My wife and I have been married for 10 years and have 4 beautifiul childeren. Unfortunately, after spending some time on this site, I realize now that we have never worked on our marriage, not truly. We each have had one affair on each other before this current one of hers. She did have an EA with a second man, but nothing ever came from it. I knew we weren't perfect, but I did not have a clue if she was this far gone until Last Friday.
That was when my suspicions came to fruition and I confronted her and she admitted that she is having a EA wuth this OOM. Since then every night after I put the kids to sleep, she stays up texting and talking to him. Our communication has gone from very little to non existent. This did however make me have a grand revelation. I have done some soul searching and made changes in my life not for her, but for my kids. It started for her, but as soon as I had broken my connection from Video Games, I quickly realized my life is happier and more fulfilling. Especially my relationship with my children.
I'm sorry if this all seems random but I really have no one to talk to so I wind up rambling to anyone that will listen. I've spent much of the last 24 hours reading the insightful help on this board. I was guilty of breaking all of Sandi's rules the first day or two after i found out. But applied them yesterday as best I could(I still cant resist snooping her chat with him to glean truth) and it seemed to help. She even initated a conversation with me last night. Albeit it was short and at 3 a.m., she still talked. I dont know if it was from me following the rules or that i overheard her and the OOM mutually masturbating over the phone quite loudly last night.
When we talked I was calm and clear spoken with my thoughts. However she said some things im not sure how to take. She said she loves me more, but I never have and never will make her as happy as he does. Also she said she was willing to give me primary custody if we got to a D. I know the rules say not to believe anything they say, and I know from snooping she is lying to me about how much they talk. Her actions remind me of Sandi's story only we are younger so i dont suspect a MLC. I know it hasn't become a PA yet because he loves in Florida. Although he has plans to come up here soon, I have gathered. She tells me they have only been talking a few weeks, but she claims to love him. She says she wants to follow the EA to see where it goes, even if it means losing me.
She has said on the last 4 days that she doesn't love me, so she contradicts herself too. I am still living at home and have actually picked up ALL the housework. She literally does nothing when i get home but text him. And once the kids are in bed they talk on the phone. Usually until 4 am and she has to be up by 7 to take ny eldest D to Pre-K( I am already at work by that point) I have been allowing her to nap in the afternoon when i get home from work, but she would probably do it even if I protested. Her care for the kids has dropped to almost nothing and O am struggling to pick up the slack. She has even said that they arent playing a factoryou in her choice to stay or go. So that is eveb more frightening to me because before the OOM, she loved them so deeply.
I read the "Newcomer LBH with WW" last night and am conflicted as to if i should be doing the cleaning and such, but I am doing it for the kids, not her, I just dont want to let her continue to "eat cake". However ,I dont want my children to suffer because I dont know if she would return to doing them if i stopped, but I know my children can't (The oldest is 4) cook or do laundry, etc.
I don't know what to do. The last PA she had ripped me apart for years because I already have low self esteem. Especially in the physical department. I dont want to lose my W or my D4 D3 D3 S1. I'm sorry for so much text I am just still so lost, but this forum has helped me come to terms with this. I am sure in my rambling I have left out info so if anyone needs clarification on anything or has questions, please ask. I will prolly share another wall of text. Lol Thanks for Listening.
TL;DR 10 year Broken Marriage. 4 kids under 4 y.o.. W says she loves OOM. Wants to be with him even if it destroys Family. Me lost and scrambling to try to save it.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I was also wondering about the GAL part. Does time with my childeren included in that? Because unfortunately they take my time from whenever i get off work until 8-9 pm when i put them to bed.
Please can someone help woth some insight more than the generic welcome message.
Sorgan, we're sorry you're here. This is the worst thing in the world to go through.
My advice would be to believe that this M is done.
People that try to use DB forums as a strategy to win her back just shoot themselves in the foot. It keeps them in their grieving process longer (denial), it keeps them focused on what their WAS is thinking about them (attachment), it keeps them trying to control things they can't control (co-dependency), it keeps them from protecting themselves legally (stupid), and it keeps them from making real changes because they are only trying to control their WAS.
Many situations don't turn around. The few that do are often measured in years, and usually get much much much worse before they get better. There is no way you can avoid the full grieving process and be forced to get back on your own two feet, and walk for miles in your own life.
So what to do? Why do we have these forums? It's because you are at a fork in the road. You can either try force the world to be the way you want it, or you can learn to work with the reality of the world that you are presented with. No matter what WAS does you'll grow into a stronger person...and that is the type of person you'll need to be to be in an R anyway, and the only chance you'll be the person she could be attracted to again in a future life.
Let me ask- if you knew 100% that no matter what your WAS wouldn't come back...what would you do? I think this is an important question to start thinking about.
My other advice would be not to do ANYTHING at this moment. Control your emotions. They will be so powerful they will create thoughts and perspectives that seem 'real' or 'true'. Your friends will support your craziness. DON'T buy it. You are too emotional to know what you think right now. The mature thing to do at this moment is NOTHING. Just post. Vent. STFU. In poker we call this time-banking. You're making decisions for very high stakes. Don't break down under pressure and get reactive.
So, what are you doing now that you know the R is dead?
I was also wondering about the GAL part. Does time with my childeren included in that? Because unfortunately they take my time from whenever i get off work until 8-9 pm when i put them to bed.
I find that while GAL with my kids is GREAT, it just can't be the only way. Meeting new people, having new experiences is so important to take your mind off of your situation and to help reinvent you. Even if it's just one night a week, that's something.
I plan to continue the path of growth I'm on. I have become a much better father and Home maker(cleaning and caring or my house). My next step like you said is to work on becoming a stronger more attentive person for the future, with or w/o my W. I know I have a long way to go to improve my communication and patience skills. I used to and still get frustrated easily with my W during tough talking points. At this moment it doesnt seem like my W is going to stop this path she has chosen. So like you said I must plan to continue my path of growth and self improvement. Because I want to be this better person I can see myself as.
Although I am not sure how to go about working in my Self esteem. That has been a lifelong issue for me. Bullying and divorced poor quality parents. (One is an alcoholic the other is a sexist pothead) left me without much support as a child and my adult life and relationships have suffered for it. I retreated to video games from a young age and had stayed there most if ny life. If nothing else I am thankful for my W and this OOM. Because the shock of it all and my attempt to win her back has removed the veil from my eyes and allowed me to see that I don't need the VGs to make me happy. I can function much better in life w/o them. I just hope I can keep these changes going. If nothing else at least for my kids sake. They deserve better parents than I had or than I was.
Zeus slapped you with some hard reality above, and I think maybe a little too strongly for someone fresh to the board. He's right, but don't take that as meaning there is no hope. When he says the M is dead, he is referring to your old M. That one is dead and buried and you know what? Good riddance. It obviously wasn't working very well; any R you have with your W in the future will be brand new, and hopefully much better than what you had.
Now it's true that the odds are stacked against you but there are many stories on this board where couples were able to successfully R their M and are doing well today. There is nothing that says you can't be one of those stories some day. It's fine to have a little hope, and I believe it's a key component of helping us to make the necessary changes to ourselves. If there were no hope at all, then most people wouldn't bother to change a thing - what's the point, right?
So you want to have some hope, but there are no guarantees. The good news is that if you follow the advice on this board and from the DB and DR books, you are going to improve yourself in miraculous ways, and it's really going to help you move on with your life, whether that happens to include your W or not. It's going to be a very long process, most likely months or even years. For now, focus on the day in front of you and just take baby steps. What you are going through is probably the worst experience of your life. There are no shortcuts. It's going to be He11 on Earth.
All I can promise you is that it does get better with time, and little by little you will start to realize you are going to be OK. I agree with Zeus about making no major moves right now. In fact, I would wait at least a month. You are going to be all over the place emotionally, sometimes changing your mind from one minute to the next. You will not be thinking logically. Take some time to process this, and start to heal. Then follow the advice here religiously. The people here are all going through or have gone through very similar situations and know what you are feeling. Keep posting, do your best to get some rest and regular meals. Hang in there.
Thank you dwh. I am trying my best to stay upbeat, at least for my kids. It is just very hard to share the same house with her right now, but my kids deserve better than what she is capable of currently. She is moody and constantly tired. I still don't know where this will lead me, but this board has given me optimism for either outcome (D or a fresh R with my wife). While the wounds are still fresh and I am still pained by the thought of a D. I can see myself being a stronger better person at the end of this.
Your W doesnt love her OM, she is infatuated with him and you have been paving the road for her to continue to deepen her affair. Has she faced any consequences from this? Then she has no reason to stop.
Her state of limerence is what has caused her to detach from you and her children. The vast majority of the time WW will eventually reattach with her children - could be a few weeks, months, maybe years. But always well before she re-attaches to her BH.
If she is really willing to give you primary custody right now - you absolutely have to lock this in because she WILL change her mind. I've seen this too many times to count. WW is in la-la land and will give any concession to feed her affair addiction, the BH comes in to see me but is paralyzed out of fear and love. Invariable, reality comes crashing down on WW and she blames all on BH. Then she starts with any weapon she has, insults, bad-mouthing, false accusations, RO's, stealing money, parental alienation. Now the BH is on his back foot, facing every-other weekend custody, 60% of his salary on alimony and child support and everyone thinks he is an abuser. And now he hates his WW, and is kicking himself for not doing something when he had the chance.
