Sorry I can't link to previous threads on the ipad so I've repeated my last post. if someone could help I'd be grateful.
Well it has been an interesting day! Met W to try to sort out accounts but stopped by various technical problems. She was concerned that S wouldn't go to see her parents for the holidays. He won't go with her but could I try? We then spoke about other things and because I was so organized she asked was I getting outside advice? I said no which is true and asked her to look me in the eyes. She said she believed me and it would shake her foundations if she thought I was lying which only goes to show how much she still trusts me. Again she asked how I was and I replied moving on, she hugged me and gave me a kiss on the cheek. We talked some more before finally I asked how she was. She smiled, shrugged her shoulders all moist eyed and said ok. She asked would I invite her to the house on Friday for lunch before taking S to dentist, I said no. Before she left she reached in to kiss me on the lips but I turned my cheek. She asked why I was avoiding her. I said things had changed, she said she was just being affectionate. I decided after our meeting to visit her parents for a quick visit. We've spent the evening after a four hour car drive and we'll leave after lunch tomorrow. They were delighted to see us as they were by themselves. We've avoided talking about their daughter so far. Texted W to say we were going and that I will always try to do the right thing. She texted I know with a kiss. Later I sent her a photo of her S with her mother. Again thank you and a kiss. Weird day. I love her still but I can't give in all the time. Who knows if her relationship will last but I have to move forward alone no matter how much I love her and wish things were different.
Hi Scrant, I think you did well. I had to smile at the 'shake her foundations' comment. Fact is all cheaters lie - and likely OM has lied too. But not Scrant. For your part, I wouldn't tell her that you will always try to do the right thing - just always try to do the right thing and over time that speaks strongest (think lighthouse here.)
Your W continues to want to cake eat and will push at boundaries. I think you did well to keep these in place. Whenever you have had exchanges like this, my advice would be to back right off - NC - and be busy with your own stuff. Leave W to cogitate on what she is losing.
You are spot on with your closing comments and if you are guided by these, you will succeed no matter what your W does/chooses. My only concern in your sitch is GAL and I sense a reluctance from you. But you saw what a boost you got from that big lunch on your W's B'day. Do tell us a little more about how you are pushing out your own boundaries with GAL plans.
Doing well Scrant & take care. It is early days yet my friend xx
Thanks Ancaire. Sotto thanks for your supportive comments. As for GAL I admit it has been on a back burner. I think coming through the festive season and W's birthday etc has been enough for me. Restarting work tomorrow and heading into January hopefully will give me some time to reflect. Left inlaws today without talking about W. Just feel relieved to have let them be with grandson, now looking forward to some time without W asking for things.No reason for contact.
Hi Scrant,
I just caught up on your situation - read the entire thread before this.
It sounds like you are doing so many things right, and that you are being very strong. I know how difficult it must be to live in a foreign country in this situation - I moved to a different country to marry H.
Lunch with a huge family sounds like a lot of fun!
I have a couple of suggestions to tweaks - just what struck me while reading your thread, you've got so much good advice otherwise.
1) Make sure that most of your interactions with W are positive if you can manage it. I get that she is wistful when she sees you, that she misses her family - but if she walks away feeling heartbroken and sad, she will only hide in OM's arms to get away from and forget about those feelings. If you want her to look at you and wonder if she made a mistake, she should walk away from any interactions with a happy and light feeling, something she wants to keep thinking about. Or with a question in her heart, or even more longing.
2) About your son's behavior towards her - I don't think you should let him act towards her in a way you would not have allowed him to do if you were still married, or towards another person. It is satisfying to see a child punish the other parent for the hurt you feel, but your goal is to bring up a polite and considerate young man, right? The way he behaves towards her now, you could be on the receiving end of some day. I have seen this happen in so many divorced families.
Best wishes and keep up the great work!
Painter. Thanks for your thoughts. I try to keep everything upbeat and friendly. She loves to watch tv series in English so I continue to lend her stuff. I try to talk to her about S and Me, the positive things we do away from her, the fun we have still. I always smile!
I get what you say about S. I do remind him that his mother still loves him and would like to spend more time with him. His response tends to be that she never wanted to before, which I can't argue with!
Meeting W tomorrow for the final resolution of our accounts. After that there will be no regular reasons for meeting. Since I got back from her parents last Wednesday I've avoided both chances to see her. Indirectly I know some of what she's being doing but I don't ask. As I gave her some English TV ( against family and friend's advice) to watch I received a couple of texts so thanks and how much she enjoyed it. I replied you are welcome and left it at that. Although I'd love to meet her, chat etc I know that would make her happy and let her cake eat with me as her best friend. Feel a bit sad and lonely at the moment knowing that after tomorrow the NC and detaching will be even more final. There are no reasons to meet socially anymore. When we met up she always wants to talk as if nothing has changed ( we avoid OM and R talks) and I know if I let her into my life she'd be happy to be best friends. I know I have to focus on me and GAL etc.it can be hard to do when also I have to spend time looking after a 15yr old and all their dramas and mood swings. Tomorrow I'm going to try to meet with an informal group of runners. I know I have to let her lead her life, I can't pursue or persuade. If she decides to change her life it will be her decision not mine and then we'll see. It feels like one step more away from someone I still love and miss.
Hi Scranton - this is a crucial time for GAL - replace the interactions you long for with your W, with interactions with others (as long as they aren't single ladies of course.) Those kinds of interactions just lead to way more trouble!
Good for you with the running group! That could be your one regular GAL activity identified and started in January. Can you come up with another one in February? If so, you're on track.
BTW, I understand what you're saying about S15, but I think activities for you once or twice a week are crucial. Does your W spend regular time with him ATM & if so, could you plan some GAL then??
The good thing about you Scrant is you understand the process and you've got there pretty quickly. It's now a case of truly staying on track. Read the 37 rules every single day if you need to - laminate them - and stick with it.
Take care xx
Thanks for the encouragement. S doesn't really want to spend more time with W than he has to. She would love to now but is suffering for the years she didn't really do anything much with him. As for single ladies I'll think I'll have to wait! It would complicate things way too much although I miss feminine company. Fortunately I work with a lot of kind women who put up with me. Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly tomorrow. It's very hard as I love her as much as ever but chasing never worked before. I'll have to trust that absence does make the heart grow fonder.
