I am new here. Never thought that I would need a website like this, but here I am. I wish I had come here 4 years ago but I guess can't change the past. Here's my story. I would REALLY appreciate any help that you can give me.
I was engaged to my high school sweetheart when I was right out of high school. I broke off the engagement and married someone else. He also married. Neither marriage worked out (my husband was abusive and his wife had addiction issues). After 18 years, he contacted me out of the blue. We began talking, eventually fell back in love and got married about 2 years later. If I'm really being honest, neither of us were divorced when we began talking and we lived about 5 hrs apart.
When we got married, we both had custody of our children from our previous marriages. Blending families did NOT go well. He was a control freak and was also very jealous, insecure and even paranoid. He didn't show those traits before we married. It always seemed to be him and his kids before anyone else. He made sure they got more than my children and always took their side rather than standing by me. I am more of an easy going, passive, logical, problem solving kind of a girl. With that being said, we fought and argued often. He would twist things and see things that weren't always there and would start griping at me about made up problems that weren't even happening. My response would be to explain to him and try to make him understand the truth. Now I realize that he was just pushing me away to see if I would leave or stay. He needed the constant validation. To me it felt like he was constantly accusing me of things that I wasn't doing. Eventually I got tired of being called a liar, accused of chatting with people online, cheating, etc, etc, etc and I told him I was going to move out. He apologized and Said he would change. Another year passed...he never made any effort to change. So, I rented an apartment and moved out with my kids.
We have been separated for almost 4 years now. We went to marriage counseling together for about 4 months right after I moved. He would listen and seemed to be getting it while in the office, but never did any of the work that was suggested of him. He did change for a couple of weeks and wanted me to move back in. I told him that I would but first I just needed to see that the change was going to last and that he wasn't going to go right back to his old ways. He took that as a rejection and immediately stopped trying and became more resentful as time passed. I really did love him and missed him terribly. After we had been separated for about 2 years I told him I wanted to move back in. He basically made a list of demands I would never agree to which just told me that he didn't want me there. Another year went by and again I tried to move back in and same thing happened. I then asked him to move in with me. He also rejected that. If you ask him he will say he never rejected me, I just didn't want it bad enough to agree to his terms so it was my fault. Sigh... Let me clarify one thing, when I say separated that basically meant that I was at his house from the time he got off work until he went to bed every night, spent at least 8 hours a day with him on his days off, had sex with him twice a week, and then came to my apartment to SLEEP every night after seeing him. He didn't give me any money or support at all during that time either.
About 7 weeks ago, out of the blue, he told me that he wasn't happy and didn't know if he wants to be married anymore. Says he loves me, but not sure if he wants to be with me. Then he asked me for "space." I was upset and tried to just keep seeing him and calling as usual. He seemed to be getting irritated that I kept coming over. Then one night he didn't want me to come over. I passed by several times and he didn't get home till 1AM on a work day (usually in bed before 9pm!). When he got home he gave me a very unbelievable story so I began looking at phone records. I was absolutely devastated to find he was talking to a woman for HOURS at a time. I immediately confronted him and of course he says they are just talking. I know he has seen her though. When I would go to his house he would roll his eyes when I would walk in the door. He won't kiss me and gets mad if I sit right beside him or touch him in any way. He hardly ever answers my phone calls and never texts me. I went for a full 2 weeks without seeing or contacting him and he didn't contact me either. Tonight I went over there and when I knocked on the door I could hear him move the doorknob to make sure it was locked, but he wouldn't open the door. I guess he was hoping I would think he wasn't home. I felt so humiliated and pathetic. I KNOW I have panicked and done EVERY single thing to push him away farther. I've been clingy, needy, crying, begging, pleading, apologizing, trying to convince him, etc. If there were a checklist of what NOT to do, I make sure to check each one off every time I see him. I just can't seem to stop myself! PLEASE HELP ME!!!!! I know that I feel panicked and desperate, but I honestly don't want him to know that and I can't seem to stop. While we were married he isolated me from everyone and everything. I just sit at home because he would get mad if he passed by and my car wasn't here. So, now he won't talk to me and I don't have anyone else to turn to. I really do love him and want to make this work out, but he seems to only be interested in HER. I just keep hitting a stone wall every time I try to approach him. It nearly kills me every time I call and he won't answer, or when I go over and he rolls his eyes when he sees me...or worse yet is when he hids his truck around back so I won't think he's there. I'm just basically tired of this nonsense and want him to WAKE UP and knock it off! CAN ANYONE HELP ME?
Sorry this is so long. As I said, I haven't had anyone else to talk to about this. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi MB, firstly welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you find yourself here - but in your situation, you're in the right place for sure. There are many wise people posting here, including vets who have been around the block and bought the T shirt.
First things first - your H has met someone else. From what you say, he is having an EA and possibly a PA with her. Given your S arrangements, he may not regard this as infidelity as such. However, you were clearly still in a R of sorts during the S period. My guess is things heated up with this woman a couple of months ago when you also got the BD.
Given all of the above, the important thing is not to panic. Initial steps - have you read DR or DB yet? If not, place an order. I prefer DR as it is newer and deals more with infidelity than DB does. Also, if you can afford DB coaching, that may be worth a whirl too. I haven't had coaching, but many here have and I'm sure would recommend it.
For now, I would focus on being NC with him until you can get yourself to a steadier place. Believe me, that if he is infatuated with this OW, there is little you can do for the time being anyway. The sooner you accept this 'for now' the better and you can start doing some of the 'right stuff' and focus on the longer term.
What is the right stuff? A big thing I pick up from you is - I have no life unless I'm doing stuff with him and I can't go out because he'd be mad if my car wasn't there. Well, here's the thing. He just fired you, so you do get to go out and do things if you want to. He's doing that, and if you doing the same gets up his nose, well so be it.
So, focus on looking after yourself - eating, sleeping, gentle exercise, other soothing activites. And also start having a think about other things you would like to do 'as if' he were never going to be in your life again. This is called acting 'as if.' You don't do any of this to get a rise out of him - you are purely adapting to your 'new life' and moving forward as a 'single' person for now. So, how would single you like to spend her time? What would she do, who with? What have you put on the back burner because of your R with him? Dancing? Cooking? Keep fit? Education class? It's time to really have a think about what you want now.
But, I just want to save our R! I hear you respond. Yes, I know that - but put yourself in his shoes. Which is going to be more attractive to him? Tearful, pleading and begging? Trying to get him to open the door to you? Or, growing in confidence you, meeting new people and taking up new interests? Understand?
All of this is called GAL - getting a life. GAL helps start to shift your focus from those things you can't control (him and his infatuation with OW) onto things you can control - you. You get custody of you here, so what are you going to do with her? GAL and acting 'as if' both help re-attach you to yourself and your own life and start to detach from him and 'his life.'
Another area to have a think about is 180s. In your post above - I'm picking up vibes of control/being right - I just wanted to make him see etc.. This (along with other areas) are things to start thinking about and (in any interactions with him) responding differently. But the big thing to do in the short term is completely stop any begging, pleading, crying, ILYs - all of which are pretty unattractive when he's feeling the way he is about an OP.
Also, start having a think about your contribution to the M ending. You posted quite a bit about the improvements he needed to make and didn't. How could you have been a better spouse do you think? How would you want to conduct yourself in a future R - either with him or with someone else? You may want to have a think about codependency too. From what you post, you sound pretty codependent to me (no offense intended, many of us here are recovering codependents.) Many people on the forum recommend the 'codependent no more' book.
Please take your time (time is a gift you will come to see) and carefully read and think about the posts you receive. Also take some time to read and think about Cadet's homework. Maybe think about some self-care activities too - writing a journal, meditation, yoga perhaps...
And do keep posting. The more you interact with the forum, the more help you will receive.
Take care xx
Is there ANY chance your first husband would take you back. Be honest, he wasn't really abusive (no offense, but wayward spouses always justify and rationalize their infidelity by recharacterizing their former imperfect but OK marriages as "abusive" and "loveless" when they were perfectly fine and repairable marriages at the time). That would be the best option for you and your kids. If that were still an option, I'd be glad to help you here.
I have never seen a happy marriage born from an affair in real life (my wife and I mentor marriages for a large church for nearly 8 years so we've worked with 1000's of couples). My theory is the selfishness and entitlement that led you both to cheat on your former spouses is the same selfishness and entitlement that makes addressing the problems in your affair marriage very difficult to overcome. Blending families is difficult for anyone but forcing your children (and his) to live with the new spouse that played a part in the destruction of their family just makes "blending" a million times harder.
My advice - divorce your affair partner ~ go back to your 1st husband if you can and if you can't stay single and focus all your attention, time and emotions on your children (meaning don't date) until they are adults (at least age 18).
Hi MB-
You have a really tough complicated situation, and I'm so sorry you are in pain. You are in the right place for great support and some brainstorming of ways to use DB tools to bring you and your husband closer together. I'm not selling here, but with all the twists and turns you have here, you might want to look into DB coaching. Just a thought.
Sotto gave you great support and advice. That's a wonderful place to start.
Having dealt with previous abuse and addiction in your families, you have special issues for learning to best care for each other. Love is worth preserving.
Wishing you all the best-
-sg
"First things first - your H has met someone else. From what you say, he is having an EA and possibly a PA with her. Given your S arrangements, he may not regard this as infidelity as such. However, you were clearly still in a R of sorts during the S period. My guess is things heated up with this woman a couple of months ago when you also got the BD."
[color:#3333FF]I'm sure he is having a PA with the OW. Makes me nauseated every time I think about it, which is CONSTANTLY. I am sure that he had to know this was infidelity considering that he would get mad if he thought I didn't have my ring on, constantly made remarks about me "cheating" on him (I wasn't) and wanted to hear me deny it so he would feel better, and we had sex twice a week the entire time we were separated. I was ALWAYS with him. Always!
"Given all of the above, the important thing is not to panic. Initial steps - have you read DR or DB yet? If not, place an order. I prefer DR as it is newer and deals more with infidelity than DB does. Also, if you can afford DB coaching, that may be worth a whirl too."
I have not read either book yet, but they are now at the top of my list! I have been online reading steadily since this happened 7 weeks ago. That's all I do is read. Would love to do DB coaching, but there is no way I can afford to do that.
"For now, I would focus on being NC with him until you can get yourself to a steadier place. Believe me, that if he is infatuated with this OW, there is little you can do for the time being anyway."
[color:#3333FF] I know that I need to start the NC, but I have really been dragging my feet. I am so scared that once I initiate it, he won't ever contact me again and I just can't stand that thought. It sends me in a panic just thinking about sitting around waiting on a phone call that will never come.
"So, how would single you like to spend her time? What would she do, who with? What have you put on the back burner because of your R with him? Dancing? Cooking? Keep fit? Education class? It's time to really have a think about what you want now."
[/color] I didn't put anything on hold because of our relationship. I had my first child when I was 19 and my husband (now my EX) was no help at all. So, I raised kids, put myself through school, then worked and took care of kids. That has been my life. My youngest just turned 18, but I have spent most of my life working and taking care of my children. Never had time or money for myself....and, still don't I guess.
"But, I just want to save our R! I hear you respond. Yes, I know that - but put yourself in his shoes. Which is going to be more attractive to him? Tearful, pleading and begging? Trying to get him to open the door to you? Or, growing in confidence you, meeting new people and taking up new interests? Understand?"
[color:#3333FF] LOL! Are you a psychic? Because clearly, you were reading my mind! That IS the only thing that I want to do. It's on my mind constantly. And, I did all the crying, begging, pleading, promising, etc...all it did was made him tearful as well, then he stopped answering my phone calls and began rolling his eyes at me when I came over. Now, he just gets irritated and tries to ignore me. That's very heartwarming for me, NOT!
