I could really use some advice and this seems to be the perfect place!
First some background. I have known my wife for about 25 years. We met when I was 10. She was my next door neighbor but lived in a different town. We grew up together. We had our first ‘real’ relationship starting my senior year. She was obsessed with me at that point and I was a bad boyfriend. She taught me my lesson though 3 years later when she dumped me while in college. Now the shoe was the on the other foot. We were on and off for the next few years, always at her call. Ironically, we got back together before she ended up having major abdominal surgery. She was in the hospital for 2 weeks. I took that as a sign that we were meant to be together. But after she recovered, she decided she had enough of me again. Over the next 5 years or so, she had a few real relationships. I did not get involved in anything serious. In fact, she has been my only serious relationship. I basically stopped talking to her so I could move on with my life. Then 6 years ago she called me and now I am here.
We have been officially back together for 6 years, lived together for 4 and married for 2. I am 34 she is 33 and we have no children. I thought our marriage is pretty good. We have similar interests, did everything together, no arguing and have all the same friends. About 2 months ago, I come back to bed to give my wife a kiss after brushing my teeth. She didn’t kiss me and just shook her head. I knew right away what that meant. She said “we have become roommates” and there is “no chemistry”. I agreed that things could be improved but thought we should work on it. Told her I would do anything. She said there was nothing to work on, it should be ‘natural’. She said I was the ‘best husband’ (obviously not) but that she is not happy. A few days later she told me she found an apartment and about a month ago she moved out.
I suspect she is either having an affair or at the very least, having a good time. Some of the outfits she was wearing right before she left drove me crazy. That is not the girl I know. The past month has been hard. I try hard not to contact her. She has not contacted me once on her own during that time. I am keeping strong though by hitting the gym hard and focusing on finishing my MBA.
Am I on the right track here by ignoring her? Of course I desperately want her back. I do not want to file for divorce and want her to bring it up so that it is 100% her decision. She has put through this before but we were not married. It is hard and I knew this was going to happen when we got back together. Ugh.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Those links are interesting reads.
my main questions are:
1. Am I right to just not contact her? It is actually easier for me that way.
2. Do I wait for her to push for divorce? I would definitely rather do that.
Thanks!
Those links are interesting reads.
my main questions are:
1. Am I right to just not contact her? It is actually easier for me that way.
2. Do I wait for her to push for divorce? I would definitely rather do that.
Thanks!
Yes and Yes
I am so happy with those answers. I'll be sure to check into this forum during moments of weakness. They happen.
The only time she has shown any doubt in her actions over the past two months was right before she moved when I had basically not interacted with her in a week. But now that she has moved out, she shows zero interest in me.
Her birthday is coming up and it looks like the general advice is to ignore that. I can do it, but it will be tough.
Yes, ignore her birthday, and any other major holiday. Treat her like a nosy neighbor. Sorry you're here, but you will definitely get some great advice. Read all the homework Cadet gave you, and immediately order copies of the Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedies books, and read them cover to cover. Do not let your W know about the books or this site.
It may be hard to not contact your W, but sounds like you have already went over a week, which is good. You are practicing what we call Last Resort Technique (LRT), which basically means you minimize contact and let her feel what life will be like w/o you in it. Be warned, this is going to be a very long, rough road, and you are at the very beginning. Progress will be measured in months or years, not in days. You need to now place the focus on yourself, and do your best to not worry about your W. That does not mean that you do not love her, or act mean or distant, but you become lovingly detached. Never initiate contact. I would suggest ignoring most calls, and try to avoid seeing her in person. You can reply to text messages occasionally, but be polite and short. Always end the conversation first, and leave her wanting for more. It will probably go this way for a few weeks before you see any interest from her at all, and maybe not even then. The idea is to refocus on your own life, and let her live hers. Your W is going through something and needs her time and space away from you to experience it.
Great advice DWH15. Pinnacl - it sounds like you are on the right track. I believe in this system, I just was unable to control my emotions and follow the rules and the "program". It is hard. Be strong brother.
Thanks dwh... great post.
So she moved out almost exactly a month ago. I have been weak a few times in there but have been pretty good given the situation. I have called her only once because her grandfather passed away. I had to... I just had to and also sent flowers to the funeral home but that was mainly for her family who I adore.
I had a 2 week stretch of me not initiating any contact. It felt good. I even ignored her thank you text message for the flowers. Then I got weak this weekend and texted her a few times before I found this site. They went mostly ignored of course.
She has shown zero interest in me the past month. I do not see how this will change. I think she has a pretty good idea of what life will be like without me and she seems to enjoy it. She is treating me like an ex-boyfriend, not her husband. It drives me crazy. I sit here and think about her constantly and know she is not thinking about me.
I will order those books today. I think I am doing good though. I exercise a lot while focusing on work and school. I have plans to look for a new job in the near future because the growth in my current is stagnate. I also want to be a better person and am thinking what I did to contribute to this situation. I'll get there. Luckily, she has given me a lot of practice in this very situation. The stakes are just larger now.
Hello Pinnacl,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in and I am sorry for the loss of her grandfather.
You are so right to recognize that the stakes are larger now.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I have been thinking a lot today about ways to improve myself as I move forward here while letting my wife hopefully find her way (I hope that is what she is doing!).
Physically, I would like to gain back the 20 lbs I lost in the past 6 years while also achieving personal records with my running (5k's and half marathon's) and playing more hockey. This really is a boost to my confidence.
Career, focus on trying to find a better, more rewarding job and finish my MBA.
Socially, I want to become a bit more outgoing and work on my conversation skills. I have already been working on this and I think it is coming along.
Mentally, I need to stay positive. When people ask me how I am doing... I respond with "I couldn't be better, life is good". Corny, but it actually makes me feel good. I also have always had a problem where I focus on the future, instead of the present. I need to stop this. "Yesterday's gone, tomorrow's not here, what are you doing right now?"
I do have one issue I am not sure how to address and it is so embarrassing. Sexually I am just not good. No confidence before and definitely no confidence now. It is a combo of a few bad experiences and just a general lack of experience (though there should be no lack of experience! ugh). I don't know how to work on it though. It is mental, there are no physical issues. I will not be with anyone besides my wife until our marriage is over. I read but that only goes so far. Any advice??
Thanks dwh... great post.
So she moved out almost exactly a month ago. I have been weak a few times in there but have been pretty good given the situation. I have called her only once because her grandfather passed away. I had to... I just had to and also sent flowers to the funeral home but that was mainly for her family who I adore.
There's nothing inherently
wrong with sending flowers. You'd likely do that for a coworker or decent friend. What would be wrong is attaching expectations to it. If you think she's going to reconsider anything based on that act. Hell, thinking she'll even say "thank you" is too much.
I had a 2 week stretch of me not initiating any contact. It felt good. I even ignored her thank you text message for the flowers. Then I got weak this weekend and texted her a few times before I found this site. They went mostly ignored of course.
Well, now you know right? As I like to say, the stove is still hot.
She has shown zero interest in me the past month. I do not see how this will change. I think she has a pretty good idea of what life will be like without me and she seems to enjoy it. She is treating me like an ex-boyfriend, not her husband. It drives me crazy. I sit here and think about her constantly and know she is not thinking about me.
Who KNOWS what she's thinking about. Could be you, OM, or polka dotted unicorns. That's why the best advice is to focus inwards. Stop worrying about she's thinking about and worry about the things you can control - you, your actions, your thoughts, your reactions, etc.
I will order those books today. I think I am doing good though. I exercise a lot while focusing on work and school. I have plans to look for a new job in the near future because the growth in my current is stagnate. I also want to be a better person and am thinking what I did to contribute to this situation. I'll get there. Luckily, she has given me a lot of practice in this very situation. The stakes are just larger now.
