Cadet, no it is not my real name. My H knows I'm on a support board on line, but has never asked about it and knows nothing about what we do on here. I brought it up to him this past Tuesday and asked if he wanted to read my threads. His response was, "Why would I want to do that? It's your space to feel better and vent. If you want me to read something, I will, but otherwise it would be like if you were an alcoholic and I went to your AA meeting."
It made me feel better. but then I remember the not believing anything they say. Oh well.
So on Monday, I'll be away for a week, which is the start of my new job. So, the changes are starting to happen. I hope I weather them well.
His response was, "Why would I want to do that? It's your space to feel better and vent. If you want me to read something, I will, but otherwise it would be like if you were an alcoholic and I went to your AA meeting."
It made me feel better. but then I remember the not believing anything they say. Oh well.
Maybe for the moment you can believe that he is not snooping on you, IMHO.
Glad that is not your real name.
I think you should just use some normal precautions but it sounds like you should be fine.
And I don't mind the hijack of the end of my last thread. It was informative and helpful. Hijack away!
Thanks, Cadet. I have no history or cookies saved, never stayed logged in, and so on, so I guess I have.
On to our regular programming.
Hi Eirinn,
I bet you'll do fine on the start of your new job. Good luck!
I'm heading out to meet up with my children for my b-day.
{Hugs}
Bob
Good luck at your new job Eirinn! That's a big change in itself so try to stop every once in a while and take some deep breaths, your CNS will thank you!
Big hug,
PP
Bob, hope you have a great time with your kids!
PP, thanks! I haven't had a full time job, other than raising my child, since 6/2011. I will continue to take one step at a time. Only way I can, right?
E
You're going to rock your new job, I believe in you Eirinn!
Thanks, PP! Any great plans for the weekend? I'm thinking about relaxing a lot.
Not much planned for me E. I've got to work for most of tomorrow and then may spend Sunday with some friends out of town. My GAL'ing as of late has been rather pitiful, and I think it's led to my PMA following suit. I know the two make for a vicious cycle so I need to break that this weekend!
Let's hope it's a good one for us both.
I totally agree! I find myself crawling back into my hole and not GALing as much and then realize that my mood has tanked. It really does take a lot of work not to backslide. It's worth it though!
Enjoy your time with your friends on Sunday!
Hey Eirinn, I agree with PP...you will rock your new job.
I've been going to workshops and getting stuff ready for my new class of kiddos. It's good to stay busy!
Hi All,
Well, I'm headed off tomorrow for my week workshop, and totally backslid. I'm nervous about spending a week with people I don't know 24/7, even at night as I'll have a roommate. And I snore sometimes. Sigh.
I'm worried about being away from my boy for five days. And I'm worried about what my H will do with my S for those 5 days.
So, tonight, after my S went to bed, I started babbling to my H. I was telling him our S's routine, talking about what I'm going to be packing, listened to him talk about finishing the electrical in the house. thanked him for all the work he does even on his days off, talked about how to finish my closet, talked about buying new clothes for work, followed him into the kitchen to tell him that I was sorry I had let my appearance drop in the last years, and then apologized for babbling...and so on. Gosh, I'm an idiot some nights. I should have gone to my room and called a lifeline.
Oh well...I'll have a small chance in the morning to show him the new me again. Then I'll have five days to reset.
Arghh!!
Eirinn, that sounded like a moment when duct tape would have been useful!! Don't worry about it. As you say, tomorrow is another day, and whilst you had a mini-meltdown last night - you can get up and be on your way this morning.
Your H and S will cope just fine and H can call you if he has any queries about routine. Make the most of the workshop, and enjoy the opportunities it brings.
I"m rooting for you! Toots x
I think part of what set it off was that I went out yesterday for two hours and when I got back had a nice talk with my H about various safe subjects including his trip to Home Depot. Lots of validating and smiles. Then my S got up from his nap and my H told him to tell me what was fun for him while I was gone. My S told me how much fun he had pushing the doorbells at the OW's house and how he got to ride in her car to Home Depot.
Just started me thinking about the week coming up. I did let him know that this was the first time my S has ever ridden in a car that wasn't driven by my H or myself.
Hey, E think you did some good with your convo With showing appreciation and showing interest in what H is doing. These are both very important. So whole you didba lot of the talking, there was still a two-way discussion...that isn't easy to do with a h always, even in the best of times
I am excited for you and your workshop this week. You will do great I'm sure, but beyond that you need this break away, so enjoy your downtime on evenings too!
Hi Eirinn, it must be hard hearing stuff like that from your S - ugh. I think the best thing to do is focus on getting on the road and on the way to your workshop serene and intact. In all of your actions, try and show H that you trust him absolutely to take great care of S while you are away. Let go of any potentially 'overprotective' thoughts & impulses. Accept that some of what H does will be 'his' way and not 'yours' and that's okay. Accept that he will make good choices about whose car S gets to drive in and so on.