"All of this is called GAL - getting a life. GAL helps start to shift your focus from those things you can't control (him and his infatuation with OW) onto things you can control - you. You get custody of you here, so what are you going to do with her? GAL and acting 'as if' both help re-attach you to yourself and your own life and start to detach from him and 'his life.' "
[/color] But, that's just it. I HAVE no life and I don't know where to find one! I have actually taken a shower, fixed my hair, put on makeup and nice clothes, driven to town and couldn't even think of one place to go. I do NOT know what to do with myself. I know that sounds pathetic, but it's actually true. I have no idea where to go or what to do because I haven't ever really done that before.
"Also, start having a think about your contribution to the M ending.
From what you post, you sound pretty codependent to me (no offense intended, many of us here are recovering codependents.)"
[color:#3333FF] No, I certainly don't think I was perfect by any stretch of the imagination. The problem is that I think he is a narcissistic person and so I spent most of the time we've been married trying to figure out how to do what he wanted without making him mad at me while he constantly changed the rules and what he wanted. I should have started reading self help books when the problems started instead of when he started cheating. If I had learned more about how to deal with his personality type, I might have been better able to comunicate with him better. I also wish I had NEVER moved out. Things got so much worse after that because as time went on, he resented me more and more for not being there. I think that had a lot to do with him not wanting me to move back when I kept trying to. And Codependent, absolutely. I am not offended at all, and I think I probably am codependent .
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. I know I have a lot of work to do and am just really scared to move at this point because no matter what I do, I don't want it to be the wrong thing and make everything worse. I just feel like I'm standing here with my feet frozen to the floor and don't know which way to try to step.
Edit - needs work on html - text goes between brackets Cadet
Is there ANY chance your first husband would take you back. Be honest, he wasn't really abusive (no offense, but wayward spouses always justify and rationalize their infidelity by recharacterizing their former imperfect but OK marriages as "abusive" and "loveless" when they were perfectly fine and repairable marriages at the time). That would be the best option for you and your kids. If that were still an option, I'd be glad to help you here.
I have never seen a happy marriage born from an affair in real life (my wife and I mentor marriages for a large church for nearly 8 years so we've worked with 1000's of couples). My theory is the selfishness and entitlement that led you both to cheat on your former spouses is the same selfishness and entitlement that makes addressing the problems in your affair marriage very difficult to overcome. Blending families is difficult for anyone but forcing your children (and his) to live with the new spouse that played a part in the destruction of their family just makes "blending" a million times harder.
My advice - divorce your affair partner ~ go back to your 1st husband if you can and if you can't stay single and focus all your attention, time and emotions on your children (meaning don't date) until they are adults (at least age 18).
Ther is NO chance that I would ever take my first husband back. Aside from the fact that he threatened to kill me repeatedly throught our divorce that took almost 2 years to complete, I WAS being honest when I said that he was abusive. I got to have sex with him twice a week as well and it didn't matter if I wanted to or not. For the last 4 years of our marriage, he would just hold me down and take what he wanted. I believe they call that rape. I would NEVER go back to him! I only stayed becaus I had 4 children and didn't know how to get away from him. I was also being honest about my current husband's ex wife. She was and still is an alcoholic that gets drunk every single day of her life. I might have thought he exaggerated that fact, but I have heard his kids talk about it many times. I know that I cheated on my first husband, and technically that makes me a "cheater." But, I can assure you that is not really who I am. The ONLY reason that I was able to do that was because of how much I hated my ex, how desperate I felt at the time, and because my current husband and I already had a history from when we were younger. My first marriage was already dead. Nothing was ever going to make me want to be with him willingly ever again. He would force himself on me, then he would buy me something (usually food related) and leave it on the table for me. I felt like a prostitute that wasn't worth more than a candybar or a muffin. There wasn't even an apology that came along with it. There are just some things that you really can't recover from. My current husband felt the same thing about his ex. He didn't leave her because he didn't want to disrupt the kids. As far as the kids go, my divorce took 2 years to finalize and had been final for over a year before they met my current husband. So, they didn't have a problem with him being in our lives. His children didn't have nearly that much time before meeting me so it was a much bigger deal to them. Not sure if any of that really matters at this point because the youngest of the children just turned 18. Out of the 6 kids, 3 have already moved out, and the other 3 are in college and 2 of them will be moving out in less than a year and the last one probably a year after that. I know that we should have ended our marriages before starting anything. I have always felt badly for the way that I handled it, but I can't go back and chage it, so I just have to accept and acknowledge my behavior. I do regret having hurt both of our ex spouses and I have always admitted what I did and that it was wrong.
My current marriage has not been always been happy one, but that doesn't mean that we didn't have lots of good times or that it isn't possible for it to be happy. We came into it with lots of baggage and children coming between us. I know that he loves me and I still love him. I feel bad for him that he's having a hard time now and wish I could help him, but I know that I can't. None of this is even necessary. I tried to come back to him over 2 years ago, but he thought he had to "prove a point to me" because of his controlling way and it just didn't work out well. He has been in his MLC for probably a year and a half now and he was just pushed over the edge when his daughter moved out a couple of months ago. I know he won't listen to me so I can't help him, but I just don't want to lose him. Our kids are all grown now and this is supposed to be OUR time to be together, enjoy each other and grow closer together. It's not supposed to be the time for him to break my heart and run off with someone else that he barely even knows.
I feel like I have brought this on myself because of how I ended my first marriage as well as his. Like Karma coming back to get me because I deserve it. The thing is, I know that I actually AM a good person. I never think about myself, I always try to help others. I am a nurse, that's what I do...I have compassion for everyone, I take care of people and ask nothing in return. I give and give even if it means leaving nothing for myself. The thing is, at some point I feel like something should be for me. I'm tired of always taking care of everyone without anyone ever wanting to be there for me. I want that person to be my husband, I just don't know how to reach him. He is like a complete stranger to me now.
So, while I do appreciate your advice, it's just not something that I can do. If you can think of anything to help me save my current marriage, I would LOVE to hear any suggestions that you might have.
Thank you for responding to my post! I am really trying to pull myself together, but it's been very hard to even just stop crying. I'm pretty sure at this point everyone is trying to avoid me because they are tired of hearing me cry and talk about my husband. I have only told a few people because I don't want my family or coworkers to know. I would love to be able to do the DB coaching, but there's just no way that I could ever afford it. So, I will just have to learn all I can from everyone on here and read everything I can get my hands on while I wait for my husband to come to his senses.
Don't take this the wrong way but Standing is NOT waiting.
It's about moving forward and becoming the best YOU that you can be
I have been separated from my husband for a long time already. So, I was wondering how Sandi's Rules (aka 180) and/or Going dark is supposed to work? I mean, if I'm already out of the house and my husband doesn't want to see me, how will he ever know about any changes that I have or will make? How will he ever notice if he doesn't want to see me or talk to me? And, yes, I know that I'm supposed to do it for me and not to get him back. But, I also know that when people do the 180 or going dark, they hope their spouse will notice and become curious, then start communicating again. How can it happen that way if there's no contact for him to see the change?
Please stick to one thread until 100 posts, threads merged.
MB
There is nothing wrong with it's crying i have been doing this most days since being told my marriage was over
Focus on you do some of the things that make you happy
Become the best you
Take care
Ghost
Hi MB, from what you've posted there is plenty he would notice if you start GAL for yourself....your car being gone from the drive for one. What helped me was to think - hey, he already left me and is in a R with someone else - what do I have to lose by DBing, then I tried to follow the process to a tee.? Don't let fear hold you back my friend....or finances....maybe start having a look at local meetups, support groups, leisure centre, library events, volunteering - anything that gets you out and about, doing new things and interacting with others...
Good for you with the hair and make up done. So, next time what will you do when you go into town? I love charity shops (cheap) and sometimes I just grab a coffee and read my book (cheap too...)
Maybe think about some mini goals to get you moving forward...next week I'm going to get dressed, do my hair and make up and....go into town and do x..
Baby steps...and remember, there may not be that much you can do about him in the short term. But you can a) not make it worse and b) do things for yourself. These are both within your control...and that's where to focus.
xx
Thank you for responding to my post! I am really trying to pull myself together, but it's been very hard to even just stop crying. I'm pretty sure at this point everyone is trying to avoid me because they are tired of hearing me cry and talk about my husband. I have only told a few people because I don't want my family or coworkers to know. I would love to be able to do the DB coaching, but there's just no way that I could ever afford it. So, I will just have to learn all I can from everyone on here and read everything I can get my hands on while I wait for my husband to come to his senses.
I get it. I so hate these waves in life when our struggles show in our tears (mostly women, I guess). It doesn't mean we're weak and we've gone under, though. Even if there are folks that want to interpret it that way. The tears are just washing it all away. Letting it out and letting it go.
For awhile I was doing well with yoga, mindfulness and breathing. I stopped due to an injury, but now I'm committed again, even though I can't do all of the same things due to the injury. But I can breath in and out and pay attention to it. It's helping. Maybe it would help you too.
You clearly are a strong woman. I hate that you are having to do it again. But you've got this. You have the love within you for yourself to be your authentic self and treat yourself well.
So I'm wishing you a pain-free day. Joy. And to feel all the love that your true family and friends have for you.
Hi MB, from what you've posted there is plenty he would notice if you start GAL for yourself....your car being gone from the drive for one. What helped me was to think - hey, he already left me and is in a R with someone else - what do I have to lose by DBing, then I tried to follow the process to a tee.? Don't let fear hold you back my friend....or finances....maybe start having a look at local meetups, support groups, leisure centre, library events, volunteering - anything that gets you out and about, doing new things and interacting with others...
Good for you with the hair and make up done. So, next time what will you do when you go into town? I love charity shops (cheap) and sometimes I just grab a coffee and read my book (cheap too...)
Maybe think about some mini goals to get you moving forward...next week I'm going to get dressed, do my hair and make up and....go into town and do x..
Baby steps...and remember, there may not be that much you can do about him in the short term. But you can a) not make it worse and b) do things for yourself. These are both within your control...and that's where to focus.
xx
Beautiful advice.
Thank you SG! The last 4 or 5 days have been so lonely and sad. Not sure why. I mean nothing happened any differently, I just can't seem to get out of this gloom and dooom lonely funk that I seem to have slipped back into. I just so want him to hug me and tell me, even if it means nothing. It would at least give me peace for a few minutes.
Are you still married, separated, single? How have things worked out for you? I know that I'm in the newbie section here so I haven't really seen anything from anyone that actually worked things out with their spouses by doing the 180 and going dark. Does it work very often?
I wish you a happy and peaceful day as well. It's good to know that I'm not alone in this, even though I feel like I am.
MB
In the resource section of the first post that I gave to you is newbie resources it has a link for Mozza's thread which has success stories.
Db'ing works I am sure.
I know that feeling.
I'm a long time DBer...came here years after a divorce in the middle of a post divorce relationship. DB and Michele personally saved my life and sanity. And I got the guy back. That was a dating relationship that needed not to continue.
Then I met G and DB trained me, and has been my tool. G and I have been engaged, domestic partners, living between two small residences not too far away because of the economy (can't sell them) and really unique family circumstances that create a web with the economy. My daughter and grandson have moved back in and he has a special needs son that lives with him most often in the residence he maintains. We are together back and forth. It has been a very loving and nurturing relationship.
We had a death in his family, and the demons inside both of us came loose. (Beetlejuice 3x). We hit below the belt. Dont do that.
So we shall see.
It's really best to ride the storms. Keep doing more of what works. (I'm a real bad example right now. I've been a great example, I've been a bad example. Be good). Now I have to pick myself back up, dust off my shame for my bad behavior, and go back to moving positively forward.
On the plus side, we both recognized our parts, both apologized, and we both still love each other, we each said that.
There are pluses and minuses to telling family and friends your business. But everyone has an opinion and wants you to follow their opinion. It's your own life.
So do better than me. I will go back to doing better than me.
Sgc
Sorry for the hijack MB,
I think how your relationships survive hard times is more important than what happens in good times.
