My wife and I are separated. I am an attorney. Her complaints about me are primarily lack of intimacy and neglect. I of course thought we were in a rough patch but did not know it was that bad. How quick your world can change!
Any way she is working on moving out of the house. I have helped her locate a place to rent and continue to look for others. That seemed to help her attitude toward me. She also mentioned divorce and having the complaint drafted which she knows I could just print up. I have done that but god it is going to kill me to give them. I said I would just leave them at the house but I really want her to wait before filing. It seems the longer we are away from each other (2 weeks now) and the times I do not have melt downs, her attitude gets better toward me. But if I ask her something regarding our marriage it goes back down.
Should I leave a note with the papers that says: "Here are the divorce papers you asked me to draft. I just ask you save them for a couple months before filing. However, I leave that up to you and trust you will make the right decision."
Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
It seems the longer we are away from each other (2 weeks now) and the times I do not have melt downs, her attitude gets better toward me.
But if I ask her something regarding our marriage it goes back down.
STOP asking - read the 37 rules.
You want to give her space.
Should I leave a note with the papers that says: "Here are the divorce papers you asked me to draft.
I personally would not unless you really want to be divorced.
There is not going to be any magic thing that is going to FIX this right this minute.
Start reading the homework, stop begging, pleading and bargaining with her.
Learn about validation.
Keep posting
But if I do not give them to her, will she see that as me trying to control her? Or should I just wait until SHE specifically requests I give them to her? BTW this is one of my topics I am going to speak to my counselor about tomorrow...
Hi Tim,
Welcome to the madhouse that we call the DB Boards. I am so very sorry you have found yourself here. There is a lot of love and support here and you will find good people, helping other good people.
Strap yourself in because you are in for a bumpy ride. It can be painful and overwhelming, but the rewards from this journey are huge. I'm not sure if you were a lurker before posting. Some of us were so learned the DB lingo before posting.
You will hear alot about GAL - Get a Life, doing a 180's, NC - no contact, LRT- Last resort technique, and detaching and boundaries, and validation.
Read and study everything that has Cadet has provided for you for homework. There's gold there.
What ever you are expecting from DBing, it will not happen overnight. This journey is one of saving yourself yourself, so you MIGHT, save your marriage.
My journey here is different from other's but I have a huge respect for the people here and MWD's work. This journey will be transformational if you let it.
There are vets (who know Dbing like the back of their hand) and other posters with experiences in number of sitches that marriages go through. Let them be your guides.
Expect to be challenged like never before. Remember kindness can be cruel at times, so expect a 2 x 4 every now then, when someone sees you falling in the same hole over and over again.
So you get the most from the board, keep posting regularly, I mean like frequently. It will allow others to get to know you and your sitch. Post on other people's there, if you have no advice to offer, offer support. Giving to other's allows for two things, 1. It FEELS GOOD and 2. You personally gain insight when you provide other's with advice, information and empathy.
Again Tim sorry you are here, but welcome to journey of a life time.
Jellyxxx
The longer you can wait to print the papers, the better TimR. As Cadet always says, we have been given the gift of Time. Use it wisely.
Is she in an affair?
Did you have any info on background that could help us?
My W and I might be reconciling this week - I was served on Friday. I would rather see people not have to pay for court filing fees/retainers when they don't have to. You being an attorney makes it really easy for her to ask for a D. Maybe if she wants the D she files?
Either way, have you really neglected your wife? No intimacy? Work taken over? Family/work/life balance way off? We are always half the equation. Are you cleaning up your side of the street? You can't fix her, her street is hers to fix.
Just throwing these things out there. Keep posting - journaling here has been really good for me. The posters, many of them vets here, are unbelievably good.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I posted about the Divorce Papers and one of the comments was to give some more information. Rather than just reply I figured I would do this as a new post. Sorry if this is a breach in custom. Also I have not memorized all the abbreviations so forgive me for not using them yet. Finally, I have the book Divorce Busters but am only on Chapter 5 so far. Some of it I am not sure I understand so will have many questions.
In my family there are the four of us. Me, her, and my two step kids. I love my step kids as though they are my own. That is easy to say but I REALLY mean it. The one is into a sport I excelled at, so I coach his jr. high team and run a club that teaches kids. I also run him to other lessons. We are always together. The older and I used to click too but now he is a teen and parents are not cool. He also has jealousy issues with the other.
About my marriage. Simply put I was neglectful. Even before marriage my wife would sleep on the couch. It started as once here and there. At that time I would ask and she would just say she fell asleep. Then I would try and get her back to bed and would fail. So I would give up and the dog would sleep in the bed while my wife slept on the couch. Then she would complain about the dog in the bedroom. I would be mean and tried kicking him out for awhile but when she would not come back I would give up. Then I just gave up trying. After marriage we RARELY had sex. We have only been married 3 years but I lived together for 4 years before that.
Then the fights started about sex. I would try and touch her and get "why are you doing this you never touch me?" Next time I tried it would take me longer to work up the nerve. Finally, it took a whole year with no contact for me to try and get rejected. Some times I would blow up about it and say this is no marriage. One time I took off my ring for about a month or two. I would pout and say mean things. She then would do the same. Talk about the cheeseless tunnel?!?
We tried counseling and she walked out after the second session. I did a reconciliation letter and tried leaving little notes and sending flowers. This did not go over well and she said it was creeping her out.
Now there is a guy whom she speaks with via text and social media. Maybe more than one. I do not know if it is physical. We are separated. I am living out of the home and soon she is getting an rental.
Like I said I am only on chapter 5 so far. Also I think I can not ask tell her my wants yet. She is very angry and we have had fights where I have slipped back to blame. I did help her find the rental in order to ensure the kids stay in the same school district. She actually warmed a bit and said she appreciated my help and thanked me. I am noticing the small things.
My goals are:
Her to allow one or both of the boys to stay with me occasionally on weekends.
For her to initiate a face to face conversation about something pleasant, not our current state of our relationship.
And to begin just small text messages to talk like we first started out.
Are these specific enough Action Goals?
If I were to Tell her My Wants, keeping it small and realistic I would say: I want us to still be friends and cooperate especially when it comes to the boys.
Any advice is certainly appreciated.
I am mobile right now and will merge this later with your thread
Threads now merged stick to one until 100 posts please
Hi Tim, welcome aboard. No matter the point in the journey, this community is a great source of support. Stick with us and post often, and you'll receive more replies.
I'm going to start out by asking you why did you marry her if she was already sleeping on the couch and the sex was an issue? When she did have sex with you, did she seem to enjoy it and was satisfied?
I could not help noticing something in your post. Before you told us anything about your W, you talked about the boys and how much you loved them. Then, when you listed your goals, they were your very first one. I think it is admirable and says a lot about you. I'll admit, however, I had the question to cross my mind, if you really M her for the sake of the kids. Clearly, you want to be a family with them. Is their biological father active in their lives?
How long has she been living in a separate place, and what is the interaction with her?
If you had another chance, what would you change in order to give the MR a better chance of being stronger?
Did you never talk to her about what you wanted in the MR?
Did you know what her emotional needs were?
Honestly why did I marry her with the sex/couch issues. First, I love her. Yes there were some doubts but I thought it was a phase we would grow out of. I think my thinking was the oustridge with his head in the hole. Weeks became months, months years. I would try and do something about it and get rejected. Or we would be very friendly and I would think well lets not rock the boat while we are getting along. After a while it got dark and I joined dead bedrooms on reddit which did not help at all.
When we did have sex, yes I think she enjoyed it very much. However, there were some performance issues a few times on my part. A couple were because of a cold and other were because of porn.
As far as the boys, I can reasonably say I did not marry her for the boys. However, in being truthful there were some real bad times that the reason I stayed, at least I told myself, was for the boys. The boys fathers are not involved in any way in their life. I am the only dad they have known. Especially the youngest.
