Welcome to Part 2 of my thread. Link to Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592593&page=1So I thought the TM conversation about money was done. Nope. Here's the latest, plus the pieces from the last post.
WW: I hate to bother u with this. But is there anything new on money situation? I'm struggling.
Me: Nothing new. I know it's hard. I'm struggling too.
WW: OK. May I ask if I can count on any of it when you do get it?
Me: I'm not comfortable making any promises right now.
WW: So you're saying it could be zero for me?
FYI, the money she's talking about is a pending payment from my old employer for severance. I haven't replied to her last TM, and not sure that I should. What more can I say? Seems like she's baiting me into an argument.
DWH
IMHO .... your money is not HER money .... not at this point, she chose to leave and move in with OM2, let her put her BGPs on and figure it out. If she hurries up and files it will still take time ... time is good for you ... You did not choose this life, this life chose you.
When my W left, she emptied the accounts, so my golden reply whenever she hit me up for $$ was 'Check that Savings account .. last I looked we had $XXXX.XX in there' (knowing she used it for her condo) .... that bought me a few months then she told me there was nothing there so I emailed her the withdrawl that she signed with "Yeah I seen that"
After that I only transfered my S's School amounts (half to be precise) into the joint account and I then replied to any requests for funds with "I'm sorry but I am not funding your A nor your single lifestyle"
Thats what I did .. not saying it would work for you ... but I would not feed her cake, her choices have consequences ... she should look for work ... granted when/if the D goes through you might have to pay .. cross that when it comes.
I agree with Cali.
You do not have a job, your resources are reducing and you need them for your life and that of your children. The payment is also pending and not yet yours in your hand. That's none of WW business now.
You haven't yet got to decision maker 3 choices, decide if and when you get there, it's far too soon to consider what may be.
Time to use broken record technique.
"I am saying I am struggling too and I am not comfortable promising you anything."
Expect an emotional blackmail technique or two, but stand firm. My WH is the same demands for money. I pay only what I owe, no more and no less.
V
Yep, do the broken record technique!
Thanks everyone for the feedback. As an update, I never replied after that last TM from WW. As the night rolls on, we get to 6:30pm, and still no word about taking the kids. She normally has them by 7pm and has communicated something to someone. I figured she was busy throwing a tantrum, so decided I was taking the kids swimming at the Y. So we left at 6:30pm and stayed around an hour. Kids had a great time.
When I check my phone, I see WW has tried calling twice, and left a TM saying "I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the kids. None of them are answering their phone. And you're not answering."
Well, of course we weren't answering. We were in the pool! I figured with no update from her by 6:30pm I wasn't going to feel guilty doing something fun. I get sick of putting all my plans on hold waiting to see if she MIGHT be having them over. So anyway, I TM back a reply:
Me: "Sorry, took the kids swimming at the Y. Just leaving. Be home in a few."
WW: "U can bring them over"
WW: "I've been trying to reach someone for the last two hours"
(This isn't true. I had no TM until 6:45pm. Same with all my kids, so it was actually 1 hour)
Me: "No idea about the kids. I don't have a text until 6:45"
WW: "Never mind just call it a night"
WW: "Thanks for the communication though"
WW: "Just would have been nice had somebody kept me in the loop"
That last part cracks me up. She's the queen of last-minute cancellations. Barely ever any notice on her plans. But she's mad that I didn't bother to communicate. So I'm sure she's saying all kinds of choice words about me right now. And I don't even care. I'm sick of caving into her temper tantrums. When she wants to discuss things like an adult, then we can talk. The way she's been acting lately, I'm honestly not even sure I want her back. I hope this doesn't last forever. But I'm proud of myself for finally growing a backbone. She dug her own hole.
When my W left, she emptied the accounts, so my golden reply whenever she hit me up for $$ was 'Check that Savings account .. last I looked we had $XXXX.XX in there' (knowing she used it for her condo) .... that bought me a few months then she told me there was nothing there so I emailed her the withdrawl that she signed with "Yeah I seen that"
After that I only transfered my S's School amounts (half to be precise) into the joint account and I then replied to any requests for funds with "I'm sorry but I am not funding your A nor your single lifestyle"
Thats what I did .. not saying it would work for you ... but I would not feed her cake, her choices have consequences ... she should look for work ... granted when/if the D goes through you might have to pay .. cross that when it comes.
Thanks Cali. I love your response to your WW about the savings account. I completely dropped the money discussion with mine today. Never replied to her last text as I didn't feel like getting into a pointless debate. She didn't send any other texts regarding it but I'm sure she's royally pissed. And I think she feels she's somehow paying me back by not taking the kids tonight. Makes no sense to me, but the kids are fine with it and so am I. In fact, I prefer they be with me. They are all getting REAL used to not seeing mom. It's really sad and I hope things don't stay this way forever but I feel like I'm the only responsible parent they have right now, and I am not going to prioritize the feelings of WW over those boys. I'm assuming this is typical WW behavior and she will calm down in a few days, and probably come back nicer than ever, as if nothing ever happened. But I'm finally getting to the point that I don't let her emotions control how I feel. In fact, I'm actually in a pretty good mood for a change. Taking kids to a zoo tomorrow. More updates soon.
So lots of communication from WW today. She tries calling around 11:30am, which I let go to VM - no message left. So I get kids around and head out to the zoo. On the way there, WW calls again, and I had S18 pick it up. They spoke for a minute and S18 says "She wants to ask you about prescriptions". He hands the phone over and I find out WW is stressing because she's getting very low on some of her Rx meds and with no current insurance, the prices are crazy. She called all over town and found the best deal at Sam's Club, and mentioned she could get an extra 40% discount if we became Plus members. Now, I normally would have wished her a good day at that point, but since this is of some interest to me and the kids as well (none of us currently has insurance), I said I would look into it. I told her if it made sense, I would pay the $30 upgrade fee, but would not be helping her pay for her own meds. She thanked me, and that should have been the end of the convo.
But then she just had to bring up the money issue again. Asked if I planned on giving her any more in August, and would I please let her know, so she did not have to keep nagging. Now remember, I have already said no more money on at least 2 different occasions, which she never seems to recall. So I explained again that at this point, I did not plan on giving her any more. Then she launches into how I'm doing it on purpose to hurt her and keep her away from the kids since she doesn't have money to do anything with them (that's BS because there are plenty of free things she can do with them). At that point, I was getting annoyed and said I would let her know about the prescriptions. Then we both hung up. I continued on to the zoo, where kids and I were enjoying ourselves. But WW wasn't done with me yet. Now come the barrage of TMs. See next post for the details.
Around 20 minutes after arriving at the zoo, I get the first of many TMs. Convo below:
WW: S15 and S10 aren't spending time with you either...R they? U see it however u wanna see it. I want my kids and now feel like u r trying to discourage them from coming over to me. And them plan a swimming trip during my scheduled time. No FYI even considered out of respect.
Me: The swimming trip was not so that the kids would not see u. Nobody had heard a word all day so by 6:30 I assumed u did not have plans. I wanted them to have something fun to do. I'm sorry. I should have let u know. From now on, I will confirm on your nights b4 making plans. I do want them to spend time with u. They need mom. If u want to see them tonight I'm sure they would love it.
WW: From what I can see you are making your life seem so much more appealing to the kids because you know I can't compete with your money or free time.
WW: You want them to choose u so they will tell the judge they like it at dads house because he has all the toys and money. or maybe or maybe not...Maybe its a competition to u. So S8 is so afraid to stay the night because he's so worried dad will go do another fun thing...Worried he will miss out.
WW: Why would they wanna come over to my no air conditioned house. No money to do anything. No fun toys here. I'm sure it's quite unappealing.
Me: I'm not trying to compete. I'm trying to build memories with my kids. I've got time now to do it. It does not mean I'm better or more fun. I'm still not mom. They love u and love time with u, no matter what u guys do.
WW: Then your front is "I want u to see the kids...They need u". I can't help it I have to work. S8 don't wanna stay because he would have to get up early to go back to u because u don't want OM to be there in the morning because I would be at work. U made that unappealing for him too. Keep the air going so they don't wanna come over to my hot house.
WW: So in ur eyes if u don't give me any money my hands r tied. Instead of spending the time trying to have fun quality time with me, even though I try to hide it, they spend time with me stressed about everything and quiet and cranky cause I can't afford what u have or give. When they finally choose to spend time with me.
WW: I see what you're doing.
That was the end of the ranting. I didn't reply to that last group of TMs. But then about 90 minutes goes by and she sends this.
WW: But I am glad that the kids are enjoying themselves. I truly mean that. Please tell them that I said that and that I love them.
Me: I know u love them. They know it too. Having a good time.
(I attached several pics of the kids having fun at the zoo)
That's the last I've heard from her today. Notice that even though I offered the chance to take kids tonight, she never took me up on it. And she could have easily had them last night and only lost an hour but she chose to throw a hissy fit instead. So plenty of WW drama and I'm not sure how I did, since it was all on the fly and totally unexpected. Did I do OK?
I say you killed it. Good job
Thanks DNTWNT. It's all just such crazy talk I never know how to reply. Notice how I'm bad for doing fun things with the kids. And even for running my AC in the house. It's been hi 80s all week here, why wouldn't I run it? But since WWs AC is broken, I guess I'm supposed to suffer here as well so it's "fair"? Ugh.
The part about me not wanting S8 to be alone with OM in the house when she's not there is true. I was adamant about that. I said that he was free to spend the night, and I would even be happy to pick him up in the morning so she didn't have to take time to bring him home. But somehow I've made the idea unappealing because S8 doesn't like to get up early. How does she come up with this stuff? I guess the only positive is that she did seem to calm down eventually and sent that one last nice TM. Guess I shouldn't be surprised by any of it, but makes me realize I've got a LONG road ahead.
Only high 80's? It's been 100 where I am! you are creating memories with your kids..she's trying to lay the guilt trip on you..she will be ok and get over it
Dwh
I agree with barb,
Time to say WTF!
