http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2619306#Post2619306Old Thread
So I had been contemplating a new name for my situation, but in light of todays events and my feelings I still need it to remain the same.
I had really thought I was making progress. While I know I have, I realized today I for some reason had not let go. The reality of there most likely being someone else involved was thrown in my face and I am spun.
I know I am more than capable of finding someone else but I have no desire to. Not because I am not ready but because I want my W still instead.
How long can this possibly take!!She has ripped our family apart, not the same person anymore, doesn't treat the kids the same, and most likely in an EA at the least.
What would make me still want her?!
otw
Let Go! I am of course struggling with this too. I believe we all are. I have to tell myself over and over again " she chose OM, I confronted her, was willing to work on M, willing to forgive and she continued to chose OM. She then moved onto a 2nd and most likely a 3rd. She continues to chose OM over me, our M, our children, our family. I can not control her choices nor will I be responsible for them. She is not the woman I M and I do not want her the way she is"
A couple weeks ago I had 3 days were I was really depressed. I finally slapped myself around a bit and started being thankful for everything I do have. WW is the only bad part of my life. I started listing all the upgrades I'm going to make to the house if/when our D finalizes and she moves out.
Our wives are gone. They will never be the same as they were and once we are through this process we probably wouldn't want them the way they were. You don't want her. You want what you thought she was. She wasn't. The wife you want would never have betrayed you. She may still become this person but that is in the future. Look ahead and not behind.
Let Go! Detach! Be a better you! Continue moving forward with your life. She may catch up.......she may not. If she doesn't you don't want her.
Sorry you are going through this otw. You are definately not alone.
I remember when my ex-wife (not the relationship I DB'd) started dating after we seperated. Talk about a kick in the n*ts. That really spun me out.
Allow yourself to feel your emotions because that's how you will get through them. Each tear you cry is another step towards detachment. Before long, you become immune to the pain. That's when you'll know you are detached.
Btw.. after I dropped the rope with my ex-wife, she dumped the OM and came crawling back. It was too late, I had no interest in her anymore (and I thought I could never love another woman except her).
Thank you both,
G I know what you are saying.
Thorton
appreciate you here. I think you are right and in my hear t I knew I needed this to happen to move forward but I really didn't want it to. That is the reason I have been contemplating bringing it up. I will know for sure if she is honest and I can go through the process. Not knowing still leaves some "what if" in me.
IN the end I prob wont say anything but really tempting.
Otw, if I figure out the answer to that one I will let you know! I think it is a process, so you might not even realize you are making progress until you suddenly realize that the waves of emotion are coming less frequently and hit less hard.
Pho
I sit here and ask myself is it just the fact that she doesn't want me anymore and I want her more because I cant have her, or the fact I want my family and don't want to start that part of my life over, or that I really love her.
wish I could answer this.
In the end if it is not meant to be then so be it, but just need the feelings to go away.
otw,
I feel the same way. I just hate staying in purgatory. I keep hearing the it's a marathon and not a sprint, I ran the 100 in track so I don't do long distances well.
2lt2lt
the thing is it is my own purgatory that I have created. She left and says it is over. What makes me do this to myself or all of us for that matter.
I know the rules say detach, gal, etc..I thought I was moving along those lines but feel like day 1 allover again.
So no contact for me and start over. Cant wait for the next phase to get here and feel ok with everything
You do it for what you believe in, you do it for the innocent babies that need you, you do it because it is the right thing to do for you. Show those babies what you believe in and what is worth fighting for. You and your children will be stronger for it no matter the outcome.
you know what, you are right. It is the right thing, it is for my children. I will give them the example they need. I will try to show them this is not what you do when you think things are tough or you are not happy.
you work and fix it.
Let Go! Detach! Be a better you! Continue moving forward with your life. She may catch up.......she may not. If she doesn't you don't want her.
I think this is good advice. Especially the last sentence.
O, I keep telling myself that at the end of this journey I will be able to look myself in the mirror and say that I did everything I could to save my family, and I conducted myself with grace and integrity and love. If it doesn't work out, I will have no regrets, no "what ifs". I will know that I did whatever I could.
I feel hypocritical giving detachment advice however, as that is where I am stuck right now. For me, the things I do to help me "let go" are really more distractions or focusing on things that make me angry. Not true detachment.
Lol pho
We have to fake it! No shame in it. I just hope it turns real somewhere!
I guess I question myself as to what is trying everything. I think I want to fool myself into thinking that we have been apart for a while so I should show a little interest. Like she might be waiting on me or I don't want to be out of her thoughts.
I know that is prob a mistake but I then rethink maybe I am not trying. The thing is this trying needs to be not doing these things. Feels weird!
So i feel a lot better today. I have no control over anything that happens in her life except myself. I will not bring anything up to her. I did speak with the kids more last night. I apologized to them that they have to go through this situation. I know they are not happy with this mess. I know they dont like going to her house, i know they want to stay with me, but are afraid to hurt her feelings.
I tried to explain that they need to be heard and make sure their feelings are known. I told them i can not be the only one to know these things and cant change anything by myself. They need to talk to their mom as well. i told them that I am willing to help. D7 wants to knw why they cant decide what they want to do. I told her they can but we all need to talk about things.
I do believe that right now W would be fine with them being with me more but she would not like the way it would make her look to others.
I am going to find someone to try and get the kids to speak with and then W and i can meet with person individually. I can not let this bother them.
OTW - I agree with your perspective until the last sentence. As a parent I too would love to suck up all my kids pain and take it on as my own, so they were nothing but happy. But that's not realistic. You will need a neutral third party to talk sense to your W and to reinforce that the kids need to speak their mind.
Mahhhty
I agree with you. That is what i meant. I am going to find a good child counselor that has plenty of experience with this. I knowit may be difficult to get W to agree. I think she thinks they are fine, and i also think she doesnt want the reality hitting her.
Not sure how to go about this part and the fact that i really want to go as dark as possible from her right now.
prob wait until after holidays
OTW ... I caught up a bit on your sitch, just thought I would share my perspective on a couple issues.
One of the hardest things for me in all this was the OM/A. Looking at it from a detached place, it was not so much my W was with someone else ..... it was that gut punch that someone beat me, that she preferred to be with OM vs me. Now all that mirror work there were things I could quickly admit that Cali 1.0 was not perfect and in a sense that old house needed some fixin, that said I came to grips that OM was/is a POS and while he was no where near the man I was, at that time .... I was broken and had to rebuild myself.
Detachment is very difficult, was for me anyways, and even now I know I could have done better there. When I got to a place that I will say was more Indifference than detachment, I took a very large step in my progress. I went ahead and had a long mirror talk with myself and came to this conclusion. I will always love my wife in some capacity .... regardless if we are M or D ... regardless if we sleep in the same bed or in 2 different houses ... I will love her as she is the mother of my son whom is the greatest gift I could have ever received. Allowing myself that, opened my heart from being bitter and angry with the sitch ... accepting HER choice and I started moving forward with MY life. I have a calendar ... I used to track things .. bright red letters when I arrived at this place I wrote "Dropped the Rope" and I did not look back. I refused to allow my W to define me as a man ..... amazing when that happened I began to find myself again and rebuild all that was torn down, not what she tore down, what I allowed her to tear down.