Good luck for tomorrow and sorry to call you Scranton again - that's my iPad!! I think it knows something I don't! Yes, you know what doesn't work. The challenge is putting it all into practice when faced with your SO....but I have every confidence you will be fine.
Take care xx
Finished our meeting. We spent an hour in the bank. No R talk. W complained about her sister and Aunt giving her grief about her relationship with S and who knows what else? Certainly didn't seem happy. Listened and then changed the topic to lots of info about S and what we have been doing. Told her she could give S a late arriving Xmas present which pleased her. W gave me her MP3 player and asked could I put some music for her. Ok. She wanted to go to another bank but as I wasn't needed I said I'd leave. We finished with a couple of kisses (on the lips as I didn't see the point in saying no again) and a hug. Commented on my cologne. Looked at me smilingly at various moments throughout the hour. Left her with a smile. Who knows what is in her head? Didn't ask about her life, OM etc.
Of course as the day goes on I get to thinking about how good she looked, how at ease I felt in her company and like old times it felt. I felt strong at the time but now I feel down, scared and jealous. Down for the whole sitch, scared what the future might or might not bring and jealous of OM who gets to be with W. I've been trying mindfulness which has helped me try to live in the moment but today I can't see a positive end.
Hi Scrant, I'm sorry you're having a rough day. But it sounds as though you did well with the meeting at the bank. It's good to get these things sorted asap, and then it is done.
It is weird - that feeling of intense familiarity. My H and I haven't spoken for many months now - but last time we did, I felt how intensely familiar it was and how well we know each other. But, fact is he left for someone else and so did your W. The intense familiarity we thought we had has gone, and that is something to grieve. You will have good days and bad - and more good as time goes on. The main thing is not to act on your longings on the bad days - I've never regretted doing nothing on those days.
Keep moving forward - you're doing well. Mindfulness has helped me a great deal recently. I've read a couple of Ekhart Tolle books, plus some Jon Kabat Zinn, and I"m listening to some free Australian Learn to Meditate podcasts just now. They are all good ways to put the focus back onto you.
Take care xx
Thanks. I'll check out the podcasts. I went for a run with the running group. A bit cliquey but I'll try again another day. I've held back from the temptation to text her with any excuse. I won't but I miss her a lot today. Just have to put it down as a bad day. I think doing nothing is the best advice I can take for the moment.
Tonight I decided to go to see a concert of singer who W and I saw a couple of years back. Spur of the moment decision. First time I've ever gone to something by myself. Had a couple of beers and enjoyed the show for about half an hour before I went to the bathroom . On the way back who stopped me but W! Momentary panic as I asked who was she with. She was with a married couple who are friends of ours. No sign of OM. Couldn't really walk away so spent the next hour and half chatting to them. The other couple commented how well I was looking,I took the opportunity to let W know what I'd been upto. She grabbed hold of me for a photo of us together which she sent to friends and S. S told me afterwards he realized how weird it must have been for me. Sang and enjoyed the show. Afterwards told them I was off to see S. W queued with me for coats. Hug and kiss goodbye. Later I sent her a couple of photos and video taken from front row . She sent me a photo of the singer with her signing her ticket. She told me S had turned down a lunch with her tomorrow. I told S that I still loved W but I couldn't change things and I have to live my life as if she isn't coming back. Strange evening as W seemed so pleased to be with me, wondered why OM doesn't appear with her but in the end I know nothing has changed.
Hi Scrant, that was a funny coincidence and I'm glad your W was with friends rather than with OM. It sounds like you did well to come across as an independent guy who looks well, is dealing with things and going places. All very attractive.
Again, I would always err on the side of caution with the hugs, kisses, texting stuff. As a general rule, I would say don't initiate and respond at 70% of her level of enthusiasm. Plus, try to stick to whatever you would do with a neighbour or colleague.
As for why OM wasn't out - well there could be 1001 reasons, but not your sandbox right? Know this - until or unless your W 'breaks' and speaks genuinely and remorsefully to you of her desire to reconcile - stick firmly to your path. Glimmers of this or that (ie: her out with friends rather than OM) are merely to be noted and then filed away.
Good for you with the GAL my friend. You see how GAL always leads to SOMETHING..we don't always know what. But the very act of getting yourself 'out' can bring new gifts into our lives.
Have a great weekend. And remember, any time after a good interaction with W - draw back - never prolong...
Take care xx
Last night sees like a surreal dream. It always feels strange not to be in touch with W then whenever we meet it as if nothing has changed. Trying not to over analyze what happened. Just tried to be friendly, let her see me happy not down etc. don't want to have false hope but definitely haven't got over her yet. We never talk about R or OM. She seemed resigned to S not wanting to see her which I found strange. She had texted him to meet for lunch but he said he didn't see the point. When I got home talked to S who was in a good mood after watching a Basketball game. I said I' ve no problem with him doing things with his M, he said he knows but doesn't want to. He worried more about how I was coping with W's surprise appearance. Don't know if things went well or not last night, just feels strange. No idea how she will have seen it. Seemed happy to be with me but as always back home to OM!
Hi Sotto! Didn't see your reply to my previous post. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep firm. She was surprised to see me out on my own! Next Friday she is away for 5 days with OM, a trip they booked in November. No danger of bumping into her! I' ll keep on my path, not initiating and see what happens.
She's started to text me saying it was nice to see me last night and she enjoyed the concert. Not sure if I should respond or not?
I would leave it for at least a couple of hours & then something like..
Me too - it was a great gig - enjoy your weekend.
Then after that - leave it unless it is essential stuff....then get out & get busy! Xx
Hi Scrant, just bumping you up to see how you are getting along? Been thinking about you. Do post, and let us know how things are going when you get chance xx
Hi. I think I'm like everyone in January, feeling a bit low and not too optimistic about the future.Haven't had contact with W except for Friday when she texted me to pass on a message and finished with kissy face icon. Realised then I'm not nearly over her as I was pleased to hear anything from her. Sticking to not initiating any contact but I do find myself missing her and wishing things were different. She's now on holiday with OM and staying with his sister in an island appartment so I'm trying to avoid speculating about them. She still has minimal contact with S, collects him a couple of times a week and that's it. I'm sure she texts him frequently but he never mentions it. Next month I start a few cookery classes but at the moment just busy working and being with a teenage S.Trying to find sometime each day for mindfulness which at least helps me to stop beating myself up and dwelling on things too much. Reading other threads makes me realise that I'm relatively lucky that things are amicable but I feel in limbo as I haven't given up on W even though I know it is highly unlikely that things will ever change. She would love to have me as a best friend which I just can't do at the moment. A bit lonely at the moment as most friends and colleagues have their own families and lives to be getting on with. Still can't complain and who knows what the future will bring? Life is full of surprises as we all know!