These are good things. Getting out and about is a great start. Also, the PMA you describe below is GREAT. These two things will turn you around faster than anything else, in my opinion.
Keep posting pinnacl!
I do have one issue I am not sure how to address and it is so embarrassing. Sexually I am just not good. No confidence before and definitely no confidence now. It is a combo of a few bad experiences and just a general lack of experience (though there should be no lack of experience! ugh). I don't know how to work on it though. It is mental, there are no physical issues. I will not be with anyone besides my wife until our marriage is over. I read but that only goes so far. Any advice??
You may want to ask the fine ladies here, but I can't imagine your wife walking away because of this.
And I wouldn't find someone to practice with right now...
Hi Pinnacl, I was going to ask you what you thought you brought to the relationship that she had issue with. If she were posting, what would she say are the reasons she left? When you argued and she expressed her needs, what did she ask for? You mentioned sex, so that is a good start. You
Not to be a downer, but looking at your on again off again history, that seemed like a warning flag to me. Once or twice I can see breaking up and getting back together, but all those times? There is a pattern there that you probably need to figure out or you will just repeat it again.
You are doing great and a lot stronger than a lot of us. An entire week with no contact? That's power! Good luck to you.
Thanks Azzork and Flight.
So a couple of things. Of course our previous history was a huge red flag. Any relationship she has been in comes to a sudden halt. I don't know what it is. I was worried about it for years. I probably should have discussed it with her in great detail to make sure this was what she wanted.
The reason she gave for wanting to leave is because she said 'we have become roommates" and 'we lack chemistry". I wanted to try and work on these issues, I think they can be solved. She said, there is nothing you can do about it, it should just be 'natural'. She said I am the best husband and she knows she is going to regret this but 'this is how she feels'. Which actually infuriated me (didn't show it) because I have heard that same line before. Obviously, I am thinking there is someone else.
We actually never argued. I don't know what needs I was not meeting... Maybe affection though I think I was OK there. Conversation, I was poor at, for sure. I definitely need to work on that.
I think we just needed to bond more and the bedroom will be more comfortable. I was just like everything I did was wrong. I am not kissing her right, not kissing her in the right spot, don't put your hand here when you kiss me, etc. So then I am thinking... was what I just did right, is she into it... I don't know. It was stressful for both of us. So it ended up being just sex which isn't good for anyone. I completely agreed it was an issue. I just wanted to work at it... thought it could even be fun.
still going strong today. No urges to contact my wife. This is how it usually goes until, all of the sudden, the urge pops up from no where and it is so strong. But I'll fight it... I have a few tricks.
Big thank you to facebook. The have a cool new feature where it shows you past posts you have made or been tagged in. I guess I gave my wife flowers a year ago today and she put it on there. Thanks for the reminder FB and no I do not want to 'share' this.
Pinn - I really dont think that the only reason that she is leaving is because of your skills (or, I guess, lack thereof) in bed.
It sounds like she is looking for (or already has) that drug high of a new relationship. You know those butterfly feelings where life is rainbows and cotton candy. But that doesnt last. That wears off. Thats NOT "chemistry" (at least not in my opinion) and thats certainly not how marriages work. There is no "solving" your relationship to bring that back.
As for "affection", Im sure you are referring to the physical touch aspect. Have you read 5 Love Languages? There is more than one way to give or receive affection. Id highly recommend this book as an add-on to DR/DB.
Thanks Azzork.
I have not read that (I will, I need to use this to learn but I am reading a lot of material at the moment haha), but I am not only talking about physical touching. I am talking about like random text messages saying "I love you" throughout the day, randomly giving her flowers or simply kissing her before I left for work (I left while she was still sleeping but she would always wake up slightly as I left). But I am sure I could have done more. Thinking back though, she did not seem to be very affectionate toward me. Maybe I needed more of that.
I think that is exactly what she is looking for or has found. I know we cannot get that aspect back but think there are things we could do to bring us emotionally closer and we could still have a great marriage. I don't know how she could come to that realization though.... everything seemed to happen so fast.... crazy
I guess I know that there is no "solving" our relationship to bring that feeling back. What I need to figure out though is if and how I dropped the ball here to make sure it does not happen again. I want to have a great family life someday and really need to figure this out. It will be hard to do without her input into exactly what the real issues were. hmph.
I have not read that (I will, I need to use this to learn but I am reading a lot of material at the moment haha), but I am not only talking about physical touching. I am talking about like random text messages saying "I love you" throughout the day, randomly giving her flowers or simply kissing her before I left for work (I left while she was still sleeping but she would always wake up slightly as I left). But I am sure I could have done more. Thinking back though, she did not seem to be very affectionate toward me. Maybe I needed more of that.
The book is very enlightening. Yes, what you listed are ways of showing love. But there are others. or example, one of my big ones is "Acts of Service". So I think "oh, I just emptied the dishwasher. Thats me showing you that I love you." But if my wife doesnt also have that language, then she just thinks "yay. clean dishes." At the same time, if she isnt using the same language, then I will feel unloved or unappreciated.
I think that is exactly what she is looking for or has found. I know we cannot get that aspect back but think there are things we could do to bring us emotionally closer and we could still have a great marriage. I don't know how she could come to that realization though.... everything seemed to happen so fast.... crazy
Again, what you are describing seems to be that drug rush of a new relationship. No. You cant get that back. Works the same as with drugs right. The first few times you get that incredible high, but then your body adjusts and it just isnt quite the same any more. It sounds like she is chasing that first high. You cant give that to her anymore....you just cant. Dont beat yourself up over it.
As to things happening fast, I posted this to Mutatio earlier today. It's really like watching a lake freeze from the bottom up. On the surface, you dont notice anything happening. But once that top part freezes you discover the entire [censored] thing is a giant block of ice. Of course it looks sudden to you....you only JUST saw the top layer freeze! But to the lake, its been freezing for months/years.
Azzork we are going to be friends. I'll have to read your story.
When I say fast I guess I was specifically describing how fast she moved out without wanting to give anything a try. I know everything else had been building for some time though I don't think it had been building for very long. I noticed a very slight change in her behavior about a month before the BD. It was just like BD, ring off immediately, found a place in a few days and moved out 2 weeks later without a second look back.
When I say fast I guess I was specifically describing how fast she moved out without wanting to give anything a try. I know everything else had been building for some time though I don't think it had been building for very long. I noticed a very slight change in her behavior about a month before the BD. It was just like BD, ring off immediately, found a place in a few days and moved out 2 weeks later without a second look back.
I think youre missing my point. It's only fast to you, because you didnt see it building all of these years. In her mind, she had ALREADY been trying for years. Not saying it's right or wrong....just what it is.
Yea I understand what you are saying. I am sure it had been building inside of her for some time. I guess it really doesn't matter, the situation is what it is.
I am having trouble putting into perspective the time frame of this. It has been just about 2 months since the bomb, 1 month since she moved out. Is this a long time, short time, or what? I am actually nervous to see any contact from her... email, text or call because I think that all she is going want to discuss is proceeding with getting divorced.
What do you mean by timeframe? As in the time between DB and separation? Or the time since then? Honestly, there is no standard for any of it. It is what it is and it may be different for each case. One thing that is for sure is that nothing will happen quickly. This is a freight train full of inertia that isn't going to be "snapped". She isn't going to just "wake up". So, you have the time now. Use it!
Basically what I am wondering is from the time she left until now... Over a month... Is that a long or short amount of time to recieve basically no contact? It's frustrating.
Tough time this morning... Not sure why. Seems like I get worse when I am at work and am perfectly fine when I am in the house we shared for four years.
Basically what I am wondering is from the time she left until now... Over a month... Is that a long or short amount of time to receive basically no contact? It's frustrating.
Unfortunately, theres not a good answer. In general, a month is a very short time around here. Ive been separated from my W for ~5 months now. I would say theres been no contact unless theres something about kids or finances.
But it gives me the time and space I need to become Azzork2.0.
ugh.. are you living separately as well?
I like becoming pinn2.0... it feels good. But I am hoping that (pinn+pinnete)2.0 has a chance.
ugh.. are you living separately as well?
I like becoming pinn2.0... it feels good. But I am hoping that (pinn+pinnete)2.0 has a chance.
Been living separately for several months. Divorce was filed several weeks back. Essentially no contact except for finances or kids.
But that doesnt mean that I think that we have dont have a chance to R in the future.
man.... best of luck.
Today is the big 2 month mark since the BD... actually right about this time. It is crazy to think that 10 seconds before that happened, I had no idea what I was in for.
Took the day off from work today. We had planned a 2 week vacation in July that scrapped so I have plenty of time. I feel the worst at work for some odd reason anyway. I hurt my shoulder so I haven't been able to gym this week but I still have been running and working my core. I think I'll go for a nice run later and take care of the house a bit.
Besides that I am back on track after my weakness last weekend. Today is day 5 with no contact and I have no urge to do anything. If things to officially end, I will have to cut ties with her completely. She would be too much of a risk to any future relationship (shes destroyed em in the past). That makes me sad because I have known her since I was 10 and there are so so many memories there and though we are relatively young.
If things to officially end, I will have to cut ties with her completely. She would be too much of a risk to any future relationship (shes destroyed em in the past). That makes me sad because I have known her since I was 10 and there are so so many memories there and though we are relatively young.
Here's my feeling: I cant be her friend when I want to be her husband. When I dont want to be her husband anymore, Id be willing to consider being her friend again.
I wouldnt worry about things a year or two or five or ten in the future right now. Just worry about getting through today, pinn!
Here's my feeling: I cant be her friend when I want to be her husband. When I dont want to be her husband anymore, Id be willing to consider being her friend again.
I wouldnt worry about things a year or two or five or ten in the future right now. Just worry about getting through today, pinn!
Az nailed it. I think it's nearly impossible to be friends when you truly still have interest in being the H. Sure, you can fake it in front of her, but it's going to be tough on you. I'm of the same mind that right now I only want to be H with my WW. When I reach a point where I'm done with that and really moved on, then I would definitely want to pursuit a friendship. I also agree about not thinking too much into the future. Anything can happen a year, 3 years, 5 years out. Look at CaliGuy's sitch on this board. He was separated for 3 years, totally detached and even dating when his WW decided she wanted to R. I've heard of people in my local church who got together again 10 years after being D. You just never know, and it's pointless to worry about it. We're in day by day mode - just do your best to get through today.
Az nailed it. I think it's nearly impossible to be friends when you truly still have interest in being the H. Sure, you can fake it in front of her, but it's going to be tough on you. I'm of the same mind that right now I only want to be H with my WW. When I reach a point where I'm done with that and really moved on, then I would definitely want to pursuit a friendship. I also agree about not thinking too much into the future. Anything can happen a year, 3 years, 5 years out. Look at CaliGuy's sitch on this board. He was separated for 3 years, totally detached and even dating when his WW decided she wanted to R. I've heard of people in my local church who got together again 10 years after being D. You just never know, and it's pointless to worry about it. We're in day by day mode - just do your best to get through today.
Well .... lets at the least get the facts straight.
I was separated almost 2 years ... not 3. And I would never say I 'completely' detached, in fact through out my sitch I have confessed detaching was the one thing I really had a tough time with ... it does get easier as time rolls on ... but in hindsight I could have done much better in this area. My W was not a WW, she was MLC ... as I have mentioned labels are just labels ... often I surmise they are more for the LBS than anything, the approach is the same, the resolve and the willingness to DB and for how long is solely up to the individual.
My feelings on the 'friend' aspect. As I told my W, I treasure the few friends I have, in fact losing one is a very painful experience. That being said I had no room for a 'friend' who would lie/cheat and steal from me, in my personal dictionary that person was no longer a friend.
Well .... lets at the least get the facts straight.
I was separated almost 2 years ... not 3. And I would never say I 'completely' detached, in fact through out my sitch I have confessed detaching was the one thing I really had a tough time with ... it does get easier as time rolls on ... but in hindsight I could have done much better in this area. My W was not a WW, she was MLC ... as I have mentioned labels are just labels ... often I surmise they are more for the LBS than anything, the approach is the same, the resolve and the willingness to DB and for how long is solely up to the individual.
My feelings on the 'friend' aspect. As I told my W, I treasure the few friends I have, in fact losing one is a very painful experience. That being said I had no room for a 'friend' who would lie/cheat and steal from me, in my personal dictionary that person was no longer a friend.
Sorry about that Cal. I was winging it and didn't have time to go back and look up specifics on your sitch; just going by what I remembered reading. Thanks for clarifying. But my main point remains the same. Anything can happen in the future, whether it be tomorrow, next week, next year, we never know.
Regarding being friends, you make a good point. In my case, the lies and cheating are a definite with my WW. As far as stealing, I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised she has taken things out of the house w/o asking or telling me. It's a gray area, since she technically owns half. But she is certainly willing and in fact feels somewhat entitled to as much financial assistance as she can get out of me. I guess that's stealing in a way. And no, I would not put up with any of that behavior from a so-called friend either, so makes me really question whether WW should get off the hook.
For now, I wouldn't say I'm acting like a friend, but more that I'm being friendly. I hope to be her H again, but if that doesn't work out, then I would hope to someday be "friends"; that would of course depend on whether WW comes to her senses enough to be a true friend and not look at me as someone she can use to her advantage. Who knows - these situations are all so complex that anything is possible.
Sorry about that Cal. I was winging it and didn't have time to go back and look up specifics on your sitch; just going by what I remembered reading. Thanks for clarifying. But my main point remains the same. Anything can happen in the future, whether it be tomorrow, next week, next year, we never know.
Regarding being friends, you make a good point. In my case, the lies and cheating are a definite with my WW. As far as stealing, I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised she has taken things out of the house w/o asking or telling me. It's a gray area, since she technically owns half. But she is certainly willing and in fact feels somewhat entitled to as much financial assistance as she can get out of me. I guess that's stealing in a way. And no, I would not put up with any of that behavior from a so-called friend either, so makes me really question whether WW should get off the hook.
For now, I wouldn't say I'm acting like a friend, but more that I'm being friendly. I hope to be her H again, but if that doesn't work out, then I would hope to someday be "friends"; that would of course depend on whether WW comes to her senses enough to be a true friend and not look at me as someone she can use to her advantage. Who knows - these situations are all so complex that anything is possible.
Oh no worries ... I just did not want rumors to start and in a week someone posts I went 10 years ... ya know how stories can grow.
The Highlighted part ... (Sorry to hijack pinn but maybe some nuggets you can dip in ranch here) What does "come to her senses" mean to you .... I point it out because that line of thought is extremely controlling, like " Once she jumps through this hoop, dumps the OM, does this or that .. then and only then will I allow her into my circle"
Truth is ... you have to get to a point where you are comfortable with you, your W can do as she wants, when she wants and with who .... the vibe I get from your sitch is you feel taken advantage of, feel you are financing her way of life which you do not approve of (I do not blame you here .. your feelings are understandable) ... I would push you here .. this is only going to make you
Bitter, not
Better if you catch my drift.... its not going to land you where you want to be big picture wise.