As far as the kids go. Brutal honesty from me here. Be careful, I get the vibe you are using them ... certain areas where you tell them they need to be heard by their mother, comes off as you want them to talk sense into mommy (delivering your message in their words) and not tear the family apart. Tread carefully here, I grew extremely close to my S, and there were times I wanted to send him mini-torpedos to deliver behind the enemy walls on my behalf ... that's manipulation (out of our own fear) to achieve OUR objectives. Truth is ... she is the mother of your children, she will ALWAYS hold that role, being a Father or Mother is not something one can divorce themselves from. Sending them in to speak their minds to her is really out of your control, the R between your W and your kids is your W's issue to deal with not yours .... like you I have a great R with my S, with all that happened he felt safe with me, I remained his 'home' ..... even then W accused me of turning him against her to which I validated but fired off a serious truth dart her way (She repeatedly exposed S to OM and S caught them kissing) and have not been accused of that since.
My advice ... take the high road, if you want counseling for the kids it might not be a bad way to go, discuss this with your W so its a mutual thing and IF anything comes out of those sessions that's not on you .. its unbiased and unlikely you would be able to sway a counselor to side with you ... its about the kids here right?
Caliguy,
thank you for stopping in and sharing your experience. I agree with you, i think a lot of my pain is the fact that i wasnt the one she still chooses or has pushed me aside for someone else. My pride is hurt very badly.
I do look back into the past especially at this time of the year and see memories that we shared and can stand thinking someone else is there. This is my issue to get over.
I do look at myself and still see some lingering things that need fixing. I have come a long way from BD, but there are still some pieces still there.
As far as the children go, I get it, you are 100% right. I have stepped back many times and done nothing because i could see this as well. Then i also have moments after both are breaking down to me and say to myself am i living up to everything i always told them i would be for them.
These kids should not have to go through this, but i definetely can not use them as a pawn either.
I will speak with W about the counselor for them just to make sure they are coping with everything ok and go from there.
I just read your most recent update and happy to see you are still working on things. I really commend your patience and commitment to the process. i am sure at times it felt impossible as i can feel also. Thank you for sharing so much
I am trying to remove myself completely from communication with W for a while. I need to do this for me.
She sent me a text stating she will be dropping kids swim class stuff off today. I don't feel a reason I need to reply as it doesn't warrant one. Is this rude or fine?
I actually have anger towards her for the first time. I was wondering when it would come.
When she gets here I plan on just being busy in the garage or something and let the kids get the stuff.
I'm conflicted recently as there has been more open communication between us but the events that unfolded the other day about the most likely OM have be knowing it is nothing.
I am looking forward to the weekend even though I won't have the kids I plan on doing a lot for myself. Problem right now is there are a lot of holiday parties going on that means drinking which I am trying to avoid as the next day seems to be a big let down as it is a false fun time and then reality comes back. I am trying to have real activities consume my time.
Hi OTW,
Looks like we are in similar circumstances (except your W moved out and I am still in house S). I have had anger towards W for a very long time. I still do. I am the poster child for anger right now. All that anger has not helped one bit. Anger is the poison you take hoping someone else will die. It's toxic. You will be angry - that is a natural response to our injured pride and our realization that we are not in control of the situation. Just try to keep it on the back burner by GAL and channeling all that anger into love for your kids.
Hope that helps. I know it helps me.
RAI
P.S. it looks like a lot of visitors to your thread are very similar to you. Don't know how I have not stumbled upon your thread sooner. Or perhaps I have, but forgot.
RAi
This is the first bout with anger for me. I am sure there will be more as the instance fades away. I am def keeping it bottled inside and will make sure I release in something constructive.
She did just come by. My S4 yelled no when she got out of her truck. He said what are you doing here. She told him he said ok I thought you were trying to pick us up. Crazy. I am not sure how she takes that. I stayed busy with my truck and had D get stuff from her. She dropped some stuff next to me telling me it is some files she found that were mine. I said thanks and continued. Kids were in their own world so she said bye to them and left.
Right after a female neighbor with kids the same age came out and we spoke for a few. She eventually asked how everything is going I told her ok considering. She seemed very sad for us. She expressed some things about wife before she moved and I kind of just validated and said it is her journey for happiness.
RAI
It is crazy how many same stories here. It is sad. I don't know what the future holds but with the anger I feel closer to not caring as much as I can't live this way.
I have been keeping up with you and reading a lot. I will drop a line.
Got D7 on the bus this morning and she was not the happiest to know she wasnt coming home after school. S4 was the same as i dropped him at school.
I did here D7 tell wife on the phone this morning that she is having xmas here (meaning my house) because it is her home. W did not really respond.
I am going to get busy on some projects i have been wanting to start tonight. Prob hit the gym as well. I know i have some friends that are aware of my situation that will want me to go out with them, but it isnt really good for me right now. I find myself looking around and saying to myself this is ok and I can see myself out in the singles scene again, but then i sit back and know it is not what i want.
Going to play golf both Saturday and sunday. I also need to get xmas shopping done.
So should stay nice and busy.
Struggling a little at the moment. Had a decent weekend and good time. W wanted to take the kids to see Santa at the switch today. Everything was fine. Didn't sit around with puppy dog eyes. Consumed my time with th kids. We all ate a quick lunch together and then we rode to my truck together. I loaded the kids and turned to say goodbye and looked her in the eyes. Thought I saw something in the look back.
I now have such an urge to find a reason to call her or something. I think spending a little time really made me miss her. I wanted to ask her if she wanted to have dinner with us.
I know it is probably just from my wants and desires and shouldn't do anything.
I guess I am typing here instead of doing anything.
Do not call her! If there is something really there, it will still be there tomorrow, and next week, and the week after. Be patient.
I know pho. Thank you. That is why I came here.
Figured I would just get my feelings out here instead. I appreciate the support.
So I figure now that i have had a nights sleep I will come back and give some more information on my last post and especially now that I have had a chance to process a little more
So Friday the kids went to school and W is scheduled to get them. I have noticed the weekends are rough either if i have kids or not. If i do not have them i struggle to find something to occupy my time that does not involve heading out with friends to bars or something. I really do not want to do this. When i do have the kids I find my self wondering what is going on in the other world of my W.
So i know right now i am going to be planning better for the weekends and keep busy productively.
Saturday speaking to the kids they were in the truck with W and mentioned going to see santa on sunday and they wanted me to go. I asked W the deal, and she said she is meeting her friend and her kids there and wanted to know if I wanted to meet them. I accepted as I have not taken kids yet because i figured we should all go together anyway for the kids.
Sunday came and met them. Everyone looked great. W, kids and I all had some lunch after and we talked a bit about this and that. W drove us to my truck on the other side of the mall after to get backpacks etc..As we were all giving goodbyes her and I had a quick second of looking at each other. It was a different look than recent. When we were eating i made sure to look her directly in the eyes while we were talking. This may have been an extension from that.
Now before i continue I do not want to sound like a jerk, but at that risk i need to explain something. Before W and i were together and even after I have had no problem getting attention from women. Through the years I ahve been able to pick up on just simple ways they look at me and read it very well. Sorry if that sounds extremely cocky or whatever, but...
So when i caught this look from her i immediately knew this was different. I have seen this once or twice since she moved.
So this got me going and wanting to extend more communication. I am not stupid and can see that I may be looking way to far into something in a look that I could easily be wrong about. Even if I wasnt wrong this thought of hers could have come and gone just as fast. So after the occurrence earlier this week with thinking there is someone else to this I am all messed up. I know i should just let it go because I am doing all of this in my head without anything actual on either front. I will say this that siting here typing this is actually helping me work through it all!
So my take aways from all of this is, stay the course, focus on GAL for weekends with and without kids, and read DR again. I started reading it again and crazy what you can pick up when you are not in the same frame of mind as last time.
