THREAD 1
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2583949#Post2583949THREAD 2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592862&page=11Hi Sunny! That is a question I am not sure exactly how to answer. I guess I always thought it was because I loved him but now I am learning on here it may be more a need than want. I will have to dig deep for that answer. The crazy thing is I told myself I would never live like this. I continue reminding myself that this is not what I want to teach my daughter. I feel like I am doing ok with GAL. I have been out more in the last two weeks than in a year. A friend and I are committing to going out anytime we are asked no matter what. I am no longer just going to sit at home waiting on him. Its not a life. I will also be doing more with our kids. No more just sitting around. Something makes me think he is enjoying me being gone all the time though. BUT he has not had to watch the kids yet due to my plans. I guess I hope if I change he will change also but I already know I can not control him or if he changes I can only control me. I have been trying to live this week as If he was not even here live as if I was living alone. Working extra hours cleaning instead of asking for help ect. I think emotional well being will be better achieved if I can completly detatch and not pursue. Today my goal is to get all of the cleaning, housework and budget for next month done. If I have time he asked me to come to garage but I will only do that after I get MY stuff done. No more making time for him. I will only have time for him if I HONESTLY have time. I need to get kids registered for school and all that good stuff also. Zeus told me to make small daily achievable goals. So getting stuff done and not going out of my way for him is a goal. I did send a few pursuing messages today but I will NOT send anymore messages period even if he texts me first. I have the kids at home so he will need nothing unless he wants me to do something and then I will decide if I should do it or not. Is it in my best interest? Unless it is at home or in a town I want to go to answer is NO!
Cadet is there a way I can add all the links to the very first post I made like Matt did? I will continue to link them together at the beginning and ends of each thread but I thought it was convienient to be able to go to page one and click on the tread you left off on instead of searching? I hope that makes sense?
Cadet is there a way I can add all the links to the very first post I made like Matt did? I will continue to link them together at the beginning and ends of each thread but I thought it was convienient to be able to go to page one and click on the tread you left off on instead of searching? I hope that makes sense?
It seems like you did that above - good job
4, love is a grand thing but love in and of itself is not a complete relationship. What if you loved serial killer? What if you loved a meth addict? What if you loved a guy who beat you daily? Or abused your kid? Or disrespected you by carrying on affairs over and over and over? Where's your line?
Good job on making a plan and sticking to it, accomplishing goals is a satisfying feeling. And keep on with the GAL and who cares if he enjoys it or not? It's not for him, it's for you. Keep it up.
Agree with Sunny, keep on this road. Sunny is right...love is a choice, and it doesn't always make sense to make that choice.
One thing too- codependency doesn't always mean you need him directly. I've found a greater need is to depend on HIM NEEDING YOU. Somehow when he needs you your life has a purpose, a meaning. And the worse he is, the MORE SURE you are that he TRULY needs you. And that if you're forgiving, love him unconditionally, never leave, accept the abuse...that somehow even while he treats you like garbage you are fulfilled because ONLY YOU would have stuck by him...and that makes you feel special and important and needed.
BS. Not only don't you need him, you don't need him to need you either. And while I cherish M, you aren't breaking your vows from protecting yourself from someone that has broken theirs first and is destroying your life. You must keep taking care of yourself.
Again, on the right path. So here's another one to contemplate- if you KNEW WAH didn't need you in any way...do you still feel you have value? What more are you here to do besides be a loyal punching bag?
Sunny I should have set that line long ago! I guess it is time to set it now. I want to save my R I am hopefully being given 10 months to work on me and figure out what I really want. We have agreed if the kids are in school I will not have to move and they start school end of August. So I am being given time. I need to break the co-dependency and see if this is what I truly want instead of needing it. I need to keep pushing forward. I work tomorrow so I will not text unless he texts first. He is going fishing with his friend and we will have no kids tomorrow so I may honestly just stay home and relax after working so much this week! It is actually what I WANT TO DO! I will make sure to stay positive and not text throughout the night also. Just get on here read threads and watch you tube videos!
Zeus. I agree I think it is more my thinking of he needs me. He needs me to help with kids pay bills ect. I have always thought like that. And also felt I am the only one who will put up with him. I would bet there is someone else out there who would. Looking from a realistic point he probably does not need me he would figure something out because he would have to. I would still have value as his friend even if he did not need me. We have always been the best of friends when we are not together it is so weird. I would have value in his family no matter what. So no matter what I will always have value even if we are not together but I would not be his punching bag either. Maybe the best of both worlds? I do feel like I am making very small steps forward. I mean very very very small!
4mykid - are you saying that your H has hit you and been unfaithful multiple times? I'm so sorry if that is the case, and I also wonder whether this is a M you want to try and save if so. Is that the best thing for you my friend?
Have you read V's thread on abuse?
Toots no he has never been physically abusive just unfaithful several times! I only want to save the M if it can be healthy! I have 10 months to change me doesn't sound long but I need to kick it in gear! Get myself healthy and just see what happens! So far he maintains we will probably not/most likely not/very slim chance that he will even try again he is ver condos ten but i try to remember I should not believe him!
Well we did text today but only because he called and I was at work. He was not very chatty. We ML yesterday and today he is barely talking. It is a weird cycle. Seems to always be that way. Guilt? I am working towards emotional detatchment/independence. I did not allow myself to get upset tonight when I was napping and he did not even say he was leaving. When he asked what time his D needed picked up I text her mom and waited an hour before responding. I have not even told him about birthday plans for my D yet. I just made them on my own! That is a big step! I always want his opinion for everything. No R talk since Monday! Keep pushing forward!
4, let me be really crass here. He doesn't have to speak to you or acknowledge you before leaving the house, arrange for picking up his daughter, or make birthday party plans for a kid that's not even his. Yet he gets sex. From both you and another woman. Is that ok with you?
Im not saying you should or shouldn't ML. It's your choice
But go into it with your eyes wide open, dear, and make sure it's getting you a step closer to where you want to be.
Sunny you are right he doesn't do much to help anymore and I'm not sure I understand why except that I allow it! I was sleeping and I am sure that would be his excuse he didn't want to wake me but in the past that hasn't been a problem! As for arrangements for pick up yes he could have messaged her also I usually pick her up and drop her off so I do most of the communicating with her mom. Again I have allowed it as to have control and be co dependent to feel needed helpful ect. Am I ok with him sleeping with us both no absolutely not im working towards being strong enough to say no but also scared of pushing him away further. Living through fear. I am not sure if it is getting me closer to where I want to be which is having a happy healthy family with H or if it is more of the same and allowing him to cake eat. I am sure more towards the second. I will keep working towards becoming stronger so I can say no. I certainly do not feel forced and in a way enjoy it but it is certainly not the same as it was before! I'm not sure how to explain it. I am working on detachment not letting his roller coaster affect me and his actions affect me this shall be a long hard road as I am very co dependent! I am excited that I found the co dependent no more on you tube as an audio so I can listen to it until I am able to afford it. So far I feel I am reading my own story except my H is not an alcoholic! I need to take responsibility for my actions to and how I allow him to do what he does just like I said before I allow him to not do the communicating because I just do it!
4, you've been acting like a second mom to his kids. Are you babysitting them while he's out with OW? I think it's time he stepped up for his own children. I know you love them, and I'm always one to put the interests of the kids first, but...they have a mother and a father and you seem to be picking up the work load that they aren't. Am I off base? How do you feel about what I wrote?
Sunny spot on! I only watch them a few hours on Saturdays while we sleep right after races usually! He hasn't normally gone out with OW if we have the kids. R did in the beginning but I put my foot down. Now this month I did watch them twice while he went out but only because I do not want them in the middle of this and he will do that because he is sure they are going to be together and he loves her blah blah but due to his actions I doubt it! She has not met family in the year they have been together still ML with me I still live here she still lives with ex husband ect. We have not told kids we are not together as everything at home is the same except kissing holding hands and ILY we still cuddle on couch and everything else is run the sAme! I also tend to pick up for the mom of oldest also doing all activities the running ect! I feel he should step up but I also feel that puts the kids in a bad sitch. I do not want them confused or hurt. I am not sure since im planning to be here another 10 months it's a good idea to tell them or let them be around OW as the two older ones are smart enough to ask questions! Unfortunanly I feel protecting them is more important. Partly because I do not feel this A will turn into anything but if it does than he can explain when it's time for me to leave. I am getting scared it could work as it's been a year and he is spending more time with her in the weekends! Please don't feel i don't agree I do if I was planning to leave soon I would be all over letting him see what it's like. I could ask he does more of the communicating though let him have more responsibility
4my...I know you're not being physically abused...it is just hard to see how you allow yourself to be treated. It reminded me of a poem that is about abuse. This was written to be a wake up call to those in a bad spot that are too scared to make changes. It stuck with me over the years. Though your sitch is different I hope it helps you in your journey towards finding your strength.