And when you are away, perhaps limit yourself to a little phone chat a day with S? Be busy with your own stuff and largely let them be. Remember, this is the week you get to have a little time off being 'Mum' and some time to be Eirinn, so make the most of meeting some lovely new people and learning some new stuff. I hope it all goes really well for you! xx
So, new screen name as the other I use frequently and with what happened to Matt, I figured I'd be safer this way. I know doesn't take away from people called me by the other name, but it's not visible from the board. And I kept it an E name which is still Irish too. Short for Eileen if anyone is interested. And no, Cadet, it is not even close to my real name or anyone that I know.
I saw this poem today and loved it!
The Peace of Wild Things
By Wendell Berry
When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.
Where I am this week, is this place. Unbelievable beauty, respite, and peace.
Hey, E think you did some good with your convo With showing appreciation and showing interest in what H is doing. These are both very important. So whole you didba lot of the talking, there was still a two-way discussion...that isn't easy to do with a h always, even in the best of times
Zephyr, thank you so much for those words of encouragement. I just have been viewing it negatively, and I DID do some things right. When I apologized for letting myself go, he gave me this strange look and said it wasn't anything to apologize for, but I could see it made him think. It made me feel better, which is the purpose of this anyways. I didn't do it for him per se as much as for me to recognize my areas of weakness.
Thanks again!
*hugs*
E
Hi Eirinn, it must be hard hearing stuff like that from your S - ugh. I think the best thing to do is focus on getting on the road and on the way to your workshop serene and intact. In all of your actions, try and show H that you trust him absolutely to take great care of S while you are away. Let go of any potentially 'overprotective' thoughts & impulses. Accept that some of what H does will be 'his' way and not 'yours' and that's okay. Accept that he will make good choices about whose car S gets to drive in and so on.
This is so true, Toots! He actually sent me an email today asking why I thought that our S wasn't napping for him, and I told him that it could just be the day. I then started to ask him questions about what he did prior to nap to set it up, but deleted all but the initial comment about the day. I felt anything else would be lecturing.
And when you are away, perhaps limit yourself to a little phone chat a day with S? Be busy with your own stuff and largely let them be. Remember, this is the week you get to have a little time off being 'Mum' and some time to be Eirinn, so make the most of meeting some lovely new people and learning some new stuff. I hope it all goes really well for you! xx
And again you are right. I'm at an incredible place, with great people, and wonderful collaborative ideas. Also, I"m sleeping by myself, so don't have to worry about snoring!
I will try to immerse myself more and try to leave my emotional burdens at home.
Thank you for reminding me what's important this week.
XX
E
Anytime Elly. Hope you have a nice trip!
Just a thought for you. There's Another book might shed some light on your husbands response. This one is by Harley. His needs - her needs. It is kinda similar vein as 5LL insofar as this helps open you eyes to things your spouse might be wanting from marriage. There are some other things in this book like the love bank concept...but the topic for this conversation is what men are looking for out of marriage.
One of them is to have an attractive spouse. Now I read this and thought well BS. I still think my wife is as beautiful as the day I met her (not that she will agree on bit, if I pulled back I can see where she is coming from, but deep down i don't care to think any other way).
Rereading this section, I can understand better what he was going for. When my wife gets dressed up for a wedding (still almost no makeup mind you...va-vva-va vroom). Ya that was missing for a long time. The extra effort to look at her best. We had kids and we let our selves get into that comfortable groove. I get that.
Anyway...your description of H's reaction to your apology made me think of that instantly.
Maybe worth picking up if you run out of books to read
Zephyr, you always come up with great ideas for my reading list! Thank you for always helping me to see my H's point of view. I will indeed add it to my pile!
E
I need to be detached...I need to be detached...
And I trust my husband...I do.
So why is this so difficult?!?!?!?
Called my S tonight to say goodnight. My S was prompted by my H to tell me what he did that day. Went out to an adventure park with his OW-friend. I responded with a perfect PMA, and my son was very enthusiastic.
Having a tough night. Miss my boy so much and am missing my marriage too.
Hey Elly. I just realized who this is. Sorry I fell behind on your sitch. Nothing much to add other than to say I'm proud of you for doing your best each and every day! Glad I'm back on the trail
Hi Zues! Yea, I changed it after what happened to Matt. It wasn't my real name but a screen name he knows I use. So decided to add another layer of safety.
Glad to "see" you!
E
Headed home tomorrow. Have totally loved the beauty and people here! Don't really want to go home to stress.
So, Saturday is our 24th anniversary. Do I do anything? Stick around, go out?
Shoot, just figured out the change in name as well.
Not sure about the anniversary E, that's a tough one. Sounds like your H doesn't mind rubbing it in your face that he's out with someone else. Not very kind of him.
I'd say take yourself out for an amazing dinner, you deserve it.
I'm sure it's tough to miss your family, I know it is actually. Be strong E, deep down strong.
Big hug,
PP
Hi PP! Sorry about the name change, just wanted an extra layer of safety.