Consult an attorney and then either file with them or file yourself immediately. This doesnt mean you will get a divorce, this means that you are in a position of strength - you will control the pace of the petition and you will hold the cards either in an eventual divorce or in a possible reconciliation.
She may seem all but possessed right now, but her short duration, long distance affair will likely crumble when she starts seeing some real consequences. The prospect of losing you AND her children, on legal documents and in physical reality is a very real consequence.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
No fade. Unfortunately she has not had to face aand single consequence for this yet. At least not any that she cares to notice yet. The children notice that she's not the same. But like you said I don't think that will come to fruition till she snaps back to reality.
However as an update from yesterday I think I made a major mistake last night. She wound up having severe abdominal pains so we took her to the hospital because she has a history with liver disease. I will end up breaking down on the way home I did not beg her to be with me or to leave him or anything of that nature but I did cry and say that how much this is hurting me. How I am glad to see her happy but it is still hurting me so bad. Unfortunately this is still fresh for me and seeing her in the hospitalbecause combined with the situation of the current events cause me to lose it on the way home.
And while I am positive that did not help me. It did feel nice to be able to talk to my best friend even though she was high as a kite and probably not listening. It is really amazing what 10 hours of sleep over the course of a week will do to you. I know that I need sleep but at this current point but I cannot seem to shut my brain off.
Also thank you could add I do intend on keeping posting. And I do plan on not letting her see any of it. And as soon as I can get some finances I plan on getting the book. I am the sole provider currently and I only make about 30,000 a year so money is usually an issue. Lol
I feel better now that I've had a few hours sleep since we got home. I'm sorry that my posts always looks so poorly done. Everything I type is through my phone because I do not have a laptop or a PC, and my phone is using Android Gingerbread operating system. Lmao. Actually I got a letter from Sprint in July telling me they are no longer going to cover my phone in November. Lol
Sorry again it just helps to talk to somebody anybody that actually listens. And thank you everyone for your support it really is helping
I will say however I don't know how much it means but she did say last night that we talk more now than we did before him. That was always a big problem with us I checked out and so did she eventually for a very long time.
I've been spending time with the kids a lot and taking them out to the park and things and yesterday she did join me. And actually managed to stay off her phone somewhat. Everyone had fun she seemed to enjoy herself although it did hurt me when she began talking to him again while we were at the park.
DW has a point, maybe I'm a little too abrasive. When I see posts like this last one it just makes me want to drive the point home.
There is SO much pain LBHs cause themselves by constantly temp checking, and trying to figure out if W might still return, what the chances are, whether R would still be possible, how that could still work, etc. But that is the opposite of detachment, and it causes us pain and stunts our growth.
Look at it like you're watching a sports game, and you bet $1,000,000 on the game. Now your team is losing, but there's still some time, and maybe they could make a comeback, but now the third quarter is ticking, but it's still possible, and every time your team gets the ball you get your hopes up on a comeback...this would be a STRESSFUL situation.
No suppose that same game you didn't be any money on, and not only that it was a game that you had recorded but hadn't watched yet, but you already heard your team had lost. Well, knowing the outcome, knowing you didn't bet on the game, you might still watch to see how it played out, but you wouldn't be nearly as concerned about it.
Not a perfect analogy, but my advice to newcomers is not to bet the farm on a game that is lost. Your emotional wellbeing is too much to gamble, particularly when she's already told you the game is over.
LRT is to preserve your wellbeing and maintain self-respect, GAL is to learn to take care of yourself and meet your needs elsewhere so you aren't dependent on someone that isn't there for you, 180s are so your life gets better, and DBing in general is so you can stay true to your belief of standing by your M, whether it looks salvageable or not.
When I was new I was desperate for people to encourage me to have hope based on every kind word my STBX uttered (which was probably out of guilt/manipulation 99% of the time)...but that didn't help me. I wish I'd have listened to the people that were telling me to let go and move forward. Maybe it's too soon still to hear this. I'm sorry guys. I feel the pain Sorgan. I do. I just want you to take care of yourself.
You mentioned low self-esteem, have you ever read how to have a healthy one? Ever had any counseling about your parents and other issues?
A healthy self-esteem needs to be one of your goals to work every day. The WW has no respect for a weak H, and every time you break down in front of her, you put yourself back to square one with her. This is of major importance. Find a group class, research the Internet, get counseling, whatever it takes.
And while I am positive that did not help me. It did feel nice to be able to talk to my best friend even though she was high as a kite and probably not listening.
Your wayward wife is NOT your best friend! Get that part down. Make new friends, look up old friends, turn to us as friends.........but do NOT cry on your WW's sholder. There is only one person's feelings she cares about........and it is her own.
Do not tell her how bad you hurt, nor that you are glad she's happy (due to OOM). The more pathetic you sound, the more it turns her off. You have to learn a new way to live in day to day interaction with her. We can help you with that part.
WW's are tough and only respect a H who stands up for himself and who doesn't tolerate disrespect from her.
I have a small challenge, if you are up for it. Go for an entire week without saying you are sorry. Just try it and see.
Have you read the homework Cadet posted?
Zues, while you have some valid points and great analogies, your opinions are simply that, opinions.
Give the man Hope, give him a hand, don't tell him its all over because quite frankly YOU don't know that.
The OM can backaway, his wife can change ans see things differently through her program, etc., etc. Only GOD knows the outcome.
Have Faith and hope Sorgan. I KNOW THINGS WILL GET BETTER! Because we went through similar situations and I am a happier and more confident, independent because of all of this.
In the bible there are MANY verses on Faith, Hope and LOVE
Which we all need when we are in this terrible situation, I am praying for you and your family Sorgan.
Google them
I found reading the bible helps ALOT!
I understand you are saying Zeus. I know I shouldn't stress myself out over it. I should be here for MY love of the M, not stressing about whether I'm going to "win" the M. That actually is a great analogy.
I have read the first chapter Sandi,but haven't been able to pick up the full book yet(Is there a way to get it on the App Store? I saw two of Michele's books on there but not DR / DB
) Also I will try not to say sorry like you said. But you are refering to apologizing about the M only right? If it's something like messing up a food order or something, I should still apologize, correct?
And as far as counseling and the like, unfortunately I am not in a financial position to afford it right now. Although I would like to.
Actually my favorite bible verse is actually 1 Corinthians. I actually looked it up and am going to add it so I can see and read it as I post to help remind myself.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7 New International Version (NIV)
Love is patient,love is kind. It does not envy,it does not boast,it is not proud. It does not dishonor others,it is not self-seeking,it is not easily angered,it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects,always trusts,always hopes,always perseveres.
I really is a beautiful verse.
You're right ILYNOT. They are just my opinions.
I don't pretend to know whether his M can be saved. My opinion is that emotionally clinging to that as the only acceptable outcome, with WAW finalizing a D equating to the end of the universe is crazy making, painful, and can make growth hard. And that letting go and moving on not only doesn't hurt the chances of rebuilding a new M, it helps it by allowing a return of confidence, personal growth, and serenity.
There's room for feedback from others, and I appreciate everyone for their contributions.
We all feel for you Sorgan and want to help you get to your feet after the gut punch your wife just threw. Digest all these thoughts and see what feels right. I think that all the posts have value and their value is determined by where you are in the moment. Remember this is all about you and your evolution, not her.
Zeus has some great thoughts, and I don't want him to take it like we are beating him up. He's just taking a little tougher stance than some. I agree that it's best for the LBS to really try and let go of the old M. Detachment from the WAS is key to rebuilding a healthy, positive life. What I don't agree with is making the assumption that it's over, done for good, and no chance of ever being with WAS again. To me, that kills hope completely and takes away incentive to want to follow all the great DB techniques. People come here because they want to save their M - end of story. Yes, we realize the odds are against us, and that DBing is really about saving ourselves, regardless of outcome with WAS.
But I believe that you need to keep a small sliver of hope alive that things can still work out. It doesn't mean that you obsess over it, or think about it 24/7. You focus on GAL, PMA, etc. but you always keep in the back of your mind that maybe, just maybe, there's a chance it might all work out. There's also a good chance it won't work out with the WAS, and we have to be willing to accept that very likely scenario. But keeping that hope alive provides the motivation to start and keep making changes, especially early in our stories. As time passes, maybe we start to move away from that mindset, but I don't think there is any one "right" way to proceed. We must all do what works the best for us in our unique life and sitch.
Well said and fully agreed DWH15.
That is a really GOOD verse to read Sorgan 1 corithians 13
Were here for you, remember to let her do what she must, seek free legal representation to get full custody of your children through Fathers Rights.
Detach emotionally, she is no longer yours, so don't bother trying to change her mind just yet.
Stay calm, patience and prayer and GAL, go do things with the kids, on your own.
When I was new I was desperate for people to encourage me to have hope based on every kind word my STBX uttered (which was probably out of guilt/manipulation 99% of the time)...but that didn't help me. I wish I'd have listened to the people that were telling me to let go and move forward. Maybe it's too soon still to hear this. I'm sorry guys. I feel the pain Sorgan. I do. I just want you to take care of yourself.
^^ i think this goes for everyone new on this board. Id encourage you as well to just take care of yourself. Hanging on to her every word, which after a year of separation for me, is difficult to not do because thats all you want to hear. Hope. That somewhere in what she says is the possibility of R.
