Hi All,
I'm afraid I may have found this site a little late, or a lot late. I'm off to church soon so don't have time to write the whole story. Long and short is my wife of 16 years dropped the bomb at the end of May and left with our 3 daughters. We had a great R and M for the vast most part. Last August we had our first real fight where I left for a few days. We went to counseling and worked it out. I took the counseling very seriously and worked hard on our M. I did a lot more around the house, told W I loved her, she was beautiful often, lots of nice little gifts all the time, checked in with her to make sure everything was OK. She was trying harder as well. Over time we both agreed our M was better and family life was much better. Fast forward to this last May, all that time without really even a disagreement and one morning we had a misunderstanding. W got upset and left for work, we didn't talk for a few days mostly due to a business trip. When I got back she dropped the bomb.
I did all the wrong things in hindsight. Told her we cant do this to our family and kids, what about finance, college, weddings, we need each other. Of course that pushed her away. It started out as maybe a trial separation but by now it is full blown and she is furious, wont even really talk to me. Her reasoning is we don't own our own house and when she looked at our investments it was no where near where she thought it should be although still significant.
Currently she is on a vacation for one month with our girls returning on Aug 30. I have not communicated with W at all but I have been skyping with girls every few days.
I need help! I love my wife dearly, am a totally dedicated family man, love my kids more than anything and now feel totally alone and helpless. I will post more details later. I thought I was in a loving relationship with a dedicated wife. She even wrote me a nice long email in April, 3 weeks before the bomb saying how she was sorry for neglecting me lately because she had medical problems and our daughter had bad medical probs as well, she went on to say how thankful she was for me and how I took care of everything and the other 2 kids while she was wrapped up in herself and our other daughter and how she loved me so much. Then the bomb. Is there anything I can do?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
GAL! Read up on it, take action and start doing it! Believe me, it's hard, it's tough sometimes but GAL saved my life and many relationships come full circle.
I always liked the analogy of "A starved dog doesn't get fed". Now, think of it like this. You hear a scratch at your back door and there is an emancipated, pathetic dog standing there. What is your instinct to do? Now, similar situation except there is a beautiful, purebred dog standing there. Is your reaction going to be different?
Right now, begging, pleading, etc is making you look like the "starved dog". Show her that you can be the well-fed dog and watch how quickly things can change (for you and her).
Yes, I can see that I am a starved dog. It really hurts because a few short weeks ago I was a thoroughbred that everyone loved, respected and in return looked after everyone with pride. I will get busy reading.
Hang in there Duke help is on its way. I am here just like you. There are good people here with solid advice. Just wanted to say hi and let you know your not alone.
Duke
This is indeed a place where many find themselves and you ally we not alone you will be with good friends
There are some very experienced vets here and their advice will really help
This is not going to be easy but you will come through this
My thoughts are with you
Ghost
Hi Duke. Welcome to our family. Sorry you are going through this experience. If you will read Divorce Remedy, it will encourage you and also give you the principles behind this board.
Her reasoning is we don't own our own house and when she looked at our investments it was no where near where she thought it should be although still significant.
I've been around for a while, and have heard of various reasons, but I think this may be a new one. Although security is important to women, most of us can feel secure and not necessarily be a home owner. Some of us are not fortunate enough to have
any investments. As a woman, I find it a little suspicious. Usually, when our emotional needs are being met by the man we love, we can deal with the other things. However, there's always room for the strange bird, I guess. Has she pushed and/or complained about this over the years?
Wow, thanks all. We both agreed that we had a great M and R together. Our kids are great. Even the disagreement that we had the week before the bomb she told me "please lets not do this (fight), things have been going so great... please". I left for my 3 day biz trip, came back and things were very strange. We texted back and forth and next thing I knew I got the "why don't we separate text". She definitely has not been the same wife I have always enjoyed for about the last year. Last August we had a disagreement and she seemed very impatient and short with it. We ended up in counseling for a couple weeks and got back together. After that she had a very continued stressful year. She had a bad gallbladder emergency surgery with a large scar, our daughter had many serious issues, concussions, stomach infections, tonsils infected and removed... lots of stress for my wife all year and then this. I found out she has been taking anti depressants/anxiety pills for at least the last year. Also, she is at the pre-menopause years (45).
She sent me a nice "sorry" email about 3 weeks before the bomb as well saying how sorry she was for neglecting me lately, how she was so wrapped up with he issues and daughters issues and that she felt bad and would make it up to me. Of course, I told her that is what I am there for, to back her up when she needs me. She really appreciated that.
I just want my old loving wife back. I will do anything.
Hi Sandi,
W has told me and several others (her mom, friends) that no house owned for 16 years, investments no where near where she thought they should be are the reasons - security.
She hit her limit for waiting. We did discuss it regularly and it was clear that is what she wanted but she didn't push it too hard. She seemed on board with our lifestyle choice.
She added a few other reasons such as when we fight (which was very rarely, every 1.5 to 2 years) that I would get withdrawn and not talk. That drove her nuts. I would explain that it was better than fighting in front of the kids. We worked out a plan that I would say what was bothering me and ask for a few hours to be quiet and then we would discuss when we were both calm.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
There is no chance of that at this point. W and kids are on holiday until the 30th of Aug. I haven't communicated with her since the 2nd of August. Does that count of going dark? I do Skype with the kids regularly. She has found out I have been communicating with an mutual close friend and was pretty mad about it. The friend contacted me. Right after that she closed off her facebook from our home email. I am afraid that she will rush ahead with mediation once she gets back and before she goes back to work the week after. She hasn't confirmed an appointment but said she was wanting to set one up. Do I have a chance of saving this?
What was the "disagreement" that led to the arguments last year and now? The more details you give the better.
General everyday disagreements usually. One a few years ago started with her telling me how to drive on a busy highway, simple things. These ended up in me withdrawing and being quiet once every 1.5 to 2 years. Last August we had a doozy and the biggest one ever by far. It was a simple misunderstanding that resulted in me saying to her " an example of how I am a low priority" she lost it on me in front of the kids and unleashed some obvious pent up frustration. We went to counseling after this since it was very important to both of us. I addressed all the issues and worked hard on our R up until the BD at the end of May. It was mostly around helping around the house, doing more with her, communicating better.
I just had a nice half hour Skype with my daughters. They are in Holland until the 30th. I told them that I have been working out, reading, going to church and playing golf with a mutual friend that my wife respects a lot. The going to church one will be a surprise to my wife. I think she may have been listening in the background or will be told by the girls. My wife has a respect for the church and mass but we never went too often. I genuinely wanted to go recently. Hopefully it gets back to her and she sees a positive change. I don't know...
Something seems to be missing.
"ended up in me withdrawing and being quiet once every 1.5 to 2 years."
This sounds like you're leaving something out. I don't know any couple that has that few disagreements.
"It was a simple misunderstanding that resulted in me saying to her " an example of how I am a low priority" she lost it on me in front of the kids and unleashed some obvious pent up frustration."
What do you mean by a "simple" misunderstanding. It obviously wasn't simple to her.
"It was mostly around helping around the house, doing more with her, communicating better."
Can you elaborate? What specifically were you told to work on?
Something seems to be missing.
"ended up in me withdrawing and being quiet once every 1.5 to 2 years."
This sounds like you're leaving something out. I don't know any couple that has that few disagreements.
We very rarely fought, we would have simple disagreements every now and then but we either laughed them off or one of us would give in knowing the other would give in on the next one - very reciprocal. We agreed on most stuff anyways and didn't sweat the little stuff.
"It was a simple misunderstanding that resulted in me saying to her " an example of how I am a low priority" she lost it on me in front of the kids and unleashed some obvious pent up frustration."
