Ok here is my new thread.
As I have posted it was Anniversary No. 21 received a couple of presents and received flowers at my work Bird of paradise which has always been our traditional flower for anniversaries. Card said Happy Anniversary Love H
so that is progress maybe. I thanked him.
I am hoping this is going in a good direction yet I must not get expectations up.
What do you all think?
GAL is going good and I am feeling more positive about myself and H in that I realize he is going to do what he wants/needs to do and I am not going to try and fix meddle or worry about what he is doing.
I was hoping for dinner on Anniversary. I guess I should count myself lucky that I got a couple of presents and flowers.
Nothing says you can't do a nice dinner on your A, does it. You don't need him for that. I know that even if you knew you shouldn't expect it, once you have the though, it is still a let down to not get it. Do something nice for yourself today, whether that is treating yourself to a nice dinner or whatever else floats your boat. Celebrate that you are doing a great job and should be proud of yourself.
Happy Good for You Day!
You are so positive I love it. Thanks you are right. I am.
Definitely take yourself out to dinner or a movie on your anniversary. It's a time to pamper and enjoy yourself a bit even if your spouse isn't into doing something on that special day.
so when I got home last night H had mowed my yard and then he stayed (my S asked him to) for dinner and I made dinner and then we went on motorcycle ride.
It was ok I can say I felt H was not enthusiastic about being there but he stayed. It seems at night he like switches back to some sort of depressed, mopey, angry person. Can't quite put my finger on it but I use to ask him what is wrong not I just go about things and figure if he didn't really want to stay for dinner or ride then he could speak up and that is his problem.
I made it through the day it was fairly good not great. I feel good though I didn't expect anything and still don't and it seems that is the good way to be.
I have plans for tonight with S and tomorrow is Yoga in Park. I am feeling pretty positive about myself. I think it is very important for all of us to take care of ourselves first. Once you realize that, you feel much better.
Thank you 25years for drilling that into my head.
H told me yesterday he would never go back to our cabin until my mom dies. Real nice.
There is the fact that my mom is very critical and was of anything H did when working on the cabin.
So he said he won't go back until s3he is going because he got blamed for everything. I thought ok so he is talking about the future but bad about how he feels.
We had a good day yesterday 4 hour motorcycle ride and then we took S to movie and did some sparklers. 9:15 he said he was going home. I thought it went well he was joking etc.
I remembered though no expectations and sure enough today we have heard nothing from him.
This is where gal plays a big part i use to be really upset and feel so down. Today I am slightly bothered by it but my day and evening will go on and I will not contact him.
I don't get it but I can't fix it.
We had a good day yesterday 4 hour motorcycle ride and then we took S to movie and did some sparklers. 9:15 he said he was going home. I thought it went well he was joking etc.
I remembered though no expectations and sure enough today we have heard nothing from him.
This is where gal plays a big part i use to be really upset and feel so down. Today I am slightly bothered by it but my day and evening will go on and I will not contact him.
I don't get it but I can't fix it.
2 things. First, WELL DONE. Your goal is to demonstrate (by example, not words)
that he can relax and enjoy your company. Period. Nothing else attached to that.
Then you build on it. A few hours of fun turns into a full day, an evening, etc.
Secondly, I hope you'll come to see that you do NOT have to "get it", to accept it.
You may never understand or wrap your brain around his choices. To this day I do not "get" why or how my h could choose a job or a place (or an "adventure!") over being with his wife and children.
I do not "get" that it took a year away part time
and then another year away full time, FAR away, for him to see our value and worth and how crummy and lonely he'd be without us.
I had to release him to his task, without understanding it at all.
Maybe that is your task??
I don't know. I am simply pondering out loud.
Make sense?
25 years I understand it does make sense thanks. I am working on the get it part that I won't get it. Lol
I do have a question is it weird or normal to have a good day and then hear nothing the next day?
I'm not 25 Years, but I will chime in. Yes, it's very normal for them to come have a good day w/you and the family and then be quiet for a while. What happens is that they actually warm up to doing things w/you and then later on they remember that you are the "enemy" that made them unhappy, etc. Many of them do this. Continue to drop the friendship crumbs, keep things light and simple and he'll come around again very soon. Leave him be for now and allow him to come to you.
Job thanks will do. That was what I was thinking as well just needed to make sure I was thinking correctly.
25 years thanks also I am not sure I would have made it this far without your advice and you calling me out so to speak.
You did well. It would have been worrisome if he had wanted to stay, as your reaction suggests that you would have let him. I don't think that would have been helpful at this point. Slow and repeat light happy times is much better than jumping too fast and having someone get cold feet. You want him to come back to stay, and him waking up the next morning feeling trapped or whatever those feelings are floating around in his skull and running would be bad.
Little bites and stepping away with both wanting more is exactly what you want. You did that. You should not read his invisibility as anything other than expected. It is a pattern of behavior you are looking for as evidence and no one event (or its absence).
You also may want to plan for a GAL activity for the day after an activity w/ your H. Helps with the let-down of withdrawal. But you can also mention what you have going on, and have something to cut him a bit short and leave him wanting more if he should ask you to do something the next day. He realizes that if he wants that, he's got to recognize what he has done to your M.
Glad it went well & you all had fun.
So I kind of figured I needed to get out and do something so in the late afternoon I took s and we went to the beach and played around for a couple of hours. You are right Asitis that really helped. I had been cleaning my house and that wasn't working, needed fun.
H text me before the beach and just said he would watch S this week. I said ok and that was it.
I did text him today and just said my shoulders were sunburned for the ride that was it. Probably shouldn't have but felt like he contacted me yesterday first so I would reciprocate with today. Good idea or not?
Oh by the way no I did not want him to spend the night!! I would have two months ago but I have changed a little since then and that would not have been good for me. I need to see a few things from him (actions) before I would do that. Like more communication and asking me how my day is and spending more time together.
I'm glad you got out of the house and enjoy the beach w/your son.
Glad to see he texted and will watch your son this week. As for texting him about your sunburn, I wouldn't have done so. Why? Because if he were interested in your well being, etc., he would have inquired. Allow this man to come to you and that means stepping back from the urge to communicate w/him. He needs to "sense" that you are going on w/your life and that you aren't sitting there waiting from him to contact you all of the time.
The only way that he's going to be curious about you is if you don't share too much of your life. It's okay to share what is going on w/your son. For now, only communicate w/him about your son and financial issues, and emergencies only. He can't become curious about you if you are telling him about what you are or aren't doing voluntarily.
Job: That makes sense and I kind of thought that after I hit send of course! I do think I am too available.
We will be on vacation for 9 days my S and I and I do not plan on texting him but will answer his text if he text me. What do you think?
No texting today H showed up for S. I am not sure how it went today or if he was gone the usually 4 hours to the gym. Will update later.
h was in a depressed gloomy mood but I didn't ask why, what or how come. In fact I was talking and he looked at me and said "what" with a look of I was bothering him so I said alright and left the room. After I left in a few minutes he called me back to look at something on tv. Weird.
Not letting it bother me. I have heard some good advice here and it is what I followed today if they disrespect walk away and I did.
No texting - I have done.
GAL - Yep H found out S and I went to beach on Sunday by S telling him about a snake he saw at the beach (yuck) and H said oh when did you go there and S said Sunday and H said hmmm.
I think i have bad news I think there is a ow. Saturday night after H dropped us off he was headed home but there are gas charge and another charge in complete opposite direction.
Sunday morning there is a coffee charge in the same area and this is where the gal from last summer that he was texting lives and I think her H was out of town.
I feel like he went over there and spent night and then got coffee over by my house on way home. It's a little out of way to get coffee in the morning I mean he could ha e gone a different way back to his house then coming over toward in. Coffee place is just a mile from my house
Am I overly suspicious? Someone told me if he wanted to hide it he could have paid cash. I know he had a 100 on him from the movie
I wanted to confront him i did not cuz I know it would be controlling but it does bother me. Thoughts or advice e?
Just checking in on your sitch. I think you and your s not texting you H during vacation is a great idea. My s and I did the same thing during our vacation.
As for the ow, don't ask. I know it's hard and not knowing can cause so much anxiety but he will turn it around on you if push for answers.
Keep pushing forward with your GAL activities and go on your great vacation with your son.
H informed me today that he was mad because we were going on vacation and just leaving him with nothing. I told him that he last fall told us that we should go to the lake for the 4th on vacation just me and Kael and he would stay here (this was before separation or anything)
I reminded him of this and he said "do whatever you want". So I said you never really do anything with me/or S anyway. H got really mad and said the famous "I am not doing this now" I said (and this was where I should have shut it down) where do you think we are at in this and he said "we have good days and bad days.
Thoughts and opinions?
Should I just let it die out I really want to ask what he sees for the future. Thoughts on this? Would it be too much pressure sometimes I get sick of the kid gloves approach.
Oh I forgot to add that yesterday H was at my house and I had started packing for S and my trip on Friday.
H said today "I noticed you are already packing for your trip in 20 years you never did that you always waited until the last minute and now you start the year I don't go." I said I it was my staging area and I am not quite packed yet.
I said (and this was where I should have shut it down) where do you think we are at in this and he said "we have good days and bad days.
Thoughts and opinions?
I think this applies here
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf
got it. H makes comments and it drags me in. Like he wss talking about making a hot tub a couple of weeks ago for our yard (yes he doesn't live there wtheck) so today I asked him if he was going to make it and he said we both know that really isn't going to happen. So why did you say it then was what I was thinking. So that led to what do you mean by that? and that was where we got to with the future because H talks about future and then retracts.
I know that is what MLC is and I let myself get suckered. thanks for the reminder and back to reality.
What is with H getting all mad because S and I are gong away for vacation over the 4th and leaving him as he says "with nothing"? He said we should go last year. He doesn't make plans with us. Did he mean maybe that he wouldn't see S over the 4th?
I am confused by this and H said today "I noticed you are already packing for your trip in 20 years you never did that you always waited until the last minute and now you start the year I don't go." I said I it was my staging area and I am not quite packed yet.
And what does he mean by good days and bad days? We don't even see each other very much and when we do we don't fight. If he is in a mood he comes with it and I don't say anything. I didn't ask its like he is speaking in code and will not elaborate on anything.
I know it is his problem but when he says it out loud to me it makes me question it. So probably just validate but I disagree. He is making his own bad days.
SK,
I am just catching up on your sitch. I'm not an expert, however, reading your thread made me want to chime in.
My best advice is that if you try to analyze and decipher every word, phrase or action of your h, you will literally feel insane. Put head in freezer, slam door, and repeat. Stop for your own benefit.
Who knows what he means? Try not to read too much into it. My xh used to talk about the future and "we" frequently as well and you just can't allow yourself to get wrapped up in that. In regards to the packing early, you could have just smiled, shrugged, and said "S and I are excited and just wanted to get it done" or something of the sort. You don't really owe your h an explanation and it is possible he will find fault in EVERYTHING. My xh too would say we were going to have fun without him. Then he would say he had been "traumatized" by every vacation or trip we took. You rationalize with the irrational.
Detach. Seriously. Focus on you and S. I know it's difficult although GAL is a great thing. Have a little fun. Let your h revel in his pity party.
Hang in there.
Georgia is correct...you can sit there and analyze every word or action...but there will be no rhyme or reason for what they say and why they say it. They think out loud in many instances. So what if you are packing early. You both are excited and want to get a way for a bit. Nothing says that you have to continue w/old habits all of the time.
Continue to detach and keep the focus on you and your son and your upcoming trip. Leave the man/child at home sulking.
Thanks for all the good advice. I feel better already. You are right. H is just on a roll today.
He borrowed shop vac and I say oh you taking the vac and the response back was fine I will bring YOUR shop vac back. Just make a list of stuff I can use. Nevermind I won't use anything.
I replied I am sorry you feel that way that was never my intention.
^^ X3
I feel you are way to much in H's head, what is he doing, thinking, the coffee shop thing, the hot tub deal ... does any of this really matter? Nope .... he is in crisis and there is no making sense out of it, you are trying to take the cooked spaghetti and make it all straight to make sense of it and it just does not work that way.
Another thing, asking him if he is going to build the hot tub .. that add pressure ... plus it was nothing more than a temp check by you hoping he says yes so you can feel warm and fuzzy that he may come home soon ... he needs to get through this on his own, in the mean time you need to detach ... you will go nuts as GB put it if you don't
Cali I think you are right I think I have taken a step backward today. Time to regroup. Good call on the warm fuzzy I think I was testing the waters, hard not to when they throw a bone. What a needy mess I was today and I was doing so good. Grrrrrr. I had gone a month plus without doing that.
lol H came over today and wanted me to look at a letter he got re his job and promotion etc... wanted my opinion. Last night he was so mad and angry that he left S early before I got home because he didn't want to see me. He does this when he is mad at me.
This morning he was like a shiny new penny. Nice etc oh wanting to help me get ready for our trip that he was so mad about yesterday. WTHeck? Geez.
I read on someone's post that they were going to eat popcorn and watch the show, me too.
I read on someone's post that they were going to eat popcorn and watch the show, me too.
Thats actually "Job"'s favorite activity
I like it. It actually helps it is like watching a movie sometimes in 3D and I am in it!!
It is so funny how they can be so angry one day and so nice and normal the next. H has been so helpful this morning but you never know what is around the bend.
Can't wait for vacation I am very excited to get on the road and have 9 days away it will be good for all of us I think.
My S told me today he heard dad talking with a woman on the phone talking about his job and a movie etc. Having a real hard time keeping mouth shut tonight and not asking about R. I know it would be wrong to do so sobi came here instead. Help
How do you know the difference between mlc and just a plain old affair
MLC is all about depression and confusion and they do things that are totally out of the ordinary. Affairs don't have confusion in the mix. Take some time out of your day and do a search on affairs and you will see that affairs do not have the same make up of MLC and the affairs that generally come along w/MLC.
Should I just let it die out I really want to ask what he sees for the future. Thoughts on this? Would it be too much pressure sometimes
I get sick of the kid gloves approach.
Hi skydive, I just got back from a trip so I missed a few weeks...and I'm not caught up but felt this was a good time to address something.
There are several reasons NOT to ask him about the relationship and where he thinks things are going. (Plus, dear, I do not think you have taken a "kid's glove" approach and I doubt he does either. You text him, you don't really sound relaxed around him, your GAL needs to increase a lot. From where I sit, you seem to be waiting for him to call or text, and you have expectations that sprout up at each interaction. Or, At least that's how I'm reading it).
As we've said before, there's no faster way to cool a relationship than by taking its temperature. So, please Stop taking the temperature of the R.
Moreover, this^^ would be about the WORST time to ask him, since you know he's already ticked off about the vacation. NEVER ask a WAS about the relationship when you are arguing or they are upset already. That's literally asking for trouble.
So, Why ask NOW?
Oh, b/c you are really just curious about OW and that's the real reason - yes?
But really think this out, (asking yourself"what is the goal of saying this??")
& you will realize that your goal will NOT be furthered by asking.
As for the OW, a few people around here urge LBSs to snoop and spy.
I'm not one of them.
I follow the DB philosophy and what MWD teaches (which is NOT to snoop and you can review her reasons for that if you like, b/c it's in the books)
and I do not see a reason to snoop. I see LOTS of reasons NOT to snoop and how it can backfire big time.
The only situation for snooping in my humble opinion, at least for me,
is when an affair would unquestionably end the marriage. Because then, and only then, would knowing of the affair make a difference to my course of action. Versus just causing me pain, but not changing my plans.
But let's say I know I have issues of my own to work on, regardless. I'd want to become the better choice. So I'd keep the focus on MY WORK and MYSELF and creating my own happiness and GAL, and I like to think I'd help save my marriage....
WHEREAS--
if I work to become my best AND I do that, and I'm at my best for real,
but EVEN THEN my h had an affair, then I'd leave the marriage
- b/c there's nothing for me to work on or do, to help us
and I could not live in an open marriage.
So yes, If I had no work of my own to do b/c I was already at my best as a partner, but for some reason I had suspicions, then and only then would I snoop to figure out if an affair was happening - and if so, I'd file. No turning back, boom, done.
But as long as I had work of my own to do, no, I would not snoop.
For ME, only if an affair was a total deal breaker, would I bother snooping and it wold only be a total deal breaker if I knew I was at my best as a wife.
I cannot tell you what to do or how to become your best self. Some men and women cannot tolerate an affair no matter how much they themselves know they'd failed their spouses. Some just say "no can do" and usually it stems from a childhood issue or perhaps they know they do not have it in themselves to forgive. And I am not passing judgement on them for that. In fact, I would urge you to file for divorce NOW if you know you won't ever get past this separation
and or, an affair. It'll eat at you and then you'll become a bitter angry woman and no one wins from that choice even if you do, somehow, remain legally married.
I CAN say that if you know down deep that an affair is not necessarily a deal breaker, then why snoop?
Why not work on you and only you, for now? Regardless of whether he's interested in OW or is actively in an affair with her, why not become the better choice?
If she's married too, chances are high that this will run its course and end anyhow.
Let's say that happens, just for the sake of discussion.
Let's say the affair ends for whatever reason and so, then, he reviews his options...
What do you want him to see, when he turns your way?
A bitter woman who has her arms crossed (literally & figuratively) b/c she is hurt and resentful, and b/c she does NOT Forgive,
OR
a woman he never should have left in the first place?
How do you know the difference between mlc and just a plain old affair
Perhaps you should ask yourself what difference it makes, to Your course of action.
And just so I know, why do you ask? Is it b/c you believe that if it's an MLC it means somehow, that he's more likely to return to the marriage? If you believe that, (I e that he's more likely to return) can you tell me why?
I can only tell you that I wasted a year of my life asking about MLC, a year I'll never get back. I did not have a "different route" if it was MLC, versus whatever else it might have been...but
It would have been a much better expenditure of my time to work on creating a better happier life for myself and my children, a year earlier.
Because when I finally stopped staring at and wondering what my h was doing or thinking or planning or feeling,
and instead put the focus where it belonged, = ME, it was the only thing that made me happy and feeling in control of my life
AND paradoxically, because it was not about getting a reaction from my h,
it was the trigger for his awakening. Maybe that's what it took for him to see that he was losing far more than I was losing, or maybe I was just happier and thus, more attractive to him,
or maybe he was going to wake up anyhow, eventually.
All I can say for sure is that when I put the focus of my life on MY LIFE
I became a happier, more content and more loving woman.
What is with H getting all mad because S and I are gong away for vacation over the 4th and leaving him as he says "with nothing"? He said we should go last year. He doesn't make plans with us. Did he mean maybe that he wouldn't see S over the 4th?
I am confused by this and H said today "I noticed you are already packing for your trip in 20 years you never did that you always waited until the last minute and now you start the year I don't go." I said I it was my staging area and I am not quite packed yet.
So he has noticed a change in you, that he feels is for the better? So why not validate that you can change and in fact, are changing?
Depending on how valid the claim is, and whether you care about it or not,
you could say a number of things, including:
"Yes well, it's probably about time I do"...
"Just goes to show you can learn something new after the age of X"
"H, if you want me to say that you were right, I will. B/c it turns out that packing ahead does lessen stress."
Make sure you wink or laugh or treat it lightly, so you don't seem heavy handed with it, and it may make it easier to say anyhow. Plus you do not want his comment to escalate into a fight.
If he notices other changes you can always use my favorite mantra
"if I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
That^^ shows change is possible. It also diffuses and keeps things from morphing into an argument or attack. And it doesn't make you a doormat.
As for the rest of the mind reading, we can't help you there. I'd remind you not to try so hard to understand the commentary, which changes anyhow.
IF & when he files for divorce
OR says he wants to reconcile,
you'll know.
Til then, please keep the focus back on YOU and your GAL. It sure makes this ordeal a lot more bearable. Trust me on that.
25years:
Back from vacation, 9 days. Read your posts and believe you to be correct some answers to your questions are as follows:
1. I wanted to know the difference between MLC and an affair because I read somewhere that if it is an affair it usually means a final exit from the marriage and with MLC its a toss up and they may come back.
2. I guess I haven't decided if OW would be a deal breaker. Maybe.
I guess that means for now no snooping. I really don't snoop anyway I am curious about what he does with all his time but I also know that it is not my business.
I have asked him about amounts of cash that I see him withdraw from our joint account. I don't know the db rule on this but he does get mad because he thinks I am checking up on him. I really don't care where he spends it but we are running two households and money is tight. What if he is hiding cash? Of course when I ask him I don't expect him to say that I guess I am just trying to let him know I don't have my blinders on to the money part. Thoughts on this or how to better handle?
Skydive,
Did the cash withdrawals just start happening or has he always taken cash out. My H is doing this too and there is PA. He never withdrew cash before. If you have not already done so, I would take steps to protect finances.
BW
25years: you called it yes I was mind reading before vacation. I did some back stepping before I left.
I had a chance to refocus while gone and not having to deal with him and my S and I had a great vacation to the extent I didn't want to come back and deal with H and his stuff.
I got into town and by the way we only received two text from H while on vacation saying he hoped we had a nice vacation. When I got back I got a nasty little text saying I was doing a "bang up job of it and it was so nice of me to call him and let him know we were home" (even though he knew we would be back on Sunday. I sent text back saying he was doing a great job too and that he could pick up his phone and call us to see if we were back.
He also raked me over the coals because I did not have S call him. (I didn't because I assumed he would text or call S via cell phone to my cell phone and talk to him since he was the parent). Plus when we are at home we can go 2-3 days without hearing from him.
I felt very angry that he thought it should all fall on me to do all of the communicating.
25years I had a lot of time to think and I can say that I was a lot lighter and happier without H. I feel sorry that we can't make this work for now but you are right about living my life which I do well when I don't have to deal with him so I just have to find a way to do that with us living in the same town.
He always withdrew some here and there and I never paid attention. so I don't know if it is because I am paying attention now or if there is more going on now.
I would see a lawyer to get some information about how you can protect finances in the event things go sour.
I would not read too much into your hs' texts b/c I think he was jealous that you got to have fun without him.
He may believe that even though eh wants you to be "happy", he really wants you to pine away for him, waiting and waiting and NOT having independent fun without him AND with son!!!
Let that roll off your back; of course it bothers him that he didn't get to control everything b/c he is pretty much in control of what happens to the family and marriage.
The cash withdrawals make it easier to hide a PA and any other purchases he'll make.
You also ought to take out some cash for yourself in case he goes totally bonkers.
Don't spend it, put it somewhere safe and consult a lawyer for some information which you do Not need to act on, but knowledge is power.
You need do nothing with that information, but having it is empowering.
Make sense?
Thanks 25years I have and I am going to set aside some $.
I think you are correct about the jealous because we had so much fun and guess what, we are going back again maybe two more times. Its refreshing to be away from H. He is a dark cloud looming over my head when he is around and I want to be out from beneath it.
I am getting more independent and stronger every day and as you can tell I come here but not as often as I am getting to a good place in my life without H. I want him to figure this out for himself and I don't want him around if he is going to be all depressed and gloom and doom it brought me down and being away for 9 days really showed me that.
Thank you so much for your great advise as always.
Just an update there has been no change in his attitude. He is still very depressed acting like someone sucked the fun out of him and he used to be the most fun guy ever. He doesn't joke, laugh anything it just so weird.
I am doing good. I have finally gotten the hang of GAL and I also only think about H maybe once a day or twice if I have to see him. You may think geez that's a lot but compared to where I was it is not. I used to think about it 24/7 and try to find ways or whys of what I could do to fix it or what he is thinking . Now I don't care.
Just for all those out there who are where I was and I didn't think I would ever ever stop thinking about H all the time, you will stop.
You sound like the work in progress that you want to be, and that's great.
Keep on keeping on, know that you will have some bad times and backslides, but you CAN manage this.
And just so I'm clear, you have spoken to a L? I hope so.
((( )))
I have. I know this is divorce busting but I also realized that I am not going to wait forever.
I have gotten out and I have met a few people one that in particular that is a friend for now. I am getting stronger and more independent every day. I know now that I deserve to be treated with respect and kindness as I would do for H. I have learned some things along the way mainly that people can be independent and married at the same time but you also need to do things together which H didn't and doesn't want to do.
There has been no change really in our R and no I don't ask. Some days it seems a tiny better and then H will go 3-5 days and no contact. I am still trying to hang in there but I am not obsessing about it anymore. I am having some fun.
Kind of at a place where what happens happens?
25years I have been monitoring H for almost 90 days now and there has been no change sometimes it is worse and I get no responses from him even about our S.
I am trying to hang in there but and I guess I have nothing to lose since he is already gone and a D would just make it permanent.
At least I have accepted it and I am not living in limbo anymore like I was even a couple of months ago. Its like it is just sitting out there and I forget about it and then H shows up and I am like oh yeah there this still here.
Thoughts?
I'm sorry to say this, but...90 days ins't that long. Yes, it appears to be a long time to you, but to him...it's just like yesterday.
There are going to be times that you won't hear from him and the more you send messages to him, the more likely he's not going to answer them. You are pursuing him. I know you want him to know about your son, but step back a bit and be still for a while. If you remain still and quiet for a bit and allow him to realize that you aren't calling or sending messages, he just might get curious and contact you. Unless you have an absolute emergency of any kind, be still. Okay?
If you have truly accepted that he's gone, then let him go. I'm not saying divorce him, but leave him be. Live your life as if he's not going to return. Live your life to the fullest and be there for your son. Right now, you are the strong and supportive parent that your son needs. His father, well...he's out to lunch for a while.
Can you pretend that your h is on a trip to Mars and can't contact you for a while? This may help you detach more if you can think in those terms.
Er...job, H is ON Mars.
Wonka,
You and I know that...but she needs to think it too. If she thinks that he is far away, she might be able to curb her communications to him for a bit.
He is on Mars. What I am saying is I think i am done being treated like a second rate person. I have become indifferent and I feel that he is playing a game because all of a sudden he wants overnights with S and my L said he could now be establishing his father of the year side before he files for the D and try for shared care and I don't want that.
It's been a year since the problems began and 6 months since he moved out. I know this is divorce busting but I think i am done.
I pretty muchtold him so tonight that i was tired of it and i know i can do it on my own etc he was real mad go figure and for once I just don't care anymore. I expect him to file anytime and I am ready for it.
Sounds like you've detached quite a bit and that's a huge step in the right direction to taking back your life and living it to the fullest. Continue moving forward.
Whatever you decide to do, we will support you.
Thank you Job. It's been a long painful process but I am at peace when I know I don't have to deal with H and situ and that's how I have come to the conclusion that I am done for now.
H came over this morning and was nice and didn't mention a word of what I texted him last night it was like it didn't even happen. I can't even believe it. I had told him about how I notice he doesn't wear his ring and has to put it on when he gets to house, how he has put forth no effort in resolving marital issues and I want to move forward with my life etc. He didn't say a word and he was wearing ring.
What the heck? Seriously its like it is some game or if he ignores it it will go away. I am still planning to move forward.
This is somewhat typical behavior of the MLCer. He figures that you are just spouting off in a rant and will calm down and everything will be okay once again. That's why we always say "actions speak louder than words".
Continue planning to move forward w/or w/o him. If he truly wants to do the hard, necessary work to win your trust and respect back, he will do it, even if it takes years from now.
Thanks for all the support. My L is gone next week so I plan to meet with L the following week to get things going and then S and I are going on vacation and I am leaving H with the papers.
Just checking in with no news, no change.
I am still real confused at time and sometimes angry at H because he comes over to house and mows yard, and does things, fix breakfast for S and asks if I want some but says nothing else about us or R or anything.
I know I should appreciate it but it makes me feel weird like and confused. If he wants a D then ask for it or if he wants to be at home then talk about it but coming and doing things and then leaving makes me upset.
I am better if he doesn't come at all. Any suggestions?
There are going to be times that you won't hear from him and the more you send messages to him, the more likely he's not going to answer them. You are pursuing him. I know you want him to know about your son, but step back a bit and be still for a while. If you remain still and quiet for a bit and allow him to realize that you aren't calling or sending messages, he just might get curious and contact you. Unless you have an absolute emergency of any kind, be still. Okay?
If you have truly accepted that he's gone, then let him go. I'm not saying divorce him, but leave him be. Live your life as if he's not going to return. Live your life to the fullest and be there for your son. Right now, you are the strong and supportive parent that your son needs. His father, well...he's out to lunch for a while.
Can you pretend that your h is on a trip to Mars and can't contact you for a while? This may help you detach more if you can think in those terms.
I think I just found my answer to my last post in this one from you Job. There is nothing to do other then let him come and do what he is going to do (I never ask and today he said to me why didn't you call or text me and ask me/) I said because you don't answer text or calls. He said yes I do. I said nothing.
I don't because I don't want to ask him for anything.
I need some input on why they do this where they come and maintain home a little and then disappear is this to appease their guilt? Does it mean anything?
There are no standard answers to why they come and maintain a home and then disappear again, but here are my opinions:
1) it's a routine and something they don't really have to think about what they are doing;
2) it's a good way to stay connected to their former life;
3) it's a good way to keep an eye on what you are doing; or
4) it could very well be guilt.
I wouldn't sit and try to analyze why he's there doing the usual house maintenance. I would be happy he's doing it and be sure to thank him. Now, if it gets to the point you don't want him there, then you will have to tell him and set your boundaries...but remember, if you tell him you don't want him mowing the grass, then you'll have to do it or hire someone.
Here's my take as a former recovered MLCer badass...
We touch and go because we are attracted to comforting beacon from the Lighthouse that shines through the darkness. Then it becomes too much for us and we retreat. Remember our coping skills are broken and it takes a long time to get our chit together.
Wonka: Does this mean anything then? Because he asks me to make a list of things that I want done but I feel if I do that may make me look needy or appease his guilt for leaving and like eat and have his cake too?
Thanks.
Since your h has asked for a list of things that require attention, then yes, it could very well mean that he feels comfortable coming there to do them. Evidently you aren't putting a lot of pressure on him and he feels comfortable there. Make the list and then he can pick and choose what he wants to work on.
Would I put a lot of stock into his behavior right now? I would continue to keep my expectations very low or on zero because who knows what tomorrow may bring.
Be thankful that he wants to do things around the home. Many just up and leave and the spouse is left w/a mess of unfinished projects, learning to mow, fix toilets and leaks, etc.
One more thing...please try not to over analyze his behavior? Why? Because it's going to drive you nuts.
I suspect that H is suffering from the MLC Swiss Cheese syndrome because MLCers forget many, many things. The list is to help him keep track of what needs to be done. That's a positive in my view. Does that mean he'll do everything on the list? Who knows. Time will tell.
You would want to keep the to-do list short because MLCers can't handle too much information at one time.
Thanks for the information Job and Wonka.
I am definitely keeping my expectations at zero. It seems as if this whole thing has turned into some sort of distant friendship like one that you know someone but not very well like an acquaintance. Fine by me at this point I couldn't handle anymore then that I am not sure at this point if I want anymore then that with him.
I am ok.
I have a meeting with my attorney on Thursday. I have tried to be patient but I think my patience has run out. I think at this point a need a clean break mainly for me. I think if I know its done I can move on but with it lurking there for some reason I can't get past it.
I know I will be ok at this point which I didn't know a few months ago so everyone here has got me to this point. Going forward it will be hard but I have basically been on my own for 7 months now and I have realized that H is not the person I want in my life with the way he is.
I have come to realize the trust that was broken with his lies I don't think I can get back because I don't think I will ever trust him like I did and I really need that with whoever I will be with or maybe I will be by myself and I am ok with that too. I have lots of family and friends that my S and I hang out with every weekend.
Wish me luck and thanks to everyone who has supported me and made me realize that I needed to find my own life. I have and will continue to do so.
Maybe down the road we can patch things up maybe not only time will tell.
Whatever you decide to do, we are here to support you.
So I tried to talk with H to see If there has been any change before I see L call it a last ditch effort. I didn't say I was seeing L because I am just going to see options. Anyway H became angry I thought he might not because he has been a little more in control with me not so much with S though. H still maintains he doesn't know about us and he has not gone outside marriage. I did ask because last night he lectures my S on lying and how it is wrong to lie. So I reminded him of that and ask for him to be honest. He says he hates coming around because I not pick at him and he does t feel I trust him.
I have tried very hard not to not pick and really believe I haven't as I have learned some things around here. As for trust I don't know how I show or don't show I trust him at this point. I have no idea what he means. And whatever he does for me I always make sure to thank him and never criticize.
Any thoughts or advice on something else I can do I would appreciate it.
Oh one thing I did do that I should t have though is I let him bait me in because I bought a grill that was on sale because ours has been broke on summer and S and I like to grill. He was mad because he needed rent money and said we were short because I bought grill. So I said you are mad at me for buying grill but you went and bought a Harley. He exploded. I should have let it go.
No undoing that one.
Talked with L today and she said it sounds like H is very passive aggressive in that he wants someone else to talk the blame for everything wrong so he can look like the good guy to the outside world.
She asked how long I was willing to put up with his living somewhere else while married. she asked how does this look to your S that a family unit should be husband, wife children all living together helping each other out and contributing to the household and how we are doing it now is like accepting it is ok for H to treat me like this and that you can just walk away from your responsibilities.
She said if I don't do something I am just letting H know that what he is doing is ok and he will keep doing it because he basically has he cake and eats it too.
Any thought?
I think L's are for giving L advice, not R advice. Stick to the forum for R advice I say....
For me L's fall into the well-meaning 'family and friends' ditch his cheating @ss camp.
Trying to catch back up on your sitch. He's in an MLC, and you know that this will take a while, and you are on his timetable unless you want off the ride. My 2 cents is that exploring more clear boundaries is a good alternative to going the L route. You are afraid still if he isn't in contact with you that you will lose hold of him, yet when he is around and you know he will be coming back around again very soon, it makes it hard for you to detach, and that is stressful and painful. No?
So, maybe a clearer separation with clearer boundaries that give you more space while he "figures" things out. I suspect he will bait and attack you for suggesting anything like this, because he wants things his way. You've been serving that agenda and he won't like it if the menu changes and you are the one driving that change. Remind him that you have needs and this arrangement is not working. Validate and offer to consider alternatives once he has some time to think over what you are proposing.
He also needs to see you getting on with your life more, being less focused on him. Him coming over and being around you and being able to engage you whenever he is in the mood, tells him that you are still focused on him, which is what he wants. As long as that continues, there is no reason for him to change anything or deal with anything. Why would he?
Also, don't worry about falling for his baiting. We all slip. The problem is only when it becomes a pattern, which you aren't doing.
Again, it's just my 2 cents, and I know you are already doing some GAL & detaching, but I still see this dynamic in place that will make him changing improbable and continue to test your patience that you see no signs of change.
You mentioned money being tight, but you are already considering paying a L, so have you considered a DB coach? They really are helpful at developing a plan and see things that you are not seeing.
Toots and Asitis: Thank you, you both make valid points and I am so glad you responded I was feeling at the end of my rope but you have given me new hope and more encouragement to stay the course.
I will take the advice and try to be more forceful about my times I am available. It is just that on the weekends he comes around for both S and me or maybe just S I am not sure and I don't think he is sure.
He did say today that he hates coming around because he thinks I nit pick (again I am not and this I know cuz I watch it) and because of R talk which we haven't done since May.
so maybe I tell him he needs not come to see me but can pick S up and take him somewhere else? What do you guys think? If I say that then he will be like yeah whatever you want and I know he will be mad even though he says he isn't.
Yes it is hard to detach when he comes back around I am good when he is not around or I know or haven't seen him for a couple of days.
Toots and Asitis: Thank you, you both make valid points and I am so glad you responded I was feeling at the end of my rope but you have given me new hope and more encouragement to stay the course.
I will take the advice and try to be more forceful about my times I am available. It is just that on the weekends he comes around for both S and me or maybe just S I am not sure and I don't think he is sure.
He did say today that he hates coming around because he thinks I nit pick (again I am not and this I know cuz I watch it) and because of R talk which we haven't done since May.
so maybe I tell him he needs not come to see me but can pick S up and take him somewhere else? What do you guys think? If I say that then he will be like yeah whatever you want and I know he will be mad even though he says he isn't.
Yes it is hard to detach when he comes back around I am good when he is not around or I know or haven't seen him for a couple of days.
Can he come around whenever, or do you have a set schedule? If he says he hates coming around, definitely suggest he take son out rather than hanging around. If he resists, then you plan to go out once he's there. Even if it is to go take a walk at a park or some place that gives you a break, get out rather than hanging around. Make yourself less available. If he thinks you nitpick, see if he likes not having you around as much.
My coach has stressed thinking in terms of what makes me attractive. Think before I say or do anything, "is this attractive?" Think about the ways you are interacting and whether or not they attract him to you. Is being around the house when he comes over attractive? I don't think it is sending him that message. There is nothing mysterious or interesting about that. You are reminding him of the one thing in the M he isn't interested in right now: the wife. You want him to start viewing you as the friend, and eventually the lover and partner.
Maybe think through what boundaries would give you more peace of mind, give you some time to GAL, and keep the interactions either about co-parenting or brief cheerful discussions with a friendly neighbor.
Look for activities in the area (I think I remember you aren't in a city, so you might have to look farther afield) that you could do on a regular basis, and ask your H to watch your S then. My pottery classes were one of my things, but it could be something at the library, a local college (adult extension education), an art center, a craft shop. Anything that gets you out doing something you think will interest you and get you around other people.
Negotiate which weekend days he can come take your S, and which ones you will get. Then try to do something fun with your S on the days you have him, and plan to do something for yourself the days he does.
You are no longer on the shelf where he put you and wants you to stay. You are making lemonade out of the lemons he handed you. You are someone who is going on with your life and projecting a liveliness that he is not expecting or used to. You aren't just wife that he sees as a drag of obligations and limitations.
Maybe lay out what agreements & understandings you have made with your H? Things like contact, permission to come over, when H can come and when he can't, division of parenting responsibilities, etc.
All very good points. Yes H does come over when he wants. He will text on a Sunday and ask what we are doing and I will say yard work or pool or hanging out he will then text and say "mind if I stop over" to which I say sure and then he will say he will be over at like 1:30. So maybe I say sure how about and give him a time? Would that make a difference?
And then when he gets there I could say I have an errand to run ?
That might be a step in the right direction, but it still leaves him calling all the shots and not requiring him to carry any of the parenting load and allow you time to live your life. Having to run an errand when he comes over doesn't make you attractive. Having a life does that. He is cake eating and you are there where he left you reacting to whatever his agenda is.
Sunday is his day with your S (or pick the day). You can then make plans to do what you want. If he wants more days, great. If he complains that he doesn't want a fixed schedule, that means he wants to live his life and not reciprocate. Does he think this will be the arrangement after the D? No. You will have a schedule with him having so much time, and you having so much time. So, he thinks he wants that life, now is the time for him to try that on for size.
Don't make it about what he wants and what you want (then it becomes a contest), but say that this arrangement is not working for you or for your S. You need more structure so that you can plan your life ahead of time, and S needs time w/ his dad. You can also say that while you've been saying it's fine that he come over, that hasn't been the case. The current arrangement is for a short hiatus (a month or two), but you are now well beyond that with no sign of change.
See the difference between that and him keep coming over and you running an errand when he does? You need a life. You are entitled to a life, just like he is. And, he may decide he doesn't like the limited time he gets with you, especially if you are clearly going on with life and becoming all interesting and everything. He might even get the idea that you won't stay right where he left you and that may scare some sense into him.
I agree w/asitis on setting a schedule for visitation. I would encourage your h to take your son out for the day. A day in the park, museum, etc. Your home shouldn't be the community center for meet ups all of the time. This will change if you should divorce. He should be responsible for your son, which means, taking him to his place and spending time w/him.
Setting visitation times allows you time to do the thing that you want to do while your son is w/his father. It gives you some time to yourself. After all, your h has plenty of time to himself during the week while you have your son 24/7. It's time your h learn what being a father is and that means taking care of his son on his own in his own environment or finding ways to entertain his son.
Your h may get a bit miffed w/the changes in visitation settings, but that's too bad. He's the one that walked and he's the one that needs to figure things out, especially if a divorce should happen. One you set your boundaries, do not change them unless you think they are unreasonable. Don't waiver/waffle on them. If you waffle, he'll known he can get by w/stuff. Stick to them.
Job and Asist (spelling?)
Alright I will try and do that. In the summer H does watch S 3 x during the week day from 8:30 until 5 although he leave S alone for 3 -4 hours while he goes to the gym and works out. Yes that is right 3-4 hours at the gym leaves S10 alone at home. This is how he chooses to spend time with S.
I think maybe try alternating every other weekend he can have a overnight with S. When S is in school it changes and H will pick him up from school at 2:45 and have him until 5:30 when I get home 3x a week so to me that counts as spending time with son and he wont need to do the Sunday stop over thing IMO. what do you think?
But if we do D I don't want H to have a case for shared care because I don't think he is capable of that at this point.
Ten seems young to be left alone, even for a shorter time. How do you feel about what he is doing? How does your S feel...Is he comfortable being left?
S feels that dad doesn't pay attention to him and I don't think it is right that he leaves him home alone that long. I don't like it I feel H says he wants to spend time with S but then he leaves him alone for 3 hours so it makes me wonder.
H said he wanted D tonight. I feel sad maybe disappointed but not surprised as he has never really put forth any action in last 7 months that we have been separated. h says he has but there has been nothing other then him sitting at his rental house and me in our home and H stopping by to visit S for a couple of hours on Sunday
As usual he tried to convince me that it was I who wanted the divorce too. I told him it wasn't me but if he did then it was up to him. He had the nerve to say well fine I will be the bad guy if that's what you want. WTH. You want divorce not me. You left home not me and now you are trying to tell me I don't want to be married.
Whatever I will survive. Oh and he proceed to ask me what he needs to do to get things rolling. I told him you want D figure it out. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I am feeling not so good.
He also wanted to divide stuff up and I told him he needed to file first.
So weird because one minute he is like I don't know and the next he is filing and wants to divide things up and try to say I was the one that really wants the divorce and I haven't loved him for 10 years etc..
It is not true and so not true that if it weren't so sad it would be funny. I can't even believe that he thinks that and I don't really think he believes it either it just makes him feel better about what he is doing to us.
At least I stood up for myself and told him that it was not me that wanted the divorce and I was not going to let him make me say that I wanted the divorce. He also tried this with the separation saying to our therapist that we both agreed to the separation but she called him out on it by saying that if I hadn't agreed to the separation would he have filed for divorce and he said yes. Therapist said so she really didn't have much choice don't you think.
I'd be recording what S reports by date. