Off we go again on another thread! Thankfully not quite as regular as a few weeks ago.
Hi Toots (from previous thread)
I managed to shrug my shoulders when W arrived home. I said nothing and put on my best DB face. W never mentioned it either (she had received a copy in the same postal delivery) but she was spoiling for a fight, for some reason. Again, busied myself with the kids/washing. By 1700 hrs, W had calmed down again.
My theory is, going away to her parents house with the kids for two weeks, I haven't made a fuss or made any attempt to stop her in any way shape or form (last month, I would have bricked up the front door!) and that, somehow, has annoyed her. That is with my best DB hat on. W hasn't started packing yet, or doing anything like lists of things to take with her, which, again, is unusual.
Happy with myself that I didn't start a fight about L letter - a few weeks ago I would have been consumed by rage all week.
Week 16
If you've been along for the ride, thanks for coming on the rollercoaster from hell. If you're just looking in, thanks.
16 weeks in. That is a long time to be fighting the rebellion that W has been displaying. In the past two weeks, W has started to calm down and is showing very limited signs of planning for a life together. Note the word limited; it's hardly hearts and flowers.
Following on from yesterday, W asked me about L letter. I replied that she said she was going to stop all that. W said that the L had sent it on their own back! So, let's see, your client tells you to desist, yet the L carries on regardless. No wonder there is a desire to reform legal aid in the UK.
W has asked that I send the L a letter telling her to stop. As W is her client, surely she should listen to her? Anyway, once I said I would write, W calmed down remarkably and asked if I would call off my L. As she's been in the fog, she hasn't been listening; my L backed out weeks ago and I told her that. Is she hearing anything I say? Sandi2, do you have the answer?
So W and the kids have gone away for two weeks. Kids very upset, but I had to keep my DB face on and not show my emotion. W said she would ring when she got to her parents to let me know she'd got there OK, before correcting herself and saying the 'kids got there OK'. Hmmmm....I noticed that slip up, but didn't let on.
So, lots of clues that W might turn around. Two weeks is a long time. When she returns, I'll be looking my best, smelling the best (my W likes me to wear Paco Rabane..off to the shops) and the house will be pristine from top to bottom.
Journalling.
W has called twice. First time to say she had got to her parents OK. Light conversation about traffic jams, speed restrictions etc. then put the kids on. Second was to let the kids say goodnight.
Nice to hear. Would like more. Patience.
If you're reading this, and not on the forum, but looking for advice, you'll have to learn patience and not overbearing your spouse/frightening them away with 'I love you's etc.'. Then join in the forum.
Patience........I find that as hard as detaching. Good to see small steps, Huddy.
Do you think I should call H to say I arrived at my mums?
Patience........I find that as hard as detaching. Good to see small steps, Huddy.
Do you think I should call H to say I arrived at my mums?
Nah....
Hi Smoothy
No. You're the LBS in this situation (as I am the LBS in my sitch), so, it's up to your H to call you and ask.
Patience, is the second thing you need to get good at after controlling your emotions.
W calls to tell me that somebody wants to view the house. Apparently I'm 'allowed' to do viewings whilst W is away! Blood boiling! Couldn't resist a 'Thanks' in reply. Annoyed with myself for letting that one slip.
Spoke to kids. S is screaming the place down (W says he's tired after journey - funny, he wasn't screaming when I spoke to him yesterday) and D says she isn't having a good time. Oops, looks like it's not going to plan for her.
Letter sent to W's L to desist, as requested by W. Seems a very strange way to deal with your client by ignoring the request, but W told me she had done it by phone, so it may have got missed.
Wouldn't mind a vet coming by and reviewing the sitch and giving a viewpoint.
It's odd she asked you to write a letter to her lawyer. I'm no lawyer, but I can't imagine that bets is going to listen to you. "Excuse me. Can you please stop suing me? Your client asked me to write this. I swear! Kthxbye."
Anyway, keep going - looks like you've at least stopped making things worse.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly, however, W showed me her copy of the letter and the L is pushing my W to carry on, wanting a 'note of agreement'. As W is on legal aid, the L makes even more money by sending letters out. So far, that's 15 letters at £120 each (x2 as they send copies to W as well) making a grand total of £3600.
Making things worse? So far. Let's see what happens after two weeks with the SIL.
You are so right that patience is so important. But it is so hard to be patient when it is a roller coaster & you get some signs that things might be going in a positive direction. Then things go down hill & you feel like you are starting all over again!
What made you decide to take your ring off? My H took his off about a week ago. That was a hard one to deal with for me.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly, however, W showed me her copy of the letter and the L is pushing my W to carry on, wanting a 'note of agreement'. As W is on legal aid, the L makes even more money by sending letters out. So far, that's 15 letters at £120 each (x2 as they send copies to W as well) making a grand total of £3600.