What do you mean by a "simple" misunderstanding. It obviously wasn't simple to her.
We were at a hotel, I wanted to walk to a store with the family before it closed in 20 mins, wife and 2 daughters went upstairs me and other daughter waited downstairs. I thought they were going to join us she thought we were going on our own. I waited downstairs until the store closed then went upstairs a little disappointed and made the comment.
"It was mostly around helping around the house, doing more with her, communicating better."
Can you elaborate? What specifically were you told to work on?
The C was quite good. He met with us separately then together. He said that our issues were very simple and that we agreed on most things and were on the same plane, very well matched. He said "you are the easiest couple that I have seen in a long time" based on what we each had told him and how it all matched up. I took it very seriously. He gave us each a list of things to think about and work on. My things were to communicate better, not "sulk" but rather say "Im not happy about something, I don't want to talk about it now but how about in 2 hours we go for a walk and discuss" This type of thing rarely got to this point - again, maybe once every year to 2 years. Also, little things like working together around the house not one at a time - ie cleaning up after dinner together, making lunches together. I took on all the laundry so she could be with the girls as well. I started telling her I loved her more, she was beautiful more, I "checked in" regularly to make sure it was all going ok and if there was anything I could work on.
"I waited downstairs until the store closed then went upstairs a little disappointed and made the comment."
Okay and when you said she went off on you. What did she say?
I should add that after a few months of us getting back together I started to feel that I was the only one working and changing. She had a lot of issues to deal with - her gallbladder ongoing problems and emerg surgery that left a big scar, our daughters health issues that were very concerning, concussion, infection... this all lasted from August 2014 to April 2015 - then the bomb in May. I found out she has been depressed or anxious because I found 2 different anti depress/anxiety meds prescribed from last year to as recent as July.
She went off basically yelling "Im tired of you saying no one appreciates you, I am busy with 3 kids, I work too (part time), I do a lot of work around the house, the world doesn't revolve around you, you have more free time than most husbands" along those lines.
W is out of the country with our 3 kids until Aug 30 from Aug 2. I have not contacted her at all or asked the kids about her. Would this be considered going dark? I have told the kids I am very busy going out, working out, golfing and going to church which I am sure she will be curious about.
Duke keep being strong and focus on you
This is something that I should have enlisted a while ago
I wish I knew the answer some of the breakups seem so easy to fix if each person was just able to work just a little bit with each other
I hope you manage to sort things out
Take care my friend
Ghost
Thanks Ghost
I spoke with a mutual friend last night who said that she was talking with w when this all went down. She said that w made the decision after she looked at our investments, it was the final straw she said. This really [censored]. I miss her so much. I have not spoke with her at all for 15 days now, no communication. When I Skype with my kids she goes outside. The hardest part is how quickly she turned to cold and heartless after being so caring. I really wish I could fix this.
Bad day folks, I don't know why really. I have the option to work from home when I want to so here I am. Wife and kids are on holiday until Aug 30 when the return I am sure she will be pushing hard for legal separation and mediation the first week of Sept. I miss her so much its nuts.
Hello Duke,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
The investments are the last straw? I'm sure many of us are disappointed with how our investments are growing (or not growing) over recent years. You have the gift of time right now, use it wisely!
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thanks Cristy. I feel pretty hopeless right now. I think she is hellbent on the fast track to separation and once she gets back the hammer will fall. I cant really afford coaching but I think its a good idea. Any other advice? I don't want to move on. I am so used to being a great husband and dad I don't know what else to do.
How effective will this 30 days apart with no communication at all with W be?
So my plan is to get some nice new clothes and pick them all up at the airport on the 30th. I will do my best to be upbeat and will be super happy to see them. I plan to have some nice flowers for my girls and may have some for my wife. I am sure there will be lots of hugs and I missed yous. Should I get anything for my wife and hug her at all or wait to see how she is acting? Her mother will probably be there and she is a really negative influence overall. She wont be happy to see me and has already sent an email to W saying I will "probably be butting in" at the airport.
How effective will this 30 days apart with no communication at all with W be?
In general: it took 16 years for your M to get to this point. It isn't going to be repaired in a month. There's no telling what her mood will be. All you can do is keep up with the not pursuing and wait for her to come to you.
I agree Azzork, thank you. I think I am still in the panic stage and would do anything not to lose her and my family. We have a good family friend that W looks up to that has done personal and relationship coaching. She really wants to talk with my W when she gets back, she is convinced this can be fixed or at least not handed over to lawyers. My W found out we spoke and was not happy but the friend told her that it was she that made the contact and wanted to speak about what was going on.
I picked up Divorce Remedy today. I have been spending quite a bit of time on this site looking for similar stories and tidbits of what I can be doing. I have come to the realization that my chances of getting back together are pretty slim but I have to give it my best effort. I feel that my wife basically hates me at this point and I have a long road ahead of me. What are other peoples thoughts on chances overall for most people that come to this site? Its a great support group for sure but there doesn't seem to be a lot of success stories about couples getting back together.
Hi Sandi,
She (we) have waited a long time to get a house, 16 years we have been renting. It has been hard on our family. It has stressed me out and made me a little moody at times. To make it worse I have taken all our non pension money and invested it in funds that have not done well. Sometimes they are way up and sometimes way down. She insisted on looking when they were way down. Usually she just trusted me and let me manage our money. She was a little superstitious about it and never wanted to "jinx" us by asking when she thought it was up and was too freaked out to ask when she thought it was down. It has been a very long and tough road watching the home prices rise relentlessly where we live while watching our investments suffer. We had a minor issue where I didn't talk much for a few days after she left without saying goodbye. It all culminated at the same time and fell down on top of me. She feels like I let her and my family down and that now it is too late for us so she is going off on her own with our kids. Several friends, not on my request, have told her that she is being irrational and making a horrible mistake but that only make her more mad and focussed on leaving. I have made some big financial mistakes and it cost me my family basically.
To me, it sounds as if she feels her trust in you to manage the finances has been betrayed. When you made investment, etc., was it a decision made by the two of you, or did she not wish to even know what you were doing with the money?
This could be a legitimate reason for her leaving, or it could be the smoke screen covering her truer reason. At this point, it's just guess work. Has there ever been an issue over investments in the past? Did you lead her to believe everything was fine and on target for purchasing a home?
As far as how to greet her at the airport, I would suggest you not buy her or her mother any gifts. Be pleasant, friendly, and smile. Do not initiate any hugs, or kisses. Let her lead the affection in the greeting. She may give a half-hearted hug (side by side, or a distance between bodies type of hug). Don't show that it bothers you. She has separated from the MR, so don't go with expectations.
A lot of your actions toward personal changes seem motivated by wanting to impress your W. Try to work on yourself for yourself, and not build expectations of how she'll respond to it.
Hi Sandi,
You are absolutely correct, she feels that she trusted me to manage the finances and I let her down, a lot. I always managed the finances, paid all the bills, did the investing. I had a financial advisor manage 50-60% and I managed the other. I was very aggressive and at times it was way up and others way down. She was always too nervous to look or ask too many questions, she was afraid to "jinx" things. When I did try to show here what I was doing, when things were going well with investments, she would gloss over. At times she was excited about how much we had and was proud of me, others just nervous and didn't want to know. Recently she decided to look into it at a bad time and was upset at the amount. She thinks I gambled with our money and future. I think its always been a simmering issue, she always felt we were waiting for either the housing market to fall or the stocks to go up to the point we could buy a house.
Anytime investments were going well I would tell her and say in another few months we can start looking, then something would always happen and we had to put it on hold.
I make good money and she works 50% time. We were always able to go on lots of nice trips, our kids never wanted for anything. We rented an OK house, had nice cars and never argued about money.