We have been living separate now for 2 weeks. At first nothing. I left for a week and came back (at a very bad time) and she spent the night screaming at me and what a terrible person I was and only thought of myself. Next morning same thing. Then recently I confronted her about a possible affair. That ended in yelling. I did manage at that time to keep my cool and just say "I want you to know I know and am disappointed in you but I am not going to be ugly about it." I have helped her find a rental (after the last fight) and she text me how much she appreciated it and thanked me. She also has text me about our boys weekend schedule and I emailed her requesting her review his February schedule. She gave me no hassle on it.
If I had another chance to do it all over... I would certainly change my attitude and verbally let her know what she means to me, I failed at that before. She needs validation. I needed to do the little things. I left her feeling alone and unwanted. She has insecurities about herself especially looks (although there is absolutely no call for them cause she is beautiful) that I helped contribute to unknowingly. I think this would draw us closer and many of the problems would disappear. I hope that is not too vague. However, currently I need to get to the point where we can be friends.
At the time I did not know her emotional needs but I SHOULD HAVE.
Hello TimR,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I agree with the others here that you should not print and give her the divorce papers she asked you to draft unless you want to get divorced. Why would you make the divorce process easier for her? Are you paying for her apartment? If so, she isn't facing any of the consequences of wanting space or doing any of the dirty work of filing for divorce. If she wants space and a divorce, she needs to deal with all the details and expense.
Do you have any parental or custody rights with your step sons? Have you adopted them? If you are the only father they have known, how does that play out for you with custody?
A sex starved marriage is a very lonely place to be for both people. You made a casual mention about porn and I'm wondering if there is more to that piece of the puzzle.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
No, I am not paying for her place, although I helped her find a place. That was mainly because she was threatening to move the kids out of the school district. As a step parent I would have little legal power to stop her. I knew while the youngest would be ok, a move to a different school would devastate the oldest. So I figured the best thing was to find her a place in our school district.
I have not adopted the boys and in my state may have some standing for custody as a step parent. Although it would be unusual. The boys father has nothing to do with them, we have not seen or heard from him in years.
There is more to the porn. I watched porn before we got together and sometimes when things were good. But during the bad times, I watched porn a lot.
One more thing that she complained of was that I paid more attention to the dogs than her. She seems to be very jealous of the dogs. After she stopped sleeping with me, the dog did sleep in the bedroom. She did complain of it in the past. I would make the dog sleep outside the room but after months of her not coming back I did allow the dog to come back to the room.
I am trying the no contact rule, but we have the boys so I have hard time with the no contact. I am also worried that I may fool myself into sending info about the boys and just a means of communicating. Or I will miss read her intentions if she send me info on the boys. Right now the only way we communicate is by text.
Coming up with a goals and a plan along with ways to measure the effects seems daunting... Any advice?
Sorry, I know I ramble on here. I also am aware I am all over the place with my thinking (mainly because I am panicky). GAL right? Which I am working on. However, I am new to this and the detachment and GAL are hard. My obsessive compulsive and tenacious nature make detachment very hard. Also, I do not want to miss any small feedback which could be overlooked.
Having said that, my wife knows I look on her pintrest board. Today she posted this article in her Good To Know board. Is she realizing what I have been telling her that I did not know my actions would hurt her? Here is the article.
Tim I know you are looking for that one magic thing that you can do that will make all of this go away.
Sorry to say that it didn't get like this in one day and is not going to be FIXED in one day.
Have you always done everything that your wife TOLD you to do?
Also what was her first marriage that produced the boys like?
Why did it end?
How long was her first marriage and where does your marriage fit into this?
Coming up with a goals and a plan along with ways to measure the effects seems daunting... Any advice?
Make the goals about YOU - not about her or the relationship
Keep posting
The problem is she told me I was neglectful and controlling. She said she just needed away from me. I gave her the space and helped her find a rental. I am only communicating via text right now and just about the boys. She did mention that I needed counseling so I am getting that; I have a one on one counselor and started today with the telephone coaching here. Additionally, I am going to set up and appointment with my priest.
She was not married before. However the oldest boys dad left her as soon as she got pregnant in high school. The youngest's dad she did have a relationship for some years. He was abusive physically and he cheated on her. She found this out at the end of the relationship and she was devastated.
I know I am in a panicky situation and I am trying to get better at it. Yesterday I was good and today I am train wreck.
Yesterday I was good and today I am train wreck.
Yea it is like that in the beginning.
It will get better.
It takes TIME.
The problem is she told me I was neglectful and controlling. She said she just needed away from me. I gave her the space and helped her find a rental. I am only communicating via text right now and just about the boys. She did mention that I needed counseling so I am getting that; I have a one on one counselor and started today with the telephone coaching here. Additionally, I am going to set up and appointment with my priest.
Okay, but do you know
why you are going to see a counselor and the priest?
I think a ton of LBS's use their kids as an excuse to contact their spouse. What are some examples of information do you give about the boys when you feel you need to tell her?
I am going to the counselor and priest for two reasons. First and foremost, I am going to work through becoming a better person. So if I am lucky enough to reunite with my wife, I can treat her how she should be treated. In order, that I do not fall into the same downward spiral again. The second reason is for coping skills while we are apart so that I may have the wear-with-all and emotional stability to work through this and give it the best effort I can.
As far as contact for the kids, I think I have been pretty good with not sending unnecessary texts. Examples of my texts are: Can we talk about this weekend, should boy1 spend the weekend with me since we have to leave early for the tournament and then practice the next day? Boy2 wants me to take him up to his gf's house. Before, I agreed to do it I wanted to check with you to make sure it is ok? (in the past she has not been to keen on him going there).
I do have some good news to report. First my wife allowed my stepson to spend the weekend with me. Via text she agreed for him to spend the weekend at my apartment. She even offered that if he did not spend the night with me that she would wake him up, get him ready and bring him to me so I did not have to drive down there in the morning (6am). Second she did show up at his tournament today (which she definitely would not have missed). But unlike last tournament, she did not avoid me, she spoke with me and although it was a little uncomfortable it was very pleasant. She even joked with me a bit. Additionally, there was eye contact when we spoke, which has been a big change. Finally, she did not just leave immediately after he was done but stayed a few hours and left to go visit her niece. It was a great day and I am giving myself some pats on the back for employing the "as if" technique.
Per my telephone coach I am currently working on another reconciliation letter to her. Hopefully, it will provide some additional positive feedback. Wish me luck!
After a good weekend, I am start with a bad Monday. Emotions ebb and flow of course. After the tournament on the weekend, I ran into her at the house while son and I were picking up things for the night. It went well again and I am seeing glimmers of hope. Then on Sunday night she text me about where to pick up or drop off son. We met at the gym and she was not mean but was a bit distant. It was hard leaving him and I went to our house to do my laundry and hand write my letter. When I got there I saw boxes packed and pictures taken down. I knew to expect it but it still crushed me!
So I left the reconciliation letter per the telephone coach and did not yet receive a reply, which I did not expect. The letter was empathizing with feelings of past wrongs and a mission statement. But even though I did not expect a response, I am still left with feelings... did she read it? if so, what was her reaction? Where am I with all this? And where is she? I know it is a marathon and not a sprint but I feel like I am running it with a broken leg...
My monday started off emotional too. I feel you pain. Keep your head up, it [censored] and hopefully it gets easier for both of us. Everyone tells me to have NO expectations at all when it comes to your separated spouse. Don't really have much advice besides knowing that you aren't alone and time is our friend! I hope she gives you some sort of feedback about your letter soon!
I have found that after leaving the letter she has posted more quotes on her Pintrest account. One says "When you decide to let go don't look back, you cannot see your future in the rear view mirror." and "holding on to someone who treats you like an option keeps you from someone who treats you like a priority." On my own I posted about never giving up. Her mom must look at my page because she started posting more quotes to the loser husband. Today she also post a quote of "when a girl gives up on you good luck." I describes basically how you can push away the women you love. I know my therapist would say this is all communication or information. However, I do not know what it is telling me. Is she having seconds thoughts about leaving? Is she trying to convey a clear message that it is over? Is she saying I need to work harder? Is she trying to convince herself leaving is the best decision (I know her mom is)? Or is this feedback that I should try other methods? ugh!