Making things worse? So far. Let's see what happens after two weeks with the SIL.
Your wife's L will ignore you as it wasn't you that instructed them. If you W wants this to stop is has to be her that does this. Why don't you type up the letter, but using your W's name and if she still wants to send it you can hand it to her for her to sign. You can even post it.
Strange, my WW wanted me to contact companies to change things around. I had to reminder her that I wasn't their client so can't do anything. Nothing to do with L's though.
Hi Hope
I took my ring off to try and show distance. W had taken hers off and she was threatening to take the kids away, so I was really making a point and anger to boot. After so many years, the imprint is welded into my finger. It may have been a mistake on my part (somebody said to me that by removing the ring you were saying the M was no longer viable - don't know?) but I think that M is dead, if W comes out of the fog for real, I think I'd like to re-do vows with a new ring.
Yes, I can see hope, but it seems sketchy so far. That's when your patience gets stretched to breaking point. My tip; STFU and let it pass. That takes months to learn that one, but as the LBS, you have to remember the 0/50 rule - see sandi2's tips.
Hi NDY
Yes, expect L to ignore me. Bizarre as it seems, W said to me 'she won't stop sending the letters until you just write to acknowledge' - what? Your client says stop and you continue. I have pointed this out, but W seemed to think, despite me telling her weeks ago, that I still had an L engaged. Once I told her I didn't retain the L her mood changed instantly.
That fog seems to stop thought processes and hearing and rationality.
Hi Hope
I took my ring off to try and show distance. W had taken hers off and she was threatening to take the kids away, so I was really making a point and anger to boot. After so many years, the imprint is welded into my finger. It may have been a mistake on my part (somebody said to me that by removing the ring you were saying the M was no longer viable - don't know?) but I think that M is dead, if W comes out of the fog for real, I think I'd like to re-do vows with a new ring.
Yes, I can see hope, but it seems sketchy so far. That's when your patience gets stretched to breaking point. My tip; STFU and let it pass. That takes months to learn that one, but as the LBS, you have to remember the 0/50 rule - see sandi2's tips.
That makes sense. I have thought of taking mine off because of where we are at but then I wonder if I'd just be trying to get a reaction out of him. So at this point, I've kept mine on. I just might get to the point where i no longer want to wear it & not just to prove a point. We shall see.
Yes, definitely trying to remember the 0/50 rule. When my H put his arm around me in the bed and then held my hand, I was thinking, "please let this be a good sign, please let this mean we are on our way up. But wait... how much of behavior am I suppose to believe?!" I already had been trying to focus on not believing much of anything he said (sometimes easier than others) but the behavior part throws me. Now I've thought of telling him not to touch me unless he is wanting to work on the marriage. He is definitely playing with my emotions.
Hi hope
I'm not an expert here or anything but if your H is having an affair I'd put a stop to any intimacy. Just my view on it.
Woah Hope!
He's still wanting intimacy, as well as wanting away? NO - NO - NO. That's cake eating. You'll see it all over the forum. That has to stop until he wants to put you and R first. If their is OW involved, what kind of things is he bringing home?
Me and W were in separate beds by day 4 (her choice), and there is no OM (afaik)in my situation. That's harder than a ring. Intimacy means more.
Had to contact W's phone to say goodnight to the kids. Both me and SD spoke briefly. W then asked SD to put me back on the phone as she then proceeded to rant at me about the letter she asked me to send to L. I knew it was a mistake to call her, but I have no other way of talking to kids.
No idea where this spewfest come from. Just listened to her rant (I'd had a big gulp on STFU smoothies) and when W had finished her rant, I just finished with a 'have you finished?' to which W replied 'bye' and I hung up.
Hmmm....so, has being at 'the commend bunker' already got her to start changing her mind back to three weeks ago?
Ok dude. Not an expert but...
Re read your response to your W. Think about it if that was you getting that response. Think about how you would feel. Is that being antagonising or what? Is that a 180? She's at command central and she comes off the phone feeling justified that leaving you is the right thing? Come on mate. Doing what works?
From now on id advise that any and all communications are positive. I'm not saying roll over. Far from it it just mean have your DB hat on then speaking to her. Easier said than done I know but think about the goal.
Huddy,
I am confused...trying to swim through fake heavy syrup trying to figure out what letter is being talked about here? What was the letter for and for what purpose?
Hi NDY
I have been positive throughout. Listening to a two minute spewfest seemed like she was behaving like a teenager. When my SD was a teenager, and was being a pain, when she'd finished her rants, I use to say 'have you finished', which would take the heat out of the situation and finish the tantrum. Wrong tactic?