This was just a culmination of a few bad factors all at once 1) disagreement, me going quiet, her leaving without saying goodbye resulting in prolonged period of not talking much
2) her deciding to look into the finances and was not happy
3) the next day she decided to trial separate
4) I panicked and insisted we work it out, chased her
5) it snowballed into full blown legal separation
She is in Europe until the 30th and after that I am sure the mediation will begin. We haven't communicated at all since Aug 2. I am hoping this time apart will allow her to remember the good times and miss me. She did really used to love me.
Its like a switch just went off and she turned into someone totally different. The harder I pursued the worse it got.
At the airport I will dress nice, have gifts for the kids, hug and kiss them but just be nice and smile at wife.
I will offer to pick them all up but I suspect MIL will be there with a scowl on her face because I am "butting in". Wife may not be too happy to see me.
thanks for all your help
I am really curious, what are the typical results after the first 30 days of absolutely no contact. I doubt we have gone 2 days in the last 20 years of no contact. What would normally happen in this situation? What are other peoples experiences?
I am really curious, what are the typical results after the first 30 days of absolutely no contact. I doubt we have gone 2 days in the last 20 years of no contact. What would normally happen in this situation? What are other peoples experiences?
Duke - I think your focus is in the wrong place. The way I see it, there has to be two things happen for any situation to turn around.
1) the fantasy idea that the WAS/WS has of the future has to kinda fall apart. Through family, medical, parenting, AP, whatever issues, SOMETHING or somethings need to happen to show them that the dream world they had in their head is not the actual world.
2) The LBS has to prove that the best option is to return. That they are a different person and that a new M can and will be successful.
From what I can gather, both of those points are critically important. With that said, the no contact is not something that will spur the change, necessarily. I believe that there are many benefits of not having contact, but by itself, it isnt really going to do too much.
In your case, she's on a month long VACATION right now. WITH the kids. It isnt like shes struggling, or lonely, or having problems in the "real world". Im guessing that the no contact actually has very little impact on her.
But there are some other benefits.
1) you arent making things unknowingly worse with pressure on her or talking about your R or the separation or anything.
2) you dont have to see her in "vacation mode"
3) you get some space to be able to live. You get some practice on your own. You get some space to grow.
Hopefully, you are using this time wisely!
I am trying but this is still quite fresh. I am going to the gym, cycling, re-started going to church, talking with family and friends much more... I just miss her so much its crazy.
Any others with input?
What would be your reason for no-contact? I mean you have young children together, you need to talk about them.
Wife and the 3 girls are in Europe for 30 days. I haven't talked to her since Aug 2. Like a forced going dark I guess. I Skype with my girls every 2-3 days and that is great. I have been telling them how busy I am, cycling, going to gym, work, going out with friends and re-started going to church which she will be curious about. I intentionally don't ask about W. She seems to leave the room when we Skype anyways.
Thoughts from anyone? Sandi?
At some point you're going to have to talk to your W about the kids. Are you prepared for that? you could always start softening things by asking your W how the kids are doing.
Well... She said she was going to set up a mediation meeting the first week of Sept. I gave her 2 dates and never heard a word back about it. Today my boss said he wants me to fly to California for a 2-3 day meeting that week. I don't really want to contact W and ask for 2 reasons, I am trying not to contact her at all and I don't want the bad news of a mediation meeting if there is one. Should I just go ahead and book my California meeting since she never got back to me?
Yes go ahead and book your meeting.
Yes go ahead and book your meeting.
What if she has booked a mediator meeting and has not told me?
Then she should have told you. Can they mediate if you are not there?
Without sufficient notice, you have to go on with your job as usual, I would think.
Thanks Sandi
I sent her an email asking if she had set up a meeting with mediator and she said no -that is good. Shae said she would prefer to go the lawyer route -that is bad. I was really hoping that this 30 days apart would have her missing me but it doesn't seem to have done much in that regard. We haven't gone 2 days without talking in 20 years now it's been 20 days and nothing. God I miss her and my old life.
My wife emailed me last night that she wants to go ahead with legal separation and through lawyers, not the mediation route. I was really hoping that the 30 days apart would give her time to reminisce and miss me and what we had. There still is 10 days before she gets back but she sure seems hell bent on legal separation. Any suggestions? I'm trying to be as positive as I can and with the kids when I Skype with them but this is so tough. I love my wife and family so much and would do anything for them.
Duke -
Here's the thing. Your M was over at BD. So...legal separation, mediators, who cares? All that is is the legal way of doing what's already done.
As for this time, a month is truly NOTHING in DB land. Especially a month where she's on an EU vacation WITH the kids. She's not really missing anything right now. So I can't imagine another 10 days having an impact at this point.
So - what awesome things are you doing for Duke in the next 10 days?
Did she say why she wanted to go through lawyers rather than mediation?
Wow Azzork - nothing like being blunt, eh?
I guess you have a few good points here but its tough for me to face it. I know I have to do my best to get past this and be the best me that I can for me and my kids. Its just tough.
I am going to try to get out more and do the things I like, cycling, working out, beach volleyball, church...
Bond,
Yes, she said that she thinks we are too far apart in what we want and would waste time at a mediator or argue. We went to a family mediator to discuss kids time etc and that did not go well. She just vented the entire time. Even the mediator had to calm her down, tell her she was speaking with anger and spite and not being productive.
Wow Azzork - nothing like being blunt, eh?
I guess you have a few good points here but its tough for me to face it. I know I have to do my best to get past this and be the best me that I can for me and my kids. Its just tough.
I am going to try to get out more and do the things I like, cycling, working out, beach volleyball, church...
My point was that the M you remember is already over. Your W isn't going to come running back to be in the same marriage. What we are all trying to do is to work to forge a NEW, improved marriage. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen within a couple of weeks. You read the stitches that turn around and they are usually months of hard work.
With that said, the legal side of it is going to go on one way or another. But in my opinion, it isn't that important. Nothing really changes if you are divorced vs. now. If you think about it, what would really be different for your regular life? For your interactions with your W?
So, you've been in essentially no contact for 3 weeks. What have you worked on for you? What are your goals? What are your 180s? Just leaving her alone isn't enough - you need to actually change to be able to begin work towards that new M.
I'm going to the gym, cycling, v-ball, working harder, bought new clothes, reconnected with friends, had great conversations, started going to church again, have better conversations with kids on Skype... its been 3 weeks since they left for EU but BD was at the end of May. My goal is to be happy. My goal is to get my wife back. My goal is to get my family back. My goal is to never see a lawyers face. My goal is to be an exceptional dad and husband. If we owned a house we wouldn't be here. If our finances were better we wouldn't be here. If I didn't get down at times about both of the above we wouldn't be here.
I'm going to the gym, cycling, v-ball, working harder, bought new clothes, reconnected with friends, had great conversations, started going to church again, have better conversations with kids on Skype... its been 3 weeks since they left for EU but BD was at the end of May.
This is all great GAL stuff! What about on a personal/emotional level?
My goal is to be happy.
OK. How are you measuring this? What steps are you taking to meet your goal?My goal is to get my wife back.
My goal is to get my family back.
My goal is to never see a lawyers face.
It seems like these three are kind of the same. This is the long term goal, then. As MWD writes, this is the hole. So what are your intermediate goals? What are the short term things yo can do so that you can meet this?My goal is to be an exceptional dad and husband.
Great! What does that mean? How are you doing that? If we owned a house we wouldn't be here. If our finances were better we wouldn't be here. If I didn't get down at times about both of the above we wouldn't be here.
Maybe. Or if it werent this, it could be something else. Focus on the things you can control - your goals and your actions!