That would be so confusing! Try not to read into it. She might be doing it just to hurt you especially if her mom is doing it too. Just try working on you and maybeavoid Pinterest for a while. I had to give up ALL social media my WAH is on because seeing him pist pictures of him out and happy hurt.
Tim, I think you would do better if you stayed away from her websites altogether. At this point, you are wanting to analyze everything, and it will work on your emotions too much. Besides, you cannot place any value in what she says on public sites.
When my XDIL dumped my S, she was always putting stuff out there, like you've described, and it was so ridiculous. She would be making references to her new OM and actually some of it came back to bite her.
You have much better things to do that watch stuff like FB, Pintrest, Twitter, or anything along those lines. For sure, if she knows you are watching, you will probably get stung several times over.
Thank you sandi2 and Rednail. I am trying to avoid the social media, but find it extremely hard as that is the only feed back I think I get from methods. And I must admit this feels like the only connection I still have with her. Maybe I am just torturing myself. Trying to remain with GALing and finishing the books.
Hello Tim,
Yes, you are torturing yourself. Sandi and Rednail are right. It is best to avoid social media communication/spying completely. I would put social media in the don't believe any of what she says and only 1/2 of what she does category. It isn't a real connection anyway.
Focus on being the best Tim and Dad that only a fool would leave. GAL and let's see some Tim focused goals that don't have anything to do with her or your relationship,
Hang in there!
Cristy
Hi, its me again. So I got a text from a friend and it said what is your wife doing with this guy on facebook. Sure enough they are friends and she is friends with his whole family. I couldn't stand it anymore and felt compelled to know if she was actually having an affair. I found the guys address and at night drove there... Sure enough her car was there. I took a picture but did not go up to the door, I would be in jail now if I would have got out of my car. Instead I drove away and text her the picture.
Later on she called me and swore they just hang out and she is not having an affair. I do not know a married woman who hangs out with a single guy at his house at 9:30 pm and is not having and affair. I told her to stop lying and just admit it. Of course she will not. So any way at least I know, despite how I now feel about it.
The problem I have is whether I still want to DB. Part of me does part of me does not.
Hello everyone. Just asking for some quick advise. WAW and I are separated. I have reason to guess she is having second thoughts. This weekend we were able to talk on the telephone a few times and today I took my sick step son to the dr without her prompting (btw I would have done that before separation).
So after a weekend where we seemed to make small but noticeable progress she calls me at work. Said she has been thinking about things and then started crying telling me all the controlling manipulative things I have done. After discovering her cheating on me I did take her engagement and wedding rings (yes my coach told me how stupidly I acted that night). She continued with telling me how spiteful and hurtful that was. I said I understand why she would feel like that. I also said listen we both are working right now and I do not want to ruin the rest of your day but I want to talk about this further (I had a client waiting for a meeting but did not tell her that as I think she would have viewed it as an excuse from me). I will call you tonight. I scheduled an appointment with a coach before we talk.
What I expect to hear about is everything I have done wrong (oh boy there is a lot). Mainly, I am guessing about the unilateral decisions I have made in the past, pouting, arguing and saying some mean things during those arguments, about me moving out (which I thought I was doing for her since she said she could not even handle seeing me and when I moved back in she screamed at me that night and screamed that morning again).
I have done so much damage to this relationship I do not want to do more so any suggestions or if anyone has experience with these "talks" I would greatly appreciate hearing from you. Please any advice or information would be great. I can see only 2 possible reasons for this talk. 1 she is having serious doubts about leaving and having a lot of internal conflict or 2 the realization of how expensive this will be for her and how her entire life style will have to change has her stressed. While I hope for the former, I think I made it perfectly clear that all she had to do was say the word and I would happily work on our marriage, so I think me hoping for the former is just wishful thinking. Thanks!
Tim
I would suggest Letting GO,
validating, and mostly just listening.
nothing you are going to say is going to turn this around quickly.
Yes I think you are doing some wishful thinking and I have done that myself.
Thinking that because my wife ate some popcorn I made that it was a sign that all was well.
She is confused and needs to figure out what she wants without your pursuit.
I know this sounds counter intuitive to what you think is right, just remember that YES it is a 180 to be counter intuitive.
She needs to feel the consequences of her actions,
Final thought believe nothing she says and half of what she does!
We did not have the talk. As per coach I reached out and offered and she text back that she didn't want to now. Later that night she proceeded to start sending me text about what a jerk I am and how I control and manipulate her. I validated and empathized and she complained she did not believe any of it. She then threatened and insulted.
This morning I text her that picked up the kid and took him to school because he missed the bus. I said I do not know why he called me and did not ask her (she is the one living in the house). I think he was afraid to ask. She in turn said it was because I was trying to turn him against her. I validated and said I could appreciate why she would feel that way, but she is his mother and a great one! I would never do that. She in turn started in about me stalking her (which I have not since I caught her cheating).
I am realizing she is changing her tactics now. She used to say stuff to invoke a reaction in me but if I validated and empathized she would calm and drop it. Now it seems to anger her just as if I would give her my old reactions. Thus I think my new plan needs to be detaching and not answering texts or calls if it appears she is trying to drag me into reactions.
Anyone experience this?? Any advice??
Yes - it is one of the scripts.
You sound like you are on the right track.
Hello all,
I read Jguy's thread and it is really helping me see many of the mistakes I have been making. Sorry Jguy but the beginning of your thread really shows me what not to do.
I am committing to letting go like I said. I am also working on moving on and recapturing some happiness for myself. My goals:
1. Wake up happy and thankful
2. Focus on my kid
3. Join a gym after wrestling season (until then work out hard with the team)
4. Some new clothes for a new me!
Tomorrow I am preparing to meet her and do our taxes. This is not going to be a happy time but I will be prepared. I am also debating about giving her rings back that I took upon discovering the OM. I am trying to think what would the old me do, and then do the opposite. That is a lot easier said than done, the old me may have been angry and just kept them sc*&w her or the old me may have tried to give them back with some "I love you and always wills." This may be a coaching question. Thanks any advice would be appreciated.
Well goal one failed today as I had nightmares of finding out about OMs all night, just kept waking up. I know that hurt is going to be there for quite sometime, if it ever leaves.
I am doing well focusing on the youngest and keeping it up. Every night we text and I always tell him goodnight and I love him. The older one is harder as I am rather sure he has been poisoned against me. He really will not talk to me, except if he wants money or a ride and mom wont give it to him. I guess right now just being there when he needs me is the best thing I can do.
The last two. I worked hard at practice last night. Kind of at a plateau for weight loss, but 20+ pounds is still good. I want to reach 165 so that is a new goal. And I am wearing newly purchased clothes today. Also after counseling I am going to get a trim.
Yesterday she text about taxes. Despite her saying I am controlling she refused to pick a tax preparer or schedule the appointment but told me to. So I did. She then called after she was done working. I ignored the call. A few hours later text saying, must have missed your call. She text she would call but then text never mind. I did not respond to either text.
When I stopped home yesterday to change for practice, there was a water shut off notice on the door. She only had two bills to pay but apparently ignored them. I do not want to be an enabler but I did go pay the bill without telling her. I cant go back home to no water and more importantly, I can not have the boys living with no water. So I do not think this interferes with my 180s.
Got a text today that the OM has changed his relationship status to single on FB. Also that her mom stopped following him on Pintrest. While I am hopeful, I need to keep moving on and detaching.