I'm not sure going out for supper would be a good idea as I've been gone for five nights. It would reinforce my H's opinion that I always put him last. Maybe just head up to my bedroom early and relax. Rest of the time, my S will be around and I think I'll just treat it like a normal day.
What if he gives me something? I don't think he will...but..
What have others done about this?
Home. Great to see my son and my H. incredibly hard to see him too. He was distant all night and told me he's going hiking tomorrow. Guess that means it's just my S and me.
I wanted to do something to mark our anniversary so bought him a food that he really likes and left a note on it explaining that I wanted him to know I thought of him over the week. I got gifts for my S s I am not expecting a response or a gift from him.
Happy 24th Anniversary to me. H is gone hiking for the day. Not sure he'll be home till late. Not in the best mood today.
But, I'm going to take my S to the fair.
Have a good day all.
E
Happy 24th Anniversary to me. H is gone hiking for the day. Not sure he'll be home till late. Not in the best mood today.
But, I'm going to take my S to the fair.
Have a good day all.
E
Happy anniversary, E.
Take the time today to focus on the good things that have come from your M, especially your S.
Happy Anniversary!! Enjoy the day, it's yours today.
Happy Anniversary! 24 years is an accomplishment!
Enjoy your day!
Thinking of you today E! You rock!
Glad you took a day that could have been a stinker and turned it around into something fun.
Great Job.
Hope you had a nice time
Azzork, PP, Teach, Zues, and Zephyr, thank you all for being so supportive today. It wasn't the best day emotionally for me, but it was a great day with my S. You know what I mean? Saw many people that asked where my H was, and I told them he was off hiking for the day. They didn't know about the day, but made me think everytime.
How did everything go so wrong? How can he be so friendly to me and considerate, but not love our family? I'm starting to wallow here. He hasn't come home yet and I so so miss him. Teach, 24 years would be an accomplishment if we were still together, but we're not. There are light years between us. Gosh I despise nights. Just make me feel the grief.
Zephyr, maybe I did turn it around, but I'm not sure it was a great job if I'm still maudlin right now. I know, grief is natural and he's not home. Just feeling miserable.
Elly -
I discovered today that my divorce is going to completely clean me out financially. Ill be able to rebuild, but at least at the start I will have truly no money.
And then, I watched my kids swimming, and the sight of their happy faces reminded me of how worth it this all is. The time I get to spend with them is worth more than any amount of money.
Hopefully, you can find that level of contentment with your relationship with your son as well. The pain and suffering that we go through is all worth it with one smile, you know?
Oh, Azzork, I am so sorry to hear that. There's nothing that can be done?
Most days, my S and my GAL is enough. It's just this anniversary is killing me. I know I shouldn't have expectations, but all I wanted today is hang out with my family. We've done that often since this started. I just didn't think he would be completely gone the whole day. Proves that I'm not as detached as I thought...again.
I know that today had to be really hard emotionally for you. I am glad you were able to spend it with S. Hope you had fun at the fair!!
Dearest E,
I found you! Thank you for the posts in my thread (I replied to each there). I will catch up with your sitch tonight. I need to look at a few Nursing Homes for a dear sister of mine.
GAL and PMA!
*Hugs*
Bob
Hi "E"
I know how it feels when your anniversary comes around. Mine was at the beginning of June. I agree with Zephyr . . . you turned it around and made something good of it.
If you feel like grieving . . . grieve. Kindly remember, sis, that grieving a loss is very natural. Also remember that none of us know what God has in store for us tomorrow. PMA. PMA. PMA.
Sending you "mega-hugs" and a polite kiss on the cheek.
Does that help at all?
Your "bro,"
Bob
BT, it was a very hard day, but I had a blast with my S! He really had a lot of fun there.
Thank you so much for the support. It really helps!
E
Hi Bob!!! I have missed you! Yesterday was a rough day, but today was better. Did some GALing and relaxing. Then my H took us out to a nice restaurant. Didn't really talk much to me while there, but it was interesting that he would do it.
Thanks again Bob. And if you could send some prayers I'd appreciate it as my S is going in for his evaluation tomorrow.
*Hugs* back at ya,
E
Thanks again Bob. And if you could send some prayers I'd appreciate it as my S is going in for his evaluation tomorrow.
Hi E,
Already done...twice. The best of luck tomorrow, I'll be thinking about you and your son. By the way, I have really missed you, too.
It must be so hard not to worry. I've been searching and found a Bible verse that, I believe, speaks to thinking positive thoughts. I dedicate this to you and your family:
“Summing it all up, friends, I’d say you’ll do best by filling your minds and meditating on things true, noble, reputable, authentic, compelling, gracious—the best, not the worst; the beautiful, not the ugly; things to praise, not things to curse” (Philippians 4:8 Msg)."*Hugs*
Bob
So good news/bad news. My S is not autistic but does have an anxiety disorder due to his intelligence. So that we can work on.
Not sure what my H is feeling though as he has clammed up.
Hi E, that is good news.
The clamming up thing...most men do it. We have no idea how to communicate our feelings, good or bad. We we raised that was and genetically programmed that way.