I am going to come back with a question I really need help on in a different post regarding the holidays, but i dont want it to get lost with this post.
so here is my question i need help with.
Looking through the calendar the kids are scheduled to be with me on XMas eve and then until the afternoon on xmas day.
I have a divorced friend who told me for the first year we should still try to find a way to all do xmas together. he said maybe ask if she would like to show up early xmas morning before kids wake up or stay the night before. I am not sure if i should offer this or not.
I know for myself i am not sure how to think about it. I know the kids would love it, but approaching it can be construed as pursuing. I m not even sure what she would say.
The whole xmas thing is really weird for us, we have not even discussed anything about it, who is getting kids what, schedule nothing. It is like we are both avoiding it.
I would really like some thoughts on all of this.
thanks
We are having the same problem, it's less than two weeks away and neither one of us has really figured out gifts or schedules. Maybe I can employ a 180 here as I did for Thanksgiving.
What would the 180 be for you?
hey OTW,
Sounds like you are going through the same thing as me, I have seen some looks from W that have me guessing. An with no OM as far as I know, makes it so hard not to act on the looks.
Do you have GAL activities you can do when the kids are not home?
Well I am pretty busy but when I don't have them I tend to just hang with friends that want to go out to bars. I need to find something for the night when I have the kids or don't. I don't want to do the bars and I also don't like sitting thinking what W is doing when I do have kids. I have a few ideas and need to implement.
Any thoughts on xmas question? I am looking for all opinions.
Hey OTW,
I don't know if I am the best to answer. You gave me the advise that Christmas is for the kids, do what's best for your kids. I am spending Christmas with my W family. I think that will change if I was D. Right now, this year, I think its the best decision for my kids and the best decision to DB.
I agree with the opportunity for DB. Now that we live separate I just am unsure if it appears I am pursuing or letting her not feel the loss
I remember your question and that is what we did the entire time we still lived together. We had to make things ok for the kids. Now I just don't know since everything is different.
I really don't know if I should mention anything about xmas at all. Or do I just let it go and let her bring things up?
You asked me to chime in with an opinion on your situation.
It says your location is Virginia.
If that is actually the case then you more than most have to snoop just to discover the truth about you life, find out who OM is and what she's been doing.
Then, once you discover it, file for divorce on the grounds of adultery then do not sleep with her again (NO SEX or you might nullify the adultery).
She'll be back home begging you to reconcile in no time.
Virginia is a NO ALIMONY for adulterers state.
Custody in Virginia is also very favorable towards the non-fault spouse.
Your wife has very little work history or experience and you've worked you butt off for her and your family. It may not sound romantic but she'll come back for the money, the kids and the lifestyle and when she does you'll be able to demand she end her affair (no contact for life) and commit to a recovery program. She'll gladly oblige and the two of you can get on with recovering your family. If she's really dumb or OM is a billionaire and can support her better than you, she may just go. In that case, you absolutely tried. There are no guarantees.
The ability to get more custody (and protect your children and save on child support) ply the money you'll potentially save on alimony certainly dictates that you find a way to hire a PI to document her likely affair. All it'll take is following her around clubbing one night as it sounds like she's doing this completely in public. It's a little risky because I feel there's a good chance she's trying to be really really careful because she is probably aware of the Virginia Alimony laws herself (most likely the first thing her attorney advised her about). There's a good chance she's watching you too - hoping you'll cheat some night and give her "non-fault party" status.
Oh...another thing. You own your own businesses. IF you do divorce in 2016 or early 2017 (I know in Virginia you need to be separated a year before you can file in most cases), then your 2015 tax returns will very likely be used to calculate alimony (if any), business valuations (income method) and even child support. Thus, by December 31st this year (the next few weeks) you want to maximize every single expense you can. Purchase as many supplies as you can (lifetime supply of paper and paperclips), prepay your rent, send utility and other bill payments in early, instead of a raise give employees a [bigger] Christmas bonus, defer income to 2016, borrow against the cash value of a life insurance policy and put it in your kids college 529 account (that way you won't have to split it with wife), buy cash card gifts for your employees and anything else you and your accountant can come up with to legitimately minimize 2015 income.
I have been very careful with all of the finace aspect of things and we do have a signed separation agreement already.
Other than the legal situation what is your train of thought for now that we are living apart. Or do you believe the only way to having something repaired is the possible OM being brought to light and causing her to be scared of losing all financial aspects?
Do you believe in any other way of reconciliation?
Interesting question....
"Do you believe in any other way of reconciliation?"
Yes. I believe there are 100's of paths to reconciliation and that God has the power to restore, redeem, repair and grant the gift of repentance to anyone at any time.
You or anyone really are free to pursue whatever path you deem best for you and reap the rewards and/or consequences of those choices. It's your life.
That being said I think there are good choices among those 100's of paths, better choices and a couple best choices therein. But that's just my lay opinion. Just because I was able to save my marriage a decade ago and help many others save theirs (or become contented divorcees that have since happily remarried) doesn't make me an expert. I didn't go to college for this and build a counseling, psychology and sociology foundation to my knowledge base. Personal experience is valuable but it's not overriding a hundred years of practice by many smart persons who have been in the trenches of marital counseling for 25-50 years. I think there is an objectivity when you study experts and ponder/present their ideas without the vested interest in "selling" those ideas to make a living. Gottman used to be on a team of researchers that promoted Imago Therapy. Later he did a study and found Imago Therapy to be no better than doing nothing - (the placebo group faired just as well as the Imago Group). He concluded also that his prior studies attempting to predict divorce based upon compatability (which they then sold as premarital "compatibility" counseling aids) didn't work. So there's a lot of flux in the business of marital advice and counseling and it's REALLY hard to study (because how do you design an accurate test - who has to be the control group and what "placebo" can you give the control group - wouldn't horrible counseling be obvious and you can't just give them nothing and every couple is unique and they may just reconcile all on their own whether in the study group or the control group).
So....getting back to the question. I feel currently that a couple of "plans" in these situations are more likely than not going to be more successful than other plans (i.e.- your best shot). Also, IMO "success" isn't necessarily determined by reconciliation alone. To truly be successful the marriage needs to become better than before....to make the ordeal worth it. Also, it's "successful" if someone utilizes a plan and still ends up divorcing, I think it's a wonderful tribute to their coach when they can tell him/her that they'd do it again the same way. That they don't regret and resent the unfruitful effort they made to attempt to save their marriage and family. That's a difficult balance to achieve but something you need to think about as you seek advice in your situation and incorporate opinions into your personal plan.
I don't have my own plan. I've been accused a couple times here lately of promoting my own plan. This is MWD's website. I try very hard to make suggestions and give opinions within the framework of divorce busting concepts. IMO, it's one of the good plans I mentioned above and she's been at this a lot longer than me.
What do I believe are the universal truths in all the best plans.
1. Truth - you can't win a war without knowing the enemy and you can't recover your marriage without full basic knowledge. Truth is foundation of any relationship much more so than trust. ("basic" = you don't need to know everything but you have to know the basic truths about your life = is she having an affair or not).
2. Until the affair is over and no contact is achieved nothing "works". The affair has become their primary relationship ---- their primary addiction - and just like the crack head everything they do or say is predicated upon that primary relationship/addiction. You can either pull back, GAL, 180, sit and wait and or "stand" waiting for the incredible destructive and hurtful affair to end all on it's own (as they inevitably almost always do eventually) or you can fight it tooth and nail but either way, you're not going to truly reconcile until "no contact" is achieved. Recovering alcoholics can't hang out in bars, recovering crack heads can't hang out on inner city street corners and recovering way wards can't keep working with the "other person" or being facebook friends with the "other person" or even living down the street from the OP.
