Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2556647#Post2556647Part 2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2565389&page=1Part 3:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2565428#Post2565428Part 4:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=11&page=1Part 5:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2572764#Post2572764Part 6:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2574948#Post2574948Part 7:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2578450&page=1Part 8:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2596736&page=1The story so far...
-STBX involved in A since late December/early January 2015
-I begin versions of LRT in mid-February
-STBX moves in with her parents first week of April
-I expose A to OM's W in mid-April
-STBX threatens to file for D immediately following exposure of A
-Holding pattern for now
-Pulling farther back from STBX
-Established boundary regarding daily contact with children
-STBX served me D papers on 06/19/15
-STBX putting in offers on new home
The name for this thread comes from a Carl Sandburg poem that I have found to be particularly inspiring as of late.
LOSERS
-------
If I should pass the tomb of Jonah
I would stop there and sit for a while;
Because I was swallowed one time deep in the dark
And came out alive after all.
If I pass the burial spot of Nero
I shall say to the wind! "Well, well!"-
I who have fiddled in a world on fire,
I who have done so many stunts not
worth doing.
I am looking for the grave of Sinbad too.
I want to shake his ghost-hand and say,
"Neither of us died very early, did we?"
And the last sleeping-place of
Nebuchadnezzar-
When I arrive there I shall tell the wind:
"You ate grass; I have eaten crow-
Who is better off now or next year?"
Jack Cade, John Brown, Jesse James,
There too I could sit down and stop for
awhile.
I think I could tell their headstones:
"God, let me remember all good losers."
I could ask people to throw ashes on their
heads
In the name of that sergeant at Belleau
Woods,
Walking into drumfires, calling his
men,
"Come on, you . . . Do you want to live
forever?"
Sorry that I haven't been around for a while. Like others have mentioned, being active here can sometimes be a drag, so I've detached a bit from this site.
As far as my sitch is concerned, I have remained dedicated to my present course. I am doing very well and I am truly enjoying life and time with my children. Interactions with STBX are standard, primarily limited to discussions about the children. However, STBX continues to show that she is conflicted by telling me that she misses me and is sad that it turned out this way, etc.
This morning, STBX called a few times and we talked for about 30 minutes. The conversation was reminiscent of others where she laments the quick downfall of our MR. She mentions looking back at pictures, remembering how happy we seemed, and wonders if it was all real. I ask that if all of this was what she really wanted. I just listen. Eventually, I tell her that I am starting a new chapter in my life and say that we are nearing the point of no return in our relationship. She agrees.
So, that's it...
How's everybody doing?
Ugh. Sorry to hear no movement from your WW. I get the same conflicting signals from mine, like she has a lot of regrets. But she never mentions wanting to even try to work on our M, and I never bring it up. Like you, I'm in a holding pattern, but it's getting easier every day. For some reason, I expect that around the time I feel I'm fully over WW and ready to move on, that will be when she has a change of heart. And I'm worried that by then, I will be the one not wanting to save the M anymore. Just stay the course brother. We didn't choose this path, but we need to make the best of it for ourselves.
It amazes me how someone could have so much regret for how the situation turned out, but not an ounce of wherewithal to do the work to fix the situation that they created. WW holds the key to coming back from the R brink, but all she can do is look back and say "tsk tsk...". I am so sorry, Def.
Keep working on you, as I know you are. I still think you are one savvy DBer.
RAI
It amazes me how someone could have so much regret for how the situation turned out, but not an ounce of wherewithal to do the work to fix the situation that they created. WW holds the key to coming back from the R brink, but all she can do is look back and say "tsk tsk...". I am so sorry, Def.
Keep working on you, as I know you are. I still think you are one savvy DBer.
RAI
Yes, I don't get it either. My WW admitted to me at one point she had spent 4 hours the night before crying. I asked her what in the world she was crying about? She had gotten everything she wanted. Best she could come up with was she felt bad about the kids. I don't think she even knows, but yeah, funny how a wayward is willing to inflict all this pain on their family, and themselves, yet stand by their decision to walk away. But like everyone says, you can't try and wrap logic around emotion, and it's pure emotion driving these train wrecks.
I feel bad for mine, because I know she's not rational yet making choices that impact the rest of her life, and everyone in it. There's no doubt she's going to have major regrets at some point down the road. Maybe not for leaving, but for the pain she inflicted on a man she spent 24 years with, on her own 4 kids, and on the dozens of related family and friends. She has to carry that with her the rest of her life. The LBS on this board are paying the price now, but we are going to get healthy again, and have happy lives. I don't see any happy endings for a WS, at least not in the long run. There may be pockets of artificial, temporary happiness but they are all illusions that fade quickly. Not sure what else we do though, other than save ourselves and our children as best we can.
Sorry that I haven't been around for a while. Like others have mentioned, being active here can sometimes be a drag, so I've detached a bit from this site.
Understandable, we all go through those phases where its just easier to focus on us while not reading/posting on here. Might be needed with how long we end up being in the strange limbo periods with nothing happening.
Hey gang,
Thanks for checking in and offering your support. I am in a good place right now.
One quick update ...
Our mediation is scheduled for 09/16. Any advice for what to expect and/or prepare for?
Thanks!
Quick update...
Still not any real movement in my sitch. Mediation is scheduled for the middle of September.
STBX dropped off something Saturday morning and she hung out for a bit. Before she left, she moved to sit next to me in the love seat. She put her head on my shoulder and I gently wrapped my arm around her head. I told her that I liked it when she pulled her hair back that way. I resisted the urge to do or say anything more. I was really starting to wonder if I could ever feel anything for STBX again. It felt good and I was able to forget about everything for a few minutes.
Had another wonderful weekend with the kids. I really look forward to planning fun things to do together with them.
It's my wedding anniversary this Sunday. I already have plans to go out with friends that night. I don't really think I will be impacted by the past significance of that day.
Quick question guys and gals.
Next Wednesday is my mediation. Would it make any sense to throw a Hail Mary as it appears we are in the eleventh hour? I'm leaning towards no but I was just wondering if anyone had other thoughts.
I'm always of the "yes, do it" minority. What have you got to lose?? You sound nearly done with her yourself. SHE is running out of time.
But she still works with OM and I have no doubt the affair is continuing. She's still conflicted but paralyzed by the "what ifs".
If you do....remember my "she's gotta leave that job" demand I outlined for you months and months ago. It's gotta be your number one requirement right now.
The last ditch letter would include:
1 - You love her.
2 - You want to stay married.
3 - You are sorry for your part in bringng the marriage to the state it is. Also that you are learning how to make a relationship better and take into account the other persons feelings with all your actions.
4 - You have to cut off all contact because of the pain of her obviously continuing affair and her leading you on.
5 - You will agree to contact again when she gives up the affair and agrees to take the necessary steps for recovery.
