My first thread: October 11Per forum rules, I'm starting a new thread. I'm not sure what to say in this first post exactly, so I'm just going to talk about what I need to do.
I need to read and re-read the book, and the rules. I need to GAL. And I need to detach, go dark, separate, give space, move on and be my own man. Stop being a doormat. Stop allowing myself to be Plan B.
So far, I have failed miserably and pursued my WW with reckless abandon.
Time for that stop.
We all do it, B. I'm guessing from my experience, as well as what I'm reading on here, that it takes practice. I'm 4 mos in and still fighting the urge to call, even though it backfires every time.
Stay strong!
I'm a little unclear. What exactly is in 10 weeks?
As for your list of things to do, if you still want to reconcile, then why do you say you need to move on? Just set goals for what you want to accomplish and then try to do it. You don't need to end your desire to R with your wife to do that.
My first thread: October 11Per forum rules, I'm starting a new thread. I'm not sure what to say in this first post exactly, so I'm just going to talk about what I need to do.
I need to read and re-read the book, and the rules. I need to GAL. And I need to detach, go dark, separate, give space, move on and be my own man. Stop being a doormat. Stop allowing myself to be Plan B.
So far, I have failed miserably and pursued my WW with reckless abandon.
Time for that stop.
It depends on your goals what you should do. If you want to ensure your marriage is over then keep pursuing your WW. If you want a chance of saving the marriage then 180, and hard. Don't talk about detaching and doing GAL activities. Do it.
I was reading those last few post on the previous thread. I'm sure you are not the first newcomer to get upset at those of us who cut through the usual buildup that we see in the majority of first threads....and we just lay it out and tell him what is really going on. It's comparable to a doctor giving a patient a devastating diagnosis. Some patients react by no longer going back to that doctor. So, we understand that it is not something a LBH wants to believe.
I need to read and re-read the book, and the rules. I need to GAL. And I need to detach, go dark, separate, give space, move on and be my own man. Stop being a doormat. Stop allowing myself to be Plan B.
Can you take these things you say you need to do, and actually incorporate them into a self-improvement plan for this brand new year coming in a few days? When I read the above quote, somehow I imagined your face looking a little gloom, b/c it does not sound like a lot of fun. Plus, you gave it the name of bootcamp.
I believe you could take these and challenge yourself in a way that would be positive and even promote a healthier self-esteem. Seems to me, a person going to bootcamp would come through a lot better if he goes into it with a positive mental attitude. So, I hope you can have the same, and we are here to cheer you on.
For example, be your own man. You have the opportunity right now to do what YOU want to do, without answering or giving an account to another adult. You don't have to check in with anyone, or make sure it's okay with them if you want to go do something. This may your only time that you'll ever have where you are free to live this way. So, how can you make the most of being a free agent?
I keep remembering when my H came home from military bootcamp. He was in the best shape of his life, had a great mental attitude, and acted like his own man. He was not dependent on his parents to make his decisions. Bootcamp proved to make very positive changes in him.
Plus, you gave it the name of bootcamp.
I believe you could take these and challenge yourself in a way that would be positive and even promote a healthier self-esteem.
Just for the record the bootcamp idea came from here.
Sgc set up mentors in a boocamp setting and Mach linked one of the threads to "B" in thread #1.
I think it is a great idea and am glad that sandi will be cheering you on.
What exactly is in 10 weeks?
The 10 week boot camp is what I have been through since October 11.
I don't know how much, if any at all, I can trust my WW anymore.
So, the first post wasn't meant to sound gloomy, it was just a reaffirmation of what I need to do for myself.
When I say moving on, I don't necessarily mean to exclude the possibility of a future R with WW, but at this point I have to act (at least in my head) as though it's not going to happen.
I will be civil to the wife when I have to see her because of the kids, but that's as far as I will go. At least for now...hell...at this point I just need to make it through today without contacting her. One day at a time.
I can re-evaluate anything regarding her later, if and when, she ever decides she wants to try.
Right?
This is all about me now. Moving forward to my own happiness regardless.
I can re-evaluate anything regarding her later, if and when, she ever decides she wants to try.
Right?
Sure! Life never stays in the same spot, so we constantly have to re-evaluate.
Alright, alright, alright...
So. I'm going with a different type of post tonight. This is what B did today. And, its weird, I don't know what's making me feel this way, but I'm feeling happy, joyous and free tonight. (Though, I kinda think I know why.)
Got up this morning, and walked over to the apt manager's office and got some information on a bigger apartment for me and my kids.
Then I sat with this girl who shows the apartments and we talked for a while. She told me she is already way too invested in my story. (I had bought this book called 'The Garden of Peace' and I was going to give it to my wife for Christmas, but I ended up giving it to this girl instead on the day before Christmas Eve.) So, we talked, and she told me I should try learning a new language. And she gave me some pointers on how to approach my OkCupid profile, and she suggested that I try 'MeetUp' and 'Tinder', so guess what? I did.
I took a picture of myself and updated my facebook profile and I've gotten 12 likes on it, and a 'Still Handsome' comment from a girl I new back in high school.
Then I used that same picture for my Tinder account and I've gotten 5 matches just this afternoon and started chats with 2 different women. 1 is about my age, and 1 seems to be a bit younger.
Now...understand, I don't think I'm ready, or intend to be in any kind of a relationship right now. But, I'm following up on an idea I got from TxHubby, and frankly, you know what...it feels good! I'm going to be honest with anyone I speak to.
But guess what I didn't do today?
I didn't pursue my WW. I didn't contact my WW.
So, good for B, right? I feel good tonight anyway, like actually happy.
Oh yeah, and per my sponsor's request/demand from yesterday, I made a list tonight of 101 things I am grateful for.
So, yeah, in general...its been a pretty great day. I mean, most people would consider it mundane and boring, lol. But for me, based on how my past 10 weeks have been, today was freakin' awesome.
Just thought I would share.
I hope everyone else is doing well.
Just out of curiosity:
- What is your goal for joining these sites? What exactly are you looking for?
- How would you react if your W found you on these sites?
- Are you still interested in saving your marriage?
My wife told me I should be going on dates....
If she finds out, I'm not going to deny it. That's part of it, I had to accept that she may very well find out. What's the worst that can happen? She's going to have an affair and ask me to leave?
I didn't answer your other question. My intentions. I just want to start the process of remembering what its like to be a man, and that I like women, and that its okay to be around women. To make friends. To remember what its like to talk a woman, and have her talk to me, and it not be angry or vindictive, or callous or anything else negative.
I'm not trying to hook up, or make my wife jealous. I view it as dating, pre-k maybe? I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen. I know I'm not in any condition for a relationship, and I don't want that. But I think spending time chatting, talking, and possible doing stuff with women will be good for me.
- Are you still interested in saving your marriage?
I don't know. I mean, on the one hand, yes. But...not with the woman that I was married to before, and certainly not with the WW that I have currently. If she decides she wants to stay married to me then she has a lot of things that are going to have to change, just like I'm changing.
I'm currently not the same man she was married to 2 1/2 months ago. And if me talking to women is a problem for her, well guess what, she should have thought about that beforehand.
My wife told me I should be going on dates....
yes. She told you that. Because she doesn't want to feel guilty for being the one to break up the marriage. If she knows you are out doing your thing with other women, then that guilt goes away. It gives her more head fuel to the fire that you are the bad guy in all of this. What if she told you to sign over all your money? Or that she wanted 100% custody of the kids? Would you agree just because she asked?If she finds out, I'm not going to deny it. That's part of it, I had to accept that she may very well find out. What's the worst that can happen? She's going to have an affair and ask me to leave?
this is not a short term process. Of course, there's nothing that will happen right now, besides her yelling at you. But if you are upset that she is having an A of some kind....look at yourself and convince yourself that talking to girls on Tinder is different. In my mind, if you want to stay married, the only difference is the timing. But I think the concepts are identical. I didn't answer your other question. My intentions. I just want to start the process of remembering what its like to be a man, and that I like women, and that its okay to be around women. To make friends. To remember what its like to talk a woman, and have her talk to me, and it not be angry or vindictive, or callous or anything else negative.
what about the girl? People don't sign up for Tinder just to have casual conversation with someone else for the other person's benefit. Ask yourself if what you are doing is being fair to the other woman.I'm not trying to hook up, or make my wife jealous. I view it as dating, pre-k maybe? I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen. I know I'm not in any condition for a relationship, and I don't want that. But I think spending time chatting, talking, and possible doing stuff with women will be good for me.
i don't know. I have a hard time buying it. As I've seen Cadet say, why start a new relationship until you are done with the old one? I think that there are many other ways to get comfortable talking to people rather than one on one with a woman on a dating app. But, that's just my opinion.- Are you still interested in saving your marriage?
I don't know. I mean, on the one hand, yes. But...not with the woman that I was married to before, and certainly not with the WW that I have currently. If she decides she wants to stay married to me then she has a lot of things that are going to have to change, just like I'm changing.
if you want to stay married to Mrs. Bfice, I don't see how this is helping you to achieve your goal.I'm currently not the same man she was married to 2 1/2 months ago. And if me talking to women is a problem for her, well guess what, she should have thought about that beforehand.
ultimately, you can decide to do what you want. It sounds like you are taking this step as a way of "paying back" your W on some level (whether or not she ever knows or cares about it aside.). But it sounds like she hurt you and you are looking for someone else to help ease that pain. I don't think it's these other girls' job to do that for you. It's your job. But again,that's just my opinion.
So, here's the thing. I work from home. I don't have a sister. I don't have a mom. I don't have an aunt or any family members at all that I can speak with. The only woman that was in my life decided she wanted me out of the house.
I don't have to do Tinder or OkCupid. Meetup.com has things where divorced/separated people go to do stuff. I actually just got a message from a girl on OkCUpid informing me of that. If you cuold read my profile on OKCupid, its worse than these threads. Its awful. Trust me, there isn't going to be a relationship.
To me, this is me doing a 180. I don't know. Is it risky? Sure. Could it backfire? Yes. Is it the right thing? I have no idea.
I dont know what the right thing is anymore.
But, if I'm honest with anyone I'm talking to, I don't see how its hurting them.
I really don't think this is about paying my wife back. I'm not angry. I wasn't angry yesterday. I honestly feel more cathartic than anything...like things are more clear. I understand that I wasn't just completely paranoid. I know for sure now that she's been lying her teeth off, even when she said she wasn't.
Is this me setting myself up for failure? Maybe. But, I mean, I have to GAL right?
Is this me setting myself up for failure? Maybe. But, I mean, I have to GAL right?
So dating another woman is the only way to GAL?
Awesome job, buddy. I was very open and honest about my intentions when I talked to other women. I said I was basically being dumped by my wife and that I was looking for friends to talk to. Maybe have coffee with sometime. After all, this is what real detaching and moving on really is. Once you start really truly moving on then you enter the no-lose zone. Either she snaps out of her bullsh!t or you move on and pursue your great new life/adventure. You're doing great, my friend.
TxHubby, I think you do give good advice but I think there's something missing. While it's true most of that advice of not being the plan B and gain some of our mojo back is good, most of us aren't just here because our S decided to cheat. Many of us have issues that led up to thr breakdown of our M, issues we should be focusing on and fixing instead of dating. When we start talking to other women our emotional needs begin to be met and then there's no reason to do any mirror work because we convince ourselves the S was the problem.
You might have been strong enough to talk with other woman and develop only a friendship that doesnt lead to a relationship but not all of us are.
Truth is very few of us are ready for a new relationship and getting involved in one is just hurting the other person. Its also skipping any real change we could do that might avoid our next R from failing also. Sure, the S's actions are out of our control but that doesn't give us an excuse to ignore our own.
Ya'll are giving me grief, and I know that you're probably looking out for my best interest, and the interest of others.
The WW has removed any relationship status on FB as of today.
I mean...
TxHubby, I think you do give good advice but I think there's something missing. While it's true most of that advice of not being the plan B and gain some of our mojo back is good, most of us aren't just here because our S decided to cheat. Many of us have issues that led up to thr breakdown of our M, issues we should be focusing on and fixing instead of dating. When we start talking to other women our emotional needs begin to be met and then there's no reason to do any mirror work because we convince ourselves the S was the problem.
You might have been strong enough to talk with other woman and develop only a friendship that doesnt lead to a relationship but not all of us are.
Truth is very few of us are ready for a new relationship and getting involved in one is just hurting the other person. Its also skipping any real change we could do that might avoid our next R from failing also. Sure, the S's actions are out of our control but that doesn't give us an excuse to ignore our own.
I definitely understand that. I usually don't comment on those type of threads. My experience is with MLC/temporary insanity/cheating spouse. I know what failed and I know what worked.
Hey all. Still around. Made it through another day without contacting my wife. 2 in a row now.
I was pretty bummed earlier today when I looked on facebook and I saw that she had set her relationship status to nothing. It doesn't say anything, just 'relationship information unavailable' if I click on that tab.
Oh well...she's going to do what she's going to do. But it still hurt.
I chatted a little bit with a woman today, but it was nothing more than a few sentences. Also RSVP'ed on a nature hike for this Friday that is with a divorce/separated group of people via meetup.
What else...well...I had a meeting with our priest today. It was actually pretty good. He didn't get all caught up in the dogma of religion and preachy about potential divorce. I was very open and honest about where I was/am regarding my alcoholism, the separation with my wife, and my desire to get God to be more present in my life.
Towards the end, I was expressing how I would like to do some type of service work, so he asked me if I would go with a deacon from our church to go pray with a woman from an elderly housing facility. I said sure.
The crazy part of the day came tonight, when I went to an AA meeting. And all of a sudden the same deacon from this morning walks in. And I was totally shocked. But apparently, our priest, set it up so that he and I would meet. It was actually really amazing, and I ended up feeling extremely touched, and I think/hope the deacon did too.
We are going to go back tomorrow morning to meet with the lady at the housing unit, and he expressed a desire to talk with me, because he's only a couple of months ahead of me in my sobriety.