Hi Scrant, I read about this trip for your W and OM with OM's sis - and I always struggle with how readily people will accept these A's. I guess you never know quite what she may have been told but - Gah!
Anyway, it sounds as though you are doing pretty well. It is normal not to feel optimistic. Know that, even in sitches that turned around, the LBs had their share of feeling things looked hopeless.
I think you are right with the 'no best friends' policy, and it is good that you have some cooking classes starting up. How about a supper club?? I would love to see you extend your GAL a little further. I only harp on about it because it truly does help, and it does help you meet new people in similar situations. Would you consider a local support group for divorced or separated people? These often have social scenes too.
Anyway....keep posting and keep remembering the 'never lose hope however hopeless...' Rule.
Take care my friend
Round here there doesn't seem to be a functioning support group and to be honest at the moment I don't feel like doing anything which resembles dating. Busy dealing with paperwork that I've let slide and a dishwasher that has broken down.
I still dream of W almost daily which affects me mentally. Some are erotic, some mundane and some critical. I'm working normally but W is on my mind way too much. I feel like I'm taking a step back at the moment. I know what I should be doing and try to shake it off but I find myself speculating about her and remembering the better times. This is the longest NC we've been and knowing she is on holiday in the same place as she went last year when she lied to me brings back a lot of darker thoughts. I also worry that her relationship with S is so poor. I am resisting contact until the end of the month when a brief financial email will do. Finding it to resist when I know she would happily take me on as best friend. Trying to keep strong but it seems to be getting harder!
I'm not criticizing when I say this, because it's not easy to do, but you really need to detach here.
Your W is not the woman you love. Look at her with fresh eyes. She is literally walking out of a marriage and living the party lifestyle, flaunting a new man in your face. The "HER" you love is the person that loved you back, was committed to you, did nice things for you, was loyal to you. The way I always viewed it is this person is your W's identical twin sister that murdered your W, destroyed your marriage and family, and is now trying to manipulate you through your feelings for the woman you loved to give her whatever she wants, be that an 'amicable divorce' (meaning she gets what she wants), or just lots of validation that she is hot stuff. How can you be attracted to this sadistic and evil twin?
Spend time grieving the loss of your W, and your M. Fine. But let her go. You can't detach in your mind overnight. But you can damn sure detach in your behavior. Don't break NC, and don't compromise your boundaries. She is poison and will do nothing but tear open the wounds that are just barely starting to heal.
I always say "How do you expect her to get over OM if you can't get over her?"
Really. Think about it.
Someone has to transcend emotions and longings, get some strength from above, and live with some purpose. That is you my friend.
It's not an easy road, but it is doable. I'm now 19 months out from BD and I can tell you two things about WAW: 1) She never changed, she is with OM #5 (that I know of), she is partying, she is the social media queen, etc, and 2) I don't care in any way, shape or form. I don't even feel pangs anymore. She literally is just a woman with a poor compass in life that made an understandably short sighted decision that destroyed our family. I hope her life turns out well, but I'm past even wanting her to regret her decision someday. Her life and mine are so far apart that her remorse or lack of it doesn't intersect with my journey. I tell you this because she ain't about to have second thoughts at the courthouse, she's long, long gone, and her journey is leading far away, if her path crosses yours again it will be surprising and would be years from now. So please don't wait up for her. Take care of yourself and follow the trail of breadcrumbs I left for you through detachville, GALminster, and 180burgh.
Scrant, Zues offers some good advice here. It's really important to keep working on that focus shift away from your W. Thing is, she has nothing good to offer you right now. It took me a while to realise that with my H, but it is true. What she could offer you right now, would not be what you want.
From all I have read on this forum, a couple of things need to happen in separate journeys. The LBS needs to overcome their longings (and codependent) behaviour and rebuild their own lives, get to a place where they truly will be okay either way. The WAS needs to fall flat on their face, realise OP isn't what they want and realise their new life is miserable.
Until both things have happened, I don't believe successful R is likely. Of course, you don't have much control over the WAS bit, but you can remove yourself from the equation and neither be friend or crazy ex. That part is easy (well...easy to get, but not always easy to do..) The other part is the you part. That part is about getting your own chit together without her in terms of parenting, finances, housing, work, friendships, social activities, health etc.
GAL helps with this a lot, and it is a case of finding GAL that works for you. It doesn't all have to be daunting stuff like Meetups - but to have enough going on in your life to shift focus away from your W, helps a great deal.
Take care xx
Thanks guys for giving me a well needed push. It is too easy sit navel gazing and wallowing in self pity. The next few days I should be fairly busy and I've decided to keep strong and continue with the NC and GAL. Tomorrow evening I'm going to a meeting with time for questions afterwards so have to think of something intelligent to ask! I know it is time to stop be scared of the future and worrying about things which may or may not happen. It's time to deal with the present, things I can change and make better for myself. When I make an effort to enjoy my work or home life I generally do feel better so why dwell on the things which make me unhappy and I can't change?
Good for you Scrant....are you in the UK?? Have you tried looking into divorce recovery workshops? I did one last year and it was helpful - not suggesting you will get D'd, but those who attend are recovering from a break-up and there tends to be a nice social scene surrounding the groups too. I was out with my DRW buddies last night
Thanks Sotto. I'm from the UK but I've been living in Europe for 25 years so I have the added distance form family etc. Locally there is an address for a divorced/ separated group but it doesn't exist in reality! As I've said before most friends and family came from W. I also have let friends slip by over the years as I concentrated on S and W. My own fault really as I'm quite shy around strangers and new situations. Still in the last couple of months I have made a few efforts to get outside my comfort zone. Time to face the world for myself and GAL!
That's a shame about the group. Is there a contact person and any possible interest in reviving it? Also NMMNG groups exist worldwide (I'm not suggesting you're a reforming nice guy btw, but that's a way of meeting new male friends perhaps?) Also Meetups is worldwide and perhaps there might be something locally. And reconnecting with old friends is worthwhile too. Perhaps something linked to your S's activities (other dads?) or through work?? Just a few thoughts anyway..