6 - You love her
It's been long enough. If you divorce...she's not your friend. She never really will be and it's unhealthy for you (and a bad example to your child) to maintain a friendship with someone that has abused you to the extent she has. Your wife MAY be on the fence right now. Maybe the threat of finally pulling back and going dark on her will push her over the edge towards finally making a choice. Staying available to her obviously ins't working. Maybe a few weeks of actually being unavailable to her will make a difference (she doesn't know what she's going to be losing yet...because she hasn't yet been faced with actually losing it...waywards always think they are entitled to your never ending love, care and sacrifice).
As far as mediation - maybe you will get a great offer you'd be a fool not to take. Going dark for few days or a week ahead of it may push her to try to be nicer to get you back meeting her needs. However, usually mediation is worthless because the wayward wife feels entitled to demand and take everything without any compromise. When that happens you'll find the mediators pressuring you to take the deal...and compromise everything because working on you appears to be more fruitful towards reaching a settlement. Remember...their goal is to facilitate a settlement NOT fairness. You don't have to agree to anything. Usually I recommend avoiding face to face mediation. Let your attorney be the bad guy while you just state you'd rather save your marriage than negotiate at all.
I'm confused. After this mediation appointment, are you immediately divorced? I would think that there would be another few months, no? Why give that letter now?
I don't understand it either Az. I think that if they reach agreement in mediation, that may be the end. Outside of a few days to get everything officially signed, notarized, etc. But no idea; I'm sure it varies by location.
If that's the case, I agree that one last ditch attempt at R may be in order. Doesn't mean you can't continue trying even after D, but if you are reaching your own personal breaking point, not much left to lose. Personally, I consider myself done after D. I'm planning to file after a full year of S, then will be another 6 months until D final. If WW can't show some signs of wanting to save a 24-year R after 18 months apart, I give up. I may still have feelings even then, but will be taking active steps to move on by that point, including dating.
GB, Az, Dwh,
Thanks for the replies! I'm not sure how it works either but based on how everything has went so far, I would think we'd be able to resolve everything in mediation. That's why I feel like the end is near.
My problem with sending a letter like that is I don't feel STBX is anywhere close to working on R. She is obviously conflicted but she appears to be more upset about her loss of friends and normalcy then she is about losing me and MR. That's not a R I would ever want to be in. See, STBX opened this door and now I realize that I deserve better.
STBX called me on our wedding anniversary and acknowledged that it was sad. I asked her why she felt that way and she couldn't really tell me, just that it was sad.
Quick update:
As I finished talking with kids last night, STBX asked to talk with me. She basically apologized for building up resentment against me at the end of MR. I responded by briefly apologizing for my role in that. She then said that she didn't want me to be so stoic. I responded that I was confused as to how I was supposed to act towards her. I told STBX that I would not be able to be friends with her going forward. She said she didn't understand why this was so.
STBX wondered out loud if I ever cared for her. I responded by saying that I cared for her deeply in the past and I sincerely hope that she is happy in the future. STBX became tearful and after a few minutes of wishing her the best, I just ended the call with, "Goodbye, Xxxxxx."
If you're wondering, at no time did STBX ever say anything remotely hinting at working on R.
I know that I will obviously see STBX again but that conversation felt like a little bit of closure for both of us.
As usual, I think you handled that very well. It seems like your W still has very poor insight into how a relationship is supposed to work.
RAI
Thanks, RAI. Just doing the best I can. I appreciate the kudos.
STBX called this morning and asked to come over to say hello. I agreed. We engaged the kids for a bit. As I was navigating the end of her visit, STBX asked if she could talk with me upstairs.
STBX laid down on my bed and wrapped her arms around me. She asked me why I unfriended her on Facebook and Instagram. I just told her that I'm ready to start a new chapter of my life. She became tearful and continued to say that she was sad and she was sorry she let me down. She then made a comment about me being able to forgive her. I just kept quiet as I wasn't sure how to respond. I did say that I know she is dealing with a bunch of emotions right now and I would like to hear how she is feeling. However, STBX didn't really respond to this so I let it be. After a few minutes, I mentioned that she should head home and get some rest.
STBX slowly said her goodbyes to the kids. She had tears in her eyes as she watched me play with the kids. She came over to hug me multiple times. I kept them brief. I then walked her to the door. She hugged me once more. I looked into STBX's eyes and simply said, "You always have a choice." Then I said goodbye and she left.
It is what it is. Maybe I was too receptive too her hugs. Who knows? I don't expect to see her again before mediation on Wednesday so I figured it couldn't hurt to be gentle with STBX. I'm sure her sentimentality is normal at this stage of the sitch so I'm not reading anything into it. I don't plan to do anything out of the ordinary from here on out. Reality will set in soon enough for both of us.
And oh yeah, happy week 1 of NFL football everybody!
Hey gang. Mediation went well today. Nothing shocking. All that's left is for a judge to make D final. Feel that we arrived at good agreement.
Definitely feel odd about everything. It's sad to hear STBX actually say that she love's me so much and still voice indecision even after we signed the agreement.
What's next for me? Not sure. I definitely think it will take a bit for everything to sink in and for me to catalog all my emotions.
Defacto,
I cant imagine the thoughts and feelings you have had these last couple of days. I hope my WW and I can end in mediation as well. I think you did the right thing. The ball is in her court and you were right not to beg for her in the end. It was a trap in my opinion. You did well IMHO.
She then made a comment about me being able to forgive her. I just kept quiet as I wasn't sure how to respond.
Forgiveness doesn't equate reconciliation of your relationship. Meaning you can forgive her someday....when she apologizes, stops the behavior and repents. At that point in time it would likely be unhealthy for you to remain in a close relationship with her at all (unless you reconcile your marriage) but that decision would be made a later time and depend on many factors.
Factors:
1. How long before she actually repents
2. Whether you are in a new relationship or not at that time as you aren't going to make some new wife (or girlfriend) second fiddle behind a woman that cast you aside.
3. Whether her apology is real...crocodile tears just don't cut it.
4. Whether she is willing to and/or makes amends
The short answer is:" I can forgive you when you demonstrate you are really sorry. Doesn't mean will will for sure be buddy buddy thereafter. Forgiving a wife is probably a simple (but not easy) thing to do. I've told you several times I am willing and able to try to recover and rebuild our marriage and your ignoring that and continuing down this path has just served to push me further away. When a spouse cheats on you, cast you aside, chases you around hugging and kissing you and telling you how much she misses you but never stops divorcing you is probably not "friend" material."
"Leave your job working with [OM's wife's first name] husband, let me know you want to be my wife again and commit to taking full responsibility for your behavior and working a recovery plan and, if I'm still available and interested I'll consider it. Otherwise, please leave me alone so I can heal from this the most hurtful experience of my life and the lives of our children."
