Need advice for a WW who left Part 3

Link to previous threads:

Part 1: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592593&page=1

Part 2: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592603&page=1

Dwh

It's always great to start a new thread.

I have thought a great deal about this. I think the grief you feel is the loss of your dreams and hopes.

I sense a na�vet� within your posts. WW has been wayward for quite a long time, and this time she escalated and left. I question if she hadn't whether you would have continued with your dream.

Whatever you do this is for you and your children.

V

V, I'm sure I would have continued living in my own fantasy for as long as WW was still here. I haven't truly been happy for a while if I'm being honest. I knew there were problems with the M, but I just didn't realize how far back and how deep rooted they were. I'm not glad about the things that have happened, but a major change was needed in all our lives, and I'm not sure anything less than this avalanche of grief would have done the trick.

So it's been the worst 5 months of my life, no question. But I feel I've come a long way and things are definitely getting better. Today was overall a good day. My WW took the usual 2 boys (S18 and S8) out for cony dogs, while I did some shopping and ran 2 miles at the Y. After the kids got home, we went to my sisters and I helped her put up a new fence in her yard while the kids swam in her pool. Now I can't say it was a "good" time for me. In fact, it was darn hard work. Not sure if anyone has used a post hole digger before, but let me just say it's exhausting, and we hit a hi of 89 outside today. I was pretty much drenched in my own sweat for hours.

But the great news is that I kept busy on the task, and didn't really think about WW all that often. My mom and step-father were there too, so between the conversation and work, it felt like a pretty normal day. I wasn't depressed and somewhat enjoyed myself. The good mood has continued even after getting home and I plan on going back tomorrow to help finish the job, after church of course. I feel like the past few days have sort of been a turning point for me, and life is starting to turn around. Don't recall if I mentioned it, but I received a job offer Friday around 5pm and will be starting in 2 weeks. As icing on the cake, it's a 20% raise over where I was at before, plus it has flexible start time, so I can work around the kids school schedules. I know I've got a ways to go but really hoping that the worst of the journey is coming to an end.

Dwh,

You didn't mention the job offer but it's huge! Whether you say yeah or Nay it's a big confidence boost.

Many congratulations.

I asked how old it was for you because the unhappiness goes back further than BD. You may wish to explore this and it's origins later.

For today you are at an oasis, enjoy the caravan serai and rest easy.

V

Went to church this morning. The message was powerful and really spoke to my personal situation. I won't go into details but the theme was God's dominion and how he has a plan, and everything always works to his will. Even sinful, bad, painful things are used to bring us closer to God, and I strongly feel that working in my own life. It doesn't necessarily mean that everything will work out how I expect, but I have faith that in the end, I will be a better, happier person.

So today still not feeling too bad. Have had a couple of painful moments thinking about WW with the OM, and have a mix of hurt and anger. But I seem to be getting over them much quicker lately, and try not to dwell on it. Heading down to my sister's again to help finish up the fence work we started today. Probably in for another hot, grueling, sweaty day, but should get it finished up.

The kids had their fill of the pool yesterday so are heading to spend a couple of hours with mom and have lunch. Her and OM have started having a get together every Sunday with the neighbors where they have a bunch of food and hang out. It actually sounds like a lot of fun, and is something I wish we would have done more of as a family. I'm happy that the kids will enjoy it, but part of me gets jealous and angry whenever they spend time with WW and OM together. It's something I just have to learn to accept.

As I think more about my sitch and the long, sorted history of WW, I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again. I mean, the trouble started almost 5 years ago, with what I now know to be the very first OM, in spite of her repeated denials. Since then, it has been a series of affairs, at least 4 OM that I can confirm, and possibly more I don't know about. All lasted 18-24 months, except for the 2nd, which appeared to be a very short fling of 2-3 months. That is a very long time to be troubled mentally and emotionally. I think that WW is hoping that her actually moving out and in with current OM will be the difference this time. Who knows. Seems very unlikely to me, but then what does she do next? I just don't know if she will ever get better, at least not w/o some very serious professional help. I'm really starting to wonder if I should throw in the towel, file, and just move on.

Dwh

You do what you do when you are ready. You decide.

V

Another hard day of outdoor work, but at least my sisters yard is looking pretty good. Found out from S18 that WW had filled out an employment application, but for whatever reason didn't want me to know. WTF? No idea why she wouldn't want me to know about that. I've been pushing her for years to get a good job, something full time. I would be thrilled to hear it. Who knows what kind of logic makes sense to a wayward though. Guess that's the kind of games we're playing with each other now. I'm not telling her about my recent offer either, at least not until the last minute. Probably wouldn't mention it at all, except for the fact of the kids being home alone for a couple of hours after school each day. I know that as soon as she hears, it's gonna be a big push on when to expect financial help again, and she's NOT getting any. She has assumed that the unemployment was the only reason up to this point. It's not a conversation I'm looking forward to, but I'm not worried about it either. Sure, she'll be angry, but I guess what's new. Any time something doesn't go her way, she goes nuts. Pretty used to it by now.

Was talking with my sis a little more about WW, and she is still 100% convinced that there is a substance abuse issue. Remember, that is what sis does - substance abuse counselor for women. She says the behavior mimics a lot of her patients to the tee. The lies and deceptions, party life style, etc. It all fits. I have no idea, but anything is possible. Also starting to wonder if a typical WW just looks very similar to someone with substance abuse issues. Regardless, my sis still says that nothing is going to change with her behavior until she hits rock bottom, most likely meaning trouble with the law, or major health problems. She agrees that the change in personality has been going on for way too long to be a simple case of rushed judgement. The person she is now is just who she is, and who she will continue to be, without major consequences.

I go back and forth every day lately about how long I need to hold out before filing. I had initially set a deadline of next April but I don't know if I can wait that long. Right now, think I'm leaning more towards late January, and see if there are any indications of regret or change. That will get us through our first major holiday season apart, and give a taste of what life is going to be like from now on at that time of year. After filing, it's still another 6 months before everything is final, which would put me at around 15 months separated. I think that if there isn't some sort of sign by then, I will have given up hope. I feel like I'm still fairly young, and while I'm not in a huge rush to run out and find another woman, I just can't imagine going like this for 2 or 3 years and not even dating. Guess I've got plenty of time to decide though.

Sort of feeling bummed today. Was busy all weekend and mostly kept my mind off WW, but back at home today with not much to do other than housework. I miss her like crazy. Sometimes I wish I could just be the friend that she wants, but I know it wouldn't be healthy for me. I'm still not detached enough, and she would use it to her advantage. Plus, I feel it sends her the wrong message that I am OK with just being friends. I want her to see me as a husband, not a gay boyfriend.

Maybe somewhere down the road, say another 2-3 years and everyone has fully moved on, I could be that friend. Of course by then, I may not even want that. Still hard to imagine that this is how it's going to be the rest of my life. Seeing my W for a couple of minutes while exchanging kids, or having a 2 minute convo once or twice a week. This is the woman I imagined growing old with. It's still so hard to cope sometimes. But I keep moving on, trusting that things will get better.

Originally Posted By: dwh15

As I think more about my sitch and the long, sorted history of WW, I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again. I mean, the trouble started almost 5 years ago, with what I now know to be the very first OM, in spite of her repeated denials. Since then, it has been a series of affairs, at least 4 OM that I can confirm, and possibly more I don't know about.

Woah! Well it is always possible, it's your choice when you want to quit standing, not hers. You can never have the same relationship you had before and you shouldn't seek that, your goal is a new relationship with a new you and new her. But 4 OM's, wow. It sounds like she has a lot of work to do to sort through why that is going on.

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I just don't know if she will ever get better, at least not w/o some very serious professional help.

I agree.

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I'm really starting to wonder if I should throw in the towel, file, and just move on.

That option is there whenever you choose to pursue it. I think 5 months is too soon for that though, you're still going through a lot emotionally and pursuing D will absolutely not make all the hurt and pain go away, it will probably make it worse. Wait until you feel like your emotions have stabilized and you're strong enough to move forward before making that decision. I would think it would take at least a year post-BD. For me it was even longer than that.

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Found out from S18 that WW had filled out an employment application, but for whatever reason didn't want me to know. WTF? No idea why she wouldn't want me to know about that.

This is your new reality, get used to it! WAS's are extremely secretive about all things great and small. I think it's their way of separating themselves from the LBS.

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I'm not telling her about my recent offer either, at least not until the last minute. Probably wouldn't mention it at all, except for the fact of the kids being home alone for a couple of hours after school each day.

Don't do things like this, be the better person. Let her play her games, you be the best you can be. If this affects the kids and your W's schedule, don't wait and spring it on her at the last minute (even though she might do that to you).

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I go back and forth every day lately about how long I need to hold out before filing. I had initially set a deadline of next April but I don't know if I can wait that long. Right now, think I'm leaning more towards late January, and see if there are any indications of regret or change. That will get us through our first major holiday season apart, and give a taste of what life is going to be like from now on at that time of year. After filing, it's still another 6 months before everything is final, which would put me at around 15 months separated.

That seems like a more realistic schedule, in your previous post I thought you meant you were thinking about pursuing it ASAP.

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I feel like I'm still fairly young, and while I'm not in a huge rush to run out and find another woman, I just can't imagine going like this for 2 or 3 years and not even dating.

I started dating a couple years post-BD and looking back I think I still should have waited longer. I wasn't ready even though I thought I was, and I ended up in some messy relationships because of it.

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Guess I've got plenty of time to decide though.

You do indeed. I think we all feel rushed, we're not as young as we once were and we feel like we need to jump into a new relationship right away to fill that void in our life. But first we need to learn to be happy ALONE before we can be happy with someone else. And we have much more time than we realize, there's no hurry.

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I want her to see me as a husband, not a gay boyfriend.

Actually that wouldn't be a bad thing. Usually it's referred to here as a "friendly neighbor" rather than gay boyfriend, but same concept. You should just try to be someone she feels like she can talk to and confide in without there being pressure for a relationship. Often that's how broken-up couples start falling in love again, they give up trying to work on their relationship and find comfort in just being friends. Then it grows from there.

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Maybe somewhere down the road, say another 2-3 years and everyone has fully moved on, I could be that friend.

It's been 3 years for me and really my ex and I only recently started talking more like friends rather than co-parents. So it can take a while!

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Still hard to imagine that this is how it's going to be the rest of my life.

Life is very, very unpredictable. None of us knows what the future holds. That can be frustrating when dealing with a WAS (we all just want to know "the ending" so we can plan accordingly, right?) But it can also be exciting. I really thought my life was over after BD. After all, I was 51, it wasn't like I could start over again. But now I realize it's not about starting over, it's about building a new life in whatever way, shape or form you want it to be. You want to sit at home and build models? Do it. You want to find a young, sexy girlfriend? Do it. You want to settle down with an older woman? Ride motorcycles? Skydive? Be a bodybuilder? Combo of the above? Well you get the point, you get to write your own future. You have all the power, you just haven't realized it yet. You're still codependent on your W, but you'll learn to break the bonds and regain the sexy, independent, confident man you once were

Thank you for the thought out reply above AnothStand. Agree with everything you said. My point on the gay boyfriend thing was that right now, WW is all for it. And I realized I'm too attached for it to work. I was doing it in the hopes that it would bring us closer. And I do think it some ways it did, since we were talking more open and honest than we had in years. But she wanted to confide everything, including her troubles with OM, and I just couldn't take it. Plus, I realized she was using me to some extent to get favors and money. Think I need at least another few months of detachment before I can even try to tackle the "friends" approach. I do believe that WW and I will eventually get there, but for me, it will have to be after most of my romantic feelings are gone, and all the dust has settled on financial arrangements.

Based on history, my guess is that things are going to start to crumble with current OM within 18 months. I don't say that in hopes that it means she runs back to me, but it's a good general time frame of when I think my feelings will finally be in check, and she may be more level headed, rather than butterflies in the stomach over OM. Of course, I seem to change my mind every other day so who knows by then.

Quick update on latest events. My S15 has a birthday coming up this week so WW sent me a TM asking if I had plans for him. We exchanged a few TMs and came to an agreement that I would be taking him to lunch that day, and she would take him to dinner. She will also make a cake & ice cream and they will celebrate with my other kids that night. I agreed to chip in $15 towards the cost of his meal, and the cake supplies. She is really hurting for money, so I figured it sounded fair. I want S15 to spend time with mom that day, and the money was my idea - she didn't ask. It bums me out that we can't all celebrate as a complete family but need to get used to things working this way.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Originally Posted By: dwh15

As I think more about my sitch and the long, sorted history of WW, I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again. I mean, the trouble started almost 5 years ago, with what I now know to be the very first OM, in spite of her repeated denials. Since then, it has been a series of affairs, at least 4 OM that I can confirm, and possibly more I don't know about.

Woah! Well it is always possible, it's your choice when you want to quit standing, not hers. You can never have the same relationship you had before and you shouldn't seek that, your goal is a new relationship with a new you and new her. But 4 OM's, wow. It sounds like she has a lot of work to do to sort through why that is going on.

Umm...yeah. When I say 4, it includes the current OM who she is living with. There were 2 others in the past 5 years who I know about for sure, and another which I can't confirm but have strong suspicions based on what I have heard from friends who know both me and WW.

