First Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...743#Post2596743Second Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=12&page=1Thank you so much for all of the support I have found on this forum. I could not have made it the last 3 months without you all. I would be in a puddle of despair and desperation.
S4 and I have had a great day playing, being silly, and snuggling on the couch. We went to our favorite place, Target, shopping. I agree that he is only 4 and doesn't know how to express what he is feeling yet. I think that is a great opportunity for me to practice validation.
I spoke to H today on the phone to touch base about next week. I also talked to him about what happened on Wednesday and he got a little defensive in the sense that he kept saying "I didn't do it intentionally". I let him know that I knew that and I was only upset because the decision wasn't made as a team. He agreed we need to communicate better. Then he got real interested in what our plans were for the day and asked me if I had everything I needed for the trip and if I was excited. This was new. He hasn't said one word about my trip or ever took an interest in what I was doing. I think that was a positive step.
I am going to take that he keeps saying we need to communicate better positively. He keeps saying that to me but it hasn't really changed. I know that is something I am working on being better at, I hope he is too.
1 more day until a week of sun, sand, relaxation, and sister time. I may or may not jump on here while I am gone. I probably won't have anything to report but do want to keep on everyone's sitches.
Of all the things you're doing, focusing on your kids is likely the most important. But like being on an airplane and giving yourself the oxygen first, what are you doing for you on the off-days?
I realize 4 year olds can be demanding.
The other thought I would leave you with - can you see this from an older perspective? I.e. 10 years down the road? And can you see what it is you would want to look back on and see regarding you, how you handled things, and how you helped your son? And heck, maybe even helped your H as a third option?
I ask that because while you are in the thick of things, it's hard to see the forest for the trees. It's really hard to give your son the things he needs, balance that with what you need, and help him to maintain a relationship with his dad. The good news is that his dad wants time with him. The downside is that you two have to figure out how to make that happen. But that's going to pass sooner than later.
Whatever you do, don't say anything negative to your son about his dad. And don't let him hear it. They have a way of being in earshot when you least expect it. Everything else will pass but your son will remember and internalize things differently, ya know?
Sounds like you're doing well and are well on your way. Keep up the good work!
AJ
I've been amazed how hearing what they say and surprising them by not being defensive or critical can really cause them to open up. With most Ss, they really do want to connect with us. They are attached to us, but our dynamics, their issues, and their perceptions of us based on what they believe they know about us gets in their way. It doesn't mean that we can just turn them on to this desire and let things develop. They have a lot of sorting through their own issues, and may never allow themselves to do this. Still, I'm glad you got some positive reinforcement to the cooperative approach.
Sounds like a lot of fun w/ the S.
Ep? How's it going, dear?
Finally was able to get a good enough internet signal to send a quick note. Vacation is amazing! Having a blast.
Now for the depressing news - been FaceTime with H all week. Our 12 year old Golden Retriever has passed away while I am gone. I got to say goodbye though and we have been crying on the phone together the past two days. She was healthy when I left and declined rapidly. They found a huge mass in her abdomen that was blocking all food to her stomach. We didn't even know anything was wrong with her except she quit eating the day after I left. I am so heart broken for me and my family. I so wish I was there with them.
So sorry EP. I know how hard it is to lose your dog. Sending a big hug your way.
Back to reality - sigh
That was an amazing vacation and much needed get away. It seemed that everyone at the resort was on their honeymoon and that did make me miss my husband a lot. It was nice to get away and reflect on what is happening in my life right now. It was heartbreaking that we lost our dog while I was away. I am surprised by how much H called to Facetime with me, to keep me updated, and to at least let me see and talk to our pup before she passed. We cried on the phone together and reminisced about her life with us. I miss her so much already and the house is so quiet and lonely. She was my companion on the days that I am home alone. I am not sure what I will do now without her.
He bought her for me when we were just dating so she has been in our lives from the beginning. This feels like the last piece (besides our son of course) that bound us together.
H dropped off S4 yesterday afternoon and hung around for about an hour. He told me about their time together and he wanted to talk about the dog some more. It was a very nice encounter. I went back and looked at one of my original goals when I first read DR and it was 'H will linger longer on drop off/pick ups'.
He has been TM all night and today with pictures from when I was gone and being very friendly with his replies. This is different than before. I don't respond right away but make sure when I do it is funny or friendly.
Ep, so sorry about your dog.
It's nice that H is being friendly. Don't think that it necessarily means anything, though, just enjoy the peace and continue on your path with no expectations.
Thank you, Sunny. It is just nice to have some peaceful conversations lately instead of the spitefulness. I feel like I am finally getting a chance to be the lighthouse. No expectations here!
I am working on getting to a good place, so I can be a lighthouse, too! This is the hardest thing I've ever been through. I'm here for you, too!
Still no expectations here but another good encounter with H tonight. He hung around for 30 minutes just talking. I gave him 100% of my attention and made eye contact, a big step for me. I think I was always distracted by S4 when we were together. It is so nice to not have the tention and hate between us. It wasn't a fake encounter to just be polite. It felt real maybe we are both starting to let go. I don't know. I'm just journaling what has changed.
Two thumbs up on the attention, the intrest and the eye contact.