Apologizing for something like messing up a food order..is small potatoes. Thats the least of your worries..take sandi up on her challenge of going a week without saying sorry. Standup for yourself. I wish i did that much sooner than I did. I know its the hardest thing in the world. Don't be a dick. But don't let her walk all over you. Trust me. it just gives her what she wants and eventually she'll tire of it and all you've done is put yourself in more hurt.
I just wanted to start by thanking everyone for their replies and support. It all has been a big help to me.
Tonight has actually gone better than I was expecting. I made major point not to look or act upset when she had her phone out texting him, and did not mention us as a MR or working on us. Also, I am 12 hours into no sorrys about how I was or doing this to us and the like.
I have kept all our talking friendly and light hearted. She seemed to enjoy all of it. I am still not going to go completely dark or anything, but I am also not smothering her. One of our issues was my checking out for so long and a total breakdown of our communications. So, I am making it a point to try to listen to everything she says and respond nicely. I do initiate it sometimes, but that goes back to one of my 180s. I never used to open up to her and try to have a conversation before. I mean in the beginning i did. But not since the birth of my twins.
My D4 is actually taking notice of my changes and that has helped to solidify my resolve to keep these changes. We were sitting around after dinner and she looked at me and said "Daddy how can you play your games with the doors closed?"( on the entertainment center) and I said "Im not playing my games anymore so that I can spend more time woth you, your sisters, and brother" and she lit up like a christmas tree. Her smile after I said that was all I needed to help me know that this is the path I want no matter what.
I am still working on my anger. Im not violent , but during arguments with my wife I find myself saying hurtful things that I dont mean when I feel attacked. That hasn't been an issue for us in a long time, but mainly because we didnt really talk anymore once I checked out. However, moving forward I know I must adress this to be a better person either way.
My wife is still talking on occasion like there is a future for us. I know not to look into it too much, but it is nice to hear her talking about what we are going to do with our tax return (our twins are ready for twin beds soon lol) and costumes for the kids on Halloween.
I got her to help with the chores around the house tonight for the first time all week, which was nice. We even played rock paper scissors to decide diaper duty. Lol (that used to be a thing we did)(we cloth diaper to save money)
I will update again tomorrow, but any insight and advice is always appreciated. Also, as always if anyone wants clarification or more info about our sitch, just ask. I check here often so I'll reply as soon as I can. Sorry for my walls of text lol, but it feels good to talk about it.
TL;DR Good Night & more details about MR
I got her to help with the chores around the house tonight for the first time all week, which was nice. We even played rock paper scissors to decide diaper duty. Lol (that used to be a thing we did)(we cloth diaper to save money)
I will update again tomorrow, but any insight and advice is always appreciated.
Yes, I have some strong opinions.
Don't make spontaneous decisions throw by throw. Humans are incapable of generating random selections, we have tendencies that can form patterns and are easily influenced by their last throw. Against a good opponent this is the kiss of death.
Instead preselect three throws ahead of time so you aren't vulnerable in this way. This is knows as a 'gambit'. There are a number of gambits (rock/rock/rock = avalanche, paper/scissors/rock = crescendo, paper/scissors/paper = scissors sandwich, etc), get familiar with the combinations. The only time you should stray from your gambit is if you pick up a read on your opponent (either a pattern, or if you notice they start to form their selection too early in the throw and tip you off in time to adjust yours).
Glad we can offer this type of assistance.
OK, hope this cheers someone up tonight. Those than know me know I love games. In reality, this is really sweet, and one of the reasons the loss of an M is so tragic. Way to keep calm and toughen up.
I went to a anger management cognitive therapy IC, for nine months, it helped me a lot. Mindfulness plays a big role in anger management.
I'd recommend losing the anger, getting a PMA and loving those kids. What's not to like about these self improvements?
That did give me a big laugh. Actually I have done it so much with her I know what she is going to throw for 5 throws.I used to make a game to myself about seeing how long i could draw with her. Lol i made it to 12 once.
And my D4 solidified my PMA tonight. It was the best feeling when she smiled abd ran and gave ne a big hug when i told her about my games. That also made me realize that she was a child now and not a toddler anymore. Crazy how fast life goes by sometimes.
I am still working on my anger. Im not violent , but during arguments with my wife I find myself saying hurtful things that I dont mean when I feel attacked. That hasn't been an issue for us in a long time, but mainly because we didnt really talk anymore once I checked out. However, moving forward I know I must adress this to be a better person either way.
Very likely this will happen when you become angry about whats happening. It will come, all apart of the grief process. 'The Solo Partner' was something that helped me to stop reacting to W and something I'm still reading and working on. Its an older book and can be found for only a few dollars online. When we get attacked in that way our minds revert to a defensive place and attach back without thinking. If you understand why you react it helps to stop you but you also just need practice to get catch it before it happens.
As for the hope and letting go, I think it takes a specific balance to get right. Early on in the sitch hope and co-dependency drives us to stay stuck on the W which does have its impacts on our health and sanity. We look at every interaction and snoop to try and piece together what we want to see which is rarely what really is happening. Point being, a nice comment or the W being nice to us doesn't mean they want to be M to us. Even if they do something that shows they love us unintentionally, it doesn't mean we will be together.
Really the issue is accepting whats happening. You can keep hope things may work out in some way in the future but don't get stuck on that as the only possibility. At the point when we get here its more likely we will D, as much as we may not like it.
A good place to start on you might be to figure out why you had an A and why you retreated into video games. I did the same with the games so I understand, I mostly gave them up in January.
I wound up having my A when i was 21. Our M was alreasy strained. It started strained as could be. Looking back it makes me think why we eveb were together. When we were younger my wife had a bad habit of tit for tat. I broke up with her for a month to try being with someone else. So she slept else with someone three days before we got married.
Looking back I realize that I shouldn't have jumped into the marriage then. I loves her so much, but the pain was so bad that I wasn't in love with her then. I didn't want to lose her, and she always seemed to move past me so easily and quickly. So I married her because I had never loved another person, and I didn't want to lose her. She meant the world to me and, even though my pain and resentment was high at that point, I pressed forwardfor our future.
We worked at a pizza place together at this point in our lives. She seemed to love me and that was enough. Until I met a friend of a friend, she was cute and sweet and even though she had no interest in me in that way. My younger socially awkward self thought she might, and that pulled me away from my wife. I wouldnt call it an EA, but my chasing of her angered my wife and cause problems for us.
My W and I stayed together for a few months after that. I got fired from the pizza place (cant be a delivery driver with out a car. Lol) Not long after she quit and started working at a gas station. She worked until 1-2 am sometimes while I sat at home(we lived with her oarents at this point) I tried looking for another job and actually got an interview, but ironically I was arrested for FTA of a speeding ticket the day if my interview.
My father and W bailed me out that day, but I never got a job while we were together with her parents. A few weeks later she kicked me out and we separated for like half a year. It was during this time i met my future A person, but I digress nothing between us then. My W actually started dating the guy she slept with before we got married during this time. It killed me. I chased, begged, did everything I know now I shouldn't have.
They eventually broke up ,it's been ago I cant remember why though, but they did and I was so happy. The pain of it really hurt deep, but again I got back with her. (She dated a few other guys before we did but they were insignificant) We started "dating" again while i lived with my father and she lived with her parents. We were happy again though. We fell back in love but my pain over the OM still was there. We eventually got an apartment together a few months later, but that is when the problems returned.
She had begun working at Walmart then. I was working for my father(still am
) she would work nights and i worked days. At this point I checked out to games for the first time. It kept me busy while she was at work and kept my from thinking about the pain I still hadn't addressed from the OM. I never did the chores. Looking back I know it wasnt fair to her, I can say how she felt but I know she wasnt happy anymore looking back. We began to argue and fight again.
Looking back I realize what a monster I was. I would lash out with horrible comments and we both began hitting each other briefly (these years werr the darkest time in our M) she was the first to hit me however she stopped hitting me after the first few times i pushed back. She got pregnant during this time but lost it(she had a clotting problem we didn't know about.) It was only a miscarriage but it meant something to her then. The night she passed it I was asleep when it happend(it was so early on the dr made had her pass it at home) she tried to wake me up to come see it, but I got angry when she woke up(no violence but i did flip over our night stand) i yelled at her, showed no empathy, looked at it in the toilet and went back to sleep. All while she was in tears over the loss. These words are so painful to type and read now, but they are what happened.
We went along with our lives. Still fighting although not so much in the violence because she had quit initiating it. I remained checked out on games. She lived her life. A few months later I becan talking to an OW (my EA/PA) It felt so good to feel wanted and listened to again. I didnt talk to my W at that point to avoid the fights. We still talked a little and fought though. My wife wound up pregnant again with my son at this point(she lost him at 21 weeks but he was my son) We moved into a new apartment and she had changed jobs to almost a 3rd shift in the bakery of Walmart.
I talked to the OW for 3 months all while my wife and I fought and made up and the like. Looking back I know the OW didnt like me, but what I represented to her. Me and the OW saw each other, but nothing physical aside from hugs and a peck kiss or two. The A finally came to an end after the first time we were physical. I wanted it so badly before it happened, but after I was racked with guilt and pain. I ended it with her the next day.