It's definitely a messed up situation. I mean, who does that? My W clearly has issues and is looking for something to make herself happy. I really don't think she was totally convinced on moving out this time, but she was getting pressure from OM to do it, and she finally caved. Funny enough, she was on the verge of leaving him just a few weeks ago, because she didn't feel he was giving her enough attention. Then he gave her the ILYBNILWY speech. So it's not looking like a sturdy foundation for anything long term, but who knows. She's sort of stuck now, since I made it very clear I wouldn't be letting her just march back into my house every time she hit a rough patch.

It's all so sad, since my W was NOTHING like this when we met. Even her own sisters say that. Nobody recognizes her. I hope and pray for her, that something hits her hard enough to recognize the issues in herself and seek help. But at this point, I think it's just as likely she moves onto yet another OM as it is she would want to work on things with me. I've made that a personal line of mine that I will not cross - if she moves to another OM after this, I will be immediately filing and no looking back. Sometimes I feel crazy even hanging on now, knowing the history. My family and friends keep pushing, telling me to get over it, I'm so much better off w/o her, etc. The same drill everyone prob gets in these situations. I don't think anyone realizes the amount of hurt and pain you go through.

So, in spite of the nasty history, I'm hanging in for now. I know that the outlook is bleak, but I'm doing it for me, my kids, and even my poor W, who I feel has a very rough life ahead if she continues down this path. I trust in God's plan and know that things will work out how they are met to be.

dwh

Reading along ... I just wanted to chime in a bit here.

The 4OM thing, and the questions you have about " I really wonder if there is any chance we could ever be a complete family again" ... honestly no way do you have a chance at that until your W takes a step back and really decides to do some serious work. She is looking for a fix to her pain, not finding it with the OM's so she continues to cycle on to the 'next guy' and the rush a new A brings.... once she figures out this is an internal struggle is futile, only then will she have a chance to break out of this. YOU can do little to help her with this .. her journey and she has to figure it out on her own ... what you can do is become a better stronger man and set your personal boundaries on what you will/will not accept ... not only from her, but from anyone, Not to punish ... but something you most likely should have done YEARS ago. Keep in mind, when you do get to this point, set the boundary once and hold to it .. she will test it and you .. you must hold firm here and show her you are not going to give an inch. Remember Strength is attractive... Push-overs are not.

Second point ... you said:

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I go back and forth every day lately about how long I need to hold out before filing. I had initially set a deadline of next April but I don't know if I can wait that long. Right now, think I'm leaning more towards late January, and see if there are any indications of regret or change.

You are basing your decisions on her actions ... you are not living YOUR life here with this mindset. Do you think W thought about what you might/might not do when she moved in with OM? Nope .... she fired you ... if you are waiting around and holding your breathe for her to show remorse .. you will turn purple and die. As far as filing for D .... dating .... all that stuff. I was there too, decided I was going to date just to get some mojo back, put myself out there. Went out a couple times, had a blast and could have easily pursued a relationship with a couple gals .... thing was, my heart was not in it ... was fun but not what I wanted. So I decided ... my life really was no different with or without W, I was not ready and till I felt I was .. no reason to file D for me. I gave her the $$ I felt was fair (Far more than what the state would ask) and I continued to work on myself. I got to a place where I did not want W back, not the W who was making my life hell .... nor did I really want the W who I had pre BD ... I deserved better. But I had to really change, become more secure and sit down and decide what I wanted for this next chapter of my life. I really dove into working on me and detached from W, she felt this in a big way.

When and if your W ever comes back to 'that table' .. the one where she says she will do anything .. you will have a list of non-negotiables ... not out of punishment .. but from a place of strength. Till then ... its really up to you ... you have some serious work to do for yourself right now regardless if you save the M, or you apply it to the next relationship .. either way you will be better off if you continue the mirror work now.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

dwh

When and if your W ever comes back to 'that table' .. the one where she says she will do anything .. you will have a list of non-negotiables ... not out of punishment .. but from a place of strength. Till then ... its really up to you ... you have some serious work to do for yourself right now regardless if you save the M, or you apply it to the next relationship .. either way you will be better off if you continue the mirror work now.

Great post and again, I agree with everything you say. I wasn't meaning to imply that my deadline for filing is dependent on WW. Right now, I'm not ready. In a few months, maybe I will be, maybe I won't. Guess I shouldn't even bother setting arbitrary deadlines that are months away, since I don't even know how I'll feel in a day or two, let alone next year.

About the dating, I know what you mean. I actually went on a single date with a very nice lady, but I just couldn't enjoy it. I was talking with a 2nd woman, but called that off immediately since I knew I was nowhere near ready. Some days I feel like I want to date, then others I realize I'm not even close. I guess that's as good an indicator as anything. When I reach a point where I consistently feel like I want to date, then it will be time to file. It may be a month, it may be a year. I'll know when I get there.

Also agree about my W needing some serious work on herself. No idea when or if she will reach that conclusion, but as you said, it has to be one of the non-negotiables. I truly don't believe she is capable of maintaining any long term R with anyone in her current mental state.

So point taken. I need to turn the lens back on me, and just keep improving myself. I feel like I've made a lot of good changes, but am sure I have a lot more work to do. Thanks for the encouragement.

Feeling a little down again today, but not too bad. Been staying busy around the house. Decided one of my goals was going to be get my house in tip top shape. I've had months to do it, but just didn't have the motivation. So already spent 2 hours cleaning kitchen this morning. Gonna start working on each room of the house, one at a time. Start a new job in 2 weeks and my available hours are really going to shrink, so need to focus on it now.

Taking my kids to a minor league baseball game tonight. Should be a lot of fun. None of them have ever been before. I think they even shoot up fireworks at the end of the night. My W and I went last year, so it will probably trigger some memories and be bitter sweet for me, but I want to build positive memories with my boys. WW is supposed to be taking them out on a boat tomor afternoon with a friend of hers, so the kids have a couple of fun days planned.

I'm also seriously committed to getting in the best physical shape of my life. I've been running every other day, plus a lot of physical labor. Gonna start hitting the weights 2-3 times a week as well. It makes me feel good, and I would love to reach a point where I have a 6-pack of abs. I know that's a LOT of work, but would be nice to be in that good of shape for at least once in my life. I suppose it can't hurt with the ladies either.

Still missing WW pretty often, but it's not as crippling as before. I can usually keep working through it and don't get too depressed. I'm sad about the loss of a future between us, and the loss of a whole family for my kids. I don't know what the future holds but I really hope we all turn out happy and at peace.

Went and filled out all the legal paperwork to start on the new job in 2 weeks. It's all official now, just waiting for the day. Leaving for the ball park in 30 minutes. Taking kids to their very first baseball game. It's minor league but should be fun for them.

No word from WW today at all. She typically goes lights out on days she isn't seeing the kids, which I suppose is good. Have thought about her a little, but find that keeping busy keeps her out of my head. Doing my best to keep active during the day and avoid the sad thoughts.

Going through all of your posts, I might have missed it but did you ever detail your marital history? You say all the things went downhill after her first A. That's usually not the case. What were the problems and was was your part in the downfall? Not saying you were the reason for her A, but just be brutally honest with your contributions.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Going through all of your posts, I might have missed it but did you ever detail your marital history? You say all the things went downhill after her first A. That's usually not the case. What were the problems and was was your part in the downfall? Not saying you were the reason for her A, but just be brutally honest with your contributions.

Yes, I've thought about all of that, and detailed some of it in previous posts. I can summarize here, and have been working on all of these issues. Basically, I took her for granted, in many ways.

1) I didn't really "listen". I would hear her but had a bad habit of trying to offer suggestions rather than just hear what she had to say.

2) I didn't help out around the house or with kids nearly as much as I should have. She probably felt like a single mom a lot of the time.

3) I didn't respect her time. We would make plans, and she would be sitting on me waiting to leave, sometimes for up to an hour, while I finished up something else I was doing. Usually something not very important, such as watching a show.

4) We slept in separate bedroom for the past 7-8 years. This wasn't malicious on my part. She had a snoring problem, and as hard as I tried, I just couldn't sleep next to her with that going on. It started out as me moving to the couch most of the time, but then got to the point she just slept in another room. I think this was a BIG issue for her. How badly I wish I had just bought ear muffs or tried to adjust to it.

5) She felt like I didn't respect her. Now, that isn't true but I know it's how she felt. Like I didn't think she was smart or capable, at least compared to myself. Part of that is low self-esteem I believe, but I should have done more to make her feel better about herself.

I think those are the big issues that I can identify. There may be more in her mind, but since she has refused to talk about it, hard to say. I have tried to correct every one of those issues in other relationships in my life, and feel that I am doing pretty well.

Sometimes I'll catch myself about to say something negative or snarky, and quickly eat a STFU smoothy. I respect everyone's time now and make sure to be early any time I've made a commitment to be somewhere. I make a concerted effort to really listen to people and hear what they are saying, all without passing judgement or offering advice, unless they specifically ask for it. I'm completely taking care of all the housework now, doing dishes, laundry, making meals, etc. I make an effort to talk with each of my kids every day and comfort them, boost their self-esteem, make them feel good about themselves.

There isn't much I can really do about the history with separate bedrooms, other than commit to myself that I will never allow that to happen again when I am in a committed relationship, whether it be with my current W or another woman. It was mean, disrespectful, and one of my biggest regrets.

Other than what I listed above, of course I'm working hard on GAL activities, hitting the gym regularly, trying to get the house in tip top shape, spending time with my kids, etc. I feel like I've come a long way in the past few months, but need to keep working on it so that this all becomes part of who I am. I never plan to be the man I was again; I don't like that person and can understand in many ways why my W didn't like him either.

Still having a hard time with missing WW. Don't really feel depressed as much, but having a lot of regrets about my contributions to the breakdown of our M. I really had to restrain myself from sending her a TM this morning just to check in. I am doing a lot better when out and busy, and starting to actually enjoy life in those moments again. But I can't help but feel sad that WW is not getting a chance to enjoy the activities that we should have both been doing all along. I still hope that some day I get a chance to show her what it could, and should, be like in a healthy M.

Went from missing WW to being angry in just a few minutes. She made plans for the kids at 1pm today w/o saying a word to me. Typically she doesn't pick them up til nearly 7pm. And as a bonus, she wanted to know if I could send them some money for lunch. This all with less than an hour's notice. Apparently she had told S18 and expected him to relay the message. I sent a TM that from now on, she needed to communicate directly with me regarding changes in the normal schedule. That lead to a bunch of TMs back and forth, and we finally agreed to just sit down and come up with a different schedule. We're going to formalize it in writing and both sign it. Was her idea but I immediately agreed, which I think surprised her. All along, I've been going by what she asked for, but then it's always my fault when she makes unexpected plans and the kids choose to stay with me because I'm doing something they prefer.

I think it's time to just formalize the plan for time with kids. Need to have set pick-up and drop-off times. Getting sick of her thinking I have some elaborate plot to keep the kids away from her, just because I'm trying to do fun things with them.

After thinking about the custody arrangement some more, think I'm going to start enforcing the overnights at WW's house. She keeps saying how she wants and expects 50% custody, but hasn't spent more than a few hours/week with the boys in months. She's been living the fantasy kid-free party girl lifestyle. Honestly, I don't think she really wants the kids there, just the support money that goes along with 50% custody. So I'm gonna give it to her. Up to now, we've been giving the kids the option of whether to stay or not, and they almost always choose to be here with me.

Going forward, I'm not letting that be an option. I actually prefer that they be home with me, but I'm sick of being the excuse that they don't spend time with mom. She needs to get a fresh taste of dealing with what it's like to have boys fighting with each other every few minutes, making all the meals over a 24-hour period, getting them baths, washing clothes, etc. Right now, I'm doing 95% of the work. My gut feeling is that it's going to overwhelm her and she'll be asking to go back to what we had. But at least then it will be her choice, and she can quit whining about how I'm in a competition to make myself look better than her to the kids, and that's why they always choose to be with me.

dwh

what is best for the kids in this?

You are keeping a log aren't you?

V

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

dwh

what is best for the kids in this?

You are keeping a log aren't you?

V

Yes, daily log of time spent by each of us with kids. It's about 90-95% me at this point. So after that last post, I actually found out from S18 that WW called and spoke with an attorney for 10 minutes this afternoon AFTER we sent all those TMs about custody. Here I was feeling a little bad for her, like she actually missed the kids and wanted to spend more time with them. Now I feel the whole thing was a setup to try and get me to agree to sign something. I feel so betrayed. Needless to say, I won't be signing a thing before my own attorney reviews and approves. I feel like I can't trust a word WW says anymore. I know that's par for the course for a wayward - believe none of what they say. But it hurts to realize how badly my own W has turned on the man she committed to love and cherish.

So I may sit down and discuss custody with her but I'm not signing a thing and I don't plan on giving her any more money either. I had started to feel bad about the kids and was going to try and help with meals. Now I think she would probably just use it to hire her own attorney and quickly file. I want to be fair and would love for the kids to actually spend more time with mom, but it's reached a point I don't dare trust her with anything. As time goes on, I'm actually starting to not like my own W, let alone love her. Detaching is becoming much easier with these revelations but I am starting to seriously doubt I will ever want to reconcile once we get a few more months into this process.

Your instincts are good I think at this point. If she needs food for the kids send a parcel of goodies instead of cash. Or a charged gift card for groceries.

