Hi, just joined today and wanted to give an abbreviated story of my situation. I have been married to my h for 12 years and together for 14. We have a nearly 9 year old and a 6 year old.
In Feb. I discovered that my H was cheating on me. I had felt something was going on but wasn't sure exactly what it was. We had moved to a new town about 6 months prior and I was a bit lonely but he was a bit different too. Finally figured out that he had been having an affair (mostly emotional but there was physical too) for 4 months. I was shocked & devastated. After confronting him, it turned out that he had been unhappy in our relationship because he thought I was done with him... I had distanced and was doing lots of things on my own (book club, classes, staying up late every night after he went to bed) & he had actually thought I had cheated on him previously, before we moved. After I cooled down, I attempted to see the other side & admitted to being less than a good wife & attempted to make some changes.
Fast forward 2 weeks & I discover he is still talking to this girl romantically (who he works with as well). I confront him & I think he is nervous now as he takes a whole new approach- gives me access to all his devices & accounts, offers to go to counseling, etc & says he is definitely ending it.
We start counseling & begin to work through all the things that caused me to distance over the years, him to pursue me, and also the trauma from the affair. We were seeing a counselor who used Emotionally Focused Therapy and we were both amazed at the results. It was painful for my h to go through these rough emotions that counseling brought up but it was helping. After about a month, we were really starting to get back on track & had a good understanding of how things went awry. I still had difficulty in the trust area & that came up a lot but we were closer than we had been in a long time.
We worked through somewhere around 18 hours of counseling and my h decided we were done. Our relationship was doing pretty good except for the random surge of emotions I would experience related to the affair (which I didn't always voice in a healthy way). But we had a closeness that we hadn't had since before kids. It was really nice to take care of each other in so many ways. I hadn't realized how much I missed it.
About a month later, my h happened to go onto my computer (which was a first for him) and he saw a message between my sister & I. In it I made fun of him related to something that he had said to the OW (trying to make myself feel better b/c I was still feeling bad about this thing I had read). I also mentioned to her a fear that I had had about my h back when things were not good between us (when I had been trying to figure out what was off) and it put into question his care of our children (cannot say exactly what it was but it was not based on any evidence, he is a fabulous father... I had many fears that came in & out of my mind during the time I was trying to figure out what was going wrong).
So this has been the cause of our major backslide. He has been the angriest I have ever seen him over the content of this email. It has been nearly 3 weeks and he is still so hurt and angry, he refuses to let me back in emotionally/physically. For the first week or so I pursued him pretty hard. Then I backed off & did things intermittently. For about the last week, I've backed off. I finished reading the Divorce Remedy today and I am committing to putting that into place.
If we didn't have kids, he would be out of here. I think he might even still be contemplating divorce. He refuses to go back to counseling & has told me t never ask him to go back again (he feels like the whole counseling thing was so painful & then ended up being a waste because after doing all that and spending all that money, I've just gone and hurt him really badly).
I have great fears that he is back with the OW but am trying to keep calm about it (definitely not voicing any of these fears to him) & not snoop. I have also been trying to keep positive & upbeat as well as giving compliments and showing appreciation (I am horrible at doing this regularly). He is up and down with how he acts... sometimes he is cold, sometimes he is a bit warmer (like maybe how you'd be with an acquaintance), and then sometimes he is just angry and hurtful (usually when we are discussing the matter but this is not often at all now that I am leaving it up to him to address with me).
My big dilemma is this- with the Divorce Busting, it talks some about getting a life, doing things you enjoy in hopes of drawing them back. However, this is what I used to do... back when our relationship went so bad, I withdrew into things that were enjoyable to me. We just spent 18 hours & lots of money dealing with this issue in our marriage because it was my response to the pain I felt in our marriage. So would I go and purposely do something that has been so detrimental to my marriage in the past? So far I have attempted doing this by doing various things with our kids & telling my h that he is welcome to join us. But I really hesitate to get back into book club & other things I did in the past to escape. Any advice?
Also, i do not know what my 180 would be. Would this be a 180 from how I was before we went to counseling? Because I pretty much did a 180 in order to work on our marriage after discovering all our issues after the affair was revealed. Would it be 180 from how I initially acted when he read this hurtful message (I pursued him & tried to apologize, empathize, & get him to work through the issue with me)?
Thank you for reading and thanks for any advice you can provide! I am feeling so desperate ... this has been the worst year of my life.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you! I have read the DB book and am on board to do what I need to do to make healthy choices and stay positive and hopeful.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Sorry you are here, but this place is full of great people, the more you read the better acquainted you will become.
my h happened to go onto my computer (which was a first for him) and he saw a message between my sister & I. In it I made fun of him related to something that he had said to the OW (trying to make myself feel better b/c I was still feeling bad about this thing I had read). I also mentioned to her a fear that I had had about my h back when things were not good between us
What did the message say? so we get a better understanding of why he says he is angry
Hope - I'm sorry you are here, but you are among friends.
My question to you - you said your H decided that you guys were done with counseling. Have you ACTUALLY forgiven him?
Sorry you are here, but this place is full of great people, the more you read the better acquainted you will become.
my h happened to go onto my computer (which was a first for him) and he saw a message between my sister & I. In it I made fun of him related to something that he had said to the OW (trying to make myself feel better b/c I was still feeling bad about this thing I had read). I also mentioned to her a fear that I had had about my h back when things were not good between us
What did the message say? so we get a better understanding of why he says he is angry
Yes! I have disguised the book w/ a cover from another book & keep it put away. I have also cleared this site from my history & intend to only visit on my private web browser from here on out.
Sorry you are here, but this place is full of great people, the more you read the better acquainted you will become.
my h happened to go onto my computer (which was a first for him) and he saw a message between my sister & I. In it I made fun of him related to something that he had said to the OW (trying to make myself feel better b/c I was still feeling bad about this thing I had read). I also mentioned to her a fear that I had had about my h back when things were not good between us
What did the message say? so we get a better understanding of why he says he is angry
I cannot really say the specifics... but it was very hurtful. And of course in his mind, he made it out to be bigger than it really was (this fearful thought of mine).
Hope - I'm sorry you are here, but you are among friends.
My question to you - you said your H decided that you guys were done with counseling. Have you ACTUALLY forgiven him?
I was working to forgive him I I think I had made some good progress. However, it did consume me at some moments and this is when I would not act in the healthy ways we had learned to deal with it in counseling. I felt like we could have used more counseling but there was monetary concerns so I let him make that decision to stop.
Last night, h was acting a bit different... he called when he was on his way home from work instead of texting as he had been doing since becoming so angry with me. Then he came and sat where I was sitting outside eating dessert later in the evening. I was of course paying attention to these small things (especially after reading the book & knowing how to set small goals that would show me progress) but I wasn't willing to believe they meant anything because he has been up & down so much throughout the past few weeks.
Well then when we were going to bed, I noticed that he was facing my side of the bed rather than away as he had been. After I got into bed he said he wanted to talk to me about something & I was nervous but said ok. He said- I think I am starting to not be so angry about what you said. I was a bit in shock but I acted calm & told him that I was glad to hear that. Then I settled down to sleep. Then he said- I want to ask you a question. I was nervous again but said ok. He then asked me why I thought it was ok for me to remain friends w/ a guy on fb who I had admitted to flirting with when I expected him to have no contact w/ the OP with whom he had the affair. I told him that I had failed to look at it from his perspective and instead just saw this guy as someone I had turned down because I was married & someone who I had no desire for what-so-ever. (Last week this sore spot came to my attention & I swiftly unfriended this guy on fb... I really never had anything going w/ him.) So then he says, "Do you have anything you would like to ask me?" I then said, "Is there something I need to know?" He said no. Then my brain was screaming - have you started talking to the OP? Why have you friended her on FB? etc, etc. But I took a few breaths and decided that now was not the time. I needed to do the opposite of what I would normally do. So I said, "no, there isn't anything I would like to ask right now. But is this my only chance to ask questions?" to which he replied no. So then we went to sleep.
SO... things are starting to possibly move in a more positive direction. However, I am cautiously optimistic. I realize that we have undone so much of what we had recovered in our counseling and there is no way I can just jump back into things & I am sure he cannot either. My thought is to continue on as planned & as I have been doing for the last few days & wait & see. But I am already planning ahead... at what point should I address the issue of this OP, if they have had more going on, why he is friends w/ her on fb, etc? I am kind of thinking I should wait & see what happens ... see if he unfriends her (he only friended her after he became so angry with me & he also unfriended me on fb) & friends me back? Set a time to address it... like if he hasn't made changes on his own in regards to this in a week or should it be more of a discussion we have when/if he starts to make moves to be closer to me. Ugh. So many questions!
Hello Hopeok,
First, I am so sorry about the situation you are in.
It is often hard to know what to do when there are so many unanswered questions.
It would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hello Hopeok,
First, I am so sorry about the situation you are in.
It is often hard to know what to do when there are so many unanswered questions.
It would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Unfortunately paying for individual counseling right now is all I can get my h to agree to.
Any advice on how to proceed? I am optimistic but cautious. He is no longer so mad about what he read... but that doesn't mean he wants to work on the marriage. He has been kind & more his normal self but so far it is like we are friends/roommates w/ no affection/intimacy. So my thoughts are to continue with the plan until he brings up the topic of wanting to work on the relationship. At this point all he has said is he is not so mad anymore. Am I right in letting him approach this topic?
