Hello, I need some advice. I'm trying to do 180 but am not sure if it's the best action to take right now.
My H is working/vacationing across the country for the summer to return in Sept. Some of that time away will be spent with the OW. He considers us separated but he hasn't moved out yet.
Just before he left, we were getting really close. He said he wants to stay friends. We were bike riding, hanging out with friends/family and having fun together. I initiated sex a lot. He turned me down a lot but we did connect a few times. He says he doesn't want me to feel bad. He says I am sexy and beautiful but he felt it wasn't right for us to have sex and it made him feel bad.
So the first week and a half he was away I was trying to keep in contact with him by sending him one way texts and emails. I was a complete basket case! I actually stooped so low as to go into his email account to find out where he was. Saw that he bought her a ring and that my MIL was wishing them well. WTH? He found out I was in his email. He said he was angry but didn't want to waste energy on it. Then said it was just sad. I apologized and asked him to change his pswd so I wouldn't be tempted again.
He called me on my birthday with my prompting. At first the conversation was strained but by the end it was comfortable. We talked for an hour. On Thursday it'll be 1 week since that conversation. I haven't texted, emailed, or called him since. I feel not as crazy now because I do feel like I have some control over the situation but I am worried whether I'm doing the right thing.
Isn't he going to get closer with the mistress if I don't keep in contact? Won't he feel like I don't care and that I can live my life without him? I'm afraid the 180 will backfire on me. Any advice is appreciated.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Won't he feel like I don't care and that I can live my life without him?
What you want is for him to feel like you DO care, but you CAN live your life without him, even though that's not what you wanted.
Does that make sense? If he knows he has you there, pining for him and tolerating his affair, and even willing to have sex with him . . . where's his incentive to end this destructive path he's on?
Have you attempted to set ANY boundaries with him since you found out about his affair?
Starsky
Thank you for the links Cadet.
Starsky309, I haven't set any boundaries.
I was too busy trying to win him back. The OW lives across the country so it's not like I had it in my face. I told him early on that if he slept with her we'd be over but then he did. He then used that against me and said that he would never say that to me. Then I said, "All women say that but I'm still here aren't I".
He keeps talking about moving out. I really don't want him to. I'm starting University in the fall and so is my son who has Aspergers. Financially and emotionally we need him here.
Hello NvGvUp,
First let me say that I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You have a lot of really good questions regarding detaching and not wanting the 180 to backfire. Has the 180/no contact been for 1 week while he is away?
It would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Also, I told him that this OW and him are not going to work out. She lives across the country and the relationship started with lies. I told him this was just a blip in our marriage and that he would come back to me. I also said that I would wait for him. That made him cry.
Hello Cristy,
He'll be away all summer. I started the 180 last week.
I'm finding that having no contact with him makes me feel distant from him. Won't he be feeling the same thing? Now the OW can fill the space that I am leaving.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you for the links Cadet.
Starsky309, I haven't set any boundaries.
I was too busy trying to win him back. The OW lives across the country so it's not like I had it in my face. I told him early on that if he slept with her we'd be over but then he did. He then used that against me and said that he would never say that to me. Then I said, "All women say that but I'm still here aren't I".
Wow -- that's interesting. Can you see what happened here? "A", you didn't enforce the boundary you set, and there were absolutely NO CONSEQUENCES for him violating it. But then even worse, "B", he flipped it on you and tried to make YOUR boundary (and a perfectly reasonable one, too -- basically "I will not live in an open marriage") the reason that HE was now pulling away from you? Really??
He keeps talking about moving out. I really don't want him to. I'm starting University in the fall and so is my son who has Aspergers. Financially and emotionally we need him here.
And he knows this, which is why he's continuing to do what he's doing. As long as you're conveying this neediness, he's not going to change. What steps can you take to reduce your dependence on him? I know this sounds harsh, but what would you and your son do if your husband were suddenly killed in an automobile accident? You've got to start planning that way, I'm sorry to say.
In the meantime, you need to come up with some boundaries that you can and WILL enforce. Because when you set one and allow it to be violated, without consequence, it then becomes even worse than if you'd never set it at all.