Thanks Cristy. I feel pretty hopeless right now. I think she is hellbent on the fast track to separation and once she gets back the hammer will fall. I cant really afford coaching but I think its a good idea. Any other advice? I don't want to move on. I am so used to being a great husband and dad I don't know what else to do.
Duke,
This isn't about moving on. It is about moving forward!
There is no quick fix here. It is a roller coaster and will be getting much more real when they return from vacation. Figuring out the details of day to day life with work and kids is a much different situation than vacation mode. You need to really be prepared to follow through on the strategies being recommended.
I highly recommend taking of advantage of the online special for Telephone Coaching. You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our DB coaching program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thought I would add this to my post:
OMG! My wife went from loving, caring, balanced to very cold uncaring and downright mean when confronted. We started to have problems in August 2014 and BD by her at the end of May 2015. Shortly after BD I found a prescription in her name for Lorazapram from earlier in 2014. I googled it and found it was for anxiety and sleep problems. I thought it was strange but remembered that she did mention some trouble sleeping. She continued acting irrational and cold. Two weeks later I found another prescription for Torazodone from July 2015 in her name. I googled that one and found that it was for more severe depression and anxiety! What is going on? She never told me she was depressed or had anxiety and never told me she was taking these meds! Does anyone think that these meds are partly/largely to blame for her severe personality change and going from loving to hating in a year? What can I do? If she goes off these, how long until she is back to normal?
I'm going to the gym, cycling, v-ball, working harder, bought new clothes, reconnected with friends, had great conversations, started going to church again, have better conversations with kids on Skype... its been 3 weeks since they left for EU but BD was at the end of May.
This is all great GAL stuff! What about on a personal/emotional level?
That's a tough one, I am trying to be calm and not let things she says/does get to me or things MIL says or does.My goal is to be happy.
OK. How are you measuring this? [b]Daily changes.What steps are you taking to meet your goal?
Trying to do things that make me happy.My goal is to get my wife back.
My goal is to get my family back.
My goal is to never see a lawyers face.
It seems like these three are kind of the same. This is the long term goal, then. As MWD writes, this is the hole. So what are your intermediate goals? What are the short term things yo can do so that you can meet this? [b]By changing and improving my outlook and GALMy goal is to be an exceptional dad and husband.
Great! What does that mean? How are you doing that? [b]I have to get there first, I know I was already a pretty exceptional husband and dad but there are things I can improve like my moods and temper. If we owned a house we wouldn't be here. If our finances were better we wouldn't be here. If I didn't get down at times about both of the above we wouldn't be here.
Maybe. Or if it werent this, it could be something else. Focus on the things you can control - your goals and your actions!
I'm going to the gym, cycling, v-ball, working harder, bought new clothes, reconnected with friends, had great conversations, started going to church again, have better conversations with kids on Skype... its been 3 weeks since they left for EU but BD was at the end of May. This is all great GAL stuff! What about on a personal/emotional level? That's a tough one, I am trying to be calm and not let things she says/does get to me or things MIL says or does.
Staying calm? Great!
Detachment? Great!
Anything else? For example, you mention below that you want to be an exceptional dad. What kinds of qualities do you feel you were lacking before that you want to improve? Attentiveness? Generosity? Patience? Playfulness? Tenderness? I dont know your parenting style....but just some thought words.
You also talk about being an exceptional husband. What kinds of qualities would that entail? Empathy? Supportiveness? Kindness?
My goal is to be happy. OK. How are you measuring this? Daily changes.
What steps are you taking to meet your goal?Trying to do things that make me happy.
My goal is to get my wife back.
My goal is to get my family back.
My goal is to never see a lawyers face. It seems like these three are kind of the same. This is the long term goal, then. As MWD writes, this is the hole. So what are your intermediate goals? What are the short term things you can do so that you can meet this? By changing and improving my outlook and GAL
My goal is to be an exceptional dad and husband. Great! What does that mean? How are you doing that? I have to get there first, I know I was already a pretty exceptional husband and dad but there are things I can improve like my moods and temper.
This is a start, but I think you need to be more specific. You say you want to be "happy", but what does that mean? How do you KNOW if you are happy or not? What kinds of things do happy people do or say or feel? The best kinds of goals are ones that you can measure. That way you know if you have achieved them!
Im really not trying to be obtuse. Im really trying to help. My thoughts are that if you have a road map laid out, it's easy to follow. If you say "I want to do one solo GAL activity and one GAL activity with my kids every week", then youll know easily if you hit it. If you say, "I want to GAL", how do you know? The more clear your goals are, the easier it is to achieve them.
My recommendation (and of course, take it for what it's worth) is to really think about what you want and how to get there. Its easy to say "I want to save my family" - but its hard to actually do it.
If we owned a house we wouldn't be here. If our finances were better we wouldn't be here. If I didn't get down at times about both of the above we wouldn't be here. Maybe. Or if it werent this, it could be something else. Focus on the things you can control - your goals and your actions! I honestly think that if we had a house things would be very different, W agrees
Again....maybe. Im guessing if you were an "exceptional" husband and an "exceptional" dad, your W would not be thinking of a D regardless of your financial status. I think that if I were to give you a house right now, your W wouldnt change her mind. Everyone is here because of their failings in their marriage. But the only way forward is to really face who you are/were and try to improve upon it for next time.
I am about half way through Divorce Remedy. I re-read many pages as I go. Something I should have read WHILE I was married. After you say "I do" and the Priest says "I now pronounce you husband and wife" he should follow that up with "and here is your copy of Divorce Remedy, READ IT!" MWD should print a revised edition titled "Divorce Remedy - Read While You Are Married"
Azzork
I realize this all takes baby steps and that I need small goals that are attainable in order to get to the larger goals. I am in limbo here until W gets back with kids on the 30th. I can only work on myself until then but I know the SHTF when she returns and my world will be upside down again in a hurry. She will most likely want to get the lawyer ball rolling asap once she returns and before she goes back to work the following week.
Azzork
I realize this all takes baby steps and that I need small goals that are attainable in order to get to the larger goals. I am in limbo here until W gets back with kids on the 30th. I can only work on myself until then but I know the SHTF when she returns and my world will be upside down again in a hurry. She will most likely want to get the lawyer ball rolling asap once she returns and before she goes back to work the following week.
While this is all true, Im not sure what it has to do with the stuff I laid out in my post ^^^. The goal setting is all about you and what you want. Even when she gets back, you will still only be able to work on you. It's never too early or too late to start working on you.
Duke just read up on your sitch a bit thought I would add some as Azz is on point with all .. just wanted to point a few things out .. things people can get stuck on.
I'm going to the gym, cycling, v-ball, working harder, bought new clothes, reconnected with friends, had great conversations, started going to church again, have better conversations with kids on Skype... its been 3 weeks since they left for EU but BD was at the end of May.
Ok .. all ^^^ is good
My goal is to be happy. How? -GAL right?
My goal is to get my wife back.
My goal is to get my family back.
My goal is to never see a lawyers face.
My goal is to be an exceptional dad and husband. (she fired you for now .. be a good dad/man)
If we owned a house we wouldn't be here.
If our finances were better we wouldn't be here.
If I didn't get down at times about both of the above we wouldn't be here.
Ok .. lets look at the strike throughs ... I get you are attempting at setting goals ... but you have to be specific like Azz said ... furthermore, a goal "to get your wife back" is not a goal, you have no control over that, her, or the situation.
What you can do .. is set goals for yourself ... these may result in re-attracting your wife, such as I am setting a goal to lose 5lbs, this is something you can work towards and measure and involves no one else but YOU.