Please limit your communication with me to only emergencies and pertinent information regarding our children; and, even then only do so by text message or email. [I'd prefer you to advise you to use an intermediary for communications and run your child exchanges through a neutral party such that you do not see or speak to each other in person for at least one year but that's just me. I feel it's healthier but I understand a lot of people in real life with pressure you to behave otherwise "for the kids" which is code for "suck it up buttercup...your hurt is making everyone else uncomfortable and if you love your kids you'll swallow it". Consider giving yourself at least 3, 6, 9, 12 months without directly relating to your ex-wife at all (unless she desperate to try to reconcile, leaves the job and commits to a recovery plan) as a truly healthy individual recovery plan for you.]
Take care. My sister lives off Spanish River. I probs won't be down there until 2016...MAYBE....wish there was a way we could meet for a drink, philosophy talk and some Karaoke in the coffee district.
WhyUs,
Thanks for the encouragement. I wish you the best in the resolution of your sitch. I would have been a fool not to sign the mediation agreement.
GB,
Thank you so much for your continued support and gut checking advice during this journey. The tragic part about all of this is just last night STBX tearfully tells me that she feels that this is all her fault. Also, she just accepted a job in a different department at the same hospital. However, for me, once the D is final, it is my intention to move on from any R for good, other than coparenting, with STBX.
If you are in my area sometime in the near future, I would enjoy meeting up to share a beverage.
Cheers!
Hello guys and gals,
Just wanted to check in to offer an update and ask for some advice.
Quick recap...D mediation finalized last Wednesday. However, immediately following, STBX expressed a lot of uncertainty and doubt about the sitch. Last Thursday night, she called and we talked, more like I listened, for about an hour or so. STBX still wants to play the blame game but shows a real lack of direction.
I started thinking about the DB journey and all the strategies therein. Then I asked myself if I would have any regrets when the D became final. You know, the mirror test. I figured I would always regret not providing the vision of a different future for my children and my STBX. It would be one thing if STBX was obstinate and resolute but she was not. Maybe STBX is conflicted because she doesn't have a vision for any future other than D right now. I also knew that time was of the essence for me emotionally because once D is final, I will not have any interest in hanging around.
So, I decided to call STBX Friday morning and provide an alternate ending for this sitch. I didn't beg. I didn't plead her to reconsider. I just told her that I would always regret us not trying harder for the kids. I reminded her that we had nothing left to lose at this point. She said that she had her reservations and I told her that I had mine to. STBX asked questions about what the future might hold. I answered them with conviction but healthy uncertainty. I didn't demand an answer but I felt successful in at least getting her to imagine a different future for herself.
Since then, our interactions seem more frequent and more friendly. However, I'm sure this is more me making myself available to STBX. Yesterday when I picked up the kids, STBX gave me one of the tightest hugs in quite a while. Additionally, she told me that I looked really good. She repeated it later that night. However, she has not really responded or reacted to our Friday conversation. And of course, the worst thing to do would be to pressure her right now.
I know what I did might seem in opposition to some DB principles. However, I just felt like I needed to respond to STBX's uncertainty with leadership and vision. I have nothing to lose at this point and know I can truly say I have no regrets.
Any advice on what I should do next?
Hi Defacto, that sounds fair enough to me. And you applied the important measure. How will I feel about all of this in the longer term.
I think probably what to do next is carry on as you were. You made an overture from a place of strength and if your W wants to respond to that she will do...
Good luck with things xx
Hey D!
I'm out running errands but just wanted to pop in and say hi! I would let it lie. If you were clear then W knows where you stand.
Good luck!
Hey Defacto as we've heard nothing more from you should we assume that your D is now complete and you are onwards and upwards without your XW?
Hey Defacto as we've heard nothing more from you should we assume that your D is now complete and you are onwards and upwards without your XW?
Hello Avanti,
I wish I had some resolution, any resolution really. All that's left is for STBX to sign and make the D final before a judge. It's been a few weeks since mediation and I really don't know what the hold up is?
I'm friendly in our interactions but I don't pursue. There have been no discussions about R since I tried to give STBX an alternate vision a few days after the mediation. Truthfully, STBX doesn't seem all that interested, but then she will ask for details about my plans and insist on giving me multiple hugs when she drops off the kids. Today, she made a point to remind me that her birthday is coming up LOL.
I just want this all to be over so I can close this chapter of my life. However, I know I can only control me at this point.
On a positive note, I've started writing music again and am excited to be starting a new project with some new players this week.
D - is she still with the OM? It sounds like she is all over the map? As for music that's awesome! I was thinking about picking up an instrument in my free time to learn. I still haven't though. I paddle too much.
D - is she still with the OM? It sounds like she is all over the map? As for music that's awesome! I was thinking about picking up an instrument in my free time to learn. I still haven't though. I paddle too much.
Mahhhty,
Yeah, she was definitely all over the map following the mediation but that has settled down now.
I have no idea if she is still with OM. I do know that she is starting to work on a different floor next week.
If you are serious about learning an instrument, learn to play the guitar. It is easy to learn and fun to play along with you favorite songs to start off.
Did you ever follow Squiggy? His wife was having an affair and filed for D. But then broke it off in the 11th hour and started to reconcile.
Your W sounds like his. She was all over the map. Playing both sides.
He was very vigilant and when things started to change he adapted. I think you will find yourself there to. If given opportunities to court her (flirt, hug, be playful, whatever brought you two together) do that. As being sporadic is definitely related to uncertainty. However, only do this if you believe there is no OM.
but then she will ask for details about my plans and insist on giving me multiple hugs when she drops off the kids. Today, she made a point to remind me that her birthday is coming up LOL.
I just want this all to be over so I can close this chapter of my life. However, I know I can only control me at this point.
On a positive note, I've started writing music again and am excited to be starting a new project with some new players this week.
My W wrote her birthday down on the calendar. I want to say, "are you afraid you'll forget it?" She did the you can help the kids do something for Mother's Day last year. I did. Did she do something for Father's Day. Of course not. Did something for her B-day last year. Did she do anything for mine. Of course not. Did she have the kids help out with either of those days. Nope. I really think there is just an awful lot of denial going on to be honest.
They don't get that this is just a business arrangement now. They made it this way. We didn't want that. They've chosen this and have shown no consideration toward us for anything beyond that. And yet, they seem to think they deserve something more from us.
Best thing we can do for them is to help them face the consequences so that they can heal themselves and maybe allow for something else to grow from the ashes.
Glad you're going the mediation route at least.
asitis,
Yeah, it really is a twisted dichotomy right now. The mediation went smoothly. I really thought that it would be the end for anything to do with STBX. Once she finalizes the D, I'm done. However, her apparent reluctance to finish it requires me to continue to walk the line for just a little bit longer. I'm trying to force the present reality without being a jerk.
As far as her birthday is concerned, I had already planned for the kids to get something for her. That'll be it.
Of course being a jerk is not helpful for your future of having to deal w/ her & the kids' future.