She texted my phone a few days after that and said that she was ok with thing, but felt like she was used. My W saw the text not me. She took my phone to work and kept texting the OW to find out what happened. She left work early that day and came home to confront me. I was still detached and checked out, but when she confronted me I lied. I didnt want to lose my wife or fight again so I lied to make it seem less painful. I was so wrong for that, but I cant change the past.
My kids are all waking up so I am going to have to finish the rest of the story later. As always sorry for the massive wall of text and god bless you if you read it all, but i woke up to a quiet house and felt like talking (typing) to abyone that will hear me.
The hurt is strong inside me right now when i look back on our history. It was so messed up. We had good times in there, it was just far outweighed by the bad.
imo, it just sounds like you 2 never resolved any issues...sleeping with someone 3days before getting M...pretty big deal..not sure i could even still marry her if she did that. I feel that you guys (granted you married very young) didnt fully understand M and just bounced around to various people to get your EA/PA needs met.
Obviously you've matured since then..but I'm wondering, have you ever truly forgiven her for cheating on you and the things she did? Has she ever done the same for you? Why not seek counseling years ago when all this happened?
Yes I truly fogave hwr for all that is in the past when my first daughter was born. We tried counseling. It lasted 3 sessions. Im not sure if it was the counselor or her but I really gave it a go. I thought it was helping, but she didn't seem to want to listen to anything he had to say. My faults always outweighed hers no matter what it seemed.
I have matured and done AM since those dark times. I am a better person but it feels she hasnt noticed or cared. She refuses to consider counseling right now.
I will say i am beginning to see the fluxuations of a WW in her more prevalently. She acts nice to me ine minute and horrid the next. She jokes about having sex with me(I say no thanks each time) but all the while she texts and talks to him.
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Is this the wrong approach. I dobt want to go totally dark because I feel like it would be seen as more of the same. Also I havebt cut her phone off. Should I be doing things like that or trying to be sweet? And under sny circumstances is it of to talk about our past?
I dont want her to see me cutting the phone off as an act of jealousy and I want to work to resolve her issues about me and our past.
Couldnt edit the last post
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Explain how you try to engage her in friendly conversations and are nice even when she gets angry.
I dont want her to see me cutting the phone off as an act of jealousy and I want to work to resolve her issues about me and our past.
How do you want her to see it?
My faults always outweighed hers no matter what it seemed.
I felt my W did the exact same thing and its one of the things I'm working on right now actually. Throughout our M she seen things in a different way and things I did that were minor were so much worse than the moderate-major things she did. I've realized even the way she tells others her point of view is flawed and gives a completely different view of what really happened, but I'm sure on some level this happens to everyone. In my case it bothered me to the point where it was my button pushing and I would react instantly, much like you have said you do. You cant tell or show her faults to her because you already know that doesn't work. You have to own your own faults when criticized and avoid attacking her without reacting at all, this is the only way she will see her own faults.
I have matured and done AM since those dark times. I am a better person but it feels she hasnt noticed or cared. She refuses to consider counseling right now.
She is focused on what she thinks will make her happy, which is working(or so she thinks right now) so theres no reason she would care about your changes. The changes are you for anyway.
I will say i am beginning to see the fluxuations of a WW in her more prevalently. She acts nice to me ine minute and horrid the next. She jokes about having sex with me(I say no thanks each time) but all the while she texts and talks to him.
She will act that way as long as shes in the fog and thinking about him.
I am wondering if I am taking the right approach. I am not showering her with gifts or anything, but since i checked out for so long I am trying tobe engage her in friendly conversations now and be nice with her even when she gets angry. I try to help her around the house and such.
Is this the wrong approach. I dobt want to go totally dark because I feel like it would be seen as more of the same. Also I havebt cut her phone off. Should I be doing things like that or trying to be sweet? And under sny circumstances is it of to talk about our past?
Going totally dark might be more of the same, but the dynamics are different also. Pulling back would be the more appropriate term and action. You want have positive interactions but move forward with your life also. One point is not being the door mat and I'm sure that's leading down sandi's line of questions which I would pay attention too.
I try to talk about the kids or TV shows.(we both love Gane of Thrones) It sounds bad but we gang up on people together. (Not bullying but we talk gossip to each other and judge peoole together) That was one thing we got from MC was the therapist said we team up against otgers well. Lol
I try to keep it off of us and how we are unless she goes there.
And Fogg I was referring to before my DB changes. She always seemed to have the same opinions and old views of me. She has noticed the DB changes.
I am not looking into it too much because she atill hasnt hit bottom and begged to work on things. But we seemed to have a pleasant family dinner out tonight, and she actually stayed off her phone the whole time. I am thinking it was because on the ride to the restaurant she wanted to talk about our potential D a little (Kids visitation and such mostly)(She still hasnt committed to saying we are gonna D for sure yet, but somehow it moved to me, and I told her "Sure I want things to work between us because you are my wife and the mother of my children, but I know either way I will be happy."
I realized last night that I am moving from depression to anger over all of this. Once we got home from dinner she acted nice to me. We put the kids to bed. Then like a light switch about 10-20 minutes after the kids went to bed she didnt want anything to do with me. I couldn't figure it out until about half an hour later when OM called.
Maybe this is normal. I am reading as much on this board as I can in my free time to try to learn more to help myself. I know I still need to detach better, and I am working on it. I am wondering though. Is behavior like this normal for a WW? To act nice to me, almost to the point that we seem ok, one minute, and then to almost act like she hates me the next.
I am reading Sandis "Newcomer LBH with a WAW" to try to help inform myself. I saw a couple of posts about a "script". Is there anywhere where some more info on that would be on that? I know the script of how the OM came into the picture. He was nice and funny to her in the game. Then from there it moved to flirting and finally they came to where she is now, an EA.
As always thanks for all your insight and care guys. I know you want to help me come out of this stronger and a better person no matter the outcome.
Both her behavior & your moving through depression and anger are very, very normal. It is (part of) why detachment and GAL are so important: so you don't get reactive to these powerful stimuli. You will likely swing around emotionally a lot, from sadness, anger, hope, hurt, etc. Even when you've been relatively calm for a while, these can still jump up and bite us in the a$$.
Here's what I discovered about my first swing to the angry phase. I had apologized over and over. I had taken the steps & done the work to right the problematic behavior. I had taken steps to make amends. And, yet nothing worked. If anything, she responded with more distance and boundaries. I started to get angry that she wasn't forgiving me and moving back toward me. I felt like she was being irrational for hurting me more when I did what she said she wanted. Sound familiar?
Here are some other things. My anger was a combination of frustration and a much deeper hurt and fear. Being a guy, socialized the way we are on emotions, it was much easier to let the anger free, and much harder to recognize and embrace the other two deeper, more painful emotions. After all, that would be to admit I couldn't just fix things. That would mean I wasn't in control. That would mean I was a failure. That is a hard place to go for most of us guys, at least in our culture.
So, I let myself be angry, but I also allowed myself to feel the hurt, sadness, and fear that were under the anger. I also learned to stop seeing things from just my perspective and wanting to control my W's feelings and behaviors and see things from her perspective. I put myself in her shoes. I imagined myself a very hurt person who was afraid the person who she had put so much hope and trust in would hurt me. That his actions showed that he didn't listen to me, but now that I'm out the door and he will lose me he will change to try to get me back to that painful arrangement. It is still all about him and his needs, not me and my needs. I don't want him to show me he can be a good H, I want him to give me the space I asked for. I want him to hear me, and even if it is very hard for him, to set aside his needs and help me meet my needs. Every action he takes is just trying to get past my boundaries, and that scares me. Why won't he just give me what I've asked for this once. Not what I asked for long ago, that is past. What I've asked for now.
It is hard, because we are focused on the past and fear of a future wo/ the woman we do love. We need to focus on the present and addressing the present needs and requests of the woman we love. There may come a time when your new behavior will count with her again, and you still need to do the work to change. It's just not sufficient by itself. You also need to really, really back off. To switch your focus to you. To figure out who you want to be & what your life can be wo/ her. Maybe then, after the dust has settled, she'll start to be attracted to the interesting man you've become, notice the changes, notice that you are sustaining them as part of your life rather than as a ploy to get her back.
In the meantime. Respect your anger. Let yourself feel it. Explore what is under it (anger is usually triggered by deeper emotions,like fear & hurt). And, try to limit the damage of letting it drive your words and actions.
Good luck. It is frustrating.
That actually sounds very familiar. That is actually wonderfully put about not giving her what she wanted then, and thinking she wants the same thing now. As hard as it is I guess I need to give her what she wants now.
It is what you want too, if you hope to get another chance. It is love, but at the same time it gives your M its best shot.
You'll have time to demonstrate the new, more considerate you. In the meantime, focus on how you are going to be the happier, more interesting you regardless of what she does. Again, good for you, good for her, good for your R.
It's tough. I tended to recognize intellectually what to do & not to do. Didn't always keep me from following that insight in the day-to-day. I know you've been told this repeatedly, but it will get easier. I'd add, then it will get harder, then easier, and so on. Overall, the harder wont be as hard and wont last as long, and the easier will be more easy (?) and last longer.
Expect some mistakes as you re-orient, but also that they are only a real problem if you keep making them. Again, easy to say, hard to remember when you've just f*cked up.
I am logical too. So I get what needs to be done MOST of the time. However, actually following through with it is another story all together.