Your log is important, back it up with text copies and other things like emails. Including to third parties

For instance to MIL: have you seen WW she was due to collect the kids

To WW: Are you OK, we missed you yesterday, I will do breakfast, take kids etc.......

You can copy your L FYI you know

Then go for a variation on fins. You will need more than just a couple of weeks, you may need a pattern.

V

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

Then go for a variation on fins. You will need more than just a couple of weeks, you may need a pattern.
V

If you are talking about the log history, I've got a solid 2 months right now, plus another 3-4 weeks spread out intermittently. Unfortunately, I was not very diligent at the beginning but have been solid as a rock since early July. Even if she were to file tomor, it would be another 3-4 weeks before we met with the court to decide temp custody, meaning I would have nearly 3 months of history showing WW only spending a few hours/week with 2 of the kids, and almost none with the others. Now, she always CLAIMS she wants more time and tries to blame me in every way possible for why she doesn't see them more but the reality is she simply chooses not to make it a priority in her life. I have certainly not stood in the way of any of the boys spending more time with mom.

I'm going to drop the subject of discussing custody for now and see if she brings it up again. In the mean time, I just keep logging every day. I've got quite a TM history between me and several family members as well, should it come to that, which would show the same sort of thoughts as what I post on this board. My attorney says the logs should be enough, and that they will also question not only me and WW, but each of the kids as well to determine reality. I have strongly encouraged each of my boys to do nothing but tell the truth about time with each of us. It's sad, but I just want what's best for them, and I think that right now, that means majority of their time with me. I hope for that to not always be the case, but until WW comes out of her fog and starts prioritizing kids over OM and her own needs, that is how I am going to proceed.

Had a meeting with the school this morning regarding S10. As mentioned, he's on the autistic spectrum and we're still trying to figure out exactly where he is going to attend and any special accommodations that the school will provide. WW attended as well, and sat at the other end of the table, about as far away from me as possible. Meeting went fine, we both contributed, and then walked out to the parking lot together.

Talked for a few minutes and she reassured me that she was in this with me, and didn't want me to feel like a single parent. Discussed needing to modify the parenting schedule, as she wants to start keeping the kids overnight on a more regular basis, which I am fine with. Told her we need to take the choice away from them and just state that is how it's going to be. Still not sure that's what she really wants, but I need to let her see for herself. My big concern is she keeps trying to bring OM into the picture and saying that he may need to babysit on days where the kids stay the night and she has to work the next day. I am VERY uncomfortable with the idea but not sure I have much choice. I've already ran a criminal background check on him and found nothing.

So we agreed to think about schedules and meet soon to discuss and finalize a plan. She did comment again on my weight loss and how good I looked. I was dressed up for the meeting in business casual and even had cologne. Always look your best, right? It was funny that the school principal walked up on us as we were talking and made a comment about how great I looked. He hadn't seen me in a few months. He kept going on about it, and then at the last minute looked at my wife and said, oh you look good too. LOL. That seems to be happening a lot lately. I had an old friend yesterday who I hadn't seen in a while say I looked 10 years younger.

So I think I came across as calm, overall upbeat, and with an attitude of cooperation. WW seemed to me like she was still processing some regret, or guilt, or something. She seemed almost a little stressed, and I have no idea why. But I feel good about our talk, and after we went our separate ways, I'm not even moping about it. I really am detaching and reaching a point where I'm not sure if I would want her back or not. In some ways, I'm glad I don't have to live with the decisions that she has made. I wasn't given a choice but am trying to make the best of what landed in my lap. WW will always have to deal with some level of regret, and uncertainty about whether she made the right call.

Oh, the one mistake I made was at the end of our talk, she reached over and gave me a hug, and out of instinct, I said Love You. It wasn't planned, but just sort of slipped out before I even realized it. She said it back, but I was kicking myself. Gotta be better prepared for those interactions.

You got this, 100% nailed.

You can love your W as the mother of your children. That's fine isn't it and leads to good co parenting.

V

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

You got this, 100% nailed.

You can love your W as the mother of your children. That's fine isn't it and leads to good co parenting.

V

Thanks V. I appreciate the positive spin on it, and you are right. I can and do love her as the mother of my children, in addition to as my W. When I said it, was just a quick "love you", like you say to say your mom as you're leaving. Not gushy or anything, and it was almost like a gut reaction from years together. She returned it the same way after a second's hesitation. Think it caught her off guard, as I hadn't said it in several weeks.

One positive thing is that I think I did comfort her a little bit as far as thinking we're in some sort of competition to see who the kids like better. No idea why she has been feeling that way, but after talking, I think she was a little more calm on that front at least. I pretty much went along with every suggestion she had about shared custody, because they were all perfectly reasonable. Guess it's hard to argue with someone when they just agree.

Been having a bit of a hard time again today. I think that seeing and talking with WW for a few minutes set me back. It was the most time we had spent together in 3 or 4 weeks. The convo went well, with some discussion about kids and custody arrangements, with an agreement to meet soon to switch up the schedule. She did make one comment regarding S15 and S10 and how they never come over and she would like to see them, but didn't feel comfortable coming here because I was always so "cold" to her. Now, I don't feel I am cold, but probably do act distant and uninterested. I suggested that she was free to set up a time to come visit whenever she wanted and I would be happy to leave the house for 2-3 hours. I thought she would be happy, but instead she sort of frowned, like it wasn't the answer she wanted. I'm mind reading, but I feel like she still wants us to be best friends, and was hoping I would maybe suggest we all hang out as a family. She seemed very happy with that arrangement back when we were trying to make it work, and before I woke up to the cake eating.

Anyway, haven't heard from WW today at all, but she will be picking up S15 today to take him out for a bday dinner, so he's now S16! I've been kind of feeling sad and lonely, but keeping busy, which helps. I was with some friends last night, who used to also be friends with WW, and we took a group photo, which they posted on FB, along with a comment about having a good time. I'm sure WW saw it and probably got upset, since she can't stand them anymore, but I don't care. Part of me was happy knowing she was likely to get upset. I don't feel any need to monitor my relationships based on who she does or doesn't approve.

So WW took S16 out to dinner and now the rest of the group is at her place having cake & ice cream. Just me home alone for next couple hours. I hate that this is how it's going to be on special events now. The kids either being with me, or with mom. Not a complete family. I'm not looking forward to the holidays this year at all. How do people get through that first Thanksgiving and Christmas living like this? I'm sure we'll work out a schedule but I dread the thought of possibly being w/o my kids on Christmas day.

Had a close call earlier, and almost lost it with WW via TM. I offered to throw my bday gift for S16 in with hers, and just say the whole things was from Mom & Dad. She agreed, thought it was a good idea, but then at the last minute threw in the fact that OM had contributed $20 and she wanted his name on the bday card too. I initially agreed for THIS time only, and replied I didn't want that to be the expectation every time we gave the kids gifts. No reply from WW. Then I started thinking about it and getting angry. Was about ready to send another TM saying forget the whole thing, I would buy my gifts, and she could buy hers with OM, but as I picked up my phone, saw she had replied Don't worry, he's more of a 1-gift kind of guy. I had specifically mentioned Xmas earlier so I'm sure that's what she was talking about. So instead, I just said OK. I want to be fair and not have the kids always thinking it's a competition between us, but I don't wanna see the 3 of us on the same card very often.

So crisis averted i suppose. It took some effort to bite my tongue about having OM on the bday card today, but I wanted it to be a happy occasion for S16 and WW, so starting up an argument right in the middle of their dinner would not have been a positive or mature thing to do. I like to think I was being the bigger person, but it was a stretch. I hope she doesn't keep pushing that agenda of putting OM on equal ground with the 2 actual parents, or I will have a major issue.

Had my first training as a bartender this afternoon. Will be helping out with volunteering at the local clubhouse for that charity. It was dead slow but got to hang out with an old friend, and met a new one. Think I'm going to really enjoy it and will be a great way to meet people. My WW spent over a year bartending there and loved it. Wish i would have been more involved at the time, as I'm starting to see the appeal.

Heading out soon to go to cousin's wedding and will be there most of the night. Taking S18 and S8, others don't wanna go. Feel like I'm doing pretty good on GAL lately, and it definitely helps keep my mind off things when I stay busy and social. S18 told me today WW got her "biker" vest for being the girlfriend of one of the club members. Guess she was really excited. Woo hoo. What an accomplishment - she's having an A with a guy who belongs to a biker club. Ugh. I shouldn't even care but just bugs me.

Had a great time at my cousin's wedding. The reception was in an old barn, and the weather was beautiful for it. Caught up with a lot of my extended family. Went to bed feeling pretty good.

Woke up this morning and had the usual few minutes of laying there and feeling depressed. Finally got around and went to church, which definitely helped my mood. Stayed for around an hour after the service to help move a bunch of school supplies for a charity drive they were running. Now back home and having a hard time again. The weather is cloudy and rainy, which always seems to make things worse. Sometimes I just look around at other couples and see how happy they are, and it makes me wish so badly for what I had.

It's getting easier every day and I'm staying pretty active but feel like I've still got a long ways to go. With the new job on the horizon, I'm getting constant questions from friends and family about when I plan to file. When I say some time early next year, I usually get to watch their jaws drop. Nobody understands why I would want to wait so long. Even when I try to explain it, and say I need to be ready, people have a hard time understanding why I would still have any feelings left for WW after what she has done. I guess you really can't comprehend the depth of love and loss if you haven't experienced it firsthand. So I won't be letting anyone sway my opinion. This is my life and I'll do what I feel is right when I know the time is right.

Got taken to lunch today by the company who just hired me. That was nice. Spent 90 minutes really getting to know the young man who has been my recruiter. Then picked up a couple of hours of side work for a customer I've known for years. Not much planned for the evening, but WW is taking the usual 2 boys (S18 and S8) bowling and back to her place for a few hours. She asked me to feed them first as she is low on money (a pretty common situation the past few weeks).

I'll probably just stay home with S16 and S10 and get some housework done. Only a week left before I'm back at a full time job so need to get some laundry caught up. I've already got evening plans for Tuesday and Thursday this week, plus lunch plans Thursday and Friday. Doing pretty well at GAL overall, and while I'm busy it's been getting a lot easier to not think about WW.

I'm starting to think about casually dating, but not decided yet. I don't want anything serious and no plans to be unfaithful, but I think it would be a nice distraction. And I honestly think it would help me detach even further from my W. I want to know that there are other women out there who find me attractive and interesting. And if I start to develop any feelings, then it would be a motivator for me to go ahead and file for D. It's not what I want, but the more time that passes, the more I become discouraged looking at the path back to a healthy M. I mean, she's been cheating for almost 5 years! And with at least 4 OM. How do I get past that? And is she even capable of the work it would require to fix herself? I'm taking it day by day but starting to imagine myself more often with someone new; someone with no sorted history of betrayal.

Originally Posted By: dwh15

I'm starting to think about casually dating, but not decided yet. I don't want anything serious and no plans to be unfaithful, but I think it would be a nice distraction. And I honestly think it would help me detach even further from my W. I want to know that there are other women out there who find me attractive and interesting. And if I start to develop any feelings, then it would be a motivator for me to go ahead and file for D. It's not what I want, but the more time that passes, the more I become discouraged looking at the path back to a healthy M. I mean, she's been cheating for almost 5 years! And with at least 4 OM.

Not telling you what you should and should not do here as far as the dating. I will share during all this I too got to a point I felt the urge to get off the bench and throw up a couple to see if I could just hit the rim.

Lesson I learned, I was not over my W, not ready to put myself out there more than just have fun and show off some of the traits I knew women found attractive. I went out on a couple dates, could have pursued more but didn't knowing that I was solely using the 2 girls as a crutch, as a boost to my ego, in fact filling it with the wrong kind of gas, this was not the confidence I wanted ... was not from within so I pulled back and looked at who I was and what I wanted. Just because W was involved in an A, did not make it ok for me to do the same ... I decided to honor my vows, to not allow my loneliness to control me nor my actions, when my D was final and I felt I was ready to give 100% of myself to another then I would be open to a R .. not a day quicker. Turns out that day never came and I am ok with that.

Your choice, but as uR says ... do this from a place of strength not out of emotional neediness.

Originally Posted By: dwh15

How do I get past that? And is she even capable of the work it would require to fix herself? I'm taking it day by day but starting to imagine myself more often with someone new; someone with no sorted history of betrayal.

I am not sure, but I do know its not from another woman, the bottom of a bottle or from a pill .... its from alot of work, tons of time, and a belief in yourself. What happened to you will have to be processed, you will carry this with you in your M, or in any relationship you have ... its not something you can just drop off and disregard. This is why you have to rebuild you, keep working on yourself ... let things play out as they will.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

Originally Posted By: dwh15

How do I get past that? And is she even capable of the work it would require to fix herself? I'm taking it day by day but starting to imagine myself more often with someone new; someone with no sorted history of betrayal.

I am not sure, but I do know its not from another woman, the bottom of a bottle or from a pill .... its from alot of work, tons of time, and a belief in yourself. What happened to you will have to be processed, you will carry this with you in your M, or in any relationship you have ... its not something you can just drop off and disregard. This is why you have to rebuild you, keep working on yourself ... let things play out as they will.