The higher ground is always more solid. I know you want to wash your hands of the whole thing, but I'm suspecting it won't be that easy based on what you report on the W's not moving things forward and her not-so-subtle contrary behavior.
Keep your peace.
So the roller coaster continues gang...
STBX called tonight and said that her L set the court date for Oct 13. STBX tells me that she still goes back and forth between just seeing it through and deal with the loss AND realizing she's not being sensible (moving forward with D). She asks if we could get together one night just the two of us before her court date. She pitches it in a way like a last hurrah, some last grasp at clarity before its all over.
In a way, this makes me feel pretty cheap and used. Plus, realistically , I know nothing can happen in one night to repair years of damage. However, how do you say no, knowing that doing so guarantees the D will be final in a weeks time? So, of course, I said I was interested but I didn't overreact or anything. We just left it at we would figure out the details in the coming days.
No pressure, right? Geez...
Suggestions anybody?
Ask her to clarify what you would be speaking about if you met. Allow her to express her needs.
Repair might take a while but this seems like a TSN turning point. (Sorry for the sports reference.)
Don't be stupid.
Just say yes.
You are correct nothing can fix it one one night. But one night can surely start the ball rolling. Why not have one more night. Be open. Be adaptable aka malleable.
Mahhty's & Abe31's advice don't necessarily contradict, and I thing both are good. Another chance to DB. It may just be assuaging guilt on her part, but it is an opportunity even if that is all it is. Just go in w/ no expectations, business relationship. You might be D, but the Rcontinues. You might be D, but if she (and the two of you) can work something healthy and good out, it is a bonus on top of the current trajectory of D wo/ something healthy developing.
Abe, Mahhhty, asitis,
Thanks for the responses. I'd love to hear your advice based on a new wrinkle...
This morning d4 mentioned that she had met OM multiple times. I asked her when and she wasn't certain (she's 4 obviously) but she did mention a grocery store, picking out a cake, and something about a crown. Well, d4's birthday is in a couple of weeks and STBX told me about picking out a cake for d4. This was on Sunday!!
Ughh. I should have known she would have brought OM around my children. That certainly stinks but the potential recentness is startling.
I still think I get together with STBX but utilize this info to keep me grounded and my expectations low.
You need to know what you want. Do you want to R? If so, get your head on straight prior to the conversation.
You see your wife flip-flopping. She's spending time with you and your assumption is she's still spending time with OM.
Again, ask her what she wants to discuss with you prior to the meeting. Like a meeting agenda. That way, you know what the starting point is. You'll then have to be fluid and see where the conversation goes.
Be in the moment.
Take extra time to process what she says.
Respond with your ultimate goal in mind.
Let her come to you.
Hmmmm.
I agree with Abe.
But I also agree with Squiggy's Thread. In his thread, he took a strong stance with his W about the OM. He basically said, I am not open to anything but discussing his S while W was involved with OM. Then he began to file D paperwork. It is a very strong stance, but she did drop the OM and get back with him.
If you go Abe's route be very composed, they way he described. And rehearse the awful things you will hear so that you aren't shocked. Prepare for any situation.
You need to know what you want. Do you want to R? If so, get your head on straight prior to the conversation.
You see your wife flip-flopping. She's spending time with you and your assumption is she's still spending time with OM.
Again, ask her what she wants to discuss with you prior to the meeting. Like a meeting agenda. That way, you know what the starting point is. You'll then have to be fluid and see where the conversation goes.
Be in the moment.
Take extra time to process what she says.
Respond with your ultimate goal in mind.
Let her come to you.
Abe,
Great response. Well thought out. Appreciate it.
I am open to R under the right conditions.
As far as what she wants to discuss, STBX didn't propose it as a meeting to really discuss anything. It came off as more of a night to just hang out. It seemed almost like a quasi-date. As in, "Hey, I'm about to D you but I'm still conflicted. Let's hang out just the two of us. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind."
However, I know to expect a tough conversation, so I like Mahhhty's recommendation to prepare for the worst. I think the goal of the night will be to get STBX talking about her feelings. I will need to expertly listen and validate, while providing guidance when necessary.
I don't plan to bring up OM unless the conversation goes there.
My short term goal is for STBX to simply delay D. My long term goal would be to just attempt R, under the right conditions of course.
My short term goal is for STBX to simply delay D. My long term goal would be to just attempt R, under the right conditions of course.
D -
Hope all is well with you. Been a while since you posted frequently.
Anyway, try to remember that the actual act of DIVORCE is only really the way of telling the government your relationship status. It doesnt DEFINE your relationship status. In all reality, youve already been divorced for 6 months, ya know? Delay or no delay, Im not sure the physical act changes your relationship any nor does it really change your chances at potential future reconciliation.
Ultimately, the worst has already happened. Theres nothing left to be scared of.
As far as what she wants to discuss, STBX didn't propose it as a meeting to really discuss anything. It came off as more of a night to just hang out. It seemed almost like a quasi-date. As in, "Hey, I'm about to D you but I'm still conflicted. Let's hang out just the two of us. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind."
I am new to your thread and lord only knows that my advice may be off the wall, but let me ask you this - is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sure seems that way. If you truly wonder - and it seems like you do - then what have you got to lose? Maybe the total DB mindset needs to be rethought and you need to actually say let's do this. The OM situation needs to be dealt with, for sure - but if there is part of you that wants yours to work, then why not take a leap of faith?
A great quote to live by: "To try and to fail is to learn. To fail to try is to suffer the inestimable loss of what might have been."
Az,
Yeah, I was on hiatus as nothing really was happening.
You're right. Thanks for the perspective. I guess the reason I would want her to delay D is because I set a personal goal that once D is final, I would close the door on this R. However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.
However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.
If you want to look at it that way, then yes. But from all appearances the door is open.
is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself
That old stubborn pride! Very typical of WW's. I think that's one the factors in the reconciliation that is very hard for her, to get down off her high horse and be humble.
I think that's one the factors in the reconciliation that is very hard for her, to get down off her high horse and be humble.
You can go ahead and add my W in there, too...
As far as what she wants to discuss, STBX didn't propose it as a meeting to really discuss anything. It came off as more of a night to just hang out. It seemed almost like a quasi-date. As in, "Hey, I'm about to D you but I'm still conflicted. Let's hang out just the two of us. Maybe it'll help me make up my mind."
I am new to your thread and lord only knows that my advice may be off the wall, but let me ask you this - is she prideful? Some of the things you posted make me think that she is leaving the door open for you but too prideful to ask herself. Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it sure seems that way. If you truly wonder - and it seems like you do - then what have you got to lose? Maybe the total DB mindset needs to be rethought and you need to actually say let's do this. The OM situation needs to be dealt with, for sure - but if there is part of you that wants yours to work, then why not take a leap of faith?
A great quote to live by: "To try and to fail is to learn. To fail to try is to suffer the inestimable loss of what might have been."
E,
Thanks for stopping by my thread!