I bought "The 5 languages of love" today and am reading through it. It is helping me get that my wife's language wasn't verbal like me. So all the years of me telling her how pretty she was or how much i liked her cooking etc. Wasn't the love she needed.
I am finding it harder to detach while my wife and I share the house. She talks and acts like we are still together half the time and it kills me because I know that isnt the case. It make me hope more and i know that will only make it harder as she delves deeper into her WWness(?). I am trying to do it. I know I need to for my own sanity, but actually detaching is hard when she rubs on me or talks about our future with the kids.
I wish i could get into her head and actually trust i know what she is feeling. I know she is probably lying even to herself at this point.
Just take her request for space seriously. Don't try to figure out the rest. And, don't go trying to apply the 5 Languages right now. Right now she wants nothing to do with your love languages. Store that one in your back pocket for the time being.
Focus on you, not her right now. You'll hopefully have time later to show her you can express your love in a way she wants to hear, but right now she's not going to hear anything other than you pursuing her when she's made clear that is unwelcome.
Sorgan, asitis is offering very good advice, "Focus on you, not her right now".
I have be focusing on myself for about a month now. One thing I have learned is that no other way will work. Sure I make mistakes, everyone does. The sun comes up the next day and you try again. I see very small changes from my actions. Right now I have succeeded in not making it worse. It may not get better but it is not getting worse.
Work on yourself Sorgan.
I am doing the book for me. What I learn may be used for her later, but for whoever I am with it helps to grasp that love is more than compliments and gifts.
It is just killing me inside seeing her so willing to destroy our M. She is planning to go to Fl to meet this guy next weekend. She want to chase that rabbit til it dies. She has even brought up the prospect of having another child with him. It kills me to hear that stuff. It brings a whole deeper level of pain to the picture to see her so determined on this OM. I am not sure how serious most WWs get with the OM, but it brings fear to a whole new level to have to worry and wonder what could happen.
I am trying hard not to pursue her. I still slip up, more so when it feels like she is conflicted. Which is probably just her temp checking, but it feels so real sometimes.
She doesn't like when I'm angry about it all, but that doesn't mean her mind has changed. I wish I could be stronger and detach better, for my sake at this point. It hurts so bad to see her want to be with this guy so badly.
I wish my kids were older so it was easier to get out of the house more. Instead I feel like I'm a maid to her sometimes. I am trying not to push her farther into it, but she seems to almost dare me into Filing for D or anything like that. It really makes me feel like she hates me. Like our M is doomed in every form it could be.
I just feel so lost and overwhelmed. I feel totally powerless. I am struggling to focus on myself. It is easy sometimes to forget the he!! I'm in, but just when I think it is gone. She reminds me she is choosing him and im right back in the heartache and pain.
It is overwhelming at times, and it hurts like h*ll. Others, who are just ordinary folks w/ no special powers have made it through. Some saved their M. Some didn't, but were able to move on stronger & better able of having future Rs. It seems impossible now at times, but you can get through this and come out the other end too.
Have you had a chance to read Sandi2's threads advising LBHs w/ WW? If not, there is a lot of gold in those.
Hang in there.
I am on the 3rd set working my way through them. I really value her insight as a former WW. She always has wonderful info to help people.
I know I am bettering myself for whatever the outcome, and while I know there is light at the end of the tunnel, it is so hard to see it most of the time.
I feel like crap today. My wife can't seem to let go of any of our past. With how strained our past is, I feel like that damns any future we could have. I am not the same person I was and I hate that she can't see who I am now(not DB 180s, just my growth as a person)
Today has been good. The heartache isnt as prevalent now, and being back at work helps. I am still doing cleaning and the like around the house for my kids sake(they shouldn't suffer because of this).
I am working on GAL still, but it is hard when my kids and work keep me busy from 7am til 9pm. Plus I'm broke(Just had to pay $600 between cable and cellphones) so that limits my options too. However, my optimism, confidence, and sense of humor are coming back so I feel better than I have in a lo.g time.
I am going to try to find some things to keep my occupied after the kids go to bed(only so much cleaning I can do now that I have done most of the house lol) I am probably going to find a show or book to occupy me, because that is when the hurt is at it's strongest(after the kids go to bed abd i'm stuck in the the house with her)
I hope I am doing good for a week since BD. Thank you guys for your support, advice, and ears. Ill post more later guys.
As it appears, life goes on, but I think my M will not. Sharing the same house I am horrible at giving her the space she wants, and I have succeeded in doing nothing but push her away. Although she probably already walked away years ago. She still sees me as a monster, and when W is angry, she lashes out horribly and makes me feel like it is all my fault.
I feel horrible for how I was, and how I still can do nothing but mess everything up. I will try to keep my head up and I will try to keep posting, but most of the time i don't have the heart to do so. My W was my world and I ignored her for years. I pushed her to where she is and now I guess I'm in for a lot of suffering. I don't even know where to turn for advice anymore.
Sorgan -
Its tough, but you arent that far out. Dont worry if you make a mistake. No single action is going to be the "end". If you say or do the wrong thing, just learn from it and move forward.
What are you doing to GAL, even if its inexpensive? Are there meetups you can join? Even one a week is great. What about taking the kids to the library? How about going to a friend's to share a bottle of wine or 6 pack and watch a game? Theres lots of ways you can get out for cheap....its just a matter of being creative. You NEED to show yourself that you are capable as a person and as a parent all by yourself.
The capable as a parent part I have proven to myself. My W naps every afternoon from when i get home til dinner(I guess all her late night phone calls with her BF/OM get to her) So I am alone with them all afternoon and do fine. My main trouble is after the kids go to bed, I wind up eventually pestering my W to try to spend some time together and it does nothing but piss her off most of the time.
I am afraid to go out and do things after they go to bed because I dont want to worsen things with my W. I can't leave well enough alone it seems most of the time. She has said she wants nothing at all to do with me ever again, that our bridge is destroyed and she has no interest in trying to buold a new one, and she never wants to see me again after the D. No one has filed yet though. I just am so fearful of losing her, but the reality is that I am probably going to.
I don't know how most SOs are at this point. Especially WAWs(?) Not sure if she is that or what she is anymore. I have realized she isnt a WW though now. She is too into having a relationship with OM and shows no desire to want to R with me. She says that our M was over before OM.
I guess I need to grow a pair and actually get out of the house to see if that would help. Thank you for replying Azzork. It really does help to have someone respond to my posts. Lol
The capable as a parent part I have proven to myself. My W naps every afternoon from when i get home til dinner(I guess all her late night phone calls with her BF/OM get to her) So I am alone with them all afternoon and do fine.
Not sure what you are doing with them....but I mean going out and getting things done - shopping, outings, etc.
My main trouble is after the kids go to bed, I wind up eventually pestering my W to try to spend some time together and it does nothing but piss her off most of the time.
[quote=Sorgan]I am afraid to go out and do things after they go to bed because I dont want to worsen things with my W. I can't leave well enough alone it seems most of the time. She has said she wants nothing at all to do with me ever again, that our bridge is destroyed and she has no interest in trying to buold a new one, and she never wants to see me again after the D. No one has filed yet though. I just am so fearful of losing her, but the reality is that I am probably going to.
Answer me honestly: how much WORSE can your situation get than what I marked in blue?
I don't know how most SOs are at this point. Especially WAWs(?) Not sure if she is that or what she is anymore. I have realized she isnt a WW though now. She is too into having a relationship with OM and shows no desire to want to R with me. She says that our M was over before OM.
Im not sure youre understanding correctly. By having OM, she is the definition of a WW...
I guess I need to grow a pair and actually get out of the house to see if that would help.
Its about doing what works. Its not about being a man. Its about finding a healthy way to deal with the pain you are going through so that you dont do things that you will regret later.
I usually take the to the park every other day now. Not as much this week. I havent done shopping or anything much in those lines with them, but we have gotten out of the house just the 5 of us.
It cant get worse than that to me. I am still in a bit of denial that it won't happen, but that is the worst it could get.
She has said she was unhappy for probably about the last two years. I just never listened or thought she was mad because we were fighting. The OM has only been in the picture for about a month, but she considers herself his gf and our M is already over.
Honestly, my biggest regret will be that it feels like I have done this to myself and now that I am trying full force to be a good husband I am only succeeding in pushing her away and making her more angry. I know Im early on in the whole thing, but it still feels like everything I do matter and could be the difference between D and R.
I usually take the to the park every other day now. Not as much this week. I havent done shopping or anything much in those lines with them, but we have gotten out of the house just the 5 of us.
Thats a start. Time to start showing that you can go to more difficult places. The grocery store. Out to dinner. To the library. Stuff like that.
It cant get worse than that to me. I am still in a bit of denial that it won't happen, but that is the worst it could get.
She has said she was unhappy for probably about the last two years. I just never listened or thought she was mad because we were fighting. The OM has only been in the picture for about a month, but she considers herself his gf and our M is already over.[/qupte]
Its easy for her to rewrite history. And common. Dont beat yourself up over it. Read the LBH threads by Sandi2.
[quote=Sorgan]Honestly, my biggest regret will be that it feels like I have done this to myself and now that I am trying full force to be a good husband I am only succeeding in pushing her away and making her more angry. I know Im early on in the whole thing, but it still feels like everything I do matter and could be the difference between D and R.
