Hello,
I feel like I'm in the middle of a nightmare - and it's one that I've created.
I am the cheater. I've been married for twelve years, together for thirteen. For the past two months I've had a full-on affair with an old classmate. Prior to that, I had an on-again off-again emotional affair with the father of my eldest son, but that's been completely over for three years. So needless to say, my husband has been through a lot with me.
We started therapy last week, and my husband has come to the conclusion that he wants a divorce. He says he can't stand the pain anymore and just does not feel safe with me.
I had a total breakdown after being faced with the reality of my actions. I felt like I was living in a fog before, unsure of what I wanted, sometimes even feeling like I was two different people. My therapist recommended I do an in-patient or intense out-patient treatment, due to traumas/addictions that I've never fully dealt with that probably fueled my actions (affairs). I start October 18th with that.
During our last session, I was such a mess that my husband agreed to slow down the process, but now that a few days have gone by, I feel that the only reason he did that was so that I could be relatively healthy for our four children and not the emotional wreck I was becoming after the divorce talk. (He had to leave on a 5-day business trip and I'm obviously the sole caretaker)
I have intense anxiety and OCD, so I know these are coming into play here, and I may be obsessing/worrying about a future that I know nothing about.
He is extremely hurt/angry/etc., but still says he loves me. I feel unsure of how to act around him, what the right thing to do/say is. Any help is appreciated. I know I am the cheater, but I do want to save my marriage and am willing to work on myself so I can be a wife he can trust again.
Welcome to the board.
As most of the advice is geared toward the LBS and we do not get as many WAW here I dont want you to be put off by some of the advice you may get.
My first suggestion is to read Divorce Remedy and then I might suggest you read Sandi's thread as she was a WAW that came here and saved her marriage.
It is going to take a lot of hard work.
Is that something you want to do?
Sandi's first thread
Here is my standard welcome post too with all the homework.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Klassic, I am so sorry for the hurt you and your H are experiencing. The ones who are the "cheaters" are rare on the board, but you will still get a lot of support here. These folks are great! You can learn a lot from the other men who have been in the same boat as your H.
FWIW, I was a cheater, too. This board actually helped me get my head on straight and I stayed with my H. That was back in 2007. I hung around to hopefully help others. So, there is hope for you and your M.
You are very scared right now. Your H is extremely hurt. When men are betrayed, it hits their male ego harder than just about anything in life. Actually, your H is doing pretty close to what I try to get the LBH's here to see. If you were not scared of losing him, and he treated you like an entitled princess, I doubt you would be feeling what you are right now. It's the loss that gets our attention.
I encourage you to take care of your own mental and physical health. I am sure you will have plenty to tell us later. I don't think anyone here will judge you. We all learn from each other. Try not to be clingy and smother your H. He needs some space and time in his man cave to sort things out in his head/heart, without you pressuring him. If he asks questions, answer them as honestly as you can. Do not ever lie to him, b/c it will be the undoing of the string that's holding this M together.
Have you been in other affairs in the past? Did your current H know about the EA with your XH?
Was the classmate a one time thing? Are you still in contact with him?
He says he can't stand the pain anymore and just does not feel safe with me.
Hummm....that almost sounds like an answer that would have been suggested from the board.
Well, you never know. He may be around here looking for answers, too.
These may be difficult to questions to answer, but we need to know some history.
Are you staying in the home, presently? Is your H being nice to you? Has he ever been violent?
What emotional needs have you felt were not being met by your H? You turned to other men. Why? What was lacking in your MR?
Please post often. The more you post, the more replies you will likely receive. This will take more time than you ever thought. It's slow, painful, and worth the work.
((Klassic)) Work on yourself before you try to fix the MR.
Thanks, Cadet.
I am extremely willing to put the work in. Unfortunately there are a host of issues mainly dealing with my mental health that I am afraid it may all be too much for him to continue.
I look forward to any responses, feedback is appreciated.
there are a host of issues mainly dealing with my mental health that I am afraid it may all be too much for him to continue.
My mother is bipolar and so is my daughter, my wife was depressed so I totally understand.
The work has to start with YOU.
Glad Sandi found your thread, you can get some good advice here.
My first suggestion is to read Divorce Remedy
I agree with this. Start from there to learn all the steps.
You may be interested to watch the TED talk by Esther Perel on infidelity. As an LBH, I found it very interesting, but I think it may help you to see the other side as well.
Welcome, Klassic! Im sorry youre here, but now that you are, you can make the most of it.
Sandi2,
I'm not sure how to quote, so I will answer your questions in this space.
I have had one other EA, emotional only, on and off for about six years. That was the father of my son. My husband knows about it. There were three times during the course of our marriage where I got drunk and kissed a random man. Sick, I know, but I'm hoping to deal with my addiction finally, as well.
This last affair was the first "real deal" affair I've had. Lasted two months, and totally crossed every line I never should have crossed. I have cut off all contact with him, even deleting my social media accounts so he can't reach me.
I am still at home, sleeping in the same bed as H. H is nearly perfect, no violence, always trying to help "fix" me and my problems. I have no complaints, so I know my affairs make no sense....they don't even to me. I don't believe anything was missing from my marriage - I do think my range of issues are to blame - everything from my OCD to depression to alcoholism. My therapist is helping me make sense of this ridiculous cycle of sabotage I am in, but I'm afraid this is just too much for him to handle.
After years of trying to help me become healthy, I turned from and betrayed him again. I see it for what it is, yet I also know there's deeper stuff going on from traumas that I haven't had the courage to deal with in the past. (i'm not excusing my behavior, just trying to make all the pieces fit so I can make sense of it all)
So my questions are -
-Do I let him go and focus on the work to make myself healthy and clean?
-Do I let him know how much I will work on myself to stop my destructive behaviors but still ask him to try to work it out with me during the process?
-Do I let him know it's all up to him?
I don't want to be insensitive to his needs, but I do love him and don't want him to leave. I know he has every right to leave, and I wouldn't blame him if he did, but I feel like if I can work through the issues I can be the kind of person and wife he'd be proud to have. I am utterly lost.
Thank you for a warm welcome.
I just watched that video this morning, profound.
Hi Klassic! Your H has already agreed to slow everything down. Take the time,
right now, to work on you. You need to do this for yourself without delay. You can't even truly begin to work on your R successfully unless you are coming from a healthy place to start with.
I would let H know that you need to make yourself healthy before you can even approach D talk. Since he wants out, you need to focus on getting as strong as you can in order to be a successful single parent. After that (letting him know), no talks about M or D!
You need to be the priority at the moment. I struggle with similar issues and completely understand the havoc created. Fix yourself, first. Then move on to R.
Who knows? H might change his mind if he witnesses you really doing the work for permanent change.
Keep in mind...this work will never end. Now that you know, don't ever let yourself forget. It's the difference between a happy, healthy life and a sad, miserable existence. It doesn't always seem fair, but all people have something they need to deal with in life. This is your struggle - but completely worth winning.
1. Listen to the experts here.
2. Don't throw out too many words right now. He's not going to believe you. Only actions that he can see will have any positive impact on him. Words only matter when there is trust and right now there is zero trust.
3. Again, read the links people here are providing to you and take their advice.
It seems we all agree about not discussing the MR right now. Don't be asking him what he's going to do, if he's leaving, etc. Although you may feel nervous and insecure, try your best not to show it to him.