One thing I have found with GAL is it takes a while to do some groundwork and you come across a few dead ends on the way and it can all feel a bit frustrating. Then you have the build up to trying things the first time with strangers. It isn't always easy, but once settled into a few things, they can lead to other things (as you chat to people about what is going on locally) and before you know it you have some new friends and activities you genuinely enjoy going on.
But you do need to overcome inner resistance and be willing to step beyond your comfort zone. Good luck - and if you focus on the challenge of GAL, you are not focusing on your W....
Take care xx
I've taken a look at Meetups and for my area there is a group for singles who don't want to be single anymore. I'm not there at the moment. I'm just working and sorting out paperwork for now. Today I had to go a yearly all day work training session and when I got back it just felt so weird to have the house empty. I'm so used to W asking how it went etc. On Monday I have to email about our monthly agreement for S and his financing.We have had NC for two weeks, the longest time in 24 years. I'm fighting the urge to turn it into a newsletter about me! Should I be at all chatty or would it seem strange to just drily list a series of expenses with no questions about her or information about S and me. W got back from her holiday on Wednesday and took S for a dental appointment on Friday. She wanted to tell S about her holiday but he didn't want to know, she tried to ask him out for lunch but he didn't want to go. She asked him if he wanted to see her new flat but again no. I can't sort out their relationship but I can't understand the mind of a woman who leaves her son to be with OM and then expects nothing to have changed. When she left she had visions that she'd be around our flat bringing food, watching tv etc. She even once said she'd like to go on holiday some time in future and would have no problem sharing a room! I assume she'll have realised by now that can't happen whilst she is living with OM. Feeling very down and don't know if I'm going the right way or not but I can't be the best friend she told me I am in her mind.
Hi Scrant, I'm sorry you're feeling a bit low. ((((Scrant)))) - when in contact with H, I tend to be mainly business, but polite and with one or two pleasant comments thrown in.
So, in your sitch I might say something like - Hi H, hope you had a good break. Here's the info about S's stuff.....insert the info here.....
Maybe add a piece of info about something S has been up to...
Then say - have a good weekend
That's about all I do. But if you have been up to anything interesting, you can always allude to it - but very light touch - don't want to try too hard there...
Sorry to hear about the Meetups. Keep on looking and talking to people about GAL possibilities. It is far better to be doing stuff and meeting new people. What about some sport GAL??
Do treat yourself to something nice this weekend - even if it's just a nice bath or a cup of coffee out.
Take care xx
Thanks for the advice as always. I won't text until Monday evening or Tuesday morning. Last night after posting S texted me to suggest meeting in the centre of town for dinner. While we were waiting for a table five ex work colleagues from years ago appeared behind me, some with their wives. They invited us to join them but as S didn't really know them I said we'd come over for a drink at the end of the meal. A couple of the guys and their wives used to be good friends many years ago until family life, change of jobs etc meant we drifted apart. When we went over to chat it was like the years rolled back. I really enjoyed myself and by the end I exchanged numbers with one of the guys and arranged to join Thursday meetups for a bit of late night soccer. They told me the dinner is was a yearly get together and I should really join for the next one. I didn't have to explain about W, that will come up naturally in time. Left feeling really boosted and S was so pleased for me. GAL can happen in the most unexpected ways!
Hi Scrant
Just caught up with your sitch. You are doing well except for the cake eating you let your W have.
It's hard to not dwell on those small things they do to draw us in.
I too have kids that want nothing to do with my W. 13 and 15 yr old.
W did some pretty selfish things that were abusive verbally and emotionally to them so she could find herself.
I like that you have stepped out of their relationship and left it to W to fix it.
Your son seems to grasp this whole thing well. As long as he isn't holding every emotion in and he can talk to someone.
I'm a few months more into this circus but I still have my dreams and thoughts drifting to W. I'm lucky in a way mine is a vanisher. She is with OM so I won't entertain being her friend or forgive her at this time. Later on who knows. It's the damage to the kids that gets me wound up and will be hard to forgive.
Be strong for you son. He is watching you and will learn to be a better man.
All the best to you
Irish
Great news with the GAL Scrant - it does give you a much needed boost. And one bit of GAL does tend to lead to another. Great that you can play some Thurs pm footie...and who knows, that may lead to another activity. I think it helps if you can open up a little and share your current situation - people tend to be keen to help - particularly if they are or have been in a similar place. No-one forgets how they feel during a period like this.
Hope next week is a good one for you xx
And one bit of GAL does tend to lead to another. Great that you can play some Thurs pm footie...and who knows, that may lead to another activity. I think it helps if you can open up a little and share your current situation - people tend to be keen to help - particularly if they are or have been in a similar place.
This is so true-- I went for a meal on Friday with some friends from the running club and ended the evening with 3 new FB friends, meeting 5/6 new people and one person, who vaguely knows my sitch, reaching out to me to keep in touch to either go out, or go cycling together.
I was engaging and funny in the conversation after the meal and it boosted my self esteem. All in all I am getting more detached and after separation W won't see me for dust. She is off the pedestal that I put her on.
Oops sorry for the bold - no edit need to use preview more
Thanks for all the encouragement. Today I'm really unsettled. W took S for a routine doctor's appointment. I saw him briefly when he got back and he looked bemused. He told me that W had suggested getting a dog last week but he had laughed it off. She repeated the idea this morning. He said her reasoning was that if they shared the dog she'd see him more. We didn't talk more but I'm amazed. When we were together she never wanted a dog when he asked, she doesn't especially like them. I've no idea if OM is good with them or not but she certainly isn't. I don't know if I should stay back and let S and W sort it out, give S my opinon or talk to W. It seems so desperate an attempt to buy his affection, to force him to visit her and probably OM when he doesn't want to. She has asked him to eat out on Friday which I have no problem with, I told S he can tell mum things I do as I don't mind. S said we'd eaten out at weekend but didn't mention my meeting up with old friends, he's very discreet!
Hi Scrant, I would leave well alone with the dog suggestion (not your sandpit that one.) If your W wants to get a dog in her new place....up to her. If S sees more of her if she gets a dog...up to him...none of these things need concern you at all. Her life is not yours any more (at least for now!!)