What [censored] is this is the kind of crazy story that I would love to share with my wife, and I think she would be very happy to know that it was happening, but I'm not going to even mention it to her. (For one thing, there is a desire from our deacon to remain with as much of a level of anonymity as he can maintain, but also, I don't want to get caught up in sharing with my wife and end up pursuing or invading her space.)
Anywho...I hope that anyone who has read and commented on the posts from yesterday maybe can get a little more insight into who I am, and what it is I actually desire and am looking for. I'm not a bad guy, and I'm not trying to go out and mess up myself or any other woman. Just seeking help in as many ways as I can.
Nobody thinks you're a bad guy.
I think 90% of what you're doing is great.
I just don't think bringing other single women in to meet your emotional needs is a path you want to go down.
Good job B. GAL. I love it. You're doing just fine. Take each day as they come. Each hour if you need to. Talk to anyone that makes you feel better because guess what? This is your GAL, not hers. I think you're already starting to realize that although you would love your wife back like it used to be that you are going to be fine if that doesn't happen. Do things that make you happy. You have no one to answer to at this point. She gets no say in your activities. She took herself out of that position. Live my man, live.
And she gave me some pointers on how to approach my OkCupid profile, and she suggested that I try 'MeetUp' and 'Tinder', so guess what? I did.
None of us are the morality police, at least not your morality police, B, but I can see you potentially veering off into dangerous teritory here. OKCupid is a dating site, not a meet up site, and Tinder is a hook-up site. GAL is one thing, dating and hooking up while still married another. I know you do not
think there will be any dating or hooking up as of this minute, but you are a hurting vulnerable man, very vulnerable to women coming on to you and fulfilling your emotional needs. Maybe you could consider asking your Divorce Care leader for advice on these two sites? I'm a frigging lot older than you, but in my view, if we date while still married, even if it is just casual, we are no better than our cheating spouses.
I'm not trying to hook up, or make my wife jealous. I view it as dating, pre-k maybe? I don't know. I have no idea what's going to happen. I know I'm not in any condition for a relationship, and I don't want that. But I think spending time chatting, talking, and possible doing stuff with women will be good for me.
Spending time, talking, and possibly doing stuff with people in general will be good for you. In groups, not one on one with women. Stuff like you mentioned the meet-up group doing, like hiking. Sorry to disagree with TxHubby here, but you are just 11 weeks into this insanity, and are still reeling. We all need to heal and grow before we're ready to start a new relationship, in all fairness to yourself, and the new woman.
oh and how is your wife doing, TX Hubby?
I don't think anyone thinks you're a bad guy either B. It's just when someone is hurt and looking for the pain to stop they are liable to hurt someone else also. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, just human like all the rest of us.
Your W is there. She's so damaged and looking for outside validation of who she is, searching for her our happiness from another person that she's willing to do whatever it takes to get there. That includes hurting you. It's just a dangerous slope getting involved with another single woman at this point in time for us. I would be in the same category just after BD, I know it would only be bad for me and thr othet woman.
Everything ele your doing sounds great and I would keep it up. GAL is one of the most important things you can do to get your mind focused away from W and what she's doing. It's also let you find what makes you happy so you can find your own happiness, remember that comes from inside.
Its also useful to read self help books to figure out what you might of done wrong in your R so you can avoid any of the same mistakes in the future. You can't change or fix her but you can improve you and we all have issues we could work on.
Hey, just stopping by to say hallo. Also married 15 years, and my life also changed on 11 October.
oh and how is your wife doing, TX Hubby?
We're good now. She says she doesn't even recognize herself during that period. She turned 45 and freaked out. It happens. We endured. The secret for us was that I had to be willing to let go of a 26 year marriage in order to save it. As long as I was the nice guy, the supportive guy, etc. she just wouldn't respond. When I truly started moving on is when she says she woke up and realized what she had with our family and how close she was to losing it for good. Our daughter was only 11 when we found out about her mother's affair. She didn't speak to her mother for over a year. Today their relationship is still very fragile. My daughter lost all respect for her mother. Now she's 14 and wanting to rebel. I lay down the law but whenever her mother tries it turns into a big blowup. Our DD will say who are you to tell me about right and wrong? If my W says I'm your mother then our DD will laugh and say did you think about that when you were laying with him (OM)? Then my wife cries and runs out of the room and I ground our daughter. Repairing their relationship is something that is still very dicey but we're committed to healing and growing. Thank you for asking.
Not much going on today. Feeling pretty depressed actually. But, I haven't contacted my wife. This will be 3 days in a row.
Whenever you get down then do something to shock your system. Heck, get up and start pumping out push-ups and crunches in a 3-set rotation. It sounds stupid but it'll generate endorphins and make you feel better. Plus, you'll get in great shape. Don't allow yourself to sit and mope.
Well...it's been since Sunday morning since I've had any contact with my W at all. 3 1/2 days. Of course no communication from her. Oh paranoia how I love thee. I am feeling compelled to want to send her a happy New year's message tonight, but maybe I'll just come here at midnight instead. I have a professional licensing exam in about 8 hours, so that's something. I'm kind of excited about it in a weird way. I'm really curious how it will be when the W comes to bring me the kids on the 2nd. Is she going to be really angry? Or is she just going to be her normal fake friendly and detached self? Will she still be wearing her wedding band? Does any of that even matter? I can't control any of it. One freakin' day at a time. Stay in the moment...this moment...right now. Get out of your head. I'm a decent guy. I'll be okay. Please, let me be okay.
Oh...and I think I realised I need to get a bigger place not just so there's more space for me to not get irritated with my kids...but, so that they can have their own place, own rooms, own space here with me when I have them. I need to make sure they have a good secure feeling about me being stable and safe and always
remaining their father, no matter what. So, that's something.
I know that your WW is still in the family home and you're not. I forgot to ask, are you financing her life right now? Financing her extra-marital activities? If so, I'd recommend stopping that. Don't be an enabler. Cake eaters love that.
No, she's paying for herself. She actually earns more money than me. She's a licensed civil engineer.
But also, I forgot to mention, since October 20th, I've officially lost 63lbs as of this morning. So, there's another thing.
Is that 63 lbs you needed to lose or are you not eating and wasting away?
Hey B, stop fretting over how your wife will act when you see her. They all swing between being fake nice, real nice, and really really nasty LOL. You just keep being calm, steadfast, pleasant, wonderful you! Keep "I'm sorry you feel like that" at the ready and smile and walk away if you need to!
Your exam is so late, and on New Years eve! Good luck on it! What profession are you getting licensed in?
Happy New Year B. Today is the first day of the rest of your life!
Hey All...been taking a little break from posting. RosaLinda the exams I'm taking are for getting my architectural license.
So...for those of you who haven't followed all the posts above, here's a little rundown of the current sitch. Last weekend I went into the house and found a letter written by my wife to OM. She claims it was only an EA that only happened during separation. But, I don't believe or trust her basically at all at this point. She's been out of town with the kids since Christmas day. She changed her facebook status to show no relationship and told me today that she hasn't been wearing her wedding ring this week.
I ended up breaking down last night after my exam. When I got back out and logged on to facebook there was a post of her and her sister out and she looked so good. So, I liked her post (along with 120 other people) and sent her a text telling her she looked really good in her picture (she never responded).
She called me today to tell me they probably weren't going to be getting back home from their trip until a day later than expected and that we would have to rearrange days with the kids. Basically, I lose a day now, and gain a day this week. Which, is fine (kinda, because she would probably have been rude about it to me).
Also, during the call she caught me off guard about my meeting with the priest earlier this week, and I tried to stay dark about information but I think I just ended up sounding rude.
So, then I messed up again. I called her back. And I pretty much pursued her on the phone. I asked her if she was still wayward, and she said yes, she's definitely still wayward. She expressed some amount of anger about me going in to the house, but really her tone in general was just frustration. She seems very upset about basically everything in her life right now. At which, I was kind of okay at validating her feelings. I don't know if she took my validations as serious, but she didn't get negative or anything either. She went on and on about work, and bills, and everyone she ran into giving her so much advice about her situation (she said she got the whole gamut of people saying she should work it out, she should get divorced, what about her kids, etc...). Again, I tried to validate as much as I could.
She was postulating about getting divorced and having to sell the house, and move back to Louisiana, and us having to get a separation agreement, and on and on, taking down the christmas lights, buying our daughter a dress, and on and on.
I expressed that I wanted to work things out between us. She said something about going backwards, and I said, no I don't mean going backwards, I mean going forwards, but doing it in a way where we can eventually find our way back together. She said it was a big turn around since last weekend, and a few other things, and I don't know, we talked for a little while longer.
I asked her if she would still be willing to meet once a week or so for an hour, just her and I, and talk. Maybe read some bible passages, and just discuss things. I don't remember exactly how she answered, it wasn't 'yes' exactly word for word, but it was a positive response (in a sense) with a, "But I'm going to need some time, not on Sunday cause we'll just be getting back, and maybe not next weekend either..." But, it sounded okay, kind of.
And that was about how we left it.
So, I need some pointers on moving forward into the next few weeks. Basically, I'm kind of torn. On the one hand, I feel like the closer we get to a formal feeling separation, the harder things will be for her and hopefully she would have that awakening. Like, last weekend I thought I should completely get all the rest of our bills separated, and move out ALL of my stuff from the house including whatever would basically be half of my stuff that we shared. But, maybe all that would do is drive her further away and have negative consequences.
If I don't go that route...then I need to discuss how to do the LRT and going dark again...because I'm kind of lost still.
Talking to myself here...but whatevs. WW just got home and back from her trip. She sent me a text saying I did myself a big disservice by breaking in to the house. She says she feels like I went through everything and feels very uncomfortable.
I just sent a reply saying, I understand. You must feel like I really violated your space.
I go tomorrow to pick up the kids, and I'm fully expecting her to pull me aside and give me an earful. But, we'll see. She may not.
Either way, I'm really looking forward to having my kids back for a couple of days! God, I've missed them.
Also, I just had a first. As I was thinking about the WW and how she is acting, I had some thoughts of gratitude. I'm grateful that the mother of my children is still alive. I'm grateful that I'm still alive and sober and I can still be a dad to my kids!
Anyway...good night.
Bfice,
I'm just now caught up on your sitch.
It took me two months to be able to detach enough to validate and tell my WW that it will be OK, whatever she does, and I'll be fine. It took 2 months of being on this BB, and reading Divorce Remedy, to finally believe the words I told my wife a couple mornings ago. And I haven't turned back.
There is hope to save the M. Yes, hope! But that hope must be packaged and slid on a shelf for now. Work on YOU. I have an addiction, just like you - read up on my sitch. I'm going to a hidden addiction men's group for 32 weeks starting this month. Excited to go! I need the support. 63 days now - no porn!
Everyone on this board kept saying TAKE ACTION, but I didn't know what they were talking about until my head stopped spinning from the BD. I have lost 25 lbs so far, and see losing another 25lbs. I have set up goals for 2016. I am telling my kids I love them every day, hugs, and playing with them.
Take action - set up goals. Prepare for the worst (divorce, no W), and hope for the best (complete reconciliation, and a better marriage than before!) But you can't have that unless you're taking ACTION on yourself. If you were a woman, what would you want to see? Not just an attractive man, but how you stand, where you go, what you wear, how you smell, what you watch TV, or heck, if you watch TV. I was a bit of a couch potato - now, the TV is off, unless the Packers are playing!
My WW is in a flat spin right now. Pastor has talked with her, and she's angry at everyone. So are my kids when I discipline them, but they later know it was for their good. I'm not disciplining my wife per se, but she knows what she's doing is wrong, and now knows I'm going to be walking away from her hot mess.
So...I came here to write about another thing that happened yesterday that was disappointing and hurtful...BUT...i just realized...coming here to post at all is me holding on and pursuing my WW...I have to let go for real...and it goes against everything I feel, everything inside of me screams no...but she is simply moving on, and why the heck would I want someone who doesn't want me? Don't worry I'm not going on any dates. But, I may be trying to post here less. This was just another thing I was doing to pursue my wife and I have to let go of her. Its just me and my kids now and thats okay.
coming here to post at all is me holding on and pursuing my WW
I may be trying to post here less. This was just another thing I was doing to pursue my wife and I have to let go of her.
To each their own. I find most people regret when they stop posting here, because then they start doing things that are against the DB principles. Being here helps hold people accountable for their actions.
But I wish you the best.
Hey,
Still post, just post about you and how your doing if you find you are posting too much about what your W does or doesn't do.
I just sent a reply saying, I understand. You must feel like I really violated your space.
Close, I think. But dont tell her HOW she feels. Tell her you
understand how she feels.
"I can see how you would feel violated by my actions."
vs.
"You must feel violated by my actions."
I go tomorrow to pick up the kids, and I'm fully expecting her to pull me aside and give me an earful. But, we'll see. She may not.
You know what they say about expectations...
So, I used to listen to this song and just listened to it again this morning, and umm...well...how ironic is about all I can say.
So...yeah...one of the comments even says 'codependency personified'
Trying really hard to emotionally detach from the WW. Found her profile on match.com Sunday. Says she is recently on the singles scene again...yada yada yada...
Trying really hard to emotionally detach from the WW.
Yes it is, very hard. So why make it harder?
Found her profile on match.com Sunday. Says she is recently on the singles scene again...yada yada yada...
What benefit could you find by being on that site?
Good morning fellow DB'ers. I'm still here, and still reading so I figured I'd give a little status update.
First and foremost for me, I got my exam results back this morning and I passed my professional licensing exam! Which feels amazing. Now, I still have 4 to go, but hey, I'm okay with that (really truly for the first time ever). I was speaking with a Divorce Care friend and realized that me passing all of these licensing exams is one of the biggest 180's I can possibly do, and not to mention that its great for me personally.
Anyway, so another little tidbit/lightbulb moment. I actually had the thought this morning that there is nothing wrong with my life except for my marriage. A couple of months ago I wouldn't have even been able to comprehend how such a notion is possible for someone, especially me, to even utter, much less mean. But it is true. I have a pretty good life. I have a lot of things to be grateful for. But yes, I've had one really crummy marriage.
So...I guess I'm really starting to do it. I think I'm successfully detaching. Do I love the woman I'm married too? Yes. Do I want to save our marriage and make it better than ever? Yes. Is that ever going to happen? I have no idea. I will be here if she ever decides she wants to, but until then I have a life to live.