I believe the best way is for him to see the work you are doing. No putting pressure on him. No breaking down in front of him. No asking him questions, but answer whatever he asks you. No fretting in his presence. These are a lot of "no's" but they are a lot of work to do.
I have not had experience with OCD, so I can't help you there. I have had depression most of my adult life. It doesn't disappear. It has to be managed with medication.
Did your first H leave you?
Just offering morale support. As an LBH I can feel the pain your H is feeling with your A. Follow the advice and stay true to your convictions of trying to make the M work. It's a long road but a worth while one
Take care. Rd
Hi Klassic, I just wanted to welcome you to the forum. It is good to see someone who has cheated posting here and I'm pleased to see the warm welcome you have received from others. I think it takes courage for posting as you have and I applaud you for it.
As you say, if your H and you decide to try and repair things, there is much to overcome. But it is possible and people do it. It is promising that your H tells you he still loves you. However, he will be in a lot of pain and may not be able to decide to recommit just yet.
That's okay, because you have some areas that you need to work on and I'm glad you are getting the support you need. You mentioned that others (your H, your therapist) are trying to help, but you're not sure they can handle things. Is that a fear for you, that no-one will be up to that job, and what will happen then?
Can you tell us a little more about the issues from your past that you believe have contributed to your current mental heath and infidelity my friend?
Stick with us, and if you want an example of someone who has travelled this difficult road and come out the other side, it's Sandi.
Take care xx
Thanks for the support and advice. I know I have lots of work ahead of me, but you're right - it's a long road but worth it not only for the hope of saving my marriage but for myself.
Never thought I'd be in an online forum posting about my mental "stuff," but life is funny that way, isn't it?
Well to start, and to not bombard you all with loads of backstory, I grew up in a domestic violent home. My parents both cheated on one another repeatedly, and my dad was an extreme womanizer (probably some sort of sex addiction tbh, but don't know for sure).
I began an addiction to porn somewhere between the ages of 6-8 (my parent's stash), and that continued until my early adulthood. I know this has affected my views and disposition toward sex and relationships, didn't need a therapist to tell me that!
Aside from these, have major issues with shame/guilt/and of course anxiety.
There's much more, as life has all sorts of pathways and connections from one event to another, but those are a couple that I know have hindered my ability to be in an create a healthy relationship.
Thanks for all he feedback from all of you who have posted. I will keep the advice close.
Hope it's okay to post repeatedly. :-/
Anyhow, H is on a business trip and texts me in the morning to say "good morning" and will call once during the day to talk to the kids and once at night to talk to me and go over his feelings for the day.
I want to text him sometimes just to let him know I'm thinking about him, or to say hi, but I don't know if that's a good idea. I am afraid to do/say anything without him coming to me first. I told him I loved him in my last text to him and he didn't reply. I felt so stupid and wonder if I shouldn't go there at all right now.
As usual, any help/thoughts are appreciated.
Hi Klassic - it's okay to post as much as you need...there's no limit. The forum is open 24/7 and there is always someone here.
I'm sorry to hear about your family circumstances. That must have been tough, and we all do our best with the hand of cards we are dealt. Sometimes as kids, the coping mechanisms we develop make sense at the time, but don't serve us well as we get older.
I think you need to have a therapist you have confidence in. Does yours have particular experience in your own area of need? Also, you mention shame and I wonder if you might find Brene Brown's two TED talks helpful?
WRT contact with your H. I would remain responsive and friendly to his contact, but if you initiate ILYs and he doesn't respond, I would back off from that and keep it at a lighter level. It sounds like he may need some time and space to process things.
My take on this is that his greatest fear will be going down this same (infidelity) road again as he has been deeply hurt (I'm speaking from my own experience here.)
For me, I would need to know that there has been a deep realisation that infidelity was not the answer to life's troubles and that my H was willing to dig deep within to understand why this happened. I would also need to know that my H was truly remorseful and willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild things. A huge part of that would be no contact with OP - which you have already done. Good for you and sustaining that is paramount.
I would focus on your own work just now, and on getting yourself to a healthier place. Give your H some space and time, but remain responsive when he gets in touch.
Take care and keep moving forward - you're doing well xx
Klassic,
You definitely need to focus on yourself and getting to the healthiest place you can be and you need to do it for YOU. It may help you to reconcile your M but right now YOU are the priority. If you really have no complaints about the M or your H but you continue to seek happiness elsewhere it is either because of your OCD/Alcoholism/depression/past traumas or because there really is something missing in the M for you. Being great doesn't mean they are meeting your most important needs. However, there is a good chance it is from other issues. Either way, you need to address them so you can be the healthiest, happiest you regardless of your M. Once you start working on you, you can think about restoring your M...and many times, taking that step to work on yourself makes the spouse take notice and they aren't so quick to give up. Honestly, I would tell him you realize you need to work on yourself, tell him exactly what you have figured out and need to do (that helpedmy M a lot, explain your plan to get help and be a better you and that you hope he sticks with the M while you do this. And be honest with yourself about him. Maybe he is perfect, I don't know, but if he is contributing to the downfall of your M you need to recognize how and deal with that at some point.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I enter the intensive out-patient facility on the 18th, which will give me a huge head start on finally working on myself. I'm also doing bi-weekly sessions with my therapist (who is amazing) and will see a psychiatrist on Wednesday to finally try some anti-anxiety meds. I had put off meds for years as I never wanted to be "dependent" on a substance, yet I was an alcoholic at the same time! smh
I didn't get a text from H yesterday (except good morning one) and so finally around 7:00pm (10:00pm his time) I asked how his day was going. We exchanged a few pleasantries, then he said he would call me in 30 min.
Our conversation turned into the usual - how we are feeling that particular day about everything. He told me he felt like there was a war going on inside of him. One side is his mind, wanting to protect him from me, and telling him he'd be a fool to stay. The other is his heart which is telling him to stay because he's still deeply in love with me, and can't imagine living life without me as his wife. Hearing him say that gave me hope and honestly felt so good.
He then said that no matter what he would always be my friend, he would always be there to help me in any way he could, and that when he comes home from his trip he just needs to hold me all night because he misses me and is so sad.
So - that felt like his previous statement about his heart went out the door and that he knows he is going to go through with the divorce. I then made a huge mistake and said, "I think we both know where this is going..."
He agreed, which threw all hope out the window and I just got upset at that and said that I will start to look for places (to rent) so we can get the ball moving. Then we hung up and I had a meltdown. I sent him a long text (i know, another big mistake) telling him that I won't be selfish and stop him from having a better life, and that he can be glad to finally be rid of his "f*cked up wife." I know I shouldn't have done that, and rereading it later, it felt pathetic.
I'm in a very low place right now. Looking online for homes while my girls sleep in my bed with me was too much to handle (he doesn't want them to leave their home, so I will be living by myself).
Update - H just called right now and asked me to please wait on looking for a house, and to take a day off from all this drama. He told me to try to have a positive outlook and not to worry about anything right now. He also told me that he "can't stand the thought of losing" me and that he loves me. I'm afraid to get my hopes up, but it was what I needed to hear.
So I think the key everyone keeps pointing to is work on myself and remain friendly (regardless of how I feel) to H. I've read in other threads about looking good, exercising, etc. Does that apply to my case since I am the cheater and also the one who wants to work it out??? I already exercise 5x/week, but have nearly stopped since IDTB. I haven't been doing my hair/makeup, but not sure if any of that even matters since my case is slightly unique.