Thanks Cali. I needed to hear from someone with a solid outside perspective. It's hard when you keep hearing from every single one of your friends, and most of your family, that you need to let go, file, and get on with your life. Plenty of encouragement to date, and even a couple of offers to set me up. I think they all believe that the way to move on is to find another woman. I know it's not the answer and have resisted the temptation up to this point, but the loneliness wears on me, and I'm still struggling with rejection and low self-esteem.

I believe that you're right though. I need to keep working on myself, get to the point I am OK with being alone, and as far over WW as I can possibly get. Maybe not completely over her, as I'm not sure that day will ever come, but enough that I can realistically commit to another R. Otherwise, I'm no better than her - trying to slap a band-aid over a gushing emotional wound, and using whatever pour soul happens to come into my path to make me feel better, however temporary that may be. Thanks for the reality check.

"I'm starting to think about casually dating, but not decided yet. I don't want anything serious and no plans to be unfaithful"

You do realize this is hypocritical right?

Quote:

I'm starting to think about casually dating, but not decided yet. I don't want anything serious and no plans to be unfaithful, but I think it would be a nice distraction. And I honestly think it would help me detach even further from my W. I want to know that there are other women out there who find me attractive and interesting. And if I start to develop any feelings, then it would be a motivator for me to go ahead and file for D.

I'm with Mr Bond. This is silly. You were with her for 20+ years and it has been 4 months and you want a distraction. Educate yourself on statistics... Statistics show that in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. Contributing factors....People don't develop the necessary relationship skills to navigate any relationship and they move on early looking for comfort and or distractions.

Get a hobby. Contribute to your local area. Coach. Mountain Bike. Enter a poker tournament. GAL. Anything. But there is no such thing as casual dating for a person who has been married with kids and is 4 months out after spouse left.

You aren't even D'ed yet. Before you do anything that could possibly affect her ask yourself these questions...
1 - How does this affect my kids?
2 - How does help me reach my goals?

Thanks guys. Bond and mahhhty jumped in late, but if you look above, Cali already set me straight and I replied that I agreed. It's actually closer to 5 months since WW left, based on DDay 1, but she didn't "technically" move out until DDay 2. Still, she hasn't really lived her since early March. But in the big scheme of things, you're right. It's not a lot of time compared to the 24 years we were together. I have been keeping busy with GAL activities and having a lot of fun doing so. Making plenty of new friends, and reconnecting with old ones. Attending my first ever 4-man golf scramble this Saturday.

It's just hard sometimes. It doesn't sound like a lot of time, but that 5 months feels like an eternity. Of course, every day I seem to change my mind but I'm trying to commit to a year separated before I file. Then, it's another 6 months before final in this state. By 18 months out, I really hope that I'm well on my way to living a mostly happy life, free of daily thoughts about WW. Well, that is assuming nothing changes between now and then, but I honestly don't see her coming out of her A fog before around 2 years out, and I'm not waiting that long, simply out of financial concerns. We just crossed 18 years of M, and if I hit 20 years, which would be May 2017, then the court will potentially consider permanent spousal support. So that is my cutoff - I will be divorced or on the road to reconciling by late 2016. Doesn't mean that I can't continue after D, but I don't see myself wanting to keep any hope alive for that long. Doesn't mean I wouldn't still consider being with WW again if I were single, but I don't plan on letting the current sitch go past 2 years.

Had a pretty good day. Picked up a few hours of work on a side job, then met my cousin for dinner and drinks. After that, got some more training as a bartender and helped close down the club, then home by 11pm. Stayed active, had a good time, and day went by quickly. Still thinking about WW but not constantly and it's not nearly as painful as a few weeks ago.

Kids were with mom yesterday and when they came home, I heard from S18 that mom seemed stressed most of the time and glued to her phone all night. She was apparently fighting with OM and that was her focus. He said it seems to be a pretty regular thing with those two and happens every couple of weeks. They always seem to make up by the next day but the whole relationship just seems toxic and unstable. I'm getting beyond worrying about when or if it falls apart, in terms of giving me a chance. But I do worry about how it affects the kids and whether it is healthy for them to even be around WW when her primary focus is the latest argument with OM. I continue to log time spent by both me and WW each day, and will be presenting it as evidence when/if we get to the point of officially determining custody.

I know my W loves her kids but she clearly isn't thinking straight and doesn't seem to be making them a priority in her life right now. It's amazing and deeply sad to have to say that about one of the most generous and caring mothers I ever saw, up until a few years ago, but it is current reality. There are no other priorities for me - those boys are my life. I know that I need to be the rock for them and I will do whatever is required to protect them, even if it means going after a lion's share of the custody. My W says she wants more time with them, but never takes action on it. In fact, any time a social event comes up, she will prioritize that over time with the kids, and often cancels due to that kind of thing. I hate to say it, but feel that she only sees dollar signs when she starts talking about custody. She wants the financial support w/o the responsibility. I'm prepared to fight and continue to hope and pray that some day my WW wakes up.

What does your L say about filing?

Would the initiative be best from you?

This is the time to follow L advice. Absolutely to do that. I think so, and these matters are private to you and L. If asked " oh, I am unsure" then change the topic.

With regard to dating, I understand why you might casually think about this and I agree with MrBond, until the ink is dry then its poor role modelling. There is more work on you. I think what you need is good old fashioned GAL, honest to goodness get out and enjoy yourself with your mates GAL, new activityGAL, old activities GAL, hobbies GAL kids and dwh GAL. work GAL to come, how exciting.

I am very pleased to read more detachment and so very thrilled you are putting the boys first in your life. And dwh needs a life, your boys can see you doing healthy things with your life and having a life, holding your head with pride.

It isn't for me to say, but I am so proud of you, I am shedding a tear of compassion as I type. There is a man who is becoming the best he can be. More steps to do, a work in progress.

Smiling

V

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

What does your L say about filing?

Would the initiative be best from you?
V

I have asked my attorney about this on several occasions. He assures me that there is no advantage to being the first to file, and thought it was actually a good idea to continue waiting, assuming I am in no hurry to be D. Until someone files, there is no court obligation to pay WW support. Also, it gives me more time to establish a solid history of time spent with kids. The more time that goes on with me being the primary custodial parent, the more likely the court will lean towards keeping things as they have been, meaning I get custody. Neither I nor my WW has brought up the D word in several months, but I have heard that she has been speaking with an attorney. I suspect she would like to file but is having a hard time raising the money to actually hire someone. I'm certainly not helping her along, as time plays to my advantage.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

With regard to dating, I understand why you might casually think about this and I agree with MrBond, until the ink is dry then its poor role modelling. There is more work on you. I think what you need is good old fashioned GAL, honest to goodness get out and enjoy yourself with your mates GAL, new activityGAL, old activities GAL, hobbies GAL kids and dwh GAL. work GAL to come, how exciting.

I am very pleased to read more detachment and so very thrilled you are putting the boys first in your life. And dwh needs a life, your boys can see you doing healthy things with your life and having a life, holding your head with pride.

It isn't for me to say, but I am so proud of you, I am shedding a tear of compassion as I type. There is a man who is becoming the best he can be. More steps to do, a work in progress.
V

Thank you so much V. If you read above, I got hit with a few 2x4s on the dating idea, and agree with everyone. There are plenty of reasons NOT to do it, and I will be following the great advice given here. Just needed to be reminded of the reasons.

I feel I am doing really well on GAL and am certainly enjoying getting out and meeting new people, making new friends. Actually excited about starting the new job next week. I plan to continue working on that, and myself, becoming the best father I can be.

In regards to WW, I still miss her, but the days are getting easier, I'm sleeping better, and the morning not nearly so depressing as they once were. I feel myself detaching and know that if there is ever a chance to R with my W, it will be starting all over in a brand new M. The old one is dead and buried. And if we are not together and H and W, then I really do hope to reach a place where we can at least be friends.

Well, I broke the news of the new job to WW tonight. I started out sending it in a text, then she immediately called. She said there was too much to discuss to stick to texting. So we talked for around 30 minutes; the longest we've spoken in several weeks. She did the basic congrats, asked some specifics, and then of course wanted to know how much it paid and if she could rely on financial help in the near future. I didn't give her salary info, but just said it wasn't as good as I had hoped but better than unemployment. Also told her no help at all until end of September, but then we could discuss. I am considering giving her some assistance to help with meals on nights the kids come over, even if it's in the form of a gift card to a local grocery store. I'll have to think about it.

Also told her i would be covering me and kids on new insurance but not her. It was simply too expensive. She seemed a little surprised but said she understood and that she would be applying for state assistance. I told her that she should and was surprised that she had not already done so. She was apparently waiting to see how things panned out with my job sitch first. Anyway, I put that idea to rest, so now she'll be trying for Medicaid. She may as well get used to reality now.

She will be coming to my house for a couple of hours 2 days next week in the middle of the afternoon to check on kids and feed them lunch. They don't start school until following week and I didn't feel comfortable having them home alone most of the day. I could have driven home every day at lunch, which is what I will end up doing the days she does not come, but it saves me some trouble and will give her time with S16 and S10, whom she rarely sees. She actually seemed pleased about the idea and was surprised I suggested it. She also mentioned taking the rest of her clothes, which I agreed was a good idea, although it did hurt to hear it.

She went into a little bit of info about her job and how she was worried about losing it. I listened closely and validated where possible, never offering opinions. I finally told her I had to get going, although I felt she wanted to continue talking. So overall, pretty proud of how I handled the convo. I feel as if she still really wants us to be good friends and could tell she missed talking to me, but I'm not opening that door again. I admit, I'm feeling a little down now, and it was really nice speaking to her so comfortably, but I stuck to DB principles. It's still early in my journey, and I know that anything can happen in the next few months.

Having a harder time than usual this morning. I think that long phone convo with WW last night took a toll. It had been a while and I forgot about the pain which close contact with her still causes. I'm trying to snap out of it and have a couple of fun, busy days ahead so I'm sure I'll be fine. Need to make sure I maintain my distance though, and stick with texting for now. Hopefully I will reach a point where I can see her and not have it send me reeling for a couple days.

dwh

This stuff is hard .. very hard. But it does get better. Congrats on the job, and also on the way you handled the convo with her ... alot of good DB principles were used and that's a big step for you .. no backslides right .. chalk that up to a positive.

Get out of the house and GAL , do something out of your comfort zone .. its in those places I found the most growth. I recall going to a friends backyard party where I knew NO ONE cept her and her husband and they were busy entertaining so I bounced around and just struck up conversations with people ... realized how sheltered I allowed myself to be. By the end of the day, was not like I had 50 new friends ... but I did leave knowing I was ok, not some hermit who was going to crawl in his cave and die.

Keep your chin up ... it gets easier.

Thanks Cali. I really hope it does get easier. Today has been a real setback in terms of emotion. I actually broke down and cried in the car a little while ago. This is the worst I've felt in a while and no idea why, unless it was that phone call yesterday. I've been out keeping busy but WW on my mind constantly. Guess I really need to avoid seeing her for a while. Felt I was doing fine with just texting every couple of days, and missed her, but not like this. Today, it's been a real struggle to not wanna call her and just ask what in the he11 is she thinking? So much pain, and for what? But I know it wouldn't do any good. Maybe make her feel guilty for a few minutes, but then reset any progress I may have made with her missing me over the past couple months. Right now, I really hate OM. I know he only owns half the blame for this, but I also know he is using WW as a crutch for his own emotional needs, and is going to eventually dump her when he's done. I just wish he would get it over with and give her a chance to bottom out and maybe start to heal.

Sorry your feeling down dwh15. I am in a different situation then you, but the sadness is the same. I just wanted you to know as you sit there you are not alone.

Better days are coming, I just don't know it will be in my life time.

Originally Posted By: dwh15

Thanks Cali. I really hope it does get easier. Today has been a real setback in terms of emotion. I actually broke down and cried in the car a little while ago. This is the worst I've felt in a while and no idea why, unless it was that phone call yesterday. I've been out keeping busy but WW on my mind constantly. Guess I really need to avoid seeing her for a while. Felt I was doing fine with just texting every couple of days, and missed her, but not like this. Today, it's been a real struggle to not wanna call her and just ask what in the he11 is she thinking? So much pain, and for what? But I know it wouldn't do any good. Maybe make her feel guilty for a few minutes, but then reset any progress I may have made with her missing me over the past couple months. Right now, I really hate OM. I know he only owns half the blame for this, but I also know he is using WW as a crutch for his own emotional needs, and is going to eventually dump her when he's done. I just wish he would get it over with and give her a chance to bottom out and maybe start to heal.

I feel for you dwh. It's so easy to fixate on OM. "If he weren't here, then I'd still be happily married!" But it isn't that simple. You know that. If it weren't him today, it would be someone else next week. I'm in the same funk today...trying not to focus on W/OM. It's hard not to. But he's the symptom....not the problem.

Thanks for the support guys. Met a new friend for dinner and couple drinks tonight, and feeling a little better now. This poor guy actually lost his own wife to suicide about 4 months ago, so he's in even worse shape than me. It helps us both to be able to talk about things. I'm really expanding my social circle and getting to the point I feel like I'm going to end up having as many or more friends as I had way back in college days, and that was a LOT. Looking back, I can see how much different I was then that what I became over the past few years, and I sort of see how my wife became disillusioned. I think I lost a lot of what initially attracted her, and not only that, but I realized that those same things made me happy too.

