Part 10
How on earth did it get to this stage!
Following up...
Hi NDY
Yes, it's a journey they have started, so, they have to finish it. I walked home. W didn't text or anything. When I got in, the kids were there to say hello - great!
W has stayed motionless on the setee reading her book. I asked if the viewers we had yesterday had given us feedback yet. W just replied with a firm 'no'. So being non pursuing has got her back to being angry again. I'm ready for the spewfest to come. I can see it boiling up in her.
The key is to survive this stage. I can see she desperately wants to start a fight again. She's brooding and angry. Actually, she also looks incredibly beautiful, but that's for another period in time.
Ok mate so here is a plan. You know it's coming so be prepared. Drink that extra strong STFU smoothie now. Remember if she starts to disrespect you walk away. Tell her calmly but firmly you won't be spoken to like that. You will probably be on eggshells all night to keep yourself busy. Be like Clint. Get that picture in your mind now.
Post later and let it know how it goes.
Hi NDY
These new homes come around, right?
I've just been whistling whilst running the kids bath. She's started to get stroppy with the kids, so I know it's coming.
Plan is to have a quick bath after the kids (one of W's complaints seems to be I spent too much time in bath) and then sit on the setee playing with the kids.
I don't want to appear rude, but I'm not going to start conversation with her. Wrong? Don't think so; I'm sure it's in sandi2's rules.
New homes?
So yea, be happy but prepare yourself for the spewfest. And as for convo's, yes it's in the rules.
But mate. She complained you spend too long in the bath? Now that's a classic.
Hi Huddy, I am at the stage where I am getting ready to drop the rope. However, I am still letting H actions get me every time. I need more STFU smoothies too.
NDY, You are right in that detachment is for us. 7 months since BD and I am only beginning to realise this. Actioning it and taking it onboard is another level.
I wish the lies would stop can't the WAS see that we know they are lying?
Part 10
How on earth did it get to this stage!
Following up...
Hi NDY
Yes, it's a journey they have started, so, they have to finish it. I walked home. W didn't text or anything. When I got in, the kids were there to say hello - great!
W has stayed motionless on the setee reading her book. I asked if the viewers we had yesterday had given us feedback yet. W just replied with a firm 'no'. So being non pursuing has got her back to being angry again. I'm ready for the spewfest to come. I can see it boiling up in her.
The key is to survive this stage. I can see she desperately wants to start a fight again. She's brooding and angry. Actually, she also looks incredibly beautiful, but that's for another period in time.
Huddy, at least she wants you to pursue. See that as a positive :-)
Also, her arguments with you are temperature checks!
Morning NDY/Smoothy
New home = new thread! This is number 10. I somehow thought It'd be over by now. Hey ho!
Bathtime. Yeah, it's a problem when your husband wants to look and smell good at the end of a long day at work. Sure, when I had a really long day and our son had been up during the night with his night terrors, I would nod off. I was exhausted and my W had a chance during the day for a nap. I just think any excuse to blame me for something.
So, I had a really quick bath last night and when I came down, you could see W wanted to fight, but I played with the kids and in the end she went to have her bath. We never said a word more to each other all night.
I have some intel. My BIL was dumped by his girlfriend, as she was having a MLC and she then got back with him, had a baby, and then dumped him again. His girlfriend then claimed depression. At the time, my W was angry etc., but has now started talking to her on the phone. It's bizarre, she couldn't stand her, now, I guess because she agrees with W's position, she's her best pal.
Wanting to be pursued? I don't know if she does or not. The spew that came out in the last two days was particularly hurtful.
Onwards.
They seek the company of those that agree with them. It's a common trait.
True bud. Something has obviously gone off at her parents. She came back a day early; furious conversation with her father on the phone and now talking to a woman she really disliked. Probably got some medicine she didn't like and has taken to talking to anybody who will support her 'position'.
No mind reading. What went on at command central stays at command central. If something did happen and it works for you or against you you will soon find out.
At least you got through last night without a spewfest.
Yeah. Was kinda ready for it. Was going to test out my new willpower. I guess another opportunity will present itself sooner rather than late!
It will, of that I can guarantee.
So, call from W this afternoon. 'My bank card has been declined. What have you done to the bank account?' (note the immediate blame game). Me 'Nothing. I will check it out'. W 'Yeah, you sort it out'. I ended conversation.
Checking out bank account, and W appears to have spent a bit more than she thought whilst she was away. I walked home and asked her whilst we were still together, for her to watch what she spends from the joint account. Apologises spilling from her followed by her trying to list what she spent and where. I decline her offer of an explanation (that would be controlling) and she says she will be very careful, again apologising.
So, I think that was handled pretty well, showing detachment and control of emotions of what could be a flashpoint.
Well played. But I'd add a couple of things.
I also get the immediate 'it's your fault' whenever something isn't quite right. But instead of 'I'll sort it' I adjust to 'I can't help/explain that' because it has nothing to do with me. Happened a couple of times when we were still living together. Quite something when you actually get to the source of the issue but it'll be forgotten by tomorrow.
I'd also hold back on the looking into things. She's a big girl and she wants to be on her own. Away from you so what happens when you separate? Who's going to look into her card being declined then? Remember. You aren't her husband any more. Let her sort her own sh!t out. And if it turns into a spewfest just put your spewfest jacket on. See starsky for special offers.