Thank you all for your support. Means so much.
Classic, your H does not sound like he's ready to completely give up. Don't change anything right now except you. He's struggling with his choice. Work on yourself and give him reason to hope!
Yes, look as nice as you can. It's great for your self-esteem. You've really had some struggles, and right now...let it be about you. You are in no position to make any decisions about your future. Your H is giving you time...take him up on it, and do what you need to do. Until you address your issues (remember, I struggle with similar challenges) your R will not have a fighting chance. You need to be in a good place mentally and emotionally, and it will take some work to get there.
You are so lucky your H obviously still cares for you. My issues with depression have all but killed my M. I'm working on it, but it takes time to rebuild trust. My situation is a bit different, but I can understand the toll depression takes on a marriage, particularly if it is untreated and leads to really bad decisions.
You're in a better place than you realize. Give yourself permission to take a time-out on working on your M and use that time to address YOU. You will never regret it. Your entire life will change for the better, that includes parenting, relationships, and how you feel about yourself.
Please forgive yourself, too. You're doing what you need to get a handle on your life now. Let the old stuff go and focus on the future. You can only go forward.
Then we hung up and I had a meltdown. I sent him a long text (i know, another big mistake) telling him that I won't be selfish and stop him from having a better life, and that he can be glad to finally be rid of his "f*cked up wife." I know I shouldn't have done that, and rereading it later, it felt pathetic.
You are right, it was a big mistake. You used that old female manipulation of wanting him to tell you that you're wrong and he won't be glad to finally be rid of his f*ucked up wife. Yes, it was you trying to get him to say what you wanted to hear. You wanted him to assure you. Well, here is a piece of reality. You are not the spouse who gets to be assured. You sc@wed up and you are the one who has to put on her big girl panties now. Stop saying things to him, trying to get him to assure you that he loves you and he'll stay with you.
I don't know a lot about some of the issues you have, but I know women! I know how we operate. So, you have to stop this pathetic behavior with your H. You are simply giving him more reason to want to be glad to get rid of you! Become a woman he would fight the demons of hell to have. You start by using solutions you are given, instead of just giving over to your feelings and then say, "I know, it was wrong....but", or "I know a mistake.....but".
You will have a lot of help from professionals, as well as from the board. You will be wise and get healthy if you cooperate. I am not fusing at you or picking on you, I will be very plain spoken with you. When you are acting pathetic, I'll tell you. When you need someone to understand from a WW's point of view, I'm your gal. I will be honest and I will try to help, but you have to help yourself. I am very pleased to see Lovethehub reply to your thread. She can be extremely helpful, if you will listen to her.
I am truly sorry for your childhood trama and all the bad things you were exposed to as a little girl. It sounds as if you will have several professionals working with you. Please stick with it and do this for yourself, your children, and all those who love you. Taking medication, at this point, should be the least of your worries.
The most common statement I here from newcomers is, "This is so hard!". Yes, it is. In your case, it may be harder than some others. I said I'd be honest, and I will. I believe you can do the necessary work and have a good future with your H. Hard? Most certainly. Possible! Most certainly.
Okay, so take a deep breath, get a hold of yourself, and be determined that you will stop emotionally pressuring your H. Right now, he still cares enough to want you to get healthy, and he has offered to be a friend. That is more than a lot of men would do. Do NOT take advantage of his offer of friendship. Friendship does not mean the same as "husband".
Start with this: 1) Do not initiate any contact with him. Let him contact you. 2). Do not ask him how he feels. It leads to relationship talk and that leads to worse.
Can you do these two things?
I can do these two things, but am worried he will think I don't care if I don't ever send a text or make a phone call. I will trust you on this, but it certainly feels intimidating.
If he asks me how I'm feeling, do I hide true emotions if I'm sad and just act like I'm fine? Wouldn't it seem insensitive to not ask him how he feels in return? Or did you just mean refrain from asking on my own (with no prompting from him)?
Not sure what you mean by friendship doesn't equal husband. If he wants to be close/kiss/etc., what's your advice on how to respond? I don't want to reject him, that would seem counterproductive. But I don't know.
I am grateful for your wisdom and advice.
I'm not Sandi, but I'm pretty confident about answering.
She means stops pursuing your H. Let him call or text you. If he does, answer, by all means.
Until you start your therapy - just tell him you're feeling hopeful every time he asks how you're feeling. Do what you can to portray positive. The goal is to make you look good! You want to show progress and make him doubt the wisdom of leaving. You can certainly ask about him,
in return. Otherwise, it feels like pressure/pursuit.
Friendship doesn't equal husband based on the level of commitment. Follow his lead on this - you don't have to reject him, just don't be the one to start anything. You want to avoid coming across as needy and pressuring him to stay with you.
So, to make it simple - It's a dance. He leads. You follow.
How's that?
I understand, and I hope you can trust this process. You are the one wanting to save the M, and at the moment, he's not sure he can go on with it. The only way to draw him closer, instead of pushing him away, is to not apply any emotional pressure.
He sounds like a good man, who feels obligation. So, it will be tempting for you to play on those obligations. For your own sake, don't remind him of his obligations, b/c he will resent you. You want this good man to want to stay in the M for one reason........b/c he loves the way a man loves a woman. Not out of duty, not out of sympathy, not out of guilt, but b/c he desires you above all others.
The advice you get may be very opposite from what your feelings tell you to do. It is b/c of those very feelings that you can't rely upon them to dictate what you should do. I really do understand more than you may realize, and I want to see you succeed.
As weird or unusual as this may seem, he does not need you initiating contacts throughout the day and/or night. He needs some space and time to clear his head, and most of all, to see this is not just your emotions talking. A person in his position tends to shut out what he is hearing from his W. Do not worry that he will think you don't care. At the present time, I don't think his issue is about you caring for him. It is more about him feeling betrayed. (Men are kind of like wounded animals when they are hurt, and they have to go off and be alone to heal. If you push, he will likely bite.) Seeing you repeatily going through these emotional upheavals has taken a toll over time. His mind and his own emotions need to rest a bit, okay? He needs to see you follow through with the professional care that is available.
If he asks me how I'm feeling, do I hide true emotions if I'm sad and just act like I'm fine?
First of all, when he asks how you feel, he doesn't mean it how you take him to mean it. He is not inviting you to go over everything again, nor get into another relationship talk. Didn't you tell him how you felt? And one thing led to another until it ended badly.
Normally, we tell people to not show their sadness, worry, depression, and other negative feelings. In your case, and until your therapist gives you further advice, I think if your response should be a somber, "I feel very determined to do what is necessary to heal from my issues, and to become a much better person". (or something similar, just don't get too far off). You see, this does not say anything about who did what. It doesn't ask him what he's going to do, how he feels about the M, etc. You don't mention the MR.
Let him lead the conversation. Don't ask him ANYTHING about his feelings. Talk about the kids, the weather, what was done during the day, but do not mention his or your feelings.
Wouldn't it seem insensitive to not ask him how he feels in return? Or did you just mean refrain from asking on my own (with no prompting from him)?
It would be insensitive if you did pry and ask about his feelings. Give the man breathing room. Yes, refrain from talking about anyone's feelings. But if he doesn't ask, do not say anything right now. You cannot smother him.