Starsky
I'm finding that having no contact with him makes me feel distant from him. Won't he be feeling the same thing? Now the OW can fill the space that I am leaving.
That's the idea. As long as he's getting some of his emotional and physical needs met by you, and some by his OW, then he's never going to change the path he is on. Letting illicit affair partners be together, warts and all, can often take the mystique off of the relationship. So that's part of it.
But he also needs to feel like he's losing YOU. I've been at this here on this forum (as Starsky and previously two other usernames, going back over 11 years and over 25,000 posts, studying affairs) and I have never YET seen a marriage saved when there was infidelity involved, where the cheating spouse didn't have a credible fear that they were beginning to lose their betrayed spouse.
Until he credibly fears that he might lose you, you'll never get him back.
Now, don't get me wrong -- people caught up in affairs often don't CARE if they lose you, so it's not guaranteed to work. But I can guarantee you it WON'T work if he thinks he's just got you sitting there like a puppy dog as his "plan B" if things don't work out with his OW.
People value most that which is difficult to achieve, and us men especially like the the thrill of the hunt.
Starsky
Also, I told him that this OW and him are not going to work out. She lives across the country and the relationship started with lies. I told him this was just a blip in our marriage and that he would come back to me. I also said that I would wait for him. That made him cry.
You can't teach an infidel. Stop trying to teach him. At best you can land little "truth darts" here and there, and if what you said above only gets said OCCASIONALLY (no more than once every couple of weeks) then okay -- those are actually two pretty good truth darts.
But more importantly,
you do NOT want to communicate endless patience. Instead of "I will wait for you," it's best to say "I won't live in an open marriage. I don't want a divorce, but neither will I allow myself and our family to be disrespected like this. You need to know that, and you need to know that I won't wait forever. We both have some big decisions to make."
THAT is strong, and THAT is attractive. Neediness and supplication is never attractive.
Starsky
P.S. Look up a poster named Train, and read her threads. I'll ask her to stop by yours, too. She successfully DB'd her marriage using a combination of strength and flirty mysteriousness with her wayward husband.
NtGvUp,
Starsky is really sharing valuable insight with you. Consider Starsky's posts truth darts.
Now is the perfect time for you to Detach and GAL while he is away all summer. You'll be better prepared when he returns if you do.
There is much you can do to get things moving in a more positive direction.
Cristy
Thank you Starsky. What are truth darts?
I did tell him that I thought his time away would be good for both of us to figure out what we want. I have been feeling stronger without him here. I can see a future without him not that that is what I want obviously.
My kids do not know what's going on with us either. My D, who lives away from home, recently started asking when is Dad coming home. He couldn't give her an answer and neither could I. Then she just came out with it and asked what's going on.
I told my H and he decided he doesn't want to tell the kids over the phone so he's coming home for a couple of weeks. How should I handle his being home? How much should we tell the kids? I don't know if he'll reveal the OW. I doubt it.
Another question:
Since I learned about the A, I have been taking better care of myself, bike riding, and I've lost over 20lbs. As a result of the weight loss, I have been able to wear my wedding ring again. So I've been wearing that and also a heart locket the my H gave me a couple of years ago. He definitely noticed that I was wearing both.
Now I'm thinking maybe I should take off my ring and locket to show him that I'm rethinking things. Would that be a good or bad move? I don't know. Should I keep my ring on or not?
How do I do the LRT without making it seem like I've moved on? I don't want H to think that. He's already told me to go ahead and date. He says maybe I'll find someone to make me happy.
My H is coming home for a few weeks tomorrow. I don't know how to act towards him. I haven't contacted him for a week now. Do I act as if everything is fine with me and that I'm getting on with my life? I really don't want to make the wrong move.
Another fear I have regarding the LRT is that it may be more of the same. One of the problems in our relationship is that neither one of us communicated our needs very well. We would give little hints but not fully put it out there and then expect the other person to be able to read their mind. We didn't want to hurt each others feelings.
If I'm acting as if I'm moving on and GAL and not communicating how I am really feeling, isn't that just more of the same behaviour?
Please help...
I'm not a veteran here, but since nobody else has answered, I'll give it a try:
It sounds great that you have taken well care of yourself. The saying around here is 'become a partner that only a fool would leave' - meaning, show yourself from your best side.