The "If" statements ... nope .. dont live there either. "If I were George Clooney maybe she would not have left me" ... well you aren't ... own it ... move on. Do what you can do NOW, shoulda-woulda-coulda's will not land you where you need to go, hindsight is 20/20 for a reason .. its back there, we can pick it apart but the energy used on that is wasted away ... energy better saved for doing the work NOW.
Thanks CaliGuy
What does Retrouvaille mean anyways? Are you and W back together?
I agree with what you are saying above. Its tough love I guess. The bulk of the reasoning is no house and finances not where she thought they should be. We had counseling last August and it went well. I worked hard on everything that was brought up and I was working on being a better dad and husband, not that I was bad before. It all kind of blew up at once and now she wont even talk to me. I think if one of the "ifs" were not there I could have worked on the rest. It was just too much for her at once. Not all that long ago we had a solid M and she would do anything to keep it and make it better. Lots have changed. I do think that depression and the meds she is taking have a lot to do with this.
Thanks CaliGuy
What does Retrouvaille mean anyways? Are you and W back together?
I agree with what you are saying above. Its tough love I guess. The bulk of the reasoning is no house and finances not where she thought they should be. We had counseling last August and it went well. I worked hard on everything that was brought up and I was working on being a better dad and husband, not that I was bad before. It all kind of blew up at once and now she wont even talk to me. I think if one of the "ifs" were not there I could have worked on the rest. It was just too much for her at once. Not all that long ago we had a solid M and she would do anything to keep it and make it better. Lots have changed. I do think that depression and the meds she is taking have a lot to do with this.
It means "Rediscovery" ... its a program for marriages, Catholic based. Yes, W announced in Mar she did not want to D, wanted to work on the M, was not for a few months this actually happened. We have been slowly working on things, I have slowly been moving in with her over the past 2 months.
Thing is .. she was looking for an out. The 'IFs' listed are shallow at best and I think you see that ... however you think .. ok if I do this she will love me, she then moves the hoop and its another if... If I do that she will love me .. again .. the hoop moves. The cycle continues and you never get to the goal ... because that goal line is forever moving away from you.
Truth is ... she looked at her life and realized its not all she imagined as a little girl ... reality will never live up to this fantasy, This is called disillusionment and its common, I thought as a boy I would marry and my wife would dress like Mrs Cleaver and bring me sandwiches every day ... we either realize this is life ... or we get upset about where we are and looks like in your case its easier for her to blame it all on you rather than own her share of the issue.
Ahhh Retrouvaille... sounds like a paradise to me at this point.
She really kept quiet about what she wanted because she didn't want to stress me out, she wanted to show support and didn't want to cause issues. It was pent up for so long and finally all came out at once. I knew what she wanted and we wanted the same thing. SHe just reached her breaking point.
Look, I don't know you or anything about you other than what you've shared in your posts here.
But I think you are doing a tremendous disservice to yourself if your only takeaway from your W walking out on your family is that you should have invested better.
Azzork, I know you mean well, I really do and I appreciate it. Up until a couple of years ago we had a great R and M. Kids were great and happy. If you asked anyone back then that knew us they would all say the same thing including W and me. Anytime we had even the slightest falling out bigger than a disagreement W would get so worried and upset that something bigger was wrong. "we have such a great marriage and family, lets discuss whatever is wrong and fix it, please" is how she would react. I always felt bad about that, like she cared more than me. Any of our friends and family would say that our M and R was the most solid and best they have seen. Then around 2 years ago she became a little more distant and less tolerant and didn't put up with me anytime I withdrew and got quiet (rarely). Then in August 2014 we had a falling out and went to a C for a while. We worked it out (I thought), I focussed heavily on our M and R, did a ton more around the house, took on all of many chores (laundry etc), worked with her side by side in the kitchen, told her she was beautiful, ILY, great cook, bought her nice thoughtful gifts regularly, was more available with kids etc. I gave it 100% effort. I noticed along the way that she wasn't really trying any harder, she was just watching me, waiting for me to slip up. Then in May we had a falling out again and that was it. I guess my point is that this is especially hard because I tried so hard and I did change. Maybe she didn't believe in the changes, maybe she felt guilty, maybe she just didn't love me anymore... I don't know. She still says at times she loves me and misses me but now "we have gone too far, too much damage done". I did invest better, I did the things she wanted me to do but it didn't make any difference. If I didn't give a s*%t and didn't try this past year maybe I would get it. I still think that part of this is she is depressed and has been taking the anti depression meds. She is just not acting like herself, totally different. Besides, how can anyone go through this and not blame themselves at least somewhat? I blame myself a lot.
Last night I went to bed feeling stronger and mad at w for doing this to me and our family and today I wake up feeling lonely with little hope for the future. It's been so long since I've seen my girls and spent any quality time with them I keep worrying they are going to forget about me and all the great times we had. I'm having doubts about my lawyer as well. I interviewed 3 and all seemed to have different ideas about what support I would have to pay and if w could get a small inheritance I have. Lots of anxiety about all this.
Not so great day going from bad to worse. I got an email to our family address from a dog breeder. W is buying a puppy for our girls this fall. The reason this hurts is I always promised our girls that as soon as we bought a house I would buy them a puppy. It was always a dream of mine and now she is doing it without me.
What really [censored] is I am sure that she is either thinking about getting another man or already has one in the wings based on how quickly this all went down. Any thoughts anyone? Im feeling so left behind now.
Now I am on the countdown to them coming back in 8 days and what I am sure will be legal action once she settles back in. Feeling pretty hopeless... anyone?
Again, my opinion.
It sounds like when you "changed", it sounds like you picked out the things she said she wanted and did them. That you changed exactly as she requested. Unfortunately, as you can now see, that just doesn't work. It's hard to trust and it's not sustainable. It's not about pretzel ing yourself to become the person you think they want you to be - it's about taking their criticisms and molding you into the person you want to be.
For example, I always used to ask my wife to do some stupid chore as I was walking out of the house in the morning - clean the dishes, start some laundry, whatever. And she would never do it. and, of course I'd be mad. But it wasn't about that chore. It was that I thought she was being lazy.
As for what you do now, you go back to the beginning, read the homework and really start to look for your failings in your M. If you don't make changes in yourself, there can be no change in your R with your W.
Regarding the legal action, I say "so what". You can't contrpl it, and it really doesn't matter much. You're more or less divorced right now - what difference does the piece of paper make? And even if you get all the way to being DIVORCED, there's no rule that you can't get back together.
So focus on the things you can control: you. Your actions. Your reactions.
I saw that I could do more and I wanted to do more not just to help out my wife more but to have a better, closer family life. I rarely if ever asked her to do anything. Is this 30 days with no contact at all not going to do anything? may even push her away more?
How long does the anger in WAW phase last? Again, I didn't cheat, no abuse of any kind, was being a good husband and dad and improving, she just hit a point in life where she wasn't happy where she was at in terms of a house and finances, hit her limit with my "moodiness" which was me withdrawing and being quiet. How long does this hatred, coldness, meanness and complete disregard of anything positive in our relationship last?
I saw that I could do more and I wanted to do more not just to help out my wife more but to have a better, closer family life. I rarely if ever asked her to do anything. Is this 30 days with no contact at all not going to do anything? may even push her away more?
If you don't like a couch, do you think being away from it will change your opinion after 30 days? What if you paint the room, change out the cushions and add an end table...maybe you can come back and see the couch differently.
My point is that just a month of NC isn't going to do anything unless you have made some changes during that time.
How long does this really crappy period last where you are strong one day then a mess the next. Where you think you can go on one day and think you cant live without her the next?
Wow Azzork - nothing like being blunt, eh?
If you think
he was blunt, you better hang on to your hat.