3. If your spouse's affair partner is married, they need to be told about the affair just as you'd hope they inform you if they knew about it. It's the right thing to do and no matter the ramifications and consequences, no one ever regrets doing the right thing.
GB
thank you. That was very insightful. I know you get some guff around here based on some posts. I think maybe it is taken out of context sometimes and maybe some people just don't believe the healing process can be helped by knowing about the affair or continuing to snoop.
I do agree when you go to battle you better know all you are up against.
I will take your thoughts into consideration and process.
While I have your attention, a few posts ago I posted a question regarding the xmas holiday and whether or not to involve W. if you don't mind I would like your input.
thanks again
Otw.....thanks for your words on my thread. I see you are really struggling with the Christmas question. And like most we can usually see others dilemmas clearer than our own.
But I am new to the world of DB so take this with a few grains of salt.
If you and your W were able to do the mall/seeing Santa without too much of an issue then I do not see how asking about Christmas can be considered pursuing IF it is truly done just for the kids.
Putting aside the look she gave you and what it might mean. And the reason I say only if it's really for the kids is because she might say no.
If you can ask with no expectations I think it's okay.
I didn't ask myself but was informed that my Mr has plans c
For Christmas eve and wants to come by after to see the kids and again on Christmas morning for the opening of the gifts.
But even without me asking. And feeling myself get upset over him having his own plans. I know now had i asked it would have been with expectations and it's possible all hell would've broken loose when he had to say yes but only for a while because i am committed elsewhere.
If a no will be too hard to take. Then perhaps you shouldn't ask.
Just my very NON expert opinion.
Wishing you luck no matter what you decide.
Rain
Rain
thanks for stopping in and i guess you are right and i will explain.
Little update
So past few days still have had way too much thinking. Had the kids and we were all good. I have been contemplating the whole xmas thing and if i am seeing any signals from her.
Something finally came out of my D7 mouth last night that i was curious when it would. She said to me, that she should have asked santa for her family to be back together. That hurt me really bad. I dont know if she says these things in front of W or not. This morning as they were speaking to W on the phone, D7 said the cat missed her then her and S4 both said they missed everybody and the family. W quickly changed the subject.
Had S4 preschool holiday program this morning. I saved W a seat. We spoke a bit, was a little awkward. Finally she said to me what the plans were for xmas. I asked her what was she thinking. She said she was trying to sort it out. Finally i just came out and told her that i believe for the kids we should possibly try to do the xmas morning together. SHe did agree. We have to work out the details, but I was shocked.
I am trying not to go to overboard with the thinking but I am looking forward to the opportunity of being the new me around her.
Anyway, will update more later.
otw
Keep plugging away. You're doing great. Keep detaching and doing your own thing. Even though I'm 99.99% sure I'm headed to D I know I'm a much stronger and better person than I was 6 months ago and she is fool to be leaving.
Keep being a great father and man
Sorry...tied up a few days here.
Setting my feelings aside that she's probably going to crash and come home as soon as you get serious about filing divorce (in Virginia) and cutting her off financially (based upon adultery)....not to mention I presume you are fully supporting her living separately with your family income which should infuriate you if you come to discover you've just been paying for her to have her own love nest.
Yes, have her over for Christmas.
The look she gave you the other day is because she loves her kids and seeing you love her kids too reminds her of her shared history with you and how you're not such a bad guy and good father. Presuming she's having an affair, that's not "in love" feelings but it's better than feeding her rationalizations and justifications for leaving/cheating by being an obnoxious uncaring jerk. Right now, "in love" feelings are likely reserved exclusively for her OM right now so until the affair ends (as they almost always do) you are left with weird slightly loving longing looks usually followed by a pullback (oh crap, what am I doing leading him on when I'm in love with OM and cheating on him - I've got to be more careful because it makes me feel twinges of guilt - where's OM because I don't need to be thinking about this right now - it's too hard to sort this out - maybe tomorrow).
side thought - It takes a special kind of wayward wife to talk her husband into paying for her to move out and get her own paid for place including spending money so she can continue her adulterous affair behind your back unimpeded. My wife TRIED to do this but I just said "no". You have the right to say "no" and you have the right to change your mind. She may get anger. She may get furious. She will try to convince you that she WAS thinking of reconciling but not now - that changing your mmd and say "no more" is the straw that breaks the camels back. Your marriage can recover from her anger/fury, it can't recover if there is, in TRUTH, another man in your marriage. This is similar to a drug addict spouse - if your wife was doing crack would you pay for her to move out into her own crack apartment and give her spending money (for crack) so she could just sit and do crack all day without your "interference" or "annoyingly asking her to stop it". No - no one would do that. But you also wouldn't take her over your lap and spank her or beat her up. Your job as her spouse isn't to punish her or be the brunt force of retribution nor is it to enable her. As her spouse, I think, you are called to be the voice of reason and hold her accountable for her actions. If her actions naturally involve consequences - you should be the one to protect/shield her from the natural consequences of her choices. It's a balancing act for sure but not making her mad is NOT the goal. Addicts always become irate when you take away their drugs and they remain emotionally hostile as they progress through withdrawal.
OK back to Christmas.
I think you should just tell her that you don't want to talk relationship talk at all. That, to you it appears this is likely/probably going to be your last Christmas together as a family and therefore you don't want to look back and remember it as being full of angst and conflict. And you follow through with that. Wayward wives LOVE the idea of having family time together and the always big hope that you two will remain friends and spend all your time together as one big happy extended family. Waywards also love the idea of no conflict TODAY. They hate being made to feel any guilt and just begrudge always having to have relationship conversations with the betrayed husband begging and crying. She's not ready to make decisions today anyway so don't bother and the more you don't talk about it the more she MAY pursue talking about it (especially in your case where you are essentially her benefactor paying her bills - she doesn't want to lose your cooperation and she might get the notion that maybe you've found someone else and are pulling back from her - some wayward wives respond to that by chasing themselves). If she pursues conversation, follow your GAL/180 suggestions by engaging a little and then pulling out of the conversation first to go have fun doing something else. Waywards LOVE distractions so it's usually an easy sell - as much as you want to talk serious (OMG do you ever want to talk) it's just not productive. Until she ends her affair it's ALL just talk....actions are the only thing that matters so skip the conversations to the extent YOU want to teach or explain anything to her. Just listen. Acknowledge. Tend to agree and then distract with something fun. Take the cotton out of your ears and put them in your mouth. Make Christmas as much fun for everyone.
The catch - I'm doing this because I'm thinking this is our last Christmas as a family. Somewhere and somehow during the course of your conversations and fun you just have to slip in once or twice (casually and with a smile on your face) - "I'm going to miss this". The point is...THIS DAY is about the family and having a great Christmas in this moment. She is your wife still and as long as she remains your wife you will continue to love, honor and cherish her BUT - next Christmas you two are either going to be together working on your marriage OR divorced, and, IF divorced - THIS DAY ain't happening. THIS DAY is not a crystal ball into how future separated/divorced Christmas's are going to happen but rather a look into the future of how Christimas's together as a complete family could be. If you two divorce, you will not be her friend and you two will hardly ever speak or see each other. As casually as possible and without being intense - "listen honey, your choices and behavior have devastated me. If you complete the devastation of me and break up our family by continuing down this destructive path, continuing a relationship with you in any manner will be unhealthy for me and modeling very unhealthy behavior for our children. I matter too; and, I will not teach our children that they need to suck up being abused emotionally and abandoned for the good of everyone else. I am a good man. A good provider. A good father. I don't deserve this - instead I deserve TODAY (looking around at the joy you created in your home). I'm not ready to throw us away just yet. We've come a long way together but I'm nearing the end of my rope and there are lots of women that would be lucky to have me. What I'm saying is, do not be deceived by today, if we divorce, I don't intend to mess up the rest of my life and future relationship by keeping you in it. You can have all of me or none of me - your choice (and time is of the essence). That's enough - let's go bowling - yippee, who wants to build a box fort"
It's not an ultimatum. It's a warning and it disabused her of the idea that THIS is how separation and divorce will be hereafter. You fill all her needs for family commitment and make Christmas such a good time for her and the kids but then there is the takeaway - that THIS is not how it's going to continue to be unless she makes some hard choices.