That inertia is very difficult to overcome. All you can do is offer up your emotional reaction to the news and offer an war if he wants to respond.
He has to want to talk about it...no wild horses gonna drag emotions out of a man if he don't won't to. Now a good councillor can help, but I'd bed a dime to a donut that most men have no inkling of desire for that unless he has something to lose if he doesn't, he won't go.
Zephyr, I think for the most part it is good news. There is a little bit of unknown in there as they want to monitor him for the next few years to see how it goes. I think my H has problems dealing with that ambiguity as I do as well.
I noticed today that when he was quiet and thinking, I immediately jumped to he was upset at me, while in actuality he was digesting the testing and follow up from today. When I gave him the space, he started talking to me.
I wonder how many times in our M that he felt he couldn't be upset or worried because I would assume I screwed up...something to think about and bring up with my IC.
Very reflective night for me.
E, just stopping by. Glad to hear things went well with testing.
I know how easy it is to mind read our H's feelings. I have been doing that as well and I am trying hard to stop it. That and not truly listening. Hsve a bad habit of focusing on what I want to say when he is still talking.
Good on you for taking time for reflection. So important!!
Hey E,
how is the week going. I know school is starting soon...probably too soon so are you ready?
Just dropping in to say we are thinking of you and wishing you a care free afternoon (wishful thinking for sure) !!!
Hello E,
I think that is, for the most part, good news. I have been praying for you and your S daily. Speaking of prayers, here's a little one you may want to print out or write down. I received it from someone today and love it!
"Lord God, Your kindness never fails. I trust that You will be with me and have mercy on me every morning. I will depend on You from now on. Amen."
He is watching over you. And, we have your back, "sis." I know you will get thru all this a stronger E.
xoxo
Bob
Hey e, hope ur weekend was good!
So, I had a whirlwind week with my S and my niece who came up to visit. Tomorrow I start work full time. So full of grief at this. I know in my heart and my mind that my S will be fine and thrive with this change in many ways. But I can't quite seem to stop thinking of the naptime cuddles and rocking.
Gosh I'm sad. In a week or so I know I'll be better, but being in the moment hurts right now.
*hugs* to you all.
E
I know the apprehension of leaving your first born... Man do I remember first day of preschool... He didn't even turn around when I dropped him off, I certainly remember the tears that welled in my eyes.
He will be fine!
You will be fine!!!!!!!!!
Hoping to hear about your first week of work Elly.
So sorry to hear you're hurting E. Your S will be OK. He's infinitely tougher than you think he is.
Life's a journey for all involved, even the little ones. Some things will hurt us that no one intended and sometimes the things we think are the worst end up shaping us in ways we can't imagine not having.
Stay strong, big deep breaths, and lots of hugs for yourself. You're going to be great at your job, and are showing yourself and your S what real strength is.
BIG hug,
PP
Zephyr and PP, thank you so much for the encouragement and understanding. It helps on so many levels. I have our lunches all packed and my work stuff in the car so that tomorrow morning I won't be running around crazy.
Now if I could just fall asleep. I think I can, I think I can.
Try this mantra E, it works for me.
Each phrase four times:
I love you
Forgive me
Thank you
I'm sorry
Sleep tight.
PP
E, you can read engineering Manuel's...they put me out lickedy-split
Good luck tomorrow!
So, the week is going. I'm totally exhausted, so too tired to do anything but keep my PMA. Today I felt like collapsing when I got home, but when my H came in and asked I wanted to hear about his day, I said yes and made the effort to really listen and respond. I'm not sure I really had been doing that before all this.
Week is over. I feel like a wrung out rag doll...but I survived. I will get through this, and so will my son.
One step at a time.
E
Awesome. Glad you made it...as I'm sure with flying colors (as my daddy always said
).
Now for a Nice glass of wine and some well deserved down time with s!!!
"but when my H came in and asked I wanted to hear about his day, I said yes and made the effort to really listen and respond. I'm not sure I really had been doing that before all this."
Thought I responded to this earlier in the week. I love it. I love how you were tired, yet still showed H that what he said mattered!!!! Awesome. I know that is not the end all, but I will bet it mattered to him.
Another up and down weekend. Had a great day yesterday with H and S. Then I go out today, come back and find out the OW stopped by while I was gone. Grrr
HI Elly,
First off, thank you for all of the support you've been lending me. It is of great help and on my toughest days I do find solace in your comments. I hope our dogs get to meet some day.
I'm sorry you H is confusing. Making you your favorite dinner is loving and caring. Having the OW come by is not a dessert to follow up with though. Kind a douchy thing to do in IMHO.
I think on a very real level, our spouses love us. They do. They also love the life they're living. Your H wants to be with OW, my W wants and wanted for some time, this new life she's living. She told me tonight that part of the reason she left was because she just couldn't get work here in our town (very true), but it was being thrown at her in the town she now lives. I agreed. What I didn't say was that that is a total crap reason to walk out on your M. Or even to consider as a contributing factor in walking out on your M. How about we move and stay married? Gosh, who could even think of such a thing.