Have a positive attitude, have plans (personally, I wouldn't date or pretend to date - I'd go out with girlfriends and do things with the kids, but I told my H that I wasn't looking to date, I was committed to my marriage as long as I was married).
Be informed. Know your rights, know what you need in order to become independent, use your support system. The more you know about your future, the more you feel that you can manage, the more confidence you will exude. But let H take the lead - you're not interested in getting a D, so don't make it easy for him.
When it comes to communication, I would be straightforward but keep it positive. The way I behaved towards H when I found out about his affair (he tried to say we were separated while I was away for a few months), was to answer his questions clearly, ask questions, but not throw fits or get upset. The calm communication helped demystify the A and OW quite a bit, I think.
My overall attitude was: I'm committed to saving my M. It will require work and I think I will be able to forgive, but H will have to do his part and things will have to be very different - obviously we were both unhappy and we have to figure that out.
And I have to wonder... He went to visit OW - is this the first time he has seen her? And he's coming back for a few weeks on his own initiative? I wonder if it wasn't so great there after all... But don't let him think you suspect that, if you do.
Does your D live nearby? Is your son also his son?
It was too late to add it to my post, but a crucial part of our progress has been how DB and DR, and especially the posts here on 180s, helped me find out what I needed to change about myself. It has been a journey of self-improvements just as much as a relationship rescue. And I like myself a lot better these days!
I just re-read your posts to see if I could find out when you first found out about OW and how long the A has been going on, how they met and when it turned in to a PA.
I realized you have been together since you were both 15! I guess your H is wondering about what he has missed out on... Maybe you should read about midlife crisis and see if you think it fits?
Read the 37 rules if you haven't already.
You should be busy out GAL, being mysterious, keep conversations short but friendly, let him be jealous of wondering where you are.
Maybe don't be home when you know he is arriving. Or be dressed up and heading out the door, if he asks where - you could say 'meeting some friends' with a smile on your face and leave it at that.
Do not initiate any R talk
Good luck!
Oh and ... Know that not one thing you do or don't do will make or break whatever outcome in the future. Do NOT have sex with him! I bet he is going to expect you to be clingy, try to initiate sex and R talks --- so do the opposite. None of that!
T0 nailed it. Your job when H is home is to act like in the week you didn't speak to him, you had an epiphany. You realized that this may not be what you want, but you're going to be fine. Actually, you're going to be better than fine. You're going to be HAPPY.
Since it seems, according to the information you have provided, you have been really weak and clingy in front of H since BD, it's very important for you to remember these things:
1. You can't talk sense into him. Don't even try. Don't mention the separation. Don't mention the OW. Don't mention your relationship with him. Don't mention your changes. And don't repeat your wish to save your M. Don't repeat that you're going to "stand" or fight for your M. You've already said it once. He knows. If you repeat it, you look like a weak doormat. Don't go there. You're not a weak doormat. If he tells the kids about the A, fine. Your kids are grown, yes? If your kids ask you questions, be honest with them. Don't make digs against your H. But don't lie to them if they ask you questions.
2. Have plans to go out, but don't tell H about your plans. Dress like a million dollars. Wear a new perfume. New jewelry. Be mysterious. Don't be mean. Don't be short and snarky. Be light and breezy. Yes, you're going to feel like you're dying on the inside. No, your new attitude will not drive him away ... as long as you're not being sappy or b!tchy in the meantime. In fact, your new attitude is going to make him a little curious. He may ask you where you're going. Smile and say, "Out with friends," then keep on moving. He may ask you what time you'll be getting home. In passing, say in an upbeat way: "Not sure! Probably late. Make yourself at home. Don't wait up!" Will this make him feel like you're moving on without him? Yep. It will. And despite how you're feeling right now, that's EXACTLY what he needs to see. Because the truth is: No matter what he decides, you WILL be okay. I'm not asking you to be cheerful and happy to mask your feelings of hurt and pain and rejection. I promise I'm not. I know those feelings are real, and there's a time and a place for you to deal with them, alone and with safe, trusted friends. Your H isn't safe right now, and you can't trust him. He has fired you as his W, and he thinks he's already found your replacement. He is disrespecting you - and your M - to your face. What I AM asking you to do is to believe in you. I'm asking you to try to have a positive attitude while his eyes are on you. I'm asking you to do something that makes you feel good about yourself - strong and powerful and confident, just like you were before you met him. (THOSE are the attributes that made him fall in love with you in the first place, right? Would he have fallen in love with you if you were clingy and weak and needy and sappy? Of course not!) I'm asking you not to fall to pieces in front of him - in anger OR in pain. Don't let him see you sweat. Don't give him that power. If you need to fall apart, do it when he isn't around. You've earned it. Cry your heart out. But not in front of him. More than anything, I'm asking you to gift yourself some dignity in the face of your long-time H having an unrepentant A in your face. This is to make YOU feel better. It has nothing to do with him. You walk around that house like you are the ruler of the roost. Because, sweetheart, you ARE. Don't let him allow you to forget that. There may be a time for you to listen to your H and to validate his feelings. Right now - while he's in the middle of an A - is NOT the time.