Please read this poem out loud. It is much stronger than if you just skim it. Thank you.
I Got Flowers Today
I got flowers today.
It wasn't my birthday or any other special day.
We had our first argument last night,
And he said a lot of cruel things that really hurt me.
I know he is sorry and didn't mean the things he said.
Because he sent me flowers today.
I got flowers today.
It wasn't our anniversary any other special day.
Last night, he threw me into a wall and started to choke me.
It seemed like a nightmare.
I couldn't believe it was real.
I woke up this morning sore and bruised all over.
I know he must be sorry.
Because he sent me flowers today.
I got flowers today,
and it wasn't Mother's Day or any other special day.
Last night, he beat me up again.
And it was much worse than all the other times.
If I leave him, what will I do?
How will I take care of my kids?
What about money?
I'm afraid of him and scared to leave.
But I know he must be sorry.
Because he sent me flowers today.
I got flowers today.
Today was a very special day.
It was the day of my funeral.
Last night, he finally killed me.
He beat me to death.
If only I had gathered enough courage and strength to leave him,
I would not have gotten flowers...today.
By Paulette Kelly
Hi 4my, I would echo what Zeus and Sunny have said. Both are very wise. I'm glad to know that your H doesn't hit you, but what do you mean when you talk about being his punching bag? What makes you feel that way?
I also would think carefully about ML. I understand your fear of distance. But by staying close, you remain part of a dysfunctional set up - and you enable your H to both have his cake and eat it. He continues to get some needs met by you and some met by OW. Why would he change? It's likely that you may actually prolong the situation, as there is no loss for him just now.
My other comment would be that I'm concerned the pattern of serial infidelity is a tough one to come back from. Even if you survive this round as a couple, what does the future hold? Probably more of the same if you just keep trying to win him back.
Why do you feel that you deserve so little? Can you dig a little deeper into that? Don't you deserve a R with a faithful partner who truly supports you in life and vice versa? Until you respect yourself some more, and your actions reflect this, it is unlikely that he will have much respect for you IMHO.
I truly hope that you use the opportunities this forum offers to change your own life for the better, and open yourself in the longer term to a more healthy relationship - either with him or a new partner. We are all here for you and will support as best we can.
Take care, Toots xx
Off topic I will answer both posts but I'm really struggling with anger today! Mom of D4 called me saying H hadn't showed up she needed to get to work! I finally got. Hold of FIL and asked him to go wake him! I swear I'm being pushed closer and closer to just throwing my hands up! How do I address this without a fight! Again im so sick of the irresponsibility? He went out fishing and when I got up at 245 this am he was texting OW and on computer then over slept to get D! Fuming!
You should be fed up. Here's the scenario:
You can't live like this
He won't change
The more you focus on trying to make him change, persuade him to change, beg him to change, bribe him to change, tempt him to change...that's more of the same, back to you can't live like this.
Your move. You want to talk to your FIL or H some more to try to get him to change? Or are you ready to accept this is reality and do something different like take care of yourself?
Hi 4M, his responsibility for picking up and looking after his daughter is his alone. I don't think there should be any need for you to get hold of people to go and wake him up. Maybe next time this happens, you can give Mom of D4 the number and she can call him direct. It sounds as though you are making it your problem and it isn't IMHO.
If he wants to stay up until all hours, then be late to pick up his D, that's his to own, in my view. This is where it really helps to detach and let him plough his own furrow. You may not agree with what he is doing, but he has fired you as his spouse just now, and these issues are his to manage. And if his ex is angry with him, so be it. You don't need to be angry, because it isn't your problem, right?
I hope this helps, and I do think it is a shame for D4 to have been disappointed by Dad not being reliable.
Take care, and maybe go off and do something until you feel calmer. You have regretted letting your anger get the better of you on other occasions recently, so best avoid that if you can.
Toots xx
What Toots said. Let H meet his responsibilities to his D. You don't need to be in the middle of it.
Zeus I agree sometimes when I look back at some of my threads I think o my how can I still be doing this! And it's only been a month or less of posting imagine what 13 years looks like! No after saying that it doesn't mean I don't want to try to save my M but I am starting (very beginning) to see that I don't want to save it if it can never be healthy! Zeus the poem is awesome! You are right he isn't physically abusive but emotionally abusive and it's causing me a lot of mental anguish! It kills me to know I understand what is going on but do not have the strength to break free! I will keep pushing forward though! Only text I sent was hi! He said hello nothing more! So I will say nothing more!
Toots im his emotional punching bag! He obviously does not respect me and when he is angry feels he can say anything he wants! I will not say I am innocent either I have done the same thing but he will hold housing against me and tell me how he can't stand me ect!
I agree toots I probably am prolonging it as I am scared of the distance fueling the affair! I'm not sure he would care if I never talked to him again from what he says!
I do not want more of the same! I want a healthy R with him! That means I have to change and so does he! I can not force him to change but I can change me and that is where I want to focus! I explained to a friend the other day if I improve and he doesn't come with me will I really want to stay not likely! Now if I improve and he improves maybe! I just need to find the strength to move.
I deserve a he!! Of a lot more! I deserve honesty trust and true love! On the other hand I will only be treated better if I earn that! So again I need to just keep working!
I promise to keep working on me! I am sure it appears I am getting nowhere but I swear I am very slowly! I committed myself last night to really use the 10 months I am being given and really focus on me so when the time comes we can work it out or I can be comfortable leaving also! Again my goal is a healthy R with H but only if it can be healthy!
Hi 4M, I do think you're making progress. You are posting and clearly thinking about things. Recognising some of the patterns and so on. I think the big thing to let go of is 'changing him.' And I think the big things to focus on are your own self esteem, self-respect and finding the strength you need to move forward, even though you feel fearful. You only get to control you..
It is a couple of steps forward and one back, particularly in the early days - but baby steps remember?
xx
Zeus you are right it is a vicious cycle and I am growing very tired of it very quickly. I am starting to wonder how much longer I can take it without just losing my mind. I have been holding on to him changing. He obviously is not willing to change so I have to change. Not for him or the relationship but for me. I need to stand up for myself in a healthy way not screaming anger. I am done being his babysitter and door mat. I honestly can not take the anger, disrespect, saddness and stress anymore. I mean it! I only talked to FIL to get him to go wake up H! I am ready to take responsibility for me and the kids only. I am ready to care for myself. Go do things I want to do and spending time doing what I want to do. It is so hard accepting reality when I know this is not who he is! He can not be living in reality! So I need to give him space to figure out what he is doing and I need to decide what is best for me and D8! thanks zeus!
HI Toots. She did call him he did not answer so she called me and said he hadn't showed up she figured it was not me picking her up as I was not there on time and he is always late. this call came half hour after he was supposed to be there. Yes it should be his responsibility but what I am learning is he is not reliable or accountable. I feel like I should just do it all myself and let him go do as he pleases for now and just leave him out of all of it. Mom of D4 does have his number she had been calling him. I believe she more wanted confirmation on who was coming. I was luckily at work so I could not react angrily and after readiing all of this I decided to put on a happy face and say nothing! It felt very rewarding! He actually said he messed up this morning and I just said yea I know she called me. End of conversation!
GRRRRR I wish I had a shut off button to anger. I did let lose on him tonight. He informed me he was going to have OW over to the garage even though the kids were home. I said no he was not we agreed she would not be here and it turned into a screaming match. Mostly me yelling about how we agreed and him saying she was not coming to the house just to garage and me getting madder and madder. I had to cancel my plans to stay home with HIS kids she he could go out. I informed him I am sick to death of being disrespected I am sick of being the only one to watch kids and I am just plain tired of it all. He ended up coming home without OW and staying home by then I had already cancelled my plans so we ended up home together. I would assume he told her she could not come because I am a horrible person ect but O WELL! That does not even bother me. Mind reading but he either respects me enough to listen or just does not want to fight about it. Again I feel if they cared enough about each other he would just go against me. I know I handled it horribly by screaming but I am sick of him pushing the boundaries we agreed to one of them being she could not be at the house or around the kids. I also feel better for standing up for myself though. I just need to do it in a healthier more reasonable and respectful way. He also said something to me about how he doesn't like to spend time with me because then I act crazy and possessive like we are together.
So things I learned through this situation tonight
1. I can stand my ground
2. He will fight my boundaries but did respect them this time
3. I need to be more respectful and reasonable and talk not scream.
4. I will no longer cancel my plans for him
5. I need to keep even moods so we can spend time together and not be so controlling
6. I need to stop pushing him away
7. I can control my anger and let things go
8. I did not continue the fight (180) usually I would follow him around the house continuing the argument but not worth it
9. I need to stick to boundaries of her not being here or around kids otherwise He will not take me seriously
10. I deserve respect and happiness and this is not it right now!
Yes, as you say - managing anger sounds like an important area for you. And it would be a 180 if you are able to do this. You say that you are emotionally abused by him, but you are also emotionally abusive towards him.
