I received Divorce Remedy in the mail today. I waited until my kids were in bed to start reading. My W is working overnight.
I was struck by the section on "well meaning friends and family", as it seems all of W friends are influencing her to leave me. She has became extra close to her sister in the last month and a half. Her sister, mother, and BFF's were the first to know that she was unhappy. I found out 2 weeks after her sister.
She has distanced herself more and more from me as time has passed, especially after my meltdown this last Sunday in which I broke most, if not all, of the 37 rules (my second meltdown in 5 weeks). My attempts to get her to talk to me about what is going on and how she feels have both backfired big time.
She is off tomorrow and I will be home after 5pm. My D:13 informed me that W told her that she is going to stay at her mom's house tomorrow night. Obviously, this is to avoid me and avoid talk. Since Sunday, I have been giving her space. Her working Monday and Tuesday overnight has certainly helped with giving her space and time. I have processed Sunday over and over again. I realize my mistakes and hope to not repeat them. Maybe her staying away is best right now. I would not leave the house as she wanted. I instead told her she should leave, since she is the unhappy spouse. I have not given up the master bedroom. She has either been working overnights, I work one overnight a week out of town, and she has either stayed at her sister's house or her BFF's (last weekend). We really have not spent any alone time in the last 5 weeks. When the kids are around, we seem to get along superficially, although she definitely has an iron clad wall built up. She has tremendous will power and has not budged one bit. No sign of affection, emotion (except she did cry on Sunday when I told her she needs to be the one to leave the house and when we talked to the kids to let them know we are having problems with our marriage), wanting to talk, wanting to work on it.
My thread "A Few Questions from a Newbie" dives into the mistakes I have been making.
I didn't make it too far tonight into the book, so perhaps my question will be answered as I get deeper into the book.
What do I do about the influence her friends and family have on her wanting to leave? I am 100% confident that they are only hearing her narrative about how unhappy she is, how I made her feel that way and feel they are telling her to leave me to be happy. In my two meltdowns, which were started as attempts to get her to talk and open up to me, I let her know that I thought divorce would make more conflict, upset the children's lives, our lives, and would result in no one being truly happy. I believe she has her mind made up to leave me as she can only say she doesn't want to work on our R, "is done", doesn't love me, is not attracted to me, doesn't feel intimate towards me. She can only bring up negatives when we talk about our marital history (I realize trying to bring up happy moments is breaking one of the 37 rules, but I went ahead and made the mistake in both meltdowns).
Any advice on dealing with the friends and family issue? Before finding this forum, I was talking to her sister. Her sister was being supportive for the first week - telling me to tell her to love her (even if she doesn't say it back...keep telling her), tell her I am here for her, tell her it is something we can work on, be supportive, give her time and space, etc. Her sister will not talk to me now. Won't answer texts or calls. I know it is recommended to not contact her friends and family now. But still, I would like to tell her sister (her biggest influence) my side of what is going on.
In my thread, it was suggested that I just stop talking altogether about any issues. I know I am supposed to wait for her to talk, but I am feeling her get farther away.
Any advice for where I am at right now?
Do nothing. Even if you somehow were able to convince SIL that D is a bad idea - as soon as she starts telling that to your W, your W will cut HER out. And blame YOU for it.
Your W isn't going to listen to anyone with a viewpoint different from hers. There's just no point in bringing it up with her friends/family.
Glad to hear you received the book. Stick with it.
Good job on not leaving the house or bedroom.
What do I do about the influence her friends and family have on her wanting to leave? I am 100% confident that they are only hearing her narrative about how unhappy she is, how I made her feel that way and feel they are telling her to leave me to be happy.
You can't "make" her feel a certain way about you or anyone else. There really isn't anything you can do about other people and their influences on her. That goes under the category entitled "Things I Cannot Control". Don't try to talk to any of those friends or family, b/c it just makes you look desperate and controlling. They will tell her everything you say. She'll take it as you going behind her back and even "interfering".
It is natural for you to want to offset their influence by trying to reason with her. A WW is not logical and you can't reason with crazy.
In my two meltdowns, which were started as attempts to get her to talk and open up to me, I let her know that I thought divorce would make more conflict, upset the children's lives, our lives, and would result in no one being truly happy. I believe she has her mind made up to leave me as she can only say she doesn't want to work on our R, "is done", doesn't love me, is not attracted to me, doesn't feel intimate towards me. She can only bring up negatives when we talk about our marital history I realize trying to bring up happy moments is breaking one of the 37 rules, but I went ahead and made the mistake in both meltdowns).
Are you convinced now, that it doesn't work?
Any advice on dealing with the friends and family issue? Before finding this forum, I was talking to her sister. Her sister was being supportive for the first week - telling me to tell her to love her (even if she doesn't say it back...keep telling her), tell her I am here for her, tell her it is something we can work on, be supportive, give her time and space, etc. Her sister will not talk to me now. Won't answer texts or calls. I know it is recommended to not contact her friends and family now. But still, I would like to tell her sister (her biggest influence) my side of what is going on.