3. DO NOT have sex with him. This is in consideration of your health and life. He may try to initiate it just to see if he still has you where he wants you: Plan B. Don't give him that. As Starsky says, people - and most definitely men - want most that which is difficult to obtain. You're not easy. Leave "easy" to the OW. Your his W, and, yes, you should be able to ML to your H. But he's not your H right now. He's someone else's sexual play toy. I know that hurts to hear. But you should rest assured that that's usually ALL affair partners are: ego boosters and sex toys. And they often get discarded just like broken sex toys as soon as the fun wears off. Trust this.
4.. Do whatever you wish with your rings. That's a personal choice. If I were your H, I'd find it odd - and, frankly, a little pathetic - that you started wearing your marriage-related jewelry AFTER I had left you in part to spend time with OW. I understand the ring only fits now - congratulations on your weight loss; I love hearing when people here are able to do it in a healthy way like GAL and bike riding ... I lost 20 pounds from not being able to eat when my H left (unhealthy as heck, but I couldn't stomach food) - but the locket? Why would you wear something so sentimental, that represents your M, while your H is choosing to spend nights with a woman who is working right alongside him to try to destroy your M?
It's time to get a little angry about your sitch, sweetie. It's time to take your power back. It's time to take your dignity back. Don't let him chip away at those things for one more second.
He's only going to be home for a limited time for this visit. Make it count. Give him something to think about. I bet OW will be the one wringing her hands and pacing the floors, wondering what he's doing with YOU while he's at home. Be the better woman. (You ARE the better woman, so BE HER.) At the end of his time here, make sure you've left an impression on him so that when he looks at OW again, he thinks: Geez. I think I've been backing the wrong horse lately. You and I KNOW he has. Time to show him.
Another fear I have regarding the LRT is that it may be more of the same.
Everybody who lands here - and I'm not exaggerating - says this. very. same. thing. I said it, too.
That's FEAR talking. And that's all it is.
The first thing you have to drop is fear.
Let me say this: If your H had just moved away from you, emotionally, over the years and you guys were reduced to glorified roommates, then being more attentive, more affectionate, more validating, etc. would be a great course of action to try to save your M. But when your H is in an A? It's simply not the same deck of cards. Think of the message it would send to him if you are more attentive and affectionate and validating when your HUSBAND is outright telling you he is intimate with another woman!
Yuck!
Sooooooo unattractive.
Hello Painter,
Thank you for your response. I was beginning to think I was doing something wrong.
Yes, I was 15 and he was 16 when we started dating. H was just telling me in Feb how much he loved me and our kids. How much he needs all of my love and I said me too. Played romantic music for me. We had a great sex life and he even has said we've had a great marriage. So I was totally blindsided by his stating he thought he needed to be alone. He said he needed to find fulfillment, and that he loved me on many levels but just didn't feel the same about us. He kept saying things were complicated when I'd ask about what he needed to be fulfilled. Yes definitely a MLC!
This year he has been away for work a lot more. I finally got out of him that he had met someone at work and that he'd been calling her. He said he was going to take some time to himself (3weeks) and figure things out. I asked if OW was going to be there and he said that yes for part of the time. I was a complete basket case when he was away. Especially when I knew they would be together. I told him before he left if he had sex with her, we'd be done. Well he did but I'm still here.