You do not have to jump around acting silly and giddy. He is aware of your problems. The best thing you can do is to work at staying calm. No hysterics, no threatening, no fits, no begging, etc. Just be calm. Stay away from relationship talks.
Not sure what you mean by friendship doesn't equal husband. If he wants to be close/kiss/etc., what's your advice on how to respond? I don't want to reject him, that would seem counterproductive. But I don't know.
Anyone can be a friend. Only one person can be your husband. Him offering to be there as your friend is not the same thing as being there as your H. Do not take advantage of him being a friend to you, during this time. (I normally tell LBH'S not to accept being a WW's friend). Considering your situation, I want you to understand that if you try to manipulate him, you will loose.
No, of course do not reject him. The wayward is in no position to reject the betrayed spouse. Do not reject his friendship, either. You were the one who did wrong, and so you do not reject his friendship, if he chooses to give it. I am saying this for the sake of any other readers who may be, or was, the wayward spouse and is now wanting to save the M. one of the dynamic differences in men and women is that whenever a woman puts her H in the "friend zone" instead of desiring him as her H......it is hard for him to change her mind/feelings and see him as a desirable man. However, I think it's different when turned around. I believe, b/c of the makeup of a man, that he can change over from the friend status to lover, a lot easier........and faster.
You have a lot of information to learn. Don't get frantic. We are going to help you. Your doctors are going to help you. ((Klassic)) You can do this. You can make it.
Your situation is a little different from the majority of people here, and I don't want a passerby reader being confused by this advice. I am glad you asked, and please ask whenever I do not make myself clear.
The dance analogy helps tremendously. Thank you.
What an incredible asset you are to this forum. Thank you for taking the time to leave such an in-depth response.
Everything you said makes sense. I get it now. I know I'm facing a long road ahead of me, but I'm confident I can do this now more than ever. Funny how hope can come in small, power-packed bursts just after thinking all is lost.
I wish I could print out these replies and tape them to my vanity. (NOT going to do that, lol, but sure would be nice to have easy access to them.) I think the best way to remember it is the dance analogy from above. He leads, I follow.
Some people print out certain posts and place in a notebook.
Some copy a post they like and past in a Microsoft Word document.
Hi there,
Wondering what everyone's opinion is on sex with a WAH. He still wants to, but is afraid he'll hurt me and give me false hope. Should I stay away or give in?
Super confused.
What would you gain from it knowing that he's just using you?
What is your goal in doing it? It's definitely not going to cause him to reconsider...
Has he been tested for HIV, how do you know he is safe?
If your H is telling you right up front that it doesn't mean anything, then he's basically just using you to satisfy himself. I know it's hard (BELIEVE ME, I KNOW!) but I wouldn't want to do it under those circumstances. I think afterward I would feel horrible that I let myself be used in such a way. Of course, I've been so incredibly lonely and panicked lately that I can't be positive what my answer would be, but I do know that it would make me feel used after it was all over with. And, at that point, you're not going to be any better off than you are right now, but you're going to feel bad about yourseld. I'd say pass on it.
If he's been having sex elsewhere, the possibility of his contracting an STD is real. My W cheated on me and got genital herpes...incurable. I did not get it luckily.
Don't take chances with your health.
I guess I should have included more info. I had the affair, but am the one who wants to save my marriage. He says he loves me but can't be with me because he needs peace in his life. I feel desperate and willing to do anything. Just didn't know if sex is typically considered off-limits.
Thanks for all the replies. I think you are all right.
I would think that if he's not made a clear choice to be committed to you, then having sex with him just makes things complicated and more difficult for everyone involved.
I would think if the situation changes, you both are committed to the M and both of your actions back up your words over whatever period of time you think is necessary, then I would say, Have at it at that point. But not before. Just my opinion.
I still have sex with H, not regularly, but on occasion and yes, I feel used. He is the one who had the EA, I am 90% sure I believe him that it wasn't physical so I am not worried about stds.
I only do it for the physical release, try to shut my brain off, I have mixed feelings about this as I have a healthy sex drive and find it very hard to go without for long periods of time. My H does not pressure me at all, in fact I think he could go without and be fine that way.
Klassic, I am definitely not holding myself out as the example here, I'm weeks away from my D being final. But I'll tell you what I felt was right. After BD but as long as we lived together, I continued to be a wife in all ways including regular sex. It was something I wanted, I never felt used or resentful and I also didn't believe it was going to keep him. It was for me. I didn't initiate any of it, but I didn't turn it down either. After he moved out, that was the end, even though on more than one occasion I could have made ever so slight of an effort and we would have without a doubt ended up in bed. I point out the difference here because moving out was the dividing line for me. My choice. Whatever you decide, make it your choice.
Sunny, my H hasn't moved out so maybe I can look at it the same way as you do. For me the feeling "used" is because he won't kiss me. Or rather, he will but it is the most shallow non passionate kiss you could imagine. It makes me feel more disconnected from him. I do want the sex, but the awful kisses just kind of ruin it for me.
Pho, only do that if it feels authentic to you. I have come to see that I'm not the norm in the sex department. Stay true to yourself on this. I only spoke up to point out that there is no one right answer.
I am not the norm either Sunny, I am more like a guy.
And anyone who says sex drive dies with age in women, have little knowledge of the role of fantasy and vibrators.
Use it or lose it. So even during the dry spells keep the apparatus working the physiological and the mechanical.
One day I may find a new partner to enjoy the spice, ML is important for health, I truly believe that.
Like Sunny, (I remember the Xmas naughty undies Sunny, I went out and treated myself after our convo), my drive is high and I am an initiator. Until this R that has always worked very well indeed.
I am not anti ML, just be safe and if thats what YOU want, not just to repair your M and be without expevtations. It can be healing. Get yourself tested if you had the A, proves you are serious about your H. Then go ahead.
I only stopped with my WH following a rather forceful encounter when WH was slightly the worst for wear, which was rather abusive, so I decided no more.
V
Sunny, my H hasn't moved out so maybe I can look at it the same way as you do. For me the feeling "used" is because he won't kiss me. Or rather, he will but it is the most shallow non passionate kiss you could imagine. It makes me feel more disconnected from him. I do want the sex, but the awful kisses just kind of ruin it for me.
Depends on the position taken!
I thought of Liam.
V
I have been thinking on this. I really, really, really like sex and have a good sex drive. So when I get the rare opportunity with H I go for it, but lately it leaves me feeling an emotional void because 1- there is no ILY, and 2- no good kissing. So do I just say no until I get those things? Keep in mind if I hold out I may never get some again as long as I am M to H.
I don't want to ask for an ILY because that seems like I am playing games. I can ask for the kissing because that is a physical thing, I have asked for it during and he puts a little more into it but not to the degree that I want. So if the opportunity arises, what can say without sounding pathetic or manipulative? Do I just stfu?
I have been thinking on this. I really, really, really like sex and have a good sex drive. So when I get the rare opportunity with H I go for it, but lately it leaves me feeling an emotional void because 1- there is no ILY, and 2- no good kissing. So do I just say no until I get those things? Keep in mind if I hold out I may never get some again as long as I am M to H.
I don't want to ask for an ILY because that seems like I am playing games. I can ask for the kissing because that is a physical thing, I have asked for it during and he puts a little more into it but not to the degree that I want. So if the opportunity arises, what can say without sounding pathetic or manipulative? Do I just stfu?
Frankly I would just tell him.