I speculate she's having an affair. Usually when they move out/separate, if it's a single guy she can just announce it to the world - "my husband and I are separated, the marriage has been over a long time - here, meet my new boyfriend". Since that isn't happening it's possible/likely that the OM is married. In that case - take the next week to get any and all proof you can (hire a PI - whatever) and then AFTER your great Christmas family time together - where you probably don't even have any serious conversations like above (unless she pursues it) - you call the OM's wife and let her know the truth about her life. The dichotomy of having such a wonderful family Christmas day together followed by the immediate knowledge that you KNEW the entire day, sucked it up, were kind to her in moments you probably wanted to strangle her and you did that for her AND the kids - and now the affair is blowing up. YOU told the OM"s wife and now everything is frantic in affair land just when they were hoping to spend some quality time together over the holidays.
Since you are in Virginia - you don't have to actually file for divorce to make your discovered wayward wife panic about losing her financial support and ever getting alimony. Just indicating that you are meeting with a lawyer and discussing options is very often enough. If OM is married, he's very likely to dump your wife and go home trying to save his family/marriage and your wife will begin the descent towards rock bottom - where the decision to come home where their is love, family, kids and peace along with the hope that maybe her marriage can be saved OR stay in turmoil and hell of continued sin without your continued financial support.
Or, do nothing and then next December we'll be discussing how much you hate her and wish you'd never even bothered trying along with how cute and nice your new girlfriend is while your children still cry for their mom and dad to reconcile. The window of plan appeasement is only so long. Sometimes you've got to stage an intervention and drag the wayward back to the family any way you can. It doesn't matter if she loves you, respects you, trusts you, whatever ---- you can fix anything in your marriage TOGETHER once there isn't another person in it.
GB
First thank you for the time and effort you put into your posts.
R talk is not an issue especially on my end, unless she wants to speak on it (which I doubt). We had gotten all of that out while we were under the same roof. There is nothing left to say.
We have a signed separation agreement and I will look into with my L about how it is able to be changed if there are new findings regarding the OM. Or if i find out and file based off of this news and will it change anything.
I have my suspicions on how it would all play out if she does have Om and where it came from.
Regarding xmas she is coming over to be there for the morning, but the details of when and how we are doing it will be determined still.
Again thank you and i will keep posted.
otw, am I correct that in VA you need to be legally separated for 1 year before filing for D?
I got my info from a neighbor who is a walkaway wife. Actually half of my neighbors are now walkaway wives it seems. I am the only left behind wife, what the heck?
yes you are correct about the one year. We signed separation agreement as of Nov 1.
as I do more reading around here and the other areas I believe even though my W is in her early 30's she is more of a MLC'er. She has said many times that she wants to put her kids first and then herself. I know she feels she missed out on things in life.
She fills her life with plenty of distractions and always on the go. What i have noticed is that she has not made an effort at a career or anything further. She is relying on the support i give her and the savings we split. With her bills that will not last.
Oh well, i need to find a way to just really let go and stop faking.
Fo, it is crazy how many people just give up these days. I dont get it.
I don't get it either, o. It's not like they were forced to get married and have these kids with us. I guess that isn't helpful thinking, but it is sad.
If you have already signed your PSA, then you will more than likely just stick to that.
In VA, it is damn near impossible to use Adultry for the grounds of Divorce. As my lawyer told me, you would almost have to have video footage for any VA judge to rule on that one.
I had printed emails, and was told that they were circumstantial at best...
Yes, Fo.....one year from the agreed on separation date, your legally signed PSA can turn into your final decree.
And I say PSA, because there really isn't a separation agreement in VA. However, the PSA can serve as that.
PSA = Property Settlement Agreement
My L told me the same thing. All proof could be used for was to negotiate basically.
oh yeah, and the put the kids thing first is laughable. When a 7 year old says she doesnt then it may be time to look at yourself.
oh yeah, and the put the kids thing first is laughable. When a 7 year old says she doesnt then it may be time to look at yourself.
By whom ???
Your WAS ?
yes, she gave her statement saying she is putting her kids first then herself in life.
Problem is she has alienated the kids to the point where they dont want to really be with her. I dont tell her the things they say, but really want to!
The best thing that I can tell you, is to document everything.
Get it written down in a journal so that you have what you need down the road. As the court says, if it isn't written, then it didn't happen..
How are you dividing custody ?
We are 50/50. I would never keep them from her. But info feel the kids should have a say in it also.
I have a journal but need to get more regular.
OK, here we go
Xmas eve I took the kids to her house in the morning so they could go to visit some of her family a few hours away. She got them back in the late evening and me and the kids did our thing until bed time. Got the kids in bed and then played santa until around midnight.
Got a message from W at 6am saying she was heading over. I went down and unlocked the door and told her so, and that the kids are still asleep and to nap on the couch for now. As soon as she got there the kids started waking up! The kids were done opening gifts before the sun came up! We gave W the gift the kids picked out for her, a necklace, she immediately put it on.
I made breakfast while W helped kids with some gifts. She cleaned things up from the presents etc..We all ate together and did a little more cleaning up. She wanted to head home to get the gifts ready for there and get a few minutes head start. I showered and then headed over with the kids. Watched them open the gifts, and man did she spoil them this year! I know they had been complaining that there is nothing to do there but I don't think she realizes buying them all of this is going to change them not wanting to be there.
All presents were done and I started helping kids open toys and playing with a few things. I went upstairs with them and just sat and played and opened about 1000 boxes! At one point she informed me one of her friends was going to stop by in about an hour. I didn't respond but wasn't sure if it was a hint to leave or not. I wasn't done with the kids so I just stayed and focused on them. W sat with us and was putting together a photo album for the friend coming over. One of the friends that has told me she was on my side, and the same one I have given a job.
So friend got there early and and wife wasn't some putting the album together. She ran back upstairs to finish so me and kids went down and sat with her and her boyfriend. The friend gave me a hug and a big smile, I started mind reading into the smile but couldn't figure it out.
Anyway they got done and headed out and I went back to helping the kids. W came up and said she was going to put on some make up then put out some food. I wasn't sure if she was talking to me or the kids. I started feeling awkward after I finished doing stuff with the kids and maybe felt like I should leave.
So she put out the food and I took the kids down to make sure they ate and then started saying I need to get going. I was making dinner and they all were coming over along with my mother. S4 through a fit about me leaving and wanted to go with me, eventually she looked up and said it is fine if he goes unless you cant take him. Not sure what she thought I was going to do, but I answered saying it is fine. Before leaving she was joking around with D7 saying maybe they should call an Uber to come to dinner so mommy should start drinking. We both laughed and joked about it for a few minutes. I then offered up that my mom could pick them up on her way and I am sure she would enjoy the company. ( Moms first xmas since stepfather passed away).
So they all get there for dinner and we have a great time mom and W exchanged gifts. Everyone seemed relaxed and having a few drinks. Eventually it came time to go, S4 started flipping out. This was my moms first time witnessing this. She couldn't take it and had to go sit in the car. I eventually asked W if she minded if I drove S over and bathed him and put him to bed. She was fine with that. Went over there and bathed them both and layed in bed with S4 to get him to sleep. I fell asleep too! W woke me up and I headed home.
Spoke to mom on the way home and she had some thoughts about W and how she thinks she is battling a lot of things and not dealing with them well. Meaning other family member relationships and what not. She said she just held her hand on the way back after son flipped out.
So next day my father was coming into town and I needed a few hours extra with the kids. I waited until dad got in town with stepmother to call wife and tell her I was coming. I wanted to see if they would feel uncomfortable seeing W or even wanted to. They both know what happened but I really never gave them all the details. So I gave the them the long story. They said they bought her gifts.
So I had to call wife and tell her this and asked if she wanted to watch the kids open or meet us for dinner. I also told her they do not know I am asking and there is no pressure to come. She needed to think about it for a while.
She called me an hour later and said she was heading to the gym and asked if she could drop the kids off. I said yes and brought nothing else up. A few hours later she called and asked what we were doing. I told her just playing around. She asked where we were going for dinner. I said we had not decided yet, and asked if she was coming. She said she was going to come meet us. I told her I would sort out and let her know. We all met up and ate. We sat across from each other and we all had a good time. We spoke about a bunch of stuff and everyone seemed happy and enjoyed ourselves.
We got done and left
So in those 2 days we spent more time together than prob even when we were under the same roof since the summer. I had a great time. there was no pressure. A few awkward moments but overall ok.
It definitely made me want to be together again. I am trying to focus on being grateful for the time and not focus on wanting more.
I did notice that my picture was up in the house. Not just ones of me and kids or the family that would be for the kids sake, but on her desk is a picture of her and I from our honeymoon, then in another place she has an album from our wedding and some other stuff. I was shocked by this.
I am lost at what to do from here. I want more, but I cant pressure so I am thinking the best thing is to just back off again. It is just so hard after almost 2 month s of this then getting so much time together as a family to go back to so much distance.
Anyway that was pretty long. I think I will stop now!
otw,
Sounds like a really nice holiday. Really good for the kids. You're doing a great job. Keep reminding yourself to not read into anything. I'm afraid I may not be able to give great advice since I'm now D'd but I think you're doing a really good job.
The pics and album are odd. I wouldn't let her know you noticed them. She could have placed them purposefully to temp check
Keep being the best OTW you can be, be mysterious and great. Keep being awesome!
I am definitely not letting her know I noticed. I am really trying not to look into anything.
The day I picked the kids up she didn't call them the rest of the day. The next morning she spoke to them for 2 minutes then not again for the day.
I know she made sure she was out partying with her friends but that stuff drives me nuts to ignore the kids.
I will update more later.
My WXW does the same thing. She went to Dallas during the summer for 3 days and didn't contact D4 once. When I've been away I've asked her to have D4 call me and on 2 different occasions she made up excuses as to why D4 couldn't call. First, was " she doesn't want to talk right now, I'll have her call you later" - she never did. 2nd "D4 went outside to play with her brothers"- several hours after I sent the txt request.
I contribute it to their self serving nature. There isn't anything we can do about it. Just keep being the best Dad's and Men we can be. Lead by example.
I just think that she likes to believe whatever she decides to do at the time is the best and nothing can tell her otherwise. Nothing Lee matters once she decides something. I could tell today after not calling them again last night that she was reaching for things to talk about with them. The thing is they are not interested in talking to her. S4 just completely walked away after wing when I made him talk to her. D7 just answered with yep to every question
Anyway me and kids are hitting movies tonight. We have been having a great time even though they are fighting like cats and dogs.
Next post will be all about me and what I am doing. Way too much about her.
not much to update today. Just wanted everyone to know that i am reading on many situations and hope the best for all.
I will try to update later. Trying to figure out my first New Years eve without kids or wife in a very long time. Not sure i want to hit the bar scene but seems like that is all everyone I know is doing!
Hey OTW,
Just stopping by to let you know I was here. Sounds like you had a great Christmas, that is so good for the kids.
How was your new years eve?
New years eve was ok,
I did end up going tout for a while so i wasnt stuck at home with my thoughts. I send messages to kids and family at midnight. I even sent a message to my W. Very simple happy new year and her name. She replied with a Happy new years!, then she sent some pictures of the kids. I told her thank you for the pictures and thanks for giving them a great new years eve. she replied your welcome and now she has to wrestle them to go to bed.
it was a pleasant interaction.
Something i realized that bothers me more and more for a few reasons is when i have the kids and she doesnt call them at night to say good night. Makes me mad that she is probably out and thinks running around with friends is more important than her kids at that point. Then i realize it bothers me because I start getting anxious about what she is doing.
I then started expecting her not to call, and began getting over it.
It made me realize that she is far from being out of her fog.
And just now as i am typing this i receive a text message from her. it is weird because my heart drops when i see a message from her, the kids are in school right now so what could she need to message me for?
the message read "is my sams club membership cancelled?" I kind of laughed to myself. I have had a company membership for years and always just gave her a card off of my account. the renewal was in the end of november and the last time i went i had to pay for the renewal on my card. I did not pay for her card.
I told her i simply had to pay my renewal last time i was there and she may be able to pay the renewal while she is there, or get s day pass under my name.
thing is i know she will have to get her own membership now but not my problem right?
Weird thing is still makes me feel bad because i always just took care of things like this for her and it doesnt feel good to not have renewed hers. I did consider it but i feel like i would have been still pursuing in a round about way if i did this.
Oh well, we will see how this plays out. I have had the intention of trying to minimize all contact in January and reassess at the end of the month. I am doing this to see if i can detach a little more for myself and honestly to see what kind of reaction i get from her as well.
I know it should just be for me, hopefully after this it will be more for me.
otw,
Sandi has told me over and over again......"you have to let her put on her big girl panties and take care of herself." Everything you did take care of for her she'll need to take care of for herself. This is part of the process of realizing what it will be like without you. She had to feel the loss of you in every aspect of life.
I struggle daily to not help my WXW. even though we are officially D'd she is still living in the house
Yeah I know. Just so weird. I made her a priority for so long in my own way that it feel
Strange.
I've been looking through the MLC threads this morning, looking for inspiration and guidance. I found this little gem, and I'm going around sharing it with everyone I think it may be helpful to. Sometimes everything just gets to be too much, and I forget where I'm supposed to be focusing. It really helped me redefine where I want to go, and how I'm going to get there. I hope it helps you a bit, too.
Consider the DB basic principals....
1) Healthy boundaries.
2) Better communication
3) GAL
4) "act as if"
5) Change how you look at things
6) Keep a positive outlook
7) Personal growth
8) Learning more about you so that you can be all that you can be.
9) Learning to avoid "cheese less tunnels"
10) Love and respect
These principals can be used in all facets of ones life. When used properly....they truly can change you from the INSIDE OUT.
Thanks for posting Ancaire
the funny thing is I understand what I should be doing and know what not to do, but my mind just races so much lately.
I really think time is just going to be my answer and focusing on these things.
thanks again
Something i realized that bothers me more and more for a few reasons is when i have the kids and she doesnt call them at night to say good night. Makes me mad that she is probably out and thinks running around with friends is more important than her kids at that point. Then i realize it bothers me because I start getting anxious about what she is doing.
I then started expecting her not to call, and began getting over it.
How can you change your mindset to not have any expectations either way, positive or negative?
Azzork
I am not sure the answer to that. I really wish i did know the answer. I know the standard answers are detach, GAl, but I have the mind that analyzes everything. Actually, way too much. I am aware of this and I have had IC discussions on this.
I can easily create something in my mind that may have no chance of being reality by piecing a few unrelated items or instances together. I try to immediately push them out of my mind but once it is there it is there.
I really need to turn the focus on my relationship with my kids and onto myself. I do not do a bad job of this, but I still find time to let my mind wander. I will admit that during the time since she moved out I filled my time and kept my mind busy with the wrong types of things (going out to drinking with friends) this was fine for the immediate time but the following days were not good mentally.
I do have activities that I fill time with now, but i think the beginning was not used in the best fashion I just delayed dealing with the initial process.
I am open to suggestions
I dont have the kids this weekend so I am trying to figure out a 2 day trip to take just to get away. I need to avoid the weekend and just hanging out with friends at bars. I want to experience something different. Need to also make sure it is not something we have done together as I do not want any memories popping in the way.
Will update once i think of something.
otw
You should do something you want to do! Don't worry about past memories because you are creating new ones.
I know I have a hard time answering the question of "what do I want to do?" because I spent so much time doing what she wanted bc I just wanted to be with her. And this is probably not fair to say. We liked a lot of the same things I don't remember a time where I was given the option to just choose what we were doing. I guess it's another example of my passivity.
Whatever you do make sure to have a blast
G
I understand and I am just trying to figure out what to do.
I wish I had the answer to Azzorks question. Even tonight she didn't call the kids to say good night again. I definitely suspect OM now. there is really no other reason for a mother to not think of her children except being wrapped up in the newness of something. Makes me sick to my stomach to be honest
I have been doing fairly well with almost NC for January.. It is hurting me but I think I have to do it to try to get healthy for myself and kids. I know I have had the urge to date just for the companionship and the feel of having someone of the opposite sex interested in what I have to say or just some attention.
I then second guess this and think it is possibly an awful move.
I focus a lot on my children when I am with them and we have a blast but also find that is when she is on my mind most. I need to kick this somehow.
Remember it is about you not her. Keep you head on straight and try to power through those darker times. Figure out something you can do in those moments that will be good for you.
thanks Mahhty,I am searching for a way bad right now because I hate this feeling. I am not saying that I need her back and cant do this but I need these feelings of missing her to go away.
What do you truly enjoy? In those darker times do that.
When things are super fresh and upsetting, I do one of 4 things...
1 Play with the kids and turn off the phone
2 Go Kayaking
3 Go Lifting
4 Journal or Rant here
Hey OTW,
I too have had those feeling of wanting to connect with other woman, but then I asked my self why am I feeling like that? Am I only happy when I am with someone? Can I only be happy if a women is near me?
Of course not. We are strong men that can be happy on our own doing what we like when we want to. We don't need someone else in our lives to be happy. I think only when we are at that point truly then we can allow another person in to our lives.
So i need to do an update here.
I am sure everyone that has been checking in on me knows after the holidays I had a difficult time.
I was really looking for a way to get over this feeling. I decided to book another IC appointment and a DB coach session. I hadnt had either in a while so while i had to catch both of them up on a lot, i quickly turned to them and said I need help getting this feeling gone and moving forward.
Now I really didnt get any never heard before advice but for some reason I feel completely different.
They both agreed with me going the no contact route. I must say this has been a real difference. I know i was scared to try it but what a difference.
My mind will still wander to her now and then but i quickly dismiss it and change my thoughts.
I have been reading a lot of posts here from different people I chime in on and other that i just follow. I have seen a big trend of guys for a fact trying to hold on way to much. If they are in house still or not. there is a lot of holding on to any little occurrence like it is making a difference. People have been giving them great advice for a while but not catching it.
I must admit I was exactly the same. Trying to be overly nice when we were around each other, looking for ways to interact, etc..
This may be fine at some point but for those of us stuck and cant really grasp it is gone, no matter how much we type we know it is, I have some advice. It is nothing that hasnt been said before but maybe do it to an extreme to make it help.
Go as much no contact as you can. When i say this challenge yourself to a set period of time. I know those that live in the same house will say well we live together. I hate to tell you, if you really wanted to do it you could. It is all about making different choices about your day and routines.
I know this may not be popular, but when you do this you will have nothing to do but get yourself busy and you will have to force yourself to avoid interactions. This has made such a difference to me.
I came on the boards to read today after the weekend and wanted to comment on many threads to get your head out of your a** and let her go. I dont want to be harsh because believe I know what you are feeling but you have to.
To the people like Sandi, Azzork, Max, and many others, you have no idea how different your words look to me today. I kind of laughed at myself.
I still would love for my family to be healed, but right now I dont care what she is doing I am thinking about me and my kids. I am thinking about our lives and what we are going to be doing. It actually feels great.
I would like to expand further when i can put it in better words.
Otw, I am so glad you are feeling better. Sometimes we just have to reach a certain point before it "sinks in." I agree with you about not watching every little thing. That was making me crazy too. I have recently dropped the rope and come to the same realization as you, without going no-contact but I think that would have helped me if I had done that sooner.
I am so glad you are doing better!
Fo
thanks for commenting. I was reading yours earlier and saw that you seemed to be in a great place.
I think the NC was very scary and in the beginning for me it was very hard, but once i got past a week. I am now fine.
The funny thing is that i have had to see her twice for kids exchanges. I dont really acknowledge her at all. I focus on the kids. the only time i acknowledge her when we are leaving, I look up with a big smile and say see ya.
The looks that I am getting from her are priceless though. I dont know if she is pissed, confused, happy or what, but I really dont care. There is no way I could continue living like i was, because honestly, I wasnt living!
I think you are right about trying the NC, I wsih i did it earlier. It has made a world of difference.
We have S4 bday coming up and I have tickets for a Monster Truck show and I have one extra that I was considering offering to her, but there is no chance right now. I am going to invite one of his friends instead.
I want to go on other peoples posts and stress this but I dont want to be pushy and maybe this extreme isnt right for all, but me it is helping great!
otw
Great job and great attitude. I am D'd and still in same house. Ouch! Weird! But you can do NC in same house. I have been able to do some of this not speaking to her for days at a time. I knew her schedule and adjusted mine to be away from the house when she was there. On days I had D4 I would pick her up at preschool, take her to dinner and ice cream getting home around 8pm. Just in time to put her to bed and go to bed myself. On the weekend I would make plans for D4 and I to be away from the house spending daddy daughter time. Not telling WXW what we were doing, not concerned with what she was doing. Just being the best dad I could be while staying away from WXW.
It is difficult but doable.
I hear you G. Very doable. I wish I tried when we lived together. I wouldn't have chased for so long probably.
Looking at you latest posts and thinking about your responses. They are very intelligent. I think a lot of people here would love for their wives to say the things yours did. But what would happen? A little time goes by and maybe you would be the one leaving or her again. A lot of icing to be done there and she doesn't seem willing yet.
Great job on taking care of you and ensuring a better future.
Thanks otw. That's all we can do is take care of ourselves and our children. Moving forward and if our WW are able to catch up, great. If not we can't wait for them
G
I agree 100%. Really nothing more to sAy. I am actually feeling happy lately. Very weird feeling!