Hope -
Stick with what's working! No reason to change course now.
It is so hard to be patient!
So hard. But take however long you think this may take and multiply it by 4. That's probably the low end. Stay strong and PATIENCE.
So hard. But take however long you think this may take and multiply it by 4. That's probably the low end. Stay strong and PATIENCE.
Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement.
I guess I kind of thought that once he was no longer so mad at me, that everything else would just kind of fall into place... but so far it hasn't. I am very thankful that we are not in such a bad place anymore where I am waiting for him to do something/ say something out of anger. It is far less stressful now than it had been. And I am much less afraid of divorce at this point.
However, we are living day to day on a friendly basis... nothing more. In my mind, I thought he would not be so angry & then soon after that he would maybe approach me for intimacy & I would then say something like, "well, are we still separated or are we working on our marriage?" (He had messaged a friend right after he became so angry with me a message that said- "we are basically separated but living together") But so far nothing of this sort.
So this leads me to question- is the w/ the OW? Is that why he is content to just keep our life going on a friendly basis b/c he is getting his romantic needs met through her? This is my biggest fear. If not for this, I think he would eventually come around & I would find it easier to be patient.
So my big question... when setting the small goals, in the book it says to talk with your partner about them, if you are in a place to. Well I definitely was not in a place to talk to him about them b/c he was hating me and so angry. So I proceeded to work on DB w/o him knowing the plans. Now that he is no longer so angry at me, do I share my goals at some point or do I continue on w/ him not knowing what I want to have happen? I do not want to pursue and push him away... but also want to talk to him about where we stand & what he wants. Ugh. So difficult to figure out the right thing to do.
Anyone?
So my big question... when setting the small goals, in the book it says to talk with your partner about them, if you are in a place to. Well I definitely was not in a place to talk to him about them b/c he was hating me and so angry. So I proceeded to work on DB w/o him knowing the plans. Now that he is no longer so angry at me, do I share my goals at some point or do I continue on w/ him not knowing what I want to have happen? I do not want to pursue and push him away... but also want to talk to him about where we stand & what he wants. Ugh. So difficult to figure out the right thing to do.
I would try to find a safe person to talk to, your spouse is probably not that person at this time point in time.
I would try to find a safe person to talk to, your spouse is probably not that person at this time point in time.
Ok. So is there a sign or a way to know when it is time to talk to them? I really want to just say- now you are not so angry at me, what is going on in your head? And are you talking to the OW again?
But I don't want to push him further away either. But it seems like he has gone slowly down hill w/ his mood towards me since telling me he was no longer so angry... So I wprryy distance is making him think I not wanting to work on the relationship.
Ugh. I messed up my plan. This morning I clued in to him not wearing his wedding ring anymore. I tried to breath and resist asking about it. But in the end, I asked. He said he took it off when he was so angry with me. I asked if he was still so angry with me and he said yes. I said, "you told me last week you were starting to not be so angry." he said, "no, I said I was trying to not be so angry." I said, "no, you definitely said you were starting to not be so angry." so then we went through stuff that was overall probably unhelpful but I tried to not say anything terribly detrimental. But he ended up being really mad anyway. He is just so up and down. He seems happy some times (like at the beginning of the weekend) & then has just slowly gotten moodier. He thinks that all through the counseling that I was faking it... because how else could I say what I said and make fun of him if I had really changed in counseling. Ugh. We have gotten no where. Maybe worse off now that he decided not to wear his wedding ring anymore.
Hi Hope,
I'm sorry you find yourself here. You are in the best place for a terrible sitch. I want to be very clear that I am no expert, however, a couple of things about your scenario jump out to me.
Did I read correctly that your h has a history of cheating in his prior Rs and that he has a few failed Ms? I don't mean to sound harsh, however he sounds like a serial cheater. Granted, you can only control you and I certainly understand you want to save your M.
He's mad. Okay. He stopped wearing his ring because in his mind he isn't M anymore. Stop asking him questions and focus on you. Trust me, he knows you want to work on the R so please don't think for a minute that if you GAL and work on what you need to work on that he will think you are not wanting to salvage the R. As soon as you take the focus off of his every word and action, you will feel sooooo much better.
He's not ready to talk to you and I don't think sharing goals with him at this point would produce the results you want. It's time to start from scratch and realize the old R is dead. Put a fork in it. That doesn't mean you can't build a new one, although perhaps now is the time to truly evaluate what you want and need in a R.
Your sitch is very new so I realize this is all very overwhelming. There are no quick fixes and he will try to bait you. What would you like to change for you? Not for him. What changes do you feel you need to make to make you the best Hope possible? Maybe you R and maybe you don't. No one knows. However, if you want to maintain your sanity, get off the hamster wheel.
Oh, and from experience I can tell you to avoid unnecessary drama on SM (FB, Twitter, Snapchat). Don't. go. there. Analyzing who is friends with who and liking photos will lead you to question the trajectory of our culture as whole, so I wouldn't waste my time. However, again, your h isn't here and you are. It just sounds like projection when he is referencing OM when he is the one who is/was cheating.
Hopefully, others will pop by with sound advice. Hang in there..it gets much better:)
Hi Hope,
I'm sorry you find yourself here. You are in the best place for a terrible sitch. I want to be very clear that I am no expert, however, a couple of things about your scenario jump out to me.
Did I read correctly that your h has a history of cheating in his prior Rs and that he has a few failed Ms? I don't mean to sound harsh, however he sounds like a serial cheater. Granted, you can only control you and I certainly understand you want to save your M.
He's mad. Okay. He stopped wearing his ring because in his mind he isn't M anymore. Stop asking him questions and focus on you. Trust me, he knows you want to work on the R so please don't think for a minute that if you GAL and work on what you need to work on that he will think you are not wanting to salvage the R. As soon as you take the focus off of his every word and action, you will feel sooooo much better.
He's not ready to talk to you and I don't think sharing goals with him at this point would produce the results you want. It's time to start from scratch and realize the old R is dead. Put a fork in it. That doesn't mean you can't build a new one, although perhaps now is the time to truly evaluate what you want and need in a R.
Your sitch is very new so I realize this is all very overwhelming. There are no quick fixes and he will try to bait you. What would you like to change for you? Not for him. What changes do you feel you need to make to make you the best Hope possible? Maybe you R and maybe you don't. No one knows. However, if you want to maintain your sanity, get off the hamster wheel.
Oh, and from experience I can tell you to avoid unnecessary drama on SM (FB, Twitter, Snapchat). Don't. go. there. Analyzing who is friends with who and liking photos will lead you to question the trajectory of our culture as whole, so I wouldn't waste my time. However, again, your h isn't here and you are. It just sounds like projection when he is referencing OM when he is the one who is/was cheating.
Hopefully, others will pop by with sound advice. Hang in there..it gets much better:)
Thank you for your advice. I do want off the hamster wheel it is just so hard to not react. I feel a bit like a doormat... he does all these things to punish me and I take it in & try to push kindness back out.
Yes, he has cheated in a couple of his other relationships. His mom was a serial cheater... so there is something there. He abhors his mother's bx and yet he has followed in her path, possibly as a result of his lack of trust and to not be hurt like his father was. I dunno. But yeah. We made it 11 years w/o infidelity (as far as I know & I had not seen any indication until this recent affair started). I thought we were different but I was naive. I married much too young & should have really walked away when I saw his history laid out before me in black & white. I nearly did... but he won me over.
Now I am angry from an email he sent me yesterday & I want to just run in the opposite direction. He points out all these resentments he has towards me. All the things I've done wrong. All this ugliness. I know that nothing I can say will change anything he does or says... but why do I want to try?! Or go in the opposite direction & punish him back. Last night I did do little inconsiderate things & I am now ignoring his texts today. I am reacting to him & acting out of anger. But how do I set limits & boundaries in healthy ways? How do I move on with my life while living in the same house as him with children? I want to just do my own thing w/ the kids, even if I know he wouldn't want to do it just to spite him. To push him to either give up the time he could have with his children or do an activity he really didn't want to do. It is being manipulative, I recognize that... but how do I live my own life, distance myself from his painful jabs, but also be considerate towards him??
I am so stuck and lost. I want to do the right thing but am struggling to see what that even is.
Hope -
A few thoughts I had while reading your post.
Try toremember that he isn't trying to punish you. He's hurting. The natural response is to try to ease that pain. In his mind, hurting you, lashing out, throwing a temper tantrum all make him feel better. Just try to remember it isn't about YOU. It's about HIM. He's going to say and do things he knows will hurt you, but it's truly not about you. Time to buy stock in spew jackets.
With that in mind, try not to punish him back. You get to choose how you act and react to him. Act with the grace that you wish he had. There's nothing you can say to change him right now, but how does fighting back help you to heal or help him see the error in his ways. Be the person you want and deserve to be. It's not easy, but I believe you can do it!
Hope -
A few thoughts I had while reading your post.
Try toremember that he isn't trying to punish you. He's hurting. The natural response is to try to ease that pain. In his mind, hurting you, lashing out, throwing a temper tantrum all make him feel better. Just try to remember it isn't about YOU. It's about HIM. He's going to say and do things he knows will hurt you, but it's truly not about you. Time to buy stock in spew jackets.