Finally, I still have not decided about the rings tonight and whether to just let her have whatever refund we may get. I am at a loss with regard to this. I HAVE decided to act as if tonight and am working of looking good and being in a good mood to meet. I guess I have to consider all the scenarios that could happen, will I get yelled at and will she try to drag me into a fight? Will she be nice and considerate? Hell she could even invite me to dinner? I am thinking how to prepare for each scenario. Any advice???
I guess I have to consider all the scenarios that could happen, will I get yelled at and will she try to drag me into a fight?
Will she be nice and considerate?
Hell she could even invite me to dinner?
I am thinking how to prepare for each scenario.
Any advice???
The less you say the better.
When no answer is the right answer just listening is good.
Agreeing with what is said(validation) also helps.
Maybe these are new skills?
Thanks Cadet. Per talking it out with my counselor, I am going to hold off on giving back the rings and not give 100% of the tax return. I do not think I will split it 50/50 but not going to give 100% too. Seems that that would just be continued enabling and as he said she is standing on the other side of the she will not truly know the what color the grass is until I stop helping. He told me whatever happens she has to learn consequences for her decisions, which is something I read on here a lot too!
Well we did the tax thing tonight. I got the distant but nice W. I have to admit that I was terrified of what was going to happen and while it was not the best case scenario that I hoped for, it definitely was not the worst case that I dreaded either. She was civil, not too nice but engaged a bit in small talk. Her body language said keep your distance.
Here though are the things that shocked and scared me. My wife is a princess. Beautiful and seductive. She is also bold and brass in her feelings. Tonight however she could not look me in the eye. We have had in person interactions in the past and she never failed to look me in the eye. Tonight however, she kept her head down which was very not like her. I don't know if it is pain, guilt or what but she could not look me in the eye. Before when she yelled at me she looked me straight in the eye. When we met for wrestling she looked me straight in the eye. Tonight she turned and met my eyes once and she almost immediately looked down.
Also as I said she is a princess. She prides herself on her appearance. She has lost a noticeable amount of weight which is fine. She goes to the gym a lot. But she also looked tired. Her clothes were not quite right. She had a run in her stockings. Her nails (which she also worked on) where not done at all. The were very short and not polished as normal. She looked sad!
I wanted to hug her and tell her I love her. My heart screamed to comfort her. My hands trembled and my heart sank, lower than it already is. I wanted to tell her "If you just come home and we are a family again, we can get through this." INSTEAD, I continued to act as up beat as I could making jokes with the tax preparer. Did my best as if and left before she was done. But god she needs some prayers, I have never ever seen her so low.
After I left her there, I felt relieved that my worst fears did not come true but I am so saddened by her state.
You did great! Clearly this isn't easy for her either. You planted a seed by not giving in to your emotions. Stay the course.
Just want to see if anyone can weigh in on an on going situation with my mother in law. This has been going on apparently since before the separation.
Sometime around October/November, my wife found a contractor to fix her mom's roof. Apparently, from the get go the contractor started hitting on my wife and my mother in law encouraged it. In November when he actually started working on the roof is when things went down hill for me. The entire time my mother in law encouraged it. The three of them became friends on social media, and since this guy likes tie dye my mother in law was posting tie dye wedding dresses on my wife's pintrest! Fast forward to now.
I reached out to my MIL at the beginning. She didn't respond. Then she sent me a text about what a horrible person I am. When I caught her cheating on me, MIL sent me another text about what a jerk I am and how SHE wouldn't even let me be near the stepboys if it were up to her.
She also started two Pintrest boards. One she had "Things for her daughter" and one she started in January "For TR you know who you are... My daughter's loser husband" The one for my W has quotes about getting out and moving on, quotes about dealing with a psychopath and narcissist. The one for me has quotes about being emotionally abusive, how I will regret losing her (uhm yeah!!!!), calling my a piece of poop, and so on. She actually has over 100 quotes about me. I try to laugh it off thinking it make her look bad and batsh*t crazy, but it also gets to me.
Here are my questions, first how do you deal with such negativity? When MIL's brother died and they went to clean out his apartment, to my wife I said how hard that must have been for her mom. But really with all my DBing efforts, if her mom is that against me, how much will really work? The only comfort I can think of is in time her mom will start turning on her, saying my W is only using her for financial support, they will fight and then become ok with each other again. Any suggestions?
This is very similiar to what my MIL thinks of me.
The entire family is convinced that MIL is borderline personality disordered. Very nice one minute and then will stab you in the back the next. She's very controlling with WAW. Wants her all to herself.
WAW told me that MIL follows her around whenever she moves. She will literally move into the same apartment complex and has done this multiple times. I'm absolutely convinced that MIL has tried to manipulate WAW into changing how she feels about me.
There's nothing you can do IMO to change this. Don't react to it, that's what she's hoping you do so she can then share with the world what a jerk you are.
Be cordial but always keep your distance.
Do you think anyone can FIX your MIL?
Thanks Thornton, thought I may have been the only one dealing with such an odd crazy issue. The one text she did manage to get a response out of me. But despite the first line "thank you for your text and encouraging your daughter to cheat" I did put about my faults in the relationship. Regardless that was my begging and pursuing phase and I have changed since then and sticking with these changes!
Yes. Stop looking at their pinterest. Start looking at yourself and what you need to do to have a good life. When i went through my stich I remember reading an email my ex mil sent to my ex. Ex computer was unattended and her email was open so I snopped. It was all about encouring her to go through with her plans to divorce me. So i stopped looking into her stuff. They will think and say things to justify their actions. Nothing you say will change their minds.
Gal my friend
Oh god its Valentines day! By coincidence or design, my wife moved out today and in to her new place. I also moved back into my house. I have known this has been coming for the month but it does not hurt any less with the realization she is gone crashing in around me. But I am standing firm GALing and detaching.
This weekend was the end of year tournament for our youngest and my team. My W showed up to both days (which was never in doubt). Her demeanor was not warm nor was it cold. Rather it was ambivalent. She spoke to me a bit but I kept it as casual as possible for a wrestling tournament (I am always stressed when any kid I coach is wrestling and especially mine). I made sure not to attempt to engage her too much in conversation but also was making a conscious effort not to be seen pouting around. Her mood was not as bad as it had been in the past but not as good as it had been either.
So today as she was moving out she just decided to call me. I was expecting she something to say but it was just small talk. I do not really know what to make of it? She did speak of leaving the portable dish washer but really she just wanted to talk. She was even joking around? I have a hard time not sounding depressed but made sure to join in the jokes and make a few of my own. My pursuing side though thought maybe she called to hear me ask her not to leave, tell her I needed her at home. I did not say any of those things but I wander if I should have. If that was the one last chance call. Any advice or thoughts???
Thats rough, Tim.
Good that you didnt pursue. Who knows what she was thinking when moving out. You will go through an adjustment period, just ride those feelings out.
You have to let her experience life without you. Back off and do your own thing. She wants out, let her go. It's the only way she might come back.
It's tough stuff but there's not really any alternatives.
Thanks Thornton. Its just hard when I feel so sure she is having doubts. Despite her calling me tonight and spending the weekend at the tournament, she brought the boys to come pick up some stuff tonight and would not even come in, so the stuff she wanted she just had them get. Seems like every time she gives me some message she turns around and gives me the exact opposite shortly after. Just proceeding to give her the space she needs. I am hopeful in the not too distant future we can start dating again and do it right this time.
Im sure she is struggling with this too. You have to let her feel the full weight of her decision.
Dont be suprised if she tries to bait you into a fight so she can feel reassured of her decision. Dont take the bait.
Back off and let her notice your absence.
Thanks Thornton. Its just hard when I feel so sure she is having doubts. ... Seems like every time she gives me some message she turns around and gives me the exact opposite shortly after. Just proceeding to give her the space she needs. I am hopeful in the not too distant future we can start dating again and do it right this time.
Tim, I could have written those words. I have to tell you, you can expect a roller coaster ride for some time to come. I don't know your whole story, but the indecision will will be very difficult. In my case, just when I get hopeful W backs away again. If I get angry or I back away she comes back to reel me in again. Friday I thought we might actually start to reconcile, then I don't hear from her all weekend. There's an ow in the picture and I can only assume they were together all weekend. I gave her plenty of space as she requested, and ow pretty much filled up that space.
I wish you lots of luck and strength, Tim. Hang in there for the long haul. Or maybe you will be smarter than me and move on and truly get a life. Either way, I wish you well.
Thanks for the encouragement NYGal. Unfortunately I am in it for the long haul. While there is part of me that wishes I could say f this I am out of here, that is not my heart. I know this is not a "if I do everything right she will be back next week" and I have some serious work to do and emotions to hide. But I have hope.
NYGal, I wish you the very best of luck! and you have my sincerest sympathies for you sitch.
Sorry if I post day to day logs and details about the smallest things. It helps me to process everything and then I can also look back and see if there are small signs of improvement. Guess I should write more in my journal but since I pretty much live on this board it is easier to write here with more accuracy.
Well anyway, I emailed my W the tournament schedule for March for my stepson. Which is not me going out of my way, its what I have always done. Then on the way to practice she calls, here it is just to chat. I managed to be the one to end the call this time, but that is really hard! Then toward the end of practice she just sends me a random text about no one stalking snow shovels. I did not respond as it was not an emergency and we already had the phone call. Just now then at 11:00 she texts again. This times it is about the kids and then the weather. I don't know if she misses me, is doing a temp check or what? But she is being really nice. We have been separated for over a month now (me living in an apartment my friend let me use) and now her out of the house and me back in the house. Guess I will just have to monitor???
Monitor scmonitor... If you pay too much attention to her, you will go nuts. She's got her thing going on, her fog is pierced by a ray of reality from time to time and she is trying to control you. She is trying to make you stay put and be her plan B.
In her mind it is her time to be happy now and you f....d up her happiness and now she is going to paint the town red and just in case her thing does not pan out, she is keeping you as a plan B. She does not give a hoot about you ans you really should stop (over)analyzing everything she says/does, because there is no sense to be made.
Sorry Vapo but I am obsessive compulsive. I will always analyze and over analyze every detail. That is something I cannot help. I have done it in my daily life ever since I can remember. Have a practice coming up, night before I think of what I am going to teach the kids. Then go back and look at the problems the kids are having and rerun how will that practice address it. Have a judo tournament coming up, I fight every fight in my head while going to sleep. If they step this way what will I do, if they try this how will I counter. A trial or argument, I analyze every word I will say. Will this phrase alienate anyone. Is this the most powerful way to say this point.
So why I am sure not to contact her first about anything but the kids and I am sure to detach and not just scramble to be at the phone every time she calls or text. I cannot stop analyzing the words that I do hear or read. What I am doing is making sure to do it outside of her presence and not let her see me hung up on what did she mean by this or that. The other thing I am working to make sure I am always the one to end the conversation.
If we are separated and have no contact whatsoever then I am also certain I have no chance of her returning. Having said that, I am not catering to her, I am not holding on and keeping the conversation going. I am also not saving her, if she needs money for a bill she can ask her mom for help, (especially since her mom encouraged her to leave). I understand she needs to feel the consequences of leaving.
I feel like I am following the readings and I am not ignoring you Vapo or arguing, so if I am blowing it please be honest and let me know. I am just saying I am trying to take all the advice, readings, coaching and counseling sessions and then apply it. However, I can't stop my mind from running, that is part of who I am and honestly something I am not willing to change because my obsessive compulsive thinking and over thinking have helped me succeed thus far in my endeavors. While I am working to change the bad things about me I do not want to completely lose myself in the process. BTW I have read and reread and edited this post 4 times be posting :-)
If we are separated and have no contact whatsoever then I am also certain I have no chance of her returning.
First of all that is an EXPECTATION.
Brings those down to zero.
You have no idea what will happen in the future.
If you do - can you buy me the winning lottery tickets for next week?
Or did you know that you would get married and then go through a rough patch now?
Things change and sometimes we are clueless.
That being said, have you read the pursuit and distance thread in my first post to you?
So it sounds like you have been pursuing for your whole marriage.
Was that healthy?
Keep reading and learning TimR,
Knowledge is Power.
Thanks Cadet. I ordered the book and realize I just skimmed some of the links you first sent me after rereading the pursuit and distance thread. Seems like you are telling me to pull back more, so I will let you know how that goes.
Thanks Cadet. I ordered the book and realize I just skimmed some of the links you first sent me after rereading the pursuit and distance thread. Seems like you are telling me to pull back more, so I will let you know how that goes.
Yeah - I am also telling you to read all the links and all of the links within each link, because Knowledge really is Power.
Just journaling. No contact today. As far as GALing I picked up an extra light workout today since the match I was supposed to coach got cancelled due to the weather. The work out was not hard enough to be fulfilling there. More me just working with another guy and helping him with his throws. I know it sounds selfish of me, but right now I don't want to help people I want to do things for me! I get that is horrible to say but it is true. I wanted to get out of the house because it is lonely here and depressing, thought a good workout would help but instead I get stuck teaching.
So with that disappointment, tonight's over analytical thought is maybe I should just move on. I am lonely and would just love to feel wanted by someone. Not sexual gratification but an actual closeness to someone. To feel something with someone, to fill that hole. I am not saying I am giving up, just saying what I want. Of course, what ever happens with me and my WW, I know I am not ready for a relationship, and I am not going to through away my M (lol whatever is left of it) just to be with someone.
I hear you, Tim.
I dont think that's selfish that you need to do some things for you for awhile. It's good for you, dont deny yourself.
Tim,
I see you are doing well. A word of caution though... Try to curb the analysis thing, you might fall into the analysis paralysis trap. Also when you analyze logical problems, you can come to logical conclusions, however this whole situation (as you will soon discover) defies logic, so any excessive analyzing will drive you nuts, so it is best you stop analyzing it (or at least minimize it). Take the whole situation as it is, face the fact that it had nothing to do with you and come to terms that you cannot thing your way out of this one (scary thought for a thinker, heh?) and live your life forward.
Do notice, I did not say move on, I said move forward. It's time to upgrade your hardware to Tim 2.0.
And patience, you will need the patience of a saint...
Sorry just going to vent a bit and work some anger out.... And here it goes...
Text from her "Can I stop at your house and get the last of my things. I am going to take some of the curtains I bought."
Me: "Sure can you tell me what curtains you plan to take so I can prepare and get new ones" "Oh yeah did you take my drill?"
Her paraphrased Pretty much all the curtains. Oh yeah I guess I did when do you need it back.
Me: no rush
Her: The water company cant stop payment on the check for the water bill so you can just pay me back.
WTF (sorry if that is not allowed) She lived at the house rent and bill free for a month, while I got an apartment so as to give her, her space. The only bills I ever asked her to pay was the water and garbage. Everything else I paid! I went home last week to find a shut off notice of the water so rather than the kids going without water I went and paid the past due bill $200. She went in the next day to paid the bare minimum to keep the water on, not knowing I already paid it. Keep in mind the garbage was shut off because she failed to pay for months (which I took care of) and the water was not paid for months either. Now she expects me to pay her back for her past due bill!!! Keep in mind she conveniently has not mentioned the fact that her car is still on my auto insurance policy which I pay.
How can I not be ANGRY!
I am thinking about how to answer this without sounding as p!$$ed off as I am and making a big thing of it. "Your check was for the past due amount for while you were living there which you owed $290. I just paid it because I did not want the kids to go without water for the last week you lived there." Which will see the response of you are such an a#$hole. "I could say I do not have it right now. We can talk about it in the future." Not sure what reaction I will get out of this. Or I could say, "Sure and we should get your car insurance changed over!! BTW you owe for the last few months"
Ugh If I give in and pay then I am a doormat. If I don't then she moves further away.