Noted. First try after this weekends dramafest. Starksy doing special offers on spewjackets? Better get an order in!
It's a tough one but you need to do it. When I first came home man, the spew was unreal. I just let it slide. Inside I was cut up but outside I was cool. WW hated every minute of it. Not my problem was my attitude. The only things I did do was fix a couple of things that affected the lot of us(heating, electricity in the garden but) but other than than she was on her own. Quite something to watch when a WW starts to lose control of the situation.
Morning NDY
Mini spewfest last night. Apparently, It's me who has been complacent about money whilst W was away that meant she overspent. Just validated and she went off to the bath. I think she is finally realising, again, that I'm not running anymore and she's getting angrier.
Yea, I've seen similar many a time. They have a different perspective on the world from the rest of us. At least you didn't get into a fight. Good for you.
It's pretty much the same as everything else that's wrong in the world. It'll be your fault. This will only change when she's standing on her own two feet. Cast your mind back to when my WW wanted me to rent a flat. I presented every argument against that but she didn't care what I had to say. Now she's discovering everything I said was true but she has to learn this on her own. I'm not there to support her anymore.
I'll ask on how it's going on your own thread.
Thanks for support. I was quite pleased with myself. Don't want to come over as smug though.
Just checking in. Still battling I see. Good luck mate. I'm perched for a ring side seat. Watch my W blow up and stand clear. It's never really over, but it sure looks that way. Be back when I can
Morning all
When bathing the kids last night, I realised that we needed some more toilet rolls and milk. So, had my bath, got dressed and walked to the local shops (about 20 minutes each way - no way I'm asking to use the car). Bought what I needed and returned.
I didn't tell W I was going, so when I got back (she was looking for toilet rolls!)she was in a foul mood. She took the rolls off me and marched upstairs. I casually said 'I think the words we're looking for is Thank You' and she gave me such a dirty look. Upshot - she was as mad as hell that I'd gone out and not told her.
Fifteen minutes later and she's casually asking me what I'd like to watch on TV. Hmmm...
So, review of the week. I think I've made a ball$ up. I think I over reacted to her behaviour on her return from her parents and she went from crying to nasty in a few minutes. I took her recent mild manner and signs of recovery too enthusiastically and I think we have regressed by a few weeks. Need to get more confidence and detach. This I have started by not asking for lifts in car etc. and not buying her the things she has been taking for granted like paper etc.
Today, I am going to shave my beard off. I only grew it when we got together, because my W wanted me to. I don't think it's an act of defiance, more a case of if she really doesn't want me, it won't matter to her. It's also gone quite grey with the recent stress and strains of the current situation, so looks a bit naff, in my opinion!
Hi Mate
If you want to shave off your beard for you then go ahead. Shake it up a bit. It's your face.
As for the W's moods. Yea, I got similar nonsense when she was still at home. Spewing about everything because it's all my fault (one time she spewed about me getting washing tablets, even though we hadn't ran out) then 10 minutes later all watching TV together. Mental I tells ya. Anyway don't let her mood affect you. You're Clint, remember?
Clint has shaved! Actually, it's taken about ten years off me. I think that's a 180. W hasn't reacted, but it takes her a couple of days to let her guts spill, but she is back in a foul mood, especially with the kids. I've deflected that as much as I can.
W has slumped into the setee (the one she couldn't care less about) and has nodded off. We're all off together for the next four days, so my aim is to get through the weekend without any kind of flare up, or, if she tries to bait me, not fight back.
Mate. If I have one bit of advice. Get out of there for a bit. Try to get away from her during this time off. If you're around her all the time she going to build up more and more resentment. Are you able to do that?
Congrats on the beard. Good show.
Thanks NDY. I think W is at work tomorrow. You know what the weather is like here. I was planning on taking the kids to the park for a bit, but it's cold, even for jolly old Scotland. See how it picks up.
I did have a nightmare last night. In it, I was begging and pleading with W to stay. When I woke up, I had to convince myself that I hadn't actually done it!
Kind of reflective at the moment. W does look beautiful, but I have been thinking about the stuff she has said (mainly in odd chunks) that has been building up in her. Here they are:
1) She doesn't love/fancy/attracted to me anymore. OK, so I have lost three stone in weight and have not put any back on. Exercising every day - I look physically better. My confidence is coming back, so, as sandi2 says, this should be a stepping stone.
2) I spend too much time in the bath/reading/on computer. OK, I have now made it my policy to be out of the bath within 20 minutes. I go on computer whilst running bath and with kids. Reading is something I can't see a problem with.
3) We never talked/you never appreciated me. OK, WAS mind here, when I wanted to talk W was busy watching soaps or reading newspaper. As for appreciation, never a day went by when I didn't tell her how beautiful she looked and that I loved her. Don't know how to top that one.
4) We have no money and don't do anything exciting. OK, we have three children, I'm the only one in full time work and I do what I can. It's very difficult to 'do things' with a disabled child, but, again, I do whatever I can.
Feel I'm doing my best to address all the issues W has mentioned. If she goes, then I think I will be in a better place than 18 weeks ago and as of this time, she hasn't carried out any of her threats.
Mate. When I read that list I think nothing but pure script.
