a good of Dbing and affirmation. I blew a good opportunity to make a little progess. Interestingly, she also mentioned that she felt that she had to be the man in the relationship, which is true to an extent. I let her pay bills and run the house because she is controlling and it I thought it made my life easier. She also didn't like that I didn't take her out enough and initiate activities with her. Sounds like stuff I'll need to work on. Actually those were things I wanted to change but I don't see any current opportunities to show her change in those areas other than doing things with D3.
I sooooooo wanted to reopen the discussion when I returned from the circus but didn't. Figured it would make me look needed than I already feel. Guess I need some more self reflection.
Believe nothing they say, buddy.
Also, have a plan for the next time she brings up R talk. Validate.
When you have a plan, you won't be caught off guard.
Good point Thornton. Here is my problem. What kind of plan? I don't know where to start or what to address.
Have your validation ready to go when she talks about R.
You already know what she's going to say when she brings up R, right?
"It will never work" "We're too broken" "ILYBINILWY"
Go to Wonka's validation page and have responses ready to go for anything she can say.
G8r, I agree with Thornton. If she brought it up once you know it will come up again. If you do some self reflection you will probably know what she will say. Be ready to be detached, that anything she does say will not create a reaction from you (i.e. tears or defensiveness) and think of how you will respond. However, do not initiate the R talk yourself, let her bring it to you. It sounds as though she is still playing the blame game. Yes some of her statements may be true, but what did she do to communicate this was bothering her prior to separating. Maybe you let her handle the finances but if it bothered her she should have spoken up in a way to get your attention.
G8r,
I agree with Thornton and TimR about being ready for the next time. Vanilla is helping me on my thread set boundaries and it is helping me look at future situations and how I can handle them. You may want to take a look? I know it is helping me. My BIL called last night and wants to see my boys and I panicked. I was worried about how to handle it. But, I have a plan, so I called him back this morning, was pleasant and we set up a dinner for tomorrow night. I feel much more prepared. Now, I don't know if it will go according to my plan :-). But, at least, if you think about the situations ahead of time, you may be able to minimize getting off the DB track.
Based on Thornton's advice to you, I am also going to take a look at Wonka's validation page.
Thank you Thornton, TimR and broke. I have read the validation cheat sheet and have used it effectively when texting but not as effective when speaking directly. WW also complains that I'm patronizing her when I validate.
Ex. ILYBINILWY and It will never work - I understand that you love me but aren't in love with me. I appreciate that you feel it will never work between us. Respond like that and just that?
Although I leave like that when texting, I think I fail when speaking directly because I throw an occasional "but..." into the conversation. The "but" suggests I'm defending and minimizes the effectiveness of my validation.
Btw, I was reading your page and saw the boundary drafts. Good stuff. I should take my own advice that I quote from Sun Szu's The Art of War, "Failing to prepare is the same as preparing to fail".
I think WWs don't know how to react with you validate. I think the anger they have in them, needs to come out so when you do not engage and validate instead, they do not get the reaction they want from you. It make them spin so in order to pull you into the conflict they want they try attacking your validation.
I feel exactly the same way, Tim. Validating by text is so much easier than thinking on my feet in a conversation. I'm trying to practice with others. But it is so hard to change how I interact with others. I definitely use "but" all the time and it destroys any validating I tried to do. I need a class on validation :-)! It would help with teenagers too!
What about "I'm sorry that you feel that way"? Then see how she responds. What have you said in the past to this? I know I said something like "of course not because we've been together for 25 years and we need to work on it". Not exactly validating.
I'm trying to break the habit of saying, "I'm sorry you feel that way." I've apologizes waaaaŕay to many times and IMO it negates her feelings. I'm interested in other people's interpretation.
Although I've said I'm sorry you feel that way when she says things won't work between us, I now say, "I know that's how you feel" or "I realize that you feel that way" or "I see how you would feel that way. (best option) based on how emotional vs. detached I am at that moment.
G8r,
I like the best option. I agree with you - I've apologized way too much too. But, I didn't like the "I understand" or "I appreciate" because I don't really think it fits the ILYBINILWY.
Question. WW is upset with me because I didn't invite her to go with D3 and I to the circus last night. Last week my WW invited me to go and bought tickets for us. We didn't go because D3 and WW weren't feeling well. Should I have invited WW to circus last night? If so, should I apologize? I'll also note that WW had banned me from going at one point after buying the tickets because she got angry with me and then accused me of always being angry with her.
I responded earlier to her that I can't and won't pretend we are a family. I wanted to and would like to in the future but I don't see that happening. We need to be a family to do things as family. I feel bad that you see things differently. Have a good weekend and a safe trip. Good response or no? Any and all comments are appreciated.
Remind me... does your W still want to seperate? Or are things in a holding pattern right now?
I got D paperwork earlier this week. However, I do believe she is unsure of her decision. I think she feels she doesn't want a divorce but feels there is no hope and she has no choice.
G8r,
Sounds like your W is like mine.