Anyone can do well in good times, of course I am conflict avoidant so take that into account.
You are going to be fine.
Cadet-
You are the best ever, in many ways. I appreciate you!
sg
I have been having a rough few days, not really sure why because nothing had changed. I try to distract myself, but nothing seems to work. Around 1AM I drove my son's girlfriend home- it's cold and I didn't want him to have to take her on hid motorcycle. Anyway, as I was on my way back home, I passed my husband's house. His vehicle was in the driveway which always gives me a little sense of peace. I got a strange feeling though, so I decided to take a look. There's a dirt road that goes behind his house. I turned like I was going to go down that road and just let my lights shine down that way for a couple of seconds. That was all I needed to see the light reflect off of the vehicle that was parked behind his house. Seriously?! I thought I was going to be sick right there. It's amazing how little it seems to take to completely turn my world upside down AGAIN. She, the OW, doesn't even live here. She lives about 4 hrs away. I kept telling myself that she was probably some nice woman that just didn't know that he IS married. Makes me wonder why in the world she would park around in the grass behind his house then. I guess I was trying to make myself feel better by thinking that. Apparently, she is just some skank that doesn't mind sleeping with a married man in his wife's bed. ALL of my stuff is still over there....and he's sleeping with her right there in our room with my things around. Another knife through my heart. Not sure how many more of them I can take.
How many of you confronted the OW? I mean, I don't want to yell at her or threaten her or anything like that. I'm just talking about meeting them and simply asking them if they know that the man they are spending so much time talking to and hooking up with is a married man and that I am his wife. Then just see what her thoughts are about that. She might not even care (apparently she doesn't!), but what if she does? Or, perhaps telling her that he had an affair on his first wife that ended that marriage. Now, he's having an affair on me that, unfortunately, will probably end his second marriage. What does that mean down the road for HER? I have been SOOO on the fence about contacting her. I think the only thing that has stopped me is that I'm not sure how HE will take it. I mean, clearly I have enough problems with him on my own. Don't want to make anything worse. Can anyone share their experiences with me on whether or not the contacted the other person, and how that worked out for them. And, how did the spouse take it?
MB, if you confront OW you will put your H in a position to have to defend her. You don't want that.
Listen to Beckyb, you don't want to do that. The other person doesn't care for many reasons, because if they did then they wouldn't be involved with a married person in first place, no? Typically, the "other" has some serious self-esteem, confidence, insecurity, etc, issues. They look for love, acceptance, and attention in any place they can get it, even if it is destructive. I posted a story about a very good friend of mine who got involved with a married woman in Focus22's thread - he had insecurity issues and she was a serial cheater. I would be willing to bet that the other always things that they will be the one to change the leopard's spots...
How many of you confronted the OW?
-MB-
Heres the thing; the OW is not really the problem here. Her existence stems from all of the issues that plagued your marriage. Let's say you do confront her and "scare her off". That doesnt mean that:
1) your H will choose to come back to you
2) There wont just be OW2 or OW3 or so on.
Honestly, any effort you put into OW and the relationship that he has with OW is a complete waste. All that will do is get you hurt. Take the other night. You drove by his house to check for her car and saw it there. Who got hurt by that? It wasnt H....it wasnt OW.....it was only YOU.
Leave it alone. Take your focus off of them and put it on you.
Hi MB, I agree with Azzork. You are putting that knife through your own heart with the choices you are making. You already know he is seeing someone, but you drove on back there and made yourself feel awful. I do understand the compulsive urge to snoop, but truly we learn that (once an A is confirmed already) the rest just makes us feel awful.
So, slow down here and please go back to my initial post - read it, read it again and start to shift the focus on to you. Time spent focusing on him or her will be time poorly spent I guarantee.
So, firmly putting both H and OW to one side (where they belong) for now...how are you going to start your own journey towards healing my friend?
Hello MB,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I have to say that I agree with Sotto, Azzork, Spiff and Becky regarding contacting the OW. There just isn't an upside. You already know what is going on, why make yourself feel worse?
You mentioned that you would like to do the DB coaching, but funds are an issue. Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss options and how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
MB. You have great advice here.
If you confront her, it will likely backfire. I feel your pain. But it's YOU who are worth your energy, putting time into you, making you happy.
Do something that you have been wanting to do for yourself. Use some thought-stopping techniques. Just don't let yourself go there. I'm doing the same thing with you. I'm changing my mind every time it goes down the dark heart wrenching road. It isn't easy. Sometimes I'm crying. But then I make a plan. I bought some fabric to make some stockings. Thinking of going to see the Peanuts movie. Watched Beverly Hills Cop2 (I like stupid funny).
What I do mostly likely won't do it for you, but you get the idea. You know what works for you because you've done this before.
Make the next 15 minutes all yours. Only about you.
And then, maybe the next 15 minutes. You can do anything for 15 minutes.
This is such great advice I would second the fact that snooping of any kind does not help it does not help in the slightest
As has been said once you know or even if you do not know to go looking for thiings will only make it worse
Hi MB,
It is really sad that you find yourself here but on the other hand thanks to that decision you have a fighting chance to get some sanity into your life as well maybe get your R back.
I seriously recommend you read DR or DB. It answers a great many things and sort of helps fit the pieces of the jigsaw that is your life at the moment.
I have been a LBH and WH a few times and have been on both sides of the fence so often I felt like a leprechaun.
DB, the books and this forum have been of unimaginable help.
I have read your posts and can relate to a great many of your actions as can most here. Snooping, Crying, Begging, Focusing on S, etc. Because of this and having experienced the aftermath of doing them as well as the benefits of not doing them my first advice is slam the brakes on what you are doing. If your H is involved in a EA or PA none of this works and makes it worse. Consider this a tactical withdrawal to cut losses, regroup, asses damage and decide on next steps with a plan. The headless chicken scenario of dumped wife doesnt appeal to anyone, friends step back, new friends back off and the spouse strengthens the wall. At this stage dignity and self respect are very important. The fact you are here and opening up means you are strong and willing. How you do from now on depends if you are strong and willing enough.
A couple of pointers..
Snooping as everyone says will only get you hurt. If a scene or event confirms something you are hurt. If it looks curious you will screenwrite and make up a scenario to fit what you are seeing. NOT what is happening. If you see nothing suspicious you relax even though you could have missed the interesting part by minutes. Then when you see something suspicious again you get hurt, etc, etc. It is a never ending roller coaster ride. You dont need that, less now. You are too vulnerable which is what makes all the advice given hard to follow. Your primary instincts have kicked in and kicked out all logic and sense. It is like a withdrawal syndrome that you have to detox from. It takes time, effort and above all pain. Once you get through it things seem a little clearer.
In your posts you mentioned some stuff that made me think... seriously? You give him s3x, spend time with him and then go home to sleep and on top of that he accuses you of infidelity? And you take it? IMHO he does have control issues, insecurity issues but above all a huge ego factor. You have your work cut out. He is not a H that is going through a painful situation and without wanting it this happened. I think he went for it. He has obviously lost his respect for you and she is your substitute. Not your problem. He is. If you are to get him back, he has to change, do the 180. He has to be the one wanting you to come home. I still see that a long long way away. A bit like in a galaxy far far away. Main reason is that he has to want you. In order to do that you need to concentrate on next paragraph..
GAL is one of the most mentioned topics in any post you read. Probably also one of the most undervalued and misunderstood as well. Most LBS I read consider this to be spending tons of time with the kids, or at bridge games (eg) with the friends. In short go to safe places. IMHO I think this is a mistake for 2 basic reasons. 1) They are not really GAL, I think GAL in these situations is to do something new as well as current activities. New hobbies and stuff. 2) If your LBS knows you are in a safe place with friends they are relaxed. If on the other hand you get dressed up and go with friends to a bar, club or other social event where you will meet new people and also look the part... their a$$ maybe get a little itchy.
To me GAL is also about image and looking after yourself. Sandi mentions on looking attractive and there is a phrase here about being the best you can be and that only a fool would walk away. The problem is up to a certain point they are fools, lost or whatever and can walk away. In a way they have. By being a 2.0 you basically go on the market again (to put it bluntly). You have to be better person both physically (that does matter) as well as emotionally. At the moment you are a wreck and not attractive to anyone. If you look in the mirror would even a normal guy be interested in your current state? probably not so imagine someone who already has their fantasy woman and has no respect for you. How do you expect to turn the tables?
As some people have stated, go out do something selfish for you and you only. My first steps were going to the movies. I always wanted to go to movies with W but she never did so neither did I. I then decided fackit and started going on my own. Got dressed up, Chanel on and went to the late night session. After that had a bite and arrived early am. She thought I was seeing someone. From there I built up.
Depending on your social life pre BD and social skills these steps are different for everyone. You just need to know where you fit in and how to act.
Focus is important. Know what you want and how to get it. Here you will get great advice. Having said this, immediately stop focusing on what H is doing, you cannot do anything about it. If you do intervene it will be rejected and push him further away. Any step he does make must be of his own free will. he must want to come to you and not be forced. Here is where not only GAL but dropping the rope, etc come into play. If he is in a EAPA you have to let it ride out. While doing so focus on yourself and your life. You have heard the term Act as if ... the problem is that you do not have to act. As he is NOT there. So now decide what to do. Set yourself goals (also in book) and see them through. From experience it will be a handful and at the same time enlightening. As you begin to come out of this emotional Tsunami you will see things differently. This is called change. As with self change you will probably be the last person to see it or feel it but it is now out there. If you have done it correctly it will mean an improvement of you as a person and that will lead to other better things. Expect to fall down once in a while but from those falls we learn for next time and get tough.
Believe it or not you may also at some point look at your H and realize you do not want him as he is. A few months ago you would do anything for him but now see him in a different light and if he does not change then the MB 2.0 may start looking elsewhere. Note... it is NOT your job to change or fix him. Or even make him happy. That is controlling.
In your posts you seemed to have dedicated most of your life to everyone except the most important person which is you. If you have ever flown, you will know that in case of decompression parents should first put on the masks themselves and then their children, etc. This is for a reason. You needed time out for yourself to be there for everyone else. Unfortunately we know that never happens. You enter a tunnel and often lose track of time until you are derailed. You then look at your life and see what has become of the last xx years. Most realize how much has been lost in terms of dreams and happiness for the sake of the good. Here is where being a trekky I remember the wise words of Spock. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. This is so true but if everyone had that vision things would be different. So different. The fact you made that decision reflects on your generous character and determination which between you and me I find sexy in a woman. So you have a strong virtue you should use. As a result focus on yourself now you can. It will be hard when you have probably lived everyone elses life but your own. Start your own again. The difference is that all emotions will be yours to enjoy. Baby steps..
One important thing here MB... whatever you choose to do is about you. Moving forward or on is about not looking at the rear view mirror. Learn from the past to avoid mistakes in the present and future. Looking in the RVM means you lose track of the way forward and in some cases are scared to let go.
You mention that if you do go dark you will lose him. You have. Believe me, until the EAPA cools down he will not take notice. If you go out with a guy as just friends and your H sees you whilst still with the OW he will react badly. The thing with WH is they think they have the right to an OW but the W should be sitting in the sidelines. Nothing kicks a WH in the a$$ more than seeing his W with another guy. The ridiculous thing is that he thinks she is doing something wrong. For a guy, to see someone we have not cut off emotionally completely, with someone else really gets to the core. We think we have this god given right to play around but the W still has to be at home keeping the bed warm. As we all now, it does not work like that.
As for the OW, as Cadet once told me (great guy but should change his rank to a higher one or Jedi) the OP is a distraction and to work on R. He was right. So damn right. If things are great the OP can passby your S nose often but your S will only be interested in you. When things are not so great it is only a matter of time. In your case the problem is you, your H and your R. Not the OP. You do not know if she is a skank, a nice person with similar problems, a cold person out to replace you or someone normal who is being lied to by your H. It doesnt matter, what does is that he has emotionally replaced you with someone else. If you do your work and there is a shift, she will dump or get dumped and you will be the new focus.