Yes I know its coming. I know when she gets back in 8 days I am in for a lot more pain from her. This is just the limbo period before she gets back. This all started with a "maybe we should try a trial separation?" I would give my right arm for a trial separation right now. I broke every single one of your 37 rules, some several times before I found this site and the DR/DB books. Would it have made any difference if I read them and found this site before BD? I don't know, maybe. She certainly is absolutely livid now, at least she was before she left. She was out for blood with total visceral anger in her eyes. I have never seen it before, not even close. How long does the anger last? What should I expect?
I am going for a bike ride to clear my head and kill some time. This site is great and I really appreciate all the kind folks with their feedback. I know a lot of it is stuff people may not want to hear. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with. So much uncertainty, disappointment, despair, anger, fear... I have never felt like this, ever, not even close.
I just caught up on your sit. I don't have alot of advise. I will say I know how you feel. I too love me w. She has completely shut me off. We are in the same house but she sleeps in another room.
I'm glad you found this site. Before I came here I did the same rule breaking. I continue to break the rules from time to time.
As far as the good days bad days, I'm trying not to be so hard on myself. My bad days are almost always brought on by a bad dream about the w. The dream replays in my head all day. I have had some good days but they few and far between.
Thanks for looking at my thread. I will keep in touch
I used to have bad dreams every now and then where something scared me. I would always shuffle across the bed and snuggle with my wife or hold her hand. She absolutely loved it whenever that happened and would console me until we both fell asleep again. She would do the same thing as well. Now I have those dreams more often. I shuffle across the bed, wake up and realize there is no one there. Its really sad and depressing. It is happening less now however. I'm also having dreams where her and I are in the same bed. I wake up alone, those hurt even more. Usually in the early morning as well. Hang in there. Get some exercise. I went for a good long road ride yesterday and felt a lot better when I went to bed. I went to church this AM as well. The sermon was about the sanctity of marriage and how in the bible the man and woman were supposed to cherish one another as one, how important their vows were. I looked around at how many mothers were there with their kids but no dad and there was me by myself.
I understand. I took the kids to church this morning. The w went but wouldn't ride with me. We came home separate cars. I had planned to play golf this afternoon but it's raining like crazy here.
Tomorrow is a new day with new challenges. I don't know where you are in the world but in the south we say brang it own.
Hang in there it will get better. Is has to.
Jon Bon Jovi re-booked cancelled Vancouver show because 'integrity matters'
“Integrity matters. If you give your word to somebody I think you should do the very best you can to follow through on that word,” he said when asked why he felt it was important that he perform.
I should have married Jon Bon Jovi.
T-7 days and counting until the bomb that was dropped goes off. Went for a good long road ride again tonight. I think a friend is coming over or I will try to finish Divorce Remedy. I skyped with my girls earlier for about 30 mins. WAW always leaves the building when we do, still.
Duke .. taking your Question from tdk's thread over here to yours
Cali, just curious, what would you have done in my situation?
I am guessing its the trampoline sitch:
We have a nice big trampoline at our old house that was 15' x 18', huge. A 2 or 3 person job to move it. Could not fit in a full size pick up for sure, you have to take it apart which is an 8 hour job. I asked W if we should sell it or move it. Ok, Did you ask her to sell it or movement to get a reaction from her? Be Honest here ... was the thing affecting your life one way or the other?
At first she said sell it then changed her mind and didn't tell me, I almost sold it and checked with her at the last minute. Of course she freaked out and said she had arranged to move it to her new rental house, again without telling me. Seems the communication thing is eating at you ... but sniffs of control if you get what I mean The person that she arranged to move it is a good mutual friend but very unreliable. When I found out I left him texts and messages to help him. He forgot about it completely and I ended up having to do it by myself.So you jumped in, took over and rescued here, she had it arranged, HER circus here and she got a different monkey to move the thing, but you came in Magilla-Gorilla and took over the monkey role ... how did this help your situation? It did'nt, what it did do was build up frustration and resentment on your part right? The entire time W and kids were in Europe. Here is the situation: if I sold it, I lose in her eyes and the kids I'm a bad guy. If I left it alone and it never got moved I'm a bad guy and would have to pay the landlord to move it, I lose. If I left it for friend to move, I'm lazy and careless, I lose. If I move it myself I'm a martyr, suck up, panderer, again, I lose. SO what could I have don't different? By the way, wife will not even mention it and she will probably tell the kids not to as well. What could I have done in this situation? Best as I see it, make sure it gets done, do it myself, for my family and keep my mouth shut. At the end of the day I am there for my kids.
Ok you just laid it out there as a lose/lose/lose/lose.
Thing is you asked W what you should do with it ... she said one thing, thought about it decided to take care of it herself .. AT that point, its not your problem. This is a PERFECT time to let your W try on those BGP she chose to wear. IF ... and only IF she asks for your help then you can decide to help her or not ... in this case you jumped in thinking you had to take care of it for her. Doing this is fine if its a "I took care of the trampoline because it was not going to get done and would have costed ME financial" At that point you protect YOURSELF and that's that ... dust your hands off, issue solved and move on ... but your post has that vibe like you did her a favor and you are standing at the door waiting for a tip like a bell-hop which pisses you off that you have been demoted to this role.
To answer your question, What I would have done .. and what I did do ... when W and I split, I took my things, put them in a storage container, moved all my stuff, the other items she chose to take, all her ... she hired a moving crew and off it went, the stuff they left behind, was left behind ... months later I was asked about the outdoor dinning set ... she took the chairs but left the table and umbrella, not my problem as I told her, what good would a set without chairs do me? (The landlord did bill for removal of several things, all of which were items she 'claimed' .... not my problem.
That being said .. I miss that table and umbrella, was pricey and we could use it now ...lol.
Ok, Did you ask her to sell it or movement to get a reaction from her? Be Honest here ... was the thing affecting your life one way or the other? No, I was not trying to get a reaction, I wanted to know what I had to do with the trampoline. She waffled a couple of times then I decided to take care of it myself so that my kids would be happy.
Seems the communication thing is eating at you ... but sniffs of control if you get what I mean Yes, she doesn't tell me anything and then blames me either way. A complete no win.
So you jumped in, took over and rescued here, she had it arranged, HER circus here and she got a different monkey to move the thing, but you came in Magilla-Gorilla and took over the monkey role ... how did this help your situation? It did'nt, what it did do was build up frustration and resentment on your part right? - Was more worried about it sitting at old rental property and being charged to move it and having the kids upset because they lost their trampoline. Wife would have blamed that on me to them and I would be the bad guy. If it was another item that affected her only and no one else I wouldn't have done anything.
I get what you are saying but in this case I was more concerned about getting it off the property and making sure my kids had something they really use and cherish.
Duke
Ok... this DB stuff is truly more about the self work that begins to happen. Reading your post ... just this last one... and it might seem nit-picky just as I recall early in my sitch being called out on such things but they are at the core of things you really meed to look at .. the deep rooted stuff.
That "no-win" ... "lose lose" mindset. You are keeping score. Don't ... its not constructive and only keeps you stuck. Its like building blocks of bitter on top of bitter if you get what I am saying. I think AJ said you can come out of all this in 2 different ways ... Bitter or Better. Better my friend is alot more work I assure you ... its much easier to be pissed off and bitter but it really lands you with a bad life looking forward.
The other "Wife would have blamed that on me to them and I would be the bad guy" .... her thoughts, feelings, are all hers. She feels what she feels, will do what she will do, is going to say what she is going to say. Are you a bad guy? If my wife says I am a purple gorilla it does not make me one .... nor am I going to rush and figure out how to change her perception of me, I know who I am and when I look in the mirror I do not see a purple gorilla, I like the guy who is looking back at me. Was a time I did'nt, and like you .. was a time I would actually see a purple gorilla and want so badly to change it .... but that was impossible because in reality .. I never have been a purple gorilla, that was her perception, one I was a fool to believe.