Hi Wonka
Before W left, I received another L letter, despite what W had said about stopping the L etc. W asked me to reply to the L as the L wouldn't stop the letters without me replying. I protested that the L wasn't mine, so I shouldn't be the one to ask them to stop. W said she'd sent it 'off her own back'. I sent a letter outlining that my W had asked her to stop etc. W's rant was to tell me that she hadn't said that to me, blah!
W can't remember what she has said or done, where I can. It says in the book that if you keep entertaining the behaviour, it'll continue. I just wasn't going to be verbally abused down the phone, so just put the phone down whilst she was ranting and then asked if she'd finished at the end of the call.
So what's the context of the letter?
Hi NDY
Letter as sent/as requested by W;
With reference to your letter dated 10 July 2015, and all previous communication with me, my wife has informed me that she made a telephone call to your office two weeks ago, and left a message for you to desist working on any form of agreement appertaining to this matter. My wife also informs me that your most recent letter has not been sent at her behest and that it has been sent off ‘your own back’. This is the bit my W can't remember now, despite only talking to me about it on Saturday!
As my wife’s request has not been carried out, I write to inform you that we are making our own, private, arrangements with regard to sale of property proceeds.
If you wish to check any of the contents of this letter with my wife, you can contact her on her mobile telephone number, which I understand you have.
I do not intend, or expect from you, any further communication with you regarding this matter.
What was the L's letter about?
L letter wants to make an 'agreement' about what happens with surplus from house, once sold. Have told W there is no need for that but L is pushing her. I think the L being on Legal Aid is keeping this pot boiling.
How odd. I don't think L's are allowed to continue if you instruct them to stop.
Unless W is telling me porkies. Then I look like an idiot.
Remember the fog. My WW has several times forgot things which isn't normal for her.
Hi hope
I'm not an expert here or anything but if your H is having an affair I'd put a stop to any intimacy. Just my view on it.
Woah Hope!
He's still wanting intimacy, as well as wanting away? NO - NO - NO. That's cake eating. You'll see it all over the forum. That has to stop until he wants to put you and R first. If their is OW involved, what kind of things is he bringing home?
Me and W were in separate beds by day 4 (her choice), and there is no OM (afaik)in my situation. That's harder than a ring. Intimacy means more.
There has not been any intimacy in the past 5 weeks... one night he put his hand on my arm. Then last week he put his arm around me & then held my hand. But there is definitely nothing else. After this last time & then him telling me later that he did it while he was sleeping & then when he woke up he didn't want to move it b/c it would be hateful (I call bs... he wouldn't have moved to holding my hand if that was the case), I decided if he did try to touch me again, I'd tell him that as long as we are "separated" (his words to a friend- basically separated while living together), he didn't need to touch me. But I admit this wasn't my first response to him touching me. It would have been my response if he proceeded further though- I'd already wanted to make that a sticking point but he hasn't tried to be that intimate.
Hi Hope
That is good. It sounded like you were sharing bed etc. and that your H was getting what he wanted.
So, W texts SD and asks 'has dad been OK while I've been away?'. Why doesn't she just ask me?
Don't concern yourself about why she doesn't just ask. That's for her and not you. Anyway I hope you took your time answering that txt?
Wasn't to me. It was to SD and she replied. Watching The Enforcer later. Dirty Harry was on the other night. Probably not a GAL activity, but it gives me some pleasure!
It doesn't need to be all sky dives and bungee jumps. Watching a film you enjoy is still GAL IMO.
Morning
Yes watched part of film, but went to bed. Tired and I bought new boots yesterday that have brought out blisters the size of dinner plates! If anybody has any remedies for this - please share!
Feet ache aside, NC from W at all yesterday to me, but did talk to SD and asked about me and how I was. I would like to talk to the kids, but to do that, I have to contact W. Personally, I think that might be a mistake to call her. Any thoughts?
When I'm in that situation I usually txt to ask what time is convenient to speak to the kids. Then, if she answers ask to speak to which ever of the kids is available. It's important to sound cheery though or it comes across as you being in a huff.
That's an idea. I'm always cheery!
It works for me. After a while she now gets S9 to call using her phone when he doesn't have his available. I know it's him. And when she calls my phone I immediately hand the phone to S9 and let him answer.
So, I called W tonight to talk to the kids. Brief convo and then I hung up. Don't know if this is the right path. W hasn't broke down the door to call me, so, although I know the answer, as we had some really limited improvement before she went away, should I make more effort or just leave her alone?
I think the answer is yes. As far as I can tell you need to give her the space to miss you. Until that starts to happen just leave her alone. Look, she's away at command central so all she is doing right now is thinking and talking about your sitch, right? So give her the space she needs. Don't push anything. Keep it light and friendly. Chillax.