H, I really really really like having ML with you and am thinking we should ML more often. I am like many women finding foreplay is important to switching on my desire and a very important part of that for me is kissing. So kissing and ML are important to my desire, can you help me with this by kissing more? If you can then that will increase our ML.
I am sure others have better words!
V
V, he has a very low sex drive, and probably would be fine without. He gets into it halfway through the act.
Then what turns him on?
I could always get my H going with oral sex. Worked every time!
He kisses you and you kiss him, or words to that effect.
V
Also I don't really call it ML, as I said I am more like a man in this regard. Dammit, I should just get what I can when I can and stop thinking about it.
I can pretty much take what I want when I want it, but it isn't much fun to feel like there is no emotional connection there.
Also I don't really call it ML, as I said I am more like a man in this regard. Dammit, I should just get what I can when I can and stop thinking about it.
Yep.
Perhaps calling it sex rather than ML makes him think it's functional. I have high drive, I remember WH telling me not again V, it's too much.
Yes sweetheart take what you can get. The Nike principle.
Switch on your body and go for it.
V
What turns him on? I will tell you but then I will delete my answer right away so its not out there for all to see. Are you ready?
I don't call it sex either.
I think I scared V away. Sorry V!
Sorry went for three Ps! So I missed your post.
Three Ps are Pudding, Pint and P.
Post again I am waiting, you could try my hidden thread.
I have no sqeems pho. I have had cervical cancer, it eliminates any sqeems, embarrassment or shame. In Gamanon I have heard it all. BTW I have been clear for 15 years.
V
I don't know what your hidden thread is?
OK I will leave it up for just a minute. lol. The only thing that turns him on....
Ha. Well I saw it too. Good timing.
I am very high drive. I used to tell my W that she could do that any time she wanted. Just say the word.
We had a lot of sex until the last couple years. Sometimes every day.
She never, ever took me up on it in 20 years!
tl2, I am sorry that she didn't, it is pretty fun. I am so glad this forum is anonymous.
Yes saw it.
Takes all sorts of turn ons and not so out of the ordinary I would bet a common fantasy, if that's what does it then go to it. Not a problem in return a kiss or two?
My gf fella likes outdoorsy stuff and cars, so she indulges in return for her delectableS.
I love underwear, naked romping and other than the bedroom.
Go enjoy pho.
V
You are very fun to talk to V. I never understand women (or men) who are uptight about sex.
Ha. Well I saw it too. Good timing.
I am very high drive. I used to tell my W that she could do that any time she wanted. Just say the word.
We had a lot of sex until the last couple years. Sometimes every day.
She never, ever took me up on it in 20 years!
Well I hope she does or a lovely lady indulges you in a great R. And more than once.
V
V,
We are now D, so the offer is no longer on the table for her!
You are very fun to talk to V. I never understand women (or men) who are uptight about sex.
Again it's probably shame, most things people want to do are not hurting anyone or themselves.
Have you ever seen the Woody Allen film everything you ever wanted to know about sex but we're afraid to ask?
I just loved it to pieces.
//youtu.be/DTjmjnFzvO0
BTW I return the compliment, it's fun and is often taken too seriously.
V
V,
We are now D, so the offer is no longer on the table for her!
At the moment, you never know in life! I have a friend who has reconnected with his W1 after 15 years.
I shall pray for delectable stuff for you, you deserve it. If your partner won't swapsy then move on.
My aged P said " your mum and I still tickle each others fancies" they were in their eighties at the time. Sadly in their ninties now and mum has dementia so fancies have been parked. Always wondered where you find your fancy to tickle. You already know. It is that which will keep you rocking on.
V
You are very fun to talk to V. I never understand women (or men) who are uptight about sex.
If you are made to feel perverted, monstrous, and repulsive, neglected and rejected for years, and ultimately abandoned and shunned because of your desires, it might feel a bit different.
Be careful of assuming that a high drive makes you like a guy. Maybe so. But I haven't met a woman that is wired like I am either. It's possible I suppose. I hope so. But the desire for frequent sex doesn't necessarily match the underlying motivations, outlooks, or why it is so critical.
Anyway, to the question at hand...I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone but a committed life partner. It is too important and intimate for me to share with anyone else. And anyone that could have more casual sex and look at is as simply physical stimulation I don't know that I could trust with my intimate self because they wouldn't understand the value of what I was giving.
OK so now I am more confused than before. Not sure if I should just go for it or hold out. Will think on it.
Zues, I think also that my definition of "high drive" is relative to my H's. I have been with him and only him for 26 years. I would be happy with 2x per week, H thinks that is very high. He is on a once per 2-3 weeks cycle. So maybe my "high drive" is really average, but I am comparing myself to someone with a low drive.
I feel like I am more like a man because I think about it all the time, and want it all the time. However, if I was with someone who was giving it to me on a regular basis, maybe I wouldn't be thinking about it as much. Maybe I'd even turn it down sometimes. I don't know, I have never been in a position of having my frequency needs met. Quality is great, not complaining there. But quantity is very frustrating. Always, except maybe for the first 2-3 years of dating.
We were in a situation where my W gave it to me whenever I wanted it. But she usually didn't want it. And then at some point she seemed to never want it. So in order to quit putting pressure on her to have it so much, I masturbated a lot. She got mad at me for doing that.
I really think she liked having affairs because she could control every aspect of it and it was always exciting/interesting because it was never a commitment, was always limited by time and intensified by secrecy and the forbidden nature of it.
I am sorrry tl2. I think for my sitch my H's low sex drive saved me from him actually turning his EA into a PA. He told me that when he told OW that I questioned him if it had turned physical that she actually laughed. What kind of woman would laugh at that? If I was truly a "friend" to someone and their W had that concern I would be devastated and ashamed of myself and she'd be getting a sincere apology and call from me with assurances that I wasn't touching her H. I think she was waiting for my H to make the first move and she would have been all over him. Who knows what is in these waywards minds, but it is beyond selfish.
Zues, I certainly hope it wasn't you who was made to feel perverted for his desires. I am sorry if it was, and want you to know that I am sure there is a very lucky woman out there who will someday find her way into your life. You are one of my favorite posters here. I'll be thinking about you tomorrow and sending prayers and good thoughts for your custody hearing.
V,
We are now D, so the offer is no longer on the table for her!
On the table would work too.
Who knows what is in these waywards minds
What I have seen is pain, confusion, and something like narcissism.
I experienced much of what Zues mentions above. I had told my W that as far as I was concerned, pretty much anything goes in the bedroom as long as it stays between us. Used to tell her I thought one key to a happy marriage was keep the sex dirty and the fights clean.
She would say she liked something, and when I'd do it, or want to do it more often than she thought was 'acceptable', I was told I was a pervert. Or had 'issues'. Etc.
Despite being high drive with decent skills, I eventually lost most of my desire for her in the last couple or three years even though I thought (still do) that she was the sexiest woman I ever knew. She was always my first, best, and only choice.
While I would prefer to have our M even still, I do feel relief from not being constantly put into a box and labeled.
On the table would work too.
Haha. Oh you have no idea. Under a boardwalk at the beach...elementary school parking lot...room on 20-something floor of a big city hotel with the curtains open...
(well, maybe you have some idea).