1 is just her disrespect. You could be Jason bloody Stratham and she would still feel the same.
2 is a symptom of something deeper. My WW and I stopped communicating but at the time I didn't realise she was involved with OM. Prior to him we talked all the time.
3 same as 2 IMO.
4 crikey. My WW and I used to go out, holidays etc but it started to dry up. Not because of money but just because of circumstances. A bit like you but that's not the point. It's really about them yearning for something that's missing in their lives.
As for doing something this weekend. Why not drive across to the safari park? It'll be a good day out for the kids and you don't need to get out of the car. I'm assuming the car belongs to both of you?
Car is in W's name. W has made a point of saying that if I don't pay for car, post split, I can't use it. Bizarre. I'll see how weather fairs up.
Yes, I think she feels she's 'missing something', but I don't know what, and I don't think she does either. Throwing everything away to find that 'something' is a symptom of MLC. I notice communication with command central has all but dried up. I wonder what went off?
You shouldn't care at this point. That's for her to worry about.
They are all missing something and somehow we contributed to that. That's why we're sitting here spinning. No clue. But that's why we work on ourselves. We do this to save us. Not the M. Sure, we all agree it's sh!t but there you go.
I tell you this. Me being away from her in my own house seeing my S9 has been a blessing. No stress. I can walk tall. I've let the rope go. And it feels good.
Feel I'd be OK on my own. Don't want to, but feeling OK if it goes down. Didn't feel like that when I first came here.
No, you don't do you. But you will be. Perfectly fine. I think it's because we're are out of the panic/fear stage. My WW is trying it right now as you seen on my thread. Meh. Bring it on girlfriend. She isn't an interest to me right now. Not interested in what she does or with who. Not my problem. As long as my son is well looked after that's all I'm interested in.
And I believe this is where the real fun starts. From what I've seen about here my journey is about to get a lot tougher. So what, I'm up for the challenge.
Morning all
Back to weird stage, again. No mindreading but W has changed her purse and in to that she has placed a picture of us as a couple. W has also taken the business card off the fridge for her L (I think it was placed there to 'scare' me) and put it in her stuff for work. I know she had scheduled another appointment for next Friday, so I don't know what's going on. Don't care either as I'm not doing anything her L says.
At the moment W has gone to work, but she has spent most of this morning just staring out of the window.
Week 19
Bit blue this morning. Had a nightmare last night about W. I think in my dreams, I am going through all the pain, whilst outwardly showing no problems as all.
I got up with kids this morning and W appeared an hour later. She looks amazing. I don't know if she's putting all this effort in to taunt me. In one of her rants, she said she didn't 'fancy me' anymore. So why make all the effort to look so good in front of me? Sunday morning used to be pj's until about 11/12 then jeans/loose top for W. Now she's wearing skinny jeans and tight tops.
In another of her rants, last weekend, she said 'why are you acting as if nothing is wrong?'. Well, what do you want me to do? Cry and snivel me way around every day? Shout and scream at her, as if she's the devil? The WAS mindset is quite, quite odd.
W got a few text messages yesterday afternoon. Don't know who from, but they were on 'what's app' (this I know because of the ringtone it makes) and I know the only people who communicate with her on that are her mum and her brother who lives in Dubai. She grunted a couple of times when receiving a text. Again, no snooping or mindreading, but something is a miss. L card is back on fridge.
So, off we go again for another week of fun on the escalator. The key is to survive and prosper.
Why did she come down looking so good? If I were to hazard a guess I'd say she's mixing it up the same way you did. She still wants to be desirable. All women do. So you mix it up with shaving your beard she appears looking smoking. All part of the dance.
Agreed, she wants to be desireable. In DB though, saying that W looks good would be pursuing. So, thinking it through, if I say she looks good, or look at her, she know I'm still pursuing and she'll continue to misbehave. By not saying anything, or looking over her, W will be unsure if I have 'moved on'.
I picked option 2, and have said virtually nothing to her all day. In fact, since I took the beard off, W has stopped reading her books etc. and has spent more time in the room with me. Maybe, just maybe, she's having a think.
Can I make a suggestion mate? Send out a bat signal for Georgia Bulldog. He's kinda direct and I like the cut of his jib. He's on Defacto's thread a lot so perhaps start there? I think you may need to cut through the cr@p here and GB is the man for this. Ok, so you don't have an A to deal with but I think GB can help you.
Huddy, good wishes with that. I don't know if it means anything. h to,d me today I look nice but I feel H is being nice to keep the peace.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, not feeling it at the moment.
Hello Huddy,
Thanks for the post in my thread. I'll catch up on your sitch later today.
Bob
So, off we go again for another week of fun on the escalator. The key is to survive and prosper.
Huddy,
I caught up on your situation and I feel you are giving it your best. I'm not sure I would make too much of your W's recent behavior. You wrote the other day that she was "staring out the window." It's possible she is starting to realize the consquences of her actions but, for your own sake, no expectations!!
I liked NDY's suggestion. Send out a bat signal for
Georgia Bulldog.
You're going to make it thru this, mate. We have your back.
Hang in there.
Bob
OK, not sure what you can bring to the party but bat signal for Georgia Bulldog!