I don't know where it all began to change, but somewhere along the way of having kids and a full time job, we just fell into a rut. I'm trying to rediscover me, and what makes dwh happy as a person. That's going to make my kids happier, and make me a more fun and attractive person to everyone, including WW. It's still a long road ahead but I'm trying to take it one step at a time and trust those that have come before me who say it does get better.

Well, just had a nasty phone convo with WW. I probably shouldn't have even answered but I did. Started off pleasant and she asked me what I was doing tonight. I mentioned I was taking her nephews out to dinner and she lost it. Wanted to know why I couldn't help her financially. Really laying on the pity party about how she had to ask OM for money just to rent bowling shoes for the kids tonight. I said "what's wrong with that. You're with him now. He should be helping you."

Then she got into how I made promises a few months ago that I would help her financially, and kept accusing me of breaking my promises. Well, that set me over the edge. And I was like serious, you're going to throw stones at me. You mean like the promises you made the day you took your wedding vows? She replied, "serious, you wanna go there?" Then it kept escalating, and I told her I didn't have to explain my financial situation to her. She said, "no, not to me". When I asked what that meant, she just repeated. Finally, I told her that I did plan on helping her with food money for kids when I had regular paychecks coming in, but that I was being nice and had no obligation to give her a dime. The last thing she said was "no, you don't have to give me a dime...yet" and hung up.

So she was obviously threatening that she plans to file. I almost called her back but then figured what's the point. There's no way to win. If I cave and give her what she wants, I'm a doormat. If I don't, then I'm a jerk. Right now, I really don't know if I even want to try anymore. She is so wrapped up in her own selfish world that I don't see her ever coming out of it. There's no consideration for me or my feelings and the damage she has done - it's all about her. So I am prepared for the coming D paperwork, and will be using my accumulated child logs to go after as much custody as I can get. It's not in the spirit of being mean, but I really don't trust my W to have the best interests of the kids at heart right now, over her own selfish concerns.

Feeling so frustrated, and really, just done with the whole situation.

dwh

Ok ... breathe buddy.

Look at this from above, you going out to dinner gets your WW spinning, in a jealous "Oh so he can afford to go out to dinner while I have to borrow money for HIS kids to bowl" ... understandable as the reality is really starting to conflict with the fantasy she has in her mind. The BGP are bunching up an bit and its much easier to spew at you than it is for her to smell the crock-pot-of-poo she has been slow cooking.

So you had it out, no big. You could later revisit this, validate that it must be hard to be strapped finacially .. just think about a spin where you can simply understand how she feels ... you do not have to fix it, nor should you come at it from a place of "Well you chose this path not me" .... simply allow her to know you are trying to understand how she FEELS without going in to rescue her.

She will toss that D out there because its the only thing she has left to hurt you with right? ....Fights, BD, leaving, OM, OM2 .. whats left? Next time, do not take that bait, let it float by, validate and then end the conversation and go about your day ... live and learn right?

There are stages to this .. not taking the bait will take you to a new level.

Dwh, reality is hitting WW.

Let it. Let her fund her own PA or OM to do it. Good for you.

Send a grocery basket for the kids or the card to buy food. If she can afford to go out then she can afford food. Her choice.

And no you are not a jerk, far from it. You are getting on with your life. I think WW will be in for surprises when she does plead her case, especially if you get majority custody.

V

Stay the course. Guilt trips are normal. Your doing your best in a very tough situation

Take care Rd

So WW called back an hour after that first call, this time in tears. Guess I should have expected as much. So we talked a few more minutes, much more calmly this time. I tried to validate but told her I didn't appreciate the hypocrisy of someone who had lied as much as her accusing me of breaking promises. Anyway, in the end I sent S18 over with $60 to help her with food for the week. I have been providing dinner for the kids every night and told her that this money came with the expectation that she would be making dinner for the kids on nights she had them. I also said that was it for this week, and we could talk again next week, depending on how the next few days went. She seemed satisfied, gave me a thank you, then had to go because OM was trying to call.

I went ahead with my plans for the evening and met nephews out of town and took them to dinner. After, we went to a bar and they bought me a couple of drinks. These nephews are her sister's kids, btw. I tried not to give them too many details but they know the basics and both of them are extremely upset with WW. One of them says he refuses to see her or be in the same room. He recently had a long term girlfriend leave him for another guy, so the situation is very sensitive to him and he has no respect for anyone who would do that kind of thing. Overall, I had a good time, then headed home. I feel bad for my W, as she has lost most of her family connections and they have all sort of piled on my side. That wasn't my intention but a result of them forming their own opinions after they heard the news. And I don't feel that I should need to break off from that part of my family just because they are related to WW. I have known them over over 20 years and consider them just as much my family as hers. I've known my nephews since they were 5 years old. Again, the whole thing is just sad.

WW did call very briefly while I was out tonight to ask if I had checked on S16 and S10, who didn't come to her place. Told her I had not, so she was sending S18 home to check on them. The whole convo only lasted a minute and I wished her a good night and hung up. Tried to sound in good spirits, while she sounded a little stressed.

So anyway, I was peeved enough that at least I'm not feeling down tonight. I know the anger isn't healthy but it's such a relief from the constant sadness that I wish I could hold onto it for a few days. Right now, I really am feeling like I just want to totally let go, file, and move on. Let her enjoy the life she has chosen, along with all of the coming pitfalls. But I know that within a day or two, I'll probably be wishing she would come to her senses again. It's so hard to let go, and she doesn't deserve me even giving her another chance. No idea what I'm going to do next but hoping for a peaceful night sleep NOT thinking about WW.

Dwh

This is a 2x4 if WW Is going to wake from her fog she needs to suffer the consequences of her behaviour. This was an important opportunity to truth dart instead of soothing. WW behaved very badly yet you soothed her!

She has you wrapped around her little finger,

Her manulative tactics and faux regret worked, not only that but she then spoke immediately to OM. you had to get off the phone because OM as trying to ring her! Please see this as inconsistent with remorse.

Please stop pandering to this WW, it is counter intuitive but every time you do you
loose ground and WW respect for you. I believe you are setting yourself further back and WW succeeds in obtaining cash to spend so all her own spare resources go to her R with OM. It's like putting cash in the beggars tin and they then go get gin. If you give them a sandwich instead they can't.

Stop, WW has sacked you as her H, yet you are still behaving as if you were still responsible.

V

Dwh

Maybe I was a little too direct?

Are we good?

V

No issues here V. Haven't posted today because I have been out all day with GAL activities. Had a 4-man golf scramble starting at 10am, which took nearly 6 hours. Then back to the local clubhouse for a dinner, some drinks and playing horseshoes with some friends. Didn't get home until around 8pm. Full day having fun and mostly enjoyed it, other than having a few down moments because nearly everyone I was with was a couple.

I see what you're saying about WW. My thought was that I am already paying to provide meals to the kids every night. The money is to help WW buy food and have her prepare meals. I made that very clear. If she does not follow through on making meals, and I don't just mean mac n cheese either, then there will be no more cash assistance. I only gave her enough to get through one week, with no promises about any more coming, other than we would see how it went.

I'm keeping track of what the kids eat, because I ask them every time they come home. I also find out if WW spent any other money on them. So far, it seems like she really is using it to help the kids. She took S18 out today and got him a baseball cap. I suppose I could refuse to help at all, but I'm trying to let the kids have a relationship with mom, and not get them caught in the middle of all this. If I feel that I'm being taken advantage of, I will immediately stop.

On other news, I met one of WW's supposed very good friends tonight. I've known about her for a while, and heard her name dozens of times, but never met her in person. Her and her husband were at the clubhouse for my charity, and I recognized their names. Introduced myself as the H of WW. They both looked shocked, then he shook my hand and she gave me a big hug. Turns out they knew what had been going on, felt very bad for me, and had discontinued spending time with WW quite a while ago. WW had always said this friend was one of the places she was frequently spending overnights and I found out that she actually only ever spent 1 night there in the past year. One! WW had told me she was over there at least 2-3 times a week for the past year before DDay.

The sheer amount of deceit continues to boggle my mind. So the upside is that we exchanged cell numbers and I have an open invitation to come and visit them any time I want. They have met all my kids and seem like really nice people. I keep picking up the friends that WW is leaving behind. My social circle is rapidly expanding while hers continues to shrink. I know that she sees the activity on my FB page, because she mentioned some of these friends recently on our phone call, which I was suprised to hear; I had assumed she didn't bother checking on me at all.

So my WW is noticing my GAL with all the new activity and with the stuff I do with the kids. She knows I have a new job and am going to be doing well financially while she struggles just to put food on the table. I have no doubt her fantasy will continue to crumble, and then no idea what's going to happen. I've come to the realization that she really is troubled and needs serious therapy to recover. I will not allow her back into the house with me and the boys until she starts down that path. It may never come, but happily, I really am beginning to believe the rest of us will be Ok regardless.

Pretty slow day. Spent the morning cleaning, then did some shopping and finally took kids down to sister's house to swim. Stopped and got ice cream on the way. Kids had a great time and I got to catch up with sis for first time in a couple of weeks. Had a couple of brief TMs with WW on plans for the day, since she had thought they might come over for lunch, but nobody really wanted to, since they had seen her the past 2 days and were excited about the ice cream and swimming. But to be fair, I did offer for kids to go see mom first for a few, then come back and spend time with me. I told her I'm not in a competition to make the kids like me better and she replied she appreciated it and said no worries if the kids chose to be with me today.

So overall not a bad day. Not feeling too depressed or anything, just a little lonely and sad at times. But it's mixed in with good times so there's a balance. Whatever anger I had from the other day is gone and I'm back to holding steady with DB principles for at least the next few months. Doing my best to establish a working co-parent relationship with WW, which allows for open communication on the kids. We had reached a point where everything was going thru S18 or S8 via TM, and it was the source of mix-ups and hurt feelings on more than one occasion. I told WW that we need to communicate directly on anything related to kids, and not put them in the middle, which S18 is really getting frustrated with. Feels like we're getting there.

So first day on the new job behind me. It went pretty well, although a little slow. Met a lot of the folks who will be on my team, and had a nice conversation with the lady who sits right next to me. Turns out she went thru a D several years ago, and actually met her current H where we both work. She said it's a friendly group and good place to meet people. She also encouraged me to give everything at least another 9-12 months to settle down before attempting to date. Get comfortable with myself. Of course it's great advice, but nice to hear it reinforced, and nice to be right next to someone who I consider a success story after going through this. She was very friendly and positive.

I had to run home at lunch to check on the boys and get them some food, but fortunately it's only a 15 min drive so I had time to grab a bite and get back. Tomor WW is coming over for a couple of hours in the afternoon so I don't have to spend my entire lunch hour driving back and forth. I'm relieved about that, plus it will give her some time with the kids. She normally has them Monday nights but starting a dart league tonight so won't be with them. Still hasn't given me an alternate schedule to replace the missing night. I told her I was open to discussion when she was ready and don't feel a need to keep reminding her. Until she says otherwise, I guess she's down to just 2 nights/week and I'll have them the rest. Fine by me. I really missed the kids today and was glad to come home. Been a long time since I had to be in an office every day.

Made it through the day pretty well, only thinking about WW a few times. It got worse towards the end of the day, and fortunately I was able to bring up the DB site on my cell and browse for a few minutes, which always helps me relax. Not sure why; guess it just gives me a little hope and peace of mind. So need to get the kids dinner, try to clean the house a little, then get ready for bed and start again tomorrow. It's gonna take a few days adjusting to this new schedule, but happy to have things to keep me busy.

Dwh, a great day at work. Sounds like you can settle in, just peachy.

V

Well, pretty strange day. Work went fine again and I had a meeting with the school to discuss S10 at 4pm. WW had come to my house at 2pm so spend some time with the kids, then joined me at the school to attend the meeting. It lasted about an hour, then we both hung out in the parking lot after and talked for about 20 minutes. Mostly about S10, but also slipped into some conversation about how she had been spending her time and what I had been doing. It was really nice and the most comfortable we had been around each other in several weeks.

WW mentioned coming back to the house to pick up S10 and take him to dinner, since she rarely spends quality time with him. I told her it was a good idea, said I had to get going but to let me know. She called a few minutes later saying she was coming to get him. In the mean time, I had headed home, and noticed that when she was here earlier, she had taken 2 jewelry boxes, which mostly had her jewelry, but also had my wedding ring and some critical paperwork, such as titles to all our vehicles, SS cards for the kids, etc.

Well, I was upset that she simply took this w/o even asking, so confronted her when she came to get S10. I tried not to be mean about it, but said I wanted my wedding ring returned and all the paperwork. She got defensive and said that she had as much right to the kids SS cards as me. I decided not to escalate, but asked her to please check for my ring, and look through the paperwork and return anything that belongs to me. We were both getting snappy and she left with S10.

She sends a TM about 30 min later asking if I had plans to get the kids new backpacks or lunch boxes for school. I happened to be busy getting trained up bartending and didn't see the TM for about an hour. In the mean time, she had sent another one a few min later with just 2 question marks, like she was annoyed I didn't reply. When I finally saw the TMs, I replied sorry, I did not see them earlier and told her I had no plans for backpacks. I also sent a quick sorry for getting upset earlier and asked her again to just look for my wedding ring. No reply back.