Journaling - I feel all progress has stopped. The death of my dog really shook me and I have stopped to grieve her. I feel like I am back to day one of BD and I know what I need to do to move forward. All GAL activities have stopped and I do not like that at all. Next week my focus needs to be GAL and picking back up on my Pilates routine. I have been thinking about H way too much since getting home from vacation. It puts me in such a funk when I think about what I miss and "what if...". Come on girl, pull yourself together! You've got this!
H did call me the other night 3 times to ask if he should give S Ibuprofen or Acetaminophen, really? He brought up that he bought some books on Amazon about 4 year olds behavior and children going through divorce. He said he would let me read them when he was done with them. I am so shocked by him taking this initiative.
Anyway, just journaling some things today since I really need to get back into DB'ing and get out of this slump. Anyone else experience a low 5 months in or so? I feel like I have run out of steam.
Just because I don't want to forget some of the positive things H has done lately I need to write them down.
1. Took time to let me talk about Pup and cry together, to grieve
2. Bought me an urn with her ashes, they took a cast of her paw print on the box and left it at the house for me
3. Calling more instead of TM
4. Does not seem angry or avoid eye contact when speaking
Sweetheart,
You are allowed to grieve, take a breath, tears are cleansing.
The grief will be all different things wrapped up together, M, R, dreams, and your heart with your puppy.
It's ok, it's healing, it may not seem so, but know grief from the heart and then celebration of life is wonderful.
Truly glorious in its way.
Precious lovely tears with joy at the wonderful memories.
It's a gift to embrace. Wrap yourself in the warm glow of love for your Woofie, plan something glorious for her ashes, buy champagne, celebrate her life. Plan a collage of photos, create a windows desktop screensaver. Allow the love and devotion between you to stay in your tender heart.
It's going to keep you safe to your higher power.
(((((Hugs)))))
V
Thanks V
Tonight I can't help but think, I wish divorce wasn't the answer that my husband thinks is the way he can be the parent he always wanted to be. I wish he could have stepped up when we were together.
Thanks V
Tonight I can't help but think, I wish divorce wasn't the answer that my husband thinks is the way he can be the parent he always wanted to be. I wish he could have stepped up when we were together.
You and me, both! I wish H would realize it's not just me...H has lots of work to do, too. I think our family is worth it. So sad he doesn't feel the same.
You are where you are, there is no going back.
If he is going to step up to be a dad, then validate, validate, validate.
Look at Zues wife and how she is switching him off by her critique. Find what is going right and say you are grateful, even if for the kids sake.
Two cooperative parents are worth having.
The other aspects @rse wipe.
V
So a strange/weird thing happened last night, in a good way. I called H on my way to pick up S4 from school to see what time he would be picking him up since I needed to go back to work after to finish up some projects. He suggested I take him to Chik-fil-a and he would meet me there after dinner so that I could head back out. S4 and I ate and he played on the playground and had a great dinner together. When H got there he ordered food and sat down, I was totally prepared to up and sprint out the door as soon as he got there. He sat down and immediately started talking to me about his work and some things that have been going on. We chatted like friends and I told him why I had to go back to work and how busy work had been. I looked at the clock when I left and we had been sitting there talking for 30 minutes! And it wasn’t kid related! I really hope this was a step in the right direction.
Also before I left I told him how I had noticed how involved in wanting to learn about 4 year olds behavior and buying books on the subject and stuff. I let him know I appreciated him doing that and for talking to me about it. His response was “I want him to succeed”. I am not sure what that meant and I didn’t push it any further. He then asked if we could all go to S4’s VPK open house together tonight, I said I would be there. All in all it was a good night and stress free for once.
E - I'm so happy you're getting to have positive interactions with H! I don't know what it means, either, but talking and no stress? That's such a good thing. I hate having my stomach tied up in knots whenever my H is around.
He just texted me asking if my Mom or Sister were going to the Open House tonight, S4 was asking his parents if they were going. I said no but I didn't care if they wanted to come. He wrote back "I think it should just be the 3 of us"
Lots of GAL plans this weekend to stay busy. Off to my sisters company picnic at the beach with S4. I hope everyone has a great weekend.
I don't know where my head is at today. H came to pick up S4 to take him to his friend's kid birthday party. He knocked on the door, no longer uses his key or comes right in. I guess that is good in the sense he is seeing the house as mine. I feel sad, angry, grief stricken, and at a loss today. Why does it seem like we make strides in moving on and then feel like I am back to square one out of the blue? I am just really missing him lately.
Hey epo
Just been reading your sitch I was so sorry to hear about your dog
Sending you some hugs
Ghost
Because it's not a straight line, Ep. We swirl around, pass by the beginning again and again. But someday you'll notice that it gets longer and longer in between trips.
BD for me was a year and a half ago. I still cry, I cried in the middle of the meeting with the attorneys the other day. It's entirely possible that I'll cry forever. But I don't cry every day, or even every week. In between I work and laugh and play and hang out with friends.
Don't beat yourself up for being human, it's ok to grieve. In fact, if you are ever going to truly move on, it's necessary. And it takes as long as it takes.
Thanks everyone. Sunny - you're right. I didn't think about it that way. It used to be 7 days was my max and the need to temp check consumed my thoughts. I don't have that "need" anymore. I haven't felt this way in several weeks so I need to ease up on myself.