He said while he was away to consider us separated. In his mind then he doesn't believe he cheated! WTH? He told his mother about OW and she told him to follow his heart. She's totally ok with him meeting up with her this summer, meeting her family, and giving her a ring. What a piece of work!!
Our kids don't know about what's happening. At first my H wanted to separate and move out as soon as he came back after his 3wk "break" but then he thought to wait to tell the kids until my son graduated. During the 2.5 months before graduation we continued acting as if we were still a couple. We hung out with family, friends, and went on bike rides. We had sex a few times too. He was reluctant and felt it was wrong but I said that I was still his wife so why not?
The OW lives across the country so he could only talk to her by phone/text. I put her out of my mind and thought if I could reconnect with him, we'd stand a chance. And we were connecting until he said that he could feel me pulling him towards me and that he needed to make a "clean break" from me and move out when he gets home in Sept.
So the plan was to tell the kids after the summer. He was supposed to be away all summer for work and with the OW. My daughter, who doesn't live at home, started asking when dad was coming home. Then she just came out and asked what's going on. I texted my H and told him he'd have to talk to the kids. He said he didn't want to do it over the phone so that is why he is flying home for 2weeks to talk to them in person.
Like i said, the first 1.5 weeks he was away, I was constantly texting and emailing him. After he called my on my birthday, I did a 180 and stopped all communication. Maybe that's part of the reason he's coming home? Maybe wishful thinking.
Thank you TO and Train!!
I got all this feedback at the same time. A lot to read and consider. I will definitely stop being a doormat. I know I've been doing that. And no more sex! But damn I miss it
I took off my necklace but will keep my ring on for now. I guess I put it on because it symbolizes the commitment we made. My H is very sentimental too so I thought it may spark something in his memory/heart. Who knows anymore. He's not himself that is for sure!
He told me what flight he was coming in on. Normally I'd pick him up from the airport but he didn't ask yet and he's due in tomorrow afternoon. I'm not sure what his plans are for getting home...
" He's only going to be home for a limited time for this visit. Make it count. Give him something to think about. I bet OW will be the one wringing her hands and pacing the floors, wondering what he's doing with YOU while he's at home. Be the better woman. (You ARE the better woman, so BE HER.) At the end of his time here, make sure you've left an impression on him so that when he looks at OW again, he thinks: Geez. I think I've been backing the wrong horse lately. You and I KNOW he has. Time to show him."
Wow, that's quite the pep talk Train! Thanks so much
What do I say when he talks about moving out?
I'm sure he will bring it up. So far I've told him he can sleep in the spare room or downstairs. I'm starting school in Sept. which is going to be a big expense so financially it makes sense for him to stay. Also, it would be more difficult to show I'm GAL and doing 180s if he isn't here to see it.
What's the consensus about moving out vs separated living?
but will keep my ring on for now. I guess I put it on because it symbolizes the commitment we made. My H is very sentimental too so I thought it may spark something in his memory/heart.
It won't. If anything, in the middle of an active A, it'll do exactly the opposite. And this tells me that you're thinking that your actions can change your H's mind. The *only* thing that *might* make him doubt his decision to move on in life without you is a credible fear that he might be losing you. That's something you can't relay in words; it has to be through *actions*. You need to remember who you are and what you are made of. And then get a little angry that your H has disrespected you. Don't show him anger. Show him confidence.
I'm starting school in Sept. which is going to be a big expense so financially it makes sense for him to stay. Also, it would be more difficult to show I'm GAL and doing 180s if he isn't here to see it.
What's the consensus about moving out vs separated living?
If, in your mind, you depend on him for financial reasons, that is a weakness in you. He will smell it a mile away. I know it would be easier, financially, for him to be there. The question is: would it be easier in the long run on your PMA and your heart?
People differ in opinions on whether it's best to live together or apart during LRT. I think it depends on the "case." If you can effectively DB while he's in the house - in other words, if you're strong enough to get your own, personal groove back while he's having an unrepentant A right in your face, day-in and day-out - then I don't see a down-side to him staying in the house. Like you said, then he could see your 180s far more often than if you're living separately.