I confronted OM twice. He was smug as it was over phone and then behind bank counter. So I told him I would wait for him outside place I knew he frequented. His face changed and couple of times I went he never turned up. W found out and was seriously worried. Old M would never have done that. I told her what happened and he never showed and she chose poorly (for this and other reasons). I told her I did not know if I was more offended on what she did than with who. I also told her not to flatter herself. it was not about her but him and me. It was about respect and messing with the W of someone you know. If it was a random guy I could live with that but he entered dangerous territory knowingly and I went darkside.
Anyhow, between us ... it felt cool but was admittedly stupid. Had he shown I would have probably ended up arrested but I was tired of showing the other cheek so went to kick a couple of butt cheeks. Son high fived me ... that was cool too... anyway ...
Another word to keep in mind ... patience. Emotions need time. Time needs patience. Ever used those dial timers? You have to let them play out their time. You can force them to 0 but they may break, they still make the clicking noise and for others the bell will not sound when 0 is reached. Let the story unfold. You need time to heal and recover, he needs time to do his own thing. Your R needs time to scar and reflect what the future wil look like. By time think months or even years. I have my own opinion on this matter but respect everyone elses opinion on how long we should wait. I guess it boils down to how the situation is unfolding.
If things are changing positively, the wheel is turning slowly but surely then go with the flow. If there is no change then depending on how well you have GAL and moved forward will determine how long you are prepared to sit on the sidelines until you decide to move on. Whatever you do is right. I think waiting xx is too much others the opposite. It depends on how you feel. Others are prepared to be W BFF so long as they can still be in contact. Outside the box we see things differently, in order to judge we need to be in their shoes.
Therefore whatever you do do for yourself and not thinking in others. Friends and family have their opinions and most I have heard have 0 tolerance to WS. That is until they are in that very same situation. Listen to them but remember they are only going to say what they think is right according to their feelings as a non affected person and also what they think will cause you less pain. It is done with the best intentions but it does not mean it is right.
Anyhow with these examples I saw a change in myself as did those around me and went from worrying about where she goes or does not go to a significant improvement. All thanks to advice and a lot of racking my brains on what to do. I still make mistakes and get it wrong and should get a lot of 2x4 but at the end of the day I follow the words I often hear posters tell me ... how did it help me get nearer my goals?
damn... wrote a lot ... sorry about that .. hoped to have helped ... had a bit of free time .. was going to say 2 cents worth but this is like 1 dollar.
Hugs Max..
Ah, amazing post Maximus. Gonna print it out and read it again.
Hi Focus,
Is it that long you need to print it out?
Damn... (smile)
BTW Will be back home in UK in a couple of weeks for business trip.
Keep it up (thats what she said) and smiling too
Hugs Max
Hope your work is going well. Sounds exciting.
My ability to work took a real bashing in October. I'm desperately trying to catch up with it all now. I've come to realise that I absolutely have to defend that whatever H is up to...it's too important to me.
Focus,
Work was what kept me going. The trips abroad helped me disconnect.
I still however had days where I took them like holidays because concentration was zero and then had to make up on the better days.
My M and R are still first on my list but job keeps the light on and house warm.
How are you coping?
Hugs Max..
Wow Max. I just read your advice and want to thank you. Your dollar's worth of wisdom is worth millions. I am in a similar spot as MB and have been asking myself the same questions. I will take everything you said to heart. Thank you!
I have been reading other's posts lately, and haven't been posting much myself. I have cut contact with my H. Today makes 3 WEEKS since I have seen him, talked to him, texted him, or had any contact whatsoever. It is very hard not to reach out to him or go to see him. He asked for space and that's what he's gotten. I just don't know what to do NOW. I mean, I'm trying to keep myself together, but I had really, really, really hoped that by now he would have gotten curious as to whether or not I'm even still alive. Guess not because he hasn't contacted me at all. Is there a time when it's okay to go see him? I already know that everyone is going to say NO, but I just need to hear it anyway. We don't have children together, so there is no reason for us to "have to" talk or update each other. So, if he doesn't call or text me then that's just it? We never speak again? There is just no way that I'm going to bump into him by accident, and he seems to be content to live as if I were nonexistent. So, how will he ever know if I have changed or not? I miss him and think about him all the time. I can't help but wonder if he thinks of me, or if I'm just not even important enough to him to ever cross his mind. Ugh.... Sorry, it's just been a really hard day for me. He's been on my mind all freaking day and I have reverted back into an emotional wreck. Thanks for listening.
Hey MB
stay the course. The contact needs to come from them and then you need to have your return planned carefully even if you do return the contact.
I am backl on the no contact route after some recent events. I opened myself back up to some pain and took a good kick.
stay strong
I may be totally off the mark here, but from what I understand, if your H is in the throws of an EAPA, then his mind is full of that at the moment. Which may be why he's not getting in touch?
I think I might be in a pretty similar situation to the one you're in, in terms of time scales and what's going on.
Yes, he is having an EAPA. I'm sure that's what's on his mind right now. How am *I* supposed to get on his mind if he never has to see me or deal with me at all. I know I'm getting impatient, it's just really hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that I had to constantly stay in touch with HIM and reassure HIM before he found someone else. Now, he just doesn't care to speak to me ever again. And, I feel like I'm just stepping aside and saying GO AHEAD AND HAVE YOUR AFFAIR....I wish you well! UGH!
I'm sorry. As I stated previously, this has been an emotional and sucky day. Just feeling needy and sorry for myself I guess. It's just getting harder every single day to not just go over there to see him.
Hey MB
stay the course. The contact needs to come from them and then you need to have your return planned carefully even if you do return the contact.
Hmmm, guess I don't have a reply ready. I am having a hard time imagining him contacting me, and if he does, I have no idea what he will have to say unless it's that he wants a divorce.
Great advice.
"That's what she said". Lol hilarious
MB we are in a very similar boat. I know the fear of NC because I too am living it. I got a lot of great advice just from reading what others have said to you.
We both need to listen to all the ones that have come before us.
I hope you're okay tonight. Please don't go by his house. I've had the urge as well. So far i haven't.
I really hope you are okay.
You two started the relationship by cheating on your spouses. That was doomed from the start. Of course he's paranoid and accuses you of things. He knows you're capable of cheating on your spouse. Then again, so is he so...
I posted this a couple fo days ago......
"Yes, he is having an EAPA. I'm sure that's what's on his mind right now. How am *I* supposed to get on his mind if he never has to see me or deal with me at all. I know I'm getting impatient, it's just really hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that I had to constantly stay in touch with HIM and reassure HIM before he found someone else. Now, he just doesn't care to speak to me ever again. And, I feel like I'm just stepping aside and saying GO AHEAD AND HAVE YOUR AFFAIR....I wish you well! UGH!"
I guess I was hoping for more of a response than being told that I started my marriage by having an affair so there is no hope, it's doomed, and get over it. My husband's suspicious and jealous behavior didn't have anything to do with him actually thinking I was out doing anything. It was his way of controlling and isolating me. He would put me on the defensive, then manipulate me by making it not worth it to actually leave the house, talk on the phone, email anyone, etc. Although I DID cheat during the last 3 weeks of my first marriage, that marriage was over and had been for years I was just stuck and didn't know how to get out of it. I do not consider myself a cheater though, that was SOOO out of chacter for me and only happened because I had been engaged to my current husband before breaking up and eventually marrying my first husband. I KNEW that I wouldn't cheat again because the only reason it happened the first time is because he was already so comforting and familiar to me. I ASSUMED that he felt the same way as I did and therefore I never had any trust issues with him and honestly NEVER thought he would cheat on me. I know it sounds like I'm just trying to excuse myself, I'm really not. There is no excuse for cheating. I did it. I admitted it. I got divorced and moved on. I felt horribly guilty and dispicable for having done it. And, I'm absulutely sure it will never happen again. I really need to stop assuming that he thinks the same way that I do, because clearly he does not. With that being said, I do love my husband and don't want to loose him for good.
So, back to my origional question. The GAL, ACT AS IF, doing the 180, etc are all great tools, but if you NEVER EVER have any contact with your spouse at all, how in the world will he ever be able to see any of it? He doesn't really have any friends around here that would know me or tell him anything. He is not on social media. We don't have kids together. He doesn't go out anywhere, etc. So, how am I supposed to ever get myself out there for him to see me?? The OW doesn't even live here. It seems that it should be easier for him to remember that he loves me, since he has the opportunity to see me way more than her. I just feel like I have completely cut myself out of his life so he doesn't even have to think about me any more. It's been almost an entire month since I have seen him, texted him, spoken to him, etc. I know the 180 is supposed to be for ME, but I was hoping that he would at least have the chance to SEE that I've been trying to GAL.
As I sit here typing this, I KNOW that I sound desperate and pathetic. I promise all of this makes sense in my head, but my lack of sleep for the past 2 1/2 months is making it difficult to get my thoughts out clearly. This last week has been incredibly stressfull and nothing has even changed. Not sure if it's because Christas is getting closer, or if it's because it's been so long since I've talked to or seen him. Probably a combination of the 2.
I realize that I cheated on my first husband 12 years ago, but that's not me now. Now I am the one being cheated on. And, although this may be poetic justice for me, I am still completely heartbroken and having a hard time making it. If anyone out there has some kind words, or maybe something encouraging to tell me that might help or at least make me feel better, I would love to hear them. I thought I was past the crying part and that I was so numb that I couldn't possibly cry any more, I was wrong.
Oh, did I mention that the OW is here? I saw her car at his house last night. I guess she came up to see him for the weekend. He is supposed to be working today, so I am REALLY having a hard time trying to convince myself that it's a bad idea to go meet her and talk to her. I DON'T mean yell at her, tell her to stop seeing my H, threaten her, or anything like that. I mean just TALK to her...ask her if she knows that he's married, that until 2 months ago we still saw each other for hours every single day, let her see that I am not a monster, etc. I have been wrestling with this since I found out. So far I have managed to keep myself from doing it, but that's because she is a 4 hr drive away....but, now she is just a mile down the road. This is going to take strength that I'm not even sure I have any more.
MB...I contacted my H's OW, and it ended the A, but 1) H didn't have feelings for her...it was a friends-with-benefits hookup of convenience, and 2) OW had no clue he was married with children and was very upset with H and apologetic to me when she found out.
I only called her because I found all the texts between them on our phone bill and was trying to establish exactly what was going on to confirm the A. I would NOT try to contact the OW just to scare her off. I think my case was unusual because H didn't have romantic feelings for her. He still loved and wanted me, but was just insecure and using her for validation he wasn't getting from me. But in most affairs there are actual feelings for the OP involved, and I think the outcome in those situations would be much different. I also suspect there is a good chance the OW in your situation already knows about you if 1) she is hiding her car around back, and 2) your stuff is still in the house. Clearly, she knows and doesn't care. Besides, as others have already said, OW is not the problem--your R with your H is. Figure out how to fix the R, and OW will go away too.
As for how to do that...right now, there may not be a lot except to wait for the A to burn itself out. Nearly all of them will. In the meanwhile, GAL. Stop being predictable. Let H notice your car missing and wonder where you are/who are you with. He WILL notice. Work on being your amazing, fun, interesting self, and when the time is right and the novelty wears off from the A, you will be in a great position to catch your H's attention again. Timing is absolutely everything. You can be doing all the right things, but if it's the wrong time and H isn't ready to be receptive (clearly he is not since he's holed up with OW right now), it's a wasted effort.
Be patient. It feels like an emergency when our spouses leave and that we have to do everything we can to get them back as quickly as possible. But really...time is on your side. Don't allow your feelings of panic and desperation to let you act in ways that damage your long term chances of recovery. You will have a chance to fix things.