I know. I just needed a bit of a check as I did start thinking about the kids last night when I was on my own.
No GAL for me though. I managed to buy a new pair of boots the other day, and those pesky blisters have burst, so my heels have no skin on! Ouch! So, feet up watching catch up on the TV. I am going away on Wednesday next week for a day, so, looking forward to that.
Week 17
Just journalling. Nothing really exciting to say.
NC from W over the weekend, so far. None expected. I'm kind of relaxed that W is probably talking about me behind my back to SIL/MIL.
On my own in the house. All the washing done. Ironing to do later. House clean and tidy. I'd cut the grass, but it's raining. Another job for later.
GAL involves some movies as my feet are still hurting like mad! Can't get my shoes on at the minute - bit swollen.
Feeling OK, although missing kids and W. Got to keep going with the plan.
Keep the PMA up my friend. These are the testing times, when you are on your own with time on your hands. This is why keeping occupied is so important. Be cool.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hello Huddy,
I haven’t been on the board much this week, so I’m sorry if it seems like a life-time ago that I checked in with you.
NDY "hit the nail right on the head" with that post!
Keeping as active as possible has really helped me. I pray you can do the same, and just take things one day at a time.
Wishing you well.
Your friend,
Bob
Hi Bob
I have a look at your sitch, but it seems you're getting loads of good advice.
Little bit down today. No reason really. Suppose the lack of contact from W is hurting. Watched a programme on TV about a couple who have been separated for seven months selling their home and moving on. No hope for them. I guess that was not the best show to tune in to!
Try and stay busy. Look mate. My WW moved out. I have seen her once in 2 months. It gets better. Drop the rope. Easier said than done but you will feel better for it.
Nightmare back last night. Just a bit down. Couple of texts from SD over weekend. Nothing really that couldn't wait until Tuesday when she's back, but I think W will have asked her to check in on me. The responses were worded in a way that W would use. I'm talking to our two cats. Weird, right? I haven't seen another human since Friday. Would have gone out, but my feet hurt so much! Strapped up like a good 'un today.
It's SD's birthday today, so will text to wish her happy birthday. Planned a Pizza Hut tea for her tomorrow, so that is something to look forward to.
We all get those day mate. It'll be ok. You just need to get out and about. Some human interaction.
Hi NDY
At work today. Trip to chemist for more foot bandages! Feel a bit better. Even managed to give my 'valued' input to a couple of newbies that have arrived on the scene.
There sitch is the same as ours, in varied degrees. Now I am convinced that it is implanted in their brains when the are born!
The cats didn't want to talk, by the way. Ha ha.
Lol
Yea, I hear ya. Ive jumped in on a few noobs as well. Pity, we all come here looking for solutions and when there isn't a magic wand it's another punch in the gut.
Just telling people they will eventually feel better isn't enough when your back at the start. It's too raw, too surreal. But over time you get the hang of it.
The aim, right now, is for the 'new starters' not to perform the same mistakes, and then spend weeks trying to get back from that situation.
Tell me about it. I wish I found this place on BD night. I made just about every foolish mistake there is. The only thing I did not do is beg.
Every now and again I re read Sandi2's posts on the WW. Just to keep myself in check with what I'm dealing with.
Yeah, had a look at those again on Sunday. Kick in the backside really. Got to keep focussed!
Don't we all wish we'd found this resource on BD day? There again, we didn't expect BD, so why would we look?
Nobody prepares you for that. Nobody.
I heard another snippet the other week from a friend who said WW had told them our R had been fizzling out for years. Wow, just Wow. This same person (a man by the way) was also commenting how when we were at their house (which used to be a lot) we were the perfect couple, stealing kisses and hugs when we though nobody was looking.
Like they say, believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they do.
Yeah, heard that line as well - 'it's been a long time coming' - has it? News to me. In fact news to everybody who was shocked when W did what she has done with most people (except her family) hoping we get it 'sorted out'.
All variations on a theme, sadly. Just part of the script for the play from hell. Programme in the seventies called 'Armchair Thriller' - this is one of those alright!
Hardest thing you've ever done? You better believe it.
Quick call from W to advise we have a viewer booked in for tonight. Sounded quite friendly, but I don't don't know if she is just 'friending' me, or is really reconsidering her position. It was nice to talk to W though. Spoke to kids as well and W talked after I'd finished talking to them.
Hi Bob
I have a look at your sitch, but it seems you're getting loads of good advice.
Little bit down today. No reason really. Suppose the lack of contact from W is hurting. Watched a programme on TV about a couple who have been separated for seven months selling their home and moving on. No hope for them. I guess that was not the best show to tune in to!
Hi Huddy
Yes, I am getting good advice. In hindsight, no, it probably wasn't the best show to watch. I hope you are feeling better today.
As NDY suggested, try to stay busy. GAL has REALLY helped me.
Hang in there, mate. You
can do this.
Bob
Hi Bob
Thanks for asking, feeling better, apart from those pesky blisters!
SD back today, so Pizza Hut tea for us. SD let slip that W is coming back from her parents a day earlier than she said. W hasn't told me, so I don't know if that is a positive or not.
Hold on to my hat. GAL activity tomorrow, as I'm planning a field trip to Brighton (that's a large seaside city on the south coast of the UK, about 430 miles from here). Up and back in the day (a long day), but it uses up a free flight voucher I had.
Back from GAL. Sd told me that W is having er air done etc. for her return. I've been for a cut as well! Hear's hoping.
She's getting her hair done specifically for coming home? Ok, that could be good but no expectations.
Back from GAL. Sd told me that W is having er air done etc. for her return. I've been for a cut as well! Hear's hoping.
Zero expectations...remember? Be a cool cat when you see W.
Hi Guys
No expectations. She might be 'having a new do' and coming home early, but she hasn't told me and their is no indication that she has changed her mind. Hey ho!
So, slight air of trepidation as W is expected to return with the kids sometime tomorrow. Communication in the past two weeks has been minimal, so, I'm not expecting her to walk back in full of remorse and say she wants to stay.
W has had two weeks with her parents and sister, so I'm guessing they will have 'worked' on her. Don't know how to really deal with it all. The house is clean, tidy and all chores have been done, she just has to walk back in.
Just a journaling piece on my part. Nervous. Hmmm.
Those expectations and hopes seem to be creeping in despite your best efforts. Normal I guess but regardless how the return goes you need to stick to the game plan. If doesn't go well that changes nothing. If goes well don't be over enthusiastic.
Good luck. Hoping the best for you.
Roiste is right. Don't pin any expectations on tomorrow. Just play it cool and don't over think it.
No expectations. Just been playing some conversations in my head though. I guess if W says something rough, I just shrug my shoulders on the outside.
Got my shake and vac for the carpet, home in a few hours to do final prep for W's return.
Mate, she's not the queen. Are you always this house proud? How can the house be so tidy if your so busy GALing (wink wink)?
Besides. Remember the rules? If it's normal for you to do all the house work (which I suspect is true) you're still providing the husbandry services, even though you got the sack from that job.
Just a thought.
Husbandry services. Maybe I should market that as a business.
House is tidy anyway. Just wanted it to smell fresh and clean. It does, but I'm using the same basis as if it was to re-attract to me - look good, smell good, look confident.
Is that not a kind of take on Rule 8?
Just a thought. Could you be out when she gets back. Not waiting around. Again just a thought.
Just a thought. Could you be out when she gets back. Not waiting around. Again just a thought.
Had thought about that one Roiste, but I haven't seen the kids for two weeks and that's pretty important in the overall scheme of things.
NDY
Rule 8 is about buying gifts etc. So, I guess getting the house in perfect order is a gift? Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but SD thought it would be a good idea. Again, thinking of the kids and how they don't want this train wreck, as SD has been getting 'sly' info, this maybe something that W has said I don't do.
Mind reading again!
Well if it's something you don't normally do and it's a source of resentment then go for it.
Even turning up 30 minutes after her is enough to have her think about it and has no affect on kids.
Plus if she doesn't let you know exactly when she'll be back are you to wait around?
If she is having second thoughts and the hair do is for your benefit, her knowing you are not just waiting around may be further food for thought. Sometimes you need to look to the big picture/goal.
Best of luck whatever you decide
Thanks folks. Ridiculously nervous - why?
NDY - she made a swipe comment about six weeks ago saying 'I didn't appreciate her and what I do at home' - all bullsh1t, but, if flowers in a vase and lemon smelling carpets show her that I do, and SD has said this is a good idea, then even if it tanks, it'll look and feel fresh for me.
Nothing of what they say and 50% of what they do...
I like roiste's idea of not being there when they return
I really did think about being out. I don't know what time W is coming back, so I don't really want to be out of the house all day. I've got stuff that I need to do for myself in the house. Ironically, I did have a GAL activity planned, but the mate I was going with has pulled out with illness. I'd go to the place on my own, but I have no private transport and there is no public transport (practical anyway) available.
Interestingly this could be part of the problem. My WW complained that I 'never did anything' . Having a dud hang around the place all the time isn't attractive. Just a thought.
Hi NDY
I was up before 8 to get my ironing done etc. I haven't heard from W and she hasn't arrived back yet, so I don't know if her plans have changed. I would call, but I feel that would be a mistake. So, I'm heading off for a bath to freshen up!
Go out for a pint or something. If I were you being out for a bit sounds like the best idea.
Huddy, go out before your W and kids come home. I would start off cool as a cat through out the day, when it drew nearer the time for H to come back to the house I got myself into thinking of situations and my NO expectations turning to lots of it. Now I try to make out it isn't a big deal whether he is home or not except for the days we have scheduled to be with DS.
Put on a happy face but not too enthusiastic.
Morning all
Week 18
Well, W returned with the kids about 20 minutes after my message last night. Great to see the kids, although my disabled S seemed a bit reluctant at first.
No real caring from W. Pleasant enough, but tried to make a big deal of me sleeping in the marital bed whilst she was away. Didn't react. W was tired from long drive and perked up after her bath.
W had a heated exchange with her father on the phone later on. Don't know about what (I was playing with the kids) but I did hear her say 'it's my priorities that come first', so, no idea what that was about, but does confirm everything I knew about her not really wanting to go back to her parents. Nothing mentioned, playing it cool.
However, I had a nightmare last night and on Saturday, which isn't good and I guess that is just my fear coming back. W featured in both (one of them sexual). W has started reading books on the setee (couch) which is something she's never done before.
Next step? I kinda wanted her to come in and make some kind of sweeping statement, one way or the other, but hasn't. W has had her hair and nails done and I don't know if I should comment. She looks great, but if I say something, that would be persuing, right?
Back to sleeping with S. My patience is kind of thin. Sandi2 - where do you think she's heading in the WAS cycle? If she really wanted to go, would she have come back?
More questions than answers really.
Drawn into a fight this morning. Aaaarrrggghhh! From it however, came some nuggets of information. Fight was about her L and the letter that W had asked me to write before she went away. W had tried to bait me two weeks ago, saying I'd 'made it up'. W backed down from this position but claims she needs an agreement so that 'I don't run away with the money'.
I've never given her any reason to think I would do that, so I don't know where she is coming from with this. W however, burst into tears as she was uttering her first sentence. Don't know if that's a good thing or not. I tried to comfort her by touching her arm and she said 'don't manhandle me'. Urgh!
Anyway, she said that 'I'd changed so much' which I retorted and then she said she didn't want to talk. I asked why she had come home and she said she 'had nowhere else to go'. Don't know what's happened about going to her parents.
At this point I had a STFU smoothie and just let the rest of the afternoon pass.
I just can't read this situation. My own fault, but I did say I still loved her, so I've probably restarted the dance. Resolve to go back to 'shrugging'.
Hugs, Huddy.
It is so hard not to get drawn in, went to see a friend today and he told me H is very conflicted but I must (and you too) detach even more. The way I see it I am still too attached to what H does and say. Our Spouses have made their decision, I don't know how much longer I can take this. What I do know is to try not to analyse everything they do. I too have told H I love still love him, It has hurt me more knowing they no longer feel that way and H is adamant about this D.
Ouch
Ok so back to square one. Sandi's rule 11 mate. No ILY talk.
Remember she's also hurting and confused by all of this. Let her come to her own conclusions. Give her space. Get yourself out of the house. You need to not be there. For both your sakes.
Morning all
The thing I don't get, really don't get, is the line 'you've changed so much'. Well, I don't think I have, unless she means since she said IDLYAM. W also said 'you're acting as if nothing is wrong'. Well that's the DB coming through, trying to act confident and happy. I think W would prefer if I was miserable all day long.
So, what's changed. Well, W has been funny since she started 'the change'. She started being cold and angry for no reason, pushing me away. That hurt, so I pulled away a bit and started going out with the guys from work every few months. I still love her, I still want her. I have no reason to cheat or leave. I love the kids and would do anything for her. DB principles say I shouldn't say any of those things. Well, that appears to be true, as it hasn't worked so far, as every time I tell her how much I want her, she pulls further away.
So, how do I act. It seems that being confident and pleasant isn't getting me anywhere other than her pulling away further as well. I know actions speak louder than words and she needs to feel 'loss', but I can't move out to let her feel the pain. I look a lot different from the start of the process, but she hasn't mentioned that either.
I am starting to think this is a 'total loss' and whatever I do is just not getting through. W, through her various nuggets of information through the flack, appears not to trust me anymore with money. I've never given her any reason not to trust me. We've had a joint bank account within a month of getting together and I've never stopped her doing anything she wants to do.
It seems we're back to not talking mode. It's all just getting a bit too much for me, again. I'm getting to the stage where I say to her 'just go then'. In fact I think in the heat of yesterdays' battle, I said that. I also said 'I'm sorry you're unhappy being with me' and 'I'm sorry I'm not good enough for you'. Both ways of underlining what she has said. She replied to neither, other than with silence.