Your buttons get pushed by him - not taking responsibility for example - and you react angrily - and screaming match ensues.
'I know I handled it angrily BUT I am sick of him pushing my boundaries'
Accept that your anger is your own responsibility. His 'pushing' does not justify your behaviour. You can maintain your boundaries calmly and assertively. There is no need to have a screaming match. You are right about pushing him away. Who would want to return to that?
Some of the things you are learning sound really good. I think the big test for you will be the next time your buttons get pressed. How will you react then? Perhaps some reading on managing anger in the meantime may be helpful, and you can have some simple steps you will take to avoid a screaming match. Google STABEN technique. This might be helpful for you.
And bear in mind, this work isn't just about your H. This is about you, and how you handle frustrations and disappointments in your life. It will serve you well - either with your H, or someone else.
Good luck!! Toots xx
toots you are right I am emotionally abusive also. Something I know I HAVE to break the cycle on! That would be a huge 180! No one would want to return exactly why I have to change it. Can you give me some ideas on how to do this calmly and assertively even when he continues pushing the issue? that is it I say it the first few times "we agreed she would not be here while I was living her and the kids were here!" His response its my house I can do what I want" My response we agreed and I am saying NO! and It keeps going in a circle. Yes I must learn anger management it is something I have been working on in IC but obvioulsy am not successful all of the time. I will say it has gotten better. My other problem with fighting is I keep score or say things like I go way out of my way for you and you can't even respect me. Or I didnt get dinner tonight because I gave you all the money (He offered to give some of it back I refused and said I would be oK I could eat at home) Or I will say I do everything I am tired of being the only one watching kids ect. Its unfair fighting. I do want to do this for my R but I more want to do this to have a healthy mental health and other healthy relationships with my children and friends. Anger takes its toll on all relationships. I also need to learn to be assertive. I obviously do not hold my own and always give in. I need to set boundaries. I guess those are things I can start working on and "googling" I will look up STABEN and see what it is. So looks like right now for this week it will be to learn about anger management! Thanks toots!
You know, drug users often hang out with other drug users, and they like finding people that have worse problems than they do themselves. When you're doing drugs, getting fired from work for being late, losing contact with friends/family, and behind on your bills...you don't feel as bad when you surround yourself with people that are in and out of jail, robbing stores, etc. You can minimize your own problems because you're not that bad.
Same too with WAS's. In some ways it makes it easier when they act so terribly...it's easy to play the 'good guy' and be the victim, to focus on their problems, to gain sympathy, because you're not doing all of those things. That's what score keeping is all about. But here's the problem- do you want sympathy, or do you want a better life for yourself?
I suggested you read my threads from the beginning one because my STBX put me through an awful lot as well...but only after I let that go was I really able to start growing myself. Until then I figured she had to snap out of it at some point. You used the phrase earlier "It is so hard accepting reality when I know this is not who he is! He can not be living in reality!"
Guess what? This IS who he is. You're the one not living in reality if you think he's a good guy that's just having a crisis. You are 100% accountable for your situation. You put yourself there. You picked this guy. You put up with this behavior. You continue to engage. You can't point at him, he has always been like this.
I know I'm a broken record, but until you let him go, detach, drop expectations, and stop focusing on him, you won't be able to look at yourself and focus on making your life better.
I think you're frightened of being with a stable man. Maybe you feel like he wouldn't need you and no one would ever choose to want you if they weren't desperate. Maybe you feel that being with a degenerate gives you permission to avoid looking in the mirror, to avoid making changes you need to make, like "I'll put up with your crap if you put up with mine". I challenge you to step up your game and take control of yourself. It's a long road, keep going.
Zeus a better life for sure! Just have to keep digging for the strength! I understand this is who is he NOW but this is not who he was when I met him. Heck this is not who he was when we got back together this last time. I know I can not change him I can change me and see if he comes along with the changes. He has always been like this towards the end of every R just not in the beginning. You are completely right. I have to change first and see what happens if he comes he comes if not he doesn't. I need to CHOOSE a better path not more of the same. It is very hard. Especially since I have done the same for so long. But it is becoming to much. I am realizing the more and more I post on here how horrible BOTH of us are. It is not just one of us. I can only control one of us and that is me. I have to choose to move forward and up! I'm happy to hear the broken record sometimes having things knocked into my head makes me realize the truth! I am frightened of all change and loss of what I have considered stability. I know now its not stability but it is what my past has been. I will take the challenge and start reading your thread! How long did it take you to change your thoughts? Am I going to slow? I am really trying to learn!
I will take the challenge and start reading your thread! How long did it take you to change your thoughts? Am I going to slow? I am really trying to learn!
Thanks 4. If nothing else it's nice for people to get to know each other. But I think I've got some of the same demons as you as well.
No, you're not going too slow. Shoot...it took me three months before I really understood the situation. I joined 6/14...something happened on 9/5/14 that woke me up. I won't spoil it, but it was a game changer.
So to me the first 90 days after BD was just me spinning my wheels. None of it mattered AT ALL to STBX. I didn't really begin detaching at Level 2 detachment (level 1 being telling ourselves we should be detached lol) until closer to 11/14, so about 4-5 months in. I really feel like the first 90 days it was all about me thinking I could DB and actually steer my tale into a happy ending.
But just because I felt like I had to 'start over' at month 4 or 5...I didn't. Those first months gave me a foundation of DB principals. They got me through the worst of my grief. They allow me to know I did everything I could to stand by my M. They taught me a lot, because there is nothing like rock bottom to motivate people to change.
I wish you all the comfort in the world in this tough time 4. I've been in an emotional place myself today. Posting on threads of newbies brings me back, and it's like PTSD. It wakes up emotions again and again. I just posted on Sandi's post, man, I am so angry right now just hearing about more PA's, and reliving how I still feel about what happened to me!
The good news for me is that every time I work through those feelings they get easier. It's like 'Flooding', where if someone has a phobia about spiders they just sit in a room full of spiders for hour after hour until they get numb to it. I think these posts help me, because they trigger my emotions, but then I let them go...again, and again...and I learn to not hold on to the anger, to get good at asking God for help, and so on.
So in addition to wishing you comfort, have faith that the pain you are suffering has a purpose, and that IF YOU LEARN FROM IT it will change your life for the better. Please find meaning in your suffering. I sincerely wish for you to be in a better place.
What I am concerned with is I did all of the wrong things for almost a year before I found this site. I have a year of doing all the wrong things before me not just months! Something I know I can not take back or change. I know all I can do is move forward but I have a lot of catching up to do! I wish to be in a better place also. I know only I can control that. I am just having so much trouble taking that control back. I remember being so happy on my own three years ago and then I get back together with the man I thought was the man of my dreams since I was 14 and its been he!! to say the least. I want this R more than anything but again ONLY if we can both be happy and healthy. I am also having an emotional down day. I do not really have a reason to I just don't even feel like talking to him or anyone for that matter. Just curl up in a ball for a while
Goals for today
1. Take girls to park
2. No texting calling or asking to spend time together
3. Get money squared away
4. Clean our room and wash bedding
5. Do dishes
That shall keep me busy!
Well I took the girls to the park for half an hour all they did is fight because they stayed up late last night so home and now they are napping. only text conversation went like this:
M: your mom will watch D7 tomorrow
H ok
H: Garbage done before noon yes I think so
M: What???? Not sure that was for me (i did not ask how day was and yes I think so means nothing to me as I did not ask anything so I think he sent it to wrong person)
H: Garbage done Going to be a good day! (He works for the county park so they pick garbage up twice a week getting done before noon means no garbage all day long)
M: Good I like when you easy going days
Three hours later
M: Got the letter for free lunch today
H: Awesome!
Will be balancing our accounts here in a bit and our room is clean I think I will do bedding tomorrow when I can hang it out. And will do dishes after dinner. So far I think I am on track. Idk conversation could have been shortened a little. I try to be supportive because that is one of his complaints so saying Im glad it is an easy day for him is a 180 because I had been complaining about him not working not making enough.
Also last night we had a conversation I am not even sure what it was about but I heard him say he is tired of the double standard. I can see this all the time. I do hold a double standard a lot. It is ok for me to do things that I get after him about or I will say he can go do something and then complain about it so I need to find a 180 solution for that. I have been trying really hard to listen for his complaints! I agree with this complaint so I will work on it!
He also came home last night and told me we were going racing Tuesday (D4, D8, him and I) He is sitting in grand stands with us. I am glad he invited me. I was also telling him about my plans to take D8 to do something with her dad Friday for her birthday and he invited himself along. I was kind of shocked because he usually wants nothing to do with us on Fridays because he goes out with OW. I also thought it was weird as usually when I say I am going to do something with D8's dad he does not go along. I am glad he is coming but I did not tell him that I just said ok. I did not want to act to excited. I am sure he will go out with OW that night after we get back but I will simply say Ok have a great time. As D8 and D7 will be staying with D8's dad that night so only me and him home. I expect he will not come home that night but we will see since his mom will be dropping D4 off to him at 830 in the morning for him to take back to her mom. Saturday we are keeping D8 and D7 at our house so I assume he will come home even though it is the weekend we usually do not have kids.
I am very confused by his actions to start spending more time with her and trying to bring her around the house more often. I am also confused by him spending the night at a friends with her. this is an all of a sudden behavior? Any insight? Is it maybe getting more serious? I do not know how to read him as we are still doing all of the same things.
All of the above sounds great, and your self-insights commendable!
The only thing I would change, is "I will simply say Ok have a great time" - don't wish him a great time with OW. His way of living right now is disrespectful of you, so don't act as if you approve.
I am very confused by his actions to start spending more time with her and trying to bring her around the house more often. I am also confused by him spending the night at a friends with her. this is an all of a sudden behavior? Any insight? Is it maybe getting more serious? I do not know how to read him as we are still doing all of the same things.
If you knew the answers to these questions, would it change ANYTHING about the way you conducted yourself, or what goals you were working towards?
If 'yes', that's probably a sign that you're giving too much weight to your H. Let him go and focus on doing what you know to be right for you.
If 'no', good job, you're on the right path. Since the answers wouldn't change anything don't bother worrying about it. The truth is he is so lost he doesn't know himself. Might as well wonder why a dog walks in a circle three times before lying down.
Zeus I read 1st thread it's not linked to next what is it called?
Thanks painter I will just say ok that sounds more appropriate anyways! You r right I don't approve so y sound like I do!
Zeus nope it wouldn't change a thing! I would still better myself even if they are getting closer! I want to become the woman only a fool would leave I want to be the better option and that involves fixing/saving me! I did go out today picked up sticks so he could mow and helped clean up garage and mower when he was done! One thing he constantly complains about is me not coming to garage and being supportive I used to sit out there any time he was out there! We will see if this 180 has any affect'
Well I believe things happen for a reason. I have been wondering if there was even a soft reasonable side to him anymore. I have started looking at him as an insensitive a$$. last night the cat jumped on my D8's top bunk bed landed on her face and she needed stitches at 11 pm he had to work this morning but he still came along and kept us both calm and collected. He kept her laughing and talking the entire time. It made me realize he does still have a heart. It also made me realize I do still have feelings for him and that he does have a heart. It made me think we have both made a lot of mistakes. We both have a lot of growing up to and changes to make! It makes me want to work harder on me to become the better choice. I guess sometimes it takes something like this to make us think. I will not allow it to change my course I just know now I want nothing more than to do what I need to do to save my R. I love him very much and hope with time and work on my part things can turn around. I was beginning to feel like he did not care about anything but himself. I am so sad my baby girl had to have stitches AGAIN but glad it shed a new light on my out look!
I'm so sorry to hear about your D - poor girl must have been shocked! I hope she and puss are both doing okay.
Re - your H, it is good that he stepped up to the mark for her and his presence was helpful. That said, try and maintain a balanced perspective of your sitch. He has already cheated multiple times and that is not easily healed from. Have you googled Don Juan affair types? The unfaithful behaviour pattern tends to continue unless there is some earth shattering realisation and change, and a willingness to look within and understand why you have cheated again and again.
Yes you, like many of us, may have work to do. But that work is not all yours, and there would be much work needed from him if the two of you are to have any chance of a successful relationship. Note it, but stay balanced and centred on your own path for now.
Thanks Zeus! Cat and D are doing well! She is excited she can swim for her birthday party!
H yes I am glad he stepped up! Also glad he wants to go out for her birthday! This of course does NOT make up for everything I think while posting all the negative all the time it was nice to see a positive side for once! Yes we both have a lot of work to do but I can only work on me and change me! I had been in a downer funk for a few days and am starting to come back up its nice a lot easier to PMA! That's my goal for today we are taking D8 & 4 to races so just keep a positive attitude and have a great time!
I have 10 months to become that aha moment the better choice and most importantly only a woman a fool would leave and a better person! Each day is one less day so I need to work very hard! It sounds like a long time but in the scheme it is not very long at all!
He has a lot of work also but I can not spend time focusing on that this NEEDS to be about me!
This evenings goal
1 PMA SMILE
2. No r talk
He just told me tomorrow he is going out with OW All kids will be home any good responses?
Vets need some major help! I for a year have been protecting the kids his and mine from his affAir by staying home and watching them. Until recently he has been only going out Friday's (his kids aren't there only mine and I usually do something with her) and Saturdays after the races I take them home get them in bed and he had been coming home every night! Now the weekend we don't have the kids he has been staying with her at a friends house and he has decided tomorrow he is going out! Of course this continues to blow up into a huge fight due to my anger jealousy and because I feel he should be coming home and not going with her when the kids will be home! Until today I didn't look at it as respect that he leaves them home and goes out I guess it's best of both worlds for me she isn't at the house and not around the kids but for some reason still upsets me! I need to look at it like that I guess! My problem is this seems to be a recurring fight how can I handle this better? For me for kids? Is it better to just let him take his kids around and not worry about it or keep protecting the kids?! Just letting it all go would be a 180 and letting him do as he pleases heck even responding calm and not fighting would be a 180! So how can i protect the kids while I'm living there handle it tactfully and stop the fighting
I know people don't think I should shield his kids but I feel it's best for them!
If the kids don't already know about OW they will at some point. As to the question of whether you should 'protect them', if the options are allowing him to emotionally blackmail you into enabling his A vs. letting the kids find out the truth, I'd go with the second option.
What's more important is what you do once the kids find out. See, the kids will be learning what both of you believe is right. They will learn daddy thinks it's ok to be married and date other women.
What will the kids learn from watching you? Will they learn to stuff their pain and cling desperately to an abusive relationship? Or will they learn that when someone treats you unacceptably you have to address it and take care of yourself, no matter how hard the road is?
As long as you try to control your H you're not protecting your kids, you're teaching them how to be in an abusive relationship. If you really want to protect your kids teach them how to handle a tough situation and get it handled!
I really hope you see this- the problem here is all you. Yes, it stinks that you married a guy that has refused to be a partner. But that's the reality. That's not the problem. The problem is that you are still trying to cling to the idea that there is a partnership here. You can't control him, and at this point you shouldn't even want to. 100% of your energy should be focused on putting yourself outside of his reach, emotionally, physically, spiritually. If you don't and you keep getting beat up, that's on you for not walking away.
Your kids already have one bad example. You can either be pissed about that and give them a second bad example, or you can walk the walk yourself. As I say...how can you be angry at him for not being able to let go of OW, when you can't let go of WAH? Seriously. One of you has to grow up. Do it for your children if you don't care about yourself anymore. But DO IT!
I guess I cling to the hope that OW won't last so then the kids are hurt by stupidity but it also hurts them to see us fight! I no longer want to be attached to the abuse and I may be nieve but idk if he is hanging over my head it wouldn't be a big deal if I did not react he would go out kids would know nothing at least until I move out in ten months! I believe with time I can detach and not let it bother me as much I just don't know what to say to him besides ok! I guess since we are not legally vow binding married I'm not sure then kids would look at it like a wife and a girlfriend they call us boyfriend and girlfriend! Does this make a difference? I guess I feel like it's a boundary to respect me while I live there and not interfere with the kids and I! I don't want them to have to pick and choose! It's not so much about keeping her away from them as it is not confusing them and hurting them! For now I need to find away to deal with it peacefully make it a 180 and let the emotions driving me go! I sometimes wonder if I didn't make it a big deal and he didn't know I was fighting for the relationship it wouldn't be so fun for him! Those involve me changing! I am working on GAL so that means I can watch them sometimes and he will have to other times! I do not want to teach them to suppress feelings and put up with abuse I want to set a healthy reasonable boundary here! I don't want the fight anymore as that is a 180! I also don't want them in the middle so it would be very different if I was moving out I would t care it's simply I'm there still and they think we r together!
Zeus I'm not a lost cause I promise I just want to be a better person not put the kids in the middle and so what is right for me and the kids! I don't care what's right for him right now he has made his choices!