A few things:
1) You didnt do this by yourself. It takes 2 people to bring down a marriage. Figure out your part and clean it up. Learn from the mistakes you made and figure out how to correct those things about yourself.
2) STOP trying to be a great husband. Youve been fired as a hasband. Be a great dad, a great man, a great person. But your job is no longer as husband.
3) Everything you do DOES make a difference. But not to HER. It does for your growth. It does for your R with your kids. But she is not looking to you to be her husband anymore, so you dont need to be. Anything you do as a "husband" will just add to her resentment.
Lets be clear. There is nothing you can say or do
today that will snap her out of her fog. You are in this for the long haul, Sorgan.
You played a part in the breakdown of your M but always remember that there are 2 people involved. You can own your half, but the rest is on your W. She made vows to you on your wedding day to love, honor, and cherish til death, but she bails out when things get a little rocky, while you are still trying.
Yes, your W is a WW, by definition. She has checked out, moved on and does not want you as a H right now. That doesn't mean she will feel that way forever. Do you think that she married you years ago, but didn't truly love you and planning to hang on just until someone better came along? Of course not. How she feels today doesn't mean she will feel the same next week, next month, or next year. For now though, you need to give her the space she is asking for. Quit trying to be her H. She fired you from that job. Focus on you, and detach from WW. Nobody knows what the future holds, but you need to take actions now to make sure that you will be OK regardless of what WW does.
I just want to say thanks to you two first thing. Talking to you guys is helping me not to text her, which isnt what she wants or what i should be doing.
I understand about the it takes two to crumble a M, but she tried for years to get me to talk to her and spend time with her. I can see that now that I am out of my fog, but now she is buried in hers.
She says her love for me died over the years as I check out on my xbox. I just have such a hard time with the thought that me ignoring her completely will do anything to help my M. I know the techniques here are for me mainly, not my M. I just have such a hard time with them because all I want is to fix this, and that is out if my hands now.
I am going to try to do something by myself tonight. I have some extra cash from selling my xbox. So I'm going to try to get out of the house.
It is a difficult concept to grasp, that leaving WW alone is for the best, especially when you have a history of that as a problem. The reality is that the dynamics of the sitch have changed. You coming after WW isn't going to do anything but push her further awayaway. She doesn't want you to chase her. It's going to hurt you, hurt your chances of a R, and just make your W resent you even more. It will be hard to stick to this at first, but it's what is best for you and gives your M the best shot. Getting out of the house is a good idea. If you can meet some friends or family, even better. Try to do something you really enjoy or get around some people you can open up with. I've found that talking with others really helps me not focus on my own problems. Hang in there. It's a long journey ahead and you are just taking the first steps.
I understand about the it takes two to crumble a M, but she tried for years to get me to talk to her and spend time with her. I can see that now that I am out of my fog, but now she is buried in hers.
Would you get mad at a carpenter that built a chitty house if he had no nails? You didnt have the tools you needed to build a healthy M. Thats what this is about...learning for the future.
She says her love for me died over the years as I check out on my xbox. I just have such a hard time with the thought that me ignoring her completely will do anything to help my M. I know the techniques here are for me mainly, not my M. I just have such a hard time with them because all I want is to fix this, and that is out if my hands now.
Unfortunately, there isnt anything to fix. Except for you. You arent getting out of the house to repair your marriage. Youre going out to repair the damage youve done to you. Im sure you can see the difference between sitting and playing xbox and going out to a meetup group to meet new friends.
This is going to be counterintuitive. But its what works.
I am going to try. Because so far while there were brief moments it seemed to help, for the most part trying to spend time with her has pushed her away. I know I will struggle with this part the most. Like you said it is very counter intuitive. I will probably stumble at it, but I am going to try to be more active on the board to help me stay away from her.
I am just gripped with fear and pain and loneliness when im not around her. It is hard opening your eyes to see the amazing person you had by your side walking away and not caring.
I would like to ask how dark should I be to her at this point? And other than GAL and giving her space is there anything else I should be or could be doing?
I would like to ask how dark should I be to her at this point? And other than GAL and giving her space is there anything else I should be or could be doing?
Theres only so dark that you can go. You have 4 little kids and are living together. In my opinion, you only really need to talk about the kids/schedules and the finances/house. Otherwise, Id really only talk about inane topics like youd discuss with a friendly neighbor....the weather, tv shows, etc.
As for other things. Well....have you started working on you yet? Have you set goals? Do you have some 180s you are working on?
My 180 was shutting off my xbox and phone games and trying to focus on her and the kids.
And any time I bring up anythong like that (turning off her phone since she is using it for OM, D or custody of kids after) she gets very angry and starts yelling "well do it, file, I'm ready"(D) or "ill just go get a phone on my mothers plan, she already offered"(phone) or "I wont do split custody, Im moving out if the state" (kids)
And no as it stands my GAL is 0. I sit at home do cjores and try to watch Game of Thrones until O cant take it anymorr and go bug her
And my only goal since BD has been to try and save my M. I know it is out of ny hands now, but it is so hard to leave it be.
My 180 was shutting off my xbox and phone games and trying to focus on her and the kids.
OK...thats one. But thats not enough!
What else are you doing. What else did she complain about? What else do you think isnt good?
CaliGuy talks about making 3 lists.
1) Things your W complains about
2) Things you dont like about yourself
3) Things you admire in other guys
I'd make these lists, and then you try to replace the qualities in you that reside in lists 1 + 2 with those from list 3.
Also, the 180 cant be to pend more time with HER. She doesnt want that. But spend time with your kids!
And any time I bring up anythong like that (turning off her phone since she is using it for OM, D or custody of kids after) she gets very angry and starts yelling "well do it, file, I'm ready"(D) or "ill just go get a phone on my mothers plan, she already offered"(phone) or "I wont do split custody, Im moving out if the state" (kids)
Nope. Dont bring it up. Dont try to force your changes on her. Dont try to get HER to change. Just change, and let her do her.
And no as it stands my GAL is 0. I sit at home do cjores and try to watch Game of Thrones until O cant take it anymorr and go bug her
So how are you going to fix that? Whats the difference between watching TV and playing video games?
And my only goal since BD has been to try and save my M. I know it is out of ny hands now, but it is so hard to leave it be.
Thats fine to be your overall goal. As MWD writes, thats the hole. But thats 30 feet away. Lets start by aiming 2 feet away. What "mini-goals" are you going to set for yourself that will get you closer to that goal? Use the exercise I wrote about ^^^ to get those planned.
That actually is a good idea about the lists. Ill try to write one out tonight after the kids go to bed.
Her biggest complaint was always the lack of time and activities between us.
Also that would be a 180 for me to actually go out and GAL. I havent gone out without her in probably 2 years. Probably never in my adult life if you take away goung yo my friends to hang out.
Would that be a good thing to do? Or would that piss her off more? Or should I care at this point?
Sorry if my questions seem stupid. I just really am going atthe this very blindly.
Her biggest complaint was always the lack of time and activities between us.
Also that would be a 180 for me to actually go out and GAL. I havent gone out without her in probably 2 years. Probably never in my adult life if you take away goung yo my friends to hang out.
Would that be a good thing to do? Or would that piss her off more? Or should I care at this point?
Yeah, but she doesnt want to spend time with you now. So pushing her to do it isnt valuable. BUT going out and making new friends and doing new things will help rebuild your confidence, will help your PMA, and those are both very good things. And it will keep your mind occupied so you dont go bug your W.
There are no stupid questions here.
How should I take this?
I found a turtle at work we are going to take to back animal rehab center tomorrow (it's eyes are damaged), and when i got home she proceeds to cuddle up to me and wants to look at turtles and talk about getting one and just having a nice conversation. She was very sweet and nice, it almost felt like things were good. She is texting him again now though.
Was that temp checking? Is she conflicted? How do I take actions like that where she initiates it? I did not start the conversation and had planned on giving her the space she seemed to want so badly last night. Any opinions would be appreciated.
Honestly, my biggest regret will be that it feels like I have done this to myself and now that I am trying full force to be a good husband I am only succeeding in pushing her away and making her more angry. I know Im early on in the whole thing, but it still feels like everything I do matter and could be the difference between D and R.
If you have read my first thread on WW's, then you know that this ^^^ does push her further away. As Azzork has said, she's fired you as her H. She doesn't want you to show her what a great H you can be........
now. She is done. The harder you try to be what she wanted you to be in the past, the harder she will fight you, b/c it ticks her off.
I think this is a difficult concept for some LBH'S. They are finally awake and ready to do anything to save the M. However, it is too late to use the old methods he might have used when she still wanted the M. He has to change the dynamics by changing methods.
I found a turtle at work we are going to take to back animal rehab center tomorrow (it's eyes are damaged), and when i got home she proceeds to cuddle up to me and wants to look at turtles and talk about getting one and just having a nice conversation. She was very sweet and nice, it almost felt like things were good. She is texting him again now though.
Was that temp checking? Is she conflicted? How do I take actions like that where she initiates it? I did not start the conversation and had planned on giving her the space she seemed to want so badly last night. Any opinions would be appreciated.
These type of situations can really confuse a newcomer. My advice is to not read anything into it. The WW can act as if she has a split personality at times. Yes, she could have been temp checking, or she may have wanted the cuddling. Who knows? Some WW's continue to have sex with the LBH, but she still doesn't want to be M to him.