I'd add to what Sunny said: sometimes we have to work through the same stage multiple times before it really takes hold. It is just where you are and what you need to be going through right now in a way. I suspect it is also different this time through. You aren't really back to square one. You are aware of what you are going through this time. So now you get to watch yourself struggle and adjust. The first time, you couldn't really see it for what it was. Now you get to more fully experience it. You'll have different insights this time through, and you'll probably be able to embrace it this time for what it is. Then, maybe you can let go of some little piece that you're stuck on.
So, don't be hard on yourself, recognize the ways in which it may seem like it was before but I bet you can see and therefore appreciate some growth and development if you look for it.
I like to think of my emotions like a sine wave. By going through this process, my downs aren't as far down, and the periods are farther and farther apart. As long as you keep moving forward, you will keep growing.
You got this, ep.
Yes I see the and feel the difference. Before I was desperate for him to stay and work things out now I want him but I don't need him. Even though he has hurt me more than I ever thought possible I still feel like we are soul mates.
"It's funny how the person you would take a bullet for is the one that pulled the trigger"
EP, checking the temp...that is a hard habit to break. I am glad you are aware that you've been doing it. That is first thing to be able to curtail yourself From continuously checking.
I am in a much better place today. There are things I will never understand, mostly the 'why' and how he can't see that I could never meet his unvoiced expectations. Some things aren't meant to be understood, only accepted.
I accept our marriage is over. I want a new one, a better one.
I accept that he is broken.
I accept that I do not know what the future holds but it will be amazing
I accept that I am worth more than how he values me for
I accept that I do not know what he is thinking or feeling
I am going to try and start feeling some compassion for him but I am not quite sure I am there yet. I do forgive him for feeling like there was no hope and that he must have felt this was the only answer. I have not forgiven him for how he got there (alone) and how he handled everything after BD.
Thank you all for your continued support. I would not be where I am without you. Six months in is just around the corner and I already feel a lot stronger than I did 6 months ago.
Wow, EP. You could have been writing for me! You're very eloquent.
(This is Judy, thought it smart to change screen name)
I am so happy that you're making good progress.
Ancaire - I was looking for you earlier, no wonder I couldn't find you. LOL good to know
I wish I could take all of the credit but I have gotten some really amazing advice and guidance on this board from so many people. They have really helped me get to this place and for that I will be eternally grateful.
I am in a much better place today. There are things I will never understand, mostly the 'why' and how he can't see that I could never meet his unvoiced expectations. Some things aren't meant to be understood, only accepted.
Ep, most of us roll around in the why pit for a while. I did. And truth is, I still don't know why. STBX's stated reasons for having the affair and leaving me were 1) my closet was messy, and 2) my weight had fluctuated throughout the years while I was having his three kids. (I am not overweight). Yep, I'm guilty of both. But believe it or not, it was only with the help of my IC and some good people here that I realized that some men see a closet as functional storage space and not a character flaw, and that the changes a woman's body goes through while having children do not make her unworthy of love.
If you feel like there's some "why" that's related to you, for instance, you ate bon bons and sat on the couch all day and neglected the house and the kids, or if you nagged him mercilessly, or you withheld sex, well, then, there's some work to do on you. If the "why" is related to him, just accept that you may never understand. And climb on up out of that why pit. There's a better life ahead.
Sunny - you know what? He hasn't given me any "why" other than "we grew apart" "I'm not there anymore". That's all he has to say ever on the subject and told me that he has nothing else to say to me on the matter. That's it. That's all I have to go on. A part of me wishes he had complaints, specific complaints. I am walking in the dark here.
Sunny - you know what? He hasn't given me any "why" other than "we grew apart" "I'm not there anymore". That's all he has to say ever on the subject and told me that he has nothing else to say to me on the matter. That's it. That's all I have to go on. A part of me wishes he had complaints, specific complaints. I am walking in the dark here.
My STBX said he was "moving in a different direction". I'll never understand why it was OK for half of a married couple to "move in a different direction" without consulting the other. But, that's the why pit again.
Ep, we are probably never going to understand. So be it. A friend of mine who just broke up with his girlfriend likened it to a math problem with one correct answer but more than one way to solve it. If you get to the same answer, does it really matter how you got there?
How are you today? Do you have weekend plans?
I am extremely busy at work which I am grateful for because there is no time during the day to dwell on anything. I am so tired at the end of the day that my GAL activities aren't what they used to be. Meh. I forced myself and my sister to go have some fun last night and it was well deserved!
I am taking S4 shopping for a Halloween costume this weekend and a party to go to on Sunday. He loves the Halloween store and making all the scary things go off in the store. I swear, my kid is not afraid of anything. LOL
I just wanted to say I've caught up on your situation, and I think you're doing a fantastic job. We're the same age and have similar timelines, and I'm impressed with how you have been handling all of this.
Thanks Tinydoc <3
I don't know why I let certain things get to me. Two days ago when H picked up S4 he grabbed a special glass and said he was taking it because his sister was throwing an Oktoberfest party. Ok. Today was her husbands birthday so I texted him Happy Birthday and to have a great day. I asked him if he had anything planned for his big 3-0, he said just a few people over to our in-laws house. Well good old FB - pictures just were uploaded and it was a huge party. This kind of thing just makes me so sad. I feel so discarded and unloved by my family, who I have always regarded as such and loved beyond measure. Ugh I can't even type anymore I'm so upset by it.