I've decided, for now, I'm going to continue to wear my wedding ring even though I'm pretty sure she isn't wearing hers.
I've started to see, and feel, that you know what, its okay for me to be a single part-time dad. That I do truly love my children and that no matter what I want to be a huge part of their lives. (Recently I had been getting irritated when my children were with me, and I think it was because they were a glaring reminder of the lack of the WW.) But now, I just want to hug them and love them. I'm thinking of them in my actions. Regarding their happiness and contentment before my own, which, especially for how I've been living the past couple of months, is new.
Does this all hurt like a son of a gun? Yes. Yes it does.
But, I think I'm reaching a point where I am accepting life as it really is, on life's terms. I'm working very hard to develop my relationship with God. I have been a true spiritual farce for most of my life. I've always gone to church, moved through the motions, and said the corresponding words...but as soon as I was alone I couldn't wait to become this person that was devoid of morality. Surprise crummy marriage! But now...I realize I need God in my life, that I have to walk that walk, and accept and want that a path for me directed by God is far and away better than the paths that my logic and best reasoning have provided thus far in life.
Anyway...I don't know what all I am saying. I just don't really have too many people to share these things with, so here I am sharing with you all.
So, I'm doing no contact. The WW called last night around 8pm but I just didnt feel like answering. The kids were with me, and I had nothing to say, so I let it ring. She didn't leave a voicemail, no text after, no calling my apartment #, no email...so whatever it was couldn't have been urgent. Of course paranoia sets in about what it might be, but really it can all wait. I've got all of my urgent things taken care of, and I can deal with whatever it is that she needs or wants at some time later. If that later even happens.
The last two days I have woken up and before I get out of bed I thank God for letting me wake up and live through another day in His world, and that's new, but it feels right.
So, anyway...I'll be back around later.
Have a great day all.
Hey B, congratulations on passing your exam! Awesome! Glad you decided to keep wearing your wedding ring. It's such a personal decision, but sort of reveals your mindset to your wife and kids (and other women) that you still see yourself as married and are still "working on it," for the moment at least.
Anyway, so another little tidbit/lightbulb moment. I actually had the thought this morning that there is nothing wrong with my life except for my marriage. A couple of months ago I wouldn't have even been able to comprehend how such a notion is possible for someone, especially me, to even utter, much less mean. But it is true. I have a pretty good life. I have a lot of things to be grateful for. But yes, I've had one really crummy marriage.
So...I guess I'm really starting to do it. I think I'm successfully detaching. Do I love the woman I'm married too? Yes. Do I want to save our marriage and make it better than ever? Yes. Is that ever going to happen? I have no idea. I will be here if she ever decides she wants to, but until then I have a life to live.
You ARE starting to successfully detach, yea for you B. Don't worry if you experience multiple temporary re-attachments LOL. I too had a crummy marriage to a man whom I loved dearly. We had opposite love languages, and did not meet each other's needs (I do accept my half of the blame for that), but I really always thought he would come out of his crisis, and that with all the stuff I had learned over the past couple of years, I could "fix" us and we would have a wonderful marriage. It was not meant to be, but I am living my life and am happy with a new guy who appreciates me.
And you shall be too. Hopefully, with your wife. And if not, you'll be okay.
Anyway...I don't know what all I am saying. I just don't really have too many people to share these things with, so here I am sharing with you all.
Ramble away, my friend. We are all in this together; even those of us who are years past the bomb still have to deal with our exes and being single parents. You are doing great. Honestly, reading about your new attitude of gratitude and desire to have God in your life brought tears to my eyes and told me that your changes are real and that you
are going to make it with or without your wife. Hang in there!
Grats on your exam, good luck on the others in the future.
You can be your own best friend, or your worst enemy.
Hello DB land. Another post from this place I'm in...
So, I'm going to try to paint my version of this week real quick. Basically, I was doing no contact all week. My wife told me on Sunday she wasn't wearing her wedding ring anymore, and I saw her Match.com profile where she says she is back on the dating scene after a long break. (I also saw where she posted a picture of her that I took, at a famous historical site in Paris, where she blames her 'friend' for not including the whole famous site...bu anyway).
So, this week. I picked up and brought to school two of my kids every morning and afternoon. Our third child was off this week as well because of year-round school. I had the kids Sun and Mon night, as well as Wed - Sat night. So, I worked all week, and like have been doing all along since our separation and before, I brought the kids to school and picked them up.
On Monday and Thursday nights I brought my oldest daughter to swimming practice at 7:45 - 9pm. On wednesday, I took the two younger ones to violin practice, and then to piano practice for my middle daughter. (Wednesdays are always very busy, and that just happens to be one night a week my wife let me have every week.)
Also, I worked with my middle daughter on her science fair project, and though we didn't finish it, we did a lot of work. Oh and there was a basketball game Friday night, but I digress.
So...as far as communication with my wife...here's what happened. I never contacted her. She sent me one text early on in the week about a counseling session with my daughter (which oh yeah, there's another thing I did) I quickly sent her a 'thumbs up' text and that was my only response.
My wife called my cell phone once and I didn't answer on Wed night. She left no messages and no other forms of communication so I never called back.
Thursday she called my daughters cell phone to talk to me. It was a conversation like this:
W: How's it going?
Me: Fine:
W: How are the kids?
Me: They're good.
W: Anything I need to know about?
Me: Nope.
W: Okay. Are you doing okay?
Me: Yep.
W: Do we need to talk?
Me: Nope.
W: You sure?
Me: Yes.
W: Okay, well I may show up to the basketball game tomorrow but I probably won't sit next to you.
Me: Okay, thats fine, whatever you want, I don't care. Talk to you later.
W: Okay
...and I handed the phone back to my daughter.
(I know my last response wasn't very good, but I was irritated.)
Then I sent my W a text saying if she needs to contact me, she should do so directly and not through our children. To which she never responded.
Then, on Sat morning she called my cell again. I was with the kids in a store and didn't see/hear the ring and didn't answer, for real, and she left no message or any other communication so I never called back.
Now, also through the week she forwarded me several emails about the kids school and basketball games, etc. I say forwarded because thats literally what they are. Forwarded messages with zero input from her, no 'here', no 'thought you might need to know this...", no nothing, just a forwarded email. I printed them all out and used all the information but never responded to any of them.
Okay....going to start a second post now because I'm sure this is ridiculously long.
Okay...so today. Our oldest daughter spent the night at a friends house. I had the two younger kids. We went to church at 10:45 and after I brought to the wifes house.
I get there and see my wife in the garage with the door open but she doesn't say anything to me and I dont say anything to her. Helping carry the kids stuff up to the house door.
Then she moves towards me and starts talking at me. I can tell by her voice she is irritated. She wants to tell me that our youngest son has a doctor's appointment on tuesday and that she will working from home that day because of it but she would still like me to do all the dropping off and picking up.
(This week coming up is even more work than usual because its midterm week for the middle child and she gets off of school at noon 3 days this week.)
So, the W says it would be easier for her if I could still pick them up and drop them off on tuesday. I say, well it would be helpful to me if she could do it that day. She looks confused and flustered and unexpected, and then agrees...reluctantly.
She says, well I called you a couple of times this week, but you didn't answer. Is that how its going to be from now on? I said, well you didn't leave any messages, I didn't know I needed to call back.
She then says, okay, well...so, thats how its going to be. Do we need to get lawyers involved now?
I said, I don't know. I'm not doing anything different.
And then I think I said okay well I'll talk to you later and started to get in the car.
Then she says, you know, this is why we aren't married anymore (Making a hand gesture between us) because you've been like this for so long and are just an [censored].
I smiled. Got in the car and drove off.
And that was it.
So, to sum up. I did 95% of the work for the kids this week. But I'm the [censored].
Now...after leaving the house, I went to the church and sat in the prayer room and prayed quietly for five minutes asking for peace of mind. Instead of calling my wife and pleading or fighting.
Then I went and got some great mexican food for lunch.
At lunch, I realized I need to be a better person than she is. So, I responded with a 'Thanks.' to her forwarded email from earlier this morning. And going forward from here, I will respond to her emails, all of them, at my own pace, but I won't simply ignore them.
Though, I can't promise that I will call her back.
I also probably could/should have let her know that our oldest daughter is/was spending the night out Saturday night and would need arrangements to be picked up. (But she's 15 and usually makes those arrangements for herself anyways.) I did send my daughter a text and told her to be sure to talk to her mom about it, and she did.
While my kids were with me this week, I tried to remember to hug them and tell them I loved them every time I could. I tried to stay present in every moment that I had them with me so that I was being their Dad, and just a distant grown-up going through a crisis that was responsible for them.
We had fun. Last night my 11 yr old daughter painted my face with her makeup kit and made me look like a freaky clown and I made my very first instagram post lol.
Anyway...that was my week. I don't know if anyone will read this. Probably RosaLinda, and thank you Rosa for reading and listening to all of my stuff.
It feels so certain right now that there is simply no way for any of this to ever work out. But, I still had my wedding ring on today even though my wife had hers off and made sure to hold her hand up to her face to let me see.
Today's homily in mass was about 'Be Not Afraid' and learning to hear God's will. That's what I took from it, and that's how I plan on living this week. I'm going to forge into this week, and be not afraid.
Take care all.
Thank you in advance to anyone who reads all of this. Any and all comments are welcome!
I think you have done reasonable well nothing is perfect
I think setting a boundary for our wellbeing is appropriate
They chose to separate they need to see the consequences we are not their partner anymore
Great interactions and attitude. Love it very much. Calm, amused and grounded.
V
Great job this week B,
except.....quit looking at your wife's match.com profile! You are just hurting yourself, and must realize that 99% of the stuff she writes on there HAS to be lies, to justify herself, a married woman, being on there, fishing for dates.
I used to read all of my ex's emails. He belonged to the Russian version of Facebook, and wrote to dozens of Russian women over the years, telling them how he was this poor abused man whose B of a wife was cheating on him, but he was staying in the marriage for his kids (cleverly did not mention that the "kids" were in their 20s and 30s LOL), and that he had been so broken hearted and empty until he met
her, the newest conquest.
It hurt so much at the time, but I was sort of obsessed with reading them, and I justified it to myself that it was okay to read all his messages so I'd know what he was up to. I knew what he was up to, he was lining up EA and PA partners, and was just hurting myself reading his lies, and the women's answers. Had to quit cold turkey, but it helped my positive outlook a lot!
So, to sum up. I did 95% of the work for the kids this week. But I'm the [censored].
Thank God they have you. Just saying
So, did she bring your son to the doctor yesterday, or did you end up doing that too?
While my kids were with me this week, I tried to remember to hug them and tell them I loved them every time I could. I tried to stay present in every moment that I had them with me so that I was being their Dad, and just a distant grown-up going through a crisis that was responsible for them.
And don't think that they won't remember this, B. You are their rock, their fortress, their stability in a world turned upside down by their crazy mom. Hopefully your wife will appreciate you too, someday, and not just take you being such a good dad for granted. But even if she does not, they will.
I was sort of surprised whe,n after over seven years of craziness, I told my sons that I had filed for divorce, and they both told me that they were proud of me! Flabbergasted. So don't think your kids don't see what you are going thru.
Then she says, you know, this is why we aren't married anymore (Making a hand gesture between us) because you've been like this for so long and are just an [censored].
I smiled. Got in the car and drove off.
And that was it.
Good job! Bet THAT made her head spin in surprise
Today's homily in mass was about 'Be Not Afraid' and learning to hear God's will. That's what I took from it, and that's how I plan on living this week. I'm going to forge into this week, and be not afraid.
Nothing to fear when you are trusting the Lord, right? No one can know what your wife will decide to do, but we all know the ending for you - BFice will end up a great man, beloved by his children, and in good physical and emotional shape for a new relationship, whether it's with your wife or someone else. Who will have passed ALL his exams! So forge on my friend. You are doing great, truly a different man from the man you were last October!
quit looking at your wife's match.com profile!
it helped my positive outlook a lot!
I know...I need to remember that its only hurting me. Its hard though. I have stopped looking at facebook and her email. Though, I realized too from looking at match.com that she has to have another email account because she isn't getting any notifications at all from match.com and well...yeah. So, just in general she has been way more secretive and hidden about everything she is doing than I truly ever expected her to be capable of.
So, did she bring your son to the doctor yesterday, or did you end up doing that too?
Ha. Well, she did bring him to the doctor. However, she has totally checked out on being a parent because she let all of the kids stay home from school rather than being bothered to bring them and pick them up. Unreal, and completely hypocritical.
they both told me that they were proud of me! Flabbergasted
That must have been a very nice feeling RosaLinda! I'm sure you weren't doing it for those reasons, and that's where I'm trying to be also. I want to be there for my kids because I love them and I want them to be happy, not because I'm seeking some sort of notion of winning this separation/divorce/whatever-it-is.
Bet THAT made her head spin in surprise
It felt really good and it hurt all at the same time. Its so bizarre how codependent I am on her. I know I didn't deserve to be talked to the way she talked to me. Yet she did. And yet I walked away and all this week I keep trying to find justification in my head on how I don't deserve to be talked to like that.
---Your last paragraph I can't quote and comment on because I have to protect my E identity and not cry online, lol. Though, thank you RosaLinda, so much. Its a very unusual feeling to have a complete stranger say and mean something more than a woman I've been married to for almost 16 years. So, thank you again, and I hope life is treating you well!
Hey all.
So, looking for some input here. I'm dropping the kids off at the W's this afternoon. But my daughter has a basketball game tonight. I had forgotten about it, as it wasn't on my schedule of nights. I haven't been invited or reminded by the W, but I asked my daughter if she wanted me to go and she said yes.
Should I go? If I do go, should I sit near my wife?
I mean, on the one hand, I want to go to support my daughter. However, I do not want to pursue or contact my W in any form. Not sure what my boundary here should be.
I'm worried obviously about how I will act/react, and I'm honestly scared to go because its going to hurt so much to see the W.