Annab,
Thank you for taking the time to write to me! I did not go to see or talk to the OW today. Was proud of myself for that because I really wanted to. It was H day to work, so when I went for my walk this AM, I walked by his house. I knew he wouldn't be there but I just wanted to see if he went to work and left her there all by herself in the house today. The answer was no, he didn't. Apparently, he took the day off to spend it with her. It really irritated me because I used to ask him all the time to take a day off and spend it with ME, and he always said no. Sigh.... Anyway, I was not expecting to see his truck there when I passed by. It upset me a lot, but I just kept walking so he wouldn't see me. When I moved out originally, I moved all of my kids stuff, but every time I would touch anything of mine, H would get very upset, so I would stop. As it turned out, all of MY stuff is still there because he never would let me take it. That's why I don't want her there alone so she can go through everything. Somehow it didn't make me feel any better knowing that HE was there with her.
I know that everything you said in your post is TRUE, I really do try, it's just soooo hard! I know that I need to GAL and work on myself while doing the 180. I do make sure my car isn't home sometimes, even if it's just that I parked it in my friend's garage. I get dressed and go to town only to realize that I can't even think of anywhere to go. It really is sad. I just spent so many years not talking to anyone or going anywhere because it mad him mad and jealous. So, now that I CAN do those things, Im having problems coming up with something to do. I guess eventually I will figure it out. Thanks again for responding.
Hi MB. As you know I spoke to the ow. And though in my situation it helped me know for sure once and for all it also hurts so bad.
If i wanted to I could drive by his house every night. I have not done this because if his car is gone it will hurt me and be has inflicted enough hurt to last me and a few other woman a lifetime.
As for GAL i have yet to start so I am not bashing you for not doing it. But a walk I took did help even if only for as long as it lasted. Also wrapping my kids gifts has helped. I put christmas music on and had a glass of wine.
Yes I was a little sad during thinking how unfair etc but i just sang louder and kept wrapping.... what else can we do?
As Annab said. Ow may very well know about you. Or at least your husbands spin on you. But even if she doesn't, you telling her may have your husband damning you and protecting her and begging for HER forgiveness. Trust me. That is NOT something you want to see or know about.
This all hurts and seems so unfair doesn't it?
"Yes, he is having an EAPA. I'm sure that's what's on his mind right now. How am *I* supposed to get on his mind if he never has to see me or deal with me at all. I know I'm getting impatient, it's just really hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that I had to constantly stay in touch with HIM and reassure HIM before he found someone else. Now, he just doesn't care to speak to me ever again. And, I feel like I'm just stepping aside and saying GO AHEAD AND HAVE YOUR AFFAIR....I wish you well! UGH!"
Hi, I am a former cheater, too. So no judgement from me. Whatever you and your current H did, and however you got together, will not change the fact you are legally M.
The best weapon you have is you getting a life without him, and not showing interest in what he's doing.......or who he's doing it with. In a sense you may appear as if you are saying. " Go ahead, have your affair. I wish you well........but I am not waiting around, crying for you". You only said those words with your attitude. Your attitude also says that you have too much dignity to be any man's second choice. You are much too valuable to have leftovers.
Want to fight for this man? Do you really want him that badly? Okay, I am going to give the key to secret. Your fight is not with words. It is not following him around, watching what he's doing. It is turning loose. Drop the rope, go dark and yes, let him do whatever. He is a grown man and you are not his mamma. Right now, he doesn't deserve you. You want him b/c you feel dumped, betrayed, are afraid, and can't have him. Well, it works both ways.
You have to have the spunk to just start living your life as though he had passed away. Stop making him your reason to live. You become a beautiful lady who any man would be a fool to let slip through his fingers. Oh, and don't be worried about him not seeing. If you wonder if he knows or how he will see.........you are giving away your strength/power.
You can do this! Hold your head high and walk proud. You don't have to have him to make you happy.
You make you happy.
Just to clarify when I said it works both ways. I wasn't suggesting you do what he's doing and have an affair. I mean he will want what he thinks he can't have. You have been too easy for him to have. He has to believe you are through and are moving forward. If anything jars him to his senses, this will. Maybe not quickly, but in time. He needs to work really, REALLY hard to get you back.
I totally agree with Sandi that your fight is not with words. Right now, it doesn't matter what you say...he isn't hearing you. He isn't ready to. The second you stop following the script he has for you in his head, however, he will stand up and take notice.
After my H moved out, he went dark and cold. He didn't return my texts or emails, and did everything he could to avoid conversation with me. He told me in no uncertain terms that he was D-O-N-E, DONE. There was no hope, and that I needed to just stop, because "why would you even want to be with someone who tells you to your face they don't want you?" Why indeed? Still, I did all the wrong things for months...pursued...cried...begged...acted like a completely pathetic human being. It only made things worse. But then one day, something clicked and I'd had enough.
I agreed with the divorce...told him he was right that the marriage was hopeless and couldn't be saved. I told him to go find someone else and be happy because I was going to do the same. I put on my happy face and was friendly and cracked jokes and told him to have a nice life. The turn around on his part was almost instantaneous. Suddenly the guy who couldn't be bothered to even look at me was questioning my every move. Why was I dressed up? Where was I going? Was there another guy? I smiled and said I'd love to be open and transparent in a marriage, but you fired me as your wife and therefore I am no longer accountable to you.
He's no longer convinced he wants a divorce and told me he is thinking about coming home. Maybe I'll still want him if/when he decides to.
The point isn't to say all this has been a panacea for our problems, but it got his attention and made him consider the reality of losing me when nothing else did. It's easy to spurn your spouse when you know they are desperately chasing after you and just waiting to welcome you home with open arms if/when you decide to "bless" them with your presence again. Give him a reason to question whether you'll still be around. It sounds crazy but it works!!
Thank you all for your posts, I have nothing to add but as always reading other people's sitches and the advice gives me more clarity with my own. There is a lot of wisdom here.
I would love to have the shift and just be able to act as if I dont care. It helped to read your story. Thank you
MB...i hope you're doing okay today.
Rain
If i wanted to I could drive by his house every night. I have not done this because if his car is gone it will hurt me and be has inflicted enough hurt to last me and a few other woman a lifetime.
This all hurts and seems so unfair doesn't it?
I know exactly what you mean! I drive by his house because for some stupid reason, it's comforting to me just knowing that he's home and not out of town seeing her. It's like a drug addict and that is my "fix." It's short lived, then I need to check again. It's like I can't make myself stop. Then, when he's NOT home, I'm crushed. I know that I hurt MYSELF, because I didn't have to drive by, but did anyway. Sure didn't hurt H or the OW. They don't care! The pain is completely devastating when I realize he's probably with her. And, on the 2 occasions that she was staying with him, the pain was so intense that it was almost unbearable. I thought I was too numb and dead inside to still feel this much pain. Apparently, I was mistaken!
And, yes Rain, this is the most unfair and hurtful thing I can ever imagine anyond doing to me....or to anyone on this list. It [censored]! I just want to yell SOMEONE PLEASE STOP THIS CRAZY TRAIN BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO RIDE ANYMORE!!!!!!!
Sandi,
I know that you're giving me solid advice, it's just so hard for me to do! I really do try, and I'm getting a little better, but it's a minute by minute struggle sometimes! I do drive by, but USUALLY it's at night after he's already in bed so I doubt that he has seen me do so. As far as he knows (I think), I have dropped off of the face of the earth. I have not seen him, called him, texted him, bumped into him anywhere, etc. There has been NO contact with him in almost a month. In 2 days it will be a month. Sigh...... I had HOPED that it would make him wonder and he would call. I was WRONG!
I haven't exactly gotten a life yet, but I move my vehicle, park it at a friends house in her garage, let my son drive it to work, etc. That' way IF he drives by, it won't be here. I have been walking a lot. It does help me clear my head and I have found that if I'm REALLY upsed, I can't cry if I'm walking fast enough because it makes it impossible to Breathe. I've lost 35 lbs so far.
So, while I might not have gotten a life, He doesn't know any different.
I do have a question though. My things are still at hs house. Should I go over there and ask him for them? My counselor wanted me to write a etter to him saying that I am willing to work on our marriage at this time, but I'm going to give him the "space" that he asked for but that I'm not going to wait forever. And, in the meantime, I'm going to work on getting myself together. Do you think it would be a good idea to write such a letter and then go over and give it to him and ask when a good time would be to pack up my stuff? Or, should I just forget about my things and not write a letter or go over there?
Thanks for any wods of wisdom you have for me.
LOL, I never thought that you were telling me to go out and find someone so that I could have an affair just like my H. I would really love it if he thought I wasn't going to be here and got jealous. He gets a bit crazy when he's jealous though.
Well, tomorrow will be 4 weeks...and entire month since I broke contact with H. I haven't seen, called, texted, spoken to, "accidentally ran into," or anything else in an entire month. Sadly, neither has he. I had HOPED he would have missed me or perhaps gotten curious by now. This was the man that had to know where I was CONSTANTLY. And, now he hasn't seen me or known where I've been in a month, and doesn't seem to care one bit. It should be getting easier, but seems to get harder every day that he doesn't seem to realize that I'm not around.
Pho--I agree with you. Sometimes I wish there was a 'like' button on peoples comments to a particular sitch.
MB--I am feeling sad for you today. I am a little over the one month mark myself since BD, but H is still living here. I figured would/could DB until he left, then he could truly see what he was missing. Now I am not so sure after reading your thread. Sigh.
anna gave great advice. Be patient.
Melweb,
My advice to you would be DON'T WASTE ANY TIME! Do a 180 now!! I WISH that he was here so he could see what he's going to be missing if I'm not around. Sadly, I can change all I want, but he is oblivious to it because #1 He has an OW and doesn't care about me at the moment and #2 He isn't around to see that anything is different. Our BD was the end of Sept just a few days after my bday. I have not seen him, talked to him, texted him, etc in a month now. It's killing ME even though he seems to not notice. Get your H attention NOW while he's still around to get it. And, do so by showing him what a wonderful catch you really are. Do the 180, GAL, act as if you're moving on, etc. Stop being predictable and make him wonder! Start NOW while he's there. Don't be cold or mean, be upbeat and bubbly and just appear that you don't care. Good luck and keep us posted. You CAN do this! ((((Melweb))))
I say the same thing. He vacuumed me into his crazy for a long while. It's just bizarre. But this time im standing my ground and he HATES it.
I really hope you are doing better and congrats on the 35lb loss. You go girl!
MB, wow thanks for your words of encouragement. I came here to check on you today, and you gave ME a pep talk. Nice. And much appreciated. How are you tho?
I am 180'ing like a pro. I am happy, upbeat, confident and a person only a fool would leave. Its my best chance of survival right now. The GAL'ing is slow going, unfortunately. We just moved here 5 months ago and I have not met any friends yet. I am trying to get a job at the Y, and will hopefully know soon.
Keep in mind that these things had to happen whether my marriage suffered the BD or not. I had gotten to place where I did not even like myself anymore. And my kids were noticing it. So even if your H isn't around to see all your wonderful changes, guess who is? MB!!
"anna gave great advice. Be patient."
I think the panic we feel when they leave is often our worst enemy. I wish I knew back when my H first moved out all the things I know now. It was my panic and desperation that pushed him so out of reach. There were times over the last year and a half that he was close to coming home, but I couldn't give him his space to process his feelings. I left him no other choice but to pull further and further away from me to get it. I am quite certain if I'd known the "rules" back when everything began, our separation would have ended a long time ago.
Don't panic.
No matter how they make you feel, ending a M isn't easy for anyone. My H was so cold and beyond reach, I was convinced he wouldn't have cared if I'd fallen off the face of the earth. He did not seem bothered by our separation at all and appeared to be moving on with his life easily.
Now that we are talking again, I am hearing a completely different story...about how he buried his feelings because they were so overwhelming, but they ate him up and were constantly on his mind. And now I think about all the times I reacted poorly towards him because he was behaving like a jerk and I *thought* he didn't care, and see how easily I could have changed things for the better if I'd just given him his space and stopped reacting negatively.