Until I hear otherwise, I'll assume that your H made you that dinner because part of him still very much loves you. 17 years of marriage is a long time. That's more history than my brain can fathom right now. When I read about sitch's with that much time, it honestly makes my head spin a bit. That's so many Xmas's, so many birthdays. How do you walk away from that?
And what kind of woman gets involved with a man that's been married for that long? Call me old school, and yea, I wasn't husband of the year, but I know boundaries.
I'm sorry you had an up and down weekend E. However, at least there was an up. I'm focusing on the same thing. I got to spend the weekend with my pup. As much as it hurts that she's gone again, I got to talk to my W on back to back days. In person. I got four hugs from her. One that she had to hold her breath for.
I've still got a few big ones left in me and I'm sending them your way. I hope dinner was delicious and if there are any leftovers that maybe OW chokes on them a bit.
Namaste.
PP
Another up and down weekend. Had a great day yesterday with H and S. Then I go out today, come back and find out the OW stopped by while I was gone. Grrr
Hello E,
I am so sorry to hear about what happened today. Please know that you are in all of our thoughts and prayers. We're here for you.
As hard as it must be, try to shrug it off. I know you are a woman of faith, so I hope this prayer gives you strength:
"Lord God, You have chosen me to be Your child. I am a person of strength and worth because of You. Amen."*Hugs*
Bob
PP, you are more than welcome and I'm glad you are able to get some comfort from my comments.
I too have a hard time with our sitch. We have been living together for a total of 24 years. I ask myself that frequently. How does one leave after that much time and not even try to fix it. But then to be fair, did he try for years and I didn't see it? It's a shame that it takes a BD to wake us up.
Thank you so much for the hug! It was a great think to wake up to this morning. Have a great day, and I'll check back later.
*hugs*
E
Hi Bob! Thanks for stopping by on my sitch. I know you've been super busy lately with your own.
I hope you have a terrific day!
Hugs
E
hey E,
I appreciate your post the other day. I am glad to help whenever I can ... I have never been a really good 'advice giver' so, I appreciate it when I am able to help a little.
I really hope your week is going well...working the kinks out at work
I too have a hard time with our sitch. We have been living together for a total of 24 years. I ask myself that frequently. How does one leave after that much time and not even try to fix it. But then to be fair, did he try for years and I didn't see it? It's a shame that it takes a BD to wake us up.
E, sorry to hear that OW was in your home. I know how painful that is.
I agree so much about how bad it is that it took BD to wake us up. My H and I are having talks that should have happened years ago, but in his mind too late. So much regret that I didn't make changes sooner.
Take care!
So, finally had "that" dream last night. Dreamed my H came into the master and instigated sex. I asked him about our separation and he told me that he had decided that he had what he wanted...me"
Such a lovely dream and then to shatter when I woke up. I'm fragmented today.
I have that dream a lot. It is worse than a nightmare. I wish I could stay asleep.
E, I have those dreams ALL THE TIME
I digress. so, may I ask you a question. Since before last November, were you two active at all or was the sex far and few between? Was this driven by both or did you feel that it just happened that way?
I am curious...your husband made a decision to marry you so many years ago, with full understanding of how things were back then. Had you ever been one to escalate and approach him for sex or was it always him that initiated? Has there been any complaints from husband on the frequency since your son was born? have you tried to initiate at all since November?
I just wonder if the sex situation has any impact on your current marital situation. it seams to play a huge roll in many of the men's minds around here, so I am curious how much of this could be contributing.
Zephyr, I'll try to answer to the best of my ability.
Since the birth of my son, we would make love maybe once a month sometimes more, which actually was a lot more than I ever did before my son. The physical discomfort went away after the birth of my son, which makes sense. It was probably about 7/8 him and 1/8 me. Interestingly the 1/8 times for me were in 2014.
So, very often it was my H who initiated and I would accept or deny. It got to be very painful for both of us before we had our S as I would feel bad for saying "no" and he would feel bad for asking. But we would keep trying.
After our S was born, we talked about sex a few times and frequency. He indicated he wanted to make love every day and I immediately became afraid that I would let him down again because I wouldn't emotionally be able to make love every day with a young infant. But I made an effort to do it more often. And I would initiate some days, and just fun as well. The POV is tough here as I felt like he only wanted to make love quickly where as I might want to just cuddle or fool around sometimes.
After November, when he told me that he felt like I was only offering because I was trying to save our M, I have not initiated. I don't know how. I don't want to be told I'm doing something only to save our M, which when he said that, upset me greatly. I've worked hard to understand that I, alone, am in control of my physical self and I felt like he diminished that.
But, I think I mentioned this many threads ago, although he denies it, I fully believe that intimacy in a physical form is a huge part of our issues, and I'm not quite sure how to go about getting it back.
Because of my own trauma, I have deeply wounded my best friend and H. I just don't know what to do about it.
I think that this all goes back to the same thing...our spouses must learn to trust our 'new selves'. I don't know about a timeline, maybe the IC can help there better.