I think, however, most people are not strong enough to handle that, even if they try to convince themselves they are. I don't even think I would have been. I actually liked (relatively speaking) living separately from my H while he was in his A. The times he was gone allowed me down-time to decompress. I had time and space to fall apart when I needed to. I didn't have to be "on my game" all the time. Does that sound like I was "acting" in front of him? It does. And I was. I was acting in front of him the way I saw myself when I could finally and completely drop the rope. I was acting like the person I wanted to be until I could actually become that girl, which I knew would take time. I was able to find myself a little more when my H wasn't here. And when he was here, I had the strength to get up, take good care of myself, look my best, be neighborly-friendly ... and then walk away, on the way to my own big plans that he didn't have a right to know a thing about.
And as I walked away, I felt good. I felt strong. I began remembering who I was and what I was made of. So that when H left to go back to OW, I still felt a little stronger than I did the time before. And eventually, I grew willing to walk away completely because I realized, well, I could. And I could be happy.
And that's when everything started changing.
I don't think you should ASK your H to leave. You are very smart to stay in your bed and set him up in a different part of the house to sleep. You don't have to tell him that's what you're doing. Just set it up, and once he's home, continue with your personal nighttime routine as normal. When it's time to go to bed, cheerfully wish him a goodnight, go to your room and shut and lock the door. Have his accommodations set up, wherever he's going to sleep, before he even gets home.
That's the long answer. And it's not really an answer. But hopefully it provides some things for you to consider.
And listen, Nt, make sure you are not leaving this site up on your phone or computer while H is in town, okay? Delete all traces on your computer and/or phone. If H sees it, he's going to accuse you of trying to manipulate him. And it WOULD NOT be good.
Train,
If I don't talk to him about our R how can I give the speech that Starsky has offered?
"But more importantly, you do NOT want to communicate endless patience. Instead of "I will wait for you," it's best to say "I won't live in an open marriage. I don't want a divorce, but neither will I allow myself and our family to be disrespected like this. You need to know that, and you need to know that I won't wait forever. We both have some big decisions to make."
My H is not the jealous type. Never has been so I don't know if going out with friends and telling him to not wait up for me would actually have any impact. Last time I did that he started sleeping in the spare room. So it had the opposite effect.
He's told me to go out and date. Probably to make himself feel better about what he's doing. He might like that I'm moving on with my life.
Nt, DR says to start with a beginner's mind.
I can't speak for Starsky, but he is who advised me during my H's A, and I've read years worth of his "stuff." I struggled with when and how to drop my "truth darts" and my "speeches" when my H was wayward, too. I always thought I was just supposed to pick a time and do it. Wrong. There will be a time and a place for you to state your non-negotiable core beliefs and boundaries with your H. But "grand pronouncements" aren't the way to do it. Initiating R talks is THE biggest DB no-no. Your H will open the door for you to express your boundary. You just need to wait for that time so that it's natural. And don't state a boundary unless you're willing to put teeth in it and stand by it. And don't repeat a boundary because that only weakens it.
My H is not the jealous type. Never has been so I don't know if going out with friends and telling him to not wait up for me would actually have any impact.
Please look back at what I wrote. I didn't say I thought it would impact HIM. In fact, I pointed out that YOU cannot change his mind. *Anything* I'm advising you to do is to help YOU and your PMA, which MIGHT end up being attractive to your H. (He's certainly going to be more attracted to an upbeat, happy you than one who is moping and criticizing and cornering him with grand pronouncements.) The more and longer you practice living your own life and having fun, the more authentic it will become and the more you will live your way back into YOU. And that YOU might end up re-attracting your H.
He might like that I'm moving on with my life.
Again, this isn't to get a reaction out of him. That's trying to control him. And you can't control anyone but yourself.
I *will* add this: A lot of times, based on what I've seen, a cheater will amp-up their detachment in proportion to the amount of pressure they feel from the LBS. So if you don't pressure him, chances are he might back-off a little on being so defiant and reactive. You getting out of the house some is one way to take pressure off of him WHILE giving you something to do to keep your mind off things.