We've got a specialists appointment for our S today, which we both have to attend. Don't know how that's going to go. W has missed an appointment this morning for a hairdressing client. That's not like her at all.
This looks like being another terrible week. Part of this is my fault. I shouldn't have told her I loved her, but she was sobbing at the time and I just wanted to console her. Funny, but once that came out of my mouth, she stopped crying.
Long post - sorry!
Huddy, I don't post on other threads because I am new to this too. So take whatever I say as my opinion and not really advice.
Sorry but I missed the part where you moved out of M bedroom. You should not have moved out
Now that you realise you have been pushing her away do you think you can stop those actions? Anything I could say here are in sandi's rules!
My understanding of the situation is two fold. W is confused and any trying to clarify her thoughts will only push her towardsbeibg sure she wants out. So confused and uncertain is better than sure and finished. Secondly her noticing changes and you been too happy are good signs. Yes she does not like it but it is still good. Keep up your changes and pma .
Huddy,
This is a GOOD thing! Your W has noticed the changes in you. She's not liking it one bit because she feels loss of control over you and is trying to get you back in the same ol' box. She's trying to hammer you back in the circle, but the problem is that you're now a square peg. Ooops.
Keep doing what you've been doing because those changes are FOR YOU..not W.
Afternoon guys
Thanks for stopping by. W made me look like a complete w****r at the specialists this afternoon. Whilst I took my S to the toilet, she spewed her version of events to the doctor so that when I returned, the doctor looked at me like I was a maniac.
At the end of the appointment, she asked me to leave, like some kind of servant, whilst she talked to the doctor. I'm afraid this pushed me too far and I marched down the stairs, put my S in the car and just walked away. I walked for a good couple of miles, getting angrier and angrier about the whole thing, which I had resolved to come home and tell her that we were done and I wanted nothing more to do with her.
When I got back, W had gone to pick S and SD up from the cinema, so there was nobody home. I just sat down, fuming. When W returned, she had the cheek to have a go at me saying 'you can't just walk away from us like that' - funny, but isn't that what you're doing. I told her she had treated me worse that sh1t and that she needs to look in a mirror to see what she has become.
OK, I know I shouldn't have got angry, but she is pushing and pushing. Earlier on in the day she punched me in the chest as I was asking for an answer to a question (about house) that she wouldn't give me. Because I kept asking her, she decided that punching me was the best way out of the situation. It didn't hurt, that's not the point, has it really come to this.
I know everybody has chipped in great advice, and I am so grateful for anybody who is looking in, but I really need one of Sandi2 or Cadet to come by and just let me know where they think this is at. I'm close to just calling it a day and telling her to f*** off. I just don't think I can put up with the abuse much longer.
Huddy,
Calm down. Deep breath.
When you feel that you're being spoken in a disrespectful way or W acts out of utter disrespect, you need to put your foot down and say, "I will not be spoken in this manner. When you are calmer, I am willing to listen to you. We are going to need to be patient with each other so we don't talk past each other or cross over each other."
What was the doctor's appointment for? What was it about? Not sure what's happening right there.
I don't think it was ideal for you to put your son in the car and walk away for a few miles. Your W has a very valid point right there. Use your head! Be the grown up here.
OK, I know I shouldn't have got angry, but she is pushing and pushing. Earlier on in the day she punched me in the chest as I was asking for an answer to a question (about house) that she wouldn't give me. Because I kept asking her, she decided that punching me was the best way out of the situation. It didn't hurt, that's not the point, has it really come to this.
Respect is a two-way street, ya know. It seems you've tried to corner W here and would not back off. What's she supposed to do? You just and to push and push her for an answer. What was the urgency of that question??!! She was frustrated at your lack of respect so she felt that she had to resort to punching you to get her point across. Don't you see this at all??
Walk away and get yourself grounded first before you engage W. Use your head. Calm, cool, and collected. Remember?
Should have explained. Appointment was for my S and his autism. I left S in car as W approached. He wasn't alone, she was at the car door when I walked away.
I need an answer about the house sale that is on going. She won't talk to me about it, but I needed to know. I didn't think I was cornering her, but the arguments seem to have started by her just to goad me. I even told I thought she was enjoying it (no answer).
Calmed down a bit now. I just feel she has come back from her two weeks away, I've practiced NC as much as I can (without alienating kids) and that W is now punishing me for this.
Haven't eaten all day, so maybe I need some carbs. I see what you mean about her losing control, but the nastiness is really hurting.
Wonka's right dude. Calm down. Go for a walk or a pint or something.