Well I've been married for a long time with young children, not so creative any more! And now just when the kids are getting more independent my H decides he wants out. Great timing on his part. I am pretty easy to please actually. Just happy to be wanted. Which I am no longer. Can't compete with the lonely coworker in the middle of a divorce who does backwards flips on trampolines for fun and has no children demanding to be taken to pesky doctor's appointments. Sigh.
When we do get together, everything about it is intense. It's like we can't get enough of each other. The kissing is passionate and it feels like more than just sex.
He also wants to hold me in bed or hug me throughout the day. He says it helps him in his healing process, which I don't understand at all. He tells me he wants to divorce me for peace, but apparently still needs me in his life on some level. This is all so overwhelming and confusing. Then I get upset after we have sex because I know he doesn't really want to work things out with me and is looking forward to divorce. But it feels so good to be with him, that I guess the denial helps me at least during those moments.
I've also thought that maybe if I'm sexually available to him, it will make him want me more. (like getting him to think this is what he'll be missing.)
Do i hug him, hold his hand (another thing he still likes to do), unwind with some wine and a movie after the kids are down, just like we used to? I I don't want to end up feeling the rejection even stronger if/when I realize it's all for nothing.
I know I sound desperate. It's because I very much am.
Any help?
Thoughts?
Well those things were many, many years ago. Distant memories at this point.
I am pretty easy to please actually. Just happy to be wanted.
I don't remember what this even feels like.
I step away for a moment and then I come back.....you people are killing me.
Sunny, we are all a little deprived and vulnerable, what do you expect?
I know I sound desperate. It's because I very much am.
Any help?
Thoughts?
He's cake-eating. You're allowing it.
Analogy: It sounds to me like you're going along with it because it gets you a little 'junk food' that temporarily takes a little edge off the pain, but doesn't make you healthier or stronger like real good food wood.
Is it working for you? Helping you detach, GAL, make the best decisions for yourself?
Klassic, you are not that far into this journey. Is he willing to go to MC with you? Have you done whatever he has asked of you to rebuild trust? It sounds like there is still a lot of love and hope there. It hasn't even been 3 months, healing takes a long time.
tl2 - that's what it feels like to me. Yet --- yet ---- I can't help but hope that giving him what he wants (affection, sex, etc) will somehow bring him back to me. In regards to your questions - No, no, no, and no.
He keeps saying how he wants us to be "friends" for the sake of our children. He wants us to help each other heal from the pain, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell that means? I feel like he's the one causing me this pain, yet he wants to be there for me during the process?? I don't know how to act with him since I am the one that had the affair in the first place. I almost feel obligated to help him heal.
pho,
I've asked him to give our marriage six months so we can see if individual and couples counseling can help him/us to heal, but he said no.
As for myself, I've done an outpatient intensive and was diagnosed with bipolar 2 and sex and love addiction. I've been working on myself extensively in counseling and will start attending SLAA meetings next week. I ended the affair right before I told him about it and have had no contact with the OM since. Nor do I have any desire to do so. I've deactivated my FB account and basically told him I am willing to do anything to save our marriage. His response? "I just don't feel safe with you and you damaged my soul."
So....overwhelmed, sad, angry. I'm afraid I'm going to be bitter.
You are very fun to talk to V. I never understand women (or men) who are uptight about sex.
If you are made to feel perverted, monstrous, and repulsive, neglected and rejected for years, and ultimately abandoned and shunned because of your desires, it might feel a bit different.
Be careful of assuming that a high drive makes you like a guy. Maybe so. But I haven't met a woman that is wired like I am either. It's possible I suppose. I hope so. But the desire for frequent sex doesn't necessarily match the underlying motivations, outlooks, or why it is so critical.
Anyway, to the question at hand...I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone but a committed life partner. It is too important and intimate for me to share with anyone else. And anyone that could have more casual sex and look at is as simply physical stimulation I don't know that I could trust with my intimate self because they wouldn't understand the value of what I was giving.
Zues this is your sitch.
Your feelings about yourself are uniquely yours to own and you do. It's the way you feel about it, can that heal?
Most of sex to me with a committed life partner is fun and enjoyable. That's my view of it and apart from the end with WH really satisfying for me. I have a high drive which I'd more masculine in style that doesn't make me like a man.
Nothing about the sex is casual, just because it's fun and enjoyable doesn't make it casual.
I wish for you a great satisfying R with a terrific accepting sex life and a life partner that is other than casual. I want that for you very much that you have your hearts desire.
V
Your H is in a very hurt place, and truly this isn't about you for him. It's about himself. He is confused and bewildered. Needs space, he is telling you that.
He is a WAH, I understand his position on it. I am a WAW myself, it's a confusing place to be. A tussle between trust and fear.
That being said if you can't detach from ML, if it loops you then that isn't a good route for you in my view. There is much healing to do with the bipolar II syndrome and an A to recover from. With type II then meds and therapy can bring you closer to manic episode release and ads can help with depression. You may never have another manic phase again. It will take work. Cadet knows more about this than I do. I know enough to understand bipolar is largely physiological as an issue. It isn't a personalIty disorderbut has serious behavioural consequences if unmanaged.
The fact that you had an A is likely hurtful to H, he will work at his pace not yours. ML can be healing and this has to work for both of you.
Sweetheart you are the one here, all power to you for standing and wanting to repair your self and your M.
V
Hi
Was your husband faithful to you?
Unless I missed something , I do not feel like your husband is cake eating or a WAS. It reads as if he still loves you but is deeply hurt and confused and angry. Rightfully so. Intellectually he wants to divorce...your actions (whatever the reason) have surpassed his boundaries and greatly injured his ego. But emotionally and physically he still desires you.
I think you will have to be extremely patient. I think you need to put him first. As many books say, there cannot be enough apologies and reassurances. I think as long as it is safe and desired by both of you, you should remain intimate. Don't worry so much about you and your feelings right now. It should be about him.
I'm going put this post here hoping to get more response:
Background: I don't think W has a PA. When we Reconcilised in 2012 we agreed to try more adventurous sex and bought some sexy lingerie and tried a vibrator during foreplay and stimulating lubes. Also once we got v v drunk and we had anal sex - I cant remember a whole lot about it except she was exceptionally turned on and very noisy - but we remembered the babysitter in the next bedroom and stopped - she would not talk about it the next day. Our dabble into sex toys/naughty lingerie died a death except for a few times when we stayed in hotels. We also talked about mild bdsm, handcuffs and blindfolds and used blindfolds a few times. But for BDSM you have to make time - without kids! its not spontaneous and we never had anal sex again.
Today I discovered W's stash of sex toys and other items.
It seems she is into BDSM and she is experimenting with anal sex toys. She has two sex books close to her bed - one about BDSM and the other about sex toys.
She has a stash that has some BDSM items and it seems unused - put away - Because it needs two people??? to tie her up
Her other stash I think is used when I am away on business or when she stays away in a hotel on business or night out with girls.
It has the naughty/sexy lingerie that we bought together plus the mild BDSM stuff and vibrators and 'new' anal stuff (there was also a receipt for an anal vibrator) and lubes and cleaning stuff. No condoms or male stuff.
Her three best GFs had discussed going to a new sex shop close to our town in the Summer and they arranged a provisional date but I thought it had fallen through! it looks like they went
Two receipts were dated June 15 and Sept 15 - this last one had more anal stuff (vibrator and lube) and was dated just one month before BD. T
My question is: Does this discovery affect our chances of R?
I know that all I can do is continue to DB.
She has mostly kept these sexual desires from me especially the anal sex. We have dabbled at BDSM and i have tried to take the lead but she kept all the stuff hidden in wardrobes - BDSM isn't exactly spontaneous.
Her main complaints with our sex life: I didnt initiate enough , and she didn't want boring routine sex in the bedroom.
Don't let anyone be a cake eater at your expense. You're better than that. You're a woman. You can have sex whenever you want, 24/7/365. You ladies may not think that's true but it is. You don't need him treating you like that. He's just looking for cake.
Don't let anyone be a cake eater at your expense. You're better than that. You're a woman. You can have sex whenever you want, 24/7/365. You ladies may not think that's true but it is. You don't need him treating you like that. He's just looking for cake.
I don't understand this response. Klassic cheated on husband and now he does not want to stay married. He tells her his soul is damaged. He obviously still loves her but is hurt from the worst way one can possibly hurt someone.
Of course females do not have a hard time finding one night stands or lovers. That has nothing to do with this. Unless I read situation wrong. Worst thing she could at this point to the man she committed to and whose ego is on the floor is to seek or even consider outside affairs if she wants to save this marriage.
This thread! Timely or ironic?
I just grappled with this very thing, and I have to agree that every sitch is different, and every relationship has its own dynamics in play.
I think Julie has a point--it doesn't seem like he is cake- eating. He is struggling with feelings and hurts, and maybe needs/wants the sex for validation that she still loves him. I know in my own R, in the past, that was the only time I felt H loved me.
And only Klassic knows what is in her heart. How does it make you feel, especially afterward? If you are feeling used, or like you said, you feel bitter and resentful then probably it is not a wise choice.
As I said, I just had to make this decision, and didn't even think it was an option for us, as my H is the one who is leaving. But he approached me, and I felt his motives were genuine, and that it was something we both needed, at the time. And I did not feel angry or bitter or even regretful afterward.
My answer could change, and I will reassess, should it come up again (no pun intended) :P
My understanding is that her H is asking for a divorce...she referred to him as a WAH.
Regardless of who did what in the past and why, if he's pushing for a divorce but also wanting to have sex, it would seem to me that warrants a time-out and some communication/discussion time between the two of them so that they are on the same page.
If he's not pushing for a divorce but just bringing up the possibility from time to time, I guess that could be a different matter, but it still seems to me like there's some communication that needs to take place here.
I think if you are telling your H that you can't ML because you "feel used" you need to ask yourself what you were doing with the OM. He wasn't committed to you, was he? He was sleeping with a married woman, therefore he could not have been committed. What were his motives in sleeping with you? Your H is still your H and has suffered a huge trauma. Especially if you still have that emotional connection while ML, then I can see why he craves that.
Maybe you should call a DB coach? I am thinking of this from the betrayed spouse's perspective and I feel really badly for him. He obviously still loves you and wants to be with you, and is trying to heal. It takes a very long time to recover from something like this.
very good points from pho ^^^
I am going to do a little standing here for Klassic.
Bipolar is a tough call, many behaviours in the manic phase mimic many MLC style behaviours. An undiagnosed type II bipolar is likely to be uncontrolled and engage in some risky behaviour.
This is a very tough hand to have.
This is a very brave thread indeed with much honesty.
Klassic you have said OM was a mistake and you want to put that behind you and heal. You stand for her M, and I want to stand with you, and I knowill that you have been given have great advice as an LBS. I see that as important indeed.
Klassic, you have been very brave indeed for a Newbie.
Sandi, I am as you know a WAW non wayward and don't have the experience of being wayward, if you are about your take on this would be welcome.
V
I'm going put this post here hoping to get more response:
Background: I don't think W has a PA. When we Reconcilised in 2012 we agreed to try more adventurous sex and bought some sexy lingerie and tried a vibrator during foreplay and stimulating lubes. Also once we got v v drunk and we had anal sex - I cant remember a whole lot about it except she was exceptionally turned on and very noisy - but we remembered the babysitter in the next bedroom and stopped - she would not talk about it the next day. Our dabble into sex toys/naughty lingerie died a death except for a few times when we stayed in hotels. We also talked about mild bdsm, handcuffs and blindfolds and used blindfolds a few times. But for BDSM you have to make time - without kids! its not spontaneous and we never had anal sex again.
Today I discovered W's stash of sex toys and other items.
It seems she is into BDSM and she is experimenting with anal sex toys. She has two sex books close to her bed - one about BDSM and the other about sex toys.
She has a stash that has some BDSM items and it seems unused - put away - Because it needs two people??? to tie her up
Her other stash I think is used when I am away on business or when she stays away in a hotel on business or night out with girls.
It has the naughty/sexy lingerie that we bought together plus the mild BDSM stuff and vibrators and 'new' anal stuff (there was also a receipt for an anal vibrator) and lubes and cleaning stuff. No condoms or male stuff.
Her three best GFs had discussed going to a new sex shop close to our town in the Summer and they arranged a provisional date but I thought it had fallen through! it looks like they went
Two receipts were dated June 15 and Sept 15 - this last one had more anal stuff (vibrator and lube) and was dated just one month before BD. T
My question is: Does this discovery affect our chances of R?
I know that all I can do is continue to DB.
She has mostly kept these sexual desires from me especially the anal sex. We have dabbled at BDSM and i have tried to take the lead but she kept all the stuff hidden in wardrobes - BDSM isn't exactly spontaneous.
Her main complaints with our sex life: I didnt initiate enough , and she didn't want boring routine sex in the bedroom.
Or maybe she also bought loads of copies of 50 shades, or maybe she was having fun shopping with her girlfriends.
Only W can tell you, plus Is, your W primary LL is physical touch!!
These are touchy feely things to own. I have quite a collection myself. They are for ME, as my LL is physical touch.
I like phos take and I think it makes no negative difference unless it makes a difference to you.
V
My LL is physical touch also and I wouldn't use an anal vibrator on myself. And I am drunk right now. I should stop drunk posting. I love you guys!
Did I just stumble across a thread about sex on the forum?!?! What is this thing you all speak of??? Haha
Klassic,
I do think it's great that you have owned up to your mistakes, are seeking counseling and that you are looking to save your marriage. That takes a very strong person. I wish the best for you. Just be patient and reassuring, but only in ways that do not make you feel devalued.
Pho, Your comments crack me up!
Pho, Your comments crack me up!
Julie, seriously, I didn't even know they had vibrators for different parts, I thought a vibrator was a vibrator. I have lived a sheltered life and I think I am glad for that!
We come here and learn more then we ever thought possible.
Don't let anyone be a cake eater at your expense. You're better than that. You're a woman. You can have sex whenever you want, 24/7/365. You ladies may not think that's true but it is. You don't need him treating you like that. He's just looking for cake.
I don't understand this response. Klassic cheated on husband and now he does not want to stay married. He tells her his soul is damaged. He obviously still loves her but is hurt from the worst way one can possibly hurt someone.
Of course females do not have a hard time finding one night stands or lovers. That has nothing to do with this. Unless I read situation wrong. Worst thing she could at this point to the man she committed to and whose ego is on the floor is to seek or even consider outside affairs if she wants to save this marriage.
I completely misread the situation and I apologize to everyone. I didn't know that she was the cheater. I'll keep my feelings to myself on this one. I'll only say that cheating on someone hurts them worst than anything imaginable. That is all.
Thanks for all the replies.
Update: H had a visit today with his therapist who he's now seen twice, and their session solidified his decision to leave. His therapist also told him to stop all sex as that would be too confusing for me. So basically the last time we ML was the last time ever.
I only "felt used" because he is my husband, who has loved me for the past thirteen years. Knowing he doesn't want to be with me and still use me to satisfy his needs made me feel that way. Wrong? Maybe. But I am human and deal with these finicky things called emotions.
Now I am in a place where we are stuck living together knowing for a fact that divorce is just around the corner. (He wants to tell the kids sometime after Christmas. Happy New Year!) So this is very awkward and I don't know how to act or where to sleep for that matter!!! This is hell on earth but what makes it worse is that I did this to us. I can't even be mad at him! F**************ck!
Hi Vanilla and Pho - thanks for some female feedback
W has always had a vibrator afaik, after all I worked away a lot and this would be natural.
She mentioned using vibrators many years ago but I refused thinking it would devalue my ' contribution' - I always took great pleasure from giving her multiple orgasms. I can see now she just wanted to spice things up.
After 6 months of DB in 2011/12 we Reconciled and I was much more open to try things. We went down the road of lite BDSM . I remember visiting Ann Summers with her in summer 2012. We bought lingerie and bondage starter kit I think.
They were used a few times but as I always refer back to its not easy with kids at home who could just walk in.
Anal was never mentioned.
So the stash which looks like it gets used is in a smallish bag, lingerie, lightweight bondage stuff, vibrator x 2 plus anal beads and cuffs - the cuffs look unused. Plus lube, amyl nitrate. To me I think she dresses sexy and then uses whatever items she wants that night,
The other bag - it contains items that will not fit in the first bag - that bag is too stuffed. They are all BDSM stuff - some soft cuffs and ties we bought together as part of the starter kit, a rope I think it's from the sex shop as they sell rope and a bondage bra which would need someone else to tie up - I've set indicators to see if they get used just in case. (Knots in rope etc)
A couple of times I was turned down when I suggested using the stuff we bought and this put me off asking again. Also the occasion were we had anal sex was never brought up as she seemed ashamed that the babysitter Who is a grandmother could hear her 'screams' - she was very drunk and very loud!
So according to the receipts she bought some BDSM stuff in June and a vibrator that can be used as a couple - maybe as Pho suggests - she had me in mind - or maybe it was to show to her GFs that she was buying couples items.
The second receipt in Sept - is shows she is experimenting and was just one month before BD. but remember she was detaching physically from me for months before . Maybe this purchase just accelerated the process.
Hi klassic,
I think it's really great that you have owned up to your mistake. That says a lot about you. Many of the wayward spouses that we read about are in denial, and blame spouses for their unfaithfulness. They often engage in very abusive behaviors to justify their actions that end up being even worse mind "f..ks"
You are not doing this.
Husband is deeply hurt right now. His pride will not allow him to forgive you at this point. It is not that he doesn't want to be with you. He does love you. It's his pride. He is conflicted. You have humiliated him in the worst way. By making love to you, by staying with you he is breaking his own moral code.
But in the future anything can happen. What's that saying, don't believe what they say. It's the emotions talking. You will have to be the biggest person you can be right now and if you want this marriage to work you have to put him and his feelings first.
I read somewhere that if your unfaithful spouse is truly remourseful that it is better to stick with them because the probability of them cheating again is smaller then a new significant other.
I don't think you should give up, but be prepared for it to take a long time. Continue to show how remourseful you are. You will have to be prepared for angry outbursts. Validate, validate, validate. Apologize, apologize, apologize. Don't expect him to take care of you right now. Be transparent. Do not engage with any suspicious activity with the opposite seX. Dont ignore him or be cold to him because that will justify him leaving. Don't make demands right now.
Good luck.
Don't let anyone be a cake eater at your expense. You're better than that. You're a woman. You can have sex whenever you want, 24/7/365. You ladies may not think that's true but it is. You don't need him treating you like that. He's just looking for cake.
I don't understand this response. Klassic cheated on husband and now he does not want to stay married. He tells her his soul is damaged. He obviously still loves her but is hurt from the worst way one can possibly hurt someone.
Of course females do not have a hard time finding one night stands or lovers. That has nothing to do with this. Unless I read situation wrong. Worst thing she could at this point to the man she committed to and whose ego is on the floor is to seek or even consider outside affairs if she wants to save this marriage.
I completely misread the situation and I apologize to everyone. I didn't know that she was the cheater. I'll keep my feelings to myself on this one. I'll only say that cheating on someone hurts them worst than anything imaginable. That is all.
Please don't, voice you views. If you misunderstand do as you have done. APOLOGISE then move on.
We all get the wrong end of the stick, V especially.
V
Hi Vanilla and Pho - thanks for some female feedback
W has always had a vibrator afaik, after all I worked away a lot and this would be natural.
She mentioned using vibrators many years ago but I refused thinking it would devalue my ' contribution' - I always took great pleasure from giving her multiple orgasms. I can see now she just wanted to spice things up.
After 6 months of DB in 2011/12 we Reconciled and I was much more open to try things. We went down the road of lite BDSM . I remember visiting Ann Summers with her in summer 2012. We bought lingerie and bondage starter kit I think.
They were used a few times but as I always refer back to its not easy with kids at home who could just walk in.
Anal was never mentioned.
So the stash which looks like it gets used is in a smallish bag, lingerie, lightweight bondage stuff, vibrator x 2 plus anal beads and cuffs - the cuffs look unused. Plus lube, amyl nitrate. To me I think she dresses sexy and then uses whatever items she wants that night,
The other bag - it contains items that will not fit in the first bag - that bag is too stuffed. They are all BDSM stuff - some soft cuffs and ties we bought together as part of the starter kit, a rope I think it's from the sex shop as they sell rope and a bondage bra which would need someone else to tie up - I've set indicators to see if they get used just in case. (Knots in rope etc)
A couple of times I was turned down when I suggested using the stuff we bought and this put me off asking again. Also the occasion were we had anal sex was never brought up as she seemed ashamed that the babysitter Who is a grandmother could hear her 'screams' - she was very drunk and very loud!
So according to the receipts she bought some BDSM stuff in June and a vibrator that can be used as a couple - maybe as Pho suggests - she had me in mind - or maybe it was to show to her GFs that she was buying couples items.
The second receipt in Sept - is shows she is experimenting and was just one month before BD. but remember she was detaching physically from me for months before . Maybe this purchase just accelerated the process.
Let it go my lovely, stop puzzling.
My sense is W is doing this for W. When used this stuff disintegrates it generally isn't well, made, it's uncomfortable and needs washing often.
My friend recently showed me a but plug she bought several years ago, it had perished.
I have some condoms from when WH and I got together many years ago, they are out of date.
My collection includes several vibrators a plastic tongue which is so funny you could die laughing, several basques in a small size, cut out bras with the wrong cut outs, and fancy knickers, cheese grater thongs, stockingd with and without holes, and a miscellaneous collection of nonsense bought at parties, hen nights and girlie trips.
I am not wayward in the slightest.
Whimsy.
V
Love your post V
I know im obsessing - i guess its the cuffs and bondage stuff that bothers me - it needs two to tango.
Also the thought of her experimenting sexually without me is driving me to distraction - I just want to jump her bones and do this stuff with her! I want to drive her wild sexually....frustrated man
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