Today, W has asked if we can consolidate a credit card in to her name. Don't know why, but it will save interest. It just seems bizarre. When my W left her first H, she cut him off at the knees and that was it. He saw my SD every weekend, but that was it. She left him with the house to pay, everything. OK, he wasn't a very nice person, but when she walked, she went, never to return. I just don't see that. She came back from her parents; wants to talk about finance etc., it just doesn't make sense. Contact from her sister has dried up. It use to be hourly at the start, so again, I don't know what's going on.
Time will tell. No psychic guessing.......
I like a good horoscope. Johnathan Cainer in the UK is pretty good. OK, it could just be something that comforts me, but in times of great pain, I like a read. It's my little treat.
He suggests that someone who has taken so much from me soon will 'give some back'. I know they're vague, but, boy does this ring true!
Not that I'm telling everybody to start believing their horoscope, but our washing machine went boom today. Obviously, being a family of five, we need a new one. W asks 'who's paying for it', well 'both of us'. She follows up with 'because if I get a house with the kids, I'm gonna need a washing machine'! Yes Johnathan, she's really giving back!
Ha ha. That is funny. Perhaps Jonathan meant that PPI claim you are just about to get a call about in 3...2...1...
Huddy,
Jonathan Cainer is wicked GOOD! Pretty darn accurate in his readings. On point. Damn.
I don't think she realises that it'll go into any settlement when the house is sold. I was OK though. Didn't make a performance. So, one minute she wants to consolidate debts, the next she's on her toes with the new washer.
WAW's really do defy logic.
PPI - yes, there is a number from Liverpool with an 0151 number which is really annoying at the moment. I just don't answer.
A workmate was asking about my sitch this morning. He displayed exasperation that this was still continuing. He had told his W about me and she said I was 'a saint' for putting up with it.
Well, I'm not ready for sainthood yet, but I suppose the reason I keep going is for love. I wish my W would wake up from this terrible dream!
We all wish that mate but we also know that won't happen. Not in the way we hope. Stick with the course. You'll be fine.
Huddy, so true. They can not hear the voice of reason anymore. OW1 and OW2 have some of the traits that H always said he disliked.
All my traits he said he fell enough with is now the reason he wants a D. I've my independence, confidence, ability to get things done etc .
Hi Wonka
Yeah, Johnathan is good. In his forecast for my sign, for the year, it said I would experience a bad year, with my love focus being really bad from March to September. Well, he wasn't far out with the start (a week), I hope he really can read the runes!
Hi NDY/Smoothy
I'm no adonis. But today is the first day back at work after 'beardoff' and I'm surprised how many people have commented on how young I look and since I lost the weight, how good I look. It's great to get compliments as it helps with my PMA and confidence. I'm also a bit reluctant to take it in as a lot of people know what my problem is at work, and they might just be being kind. The one person I want to say that however......you know the rest!
Walked home and W immediately came to me to ask what I had done with two letters of hers (notice the blame game, again), so in my most pleasant manner, I told her I didn't know. Notice on the calendar she has penciled in a L appointment for next Monday. She's never done that before, so I guess that's to try and put the wind up me. Won't work.
W is agitated with the kids again. I know she's tired, but what does she think she's going to do when I'm not here to share the burden?
Hi Wonka
Yeah, Johnathan is good. In his forecast for my sign, for the year, it said I would experience a bad year, with my love focus being really bad from March to September. Well, he wasn't far out with the start (a week), I hope he really can read the runes!
Hi NDY/Smoothy
I'm no adonis. But today is the first day back at work after 'beardoff' and I'm surprised how many people have commented on how young I look and since I lost the weight, how good I look. It's great to get compliments as it helps with my PMA and confidence. I'm also a bit reluctant to take it in as a lot of people know what my problem is at work, and they might just be being kind. The one person I want to say that however......you know the rest!
Walked home and W immediately came to me to ask what I had done with two letters of hers (notice the blame game, again), so in my most pleasant manner, I told her I didn't know. Notice on the calendar she has penciled in a L appointment for next Monday. She's never done that before, so I guess that's to try and put the wind up me. Won't work.
W is agitated with the kids again. I know she's tired, but what does she think she's going to do when I'm not here to share the burden?
Keep seeing this all over the boards. They have to figure that bit out on their own. We on the other hand just need to reach for a fresh smoothie.
Hi NDY
Smoothy in hand! New washing machine has been delivered, so that'll be nice to plumb in when I get home. I need my clothes washing, so I'll have to do it. W called to say it was here. OK convo, nothing earth shattering. She ended with a 'see you later'. Haven't heard that for months. It used to be followed with us both telling each other we loved each other. That bit wasn't forthcoming!
Baby steps. Building on the small positives eventually adds up apparently.
Small steps. I think Neil Armstrong would struggle to come up with something appropriate.
Washing machine in and plumbed (transportation bolts - why so long and difficult to remove?). Did I get hearty praise? I will leave that to answer yourself, dear viewer!
Quick journal
W came down from her bath last night and started mumbling to SD. Curious.
Wonka
I didn't know you were a WAS with MLC. That gives me an interesting viewpoint from you.