For me ... after doing some self work, I realized my time was very valuable, and my W at that time was not 'friend' worthy ... she .. and many WAW/WW/MLCrs want the LBH as the back up, option #2, the 'friend' ... its a safety net/ security blanket ... one I was not interested in EVER supplying once I realized she had cake all over her new dress. This does give them a whiff of the Reality-Frapichino, as I have told her many times ... she can do as she likes, have whomever she would like close to her, .... but ya know what .. so can I and I chose to not have people who try to hurt me. Amazing how hurt they are by this even thought they have fired us.
no worries... I find all that talk very interesting. I guess this is quite the premature discussion in my case, but it will not be possible for me to be friends with her. It is too risky. She can destroy my relationships in a second (she's done it before, kind of bragged about it actually). I'll have to cut her off completely which is terrible because we grew up together... ugh.
Anyway, yesterday went really well. Hardly thought about her which is hard to believe. Only negative was she wiggled her way into my dreams last night. Now it's time for an early morning gym session.
welp... it's been 14 days and I have not contacted my wife in any way. Nor have I even had the urge. After reading the posts the last few days I guess I consider myself somewhat lucky. Having been through this with her before (not married then of course) makes things easier. I have learned a lot of the lessons described on this board in the past. I understand completely what everyone is going through.
I end up getting a little angry at how I am being treated like an ex-boyfriend rather than a husband. That is what bothers me. I desperately want this to work out, but even if she came back, I am not sure I can go through this again. There is only so many times someone can tell you 'this is how I feel'. I actually started researching divorce proceedings last night. She has not forced the issue as of yet though. The only thing we briefly discussed was not needing lawyers. I will still wait for her to bring it up.
I cannot believe how fast the last 2.5 months have gone by. It is a blur. I am doing good focusing on myself. Setting goals and knocking em down ;-). Have a half marathon next month that I am going smoke, destroying it at the gym and I am going to ace my final two classes. I am working on my social skills at the same time. Making strong eye contact and trying to be a bit more out going without being over the top. My confidence has increased unbelievably during all of this. I do need to hang out with my friends more though.... nights are tough sometimes and I end up going to bed early. The good news is that I have not had to watch reality TV in a long time and I can buy ice cream with chunky stuff in it!
I want her to call, text or email me... not so we can talk... but so I can ignore it. How messed up is that? Her birthday is coming up quick... and I just have to ignore it. It is like she is two different people... the person she is when she is with me and the person she is when she is not. I have met both several times in the past 16 years and I do not like the latter. I know that my wife is not present right now so I do not miss her. Any attempts at communication are pointless and will certainly make me feel worse. I miss her family though especially my nieces.
Full LRT in effect for the foreseeable future. I'll get there and I am going to better because of all this.
She said “we have become roommates” and there is “no chemistry”. I agreed that things could be improved but thought we should work on it. Told her I would do anything. She said there was nothing to work on, it should be ‘natural’. She said I was the ‘best husband’ (obviously not) but that she is not happy. A few days later she told me she found an apartment and about a month ago she moved out.
feels no chemistry. How about you?
Whenever I read about a woman believing it should all come naturally, and no work done......it tells me she has her head in a fantasy. She wants to be swept completely off her feet, and
dominated by such extreme sexual attraction that her volition has no say in the matter. That is basically how the romance novels are written. A lot of women buy into it and then think of what they are missing out in their lives. If those ideas are not harnessed, they can lead her to make bad decisions.
I don't think it is b/c of your lack of sexual experence with different partners. I think the problem is mostly her. You can't make her have feelings. That's up to her.
I suspect she is either having an affair or at the very least, having a good time. Some of the outfits she was wearing right before she left drove me crazy. That is not the girl I know.
Maybe, or she may be shopping around. Has she ever had an A while you were together?
I think the fact that she said you were the "best husband" confuses or bothers you, since it's in your signature line. I believe it was code for saying you are a nice guy, a good person, and it's not you but her. You know, kind of like whenever a woman breaks up with a guy and tells him she loves him like a brother.
I end up getting a little angry at how I am being treated like an ex-boyfriend rather than a husband. That is what bothers me. I desperately want this to work out, but even if she came back, I am not sure I can go through this again. There is only so many times someone can tell you 'this is how I feel'. I actually started researching divorce proceedings last night. She has not forced the issue as of yet though. The only thing we briefly discussed was not needing lawyers. I will still wait for her to bring it up.
Of course she's not treating you like a husband! She scratched you off her list. If she left you, and considering her reasons, how were you expecting her to treat you? What would she do differently than from an ex-boyfriend?
I'll get straight to the point. This is not the first time, right? That means the risk of her doing it again is high. You say you want it to work out. However, I think you are really hoping that working out means she will stop putting you through this stuff. But she doesn't want to "work" on things with you. She wants her sexual fantasies filled. Life may have to teach her, and it may take a real long time to make her see that a couple has to work to keep a good relationship.
My advice is to leave her alone and make a life for yourself. Drop the emotional rope and move forward. It will probably take a long time before she actually misses you. The longer she goes without seeing you or contact of any type, the better the chances that she would feel some attraction when she does see you. I am talking months and months, maybe a couple of years or more.
Thanks Sandi... I missed your response earlier. I agree with everything you say there. I guess I was expecting a little more respect compared to just an ex-boyfriend?? Actually I am not really sure. In my head, we are married, there should be an effort to save things. That is a very good question now that you raise it though, why would it be any different, I guess it would not.
"best husband' does bother me because it is obviously not true and yet she says it over and over. I agree with your advice and that is what I am doing. I have been through it before so I have lots of practice... made some very painful mistakes in the past. The only time she does come back is when I completely go silent.
I do not *think* she has has an affair before but am not 100% sure of course. We were together all the time minus work.
I really appreciate your advice in my situation... I think you have some valuable insight that I could use.
My wife texted me on her own for the first time yesterday in 7 weeks. It was nothing special, she was telling me something about the electric bill password she changed (I think she thinks it messes up my account if she changes her password, no clue). Anyway, this the first uninitiated contact since she left.
Obviously, it is nothing to get excited about. What I did get excited about was:
1. When I saw her number on my phone (I deleted her contact info to keep me from texting her randomly awhile ago), I did not get that quick heart beat. I stayed status quo mentally. I think most people on here might understand how big that is.
2. I read the text, quickly processed the info, then promptly deleted the text. I decided there was no need for a response here. I did not want to throw away almost 3 weeks of no contact just to say 'thanks'.
I feel good about how I felt during this. It is such a little, stupid thing I know, but this is exactly the type of thing that has set me back in the past.
Her b-day is next week and I think I can be strong through that.
1. When I saw her number on my phone (I deleted her contact info to keep me from texting her randomly awhile ago), I did not get that quick heart beat. I stayed status quo mentally. I think most people on here might understand how big that is.
2. I read the text, quickly processed the info, then promptly deleted the text. I decided there was no need for a response here. I did not want to throw away almost 3 weeks of no contact just to say 'thanks'.
I feel good about how I felt during this. It is such a little, stupid thing I know, but this is exactly the type of thing that has set me back in the past.
You are doing great!
I guess I was expecting a little more respect compared to just an ex-boyfriend?? Actually I am not really sure. In my head, we are married, there should be an effort to save things. That is a very good question now that you raise it though, why would it be any different, I guess it would not.
Unfortunately, it's not about what's in your head, but what's in hers.