Notice that everything her sister has advised is totally opposite of what MWD advises. Which ones are the experts? Even if her sister is on your side, at the end of the day......this her
sister. There is a reason for the old saying about blood being thicker than water.
In my thread, it was suggested that I just stop talking altogether about any issues. I know I am supposed to wait for her to talk, but I am feeling her get farther away.
In most of these quotes, you are saying that you "know" you shouldn't but you "feel" you want to do it anyway. So, you are allowing your feelings to dictate and guide your actions. You have not accepted the fact you can't change a darn thing by talking your way out of it. You think you can still use your mouth to fix her, fix her sister, fix her friends, and fix your M. You are basically asking us how you can make them listen to your mouth. It won't work. Many, many people before you have tried to prove DBing wrong, by doing it their own way. They did not succeed, and then would come back and ask for help......after royally making things much worse. I hope you are not going to join those ranks.
In all fairness, your reactions are very common. The sooner you make up your mind that it's your actions and not your words that have the influence, the sooner you will see positive results in your life.
Great feedback! This is why I am here and continue to seek help. Obviously, the way I have been conducting myself the last 18 years with my W has been problematic.
I need to control my emotions. Easier said than done for me.
I wonder if I should be put on meds for my anxiety? I feel stressed constantly and it is like poison running through my veins.
I am on my way home from work. I am going to read the rules again before entering the house. My D:13 told me yesterday that W is styling night at her mom's house.
I want to try to validate her feelings when she tells me.
This is an area that I know I have done poorly in - being empathetic and listening without reacting or injecting what I want. I want to to stay home, even though time and space is what she obviously needs and/or wants. She does not want to be around me. When she wants to do something I don't want her to do, I need to remain calm.
So, she will say bluntly "I am going to stay at my mom's tonight".
Me - I can see how having some time and space away would help you feel better.
That would be my 180. Instead of trying to talk her in to staying.
Any feedback here?
Yes WW, give my regards to your mom, have a peaceful evening. Then busy yourself as if this is every day.
If WW tries to trigger you, move away and just repeat to yourself, "let WW go" and say "We can have this discussion another time, as its important to you WW, I would like to give you my full attention and time"
'Some'space- sounds like an instruction and just a tad controlling, I know you mean to validate. Try Wonka's validation cheat thread see Cadets opening homework.
Less is more.
V
In this moment, your wife at her moms, you at home with your children and your new book seem like a peaceful evening. Play with your kids then read your book. Go for the trifecta and get a good nights sleep.
^^^^^ This.
And the only thing you can do on well-meaning friends and family is to work on yourself. If they see that you don't fit with the W's depiction of you, they may start to not worsen this dynamic. That's a big if. You work on your issues for other reasons. That it may have an impact on this other would just be a tiny bonus. We all want to disrupt this problem. If we knew how, we'd post it as a sticky. Trust us. Just focus on what you have control over.
Good luck.
Eric, I learned that the best approach with In laws and H's friends is to stay out of it as much as possible. No calls, no emails, nothing. When I do interact with them I am pleasant, polite, and easy going. Like a casual acquaintance. No expectations, no confidences, nothing personal.
I did have a day with H's friend and all of our kids (no H) and I didn't bring up H or any problems at all. Not once. It was all easy and light.
I should tell you that it took me 3 months to figure this out, and my sitch was very heated in that my in laws were actively encouraging H to leave me. So it was very hard for me to keep quiet, but staying out of it has actually helped.
Well the night did not go as expected. I was thinking that I would get home from work and then take my son to his football mentor day/picture day/pizza party. My wife and daughter also decided to go, which I was not expecting. I realize W did this to support my son and not to go with me. Our house is located about 3/4 of a mile from the high school where the party was. She chose to drive separate. I drove my son and she drove my daughter. Awkward, but just another example of how good she is at keeping a wall up and keeping distance between us. Won't even ride in the same car as me.
The event was about an hour and half long. We were able to talk casually a little about S and enrolling him in wrestling, talking about schedule of football practice/games and that I would only be able to take him to preseason wrestling once a week, and we bought a few items for the kids at the event (shirts).
She left with D:13 after the picture portion of mentor day. They went school shopping. I did not ask if she was coming home or staying with her mom with D:13. I did not ask anything, just said have fun shopping.
After mentor day, I mowed, did dishes, and did some laundry. Then me and my S:8 went for a 2 mile run. Came home from run and no sign of daughter and W. It was already dark and about 9:30pm. Checked phone and no messages. So, assuming they are staying at MIL.
Took shower and when I came out they were home. I kept to following the rules. I truly had a good day and was displaying a good mood. Only talking to W when she addressed me. Focusing on kids. We watched Jimmy Fallon and sent the kids to bed. She prepared the couch to sleep on it. I slipped a little in the rules department and said to her you don't have to sleep on the couch. She said I want to. I said OK. I then went to my MB and pretty much so passed out. I have been running on 3-4 hours of sleep for 5 weeks now. Last night I got 6-1/2.