BTW a 180 for me would be to just give her the money... If that means anything.
Sorry but my conclusion was, "We can talk about it but it cant be right this instant. Between S dr bill, telephone and regular counseling and buying the team dinner after the tournament, I am tight till next pay at least."
Lock changin' time a' commin'?
So her response was "No problem, forget it. I will be fine." My friend who I speak to about my sitch said that is girl talk for "now you are supposed to insist on giving me what I want right away." My comment was I cannot give her this she has to feel the consequences of her actions and I cannot be her doormat. Needless to say no other contact from her tonight. BTW tomorrow is my Birthday, oh I am sure this will be a memorable one!
Well just got done with counseling. Sometimes I feel like I am wasting my time doing it. What I want is instruction not to talk about how I feel.... I feel bad, how else am I too feel. Either way it is worse today, I turned 41 (half my life down the drain), M is ending, I will never be a 'real' to a 'real' kid at this rate, I am starting over... should I go on. So that's life and yes it would have been better to write this down and burn it but the panic that would create in the office, along with getting fired would just add to my long list of why life $ucks.
Sorry you're hurting, Tim. And Happy Birthday, I wish it was under different circumstances.
Dude, you still have another 40-50 years to k!ck some ass. You're not an old geezer. Don't beat yourself up.
Thanks Thornton, I said to myself last night that I was not going to have a pity party for myself today and well....
It happens.. I've been in a funk for a week. Forgive yourself for being human and try again tomorrow.
Well just got done with counseling. Sometimes I feel like I am wasting my time doing it. What I want is instruction not to talk about how I feel.... I feel bad, how else am I too feel. Either way it is worse today, I turned 41 (half my life down the drain), M is ending, I will never be a 'real' to a 'real' kid at this rate, I am starting over... should I go on. So that's life and yes it would have been better to write this down and burn it but the panic that would create in the office, along with getting fired would just add to my long list of why life $ucks.
Happy birthday.
I'm in the same boat too. Funny how just a few months ago I felt on top of the world, things were all coming together. It happens to the best of us.
Focus on yourself first.
Happy birthday TimR. Don't let the W get you down. Go do something for yourself tonight even if it is something small like getting a milkshake. You've got this!!!
Thank you all for the birthday wishes. It means a lot in times like these! So tonight S came down to visit me for my birthday. He was here when I got home from work. Apparently, he did not tell his mom that he was coming so I had him tell her. Well I guess she grilled him to the point he said she thought it was my idea that he come down. He did tell her I wasn't even home when he got there, but I am sure in her mind I was plotting. She is just going to have to accept we have a bond that is important to him whether she likes it or not. She of course has not contacted me and I will imagine she wont until the weekend for the wrestling tournament. Well that's my day, one day older and yet I have probably aged 10 years in the last few months.
Happy birthday! Glad you got to see your son, but wish his mom wouldn't have made that filled with drama. I never got a happy bday from my WAH this year either. No matter - you have 41 more years to fill up! Hope you have some GAL'ing plans for this year!
Thank you broke, yeah it is hard when the one you spent so much time with and were so intimate with that they saw you at your complete best and worst, don't even acknowledge your birthday.
However, this morning I woke in a good mood and while the bad days are ever so low, the good days are getting a little higher and a little more frequent. As far as GALing, now that the actual school season is coming to a close, I intend am beginning to work out harder with the club kids. Next week I intend that my son and I, along with him, will start a weight and cardio routine on the off nights. There is an open wrestling tournament in March that since I never got to see my dad wrestle I will do so my son can see me wrestle. Which means I HAVE GOT TO cut some weight. 41 years tends to make a guy a little fluffy. Also, I was looking around my house and together with cleaning the mess she left for me, I think I will also decorate a bit. When I was single I never decorated at all and just had blank walls. This time I think I will decorate a bit and spruce the place up. Finally, I have been in a fog with my head no where near being right, needless to say my work has suffered. My third goal is to start hitting work a lot harder!
Goals:
1. Lose weight and wrestle MAWA
2. Clean and decorate house
3. Work, work, work!
So as much as I did not want to had to contact W today. S was locked out and needed his wrestling bag for practice. Conversation went like this,
"S is locked out and needs his stuff for practice, I tried to call other S to get the key but he is not answering his phone."
W "I am at the market, I can just run home and let him in."
Me "No there is no reason for that, I.... (thinking) can have him wear old shows"
W "Well if he would pull this Sh!t about riding the bus to your house."
Me "Yeah I am not sure why he does it"
W Well he needs to get his a$$ home.... Why do you sound so pouty?"
Me "Pouty, I am not pouty." (I have to admit S was being very grumpy and had me in frustrated.)
Me "I am not sure why he keeps coming"
More complaining about him coming to my house after school.
Then WHAP!!! BANG!! SNAP! Old W gets on the phone and we talk about her being sick and her week at work. She actually finishes at the market, runs home and then runs the 20 miles out of her way to bring his shoes.
I in turn sent a thank you text and that S was now in a better mood.
These swings are something. At least when we steered the conversation away from the kids and S being with me she did her own 180. When the conversation went about her week at work and being sick I was sure to empathize and validate that she has probably been working so hard she ran herself down and weakened her immune system. I just wish I was not the one to have to initiate contact. So I guess I am still failing at not pursuing.
Well the fluctuations continued through out the weekend for me which while I keep telling myself detach continue to affect me and dampen my mood.
On Saturday W was happy to drop S off so I could take him to weigh ins. She text me when she was on her way to drop him off and even text a bit about what she was doing. So it was fine, not promising, get your hopes up but fine. Took S to weigh in and then to eat. He decided he wanted to stop and watch the high school kids at sectionals.
I was only planning on staying a bit but after only 1/2 hour, I get a text "why is my S not home" Knowing there was going to be trouble, I figured I would hit it head on rather than allowing her to stew and anger her further. Wrong choice!!! Upon calling she immediately began yelling at me. Telling me this is why she left me, because I never think about her and just do what I want. I don't care about anyone but myself. She knows what I am doing and is not going to put up with it. And while SHE is trying to be civil about all this I continue to treat her poorly. I tried to validate but that was not working. I know she could tell by my voice that she got to me.
After her yelling at me so long and me trying to say I understand you are angry, we are leaving now I can drop him off where ever you are, I eventually decided to hang up on her and keep the boundaries. I calmed down and text her, I understood while she was angry but I would not allow her to speak to me like that anymore. If she wanted to talk fine but not threatening or accusing me. She of course text back still angry.
Later then I told text her saying what time S needed to be at the tournament. I planned to go out for a beer with a friend and she called when she called me of course while I was getting out of the shower. I acted as if and made sure to have a smile on my face when I answered. When she complained she could not hear me very well cause she was on speaker, I explained to her I had just got out of the shower and was getting dressed (which is unusual for me, so she knew I was going somewhere) she then started accusing me of acting weird. She did not ask where I was going. Instead she just kept say, "You are just acting so weird, I can't handle it." and "why are you acting so weird."
Today then she was fine at the tournament. We joked a bit but she was not really warm. She left S with me as she had a viewing to go to. After I got home, she text me a thank you for bringing S back and told me about the viewing. I validated and she text a few more times.
One thing I noticed is the longer she is away from her mom, the better our R is currently. But if she spends any significant time with her mom, I am sure to hear about something.
Also it seemed to bother her that I was going out, but I do not think she could bring herself to ask what I was doing. I do not know if it will help at all, but I had some fun.
Just when I think that I am detaching well, she throws me these curve balls. Dropping the rope and detaching would be easy if she was always mean. However, when she is nice I just think of wanting her back so bad and touching and holding her.
Regardless, guess I will see what this week brings.
I think sometimes we forget the dynamics of other people and their affect on the people we're trying to deal with. Unfortunately, it sounds like your MIL is taking any potential for consistency out of the equation.