In response to your question, STBX is not prideful to a fault but I can tell that she has dug her heels in a bit. Even yesterday, she said that she is contemplating just seeing D through and deal with the loss. She then said that she thinks she would always question her decision. That definitely sounds like the stubbornness that Sandi mentioned.
A few days after the mediation when STBX was expressing reluctance about D, I swung for the fence, took the lead a bit, and offered alternate resolutions for R. Up until yesterday, she hadn't responded.
However, I see your point that figuratively, we've already been divorced since this whole thing started.
If you want to look at it that way, then yes. But from all appearances the door is open.
Are you suggested that being divorced in any sense means that reconciliation is impossible? In my opinion, it's just a current status. I believe eh tat my relationship with my wife will continue until I'm ready to decide that I am ready to move on to a new one. Not sure when that will be or what will trigger it yet.
But, even if I decide to move on, that doesn't mean that if things work out in some way that we can't R in the future anyway - even if I had previously been closed off to it.
So you've made your intentions clear that you are open to reconciliation. Fine, not it is her decision, pride or not. As long as she knows that you are open to letting her back in the door to see where things might lead, it won't be pride that will likely be the blocking factor IMHO.
When you have your next mediation, making introducing D to OM an agenda item. You need to have an agreement on what the ground rules you will both operate under for the well being of your D. This is not interfering w/ the A, it is about your child. The mediator will be able to educate you on what the recommended approach is on this topic. If you have to do the mandatory training, you'll get this, but not all states require divorcing couples w/ kids to go through this. Generally, don't introduce child to a romantic partner for a year after D is final. And then, don't introduce until both parties have chosen to date each other exclusively. It is best then to notify other spouse to discuss that this introduction will take place, and discuss how to do it in a way that is best for your D.
On the "date," you know the drill: lots of active listening & validation, take nothing personally and don't react to anything as if it is a big deal, and try to be friendly like the two business partners you are at this point. Not dating, not H & W, not even friends. Just friendly but detached.
One last thing I want to throw in to the mix: Do not discuss R.
Make sure she is coming to you. I think you have your head on right but in the moment you might think to throw a hail mary pass. Don't.
Go with short gains like listening, validating and at the end, ask her how she wants to proceed if things go well.
Agree. Never lose sight of you not initiating R talk, not trying to provoke some change in spouse in one particular action (hail Marys), etc.
That said, you might start off with a reflection. I'm really impressed with us that during this very stressful time that we can sit down together like this and just talk. I really have to say that I respect you, me, and our R that we are able to do this at this time. I couldn't have imagined 4 or 6 months ago being good with just sitting down to do this. You started a conversation that I wasn't even aware that we needed to have. And it has been a time of growth for both of us, even while it has been painful at times. Look at how far we've come sitting here like this. I'm just really impressed with both of us. Has anything surprised you about all this?
Even if she doesn't bite that hook, you've shown respect, you've called attention to something you value in her, you've called attention subtly that you work well together to be able to do this (and you should notice that many, many couples at the stage where you are could not do what you are doing). You've also signalled that you are OK and that she is free to open up without worrying that you will be reactive rather than responding healthily. If she does open up about something she is surprised by, you get a chance to listen and validate, and continue the conversation on a positive or empathy-building line of discussion. This is part of what my DB coach had me do, and her rationale was very strong and reasonable.
Now, I want to warn you that W may drop another bomb on you during this meeting. She may be setting you up to assuage her guilt and tell you something painful in a safe place. You have to be prepared for that, and go into it with a detachment that no matter what she says, you are OK with it. Your life goes on (this is done by not reacting rather than stating you are fine and focused on your life - she won't believe you). You also - and many guys need this as we are often unaware that due to male-female socialization we don't do this - make a safe space for her to express her needs and desires. So,don't focus on the content of what she might hit you with. Your focus is how to show her with your calm, detached, understanding, validating new you, that she is safe to voice her wants and needs with you. With DBing, it is not the content of what they say, but the skillful process you model in your new self, that allows her to express her needs, be heard and understood, and to be free to make her own decisions.
For many men (and some women), this is very tough to do. You are showing through actions that you are someone she can be vulnerable with, take a risk (which leads to vulnerability), and that you respect her, her boundaries, ability to choose for herself, and fix her own issues rather than you stepping in to tell her (even if very subtly - & from experience, many men do this) what she should do as if she were a child and you the parent.
Listen, validate, detach. Lather, rinse, repeat. You are to the point where I know you can pull this off.
Finally, when she opens up, try to imagine things from her perspective, even if you disagree with her ultimately. She doesn't really care what you say. She cares that you are someone she can see getting her needs met and fears addressed. So, focus on process at least as much as the content of what she says. You can figure the latter out after the fact, including her.
Defacto,
You are welcome, sir. It seems like my advice is contradictory to what every one else is saying and I am fine with that. Just providing another view point.
She then said that she thinks she would always question her decision.
That statement tells me that the door is open and that she is giving you the chance to walk through it. But it also seems, that due to the stubbornness, that it may also close rather quickly if you don't recognize it and act. And by acting, I mean actually saying it rather than hints.
A few days after the mediation when STBX was expressing reluctance about D, I swung for the fence, took the lead a bit, and offered alternate resolutions for R.
Swung for the fence? Did you actually say let's do this or just give a subtle hint that you are open to the R? There is a huge difference in the two. Some people have to be hit over the head and be told bluntly and openly. And some just want to hear it. Maybe she does.
The question is, since the door is obviously open and she is asking you to walk through it - will you take a leap of faith? Or just let things continue and hope that she will get over her stubbornness and take the leap herself? Which one will lead to biggest regret?
Those are questions only you can answer. Maybe my advice is wrong - and I have been wrong many times before. But it just seems to me that she is asking - sort of holding her hand out to see if you will take it. But I don't know her and her intentions. All I know is what you have provided. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith.
I just think that if even part of a person wants to save their marriage, then they should do all they could and exhaust all avenues. Maybe even swallow a bit of their own pride and walk through the open door. Just sayin.
I'd have you send a text message to the OM's wife saying something like:
I have reason to suspect my wife and your husband are still in contact. My 4 year old daughter claims to have met him out and about several times including the grocery store picking out a cake (and her birthday party is coming up soon). My best guess is that this happened on September ___. On another note, my wife and I have mediated our divorce agreement and she can finalize the divorce whenever she chooses and I'll be out of her life. She is procrastinating such and remains affectionate yet indecisive about reconciliation. I believe your husband's continuing affair with my wife is the likely reason she is unable to commit to anything but I could be wrong. I am reaching the point of not caring one way or another but I thought you should be aware. Also, perhaps he should be aware that if he has intentions of divorcing you to be with my wife permanently, that my children are aware of the truth about his destroying their family and neither they, nor I, will accept him into their lives. He will be voluntarily stepping into a situation where he will be resented and despised, indefinitely; and, likewise I'm sure you'll feel the same about my wife.