Garbage and nonsense. You are happy the kids are happy in Air conditioning, pools and cute costumes with some fun stuff. WW wants to offer similar her choice.
Illogical like saying you have an umbrella when it rains, don't use it because I don't have one.
V
Thanks V. I didn't let any of her spew bother me. In fact, I somewhat took it as a good sign. It means she is starting to notice the changes. I'm ashamed to say it but had not been a very actively involved father for quite a while. I'm doing it now because I want to do it, and enjoy it. I'm doing the kinds of things that I wish we could all be doing as a complete family. I'm sure WW is jealous, and maybe a little upset that I start doing these things now, AFTER she's gone. Nothing I can do though but keep it up and show her that this isn't a phase for me, but how I plan on living life going forward.
She may or may not notice, no mind if she doesn't, nice if she does.
You are enjoying your kids, they are enjoying you. This is for now and for your future, your kids are in your life forever, WW may or may not be. You have grandkids , holidays, bbqs, xmases health, joy and lots of stuff in this.
What is not to enjoy, it matters not the past, it matters what is now and the delightful delicious giggling joyous memories that you made today.
And every day with your kids.
V
Exactly right once again V. I didn't mean to imply I was doing this for WW, or even hoping she would notice. I think I'm finally reaching the understanding and acceptance that the changes I've made and continue to make are for me and my kids. I don't know what happened but just over the last couple of days, it's like something inside clicked. I still think about and miss my W but I'm starting to enjoy life again. I really enjoy time with my kids and my close family. I'm actually excited about the prospect of a new job, and making new friends. And I continue to be involved with my church on an ever increasing basis. I have not totally given up hope that one day we may all be together again as a family. But I'm also realizing that even if that does not happen, everyone will be just fine. I'm adjusting to being a single dad, and am not in any rush to have a new romantic relationship. I want to prioritize my kids for at least the next year or two, and not worry about finding a new partner. When the time is right, that will happen. I have faith that God is watching and will make sure everything turns out how it's supposed to in the end.
Dwh
It's a nice place to be.
V
Dwh, I myself have been getting the same spew for a few weeks. It's tough! But what matters is that the kids are having fun! My WAW when leaving packed half of the silverware and bath towels. I thought to myself what good is half a set of anything so I packed the remainder up and sent her on her way.
Fast forward a few weeks and I'm a jerk for buying new towels and silverware??? She says it was unnessisary! Haha God forbid I buy something for MY house.
Also as far as the activities go. When I have S4 I always try to have something fun planned. Not to be in a competition. For him. He has been dealing with enough lately and none of it is his fault. So even on my worst day I drag myself out of the house and make myself out on a happy face
. I'm apparently rude for that also because she can't afford to do anything? Not my problem... Not his problem... He deserves his childhood. I think it would be better as a family but if this is how it is gonna be, he will at least have some good memories instead of all bad!
Uphill, that sounds EXACTLY like what I'm dealing with. You can't win, no matter what you do. Do fun things with kids, you're a jerk because W can't afford to do the same and you're making her look bad. But of course if you didn't do fun things, you're a jerk to the kids and they deserve better. I'm not catering to the wild emotions of my WW anymore. The kids come first, me a close 2nd, and WW doesn't even come into the picture. If she happens to benefit by accident, as something that I'm doing to help the kids, then I chalk it up to a nice coincidence.
So I had a dream last night where I was with WW at a family event and she was in a great mood. Talking to my family, all smiles, and trying to justify her choice to be with OM, how it was all an accident and they started as just friends, etc. I started yelling and calling her names, then woke up. Of course I felt totally pissed off. In the time since I woke, I've went between anger, sadness, and finally a dull emptiness. Guess the roller coaster is still moving, but fortunately the hills have gotten a lot smaller. I dread the thought of this going on for another year or more. I know my W is suffering too, but in different ways than me. She misses her kids, and is scared to death about how she is going to get by financially. It all seems so pointless. I wish I could call her and tell her to come home, be a family again, let me take care of her. But I know it doesn't work that way. Hoping for a good day ahead.
I posted this last night, but I think you had started a new thread.
She will try different techniques to get more money from you. She will be all friendly acting, throw screaming fits, threaten, bully, cry, flirt.....or whatever she thinks will make you buckle. So, take this as a warning.
I posted this last night, but I think you had started a new thread.
She will try different techniques to get more money from you. She will be all friendly acting, throw screaming fits, threaten, bully, cry, flirt.....or whatever she thinks will make you buckle. So, take this as a warning.
Thanks Sandi. Yes, I've already seen some of what you mentioned. Be nice one minute, then try and turn on the guilt and anger the next. So far, I've held my ground. My big concern is still having to deal with her once I land a job. I've had 2 interviews just this week and don't think it will be much longer before I get an offer. I know that WW is expecting me to start funneling money to her again when that happens, and I've decided that I will not. I've got no interest in helping her fund her A and continue destroying our family. She'll either have to file herself, or some time within the next 9 months I'll probably do it myself. As I said before, I'm running up against a 20-year M clock where I'm looking at potential permanent spousal support and there is no way I'm allowing that to happen.
So I figure the ride is going to get a whole lot bumpier in the next few weeks. I'm still open to suggestions on best way to handle breaking the news to WW, although I'm not sure it will matter much. I know she's going to be off the rails crazy and angry.
dwh
Great job in handling this the way you have .. reading it really looks like you are finding your stride here. As far as the dreams ... I have some NASTY ones, especially currently as I am processing things a bit differently ... I was told (by my W ironically via her IC) that dreams are a way our brains process through information ... so having these dreams in a way is your brain dealing with them for you on the subconsiouc level ... not sure if I buy into that fully ... but after the real nasty dreams annd my next day a wreck like yours ... I tend to move a bit further and have a much better few days afterwards.
I did want to offer some advice on the TM. And given the fact you might actually file .. this might be a good time for you. I set a very firm and hard boundary with my W. She would blow up my phone TM wise, and I realized I was just feeding gas into the fire .... when we would argue I thought by TM atleast I would not get interupted .... but tone and intent are often misread in TM, especially in heated topics ... I just could never make any progress. So I told W I would no longer discuss serious issues via TM nor phone. Those conversations would be done civilly and in person. When she would start to spin-and-spew I would one time tell her I would not be talked to in such a way, if we could speak civily then we can finish the conversation, otherwise I had better things to do than rehash the past and argue pointlessly.
This took some time, but I am so glad I did it (With the help and suggestion of the vets here) Even now, W knows she can not spew in my direction as I will just not have it ... its not constructive and does little good. We can discuss hot-button topics civily .. or wait until a time we can. She also knows now that TM is not a good medium for such talks nor spew as I will just not respond to it .... during the boundary session she did hit a record high 28 TM and 8 missed calls to which no replies were given, they will test you.
Thought maybe this might help you in the months to come ... as like Sandi said ... she is going to pull out all the stops to squeeze you for what she wants and ensure that her fantasy A she has dreamed of in her head stays on track ... fortunately you are not on that crazy train any longer.
dwh
I did want to offer some advice on the TM. And given the fact you might actually file .. this might be a good time for you. I set a very firm and hard boundary with my W. She would blow up my phone TM wise, and I realized I was just feeding gas into the fire .... when we would argue I thought by TM atleast I would not get interupted .... but tone and intent are often misread in TM, especially in heated topics ... I just could never make any progress. So I told W I would no longer discuss serious issues via TM nor phone. Those conversations would be done civilly and in person. When she would start to spin-and-spew I would one time tell her I would not be talked to in such a way, if we could speak civily then we can finish the conversation, otherwise I had better things to do than rehash the past and argue pointlessly.
This took some time, but I am so glad I did it (With the help and suggestion of the vets here) Even now, W knows she can not spew in my direction as I will just not have it.
Thought maybe this might help you in the months to come ... as like Sandi said ... she is going to pull out all the stops to squeeze you for what she wants and ensure that her fantasy A she has dreamed of in her head stays on track ... fortunately you are not on that crazy train any longer.
Thank You Cali. Regarding limiting the serious conversations to in-person only, I would like to find out at what point did you do that? It seems to go against the LRT techniques and min contact, to make the W miss what she has. But I agree how things can be mis-communicated, especially via TM. I'm thinking that the pending convo regarding D is one of those topics that simply has to be discussed in person. I figure that I'm at least 5-6 weeks away, by the time I get a job and have to confront WW for the expectations on money. Right now, it's been nearly 5 months since BD1, and around 4 months since she officially moved out. I know that she is really struggling with her emotions about missing the kids, and how she is going to support herself. I think that is good and part of what she needs to go through. But I don't want to initiate too much personal contact too soon. It's still hard for me to see her so not sure I'm ready for it yet either.
Thank You Cali. Regarding limiting the serious conversations to in-person only, I would like to find out at what point did you do that? It seems to go against the LRT techniques and min contact, to make the W miss what she has. But I agree how things can be mis-communicated, especially via TM. I'm thinking that the pending convo regarding D is one of those topics that simply has to be discussed in person. I figure that I'm at least 5-6 weeks away, by the time I get a job and have to confront WW for the expectations on money. Right now, it's been nearly 5 months since BD1, and around 4 months since she officially moved out. I know that she is really struggling with her emotions about missing the kids, and how she is going to support herself. I think that is good and part of what she needs to go through. But I don't want to initiate too much personal contact too soon. It's still hard for me to see her so not sure I'm ready for it yet either.
Was actually to the contrary. Electronically we are FAR to available ... when ever they need to speak to us .. Boom... Instant right>? So after I set that boundary .. granted she tested this and I would not respond. In fact I was given a pretty good guideline on TM responses and incorporated them with my "no Business talks" approach.
Typical TM/Call : Reply 1-2 hours
TM/Call concerning S(kids): 15-30 minutes
TM/Call Emergency: Immediate
TM/Call Serious Discussion- No Reply
TM/Call that was considered "Temp Check": Pick battles/No reply.