I don't know. I'd like to hear some of your opinions. Been in no contact pretty consistent for about 3 weeks now. There is basically zero communication between me and the W, only the barest of minimum about kids routine.
If you think I should go, should I notify the W beforehand? And if I go should I sit near her? (I'm scared of being seen as the one to act first in a certain way...but that may be the wrong way of looking at it.)
Let me turn this around and ask you the questions. Why would ask your D if she wanted you to go to her game, when you know perfectly well a kid is going to say yes?
Why would your W need to "remind" you? Do you have a memory problem and depend upon her reminders? Why would you think she might need to "invite" you? Is this not a game open to the public?
I mean, on the one hand, I want to go to support my daughter. However, I do not want to pursue or contact my W in any form. Not sure what my boundary here should be.
What does this have to do with boundaries?
If you think I should go, should I notify the W beforehand?
Why would you do that? Do you plan to go through life calling her in advance so the two of you don't run into each other? That's not being detached.
And if I go should I sit near her? (I'm scared of being seen as the one to act first in a certain way...but that may be the wrong way of looking at it.)
If you are separated, why would you feel like you have to sit anywhere near her just b/c she happens to be at the same thing?
I think you are making this all about your W, instead of your D. However, I understand how awkward you may feel the first time. If you use to go to the games, then go watch your D. If it's just a way for you to see your W, then you should not have brought up you going to your D. Time to evaluate your true intentions.
Fair points Sandi, and thank you for responding.
So, I think I asked my daughter because I was wondering if she would be okay if I didn't go or not. Last Friday my wife didn't show up to her game when I had the kids. (W didn't give any reason one way or the other to me) So, I'm pretty sure it wasn't asking my D so I had an excuse to be next/near to the W.
That being said, I am worried about how I should handle it. I mean you are right, I have the right to be there. I just don't want my kids to view me as the one who is pulling away from their parental role. Maybe just being a single dad at her game is enough, and I should simply be happy to have the opportunity to do that.
This whole thing is still very new...the separation yes, but moreso my ability to think/feel/act/be detached from my wife. I really don't want to go there to see or be near my W and I don't want her thinking that's why I am there. However, I do want to be supportive to my daughter. Yet, I don't want to be supportive to my daughter in some way that is creating additional stress/strain for her or my other kids.
Does that make sense?
If you are separated, why would you feel like you have to sit anywhere near her just b/c she happens to be at the same thing?
Well, this is how my WW started off handling things when my son was doing football in october/november. She wanted us to sit next to each other and basically hide the fact that we were separated.
Looking back now I realize her reasons for secrecy were far different than mine. I thought the secrecy was because we could potentially salvage our M...whereas she was most likely not wanting anyone to think things are different to hide her affair(s).
So...anyway...I recognize that I'm having issue with the notion of how to correctly handle things, and thats why I'm asking here.
(Just to give you an example of where my head is...WW sent me a text about an hour ago saying she needed to talk to me this weekend about the kids and schedules next week. I waited about an hour and sent a message saying only, "An email works fine". So, I mean, I'm having as little direct contact with her as I can possibly have.)
Okay...so she responds to my text:
WW: At some point this weekend, I need to talk to you about next week and the kids.
Me: An email is fine.
WW: No its not. I would like feedback.
WW: Are you afraid to talk to me?
WW: There are all kid dentist apps at 7am next Tuesday for starters.
(She told me earlier this week that she needed to go out to one of her jobsites for work Monday through Wednesday this week upcoming. She has to travel sometimes for work, but I'm sure its also an opportunity for her to have her affairs. I agreed to take the kids on Monday and Tuesday night and add them to my days this week. So Mon thru Sat rather than Wed thru Sat, just fyi..)
Of course though, she didn't mention anything about dentist appointments...
Hey all.
So, looking for some input here. I'm dropping the kids off at the W's this afternoon. But my daughter has a basketball game tonight. I had forgotten about it, as it wasn't on my schedule of nights. I haven't been invited or reminded by the W, but I asked my daughter if she wanted me to go and she said yes.
Should I go? If I do go, should I sit near my wife?
I mean, on the one hand, I want to go to support my daughter. However, I do not want to pursue or contact my W in any form. Not sure what my boundary here should be.
I'm worried obviously about how I will act/react, and I'm honestly scared to go because its going to hurt so much to see the W.
I don't know. I'd like to hear some of your opinions. Been in no contact pretty consistent for about 3 weeks now. There is basically zero communication between me and the W, only the barest of minimum about kids routine.
If you think I should go, should I notify the W beforehand? And if I go should I sit near her? (I'm scared of being seen as the one to act first in a certain way...but that may be the wrong way of looking at it.)
Your daughter wants you there so there's your answer. Don't ever let your wife's stupidity interfere with your role as a father. All you need to know is that your daughter wants you there. Once there sit wherever the hell you want to sit regardless of what your wife thinks. You've put her opinion first for too long and she takes it for granted. Do what you want.
Don't ever let your wife's stupidity interfere with your role as a father. All you need to know is that your daughter wants you there. Once there sit wherever the hell you want to sit regardless of what your wife thinks. You've put her opinion first for too long and she takes it for granted. Do what you want.
Yeah...it just makes so much sense hearing it said like this. Its just, well, I'm not good at acting that way. I think its pretty telling that the second response my WW has is...are you afraid to talk to me...ugh.
Don't ever let your wife's stupidity interfere with your role as a father. All you need to know is that your daughter wants you there. Once there sit wherever the hell you want to sit regardless of what your wife thinks. You've put her opinion first for too long and she takes it for granted. Do what you want.
Yeah...it just makes so much sense hearing it said like this. Its just, well, I'm not good at acting that way. I think its pretty telling that the second response my WW has is...are you afraid to talk to me...ugh.
"No, I'm not afraid to talk to you. God how I would LOVE to talk to you. The real you. The you I hope and pray still exists in there somewhere. The you that I fell in love with. Not the you that is capable of hurting me worse than I would have ever believed. This you I'm not afraid to talk to but I have very little desire to talk to."
Try something like that.
I just hate this so much. All of it.
Texts:
Me: Okay, well I've got stuff going on this weekend, so it'd be best to discuss whatever it is this evening early. I need to drop D(11) and S(9) off at the house around 3 or 3:30. You can call me then.
WW: Great! I hope you have something fun planned! Don't have my planner. Will you be around at 6?
So...I was trying to set some boundaries for myself by not letting her dictate that sometime over the course of the whole weekend she could give me a call when she wanted. Thereby ultimately ruining my weekend as I anticipate her calling. I lied about having plans, well kind of, I mean I do have some plans, but mainly I just wanted to get whatever call she feels we need to have over as soon as possible because I don't want it hanging over my head.
Then she responds with the whole "Great! I hope you have something fun planned!" thing...its just...man...she's so gone...its hurts so much to have this woman just act like I am some person, I dont know what...she just feels like she can treat me however the hell she pleases and it simply doesn't matter. But, I guess I should only be concerned with myself...let her comments roll off and away and know that I'm taking care of myself.
My plans for the weekend:
Friday: Go to daughters basketball game and after attend an AA meeting (the AA meetings really help me find focus and calm)
Saturday: Go to breakfast with a friend and then after go to a men's meeting with him. Then clean up the apartment a bit, and study for my next exam. Probably play some video games. Then a night meeting where I will pick up my 90 sobriety chip! Yay for me.
Sunday: Go to another early morning men's meeting then attend mass. Grocery store for dinner supplies for the kids coming over this week and more studying and maybe some catch-up work.
Anyway...later all. Hope you all have a good weekend.
Okay...so she responds to my text:
WW: At some point this weekend, I need to talk to you about next week and the kids.
Me: An email is fine.
WW: No its not. I would like feedback.
WW: Are you afraid to talk to me?
WW: There are all kid dentist apps at 7am next Tuesday for
You: "I have no reason to be afraid to talk to you". "Just thought an email would work". "I suggest we share a google calendar (or some other type) for just kids scheduling".
I mean seriously, she isn't interested in your feedback! She is going to TELL you what, where, and when the kids have something, period. She is more interested in knowing what you have been doing, and she wants to still have control in your life.
Do not live as though you are her dirty little secret she has stuck in a one room apartment. She has it made, doesn't she? Living in the home, with you supporting her and being there for the kids whenever she has other plans...........and she gets to continue her A.
You are enabling her to lie and cover up her A. She is asking you to lie for her, by going along with the sharade publicly and to your kids/family.
Okay...well this is all completely unexpected. I feel like I'm in kindergarten and have literally zero idea of what the right thing to do is.
Me: Around 6 is fine. And no I'm not afraid to talk to you. God how I would LOVE to talk to you. The real you. The you I hope and pray still exists in there somewhere. The you that I fell in love with. Not this you that is capable of hurting me worse than I ever would have believed possible. But no, I'm not afraid to talk to you, I just have very little desire to talk to this you.
Me: I will set up a Google calendar that we can share access to for scheduling of all kids activities.
WW: I understand. I must seem like the devil right now. I pray I will change.
WW: I don't know how to use a Google calendar, but maybe the kids can teach me.
So...anyway...I don't believe a darn thing she is saying, and I feel like an idiot for saying that about loving her, though it is true...I really don't want to have to talk to her at 6. But I am going to the game tonight either way and I am not going to sit next to her.
Thank you Sandi and TxHubby for helping me out here. I know this is ridiculous...I'm 41 years old and can't even have a text conversation with my W...but...it is what it is I guess.
Okay...well this is all completely unexpected. I feel like I'm in kindergarten and have literally zero idea of what the right thing to do is.
Me: Around 6 is fine. And no I'm not afraid to talk to you. God how I would LOVE to talk to you. The real you. The you I hope and pray still exists in there somewhere. The you that I fell in love with. Not this you that is capable of hurting me worse than I ever would have believed possible. But no, I'm not afraid to talk to you, I just have very little desire to talk to this you.
Me: I will set up a Google calendar that we can share access to for scheduling of all kids activities.
WW: I understand. I must seem like the devil right now. I pray I will change.
WW: I don't know how to use a Google calendar, but maybe the kids can teach me.
So...anyway...I don't believe a darn thing she is saying, and I feel like an idiot for saying that about loving her, though it is true...I really don't want to have to talk to her at 6. But I am going to the game tonight either way and I am not going to sit next to her.
Thank you Sandi and TxHubby for helping me out here. I know this is ridiculous...I'm 41 years old and can't even have a text conversation with my W...but...it is what it is I guess.
Don't feel stupid. You would know how to text your W but this isn't her. She's "possessed" right now for lack of a better term. I really hope she has at least one person trying to talk sense into her. Someone who can sink in the message that her behavior might ruin the best part of her life. Nobody has ever blown up their life through a MLC and said they were happier afterward. Her current path leads to a haunting lifelong regret for her and it frustrates you because you can't get that through to her. They really are a mindf*ck when they go through this. I had been married to my W for 26 years when she went nuts. I had no idea who she was.
If it makes you feel better, you're stronger right now than I was at the same point in the process when I was going through it. I got to a point where I could no longer live with her waffling. It became ultimatum time. You stop all this bullsh!t right now this very minute or we're done and when I walk, I walk for good. No looking back because I'll know I did everything I could to save this and you couldn't be reached.
You may get to that point. At that point she may choose a different life. You have to know that is a possibility. Accepting that gives you strength. You're going to be fine either way. You really are. You'd love for her to be part of your life and grow old together but you don't have to have that. You can move on, mourn the loss, get out there and find love again. It happens.
You'll wake up one morning and it'll click that you've reached your limit of limbo and are truly done. That could be the actual final end or your relationship or the moment that truly saves it. For me it saved it but I know I would have been fine either way. How long you guys keep doing this dance is completely up to you. You can't control her stupid behavior but you can control how long you'll put up with it.
Just have a minute, how about this. YOU get there first and force your wife to make the decision LOL let us know how it goes!
Haha, thanks RosaLinda! You know, see...its crazy because I was thinking I should do the exact opposite...show up late and make sure that I can control exactly where I sit. Especially now that I sent her that soppy text earlier...
Hope you have a great weekend RosaLinda! I'll be sure and post updates.
Well...apparently she got what she wanted...just to make freakin angry as she can possibly make me. I'm shaking right now.
She had nothing to discuss. All she wanted was to get her two days back from where she's losing them for going out of town for work.
Instead it ends up turning into a freakin yelling match and her threatening to take me to court and ruin me and have her mom get on the stand and call me a drug addict, and that I'm an alcoholic, I dont deserve 50% custody and on and on....omg....I really just can't stand this woman.
You need to have a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) for those occasions!!! In case she follows thru with those threats or claims abuse etc!! Even if not admissible in your state it can be used to show people that she was lying etc.
So sorry, hearing that nasty vicious spew must have been so upsetting B. How did you handle it?
Please check the recording laws in your state; many permit recording a conversation with consent of only one party (which would be you in this case). But if you live in a "one-party consent" law state, secretly recording a conversation is a crime.
She baited you. Don't allow yourself to be baited again. With her threats I'd also advise you to record all your interactions with her. Use your cell phone (plenty of free VAR apps) or buy a VAR. Don't take threats to lie about you in court lightly. Protecting yourself has to take precedence over your R.
B and TX Hubby, please believe me. As an attorney I am warning you that if you live in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania or Washington, secretly recording a conversation is a crime. What state do you live in?
God how I would LOVE to talk to you. The real you. The you I hope and pray still exists in there somewhere. The you that I fell in love with. Not this you that is capable of hurting me worse than I ever would have believed possible. But no, I'm not afraid to talk to you, I just have very little desire to talk to this you.
Oh noooooo.
Why would you say something like that ^?
Well...apparently she got what she wanted...just to make freakin angry as she can possibly make me. I'm shaking right now.
She had nothing to discuss. All she wanted was to get her two days back from where she's losing them for going out of town for work
.
Told you she didn't want to meet face to face just to discuss what the kids had to do next week. Next time, tell her she can say what she has to say in an email. Or better yet, she can tell your lawyer.
Don't expect a WW to be fair or to cooperate. It is all about her and her selfishness. Get a schedule she has to adhere and don't play the shifting game.