With that in mind, try not to punish him back. You get to choose how you act and react to him. Act with the grace that you wish he had. There's nothing you can say to change him right now, but how does fighting back help you to heal or help him see the error in his ways. Be the person you want and deserve to be. It's not easy, but I believe you can do it!
You are so right, and I know this. I know hurt ppl hurt ppl. But I am getting so tired of it because I have a hard time not letting it affect me. I think I have mostly done good to not react badly... I haven't said anything hurtful & have only this week started to back away from him... Avoiding him when I can (when the kids aren't right there with us). But I am having a hard time detaching w/o being cold.
And just when I think I can steel myself for the long haul, last night he wakes up and puts his hand on my arm. I asked him what he was doing & he said, just putting my hand on your arm, do you want me to move it? I said no. I started to let hope seep back in but remained still and calm. Then a few minutes later his phone has a weather alert, he moves his hand & then stays on his side of the bed. I try to go back to sleep, can't, & so I ask him what he is doing. He said he didn't know. Ugh. And now I am back to the tormented state because of this. Then I can't resist & go look at his fb (which I am no longer his friend) & see that he is no longer friends w/ the other woman. I get that hope back but then tamp it down telling myself she could have Unfriended him!
Ugh. I just want to have better control of my emotions & not let him affect them so much. Up or down!!
What is the difference between detaching and withdrawing?
Hiya, Hope.
Detaching means you are not hitching your wagon on the spouse's actions, behaviors, or words thus being influenced by them. It is like being thrown about like a ragged doll. Detachment means you are not impacted by another individual's actions, behaviors or words. You still care about the person and interact with them without being thrown off kilter.
Whereas withdrawing is a self-protection mechanism where there is no contact and shutting yourself off from the event, situation, or interaction. Withdrawing from a person is total disengagement which means that YOU are affected by the attendant event/situation.
Make sense? Hope this helps.
Hiya, Hope.
Detaching means you are not hitching your wagon on the spouse's actions, behaviors, or words thus being influenced by them. It is like being thrown about like a ragged doll. Detachment means you are not impacted by another individual's actions, behaviors or words. You still care about the person and interact with them without being thrown off kilter.
Whereas withdrawing is a self-protection mechanism where there is no contact and shutting yourself off from the event, situation, or interaction. Withdrawing from a person is total disengagement which means that YOU are affected by the attendant event/situation.
Make sense? Hope this helps.
Ugh. Yes. That makes sense. I have had a history of withdrawing which was the cause of our previous relationship problems and now I find myself being pulled to do it again. I have read & reread the detachment sticky but am having a hard time with it. In reality, all I do is in an effort to get my spouse to work on our marriage.
So I guess I just don't know how to detach when I really care about wanting intimacy and closeness in our relationship. I just end up withdrawing (avoiding contact with him).
So if he does something... like not wearing his wedding ring... this is hurtful and makes me panic. But if I were to detach, I wouldn't be hurt by it, not worried about it? Or just not react to it outwardly?
If you were detached, you would recognize that it's his choice whether or not to wear his ring and it wouldn't impact your emotional well being. Just like you shouldn't base your choice on wearing your ring on how he may react.
Easier said than done though, huh?
[quote=Wonka] So if he does something... like not wearing his wedding ring... this is hurtful and makes me panic. But if I were to detach, I wouldn't be hurt by it, not worried about it? Or just not react to it outwardly?
^^^^^^^
Exactly! Ideally you will not react either way. It may take some time and as been hardest part of DB for me. You cannot control that he chooses to not wear ring, so it is wasted energy to get upset or obsess about it. He also may be tring to get reaction from you/pick argument. It is REALLY hard though.
If you were detached, you would recognize that it's his choice whether or not to wear his ring and it wouldn't impact your emotional well being. Just like you shouldn't base your choice on wearing your ring on how he may react.
Easier said than done though, huh?
Ok, ok. I see. Going to focus on that. What he does is his choice & should not let that impact my emotions. Yes, so much easier said than done.
[quote=Wonka] So if he does something... like not wearing his wedding ring... this is hurtful and makes me panic. But if I were to detach, I wouldn't be hurt by it, not worried about it? Or just not react to it outwardly?
^^^^^^^
Exactly! Ideally you will not react either way. It may take some time and as been hardest part of DB for me. You cannot control that he chooses to not wear ring, so it is wasted energy to get upset or obsess about it. He also may be tring to get reaction from you/pick argument. It is REALLY hard though.
Yes, that is true. There could be many reasons for him doing it. I cannot control him doing it nor if/when he puts it back on. Going to keep "wasted energy" in my mind anytime I think about it. Maybe that will help.
Or even better switch to working on or thinking about you! What has worked well for me is wearing a rubber band and snapping it when I start to focus on the wrong things. This is thanks to Job. Not sure if she has posted in your thread yet.
Or even better switch to working on or thinking about you! What has worked well for me is wearing a rubber band and snapping it when I start to focus on the wrong things. This is thanks to Job. Not sure if she has posted in your thread yet.
Yes, I have started to do things for myself more, especially when I am feeling low... like baths, yoga, meditation (trying but it's hard!), reading helpful books, music, playing music, etc.
I will try the rubber band! Good idea.
My H is concerned about me stabbing him in the back again... saying hurtful things about him behind his back. This is what he said-
"That is part of what I struggle with, I don't know if it's better to know about it so that I can get myself into thinking that I can keep you from doing it anymore. or if it would be better not to know about it and then have you continue to do it without me knowing.I know there are plenty of other people that you could have already told. and plenty of people that you could still be talking about me with."
So what can I say to this? I want to make sure I am saying the right thing that is supportive... I have already said too much that makes him get defensive or start attacking me again.
Here is what I was thinking-
"I see what you are saying & I can see how that would be a difficult thing to figure out. I know I haven't been trustworthy so you cannot believe what I say. I don't really know the answer to this other than what I have already done & that is to say my accounts are open to you. But it is just like you told me with O if you really wanted to talk to her, you could figure out a way. So I guess this is the same. If I really wanted to continue to say hurtful things, I could still do it. So all I can say is that I want to do better, I want to be able to bring stuff to you in a healthy way instead of dealing with things in unhealthy ways, and I don't want to be the cause of your pain again. I don't have any answers other than that but am willing to do whatever I need to do to help you feel secure if you think of anything. "
Anyway, did he say this to you or write it in an email? In either case, I think your reply is way too long. But let's discuss based on how you will reply.
Anyway, did he say this to you or write it in an email? In either case, I think your reply is way too long. But let's discuss based on how you will reply.
Ooops! So sorry, I just copied & pasted from my draft email so I didn't even see that slip. I guess there is not a way for me to modify that post?
He wrote it in an email. So I should shorten my reply... but what should I toss? Or how should I change that?
Thanks Cadet for editing. I'll be more careful!!
I mostly noticed because your timeline matches up a LOT with mine, and the name you had....struck a chord with me. Out of curiosity, is your H in the music field as well...?
As for the email, it may make more sense to approach him and discuss his concerns in a validating manner. I don't know that a long note is really that beneficial any vets out there with thoughts?
No, not in the music field.
Okay, let me read through the validating sticky & see if I can come up with something more along those lines.
This is all I would leave if I was just going to validate-
"I see what you are saying & I can see how that would be a difficult thing to figure out."
Should I not add something else to that? Maybe, "What can I do to help you feel better?"
This is all I would leave if I was just going to validate-
"I see what you are saying & I can see how that would be a difficult thing to figure out."
Should I not add something else to that? Maybe, "What can I do to help you feel better?"
I wouldn't put the responsibility on him. I would say something like:
I understand your concerns, and I can see how my actions may have hurt you. I am working to understand what may have caused that response so that it does not happen again.
But I'm TERRIBLE at this kind of thing.
This is all I would leave if I was just going to validate-
"I see what you are saying & I can see how that would be a difficult thing to figure out."
Should I not add something else to that? Maybe, "What can I do to help you feel better?"
I wouldn't put the responsibility on him. I would say something like:
I understand your concerns, and I can see how my actions may have hurt you. I am working to understand what may have caused that response so that it does not happen again.
But I'm TERRIBLE at this kind of thing.
I'm not so good either. I do appreciate your help though!
I seem to always go back to giving reasons (which are seen negatively). And always write too much!
Pretty much same old same old. He is being kind & interacting with me around the kids. It sure seems like he was showing more interest when I was being cold & short with him, delaying responses a long time on text & having the kids answer my phone. (I was mad from his ugly text.) but I worked through that & decided to not be cold & he is back to being distant. It's not healthy to keep the cold attitude going but man it is tempting since it got his attention.
Yesterday I had individual counseling where she did thought field therapy... It is suppose to remove the emotional component to whatever is consuming you. So I have 2 things mostly... Fear/sadness about a possible divorce & also fear he is back with or will get back with OW. We did the therapy (which is related to acupuncture but uses taping instead of needles) on sadness related to a potential divorce. I started out thinking about it & tears filling my eyes. Then after doing the series about 5 times I couldn't make myself cry over it... None of my trigger thoughts did anything. It is a curious thing. Still the same today. Of course I am concerned about it & don't want it to happen... But I am not overwhelmed with the sadness I was when thinking about it before.
He came over to my side of the bed last night & put his arm around me. Then a minute later he said he'd woken up to snuggling with me. I said -"you must have been sleep snuggling." Then there was a bit of a pause & I said, "do you want to take it back?" And he said no. So then we held hands until he moved later after we'd both fallen asleep.