I wouldn't still be posting if I thought you were a lost cause. You've been here a month. In a month you have already come face to face with the mountain you must climb, and you have a clear picture of what you need to do. You've even tried taking a few steps, but stumbled down. That's ok. It turns out it won't be fun ride in the sunshine. Now you know this is going to be the biggest challenge in your lifetime. You're steeling yourself. You're planning your attack. You're praying for strength. This hasn't been time wasted.
I'm not sure where the ten month timeline came from. I don't mind it for now, again, until you're in a better spot you don't need to make life changing decisions. But I think you'll be ready to get the heck out of there well before ten months. At least I hope so.
Have you figured out what government programs there are for a single mom for food and other assistance? Any places you can rent that have discounted rates? Are there free or discounted lawyers that could help you claim support for your D? Do you have any idea what custody would look like? Would you still be a part of D7 and D4's life?
Lots of sorting to do, but here's the thing...you need to really get determined, and every day you need to be driven to make that picture become a reality. I promise you this- he's not going to help you. If you need support post here, and now's a good time to pray for strength. Make it happen 4!
Ten months came as school starts this month and not done until May we agreed when he asked me to stay in March we wouldn't move them durrin school so if I'm not out in 3 weeks they are in school plus I will need tax return in 7 months to leave! I am not sure about assistance as I barely qualify for insurance help! I know when he was working seasonal and we claimed my income and only D8 we did not qualify! As for housing assistance I live In a town of about 2000 people only three sets of apartments and no assistance available for them almost all are one bedroom! It's not an option to leave the community as his family is my only support and helps with D8! Grandma teaches at high scho so if emergency let out snow day ect she goes there! I have no family around to help! The district she is in is the best district around also! As for child support ect I do not receive anyone her real dad is in and out of prison and refuses to prove his paternity which is probably better for D! She has a man (my ex) that is her 'dad' by he does a lot for me pays cell phone bill lends money pays half activities and school everything and more than he should and he is not even her real father! Ni have sole custody as she is not H daughter! She is mine from a previous R! I would of course allow H to see her and the other two girls! As for would I still see other two yea! I will attend all holidays and. Birthdays H family has as that is also my family or at least the only family I consider! So even if he re married I would be at Xmas and parties there would be no separation in extended family that would all stay the same! I know confusing huh?! D7's mom and I are really close we talk about whTs going on ect she would have no problem with me seeing her! D4 mom does not care for me therefore she would not let me have her on her time but I'm sure H would he wants them to remain sisters and is best friends! We have always been best friends and can't live without each other as in actually want to be together when we are apart! All this fighting is killing even the friendship! So in short we would still be around each other a lot and kids would still be together a lot
4, I get the distinct impression that you believe if you do all the right things in the next 10 months, then H will come to his senses. Truth is, you may become a woman only a fool would leave but he's just a fool. Then what will you do? The next 10 months are better spent figuring out how you can be an independent woman. If he pulls himself together that will be a bonus, but you will no longer need him.
What happens if you tell him you are not available to watch his Ds and that he and the girls moms need to work it out? At least some of the time?
Sunny I think you are right I do hope if I become a woman only a fool would leave he will come to his senses is it a guarentee nope not even close but at least I will have the benefit of being stronger and happier with or without him! I would stand to guess the healthier I become the less I will NEED him and the more likely it will open my eyes to reality not the dream world I seem to live in!Nee have 50/50 custody so having them watch on our/his time is unfortunately not An option especially with D4 as her mom is not very cooperative! My hope is of course to start over with a healthy R with H but that is second to becoming healthy myself! I can not have a healthy R with him or anyone else for that matter if I am not mentally healthy know how to set boundaries problem solve communicate and control my anger! I want to spend the next 10 months working on those and I would guess if I can complete those changes I will be able to stand up for myself and make a decision on what is best for me to stay or go! Hopefully I will be able to go if he does not follow along and make changes also hopedly I will be able to feel mentally healthier and have learned about boundaries! I do not feel I am making much progress I need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and stop stumbling it's going to be a very long road! It was very saddening tonight driving home I realized how unhealthy this has all been for the first time! For the first time I see it as more of a need than a want! For the first time I am almost happy he is camping with OW in September just to give ME a break some space to really think! My goal is to not contact him that entire week I will be at his races I will go to fence and wave what not but I will not call or text I need that time to reflect To see what it's like being in bed by myself and learning I can be on my own!
Great advice from Zues, and I think your goals and personal work is so commendable. You're making great progress - even feeling sad about insights is progress. It's excellent that you actually want him to be away so you can think!
I understand your uncertainty about what to do with his kids. I think I would go from situation to situation. If you have plans of your own when your daughter is away, let him know that you are not available to take care of his kids. If you are home and don't have a problem with it, take care of them. When you take care of them, you're letting him live the single life. I would think it would be a greater chance of him and OW being confronted with reality if he has to take care of his own children on his own time. What a damper on their fun time! And that's why he has custody and visitation, so his kids can be with him - not you... But I would do it gradually, so he doesn't think you're saying no out of spite - but just because you happen to have plans.
Would renting a room or two in a house be an option for you? That should be a lot cheaper than getting a place of your own?
Hi painter! He always gives good advice! I agree I need to do it slowly! Situation to situation and not cancel my plans for him! My only concern is he would take the kids with and put them in the middle he would not cancel his plans!
Painter renting a room is not an option to small of a town
Today I have been at a conference for work all day text a few times but he refuses to talk to me after last night! What do I do? Very frustrating going on the roller coaster of his silence treatments and closeness!
Honey, who cares if he's talkzing to you or not, and stop trying to make him. If you had a fight and you have something to apologize for, do it. Once. And then let it go. Your energy is better spent trying to control yourself so that you don't get into these screaming matches in the first place.
I simply said in having a rough time right now I'm sorry I reacted the way I did! I need to look at it and remember you are doing what's best for everyone involved! Good bad???
I agree with Sunny - best to apologise once if you feel you were in the wrong. If you continually apologise and pursue him by text, he withdraws. So, break the pattern. You apologised, and now you can do your own thing while he processes things himself.
It has been on my mind, and I wanted to ask you - I hope you don't mind and feel free not to answer. You said that he has been unfaithful to you a number of times. Have you always been faithful to him, or have you also seen other people whilst the two of you were together?
Toots he informed me he is ignoring me for good
I know don't believe what he says!
I have never cheated ON him but we have cheated together on my boyfriends and on his girlfriends! Essentially aren't we cheating now?! I will answer anything because I want to get better! If this doesn't make sense please say so I will clear it up!
4my
Wow .... ok your sitch makes my head spin a bit. Sunny and Toots are helping you out a bit and I just thought I would chime in here.
So you have 3 kids .. your ..'guy' H BF what ever you call him has fathered 3 (or 2 I am confused) kids with 3(or 2 I am confused) different women as you and he have been on and off for 13 years if I have read this correctly. And now .... well looks like dude is going after #4. (or #3)
I am not trying to 2x4 you or anything but seems to me you are in a way enabling him to continue, providing a nice live in baby sitter in hopes he gives you some table scraps along the way.
4my, you need to detach, GAL and build up some self esteem here, if nothing changes... nothing will change ya know? What would make this guy into a man worthy of you .. the prize?
I have never cheated ON him but we have cheated together on my boyfriends and on his girlfriends!
At some point you have to see the crazy up there ^^^^. I had a friend who was cheating on her BF with another guy .... then she was furious when it turned out he was seeing someone else on the side. Relationships do not work with 3-4-5 people ... seems you need to really sit down and think about what you will and will not settle for, might be a great time to read up on boundaries and start believing you deserve better ... better than what you have been given up to this point.
My point ... you have more control of YOUR life than you are giving yourself credit for ... let him do his thing, obviously he is going to do that regardless .... become a better person for YOU .. not him.
HI CaliGuy. I have one child of my own I had between one of our break ups. He has 2 with 2 different mothers. The OW is getting divorced and has 4 children of her own so I do not think he is planning any more children. In fact he told me if I had more than one we never would have tried to work it out because 3 is plenty. Yet he dates someone with 4!
I do not WANT to enable him but am not sure how to set the boundaries without taking the chance he kicks me out with no where to go and no money. I do not think he would but its FEAR rulling. I also do not want the kids involved as they have no idea we are not together and that he is seeing someone else as the household is run the same.
What would make him worthy? He would have to put effort and want into fixing this R. He would have to attend some sort of Counseling individual or together. He would need to become responsible, trusting, open, respectful, faithful, honest, caring.
I am having a very hard time detatching. I have been going out some. Last week I went out twice at least and Monday I took kids to park for half an hour and tomorrow I am going out with a friend to her house for dinner and drinks. No kids will be here so no one has to watch them. I have 0 self esteem I am not sure if that is due to all of my past, this situation, and or my severe depression.