I would not initiate any of this. She fired me .. no need to call the office ... nor return their calls when they realized things were not working as smooth without me there.
Granted I would give in here n there but as soon as I felt uncomfortable or that I was not grounded with my emotions in check .. it was time to end the discussion ... and thats another nugget .. always be the one who ends the discussion, this often does not get enough play here but the simple psychology behind it leaves them wanting more, pursuing you mentally regardless if they act on it or not.
That is so right about the telephone conversations, there are always long pauses on our convo's. Now that I realize that these pauses are in a way pursuit behaviors, I have stopped doing them. I end the conversation first.
OK then, thanks, talk to later and then just hang up.
Great advice guys. I actually did end the call first when talking to WW yesterday, but it was one of the first times. She often beats me to the punch, but I'm learning. Need to start counting sentences or something. I know I always felt terrible when she did it to me. And of course, after I ended that call yesterday, I got the barrage of TMs, to which I replied a total of 3 times. Compared to something like 12 TMs from her, so I was proud of that as well. The techniques mentioned here and in the books are so powerful, and work so well, it's almost an unfair advantage. But I'll take any edge I can get in this war on my family.
Cali, I'm going to read up on your sitch tonight. I know you've been at this for a while and I'm just in the early stages; it's really overwhelming to think about it. But I'm committed and hopeful that I have at least a chance. I know I should be focused on me and the kids, but today has been a tough one for whatever reason, and I'm really missing my W. It's been a struggle to not reach out to her, but I stick to the plan. Thanks for the support.
Cali, I'm going to read up on your sitch tonight. I know you've been at this for a while and I'm just in the early stages; it's really overwhelming to think about it. But I'm committed and hopeful that I have at least a chance. I know I should be focused on me and the kids, but today has been a tough one for whatever reason, and I'm really missing my W. It's been a struggle to not reach out to her, but I stick to the plan. Thanks for the support.
HA... bring a snack lunch ... I think I have about 18 threads (no joke) and I have been here now a year. It was a long process, my W was MLC ... the approach is the same but there are some differences. I do think had she been a typical WW I would have pushed harder than I did. I made mistakes along the way .. but the personal growth was well worth it all.
Just noticed a post on WWs FB about going to some party and riding with OM on a Harley to get there. Then of course all her biker buddies "like" the post. Puke. Then what really cracks me up is she's suddenly got all these single loser friends from high school "liking" almost every post she puts out there. I mean, these guys are in dead end jobs, look like they're in terrible physical shape, but I can only guess that they somehow think they have a shot now. Guess they're waiting for the current A to fall apart so they can swoop in to be the next in line. OMG, it makes me sick. Sometimes I wish she were less physically attractive. Don't know why but seems like it would make it easier for me to handle.
I know I'm hurting myself by even looking at her FB stuff, but it really pissed me off. It's the kind of thing that makes me want to run to an attorney and file, while hurting her as bad as I can financially. How do people find the strength to put up with this for months on end?
FB will break your heart dwh! I've been on 4 times since BD and on all 4 occasions something has kicked my butt and made me swear to never go on there.
It's a time waster anyway. Live your real life, let her FB friends "like" her on the internet.
So my S8 decided to spend the night with WW for a change, but as usual had to call and speak to dad before bed time. The poor kid always struggles so much making the decision, like he's betraying me if he stays with mom. It breaks my heart, but I talked with him for about 5 minutes and he seemed in a good mood. Then he handed the phone back to WW and we spoke for about 5 minutes.
I said he seemed in good spirits, and she seemed surprised. She thought he seemed very conflicted, as usual when he stays. We spoke briefly about plans for the next day, and what time I wanted her to drop him off. We're heading to my mother's tomorrow to take their new boat out on a local lake so told her I needed him here by 2pm, which she was fine with. Then she asked about whether I had a chance to look into the Sam's Club membership upgrade for prescription discounts. Told her I had and it actually does seem like a good deal as a couple of S15's medications can be had for big discounts w/o insurance so I informed her that I would be upgrading just for the purpose.
She then started talking about the cost of her own prescription and how she wasn't sure how she would afford it. I could tell she was going for guilt again and waiting for me to offer to help. Mentioned how she wasn't sure how she was going to afford it and didn't know if OM would give her the money for it. I said that maybe he can do it just for this month, and suggested she consider looking into public assistance. Told her that I'm also looking into for me and the kids, as I have no idea how long before I'll have insurance through employment again.
Then, she asked about my recent job interview, which S18 must have mentioned, since I had not said a word to her about it. So I gave some high level details but overall tried to not sound optimistic, even though I'm feeling that way. I'm pretty sure that she's hoping for me to hurry up and land a new job so I'll start funneling money her way again. So she wished me good luck, and then, right as I was looking for a way to end the conversation (always be the first to leave), she says "OK", with that distinct tone of voice letting you know the conversation is over. Darn it! I immediately jumped in and said I had to get going, asked her to keep me informed about dropping off S8 tomorrow, and wished her a good night. But wishing I would have ended the call just a few seconds before she got out that last "OK". Gotta work on that technique.
So overall I feel it went fine, but sort of bothered about how little she really seems to care. I've been sitting around obsessing about her all day, and I don't think I cross into her thoughts at all, other than when she worries about money. Guess that's typical, but it hurts. I'm proud of myself for staying calm and not taking the bait when she was fishing for help on her script, so guess overall I did fine. Hoping for a good night sleep and a fun day tomorrow with the family.
I have absolutely 100% blocked WH and anyone else on Facebook. The only one of WH family that is not blocked is his niece who WH doesn't contact much because I really like her a great deal indeed. I do particularly love WH sister and decided to leave contact to her but she isn't an FB person.
I don't post to FB other than to keep in contact with a couple of female friends, I am much more linked in and that's very business admin. I also had my FB identity stolen so I use a fake birthday.
Dwh it is very difficult phase but I see no reason why you should fund WW and her A, There is an OM when she went to him and he took her in he knew her sitch so they can provide or she can go get a job. Sounds like you did well on the cono. Stick to admin if you can and just be pleasant.
V
Thanks V. I don't plan on any further funding for WW, not until one of use files and there is a support order in place. I'm really not looking forward to that convo we're bound to have, but it has to be done, and put the issue to rest once and for all. I think I'm going to say something along the lines of I don't agree with her choices and I've got no interest in helping support her affair. Beyond that, I'll do my best to remain calm and detached. If she threatens about filing herself, I'll tell her I understand and she needs to do what she thinks is best for her. I'm sure she's going to bring up the kids, try to make me feel guilty, possibly make threats about us not being friends, or maybe how she's going to make me pay in the divorce process, etc. I'm trying to prepare for the worst.
I still haven't decided when I want to file, assuming WW doesn't beat me to the punch. Feeling very discouraged right now. Looking back, I can see issues dating back almost 5 years, when I think she first started checking out of the M. I know for sure of the 2 recent affairs, but suspect there may have actually been another several years ago, although she denies there have been more than the two. It just seems like a long time and a lot of pain to overcome. I honestly don't know if she is capable of ever coming around and giving us a chance again. I still deeply love her, probably now more than ever. And I want my kids to have a complete family, and I want the chance to show her how things could be so much better. I just don't know if it's possible.
Praying for peace.
She then started talking about the cost of her own prescription and how she wasn't sure how she would afford it. I could tell she was going for guilt again and waiting for me to offer to help. Mentioned how she wasn't sure how she was going to afford it and didn't know if OM would give her the money for it.
Pretty good example of how the WW will use both men to get what she wants. Her needs are always priority to her.
Pretty good example of how the WW will use both men to get what she wants. Her needs are always priority to her.
Exactly right Sandi. So WW drops S8 off today and is in a fantastic mood. Brings me some fresh peppers from her garden, has gifts for each of the kids from garage sales she had been to that morning. I was in the middle of cleaning, but engaged in small talk, smiled, while keeping at my cleaning duties and acting uninterested in what she was doing.
She mentioned how she would be having a Sunday dinner tomorrow and every Sunday from now on, and the kids were always invited. It's a bunch of her new friends coming over, and she seems really excited about it. Funny how I could never get her interested in having company or hosting events when she lived her. She did talk so S10 and mentioned doing something one on one with him soon, which I was happy to hear, since they rarely spend time together. So I feel I conducted myself fine, but after she left, I'm again questioning whether there's any hope. She just seems so content and happy, and shows zero interest in having anything more than a friendly R with me. Honestly, I believe that if I were to tell her I was dating someone, she would be happy for me, rather than jealous. Maybe it's just part of the ups and downs of a WW, but it certainly is discouraging.
As long as all her physical and emotional needs are being met, she will have these "highs". There may even be times she will pretend she's happy b/c she doesn't want to admit anything is less than perfect with her and OM.
She has to go through a process. It is not microwaveable.
Thanks Sandi for the quick reply, and restoring just a little bit of my hope. Of course you're right that there are going to be "highs" along the way. I don't believe it's sustainable long, or even medium term. And I guess if I look back just a couple of days, her mood was totally different, so I have to quit making assumptions based on a single interaction. So I stay the course for now. Off with my kids to grandma's house to check out her new boat. I need some fun distraction for a few hours.
Ah, grandma's house........best place this side of heaven! Have a great time.
Well, Grandma's turned out OK. Only negative was we took the boat all the way to the lake and the battery went dead. So no cruising around. My S8 was pretty disappointed as it would have been his 1st time on a boat. But we headed back, BBQ'd some great steaks, swam in a pool, and S8 got to drive a go-cart, which he loved, so all in all not a bad day. Unfortunately, my mind was pre-occupied with WW most of the day, but I tried to make the best of things and ensure the kids had a good time regardless, which I think they did. So I'll call it a success, but was sort of a rough one for me. I'm doing all these fun family things, and just keep thinking how much WW would love it if she were here. I can only hope and pray that she eventually starts to miss actual family time and seek to prioritize it over a party girl lifestyle.