Just a quick update
still on my No contact route. Quick one two word responses when W texts about something regarding kids. No verbal talks.
Me and kids had a good few days together. They really are so intelligent and a true blessing. Yes they can be a handful and for some reason dont hear things i say until the third time! But I actually am so grounded because of them. Just found myself laughing hard with them at dinner last night. We went to a mexican restaurant and they were asking me how to say everything and anything in spanish. Then they started pointing out words and asking what they mean so I just started making stuff up. they were dying laughing.
Going to take them to a campground when we are back together this weekend. We go there a lot and used to as a family but during the in house separation, it was really me and the kids having a blast there together so we will keep going.
Have a couple days to catch on house cleaning, and look into doing some things for myself. I have a nice list to take care of.
I know a lot of people here talk about facebook and how it is tough to have, well i never had one before. So i decided to sign up. I of course immediately got W as a suggestion and deleted that one! LOL. I am enjoying the catch up with people i havent thought about in a while. fairly interesting.
Did think about W a bit this morning, but I was able to redirect thoughts fairly quickly.
Anyway all for now.
Well my no contact was broken! She tricked me! Lol
I was face timing with kids and all
Of the sudden she had the phone telling me about some music lessons she looked into for the kids and trying to make sure I was ok with it. I listened and tried to look at her but really didn't want to. I told her it sounded great and just let me know then back to he kids.
I feel this could have been emailed but whatever. Back on my no contact January!
otw, sounds like you are really doing well. Keep being awesome. Do you feel you are getting the desired results with your NC strategy? If you are how would you know?
So just an update.
Not much on the front of the W to discuss. I have stuck to my no contact fairly well. She has snuck in a few questions to me that i responded with one or two word answers. Seems she has stuck to my method of communication necessary kids stuff through email. S4 bday is in 2 weeks and we had to coordinate a party. I was picking kids up one day and she said i heard S4 say he wants to do his party at xx place. I said yes, I was going to call this week. She looked at me puzzled and said call for what? I said to see availability. I am not sure why she asked like she did, maybe because she usually did that sort of thing or actually i really dont know.
Anyway I took care of the set up and emailed her. She took on the invitations and communicated to me through email about.
I have actually really started coming out of my shell a bit when I am out with friends. I have typically been a very social person around people i know, but i can also be considered quiet. I have had a history of people interpreting this quietness as rude or stuck up. I wish people knew what really goes on in the head of an actual introvert!
So i have stepped out and been more social. I have had a lot of response from females actually. The initial contact is very nice but then if they want to maybe take things further to hang out one on one I find myself stopping or feeling that I am crossing a line that i am not ready to. Maybe it is just not letting go of hope enough yet but things are slowly coming around.
I must admit immediately after BD when wife was telling me all of her reasons we were not right for each other and I was scrambling for ways to prove her wrong, i took up dance lessons. W has danced her entire life and teaches, she said this is something she wanted to focus on in her life. Which she actually hasnt but that is another story. Anyway after I realized things were not progressing and recognized I was just doing it for her I stopped going.
I have decided I am going again. I like the idea of knowing what I am doing on the dance floor and now going for myself. I think it is a huge step for me.
Last few things is I noticed I have been very low on patience when dealing with the kids the last week. I recognized this and I am making a conscious effort to fix this. Yes they are kids and need to be set straight, but i can do a better job. Sometimes I forget how hard this has to be on them. I could see my daughter visibly upset last night while we were facetiming. I could hear W in the background just spewing on them and I said to myself, that will not be me.
The of course last night I had dreams flooded with W for some reason. One was awful and I woke up, then the next was more pleasant. No matter how much i try to block her she finds a way to creep in!
that is all for now.
Those dreams yesterday have continued. I spent another night dreaming of her. these were good though. we were working on things together.
then she didn't call kids this morning before school. gets me spinning.
time to get busy and push her out of my mind today.
ughh
The time is getting longer in between these happenings but I need them gone.
It's hard to push them out of our minds, isn't it? I'm glad I don't have her invading my dreams. But yesterday a work colleague who doesn't know what's going on said she actually had a dream about us. Something silly. I was glad her office doesn't know what's going on.
Today I am really going to focus on NOT thinking about her all day.
the mind is a funny thing, no matter how hard you try it does what it wants!
WTH!
three nights in a row! I have tried to block her out of my everyday mind so she is creeping into my subconscious! Very sneaky this W of mine!
I cant remember the dreams from last night, but i know it woke me up at one point.
I have had dreams the last couple days too. Not sure what to tell you, other than it stinks like the rest of this.
Good luck and have a great day!
Thanks D.
I am heading into a weekend without the kids. I have a good amount of stuff planned out. Weather may be a little shaky but i am going o make the best of it!
I need some help bad here..
Back story. I have suspected my W of seeing someone from a local minor league hockey team for a little while now.
Started when my mother told me about a Facebook picture of her at a hockey game. We haven't gone in years to one, she didn't have interest anymore. It made me start thinking and mind reading into things. At xmas she bought S4 a couple hockey items. He has never shown interest in this or even mentioned it. D7 said she caught W face timing some guy one night. which would make sense that he would be out of town and they could not see each other.
Now tonight, i was trying to call the kids and had to eventually message W to speak them. She took a while responding and i started looking at the timing of everything and I said to myself, i bet she took them to a hockey game. Finally get a text back from her saying we are at hockey game, will have them call on way home.
I am furious. Not at the fact that she could be dating this person, but at the fact that she is taking kids around this person even if it is indirectly.
They are very smart and when she does eventually introduce them down the road they will put this together.
She has only been out of the house 2.5 months and the kids are in no way ready to be meeting anyone involved in either of our lives.
I don't know what to do right now. I would have hoped with kids this young we would discuss how introducing someone to them should be handled. even if they don't meet tonight, they will eventually put 2 and 2 together.
I know some could say i don't know for sure but there is too much there to brush this off.
what do i do?
Otw, first of all, you might be jumping to conclusions. You are still NC - or as NC as possible with kids?
Maybe send an email and just say "For the sake of the children's emotional well being, I would like to consult with a child therapist to get some guidance on how to introduce the children to potential significant others when the time comes. Would you be willing to listen to dr. so-and-so's recommendation?"
I really am just guessing here. Leave it open and non-accusatory. For all you know, she might think you are starting to date and that could get her thinking.
i guess. i know i have no real hard evidence, but the writing is on the wall with this. I pray i am wrong because i can actually not stop her from doing anything. and will this just make matters worse if i bring it up.
i am going a thousand directions with this. I am trying to just get busy with something and let some time pass. as we all know the initial of anything is so hard
O, this is all so hard. Hang in there, you are doing well with the NC. That is huge progress.
I just would really like some other opinions if i should bring it up or not?
I have calmed down some but i am still very angry about it.
i have not brought anything up. At this point I don't see myself doing it.
She was in my dreams again last night. Very nice dreams, she was showing interest in me.
I kind of woke up happy, angry, and bummed out about it. I am very curious why so many dreams with her lately.
I might speak to IC about this.
Otw. I went through that for about a week last month. Just when I was getting very good at detaching, there he was in my dreams. Very good dreams too. I think its our brains just trying to process what has happened. I wonder if they dream about us? Probably not a good thing to wonder.
i tried for a long time to figure out what she was thinking or feeling. It would drive me crazy.
I have read a couple of the vets here stories and after the have reconciled the spouse told them all of the pain they were actually in and how much they thought of them. I would love to think that in my situation but she is a professional not letting anything on!