A WW has no respect for her LBH. In fact, I'd say ex-boyfriends probably have more. I'm sure that is difficult for you to grasp about your own W.
I believe your best bet is to go completely dark. That means she hears nothing, reads nothing, and sees nothing from you. If she reaches the place of wanting to go back to you.....that is when you have the opportunity to give her the conditions (MC, no contact with other men, transparency, accountability, etc.) If she is not willing to cooperate, then she's not ready to return to the M.
Unfortunately, it's not about what's in your head, but what's in hers.
A WW has no respect for her LBH. In fact, I'd say ex-boyfriends probably have more. I'm sure that is difficult for you to grasp about your own W.
Ouch... there's the rub. You are so right but it makes me so angry! The fact we grew up together makes this that much harder.
Day 21 today of nothing from me to her though and I feel much better when I have no contact (I mean absolutely nothing). I even locked myself out of my house this week and I think she still has a key but dealt with it in other ways.
I can't help but think of her birthday which is Tuesday. I always did real nice things for her on this day. I am not going to contact her on it though. Luckily, I'll have work then class so my mind will be busy. Need to get past that day and then there won't be a difficult time until the holidays.
I like how someone describes it has being fired. That is how it feels. I was definitely fired. The marriage, as it existed is over, no doubt. We can never go back to that situation. If it works out, it will be a completely different situation. One good thing is that every time she does this, I do learn more about myself, areas I need to improve upon. I think confidence is what I need now.... just a little but more, but not too much. I am going to get there.
As always, thanks for the reply Sandi. I think you have a lot of insight into my particular situation from her perspective.
It's my wife's birthday today, haven't contacted her and I won't. I have been thinking about her a lot today though. Makes me sad. I feel really badly about not wishing her a happy birthday. I don't know why, I have no idea if she cares or not. Just does not feel right. But today is almost over and I think the next real hard day will not be until Christmas. ah well.... time to get ready for my class.
You may have been "conditioned" to feel guilty if you didn't do something nice for her on her birthday. I'm guessing she's had a lot of influence over you. She's mainly been the only girl, and has destroyed other R's, and you felt you had to do something big on her birthdays.
I think, b/c you've made reference to it several times, that growing up together effects you a lot. In a way, what you are experiencing may feel similar to losing a sibling or a lifelong friend. I admire your strength and determination to stick to your plan.
Coming here to express your feelings is the right thing to do. It's good to stay busy, like you are doing.
Great job so far. You can do this......and it should give you more self-confidence knowing just how much strength it has taken. You are growing!
What are you doing to GAL?
Thanks Sandi. I really feel like a bad person tonight. I can't even really explain it. It just feels like I did something wrong by not even acknowledging her b-day (mine was of course destroyed by the BD but I still feel bad). Such a little thing. Interesting how this makes me feel though. I know doing nice things for her made me happy so maybe that's it. I don't know.
Growing up together does effect me a lot. There are so many memories there, its crazy. It is weird to think of her as no longer being part of my life. But I had reached that point in the past so I can do it again.
I think I am GAL'ing OK. Finishing my MBA takes a lot of time. I gym almost every day with very specific goals in mind and train for my half marathon in mid October. I think my social skills are improving dramatically. That is just my impression, not sure if that is actually true or not. But I think the confidence is getting better for sure. I do need to try get together with my friends more though.
Man, did yesterday suck. I felt like such a dirt bag. Glad it is over though with no set backs. Now I can refocus on the goal at hand... becoming a better man
Stop beating up on yourself. If you had bought her a gift, or done anything, it would have set you back to the starting line. Like I said, it sounds as if you have been taught or conditioned to believe you had to do something big for her. I promise you that she noticed, and it did a lot more than if you had sent her something. You would have been lucky if you'd even received a thank you. But you would not have made any brownie points with her.
Remember, this all feels like you are doing the opposite. That's b/c a WW is not going to respond to what your feelings are saying to do.
And for goodness sake, don't break down today and call her out of your guilt. In fact, don't have guilt over it. You are the only one who can choose to feel guilty or not.
Thanks Sandi... I am not going to break down... trust me on that. I have no desire to. I have learned my lesson there way to many times in the past.
Very good point on me choosing to feel guilty. I had never thought about it like that but it is true.
Anyway.... yesterday's gone, tomorrow's not here... what am I doing right?... no more feeling guilty. I am refocused.
Personally, I think you're doing better than the average newcomer.
I might be a new comer here but learned a lot of lessons the hard way over the years...and there are no kids which means I can really have no contact. No contact makes things so much easier, always has. when I really stop and think about it... I am actually not sure if I could ever be with her again... The bd can happen at anytime and it would always be on my mind but I am trying not to focus on anything to do with our relationship right now. Outa sight outa mind.
Just b/c you have no contact with her, doesn't mean you need to stop contacting us. How about an update of how you're doing?
welp.. wife moved out just about 2 months ago now. I have not exchanged a phone call, email or text with her in a month. Definitely helps my mental state but am still sad about the situation. I think I was always looking too much into the future and not enjoying the here and now. Actually, that future disappearing in a second is probably what bothers me most. Lots of learning though and I will not repeat the same mistakes. My next R either with the wife or someone else will be good. I also realized that my wife was not affectionate enough to me. I really felt good when she was. It is something I needed more of. Since this has happened a few times, I was insecure and that would have reassured me making more comfortable in the relationship which would have made things better. But I never talked to her about it. It is tough walking around day after day knowing that it could end anytime. But there is another lesson learned... don't do that.
She took the 'married' tag down on FB. Stung a little but is both sad and good. Obviously, I had been waiting for it and it made me sad. But as soon as she did that, I was able to block her. That may seem childish but it is very helpful (been here before). We have too many mutual friends and she is popping up all over the place on that thing. Once I see her pop up, I would be tempted to look at her page, and that could be bad news. Also, she was showing up on the chat which also could lead to a moment of weakness. What do you all think of that... good move, bad move?
I do have a new goal. I think everyday about how many days it has been since I last contacted her. I can't detach if I am doing that. So starting today, no more keeping track.
In terms of the big D, I am not even thinking about it. If she brings it up, she brings it up. If not, I will wait until the new year and re-evaluate.
We'll get there.
wow... sandi.... you posted that as I was typing an update!
You sound good. Stay strong and keep a good attitude.
Do think the blocking is the right thing to do? I should just continue on with the no contact? I will admit it is hard to just sit here in limbo when the prospects of getting back together seem so bleak. I do not want to rush it...but man.
If she does contact me, I will run it by the board before I respond.
What kind of limbo are you in? You're done until she says she is ready to come back into an R with you.
Are you asking for permission to start dating? Do you believe you are ready for that?
Good question Az....
Well... I am done until she comes back into a R with me, or I am just done. Until then, I am in a weird limbo state, I think anyway. Why does she get to decide? She has decided when we have started and stopped for the last 16 years. I guess I'll just stick to the plan and let it go until the new year and re-evaluate.
No, no I do not think I am ready for dating. That will be a heck of an experience if and when it happens. The poor girl...
Well... I am done until she comes back into a R with me, or I am just done.
In your mind, what is the difference?
hmmm... I think I see what you are throwing down here... I guess there should not be a difference, either way my mind set should be the same. Yea, I tend to agree with that.
BUT...what I am talking about is the end game I guess. There is going to be a resolution one way or the other eventually here. The first case has the ball in her court, the second case the ball is in my court.
I guess I am just not sure if this ever can work out. I cannot be in a relationship when I am always walking around wondering if this will be the day it ends... again. I think that feeling contributed to where I am at now.