Journaling:
Slept pretty well, and woke with the usual few minutes of emotional ups and downs, but snapped out of it. Saw that WW texted me around 1am asking if I made it home from Grandma's house. She had asked me to let her know when I was back home, as S15 and S10 were home alone, and honestly, I just forgot to do it and fell asleep so didn't see the TM til today. Sent a quick reply this morning apologizing and saying everyone was good. No reply.
WW had invited all the kids over to dinner at her place today, and was supposedly having a few friends over. But she texted S18 this morning saying she had made plans to go have dinner with her uncle instead, so would not be having them over today. She's only got one uncle who she's close with, and he typically comes into town around this time every year to catch up with family. WW and I met him and his wife last year for dinner/drinks and had a great time. So I'm sure that's the uncle, but I really hope WW doesn't plan on bringing OM to meet him. The thought of it makes me sick. I really doubt she would, as none of her family has met him yet, in spite of a few attempts to introduce him. They keep making excuses, but the reality is nobody in her family is interested in getting to know him right now. They have told me as much, and are hoping that the two of us can still patch things up. So no idea, but the thought of it is driving me nuts. I don't know her uncle well, but he really is a nice guy, and I'm sure he won't view the current situation fondly. Maybe he'll be able to talk some sense into her, but then again, who knows what she'll tell him about me, looking for sympathy and justification.
Just reading your sitch. I have blocked my H on FB as it did hurt to see few things, and since I have done this I'm better. Don't look at her FB as it'll only push the digger deeper in your heart as you are starting to heal.
Thanks Rouky. Normally, WW's FB posts are cute little quotes or pics of her and the kids so overall it hasn't been too painful. The one that recently got me was actually a friend of hers who posted to her timeline. It gave me an inside glimpse to her "other" life, and it hurt. I'm not going to block her yet, unless that keeps happening. In the past 5 months, this is maybe the 2nd time I have seen anything on her FB which actually caused me pain. Fortunately, she doesn't seem the type to deliberately always be putting pics or comments out there talking about how great her life is. In fact, she has never posted a single pic of her and OM. Outside of me, my boys, and a couple of close friends, I don't think any of her old relationships even know what he looks like, including her own family. I'm thankful for that, at least.
Journaling:
Slept well, but woke up with the usual roller coaster of feelings for about an hour. Not quite as severe today. The loneliness is the worst of it. Even with the kids around, sometimes it really hits me. I fired off a few TMs to friends and family, and after getting a few replies don't feel nearly as bad. I'm hoping that when I start a new job and get into an office with other people, it will keep my mind occupied and make the days go by faster. I was able to schedule a last minute lunch with a good buddy today, so heading out shortly for that. Have my volunteering with a local youth group tonight and that's usually a good time as well. Just feel like I'm going through the motions most days though. I'm ready to start feeling normal. Sometimes I wish I could just be the friend my W wants me to be, but I know I can't do it, at least not now. Maybe years down the road, after I've totally given up any hope of us working things out as a couple. I don't know. Just hate that it has to be this way.
Back from lunch. That was fun and cheered me up. My S8 got a TM from mom, who wanted him to ask me to print out some bowling coupons. Seems like the past few days, she's fallen back into the habit of texting kids when she wants something, instead of asking me directly. I don't understand it, but I guess whatever. Suppose it makes things easier if I just don't ever expect to hear from her, other than thru the kids. Hard to believe that just a few months ago, we were another normal family with a few problems in the M, but nothing that couldn't be worked out. I'm trying to think of this as time that I have to learn and improve myself, which I am doing. Just seems like the hurt is never going away some days.
So finally got a TM from WW today. She asked if S8 had relayed the message about bowling coupons. I replied, yes he did and they are ready. Then she said she had a past due notice about her school loan. I had been paying it the past few months but decided I was done with that. Told her I would pay July, then it was up to her. And I only agreed to July because I had forgotten to mention it, and had not sent her the login info yet.
I could have been a jerk about it, but figured this was a fair way to make the transition from me to her taking care of it. She now has 2 weeks til the next payment to figure out how she wants to handle it for August, and going forward. Then she sends one last TM simply asking if she still has car insurance. I have me, WW, and S18 all on the same policy, so I replied Yes. Nothing further after that from WW. I should probably drop the insurance at some point too, but the title is still in my name and my lawyer said I should transfer it to WW before dropping insurance. So my take is WW is still very upset about me cutting off the money. Probably why she hasn't been communicating much the past couple days. But I need to start enforcing those boundaries and letting her know what life looks like w/o my help.
But I need to start enforcing those boundaries and letting her know what life looks like w/o my help.
Absolutely!
It sounds like we are pretty much in line with each other dwh. Still funding some of this mess but weening off and it is causing waves in the WAW minds. We have to be strong and not cave! My weak spot is the kid and I know it's the same for most people here. These ugly people we thought we knew try to use that to lever us into giving in. And it works. But I feel at this point it is the only way to be, so slowly I am going to be paying less and less to give her the "independence" she wanted.
Uphill, I'll go check out your thread, but sounds like we are in similar boats. My mistake was made early on. I took WW with me to meet an attorney and go over the numbers of what child custody would look like. Based on those assumptions, I started giving her what we both agreed would be the likely amount. It was stupid of me. I should have consulted attorney on my own, and never agreed to give her a penny until one of us files for D.
So I'm slowly digging my way out of that hole, but nearly there. It was me making foolish decisions in the middle of my own shock, and thinking I could somehow "nice" her back into my life. Of course, we all know that doesn't work, but at the time I had no idea. In hindsight, if I would have implemented correct DB techniques when this all first started, I prob could have avoided WW ever moving out, and maybe had a shot at getting us into MC or something. I don't know; it may be good that she left on her own. It certainly has strengthened my child support case, and is going to make her reality far more brutal than it would have been staying here. Plus, I think I would have had an impossible time trying to detach with her still here. It's dang hard even barely seeing her. So maybe it all worked out for the best. Just gotta keep moving forward.
I follow lots of threads but rarely post on any other than my own because I feel like I struggle to do what works in my own sitch. I don't want to try to give advice on top of that! Haha I did everything wrong also, seems like a common thing around here. I currently have a L working on custody papers for 50/50 right down the middle. I pay child care, S4's insurance and also her auto policy (title in my name also). On top of that I had been giving money to help as she was threatening child support. I even bought her groceries because she was broke. That is going to stop very soon. I got to thinking.... He uses all the same stuff at my house as he does hers. I pay all his expenses, clothes, shoes, insurance, copays, child care... Everything. All she has to do is make sure there is food on the table when he is there and I end up doing that also?!?! Wtf? I never sat back and looked at it but now that I have I feel like I'm getting raped!
All she has to do is make sure there is food on the table when he is there and I end up doing that also?!?! Wtf? I never sat back and looked at it but now that I have I feel like I'm getting raped!
Umm, yeah. Sounds familiar. Cake eating by a WW. She will take you for every penny you let her have. Plus, she'll be thrilled to have you around as a shoulder to cry on when life gets tough. Gotta pull the plug on all that brother. Tough love time. I took a while to "get it" but it's all sinking in and I'm laying down the boundaries in full force now. WW doesn't like it one bit and is trying to punish me (I believe) by trying to do NC on me. Texting only to the kids, etc. Well, I say enjoy it WW. If anything, it's just helping me detach quicker, so thanks for that. Her life is going to get very tough from a financial perspective, while mine continues to improve. And I'm in no hurry to file for D, so that means no court ordered support until she ponies up for an attorney. I wish her luck in raising the dough for legal representation, when she can barely afford groceries.
And even if she happens to find some poor sap willing to try and get it out of me, I'm prepared with my own attorney and detailed logs of time spent with kids going back 2 months. She's got a very hard road to travel coming up. I really don't enjoy making her suffer, but I'm protecting myself and my kids, and doing what I figure gives me the best shot of getting my family back. I'm hoping and praying it works out for all of us, but I'm committed to making sure me and the kids will be OK regardless.
Not much going on today. Spending time catching up on some other threads, which really helps my mood. WW took S18 and S8 out for bowling last night, and then back to her place for dinner. S15 and S10 stayed home with me, as usual. The others came back around 11pm, nobody stayed the night, again as usual. Other than a couple of quick TMs about finances yesterday, nothing at all from WW. It's helping me detach, but I still find myself wondering about her mood, and missing her. Think I'll take all the kids to a movie this afternoon for some fun GAL.
Just got back from the show. Ant Man is very entertaining if anyone wants a good family movie, especially if you like super hero stuff. Kids all enjoyed it and was a nice distraction for me as well. Got home and saw WW tried calling the home number but no message left, and she didn't send me a text or call my mobile, so assuming it was nothing important. I'm not going to bother asking what she wanted. Been really missing her the last couple of days; not sure why but it's been hitting me pretty hard. Hope it starts to get easier soon.
Ok, just gotta vent. I know I shouldn't pay any attention to WW's FB posts, but the hypocrisy of her recent ones kills me. First, she copies a nice loving quote about children:
"My kids are my heart and soul. They will always be my babies, even when they grow old."
Aww, how sweet, right?
Next post, just 5 min later:
"Sometimes you have to do what's best for you and your life, not what's best for everybody else."
WTF? So I guess her kids are her heart and soul, EXCEPT when it comes to doing what's best for herself. I'm mind reading here, as she may be talking about something totally unrelated to our sitch, but it peeved me all the same. Not looking for advice here, just venting. Figured it was better than posting a comment or complaining to someone. Ugh. Not enjoying life much right now.
Recommendation
Stop the FB completely.