Oh, okay, I had not read Max's post. Wasn't seeing it in the context he said it.
Hi everyone. I'm back. Pretty crummy weekend. I'm going to just write out some things, I guess journaling.
For starters, I'm in North Carolina. It appears (after a very quick google search) to be one of those states that legally allows the recording of some conversations at least where there is consent given by only 1 person. But, I'm not at that step just yet, though I fully recognize the potential benefit. When I say I'm not at that step yet, I could very well be by this afternoon, depending on how I feel. Any and all feedback on this post will potentially help me make a fully informed decision.
That being said, back to last week. So earlier in the week (possibly the weekend prior) the WW asked me to add to my upcoming 4 day schedule (Wed-Sat) of keeping the kids, the additional days of Mon and Tues because she was going to be out of town for work. I agreed. She asked if I needed to exchange days because the additional days would 'be a hassle for me' and I declined.
Then Friday's event unfolded. She says she wants to discuss the schedule. Not saying she wants to re-negotiate or anything like that. But clearly once she is on the phone her sole intention for calling is to get me to give up Friday and Saturday after adding the Monday and Tuesday. I was very reluctant because my understanding from a lawyer is that the custody/child support situation is based (in NC) on how many nights the kids stay with each parent. Our arrangement currently is (every 2 weeks: me 6 days, her 8 days). So, I'm always wanting to try to get additional nights to get closer to that 50% margin.
She was very combative and difficult and lots of yelling ensued and I ended up hanging up the phone. The following day she sends text stating that I needed to let her know and that a non-response is an affirmative response. She also finally revealed her true intentions. She has plans with her cousin this weekend coming up and wants the kids with her then so they can visit. It has to be this weekend coming up because her cousin is leaving to move to Japan very soon.
Ultimately, I relented and said its fine, via text only. But I told her I didn't appreciate her lack of honesty regarding her intentions, to which she of course replied "I was 100% honest."
But, I'm not at that step just yet, though I fully recognize the potential benefit. When I say I'm not at that step yet, I could very well be by this afternoon, depending on how I feel.
Didnt read it all yet; stopped here for now.
Dont do ANYTHING based on how you feel. Do everything based on whether it gets you towards your goal.
LOGIC. Not
EMOTION.
Fast forward to this morning. So, she told me she was going to drop the kids off to me this morning around 8-8:30am via text on Saturday. This morning I get a call from our D(15) at about 8am saying they are on the way and that there is a letter I need to recieve from my WW, and that there are two other girls in our car from a sleepover and that my WW won't be coming up to the apt. I said fine, see you in a bit. Then texted my WW to not use our children as a conduit for communication about their parents divorce. Here's a fun string of texts:
Me: Our children are not supposed to be the conduit for communication in their parents divorce.
WW: I was driving. I told you about this last week, remember? Check S(9)'s coat for the envelope.
Me: You are missing the point of protecting your children from yourself, but whatever.
WW: What on earth are you talking about?
Me: Exactly.
WW: You're the one who won't even speak to me. You're going crazy.
WW: You need to protect the kids from yourself.
WW: I'm doing fine.
Me: Why would I talk to you? You've had or are having at least one affair, you're actively seeking other men to date, you've told me you don't love me, you requested space for at least 6 additional months, not to mention you're treatment towards me personally and your inability to be honest about your intentions and actions.
WW: Harsh, and I'm not having an affair and NEVER cheated on you.
Me: How is that harsh? It is simply factual. And an affair is by definition cheating.
So...lots of love. I know, I'm doing a terrible job at detaching (meaning leaving myself unaffected by her actions) but I'm just really starting to flat out get angry with her.
She dropped off our 3 children this morning to their father's apartment while having 2 11 year old friends of our D(11) in the car! I asked my daughter about it after an hour or so. "Did that bother you getting dropped off here with them in the car?" Her, "Well...yeah, kinda it did. I thought they were going to get dropped off first."
Then, my oldest daughter...oh yeah, Dad, I need to get a composition notebook and 100 notecards by tomorrow for school. (This is immediately following being with my WW for 3 days) Me: "Oh, okay. Mommy didn't get those for you?" D(15) "She told me to tell you to get them. She's told me to talk to you about everything, even my follow up appointment for my retainer she said you should schedule it, and that you should buy my homecoming dance ticket."
I mean...my wife is just freakin checking out being a parent, and that makes me angry too.
So, I don't know where I am right now. I mean, at this point, if she were to even begin to show interest in our marriage again I don't even know how I would feel about that. She is hurting me. She is hurting our children. And she is doing it all feeling 100% completely justified and without any visible remorse.
We talk about children ya know, and how smart they are, and what they pick up on. Well, I've been talking to my kids about me getting a bigger place, potentially a 3 bedroom townhouse. My D(11) asked me about it again this morning, asked if I had visited any new places. (I let them come with me to visit one the other day because I wanted them to feel comfortable with what I choose and don't want to just be like oh hey this is where you'll be calling home now when you are with me.) So, I told her no I hadn't seen any new ones in the past few days. (This weekend I texted my WW to let me know how long she would remain in NC because I needed to be able to make decisions about signing a new lease. Her response was vague and ineffectual except for when she asked if I wanted to move to LA with D(15) so our daughter could finish high school where the WW went!) So, I asked out loud to all the kids if there had been any talk from mom about moving or anything like that. D(15) responds, "Yeah, I asked her about it last night, and said its been 4 months, isn't this supposed to be ending now? But mom just said she didn't know." At which point D(11) "Its not ending, its forever".
Man, that just crushed me. They know. They can see it. These poor kids, they didn't ask for this. I know I've been a bad husband, been selfish, been a drunk, I know I have a part in this failed marriage. And it makes me so sad that my kids have to bear this for the rest of their lives.
But...well...one day at a time right. Be not afraid.
I'm going to love my kids as much as I can, and build me into a man that is going to be more amazing than I've ever been. The future is bright for B! And through my rising, my children will be lifted.
That's the plan. Regardless of that woman does.
I feel somewhat better now. There was a lot that happened that I've left out, but most of it was just more nitpicky, complaining and lying from my WW. But, its good to get it out of my head and let you all take it from me.
I need to do some actual work now, but I'll be back later.
Thanks all.
Dont do ANYTHING based on how you feel. Do everything based on whether it gets you towards your goal. LOGIC. Not EMOTION
Understood, and that was/is the intent of posting about it. To begin to flush out the idea. I didn't intend to make it sound like it was an emotionally driven course of action. Its not. At this point, I do feel as though I need to be taking action to protect myself, my children, and any and all future interactions and/or financial concerns I may have.
I created a google calendar for myself where I am going to start documenting all events that transpire. Communications with WW, neglectful, hurtful actions she takes, just all of it, so at the very least I can see it laid out. And if necessary, I'll have it as evidence. But for now, it would mainly just be for the sake of documentation.
Have you read 'No More Mr Nice Guy' yet? I seen the covert contracts from your last thread, you will easily recognize them after reading the book and it will allow you to dig into why you do them. I would also suggest 'The Solo Partner' to stop you from reacting to her and getting so defensive. She knows how to push your buttons and as long as you keep letting her she will to prove the point D is whats best. I'm not sure you see how much you contribute to these negative interactions. You can, on your own, stop them from getting to the points they do regardless of what she does. All this arguing and fighting can be stopped by 1 person. My W was the bitch most of our M and I was the [censored] also, we might be separated now and likely D'ed at some point in the future, but we interact better now than we have in years. It may never lead to a M being rebuilt between us but there are much worse outcomes to this.
In those texts all you had to do was ask her not to communicate through the kids and leave it at that. Instead, you attacked her and guilt ed her by using the effects on the kids, threw the D in her face, threw the A in her face, accused her of cheating. You want her to see those things but when they come from you, even if they are true, it just gets filed under "[censored] H using lies to attack me" in her brain. She wont see these things if you throw them in her face because you feel hurt. She mentioned previously a reason for the D as you being an [censored] and you smiled smiled and drove away. You might not like to hear this, but theirs truth to what shes saying, you likely do come across as the [censored]. It doesn't matter if shes coming across as the bitch, you're still in the wrong also. You cant control her but you can control yourself.
You can keep acting like you did through out your M while supporting her decision to do this, or you can change and become the man only a fool would leave.
I get what shes doing is painful and hurts, it [censored] shes ripping your family apart and you have a right to be angry. But that doesn't give you a right to let your emotions control how you act. That is exactly what shes doing after-all, isn't it?
The angry hurt guy can be just as hard to control as the needy hurt guy, but you can do it.
Thanks Fogg. I know you are right. I will definitely check out both of those books.
I never even considered my 'smile and drive away' as being a rude thing...I was so hurt by her, that I was instinctively defending myself and trying to not be mean in return the way she was to me.
I really just don't have the tools emotionally, or how to communicate or whatever. I know that. Thats why I post these long messages. I'm trying to give enough of myself out there for others to judge my actions and interactions to help me learn. (Not to save my marriage, but to help me be a better me.)
Anyway, thank you for taking time to comment honestly. It means a lot.
OK...I combined your three posts into one...
Hi everyone. I'm back. Pretty crummy weekend. I'm going to just write out some things, I guess journaling.
For starters, I'm in North Carolina. It appears (after a very quick google search) to be one of those states that legally allows the recording of some conversations at least where there is consent given by only 1 person. But, I'm not at that step just yet, though I fully recognize the potential benefit. When I say I'm not at that step yet, I could very well be by this afternoon, depending on how I feel. Any and all feedback on this post will potentially help me make a fully informed decision.
See my comments above. If you're heated, do nothing. If you're sad, do nothing. Act on logic.
That being said, back to last week. So earlier in the week (possibly the weekend prior) the WW asked me to add to my upcoming 4 day schedule (Wed-Sat) of keeping the kids, the additional days of Mon and Tues because she was going to be out of town for work. I agreed. She asked if I needed to exchange days because the additional days would 'be a hassle for me' and I declined.
Then Friday's event unfolded. She says she wants to discuss the schedule. Not saying she wants to re-negotiate or anything like that. But clearly once she is on the phone her sole intention for calling is to get me to give up Friday and Saturday after adding the Monday and Tuesday.
This seems like mind reading. But if youre worried about scheduling issues, why not document them all in emails? Thats what Ive started doing.
I was very reluctant because my understanding from a lawyer is that the custody/child support situation is based (in NC) on how many nights the kids stay with each parent. Our arrangement currently is (every 2 weeks: me 6 days, her 8 days). So, I'm always wanting to try to get additional nights to get closer to that 50% margin.
I dont really know think thats a great way to think about it. Yes, it's based on the overnights, so I expect you are paying to her some due to the disparity. But the number is fixed. I doubt you are going to take her to court to change it if they spend 160 nights with you instead of 156...you'll probably pay more in lawyer fees than youd get back.
She was very combative and difficult and lots of yelling ensued and I ended up hanging up the phone.
So what did you learn? How will you change this interaction next time?
Also, you are labeling her in this way. How do you think she felt you were acting? And then hanging up on her...I presume that it wasnt in a calm way...
The following day she sends text stating that I needed to let her know and that a non-response is an affirmative response. She also finally revealed her true intentions. She has plans with her cousin this weekend coming up and wants the kids with her then so they can visit. It has to be this weekend coming up because her cousin is leaving to move to Japan very soon.
Yeah, usually theres some ulterior motive. But in this case, what is best for the kids?
Ultimately, I relented and said its fine, via text only. But I told her I didn't appreciate her lack of honesty regarding her intentions, to which she of course replied "I was 100% honest."
Blech. Why say this? She doesnt OWE you anything. What real difference does it make what she is doing with the kids on her time with them? And she did tell you what she was going to do with them. So what exactly did you want her to do? Say it straight out? Why does it matter to you?
Fast forward to this morning. So, she told me she was going to drop the kids off to me this morning around 8-8:30am via text on Saturday. This morning I get a call from our D(15) at about 8am saying they are on the way and that there is a letter I need to recieve from my WW, and that there are two other girls in our car from a sleepover and that my WW won't be coming up to the apt. I said fine, see you in a bit. Then texted my WW to not use our children as a conduit for communication about their parents divorce.
OK. What? That whatever this letter is couldnt be sent with the kids? She has to hand deliver it to you? Your D is 15....it doesnt seem that unreasonable for her to call you to say those things.
Here's a fun string of texts:
Me: Our children are not supposed to be the conduit for communication in their parents divorce.
WW: I was driving. I told you about this last week, remember? Check S(9)'s coat for the envelope.
Me: You are missing the point of protecting your children from yourself, but whatever.
Huh? I can guess what you mean....But what are you saying this to her for?
WW: What on earth are you talking about?
Me: Exactly.
Hmmmmm. This just seems rude. I also dont know what youre really talking about.
WW: You're the one who won't even speak to me. You're going crazy.
WW: You need to protect the kids from yourself.
WW: I'm doing fine.
Me: Why would I talk to you? You've had or are having at least one affair, you're actively seeking other men to date, you've told me you don't love me, you requested space for at least 6 additional months, not to mention you're treatment towards me personally and your inability to be honest about your intentions and actions.
You HAVE to talk to her, because you are both parents of the kids. You dont have to be FRIENDS with her. But if theres something about the kids, you cant just ignore her. This is so arbitrarily angry and judgmental that I cant see what your 'angle' here is. It sounds like you were so angry about the day before that you are taking it out on her here.
WW: Harsh, and I'm not having an affair and NEVER cheated on you.
Me: How is that harsh? It is simply factual. And an affair is by definition cheating.
Your definition and her definition of these words are different. Why are you bothering trying to convince her of yours? Why argue on the technicality of the words 'affair' and 'cheat'?
Honestly, I side with her in this case. You started this conversation about, what, exactly? Your D didnt say anything about the divorce....
I completely echo all that Fogg wrote.
So...lots of love. I know, I'm doing a terrible job at detaching (meaning leaving myself unaffected by her actions) but I'm just really starting to flat out get angry with her.
Yes, I think that is clear.
She dropped off our 3 children this morning to their father's apartment while having 2 11 year old friends of our D(11) in the car! I asked my daughter about it after an hour or so. "Did that bother you getting dropped off here with them in the car?" Her, "Well...yeah, kinda it did. I thought they were going to get dropped off first."