Your husband did not trust your intentions for initiating after his ILYBNILWY speech. he stated that out loud. At some point, you are going to have to speak the truth about this to him...state just like you did above, that you are sorry if you had hurt him in all of this when I comes to the love making frequency. That you DO have physical needs too and desire them from him.
If you were to do this, you could also tell him you are not sure that every day is a reasonable frequency and then state what you also wanted...cuddling and fooling around. Sometimes these things won't always lead to sex.
IDK, maybe this is a topic for when your husband decides to come back to the table, with MC help. it seams like a big unaddressed topic (AS IT HAD BEEN IN MY MARRIAGE AS WELL). As with the rest, the trust has to come back first...for both of you!
Sorry if I dredged something up that I shouldn't have...was just curious on your take for that. Wouldn't it be nice to just be able to tell your H about your dream...just flat out.
OM Goodness ELLY4... you just helped me see the light...
{I noticed today that when he was quiet and thinking, I immediately jumped to he was upset at me, while in actuality he was digesting the testing and follow up from today. When I gave him the space, he started talking to me.
I wonder how many times in our M that he felt he couldn't be upset or worried because I would assume I screwed up...something to think about and bring up with my IC}
This is so me.. always concerned that I have done something wrong... could it possibly be that he can just be quiet and digesting something and it not have anything to do with me at all? This is definitely something I need to consider more and work on. Everything can't be my fault all the time, why do I try to take the blame or assume that I'm at fault.. is it a form of control, lack of self esteem, or childhood memory/trauma maybe???
hhmmm
I have read some of your recent posts and where Zephyr brought up the "making coffee" subject and I know it may not be the right time, that's for you to decide but would initiating be a 180 for you?
have you flirted with him recently?
have you complimented him lately?
have you accidently on purpose brushed up against him just to ses if there's a spark?
you'll never know unless you try. Just sayin'..
Zephyr, this is a big issue that I am glad to talk about. I think it's a hard one on here for a lot of folks because they can't imagine our M history. I welcome the feedback as I really need help in this area. Is it painful to talk about? Yes, of course! But if I don't face my failures (and my successes as we had times over the years that we didn't think it would ever happen) how am I going to be able to fix my M. I worry that it's unfixable, but we all worry that.
Funny that you brought up asking me to marry him, as my IC brought up the same thing. I can't take the blame for the whole M as he knew, from 6 years experience, that it might never happen for us. But it has, and I would like to continue a relationship with intimacy with him.
But, if he's involved with the OW, even on an emotional level, I'm not sure now's the time to start. This is so complicated.
Thank you more than I can show for being forthright with me. I soo greatly appreciate it!
Lonelee, that's great that something that I realized is helping you! That's how this board works and I'm glad to contribute to it.
Initiating would be a 180 for me, but he's been sending out these very large stop signals, I think. As long as I stay light hearted and PMA, we're doing well. As soon as I make any moves towards him, he rapidly goes the other direction. Although I haven't done any initiation moves....maybe I will after I talk to my IC.
Thanks again!
E
I agree so much about how bad it is that it took BD to wake us up. My H and I are having talks that should have happened years ago, but in his mind too late. So much regret that I didn't make changes sooner.
Take care!
BT, it is rather sad. All we can do is continue to prove that we are making permanent changes and realize that we can only control ourselves.
*hugs*
E
I have that dream a lot. It is worse than a nightmare. I wish I could stay asleep.
TK, I so wanted to go back to sleep, but I couldn't. There are days that sleeping is much better, and today was one of them.
*hugs*
E
Oh, and Lonelee, another thing I did was yesterday my H called to say that he could pick up our son so that I work late and not feel that I had to leave early. My first reaction was to say no, as I always feel that it's putting him out to deal with schedules and transportation stuff. Yet, when I stepped back, I realized that those responses might be why he feels I don't trust him. I had to let go and say "yes".
Which I did. Yea me 2.0!
Of course then I obsessed whether "she" was going to be with them. Then I let that go to....sorta.
Good job on the 180 E 2.0! He doesn't have to know if you sorta obsessed or not, all he knows that you did something different. And you know too. And you know why. Double win.
As for sleep, I'm not sure if I've posted this for you but it's worked wonders for me and I'm a terrible sleeper. If something wakes me up I used to try to put myself back to sleep by arguing with my W in my head...not that smart.
Try this mantra, just do it as many times as necessary:
I love you, I love you, I love you
Forgive me, forgive me, forgive me,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
Thank you, thank you, thank you
Repeat as needed. I've woken up upset, said, "I'm not saying the stupid mantra. Ok I'll say it twice....I love you, I love you, I...." and then woken up four hours later. Those four hours can be the difference between a productive relatively happy day and one of misery and depression. It's worth giving it a try.