I do see the crazy hence I would like to change the pattern. I am just not sure how exactly to do that. I feel like we have fought more in the last two weeks than we have in two months. I am sick of fighting. I just want to start saying OK to everything to avoid the fight. I want to become a better person but all of this arguing is doing no one any good. I do deserve way better than what I have gotten. I know deep down I know this. I just struggle to break this cycle. Fear of not having him in my life as my H, loosing the kids I have practically raised, fear of not making it on my own, never finding happiness. It is all about fear for me. I feel like if I detatch it will be the end because I am the only one who cares.
I do need to learn about boundaries and co-dependency. I want to become a better person for me and the kid(s). I want to do what it takes to be able to say in the end I did everything I could. If it saves the R it saves it that would be a perfect ending if we both grow learn and try to reconcile. If we dont I will be strong enough to move forward right?
4, just a question. Where does your family live? You mentioned you are in a small town and that you get some sort of help ( babysitting or maybe just friendliness) from H's family. Do you have a relationship with anyone from your side of the family? I'm just curious.
HI sunny. Not really. I mean I speak to my father a few times a year if needed. I have not talked to my brother in years. I talk to my mom ONLY if she calls but usually pass her off to my D as I would prefer to not talk to her. She is very toxic and manipulative. Her and her H very rarely work, have no home, and pass themselves around to whomever will let them stay. I detatched from my Mother 4 years ago when she borrowed money from D's account with promise to pay it back and never did then the next month threatened to call child services on me simply because I would not turn the heat on in october! She has always been this way it just took me 25 years to figure it out and break free. I have a sister I very rarely talk to either. My mom and her H are supposedly going to Texas for work. My father lives about 7 miles away but he is an alcoholic and WAS very abusive when we were children so I do not have much of a R with him. I have several step sibblings but have also not talked to them in probably 7 or more years. I consider my family as distance as I can keep them and H's family is my family. As stated above no matter what I would still be at holidays with H's family no matter what. I lived with them when I was 17 and my mother signed guardianship over so she could move across the united states with her husband my senior year of high school after I attended same school my entire life. She just could not wait a year to move so I moved in with H's family. They are both of our support system. They stay out of the middle of it and will NOT take sides. does this help clear up family sitch?
I feel like if I detatch it will be the end because I am the only one who cares.
4, first of all, good on you to keep posting. I know you feel like you're going in circles...I guess that's what you need for a while to learn. As painful as this is, it's life teaching you what you need to know to have a better future.
I quoted one line I see a lot. You feel like if you detach it will be the end. Guess what? It has already ended. You are in severe, severe denial.
Look at it this way- if he moved out, remarried a new woman, didn't talk to you anymore, and years went by...I think we'd all agree it was over.
Now- suppose you said 'no it isn't, I won't stop trying, I'm not going to let it end!!!' so you sent him love letters, presents, naked pictures, drove by his house, and had an airplane spell 'I love you' in the sky overhead...would that change the fact that it was over?
No! In that case the R would be WELL over, and you'd be a psychotic ex that had stalker issues!
Moral of the story, clinging to a failed relationship doesn't prevent reality from being real.
Your R has failed. That's the reality. Being the person that clings to it doesn't do much good for you or your family. Let it go and face that is HAS ended, and become a stronger woman, someone that can lead your children, and someone that can be capable of a good future relationship...or even facing life on your own if them's the cards you get.
Hi 4mykids,
You have been getting some great advice. As a famous celebrity Dr. has said the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This pattern with your H. has been repeating its self for years. Even if he does end things with this OW he will replace her with someone else. You are living your life totally based on him, his mood, his wants. If he's nice to you yku have a good day if he's not yku have a bad day. You need to take back your personal power. This is not a man going through a MLC that made a band choice. This is who he is. Unless he decides to go get professional help and wants to change he is not going to change. If you are putting all your eggs in the basket of he will commit to me in ten months I'm afraid in ten months you are going to find yourself in a very bad place. Use this gift of time to prepare yourself. Read books on codependency and on how to empower yourself. Break this cycle before it becomes the norm for those young girls. Don't base your worth on how he reacts and responds to you. Just because he does the odd right thing or nice thing does not make up for all the cheating and disrespectful behavior. He owes his own children more and is not stepping up. That alone speaks volumes.
Keep posting. Start reading. You can only change yourself. Learn, read and grow. Then take a look at what's around you. Somehow I think you may see a different picture.
Cheers,
Karma
Hi 4, I'm going to ask you to put your man to one side for a few posts and lets focus entirely on you. He doesn't get a look in - just for a little while okay? We aren't talking about you....in relation to...him. Just you.
There is a saying on this forum. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. How prepared are you for the worst - ie: you guys separate. Because it is a possibility. How would this be financially, practically and emotionally for you? It is a primary area to focus on I think. Because it is a possibility. And if you would be okay in that case - good.
You say that you want to be better, but don't know what to do next. But there are some themes emerging here. Self-esteem, self-respect, being able to look after yourself WIHOUT him, anger, recurring infidelity, codependency....these are all areas you can start to explore, whatever he may be doing.
Actually, my biggest fear for your sitch is that you guys WILL get back together again. Because then I think you would be in for another cycle of more of the same - UNLESS - there is a significant change in ONE of you. As Sunny says, please don't for a moment think this is a MLC. This is how he is. And likely he will continue that way - unless there is a huge awakening for Someone. And you don't get to control him, only you.
So, can we put aside all talk of 'winning him back' in the next 10 months, and switch to your awakening, and how this may save you from going back to more of the same?
HI Zeus- yes you are right I am going in circles not making it anywhere. It is very frustrating. Yes I hope my strength and hard work changing me for ME is his aha moment but if not I guess I will survive!I agree at this time it is over I just cling to hope that it is not over for good for ever!
Thanks Karma! I know I should realize that his behavior has not changed in this long it is not likely to but again I keep the hope alive. I am planning to order the co-dependency no more book and work book and I have a few other books I will be working through on self improvemnet. I am going to IC also. Yes he is making very poor choices but I need to stop focusing on them and focus on me! He will have a lot of proving for me to even consider working it out as long as I make the changes I need to make. At this point today I would not be strong enough to say no. I have a lot of work to do!
HI Toots! I am not prepared at all! It is kind of scary! I would be ok practically and after a few days of grieving and adjusting I may be ok emotionally. Financially is another question. Sometimes I feel living here with him is really hindering me. I need to detatch from that. I think it is possible to do that living her but I need to figure it out!
So I will make this next 7 days about learning more about anger control and self respect. I will start looking for information on them.
If you have any good sites or authors out there I am more than happy to take resources!
Well apparently I'm being ignored again today! He messaged me this morning sent a few chatty messages gave me a hug when I stopped at his work so he could see the girls and then yelled at me when I told him he was denied insurance and hung up on me! I sent 5 pursuing messages he didn't answer a single one so I'm leaving it alone! Toots I did not let it affect my night out still all smiles! I thought about making an excuse and going home to try to talk but I realize it won't do me any good he will just do more of the same ignore me get mad and it would just push him further away so dinner here I come! I think it's a small step not letting him get to me!!
Well apparently I'm being ignored again today! He messaged me this morning sent a few chatty messages gave me a hug when I stopped at his work so he could see the girls and then yelled at me when I told him he was denied insurance and hung up on me! I sent 5 pursuing messages he didn't answer a single one so I'm leaving it alone! Toots I did not let it affect my night out still all smiles! I thought about making an excuse and going home to try to talk but I realize it won't do me any good he will just do more of the same ignore me get mad and it would just push him further away so dinner here I come! I think it's a small step not letting him get to me!!
I would try to avoid borrowing trouble. How do you know he was denied insurance, and why did you tell him? Right now, your position with him is so weak, you shouldn't relay any bad news of any kind to him. I'm sure it's upsetting to be denied insurance, so he will connect the negative emotions with you. He will find out soon enough, was this a letter someone sent to him? Don't open his mail, don't relay messages.
I know that in my role as mom and housewife, I often approached H with problems that came up with the kids, or financial issues. It was often the first thing he would hear from me when he called after work, and although everyday life consists of many problems and housekeeping issues that need to be sorted out, timing is crucial. That was one of my 180s, to stop complaining to H about things that happened, and stop delivering bad news he'd find out about soon enough already. Also to stay out of any problem that wasn't my problem, like his relationship with his children.
If you think of this in very basic terms, it's like Pavlov's dogs - they heard a bell whenever they got fed, and after a while, the sound of the bell made them think of food, so they started salivating just because the bell rang, even when there was no food. Consider carefully what H thinks about when he hears your voice or sees you. And make that one of your 180 turnarounds.
Also, 5 pursuing texts... next time, send no texts...
Enjoy your dinner out!