I've attempted to engage you in this battle for our marriages but you have resisted thus far. My wife has already moved out and filed divorce. There is little I can do. Your husband is the doctor with much more to lose (custody and money). He probably has no intention of divorcing you whatsoever. My wife is probably just a side piece of action in a short or long list of other side pieces of action these narcissitic doctors seem to accumulate while living their lives for the hospital and working long hours in close proximity with idolizing females. You could have blown this up a long time ago and I'm a little resentful at your apparent lack of follow through (again - I could be wrong). Your husband is a wayward liar. If you intend to remain married to him, you must make him accountable to you for his actions and his whereabouts in a verifiable manner. Taking his word about anything is merely enabling him. I wish you well.
It's worth a shot.
Have your "last date" with her and then demand she decide. Give her an ultimatum (realizing that her indecisiveness has no end to it until you give it an end). The ultimatum shouldn't be whether she finalizes the divorce or not because she could just prolong that and maintain this indecisive stance for months longer. Instead it should be YOUR boundary and what it will take for her to have the privilege and right to remain in YOUR life.
I would advise you to put this in writing in an envelope you hand her after your GREAT date.
Use the language I've discussed several times in your thread.
Something like:
As you are aware, I still remain in love with you enough to attempt recovery and reconciliation of our marriage in spite of your illicit and ongoing affair with Dr. Poopyhead (yes I am fully aware you are still spending time with him and talking to him as is his wife).. The mixed signals (affection and compliments) followed by indecision are slowing draining all the remaining love you have for her and you are just about done. Therefore, she has to decide now if she intends to remain in your life at all.
Starting today - right now she should be advised to not to see, speak or have any contact you whatsoever until she decides to commit to:
1. No Contact with OM (which should include a plan whereby she leaves that workplace all together - not just another floor)
2. She commits to a marital recovery plan
Then you must follow through. She must become aware of what life will look like post divorce with you GONE. She must miss you. She must fear and feel losing you forever.
Arrangements for an intermediary to communicate regarding the children should be in place. She shouldn't be able to call or even text you directly and child exchanges should be done through her parents, your parents or a friend. Do not even let her lay eyes on you.
All,
I appreciate the response an advice. Certainly a lot of collective wisdom to consider here.
So, tentatively scheduled to get together with STBX on Saturday night. Initially, she suggested just hanging on with the kids but I let her know that I thought it was important for it just to be the two of us. I chose a place that is casual, eclectic, and fun, with lots of stuff going on to engage us if the small talk dries up.
I want to simply have a good time and be in the moment. If I try to hard, STBX will be able to tell. I love asitis' suggestion on creating a safe environment for STBX to feel comfortable being vulnerable.
I'm hesitant to go on the attack again in regards to OM. Regardless of R, what's best for my young children is for mom and dad to be able to co-parent effectively. STBX and I are doing well that right now. I have no interest in blowing that up again.
Az,
You're wise to remind me that feelings can change over time, even after D. I know anything is possible with an uncertain future.
So, tentatively scheduled to get together with STBX on Saturday night. Initially, she suggested just hanging on with the kids but I let her know that I thought it was important for it just to be the two of us. I chose a place that is casual, eclectic, and fun, with lots of stuff going on to engage us if the small talk dries up.
I want to simply have a good time and be in the moment. If I try to hard, STBX will be able to tell. I love asitis' suggestion on creating a safe environment for STBX to feel comfortable being vulnerable.
That sounds like a good idea. I like the safe environment idea. If you are wanting to have a good time and be in the moment, then what is your goal out of it? Just a date, or explore the possibility of trying again? As I have said before, from what you have written it really does seem the door is open but its up to you step through. I am not saying jump in full force with the "I love you" and stuff like that, but let her know in no uncertain terms that you want to try again. Don't be vague and tiptoe around things. Now, unless she really is a vindictive b**ch and playing you, then this seems to be the time. I guess the real question is, do you want to? If it were me, I would take the opportunity because I want to save my marriage. That's a no-brainer.
Jump in but yet take baby steps is all you can do. Baby steps. It seems (and we all know how my advice is counter to all others on here) that you want to, so why not? Really, at this point, what is there to lose? Quite honestly, only you know your W, but from what you have written, its there.
I'm hesitant to go on the attack again in regards to OM. Regardless of R, what's best for my young children is for mom and dad to be able to co-parent effectively. STBX and I are doing well that right now. I have no interest in blowing that up again.
Unfortunately, if you want to give it a go again with your W, then that is what has to be done. She has to know that you won't play second fiddle to anyone...period. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you don't stand up in regards to the OM, then she will view you as a doormat and will continue - with him or maybe even another. If you don't want to try with her again, then just let her continue the A.
Great questions, E. Thanks for responding!
My goals are twofold. Firstly, just be myself and have fun . Why not? Secondly, listen to STBX and attempt to better understand her perspective at this time. I am open to the idea of trying again but I'm also comfortable with this R being over too.
I agree that OM needs to be out of the picture for STBX and I to ever give it a go again. If the journey ever takes us to that crossroad, obviously no contact with OM is a must. However, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here. Like you said, baby steps. Plus, my intel is from my d4. When I asked d4 more time specific questions, she was less than reliable in her answers.
Right now, I feel it's most important to place all my focus on things I can control, like getting my priorities in order and my head on straight. Mind reading would be a giant mistake right now. Plus, like asitis mentioned, it's entirely possible that STBX could be on the verge of another BD. If I get get back to DB basics, I'll be best equipped for whatever the future holds. Either way it ends up, I know I'll be ok.
Hi Defacto, I hope your get together goes well. I think light and friendly is the way to go and I wouldn't let your W know that you are still interested in possible R unless she asks you a direct question to that effect. If she does, you can answer honestly and authentically, knowing you'll be fine either way.
WRT OP - If that ever arises with my H, I plan to say that if I have learned one thing, it is that I don't want to live like that (having a third person involved in ANY way with my partner). That is not how I want my life to be - take it or leave it - if you still want to be in touch with OP, I don't want us to be in touch (apart from essential kid stuff).
Good luck, relax and enjoy xx
Hi Sotto,
Thanks for the reply and great advice. I'm pretty confident going into tonight. I'm just going to be upbeat, casual, and comfortable. If STBX decides to share, I will be ready to actively listen and validate.
Good luck tonight! Either way you have a life full of happiness waiting for you!
On the edge of my seat waiting to see how things went tonight.
Street walkin cheetah, am I right?
T0 and Az,
Thanks for checking in on me. Street walking cheetah indeed!
Things went fine tonight. I was all the things I wanted to be. I was calm, confident, and casual. I didn't initiate any R talk. Neither did STBX. We had fun and kept it pretty light.
On the ride home, I saw she got a text from OM.
At the end of the night, STBX told me she had fun, thanked me for coming out, and leaned over to give me a hug. I broke off the hug after a moment or two.