I got home around 11pm, found out she had dropped off S10 around 9:30 and had taken him to dinner and out shopping. He got a new t-shirt and lunchbox. She also got a t-shirt for S8. They were both excited. So I sent WW a TM thanking her for getting those things and told her the kids seemed happy. Got a quick reply that she was glad, and that was it.

So overall sort of a mixed day of emotions. I enjoyed the convo in the parking lot, but the good feelings didn't last long when I realized about her taking the stuff, and got angry. The highs and lows are not nearly as bad as a few weeks ago but still bouncing around. I just can't figure out what I want. Sometimes I just think it would be easier to be friends with her, assuming I can totally let go of any hope for R. I feel myself moving towards that but not ready yet. I'm much stronger now about setting boundaries and sticking to them, so I'm not worried about being taken advantage of by WW, but I still think she would probably try to use me to her advantage if we went the "friends" route.

Ugh. The good news is I really enjoyed the bartending, got to know a lot more people, and everyone is really getting to know me. I even got hit on by a fairly attractive woman, but she had been drinking all night. Made me feel good anyway. So I'm heading to bed mostly feeling pretty good about the day. Hoping for a peaceful night's rest and another positive day tomorrow.

OK...so she's lied to you for a year or more...now she's used the kids as an excuse to get into your house and steal from you...

Do you have an L hired yet? What steps have you taken to ensure that she can't steal from you again?

I cannot urge you strongly enough to take decisive action. Let me ask you this- how would you respond if the baby sitter took your wedding ring and car titles? Seriously. She isn't your W anymore. She is an ex, with another man, living in another household, and she feels entitled to everything you own because she deserves it because it's your fault she's in that spot. All of her pain is your fault. Don't get drawn into discussion or debate with her. Protect your a$$ TODAY.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

OK...so she's lied to you for a year or more...now she's used the kids as an excuse to get into your house and steal from you...

Do you have an L hired yet? What steps have you taken to ensure that she can't steal from you again?

I cannot urge you strongly enough to take decisive action. Let me ask you this- how would you respond if the baby sitter took your wedding ring and car titles? Seriously. She isn't your W anymore. She is an ex, with another man, living in another household, and she feels entitled to everything you own because she deserves it because it's your fault she's in that spot. All of her pain is your fault. Don't get drawn into discussion or debate with her. Protect your a$$ TODAY.

I don't think you understand. I had asked WW to come and check on the kids today. Otherwise, I get to spend my lunch hour driving back and forth to do it. I was fine with the idea of her coming in and spending an hour or two quality time with the kids. I had no idea she was going to take those jewelry boxes. It was mostly her stuff and I would have been fine with it, except for the fact of my wedding ring and the car titles. I don't think she did it deliberately, but her reaction when confronted is what really bothered me. So I guess the answer is I need to get a keyed lock for my bedroom and I put anything of value that I don't want her snooping with in that room locked. We'll see how she follows through on returning the things she "accidentally" took.

Yes, I do have an attorney, and yes, I can legally keep her out of the house. Depending on how this works out, I may have to resort to doing so. I hate that it has come to this, but she's certainly still in full wayward mode, and I learned a hard lesson, yet again, about trusting her.

No, I understand perfectly. You trusted her and she took advantage.

For you to trust her to continue to come into your house because you don't think you're further exposed or because you lock up other things...that is foolish.

What if she plants a recording device in the bedroom and living room, then uses this information to destroy you in court. Or some recording keystroke devise on your computer. Do you think this is impossible? Do you think she wouldn't do this?

How many more times does she have to prove she is dangerous before you take this seriously?

Listen, I'm all about not escalating the situation, I don't believe in preemptive aggression, I'm not suggesting you get adversarial. But if I were in your shoes I'd make darn sure you were 110% protected.

Yes, she'll throw stones and get angry and blame you. She'll do that anyway.

Please read my post and Bob's post from the prior page. This is STANDARD. You need to believe us that this is coming. First LBH's don't see BD coming. Then they don't believe their WAW could be having a PA. Then they don't believe they'd be dishonest...by the time they realize what they're dealing with they've been bamboozled.

You can take it or leave it, I just can't watch what I know is coming without trying to shout 'look out!'

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2603554&#Post2603554

Zeus, thanks for the link. I read up on your and Joe's situations. Wow. Unbelievable how someone who professed to love you until your last breath can almost overnight turn into your worst enemy. At this point, I wouldn't put anything past my WW. I really don't know her anymore; she has become so centered on her own needs that she puts her before anyone else, and will somehow justify it, as if it makes perfect sense and everyone else is a jerk for not seeing it that way. Her own family and formerly close friends all see it, and most have lost touch with her because of it.

I had hoped that, over the past few months, maybe she was starting to have some regrets about her choices. I think she does, but mostly in the way that her life has suffered. It's not because she feels bad for the pain she has caused me or anyone else; it's because of what SHE has lost in terms of money and time with the kids.

For now, my plan is to put a new lock on my bedroom door and put anything of value which I think she might take in there behind locked door when I'm gone. The kids start school next week, meaning nobody will be here during the day, so the outside door will be locked, with nobody to let her in, and she doesn't have a key to the recently changed lock on that door. Going forward, I plan to keep that outside door locked at all times and I guess I'm going to have to tell her no coming into the house w/o me around. I'm sad that it has to be this way, but I simply can't trust her, and I know she doesn't trust me. She assumes every move I make is to somehow make her suffer or make her look bad when it gets time to determine child custody.

Right now, I simply want to have a healthy co-parenting R with her, but even that seems difficult. The more time goes on, the more I detach and distance myself, and really do feel like I'm reaching a point where I don't honestly know if I could take her back. Can't believe this is my life right now.

Gun safes are worth their weight in gold! I have a very large one, I keep car titles, birth certificates, money, extra car keys, pictures... Hell I even have Zip drives in there that have backups of the pictures!

Oh and another BIG thing kept in thee, all my logs from this situation. Notes with times and dates of how things happened, days when S4 was where an with what parent (I'm way ahead on days and overnights), receipts from any clothes or anything else she needed for S4, receipts for the groceries I bought for her apartment, ect... Records of every move either one of us make! Also have included a paper with time and dates of stupid stuff she posts online. A few times it has said on Facebook things such as "too stressed and drained to deal with life today F work". Took screenshots and noted date and time so I can find the pics easier.

Thanks Uphill. Love your suggestions. My WW is always posting a bunch of junk on FB too. I used to try and read into it, but anymore I don't bother. I finally realized that most of it had nothing to do with me, but more based on how things were going with OM, or whatever other drama was going on in her life. Guess it doesn't hurt to keep track but not sure how useful it would be in a custody case. I do track daily activity and time spent with kids, and will be using that to my advantage when we get to determining custody.

What's strange is that my WW had to give up her normal Monday nights with kids, due to starting on a dart league which plays that night. So I told her I'm wide open to whatever kind of replacement schedule you want to create. She keeps pushing for 50%, which is a min of 3 nights/week, but do you think she can come up with a replacement day? Nope. Keeps saying she's thinking about it but no good ideas yet. There are only 4 other nights in the week, so I can see what a difficult decision it must be (rolls eyes). The real issue is she has "fun" stuff going on the other nights, or they are dedicated to OM. I'm not pushing at all; it's up to her to decide. And if she wants to settle for 2 nights/week, fine by me. This is all getting brought in front of a court at some point so the more time the kids are with me, the better as far as I'm concerned. I honestly don't think she cares all that much, other than how it would potentially affect child support dollars.

Getting mad just thinking about it again. No idea who this person is, that I spent the last 24 years with.

Dwh,

I had to lock WH out of the house, he took all sorts of things including my personal things, wiped iPhones and destroyed data. Came and went as he pleased.

I changed the alarm code and then I put his stuff in a storage locker.

WH was a little like the terminator, he kept coming for more and more.

The wayward needs resources, goddamit, WH took my wine when he doesn't like that wine.

I agree with the other posters although in your sitch, protective and safe is good.

The expression enough rope...........

Complete freedom to misbehave, although your stuff is off bounds.

Instead of blocking WW, control the environment, it will work much better. No use being cross it stops you from grounding. Note it and let her move forward with her bad behaviour and waywardness, frankly the worse the better to achieve your objectives.

V

Originally Posted By: Uphill

Oh and another BIG thing kept in thee, all my logs from this situation. Notes with times and dates of how things happened, days when S4 was where an with what parent (I'm way ahead on days and overnights), receipts from any clothes or anything else she needed for S4, receipts for the groceries I bought for her apartment, ect... Records of every move either one of us make! Also have included a paper with time and dates of stupid stuff she posts online. A few times it has said on Facebook things such as "too stressed and drained to deal with life today F work". Took screenshots and noted date and time so I can find the pics easier.

Absolutely!

And I recorded rants too.

V

Dwh, I don't look into the Facebook stuff too much, just document when she bags work for no reason, acts like a 12 year old, stuff like that. She actually doesn't post much other stuff . I keep tabs, but only for info!

Anything on there that could mean it is about us I will most likely screenshot but not let it bother as I may not be about me...

A good gunsafe is key, even if not in a situation like we are! My best friends home burned down in January and his 2 saved sooooo much stuff! I actually bought mine about a week after that happened for the "insurance" factor. Seeing how quickly everything can be lost. When XF left I simply changed the combo on the keypad and put in other valuables, knowing she would be in and out at times.

She does not have a key to my home, changed them locks same day she left. But a lot of value can be shoved into a purse during a "potty break" haha

Had an interesting night. It was open house at the school for S10 and WW said she wanted to attend, so we all met at the school. Everything went well, we met teachers and staff, and sort of felt like a normal family for a while there. It doesn't bother me like it used to. I'm always aware of the current reality and don't let myself slip into longing for the past anymore. So of course during down times we were talking, and funny enough most of it initiated by WW.

Somehow she found out I had started bartending and was VERY interested in that part of my life. Remember, she did the same thing at the same club for over a year, so she is familiar with how it works and a lot of the people. She kept asking for updates on specific people, warning me about all the drama, etc. She said she doesn't miss it, but I could almost see the longing in her eyes. So the conversation was overall pleasant, but I never got the idea that she seemed totally relaxed. It's almost like she seemed stressed the entire time, like something was bothering her. Of course, she often seems like that around me, so no idea. But what I like to think is that she's noticing my changes and starting to realize I was serious about them. I'm doing all the things that she always wanted me to do, and even though I told her after DDay I would do it, I'm sure she didn't believe me.

The other nice thing is that, now that I'm working in an office again every day, I'm always dressed to the hilt in nice business casual or sometimes a suit. I've noticed that I get compliments all the time, from both men and women. I smile and walk with confidence, striking up conversations wherever I go. It appears to be infectious and I get positive responses from almost everyone, which WW also notices. In short, I believe that at least some small part of her is starting to realize what she has given up. Well, I'm choosing to believe that anyway, since it makes me feel good.

Getting ready to hit the sack early tonight, as all the GAL and new job has me worn down pretty good, so need a night of catching up on sleep. And I'm positive that for tonight at least, I won't be having any dreams about WW.

Having a hard time today. Every time I think I'm getting used to the thought of WW not being around, I get another dip on the roller coaster. I think that seeing her face to face a couple of days this week is taking a toll. I don't notice while she's around but I get used to her again, then feel down a day or two later when I haven't seen her. The kids spent a couple of hours shopping with her yesterday and S18 said she seemed stressed, as usual. Seems to be an almost permanent state with her the past couple of weeks. I know that money is tight; no idea what else might be causing trouble, but I gave up trying to figure it out a long time ago.

I'm finally to the end of week 1 on the new job and everything going well so far. Looking forward to the 3-day holiday weekend. Taking the boys to the beach on Sunday and meeting WW's sister there. I was going to take them regardless, but mentioned it to her and she wanted to know if she could come along. I get along well with her so will be happy to have another adult to pass the time with. I know that she speaks to WW once every couple of weeks and initially was really pulling for us to patch things up, but noticed her attitude lately has changed more to pushing me to be a good father and get used to doing things w/o WW, so I can only assume she's losing hope as well.

My plan right now is still to hold on through around March of next year, which will be 1 year separated. If there are no indications of a change by then, I'm going to have to file. I can't let this sitch drag on indefinitely, and I really can't cross the 20-year M mark w/o incurring some serious financial penalties in terms of spousal support. We will still have 6 months from the file date before everything final, but if I get there, I don't see much hope remaining. Even now, I'm not sure a R is possible, just because there is so much damage, and I don't see my WW ever reaching a point where she is willing to put in the work necessary to fix herself, or our M. I'm doing my best to let go, but seems like I'll never be totally over her.

Hey DW...we can't help but ask some of these questions...endlessly reevaluating the odds of R, what it would take, whether it's still possible or what we want, how long we'll wait, etc, etc...

Just remember those thoughts are all very draining, so limit your time with them. As long as you know you're not filing this month and she's not interested in R, none of those questions really need answers. What's really important is that you're deciding to hold tight for a bit.

I wasn't able to truly start detaching for 3 months after BD, and it took a crisis that forced me to rock bottom. This was a year ago tomorrow. Wow. After that my world changed forever, and it forced me to accept the reality of the situation and really let go.