JMHO of course my friend
I don't want to manipulate S at all but he will want my opinion at some stage. The idea of shared ownership seems to be designed to manipulate his emotions as he loves dogs and logically will want to see "his" pet. I'll try to keep out but it is seems to be an attempt by W to manipulate S. She refused to have a dog before.
I think the only time to get involved is if it directly affects you. If 'shared ownership' means S (you) would sometimes have the dog (and you don't want a dog) you can make your decision known.
I would agree that she is trying to make herself more attractive to S by having a dog. She doesn't realise that for the R to improve, she would need to repair at a deeper level. She's looking for an external addition (dog) to try and fix things.
I'm sure your S can see the situation for what it is. If your S asks for your view - you can always tell him 'I guess it's up to your Mum if she wants to get a dog.'
Hope this helps a little
Hi Scrant, I'm just checking in to see how you are doing my friend. Do drop by and post an update when you get chance.
Take care
x
S and I had a chat about dog idea. He is sharp and knows why W suggested it. He said he'd talk with Mum so I assume he has. I haven't brought up the matter again. I have virtually NC with W. Last Tuesday she texted me about a finance issue and signed off with a kissy face emoticon. I wished her a good day and since then nothing. S met mum one lunchtime for a quick meal.I've started my cooking course and played a bit of soccer last Thursday ( still recovering!). Friday night I ate with sis-in-law and some of her friends. We didn't talk about W and I was friendly, funny and welldressed so if they talk W will know I'm doing OK. S and I have spent a quiet weekend watching sport, he saw friends etc. I know nothing about her and am trying to live from day to day but I miss her lots. Resisting the temptation to be the friend she wants. I know four months is nothing but finding the NC hard, I'm lucky to have a great R with S but I wish the W was here to share our lives. Miss her and don't know how long I can keep going without giving in and being her best friend, let her have her cake. Only the risk of losing S's respect stopping me.
((((Scrant))))
"Miss her and don't know how long I can keep going without giving in and being her best friend, let her have her cake. Only the risk of losing S's respect stopping me."
I understand how you feel here and I think this is about accepting the loss of the old M and grieving for it. If you 'give in' and enter 'best friend' zone - I think you endorse her view that 'this was best for everyone - look we're all great with this.' I don't imagine that's what you want. Her complaining to you that OM is being a bit mean etc. H started doing this to me and I drew a firm line under 'friend and confidante.' Realised that was a role I didn't want to play.
Please let your own respect for yourself govern your actions here (tho I'm sure S's view helps things along.) It sounds like you are doing well with GAL - good for you. Please pour your heart and soul into your own lives and keep moving solidly forward. I think this may bring a better chance of your W turning back than you being a BF and 'supporting' her destructive choice. But - she isn't the focus here - you are and if she doesn't have second thoughts, you will have built a rich new life anyway.
You're doing so well - you've got this my friend :)x
Thanks Sotto. I'll try to keep strong, your advice means a lot. It is good to have this forum to vent on.I've got a few work pressures, parents trying to plan family weddings in the summer, when to visit us etc and all I want to do is just live in the day to day. Also long term planning seems to be a recognition W won't be back, something I know in my heart to be true but it still hurts to face up to it. When she left she said she'd be whatever I wanted, when she sees me she still hugs me and gives me affectionate kisses on the lips so I think it is best to keep the NC going.
Tomorrow I'll have to have some email contact with W for first time in two weeks. We haven't seen each other since meeting accidentally at concert 15th January. I'm wondering how to reply if she asks about the lack of contact. (quite likely) Is it a good idea to admit I'm giving her space for her R, to work on my life etc? She has always wanted to be "friends". I don't want to appear to be sulking or acting like an idiot. Just wondering.
Hi Scrant, no definitely don't say you're giving her space for her R. In fact don't make the lack of contact about her at all. Just tell her you've been really busy lately. You could then breeze on to mention about the footie team - or dinners out, cooking classes etc...nothing OTT, but just conveying the message (by your email demeanour - not overtly) that if she wants to be in a R with someone else, you're certainly not going to put your life on hold.
If you have any concerns about how to respond by email, wait a little while and post here for advice first.
Hope your GAL activities are going well my friend xx
Thanks Sotto, I will think carefully before any reply. Who knows, maybe there won't be one!I've had a few days of doubt but I've come to a moment of clarity which I'm going to try to follow as it makes me feel more at ease.
I'm only responsible for me. I will feel emotions of jealously, anger, grief, sadness etc. They are fleeting moments which can only hurt me if I choose to let them. If I choose to think about her, to rethink the past, speculate on the present and imagine the future, it will only hurt and distress me. It is time to let go, forgive the past and live in the now. Time to love myself, to do things which I enjoy and find interest in the mundane moments of each day. Time to apply mindfulness in all areas of my life. Time to recognise moments of anxiety, stress etc for what they are and then move on. I cannot be defined by these problems and emotions. I can embrace work, solitude, friendship and family in a way which finds peace and happiness in unexpected ways. To be strong enough to say no when needed but to be open and loving to all. To enjoy each moment of the day for what it is. What will be will be. If she wants a different relationship in the future, we'll see what I want and feel then. If she never returns, then I hope I'll be enjoying my life in other ways. She can not have any more influence over my mind anymore. Contact can be kind, friendly and loving but then back to my life and my happiness.
I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but it helps me!
Sounds good to me Scrant!
Been busy with work and maintaining the NC with W. We haven't had any contact for a couple of weeks and haven't seen each other for a month. Just received a text saying "Hi how are you? It's been a long time since I've heard from you."
I don't want to come across a jerk so I don't know how to reply without falling into the trap of reassuring her that I'm still here as best friend. I'm not interested in asking for her news either as I don't want to know about OM. She's texted now because she's working. I'm tempted to reply when I know that she is at home with OM. Would that be petty?
In the end I decided to be brief :
Hi, I'm fine. Thanks for asking. Busy at work .Take care.
I sent it a couple of hours back and she hasn't replied. Feels weird having so little contact with someone you shared everything with for so long. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing but the only alternative seems to be the best friend position which I don't want to occupy. I suppose NC could mean the end of the friendship she wanted to keep when she left. She said I was her best friend, best company etc. I suppose the best thing is to put it out of my mind and continue with my life. Who knows what she is thinking or doing? Only fear is that she can be very stubborn and if she decides I'm ignoring her or sulking then she will harden her attitude. So far when we meet she has always been affectionate and friendly. Am I taking the right line? Not sure anymore.