Hi Ep, I'm sorry to hear about the party. It is one of the things I have found hard in my sitch - the inlaws response. My inlaws are transatlantic, so we saw them a couple times a year normally, but I kept in touch by email (more than H did TBH.) I felt we had a great R, and I was so disappointed that they haven't chosen to keep in touch. They haven't been critical of me that I'm aware, but I do feel cut out - like my R with them only existed because I was H's W - not because I am a person in my own right.
It is a hard thing to deal with - and the whole blood is thicker than water certainly holds true in many sitches here. It has helped me to think they are in a tough situation and it isn't always easy to know what line to take....so they avoid making contact or extending invites etc.
Take care xx
Thanks Sotto - I'm trying to find compassion but I'm still too upset. They live 15 minutes from us and I used to see his family (without him there) multiple times a week. Now crickets... I hate it. I don't even know that I should say anything.
Of course my head is thinking "did he even feel anything about his wife and son not celebrating with his family" everyone's else's family was there. Probably not.
Great morning at church today. It was just what I needed.
My help comes from You
You're right here, pulling me through
You carry my weakness, my sickness, my brokenness all on Your shoulders
Your shoulders
My help comes from You
You are my rest, my rescue
I don't have to see to believe that You're lifting me up on Your shoulders
Your shoulders
I'mmmmmm baaaaccckkk
Tuesday is the only night I don't have plans and that excites me again. I believe the vacay from GAL activities is causing my down. I know by this time next week I will be exhausted but exhausted from fun. I will put on a happy face!
Stood my ground to my mother tonight. Not something I would have done before. I was filling her and my sister in on the party incident and all she kept saying is "this is what is to be expected. Don't ever expect them to treat you any different" it was said in a very smug way. I said that comments like that are not helpful. I just want you to listen, etc.
I don't know your relationship with your mom, but I deal with an extremely immature and spiteful mother. I think they mean to help but are just at an entirely different emotional level. I will give you an example...when my husband was coming to pick up my boys he was late as usual. Of course this was upsetting me. She actually started going around making bets as to what time he would arrive to pick them up. She was using this sing song voice and it was just so immature and upsetting. I know he's selfish but I am having a hard time coping and this was so instigative. its like can't she see, this doesn't change the situation or hurt husband, it only hurts me.
Just wanted to share cause maybe our situations are similar.
Ep, sorry about the party. In-laws are tricky. I get along beautifully with mine, in fact SIL is one of my biggest supporters, but I am ever aware that he's their family and I am not. They have been wonderful, but time will march on, and we'll see what happens.
I've had a bit of heartburn lately with people we used to hang out as a couple now hanging out with STBX and the duck. How could people who used to say they were my friends now hang out and laugh with and swap stories with a woman who ripped my family apart? It's hard to come to grips with.
Guys, I got a letter in the mail today for a judge heading on November 9, we do not have anything signed yet. I'm freaking out! I'm so not ready for that! I haven't even seen his financial affidavit. His party has had mine since July. I'm hoping this is a formality since I spoke to my L today and he thought we should post pone our next collaborative session since his side was behind. I'm so not ready for that action. Wtf! What happened?!
Stay calm. Your L is correct. You should try and postpone since you have not received the requested information. I will say it does seem a little early to postpone. If you receive it in tbe next couple of weeks I am not sure postponing will be necessary.
Ep, I'm not sure how that happened as it shouldn't have entered it into the court system until the collaborative agreement was complete. Definitely something for your L to handle. Are you using a forensic accountant?
Ep,
I am guessing this is a hearing for temporary orders such as financial or custody you talking about. Is that correct? If so, both my temporary custody and financial hearings took place before discovery was complete. We essentially had enough information for a judge to make a ruling on what should happen until the divorce is final.
Why, both Ep and I are in a collaborative process and the court is not supposed to be involved at all until the entire agreement is presented for a final judgment. There are no temporary hearings, that's all handled privately.
Thanks Sunny, I was just typing that.
This is what freaked me out, my mind went right back to the night I was served. By fear throughout this whole process has been that he was going to do something again behind my back. When I got the notice last night for a hearing I immediately thought that he had stopped the collaborative agreement and taking this straight to court.
We aren't using a forensic accountant. We can't afford to have another professional on the team. We are supposed to be meeting next week but there hasn't been any progress so I think it's going to be postponed. Funny for someone who wanted this divorce so badly he hasn't really done anything to move the process along.
Thanks Sunny, I was just typing that.
Sorry, I wasn't sure when you'd be back around.
This is what freaked me out, my mind went right back to the night I was served. By fear throughout this whole process has been that he was going to do something again behind my back. When I got the notice last night for a hearing I immediately thought that he had stopped the collaborative agreement and taking this straight to court.
Yes, that would send me to panic mode, too. In my case, no one got served at all. In the same conversation I asked to move along with D, we agreed on the collaborative process, then we each chose a L, and our Ls contacted each other. There won't be anything at all in the court system until the final agreement. I'd freak out if I got something in the mail I wasn't expecting.
Ok freak out over. I'm much calmer today. Even though I accept the divorce is happening I'm not ready for it to be legally over after only starting the divorce process less than 4 months ago.
Thanks for the clarification SunnyB. It is hard for me to catch up on all the sitchs from beginning to end.