I am supposed to go out of town for my overnight (I am in outside sales). I think I am going to come home instead. I want to go to my son's football practice and I want to spend some more time around the household. However, I think this is not following the rules of detachment.
In regards to the comments on family, I have not contacted my SIL or BIL for at least 3 weeks, maybe 4 weeks. I stopped trying when they stopped returning my calls and messages. I have not tried to contact her friends at all. Her mom would certainly answer my calls. However, I am not contacting her either. I was just wondering if there was a way to counteract their influence. They are just trying to be supportive and loving of her. They are only getting her side of the story. I just feel as though they are giving her bad advice. Well, bad advice for our M. They want her to be happy. I want her to be happy as well.
Eric, you are doing great. The only way I can figure out to counteract the negative influence of others is to just hold my head up high and not give them any reason to lash out at me. I am trying to be pleasant and easy to be around, hoping that my H will feel safe and good around me. That is all I can do. Whenever I am tempted to do something else, I pray, turn on music, play with my kids, do something to calm myself down and get my thoughts off that which I cannot control.
You are in the right place, you are doing the right things. It is hard we get it. Keep it up, you will be ok.
I was just wondering if there was a way to counteract their influence. They are just trying to be supportive and loving of her. They are only getting her side of the story.
I just feel as though they are giving her bad advice.
You received several responses to this question, and they were all in agreement that you should not interfere with her family. You are wanting to control what is said to her, and you can't do it. They have a right to say whatever they want to tell her.
You are still allowing your feelings to lead you. You don't really know what is being said to her. Even if you were advised to counteract their influence, how could you when you don't even know what's been said?
The point is to stop fretting over her friends and family and what they could be saying to influence her. Focus on you being a better man. That is the best prescription to counteract any bad influence. Let her see the actual proof in your actions.
Stay away from contacting family and friends. It will give you nothing but grief and will drag the pain out even longer.
Huddy - thanks! I have been following that advice.
Photoka and sandi - thanks as well. I am listening to you all. It is giving me strength. I am getting stronger.
Last December my wife lived a psychotic event with hallucinations that lasted for one week.
I later found out that the God-Mother of my oldest son, which I knew for more than 10 years and considered my friend, was the immediate cause of such event (of course there were other causes, my past behaviour being the most important).
I work in a different town from the one my family lives in. The God-Mother was alone with my W in our living room, went to my computer and asked my W: you see this cable (she showed one of the cables connected to the computer)? It's connect to his work and he can follow everything you do at the computer. This just cracked something inside my W's head.
My W is now fully recovered, but has other friends she respects very much telling her to get divorcedbecause a husband who spies his wife does not show any respect to the spouse.
I have come to the conclusion that a) you cannot do anything about it, apart from becoming aware of who are your friends; b) ultimately, it is my W's choice to listen to her friends and follow their advises. She might be influenced by them, but she still is capable of taking her own decisions.
I apologise in advance, I don't want to hijack the thread. I was just telling the OP about my experience and conclusions regarding well-meaning friends.
Answering your question, Vanilla, I had been. I had installed a keylogger two months before that never worked. In December I had already stopped any spying. And obviously the cable story (it would have to be a 40km-long cable) was sheer whickness of the God-mother.
Story here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2560983#Post2560983
I missed the key logger whenI read your threads apologies. I will take this to your thread
Eric, you are doing well, gently
V
To give a slightly different slant to your main point EricT, my grown up son, is point blank refusing to talk to my W. He simply doesn't see the point as he is really disappointed and angry at her antics as it has had such an impact on the family as a whole, with her as the only beneficiary (although that's debateable).
Over the last few months, I've: had a quiet word, in email form CCing my W on the dialogue, been very direct almost angry with him to make contact with my W, as his behaviour is not necessarily helping me as it's another thing used against me, it's all my fault as she didn't get the chance to put her side across, tell him what an a$$, I really am blah, blah, blah. The MIL and SIL have also had face to face conversations with him (without me in the room, so they could say what they liked) on the subject of him speaking with his mother.
Do you think any of it's made any difference? To save any suspense, the answer is no.
So do you really think that you speaking with any friends or family will make any difference?
The sad reality is it'll probably make things worse and be used as ammunition against you, maybe even in the D proceedings.
Leave them alone and focus on yourself, you are the only person you can work on and change, after all it's you alone in the DB process, the others get the benefits of your efforts, not the other way around.
When you say "leave them alone", I think it is OK to maintain some dialogue with the inlaws. My FIL/MIL are still my kid's grandparents, so Id like to be on good terms with them. But Im not going to discuss anything related to W or my M with them. Just light, breezy conversation.
You are right Azzork, don't go out of your way to engage with them, don't ignore them either (let them come to you) and always be friendly but never discuss anything R oriented.
Frankly, what others think is down to them. We can't mind read each will have their own view point.
They may not even voice initially. Be friendly, no obsequious behaviour or words, thankful for grandparenting, grateful for involvement. Show up as the best caring dad you can be. It's enough. They can think as they will.
The truth will out anyway.
Be still, enjoy your children.
V
Hey Eric. Are you still with us?