Hi Scrant, that sounds fine to me and try not to doubt yourself. Let's look at this from both your angle and from her angle.
From her angle, she has chosen to end the M with you and jump into a R with someone else. Choosing that path brings consequences, one of which is your betrayed husband doesn't want to be best chums with you. I would allow her to feel that consequence.
From your perspective, it is going to be most helpful if you can detach from her poor choices and attach to a rich and full new life. I know the loss of her is hard, and it isn't going to help you move forward if you are to-ing and fro-ing with her on a chummy, frequent text basis. Coparenting and practicalities with the odd pleasantly thrown in is my view.
You can always add in a touch more breeziness if you want - Hi W - yes I'm good, thanks for asking. Busy at work & doing some new stuff. Take care
But that's as far as I go. Others might say go dark & ignore any text like that from her that isn't business. But I've never managed the whole ignoring thing. I'm too much of a nice girl! Plus your W isn't in frequent contact, so a brief and breezy reply seems fine to me. I think it's a baby step to have her contact you like that - looking over her shoulder perhaps? But I would not dwell on it any further and would move solidly forward.
How's your footie going? any more GAL plans in the offing?? Xx
Hi Sotto. Thanks for the reassurance, it is much needed. Still cooking, the footie is back on this Thursday. At the weekend I'll meet up with lorts of work colleagues I haven't seen for a while. Relation with S is very close and we can laugh together. Compared to some of the sitchs I've read I can't complain. If only I didn't miss her, lifewould be ok!
"If only I didn't miss her, life would be ok!"
I think this is an important statement, and if you can create a life that is actually okay, despite not having your W in it - that's key. I remember realising that I HAD to rebuild my life, because if H and I got back together from a place of brokenness on my part, there would always have been that fear that I couldn't make it on my own. Fear of losing him again and what might happen to me if I did? Truly, I have missed my H a lot over the past 18 months. However, I have come to realise that a lot of the 'missing' was pretty codependent, and I've been working on that.
I have to say, recently I miss him less - and I feel I'm reaching that point where it would be my commitment to the marriage that keeps me standing more than my love for him. I don't particularly have loving feelings towards him just now. Things have been pretty much razed to the ground in our sitch. But I do know some things - my life will be fine, I will be fine - regardless of whichever ultimate way things go. In fact, I have more confidence I would be fine alone, than that I would be fine if we were together. I worry now whether I could thrive in a R with him - but I also try to accept I could come to feel different in time if something changed from his end....
Anyway, sorry to ramble on & glad you've got to the point you have. Much better than feeling your life is OVER because she isn't currently in it.
Take care xx
Sotto - thanks so much for this post.
Just received a text from W asking if I want to meet up for a coffee an hour before S gets out of sports training. Not sure how to reply. Is it W checking in after my brief reply the other day? To see if I'm still waiting? Or should I go just to maintain a cordial relationship? Take the chance to talk about holiday plans, finances. Or should I politely decline saying I'm busy and maybe some other time? What to do after a month's NC?
bumping for Scrant... I am interested to hear what people think.
Scrant, I am in a very similar situation in terms of limited contact and have thought about what I would say in this exact situation. I would do the same thing you did... which is come here first. My initial thought would be to politely decline, and then maybe propose a different time/day and end with a smiley face or something like that. I would bring that here and see what people thought though.
Best of luck... interested to hear what you do and how it goes.
It really depends on if you want to be her BFF or if you want a marriage.
If you want a marriage, politely decline. The cardinal rule of DBing is this: ACTIONS, not WORDS
So, telling her that you won't be her best buddy while she's in an A, and telling her that you're moving forward and not waiting...that would be pointless. Especially if you are meeting her for coffee's at her first invite for no reason.
Instead SHOW her you're not going to be her best buddy or stand by waiting. I like the light/breezy response. If she pushes further don't reply immediately, just post here.
Thanks Zues. I've left the text unopened all day so I think I'll go with:
Hi. Thanks for the invite but I'm busy most Thursdays. Maybe some other time. Take care😀
Hi Scrant. I'm far from an vet so take my advice with a pinch of salt if you wish
How about saying thanks for the offer of coffee ( no rejection or closing doors ) but o can't this time because I'm busy with X , Y or Z right up until the practice How about a rain check. ?
For me , this would show willing on your part but also show your aren't running after them
Again just my humble opinion
Take care. Rd
Bring back the edit button!
Thanks Zues, Pinn and RD I've left the text unopened all day. I've thought it over, texted a friend and I think I'll go with:
Hi. Thanks for the invite but I'm busy most Thursdays. Maybe some other time. Take care
There isn't a reason to come running the first time she is curious. I've got some shopping to do and then out for a game of soccer if it doesn't snow!
Got back the reply: Ok Whenever.
Haven't replied, not much to say to that! Think it is time to continue with the NC. I'm only going to initiate contact when I need to, holidays with S and finance. Will continue with GAL. ON Saturday I'm meeting up with some workmates and others for a lunch at one of their houses. Not going to overthink things as I don't know what is going on in her head.
good for you Scrant. Glad to see I wasn't far off from what RD and Zues suggested. I think I would get a similar reply.
I like your plan!
Hi Scrant, sorry I was late to the party. But I see others have already offered sterling advice and I think your response was spot on. Not churlish at all - but not scrambling to gobble up scraps on offer either.
I would think nothing more about it and forge on forwards. If she asks again, just post again and see what the advice is - no need to worry about it in the meantime.
Glad you have nice GAL plans this weekend - enjoy xx
Finished soccer to find message from W. Miss you. Good night. Uff. As what? A H or a friend? I've replied gently but not as strong as her, just Good night. Look after yourself.
Don't want to read too much into it. Who knows?
Hmmm... this is getting interesting. Keep doing what you're doing. She seems to be sniffing around..
Hope that means good stuff for the future! I think you are doing a great job of asking for advice on the boards, being patient and not getting too anxious. Keep us posted.
Hi Scrant, that's interesting. Maybe she and OM having a wobble....
Thought your reply was fine - 60% of her enthusiasm. Another time, you could miss the message that night & respond next day etc....change it up a little.
Who knows Scrant, she and OM may be back to 'luvved up' tomorrow. Always best to get focus back on to you and expectations zero.