EP, may I ask why you would need a forensic accountant. I own a business with WW and if I was not a CPA my L said he would have suggested one. I'm just curious so please don't feel obligated to talk about if you are not comfortable. I wonder how many people get into divorce and really need the help of an accountant.
I know my WW is having a hard time with understanding the financials and so is her attorney. They have already started speaking to an accountant friend of mine.
Why, I am using a forensic accountant. If you want to pop over to my thread I'll explain why later today.
I haven't heard from H in a week. Not even a text. We went from having friendly, stress free convos to zip. Guess I will go back to not contacting him unless kid related. I didn't pursue and I only texted him if he texted first.
I haven't heard from H in a week. Not even a text. We went from having friendly, stress free convos to zip. Guess I will go back to not contacting him unless kid related. I didn't pursue and I only texted him if he texted first.
Ep, their cycles are tedious. STBX has alternately ignored me, bought me sexy lingerie (which I never modeled for him), ignored me, sent me roses, ignored me, kissed me. We've settled into something just above ignoring. I have no idea what was going through his head any of that time. Just stay your course.
It's been 4 days since I posted on my own thread because I have been so busy GAL! It feels really good to be busy again and being around friends. Being back out there has really got me thinking about what I had been missing and needing for a long time. The last few months I had been forcing myself to get out there, now I want it. I am not a shy person, I like being with friends. I also don't mind being alone but something I wanted when we were married were couple friends. We have none! How sad is that? I wanted to throw dinner parties, game nights, etc. H wouldn't go for it. Ever!
I've met some new girl friends who have invited me out several times next week and I can't wait. I just wanted to post some positive changes and thinking this weekend.
Good for you. I was the stick-in-the mud who never felt the need to socialize much. The S has changed my attitude on this. So, I understand both drives. Maybe his having to get his own life together might lead to some healthier changes if you ever reconcile.
And, if he never gets his sh*t together, you'll still be in a much better place.
Tomorrow we have our joint meeting about finances. I am really nervous about it. I know that I will stay calm and that my L has my back but I just never know what to expect from these meetings.
I posted a week ago, I think, that H was ignoring me and also being nice, I have learned this pattern usually means he has done something he feels guilty about and/or he did something behind my back. I couldn't shake the feeling there is going to be a knife in my back soon. Today I got an email from my L finally getting his draft of his financial affidavit. Bingo! He is not being truthful on there at all and it makes it look like I should give him money. He makes more than 30% than me. Nope. He didn't even list one of his retirement accounts and surprise to me, his credit card bill has tripled since I last saw the balance. I am really not sure how this meeting is going to go but I do not expect it to be pleasant. YIKES!
Ep, I know you didn't want to pay for a financial consultant, but......it might be worth it? I know what the rates are in Miami, not sure where you are, but if you dropped a few $K on a consultant wouldn't that be worth it to know you are seeing all the assets? At least there would only be one consultant since you are collaborative. Are you splitting the fees 50/50?
Hey Sunny - thanks. I am not paying a dime for this divorce, I negotiated that he has to pay my lawyer's bill too and the consultants. I am sure my parents would give me the money if I wanted to hire a financial consultant. Depending on how tomorrow goes during the meeting I may need to say that I want to bring one on board.
I am not paying a dime for this divorce, I negotiated that he has to pay my lawyer's bill too and the consultants.
I'm in the same boat. In the first collaborative meeting I said, "you want it, you pay for it." He agreed, much to his L's dismay. Too bad. In this case, honey, I'd ask for that forensic accountant tomorrow. You have good cause, I don't think anyone would argue with you. Please take care of yourself.
Tomorrow we have our joint meeting about finances. I am really nervous about it. I know that I will stay calm and that my L has my back but I just never know what to expect from these meetings.
I posted a week ago, I think, that H was ignoring me and also being nice, I have learned this pattern usually means he has done something he feels guilty about and/or he did something behind my back. I couldn't shake the feeling there is going to be a knife in my back soon. Today I got an email from my L finally getting his draft of his financial affidavit. Bingo! He is not being truthful on there at all and it makes it look like I should give him money. He makes more than 30% than me. Nope. He didn't even list one of his retirement accounts and surprise to me, his credit card bill has tripled since I last saw the balance. I am really not sure how this meeting is going to go but I do not expect it to be pleasant. YIKES!
A couple of things:
Firstly D, fins are really not fun, if they were then I may be concerned for your mental state!!
Secondly, if your intuition is telling you WH is being deceptive then trust that. The best advice is to ask for a forensic not a general and want openness, be prepared to give this too.
In your sitch and in front of both Ls the question to ask naively is "please confirm that you are disclosing all of the assets that existed when we S"
If WH says yes and he lies then it's a breach a contempt of court, his L will tell him that's jail time and a record for both of them, if he says no then you defer to your L. Don't forget pension assets.
You have this.
Breathe relax, easy, listen watch, if needs be ask for this to be recorded so you can both review it later on.....
B
Sorry fat finger....
If the petition states net income then a common trick is to pay a pension premium, it shows up as a deduction (reducing income) but won't appear in the assets as it may not be invested and the statement is annual.
In this way the employer or accountant agrees the income quite legit and especially if the pens fund is purchase fund it has little value. I had a clients WH lose 500k this way.
V
You're right. I'm going to be thinking about this all night and tomorrow morning.