Do you suspect MLC? I think you mentioned this before but I can't recall. Apologies if you've already seen this but I thought this was interesting. It's written by a man but I believe the parallels are there:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2292922#Post2292922
hey Hudster,
i thought MLC was where we started with you WAW. There is still no sign of OM? So what's left? I am so confused! WTF is her problem??? she just doesn't want to be M to you anymore. Why? Can't we address this? She's 50 for [censored] sake - there must be some serious [censored] going in her head to throw everything away for what must seem to her a brighter future. What does she think this brighter future will look like? Is it something she could have in he life now, in the M.
sorry - just crazy man. I know you live with this everyday but how long can she float like this?
forgive me if i'm outta line here, and much wiser advice is welcomed to contradict me, but WRT to DR what is working here? is it time to change your strategy? Boot her out? stop taking care of her?
There is still no sign of OM? So what's left? I am so confused! WTF is her problem??? she just doesn't want to be M to you anymore. Why? Can't we address this? She's 50 for [censored] sake - there must be some serious [censored] going in her head to throw everything away for what must seem to her a brighter future. What does she think this brighter future will look like? Is it something she could have in he life now, in the M.
And you know this - How?
My ex never had an affair, except maybe with the hero of a romance novel.
Menopausal - depression.
You didnt cause it and can not fix it.
so basically back where we started then - MLC of some sort. so patience is all that can be done? sounds reasonable, but damned hard slog for Huddy.
so basically back where we started then - MLC of some sort. so patience is all that can be done? sounds reasonable, but damned hard slog for Huddy.
I couldn't agree more. Living like that must be difficult. Really difficult.
Hi Folks
I don't believe she has OM. She started menopause in May 2014 and at first she was wanting to ML every minute that she saw me. Then, to help her periods, she had some medication. She turned a bit weird and didn't show any affection for a couple of weeks. W also got moody, so I threw the meds away. Within a couple of weeks, she was back to her old self.
In September, W had a coil fitted. This basically controls periods until the menopause is over. It also gives her a shot of HRT in it as well (don't ask me....). W became a bit less affectionate in March, about three weeks prior to BD.
My SD overheard her talking to her mother, exclaiming that now she was 50, she thought she had missed out on stuff etc. and wanted to do things on her own with the kids. Then followed the don't fancy/love/feel attracted to you etc. spew and, well, you know the rest.
So, this has been going on now for 19 weeks, and I apart from some small improvements, W seems determined to go. To what, I'm not sure, but as you will find in my threads, I have discussed how W will have difficulty getting housing etc. as well as having no real income.
Yes, it's hard. There have been times I just want to tell her to 'go away'; in fact I have done so, but, being a WAS, she knows that I don't want her to go, so she keeps going. The house is up for sale and that is when make your mind up time will kick in. I have investigated properties etc. and I know I'll be OK.
At the moment W has stopped mentioning running back to her parents and the traffic from SIL/MIL has gone down markedly. The most annoying aspect now is that I don't really know what W has told her family, but I guarantee it'll be tosh.
Where do we go from here? Well, if we split, then so be it. I am lighter, healthier and in a much better frame of mind than in April, so my confidence is really starting to come back. I don't really communicate with W unless she brings up communication or if it's about the kids; a kind of in-house dark I suppose. The kids don't know what's going on either, but W doesn't seem to mind.
My workmates tell me I'm a saint and that I have balls of steel to cope, but that's what you do for love right? You don't give up at the first bump in the road, you keep trying. W won't talk about the problem, so that's it really.
thanks for recapping Huddy
. Balls of steel alright. I take my hat off to ya mate. I think the "not knowing" part was one of the hardest for me. "Why is she doing this?". But then knowing and having it shoved down your throat aint much fun either.
hey, your summary makes it sound like clear cut MLC.she even said exactly that (SD conversation). She really needs to be pushed to IC by a friend. I know she is turning to those who support this WAW behaviour and thats a big shame. It is a pity she isn't in full time work. In most cases the employer would do this pushing maybe. Simply from a "help you with the stress perspective." Getting her talking to someone sane would be a great first step.
can we trick her into talking to someone? on her own, not MC. even her L? Although this would be strictly seen as desperate pursual in DB terms, but I think commandment #1 over rules this on this occasion - do what works! He might be a lawyer/scumbag but really he is a person and you are not trying to sway anything legally, better talk to your L first. what about ANY of her friends? Is it inconceivable that you talk to MIL, SIL. We dont want this to be interpreted poorly by your W and set you back
i am just frustrated reading "pt 10" and still you are nowhere really. this may just be the long haul as Cadet would surely attest to. it is such a shame, for all of us really, that this relatively short period of insanity breaks such havoc. of course every time I think this I have to remind myself that this may not be short term insanity at all. in fact in my case I dont believe it is.
"thats what love is right?"- I thought so mate. actually I still do, 100%. the cold hard reality is that my W clearly didn't love me.
Morning Py
L is a bloodsucker who is on Legal Aid. Not in her interest to get W to go to MC. We had one session together and W hated every minute of it. SIL/MIL have their own agendas, so no help there either. On my own really. As I say, the crunch will come when the house is sold and then if she goes, then I can think to myself that I did the best I could to save the M.
Hi Huddy, sometimes I wish that H was going through a MLC so I know where his behaviour is coming from. How can we know and be sure this is the case?
H has talked about 'finding himself, being on his own too feet, someone new for us in the second half of our lives' is this MLC?