Don't assume you know what's going on in your spouses head just because they act a certain way. You don't know.
The more you panic, pressure, and force the situation, the further you will be from your goal to bring him home. Your M is not going to end overnight. You have time, and how you use it matters.
Anna i know you posted this for MB but just wanted to let you know that it helped me too. The panic and fear coupled with the pain is at times too much to bear and it's so easy to lash out at the one who hurt us.
I wish I knew back when my H first moved out all the things I know now. It was my panic and desperation that pushed him so out of reach. There were times over the last year and a half that he was close to coming home, but I couldn't give him his space to process his feelings.
I don't think it helps us to be so focused on our spouse and not ourselves. It sounds like you are taking the blame for HIS affair! Was it your panic and desperation that caused him to abandon his ethics and sense of decency? I get we want to think that we are doing things "wrong" and if we just do the "right" things that we could "win" them back. But the problem is THEIR thinking, not ours. Give him space?? As in stand by while he emotionally abuses you? You gave YOURSELF space. He didn't like it.
I reacted poorly towards him because he was behaving like a jerk and I *thought* he didn't care, and see how easily I could have changed things for the better if I'd just given him his space and stopped reacting negatively.
Same thing. He WAS behaving like a jerk and you are feeling sorry that YOU weren't more sensitive to his jerkiness? Deep down he was hurting? Who cares? You didn't because you didn't know and lucked into behaving in accordance with what he was showing you. He needed some tough love and you gave it to him.
I think giving him "space" and not "reacting negatively" and his change of heart are not cause and effect. I think pulling away generates a fear of loss and a respect for you standing up for yourself. THAT is what has the wayward spouse take notice.
The 180 is about US, not them. I think a lot of people forget that. Instead, they use it as a tactic to try and mainpuate their spouse back. Someone who knows you as well as a spouse does can see through that.
If you BECOME that person of awesomeness, for yourself, they sometimes see that and want to come back. And just as you said, it is your choice as to whether you let them sit at the feet of that awesomeness or not. They had better show not only remorse for what they did, but a serious indication of a change in the thinking that led them to choose an affair and abandoning their family as a mature choice for whatever was lacking inside them.
Although I DID cheat during the last 3 weeks of my first marriage, that marriage was over and had been for years I was just stuck and didn't know how to get out of it. I do not consider myself a cheater though, that was SOOO out of chacter for me and only happened because I had been engaged to my current husband before breaking up and eventually marrying my first husband. I KNEW that I wouldn't cheat again because the only reason it happened the first time is because he was already so comforting and familiar to me.
Not judging you here, but I want to call you on this because it may be something you can look at in yourself. You are using the same rationalizations and justifications as anyone who cheats does. Just look at it this way, something wasn't working for you and out of all your ethical choices (waiting 3 weeks maybe?), you chose to cheat. Are you really so sure you would never do it again or just really hope that about yourself?
That line about "that marriage was over and had been for years" is classic script to feel better about the choice to cheat. Again, I am not saying this as a judgement, but you will understand your current situation better when you understand why you did it too. Someone who had really undergone a change in thinking would have just said something like. "I cheated too. I rationalized it by saying my marriage was over and this person comforted me, but the real reason was that I wanted what I wanted. I was coming from a place of entitlement and only thinking of myself in that situation. I had other choices and willfully chose that route. I only came to see this later by doing a lot of introspection"
If your WS ever wants back, I would hope you make sure you hear something like that before opening the door
Flight,
While I do understand what you are saying, and even agree with your thinking, I can assure you that at no time did I feel like I was coming from a place of selfishness or entitlement when I cheated on my husband. And, yes, I know it sounds like I'm making excuses and justifications of my situation. I felt trapped in my marriage (that WAS dead) because I had 4 small children and was in an emotionally and sexually abusive marriage where my husband had pretty much sucked the fight right out of me. I was not at that time able to even see a way out, much less act on it. The only reason I got out was because after the many threats to kill me, the police took me straight from work to a safe house where my ex couldn't find me, then, I had to go stay with family several hours away from here so he wouldn't know where I was. I started having full blown panic. Attacks just from hearing his voice on the phone. He sabotaged my car by putting a remote start on it and linking it to my fuel pump so he could leave me stranded just by passing by and pushing a remote button. He called and threatened to kill me every day and stalked me. I was honestly afraid for my life. I was truly dealing with a fruit cake! I did cheat, and my current H did let me lean on him for strength, and would have been there to protect me from the monster that I was with if I needed him to. I guess I did rationalize that he was okay because we had been engaged before, so he felt "safe" to me. Even so, I still felt HORRIBLY guilty, for cheating on my ex and I do know for sure that I would never do that again. I don't have kids tying me to anyone else other than my ex. If I want out now, I could just leave. There is no reason to sneak around and cheat on my H. I would just TELL HIM. And, he had no reason to cheat on me. We are not tied together with kids or a house and can both support ourselves financially. Sigh.... That's my take on it. If you still think I'm wrong, I guess I can reexamine and see what I come up with.
I went to my IC yesterday and it was quite depressing as usual. I know that what he is saying is true, but that doesn't mean I want to hear it! Usually he asks me how everything is going, what''s new with H, etc. Well, yesterday I told him that nothing is new and that I haven't had any contact at all with H for the past 4 weeks. He then made the comment, basically, that I had given him the space that he asked for and he didn't reach out to me, so now I had my answer...that it is over. I was a bit dumbfounded to say the least. I never gave him any indication that after 4 weeks that was it and I was just going to trot down to the courthouse and finalize everything. He did back up when I pointed out that I'm not giving up yet, but then I just kept sitting there wondering if that means that it's over. Maybe he knows something that I don't (I'm sure that part is true, lol) and that after a month of no contact they don't come back. It really set me up for a miserably sad and lonely night. I am SO tired of having to feel like crap every single day for stupid choices that my H makes that affects BOTH of us, but he's only concerned about himself.
It has already been so very hard for me not to go over there these last few days, and now that desire to go see him is even stronger after having seen the counselor yesterday. So tired of constantly feeling lonely and pathetic and nothing seems to ease those feelings inside me. God, please give me strength because I'm feeling incredibly weak right now....
And, Flight, I do remember how it felt when I cheated on my ex. The one thing that is so clear in my mind is that once I had someone to draw strength and courage from, my ex never had a chance. There's nothing he could have ever said or done to suck me back in that relationship ever again. I think that's why I sit and cry every day...it's because I KNOW without a doubt that as long as he has the OW, he won't give me a second though. It's just so unfair because I have already taken so much manipulation and crap from H over the last 10 years, HE isn't the one that deserves to just move on and be happy while leaving me here hurt and broken again.
Just so you know, I really feel for you. There are a lot of people who have had a lot of painful situations, and what you have gone through with abuse is among the worst. No one should have to endure physical abuse.
You never needed anyone to draw strength and courage from. That is the point I was making. You have it inside yourself. Too often we look for things outside ourselves to fix ourselves. So many of our bad choices from from self-esteem issues. If we can just believe in ourselves, we can have healthy lives and healthy relationships.
What Sandi says about "loving from a distance" applies here. You can wait and see, but in the meantime you have to move on for you. You don't want to find yourself posting here a year from now saying, "we have had no contact at all still, when is he going to text me?" It is hard, we want that "fix" to have contact with them, but we need to put the focus on ourselves and the answers will come. And sometimes that answer is we move on without them.
What are you doing for YOU MB? If you can get out, be with people, do things that empower you, it will make you feel better.
Flight, I do understand your POV. I have no interest in assuming guilt that doesn't belong to me, but neither will I allow him to accept all of it either. Relationships take two. He was wrong for what he did and I make no excuses for that. But the things we do and ways we act definitely influence the choices our partners make, for better or worse. I was wrong in as many ways as he was, before the A, and after... There was literally nothing more he could have done to show remorse and transparency and concern for me. I still couldn't let it go and rarely missed the opportunity to remind him of how much he hurt me. It was only when he'd exhausted his efforts and was gone that I realized I either had to let go of his mistake, or him. And then I panicked, became desperate, and pushed him even FURTHER away by chasing, crying, pursuing, getting angry, etc., etc. That's the part I regret.
I'm not at all saying anyone should focus on their WW spouse instead of themselves. The point I was trying to make was not that one needed to do the "right things" to win a spouse back. On the contrary...once a spouse has gotten to the point of leaving, it often really does not matter WHAT "right things" you do, because they are no longer in the place to care. I was simply stating that, if someone asks for space and to leave them alone, you should give it to them. Because not only does chasing them not work, it puts you a lot further away from your goal than where you started from.
You don't want to find yourself posting here a year from now saying, "we have had no contact at all still, when is he going to text?
LOL, Oh PLEASE tell me you're not looking into a crystal ball and that I'm no still going to be this pathetic in a year! I can almost see it....
My self esteem definitely took a beating in my first marriage. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that I was jumping into a relationship with a control freak that was going to blame me for everything that had ever happened to him in his whole life....even if it was before we met! What little self esteem I walked away from my first marriage with, my second marriage made sure to promptly destroy it. And, when I didn't think I could feel any worse, my H had to prove me wrong and leave me for OW. The thing is that I knew that he was controlling and manipulating me, but I allowed it and even bought into a lot of it because I was just trying to keep the peace. Not sure why I allow everyone to pile their crap on me and I just take the problems on like they are my own. The thing is, I know that I CAN be a strong person, I just can't seem to do it in my personal life. I am strong when it comes to my kids and work, but not when it's about ME. I told my IC yesterday that I want to work on why I am willing to settle for so little from everyone in my life (mainly H) and why I don't seem to believe that I deserve better. That could take a while!
What are you doing for YOU MB? If you can get out, be with people, do things that empower you, it will make you feel better.
I do feel better when I'm not sitting at home. Problem is that my depression is keeping me from WANTING to do anything. However...
* I walk a LOT. I learned that it is nearly impossible for me to walk and cry at the same time. Can't cry when I'm breathing hard from walking fast. Lost 36lbs and counting.
* I have been picking up and working a few extra shifts. I try not to get carried away with that though. LOL
* I have spent more time with my parents in the last 3 months that I probably did in the entire year before that.
* I have been reading a LOT online about midlife crisis and divorce busting.
* I have been trying to get my Christmas shopping done. My thoughts are too scattered to be very effective in this though.
* I have been calling and talking to friends from work which is something I didn't do before because my H was way to controlling and jealous and it interfered with his attempts to isolate me.
*** Oh, yea, and on Saturday I am going out with my friends to a club/restaurant to listen to live music, eat dinner and visit.
Okay, I know when you look at the list, it's not really that much, but that's all I've got going on these days. I'm open to suggestions!
Oh, and IC. I have been going for about 2 months. Also been thinking about opening a FB account. Most of my family lives up north and I never get to see or talk to them. I have always wanted to open a FB so I could keep up with my relatives, but H hated the thought of me being online because clearly *I* was out looking for someone else. What a joke! Anyway, I always respected his wishes and didn't open one, but it always irritated me that wasn't "allowed" to. I would just hate for him to find out that I had one, because that would be one more reason he wouldn't want to talk to me. How sad is that, I don't live with him, he has an OW and doesn't want me, but I still let him control me. Sigh....
Hi MB,
It's totally ok to start small on the gal activities! Take this time to do things you've always wanted to do, but never did! One thing will lead to another and another and another. FB could be a good distraction and a great way to reconnect with family from afar.
I felt compelled to post because I had IC this evening and the topic was how I allowed my h to control many aspects of our life. Even when sharing with her, I had to bring up the fact that I felt guilty talking about/complaining/ blaming him for some things. She quickly pointed out that even by saying I feel guilty I am still allowing him to control me. Not ok! Every now and again we need those 2x4s.