Yes. I can understand it's a little weird. But 11 year olds these days have likely been around divorce. I wouldnt necessarily have gone out of my way to drop the other kids off first if I didnt have to.
And by you ASKING her if it bothers her, it brings it to her mind that it MIGHT or SHOULD bother her. It's kind of like leading the witness...by asking about it, it gives her the idea that you think it was weird. So, who knows. Next time, see if you can let her articulate her feelings.
Then, my oldest daughter...oh yeah, Dad, I need to get a composition notebook and 100 notecards by tomorrow for school. (This is immediately following being with my WW for 3 days) Me: "Oh, okay. Mommy didn't get those for you?" D(15) "She told me to tell you to get them. She's told me to talk to you about everything, even my follow up appointment for my retainer she said you should schedule it, and that you should buy my homecoming dance ticket."
I mean...my wife is just freakin checking out being a parent, and that makes me angry too.
Agree that this is not great. How can you be the best dad possible? Instead of getting angry at WW, why not use it to spend extra time with D15?
So, I don't know where I am right now. I mean, at this point, if she were to even begin to show interest in our marriage again I don't even know how I would feel about that. She is hurting me. She is hurting our children. And she is doing it all feeling 100% completely justified and without any visible remorse.
Hopefully, you can see that a lot of this pain is self-inflicted. Why dont you work on worrying less about her and more about you? THEN see 'where you are'.
We talk about children ya know, and how smart they are, and what they pick up on. Well, I've been talking to my kids about me getting a bigger place, potentially a 3 bedroom townhouse. My D(11) asked me about it again this morning, asked if I had visited any new places. (I let them come with me to visit one the other day because I wanted them to feel comfortable with what I choose and don't want to just be like oh hey this is where you'll be calling home now when you are with me.) So, I told her no I hadn't seen any new ones in the past few days. (This weekend I texted my WW to let me know how long she would remain in NC because I needed to be able to make decisions about signing a new lease. Her response was vague and ineffectual
Im not sure exactly. How was your question? Did it leave openings for vagueness? Shouldnt the schedule have already been basically fixed? How can you become more independent?
except for when she asked if I wanted to move to LA with D(15) so our daughter could finish high school where the WW went!) So, I asked out loud to all the kids if there had been any talk from mom about moving or anything like that. D(15) responds, "Yeah, I asked her about it last night, and said its been 4 months, isn't this supposed to be ending now? But mom just said she didn't know." At which point D(11) "Its not ending, its forever".
What was that about not using the kids as a conduit for divorce information?
Man, that just crushed me. They know. They can see it. These poor kids, they didn't ask for this. I know I've been a bad husband, been selfish, been a drunk, I know I have a part in this failed marriage. And it makes me so sad that my kids have to bear this for the rest of their lives.
But...well...one day at a time right. Be not afraid.
I'm going to love my kids as much as I can, and build me into a man that is going to be more amazing than I've ever been. The future is bright for B! And through my rising, my children will be lifted.
Alright. So the next step is....HOW?
That's the plan. Regardless of that woman does.
I feel somewhat better now. There was a lot that happened that I've left out, but most of it was just more nitpicky, complaining and lying from my WW. But, its good to get it out of my head and let you all take it from me.
I need to do some actual work now, but I'll be back later.
Thanks all.
Hopefully that all helps. Keep on keepin on, B.
Hey Azzork...yeah...I ended up sending her a text after reading your post (I guess two days ago now).
Me: I've been very angry with you recently and have responded poorly and without control of my emotions, so I apologize.
WW: I understand. I'm sorry things are so tough
And that was it. Back to no contact between her and I. Which, I know is wrong to think, but I hate this whole no contact thing. More specifically, I hate that she is so okay with not contacting me at all. She hasn't once, since this separation, called to see how I'm doing, to talk about our marriage, or anything like that.
I mean, dumb question, but me continuing no contact is my only course of action right? GAL, NC, and prayer.
To everyone following my sitch, if anyone is, I know I ended up handling things poorly this weekend, but man I just...I'm just so hurt and angry with her. I guess that's a change and perhaps I should consider it progress from being completely depressed all the time.
I don't know. I got those books in Fogg. No more Mr Nice Guy, and I ended up getting the 'Passion Trap' instead of the one you mentioned. I don't know. I'll read them. Hopefully learn something about myself, or at least develop some self control.
Zen Warrior is my ideal objective right?
Anyway...don't have long. Hope everyone is doing well. I'll be back in touch soon.
Later.
More specifically, I hate that she is so okay with not contacting me at all. She hasn't once, since this separation, called to see how I'm doing, to talk about our marriage, or anything like that.
I hate it also at times but you do have to realize shes checked out of this M and is done, so why would she want to "talk about our marriage". In her mind it may be over and there's nothing else to discuss. As for asking how your doing, again, that's one of your needs. She doesn't need to see how your doing and there's various reasons for that. Mostly shes consumed in her own feelings so you cant expect her to consider yours.
I understand how hurt you are and the anger. I've had my fair share of it also the last year. BD for me was 13 months ago and W has showed very little if any interest in how this has effected me or the kids. D5 cries almost daily for "mommy", sometimes W sees it and gets emotional but never acknowledges it was her that did it. Maybe she knows on some level.
Once did she said sorry to me after I told her how hurt I was, early on, at what she was doing with OM. Just a "I'm sorry" and one other time she did tell me she "loved me with all of her heart and didn't regret any of the last 10 years together" but followed us with she just didn't love me now. I've not seen her cry once over his entire thing, but I've heard of her crying to others. Granted it might not be for me, it could be for what shes done to the family, or it could just be that OM didn't work out. Its something I may never know and it was difficult accepting the idea I may never see remorse over what shes done to our family. Even if she did feel it, she may never show it.
I had to swallow that hard pill just recently and you will also. If you're waiting on an apology and for her to start working on things you will be disappointed. Furthermore, even if she did say sorry to you, would that really magically end the pain shes caused? Your pain and anger, even if she caused it, will need to be worked on and healed by you. She cant and wont just fix whats been done.
I hate seeing her act happy also, as if the world is going on like nothing happened. Its like she dropped a match at a gas station and walked away with a huge smile on her face while the entire station blew up behind her, and she didn't even notice or look back to see.
We don't know what there really thinking so we cant speculate. She might not have cared because what was in front of her was more important to her survival. Or maybe she cant face what shes done so she ignores it. Either way, nothing we can do about it.
So yes, you have to let go. Theres a lot of confusion to what that means but you just leave her to live her life and you live yours. She does have a right to decide how it turns out even if others don't agree with her choices.
Evening all.
I ended up sending her a text the day Azzork replied. I had a bad weekend with the WW last weekend. Told her I was very angry with her and that I was responding to her poorly and letting my emotions control my actions and I apologize. She responded with something like, I understand and I'm sorry things are so hard.
There was no communication for several days. A text or two on Friday and I drove the kids over to her in the snow.
What [censored] for me is that she is DB'ing me. She can look at and talk to me and seemingly be completely unaffected. She is making zero contact AT ALL unless its to get the kids or tell me I need to give her some money for something.
I mean, I should just be jumping for joy right? Sent out into the world as a single man. The thing is, I can't overstate how alone I am. I know I still have my kids. But I don't have anyone else in the world that I can relate to really on a deeply personal level. I mean I've made what seems to be a pretty good friend from AA, and I like him, but something about seems off. He invited me over for dinner last night with his two kids and it was actually really nice. Yesterday was his 1 year anniversary of his wife walking out on him.
I don't know. I'm okay, I guess. It's just this is so hard. I have to truly turn to God here, and just accept that is His will, and then accept whatever new version of my life will be revealed to me in the future, rather than the life that I had been anticipating for decades.
I don't know. I'm depressed. But I'm not crying. I've been studying. Got another exam coming up in not too long.
Its just this whole no contact thing. I know that its my only choice, to take care of me and build me back, but the fact that she simply is fine with letting everything that was ours go is just so hurtful. I know technically nothing is final yet, and won't be legally for about 8 1/2 months...but it just feels so final.
Oh well. Be not afraid.
B
i am on the NC thing as well. [censored]. My feelings are the same as yours earlier, how W hasn't once asked anything or seem to care. I liked Foggs answers. we really dont know what is going on. She could be completely gone or she could also be a wreck. No way to know.
I do think the NC is your path right now. But i think you need to make sure you are working on when there is contact. Zzz hits it often about do or say nothing. It makes al the difference in not making things worse at least.
I am very reactive and fight to make sure I am this way. It is why went NC. If i am focusing on not contacting then i can't really mess up.
Hell DB Forum. Been kinda quiet lately. Things have been really tough for me the past couple of weeks. Ever since the WW has come back from her trip, I'm just not coping with myself that well. I've been pretty depressed and spent about 5 days just ignoring basically everyone and anything. I'm starting to force myself out of my funk, and have started going to the library and am sitting here currently, just so I'm out and around other people in the real world.
Had a quick interaction with the WW this morning. She was turning in a registration form for the kids school for next year, and asked me to meet her in the parking lot after I dropped off the kids this morning. So, I did. I got all dressed up, was looking great, and was planning on being positive (for myself) and was going to work hard on not letting her affect me. I pulled up and she got out with the paperwork in hand and walked up to my car in such a way that it made me feel like getting out of my car was not what she wanted, so I just rolled the window down. She handed me the sheet and pointed where to sign without saying anything like hello or good morning. I glanced at the form quickly just to make sure it was not some trick, and then signed it. She said she didn't say that we were separated because she didn't want people to know. Basically, I sat there and didn't say a word. I handed her the forms and she gave me this big fake smile (like intentionally fake, almost smirkish) and I think I kinda made some movement with my lips and she said bye and walked away. That was it.
I just don't know what I'm supposed to be doing here. I don't have interactions that are that cold and emotionless with complete strangers on the street. I know that God has his own plans and ideas for what is going to happen, and I suppose that its possible that this marriage could be saved...but I just don't see it.
What is it that would make someone be in love with or long for someone that they don't even like?
Why do I give this woman so much power over me?
She hasn't given me any love...possibly ever. Does that change? What I mean is, if she gets with her new man is she going to change into a person who gives love freely? Does that happen? Am I just the type of person who made her incapable of giving love? I mean, I know that I have and have had major issues with codependency that have blurred a lot of the ideas of who and what I thought I was. But, in general, I'm a good guy, people seem to like me. I feel like I make a great companion. I deserve to be happy and be loved...whether or not that ever happens, I don't know...but for now I'll settle for simply not feeling this...I don't know what it is. Is this love? I don't think so. Do I love her? I don't think so. Do I love her but I'm just so hurt by her lack of love for me that anger covers up any ability for me to love her? Maybe. All I do know is that something inside me hurts and it hurts really, really bad.
I know its not healthy to think and act like this, but I'm not pursuing her. I have no contact with her anymore. Practically zero. And when I do have contact I end up in a worse mood than I was in beforehand. She's like a storm cloud that's made just for me.
Yay.
This is the point where I realize that I thought I was going to be able to say something poignant, but realize that its just sad and depressing.
You know, coming to this site depresses the hell out of me. But, its one of the only places I can go and feel not completely out of place.
A couple of mornings ago I had breakfast with a guy and he was telling me how envious he was of my situation. It totally threw me off guard. I want to optimistic...but the future just looks so bleak.
Oh well...that's enough for now.
If you're waiting on an apology and for her to start working on things you will be disappointed.
Fogg, I'm glad you said this ^^. When I was relatively new on the board, it seem there were several tough LBH'S at the time. When I told them (practically word for word your own statement) not to expect an apology from a W (still in her waywardness) any time soon......I thought they would organize a lynch mob and come after me. (jk). It was not what they wanted to hear, and I was pretty much on my own.
At the time the WW is at the height of her rebellion, it is very doubtful she'll sincerely apologize for what she's doing. She may say the words, but she won't feel it in her heart. How many people do you know who are acting out and at the same time apologize for it? Their credibility is seriously doubted when they don't stop hurting you, right? Well, that's how it is with her.
I will tell you something that may sound more crazy than you can digest. Except for some type of revenge affair, I don't believe most WW's are doing what they do just to hurt the H. In other words, hurting him is not her objective in her wayward behavior. In her mindset, she is justified and deserves to do whatever it takes to be happy. If anyone gets hurt......then that's an unfortunate event as she progresses onward. She is focused on what she
wants, not on how she may be hurting anyone. That is why some WW's can drop the bomb without crying or expressing concern. She is done and has no desire to save the M. Of course, some WW's will vary in this, but the bottom line is they will do what they want to do, regardless who gets hurt........as long as it's not them. That's why I talk so much about consequences. It's about all that is able to get through the fog.
So, I called my wife last night. I've been in this terrible funk for the past few weeks, isolating myself, and just generally not doing well. I've been going backwards in that I have started trying to e-track her again many times a day. Well, today I went to match.com to see if she was online, and I couldn't find her account. Did a username search and her account doesn't come up. Nothing on the age and location criteria either. So, then I started panicking (well panic isn't the right word) but I thought perhaps she found her one new guy and didn't need the site anymore. I know that's dumb, but anyway. So, I called her. I was wanting to see if I could gauge where she was in all of this.
She answered and we had a pretty bizarre and ultimately I know useless conversation. And yes, I know that by calling her I was pursuing her, but I didn't care. We didn't really fight though I was certainly expressing a lot of my anger at her. I told her how hurt I am by everything she has done and she said she was sorry. I didn't really accept her apology. I expressed to her all of the things that she had done to me and that I was completely justified in feeling hurt by her actions. Then she started saying some things like, 'How do we fix it?' 'How do we move forward from here?' I told her you just have to make it happen. I said when you wanted another man you went out and made sure that happened, lied to your husband, made adjustments for work, etc...and you went and found him. You have to do the same thing here. She replied, 'Point taken'
I don't know. We kind of left it where I had basically expressed all of my anger, pain, and frustration with her. I told her that I cannot go after her, cannot pursue her, that I have to stay where I am with myself emotionally and if she comes to find me then we'll see what happens from there.