Be very careful. I used any movement towards me as indication that she was back to wanting us together. In truth, she was wayward the whole time, but with guilt bouts in-between. I truly think that my W has to go full PA with OM and we'll be D soon to make that happen.
Couldn't live in limbo any longer. Had to make a stand, and move on. I will reconcile, but only if W is 100% there, with actions, consistent actions, for a couple months.
What has she said she's so unsure about?
Hi Trumpet. I have shared your up and downs. I was excited for you when your W appeared to want to R and now I feel sorrow for the turn towards D in your relationship. I still have hope for you.
Regarding your question, there have been things said and unsaid. When my WW 1st told me about the om, she said she would have been willing to work on us if he wasn't in the picture. A few weeks ago she said she didn't want a divorce and then she added that it was because she was afraid of the way I drive and she thought I might injure D3 with my driving (I've never had an accident that was my fault nor have I been involved in any big accidents, WW can't say the same to either of those claims). WW also is upset about me not inviting her to circus with D3 even though she invited me and got a ticket for me before selling them because she and D3 were sick that day. I mentioned something about her wanting the D and she said she never wanted a D but she has no hope. I'm kicking myself for that one because I missed a great chance to validate her feelings. In fact, she mentions something similar each time I remind her that she is the one that wants a D and I will not take ownership of wanting a D.
I also have heard from my in laws that she still loves me but doesn't think things will work between us. Similarly, our day care provider doesn't believe she wants a D. She believes she feels stuck and her pride won't let her back away from this course of action. I also see it in her. She looks and feels like crap. She claims to be happy but she looks hurt and miserable everyday. Her A is taking a toll on her physical health. I never have seen her get as sick as regularly as she has the past 6 months. She has regular migraines and sinus problems. She has had a low grade ear infection that she has been complaining about for 2 months. She seems to catch a cold every other week and she claims to have the same symptoms as D3 any time D3 isn't feeling well.
Although my WW has always struggled with her weight and dieting (I've always known she will never be a size 16 and I am ok with that) she has completely let her weight go. Cookies, cake and chocolate hage become a regular staple of her diet. Part of our initial problem is that my WW has never really believed that I'm attracted to her because of by her weight. I would never have dated her let alone ask her to marry me if that was the case. Although I've always been supportive of her dieting, I've never encouraged her to diet.
Lastly, I just have a gut feeling. My only worry is that she won't be interested in possible R until after D. That will be too late. I plan to move forward with my life without her in it at that point. I guess both my WW and I are both stubborn and want things done are way. That reminds me, I need to work on my pride.
Went to see D lawyer today to respond to WW's D complaint. WW hit the ceiling and has been spewing all evening long. She acc y sedan me of lying because we were going to do this without lawyers and then she hired one and expected me to use her L. She has accused me of not communicating with her because I don't tell her everything she wants to know. She told my D3 that Daddy makes pool choices and there will be consequences. She still thinks I never loved her and everything I do is to stress her intentionally. Admittedly, I know that not telling details about activities stresses her but that is a consequence that she needs to deal with. I'm not going to tell her where I go and we hen I'll be home with D3. As far as I'm concerned, she doesn't need to know. Too bad if it bothers her. I dont say anything but it bothers me that she sits D3 in front of the TV while she texts away with the om. It bothers me that she feeds my D3 junky fast food instead of cooking a real meal, It bothers that she has started buying her gifts a couple of times a week, particularly since she has always complained about the clutter in our house and how much she detests her mother trying to buy her love instead of listening to her and spending time with her. In other words, my WW has become what she has always detested, her mother. Mind you, any if the things in and b of themselves and / or in moderation wouldn't bother me. It is the hypocrisy and excess of it, plus I'm ranting a bit. Grrrrr.....
Sorry to hear about your evening G8r. Sounds like she is just looking to start a fight with you. Keep validating and keep your boundaries. If your boundaries are not well defined, trying writing them out here and asking for feedback. Decide what the consequences are if the boundaries are crossed. Then stick to them. This is a very hard thing to do. I keep trying and as she evolves I can feel myself get sucked in. Some times I do ok recognizing it and getting out, sometimes I get sucked in despite saying to myself, stop you are engaging.
Good luck to you G8r, I am sending you wishes of strength!
Thanks TimR. I was really frustrated tonight so it was hard to validate but I did. Only I'm much better when texting than in person. WW even commented that she doesn't believe my texts because they are so different from our personal interactions. To some extent that is true so I need to continue practicing until my personal validations are as good as my text validations.
Don't really see that it will change anything with WW, but I suspect it will do wonders for my future interactions with D3 as she grows older and the next lucky lady in my future.
Great looking at the positive G8r. I struggle with the same thoughts and think of the same conclusions. Is this whole process not really for W but for a new unlucky lady in the future... However, I also wander if I will be able to risk this pain again in the future.
I also have heard from my in laws that she still loves me but doesn't think things will work between us.