Painter hi! He got a letter from the state insurance that he made to much! I opened it because I take care of all the mail bills daycare assistance ect! If I did not open it he would have blamed me for not telling him as I take care of it all! He said it was no big deal and I pushed it was that he needs insurance and he hung up on me and refuses to talk to me! We are supposed to take D8 out for her birthday tomorrow but if we can not even speak im not sure it is a good idea! I am sure he will be civil and I do not want to leave him out! I am not sure how to get to a calm again! Tomorrows goal is to not text at all!
Put his mail where he will see it and stop taking care of it. You're enabling him so he doesn't have to run his life and has more time for OW.
If he doesn't have insurance, does it impact you? This is detachment. Don't be his mom. A lot of women lose their men because they go from being girlfriend to mother. It can sneak up on you, because we're good girls who do what we're supposed to, and they seem to want you to do it.
Have you ever tried to meditate? There are many short meditations online that you can try. Just 5 minutes can bring amazing calm.
Hi 4mykids,
I have been following your sitch for a while, finding lots of similarities in our behaviours in our relationships. The mere fact you describe your relationship as on and off, makes me feel akin to you!
I wrote the book on codependency, my life has been rescueing one needy,damaged and emotionally unavailable man after another. My high school crush was a drug addict, and I was his best friend, helped get him clean and straight, only to find a girlfriend, which prompted him to move out of town, he returned, diagnosed with drug induced schizophrenia, I helped him get well and left town for another woman, "thanks jellybaby" he said "I would never have found her without you". The list goes on! One drama after another!!!
Well I loved the drama and chaos of it all, I became not only addicted to the drama and chaos but the to feeling of being needed. And my god when they would get bored of my constant attention and neediness, I would be devastated by their pulling back. They were denying me my drug of choice.
What follows next is not an intention to be unkind, I say this with great love and empathy, as someone who is facing this addiction too. We mainline these men. They are our crack, or heroin. We suck them up a needle and we inject them into our arms and we wait for the rush. The 5 texts ( what you call pursuing), is also called withdrawal. When we don't get that hit, we are left anxious, angry, frustrated, scared, abandoned, rejected.
The best way to start recovery from drug addiction. STOP using the drug. Giving up this kind of relationship crack is not easy, but that is why you are here, in DBing rehab. No contact and no pursuing is the start of your detox from this man that has become your drug. Coming to the board here we are your peer support, we know the pain, the struggle, the pitfalls and the excuses! Me particularly with regard to the excuses. Lol
4mykids this situation gets a whole lot better when you get comfortable with silence and no drama. Right now your man is all about the drama. You can keep getting your fix, or you can save yourself and those beautiful kids.
Please don't take anything I have said unkindly, I know it stings when this lovely DB family challenge you to do something different. I'm still on this journey dealing with my own addiction, but let me save you some time and self esteem and self worth, you can't kick relationship crack when you are still in the relationship. And my friend you are still very much in a relationship. You are not currently in a relationship with a kind, loving man who treasures you and believes you are his prize. You are in a relationship with your drug and this man is your dealer!
I'm here 4mykids, I don't post often on people's threads because I feel there are far better and more insightful and able people here than me, but I know the path you are walking.
You can do this!
Love Jellyb
This situation is just getting worse! Got a message this morning that we are strictly friends I need to move out he can't keep doing this fighting with me and back and forth anymore! Well neither can I! I am sure it is my emotions running me right now but I wish I was moving! I think it would be so much easier but I know he would not be able to see my progress! He stated the other day I was absolutely not working on myself and I lie everytime I say I will! Back to me! Obviously we have text several times already this morning we are supposed to go out with D for her birthday I almost don't even want him to come! I am counting days down until he is gone for a week! Ok rant over back to me! How can I become emotionally detached stop arguing (more of the same) verbally abusive (more of the same) anger control(more of the same) less co dependent (more of the same)! I need to answer this! Let's start with anger! If I can control my anger that will help with verbal abuse stress could help with detachment as if I'm not angry I'm not holding power and resentment! It seems like anger and needs are what is holding me back! So how shall I deal with them? Small steps and goals! I need to recognize when I am getting angry journal my feelings and not hold in my anger but voice it in a calm way!
So goal:
1. I will take 3 deep breaths as I start to feel anxious
2. I will take a 3 minute walk to give me space
3. I will understand that we do not have to agree we both can feel our choice is best
4. I will re read validation thread and boundary thread
Anyone have good resources for anger and co dependency?!
4mykids,
Sorry that text was such a trigger for the aniexty. I have managed anxiety for most of my life, so get the sense of urgency and desperation you feel. Are you taking any, meds, IC, meditation. If not , you may want yo consider taking these next steps.
Anxiety is about mastering thoughts and emotions. Often triggers are based in childhood, often related to unmet emotional needs, or emotional and physical invalidation. There is an opportunity here to slow down and figure this out.
Lady V, has some good resources on emotional flooding that I think you would find helpful. I am sure you have read Co dependency no more, and , there are codependency support groups around based on the 12 steps used in AA and Alanon. I believe there are some online groups too, using the 12 steps. The 12 Steps have provided me with real comfort at times. There are many here who use this work as guiding principals for there life. There is peace to be found.
Keep reading DB or DR the principals and practice are solid. anything on boundaries is priceless as the codependent is boundaryless.
And for interesting reading I found "mr unavaliabe and the fallback girl" some real world practical wisdom. Not academic or well researched by any means, but a real read for women you continue to attract the man who continually dictates the terms of the relationship. I believe you can down load the book from I tunes. I could here in nz.
Codependency has as many nauaces and shades as any addiction. Until you understand what it is and what it looks life in your life, it will be difficult to get a handle on it. The good thing is you are here. And starting to ask questions of yourself and about your relationship with your partner.
Lady V and Zelda's abuse thread is an amazing minefield of information. Read up on reactive abuse. I was a terrible one for losing all emotional control when triggered (emotional invalidation is my number I trigger, anytime I feel invisible, rejected or misunderstood by my partner- bang I would be off - my partner would be verbally and emotionally bombarded, ambushed by very thought and emotion I was experiencing in the moment and leading up to the incident). I didn't do angry, but I was cruel with intimate truths I knew about my partner and his vulnerabilities. I feel lots of shame for this, but I am moving through it,
i know from my own life that when I was in emotional crisis from BD, I wasn't in place to make any big decisions. It wasn't till I had my anxiety under control that other pathways and options became clearer.
Breath well, eat well, move well. This my mantra for staying mentally well. With anxiety, when everything else is out if control, these are the things I can do to find control within myself.
Light and love as you continue on this journey 4mykids.
Jellybxxxx
HI JellyB! Thanks for your posts here. I am very verbally and emotionally abusive when I get mad. The nice part of this situation is while he says it is very unlikely we will work it out it is not out of the question. He has said every time we have talked that he would let me know if his feelings change. If his feelings change and he wants to or feels the need to be with me he would tell me. So I assume that means he has not completely given up just most of the way! I need to read on co-dependency and finding yourself again. He states exactly why these situations happen. Its because I act like a baby and throw a fit when I dont get my way. While that sounds abusive the way he says it it is true completely true. Exactly what I do throw a tantrum and throw things from the past in his face. I will also say I will watch the kids then throw in his face that I always have to watch them. He told me today that he gives me more and more respect and then I do this and we go back to this spot where we are only friends barely talking ect so this is where he is keeping it. He informed me today that they are GF and BF and have been for a few months. I find this hard to believe as we have ML at least 3 times since then so I guess he is not being faithful to her either. I am just lost. I need to control the emotions, be kinder, respective, and not so needy. I am so scared I am losing him as a person in my life. I know the past R is gone but I would like to start over on a much more healthy path. I am just plain hurting and scared. At this point I have no control over anything and it is very very scary to me. I need to get my butt in gear and save myself because I can only handle so much. Im sick of this cycle just not sure how to break it! I just want my family back!
I am very verbally and emotionally abusive when I get mad.
At this point I have no control over anything and it is very very scary to me.
I need to get my butt in gear and save myself because I can only handle so much. Im sick of this cycle just not sure how to break it!
You do have control over one thing 4mykid. You have control over you. Sounds like you've got a lot you can work on. Emotions are one thing, actions are another. It's ok to get mad, it's not ok to get emotionally and verbally abusive.
Do you have an IC? Do you have a meditation practice? Do you journal your thoughts and feelings onto paper? Do you workout?
There is much you can do, but until you get a hold of yourself and truly gain control of your actions, your family will not be whole. It sounds like you've got time to work some things out with yourself, some big ticket items.
Control those.
PP
Hi 4mykids,
There is no "nice" about being someone's planb their second choice, their " fallback" position. Have you asked yourself why that is good enough for you?