If you intend for your plan to be effective, then you have to apply it during these short lived moments, instead of reading some kind of meaning into it.
My interpretation of going dark is when the WW sees nothing and hears nothing, whatsoever, from the LBH. How can you go dark with four little kids? In trying to act "dark" while under the same roof, it basically just makes you appear as though you are angry and sulking. My advice is to fully apply the 37 rules and detach. If you can lick that much.......I don't think you'll have to worry about going dark.
Thanks Sandi2 for the advice. And Im actually on the 4th set of your WW threads. I am trying to apply the rules but struggle sometimes. Especially after we have moments like that or today when we took the turtle and went to the park with the kids. She didnt text him the whole time until we were leaving the park.
It is times like these that I struggle the most. I get hurt when reality sets back in and it becomes clear that she doesnt want to be with ne right now.
She want to be with him and follow that road til it is dead. The OM seems to be set in for the long haul too. That is when the fear is the strongest and the pain it's worst. Because the OM doesnt care that he is destroying a family. She doesn't care about us being a family. All I want is my W back. I know I'm in for a long winter. And I'm sure if/when we S the pain will be stronger than ever.
I just have to detach better, but it is hard realizing what a great W I had. Seeing her beautiful self around me and wanting to kiss and hold her, but knowing I cant. I just hate that I am left to wait and see what happens, and hope that things will work out for us.
I hope it happens before they meet and it becomes a PA. That will be my breaking point. I just fear that no matter what, that will happen, and I will have to firgive an entirely different entity. I don't know if I could. Not after seeing all that they have messaged. I would constantly worry about what happened between them to
How should I handle my W's Naps and sleeping in? She naps every afternoon and Sleeps way in in the weekends. Now I must say she is a Diabetic so some of it could be her Blood Sugar, but I also know that most nights she stays up until at least 3 am talking to OM.
I don't want to be an a-hole and push her away, but I also feel it is a bit of cake eating to let her nap when she stays up late talking to OM.
Have you tried being gone and leaving the kids for her keep during her regular nap time and or weekends?
Her regular nap time is about 3-6 pm. Usually i get off work about 4. Sometimes I work later that that. But usually she ties the youngest 3 into their rooms for "nap" (the twins don't nap and just destroy their room) (my s1 still naps tho) and then she gives the tablet to my d4 to occupy her abd proceeds to nap herself.
Often lately I come home to a house in complete dissaray with food obviously taken from the cabinets or fridge by the children and not her. All the while she is in the MBR sleeping. Stains on the carpet and toys everywhere (I wonder if she actually does anything while I'm at work but talk to OM) She usually wakes up if I make noise cleaning the mess, but goes right back to sleep after she sees me.
If i ask her if she has done anything with the kids during the day she gets very angry and exclaims that the house was clean an hour ago. So i have stopped asking.
And if I try to go out eveb to the store for wipes and sugar like I tried today, she also get extremely angry about having to wake up. So I wet paper towels and make due. It is just very frustrating to me because she wasnt always this bad. I hate seeing her act this way and I feel so bad for our kids. I can't afford a nanny for the kids while I'm at work(I think they need someone else besides her watching them currently )
I just wish she could see the damage she is causing the kids, let alone the MH(our carpets and walls are almost all ruined from crayons, syrup, etc.)
Well apparently she was awake just now. She just didn't come out if the MBR because she was texting OM.
Any advice on that one? She will probably do it no matter what huh?
Any advice on that one? She will probably do it no matter what huh?
You answered your own question. Yes, WW is going to do whatever she feels like doing, including texting OM to her heart's content any time of day or night. Nothing you can say is going to convince her otherwise, and will likely just make her angry. Let it be.
Your main concern should be your kids. If WW is truly not paying attention to them while she is supposed to be responsible, then maybe it is time to look into some sort of daycare. I would start documenting what you have described, in terms of the condition of the house, the behavior and attitude of WW, etc. If you get to a point of filing for D, those kinds of details can weigh heavily in your favor on custody issues. Don't let WW know about the logs, but do make a backup and I would recommend emailing a copy at least once a week to your attorney, or at least a close friend/family member. With any luck, you never have to use them, but much better to be prepared.
Well my W continues to amaze me in her delusions and anger at me. She has to pick up our kids today between noon and one. I texted her at 10:30 to ask if she was awake. I got no response for an hour. I just called her as it is 11:30 to see if she was up. She gets mad at me and tells me I am controlling her and is just mad at me.
Is this normal? Should I just go as dark as possible at this point? Because she seems way hooked on OM and Im just the enemy.
Yeah it's par for the course I'm afraid. She will accuse you of being pressuring and controlling any time you question her or, frankly, any time she feels like it. Go as dark as possible because you will be the enemy for as long as the OM is in the picture.
Well my W continues to amaze me in her delusions and anger at me. She has to pick up our kids today between noon and one. I texted her at 10:30 to ask if she was awake. I got no response for an hour. I just called her as it is 11:30 to see if she was up. She gets mad at me and tells me I am controlling her and is just mad at me.
Is this normal? Should I just go as dark as possible at this point? Because she seems way hooked on OM and Im just the enemy.
I know where youre coming from. Buuuuuuuuuut. This comes off to me as questioning her capacity as a mother. Im pretty sure you wouldnt have any of it if her actions suggested to you that you cant take care of your kids...
Have to agree with Az on this one. She wasn't late yet, but you felt the need to remind her to pick up the kids. As a normal couple, this would be appreciated, or at least no big deal. But with how things currently are, it sounds like control. Next time, no reminders. Let her manage her time like a big girl. If she actually misses picking up the kids and you have to step in, then you take action to correct.
I never thought of it like that. I wasn't questioning her as a mom (at least not to her face) but I get how that would piss her off if she saw it that way. I do it most mornings when she has to take the kids to school. -_-
This whole sich jist blows me away. I am trying to do the right thing, but what's right seems to change minute by minute with her.
because something tells me she would be pissed if I didnt wake her up tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice guys.
I am trying to get it right, but it is so hard sometimes. Lol At least I am smiling still.
I never thought of it like that. I wasn't questioning her as a mom (at least not to her face) but I get how that would piss her off if she saw it that way. I do it most mornings when she has to take the kids to school. -_-
This whole sich jist blows me away. I am trying to do the right thing, but what's right seems to change minute by minute with her.
because something tells me she would be pissed if I didnt wake her up tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice guys.
I am trying to get it right, but it is so hard sometimes. Lol At least I am smiling still.
If you learn nothing while you are here, remember this:
Her perception is her realityYou may think you are being helpful, being a good dad, being a great husband. But if she thinks that you are being annoying, or judging her, or are actively undermining her ability to properly parent, then to HER, thats what youre doing. Your intentions and how you read the situation dont matter any more.
So, when you are dealing with a WW, theres no room for error on these, as she is always going to read you in that manner. Its not changing - you just are only looking at it from your perspective of her, not from her perspective of you.
Could you guys and gals help me understand that perspective or point me toactually a book or thread? Because I really am having a hard time with that then. I cant figure out her perspective of me at all.
The best help in your situation would be to click on Sandi's username and begin reading her posts. She will give you the perspective of a wayward wife. It is very helpful information, and almost spot on for how most women in affairs behave.
I am reading her posts every free bit I get. I just havent found anything about how she perceived her H or how a WW perceives her H. As a former WW, I really value her insight on sich's like mine.
Just keep going through them. There are like 1120 pages of posts. You will start getting into some good stuff within the first 50-60 pages.
From the post on newcomer LBH to a WW....Ive bolded some of the ones that I thought apply in this situation you just described.
*She is not the girl you married. She no longer feels the same and won't act the same.
*No matter what her values and spiritual beliefs have been in the past, and regardless of the high standard of morals she held, they have temporarily vanished. For how, nobody knows.
*She does not want to be fixed. Nobody can fix her, especially you.
*She is in complete rebellion, and will defy you when you make demands, threats or give ultimatums.
*Her heart has turned cold and selfish. All she thinks about is what makes her feel good at the moment.
*You cannot change her mind, influence, convince, or sway her by talk.
*Her brain has lost all capacity to use logic. Therefore, you cannot reason with her.
*She is addicted to the high she gets from the A. She will do most anything to get her "fix" again.
*She cannot be trusted as long as she is wayward, and until she goes through the complete withdrawal stage from OM/A.
*She will cake eat whenever it suits her......if you allow it.
*She wants the best part of the M and the A. She gets the H for security and OM for her emotional needs.
*She will bait her H, and test him.
*She will give him just enough crumbs to keep him hanging on and attached.
*She keeps the M/H as her plan B, in case A/OM doesn't work out.
*She will be interested in H if he detaches, acts as if he is busy, happy, moving on without her, and won't give her the details when she starts asking.
*Pursuit from her H only pushes her further away.
*She is living in a fantasy world. She wants the dream to continue.
*She will blame her H for every thing wrong in her life. His apology does not erase her resentment. She will totally rewrite their marital history. She holds on to her anger toward him b/c it fuels her negative view of the M and justifies her present actions.
* Her common sense is gone and she only operates from her emotions.
*She is willing to risk everything and throw everything away for her addiction when the A is at its thickest.
*She sees her H as the enemy.
*She has to suffer some type of loss (due to her decisions) in order to shake her from her fantasy fog.