Maybe I am just over thinking things and moving a little fast. I don't know. I'll just keep on keeping on and re-evaluate a few months down the road.
BUT...what I am talking about is the end game I guess. There is going to be a resolution one way or the other eventually here. The first case has the ball in her court, the second case the ball is in my court.
If you are at the end game, sure. But if you aren't, there is no ball. Well, there is, I guess, but you don't need to worry about it because you're doing your kickass pinn stuff. Once you are at the endgame, you take the ball and go home.
I like that analogy... Right on Az as usual.
By the way... Great job with the sept goals and I hope Oct goes even better.
Just about at the 3 month mark since the BD. What a fast three months! The first two months were a complete blur but luckily the last month has returned to almost a normal pace. I am a little bit nervous for the winter months. Days are shorter, so it will be a little harder to keep myself busy.
Still have had no contact with my wife. I think that is good, I definitely feel better that way. I do not even get an urge to contact her. But I know something could trigger me at any moment. I do not think about what she is doing her or who she is with. I do occasionally think about what she is thinking. Pointless I know, but I do wonder. Does she feel any regret? Is she missing anything from her previous life? I'll never know, but I wonder.
The biggest disappointment for me is the family dream being shattered. But this is probably for the better that it happened now. Having children might have delayed this a bit, but it would have happened eventually and it would have been a lot harder. I feel like I am getting old and I do really want a family more than anything else. I'll get there.
Sandi, I am curious about a comment you made in Ghost's thread. You said that the WW has 3 characteristics, disrespect, resentment (I think?) and rebellion. For disrespect, you asked if his wife rolled her eyes or belittled him. My wife constantly rolled her eyes and would call me a dou*** if there was a little argument. I hated that, I had asked her constantly not to do that, told her it was disrespectful but she still did. I never called her names. But I do not feel like I let her walk all over me either. So how do I prevent that in the future, either with my wife or someone else? There is a certain balance that you need to meet right? If I go too far the other way, then that is a problem as well. Do you know what I mean? I need to learn to prevent this from happening again.
ehhh.... feeling down tonight. Not sure what the deal is. Guess the three months since the BD is doing it, not sure. Or I got a notice that my wife directed mail addressed to her maiden name to be forwarded to her. That shouldn't bother me but it did make me a bit sad. Funny the little things that can get you down.
I still don't feel the need to contact her but I do wonder what she is thinking. Haven't had any communication with her in several weeks now. Ugh... i'll through it, tomorrow is a new day!
I am in the mode for a lil ranting and raving today. September is gone and I made it the whole month without any contact with the wife (including her birthday!). I know the NC makes me feel better and that is all that matters. This is so such a weird place though! Hard to look back and imagine where I am at now. Luckily, I have had no urges, probably because of my past experiences, I know the deal.
I feel like when she finally does contact me, it will only be about proceeding with divorce. I know that she divorced me the day of the big D and it is not something I should be afraid of, but I am not looking forward to that conversation.
I wonder what she is thinking from time to time even though I know it doesn't matter. Can't help it, human nature. I don't obsess over it though. I wonder if she is miserable, having the time of her life or something in between. I have absolutely no idea. I don't even know where she lives, I know it's not around here. That is weird too... her family are all within a mile of our house, all her friends are here. It really is like she is a whole new person.
Like other threads I have been reading, the question of dating keeps coming to the front of my mind. She is really the only one I have ever dated, she has dated multiple guys. I had chances, I was just infatuated with her. Now I see chances and I am kind of thinking that I want to take that chance. It would be nice to have someone be affectionate back to me. I don't know what she was more affectionate, I just know that I really liked it when she was. I am concerned about hurting someone else which will keep this at bay for a bit. Anyway, gotta keep on keeping on.
Hi pinn
I have just been reading your thread you have come a long way my friend
No contact in several months you have such amazing strength
I have four children the youngest is just two
I thought my W was a waw until sandi pointed out a few things now I would see her very much as ww
I have to get stronger as I know things are going to get a lot tougher
Take care my friend
Ghost
Hello Pinn,
I just read through your thread and our sitch is very similar. I've known my wife 20 years, we were friends before we became a couple. What your W said to you is so similar to what my WW said to me. She took her ring off and changed her FB status to single and back to her maiden name and boom, in her mind the marriage was over that easy. I am still in state of shock.
Even though it [censored], I'm glad I can relate to some people with similar sitch, it makes me feel like I'm not going at it alone.
Hi Rocky,
I'll have to check your posts but our situations do seem real similar... kind of crazy. I am actually kinda glad because even though everyone on this site is in the same situation, I still had trouble relating to some of the situations. In some ways, I wish that we never got together. Now I am going to lose her as a wife and friend. I'll never be able to be just friends with her.
I was actually getting a little angry today. I wish she had shown more affection for me. It is something that I never realized how bad I needed. I remember a few years when she went to Puerto Rico for a girls trip. She would randomly call and text me. When I talked to her, I really felt like she actually missed me. That was after like 3 days. Fast forward to now and I have had no contact for like 40 days, haven't seen her in over 2 months, and nothing. It's frustrating.
So I was thinking about something last night. Once my wife told me she was moving out, we pretty much avoided each for two weeks. I didn't answer her calls and stayed away when I knew she was home. In the 2 or 3 days before she left, we did have some convo's. One thing I cannot understand, maybe someone can help me out (couch sandi cough). (keep in mind this was all before I found this site)
For those 2 days or so, her attitude had changed a bit. It was the only time during this whole thing where she seemed unsure. She kept saying that she wish I had talked to her 3 weeks ago about her not moving (which is complete BS by the way because I did and her response was that this is final and for me to respect her decision). But anyway, she kept saying how 'confused' she is. She said it multiple times. My response was that I didn't realize she actually wanted to talk about us and that I had thought her mind was 100% made up. Her response to that was.... my mind is 100% made up, I love you, but this is not what I want. My response was... OK (but then I was the one confused!)
So obviously I misinterpreted what she was 'confused' about. Any thoughts about that? What was she confused about? That has been the only time in over 3 months that she showed any wavering.
I doubt I can explain it very well. Most men readily agree that the female is a complex creature, and men cannot completely figure them out. So, whenever a woman is wayward and walking away from a M, you can multiply her complexity. She can't even figure out herself.......so what chance does the H stand? She truely is as unpredicable as a tornado.
I was just reading a post from a LBH who was really beginning to get his act together. Then he sees his WW smile, look pretty, talk nice to him........and everything in him is being drawn to her. I'm sure you can relate.
With a WW, she's already living out of her emotions, which are very unstable. So she goes without seeing her H or having contact with him for several weeks. When they finally do make contact, and if it is handled in a nice manner.......it could confuse her emotions......especially if her emotions were previously "set up". In other words, if something else earlier in the day had her missing what she got from you. If her emotions had already taken a hit from another direction earlier in the day, then they set her up. Notice how she quickly she changed again. Yet, it didn't seem to match the other she was saying, right? That's why you can't listen to it, or figure it out. It's only her messed up emotions. Her thoughts can change just that quickly. Before she finished the discussion, they changed again. Who knows what may have triggered her to say she wished you had told her three weeks ago.
There are so many WW's who return home during a period that her emotionstrace taken a hit from her OM. She wants to run back to her H, who will soothe her feelings. However, we see where in just a day or so she is right back to contacting OM. That's just one small example.
You did not make a mistake by not talking to her three weeks ago. Isn't it something how a WW can twist it to make the H always think he's to blame.......no matter what it may be?
It is crazy... when she was saying that she wished I had talked to her 3 weeks ago... I was like what planet am I living on. I mean I distinctly remember the conversations because they were not pleasant for me. We def talked about it.
Thanks for the perspective Sandi, I do appreciate it. My wife fits all the WW criteria that you post about. I think you are right, I'll never be able to get in her head and see things exactly from her perspective so no sense trying. I was just having trouble understanding what that was all about. She said she was confused, i said I didn't realize you were confused, then it was I am not confused... all in the course of maybe 5 minutes. And then that was it, the doubt was gone and has never returned.
And just to be clear, since it is a little confusing, that all happened a few months ago before she moved out. Still have not had contact with her in several weeks now.
And just to be clear, since it is a little confusing, that all happened a few months ago before she moved out. Still have not had contact with her in several weeks now.
Okay then, that makes even more sense. To me, that is.
Thanks for the clarification.
I saw a post on another thread mentioning that you should really dig deep and look at what happened in your marriage. How did I contribute to the failure, how did she? I really do want to understand what happened because I do want to be the perfect husband in the future either with my wife or someone else.
So I came up with many thoughts about how I contributed and many thoughts about how she contributed, how could this have been avoided given the hindsight I now have? I then started focusing on what she said the BD day. Her reasons were ‘lack of chemistry’, ‘feel like roommates and, basically, trouble in the bedroom. But these were just words so I wanted to go back and really understand what had happened. I started reliving parts of our relationship in my mind (probably with a different viewpoint now). Basically, what I think now is that she was never actually in love with me. I believe that, I really do. We have a natural tendency to be together because of our history, interests and comfort-ability. But I do not think she was in love with me.
This made me incredibly sad. First, I felt like the past 6 years has been a complete sham and the 16 year on/off cycle was just a waste of time, I was just too blind to see it, everyone else saw it. Secondly, after thinking about this, I do not see any way that we will be together again. I know my marriage is over but I do hold out hope for a new, fantastic marriage with my wife. I thought the bones and potential were there to have something special. Now, I doubt it.
I wish we weren’t married so this could be over. When I say over, I mean in the sense that I can just completely let her go. Knowing that I am at some point going to have to talk and see her again just to end things is holding me back.
Going dark is wearing on me a bit. Not because I want to contact her (I already know the result of that), but I get frustrated that she has not tried to contact me. I get nothing. Over the past week I have thought about just filing to get this over with but am still trying to be patient. It is hard having no idea what she is thinking.
My wife and I have still have some things that are not completely separate. Things like netflix and sirius XM, the netflix is under her name, sirius XM under mine. I like netflix so I still watch it. Anyway, I noticed last night that House of Cards was in the 'continue watching' section. It was on season 2, episode 1. Today, it was on season 2 episode 5. So what right? This means 4 episodes were watched last night, that's four hours. My wife and I used to binge watch shows together (Dexter, breaking bad, mad men etc). This confirms a OM in my mind because there is no possible way she sat there on a Friday night by herself and watched 4 hours of TV. It bothers me a bit that she found someone else to step in and do something that we had enjoyed doing together.
Do ya'll think I should just continue on with going dark and let things play out? I am not sure what the alternative is. I guess ending things 100% is the alternative.
Hi Pinn, that sounds like a big leap - she watched four hours of TV straight, so there must be an OM! Best not to mindread into situations like that my friend.
Now then, in terms of your frustration about NC. Probably the best plan is to give her the gift of time and space right now. What GAL do you have in progress to occupy your mind and your time? GAL is great to help shift your focus away from stuff that you posted above.
Hope you have a good weekend.
Thanks Sotto.... it's not just the 4 hours of TV... it is everything else + that. Knowing her, I do not think it is a big leap honestly. But I do agree mind reading is a b and does no good... but it is hard not to sometimes!
I am a very busy guy so my mind is usually focused else where. Gym, school, hockey, running (never mind work) takes most of my focus. It is just late at night and early morning when my mind wanders to her, especially lately. I was doing good I think, but have taken a step back the past week or so. It is always something little that sets me back, like those 4 hours of a show being watched. Crazy right?
Nothing really new in my situation. Still going strong with no contact, it's around 2 months now.
I did get one small, tid bit today. My wife was close with my sister in law and my sis. Actually, we had a nice tight group of friends. The majority of which came from me so she might be lonely, I don't know. But anyway, I was texting with my SIL today about a halloween party when she says this:
SIL: Have you heard from Pinette recently?
Me: Naw... Haven't talked to her in any way in several weeks, maybe months now... not sure
SIL: Ah... she has been texting me and your sis recently. I was just wondering what her game plan is here.
Me: Ahhh... well don't tell me about it if she texts you... I like where I'm at
So just something I found interesting. It's really the only news of any kind i've had in a while. I can see her maybe texting my SIL once in a while but it is weird she would be texting my sis. I don't want her to tell me about it (good or bad) because I know how easy I can get triggered.
Pinn,
not to get your hopes up, but they do reconnect to others first and their spouse last, you do know that, right?
I am not saying that that is going on, but it could. Keep the hope alive, but expectations low, actually, have no expectations at all. Live your life, find your own happiness, live as if she is not coming back.
Stay strong buddy...
Thanks Vapo. No expectations is the name of the game. If there is one thing I have learned over the years its that. Just found it interesting, we'll see if it goes anywhere. But in the meantime, I'll keep on keeping on.
Definitely have no expectations. Not saying this is the case with your W at all, but my WW recently reconnected with her sisters, after months of almost no contact. I found out it was because they finally agreed to meet the OM she has been living with. As you can imagine, I was less than thrilled to get that news. In your case, with no solid proof of OM, it could mean anything. Just wanted to let you know not to read too much into your W getting in touch with people; it's impossible to know the motivation. Stay strong - seems like you're doing well overall.
good point DWH. I actually tend to spin things negatively in these types of situations so I already came up with a few reasons why she might be contacting them which are not good.
The SIL I am referring to above is my brothers wife not my wife's sister. My wife never lost touch with her family. The fact she contacted her and my sister is odd. I didn't ask about what and I really do not even want to know.
I am just going to remove this from my mind I think.
just a lil journaling...
Tomorrow is 3 months since I have physically seen my wife, about 2 months since I have had any contact.... freaking surreal.
Lot's of people on here ask posters "What do YOU want"... I was thinking about that today. I constantly go back and forth. A few weeks ago, I was sure I didn't want her back. But now I really do want a new marriage with my wife. I feel like it could be special if she could just snap out of this funk. That back and forth feeling is probably normal at this point??
I hate it when people ask me about her. I was at a race this weekend, saw someone from high school who I have not seen in probably 15 years. Of course, his second or third question was... how is the wife?? I never know what to call her now when talking to others. I don't want to call her my wife. I don't want to call her my soon to be ex either. Weird, but again probably familiar to many.
I just don't know how long this no contact thing can go on for. I don't have the urge to contact her, for sure... but I mean what are we doing already? In a way, if she contacted me and was like let's move this along.... it would almost be a relief. I know we both have the 'gift of time' but jeesh. I just gotta stick with the plan and try not to worry about it until the new year and re-evaluate then unless she moves first. Can't be making any impulsive decisions.
I think we should give gold stars, or something, for a newbie going 3 months without seeing his WW! How about a whistle?
Thanks for the kind words Sandi though I am not sure how much of a role I have played in not seeing her. Not contacting her, that is something that is within my control.
In the book, it says to try things and wait to see if there is a change in 'behavior'. How can I tell if this is having any impact without any insight into her life? Or does it even matter when going dark? I blocked her on FB a while ago, I literally have no idea what is going on in her life. Would her contacting my sister and sister in law be consider a change in behavior? I don't know, seems pretty random to me.