I'm sorry to hear you got jumped on so fast. Especially when your S is trying to have a life as well. It's not your fault that he's a thinking human being, not something you carry around in a box. If he was, you'd probably be on time - right?
I almost envy you though - at least you've still got some communication happening - no matter how whacky it may get.
I know what you mean by trying to detach. It's like that rope turned out to be crazy glued in your hand! The craziest things happen to keep it there.
Here's to a happy Monday TimR!
First I got no sleep last night. I had dreams about her and her friends talking to her and her insisting that she had to be with OM. I woke up on the verge of tears... again.
Then...
Come on, why do the kids have to suffer! It is one thing to take her moods out on me, but not the boys. Tonight I was doing good GALing. Since school wrestling for Jr. High is over, I got a full day in at work and then after club wrestling was over got a good work out in with my advanced judo class. Despite being off for the last two months the weight I lost has made me much faster and I was hitting throws well. It was nice and the concentration it takes to go live gave me an hour of not thinking about my sitch. Afterwards, I called my assistant coach and we discussed the progression of the wrestlers. I felt like driving by WW's house and even managed not to do it! (btw I think my ability to not drive by to see if she was home is a step in the right direction) Then BAM
I get a text from S. "I wish I could come live with you"
Me: Why
S: Cuz I love you more
Me: What's going on buddy
He then proceeded to tell me how she is always yelling at him and his brother. She was threatening to get rid of the dog because the boys were supposed to make sure the dog got out. And then surprise surprise they didn't. The dog went on the floor.
I know how she gets when she is angry she just can't stop her complaining. Now I feel so bad for the boys because instead of directing her anger at me, now the boys are the focus. I feel like I should save them by making an appearance and having her focus her anger on me but I know that will push her further from me. But really do they need to suffer??
Sometimes I think it would be easier and healthier for me to just walk away from the entire situation. Yes, I know years from now and the rest of my life I would regret it. But just give me one full good day... just one!
Sounds like a rough day, Tim. Sorry about that, my friend.
Gotta take the good with the bad. I feel bad for the boys, the only thing you have control of is your R with them. Be the best dad you can, they need you.
So sorry for what you're going through TimR.
"But just give me one full good day... just one!"
You can make this happen.
Set a boundary for your own sanity and self-preservation. Declare a whole day as one that will belong to you, and you alone. No W and no kids (obviously you love them, but any time with them necessarily involves their mother, so choose a day you're not scheduled to see them). Turn off the cell phone and just go out and get yourself lost for a whole day. You deserve it.
More dreams again, I can't really remember what these were but must not have been good cause again woke in the middle of the night about to break down.
Then when the alarm went off, I awoke feeling some kind of indifference. On the way to work heard the anthem for all LBH of WW and WAWs... Asia - Only Time Can Tell. Don't judge me I am old and like the 80s channel. At least I am no longer listening to Boyz 2 Men - End of the Road.
So work has been ok, I spend a lot of time on this board which maybe I should not.
Then a post my MIL to her "For TR you know who you are. My daughter's loser husband" The quote "The biggest coward is a man who awakens a woman's love with no intention of loving her." I am sad and angry all at once. First I am convinced there is a special place in he11 for a MIL who encourages their D to cheat and walk away from a marriage. Second, how can anyone say I do not or did not love my W! If the pain I feel is not for love lost, I would hate to see what that feels like. If my efforts are not from love then where do they come from. How could I love anymore and where does this sense of me not loving come from! ARGH!!!
Today is going to be a great day, today is going to be a great day....
btw, I have a sense this hostility has something with her being mean to the boys last night. I have a feeling youngest S probably went off on her last night. He is very much like her with his temper. As they both are aware of what is going on, I am sure he probably let her have it. Despite me telling him to have patience with her and to tell her he loves her. I also said she is really hurting right now just like me. I am assuming he did not follow my advise and surely fought back. As only a WW can, I am sure she sees this as entirely my fault and doing...
Ok just wanted to say I officially HATE this entire program. I just met with a client about a divorce. She seemed uncertain and rather than taking as much of her money as I could (after all I am a lawyer) gave her the name of both books and told her to get counseling, read the books and if she decides to get a divorce in a few months then call me. But the Complaint is done and we can always file it then.
Not sure if I like this new me....
Haha! Way to go, Tim
Lol NOT saying I am going to do that a lot, especially if I want to eat and have a roof over my head. Just that she seemed like she really didn't want to file and her daughter was pressuring her. Bye bye vacation!
All kidding aside, you may have just saved a marriage. Kudos to you, my friend.
Yeah I don't know what's wrong with me. And its not the first time since all this started. A couple weeks ago a friend from high school and I went to bar after going to watch PSU wrestle. While he is listening to me pour my heart out, in walks a knock out!!! Like 22 y/o goddess. As the night goes on my friend makes the comment, "your wife might not want you but she (motioning to the hottie) definitely does!" I look over and she is staring at me. When I catch her stare she starts smiling at me. I turn and ignore it and when next round was on me and I go to the bar to get one for friend and I, she begins talking to me
I am nice and talk to her (well my ego kinda needed it). I learn she has fallen off the wagon recently. She asks if I could take her home. I also learn she is married and leaving her husband. I agree I will and invite her to come sit with us. Then rather than going back to my problems, me and friend spend the rest of the night talking her into call H to come get her. She does and I visited that bar again to hear they are trying to work it out.
Question.... Why the F is no one doing that for my WW!!! BTW these strange acts of compassion that I have been demonstrating are not making me feel any better. But no denying I have changed.
KArma works, you are doing good, you being a lawyer, I'd imagine you pissed a lot of people off as well. Well, now you are on the upswing.
Thank you all for the suggestion of the ... While I am not quite done with it yet, I realize that she was the pursuer through out our marriage and then in the last 6 to 12 months she ran out of energy and gave up then I became the pursuer. I was relentless and tenacious, which pushed her further and further away. I am trying to work on that with counseling and coaching. I am also praying there is still something in there she feels for me besides all the anger.
Wow TimR. New guy here..but just had to say your ON IT! Way to go sending your client away w/ DBing homework...made me lol
And...WOW....great job controlling yourself at the bar. I know we are smirking a bit...but that REALLY is a big deal. Character. Integrity. it will win out, my friend.
Excellent.
Yeah certainly cannot say I am "on it." I certainly would have never sent a client away before but D is a dirty word to me right now. As far as the bar, while it boosted my ego, I would not want to be an OM. Also I was never the type of guy to take advantage of a girl especially if she were drinking.
My sitch is a struggle. I have made mistake after mistake in DBing. More importantly I have made the biggest mistake which is why I am on this board with all you. And just like everyone else I am just hoping to grow and possibly correct that mistake.
Well I can say WW and the OM are back on. She reopened her FB and Pintrest accounts. She of course is now not listed as married and trailer park boy is her new friend. Imagine that.
Right now I can feel my blood boiling!!! Needless to say, I will get no sleep and the bit that I do will of course be interrupted by nightmares. I can make it through this, I can. I wish I could detach on this but my mind goes wild. Just need to stick with my plan, continue to detach. I knew this was coming but it does not hurt any less.
What I don't really understand is she is a smart woman. This guy is not educated, is 38 and does not have a place of his own, hangs out in bars and with druggies, and has a job like a high school kid? WTF why was I sooooo incredibly bad that she moved on to something like that?? She is going to have to support his broke a$$ while he drinks away his any money he has and can scam off her. It also kills me he will be around my kids!!!
I really need to step back and avoid any contact with her in order not to explode. This is not going to be easy. 180 she would expect me to confront her on this... I am not going to do it.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF sorry I can't really even think straight right not.
Regardless, I am not going to react. I am not going to say anything, I need to work on me. Question is how can I work on me when I feel like killing him and then taking a warm bath with a razor. No I am not going to do anything like that, but I certainly feel like it.
Tim,
I'm sorry buddy. That's brutal.