He has been texting OWs for a while now so a WS with MLC. I really don't know which is easier to deal with and turn around. WAS? Or WS? Or MLC?
It's difficult to tell. At the start, I challenged her about MLC, but, of course, W denied this was happening. I asked about OM, but to be honest, W doesn't really have that many opportunities to be out with anyone and she no longer has her phone as an extension of her body. It is in plain sight and yesterday was open on the kitchen side and left there all the time I was home.
So, two scenarios; one - she really has just decided she no longer wants me and she's done or, two - MLC and I don't know how it'll end.
Huddy, you might be interested to have a look at Ha Who's posts on the MLC part of the forum. She's younger than your W, but she went through a phase of pretty much hating her H and believes his own MLC has followed on from this. There was no OP in her sitch and her H stood by her - though he felt pretty unloved during the whole period..
Her sitch just popped into my head when reading your post above.
Thanks Toots, will have a look.
W's car in for a service today. Tears last night that she didn't know what to do, so, against my better mindset, I agreed to take it. My reward? Well, I lent over to close the curtains, as the sun was streaming on to the new setee, over her face. I got 'I can do that', to which I replied 'it's OK, I'm here anyway', followed by 'don't I know it' from W. I snapped back 'you won't have to put up with it for long' to which W replied 'hopefully'. Decided to have a STFU smoothy and walk away. No thanks, nothing. Shouldn't have expected anything else really and I had planned to get her do it on her own, but my 'nice guy' side kicked in. What a dummy!
Huddy,
Yep, I am a reformed former MLCer. Not a fun journey for me...that's for sure.
Hi Wonka
Yeah, this isn't the best ride I've ever had!
Do you see any similarities in my W to your situation?
W been to work today. Took kids to a local gala. They had fun, but my D got stroppy towards the end and had a hissy fit on the way home (well, she is only 5). Unfortunately, this coincided with W returning. Start of the blame game. 'What have you done', 'why is Tesco sat outside. I bet you got the time wrong'. Get the picture? So, W didn't want to hear my answers (D got stroppy because we had to come home; Tesco are early with the groceries - I've already spoken to the guy) so had a gulp on that STFU smoothy and hung the washing out instead!
I wish I could break her out of this. Last night, we were watching a soap opera called 'Emmerdale'. One of the main characters was being killed off and she appeared as a 'ghost' to talk to her grieving husband. At one point, he looks at his 'wife' and says 'is this it then', as she was about to go. That's when I caught my W looking at me and gulping, with really sad eyes. I could tell she was trying to think of us (OK, mindreading), but why doesn't she just crack.
Week 20
Getting a bit tired of all this, really. I don't know how to shift this forward. In house separation is hard as both of us aren't separate at all. Neither of us can afford to go anywhere, although W has the option of her parents, she has used that and returned.
It's our wedding anniversary in 9 days time. I am guessing that we won't be celebrating. So, I just carry on the never ending ritual of validating the spew, keeping the kids happy and keeping myself busy. I have resigned myself to what I am going to do when the house sells and W breaks away. I know where I'm going, costs etc. I don't want to, but I am organised, so that won't be too much hassle. W has made no preparation and doesn't appear to be inclined to, apart from another trip to the L tomorrow.
So, just journaling really. Nothing much to say. It's a bit of a blue day again. This really has to stop soon.
Hey huddy I feel for you my wedding anniversary is on the 22nd August so pretty much in the same situation I don't think we will be doing anything to celebrate
Take care my friend
Ghost
W off to the L today. Her phone hasn't been touched all weekend and she has only turned it on this morning. No calls from SIL/MIL etc.
Last night, although I didn't let on, I noticed her doing that 'sneeky peek' thing whilst I was cuddling my S. You can see she's conflicted. I guess the L will put a stop to that today!
W now has all four of the 'Shades of Grey' books and is re-reading them, constantly. I've heard it's 'mummy porn' so I wonder if I should read them to see if she is expecting some kind of fantasy to come out of the woodwork, or, she maybe wants to live that fantasy. Not my concern at the moment.
W came back from the L's pretty sharpish. From leaving the house, to getting back in was less than 1h20. In that time, she had to travel there (15m), go to bank (10m), walk to L (5m) then 20m back to house, leaving less than 30m with L. I suppose I'll find out in the next couple of days!
Huddy,
It seems you situation if very similar to mine. Only we have 3 children together. We are in the same house but different rooms for about 5 months. She took her ring off the same day she moved into the spare room. I have taken mine off and then put it back on several times over the past 5 months. I have decided to put on and leave on until the very end, if that comes.
My W is constantly on the phone with her sister. Her sister has called me and said that she wants our marriage to work out, but I have my doubts.
Living in the same house together presents a great deal of challenges. We eat dinner together with the children but our only conversations for the last week have been about money or the kids. In the past I have done all the wrong things such as beg and plead. This time I have made my mind up that I will follow the 37 rules as close as my situation allows.
You are not alone. Hang in there. I hear that it gets better in time but I have not reached that time yet.
Hey tkdmme
Yep, sound very similar. I never hear her say anything to her sister as I have been following the rules and snooping is a no no.
Compared to some weeks, this isn't the worst. Yes, there are really bad weeks, but at least I am now prepared for whatever comes my way. I haven't begged for months. Don't get me wrong, some days I wonder if I am doing the right thing with DB. But there are odd glimpses of light and I have my own self respect to think of!