Be aware WH may have sacrificed salary for benefits, his gross salary can also be less as his employer (which can also be his own company) has received a contribution, or he has bought shares in his employer or lent them cash. It is called salary sacrifice.
Ep take a copy of this post with you, then stop thinking about it. Be free, alive and awake as you got this. When unsure say I will consider it.
If problematic V and WhyUs have a very secret thread on fins in D. Just drift to my thread.
V
Thanks V - I will do just that
The thing that scares me the most is that I am an open book. He knows everything about me. I have no idea who he is anymore.
Ep
Honesty is your strength. You can be open.
Deception is WH weakness. Any court will later adjust if you can show he deceived (lied to the court).
A clever L will document, sounds like yours has this covered. Also highlight the cells in the D papers you want to query. Stick to the big stuff ignore if his electricity bill is 60 or 70. Keep to the large important items.
Give way on the teapot and his grandma's wedding earing. Stick to the pension scheme especially.
Is WH sure the figures in box x are correct?
L TO L. My client is unclear of the composition of box 23456, please provide a breakdown. In which box is your clients pension fund?
Can we have a sworn affirmation on that?
Questions.
V
V is on the right track, but you realize in a collaborative who performs that function. Yep. Do it. Sleep well.
Walking into the meeting. Thank you all for your advice. I am ready. I am calm. He chose to create two households, he should have to support that choice.
Thinking of you, sending rainbow strength.
V
This will just be a quick update from today. My Mom and Sister came over for dinner after the meeting and it is late now and time for bed. (yawn)
Today went better than I expected, even though a final agreement wasn't reached. I didn't think it would be. My L and I have two options we are going to write up and let his party know which path we were going to pursue financially. I am starting to question if trying to get the house we own in my name is in my best interest. I have a lo of thinking to do over the next few weeks.
This was our last meeting with Dr. C. We will be communicating via L from here on out. She pulled me aside before she left and told me that if I didn't have a job she would hire me in an instant. I am very organized and a very well put together woman. H is an idiot. I told her in confidence that I felt the process had been too easy on him so far and she said "honey, I can tell, this is not easy on him and he is struggling". "It is very apparent to all parties that you were the left side of his brain for a long time, he really is lost and is struggling on his own". That made me slightly better but still pissed. She did tell me that she thought I was better off. I would be carrying my husband and my children for the rest of my life. I truly do want a man who will lead his family. There is way more to discuss but that is all for tonight.
It was a 3 hour meeting and I am just whooped. Good night! Once again, thank you for all your support. You make me stand up straighter and keep my chin in the air. xoxo
Ep
What a wonderful compliment from the doc. The meeting went well, it sounds like it.
Did you get what you needed from it terms of info?
V
Don't take too much from what she said one way or the other. After a 3-hour meet, even the best of us get punchy and need to vent. It was probably not a good idea to put herself in that sitch and not recognize that she had needs that might conflict with her clients, but I want you to understand that all counselors are human and develop a bias in our dealings with couples/groups. We try not to let it impact our [here's me using the our as if I'm already one - see how easy it is to slip] work, but we have opinions. She may have seemed too easy on H, but it really isn't about fairness, it is about reading dynamics and recognizing where each client is (why I want nothing to do with couples counseling, as dealing with one client is enough, thank you very much).
Most men rely on their Ws to manage their emotional needs, because the way we socialize masculinity, leaves most of us ill-equiped to manage this ourselves. Unfortunately, that means some crash-and-burn when a WAH not only has difficulty w/ the W, but loses that emotional aide and coach the W has played.
Let the dust settle. Let him work with his issues and learn to manage his own emotions. You never know what will come of it. Sure D looks like the next step, but after than... you never know unless you decide it's done.
Hang in there, and keep separating his problems from being really about you at this point.
I am glad ur meating is over...moving forward, right.
Your house situation. You will just have to decide what is best for you. That will not be easy to come to terns on. Have you ever spoken with a financial planner - not a lawyer? They have good insights about your financial well being that may not be appearant, might help with your decision.
Wishing you the best!!!
I need help setting a boundary and being stern. H texted me this morning to say that his mother was going to pick up S4 from school early because he had a meeting after work so he wouldn't be done until late. Wednesday are my night form 5-7 unless I can't watch him. I texted him back saying that was fine as long as she dropped him off at the church event we were already going to. He wrote back that I should call her and work it out.
I just got a long text from his Mom when I texted her if she had a minute to talk logistics for tonight.
Mom: "I had told S that I would be picking him up early and he was excited. We are decorating for Halloween and I made dinner. If I had known about church I wouldn't have promised, now he will think I forgot. I need to know his schedule so I don't promise something I cannot keep"
Me: The same can be said for me, I was unaware that the normal schedule had changed until this morning. I didn't know you had made plans.
So I want to text H and say:
The schedule is for me to have S4 on Wed from 5-7 unless I can't watch him.I don't mind if your Mom or anyone wants to do things with him but if it takes place on my time then I need it to be cleared through me first.
What do you think? Too harsh. I am so sick of this BS happening every other week. I need to set my foot down.
Ep
That's fine, but there needs to be consequences and time frame.
-------------
So I want to text H and say:
This weeks schedule is for me to have S4 on Wed from 5-7 and a change to this has been proposed. Unless I can't watch him.I don't mind if your Mom or anyone wants to do things with him I will cooperate with this change on this occasion, in future I want WH and I to clear with the other any schedule changes the day before to avoid disappointment.