Progress? Maybe. Trying to not get hopeful... I've had that dashed may times before.
Pretty much same old same old. He is being kind & interacting with me around the kids. It sure seems like he was showing more interest when I was being cold & short with him, delaying responses a long time on text & having the kids answer my phone. (I was mad from his ugly text.) but I worked through that & decided to not be cold & he is back to being distant. It's not healthy to keep the cold attitude going but man it is tempting since it got his attention.
Sounds like pursuer/distancer 101. But, don't go "cold". Keep PMA, keep positive interactions. Just stop pursuing. Easy, right?
Yesterday I had individual counseling where she did thought field therapy... It is suppose to remove the emotional component to whatever is consuming you. So I have 2 things mostly... Fear/sadness about a possible divorce & also fear he is back with or will get back with OW. We did the therapy (which is related to acupuncture but uses taping instead of needles) on sadness related to a potential divorce. I started out thinking about it & tears filling my eyes. Then after doing the series about 5 times I couldn't make myself cry over it... None of my trigger thoughts did anything. It is a curious thing. Still the same today. Of course I am concerned about it & don't want it to happen... But I am not overwhelmed with the sadness I was when thinking about it before.
Sounds interesting hopefully it *sticks*.
Once those emotions lose their hold on you, you can move to a very powerful place.
He came over to my side of the bed last night & put his arm around me. Then a minute later he said he'd woken up to snuggling with me. I said -"you must have been sleep snuggling." Then there was a bit of a pause & I said, "do you want to take it back?" And he said no. So then we held hands until he moved later after we'd both fallen asleep.
Progress? Maybe. Trying to not get hopeful... I've had that dashed may times before.
Who know. Keep acting AS IF. Don't ask if he intends to treat you nicely. Just act like he did and it will become natural.
Ugh. Just like I expected. We have been having a pleasant day, nice interactions... Him starting more of them than me... But then while watching a movie for a class I am in, I see him typing & then he is angling his phone in a way that I cannot see. When all the other times he was on fb he was keeping it out where it wasn't hidden. Then later I hear his phone vibrate & he doesn't look at it. When he goes out of the room, I look at the screen & it says "content hidden" on the message that came in (& he changed all his passwords after he got so mad at me).
My impulse is to say- are you talking to her. Just straight out. But then my brain tells me that it wouldn't be wise when I have no negotiating power... I have to get him totally willing to commit to a relationship first. And I could lose whatever headway we ha last night.... If that is what it was.
Man, this is so discouraging and makes me want do something back at him.
So I decided to just get ready & then say I was going out to run errands. He totally clued in to something going on... But not sure if he thought I was going to go meet someone (he has thought I have had an affair in the past) or if he knew I was leaving b/c I was bothered. So I came back & acted as if everything was fine. But I feel a little bit of distance there. Not sure if I should regret doing that or not ... If he was talking to her I do not. But if he wasn't, what If I messed it up.
Well seems like I have not detached! 😁
So now it feels like we are playing a game since I did that. I kinda feel like just saying- hey, I left earlier because I needed to get out of the house. I feel like you are secretive on your phone, doing something I am not suppose to see and that sets me on edge. How can you treat me one way at night and then seem like you are involved with someone else during the day.
But that would be totally breaking the rules, no? I would be pursuing, right?
So now it feels like we are playing a game since I did that. I kinda feel like just saying- hey, I left earlier because I needed to get out of the house. I feel like you are secretive on your phone, doing something I am not suppose to see and that sets me on edge. How can you treat me one way at night and then seem like you are involved with someone else during the day.
But that would be totally breaking the rules, no? I would be pursuing, right?
Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.
Relax.
You're allowed to get out of the house, right? There's no reason to play tit for tat. No reason to be retaliating or punishing. But you don't need to be around if/when he's texting with OW.
Just try to relax. Friendly neighbor, remember?
Ugh. Failed. I said- "today I left because I was feeling frustrated by you being on your phone & hiding it, like you were talking to her."
He then basically said- "you aren't worried I was talking about you to someone else? You're not worried I was talking to someone from a long time ago?" I said no to both of these & he said "I can say I have not talked to OW today." I said "so are you playin games? What about last night when you were putting your hand on me in the bed?" He said, "I was sleeping."
Ugh. He is playing games. I am so feeling like I am done. I cannot handle him giving me hope like last night & then dashing the hopes today. So what do I do!? I totally shouldn't have said anything. I am so bad at this. I hate this.
Ok. Ok. Refocusing on his choices not affecting me. Absorbing myself in the kids. Not letting him manipulate me in this way. I hate how it seems like he is just evil... Someone I don't even know! I know he is still hurt & is trying to hurt me back but how can he keep at it this long!? After he had an affair I think I was crazy mad for about 2-3 days. Then I came down and started to change what I needed to change in myself. Now that he is the one who is hurt and not feeling like he can trust me, he has to hold on to it forever! It's been 4.5 weeks!
Sometimes it seems like he forgets he is so mad & he lets it all go for a bit. But then bam- he remembers it all and he is back to being a jerk. And he was so mad at me for thinking he was talking to the OW tonight. Why!? He is the one making it seem like he has something going on.!!
So now it feels like we are playing a game since I did that. I kinda feel like just saying- hey, I left earlier because I needed to get out of the house. I feel like you are secretive on your phone, doing something I am not suppose to see and that sets me on edge. How can you treat me one way at night and then seem like you are involved with someone else during the day.
But that would be totally breaking the rules, no? I would be pursuing, right?
Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.
Relax.
You're allowed to get out of the house, right? There's no reason to play tit for tat. No reason to be retaliating or punishing. But you don't need to be around if/when he's texting with OW.
Just try to relax. Friendly neighbor, remember?
I wish I would have read this before I said something.
I feel like I am constantly starting over with this roller coaster ride. So today, I start once again trying to detach and focus on myself, the kids, and the positives in my life. Also need to focus on not letting his choices affect me emotionally. He is playing a game and I do not have to participate.
Hope -
Remember that detachment and change and everything is a process. It's hard to not think that every day should be better than the day before. But that's just not how it works. There's stops and starts and jumps and slides and everything in between. Just keep picking yourself back up and keep on going.
You can do it.
Hope -
Remember that detachment and change and everything is a process. It's hard to not think that every day should be better than the day before. But that's just not how it works. There's stops and starts and jumps and slides and everything in between. Just keep picking yourself back up and keep on going.
You can do it.
Thanks so much for this. I know you are right... it just feels like you fail when you lose your focus & fall off.
Hi Hope
The WAS will replay all your conversations since BD as if it's your fault. You will try and argue, fight your corner, correct mis-quotes etc., it'll all be to no avail, you can't win. Best to have a STFU smoothie and stand back. Yup, easier said than done.
My W has done all these things. It hurts how things get remembered, but as long as you know you're right, or can actually remember what you said, you'll be OK.
Don't stress about rings etc. It's just part of the process of being on the roller coaster from hell. Right now, you're still going down, time to think about what YOU'RE going to do when you get back to the top!
Hi Hope
The WAS will replay all your conversations since BD as if it's your fault. You will try and argue, fight your corner, correct mis-quotes etc., it'll all be to no avail, you can't win. Best to have a STFU smoothie and stand back. Yup, easier said than done.
My W has done all these things. It hurts how things get remembered, but as long as you know you're right, or can actually remember what you said, you'll be OK.
Don't stress about rings etc. It's just part of the process of being on the roller coaster from hell. Right now, you're still going down, time to think about what YOU'RE going to do when you get back to the top!
You are so right! He is replaying all the negatives and none of the positives. I want to set the record straight but have realized it doesn't matter as long as he has his mind made up to believe things are one way.
I need to work more on those smoothies! I tend to do pretty good until he does something. When will I see that he is doing these things to get a reaction out of me & to punish me? Best to ignore these attempts so he doesn't have the satisfaction. Yes, easier said than done.
Good question. What am I going to do when things come up for good? I don't even know what that will look like so it is hard to say.
I saw your post about your ring. You do what you want to do about it for YOU. I'm still wearing mine - I believe any reason to take it off would just be to see if I could get a response from W. But you make your own choice!
I can read through my eight previous threads and I shudder at some of the stuff from the start. I can see things that happened to me and my reactions and how I would deal with it now in a totally opposite way.
Your brain is fried, you're tired, you're confused, you're angry, you want the pain to go away. Keep calm. It will get worse before it gets better! It will, whatever the outcome is.
I saw your post about your ring. You do what you want to do about it for YOU. I'm still wearing mine - I believe any reason to take it off would just be to see if I could get a response from W. But you make your own choice!
Yeah, I kinda feel like until I want to remove it for the sake of removing it, I'll keep it on. If I removed now it would be a tit for tat thing or to get a reaction.
I can read through my eight previous threads and I shudder at some of the stuff from the start. I can see things that happened to me and my reactions and how I would deal with it now in a totally opposite way.
Your brain is fried, you're tired, you're confused, you're angry, you want the pain to go away. Keep calm. It will get worse before it gets better! It will, whatever the outcome is.
Yeah, I can see that I will be the same way. Heck, I already hate that I said something last night. Ugh, I already feel like it has gotten worse and then better, then worse again then better. I hate that. Just stay the same so I can adjust & not falter so much on my stance!!
I can read through my eight previous threads and I shudder at some of the stuff from the start. I can see things that happened to me and my reactions and how I would deal with it now in a totally opposite way.
Your brain is fried, you're tired, you're confused, you're angry, you want the pain to go away. Keep calm. It will get worse before it gets better! It will, whatever the outcome is.
Yeah, I can see that I will be the same way. Heck, I already hate that I said something last night. Ugh, I already feel like it has gotten worse and then better, then worse again then better. I hate that. Just stay the same so I can adjust & not falter so much on my stance!!
The only way to learn is to make mistakes. Just don't do the same thing twice!
Yeah, Matt has nailed it. Just don't beg or plead or act needy.
The only way to learn is to make mistakes. Just don't do the same thing twice!
Ha! Yeah. Good point.
Yeah, Matt has nailed it. Just don't beg or plead or act needy.
I've stopped that... after it not working for days 1-4, I gave it up. Now we are almost to week 5 & mostly my mistakes are just not resisting saying something when I am feeling fired up about something. Like when he took off his ring & when he was purposefully hiding his messaging right next to me (& I ignored it for a good while, only said something b/c I felt guilty for acting out in response).
I just really feel like he will continue on at this pace until something changes. I just cannot quite figure out what I need to make that change be. As someone who spent a good portion of our relationship withdrawn, I really want my response to be something other than withdrawing into my own activities (I would go to book club, classes, etc... anything to have some fun as a way to withdraw from my critical husband). I have tried to start doing more with the kids in the evenings & having the attitude of- he can join us or not... but there is only so much we can do & so far he has joined in on everything! I stay at home so I am able to pursue my own interests at my leisure during the day (started some yoga, meditating, playing music, etc) & I am also back in school so I have school work.
So how do you GAL without withdrawing? If I leave the house & do things on my own in the evenings w/o the kids, then he will have the attitude of - "see, she hasn't changed. I knew she couldn't stick with it." as well as, "glad I get to spend alone time with the kids w/o her here reminding me how much I dislike her."
Suggestions?
Quick question: so detachment is all about equanimity?
Quick question: so detachment is all about equanimity?
Hmmm.... good question. I am still trying to figure out this detachment thing (clearly!). I think that is a part of it... that you get to that by realizing that you cannot control them & their actions are just that- theirs. There is a whole lot more to it than that though.
Quick question: so detachment is all about equanimity?
Hmmm.... good question. I am still trying to figure out this detachment thing (clearly!). I think that is a part of it... that you get to that by realizing that you cannot control them & their actions are just that- theirs. There is a whole lot more to it than that though.
**puts away dictionary**
I think....kind of.
You're allowed to FEEL. You get a promotion, celebrate! Your dog dies, grieve! That's all ok. What you want to avoid: my S is grumpy, so IM grumpy. My spouse called me so I'm happy.
Let your emotions be driven by you. Not by your interactions with your spouse.
so it seems that it's a combo of equanimity and avoiding co-dependence?
The only way to learn is to make mistakes. Just don't do the same thing twice!
Ha! Yeah. Good point.
Yeah, Matt has nailed it. Just don't beg or plead or act needy.
I've stopped that... after it not working for days 1-4, I gave it up. Now we are almost to week 5 & mostly my mistakes are just not resisting saying something when I am feeling fired up about something. Like when he took off his ring & when he was purposefully hiding his messaging right next to me (& I ignored it for a good while, only said something b/c I felt guilty for acting out in response).
I just really feel like he will continue on at this pace until something changes. I just cannot quite figure out what I need to make that change be. As someone who spent a good portion of our relationship withdrawn, I really want my response to be something other than withdrawing into my own activities (I would go to book club, classes, etc... anything to have some fun as a way to withdraw from my critical husband). I have tried to start doing more with the kids in the evenings & having the attitude of- he can join us or not... but there is only so much we can do & so far he has joined in on everything! I stay at home so I am able to pursue my own interests at my leisure during the day (started some yoga, meditating, playing music, etc) & I am also back in school so I have school work.
So how do you GAL without withdrawing? If I leave the house & do things on my own in the evenings w/o the kids, then he will have the attitude of - "see, she hasn't changed. I knew she couldn't stick with it." as well as, "glad I get to spend alone time with the kids w/o her here reminding me how much I dislike her."
Suggestions?
Try not to measure your change by days, but rather in weeks. It feels like you're considering a scattershot approach without giving each thing a chance to "take effect". I recommend that whatever you do decide to do, to slow down and see if it is actually having an impact.
I have read your thread, HopeOk, and I can see a lot of thoughts you are having are the same thoughts I am having now, even after months of BD and H filing.
Detaching and patience is the key, easy to say but I so very difficult to do.
Keep going, stay strong!
Update.
After yesterday's deal where I felt like he was just playing games, I decidwd to put a voice activated recorder in the car he drives. Listened to it tonight. He uses speech to text a lot so I'm lucky on that. He is having communication with OW again. He told her about our confrontation yesterday & he said he is getting tired of me. He also asked her about some response she had made to his "apology" ... He wanted her to tell him what she had said. So I guess he apologized for how things ended? I dunno, really. He isn't callings & talking to her so that is different. (They talked so much on the phone before.) He is not saying anything lovey dovey, at least not today. I plan to keep recording to see what I find.
I was in the house a long time while he was swimming out with the kids. He finally sent one of the kids in to see if I was coming out. He might have seen me looking out of our bedroom window (I was making sure he didn't come in & find me w/ the recorder).
I feel so much better in one way... I feel more like I have a bit of the upper hand. So what to do next?? I will keep listening but what else. I need all the advice I can get! My thoughts are to see if their relationship is anything more than friendly. I think he would already be doing more than what he is doing but I think she is setting boundaries. (She was thinking they should end it when I first found out.)
If it is just friendly stuff, I want to draw a line. If it is an affair, I think I will leave w/ the kids. Any thoughts/advice?
I am finding it easier to detach tonight.
not mad, just on a mission now.
Snooping isn't good as it will hurt you.
Snooping isn't good as it will hurt you.
But if he is cheating again, I am leaving. Also, I want to know because it gives me a better perspective of what is going on. I think he is no longer incredibly angry at me for what I said behind his back. I think now he is just keeping things as is so he can continue w/ this relationship... At whatever level it is. If he continues to pretend it is all my fault & he is not working on the relationship b/c of that, he continues to keep all his devices locked, the phone bill unavailable to me, etc. knowing how things really are gives me a different angle to take, I think.
This is what I am chewing on this morning..
When they do that, you should call them out on it, saying plainly that YOU will be taking their secrecy and lack of transparency as an indication that they are still in contact, or want to be able to be if they desire, and you will be proceeding with your own decision-making accordingly.
Starsky
Makes total sense. But figuring out what that decision-making part is... very difficult.
Very true. But just like in geopolitics, it's often more important for your adversary to know that "all options are on the table," than it is for you yourself to really have to know exactly WHICH option you're going to take, or how or
when. Us humans really are path-of-least-resistance creatures (especially us men!); when we know that you're not going anywhere, and aren't going to require of us any painful change, we tend to continue on our same path -- even when it's a destructive one.
In all my years here, I've never seen a single successful affair-bust or divorce-bust where the wayward spouse didn't first feel a
credible fear of losing the betrayed spouse.Starsky
[quote=Starsky309]
Very true. But just like in geopolitics, it's often more important for your adversary to know that "all options are on the table," than it is for you yourself to really have to know exactly WHICH option you're going to take, or how or when. Us humans really are path-of-least-resistance creatures (especially us men!); when we know that you're not going anywhere, and aren't going to require of us any painful change, we tend to continue on our same path -- even when it's a destructive one.
In all my years here, I've never seen a single successful affair-bust or divorce-bust where the wayward spouse didn't first feel a credible fear of losing the betrayed spouse.
Starsky
Snooping isn't good as it will hurt you.
But if he is cheating again, I am leaving. Also, I want to know because it gives me a better perspective of what is going on.
If repeated infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with finding out definitely once and for all whether he's re-established contact with his affair partner. It's only constant, obsessive "snooping" when you ALREADY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON that can mess with your detachment (and even then I still advise people to get good intel, but to have a trusted friend monitor it for you and only give you updates as needed in order to protect you).
For the life of me, I'll never understand why people want to insist on flying thru the fog of adultery, without instruments.
Starsky
Yes, it is a deal breaker for me. He knows this.
It only gets sticky when they are just having friendly conversations. It isn't acceptable to me & it needs to stop but I need something more going on before I leave the home.
Well we've taken a turn for hopefully the better.
I had individual counseling on Monday evening (3 days ago) & came away with the feeling that I've been making the situation worse. For one, I make assumptions & run with them. For two, I don't slow down in the heat of the moment and end up saying things that push my H further away. And in these conversations, he is gauging whether or not he can possibly start to trust that I am not going to hurt him again. Oh & my counselor seemed to think that my H was making very small baby steps towards me. Taking some steps back but he was taking some steps towards me that I really didn't totally see as that. So I left the appointment pretty hopeful that I could work on my communication to not push him further away (slow down and think about what I'm about to say & what will happen when he says it), stop assuming things, and that at least maybe there has been a few baby steps he has taken towards me.
So then tuesday morning I had sent him a message saying I was probably better off just not saying anything in our arguments and he sent an ugly email back saying that it would be great if I'd include in that any accusations, trying to catch me in stuff, and quizzes in that not talking.
I wrote back and said I knew I'd been making the situation worse & that I was working on it.
He then wrote back -
I apologize for holding on so hard to these bad feelings and anger. I am going to try to do better starting today. I really think we can get back on track.
Me- Gosh. I am so so sorry for making such a mess of us. I am committed to doing better and working on myself.
H- It doesn’t help when I just hold on to stuff and feel worse and worse. I realized after reading to D last night that my choices in this are making everything in my life worse and moving me towards losing her and him. I do not want that or to lose you either.
me- I do not want to lose them or you either. I have been so scared of that.
H- Well let’s fix it. there’s no good future or outcomes in the way we’ve been doing this.
So... at least we are now on the road to seeing if we can fix this mess and he is no longer out to punish me and doing various things to hurt me.
When this message came I was so relieved I cried. I told myself though that this was just the first step... he would have to follow up with various things such as putting his ring back on, friending me on fb, unlocking his devices & not being so secretive. So he did all these things that same day. He held my hand in the car. It was very awkward & I felt very nervous... I guess from nearly 6 weeks of being so anxious about what he was doing and what else he would do to hurt me.
It has been a couple days and the relief has settled. I am still very thankful to be in this new place of potential recovery but I am starting to have my anxieties come back. For example, yesterday he went by & picked up some fruit from a fruit stand near his work. He texted me at 4:15 to say he was getting on the highway to come home. Then he texted a few minutes later to say he had picked up some fruit at the stand. Later that night, I happen to see the receipt on the counter from the fruit & it says 3:30p. Immediately I am panicked. But I talk myself down and tell myself that nothing good will come of asking H about it... or at least I could not come up with a way to ask that would not set him on the defensive and send up down another one of the bad paths of he feels I'm accusing & gets nervous & defensive and that never ends well. So I stuffed it for the night. But it has still been haunting me. And today my anxieties are taking it a bit further thinking- what if he just agreed to "fix" things between us so I would relax & not go seek out an attorney (which I had set a boundary that weekend about how I was going to have to adjust my actions accordingly if he continued to be secretive, not transparent, and dishonest). So I am fearing that he just wanted to pacify me so that he could relax & continue whatever relationship on the side he wanted to. Now this is my paranoid side, I realize. There could be truth to it or it could be just my fears. But figuring out that is where I am stuck.
So tonight or tomorrow... soon... I intend to ask him how he thinks we should go about fixing things. We are so far from being comfortable with one another (which to some extent will take time) and trusting one another... I don't think that we can just sit back and wait for it to happen. Pretty sure he is not going to be willing to go back to counseling for all the reasons he has already been so adamant against it... so this also sends me in a hopeless state of- how are we ever going to fix this on our own with professional help??!! How are we going to keep this from happening in the future?!
I also know I have to ask him some questions to help myself move on like what he did when we were on the outs, why he did what he did, and is he still "friends" with the OW.
And on his side of things, I know he has a lot of resentments towards me... so I also want to ask him how we can move past those... what would help him to heal from the things that I have done.
If anyone has any recommendations on recovery w/o professional help, please share. I feel very overwhelmed with the prospect and I am very much questioning whether I can trust my H after what he has done. (He might be asking the same thing of me!)
hope
Ok ... I get where you are at, its a very tough spot to be in. In my case W and OM were an on again and off again A for 18 months or so.
Some questions you have ... really ask yourself ... will the truth help you or will it just cause even more pain? Its really easy to be stuck in the past and stay there, its easy to spin ... truth is you are still very fresh in all this. I will just pull out a few things you listed:
H- It doesn’t help when I just hold on to stuff and feel worse and worse. I realized after reading to D last night that my choices in this are making everything in my life worse and moving me towards losing her and him. I do not want that or to lose you either.
H- Well let’s fix it. there’s no good future or outcomes in the way we’ve been doing this.
Your H is admitting his own faults, looking in the mirror and owning HIS part in all this ... this is a step forward
he would have to follow up with various things such as putting his ring back on, friending me on fb, unlocking his devices & not being so secretive. So he did all these things that same day. He held my hand in the car. It was very awkward & I felt very nervous... I guess from nearly 6 weeks of being so anxious about what he was doing and what else he would do to hurt me.
Here his ACTIONS are backing up the words ... what do we talk about here .. believe nothing of what they SAY...50% of what they DO.
Then....
For example, yesterday he went by & picked up some fruit from a fruit stand near his work. He texted me at 4:15 to say he was getting on the highway to come home. Then he texted a few minutes later to say he had picked up some fruit at the stand. Later that night, I happen to see the receipt on the counter from the fruit & it says 3:30p. Immediately I am panicked.
So .. you snoop, you are looking for a sign a clue and you are getting yourself spinning as to WHERE H could have been/done in that 45 minutes.
Lets look at this ... he just told you he was wanted to work on things, he even mentioned " it would be great if I'd include in that any accusations, trying to catch me in stuff, and quizzes in that not talking." but ... you are still at it. I do not blame you.... but this is one of his concerns and you are not being open and honest.
Here is the deal, you have to COMMUNICATE, do not assume ... those 45 minutes, maybe he helped an old lady across the street, maybe he met up with OW to tell her face to face things were over and he was working on his F, maybe he had a quickie in the hotel .... regardless of what he did ... you are not DBing here! You are focused on his every move and it will not help him trust you .. nor you trust him. I am not 2x4ing you here .. because I caught myself doing almost the same thing these past weeks.
Going through this without professional help will be tricky as you do seem like you want to push and press H ... he is going at this at his own pace, I do think hitting him up about that 45 minutes that were unaccounted for will not go as you hope .. and will backfire. At some point you have to decide to trust, you might not be there yet, your H might not be there yet .. it takes time .... rather than speculate (on the 45 minutes) I would wait untill you have something tangible that you can bring up ... otherwise it makes you appear needy and clingy .... and mostly that 'you are trying to catch him' as he put it.
hope
Ok ... I get where you are at, its a very tough spot to be in. In my case W and OM were an on again and off again A for 18 months or so.
So .. you snoop, you are looking for a sign a clue and you are getting yourself spinning as to WHERE H could have been/done in that 45 minutes.
Lets look at this ... he just told you he was wanted to work on things, he even mentioned " it would be great if I'd include in that any accusations, trying to catch me in stuff, and quizzes in that not talking." but ... you are still at it. I do not blame you.... but this is one of his concerns and you are not being open and honest.
Here is the deal, you have to COMMUNICATE, do not assume ... those 45 minutes, maybe he helped an old lady across the street, maybe he met up with OW to tell her face to face things were over and he was working on his F, maybe he had a quickie in the hotel .... regardless of what he did ... you are not DBing here! You are focused on his every move and it will not help him trust you .. nor you trust him. I am not 2x4ing you here .. because I caught myself doing almost the same thing these past weeks.
Going through this without professional help will be tricky as you do seem like you want to push and press H ... he is going at this at his own pace, I do think hitting him up about that 45 minutes that were unaccounted for will not go as you hope .. and will backfire. At some point you have to decide to trust, you might not be there yet, your H might not be there yet .. it takes time .... rather than speculate (on the 45 minutes) I would wait untill you have something tangible that you can bring up ... otherwise it makes you appear needy and clingy .... and mostly that 'you are trying to catch him' as he put it.
Ok, ok. I definitely needed this. I knew there was a reason to come post on here.
I definitely see what you are saying & I definitely do not want to get back into that mode of feeling panicked over something so small & bringing it up & starting another war. I am very aware of how bad that has been for us & that is why I stopped myself & haven't brought it up. I guess I am so worried that something is going to happen between him & someone else & I am going to miss it for a good while. He had his affair for about 4 months & I only started to catch on to something really in the last month or so. Then he said he was "putting it on hold" (I realize now how bizarre that wording is & how indicative that is of what was to come) & while I was working my butt off to do what I needed to do he was still very much in communication with her for 2 weeks before I busted him again. Then I really messed up by saying some extremely hurtful things that the found out about & he resumes contact with her (never did I find anything romantic... so there is still that question). So I guess I am super paranoid that he is or is going to end up in another relationship w/ her. But I don't want to cause problems if he is not!
So thank you for coming on here and saying what you did. I did realize I was assuming and jumping to conclusions but wasn't sure what to do with the fear I felt about seeing that receipt on the counter w/ that time. I even did tell myself that the time on the cash register could have been off... it is a farm stand after all! So I do realize that it could totally be nothing.
So on that note, how do I stop looking for every little thing. I didn't go searching for the receipt, it was just on the counter although when I saw it there I did investigate the time. Should I stay off his devices? Should I not check into things at all? This seems like setting myself up for something to happen w/o me realizing it but maybe I am coming at this from the wrong place. I do want to trust him & I do want to move on from his affair... I am just so worried about it happening again!
Also, I have been thinking of asking him about if he has ended his resumed contact w/ the OW. This is ok, right? I have already set the boundary that he should not be talking to her outside of a professional relationship (they work together)... but not sure if I need to follow up on this or not. I feel like we are a bit on shaky ground just newly deciding to avoid divorce & fix what went wrong... so I don't want to mess that up. But I do feel concerned about whether or not he told her they needed to stop talking outside of work.
We have a vacation coming up next week & I've even thought to just keep things light & not about the relationship for a bit... so we can build back a little bit of a good feeling towards each other through the vacation, and then have the more serious talks after that. But then I also have this thing in the back of my mind that is saying- we need to find out what he thinks we need to do to "fix" things & make sure he isn't wanting to just sweep this all under the rug.