The D will be final on Tuesday.
"I was all the things I wanted to be"
I think that says it all Defacto and that's as much as you can hope for. I guess STBX getting a text from OM was telling too and I imagine you wouldn't want to open up in those circumstances.
It sounds like (although you don't want to D) you are in a pretty good place generally and I have every confidence your life will go from good to great.
Take care my friend xx
You sound like you're in a good place, D. I would advise you to not have anymore of these outings. Especially now that you know, whatever the circumstance may be, that she is still somewhat involved with OM.
I hope you will distance yourself from her but still maintain a good co parenting relationship. I'm not quite sure what that looks like entirely but I do still think your W has no fear of really losing you. My suggestion is to cut her off as anything more than a coparenting relationship.
Well def, glad that you were able to enjoy the night.
Your conviction towards your Dignity, self-respect and your heart is admirable. I've been reading all along, just not much to post what has already been said.
Proud of you!!!
Sotto, T0, & Z,
Thanks so much for following up on my sitch! Your support and confidence is invaluable.
This year has been devastating, to say the least. However, I am extremely proud of how I have conducted myself, allowed it to be an opportunity to grow, and most importantly, continued to be a great father to my children.
My next goal is to heal from this experience and apply what I've learned to my future relationships. Over time, I must forgive STBX so that I can move forward with my life.
I also agree that my relationship with XW going forward needs to be restricted to co-parenting only.
I must forgive STBX so that I can move forward with my life.
I also agree that my relationship with XW going forward needs to be restricted to co-parenting only.
No real comments - just saw the bolded as interesting.
Thinking of you this week, buddy.
Hope you got your friend's "friend's" number
No real comments - just saw the bolded as interesting.
AZ,
Haha. Yeah, that's pretty revealing, right? Must be my subconscious slowly coming to realizations.
Hope you got your friend's "friend's" number
I'm pretty sure I know what you are referring to here. Good memory!
Good work Defacto. Life goes on.
Through your growth, she is now the fool, which was the goal all along.
Well done Defacto, you're in a tough spot but making the absolute best of it. Healing gets to happen on your terms now which is a powerful statement to own.
Sending you strength.
PP
Thanks Mahhhty and PP!
Quick question. As I was hiking yesterday, I thought of sending XW an email once D was final.
Here is what I came up with:
XW,
Thank you for the last decade. I will always look back fondly on the positive memories from our time together. And, I will always view our beautiful children as the physical manifestation of the goodness from our relationship. I have no doubt that we will work together to guide our children to adulthood. As we both navigate this new stage of our lives, I will respect your privacy and I humbly ask that you respect mine. I truly wish you happiness and fulfillment in all of your future endeavors.
With care,
Defacto
Thoughts? I'm not sure what purpose it serves other than provide closure.
Maybe I just keep it to myself.
Defacto,
Have been in and out of your thread so I would not know how to answer this. I do want to say that our timeline and ages are very similar. You seem to be way abead of me in acceptance.
The letter sounds nice. Is it truly what you want and intend to do?
WhyUs,
You know, to be honest, I guess my intent would be to make sure XW knows that I am okay with D and am moving on. On some level, I feel like the email is an attempt to solicit some kind of reaction from XW.
So, yeah, I probably shouldn't send it. Looks like you helped me answer my own question.
Draft your letter. Then wait X number of months. Then give it to her.
Responding now is similar to a form of pursuit. Draft something you firmly believe in and then when the smoke clears give it to her.
For an example of the power a letter can have, check out Crimson's threads. It was the ice breaker required to start "courting" again. However, I think you should be mostly detached at the point of sending, and fully understand that there is no guarantees.
I guess my intent would be to make sure XW knows that I am okay with D and am moving on.
I would think that your actions to date already show this. What added purpose does the letter serve?
I would say no to the letter - unless you write it to yourself and put it in a drawer - and yes to showing you are moving on (which I think you are doing already.)
Sometimes doing nothing is the best option I think.
Take care xx
I would think that your actions to date already show this. What added purpose does the letter serve?
You are exactly right. No meaningful purpose at all.
Agree on not sending the letter. Also agree on co-parenting only relationship for now. Hanging out with XW and and being friends may be possible somewhere down the road. I would put that on the back burner until you know you're fully detached and moving on, which may take some time. At that point, you can decide whether you want more than a co-parenting relationship with XW, which would come with it's own set of benefits and drawbacks.
Hey gang,
Everything is great over here. But, I'm a little confused to be honest. XW hasn't said a thing about the D. No big deal but this isn't consistent for her. So I don't know if I'm divorced yet. I certainly haven't brought it up.
On another note, I purchased myself a Prince Charming costume to wear to d4's birthday party on Saturday.
D
Please tell me the Prince Charming outfit is Adam and the ants aka the 80's pop band. Now that would be cool.
D
Please tell me the Prince Charming outfit is Adam and the ants aka the 80's pop band. Now that would be cool.
Man, I wish I would've thought of that. It was more of an impulse purchase.
Hello all,
D4's birthday party was a giant success. It was great to see d4 have so much fun with her friends. D4 was so surprised when I walked out in my Prince Charming costume. Things went smoothly with XW throughout the party.
In the afternoon, XW calls me from the beach to tell me that she is sad because she misses our family. I asked if she wanted to talk about it. She said yes. XW saw some families together at the beach and she said she is afraid she will never have that again. XW then states that she knows I will have that again in a second. I respond by saying that it takes a while to find happiness. I admit that I miss our family too especially on days like today. We talk for a few more minutes and then I wish her a good day.
I still don't know if I'm divorced LOL. I checked the court website and it shows it as pending. I just keep on keeping on. I feel that I am getting better at viewing XW as a closed chapter but conversations like today still impact me emotionally.
Great job on the party Defacto, especially in light of your sitch.
I've come to the conclusion that all relationships are just weird, and divorces are no different. It sounds like your W definitely misses your family, as do you. Yet she calls you, the person she left to talk about it. There's something to that.
Had lunch with a friend who's been divorced for six years, and he said that his wife called him at 2am the week before to say she had anxiety. He asked why she wasn't calling her bf (the guy she left him for) and she said she'd rather talk to him! Crazy making.
Such is life. All you can do is what you're doing, moving forward. Your XW may call you and tell the you the same thing long after the D is final. It's hard to feel the "half pull", the "I miss our family buuuut, I'm still not stopping the D". I had the same thing with my STBXW asking me to dinner the other night. All you can do is try to shake it off and chalk it up as part of the process.
PP
PP,
Great insight, as usual. There will always be nuances in my dealings with XW. I just need to keep doing my thang and not worry about her one bit. Whether I'm D or not D doesn't really change anything until I'm ready to begin dating again anyway.
Just catching up on your sitch.
Hugs
V
Hey all,
I know it's been a few weeks so I just wanted to say hello. I'm doing fantastic! Don't think XW has finalized D yet but I will no longer live in limbo and uncertainty. I have moved on and it feels great!