Find yourself out of all this duke.
I have told a few to do this ... its helpful. Sit down, write out 3 columns 1-20. #1 is things you like about yourself. #2 Things you do not like about yourself. #3 Things you admire in other people that you feel you lack or are not strong in. Put that list somewhere where you can see it in the morning, WORK on that list by focusing on one thing in #2 and replace it with something from #3 .... all the while reading everything in #1 and reminding yourself of who you are with the vision of who you want to be .... This is how I created Cali 2.0, the better man who walked out of the ashes from all this.
From the other thread ...
For example if my WAW asked me to watch our little one so she could go out on a date I would tell her to go ____ herself. If on a night I didn't have the kids but my wife asked me to drive my daughter to a basketball game because she was busy with another daughter. If I say no my daughter doesn't go and everyone thinks I'm a bad dad. If I say yes is that bad DB-ing?
This right here. You are simply saying what you will and will not do are conditional on what your W is doing. That was the point I was trying to make in tdks issue, The wound is fresh and stings I get that ... and like I said there has to be a point you ask yourself ... is this for the kids .. or the W. If the W asks you to watch the kids and is so bold to say its so her and OM can go out, a simple "Sorry I have made plans" without emotion (That's the tricky part) would do.
Now W calls and asks for help as she has her hands full with 2 kids who have a schedule conflict (this happens), and you ARE available ... then its up to you in all honestly, personally there was no event S had that I missed regardless of W's day or mine, that was just me being involved as I always have been.
Its only "Bad DBing" if you are saying 'yes' or 'no' with expectations attached, to get a reaction good/bad from your W .... if you are just being a solid dad/man ... not an issue at all, but like I mentioned there is a line of cake eating even when kids are involved so pick your battles here.
Her choices have consequences but should not dictate you nor your actions, you control those not her. Be a man of strength
I hear you Cali. Its so damn tough right now. I miss her so much and my family. Part of me wants to tread lightly in the hopes of this getting fixed, another part says it wont get fixed and to look out for myself. Lawyers have me confused, I don't know which one to go with. My wife is being downright cold and mean which is a total 180 from the last 16 years of love and caring. I hate this. I was a good guy, a good dad and husband. She can take me for a large chunk of my income as well where I live and I could barely see my kids if this goes against me.
I hear you Cali. Its so damn tough right now. I miss her so much and my family. Part of me wants to tread lightly in the hopes of this getting fixed, another part says it wont get fixed and to look out for myself. Lawyers have me confused, I don't know which one to go with. My wife is being downright cold and mean which is a total 180 from the last 16 years of love and caring. I hate this. I was a good guy, a good dad and husband. She can take me for a large chunk of my income as well where I live and I could barely see my kids if this goes against me.
Oh I totally get where you are and its not a good place. Being a 'good guy' is usually something we all strive for, bad side of this .. when you are good to the extent you are more driven to please others ahead of yourself, those closet to you end up losing respect for you ... call it the "Princess Effect" ... I did everything for my W, thinking.... ok if I do this she will love me, if I power wash the patio, she will reward me with love, If I do that .. she will love me. I did things to get a reaction from my W, this over time lead to me pursuing, doing things without rewards, becoming frustrated and in time losing myself, losing my sense of self worth, self respect ... and when you lost self respect, its impossible for your W to respect you ... hard for a woman to be attracted to a man she no longer respects. Putting her up on the pedestal and worshiping her as the princess, over time she felt/believed she deserved better, even better than all the things I was doing FOR her ... not for me or my family.
Her being cold and mean ... yup .. mine was the same, its her wall to ensure this all happens, to make sure you can not 'trick' her back into the marriage. Stay the course ... again .. her feelings and actions are hers, nothing you can do but turn that energy towards yourself.
How long did you pursue for after BD? Did you break all the 37 rules like I did, multiple times? I pursued and tried to be the perfect husband for 2 full months, I begged, pleaded, wrote letters, bought gifts, you name it. She did admit that all the work I was doing around the house was not much different from the last year.
Also, how long did that mean and hateful treatment from your wife last? She is treating me like I cheated on her with her best friend for the last 5 years and beat the kids when I came home from gambling away all our money while on a drunken month long binge in Thailand.
Well ... I did not find this forum untill about 10 months AFTER BD. When it happened I did not do alot of the 'mistakes' ... but I did do a few and broke a few of the '37'. I never begged or pleaded when she left in Nov, I did pursue ... but in Jan when OM was revealed I was so hurt and betrayed I thought I was done honestly, alot of pain and back and forth for 6-7 months till I laned here.
Keep in mind, Sandis 37, while golden ... its more about your approach and attitude. For me some of the 37 were no brainers .. others felt like chopping off an arm. Then it clicked, they are not things to win her back, in fact its more about winning yourself back ... might not make much sense now but hopefully for you it soon will.
The mean/anger stuff lasted as long as I fed into it, lasted as long as I tolerated it. It stopped when I put up a boundary on it ... check out Wonkas Boundary post. When you follow the 37, detach, you start regainging yourself, like I said .. you gain self worth and self respect. It becomes WHO you are. You would not let someone come into your house with muddy shoes disrespecting your place right? When my W started with the anger and spew, at first I weathered it, thinking I deserved it .... then I realized .. wait a minute, not only do I not deserve this 'again' but I am not going to stand out here and take it, I would leave, ask her to leave, hang up ... after telling her I would not be treated disrespectfully any longer .... this is after I owned my faults and errors in the M.
Again .. all this ^^^ about you .. not her. She will still be pissed and spew, you decide how much you want on you.
I do plan on setting some boundaries for how she treats me. I have always had the belief that it is good to let people vent when they want to. You get to hear everything they had pent up, everything that has been bothering them and that they think is wrong with R. Hearing it once is enough however. It did help me piece together everything that she thought was/is wrong. The actual R side is minimal, this is mostly house and finance related.
Question - what do you think the chances are she comes back from this 30 day vacay a little cooler given we have had zero contact? She couldn't go 2 days without communication while we were married.
Duke, Caliguy is giving you excellent advice. It is almost impossible to grade your stitch by another DBer's length of time on any given subject. Every WW is angry, but every WW is not angry for the same period of time.
You have just started and it takes a good while to start digesting all the information you are receiving.....plus more to come. I can't speak as a LBS, only what I have observed in newcomers who are desperately trying to find direction and answers. What "I" may think is vitally important to remember, may slide right off the LBS b/c they are so emotional and have so much they're trying to grasp.
Don't beat yourself up for not doing what you are reading now, b/c you didn't know. I believe everyone does what they think worked in the past or what their spouse use to say they wanted. So, when they come here and see the advice is usually opposite of what they were doing.....it blows them out of the water. The reason none of those things worked for you is b/c she has changed, therefore the dynamics of the R has changed. Most of the advice you'll receive will help you turn the dynamics around. Think about it.
There have been many, many men who have experienced what you are facing. One of the very best advisers I had, never R with their spouse (the last I heard). What am I saying? We learn from our mistakes. We can warn others to not do what we did.
It is not too late. You have to believe in yourself, and not what your W says about you. You know if you are doing your best, if you are a good daddy, if you own your mistakes, etc. Base your decisions on what you know is the right thing to do as a man and as a parent. Just don't get confused about it and become her slave by babysitting, being her Mr. Handyman, mechanic, etc. Know where to draw the line by using good judgement on these things. So many guys are too afraid to say "no" to their W. Stay balanced on these issues.