She said things like she didn't think I would talk to her. And that she knew I wouldn't want her back and this and that. I told her that I do love her, I never wanted any of this to happen and that I do want her to love me. But that I can't guarantee anything about whats going to happen in the future between us.
She ultimately told me thank you for calling. And she wanted to know if she called me to talk if I would talk to her. I said yes. I said I'm not going to be waiting around to here from her, but yes. She said what if you don't answer. I said then you keep calling, then you text, then you email, or hey you come knock on my door I'm only 10 minutes away. If you want it to happen you will make it happen.
And that was basically it.
So...I feel better after our phone conversation. The question is why? I know that the conversation is meaningless. I called her. She still hasn't taken a single action to try to communicate with me on her own. I know that it is only her actions that I can trust. So, I feel like maybe I feel better because I was able to get a lot of things off of my chest. I was able to express to her, relatively calmly, exactly how I have been feeling and feel as though she kind of listened.
I don't know. So, for now I go back to my routine of no contact unless it is absolutely necessary for the taking care of the kids. I'll try to have no expectations from her. I don't know if she will ever call or not. But, I said a lot, and feel like I've let most everything that I have inside on the table.
The ball is in her court. I have a life to live, whatever that life ends up being I still don't know. But, I just wanted to share what happened and let all of you tell me how I did, I guess.
Actually, I'm more interested in learning about what to do IF something does happen. How should I handle a phone call wanting to talk? How do I handle a text message asking to talk? Etc...
Obviously I know that it may never happen. And I'm guessing that I need to work on making sure my anger doesn't get in the way. To this point, all of the 32 steps and validation and all of that just really hasn't been relevant or necessary. I guess, I need to go back and read something.
Anyway...later all.
Oh yeah, and one other thing. Just a follow up. So, I've made a google calendar and I'm going in and filling out all of the days and times of everything that has happened, and will continue to happen. Ultimately this is just for me, and well...as a record...just in case. But, also, yesterday when I went to drop the kids off, I had my phone set to use an audio recording app. I recorded the interaction of me walking up to the house. Now, in this case, the WW decided to stay out on the back porch, so there was no interaction from her, but one thing was interesting about the recording was that, since I knew that it was going...my attitude was different...I wasn't playacting or anything like that, but I felt calmer...it was weird. Makes me wonder if ultimately that could be some kind of mental trick...pretend that everything I do is being recorded to keep myself acting right. Anyway....
Sorry for not checking in recently B. Sorry that you have been in a funk, having a couple of rough weeks; this stuff is SO hard.
As difficult as it is for someone who loves his spouse as you do to understand, I think that Sandi and Fogg are right. Your wife is not doing what she is doing to hurt you, or to hurt your kids. You are sort of collateral damage. She might regret your pain a bit, but the most important thing in the world to her right now is her own happiness. Not you, not your kids; all she can see is that she is unhappy and wants to feel better, and is going to try different stuff out to see if it helps her. Some wayward spouses have affairs, some spend money like crazy, some move far away from their friends and family. I know it probably doesn't help to be told that she is not intentionally hurting you, but it's true.
You sound so depressed. I'm glad your phone conversation made you feel a little better, and that you were able to get all that off your chest, but am equally glad that you realize that her words are meaningless unless and until her actions back them up. And you do not see that happening yet.
But to answer your question, if she DOES call, let her talk. Listen. Validate her feelings. Keep calm, don't get angry. That's interesting what you said about feeling differently when you had your phone on record - do that if it helps you to feel calmer and more in control.
The ball is in her court. I have a life to live, whatever that life ends up being I still don't know.
None of us know where we will end up, B. I DBed for five frigging years, CERTAIN that my ex would wake up and realize that he had made a terrible mistake, but it did not happen, and I would not take him back now for a kazillion dollars. But the lessons I learned from my counselors and on this forum helped me so much. I learned that I am the only one who can make me happy, and I am truly happy. I learned that I am a codependent enabler, and am working on that (although it's hard to break the habit with my kids). I learned that love is a choice that we make every day. I learned that I am a woman of worth, who is worthy of kindness, honesty and loyalty. All that took me a long time, hopefully you will learn all these life lessons sooner than it took me.
But we all go thru this and come thru this in our own time. Me and my ex. You and your wife. I hope to God that she wakes up and realizes what is good and right and honorable, and what is best for you and for your family. Following this process is your best chance for it to happen. And if it does, I will be so thrilled for you. And if it doesn't, well, you will be just fine.
Hello RosaLinda, its great to see your words again! I've missed being able to communicate with someone. My next exam was scheduled for this coming Friday (the 12th) but today I just re-scheduled it for March 1st because I haven't been really been focused on studying the past few weeks the way I should...at all.
What has been going on? Well...on the good news front I had set up a meeting with a new IC. She specializes in codependency and addiction. I had a 1 hour session with her this past Friday and started a 6 week group session the following morning on Saturday. She was actually really awesome, and I feel that talking with her is going to help provide some very valuable information for me to process about myself and help me dig deeper and focus on learning about who I am, what drives my actions, and how I can best utilize that moving forward.
That being said, my wife called me yesterday. I started off answering the phone thinking maybe she is calling about wanting to talk about 'us'. Lol. Wrong.
This was easily our worst interaction yet. I wish I had a recorder so that I could have captured everything that she was saying to me.
She started off wanting me to agree to letting her take the kids on a two week trip to New Orleans this summer, but that I should volunteer to give up my rights to the days that would be mine during that time frame. I said no. I told her she can take them on the trip absolutely, but that we should rearrange the days so that me and the kids aren't missing out on any of our time. Well, she didn't like that and completely blew up on me. She then went and told our oldest daughter that I had cancelled their trip, and that because of me doing so, my daughter would then be missing out on a concert that she had been planning to attend. Yep. So, now my daughter is crying in her room because of my wife, yet my wife is on the phone telling me that its all my fault. Amazing.
It got worse from there, with her just insulting me repeatedly by calling me all sorts of names...slacker, loser, etc. Her telling me that I should have to take a breathalyzer every time I come over to pick up the kids. And that because I am being 'difficult' and not getting along and being 'nice' that things were going to get 'harder' now. Again she told me that she will be seeking 100% custody and that I don't deserve to be able to have any custody. Sweet lady.
She said she was having her mom come back up and that they were going to be re-arranging some furniture and giving the spare bedroom to my daughter (11) who has been sharing a room with her brother (9). Then she let me know that she would be charging me $200 per month since our separation for a storage fee for keeping what's left of my 'stuff' there at the house.
I replied that if she does that, then I should charge her the going rate for 'before care' and 'after care' on her days of having the kids because I drop them off and pick them up from school everyday. Oh man...you should have heard her response. She got real quiet, and low voice...the anger just seething through the phone..."I...WILL...NEVER...GIVE...YOU...A...SINGLE...PENNY" and then just went into a tirade.
So, it went really well. On the positive side. 1.) I didn't spin out of control during this, I didn't lose my cool and have the rest of my day ruined. I was actually pretty calm. I did raise my voice a few times, but towards the end I actually found myself smiling at the sheer absurdity. 2.) And then I guess two is really more of a 1a...apparently I am detaching from her. Because I was able to remain pretty calm in the face of such a barrage. I didn't lose my cool, and just kept talking when necessary and letting her know that all I was doing was standing up and self-advocating for my kids to keep their father in their lives.
Yeah. So, that was my day yesterday.
I hope you're doing well RosaLinda. It was nice to see your responses and I will come back at some point and reply to some of the specific things you mentioned.
Gotta run, but I'll try to be back sooner rather than later.
So...basically, it feels like every change I've been making about myself, my wife is responding to in a negative way. Saying that me praying and 'being religious' is so fake. That passing an exam is great but I should have done it 20 years ago. Calling my apartment 'dumpy' even though its one of the nicest places in our area. She says that me advocating for myself and my kids and wanting my equal share of custody and time with the children is me being 'selfish'.
I mean, in general it feels like she is divorce busting me in reverse. She truly has alien brain and its getting progressively more intense. She has re-written the entire history of me...and everything I have ever done is evidence of my villainous behavior. She even is starting to claim that I'm not a good father...which was the only thing that I was ever actually good at, great at in fact.
I mean...tomorrow is 4 months. Next month, on the 11th...it will be our 5 month date of separation as well our 16th wedding anniversary. Yay.
Its fair to say, and to think, that if she wanted our relationship she would be making it happen, right? I am detaching more and more with every day...but this past month, and in particular with some changes that I'm anticipating based on what she has said...(me having to move everything out of the house)...I'm anticipating that an even greater divide is coming, and that I will ultimately be getting even more detached. And this part of me just feels like its wrong. Like...somehow...I should be fighting tooth and nail to protect and nourish...what?...what would I even be protecting? There's nothing there for me anymore, right. I mean...if she wants it, if she wants to, she will let me know and make it start to happen. And I have to simply leave the ball sitting there on her side of the court until she shows up to play.
Anyway...doing nothing, even it is the right thing, feels like its not. And even more so because it doesn't seem to be doing anything to help. Not that me pursuing her was doing any good either.
I went to go pick up the kids for school this morning and I noticed my son (9) was acting upset. I asked him what was wrong, and he didn't really have words. My oldest daughter (15) said that he had been very upset about the situation last night and was crying and slept in bed with my wife. This really broke my heart because he has seemed mostly unaffected by everything thus far, and normally he is so perky and happy and full of life. But this morning he was so down and sad...it just was awful to see. I tried to console him, telling him that I'm sorry, and that none of this is his fault, and that we are struggling through it together, and that I wish I could make it all go back to the way it was. Then he told me, 'Mommy said that everything will be okay in the future'.
And bam...the same thing she tells me. I've been thinking about this...and, it makes me angry. At this point, its not even that I'm hurt, or that she is hurting me. I'm upset for my kids. Her son (is arguably and often noticeably her favorite child) is now coming to her crying, upset because of a situation that she has created, and she looks at him and consoles him by basically saying...deal with it kid.
What kind of person, what kind of mother, does that? I don't know. I don't know what else she should have said to him, but it just seems so cold to me.
Anyway...no one really seems to have much to say or add to my posts anymore, and I guess that's because there is nothing to say or add. I'm sure that I'm screwing up this whole DB process...but I just don't see how my actions could be considered anything but positive by any normal person of the past 4 months.
Have a great day everyone, and happy valentine's day to those who want to celebrate...and for everyone else like me, I hope that little cherub slips and pokes his butt with one of those arrows.
B-out.
I have nothing else to do right now...so...I'm going to do this:
Sunday:
Me: I was actually foolishly hoping that after my phone call to you last Sunday things still had a chance of working out.
WW: Not anymore. Because now you've made me despise you. Congratulations. If you would have just let me keep S(9) on Saturday night.
Me: Right. That's what did it. I know enough now that is complete BS.
WW: I told D(15) her concert is off because you won't allow them to go to New Orleans. She is very upset.
Me: Loving mother of the year.
WW: Since you've ruined our plans of going, and I tried to make it work, you will be responsible if she goes or not. You'll have to buy the tickets. The concert comes here in June too. It's on you.
Me: Uhh...no. That's not how it works, and I didn't say they couldn't go, you decided that's what I said. I said I wanted my nights.
WW: Will you be in New Orleans to get your nights? If you say no, then you've ruined the trip.
Me: Again, you are the one setting ultimatums and being inflexible.
WW: No, you're being unflexible, not letting me have S(9). I will make no further action trying to bring the kids to New Orleans. But, you will not be allowed to take them if you want to go...I want my nights.
Me: Okay. But that's your decision and completely separate from anything I've said.
WW: No. It's yours.
Me: The nights can be re-arranged...you are just unwilling.
WW: Can I have them in New Orleans? Oh! Good. Can we re-arrange tonight and let me have S(9) all night Saturday? I'm very willing to re-arrange.
Me: Lol
WW: I'm looking for an answer. Ok. So I take it you won't let me bring the kids to New Orleans. YOU take the fallout and responsibilities of getting D(15) to this concert. I was willing, but shut down.
WW: I'm not moving to New Orleans anytime soon, by the way.
Me: Because you're probably sleeping with somebody else already.
WW: Nope. I left you because of you. This exchange right here says everything about the kind OF person you are...SELFISH! You would rather keep the kids inn your small little apartment then let them go and have fun inn New Orleans for a week with my parents. That's selfish. The kids have no other relatives.
Me: All I've said is I want my even split with the kids...you are making it into me not allowing them to go to New Orleans.
WW: And you're trying to keep them from their only relatives they have - that's selfish!!! You aren't, are you? F*** New Orleans for the summer! If you go, I won't let u take them. I NEED MY nights.
Me: I really don't even know what you are talking about...you're not making any sense.
WW: I figured you couldn't keep up.
Me: One day maybe you'll be able to see that you can't discuss anything without slinging insults.
WW: Its okay. This is where the plan stands as of right now: you have said you will not let the kids go to New Orleans without getting your nights. So you are responsible for the concert that D(15) will miss in New Orleans. I will not be taking the kids to New Orleans over the summer and you will not be taking them to New Orleans over the summer.
Me: Not the truth.
WW: What is the truth? Will you let me take them without getting your days? Yes or no.
Me: No, the kids need time with their father.
WW: Then what I stated above is the truth. You're now in charge of D(15) and the concert tickets.
Me: Not the truth. You are manipulating and twisting things to get what you want without consideration of the kids or their father. Typical.
WW: Bu*ls*it. Can they go?
Me: Of course. But the kids deserve their equal share of time with their father.
WW: Without me owing you days?
Me: See above. I've been consistent.
WW: Is this your way of getting out of paying for D(15)'s concert now?? I bet it is, Ha! Cheap *ss. You trying to look like the victim huh? You're the one that won't let the kids go to their grandparents for the summer. You did it last year, what's changed? You can better dad now? What a joke. And you're turning all religious, that's a fake joke too.
Me: You are really cracking.
WW: D(15) is sobbing in her room right now about not being able to go to NOLA and the concert. I told her to take it up with you. Note that you said you would not let them go without having your nights, so it is your fault.
***At this point I sent a text to my D(15):
Me: Don't listen to what WW is saying D(15).