I take from you being here that you have read the devastation created by people cheating.you know it for yourself as a person cheated on. He is cheating with his New partner with you? Be it emotional or physical. Do you realise you are now potentially supporting him to cheat.
Look so much of my behaviour in relationships has been so far from the person I thought I was, the values I hold. Check out your values. Is this person who is in relationship with this man really who you are? I would guess it's not, but only you can answer that question.
How you expect your daughters to value themselves in their relationships with men. What you be advising your daughters to do the day the come to you and say " mum he cheats on me all the time, He comes and goes as he pleases, I feel taken for granted and abused". What do you say?
PP said it right you have all the control here over YOU and the sooner you put your drug of choice down (meaning your ex) the better you will start to feel.
I'm going to keep posting 4mykids. I'm gonna keep being your cheerleader.
Jellybxxxx
I've read your entire sitch..in my opinion the best thing you could do right now is move out with your daughter and have some time without him in your life..I'm no expert this is just my opinion..to me it sounds like you are being used by him for many things..didn't he offer to get a loan to help you move somewhere else? Sounds like he needs to man up and take care of his own bills,kids,etc. for a while and you go work on you and take care of yourself and your daughter..just my .02
PP- Hi thanks for stopping by. Right now I am not sure I feel like I even have control over myself. I have TONS to work on 30 years worth of bad habits. I do have IC twice a week but I am considering going back to weekly as I feel like I am slipping again. I do not mediate but will do some research on it. I am not consistent at journaling but that shall be a goal for me. I need to get the emotions out somewhere. I am much better at typing what I feel than writing but I am not sure how to type that and keep it hidden! I am hitting rock bottom probably where I need to be. Especially with news that they are making it official even though we were still ML also. that does not matter though. What matters is me becoming the best me I can be! Thanks for your continued support!
Barbie- That is what I have been thinking lately also. It would be the easy way out. detatchment wouldnt be so hard, working on me and being drug down by all of this would be out of the picture. The only thought I hate about it is another person being in "my house" helping raise these kids. I have worked very hard doing this job. At the same time though I sometimes wonder if it would be a wake up call to him or if he will just throw her in my role. Fear is what hold me right now! It controls me. I am scared of him not coming back. I am scared of all of it!
Well I just got the co-dependent no more book and workbook on my phone. I also spent some time printing out anger management info and worksheets. Self esteem worksheets. And some other co-dependent worksheets. I need to kick my butt in gear and get on with it all! I want to be better and that is going to take a lot of work! He no longer believes I can change so since I am motivated by challenge. I will take the challenge become a better person. I will also take on the challenge of becoming a better choice for a partner as it seems he has not completely given up if he says he will let me know if things for him change. I do not want to "win" him back I would rather he want to come back and work on himself and on us! So off to start reading!
I understand how you feel-my H is with some yucky woman instead of with his family where he belongs but honestly there's nothing we can do about it right now..I'm about to become the best me i can be and if that isn't good enough for him then he can kiss my you know what..i know you're scared..I'm still a little scared..but don't we deserve to be treated like queens instead of some other woman who hasn't done for these men even half of what we have? If you lived close I'd tell you to move by me lol..if he lets her take over your role in that house so be it..you will eventually find somebody who wants you and only you..I have left my ditch and my H in God's hands BC honestly I've had all I can handle as far as him..i know I'm the better catch anyway and she's not even worth my time but I want you to start doing everything possible to make yourself better and feel better and you show him what he left..that's what I'm about to do and it's a good feeling..
Oh and my husband thinks I can't change either
..let's show them they're wrong 😊
I need to be a good example for them teach them they don't have to deal with the BS! I need to teach myself I deserve better than this! I need to teach him I can be a better person the women he once fell deeply in love with! It's going to be a long hard road I have very little support so even worse but I used to be a person that was strong easy going and happy now I'm weak controlling hurtful and sad! Time to turn it around! Sounds good on paper now I just need action!
Started reading co dependency no more feeling like it's geared toward alcoholics which is not the problem! Keep reading? Having an eh ok day not to cheery more crying side due to the huge blow of him saying they have been official for a few months yet struggling to understand why he still chose to sleep with me also?! So confused!
My goal tomorrow
1. No texting
2. No pursuing
3. No control
4. No expectations
huge blow of him saying they have been official for a few months yet struggling to understand why he still chose to sleep with me also?! So confused!
4, you've said this a few times now. Why did he sleep with you? Because he's a cheater! Do you not see that? He's been doing this for 13 years. He cheats on you, he cheats with you. Because you allow it. There's nothing confusing about that.
You are doing fine, 4, this is a difficult road you are on. You've been stuck in the same patterns for years. Now you are trying to change and it's hard. But keep it up, girl, and you will come out better on the other end. And you can teach your daughter a better way. Hang in there.
Hi 4 - Sunny is right. Many cheaters ML with LBS....because they can! Not because they want to reconcile. Actually they want to have both. They don't want to have to decide - A or B. They want to keep a foot in each camp. That will continue if you let it. But it's up to you if you want to draw a line under it. No-one is forcing you to stay as the third point on a triangle. And if a triangle remains in place, things may take longer to resolve.
Please stick with codependent no more. Whilst there may be something of a focus on alcohol, the patterns are relevant in a range of scenarios. I think it comes down to this basic principle of remaining bound to someone, even if it is having a destructive impact on you....and in your situation I think it will be helpful to explore that. I hope you will be able to drop the 'need to win him back' approach and delve behind it - what makes me want to 'win' this R back when in many ways it hasn't been good for me.
Also, with the help stuff - just take it slow and steady. Don't get overwhelmed with too much information. Explore something, post how it relates to your situation, get some feedback. Read some more stuff, post some more etc.....baby steps forward.
Keep on moving forward 4 - it's tough, but you are doing really well xx
Hi sunny I Am sticking with it! I have to workbook too! Should I just read those chapters assigned or read through then Do the work book?! I will try my best to not become overwhelmed
Well responded to his text 3 hours later convo went like this
H: can you pick me up a few gaskets from parts store
H 3 hours later nevermind got one thanks anyways!
M: I would have gotten them
H:got one no big deal
M: sorry I was busy (not true at all)
Got home quiet as a mouse taking a nap then races! He always says I can't treat him bad and think everything is ok the next day so he can't treat me bad and think it's all ok!
I was surprised Thursday night I got home after he was already asleep didn't figure he would say anything about it as he continues to make it clear we r just friends he doesn't care blah blah! Seems he does a little he asked what time I got HOME!? I simply gave a vague time 11 or so I didn't pay much attention! Mystery???
4...I want you to reread this thread from start to finish, then give me an estimate of what % is involving WAH.
I know that you have to vent about this somewhere, and there are times when you need guidance on how to be your best self in tricky spots. Several posters however are challenging you to post things about just YOU.
For example...what you have learned about yourself from the CD no more book. What you're afraid of that leads you to controlling anger. Cycles that you've found yourself in and why, things you're doing to reshape your thoughts and behavior.
Time for a new thread. I'm not saying you can't mention H's name, but if you do as I've suggested and reread your thread you might see what we're talking about and spend more time looking no further than the tip of your nose.
4my, you need not do anything, that is creating resistance in you. Make a choice to change instead. In your posts replace the word 'need' with 'choose'. It is very Empowering as a word, the change sounds trivial but it really will help. I would like you to replace the word need in post above with chose to and repost it. And feel the difference in strength.
My lovely WH is using a tactic called Triangulation, this is when a third party is involved creating a Triangle of relationships. It's a tactic used by some cheaters who set OP and their S against each other. (And in other ways). This dynamites the R between the two other parties and WH steps back, enjoying the ego boost.
It clearly works for your WH as he repeats the behaviour. If you stop cake eating then WH will still need the dynamic and likely find OW2 to continue. This makes him feel important and gives him ego strokes. Sex is a temporary fix to make WH feel something, anything, to fill his empty soul. The trouble is it's like a bucket with a hole, poring more water in isn't going to stop the leak.
If you are getting something from the sex great, don't beat yourself up. But it isn't a committed R as it is.
There are a number of parallels to Liitle1 sitch, she is struggling in a similar way to detach. If you read her threads you may read some similarities. It may help to read another's struggles.
Please ensure you get your sexual health checked when I discovered my WH was a cheater with OWs, I did so very recently and its important.
V
I choose to be a good example for them teach them they don't have to deal with the BS!
I choose to teach myself I deserve better than this!
I choose to teach him I can be a better person the women he once fell deeply in love with! It's going to be an easy road because I choose to find support.
I choose to be a person that was strong easy going and happy now I choose no longer to be controlling hurtful and sad, in fact I will be free, mindful and at peace.
Time to turn it around!
Sounds good on paper now I choose to take action!
--------------------------------
I didn't want to disturb your new thread, so I chose to ................
V