Your W isn't your enemy, but she's definitely not in your corner anymore. That's hard to accept, but the sooner you truly get that the sooner you will be in your own corner more and more. The fastest way to get over your dependence on your WAW is to learn to meet the needs she was meeting on your own. Validate yourself. Be there for yourself. Hug yourself. Appreciate yourself. That's why GAL is important as well. When you find ways to get the support you need through other channels, you'll go from NEEDING your W to WANTING her. And, oftentimes, once the need is gone you will see her differently and will have trouble not going to the opposite extreme and being disgusted by her and not wanting her at all.

Anyway, some random thoughts, hang in, and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!

Originally Posted By: dwh15

My plan right now is still to hold on through around March of next year

I think setting timetables this far out is only going to set you up for failure. I understand what you are saying about the finances and such, but Im not sure theres a ton of benefit in worrying about things 6 months out. A lot can happen in that time. Better to focus those thoughts somewhere that can help you now!

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Your W isn't your enemy, but she's definitely not in your corner anymore. That's hard to accept, but the sooner you truly get that the sooner you will be in your own corner more and more. The fastest way to get over your dependence on your WAW is to learn to meet the needs she was meeting on your own. Validate yourself. Be there for yourself. Hug yourself. Appreciate yourself. That's why GAL is important as well. When you find ways to get the support you need through other channels, you'll go from NEEDING your W to WANTING her. And, oftentimes, once the need is gone you will see her differently and will have trouble not going to the opposite extreme and being disgusted by her and not wanting her at all.

Anyway, some random thoughts, hang in, and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!

Thanks Zeus. I've been doing a LOT of GAL lately and it really does help. I actually was feeling pretty good over the past couple of weeks, but having to spend time with WW 2 days in a row this week set me back I think. It wasn't by choice; we had meetings with the school for S10 and WW is making sure she attends every single meeting. I think she's worried about how it will look in a custody case if she doesn't attend.

So I'm confident that I'll bounce back over the next few days and things return to "normal". She hasn't tried contacting me at all over the past two days. Back to texting the kids for setting up plans, which really bothers me, but I've given up fighting her on it. When things don't pan out because she didn't include me on communication, then it's her own fault. There are no more urgent meetings scheduled for a while so my guess is I don't see WW in person for at least another 2-3 weeks. I hate that it has to be this way but the distance really does help me with detachment. I keep trying to fool myself that we can be "friends" and it feels good being able to talk with her, but then I always bottom out after a day or two of NC. Which tells me I'm not detached yet. From her perspective, no idea why she seems to want the NC lately, since she was all about being good friends that first few weeks. Once I cut off the money supply, her interest went away, so my best guess is she was only using me to get what she wanted, and no longer sees a point. Hurts to think it, but that's reality and I need to accept it.

Originally Posted By: Azzork

I think setting timetables this far out is only going to set you up for failure. I understand what you are saying about the finances and such, but Im not sure theres a ton of benefit in worrying about things 6 months out. A lot can happen in that time. Better to focus those thoughts somewhere that can help you now!

Agreed. The only reason I mentioned it at all is because it's sort of a hard break point for me. In May 2017 I will cross 20 years of M, and spouse support potentially goes to lifetime, rather than the 7 years I'm looking at now. I will not allow that to happen. Technically, I could probably hold off until Aug 2016 or so, but the courts can take up to 8 months to finalize a D after filing, so I don't want to cut it too close. I figure this gets us through a major holiday season, and will give everyone an idea of what life is going to be like, plus a year of separation seems like a good place to draw a line. As you say, a lot can happen in 6 months, so guess I'll see where life leads.

Originally Posted By: dwh15

I keep trying to fool myself that we can be "friends" and it feels good being able to talk with her, but then I always bottom out after a day or two of NC. Which tells me I'm not detached yet. From her perspective, no idea why she seems to want the NC lately, since she was all about being good friends that first few weeks. Once I cut off the money supply, her interest went away, so my best guess is she was only using me to get what she wanted, and no longer sees a point. Hurts to think it, but that's reality and I need to accept it.

Boy does this sound familiar. You're sitch, i havent read the whole thing yet, sounds like how mine went too. WW started living with OM immediately after she moved out. I know the feeling of how just any contact with her makes you feel so good and like you can do anything that day. But then after a day or 2 of NC, its like [censored]. and you bottom out. We went so far as face timing each other during the first 6months!

As far as why she wants NC...honestly...after a year of this...theres no explanation. It depends on her ridiculous moods. Some days she's gonna be all about dwh and then her attention span will go back to OM.

After a year of this..i think i wish i was stronger and didnt cater to her when she wanted to talk and just "be friends." Because i feel like i weened her off of me, if that makes sense. if you just go with the NC and she starts to get frustrated, probably a good thing to just say i cant be friends while your living with OM. I wish i did that. Some others did do that, i.e. Mozza, but in the end...the results are what they are.

Id keep encouraging you to detach, which I'm still not, but seriously its the only way.

So I ended up going to the beach yesterday. Took 3 of my 4 boys (S16 chose to stay home) and had a great time. Met my WW's sister there, along with her son (my nephew). Everyone enjoyed it, we watched a beautiful sunset, and I talked with S18 the entire 2-hour drive home. The two of us are really becoming close. Slept great, and had not heard from WW all weekend. Around 10:30am this morning she sends a TM. I'll just paste the convo.

WW: S18 never told me when u got home.

Me: We made it back fine. U can always text me if u wanna know. U don't have to go through S18.

WW: When u get home

Me: ??

WW: Yesterday. When did u guys get back.

Me: Don't remember exactly. Wasn't too late. Why do you wanna know?

WW: For S16

Me: I called and checked on him a few times. He was fine.

WW: when you go outta town, it should be u telling me. Not S18. Hope you told my sister Hi for me.

Me: S18 told me he had talked to you about it. And u r always welcome to ask me about kids if you have questions. Your sister hopes you doing well. She misses you.

WW: Yeah, well you never planned to tell me anyways. U can have the rest of my family for Christmas too. Enjoy.

Me: I wasn't deliberately keeping anything. S18 said he mentioned it on Friday. And I don't know why u think it has to be either me or you with your family. Why do they have to pick a side? We can all get along just fine if you want.

WW: The only reason S18 told me was cause I specifically mentioned my sister. U didn't plan on telling me and it's BS.

Me: I had no problem telling you. I didn't think u cared. You go days at a time and don't tell me anything but get mad when I do the same.

WW: They don't have to pick sides but I'm sure you're buzzing in their ears. I don't feel like I have anyone now. Thanks

Me: I'm not buzzing anyone. I don't trash talk about you, in spite of what you think. And btw, ur sister was already going to the beach and told me she had invited you b4 she even spoke to me. Said she never got a reply. I mentioned I was taking the kids and we decided to meet up. There was nothing sneaky about it. I would have been happy if you could have made it.

That was it. No more replies from her. Sort of a bizarre conversation. Not sure why she thinks I'm ganging up with her family against her. No idea how I did from a db perspective. Don't feel like I validated but the spew was coming so fast, I was just trying to shoot truth darts in there. Thought about sending another text asking what she expects, but decided against it. Let her stew for a while and look for a chance to interact more positive in a day or two. Feedback appreciated.

I put what I thought was a setback in red, blue was just unnecessary. Recap below.

Quote:

WW: S18 never told me when u got home.

Me: We made it back fine. U can always text me if u wanna know. U don't have to go through S18.

WW: When u get home

Me: ??

WW: Yesterday. When did u guys get back.

Me: Don't remember exactly. Wasn't too late. Why do you wanna know?

WW: For S16

Me: I called and checked on him a few times. He was fine.

WW: when you go outta town, it should be u telling me. Not S18. Hope you told my sister Hi for me.

Me: S18 told me he had talked to you about it. And u r always welcome to ask me about kids if you have questions. Your sister hopes you doing well. She misses you.

WW: Yeah, well you never planned to tell me anyways. U can have the rest of my family for Christmas too. Enjoy.

Me: I wasn't deliberately keeping anything. S18 said he mentioned it on Friday. And I don't know why u think it has to be either me or you with your family. Why do they have to pick a side? We can all get along just fine if you want.

WW: The only reason S18 told me was cause I specifically mentioned my sister. U didn't plan on telling me and it's BS.

Me: I had no problem telling you. I didn't think u cared. You go days at a time and don't tell me anything but get mad when I do the same.

WW: They don't have to pick sides but I'm sure you're buzzing in their ears. I don't feel like I have anyone now. Thanks

Me: I'm not buzzing anyone. I don't trash talk about you, in spite of what you think. And btw, ur sister was already going to the beach and told me she had invited you b4 she even spoke to me. Said she never got a reply. I mentioned I was taking the kids and we decided to meet up. There was nothing sneaky about it. I would have been happy if you could have made it.

My suggestion is that you quit trying to debate, explain, defend, attack, or anything along those lines. Let it go.

Instead, just validate.

"OK, W, I hear you'd like to be kept more in the loop." "I can see why you'd be upset with the idea of getting the kids in the middle of this. I appreciate you sharing that, and I agree it's a priority to keep whatever issues we have from impacting them".

Anything beyond that is useless. She's never going to agree with you. Anything you say will be twisted and used against you. Trying to point that out will only infuriate her further and escalate things.

Yup. Definitely time to cut her loose and say the minimum.

Just wanted to add that I totally understand the urge. It took me a LONG time to really get over what STBX thought of me. And it was a little by little thing.

I think men care so much about what their woman thinks about them that it's easy to get to a spot where we don't know what to do anymore if it's not vying for their approval. And it is so devastating to be in a position where nothing you can do is good enough.

What helped me- I had a team of professionals. IC, DB coach, and an L. Any major decisions were run by 2-3 of those individuals. That way I knew I wasn't making emotional decisions when it came to parenting, communication, finances, etc. When STBX started spewing stuff about how 'unfair' I was being, it made it easier to dismiss knowing 3/3 of my professionals had insisted I take those steps and I was merely 'following orders'.

That, and after a few months I found out the truth. It's unfortunate but I had to demote STBX to a person beneath my attention, because she isn't treating me well enough to keep her place in my mind. The heart takes a little longer, but it does follow.

Thanks Zeus. Just to clarify on that 1st part of the convo, I got nervous when she asked what time we got home. S16 was home alone all day, since he decided he didn't want to be at the beach. I did call to check on him a couple of times and he was fine. But I was worried that the question from WW had something to do with her keeping logs, similar to what I am doing. And I didn't want to give her an exact time I got home, so that she could try and use it against me later.

Overall, I agree with you though, and will try to keep it in mind for future use. As a quick update, WW did text about an hour after this all went down, and we made arrangements for her to come pick up S10 and S8 and take them shopping for new school backpacks. She stopped by briefly, we had some polite conversation about first day of school tomorrow, and as she was leaving, I told her I would be happy to let her know in the future about plans when I took the kids out of town. That seemed to make her happy, but her overall demeanor was still one of stress, which seems to be the case every time I see her lately.

That which Zues said ^^^^^^^^

I can see much justifying, but really you don't need to. Your s16 and s18 are old enough to R with their mum, just get out of the way would be my advice. If they can't cope then step in but otherwise "s16 and s18 can communicate with you WW directly, I Dwh have come to the conclusion that I can get in the way. Please ask them directly"

s10 and S8 somewhat different, but they too can chat to their mum and dad. Have you thought of an online schedule tool? I believe HeavyD uses one, and I forget who advised it.

Open about the younger kids (admin) and broad brush on the older boys and zilch nada on you.

Cards, close to and chest, in any order.

V

V, I see your point but the problem is we have already tried communicating through S18 and occasionally S8, as he has a text app. There have been too many times where communication was misunderstood or just not relayed to me at all. I don't see any reason that 2 grown adults can't send a couple of TMs to coordinate schedules regarding kids. It only takes a minute. I don't need to get involved if she wants to know about their day, or the latest game they are into. But for exchanges, we should be able to discuss. I don't tell her about my life, and don't ask about hers. She sometimes gives me little bits of info, but I never inquire further.

Anyway, WW did take S10 and S8 shopping and they both came back happy with new school backpacks. She just dropped them in the driveway and left. About an hour after that, we had a huge storm roll through, lost power, and poor S18's bedroom in the basement got flooded. The power came back on after 3 hours, and I was able to suck up a lot of the water with a steam cleaner. Then I made dinner, and had to pack lunches and round up clothes for everyone to wear to 1st day of school tomorrow. Just an extremely busy night. It's times like that I really miss having WW around, just as another adult chipping in to help. But I made it, and now laying down to catch a few hours before the week starts. Gonna be a busy one. Still missing WW just a little but not terribly and I'm proud of myself that I made it through quite a messy day intact, and w/o her help. Now if I can survive this first week back to school, I'll be ready for anything.

I am not saying you communicate through your kids.

Absolutely the reverse in fact. I am saying S18 and S16 have an independent R with each of you. If there is serious admin direct to WW. Otherwise no discussion, let your two older boys R with their mum, if they don't then let go of it. not your concern. Admin is straight up, going X, bought Y, needs a wash behind the ears etc. that's it. Nothing to misinterpret. If its schedule online scheduler.

Cool as a cat, that's great.

You are an amazing dad, dwh, tremendous.