V
Been reading through Sandi's thread today. It's actually helpful and gives a lot of insight into how my WW must be feeling. Also a little discouraging because I'm realizing what a long and difficult journey this is likely to be, with no guarantee of the outcome. Don't know why I'm suddenly having such a hard time detaching, but the last couple of days feel like a major setback. There hasn't been any drama, barely any contact from my W, but I'm feeling the sting of her not being here as bad as ever. Maybe the lack of contact is what's causing the issues. Up until recently, I usually had some sort of input from her, either good or bad. Now I just sit around wondering. I guess the lack of a job is starting to become an issue in terms of having way too much time to sit around and think. Usually if I can stay busy, I do much better, but there's only so many hours you can fill in a normal day. I hope I can bounce of this funk soon.
That's why it's called a roller coaster. Some days are good and others - whammo - not so good. For whatever reasons (and who knows what the reasons are) there are setbacks in our detachment or emotions.
It's all part of the process and normal.
Stay busy my friend.
dwh
I have a full time job ... heck I spent half of it here on this forum ... work like a mad man to catch up then back here.
Trick is not getting a job to stop thinking about her so much .. its ... yeah .. you know whats coming right? DETACH ... job or no job .. if you do not detach you will continue to obsess and analyze every single thing they say or do.
Hey .. make a change .. drop FB for a month... don't worry Mark Zuckerburg will not hunt you down and I am positive FB will survive without your amazing status updates .. I double dog dare you.
Thanks for the support guys. Believe me, I've been working on it. Detach...that's the secret. But I guess I'm struggling on exactly HOW I'm supposed to do it. I try to stay busy and sometimes can enjoy myself for an hour or two w/o the W sneaking into my thoughts, but then she's back. I keep hoping that time and distance will do the trick, but it doesn't seem to be helping much.
Now given all that, I attended a divorce support group for men tonight at my church, which meets every 2 weeks. It always makes me feel better, and after the meeting tonight, the rest of my evening I have actually felt pretty calm. I'm trying to accept that this is in God's hands, and have faith that He will lead me through it, and has a plan. And I find that as I accept and hold onto that thought, I do actually feel a lot better. I also know that my W is not acting in a moral or rational way, and do not believe she is 100% in her right mind, but is addicted to the WW lifestyle and acting similar to how any addict might behave. I can't know for sure what she's thinking, but it helps me to believe that this is truly not the person I fell in love with, and allows me to have patience, to hope and pray that she finds her way home.
And with that calm, I find myself able to concentrate on myself, being a good father, and improving my life. For tonight, I am grateful for the few hours of peace I have found and pray that tomorrow brings even more comfort. I'm starting to really lean on my faith, and it is an amazing feeling.
Toots volunteers in a charity bookshop. She refers to it as her bookshop GAL. Is that something (volunteering) that you could consider?
V
Well, I re-joined a local chapter of a national club tonight, and spent a couple of hours catching up with old friends. They have a local clubhouse where they serve cheap drinks, pool table, darts, sometimes bands. Sort of like a bar, but only members can come in.
WW and I were both members a couple of years ago but let our membership drop, largely because she got into a big fight with some of the officers of the club. There ended up being a lot of people that I still recognized, and who remembered me. It was a lot of fun just hanging out and catching up. If you remember the TV show "Cheers", it sort of reminds me of that. Any time you walk in, you're bound to see someone you know. I think it's going to do wonders for my GAL. It's open every day, and I already asked about helping out when they run special events, and need volunteers to cook, tend bar, etc. When we were members before, WW spent a lot more time there than I did, which in hindsight, probably wasn't a great idea. But now I'm doing this for me, and am excited about it.
Between this, renewed connections with friends and family, and getting involved with the church, I feel that my life really is heading in a positive direction. I'm sad and upset with myself that it took something so drastic to make these changes, but I guess that's pretty typical around here. The good news is that, overall, I've had a much better overall day that the past few. I hear from S18 that WW seemed stressed last night and mentioned that it had been a long week. I swear, she seems to say that on a regular basis. I know she's struggling with money, and can't be sure, but get the impression things are still very up and down with OM. I so badly want to reach out to her and ask her why. Why put yourself and your family through all this suffering? But I know it wouldn't do any good, not at this point. I'm still hoping that she figures things out for herself, and decides that she wants to try to work on things. In the mean time, I'm busy planning a life w/o her for me and the kids, and knowing that, while it wasn't what any of us chose or wanted, that we will still find happiness.
WW called today to confirm plans for tonight with kids. It was pleasant enough. I tried to sound upbeat, answered all her questions, and had a little small talk. Of course she had to ask about the job situation; think that comes up every time we talk. She's still clinging to the hope I start giving her money again as soon as I'm employed. I'm proud that at least this time, I cut off the conversation first. She sounded in a good mood, so who knows. She seems to be all over the place every other day. I have a feeling it depends on how things are going with OM lately. It's very discouraging, and every day I'm losing a little more faith than there's any hope for a R. She seems so far removed from the thought that we will ever be together again. It's hard to accept but I'm doing my best to continue moving on.
Only 2 of the kids went to see mom last night. Same 2 as always: S18 and S8. Other 2 with me, as usual. WW took them bowling and out to dinner. They had fun and S8 really wanted to spend the night but WW had plans to go with OM to a late night dinner (midnight). She wanted S8 to come along, but he was way too tired, and decided to come home. I don't blame him. Who in their right mind thinks that an 8 year old wants to go to dinner at midnight?
But after he got home, I could tell he was upset. He had really looked forward to staying, and mentioned he missed mom. I did my best to comfort him and eventually cheered him up a little. But it's the kind of thing that tears my heart out. I just don't understand how a mother can abandon her children like this and barely spend any time with them for months on end.
It bothered me enough that I texted WW and told her S8 seemed upset, like he had really wanted to spend the night. She replies back, almost defensive, that she had tried to convince him, but that he was always torn, would think I would miss him and be upset with him. Or that he would miss something fun I had planned the next day. She still seems bitter that I'm trying to plan fun activities with the kids, like it's all a plot to have them like me more than her. She never considered that maybe S8 simply didn't want to go to a midnight dinner with OM. Why is she making plans like that on days she is supposed to have kids anyway? It's extremely frustrating. I can only guess that it's part of a wayward mentality and hope that she eventually comes out of the fog. She is permanently damaging her R with all her kids.
hi dwh, just stopping by. skimmed over threads 1&2. wouldn't be surprised if I missed it, but in a nutshell - why has WW escaped? what was she not getting in the M?
There is generally a gripe about us, and although it is not always "sound" and certainly doesn't justify treating your family like this, let alone your H, it might be a good thing for your own growth sake to address these issues at least. Growing through the grief will do unimaginable things to your mental state and perception of yourself. It is humbling, and through the humility it is easier to forgive, be compassionate and perhaps attractive to your W.
You're doing a great job to manage 4 boys, 2 with "problems". DON"T take on her as well. She wants out. Give it to her. Stop facilitating her. Just say NO. One expression my WW repeated over and over at BD was I owe you nothing, I owe the M nothing. obviously I can't agree with that, but you know what - now she is asking for favours, to accommodate her new life and honestly can't see why I am not complying. It is not a vengeful thing at all.
In my case it would be hurting me an my girls to accommodate her, and that is all I would be achieving. So it is clear cut for me. It sounds callous, and maybe part of me is vindictive and enjoys denying her favours which I am not proud of, but you know what - now - that she is in R with OM, takes him to family etc, the [censored] even stays in m y house every 2nd week when I am not there wit the girls, she wants D etc - I really do owe her NOTHING. If she wants out - give it to her!
Journaling:
Volunteered at my church this morning. Part of the greeting staff which meets people at the door. It's a large congregation, over 1,200 between two Sunday services and I always feel good putting on a smile and shaking hands as people show up. Got to talking with one of the other volunteers, an man in his 60's, who had been through a D years earlier. Married to his 1st W for 24 years with 3 kids, and suddenly some sort of MLC and she decided she had to "find" herself. I swear, as I ask around, I am amazed at how common this situation is with women in their late 30s and early 40s suddenly going nuts and bailing out on long term marriages.
So it was nice talking to someone who had been through it. He did give me a little hope, in that he had a friend who went through something similar a few years ago, got D, and after 2 years apart, they R and got married again. It's good to hear a success story once in a while, although I realize the odds are against it. I'm still struggling with emotions, still think about my W constantly, but am doing my best to keep busy around the house and plan fun things with the kids. I'm 5 months out but starting to think it's going to be a full year at least before I even start to feel somewhat "normal" about my sitch.
hi dwh, just stopping by. skimmed over threads 1&2. wouldn't be surprised if I missed it, but in a nutshell - why has WW escaped? what was she not getting in the M?
That's a good question, and one which I can't totally answer, because she never wanted to discuss it. After BD, she was so done with the M that I didn't even get the chance to hear her gripes. She just left, after maybe 10 minutes of discussion. And hasn't wanted to talk about it since. I know that she felt alone, ignored, and taken for granted. She used to constantly say she felt like we were roommates or "friends with benefits". This went on for so long that I quit even responding to it. In hindsight, it was a huge red flag, but like many men, I didn't see it that way. We had definitely grown apart the past couple of years and she was spending at least 3-4 nights/week out of the house. Always supposedly out with girlfriends, but now I know that it was actually with OM. In response to that, I started shutting her out, not paying much attention to her even when she was here. I felt lonely myself and unhappy, but wasn't sure how to fix things. I had suggested MC on multiple occasions, but WW always shot the idea down, saying it wouldn't do any good.
I had also become very negative in general. Annoyed at people, critical of my own kids. Not happy with my job. Never wanting to do much socially, and hiding in front of a computer for hours on end playing games or browsing the internet. Just not a fun person to be around. I feel that I have changed most of the negative behavior in the past few months. I'm a better father than I have probably been my entire life. I have developed great relationships with every kid, we do fun things together, I make all the meals, do the laundry, give the baths, etc. Basically a single dad doing his best.