Big hug,
PP
I can so relate to the whole control thing it is scary to step back and not "do" for i feel i always have done it all in the past so that is hard to change.
i catch myself sometimes wanting to comment or mother if you will when i see something happen that i would normally react to ..
for instance this is me mothering.
when we were out to dinner the other night he spilled a greasy noodle on his shirt.. i did suggest put water on it immediately and then realized maybe i shouldn't have so after that i didn't offer that he should then treat the stain with detergent when he gets home.. hahaha so that shirts probably a gonner now and if not maybe he'll wear it with the stain and not look very attractive.. see my other motive here haha
so i am trying to learn not to control and let him find his way, otherwise how will he learn for himself? on the flip side if he learns all this stuff and ends up coming back home he should be more helpful around the house right ?
ok, ok,... I'm down tonight and want to talk to H about R and I can't...or at least shouldn't.
STFU.
I can do this.
Right there with you E.
Almost Started a bit down that road tonight after a nice kiss that I wanted to go further but could feel in her tension she did not.
I ended up leaving for a walk. Have been sitting at the fountain park for an hour staring at the sun setting.
I have to go home soon...its getting buggy. Then what.
STFU mark...that is what. I hope your smoothie works
Sorry E and Z, it's pretty crappy that we have people that we love and care about in our lives and want to connect with further but cannot.
Truly I feel for you both and am in the same boat. My W asked for more and more connection for our entire M and I'm willing to talk about any subject on earth right now. Instead I'm home with a book, a bottle of ginger beer, and a notebook full of plans for next year that don't include her. Not fun at all.
How about we all clink glasses on our smoothies, think of happier days ahead and know that our situations will take care of themselves in time.
I'm sending you both hugs, big hug for E, big man hug for Z.
PP
Stay strong you three.
Remember that there is much power in doing nothing.
Im right there with you all but not opening that door until im invited by H. Cheers to all.
Misery loves company right?
Thanks for the support everyone. It does help. Last night my H asked if I wanted him to take our S out for the day so I could get some work done. Sounds nice, but I'm beginning to catch on that whenever he says something like this, he will be meeting up with the OW and will let my S tell me later. I told him that it would be very helpful but that I would like to know what the plans were as our S was involved. He said he was just taking him out for the day. I asked, "with ...?" And he said yes.
So yes I'll get work done, but I'll be thinking of them. I had so little time with my boy this week, and now some other lady is getting my time. This stinks.
Clinking my glasses with you Zephyr, PP, and Lonelee! We will get through tonight.
PP I tried your mantra last night and it helped, thanks.
Azzork, it is so hard to sit back and do nothing after awhile, but I know you are right.
E, I must have missed something somewhere. So, your H is still living at home and is having A? Is it EA or PA? And he takes your S around her? Have you set boundaries around the later?
There are so many threads to follow that it is easy to start getting sitchs confused!
BT here is basically your answer. While I'm not sure about a PA , im willing to bet on an EA.
Thanks Cherry.
I asked my H if he was still just friends with the OW or had it moved to a different level. And he said just friends and then wanted to know why. I explained how we have both made comments in the past when divorced friends had brought their significant others into their child's life and how inappropriate that was. He agreed but said he still didn't know what I was getting at. So I got blunt and said that as he wants to move on that he or I might start dating and do we want Z to meet or play with those dates. He seemed appalled and said that we shouldn't be involving out S in our dating. Then he took our S and went to his friend's house. That's what started my thought process.
I don't want to push him away if he is just friends with her (yea I know highly unlikely but it has happened) but I don't want to just sit back either.
No worries about asking me. I just realized this morning that I lost your thread somehow.
Oh, ok. I remember reading that post. I thought maybe it had progressed or you found something out that I missed. Doesn't the uncertainty in it kill you?
Yes it does, but I have no proof. I almost asked him tonight if she and her husband are separated. How is could she spend so much time with my H?
I've thought long and hard about how sex impacted my M. Obviously I was the high desire spouse, and my M failed for many reasons.
I've made the first point before, but it bears repeating. It was an issue that was infinitely more important to me than STBX ever realized. There was a monumental communication barrier. It was like she kept saying "I get it, I get it, I get it" when if for just one moment we could switch places she would return to her body and be like "oh my god, I didn't realize THAT'S how it felt to you, and that's how important it was". I used to joke that woman are wired to want babies, men are wired to want sex. So sex feels as important to us as babies do for woman
So first point, yes, it's very important for men.
But the second point is that it's not all about satisfying every sexual desire. I get that's not happening. Trust me, that's impossible. I have sexual desire pretty much constantly, all day, every day, and that is stimulated perpetually. I guess that's how nature wired me. The thing is, I don't want to act on all of those desires! Ick. What I want is a partner that can try to understand those desires, and incorporate them into our marriage as a TEAM.
For example, if my partner was coming across as dismissive of my desires, disinterested in understanding them, judgmental that they were perverted, irritated that they were so expansive, or frustrated that she had to put up with them...that's pretty much the end of any serious intimacy we can have. Note the opposite doesn't mean having sex anytime and way I want it...just that I'm understood, validated, accepted, and that we approach them saying "in our M your desires play a big role, and we need to take that into account as we together figure out how we can work together as a team"...wow, that would be POWERFUL for me.