I'm close to just calling it a day and telling her to f*** off. I just don't think I can put up with the abuse much longer.
If this means that you are going to LET GO and drop the rope, then I agree.
I would not curse at her though.
And I would not put up with any abuse.
Wonka gave you good advice
Morning all
Thanks for advice. I have calmed down quite a bit. I can see how my actions have got her thinking and she has pulled the rope and I'm still holding on. That's a mistake. I can see I have been in appeasement mode, not really detached. W seems to enjoy having an argument as it helps her to keep her options open.
So, goal setting. I think I have achieved all my original goals apart from detachment. Need to concentrate on that now, but, here's the contradiction factor. W on the phone to somebody last night. In one of her arguments this weekend, she stated she'll be glad when she's gone. Fast forward to the phone call and she says she's 'glad to be back'.
More work to do.
Hi mate
It's not a contradiction at all. Look, I had a really hard time understanding detachment but I get it now. Can't you see that just that one comment where you overheard your WAS shows you ARE still attached?
Detachment means setting your mind in a place where their actions don't affect you or your mood or what you are doing.
Consider the issue with the question you tried to get her to answer. Now we know the outcome wasn't good and the tension is high but how would that same conversation have went back in the good old days even if your WAS wouldn't tell you? Would you have had a fight? Would she have ended up punching your just to get you to STFU? If you did need an answer how would you have communicated this to her without a fight?
Look, I have a lot of outstanding things that need sorted with the WW but the ball isn't in my court. So what do I do? Drink a very long STFU smoothie and get on with my life. Do I let her actions affect me? No, well I try not to at least. This to me is detachment.
Be cool man, just like Clint.
Hi NDY
IN the past, if we'd argued, we'd have very quickly ended up in bed. Fact is, we hardly ever argued and the 'huffy' phase would have lasted less than a day.
I have my STFU smoothies on hand now (Tesco had an offer on!) and I have resolved not to argue or get into a fight. That's going to be hard. I see how she didn't like the NC and the fact I was confident and happy (outside) and that unnerved her and by fighting, she quickly stopped crying and was back on top - in control.
Difficult, but I have more homework to do.
Not only was she in control but her actions (leaving you) are justified. This is the tightrope mate.
Thanks for the heads up on the Tesco offer. I'm running short on supplies :-\
Yes, I see. In her mind, everything is justified and my actions in arguing just amplifies her decision making process.
Yes, pretty much.
Look mate. You need to work out your sitch but in mine it was simple. The PMA didn't bother her and the GAL didn't have any effect on her. But as the guys around here kept pointing out it's not about her. And they were right. Once I finally twigged that it was about me detaching became easier. To her this was fine because she could eat as much cake as she wanted.
Then when I returned to the house? Ah, not so much. Now she was on the warpath. Sandi2 warned me about this so I was prepared because I'd upset her dream world.
And when I stepped up to my boundary regarding her txting OM in my house under my nose? She left, accused me on emotional abuse and instructed a L.
Yip, WW's are incredibly selfish. So be prepared for this.
I have been talking to one of the Director's here at work. He had a very similar experience and in the end he let go. His W, however, returned to say that she had changed her mind. He decided that he couldn't trust her and kept walking. He regrets it to this day.
He told me whatever I do, don't give up, they do come back eventually, keep my patience and just shut up.
In my sitch, I think not being 'needy' etc. has got her thinking. She seemed to like the arguments, really relished them, so, I noticed as soon as I tried to show some caring, the waterworks stopped instantly. Don't know if it's the right effect, but I need to distance myself.
Look at it this way. She has negative feelings about you and your M. She acts negatively (spew, arguments, sniping, cold ...) then you react negatively and that multiplies the overall negativity making it stronger and your wife feels more negative and more sure she is right to want out.
Chin up mate.
If you do decide you have had enough, don't tell W. Actions speak louder than words. Wait until at least next week before deciding. Never decide when emotional. As many have said letting go is not giving up, though often we need to get to the point of giving up to do so.
I don't see this as lost. I understand you
are having a hard time with limbo. Listen to the vets.
Hi Roiste
Yeah, last night I was ready to say I've had enough. Decided to just have my STFU smoothie and calm down for a few days. Want to see how more of my distancing has an effect.
I'm in the mindset now that W is going and I need to start acting as if that is what is going to happen. I know she hasn't got any plans to move out at the moment, but I'm not going to let her know that. Something has 'gone off' at her parents house, I know not what, so that appears to be a non option.
Normally I get a lift from the station to home. Have decided to decline if she asks and I'll just walk, to get some space.
Cadet is going to tell you to start a new thread but let me say if your director is correct, then the important part that I've learned is that they need to goon this journey on their own. Get out of the way and don't try to influence the outcome.