Would her contacting my sister and sister in law be consider a change in behavior? I don't know, seems pretty random to me.
No, I would not consider it a change of behavior.
Continue to hold out. A change of behavior would be when she decides she's ready to commit to doing whatever is necessary to save the M. In the meantime, she wants to act like she's single.
Let her come to you. Do not make it too easy, and don't take her back too quickly. If you do, you will go through this again. Do you know what terms of agreement you would need to try again?
A lot of WW's will temp check, just to see if the H is still emotionally invested. If she sees that he is, her interest immediately leaves. So be aware of any sudden contacts where she's all emotional and
needing you.
Her contact with the SIL, and just the fact you heard about it..........sounds a little like it could have been her just checking things out to see what you've been doing and if her "position" in your life could be threatened. Know what I mean? The best thing (for your M) is for her to hear that you ate happy, and getting out there in your new found freedom.
Most LBH'S are scared to death for his WW to think he isn't holding on for dear life that she'll return to him. Actually, if she is wayward.......that is not the message she needs to get. She needs to be concerned she is setting him free, which means he can replace her with someone else. A better woman, A woman he deserves. A woman who would respect him and treat him well, and give him all the love he didn't get in his R with her.
As long as you sit around pining over her, then she's fine with it. For some reason, a WW wants control over him......even if she doesn't want to be his W. The jealousy factor is still there. Her thought process is all messed up. It makes no sense the LBH. Selfishness and jealousy usually spurs her behavior.
Thanks Sandi once again. Your adivce and encouragement is invaluable. I think I am sending the right message to her. No one thinks I am pinning for her. I told my SIL thanks for letting me know and not to let me know if she contacts her again. Knowing my SIL, she probably relayed that message. I know what you say above is what I need to do. The fact she contacted my sister was the part I thought odd. I could see her contacting my SIL. But point taken, nothing to see here.
I am ready for a sudden contact... so ready for it. Made a lot of mistakes in our pre-marriage days here.
I actually do have terms of agreement needed to try again. We can't keep on making the same mistakes. It would not be easy. Major changes in both of us needed for a new marriage to work. It could be special, I believe it.
I'll keep on going with the NC for now and focus on making myself better.
Bud, you do deserve a medal! You're doing incredibly well for a three month man - I salute you!
Sandi2 deserves a medal as well for giving all us LBS some steel when we have turned in to whimpering wrecks.
It's 3 months... but trust me... this is not new territory. The only reason I am in this shape is because of past experiences with her, the first time I ended up in a 2-3 year funk. We weren't married, but I basically learned most of Sandi's rules then. Even with that experience, I slipped a few times at the beginning this time, before I found this site to keep me centered. This is the last time though. I can't keep going through this... I want a family.
We'll give it some time. Oddly enough, every time this happens, the next phase in our relationship is better.
Hi dude, wanted to let you know I think you're very strong man. In reading your sitch, it is almost identical (ie. met my WW when I was 9, she was my neighbor, we are almost the same age too!).
Been tough but like yourself, I am employing the LRT and staying as dark as possible. Whether anything changes in R dynamics is anyone's guess (unless you notice observable changes), but at least you get to work on you and grow as a person which is unbelievable at this crossroad of our lives.
Being together for so long and knowing / understanding each other inside and out I realized I lost my identity. Now trying to piece that back together trying new things and getting out of comfort zone.
This is unfortunately a slow process but nonetheless a process. Given the journey I think you've done well last few months just need to focus on the best pinn you can be and will become.
Just my .02 but wanted to say I can feel what you're going through.
Stay strong bud.
Thanks man.. Our situations are similar.... Let's see where they go! Just gotta stay strong in the mean time
Thanks for the kind words, guys, I appreciate it.
Just wanted to mention another change of behavior would be her showing respect for her H. Some men confuse respect with niceness. It's not the same. A WW can come on to you all nicey-nice and set you up for something purely motivated by her selfishness. Friendliness is not the same as respect. A lot of men are thrown so badly by her sudden "nice" or "friendly" behavior that they want to believe it is a "sign" she's reaching out. That type of behavior will not last any time, if she doesn't respect him, b/c it's not with the right spirit/heart. Sure, nice/friendly seems pretty good after seeing the she-devil in action.....however, it is respect she has to have before she can feel love for her H. That's why enforcing boundaries are so important. When she starts respecting his boundaries.....then she's made a step in the right direction, but it's only a beginning.
Thanks Sandi.
I guess the obvious question is how do I know if/when that respect has been earned? What's the difference in terms of her actions between nicey-nice and respect? I could easily see myself falling victim to the situation you mention above. I am hoping for the chance to enforce some boundaries!
man... had a terrible dream about the wife last night... worst one yet, no idea why. In my dream she came over and started saying how she made a mistake bla bla bla... then somehow we got talking about who she had been with. She then listed off about 15 guys during our marriage and since we separated, all of whom I know. Then a little boy runs out of the car. She goes I'd like you to meet your son! I was like what? Then she goes, I am just kidding, that is my son with so and so.
Chuckled a bit when I woke up but jeesssh... that one was killer.
Happy weekend!
I guess the obvious question is how do I know if/when that respect has been earned? What's the difference in terms of her actions between nicey-nice and respect? I could easily see myself falling victim to the situation you mention above. I am hoping for the chance to enforce some boundaries!
Needless to say, if a woman is not polite and nice......she probably doesn't respect her H very much. Just don't mistake those two acts as being the only by-products.
To me, a woman's attitude toward her H says it all. The H should know her attitude better than anyone else.
If she's lost respect for him, it will show in how she speaks to him. Observe her tone of voice.....level of volume, harsh or soft, sweet or sarcastic, and the attitude in which she speaks.
How she addresses him and chooses her words. Is there cussing, vulgar name calling, put downs, etc.? And again, her attitude says if it is authentic. For example, is she clinching her teeth while faking sweet endurements? How she addresses you to the children. Does she choose respectful words in reference to their father, or when speaking directly to you in front of your children. The same goes for how she speaks to you and about you in front of friends & family.
The way she responds when
you speak. Does she roll her eyes, huff & puff, breathe long sighs, tapp her foot, put hands on her hips, cross her arms, twist her lips, snarl, squeeze her eyes shut, look up at the ceiling, ignore you, talk above you or interrupt what you are saying, are all signs of disrespect. Looking into your eyes and really listening, and having a calm/pleasant expression of interest on her face is showing respect, especially in front of others.
If she encourages you and builds you up, instead of telling you all your faults.
If she makes you feel important, instead of worthless.
If she explains how she disagrees or is diappointed, in a loving way.....instead of throwing a fit or sulking.
When she does not allow the children or any of her family to show any form of disrespect for you.
When she is proud of you and brags to others.
When she consults with you before making plans.
When she asks for your advice and/or thoughts, and they are appreciated.
When she stops trying to control and manipulate you.
When she is willing to follow you.
These are just a few that come off the top of my head.
The only thing I question is NC. There may be a time for it, but I don't think absence makes the heart grow fonder. Absense makes a fond heart grow fonder. You have to rebuild a connection with your spouse without it seeming like chasing. If you become the distancer, it is possible the wayward then becomes the pursuer, but if they are happy and free, each day not thinking of you takes them further away from you. If you go 3 months without contact, I would think things are getting pretty cold. Why not a little touch here and there, "Know you love yoga, though you might enjoy this article", etc? And you have to find what works with your spouse. Making them jealous will even work on some spouses, but it isn't the best course for most.
Thanks Flight... ironic that you posted this advice as I was having this debate with myself this weekend. Let me repost this in my new thread to get some other takes.