Hi Huddy, I have only lived with H for the past 7 weeks and it is hard hard work. I hate to think how difficult it must be for you.
(((Huddy)))
Hi Smoothy
Difficult, yes, but I have my kids to think about as well. My workmates tell me I should just walk away, but that's not the point. I am fighting, just not begging and being needy and I'm prepared if W does finally go safe in the knowledge that I did everything I could do to save the M.
SD has started asking if I have been looking for flats (apartments) or houses. Unusual question from her. When I asked why, SD said 'oh, well it's good to know what's out there'. I spy a fishing trip on behalf of W so respond with 'why? Has mum'. No response.
W has brown/curly/wavy hair. It's pretty cool, however, she knows how much it turns me on when she has straight hair (she had this at our wedding). Blow me, I walk in the door and she has straightened it. It looks lovely. I, however, have to act as if I don't notice. Non persual. I can't tell her.
Quick journalling
Nothing going on today. SD has got some new work experience with the court service and is awaiting an intake to college in September.
Got some good vibes off some workmates in a different part of the company today when I went for a visit. They said I looked 'fresh' and 'young' now I'm beardless. Well, if that doesn't make you feel good, nothing will.
W's hair looks excellent. Resisted telling her. Caught her looking at me again last night. No expectations.
Caught W giving me a once over last night. Funny, thought she didn't 'fancy'me anymore.
Today, we needed to get the kids some new shoes for school. W has dressed to the nines. She has her tightest jeans on, wearing high heels and is wearing the very expensive dress coat I bought her in January. Now, here in lies the problem. All this, coupled with the hair straightening, W knows turns me on. So, this could be one of those tricks that WAS's pull to get you to make some statement, knowing they can crush you back down and start the dance all over again. There again, it could be a signal for me to pull up and try again.
Decided to play cool and say nothing. She hasn't worn high heels, for me, for about 8 years and I always used to tell her how good she looks in them. W spent all day yesterday with her friend and their kids. W spend an hour on the phone with her sister on Wednesday night. Something is going on. I, however, have to act as if nothing is bothering me; I'm not noticing to entice her out and see what she does next.
OK, open question for everybody. My W is very stubborn. She has real difficulty in saying 'sorry' or backing down. So, she is obviously doing everything to make her appearance 'turn me on'. So, is this a way of asking me to return? My gut says that she has to actually say something. My heart says she looks fantastic, I want her. My DB head says, it's a trick, ignore.
So, how do you get a WAS who has problems admitting errors to force them out?
Pretty sure the rule is "do what works". If you notice changes, why do something different?
'she is obviously doing everything to make her appearance turn me on'
Huddy, I wouldn't focus too much on what she's doing with her appearance, or presume that you are the intended focus of her efforts. I'm not saying that to be mean in any way. But I think it could be just as likely that she is trying to reclaim aspects of her former self. That is - the pre-married me, who used to straighten her hair and feel more attractive, wear heels. I want to be her again. I certainly wouldn't change your approach as a result of it.
I agree with Azzork. Why change something if it appears to be working? Believe me that so many LBS's think their WAW is so stubborn they will never turn even if they realise they want you. Truly they will and you will know for sure if that happens. I think if or when it does happen the signs are more likely to be during interactions with you. Sharing a smile, having a little joke, showing more warmth, touch gestures and so on.
So, I would shelve this thought process you are having for now. Merely observe and note things and stay on your course. Be warm and pleasant with your W as well as busy and focusing elsewhere.
Best of luck with things :-)
Thanks. Staying on course. No new charts required!
Week 21
So, quick review of this weeks 'fun'.
W went to her L's on Monday. I'm still awaiting the outcome of that. W has made changes to her appearance and dress style. Noticeably, these are things that my W knows 'turn me on' and I find very attractive about her. I've noticed her looking at me a few times this week.
So, what does all this add up to? There is still no warmth, sense of fun or real conversation. W has made contact with one of her female friends that suffered something similar at the start of the year and they spent all day together. I suppose the best way of putting it is that W is looking over her defences to see if it's safe to come out yet and play.
It's our anniversary on Tuesday. 15 years. We used to joke that you'd get longer for murder. I have no plans to send a card or text to W, or buy any gifts. I feel this is important, for me anyway, to show that I am detaching. It's not that I don't want to. I want to be with my wife celebrating our union, but W has to commit back to the M and I don't see that right now.
21 weeks is a long time. But, in those weeks, the 'gift' that Cadet tells us we receive from out WAS, the time we have been separated, even in the same house, I believe I have shown W how good I am as a father, a man and a husband. We're still in the same house; W has been away, but she returned. If she wanted, she could have gone and not come back. So, we're still here, and I'm still fighting for a M that I feel has worth and enjoyment still in it, but W has to see the same things.
Just a thought Sotto, my W has been married before. When she was 30, she had a mini MLC. She admitted to me when we first got together, she had a hard time. She was unhappy with her then H, so left. She went that day and never went back, so I suppose, I'm winning at the moment!