Maybe he will like you "moving on with your life." (Odds are that he will at first and as long as he's in the fog of an A.) But what are your alternatives, Nt? I only see one: NOT moving on with your life and waiting around at home, smothering him, staying in his face, waiting for him to "pick you." And I hope we would both agree that that's not going to move your relationship ANYWHERE good. And even worse, it's not going to put YOU in a good place. We can only take so much rejection. And the more available you are to him right now, the more he's going to reject you. He might throw you bones. But he's saving the meat for OW.
He doesn't have a reason to change that dynamic now. Wanna know why? Because he has you BOTH.
Should I stop inviting him out for bike rides, meeting up with friends and family, and shopping? Do I stop acting like a friend with him? Should I offer to pick him up at the airport?
Technical question: my envelope is flashing for private message but when I click on it it says private message is disabled. How do I get my private message?
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Thanks Cadet.
Good to know
Should I stop inviting him out for bike rides, meeting up with friends and family, and shopping? Do I stop acting like a friend with him? Should I offer to pick him up at the airport?
Also, it would be more difficult to show I'm GAL and doing 180s if he isn't here to see it.
What's the consensus about moving out vs separated living?
GAL helps show H that you are moving on but the main point is to show you that you can move on with or without him. Its to help you cope with the loss and find yourself. Its a huge distraction that lets you live in the good of your life instead of dwell on the uncontrollable negatives.
People differ in opinions on whether it's best to live together or apart during LRT. I think it depends on the "case." If you can effectively DB while he's in the house - in other words, if you're strong enough to get your own, personal groove back while he's having an unrepentant A right in your face, day-in and day-out - then I don't see a down-side to him staying in the house. Like you said, then he could see your 180s far more often than if you're living separately.
Yes, very difficult but its possible to do. It takes a huge toll on your sanity being right in the middle of it, where you can see certain things. I dont think anyone in the very beginning just after BD could do it. It something that just develops after enough suffering has taken place.
Should I stop inviting him out for bike rides, meeting up with friends and family, and shopping? Do I stop acting like a friend with him? Should I offer to pick him up at the airport?
I would say most of this is pursuing, so stop it. If he can handle destroying his M and having an A, he can handle his transportation from the airport. Its would be one thing if he asked, but don't go out of your way to offer doing it.
You don't want to act cold to him, just be friendly. There is a distinction between being a friend and friendly. You want to have those friendly encounters where you can chat(if they come up) but you don't want to be doing small talk with him whiles hes talking about his GF. Theirs a balance that needs to be found. For right now focus on being the friendly neighbor and working on you.
More importantly you need to begin to move forward with your life. You have some great advice above on where you should be, re-read it. If we can see the neediness your H can see it also and he does know you will do anything to keep him.
Thanks Fogg. I've re-read everything a few times.
I'm reading a book about Codependency. Hopefully it'll help me to detach and GAL. It's tough. We've been together 28 years and grew up with each other.
As far as living together, i'm still on the fence. We've been doing it since the BD which was 6 months ago. We get along great otherwise and he's been discreet about his phone calls with her so it's not in my face.
If he moves to the basement, there will be more separation than if he's in the spare room. On the other hand, he may tell me he's moving out when he gets home. Everything is up in the air right now.
As far as living together, i'm still on the fence. We've been doing it since the BD which was 6 months ago. We get along great otherwise and he's been discreet about his phone calls with her so it's not in my face.I'm confused. Earlier today, you were asking about how you could bring up the "speech" (per Starsky) about not being willing to live in an open M when I had told you not to bring up relationship talks. But this ^^^ sounds like you ARE willing to live in an open M, as long as your H carries out his A in your basement or where you can't see it.
Can you clarify?
Why are you concerned at all about delivering the "speech" about not being willing to live in an open M when, in fact, it appears as though you ARE willing to live in one?
The OW lives across the country. I can only do what I can when it comes to getting him to leave her. If I give him the "speech" then he will know where I stand and hopefully in time will stop seeing the OW.
BTW, he has no intention of leaving her. He thinks he loves her and has found his soulmate. I know that the affair has to run it's course. He or she will realize sooner or later that they can't keep it up long distance.
Is it better that I not give the "speech" or any relationship talks at all?