Thanks Feyth. I have always known that I allowed him to control and dominate me, I just really didn't care that much I guess. Most of the concessions that I made didn't really matter to me that much so it wasn't a big deal. And, it was just so much easier to avoid the conflict than to have to deal with his anger issues. The main problems is that because I let him isolate me from EVERYONE other than him, when he quit talking to me, I had no one. I had no life. And, I must say, it's much harder finding one than I thought! The FB thing still makes me nervous because I worry that if I get one, it will be the one thing that causes him to decide that he doesn't want to contact me. He will claim that I always had it and that I was lying to him. Stupid I know, I just haven't been able to change my thinking. It has been firmly pounded in my head. He did a good job programming me!
Feyth, how have you been able to make such progress? I feel like I'm stuck. Like I'm just standing still afraid to move in any direction. I haven't had any contact at all with H in over 4 weeks now. Some days are okay. Never really good, just okay. And, others are horrible. My mind will start thinking about him and I just can't seem to break the cycle. It's like I start becoming obsessed with knowing if he's home, or where he is, what he's doing, etc. There's no way for me to have any idea what he's actually doing, but it doesn't stop me from thinking about it. It's like I'm sitting here just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Did you feel that way? And, if so, how did you get passed it? I feel like I'm just going through the motions of life right now but I can't make any decisions because I'm so afraid that it will be the wrong one and I will do something to finish my marriage for good. I know that's giving HIM all the power and I don't like that. I also know that it doesn't really matter because he also has no idea what's going on with me since there is no contact.
Mb,
There's no magic pill. I was a flippin mess for months. A MESS!!! There were some days where all I did was read (and cry) trying to figure out how I could fix this. It's only been the last few weeks that the constant nausea and brick on my chest has dissipated. And it only happened when I finally got it through my thick skull that I have zero control over the sitch (aka him). I've been working hard this whole time trying to better myself so he would come back. Once I realized that there was nothing I could "do" I shifted the focus on me and feel like I can now reap the rewards from all the really hard work I've been doing and am still doing to better myself.
I did it all: read, IC, DB coach, read more, started to refocus on religion and prayer, the only thing I allowed myself to watch on tv were things that would better myself ( lots of Oprah channel).... I even saw a psychic twice! I wanted answers anywhere I could find them... I didn't expect peace to show ever again.... But like everyone says here and in the dr book.... Focus on improving yourself- gal, do 180s, become someone only a fool would leave. That has since been my goal: I smile even when I don't feel like it, I whistle, when I'm feeling happy I say it out loud, I eat healthy, I lost weight, I keep my environment peaceful (clean, neat apt), when I have the opportunity to do a gal activity I do it... Sometimes I even invite myself along to things! I practice gratitudes and random acts of kindness. I meditate (every day). I still read every day and check in on this board to learn from others
I know how hard and painful this is... It just takes time.
Well, maybe there is hope out there for me eventually. I guess I just felt like I should be doing better, but I just can't do it. I randomly cry for absolutely no reason. I am fine one minute, then the next...without anything at all happening ...I am so lonely, miserable and inconsolable. Unfortunately, once I start to feel that way I seem to spiral out of control and can't seem to calm myself no matter how many deep breaths I take. I think that what's the worst for me is knowing that he has someone else. Knowing that he's treating HER the way I wanted him to treat me, but he just wouldn't. And, here I sit by myself having to go through all this pain while he's having the time of his life making someone else happy. I just sit here and wait for him to tell me that he wants a divorce, or that he's separating bills that we have together, or something. I know eventually he will start changing things, or bring up the d word, and I just sit here waiting for it to hit me over the head. I'm sure he's not bothered by thinking about me or what I'm doing. His complete lack of concern or compassion for me hurts so bad and I don't know how much more pain I can go through. I need to feel SOMETHING in my life other than loneliness, anxiety and pain.
MB, I completely understand how you feel. I feel/have felt all of those things too. They are normal. Here are a some of things that have helped me.
First, it's hard for gratitude and despair to live together. Every night (almost) I write down 3 gifts or blessing. Usually really small things. It might be Christmas lights, or a safe place to sleep, or a starry night. There is always something.
Secondly, don't sit around waiting for anything. Think about what you would do if the divorce was done and he was married to her? Start moving in that direction.
Thirdly, what do you really enjoy? What do you like to do? What get's you excited. Do one of those things even if it's the last thing you want to do.
Finally, reach out to real people in person. Find some people who understand what you are going through and reach out to them. If you don't have friends or family look for a support group like Divorce Care. This forum is great but you need real live people.
I'm rooting for you. Hang in there.
Thanks Becky. I do know what you mean about the gratitude/despair. I was at the working the other night (I work in a hospital) and had interactions with a family that had a very small child in ICU and they didn't even know if the child would make it through the night. All I could think is how very sad it was for those parents, and how truly blessed I am that my kids are alive and well. It really does put things into perspective. I was sad for that family while I was there, and it made me realize how insignificant my problems really are compared to those parents. That feeling stayed with me during my entire shift, but then my grief and loneliness were at home waiting for me when I got there. I'm not sure being glad my heat works when it's cold outside would have that same effect on me though. I will certainly give it a try and maybe I will be pleasantly surprised and will be able to get these negative feelings to ease a bit.
I am all for reaching out to live people. I do see my family more than I used to, and have even connected with some old friends from work that I allowed my H to isolate me from. They are married and busy though, so I don't get to see them as much as I would like to/need to.
Not sure about the moving in the direction of what I would do if we were d and he was married to her. I feel like that would be me giving up on my m and if I allow myself to think about it, it might just come true. That may be stupid logic, but I am so afraid that I am going to cause he to back farther away from me that I'm just stuck in my own footsteps afraid to take a step.
Not really sure what I enjoy because I never was really able to do anything because I didn't want to rock the boat with H. He would always take everything I did the wrong way. He basically just wanted to sit on the couch and watch TV and wanted me glued to his side when he was home. Didn't want to communicate or pay attention to me, just wanted me THERE. I have actually gotten dressed up, put make up, fixed my hair and went to town only to realize that I had NOTHING to do and couldn't think of anything to do. Drove around a little then, went back home. My life really is just that Sad.
" how have you been able to make such progress? I feel like I'm stuck. Like I'm just standing still afraid to move in any direction. I haven't had any contact at all with H in over 4 weeks now. Some days are okay. Never really good, just okay. And, others are horrible."
MB, I am a year and a half out from the date my H moved out, and I still have good days and bad days. There really is no timetable...it's just a process. When you start out, the rollercoaster has huge hills and valleys, and as you go on, they are still there...they just get a little smaller and less dramatic as the days go by. Don't judge yourself by anyone else' experiences or progress. This is your journey. You'll get there.
Thanks Anna. I know that time will help, I just wish every day that I wouldn't need more time because he would realize what a stupid insensitive retarded jerk he's being and that he's made a huge mistake and spends the rest of his life begging me to forgive him. I know that's probably not going to happen today so I guess I'll have to try to get through each day until he comes to that revelation.
. I don't feel like a Mack truck has plowed into my chest every day like I did the first 2 months since the BD. So, I know there has to be some improvement. I'm just so tired of hurting and just want the pain to be gone.
I noticed in your sig line that there are second thoughts and considering R. That's great news. I REALLY hope it works out for you. What do you think changed for you guys that made that possible?
Acting "as if" isn't giving up. It's moving forward, not moving on.
Trying to stay busy these days, but it's not easy. I have SOOOO much to get done before Christmas, but have absolutely NO desire to do any of it. I do feel badly for my kiddos because I haven't even made Christmas cookies or any of that this year. I am trying to GAL though. Never really had one so it's a hard concept for me. Tonight I went out with some of my friends from work. We went to a restaurant/club for dinner and live music/dancing. I did feel a bit out of place because I never go to places like that, and because I was there with 4 couples and I was the only one without a spouse with me.
. I didn't dance, but did sit around and talk and laugh with everyone. I did get a bit quiet and sad every time a slow song would come on and I would see all the men/women out there slow dancing. I guess eventually when I go out I will enjoy it more. Just feel like I'm going through the motions at this point.
On another note, have had no contact with H for 4 1/2 weeks now and it gets harder every single day not to go over there to see him. I really had hoped he would have contacted me by now. Not sure if that means that he just doesn't think about me at all, if he really and truly wants nothing to do with me ever again, if he's waiting for me to make the first move, if he's too busy screwing the OW to have time to waste on me (this is the one I'm voting on), having a hard time understanding how he can't miss me when he had to know where I was every second of the day for 12 years, and then in the blink of an eye he doesn't care the least little bit what I'm doing, how I'm doing, or where I'm at. UGH! Same questions just keep circling in my brain over and over again. Anyway, been thinking about it for days and have just about decided that it's a good idea to just stop by for a few minutes to say hi and visit with him. I guess I know that I'm just kidding myself and it's probably not a good idea, but that's where my mind is right now. Praying for strength every day but God doesn't seem to hear me any more than my H thinks about me!
Okay, so I ended up breaking the no contact with H after writing my last message. We had gone almost 5 weeks without any contact at all. I just knew that he wouldnl't ever reach out to me even though he was the one that said he didn't want me to call or come over anymore. Anyway, I went over to his house and when he opened the door and saw me, he seemed really glad that I was there. There was no eye rolling or sighing, he didn't sit and stare at the TV while ignoring me, and he didn't even talk to me like he hates me. He just seemed happy to see me. We sat and talked for a long time. I told him that I just wanted to come by because I hadn't seen him in a LONG time. He said that he thought I had moved on and didn't want anything to do with him anymore. Without being prompted at all, he started telling me that he had made some really bad choices and decisions and that he regretted them. He apologized for hurting me. He apologized about having an OW. He told me that he missed me and thought that he didn't think I would ever come back. Just kept saying that he "didn't think that this would ever happen." -talking about the fact that I was there with him. He apologized and said that he had made plans that didn't involve me...plans with the OW and her coming here to spend Christmas with him. He said that he would have to talk to her and stop her from coming. He said that he had led the OW to believe that he wanted a future with her, but said that it wasn't ever actually true. We both told each other that we missed each other and wanted to work on things. He said that he just needed a little time to end it with the OW and asked me to give him just a little time for that. I agreed. All of this was HIM, not me. I didn't ask or prompt him to do anything, he just said that he was going to.
I saw him again yesterday after he texted me and asked me to go do something with him. We spent several hours together and had a nice time. I did ask if he had ended things with OW and he said yes. I didn't ask for any details and he didn't offer any. Now, while all of this seems like exactly what I wanted, I am trying hard to act like I don't see red flags waiving strong in the air.....but, honestly, I do. At one point yesterday I brought up the OW and just started talking about how much he had hurt me and how it made me jealous, insecure, etc. The whole time the words were coming out of my mouth, the voice in my head was yelling WHY DON'T YOU STFU!!!!! But, I just couldn't stop myself. It was like I got a huge case of pathetic dumba**, and I just couldn't control it. Then, the worst thing happened...I started to cry. OMG, really?!?! He put his arm around me and tried to be reassuring/comforting for about 30 seconds, then he got up and walked away. What a relief for ME because then I could SHUT UP and compose myself. UGH!!!!! When he came back into the room a few minutes later, he seemed annoyed that I was even bringing it up. Like, he was thinking since he apologized, it should just be over and not mentioned again. I mean, he said he was sorry...right? So, basically, he gave me exactly what I wanted for a day or 2, and now I see that there is some ridiculously strong rug sweeping attached to it. ANY advice or suggestions that you guys can give me at this point would be VERY MUCH appreciated. I do want to save my marriage, I'm just afraid that if I let him rug sweep the A, it will end up destroying us in the long run.
Hi MB, it sounds as though your H is still pretty conflicted and withdraw would be my advice. There are red flags in there for me too - he needed a little time to end things with OW. He had ended things the next day. My guess is he hasn't and I think until/unless he comes to you and clearly says he wants to work on things and remains present for you - it's a non-starter for now.