I have also reconnected with all my immediate family, and a few of my extended family such as cousins, aunts, uncles. I talk to my sister every day, and both my brothers, and mom at least once a week. Before, we would go months on end w/o seeing each other. I've gotten back into the church, which I been away from for over 25 years, and am getting involved in as much as I can to connect with people. I have reached out to old friends, and am making new friends on a regular basis. Even my job situation is changing, although not by choice, and I've had several interviews recently which went well so feel that something positive is coming on that front soon. I no longer lose my temper when something bad happens. I take it in stride and handle it calmly. I think the kids are amazed sometimes that I don't blow up.
On top of that, I feel that I do a much better job just listening to people and empathizing. Not trying to offer suggestions or solutions, but just listening. I feel that was probably another bad habit I did with WW. When she had a problem, I always wanted to offer a way to fix it. Didn't realize that she wasn't necessarily looking for a solution. She just needed to talk about it. I continue to look inward for other ways to improve, and plan for that to be an ongoing process in my life going forward.
As far as letting her go, I agree with you, and feel that for the most part, I have. We are down to almost NC, other than a handful of texts regarding plans for the kids. I have cut off all financial support, and no longer do her any favors, unless it somehow benefits me or the kids as well. It's been very hard to let go, but after a few weeks of playing the part of BFF to a tee, I realized I wasn't helping myself or her. I did get plenty of contact from her doing it, all kinds of details on what she was doing, how she was feeling, etc. Probably the best we've gotten along in a long time. But I just couldn't adjust to her wanting to discuss OM and the latest drama with him, or how wonderful he was with kids, bla bla. I hung on for a while, thinking that the closeness we seemed to have could be a door to R, but I was totally fooling myself, and after doing enough reading on line, especially from Sandy about the WW, I knew it had to stop. I would have been "friend zoned" for life. Still haven't given up all hope but doing my best to detach, give my kids and me the best life we can have in this sitch, and praying for a miracle that some day my WW will find her way home.
Was actually feeling pretty good most of the day yesterday. Like I was finally starting to accept things, not focused on WW. But woke up this morning bummed again, and still thinking about her. Guess it's all part of the process. But happy that I seem to be coming along, however slowly it may be.
Back to feeling OK again this evening. The roller coaster is always in motion. WW has the usual 2 kids tonight: S18 and S8. Took them bowling and back to her place to visit. I fed them dinner before they left, as she has sent me a TM around 1pm asking if I would mind. It was actually nice to have an early heads up for a change, so I thanked her for that. On previous occasions, she would just sent a TM around 4 or 5pm saying they kids need to eat before they come, and have them here at 7. WTF? So at least she's being more considerate now. Seems like we're setting into a reasonable co-parenting routine for the most part. Still far from ideal, as S15 and S10 rarely spend time with mom, and the others only see her 3 nights/week for 3-4 hours each. But guess it's better than nothing, and I'm not sure my W is capable of more right now. Makes me sad.
So my 2 boys both came home tonight, again. WW offered S8 the chance to stay over, and he waffled back and forth a few times before deciding he wanted to come home. I know it must hurt her feelings every time that happens, which is pretty often. But I have a hard time feeling sorry for her. I'm always glad to have my boys come home to me, and part of me hopes that she's hurting. My relationship with all my boys has blossomed over the past few months and I can see a future where we are all going to be so close the rest of our lives. Unfortunately, I don't see the same for my WW, based on how things have been going. My S18 has lost most of his respect for her, and I wouldn't be surprised that the others start to feel the same as they get older and fully understand the circumstances. It's such a shame that a mother would choose a life with a man she barely knows over her 4 kids and a man who has stood by her side for 24 years. The consequences are going to be severe for all of us. I only hope that my boys are able to get by all this and not have it impact their own future relationships.
dwh,
Your WW is losing a great deal, it's a very heavy price, like spending on credit cards the bill comes later.
Sandi gives the greatest advice on it.
All I can say is what a terrific dad you are to your boys and how much I enjoy reading about your family. It warms the heart of this lass. Inspirational in the changes you have made, the growth and the stability for all in your family.
It hasn't been easy, but this is with grace and fortitude. A great privilege to read about and inspiring.
V
Maybe the lack of contact is what's causing the issues. Up until recently, I usually had some sort of input from her, either good or bad. Now I just sit around wondering.
Maybe reviewing the link on detachment will help. It's all about your mental attitude, you know.
I guess the lack of a job is starting to become an issue in terms of having way too much time to sit around and think. Usually if I can stay busy, I do much better, but there's only so many hours you can fill in a normal day. I hope I can bounce of this funk soon.
You are probably right about too much time. Look around and see what's going on in your community activities. Is there anyone in your neighborhood you could lend a helping hand, anything to stay busy.
Thanks for the replies V and Sandi. I recently re-joined the local chapter of a national organization. It's charity based, and has a clubhouse right down the street, which basically acts as a bar with cheap drinks, but you have to be a member to go in. My WW and I were both member a couple of years ago, but dropped our membership after she had a falling out with some of the trustees. I recently joined again, since one of the trustees is a friend of mine, and was down there tonight. There are a lot of people, typically an older crowd, and it was nice just hanging out and having a couple of drinks. They all remember WW and for the most part don't have a great opinion of her. She volunteered her time bartending, and I am actually looking to do the same starting soon. Figure it will be a good way to meet all the members. It is a nice way to spend time and a fun group of people. But I find myself still sitting there thinking of WW on a regular basis.
It's even hard to hear other people speak of her in a negative way. Everyone expects that I hate her at this point, and I probably should, but for some reason don't. I still love her with a passion, and wish she would come to her senses. I know you can't just flip a switch on a relationship of 24 years, especially when you share 4 beautiful kids together. I am really hoping and praying that at some point she realizes what she has done and wants to try to rebuild. I fear that her life is going to be full of sorrow and regret otherwise. But I am trying to focus on what's best for me now, and my kids. God, this is hard. Praying for peace.
Thanks for the replies V and Sandi. I recently re-joined the local chapter of a national organization. It's charity based, and has a clubhouse right down the street, which basically acts as a bar with cheap drinks, but you have to be a member to go in. My WW and I were both member a couple of years ago, but dropped our membership after she had a falling out with some of the trustees. I recently joined again, since one of the trustees is a friend of mine, and was down there tonight. There are a lot of people, typically an older crowd, and it was nice just hanging out and having a couple of drinks. They all remember WW and for the most part don't have a great opinion of her. She volunteered her time bartending, and I am actually looking to do the same starting soon. Figure it will be a good way to meet all the members. It is a nice way to spend time and a fun group of people. But I find myself still sitting there thinking of WW on a regular basis.
It's even hard to hear other people speak of her in a negative way. Everyone expects that I hate her at this point, and I probably should, but for some reason don't. I still love her with a passion, and wish she would come to her senses. I know you can't just flip a switch on a relationship of 24 years, especially when you share 4 beautiful kids together. I am really hoping and praying that at some point she realizes what she has done and wants to try to rebuild. I fear that her life is going to be full of sorrow and regret otherwise. But I am trying to focus on what's best for me now, and my kids. God, this is hard. Praying for peace.
When we care for someone so deeply we care about how they are going to do regardless of our presence. That leads us to feel a compassion for them they often don't freaking deserve. We are thinking clearly and know they are not. We know that when the fog finally lifts they will regret this decision for the rest of their lives. That said we can't bail them out or open their minds if they aren't open to self reflection. Best of luck DWH!
Journaling:
Slept pretty well, but had a strange dream about WW. We were all at my mother's for some get-together and she was there as well, off doing her own thing. Noticed her hanging around with some seedy group of guys I had never seen before, and lost track of her. Then I panicked and ran around asking everyone where she went. Nobody knew a thing. After a few minutes of frantically searching all over the place, I woke up. And then just felt depressed. I think the lack of communication is really hitting me hard. I have never went this long before w/o talking to my W on a daily basis. I so badly want to just send a text and ask how she's doing, but I know I don't dare. Think I'll go hug my boys to make me feel better. Man, this [censored].
Dwh,
I have felt that exact same way. If it was not court ordered that my WW and me don't communicate I would have sent her texts. I just know if I could not have stopped myself. Your doing good. Self discipline is very diffiucult during this time. Perhaps you should imagine a judge putting you in contempt of court if you text her. That may make it a little easier to resist.
Dwh,
I have felt that exact same way. If it was not court ordered that my WW and me don't communicate I would have sent her texts. I just know if I could not have stopped myself. Your doing good. Self discipline is very diffiucult during this time. Perhaps you should imagine a judge putting you in contempt of court if you text her. That may make it a little easier to resist.
You got court ordered not to communicate? Wow! I guess in some ways I feel lucky that although my WW has definitely went off the deep end of mental stability, so far she hasn't really shown any desire to be vindictive or hurtful. I can't imagine how much worse that would make me feel. It's bad enough just knowing that she doesn't seem to care.
I feel I've been doing well on restraining myself, but I do reply to TMs that she sends. I always keep it short and to the point, usually about kids. She contacted me 2 days ago just to confirm plans for kids that night, and I expect it will probably be the same today. Sad enough, it will probably make me feel a little better even getting those 1 or 2 messages. I really wish I had a way to know how she was feeling, but it's difficult to discern when you don't spend any time together at all. The kids usually tell me that she seems happy, or maybe a little stressed, but I chalk that up to worries about money. It's so difficult to keep going, but I am hoping that it does get easier as time passes. I feel that it has gotten a little easier in past couple weeks, but definitely still a huge challenge.
Had a job interview today which went pretty well. I expect I'll probably get an offer. It's one of those things I'm just dying to tell my W but know that I can't. This just kills me. I'm excited about good news, and I can't share it with the person I love more than anything in this world. I really hate this process sometimes. I know it's for the best, but it's just so hard.