With that point of view, if H asked for sex every day, instead of explaining why that's unreasonable, impossible, or dismissing his input because it's so extreme and instead just shrugging and doing what you can do...maybe have a discussion about that, one that encompasses his needs and your fears of disappointing him. Frankly that's a discussion that could benefit from a good IC, particularly if destructive patterns had formed that kept cropping up.
Just my thoughts on what I long for, and my regrets on how I wish it had gone differently in my M as well. Carry on soldiers.
I'm devastated tonight. I thought a lot about what you said Zues and I've read it before. Tonight for the first time since April, H wanted to talk. He told me that he still wants a D and now that I'm working we should start thinking along those lines. He asked if I still refused to sign the D papers if he got them. I said yes. I told him that I appreciated him telling me how he was feeling and that I still thought we might work on our M.
He said that he can't work our M because he always feels guilty for causing me pain. I apolgized for making him feel that way. He said I didn't, it was just him. That I hadn't done anything wrong and it was all him. I brought up the sex issue and he kept saying that sex had very little to do with it as he knew what he was getting in to before he married me. I told him that I still wanted to own my lack in that area and that I was more than willing to meet an MC to talk over issues.
He got red eyed and said he couldn't and that he's just unhappy and nothing is going to change because it's not me.
I saw that the conversation seemed to be a cheeseless tunnel, so I reiterated that I heard he was still wanting to divorce me and that he doesn't know the next step, but that there needed to be. He said yes and then said don't you sound clinical. I told him if I sounded that way it was because I was trying not to get emotional and that sometimes I misinterpret what he says. By repeating it I hope I get what he's saying.
Now I'm in my room. Crying and devastated again. He also had our S all day and so the reality of significant less time with our son is setting in. I really don't understand God's path for me tonight. And I miss someone holding me while I cry.
Stay strong, E. I know that the thought and the word "divorce" are scary. But think how incredibly you did in that conversation. You recognized that there is nothing you can do say to change his mind, so you validated and got away. There's nothing you can do to control his thoughts or actions, but you can hold your head up for the way you handled yourself in the face of some of the most painful words you can hear.
And remember that it's easy to SAY you want a divorce. There's a long time between now and that day, and there's no telling what journey you will all take between now and then.
Go easy on yourself tonight, E. We're here for you.
I so wish there was a physical place to go to. I just can't stop crying. You think I did well? I thought he was upset that I stopped the conversation but I knew I had to.
You stopped the conversation before it spiraled out of control. Lord knows getting into a game of he said she said where you both end up mad or crying or both in front of each other isn't a better ending.
You can't fix him. If he's upset, it's just as likely not about you he's breaking up his family, he damn well should be upset, ya know?
Go for a walk if you need? Or a short drive? Sometimes fresh air can just help you breathe a bit.
Thank you Azzork. I'll go take the dogs out. Maybe that will help. I'm just so overwhelmingly sad right now.
It IS sad. And it's ok to BE sad.
But ultimately, you're still in pretty much the same place you were yesterday. I think you are doing so much better personally - at the end of the day, that's all you ever could control anyway.
Enjoy your dogs!
I am so very sorry e. I wish I could take this pain away. It has been so trying. I cried myself to sleep...took almost an born then woke up about 4 hours later wondering exactly that...what is my path.
I put on the coffee, folded my laundry and got on my way for the boys soccer tournament up in Wisconsin all day. Have two more games colors then home for another day.
Tomorow It is time for you and me to really, and I mean Really ratchet up our GAL activities. Tonight though...I am going to have a drink or two and sleep alone 3" from my wife.
I really wish things were different for you right now.
Hugs from Wisconsin
Mark
Oh Zephyr, I do too. I couldn't even imagine being in the same bed with my H right now after this. As Azzork said, I guess nothing else has changed really.
I am so very glad I found this site. Try to sleep well.
I'm sending you hugs from New England.
*Hugs*
Elly, I'm sorry to hear this. As others have said, it is so hard to hear those words and of course you are upset.
I think, as with so many of our sitches - we need to let go in order to try and hold on. I'm not sure what you not agreeing to sign the D means - but if it would mean resisting to the D, I think it would be best to work towards acceptance of it. Work towards losing any fear of D. He wants us to D, this is what may happen. It isn't what I want and I have told him that. But it is what he wants and I accept that. That's been my approach anyway.
Have you considered what part MLC may be playing in your sitch? Your H would be the right age for it. And the POW/EA? in the picture (running behaviours) and 'it's not you - it's me' remind me of my sitch. Has your H demonstrated other potential MLC traits? I have found the Hearts Blessing site helpful on MLC a treasure trove of articles & Q+As.
Whilst it's horrible, at least you know where he is at right now - he wants to D. But as you say, nothing else has changed really. Not in DB terms. Him wanting a D is not the end of the road - not by any means. The best you can do is recover from the convo (which I also think you handled well) dust yourself off and get back on the pony...there is always hope until you decide otherwise.
Take care xx
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