* She is on a roller coaster and will not act the same every single day. Her emotions will be up, down, and all over the place....but never on an even keel.
Could you guys and gals help me understand that perspective or point me toactually a book or thread? Because I really am having a hard time with that then. I cant figure out her perspective of me at all.
As helpful as the posts can be... I would stick with her 37... Pour your energy on that and get to a point you know it front to back .... Then start on the validation thread from wonka
Truth is your WW will feel what she is going to feel, you can read till your eyeballs drop Out of your head but it's more important you channel that energy more into improving yourself and the things within your control rather than it is to waste that trying to 'figure her out' or getting her to 'snap out of it'
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Above is the link to my thread about WW's. I think it would probably be more beneficial to what you are seeking, than maybe trying to sort through my old personal threads.
I did a lot of reading on the board last night, and came to realize my biggest enemy right now is myself and a lack of detachment from my W. I realize I can't truly work on myself when I am hanging on her every action looking for the deeper meaning or trying to find hope that my M will work.
So while I have started dimming the lights with my W. The best thing I can do for myself right now is to detach as best as I can. My goal for the week is to remain dim and to work on detaching further.
As always thanks guys and gals for helping me find y way through this troubling time in my life.
Here's a copy about detaching. It's similar to what Cadet posted.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
_________________________
Thanks for this sandi2.
I was reading the detachment thread, but hadn't seen those yet. I know I am still somewhat attached, but I am working on it. I need to do it for my own sanity and Peace of Mind.
Well last night was a miserable failure.
Apparently OM broke his phone so they couldn't talk like usual. So she was around me more , and I wound up pursuing worse than usual. We ended up attempting to have sex(I say attempt because after a week and a half it was over fast for me
)
I spent the rest of the night apologizing and telling her how embarrassed I was (I was pathetic in hind sight) and to make matters worse I snooped this morning(I know "Bad SORGAN" lol) only to realize that we only probably had sex because they were dirty talking all day making her horny for him(Not sure if that's why or not, but that's how ny mind works)
She got mad at me before she went to bed saying I am controlling her again, and trying to make her feel guilty and make her spend time with me. I am so mad at myself for continually shooting myself in the foot so consistently.
only to realize that we only probably had sex because they were dirty talking all day making her horny for him(Not sure if that's why or not, but that's how ny mind works)
I think you are right.
Okay, something I want you to stop doing. Stop apologizing to the cheater. She used you as a substitute for OM........and you
apologized the rest of the evening b/c you didn't please her? That makes no sense to me. She is cheating on you!!
Sorgan my friend.
Stop! Do not give in to her wanting sex, you think this will have you reconnect, but while she is all about OM, you are just a backup. You deserve better than this. Also, begin setting boundaries to protect yourself emotionally and mentally, you and your kids deserve to be healthy.
I know that everyone here is about not mentioning anything and ignoring when she is blatantly disrespecting you by talking to OM and texting him in front of you. You matter my friend, your feelings matter. Tell her that you will appreciate it if she respected you and not do that in front of you. If she continue I would definitely set some boundaries.
Continue with your journey my friend
How would I go about that? Because she wont stop so I will have to follow through. Do I say I'll leave the room? (Seems like I'm being weak if i do that)Do I ask her to leave? (Probably will be called an [censored]) or is there something else?
In my situation I told my wife in a firm voice that those actions are disrespectful and hurtful, that I ask that she does not engage in those actions in front of me because my feelings matter and I matter. I would start there. If she refuses to, ask yourself what other actions can you take? You can ask her to leave in IMHO, she isn't respecting you as a man or as the father of her children. Of course we focus on ourselves, and I am not saying to be a jerk, but you need to show her that there are certain things that you would not accept from anyone, you have to love yourself as well. Those are my .02 cents brother.
In my situation, she agreed but by that time every time she would pick up her phone, I would assume she was doing it, I became obsessive and full of anxiety, so I had to leave the house for a while to regain my mental and emotional state. I wouldn't want that to happen to you as well.
Unfortunately, I'm already there. I automatically assume she is talking to him anytime she has her phone in and even if she is just on Facebook
Hi Sorgan, I am sorry that you are already there my friend. This is a tough spot to be in. Now you have to ask yourself what's more important to you. We are here to support you, ultimately we would love to see you reconcile with your wife, that's what we all want. Except that this journey is about YOU, you need to focus on yourself, meet your own needs and wants, be responsible for your own happiness. Your W has already made her decision, and she continues to enforce it and do everything in her power to continue down her journey.
What worked for me, may not work for you, but think about what do you ultimately need for Sorgan to be happy and healthy, for your kids to be happy and healthy, and follow that.
We want to be rescuers to our wives, but that's not the role that we should be taking right now, we are no longer their husbands. Are you still paying for her cellphone? Why are you paying for her to be able to talk to OM? Would it be wrong to ask her to leave the home, being that she is blatantly disrespecting you and has no regards for your children? Is that fair to you and them?
These are just my .02 cents, you need to be the one to sit down and make the hard decisions, of course with compassion and love, for her, for you, and for your children.
I wish you nothing but the best my friend.
Here is a copy from a former member explaining boundaries.
Boundaries let people know where they stop and you start. Boundaries let others know how they can treat you, if you can't show someone that you love and respect yourself then it's hard for them to do so. Boundaries are for yourself and are needed in a healthy, loving relationship. You won't get the love you need without communicating and enforcing your boundaries. Boundaries are not controlling, manipulative, or blaming. Setting a boundary is not making a threat - it is communicating clearly what the consequences will be if the other person continues to treat us in an unacceptable manner. It is a consequence of the other persons behavior.
When you make a boundary you are choosing for yourself how you let others treat you. When you make a choice you empower yourself. I have decided this is how I will be treated and I am responsible to myself, I am not a victim because I have a choice in my life.
How to set and enforce boundaries:
Setting:
Quote:
When you _________________________,
I feel _____________________________.
I want ___________________.
Enforcing:
Quote:
If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.)
I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.
If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.
Example:
Quote:
When I ask you what is wrong and you say "Never mind," and then slam cabinet doors and rattle pots and pans and generally seem to be silently raging about something,
I feel angry, frustrated, irritated, hopeless, as if you are unwilling to communicate with me, as if I am supposed to read your mind.
I want you to communicate with me and help me to understand if I have done something that upsets you.
If something is bothering you and you will not tell me what it is, I will confront you about your behavior and share my feelings.
If you continue that behavior, I will confront your behavior, share my feelings, and insist that we go to counseling together.
If you keep repeating this behavior I will start considering all of my options, including leaving this relationship.
Boundaries work for all parties involved. Try them out they help you handle it.
Thoughts, resources, examples .........
Cheers
Coach
Thank you Sandi, This is a great resource and definitely puts things into perspective for me as well.
Sorgan, work with the above. Think things through, we all love our wives but we also have to love ourselves.
Thank you EMMess and Sandi2.
I am having such a hard time detaching and putting my foot down and setting boundaries. I need to work on putting faith in the program. I am frozen by fear most of the time when I am at home. It is easy to be strong through text messages and resolved to my decisions, but when I get home and see my kids and W it is so hard to be what I feel is mean.
I know I shouldn't be paying for her phone or waking her up every morning. Let alone rubbing her back or sex, but when she starts acting like everything is good between us I get lost in the happiness I feel in those moments. That ultimately makes me crash harder when I see her talking to him at night, and I know this.
I am going to write up some boundaries to try to follow through with. I need to be careful in my wording as I don't want to seem like an A-hole. The othher problem I realized last night I face is that half of the talking they do is on their phone game they play. So even if I cut the phone off, I fear she will just pick up the tablet and talk to him on that, and I will have done nothing but anger her and oush her further.
I do see what everyone is saying about me needing to focus on my kids and me. I am fully focused on my kids and would not tolerate her being mean to the kids, however I have a hard time on the me part. I have spent my whole life being afamily doormat for most people I'm around, even when I played games I was a doormat to the people I played with. I guess the best place to start would be to work on my confidence and backbone, so I am no longer a doormat for ANYONE.
I have a long way to go on my journey and Thank all of you for your continued support, even with my shortcomings on following the wonderful advice each of you give.
Sorgan,
Some of the stuff you write saddens me. You are a person, a child of God, a Father, a Son, and a human being, you deserve respect from others but more importantly you need to have respect and love for yourself. Begin your new journey, your work on being a better version of yourself there. Love yourself, Respect yourself, know your worth, work on your self-esteem. Go out and do things you never thought you would have done. You have time, make it about you, and take the kids out from time to time, make sure they see you for the great father you are and want to be.
Forget about your wife for now, that doesn't mean you'll love her any less, but she is not there for you anymore, she does not respect you, she does not care about your feelings at the moment; so why should you care for hers? I don't mean be a jerk with her, just be firm and don't allow her to walk all over you (or anyone else). Cut the phone off if it makes sense, could you use the money? Have her support herself, isn't that what she wanted? Is she waiting for the opportunity to leave the house to live with OM? These are things I would be thinking of.
Don't be afraid of your wife, all you are doing by detaching is ensuring that she is responsible for herself and her decisions. We all have to pay the consequences of our actions, that's part of being human.
I would recommend reading the books "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Co-Dependent No More". They will help with working on yourself and loving yourself again, meeting your needs and wants, because no one else is going to do it for you.
God Bless and Good Luck; We are rooting for you.
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