Don't read too much into this. My WW says the same thing, it is to justify the fact she's left me and continue to communicate with OM even though everyone disapproves of it.
ROFL, TimR, unlucky lady. I needed that laugh. I wonder about pain in the future as well. Mostly whether or not I can bare going through this pain again for my WW. However, I am now better able to relate to the pain my WW expressed to me shortly after BD when I was still begging and pleading with her. I remember her telling me that she still had feelings for me but she didn't know if she could reopen her heart to me. She felt unappreciated, unloved and unattractive as result of my neglect. It didn't matter that I was ready to try because she had shut herself down to me. I better get where she is coming from now. I no longer know for sure how I would respond if she suddenly had an epiphany. Although I still hope for R, I don't know if that is what I really want anymore. I still love my W and I think it is by FAR the best outcome for D3 but is it the best outcome for me. Do I want to risk the pain? I guess that is a question I would love to have rather than thinking in hypotheticals.
No pain, no gain, I suppose. Got to work those emotional muscles.
I hear you CWOL. I try not to read too much into it. Mostly wishful thinking I suppose, but it is nice to have their support.
Need advice!! I really want to contact the om in my sitch. I really dislike this person that I've never met but I feel he should know that he is contributing to the destruction of a M, helping to create a hostile home environment for my D3 and he is contributing to my D3 only being able to see both of her parents on a part time basis.
I doubt he would care but my WW says he cares so mmuch about my well being (she used to tell me the only reason she was trying to work on us is because he suggested that to her, BS, he was telling her what she wanted to hear to portray himself as a nice guy) as well as my D3 well being. I also don't really see how it would benefit me either so I guess I'm ranting and looking for people to tell me it's a bad idea.
Btw, I would text him if I contacted him which also makes it a bad idea because it leaves a paper trail. I'm so happy he lives about 10 hours away. It makes things difficult for my WW, but more importantly I worry that I would get myself in trouble if he lived nearby.
Don't bother. I texted the OW three times. She never responded. All of my texts were civil...1. please tell your H so I don't have to 2. have you told your H yet and 3. Save your marriage. I also tried to call her. She never responded. Just makes you angrier because they ignore you. Not worth it....what is OP going to say "sorry I fell in love with your spouse"?! It was true love and I couldn't help myself?! These people obviously didn't care enough before the A started, during the A or now. So, they are all in affair fog and will justify it. It really isn't worth your time. Enjoy D3 and realize that God and karma will have to take care of OM....
I was once accused of being the OW when I wasn't (It was a guy I play online games with. It was very weird). I spent a lot of time texting the wife trying to explain that I wasn't having an affair with her husband.
She didn't believe me. And now. being on this side of the table, I don't blame her. I wish I could go back and tell her "Like no really, I'm not doing your husband!"
In their relationship, however, she had had multiple affairs in the past so she's probably projection. but I digress
The point is: what will it accomplish? Just like us begging and pleading with our spouses to end the A does nothing, its' not going to do anything to ask the OP either. Unless they don't know. And he clearly does. They aren't good people. They're flawed, just as we all are. But they have real feelings in this. I know that's not a side we like to think about but its true. Yes, they're in the wrong. They absolutely should've walked away. but they didn't. They're guilty. Confronting them isn't going to make them feel any guiltier than they already do. It'll just drive them further into the A.
Thank you broke and SparkSB. I didn't really think it would be a good idea or that it would accomplish anything. I guess it was most me venting.
I got inspired to reread a book, The Last Lecture, by a post by Mutatio. The book is a short quick read and very inspiring. Although it has relavance for everyone, I think it is particularly important for people coping with the death of their marriage.
I'm a little late to the party but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway. When you think about approaching the OM, you must follow it thru to it's logical conclusion. You will approach a man who is aiding and abetting the destruction of your marriage, vying for your wife's attention and destroying your children's family structure. When you try to reason with him you get a F U attitude, you get angry and it escalates. In the heat of the moment you or he could step through a door that will change you future permanently. There is way to much downside risk compared to upside benefit. I recommend you resist the temptation to talk to the POS OM and focus on yourself and your family.
I agree with mutatio. While I have not had the case specifically myself but know of many cases where LBS actually went to prison. One I know of was a mutual fight and with only a few light punches thrown ended with a guy having an aneurism and died. Other guy was charged with murder and convicted of voluntary manslaughter.
Thank you for the wise words Mutatio and TimR. I completely agree that it wouldn't be a wise decision to talk to the om. Too much to lose. I think it was more of me letting off steam. I don't know how or if I will be able to do it but I am trying to forgive my WW and him (having more trouble forgiving him than her). I want to alleviate myself of that burden.
Can certainly understand where you are coming from there. I can't say that I have not thought about paying OM a visit. It would feel so good just to have minutes. I don't think I would need it, maybe just 30 secs. But yeah more trouble than it is worth, we gotta be here for our kids and take the high road. I also know the need to let off steam. Maybe find a kick boxing class, hitting something does help relieve the stress and the thoughts.