Well done with the self control x
Thanks for all the advice and support. I'm determined not to overthink this. Who knows? I can't chase, it has never worked before. I'm just chilling with S at the end of the day. I have learnt I can't do anything to change her so I can only try to look after myself and S. I imagine it is too early for any major change. It has only been four months and her infatuation has been going a lot longer than that. We'll see what happens but I don't want to get too optimistic.
ahhh them pesky pesky WW's. They really all are quite similar. Good job Scrant. It is hard not to over think (trust me, I know!) but it will save you a lot of grief. Keep us updated and enjoy that GAL'ing!
The other thing Scrant is your W will keep wanting to create the dynamic where you remain in the picture. She wants her 'plan B' in place. So any time you go pretty dim, she has a little prod and tries to make sure you are still 'on the hook.' I notice in many sitches, once the WAS has established - yep, still on the hook - they are reassured and go back to business as usual. However, if you aren't apparently 'on the hook' anxiety grows - as this wasn't how it was supposed to play out. You weren't supposed to get your own life, leaving her on the kerbside.
As you say - do bear in mind the length of the road and also the fact that there needs to be a pretty seismic meltdown in the WAS circumstances in order for them to 'turn toward home.' I've read phrases like 'school of hard knocks' 'flat on their faces' 'broken.'
Whilst your W may be having some little wobbles, I don't believe she is in that place yet. If she gets to that place, there is no mistaking it for sure. Stay your course for now xx
Hi. No things have gone quiet. I had a great GAL weekend. Spent most of Saturday out with people while S did things with his friends. Sunday I went out for a drink with my sister in law and her friends. No W talk so that was fine. W hasn't been in touch and I haven't got any reason to until the beginning of March. Who knows what happens when she goes silent? I was surprised by her message last week but not going to chase. I can only keep working on my life.
Quick update. S has been to the dentist to fit some braces. W phoned flat to ask S how it went and see him. I was tidying in kitchen. He told me he was going down to see her as she had asked to come up. He told her he didn't want her coming into the flat and I was here. While he went down she texted me asking if I couldn't stand seeing her. Haven't replied and to be honest after her miss you text the other day I don't know what to say if anything.
Don't know if replying will help me or just to ignore the message. If I reply I really don't know what to say without making things worse. Sometimes inaction might be best.
Hi Scrant, I don't see a problem replying - if breezy and busy
Hi W - no, S just wanted to come down to you. Great he's underway with braces & take care
If you ignore, I guess there is a risk that she will think - Oh, he clearly can't bear to see me - and might you look churlish?
TBH, I wouldn't sweat it too much either way - but if you do want to reply I think it's fine on the basis - ie: giving the impression that you wouldn't really waste too much energy on her coming up or not...
JMHO of course xx
Thanks Sotto. Finally I sent this:Hi. S wanted to come down and see you. The braces look good, don't you think? Take care. Her response was I said I would go up and he said no because you were at home. I saw him with all the neighbours staring. The braces are almost invisible. It looks easy to wear. Goodnight.
Don't know what to make of that.
Hi Scrant, I don't think this needs a reply. I'll offer my perspective on what she said below if that helps at all....
I said I would go up and he said no because you were at home. (She still wants to maintain a 'friendly' (we're all okay with this) relationship and was thwarted by S's discomfort. (And what your S feels and says to his Mum is up to him.)
I saw him with all the neighbours staring. (She felt people were watching - maybe they were, maybe not - and she was embarrassed, unhappy)
The braces are almost invisible. It looks easy to wear. Goodnight.
I think your W is 'living' the path she 'chose' with that exchange today. I don't think anything further is needed from you.
Take care xx
Thanks Sotto. You've given me a real boost. Now back into NC until the next text!
The last few contacts have left me really unsettled. Don't know how to interpret her actions. Miss you then a surprise visit. I know I have to concentrate on me and S but I don't know what is going on in her.
In her mind! edit button?
My guess is she's trying to keep all options open. Doesn't want to give up OM. Has doubts about OM. Partly misses 'home.' Doesn't want to go back to how she felt 'before.' Wants to check if you're still 'on the hook.' It's all a little crazy and may not change any time soon.
The main thing is to stay detached from 'crazy' and not spend too much time worrying about what it all means. Your W probably doesn't know that - confusion and more confusion.
I think you are on a good course though and I think you maintain good self-control in the face of these challenges. Minimally available, though pleasant, rebuilding your life etc. That's all good stuff. Best to leave her to work through whatever may be going on and avoid a triangular relational situation above all. Xx
Thanks for your thoughts Sotto. It is hard to step back sometimes and analyze things clearly. I think you are right so on with NC and GAL.
NC can be hard. Today I tried a forgiveness meditation which brought up a lot of emotions. Found myself thinking about her miss you message and wishing I had asked In what way? Too late now.
She has been posting on a wider family message group photos of food she has cooked to give to S today. Later she texted me for the first time since Monday to ask me to look for a couple of books to give to S for her this afternoon.She can't remember the title of one so I texted back saying I'd try if I had time and asking for more info. She didn't reply. Feel disappointed that I feel so affected by her and fighting the urge to text more being chatty about S and all the other things we used to talk about.
Hi Scrant, I think to respond to 'I miss you' with 'in what way' would apply immediate pressure, so I'm glad you didn't go there. It is always best to respond with something more neutral - like 'thanks W' & leave it at that.
I can recall a post from a while back. A poster's WAS had asked them face to face - do you miss me? I can't recall what the poster replied - but the advice was to say - of course there are things I miss about us being together. We we were together a long time & I have many happy memories...(all said calmly and looking happy.)
I don't think that works for text & a statement rather than a question - but it may be worth bearing that one in mind in case she does ask directly at some point.
Keep fighting the urge to text more. She would love to have you as her chum if you give the opportunity. However, I don't think that will serve you well in the longer term. If she wants you to get the book, she'll come back with more info for sure.
Take care & good job with the meditation - emotions are always better brought up than stuffed down. Xx
Hi Scrant,
Our situations have taken an eerily similar turn. I feel like I read your situation, and found myself in the same position days later. It was weird, but helpful.
I run into the same issues as you. I take one of course of action that is well thought out. I feel good for a few days and then begin to second guess every aspect of what I had done, similar to you with the I miss you text. The the urge comes to contact. It will be non-existent for weeks, but then it comes back strong, very hard to resist. I think we are doing pretty well. Just need to stay strong.