D(15): Okay, she says we won't go to New Orleans.
Me: I know. And...you may not...but that isn't because of me.
D(15): Okay.
***Then a couple of last texts between WW and I:
Me: Go back and re-read these messages. Starting with mine. You are so full of anger. You want out and away from your marriage and family at all costs.
WW: No, I love my kids, above all else. I want them 100%. If we go to court, that's what I'll be fighting for.
Me: I just can't believe who you have become. I don't even know who you are anymore. I actually thought you were considering how to 'work it out' last Sunday...boy was I wrong.
And that was the end. After she dropped the kids off and I took them to watch the Super Bowl at some friends house.
The next morning (I was angry and pursuing all at once):
Me: For better or for worse, in sickness and in health...till death do us part. Guess, I'm finding out who you really are...and you aren't who I thought you were all these years. I don't know why I'm sending this text. I'm still in disbelief that this is how this ends. Your responses yesterday all but admit you've slept with another man...what difference does it make...it makes every difference. I may not have been who you wanted, but I never left, I never quit, I never went to another woman...I still haven't, and won't for a long time...I know none of this matters and you simply don't care. Its just so incredibly disappointing that this is how you've chosen to be. You can say what you need, but the truth is, this is all your creation. You gave up on us, went to another man, and now simply want me to be subservient to your wishes so that you can move on to another other man. I love you WW. And through everything, I never wanted anyone else. All I ever wanted was for you to give me your love. Anyway...
Me: I know that you won't respond. I also know you cannot be honest about this, ever, to me, to yourself, to friends, family, co-workers...I'm sure you've had to even lie to the other men, and I doubt that your even honest with your sister. It hurts like hell, to be left at all, but the way you've done this...you couldn't have been more hurtful if you tried. Your fake concern, fake counseling arrivals, fake everything...with a deep current of hate, disdain, and resentment flowing freely...and I knew it...I just foolishly hoped I was wrong. I wasn't.
***5 hours later***
WW: Don't take my silence as confirmation of anything you just said. I haven't slept with other men. I'm not lying to everyone and I didn't and am not leaving my precious children. My attempts weren't fake. I'm just tired of having to repeat my stance of being faithful. Pretty soon I won't respond to that accusation anymore.
Me: There have been no attempts from you...other that to create a false perception that you were 'trying'...and that was never done for my benefit. I don't say any of that based on your words. I say all of that based on the evidence I've seen, and the actions you've taken, and more importantly the actions you haven't taken. Not to mention the lies, the sneaking, the emotional breakdowns, just the whole series of events...it plays out so obvious...even though you think you've been so clever. I just thought that like me, you would remain committed to the end...good or bad.
Me: And understand, that I don't have a false fairy tale notion of where our marriage was...but...I still feel that if we had wanted there was nothing so wrong that it couldn't be made new or better than it ever was. That is where we truly differ. You decided you wanted out. You gave up on us. And to justify it in your head you are fabricating your version of events, rewriting our past, and demeaning me at every opportunity. I've done nothing, except try to reconcile, grow, recover, and become a better person. Nothing I have done, has warranted the visceral responses I get from you. You simply have to have me as the villain, because you are unwilling to face the reality of your actions.
Me: Do you realize that even yesterday when you called, I had hoped that it was because you wanted to talk about 'us'...?
***5 hours later***
WW: If only you would have been nice and let S(9) spend the night with me freely. Sunday would have gone much differently.
Me: Believe me, I wish nothing more than to be able to believe that was true...or rather, that there was/is any series of actions and/or words that could create a path back to 'us'. But, the reality is, nothing I do or say matters as long as you don't want me or 'us' anymore.
Me: And therefore...the only logical course of action for me, is take care of myself and any amount of interaction I can have with my children.
Me: But you won't call, you won't write, you won't stop by and visit, you won't invite me to coffee...I won't hear from you at all except a forwarded email and a text about kids. And that is my reality.
***The next message was the following day at around noon***
WW: I will be home today, so please drop the kids off after school.
Me: Ok
I'll explain about the S(9) thing because that came up a lot in the texts.
She called me Sunday supposedly to discuss some things. Started off talking about joint filing taxes. Fine, no big deal.
Then she went to my plans for this coming weekend. I have the kids. D(15) has a party to go to from 5-11pm. And D(11) has a father-daughter dance. If I do both...which I was...then I needed a place for S(9) to go. Well, he and his sister are each in class with a brother and sister that our family friends of ours. So the dad and I planned to have my S(9) go over to their house and hang out with his friend, while we all go to the dance together...two girls and two dads.
So...my wife says...you know, any separation agreement would state that the parent gets the first right to babysit.
And I reluctantly agree, I was irritated that was sticking her nose in my plans for the weekend, but I agreed. Then I said, so I'll be by after the dance to pick up S(9).
That's when she lost it. I really didn't know she meant to keep him overnight. She said 'babysit' and to me that means temporary. I don't know. I didn't say it to make her angry, but angry she got.
Anyway...so that's that story.
Bfice - what is your goal?
Are you fed up and want to end your marriage? Or are you trying to work on it? Im confused.
So this is the last one. I woke up this morning still feeling very sad about this whole situation and still felt like pursuing:
***7:30 am***
Me: Your silence is deafening. Again, a complete lack of response. Tomorrow is officially 4 months, fyi.
***8 hours later***
WW: Every time I say something you come back at me with insults, accusations, and meanness. You can keep S(9) on Saturday. Forget I asked. I'll take him Sunday at noon at my allotted time.
***Wait, what???*** ***You berated me for an entire afternoon because of this and now you're just letting it go?***
WW: Keep in mind that S(9) was crying a lot last night. He's tired of switching. He doesn't prefer to stay at your place that much since he has no one to play with, no toys, no computer.
WW: He needed to sleep with me. He needs a therapist.
Me: From your first message just now, should or can I infer that at some point you have wanted to talk to me about us and I have prevented it?
Me: All of the kids need a therapist. I need and have two.
Me: When I talk about silence, or lack of communication, I am referring to conversations related to the possibility of us reconciling our marriage. I don't recall you starting or responding to any messages, calls or emails about that subject.
***20 minutes later***
Me: And now you'll go quiet again...
***At this point I think I realized what I have been doing wasn't divorce busting and tried to start doing that***
Me: You are right though, I have, and am, full of a lot of anger because I am very hurt by all of this. The accusations and insults you refer to are (I'm assuming, because we don't talk) are based on my best piecing together and trying to understand and figure out what is going on, and what, if anything, I can do about it. I don't mean to insult you when I talk about what has happened, but I don't know ANYTHING about what's going with you, and from where I am, it seems as though you prefer it that way.
Me: I mean...if I acted logically based strictly on your actions and words...I probably would never speak to you again. But, seemingly, I can't easily let go of the fact that I have loved you. I'm trying to break free, and tell myself that its okay, she doesn't love me anymore, she's done all of these things, she's said all of these things, our marriage was lonely and full of isolation...just let go.
Me: People tell me that if you really wanted to be in a relationship with me, that I would know it and wouldn't have to ask. They tell me to move on, I'm doing awesome, I'll be better off. And I nod, and agree...but...even still, all I ever wanted was for you to make me feel loved.
Me: I didn't and still don't want a divorce, or to be separated. I didn't and still don't want our children to have to experience this. I didn't and still don't want anyone else. I have and still do love you. I regret everything I've done to drive you from me. I regret everything I've done to be an ineffective leader and earner. I regret everything I've done that makes you believe that I don't love you. I regret so many things. But mostly...and this started before the separation...I just miss you.
Me: Life will go on. I know that now. I'll be okay, and one day I may even be happy. If God will's it, I may even end up better off somehow. But, please know, that this is not the road I would have taken. You must truly believe life without me is going to be better for you in order to put all of us through this. I guess I hope you are right.
Me: I'll stop now...
***5 hours later***
Me: So nothing there deserves even the smallest of a response?
***20 minutes later***
WW: Yes, a lot does. But where do I start? I feel so disconnected. I feel horrible for any pain you have. I wish I could love you like you need and deserve. I don't know if I can and I don't have the strength right now to try.
WW: I live day by day. I miss my kids. I wish things were like they used to be. But we can't go back now. It'll be too hard.
WW: Don't blame this on other men. This is about you and I, and no other men.
WW: Can you have S(9) call me when you get a chance please?
Me: Well...thank you for responding. I can certainly relate to living day by day. The advice I most commonly receive is to do nothing...so that I don't do something I will later regret.
WW: I seem to follow the same rule.
Me: The part I have trouble understanding is not having the strength to try.
WW: I don't understand either.
Me: I'm sorry that you are lost in that place.
Me: I think I might be tall enough so that you can see the light from my halo to guide you out.
WW: Hahaha! You ARE super holy now.
Me: Angel emoji
Me: That was serious symbolism hidden within a joke and laced with self-confidence, by the way.
WW: Thanks for letting me talk with S(9).
Me: Anytime.
Me: Keep in mind that no matter what, we each have to rebuild what's left of our lives moving forward. Apart or together...each is a choice that carries pros and cons. If you ever get the strength to take that first step, you know where I am.
WW: I do. Thank you.
Bfice - what is your goal?
Are you fed up and want to end your marriage? Or are you trying to work on it? Im confused.
Great question. I don't know. I don't think I have any chance of saving my marriage I guess. It hurts so much, and there is simply never any communication from my wife at all about us.
I'm trying to detach...but frankly...I don't want to. I think I am getting better...I guess. I don't know. I'm posting all of this so that hopefully someone out there smarter than me can tell me what is going on.
I'm lost. I feel hopeless. And...I just don't ever get the sense from her that there is any way this ever works out.
Good grief! Give the woman a chance to miss you, Bfice!
You panic and then blow her phone up, not good.
My advice: print out Sandi's 37 rules. Laminate them. Duct tape them to your forehead.
Stop the I love you's, I miss you's, If you change your mind you know where to find me's!
You have given away ALL your power. Why would she have any concern about coming back?! You aren't going anywhere!
Dude, limbo is a horrible place to be. And you are inviting it!
Stop texting her! Keep texts short and sweet and ONLY about your kids! NO RELATIONSHIP TALK!
I realize you feel hopeless.
Here's the deal:
This is going to take longer than you want it to.
There's no way around it.
The ONLY way your W comes back is if you SHOW consistent changes. Texting her is not SHOWING her.
You show her your changes during the small interactions you have with her (exhanging your kids/dropping them off etc).
You want to be cool and collect. Confident and easy going. Fake it if you have to.
How were you when you first met her? Did you blow her phone up with texts? Or were you cool and let her come to you sometimes?
You can turn this around Bfice. Its not too late. But like the book says, if you want to guarantee she won't come back, keep doing what you're doing.
Give yourself a fighting chance.
This was is practically 100% of all communication that has happened between her and I since about January 1st...fyi.
The whole month of January has been complete no contact. That's 25% of the separation thus far.
I'm not taking up for my actions...just saying that the silence really doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. If you look at my last post before the texts...I mean...she never communicates with me. At all.
Literally I may get 10-15 emails that are forwarded with information about the kids schedule. Nothing typed or written. No, here you go. Check this out...nothing. Just an email that is forwarded.
And then, I get maybe 3 texts a week that's something like. S(9) has practice at 7 and D(11) needs to bring her school shoes back.
And that's it. There's just nothing coming from her at all. And I just...I'm just lonely and sad.
She's had time to think. I know I have to go back to no contact. And, I will. I just...hate it. It's not making anything better.
She interprets my silence as negative. How do I win with that?
It's not about winning Bfice. It's about ATTRACTING your wife again.
There are no guarantees. Trust me, I would love a guarantee too.
You have to be ok with you Bfice. The hardest advice I was ever given - STOP NEEDING YOUR WIFE. It's ok to want your wife, but if you need her - that's a bad place to be and you will react from that place.
You gotta let her go before she'll ever come back. Just typing that makes me feel sh!tty but its the truth.
You have time to turn things around, start now.
Thank you for responding. I get it. I do. I'm working on learning how to be okay with me. It's not easy. I mean some days I feel pretty good...I'm a decent looking guy...I have a decent career...
But then other days...everything seems fruitless. I haven't been able to figure out how to interact with her without craving more. I am getting better about spinning out of control. This weekend for example after our big fight, I was more or less okay. I took the kids out and we watched the Super Bowl. That was huge! A month or two ago...I would have been a complete wreck.
I mean, there is improvement. In my attitude...and in my ability to detach from her.
But clearly I still have a long way to go.
Here's a question? Should I agree to let her take the kids on a two week trip and give up my 6 days of custody?
Here's my perspective. 1.) WW has flat out said that if this ends up in court she is going to seek 100% custody, and has made on several occasions, comments about the various things that she will bring up in court to show that I am an alcoholic, a drug addict, a thief. 2.) I visited with a lawyer and she said that North Carolina courts use the number of nights that a child spends with each parent over the course of the separation to determine how the custody and child support arrangements are set up. So, my view is that I want to get as close to 50% custody as I can during the separation so that if and when it ever comes down to it...hopefully, a court would see fit to allow me to have 50% custody no matter what my WW says.
I mean...I didn't tell her she can't take the kids on a trip. All I said was I still wanted my nights with the kids and that I'm willing to re-arrange the calendar to make that happen. That seems reasonable, right?
Get your days first. If she says sure but wants the 2 weeks and then she'll make it up to you later, you'll never get those days back. If you want to re-arrange the calendar, that's cool, just make sure to get your days up front. I say stick to the agreement, no alterations. Allowing her to do this sets a precedent. I have to be honest here. Your WW doesn't sound like a very nice person. Detach and look at her with objective eyes. You'll see.
seems reasonable to me.
offer a reasonable solution by marking 6 nights you can have in exchange for what you lose
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2652681#Post2652681on holidays, be firm and fair don't get caught up all the other stuff stick to issue
as for your first point I would suggest you keep all those txts or emails and make notes in a dairy to support your claim. custody discussions cause a lot of conflict you need to remain calm and reasonable. maybe some of it is said in anger it strikes me as bullying and control
good luck bfice let us know how you go
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2652681#Post2652681