Ugh. I wish I wouldn't have come down from the high I was feeling from Tuesday! I knew it wouldn't be easy to rebuild and work on the relationship but I was hoping to not have these panicked feelings back so soon!
H & I seem to be getting a bit more used to each other again (and not just being friendly neighbors) but I still have anxieties about what he is doing when he isn't around me. I also have anxieties about any time he is on his phone & find myself cutting my eyes sideways to see what he is doing on there (not wanting to overtly look like I am always checking on what he is doing).
I wonder what it takes to feel safe in a relationship? When we were working on the affair recovery before & had been through all the counseling, I felt a bit better... I felt pretty certain he was not actively in contact w/ the OW but I still had hard feelings to work through in regards to the affair. And I worried that another one would start up w/o me realizing it.
Now, I don't even know if he has totally cut off communication again w/ the OW... I want to ask & do intend to but I am waiting for a good opportunity. I still feel it is a bit too soon to get into much heavy relationship talk. And maybe I am somewhat hoping he will initiate it? Or he'll just come out & tell me that he has ended contact w/ her or something? I dunno. But if he doesn't, I will as soon as an opening presents itself. But not only the OW, we also need to talk about rebuilding the trust on both sides... I know I damaged his trust & he has his own resentments to work through.
So figuring out how to navigate this all on our own will be quite challenging, I think. I also wonder what he is thinking about all this. Yesterday when we were getting off the phone before we hung up he said, "I love you." I was a bit surprised because even when we were working on the relationship before, he would sometimes say this but mostly he would say, "love you guys" throwing me & the kids all together in one group. So not sure what to think of that. The skeptical side of me says- he is ensuring I stick around & doing/saying what he knows will work. But the hopeful side thinks that maybe he hasn't strayed too far from me during his past 6 week struggle through anger.
HOPE
Not to set you off on another tail spin ... but reading your sitch the red flag for me was how much he put on what you shared/what he discovered, in a way validating and getting himself off the hook for the A. I am not saying stalk his every move ... because A or no A ... you still need to DB this to the letter IMHO.
My advice for you .. A or no A , I know it matters but in the big picture it doesn't. If you detach, 180, GAL you will know soon enough where your H is.... but for now, get out of his head, stop wasting energy on what he is doing, what he is thinking, who he is talking to .... turn the H H H into you you you because YOU can start to control YOU, not H ... you can become stronger and grow if you look in the mirror and think "How can I be better today?" rather than look H's direction and get pissy when he is not doing what you would hope for .... hence NO EXPECTATIONS that you will see tossed around here often.
Hope, get out of the house, out of your H's head ... get out of your comfort zone and go do something fun ... tell no one ... just take some time and live a little this weekend ... roller skate down a hill ... heck do a cartwheel in the middle of a parking lot ... just something you do for a rush FOR YOU.
Thanks, Cali... I appreciate your perspective. I have definitely thought about what you said- that this whole deal was to detract from what he did. But in seeing him go through all the emotions related to what I nearly accused him of doing, I know it has been a major thing for him. He has been more mad about it than I have ever seen him in our 14 years and he has cried about it when we have talked about it (nearly every time) & I have never ever seen him cry prior to this year. Never. He is not a crier and definitely not in front of anyone. So I do know the emotional trauma of what I said was there.
I do think he was tiring of how I was sometimes handling the affair. I would make sarcastic comments or make jabs at him related to the affair. I did have times of making healthy decisions on how I processed everything but I wasn't always so good. So I understand that I was not always making good choices in how I brought my fears or sadness to him.
As far as the GAL, 180, detach... How much of this do you continue doing when both parties want to work on the relationship? I think I need to do something different as I think about all this stuff far too much but if we are working on our marriage, actively, both of us, the last thing I want to do is go out & do lots of stuff outside the home as this is what resulted in his affair in the first place- me withdrawing & finding fun things to do on my own. I am it saying I want to become a recluse & never go anywhere... But now that he wants to fix things, I do not want to go back to my old ways.
As far as 180... It is hard for me to figure this one out. 180 from when? We have been in various stages of our relationship.... From before affair, to recovering from affair, to seriously contemplating divorce (for him it the hurtful thing I said & for me it was all the things he was doing to hurt me in his anger), to now wanting to fix things. We both agree that things were going pretty well before he read what he read (with the exception of my unhealthy ways of dealing w/ the affair) & that was when we were putting all the focus on getting closer & building a better marriage.
I reread parts of the book just now, especially the infidelity chapter & no where in that chapter does she say to GAL... She says to do more things together & build the relationship back. She says to talk about the affair but spend time together not talking about it at all. She definitely says also to look at what caused the affair (ours was me withdrawing due to him being so critical) & address that.
So while I get the GAL, 180, & detaching for the person who has the spouse that isn't wanting to work on the marriage... But at this point, finally, I think my h wants to & has started to make changes to be transparent.
I reread parts of the book just now, especially the infidelity chapter & no where in that chapter does she say to GAL... She says to do more things together & build the relationship back. She says to talk about the affair but spend time together not talking about it at all. She definitely says also to look at what caused the affair (ours was me withdrawing due to him being so critical) & address that.
I have two challenges with Michele's otherwise excellent books when it comes to infidelity. One is that there's only ONE CHAPTER devoted to it, contrasted with the anecdotal evidence on her own forum that would indicate it's present in well over half of the situations presented. And two, that the chapter deals almost entirely from the perspective of a FORMERLY wayward spouse, not a CURRENTLY wayward one. It's mostly about repairing the marriage and rebuilding trust after the wayward spouse has agreed to end their affair. Nothing really at all in there about how to deal with ongoing, secretive, or openly-unrepentant infidelity.
I hear she's writing a new book devoted almost entirely to infidelity. I hope she will clear up some of this, and I look forward to reading it.
Starsky
I reread parts of the book just now, especially the infidelity chapter & no where in that chapter does she say to GAL... She says to do more things together & build the relationship back. She says to talk about the affair but spend time together not talking about it at all. She definitely says also to look at what caused the affair (ours was me withdrawing due to him being so critical) & address that.
I have two challenges with Michele's otherwise excellent books when it comes to infidelity. One is that there's only ONE CHAPTER devoted to it, contrasted with the anecdotal evidence on her own forum that would indicate it's present in well over half of the situations presented. And two, that the chapter deals almost entirely from the perspective of a FORMERLY wayward spouse, not a CURRENTLY wayward one. It's mostly about repairing the marriage and rebuilding trust after the wayward spouse has agreed to end their affair. Nothing really at all in there about how to deal with ongoing, secretive, or openly-unrepentant infidelity.
I hear she's writing a new book devoted almost entirely to infidelity. I hope she will clear up some of this, and I look forward to reading it.
Starsky
I would be interested in reading this as well. I am now not sure what to do since my H has made the efforts for transparency & wants to fix things. But we still have to talk out what that entails. I was hoping to do that when we had a bit more good feelings between us... Like during or after vacation but my anxieties has me questioning what to do. For example, today- texted at 4:03p to ask a question that I needed an answer from him on (non- relationship item). No response. Call him at 4:10 b/c there is a time constraint. No answer. Now it is 4:33p & still no response. Maybe he will say he was tied up in something at work or didn't hear his phone... Possible. But the fact that 3:30-4:30p was the typical time for his interactions has me feeling very anxious about his lack of response. Not sure whether to say I am worried when I do not hear anything from him (as we learned in our counseling to do) or if I just try to get over it and act like I do my care about his lack of response.
Ok, so maybe detaching is a good idea now. I messed up again in how I asked why h didn't answer my call. I cannot seem to calm myself down enough to not make more of a mess of things. Holy cow. What is it going to take to get to the point where I can respond appropriately or not say anything at all? I did manage to my say anything about the receipt... But couldn't manage to ask about the no response w/o sounding accusatory.
Besides detaching, I have figured out my 180. Stopping myself from saying things when I am in a panic & anxious. So my plan is to write it all out to get it out. Then to let it lie. If I need to address is down the road, I can, but I must give it time to settle & not be emotionally charged. I will also distract myself w/ things I enjoy to calm myself. This will be a good practice of self control for myself but also a good change. Must use discipline!
Hope I totally understand the anxiety you're feeling about H, what he's doing or where is he. I was the same way after finding out. It's hard to just let it go. Some things that helped me were journaling & rubber bands. I journaled everyday, still do. About my feelings, the day, whatever I felt like I needed to say. I said it to my journal & not my H. Not until he was receptive to hearing some of it & by that point, I was able to really look back at all my questions, concerns & fears then decide what was really important. Now before I say anything or ask anything I ask myself 'is this going to help my goal & does this get me closer to my goal?' If either is no, I stfu.
And rubber bands helped me from snooping. Whenever it crossed my mind, I snapped one on my wrist. The sting was just enough to jolt the thought loose so I could stop. Snooping didn't help me. There was never enough for an answer, but just enough to bring more questions. And all that did was make me nervous, anxious & I looked needy.