Well, I think that my WW is getting ready to file for D. I'm still paying for her cell and check the logs, looking for stuff just like this. She had a 15 minute call to an attorney this afternoon. I feel like I just got punched in the gut. I'm crying one minute and angry the next. If she goes ahead with filing, I'm not sure that I will want to R.
I know that for her, it's all about getting financial support, and she knows she's not getting any until a court order is issued. What gets me is that she knows I'm unemployed with limited funds, and taking care of the kids 95% of the time. But she's so self centered, all she can think about is her own problems. She's living with a guy who she was ready to leave just a couple of weeks ago, and he actually told her ILYBNILWY. For THAT, she's willing to give up 24 years with someone who would die for her. I feel like dying right now.
Also, assuming I get served, I'll be fighting for near full custody of my boys. I've got detailed logs going back 2 months that show WW has spent next to no time with them. My attorney seemed confident that, given the history, I had a very good chance at full custody. She will likely end up paying me support, not the other way around. It's not how I wanted to handle things, but if this ends up being the way she wants to play, I'm not laying down for it. No idea how that ends up interfering with DB techniques or chance of R, but honest at this point I don't care. If she comes after me, I WILL protect myself and my kids, at any cost. I know that MDW recommends mediation over attorneys in D proceedings, but I'm not the one firing the first shot.
dwh
I am of the opinion when it does come to this .. the fantasy the WAS has in their heads needs a good hot reality shower. This would be that time. Absolutely fight for your kids.
DWH you have done a great job so far. You and I are on about the same time line and I feel like you are decades ahead of me.
One thing I would say, let go of the snooping. Get off of FB or least get her off of your FB. Don't look into her cell logs. You don't know the context of the conversations and you are just mind reading. You need to let go of the snooping for you. That is one area I have had a lot of success with and let me tell you, it feels awesome to not even have the desire to snoop anymore. All it did for me was create more stress. It helps you so much to stop doing it.
I feel your pain. I wish you nothing but the best.
One thing I'd like to say as well. I just finished reading both of your threads. You are a strong man. I believe you will be one of the inspirational people around here.
Thank you for the support guys. late30, such kind words. You are right, I need to let go of the snooping. It's the one area I have really struggled with, but the thing with the call logs had to do with trying to keep up with her possibly filing. She has mentioned it a couple of times and I thought better to be prepared that it may be coming than get blind sided. When I first saw that same number pop up about 3 weeks ago, it's what prompted me to go speak with my own attorney, and he gave me plenty of good advice. I guess at this point, I may as well assume that papers could be coming any day, and not worry about the rest now. It's clear that WW is still living in la la land, and only worrying about herself. The good news is that I think that realization is going to give me the strength to detach even further, and really start to move on. It would be a relief in a lot of ways.
Well everyone, I got some new information tonight that totally changes my goals. I no longer wish to stay married. Ran into some old friends tonight who have known WW and myself for a long time. Turns out that in addition to the 2 affairs I already knew about, there were 2 more years ago. And a lot of people knew about it, just not me apparently. Guess she had quite the reputation at a couple of local bars. It made me sick to my stomach hearing about it. But they say she confessed everything to them. Funny how nobody ever wants to tell you the truth until it's way too late.
So no way could I ever look at her the same again, or trust her. She has some serious mental issues, and needs therapy. I will be going for full custody of all my children, as I honestly do not trust the judgement of my WW. I plan to keep DBing, in the spirit of improving myself and my children's lives. I really hope that my W gets some some therapy and straightens out her life, just for her kids sake. But I won't be standing by her as her H. There is way too much damage that has went on for way too long to ever rebuild. The sheer amount of dishonesty is overwhelming.
So good luck to all still in the fight. I will continue reading and posting updates, but with the intention of getting myself through the process. I hope that maybe WW and I can some day be friends, IF she ever gets the help she needs. I am so sad, yet in a way relieved. I pray for myself, my children, and even my WW that we all find peace and happiness.
Dwh,
That's some disclosure 2 more As, is this something you trust? Everybody knew? I doubt it. Though why would she tell friends. It's very odd behaviour to own up to, but my WH did the same, even showed others his online dating profile.
If you feel that there is truth there then is there any way to prove this? Intel not snooping.
I am very sad if it's the case, this is very hard to know. Yes I discovered the same about my WH, OWs and POWs too numerous to mention. In some ways it makes life easier in the D.
I have to say this, go get tested if you are at risk. It's important for your health and the wellbeing of your family unit. I can say that as this is something I had to do recently. It was my final spell breaker. Go figure.
Remember this process is about you whether you repair your R or no. Your journey is just beginning, please keep sharing and posting. You have much to offer and I for one want to support you in your journey. Not all of us repair our M but we do ourselves.
V
After thinking about it for a while, I'm tempted to ask my W to have a conversation tomorrow. Since I no longer wish to save the M, I do not wish to continue playing this NC game. I think the kids would be better served, and the 2 of us as well, if we could actually establish a working relationship, maybe even a casual friendship. I know that she often feels lonely, and I feel that I could perhaps be a positive influence in her life. I will need to set some firm boundaries, such as no asking for money or big favors. But primarily just someone to talk with. Yes, that maybe turns me into the gay boyfriend, but as I said, I see no future with us romantically at all. I think I would rather just have her open up and confess it all, try to forgive her, and move into a new relationship.
I also hope that would allow us to discuss the custody issues in a non-confrontational matter. I still plan on going after 100% custody of at least 2 of my boys, and a good percentage of my youngest. I plan on being firm, and if she chooses to fight me in court, then we will have to have that battle. But I'm hoping that we can resolve everything in an adult manner. Amazingly, I feel somewhat sorry for my W. I really feel that she has major issues and needs therapy. I hope that somehow I can lead her in that direction, and help in whatever way I might, to make her a better mother. It's amazing how liberating it feels to know that my decision is made. It has been a very hard road the past few months, but I am confident that God has a plan for me, and it will all work out in the end.
Dwh,
That's some disclosure 2 more As, is this something you trust? Everybody knew? I doubt it. Though why would she tell friends. It's very odd behaviour to own up to, but my WH did the same, even showed others his online dating profile.
If you feel that there is truth there then is there any way to prove this? Intel not snooping.
V
I believe these friends of mine. They have no reason to lie, and one of the OM I had already strongly suspected. To hear them mention his name was the final confirmation I needed. The other one I had no idea about but they would have no reason to make up yet another man, on top of the known three. The reason W confessed to them is because she sort of got caught in the act of talking to one of the OM on the phone at her friends house. The very same friend I spoke with tonight. I never spoke of this before, but that same OM had actually called me years ago and told me he and WW had been having an A for 2 years. She denied it, and convinced me that he was crazy, which I eventually ended up believing. But enough different people have mentioned his name that I no longer have doubts.
It's a very sad tale, but the reality appears to be that my poor W has been seeking extra-marital comfort for nearly 5 years. I am positive of at least 3 men, have no reason to doubt a 4th, and given the history, would not be surprised that there were many more. I have no idea what changed in her to become this way. She certainly was nothing like this when we met and for the first several years of our M. Even these same friends I spoke with thought the same. At some point, it's as if she snapped, and has been living a secret life for a long time.
I just don't see how I can ever look beyond the years of betrayal and lies. I really do feel sorry for her, and care about her. I don't want to see her continue this path, which I fear ends up very badly for her, possibly even with her attempting to hurt herself. I want my children to have a mother and a good relationship with her. But I could never trust her again. I would be wondering where she went and who she was with every time she was out of sight. I could have forgiven a single OM, or in this case, even the two that I knew about. But this pattern of years indicates a serious underlying mental or moral issue, and I have no idea if it can ever be repaired. I will continue to be the best father I can be, as I am the only stable parent my kids have right now. And I know that I am going to be fine.
Dwh
A co parenting arrangement definitely. friendly certainly but friendship?
Frankly not your job, WW has created her own mess and bed, sacked you as her H.
Trying to resolve WW issues is her job, not yours. Talking on kids admin, yes but discussions on her mental health, trying to guide etc. Looks like control to me, maybe the best intentions and she is the mother of your children, but she has been living the single life for 5 years. Her choice and no longer your role to stop her from being lonely, WW has to discover there is a difference between being alone and being lonely. Only she can fill the empty hole in her soul, not you or any OM or her children.
It shows that As burn out in a couple of years.
I am not surprise you snoop, you have been lied to multiple times but the truth always outs in the end.
In due course, a smart sassy, someone only a fool would leave guy, is going to want a new R. This will interfere with that somewhere. Crazy exes are no idea of fun, managed co parenting is different.
This is not your bag, let WW deal with this, getting involved can be an issue. It's lengthens the drama and it stops WW having to come to terms with herself. If she has disordered then the less involvement you haven hen the less damage to you and your boys. Arms length until recovery, NC other than kids looks good to me.
Time to let go and WW to live her dream, empty though it is. You can still stand for new M and for you. If WW ever resolves her issues and seeks new R, that is a decision for then. This is more than an addiction to an unsuitable OM, it is a path of behaviour that needs professional counselling. Not your job role any more. By attempting you delay the crash which isn't helpful to WW.
These are my thoughts and 2c.
V
And I thought I had added a paragraph but looks like my edit time ran out.
Nothing you did, absolutely nothing you said, caused WW to go wayward. She misled you and deliberately, if she was unhappy then resolve it, don't just cheat.
She made a choice to be that way. Poor WW indeed, this WW is going to have a big surprise. Expect anything.
V
dwh15,
I hate this for you. I agree with what V is saying on the issue of what should be discussing with WW. I would also say that before having this discussion give it a few days. You have just learned some very hurtful things about WW. You do not want your emotions getting in the way of what should an otherwise calm, business like discussion with WW. I would also consider talking to L before saying something to WW. Playing your cards close to your chest is very important. If you want that type of custody agreement she does not need to know. Her L will start preparing to defend her based on that knowledge. The less information shared, the better when it comes to preparing for court.
I just went through this and know that even the smallest of details or hints of information can hurt your chances in court. I am sure you have read this on the board several times, treat it like a business deal. You do not reveal anything you do not have to. You are not going to be able to reason with WW or scare her into not taking you to court. She already knows her position. She does not need to know that you know it as well.
I agree with all WhyUs is saying.
V
Thanks for the replies V and Why. After sleeping, or rather NOT sleeping, on it, I agree with you guys. Trying to have any sort of relationship with my W other than as a coparent right now is not good for her or for me. She needs to feel the full consequences of her choices, and I'm going to delay that action with any sort of friendship on my part. Also, I realize that even though I have decided I don't want the M anymore, I am not totally detached yet. It's going to take another few weeks, or maybe months. For now, plan is to keep with DBing, as I think it will really help me grow as a person, father, and friend. Plus, I am hopeful that it will speed along the eventual emotional crash of my W and persuade her to seek some professional guidance. I really do hope she gets help, if nothing more than the sake of my kids having a stable mother. Will keep posting as details unfold.
Dwh
It shows that As burn out in a couple of years.
V
I forgot to comment on this quote. V, funny you should mention that, because when I look back at the history, every OM that WW has been with last 18-24 months, or less. I expect no difference with current OM. It's only around 5 months in, and probably feels new, exciting, etc. but she is going to hit the same milestone with him eventually, and start to realize it wasn't the dream she thought she had.
The big difference this time is that she's going to be divorced, and not have me or my financial support to fall back on. And, depending on how it goes with the court, she may lose a lot of access to her children before that time comes. No idea how that will impact her, but it's going to feel like a bottomless pit compared to how she had it before.
The other problem is that she has burned friendships like crazy through this process. I am reconnecting with people who used to be mutual friends, but that now despise WW. It seems to be a nasty pattern with her in the past few years, where she has major fallouts with friends, and then just writes them off. So while my social circle is expanding daily, WW is down to only a couple of what I would call true friends. She knows a lot of other people through current OM, but those are all his friends, and would likely not remain in contact if/when those two break it off. Really is going to be a sad, lonely path she has to tread.
Dwh,
It seems your WW behaviour is public knowledge and possibly gossip, as is my WH. You may wish to prepare vulnerables on the matter so the story is straight forward. This may include family members and your children.
Making huge affair busts isn't my thing, however lies and deception should never be supported, it's inauthentic for you. I have not hidden my WH behaviour from anyone, and will discuss it if questioned. I have challenged WH OW#largeno that I call the Fishwife. I have visited a POW and turned her into a casual friend CF.
His sister, brother , parents all know and WH doesn't care, he still blames W. Now i can hold my head up and I have no fear, it's public.
In your case I think it will emerge that your WW is very lost and her few female friends are likely to either only be solos or see her socially in women only groups.
V
V, I can only name one current female fried of WW that she met on her own, and that friend is fully aware of the sitch, and has been all along. I have met her and she seems nice enough, but has a major drinking problem herself, so not sure how trustworthy her advice would be. All of her other "friends" are through current OM. The people that we both know are for the most part fully aware of her history, and not because I told them, but because either they witnessed it for themselves or she told them.
Now I did provide some details to my immediate family, but mostly about current OM. They don't know all the dirty details of all these other OM in her past, and I have no intention of revealing it. Won't help anyone, and just further degrades my W, and ruins my chance of ANY kind of R with her in the future, even a friendship. WW has had a couple of female friends really distance themselves since she actually moved out, and I believe it's because although they were aware of what was going on, they were hoping she would try to work on our M. When that didn't happen, I think they lost respect for her.
I think that part of the issue is, and I'm only speculating here, but WW likely spread all kinds of spew about how terrible her M and H were, trying to justify her actions. But then people end up meeting me and realize that none of it jives with what they've heard. They put 2 and 2 together, and lose respect for WW, and end up feeling bad for me. I know for a fact this happened in at least a couple of cases, as I actually spoke to them.
At this point, WW has surrounded herself with people in the social circle of OM. I know that some of them are aware of the sitch, but suspect a lot of them prob have no idea that she's still legally married, with kids who live with dad. If the news got out, my guess is that several of them would lose respect and distance themselves as well. WW has even basically cut contact with her own family, and rarely speaks to them. She has mentioned on multiple occasions how she feels as if she is an orphan. I really don't think there is a way to help her until she bottoms out and decides to change her life in a meaningful way.
I will likely be filing for D within a matter of weeks, assuming I don't get served first, and maybe that will be a part of the reality that knocks WW out of her fantasy. In the mean time, I'm working on being a great father, and lots of GAL.
Dwh
The reason female friends desert is because they perceive WW as a predator,, and that may put their own R at risk or that of someone they care about, brothers etc.
It's self protection.
That's the reason cf stopped having My WH in her circle, she would not take the risk on it for her female friends.
V
Dwh
The reason female friends desert is because they perceive WW as a predator,, and that may put their own R at risk or that of someone they care about, brothers etc.
V
V, that makes a lot of sense, and I'll bet you're right. WW is attractive, and from what I heard last night, had become quite the flirt at a couple of local bars around town. If I were a woman with a husband/boyfriend, I certainly would not be wanting to spend time around someone like that.
Really struggling today. I actually felt a little relieved last night after making up my mind about D, but today have been lonelier than ever. Maybe I'm finally accepting it. Has been 4 days with absolutely no communication from WW at all, which is probably making it hard too. I hadn't even asked her to cut back, she suddenly doesn't seem interested at all. So ready for the pain to stop and feel normal.
Dwh,
Ok, let's talk lonely and alone. Alone is being on your own, but you can be fulfilled, trust me, you can.
Lonely is the emptiness inside that we attempt to fulfil with others, stuff, and useless activity.
So let's ask the question, why are you lonely? What is missing?
And WW isn't an answer because she can't fill the space, only you can. And love, companionship isn't allowed either because that's external too.
What can you do to stop being lonely?
This could be resolved otherwise you will go around in a loop, nothing but you can fill the void for you. No R can do it other than that which you have with you.
So where does lonely come from, how old is it?
If you want say not now V.
V
Dwh,
The pain...don't we all want it to go away. I broke down and cried twice this week. 4 days is good, but your going need to do it for longer. I watched a video today that really helped me. Look at my thread and u will see about my PMA I will find the video and let u know how to watch it. It is about an hour. It is actually a sales pitch for a stopping divorce program. However, it provides a lot of great information. It turned my day around for sure.
Dwh,
So where does lonely come from, how old is it?
If you want say not now V.
V
What you say makes sense V, but I can't really say where it comes from. I know I didn't feel like this at all until after BD. I was content with my life. Since then, I feel like this most of the time. I've found that praying and reading the bible helps, so been trying to spend more time with that.
Dwh,
The pain...don't we all want it to go away. I broke down and cried twice this week. 4 days is good, but your going need to do it for longer. I watched a video today that really helped me. Look at my thread and u will see about my PMA I will find the video and let u know how to watch it. It is about an hour. It is actually a sales pitch for a stopping divorce program. However, it provides a lot of great information. It turned my day around for sure.
Thanks Why. I'll check out the video. Also, as a quick update, WW stopped by unannounced today. Apparently, she needed to print something out and doesn't have access to a printer. I didn't mind, but the unexpected drop-by's get annoying. She hasn't done that for a while, but I may have to say something again. It only takes 10 seconds to fire off a TM and ask if it's OK to come over. I didn't pay her much attention, but can't say that I came across as cheery and upbeat either. Probably closer to disinterested and a little cold. I just couldn't drum up a PMA, given recent info about her. She only stayed around 5 min and was out the door. Said Hi to all the kids, but didn't even make eye contact with me, other than to say why she was there.
Then, she calls around 30 min later to confirm plans with kids tonight. Happens to mention she needs to adjust the schedule because she's starting a dart league Mon nights. Somehow I came across much more upbeat on the phone, so we talked around 5 minutes and I cut off the convo. And what drives me nuts about the whole thing is that after that phone call, my whole PMA shifted and now I actually feel pretty good. It's like a drug addict getting their hit after 4 days cold turkey. It's nice not feeling like poo again, but I know it won't last and by tomor I'll be back in the same boat. Ugh.
I will likely be filing for D within a matter of weeks, assuming I don't get served first, and maybe that will be a part of the reality that knocks WW out of her fantasy
To me the decision to file was because I was not willing to live in a open marriage and I had enough of the lies and cheating. I was not hoping to wake up WW. I made that decision for myself. Because I deserve better.
Me filing for D and H getting served got him out of the fog temporarily but he just went right back to being wayward again..even let me cancel the divorce while he was cheating on me..luckily my lawyer had a feeling us reconciling so soon was going to end bad so he restarted the process
I agree with you guys that filing needs to be done for me, not as some tactic to try and wake up WW. After thinking on it for a couple of days, I'm sort of back to where I was. It's rough when you get floored with more nasty info about your WW, almost like another BD, and I was reeling for a while. Talked to a good friend this morning who has known me and my W for years, and he suggested I stick to my guns. Don't help her, but don't file yet either. Make her do the dirty work if that's what she wants. But he also said that if she goes through with it, I'm better off w/o her, because she seems to be a train wreck right now and that would not be good for the kids or me.
So I think I'm back to the waiting game, at least for a little while. I will eventually have to file myself, and my personal limit is some time in the next 7 or 8 months. Then it would be another 6 months before it became final. I'm still undecided about whether I could take her back. I think MAYBE if I could see true, deep remorse and an honest commitment to work on herself, I might consider it. But it may never happen, so guess I'll cross that bridge if it ever comes.
For today, I'm actually not feeling too bad. I got a job offer yesterday late afternoon and start in 2 weeks, so that's a huge relief on the financial stress. I've been spending a couple of hours each night down at that local clubhouse for the organization I rejoined recently, and getting to know a lot of people. This afternoon, heading over to sister's house to help her with some yard work, and let the kids swim in her pool. Should be a good day overall.