Hi Scrant and Pinn, I feel your struggles of trying to understand trying to analyzing any interaction, I do it regularly and my W is still at home. She is due to move next week, but i still get many random texts, phone calls to find out when I'll be home from work etc. she wants to know where I go, who I see often. Questions I answer politely but without any information.
I will be curious to see how things will be different when she has moved out, a I don't ask her anything at all about her day, etc.
There will always be some contact because of our kids but I have taken no interest in her life, for the most part, for several weeks. I want to take some strength that you show and give strength to you both and how you are handling things in the world I am about to enter.
Thanks
Thanks to all of you for the support and comments. I know we shouldn't overthink every interaction and generally as many vets say the best course is to do nothing. In the end I guessed the W's book so there was no need for contact. Back to NC and GAL, and trying to find the next level of detachment. I know that soon I'll have to be in touch over finance and Easter holiday plans so find myself speculating and second guessing her response in advance which doesn't help when trying to live in the day. Thanks for all the support and strength given on this site, I read many sitches here but don't think I can give better advice than the many kind vets, I'm still feeling my way towards the light!
First contact with W for a week. Had to text about S and plans for summer. Formal and friendly enough. She finished her last email How are you? Fancy meeting anytime? Miss you.
Ball in my court. Don't know what to say really. The miss you makes me think she misses my company as a friend but who knows?
Hi Scrant, I tend towards no response on that one...but if you do want to respond - just do so on the basis of - good thanks! - all pretty busy just now - take care....
Or something along those lines you know?? No point in meeting up for a chummy coffee when she remains entangled with OM IMHO....
Hey Scrant,
You are strong. I think most people would have jumped all over that comment and the previous ones. My WW also said she wanted to meet but I feel the exact the same way. There is just something about the way she said it that makes me feel like what she actually misses is the best friend aspect of our relationship. I do have to meet with her soon for tax stuff though. That'll be interesting.
I think you are doing great. She has said miss you and asked you to get together multiple times now. I agree with Sotto, you could probably let this one go. I don't know all the details with OM, but I wouldn't meet with my WW if I knew OM was around. Best of luck... I look forward to reading of your story.
How are you? Fancy meeting anytime? Miss you.
Yes, I think this is the kind of thing my good old friend would text. I see her every few months or so for lunch & a chat. The thing is - she has never betrayed my trust. She hasn't walked away from 'our' marriage and shacked up with an OP etc.
I think your W is hoping you can have similar contact. Meet for coffee, chat etc. It is possible that at some level she really misses the R. However, I believe all WAS's need to reach a point of absolute realisation of what they will lose and don't want to lose. Otherwise, you are just her dumped spouse acting like 'friends' when she is living with OP.
JMHO of course. There could be a case for going along for the occasional coffee - looking and smelling great and having to leave for another engagement. However, I do feel your W keeps trying to push at this boundary (the we will not be pals one) and it may be best to just keep to very limited contact unless something significant changes.
I agree with Pinn - you are strong, and you are doing really well. Take care xx
Thanks for all your thoughts. I think for the moment I'll stay clear of meetings etc. I don't know what is happening in her other life, it could be wonderful or not what she expected. I don't know and haven't asked her or any of her family. Given the length of her obsession with OM I don't expect any major change, she has regarded me as a best friend for sometime mentally while she was leaving me for him and saying sorry, crying when meeting etc. I'm reading up on Mindfulness at the moment and just accepting the present for what it is and discovering the unexpected in each day. Of course I'd love to see her and have things change but I that isn't my decision. Thanks for checking in on me. All your comments mean a lot to me.
Good for you with the mindfulness. I'm working my way through a series of 50 Learn to Meditate (Australian) free podcasts at the moment. I think I'm on number 25 or something. I like them - you have a mini lecture on the theme for that meditation (eg: forgiveness) followed by a 10 minute or so meditation. I also found Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat Zinn helpful. It's a weighty tome and I read it soon after BD, but I found just reading it soothing. I have read a couple of Ekhart Tolle books recently too.
Good call about your W....leave her to float in her own little boat for now....hope your GAL is going well my friend xx
Thanks for the tips. I've downloaded a few to try plus the book is on its way. Today I had to do some extra work in the same place I went the day W told me she was leaving. It always feels uncomfortable and went through many emotions but came home to S. It doesn't get any easier but at the end of the day I just want to be a better me and wait to see what the future brings.
Today I sent W itemized bill for what she has to contribute. it was the first time and she reacted badly. I might have nitpicked a little and possibly misunderstood the exact terms of our verbal agreement. So she mailed how sad she was, that she thought we were different and asked to meet. She was clearly upset. She then bombarded me with expenses from before we divided the money. I could respond in kind but that would only things worse. I've emailed her saying that there has been a misunderstanding and the last thing I would like is to have bad blood between us and if she wants to meet up this evening after work. I added I'm sure we can resolve it all amicably and I didn't want to upset her.
I feel like any goodwill with the miss yous and can we meet up will have been lost and she'll have spent the day crying to OM about her husband and how she made the right decision to leave. Feel terrible
She hasn't replied to the mail which shows how annoyed she is.
After sending another email things have calmed a little bit. She suggested meeting after she has finished a prior meeting with some friends or for lunch tomorrow. I want to get it out of the way asap so we'll meet tonight for a drink and a bite. Feel terrible as this is going to drag me back into the friend zone.
Hey Scrant,
Gotta change your mind set ASAP. 'Act as if' right? Need a PMA going in. Make the most of the opportunity. Re-read the validation thread. You cannot be going into this feeling terrible. You'll be alright.
Thanks Pinn. I'm working on it. Going to get ready and be charming and confident.
Hi Scrant, sorry you've had a bit of a rough day. I actually wouldn't go to great lengths to appease your W or apologise. If you feel you were a little OTT, just say that may have been the case, apologise if so and leave it at that.
I don't think you will be in 'friend' zone. Actually, you can see this purely as a business meeting where you spend the minimum amount of time resolving things, having a drink and a swift bite to eat. Try and keep to 'safe' subjects. What S. Is up to, work etc.
I hope you manage to agree a reasonable way forward and just remember validation - I'm sorry you feel that way etc. Best of luck xx