What your H wants right now is irrelevant. He's thinking like a drug addict, with - thanks to his affair - the very same chemicals pumping through his brain as people who are hooked on drugs. Google it. OW is his drug. You can't talk sense into a drug addict, and you can't talk sense into someone who's in an A.
It's truly that simple.
If you want the best chance of saving your M, you first have to save yourself. I've given you plenty of tips on how to do this - or how to "fake it 'til you make it." It's not guaranteed to save your M. But it WILL help save YOU. And once you save yourSELF, there's a chance you will eventually re-attract your H ... once he's done with OW ... *IF* you still want him then.
I can't say it many more ways than that.
It is best that you do not *initiate* ANY relationship talks. If HE brings your relationship up, and if you find a natural segue to say it, THEN, in a firm voice, say *only* what Starsky pitched to you ... and walk away.
But throw the "no open M" boundary ONLY if you're truly willing and able to enforce it. If you're willing to continue allowing your H to talk to his girlfriend on the phone - even if he's in your basement when he does it - then don't tell him you're not willing to live in an open M. As long as you're willing to let him talk intimately with another woman, then you ARE willing to live in an open M. And there's a big chance your M is going to suffer and (eventually) end because of it. If you allow your H to have a "secret" girlfriend, he can't possibly also meet your needs. And he's allowing another woman to meet HIS. And that's the beginning of the end of a M.
It's not my place to tell you what kind of M you want. But if you want your H to yourself, then ... well ... don't share him. If he insists that you have to, then ... well ... start to move on with your life. You'll eventually find a man who is willing to be yours and yours alone. And MAYBE, somewhere along the way, your H will wake up and want to start the long road to recover the M you're both currently in. Whether you will still be willing to do that will be up to YOU and where you are on your path at that time.
Maybe spend some time with yourself to decide what your core, personal boundaries are. As long as your H is inviting another woman into his life, you'll be living in an open M. It's up to you to decide whether that's something you can live with or not.
I'm confused. I thought most of the people on here have spouses who are having affairs. I can only say what I can say or do what I can do. I can't force him to leave the OW. If I say to him it's her or me he'll choose her because like you said he's addicted to her.
Earlier you told me not to tell him to leave the house. What are my other options? I don't want to live in an open marriage.
I'm not sure what your question is.
He's going to continue his A as long as he wants to.
You stay in the house. You sleep in your room. You live your life. You have some fun. You act like he's not even there when he's there except to share a "hello" in passing, like you would a neighbor. ***If HE mentions your relationship**, you tell him that the current state of your relationship is not what you wanted but that you've finally realized what you deserve in life, and you're SURE you don't want to live in an open M, and neither WILL you live in one. And then you go on about your life. You don't meet his needs. You don't cook for him or clean for him or have sex with him or validate his feelings. You go out and have some fun. You stop worrying about how every step you take may make or break your relationship with him. You stay in your house. You sleep in your room. And you LIVE YOUR LIFE. And let him live his. And then, in time, watch him fall on his face.
If he wants to move out? He can. He's a big boy. But meanwhile, go live your life and don't meet ANY of his needs. Let OW have that job for a while. And let's see how she stacks up.
Ok thanks Train.
I will GAL, detach, be mysterious, treat him like a neighbour, not have sex with him, not meet his needs, won't validate him, won't cook for him or clean his clothes. Don't worry, I'm getting all that
It's just the smaller details I get stuck on. I really appreciate your input.
Picked H up from the airport. Boy was he pi$$ed at me. He was snippy about something I should have taken care of while he was away. I asked him if that was going to be his attitude towards me now. He said that he was angry that I'd emailed his Mom and that I snooped into his email account.
-I told him I wouldn't talk with her anymore about us and that it was a mistake.
-I told him I understand why he'd be angry about me going into his email that it was a huge violation and that I'd be angry too.
He then said that his relationship with the OW was nobody else's business but his. Had to bite my tongue on that one.
Once we got home, he was ok. I was in our bedroom on the bed and he came and sat down and we talked for a bit. He was listening intently to what I was saying and dare I say with affection in his eyes. This stuff so confusing!
NtGvUp,
how are you? How are things with your H?