One of my Hs biggest complaints was that he felt ignored, unappreciated & unloved in our M. So while I still have my GAL activities, I make plans for us too. Even if it's just ice cream after dinner away from the house. We make sure everyday to spent at least 30 minutes of us time. Sometimes that's sitting outside having coffee, sometimes it's driving around. The what isn't as important as the do. During that time, I don't ask about us, the R, or his feelings. We talk about our day, what's the plan for tomorrow, anything & nothing. If H brings up us, R, feelings, I let him talk. I don't interrupt, I validate & just listen. And always I thank him for sharing. This has helped my H open up more & has brought us closer. We're still baby stepping our way through. So each positive is one step closer to my goal of a happy, healthy, respectful & equal partnership.
I read a book called After the Affair. It really helped me. Like Starksy said, MWD doesn't have much in her books right now. So I researched & found this one. I look forward to reading MWDs when it comes out.
Hang in there my friend. Baby steps. Breathe. GAL.
Oh, Tweets, I so needed to read your perspective and experience. I think at this point, what you suggest is really the best answer. I just pushing H away by what I have been doing. He is convinced that I cannot change & I know I am responsible for that.
I will take your suggestions to heart & really work on me.
hope, just read through your sitch. Not much to offer in terms of advice since your in a very different place than I am in terms of the R. As for you withdrawing and doing too much GAL, in your case I would think it would be more of the same and could cause issues. Its common advice for many of us on here because our S's don't want anything to do with us anymore and we need to find ourselves. If you can do that in a way that avoids the previous issues, great.
I wouldn't worry about that receipt and the 45 mins missing too much (to the point of allowing it to cause you to backslide).
I found two receipts from W during a time when she should have been at work. One for an ice-creme shop an hour away and then another 15 mins later at her work. No way she physically could have been in both places so the receipt was likely dated/timed wrong. This was from two locations that should have reliable registers so the fact your H's receipt was from a road side farm adds to the mystery.
Since my sitch is different I have to ignore those things for now completely because my W is fully checked out of our M and in an A. I'm sure those on here that are following similar paths can help you figure out a way to tackle that issue.
Good luck.
So sorry, Fogg, that your W is not wanting to work on things & in an active affair.
such a difficult place to be in.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I definitely struggle some w/ the GAL & think I need to do it carefully.
On other news, H is still mad at me for my questioning on friday. So it feels very much like where we were before he said he wanted to fix things with the exception of him wearing his ring & I believe his devices are still unlocked. I guess it will take time to show him I am going to stop asking accusatory questions. I really hate that I couldn't keep my mouth shut.
I was thinking of saying that I have been successful at not asking questions for a few things that made me nervous but I figured saying this would just seem like a desperate attempt to get him moving back towards me.
H still physically distant. In the middle of the night I woke up and couldn't sleep. I began to get angry with him. I started to think of him as being half in and half out. He partly did some things to look like he is interested in fixing things, but he is not 100%. If he were 100% these are some additional things he would do-
He would have said first thing on the phone Friday : sorry for not answering when you called, I got caught up in xyz at work.
He would tell me who he was wrtting to whenever he is taping crazily at his phone.
He would not bring his phone into the bathroom & remain in the bathroom for 30-45 min w/ phone.
He would call throughout the day and check in.
He would communicate his schedule (when he plans to go in & leave work)
Yesterday, he was so careful to communicate all these phone calls/texts that he was making on his on call work phone. He was on call & I knew he'd have to deal w/ work stuff this weekend. But I just wanted to say- I do not think you would be so stupid as to call/text with OW on your work phone that is monitored by your work! Why are you not that way with your personal phone? Now granted, he is not getting calls & texts on his personal phone but he is typing plenty on it. Last night (when I woke up & couldn't go back to sleep) something vibrated. Could have been his phone or his watch. Could have been his phone vibrating something weather related or some other random thing. But it could also be a message from OW and that thought is what keeps me from sleeping. He could have easily just said- it was xyz.
So last night I was just thinking- he must not want me to feel safe in this relationship. And the fact that he withdraws when mess up how I ask him a question (being more accusatory than I intended) & "punishes" me.
The
Actions speak MUCH louder than words.
Actions speak MUCH louder than words.
Agreed.
H still physically distant. In the middle of the night I woke up and couldn't sleep. I began to get angry with him. I started to think of him as being half in and half out. He partly did some things to look like he is interested in fixing things, but he is not 100%. If he were 100% these are some additional things he would do-
He would have said first thing on the phone Friday : sorry for not answering when you called, I got caught up in xyz at work.
He would tell me who he was wrtting to whenever he is taping crazily at his phone.
He would not bring his phone into the bathroom & remain in the bathroom for 30-45 min w/ phone.
He would call throughout the day and check in.
He would communicate his schedule (when he plans to go in & leave work)
Yesterday, he was so careful to communicate all these phone calls/texts that he was making on his on call work phone. He was on call & I knew he'd have to deal w/ work stuff this weekend. But I just wanted to say- I do not think you would be so stupid as to call/text with OW on your work phone that is monitored by your work! Why are you not that way with your personal phone? Now granted, he is not getting calls & texts on his personal phone but he is typing plenty on it. Last night (when I woke up & couldn't go back to sleep) something vibrated. Could have been his phone or his watch. Could have been his phone vibrating something weather related or some other random thing. But it could also be a message from OW and that thought is what keeps me from sleeping. He could have easily just said- it was xyz.
So last night I was just thinking- he must not want me to feel safe in this relationship. And the fact that he withdraws when mess up how I ask him a question (being more accusatory than I intended) & "punishes" me.
The
Hope .... where do you live? Wait do not answer that ... because you do not live in a state, a county nor a house/apt/condo ... you live in your H's head .... 24/7
He does this that , his him ... see how I picked out all the H's up there??? STOP OBSESSING it will drive you mad.
Can you control your H? No .... but looks like you sure as heck are going to try and this will do what ... yup .. send H running for the hills, now if thats your plan then by all means go for it .. but if you would like your H to come into the M willingly you are going to have to back off and allow him to decide on his own free will to do so, you can not 'trick' him into it .. nor can you demand him to ... God gave us all free will and sometimes its a real tough nut to crack.
DETACH...GAL...180...PMA ... focus on the small stuff and take some small steps, try to remember "Is this about me, or H" ... only focus on the parts about you for now.
^^^this!! Hope listen to Cali. Get out of your Hs head. That's like driving around in a foreign country with every sign written in a language you don't speak, with a GPS that's stuck 2 countries away. You just drive haplessly turning here & there, staying perpetually lost. Take the exit you've been given(DB) & get off the H brain highway! Sweetie, you could be Mother Teresa, Martha Stewart & Jenna Jameson rolled into one & it wouldn't matter right now. Your H is stuck in his own time warp. You can't argue, beg, bed, reason or accuse him out of it. Quit mind reading. You don't have the translator for it. Better yourself, for you. Yes my H felt all of those things I said. But that doesn't mean I focus solely on him. I have my own issues to work through at the same time. I have to have my own life, my own individuality, my own identity, my own happiness. You are hinging your happiness on him. If he would do XYZ, I'd be happy. It doesn't work that way. He's not responsible for your happiness, you aren't responsible for his. Self happiness enhances the happiness of the couple, Youve seen it said here a million times, be the woman only a fool would leave.
(((((Hugs))))))
Ugh! I know you are both right. Yesterday we took a class together (non marriage related) taught by someone we know. (We talked minimally... I'm sure we look like an odd married pair w/ how little we smile and interact these days). I got a lot of positive attention in the class (by the male instructor) and it felt good. I worked hard on learnibg the skills taught in the class. That felt good. I felt pretty darn good yesterday & thought pretty much exactly that- a woman only a fool would leave. I felt capable, competent, attractive, and someone that could easily find someone else. But then when I woke up last night, the doubt set in again. I started thinking about H & what he was doing. Today I've been getting mad at him for withdrawing emotionally again... I have kept a lid on it & have had only positive friendly interactions w/ him... But I am already catching myself practicing a conversation about his giving me the cold shoulder as punishment just as I used to give the silent treatment as punishment (and he quickly told me that wouldn't fly early on in our relationship). So why can he draw that line so long ago in our relationship as a unhealthy move but I cannot draw the line at what he is doing now? He was opening up to me Tuesday-thursday until I freaked out on him Friday. Then he took that away. That is not ok.
Slept really well last night. But I did have a dream about hearing my H talking on the phone downstairs & I snooped to listen in to see what he was saying & to try and figure out who he was talking to. Shows that my unconscious mind is even preoccupied with what he is doing!
This morning he left the house w/o even saying bye. Whatever. He is acting so ridiculous ... it seems so weird that last week he was saying we can fix this.
I am GAL this week... tonight & probably tomorrow night I'll be out of the house doing things for me. I also have some volunteer things set up for when we get back from vacation. So I am making an effort in this area.
Trying to get out of his head & to stop worrying so much about all that. This is difficult. I think because if you care about saving your marriage, it is only natural to think about what your spouse is thinking, going through, needing, etc. It doesn't help that we have been an avoid-avoid type relationship (found this out in our marital counseling) and this got us into a lot of our problems before. We both stuffed our resentments & then exploded on each other when we couldn't hold it in any longer. So we tended to avoid conflict and discussions about the conflicts whenever possible. So then in marriage counseling we learned how to address these things. And now... I am suppose to back off & wait for him to use the counseling skills & address his issues? I just have so much conflicting information ... my counselor is even suggesting doing something different. So no wonder I am at war with myself on what my best approach should be.
You might want to think about creating a new thread before this one locks.