I do suggest that you run things by the board (if you have time) before jumping off into something that could make things more complicated or difficult for you.
Allowing her to vent is one thing ... standing there while she dishes out blame and abuse is another.
Again ... thats all on her right? She could come back happy, angry, with a Mike Tyson Tattoo on her face ... none of that matters, what would be better is if YOU focus for that 30 days as a chance to rediscover yourself.
My wife too could not go hours without contact ... then enter OM and all those feelings and shared moments transferred to him, just like moving money from one account to another. NOTHING I could do about it really, but the withdrawls were tough for ME... something I had to deal with. Might be something for you to think about and brace for ... resist the urge to contact her, live YOUR life .. look at it as a vacation from all this mess and you can recharge your life-battery.
Thanks Sandi and Cali, great but tough advice. Its such a major role change to go from doing everything for your family including your wife and kids to figuring out what to do whether it is for me and my kids or if it is for my wife in some way. Very strange but I think I am starting to understand. Basically the kids first, then me. I will be nice and polite to my wife but never again let her browbeat me. If she wants me to do something mainly for her I will say that is what your husband used to do, the one you fired.
I have to maintain and grow my self respect. If and when she respects me again I may be attractive to her but certainly not when she doesn't respect me.
Running stuff by the board:
1) I am going to the airport to meet them whether my W and MIL want me there and think I am "butting in" or not.
2) I will bring flowers for each of my 3 daughters and nothing for W or MIL.
3) I will dress really nice, casual for my girls.
4) I will be polite and cordial to W and MIL but no hugs, kisses, just a "Hi" and a smile.
5) I will tell the girls to contact me when they get settled to arrange a time to see my new place and spend some time together.
Running stuff by the board:
1) I am going to the airport to meet them whether my W and MIL want me there and think I am "butting in" or not.
Why? Sounds like you are inviting yourself over for dinner to me.
2) I will bring flowers for each of my 3 daughters and nothing for W or MIL.
Bad move ... this sees nothing more than a slap in the face to your W, again looking for a reaction from her, what does this show? You can give your daughters flowers, but I think this can be done away from your W without her knowing ... its like you are trying to punish her here.
3) I will dress really nice, casual for my girls.
Dress for yourself, but adding 'for the girls' really feels like you mean 'for W to notice, but I will say for the girls just to prove I am detached'
4) I will be polite and cordial to W and MIL but no hugs, kisses, just a "Hi" and a smile.
This part should be your approach at all times.
5) I will tell the girls to contact me when they get settled to arrange a time to see my new place and spend some time together.
Again, good, and I would save those flowers to be given at this moment.
Stop planning things that would get a reaction from your W, ... you will get a reaction but this will not be in the direction that will help you. Stop playing the short game, think big picture here.
Damn your good... probably why your in Retrouvaille. I'm still going to the airport. I haven't seen my girls in a month and they will be looking for me when they get off the plane. I keep asking myself "self, what if it was just your wife involved"? The answer in this was is - no, I would not go if just my wife was getting off the plane but I would absolutely go if my daughters were. I put them in front of her everytime now. I would like to have something for them when they first see me so maybe a nice bunch of flowers in one bunch for all of them?
I read a great book when my first daughter was born and again after each daughter that followed, its called "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters" by Dr. Meg Meeker. The overall message is be the man that you would want your daughters to marry. Treat your wife like you would like a man to treat your daughters. Be what you would want them to expect from a man. I was fired by my wife and it had nothing to do with anything I just wrote. I will continue to be the man that I would want them to marry one day. I can only pray they don't treat their husbands the way my wife treated me.
That's not a bad way to look in the mirror, its an angle I have not thought of as I have a son ... but I did want to appear to be a role model in my sons eyes, I did worry about how I was perceived with my W having an A, and the appearance that I might look weak by standing for the marriage vs looking strong.
As far as the airport I completely get why you would go, trying to put myself in that spot I do not see myself meeting W and S, I would simply wait till I could go get S and spend the time with him then as the airport meeting would be awkward at best, your W will be tired from the trip and I just see this as poking the bear when its not needed.
Again .. your choice. Just PMA and remember why you are there ... the girls ....and thats it.
10-4 Cali and thanks. Like I said, if W gets bent out of shape that I am there I don't really care. She would be ticked off either way anyways so what difference to me does it make? If I go I am "butting in" if I don't go I am a bad Dad.
On another note, I am amazed how much of a difference getting out of the house and doing strenuous physical activity makes. I left work early yesterday and played about 4 hours of beach volley ball (just like the old days, the really old days). It felt awesome. I came back home, cleaned up and had a great sleep.
Message is - don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself and wondering what W or S is doing. Focus on yourself and what makes you happy. Exercise daily and you WILL feel better.
10-4 Cali and thanks. Like I said, if W gets bent out of shape that I am there I don't really care. She would be ticked off either way anyways so what difference to me does it make? If I go I am "butting in" if I don't go I am a bad Dad.
On another note, I am amazed how much of a difference getting out of the house and doing strenuous physical activity makes. I left work early yesterday and played about 4 hours of beach volley ball (just like the old days, the really old days). It felt awesome. I came back home, cleaned up and had a great sleep.
Message is - don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself and wondering what W or S is doing. Focus on yourself and what makes you happy. Exercise daily and you WILL feel better.
Duke ... if you really don't care .. you would not project her being upset at you if you did or did'nt. You go to the airport because you want to see your girls, not to piss off W, not to prove you are not a bad Dad ... this is a trending theme for you that you need to work on, I hope you understand where I am coming from and not trying to 2x4 you ... its a hill you need to climb.
The outdoor stuff ... yup, especially right now, its a great way to relieve some stress ... lets face it ... nothing more stressful than the boat you are in at the moment, and that is a healthy way to deal with it.
New thread time man.
Its such a major role change to go from doing everything for your family including your wife and kids to figuring out what to do whether it is for me and my kids or if it is for my wife in some way. Very strange but I think I am starting to understand.
I am sure it must be extremely strange for a responsible family man to suddenly stop himself from including his W. You may have seen where I've said this before, that when a wife turns wayward and wants to break up her family in order to fulfill her selfish desires, then she has removed herself out from under the umbrella of the H's protection, provision, family events & traditions, and all the things he use to do for her. Understand,
she doesn't agree with that statement, b/c
she still wants all of those things....but she doesn't want the
responsibility of your wife (just the privileges).
I read a great book when my first daughter was born and again after each daughter that followed, its called "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters" by Dr. Meg Meeker. The overall message is be the man that you would want your daughters to marry. Treat your wife like you would like a man to treat your daughters. Be what you would want them to expect from a man.
YES, YES, YES!!! Never read the book, but you have practically quoted my very words about fathers, daughters, and wives. It also applies for sons, b/c
they need a role model to know how to treat their W's some day. They will treat their W's like daddy treated their mother. Chances are that they will act much like their father acted with their mother. If they saw daddy taking a browbeating from mother, then they will think that is what a H is suppose to do.
What a responsibility on men!
Sandi,
That is a big concern for me. I think with my wifes depression, depression meds, gallbladder surgery, pre-meno all in the last 2 years or so, she just went kinda nuts and started treating me really poorly. Basically just making me a last priority in her life, telling me what to do and how to do it, how to dress, constantly questioning me, the last 2 years I don't think I ever got any birthday, father's day, anniversary gifts or cards. She also lost it on me and yelled at me for a good 5 minutes in front of our kids a year ago and would not apologise. She actually said that she wanted to teach her girls to be strong towards dominant men. HA! I told her she is teaching them how to be divorcees and alone.
Heres my new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2601478#Post2601478