V

Thanks V. I get your point. I think the real issue is that we only have a verbal agreement about time with kids and WW is unstable and unreliable. She likes to switch thing up last minute, and coordinate through S18. That kind of stuff should be going through me. I'm not sure there is any easy way of dealing with her on this stuff TBH. She sees everything through her own selfish lens and is never to blame, while I can't seem to do anything right.

I suspect nothing much will change until I officially file (I assume I'll probably be the one to do it), and we get a court-ordered agreement in place. Then I will hold her to the details. Given the way things are going now, there may not be much to dispute because I really don't see her getting more than a night or two per week with any of the kids. Over 6 months, she hasn't shown any real interest in having the kids more than 2-3x per week and that hardly ever includes an overnight. I'll continue logging this behavior and plan to show it to a judge when the time comes. It may be a wake-up call to her, but I want the kids to be with a parent who makes them the priority.

So all the kids made it through the first day with flying colors. WW checked on them briefly this afternoon and brought them a burger for an after school snack. She didn't stay long but it was nice she at least did that, and sent me a TM that they were fine. I'm spending some time with my brother right now, then home to make dinner and get the kids ready for day 2. Busy life as a single dad. But I wouldn't trade it.

I don't agree, you are the adult not your S18. When he starts to act as a go between, you say, "S, thank you for telling me this, it's not what I want from you as my S to act as a go between. Neither do I want to put you in the position of say so to your mum". In future it's ok to say "mum, please text dad" and "dad, can you contact mum by text".

She will see everything through her wayward lens.

Incidentally, I am so impressed by you.

V

Well, almost as if to prove the point in my last post, I walk in from work and S18 hands me his cell. It's WW saying that she has to cancel plans with the kids tonight. Poor OM is sick and getting sent home from work. Don't ask me why that suddenly means WW can't still take kids but I didn't even argue. Just said thanks for letting me know.

Now she "might" be able to take them tomor night, but you know there's a chance she may be playing darts, so IF that doesn't work out, then she'll have them tomor night as a makeup. She's really on track for mother of the year. It put me in a bad mood having to deal with that right after getting home. And I'm actually glad to have the kids stay with me, but just dealing with WW and her messed up priorities is painful.

The more time goes on and more of this type of behavior I see, I really am starting to believe that I'm done. I haven't given up 100% yet, but I'm getting very close. Reading online about similar situations with a WW with years of history and multiple OM, the outcomes rarely turn out well. Usually there are several false R until the poor guy finally throws in the towel. My W has severe mental/emotional issues that are likely to take years of therapy to resolve. That's assuming that she ever reaches a point where she realizes that her problems are internal and is willing to do the work.

On top of that, I question whether I could ever truly trust her completely again. I would likely have to seek therapy myself to help cope with the betrayal and rebuild trust. I am starting to see what a long, difficult road it would be to R with WW. In an ideal world, I would love to be a family again. Just starting to doubt that it's really possible. I'll continue on with my plans for now, DBing my heart out (for me and kids, not for WW), and patiently waiting for some sign, any sign of WW waking up. But I'm more convinced every day that I will be filing some time soon in 2016.

So enough of that talk. It helped my mood just venting about it. Now I'm off to hit the gym, run a couple of miles, and grab some dinner for kids. Probably spend the night catching up on housework, as I'm sadly behind from the busy start to school. Good luck to my fellow DBers out there suffering tonight. I'll try to post on some other threads later.

Re text message from S phone to yours, then reply. Next time S re texts her texts to you.

Then print for your pack for L.

V

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

Re text message from S phone to yours, then reply. Next time S re texts her texts to you.

Then print for your pack for L.

V

Thanks V. This wasn't a TM but an actual phone call. She called S18 for some reason instead of me, then I happened to walk in while they were talking and she asked to speak with me. It illustrates what I mentioned about coordinating with S18 though. I'm sure that if I had not walked in right at that moment, I would have just gotten the message from S18 about the change in plans. I guess I need to instruct him next time to tell mom that dad said if it's regarding scheduling that he was to be contacted directly.

It's possible this is to protect herself from being recorded or texts being saved.

It makes sense to WW.

V

So I sent a TM to WW today to confirm plans with kids tonight. This is not a normal night for her, but makeup for missing last night. She was once again trying to coordinate through S18 and he let me know. I had no idea what time they were leaving, coming home, whether she was providing dinner, etc. So I fired off a TM and we got a little convo going. It was mostly about kids and how the week has been going but I snuck in a couple of jokes and got some "LOL" replies.

Felt good to be somewhat friendly. Probably not the best DBing but I'm doing my best to let her know I'm not trying to be her enemy. I realize I can't do that very often but it was nice to have that tiny connection for a few minutes. Now I'm off to my local clubhouse to enjoy some friends, beer, and the first night of NFL games. Should be a good time.

Great GAL news

Go for fun

V

Ended up getting too tired last night to go out by the time I got all the household chores done so ended up talking to sister on phone instead. This 1st week of school, combined with 2nd week on new job has been rough. I'm getting into a groove though and think I'll do better next week.

WW sent me a TM this afternoon asking how kids did this morning and asking about plans tonight. I replied that kids did great and confirmed about them coming over tonight. Then she replied that she was asking about My plans tonight. Caught me off guard as no idea why she would care but I simply said I wasn't sure yet. Every time she does something like that, I wonder if she honestly cares or if she's looking for some kind of evidence to use against me.

It's crazy that's where I'm at with her but I really don't trust WW at all. So she won't be getting any updates on plans I may or may not have, regardless of her intentions. She doesn't deserve to know. I likely will be going out to join some friends at a local pub but she can sit and wonder.

Slept well, but woke up a little depressed. After a couple of hours, I've been bouncing between that and anger. The coaster ride continues - seems never-ending. I've been feeling more anger and resignation to my reality lately, so guess that's progress at least. I have moments where I wish my WW would come to her senses, but they are far less frequent, and then I immediately start thinking about the damage she has caused and how much work would lie ahead to be a couple again. It's daunting, and not sure it's even possible.

So I still have a tiny bit of hope to somehow save things but it really would take a miracle at this point. But thinking about it strengthens my resolve to continue becoming the best father I can be, and improving my life in all other aspects. Plans for today include taking the kids to a movie this afternoon, and then heading to my mother's house, where she is preparing a delicious dinner of homemade lasagna. I haven't see her in a couple of weeks so will be nice to catch up on things.

Well, I'm just feeling angry tonight. Having gone through 6 months of He11, and only experiencing very brief periods anger, I find that I'm transitioning to a state of being angry a lot more of the time. I realize that anger is a big part of the grieving process, so maybe this is a good sign that I am finally making progress and moving out of denial. Not sure what finally triggered it to happen, except maybe the length of time, and possibly the greatly increased amount of NC the past few weeks. WW has gotten to a point she rarely even tries to communicate anymore.

She sends TMs directly to S18 to coordinate plans on her nights. I made an issue out of it for a while but I decided to just give up. If that's how she wants to arrange things, then I let her do it that way. If it doesn't work out as planned because she relied on S18 and didn't involve me, then too bad. WW also dropped Monday nights, which is 1 of only 3 nights she was seeing the kids, and has yet to schedule a replacement. That was 2 weeks ago, but still nothing from her. So now it's only 2 nights/week, and sometimes she'll take them for a couple of hours on a Sunday afternoon.

The pure selfishness that she exhibits continues to amaze me, and fuels my anger. I feel bad for my kids, who are starting to see mom as more of a favorite aunt than a mother. I feel bad for myself, having to take on the roll of bother father and mother, in addition to being the only source of financial support. In the mean time, WW has submersed herself completely in a new world with OM, and even goes so far as to call herself "grandma" to one of OM's grandkids. The sheer nerve of someone to do that, while still being officially M to another man, and who has her own kids just drives me insane.

Sorry for the vent, but felt I needed to get it out. The upside is that I am rapidly detaching from WW, much more so than the past few months combined. I still get pangs of doubt and pain, but overall I'm letting go and seriously doubting my ability or desire to want to be with WW ever again. It would take an extraordinary amount of change and convincing on her part for me to buy in at this point. The sad thing is that I feel she really is going to eventually reach a place where the reality of her choices hits home and she possibly wants to R, but I don't think it will be for some time yet, possibly another couple of years, and I will not be waiting around for that long. I simply don't have it in me to keep living this way for that amount of time.

Plans for now remain the same, but I am further convinced every day that I'm rapidly moving towards my breaking point. I have no doubt that I will be filing for D early 2016 if nothing changes by then. Well, off to try and get some sleep to start the work and school week again. Good night my fellow DBers.

Hey DW, glad you're still here and posting a lot.

Anger is very natural. Shoot, I have still processed through a lot of anger over the last month or two, and I've been physically separated for about 15 months now. It can be triggered by many things. Someone asking how my kids are doing back at school triggered me, because I have only seen them for 3 hours since last Tuesday and I'm angry that someone can make a selfish decision and remove my own children from my daily life. I could list hundreds more. D is the worst thing in the world and it's deeply upsetting that people make this decision.

Anger isn't detachment though. Detachment isn't parallel to whether you would take your WAS back or not. In fact, refreshing your stance on that question repeatedly is far from detached. Now, anger can be a sign that being attached isn't doing you any good, and can help you see the need for detachment. But detachment itself is the release of any of these emotions.

It takes time, but it will happen. No need to try to talk yourself into not feeling your feelings. Let them run their course, just don't let yourself get into loops for too long. It's a gradual, gradual release. I'll let you know if I ever see an end to it. The good news is that it gets much easier, particularly when you keep doing the right thing for you.

Thanks Zeus. I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm fully detached yet. I know I'm not. Just doing a lot of venting lately and the anger is definitely a change in attitude from the past few months, so I see it as progress. The scary thing for me is, I'm starting to realize that IF my WW ever comes around, I am likely to be fully detached, and will have no desire to want to be with her again. Honestly, I don't know how people give it another go 2-3 years after DDay. Just thinking about the amount of pain I've gone through to get here, not sure I would ever want to open myself up to that possibility again with a person who has a known history of doing it. But I guess there is no rush to decide. Off to the start of another work/school week.

Had my first real challenge as a single parent today. S10 woke up with a cold and fever. No way I'm sending him to school, but nobody at home to watch him either, and only being 2 weeks into a brand new job, I didn't want to miss an entire day. I texted WW this morning and informed her of the sitch. She also works today and has even less flexibility than me, so she was not an option. I ended up going into work for a couple of hours this morning while S10 got some rest. Explained to my manager, who was very cool about it and said no problem if I needed to go home. So stayed til lunch, then back home for the afternoon, effectively missing only 1/2 day. S10 is feeling better and everyone came out fine.

Crisis handled, but it was a stressful morning. I know WW felt guilty, as she did a round of FB posts talking about how much she loves her kids. So I'm happy that I was able to work things out, but it's just another one of those things that makes me sad and angry about being in this sitch at all. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day, so hopefully S10 feels better by then.

Dwh

You are incredibly wonderful father. The whole s10 illness was managed like a master craftsman.

Deeply impressed.

V

V, you are too kind. S10 ended up being fine and attended school yesterday and today with no issues. But yesterday S16 and S8 ended up with the same cold, so had a similar issue with missing school, handled about the same way, and worked out fine. Today S18 and I both wake up with the cold. So it has made the rounds but seems to be a short-term thing at least.

S18 skipped his college classes but unfortunately I still had to work. Well, probably didn't have to but only being on 3rd week of a new job didn't want to call in this soon. I didn't feel too bad, but did a lot of sniffling and blowing. But ended up feeling energetic enough after work to join a new friend for 9 holes of golf so that was fun. Got home and noticed S18 and S8 already left to see mom, but S16 and S10 still here, so need to figure out dinner plans for us, then get to work catching up on cleaning. Man, a single parent's day never ends!

This coming Friday and Sunday I will be getting some additional training to do volunteer bartending, then I'm actually on my own 4 different days in October! I have really enjoyed it so far and think it's going to be a great way for me to get out and meet new people. Over the past couple of days, I have really noticed myself detaching and not spending nearly as much time focused on WW or what she is doing. Sure, she's on the back of my mind but it's not constant and I'm not really depressed about it. No idea why the sudden shift but I'm happy about it. I am starting to feel somewhat normal again and enjoy life.

From what I hear through kids, WW seems to still be bouncing around between happy, sad, stressed, or depressed every few days. No idea since I haven't had any contact with her outside of a few texts in almost 2 weeks. She did send a TM today saying she was going to try and adjust her work schedule to get Wednesdays off so that she could available for S10 and S8 when they have short days at school. It's set up funny so that about 3 out of every 4 Wednesdays the kids get home at 2pm instead of the normal 3:30pm. I hadn't mentioned it but was a little concerned about having my 2 youngest get home and have nobody around. My plan was to simply take a late lunch and wait for S18 to arrive before heading back, but it was nice of WW to make the offer. I replied to her I thought it was a good idea, so guess we'll see how it works out.

So overall, things going pretty well. Can't say that I'm feeling totally normal yet, but I'm getting there. Once I get fully detached, I think I will be very comfortable to just keep moving along this way, and not in any major rush for D. At some point next year, I'm sure I will probably go ahead and file but it's months away, and I no longer see a need to keep throwing out deadlines. Just patiently wait and see what happens.

Looks like I'm near the end of another thread. Link to Part 4: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2607479&#Post2607479