There is absolutely no logic in affairs. I've heard that most people that have affairs usually do so with a partner that is "less than" their spouse. You would think it would be just the opposite.
I think W likes the way OM makes her feel about herself. I'm sure he charms her and that makes her blind to who he really is.
There is absolutely nothing you can do but to detach right now. Seriously, the odds of them ending up together in anything long term are nil.
I wish there was a short cut but there's not.
Realize that your W is an addict right now. And addicts act like.. well, addicts. Nothing she is doing makes sense and it won't anytime soon.
You probably won't sleep tonight but try and get some rest. Even if you just put on some jazz music and lay there.
Hang in there, pal. And stay off of her FB. The cats outta the bag and there's no sense in torturing yourself looking at that crap.
I am just so disappointed (what happens when you have expectations) and angry. My god am I angry!!
From here on out, I need to work on the anger and focus on the kid!
Thornton, I read your story of your exwife. That is my fear, how much fight do I have in me? Am I just going to have nothing left when she finally realizes the mistake she made? Will I be empty for her with nothing left to give. In the end will it all be for nothing? I can see a clear picture on others' thread but when it come to me, I just don't know... nothing is clear and I feel I am just spinning my wheels. Every insult kills a little more of my heart, will there be anything left alive in me when she is done or I decide to finally move on?
Really, how will I have trust again! My very first love, whom I was pre-engaged to in high school also cheated on me. Funny thing is it was at the same time as my dad caught my mom cheating. It was not until this relationship that I ever trusted someone. Even then I don't think I ever really let her in. So now whether I ever get W back or move on to a new relationship, how will I ever trust anyone again? How could I not have a wall built around my heart?
I'm struggling with this too. It's so easy to see other people's sitchs and have something meaningful to say, but we can't see through our own.
What I will say, as someone who has overcome severe abandonment issues, it does happen: it takes work. Trust is earned by the little things. The fight that doesn't end in someone on the couch. The openness that happens when you bare yourself to someone and they don't run or laugh. Of course, my sitch is bringing up all of my old abadonment issues but I'm not going to let him take that away from me too. And if you approach it with that mentality, you can master the pain. don't let what she did make you cold. She's not worth it. No one is. Remember, none of us gets out of this alive, how do you want to live? I made a conscious decision that Id rather get close to people and lose them than to never have had it at all. The pain to me is worth it.
But that is a real issue for me... Is the pain worth it? Does it make sense to take that risk? My only track record is of people doing this to me, so odds are if I open myself up it will happen again. That is what I know. I have walked around in a fog since January. It has gotten any easier on me in those two months and it is likely not going to get any easier. Actually, it will undoubtedly get worse, the divorce papers, seeing them together, hell they may even have a kid.... That would be the ultimate insult since she aborted mine. So really is it worth it?
Sorry I am so negative, it is the anger talking and I think for tonight, I better just try to get the sleep I can.
You'll have more better days (or so they tell me). But you can't ask yourself if it was worth the pain while you're still bleeding.
Ask a pregnant woman right after giving birth if she wants more kids. The answe is always no. But given time, the pain is forgotten for the gift it brought.
But I also know all about where you are right now. I've been feeling that all day. Dropping the rope,saying nope I'm done and going into protect mode but I also know that yesterday I felt different and I'll likely feel different tomorrow.
Well somewhat out of my meltdown last night. Only got 2 hours of sleep. It is very frustrating when sleep becomes your enemy because your mind wont stop racing. The anger is still there and trying to come to grips with it. All I can think of doing something to hurt her, then think I should not act until I calm down. For example she is still on my car insurance, I was thinking about calling and cancelling on her car today. Obviously not a good idea because it is completely out of anger. Then I think I should contact her and let her know she has till the end of the month before I cancel it. Not sure if the motivation there would be out of anger. Probably but why should I continue to pay.
Also thinking about filing for custody of the S13. He has been saying about wanting to live with me. I know this would not sit well for her and she would view it as an attack. But it may be better to do it now before too much time passes.
Needless to say I am trying to figure things out while my brain is not working properly!
I think the best thing to DO right this minute is nothing.
Take a deep breath, and keep listening and watching with your mouth shut.
Get a good night sleep, take something called rescue sleep by Bach if you really need it.
When you are more rested then come back to the above post and decide what course of action to take.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Thanks Cadet and Thornton. Unfortunately, I wont be able to get any sleep until tonight. I may take a sleeping pill though. I just hate the hangover effect they have. Right now I just have so much anger and so many unanswerable questions and just don't know how much fight I have left in me.
Sparks that's for your help last night too. I did not say it then but I appreciate it!
Am going to try and take a page from Thornton's book and have two me goals:
1. Make it down to 158 (MAWA open wrestling weight)which means continue the diet and workout with my club kids. Also if I am going to wrestle in the division I need to practice, so one of my other coaches are going to have to wrestle at club practice. We started that last night, I will just have to keep it up.
2. Train and Run a 5k. Did I mention I HATE RUNNING. This will be out of my comfort zone...severely out of it. But I just think it would be a 180 and GAL for me. Plus the training will also help me with goal one.
I will have to work on my goals more for me but this is what I got right now. Any help would be appreciated.
Good job, Tim.
We're here buddy. Anytime you feel like exploding, just come here and vent.
Last night's events are still fresh for you, it's going to sting for a bit but it will slowly lessen it's grip on you.
Don't think to far ahead about trusting people and things like that. Your job is to just make it through today.
It's so easy for our minds to go into hyper drive and start to obsess about all these different scenarios. Slow down. Take a deep breathe.
This isn't the rest of your life. It's something for you to overcome, and you will.
Those are some great GAL's!!
Sorry to hear about your sitch! Just remember, one foot in front of the other. Take it a day at a time and breath. This is what I say to myself every morning.
As for sleeping, I've found that a good workout/run (I also hate running) 4-5 hours before bed helps. Also a hot shower, Melatonin, and an AudioBook/PodCast helps me fall asleep quick. When I wake in the middle of the night I start the audio backup and focus on that. Works almost all the time. Music on the other hand doesn't work, it has to be something engaging. This might help you also.
Something I tell my children all the time and it might be helpful for us.
"You don't learn from your success, you learn from your mistakes"
Don't beat yourself up for having a bad day or saying/doing something wrong, acknowledge, address, and learn. All much easier to say than do!
Jeez Tim. The other day must have royally stunk!
I can only imagine the rage and fury you were feeling. I'll echo earlier advice. Come here and vent. Let it out man. Also...maybe try and find a safe friend or family member you can trust to be your phone cal prior to taking any major action.
This is something I've been trying as well.
Also...I've been using some breathing exercises when my heart starts to race and my fight or flight kicks in. They've been tremendously helpful. They're are loads online or I can share.
Tim,
The other night must've been torture for you. I am not sure which is worse knowing the OP is a loser or knowing the OP was you 10 years ago (my H's OW is 10 years younger and professional - I've been told she's just like me pre-kids but blond). Either way, it is just devastating and breaks your heart.
I am so glad to see that you are making goals and making 180's for yourself. That is really a great attitude. I also HATE running and signed up to do a 5k in June. Just downloaded the "couch to 5K" app to get ready.
Keep us posted. Thinking of you and keep up the goals and GAL'ing!
Thanks DadsCB!! I will try the audiobook. Like I said I have a hard time with like a hangover just taking Tylenol PM.
So I would like some feedback on this question. Sandi if you are out there would love to hear from you... I am thinking of sending her the following text. "Just going through my insurance stuff and your car is still on my policy. I just wanted to give you a heads up that I do not intend to renew it for March."
I just see this as her eating her cake and it has bothered me prior to last night as it is a pretty good expense.
Here is the flip side of that coin. I am rather sure when I do that I will get threats of S13 (which she may try and keep) and being told how I am controlling her. Also there is the timing with last night's events.
Please any feedback would be great. From wording to whether I should send or not.