On a funny side note, XW called me in a huff last night, asking for details about my meeting with OM's W from over six months ago. XW wanted to know if OM's W mentioned if there were other mistresses. Hilarious!
Anyway, I hope everybody is well. I will make a concerted effort to drop by more often.
Was thinking of you yesterday during my practice time. I am trying to learn the new X ambassadors tune, Renegade. Really awesome sound on the acoustic guitar. I hadn't seen anything from you so I am glad you posted.
Hi Defacto, I'm pleased to hear from you and glad you are doing so well. Hmm, so your XW doesn't believe OM was exclusive with her....there's a surprise...
Anyway - good for you with the PMA and have a great weekend xx
Wow. She is wondering if other man is faithful to her. Never saw that coming--not.
Def,
You sound great. Happy for you. It seems like you have a healthy R with your W right now. You are thriving on your own and you have freed her to deal with her own issues (whatever those may be!!).
RAI
Good to hear you're doing so well Defacto, thanks for the update.
Thanks for all the support gang! I really appreciate the solidarity around here.
Just wanted to drop by to let everybody know that the date has finally been set for the final hearing for the D.
On a related note, XW asked me if I wanted to have drinks last Saturday. I told her that I already had plans. The beat goes on...
Good to hear your doing so well D. I'm about 3 steps behind you my friend.
At 8:45am this morning, my XW attended the final hearing for the dissolution of our 7 marriage. And I have no reason to believe that she did not sign the paperwork.
While this past year has been devastating on all accounts, I have taken the opportunity to reevaluate my life, my flaws, and my future to make the changes I wanted to make. I have forgiven my XW for her transgressions (and I have forgiven myself for my many mistakes) for no other reason than it's what's required to move on to my next chapter.
On a personal level, I decided to begin dating about a month ago. After a couple of dates with different women, I met a woman who genuinely excites me. We have been exclusive for a few weeks now and I already have been applying the things I learned to this new relationship.
I want to thank everyone who helped guide me to this point. I know the journey isn't over but I couldn't have made it this far without all the vets and well wishers. I'll see ya around...
"I'm a street walkin' cheetah with a heart full of napalm."
- Iggy Pop
High five, bud.
After 7-8 months of walking this road together, I think we're gonna be OK.
You've got this.
- Dex
Happy New Year everyone! It's been a spell but I just want to check in.
It's been over a month since D finalized. It's been a few months since I started dating. Even though it's extremely early, I'm very excited about my current relationship but I know this isn't a dating forum. Things are just going really well with me right now. I actually had a personal revelation on the way to work the other day when out of the blue I told myself how happy I was.
My interactions with XW are probably the least stressful for me since pre-BD. I just don't feel like I need to protect myself emotionally with XW anymore. She knows I'm dating and actually said that she was really happy for me.
But, from time to time XW will say that she misses me. She even called the other day to tell me that she started thinking about our honeymoon and got sad. I know this is normal for folks when they're dealing with a loss. I think I allowed myself adequate time to grieve the loss of my MR but it does still effect me a little when she says things like this. I would describe the feeling like the way you miss the familiarity of an old friend.
Does anyone have a good example for a response to my XW when she says these things for a fellow at this stage of the journey?
I advise anyone and everyone in your situation to take at least 1 year off from any and all communications with their ex wayward spouse.
It's the most healthy thing to do.
I mean look at this situation where your ex-wife is pouring out fake feelings toward you and giving you crocodile tears. It's just so inappropriate and hurtful.
The longer you stay attached to her the longer you will stay attached to her. It'll make any and all your future relationships all that more difficult.
IF she really wanted to reconcile she'd know the requirements (I presume you told her long ago) so until then - don't allow her to speak to you really at all. If she has to say something about the kids text you. If she abuses text - go to email and have someone neutral screen your emails to take out personal statements.
YOU MATTER - protect your own recovery and emotional health.
How about you respond saying 'Your feelings are really none of my business".
GB,
It's great to hear from you old friend. I thank you for all of your sage advice this past year. I would never have been able to arrive to this point without your help. Let me know when you are in town so we can grab a beer.
And, you are 100% correct. I do matter. My kids matter. And I have finally begun to truly live out this realization. I feel great and I am excited about my future. I find myself looking at my kids and just smiling all the time.
I wish it were feasible to just restrict contact with my XW to text or email. However, with two young children and a constantly evolving custody schedule due to work, we sometimes need to talk on the phone to sort through the day to day items (kids stuff mainly). I don't mind it though because my XW really has no impact on my wellbeing anymore. But I'd like to remain tactful. It just felt a bit awkward to reply to XW saying she missed me with an "Okay, well have a good night." I don't really have a reason to be adversarial to her now as we are both free to go on about our lives.
Hey D, good to hear from you man. You sound like you're in a good place. I look at you as a place where I want to be. And I'm getting there. It's working.
Well done that man.
As for the EXW's comments. I'm not really sure what you can do there. GB gives good advice but I also get that you need to speak to her. I'm fortunate that I very rarely need to speak to mine directly and all communications are electronic. I don't get the 'I miss you' type convo's but she is trying to friend zone me. I tip toe around it. I'm thinking of becoming a politician;-)
Good to hear from you again.
Hi Defacto, others have given you good advice already, but perhaps when she says stuff like this - you could just reply, Ahh, thanks. (Pause.) Well, you take care & I'll see you Tuesday.
Truly, I agree with GB, if your W wanted something to change, she could say so. I'm guessing from all that has happened in your sitch (like many of ours...mine included) it would take a great deal more than this for you to break your stride. So, until or unless, I think it's appropriate, pleasant and generally empathetic murmurings like above - then off you go.
Take care Defacto & glad to hear the 'street walkin' cheetah' still has napalm in his pocket!! Xx
You could say it more generically like:
"ahhh, thanks doll, but that's really not my business anymore"
Or expand - For awhile those statements really hurt me because I hoped they were true, then they made me angry because I knew they weren't true and now they are just becoming pathetic examples of your inability to truly have empathy or any feelings at all. It's becoming sad, predictable and pitiful and I'd just prefer you keep it to yourself.
I have no idea how to "let you know I'm in town". I might get to your area around spring break and could meet you but I don't know if and when I'll actually be there and you probably won't be reading and posting much by that time. Maybe you could just indicate to Cadet you'd be fine exchanging emails with me and Rich can hook us up??? There's also some kind of alt here but no one has invited me to it....yet.
Please start a new thread.
Just wanted to stop by and say hi! No real advice but I'm glad to see/hear you're doing so well. Although this may not have been what you thought you wanted in the beginning, you came out ahead on the other side!
I will continue with my constant advice I've always given you. I understand it is not feasible or good for the kids to have no contact but I bet you can keep the phone conversations to emergencies and short and sweet.
Your wife is a fool! Cheers!