Just my view
V
Thank you V - I sent the revised text and got a response saying it was harsh and we would talk about it tonight.
We just got off the phone and it was quiet the argument, comical even. I know that so many other people on this board have way bigger issues they are dealing with but my STBX makes things so difficult, I don't know how to get though to him. He gets stuck on one statement and doesn't hear anything else.
He said my text to him was harsh, I thought it was pretty business like. I tried to explain that my biggest concern was that when a last minute conflict arose he and his Mom made the decision on what would happen with S4 without including me and then told me what I was to do. In the future, I would like for the two of us to come up with a solution, not you and your mother. We are his parents and we will make the decisions regarding his care. Basically all he heard me say was "next time I will word my text to you differently, more in the form of a question". Huh? that was not what I said at all. So I tried explaining it again. Again he says "I don't understand, I texted you what was going to happen as soon as I knew about it, I couldn't give you 24 hour notice."
It is like banging your head against a wall.
So then I tried stating that "we have a good co-parenting relationship going and I would like for it to continue. Next time, and this goes for me too, let's work out the solution together instead of independently." Then all of a sudden he wants to pick a fight about how my Mom picked up S4 early from school on Friday (my day), "what's that about?". I didn't even comment on that. I seriously do not know how to argue with him and I think I need to send an email about our conversation clearing up what I expect to happen in the future.
I know that this doesn't even come close to some of the heartache on this board but this is what I have to deal with my whole marriage. He would get stuck on one comment and never hear what I was actually saying. It is the most frustrating thing to me. I don't know how to DB past it.
Ep
This is where boundaries come in and reinforcing without emotion. The technique WH is using is called distraction, it takes an irrelevance such as you and your mum organising your pickup and makes an issue. It could be S4 was wearing blue shoes, anything. Ignoring it and not commenting is best, don't be deflected from your core goal- a smooth schedule.
When a schedules change you warn each other and the two of you deal with it between you no middle men to confuse. You each do as you like on your day. The introducing a middle man is also distraction and triangulation.
So, time to reinforce your boundary (repeating your statement is referred to as broken record) and also validate.
Thank you for our conversation, I hear you say you feel my text was business like. I would like to clarify my position, I want us to cooperate on the schedule, therefore if it is to change I will ask you a day in advance, please respect that I would like you to do the same. It's best if we do this directly with each other to avoid confusion. Each of us may organise our time with S4 and pickups on our day as suits us.
Have you thought about a shared online schedule? Several moms and dads here run one, you could offer that as well as a solution to direct contact.
V
V - Thank you. I so value your posts on my thread. I was working on a draft and yours is so much nicer so back to the drawing board. I did feel that he knew he was in the wrong but had to make it seem like I am the villain. How does this sound?
H,
Thank you for our conversation last night. We have had a successful co-parenting relationship thus far and want to keep it going. I hear you say that you thought my text was harsh. I would like to clarify my position, I want us to cooperate on the schedule, if it is to change I will ask you a day in advance. If there is a last minute change I will make the change with you as soon as possible. Please respect that I would like you to do the same. It is best that we do this with each other, directly, to avoid any confusion and disappointment. Each of us may organize our time with S4 as it suits us.
Thank you,
EP
How does this sound?
H,
Thank you for our conversation last night. We have had a successful co-parenting relationship thus far and want to keep it going. I hear you say that you thought my text was harsh. I would like to clarify my position, I want us to cooperate on the schedule, if it is to change I will ask you a day in advance. If there is a last minute change I will make the change with you as soon as possible. Please respect that I would like you to do the same. It is best that we do this with each other, directly, to avoid any confusion and disappointment. Each of us may organize our time with S4 as it suits us.
Thank you,
EP
I am really trying not to hit send on this email until really thinking it over and get some feedback from my DB peeps. This is something I am working on for myself. PATIENCE and letting time pass before reacting emotionally. Man it is tough! What do you guys think about the email above?
Ep, it seems to me that you only have a problem on Wednesdays. Is that true? And your Wednesday criteria are a little vague to me, something like it's your day "unless you can't". I'm not sure what that means, does H understand it? Maybe he's making plans because he doesn't actually consider it your day? Just a thought.
yes we only have problems on Wednesdays and it is so frustrating. I think because it is a double day. Meaning we each have him but it is his overnight. He does not take me into consideration and always makes decisions without including me. This is exactly what happened in our marriage too. Even life altering decisions, he would come to me with his decision, before I even knew there was something that needed deciding, and I was meant to go along with whatever he wanted. I do not want to do that anymore. I have a say now. He is fully aware that I get him for 2 hours on Wednesdays, it has been that way since May and we even noted it in the parenting meetings that day would stay the same.
I meant "unless I can't" then it would be up to him to find alternate care. meaning his mother but not while it was my time to see our son.
But you always seem to qualify it with "unless I can't". How often does that happen? Is it infrequent enough to just get rid of that all together and say that Wednesday afternoon is your time, period? Or does it happen often enough to say that it's H's time, period. If he's truly encroaching on your time, then that must stop. But I get a sense of ambiguity, maybe that's what H is reacting to? Think this through before you lay down the law to him.
I have never cancelled a Wednesday...ever. So I will get rid of that statement all together.
but what gets me is that he obviously has understood the plan for the last 6 weeks, it has gone smooth, so why is it that every few weeks he 'forgets' or does this play stupid routine. I really don't get it.
More questions: What has the sharing percentage turned out to be? Official over nights as well as actual time shared? And I'm going to throw something radical out there -- what if Wednesday becomes H's day? Would that create an imbalance or a disruption for S? Could you trade those two hours for a different two hours during the week? Just trying to think outside the box. What you are doing is not working. And you can either lay down the law to enforce what you have, or you can change what you have. Neither one is right or wrong. Explore some options, here.
More questions: What has the sharing percentage turned out to be? Official over nights as well as actual time shared? And I'm going to throw something radical out there -- what if Wednesday becomes H's day? Would that create an imbalance or a disruption for S? Could you trade those two hours for a different two hours during the week? Just trying to think outside the box. What you are doing is not working. And you can either lay down the law to enforce what you have, or you can change what you have. Neither one is right or wrong. Explore some options, here.
Thank you Sunny - I do value these discussions with you.
the sharing percentage is 60/40 during the school year and he has to make up the extra overnights during the summer and school breaks to make the calendar year 50/50. I believe he has 21 overnights to make up. Wednesdays are set up the way they are because of his work schedule. He doesn't get off work until 7:00 pm. Which is why I pick him up from school and get to see him until 7:00 so that he doesn't go more than 3 days without Mom. I can't trade the hours because he works from 4pm to 2am every day. We set it up for me to have that dinner time on Wednesdays so he doesn't go 3 days without seeing Mom.
I understand where you are coming from Sunny, I really do. I do believe that I do have to enforce the rules and set this boundary. H is used to me rolling over and letting him do whatever he wanted because it is what is easiest on him. This is me being EP 2.0, no more door mat. I would like the respect of being considered when our child is concerned.
I should say that he had his schedule changed when he left so that he could work days on Wed to have that extra overnight. Friday - Monday he works 4pm to 2am
Wednesdays are set up the way they are because of his work schedule. He doesn't get off work until 7:00 pm. Which is why I pick him up from school and get to see him until 7:00 so that he doesn't go more than 3 days without Mom. I can't trade the hours because he works from 4pm to 2am every day. We set it up for me to have that dinner time on Wednesdays so he doesn't go 3 days without seeing Mom.
I understand where you are coming from Sunny, I really do. I do believe that I do have to enforce the rules and set this boundary. H is used to me rolling over and letting him do whatever he wanted because it is what is easiest on him. This is me being EP 2.0, no more door mat. I would like the respect of being considered when our child is concerned.
OK, then if Wednesdays are your days, and you want to enforce that, why is your email about a day's notice on schedule changes? Wednesday is not his day. Tell him so. I get that you are asking for a day's notice if he wants to change the schedule, in this case, take your time, but really, that's not the issue. The issue is that he believes it's OK to hijack your time on a regular basis. That's the behavior you need to put a stop to. Explain to him that Wednesday afternoons are your day, please do not make plans for S during that time. Period. In this case, it doesn't really matter if he gives you notice that he wants to hijack or not, if your answer is no, then it's no the day before and the day of. Right? Do you see where I'm coming from here?
Yes thank you. I think that was a point in my head but I just didn't know how to express it. I am going to write another draft
Sunny has an excellent way of getting right to the heart of it...good luck, Ep!
Yes thank you. I think that was a point in my head but I just didn't know how to express it. I am going to write another draft
Ok, I think you have it, but let me just clarify. There are two different possibilities:
1. H, you can have S any Wednesday you want, I just need 24 hours notice, please.
2. H, I don't care if you give me 24 hours notice, three days, or two weeks, Wednesday is mine, please don't make plans for S that afternoon.
There. Much clearer to me, anyway.
And it matters which one is your stance, two very different conversations with H.
I am okay with number 1 but I feel like if I give an inch he takes a mile
I am okay with number 1 but I feel like if I give an inch he takes a mile
Then why don't you go with #2 for a while? Phrased more diplomatically, of course. And then, over time, as all three of you get settled in, you can shift as you need it. Maybe if things are working out well and H is following the plan, you could be the one to suggest that H/MIL take a Wednesday afternoon occasionally. But not the other way around.
Our parenting plan is going to say next to nothing, because we work it out on an ad hoc basis. But you are not in that position, you need something more spelled out right now. And that's OK, enforce what you have for a while, and let things take their course as S gets older and as you and H settle into co-parenting.
Do you get along with MIL? Maybe you could invite her to join you on an outing that's clearly your time? Just to make her feel included?
Yes we get along great and I had been thinking about doing that. Good idea.
H,
Thank you for our conversation last night. We have had a successful co-parenting relationship thus far and I want to keep it going. I hear you say that you thought my text was harsh. I would like to clarify my position, I want us to cooperate on the schedule. Wednesday's until you get off of work is my time with him. I will not schedule things during your time, please respect that I would like you to do the same. It is best that if a change needs to occur we do this with each other, directly, to avoid any confusion and/or disappointment. Each of us may organize our time with S4 as it suits us.
Thank you,
EP
I am glad Sunny was able to help you, I always defer to her on these matters with kids.
So proud of you, love the final draft.
V
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2616484#Post2616484