You already know that pursuit isn't recommended within DBing. I think part of the issue was your mindreading (I knew he would never get in touch.....(no, that was your mind only)). The problem with DBing is you can get back on the rollercoaster. The rollercoaster being - Oh, you said you ended things with OW....but now I find you're still in touch...and I thought we were reconnecting - arghh!! Rollercoaster again!
Take it from me that it is rarely as quick and easy as you describe above. So, I would back right off for now - and believe me, if he truly wants back in and is willing to do WHATEVER is needed to effect that....he'll do it. But for now, make your own Xmas plans and enjoy them. The plus side of all of the above is he was clearly thinking his actions may have led to the loss of you and wasn't sure about that....all good stuff. I think this will take more time though.
Hang on in there....you can do this my friend xx
Wow, MB. I've been following your story, and it sounds like you've done so much that's RIGHT! I applaud you! Now is the time to re-read Divorce Remedy, especially the chapter on infidelity, and as many of these posts as you can. You CAN do this! I wish you all the best. Fingers crossed for you.
MB!
Just read up on your recent posts. No contact for that long...you are STRONG! I have a hard time with more than a few days. I will remember you when I'm feeling like initiating contact from now on.
Those overwhelming feelings of despair and loneliness and betrayal...paralyzing. That is where the GAL comes in.
Oftentimes, though, its hard to do. Some of us were so wrapped up in H's life that we don't even know what to do with ourselves. Some don't have the energy, or money, or location. Some of us are hampered by seasonal weather conditions. I have found it helpful to become a "student of DB". Reading everything I can find on the techniques and ideas in MWD's books or anything that will prepare me to communicate and better relate with H or others. It does get your mind busy with proactive thoughts.
Keep posting and reading! You will learn so much from those who are on these boards. So supportive. Merry Christmas!
I noticed in your sig line that there are second thoughts and considering R. That's great news. I REALLY hope it works out for you. What do you think changed for you guys that made that possible?
MB...H started having second thoughts as soon as I stopped fighting the separation and we officially started the legal process. Things are still very fragile, but I am hopeful.
Hi mb
Great job i think the no contact is hard after they were your partner for so long.
You did well on the first meeting and maybe he saw a little change in your attitude or behaviour
It needs to be said that we cant fix our partners issues or problems, they chose to leave and need to work out what it is the want. Sometimes the grass isnt greener it is still the same personal issues just with a different person or environment
Its a long road to walk dont let a little hiccup set you back!
Brad
MB, how are things going?
Sigh......... Okay, I'm back here. I'm confused, in shock, angry, hurt, devastated, etc...etc...etc. Not sure what to think. Not sure what to do. Not sure what the hell happened! Got the rug pulled out from under me again. Didn't expect it. Guess I should have, but just didn't want to see it coming I guess.
I had been doing well (on the outside) with the no contact. Went for about 5 weeks, then just had to go see him. So, I did. He apparently had missed me a LOT and thought I had moved on and wasn't ever coming back. We had a great visit and the next day he broke things off with the OW. We began spending time together and we're seeing each other every day. He was great at first. I checked phone records and there were no calls to or from the OW and I was really starting to let my guard down a bit. We had a nice Christmas together (Or, I thought so anyway). He even bought me a beautiful (not cheap!) ring that he wanted me to wear as a wedding ring while I'm at work since I can't wear my other one while working. There were a few red flags, but I thought we could talk through them. He was becoming a bit controlling again by not wanting me to ride to work with my friend (female), and kept saying that "nothing had changed" like I promised it would. But, things HAVE changed. I'm wondering if he was referring to my children (all teenagers 18 and older). Said I had so much "drama" that surrounds me which isn't even remotely true. But, he said he wasn't sure he could handle the drama. He agreed to go to a counseling meeting with me last Wednesday. I thought it went well. I really did! He did mention the drama thing to the counselor, but couldn't be specific about what he was talking about. I worked the next night and then went to see him Friday afternoon after I woke up. He just seemed kind of withdrawn and quiet. Stupid me, I ASKED him what was wrong. That's when it happened. He pulled the rug right out from under me again. Said he needed some time alone and just wasn't able to deal with our relationship. WTF!?!? I, of course, in all my calmness and DB ways began crying and begging him not to do this to me/us again. In my head I was screaming STFU!! But, out of my mouth it came our more like begging and pleading. What was I thinking!
He really and truly seemed hurt and torn and the more upset I got, the harder it was for him. He was sitting there with tears in his eyes and looked like he was about to jump out of his skin. He looked like he was about to go into a full panic attack every time I even tried to touch his hand. As hard as it was for ME to hear that from me, my heart really went out to him. Not sure why I have to care so much more about everyone else than I do about myself. Anyway, when I didn't leave, he started putting his shoes on and said he was going to leave and go for a drive because he just couldn't stay there. I told him he didn't have to leave, that I would go. This is the absolute freaking best part here......
We were both standing in the middle of the floor and I was telling him goodbye...gave him a hug and a kiss and was reassuring him that everything would be okay. Then, there was a knock on the door. He went to answer it and I could just hear him ask the person what they were doing there. Then, he stepped aside and let them in. It was HER. The OW. Right there in the house with me and my H. I could tell by the look on his face that he didn't. Know she was going to be in town (she lives 5 hrs away). I was just frozen in shock. Didn't have a clue what to do. She walked right past me and said "HI!' In the most Phony and bubbly voice ever. Then, she went to his bathroom to get her bathrobe and curling iron that she had left there a couple of weeks ago. Seriously, a 5 hr drive for a robe and curling iron? I just felt like I was going to die right then and there. I got so nauseated and felt like I had just been ran over by a truck. She had to have seen my car there. Why would she stop? What was she trying to accomplish? WHY did he let her in the house? And, more importantly, why was he trying to replace me with someone that looked so TRASHY?
I talked to him for just a few minutes after that and then I left and so did he. As far as I know, he didn't get home till after midnight. I cried till my eyes were so swollen I could hardly see. They are still swollen today. Lovely look for me! I got up today and took a shower, got ready, and then went over there. He wasn't home. I tried to call him twice today with NO answer. I guess I have no choice but to start the 180 again.
This is SO unfair! We were doing so well, what happened? I just can't start this all over again. Dear God, someone please tell me that ther is something I can do. I am tired f being lonely,, sad, alone, etc. If anyone has any advice or words or wisdom, please shar them with me.
He really did seem like a scared little boy last night. Someone that just can't see a way out of their despair and confusion. He kept apologizing to me for doing this again after he promised me he wouldn't. Please help...I'm feeling desperate again over here.
Oh, I didn't mention, during those 2 weeks that we were "back together," he wanted us to move back in together and move forward with our relationship. HE was the one pushing for us to be together, not me. He was asking me to do things with him and wanted me to be around full time in the same house. Why the heck would he want that one day, then decide he wasn't sure again? He never actually said (yet) that he doesn't want to see or talk to me like he did the first time. He just kept saying that nothing had changed and that the relationship was stressing him out to the point where he was having a hard time holding himself together. He has taken up smoking, which is something he gave up 12 years ago. He continues to dip, now smokes, and said the only other thing he could think of to help him to calm down would be to start drinking. I offered to make him a DR appointment, but he hates doctors and hates medication. He also refused to go to individual counseling. He said over and over that he knew that the way is is feeling is HIM and nothing to do with me. He said that he had tried to replace me with the OW and then realize that the same problems were in that relationship as well. At that point, he knew that it was HIM and not US. I am a logical thinking and problem solving kind of person. I KNOW that I can't solve his problems, but it seems like there should be some sort of way to point him in the right direction. Any thoughts?
Hi MB...wow. That is a saga in 2 weeks. Sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted it to. Honestly I don't know how you were able to handle the ow waltzing in like that.
I'm sure a few vets will chime in soon. Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you.
I have been reading up on T0324. Recommended reading to see how someone was able to bust their D. So far I see that the things you and I have been doing, especially NOT focusing on ourselves and only on our Hs and also not GAL is working against us. I have finally started to do some things for me.
I hope someone else comes along soon to guide you.
Rain
Rain, good to hear from you again! Yes, it was SOOO hard to watch her waltz past me not once but twice. And, she was so F***ING bubbly an cheerful every time she went by. I really just wanted to hit her. I felt likeI was going to throw up the whole time. I just stood there hurt and completely speechless. Just seeing her in the house...standing by MY husband. I really just wanted to die right then and there.
I tried to call him today. No answer. Went by there and he wasn't home. So, I went to my mom's house to visit. When I got ready to come home, my car wouldn't start. My dad worked on it for over an hour, but I needed a new battery. I didn't call H because I knew he wouldn't answer, so I texted him and told him my car wouldn't start and that I was stranded. I asked if he could help me. He texted back almost immediately and then bought a battery and brought it to me and put it on. I know, I know....I was using that to make him feel needed and also to get to see him (although I really DID need his help) and I probably shoudln't have done that. Afterwards, I asked him if I could ride home with him. He agreed so I gave my daughter the keys to my car and rode home with him. The ride was QUIET and awkward which still makes no sense to me since just a couple of days ago he wanted to live with me and be a happily married couple. Anyway, herolled his eyes when I tried to hold his hand, and acted completely put out when I asked for a kiss. I kept thinking STFU, but couldn't stop myself. I questioned him and made him feel very uncomfortable and I'm sure very sorry that he ever came to my rescue. What is wrong with me?!?! I'm a pretty smart girl, but it just seems a bit difficult for me to change gears that fast. UGH! Anyway, by the time I got out of the car, I somehow pressured him into admitting that he doesn't want to be married to me now or ever again, nor does he want to be married to anyone else. Pretty much RIGHT BACK AT SQUARE ONE with him. This is exactly how he was before. Doesn't want any contact...no phone calls, no seeing each other, no texting, no anything. WTF?!!! He did smile when I asked if he wanted to live with me and NOT be married. LOL. Sigh.... Not sure where to go from here. I really did not see this coming. Not even a little bit!
Well, today is another day and the REstart of my 180. Having a hard time with the thought of having to do it again. Seems so cruel that he made me believe that he wanted me back and wanted to save our marriage, only to be cast back into the depths of despair, loneliness and feelings of desperation. It was a REALLY nice 11 day reprieve that I had, but now the reality has hit me once again and The pain is almost unbearable. Why? Why? Why? The thing is, he was talking to me with tears in his eyes and I could see the pain it was causing him as he apologized over and over. Just don't understand WHY he is doing this when it doesn't seem to be what he really wants. Sigh...... I want to call him so bad it I know that I can't. I just wonder if he will change his mind and decide to work on us again?
MB, as you know I am not a vet or a success story, nowhere even near close to that at all. But i have been reading a lot. On my own as well as threads here. Who knows what was going on in your Hs mind. Why he didn't want you thrn seemingly did a few weeks later only to decide again that he doesn't.
My untrained eye sees he missed you and wanted your marriage again (even if it was short-lived) when he thought you were done with him. When he believed you were GAL and moving on. However since you actually weren't doing those things (no judgement i haven't been either) you may have jumped back in too quickly. If that is what happened you relinquished all of your power
I'm hoping others with actual hard won experience and solution oriented advice jump in here soon.
Trying to hold his hand and asking for a kiss were perhaps foolish. I know its hard not to. It killed me not to do anything affectionate over Christmas. But I didn't and you know what? He did after the 1st day. It was nicer that way. Him seeking me out. Did it last? Nope. But I'm glad I didn't initiate.
As you know from my thread I mess up..a. Lot. Have you read Pinks thread? Or t0324s? Rouky and also gmum... If not you should. So many others I've come across too..just cant remember the names.
The general theme is that once the LBS focuses on GAL and drops the rope they feel better about themselves. Some have moved on, gotten a D. Some have reconciled. But either way they were/are happier. Thats food for thought. At least to me.
Keep hope alive dear MB
Rain