She told me as she approached 31, she got better and felt OK again. She didn't want to return to XH, and he did the pursuing thing; in fact, he was still going for her when we got together, three and a bit years later. In order to warn him off, she put on a lot of weight, at the start, to dissuade him, only losing it about a year before we got together. So, I suppose I'm winning again, as she has lost weight and is now wearing things/doing things that she knows make me feel highly attracted to her.
Just thinking things through!
Interesting Huddy - I guess I was just trying to put forward the view that this may be more about her than it is about you and your M. You seem to be trying to offer an argument that it is more about you. But I think it is best to presume nothing at all. It is possible that it may be about you, and possible that it isn't.
I guess it doesn't really matter, because if she is changing her mind about the M, she will tell you at some point for sure! I would keep on as you are until or unless that happens my friend.
Hi Sotto
Yes, of course I'm looking for signs, but I am keeping on my course. No turning back now!
Tomorrow is our anniversary. Hmmm....bummer. Nothing planned, it's up to W now.
Came home from work tonight, and for the first time in months, W tried to smile at me when I walked in. Not a beaming, ear to ear smile, but that kind of sort of sad, feeling sorry for yourself one. I bowed my head slightly to acknowledge I had seen this.
Gonna be a difficult 36 hours, but hey, it's been worse!
Hey Huddy, long time no see! yep - its been worse and you've come out the other side, shining. you can do it again I have no doubt. happy Anniversary!
Hi Py
I've been checking in on you, but nothing to add to your PMA!
Yeah, Anniversary today. I know W knows as it's marked on the calendar. Will anything amazing happen? No, I don't think so.
Got in from work. W has dressed up in a lovely top and her skinny jeans. Hair done as well. W has made a meal. Nothing fancy (Pasta Bake), but this is the first time in months I haven't had to make my own meal when I've done for the day. It was good, so thanked her for her efforts. No real warmth though in her response.
Went upstairs to run the kids bath. Her mobile phone has been left on my bed, open. Notice she has two missed calls and messages from her Mum. Obviously, I haven't snooped. Why was she on the bed (noticed indentations in bedding)?
So, bat signal to Wonka, cadet, sandi2. My initial thoughts are just to carry on what I'm doing. Just wondering if I'm missing a signal though? I've been in this position before, tried to reach out and got kicked in the teeth. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Just wondering if I'm missing a signal though? I've been in this position before, tried to reach out and got kicked in the teeth.
Im no vet, but I think you answered your own question.
You know doing NOTHING is really doing something.
I think you are on the right track.
I should have added when in doubt best to do NOTHING.
Yeah, thought so! No harm in double checking.
Yep. Inaction is sometimes action. DBers...especially newbies...tend to forget this gem.
Looking good Huddy! The fact that she even dressed up implies recognise it as an occasion at least. Also missed calls from MIL - bonus, on your bed?-another bonus.
Thanks for your input. Just needed a bit or reassurance I wasn't missing something. Keeping on the path.
No real movement. W starting to look sad. Her stubbornness will prevent her from doing anything until she really has to.
Hi Huddy, best to keep your focus off her as much as you can. A watched pot never boils remember? Are you still doing some nice stuff for yourself and have some good GAL going on my friend?
What were your original goals for you, and how are you progressing with these? Your above statement sounds a little like you are closely watching your W for 'signs' and also mindreading, neither of which will help you IMHO.
Remember that things usually take a long time, and that time is valuable for us to make much needed changes in ourselves. Try and keep the focus on that and not on your W. I know it's hard - I think in-house S's are hardest of all actually, so I do commend you.
Take care. S x
Hi Sotto
I think I have achieved all my goals which were:
Lose weight;
Exercise more;
Spend more time with kids;
Not ask for/expect help from W;
Regain my confidence.
The last was the most challenging. The fact that so many people have commented on the fact I now look/act 'fresher' and back to my old self confirms this to me. Three stone lighter and walking four/five miles per day is good and giving me time to think. I make the kids my focus when I get home/at weekends and we now spend more time at park etc. As for GAL, I am re-engaged in my hobbies and have been out and about, when practicable.
Yes, I'm W watching now. It is obvious to me that as my confidence has returned, W has retrenched in to a 'sad' kind of look. Last night I got home, was bubbly and confident, went in to the living room and said a general 'hiya' to everybody in the room. I got hugs and kisses from kids. W gulped and looked at me with really sad eyes. Difficult to say, but not like she has been with her 'look of stone' which has been greeting me for the past few months. I'm not watching her every move, but have noticed differences in the past two weeks. Simple things like leaving her phone open for me to see, although I don't look, are real changes that I can measure against all the rubbish since April. Cracking? Don't know. NO expectations.
Hi Huddy, that's great to hear you have achieved your goals. All sounds good in terms of your health, confidence, R with the kids and not expecting stuff from your W.
But I also think you have an air of - yup, all done with my work, just need the W to turn now - oh, but she's pretty stubborn...
I hope you don't think I'm being too intrusive, I do only mean well, but the crux of all of our sitches is that our R has failed, and your goals don't really address you as a man and partner on an emotional level. Do you think that achieving your goals will help you have a better partnership in the future either with your W or some other lucky lady? Are you really addressing 'your side of the street' from a relationship perspective?
I wonder whether there is an opportunity here for you to dig a little deeper? I would encourage you to have a think about the kind of work that people like Zeus and PP are doing for instance?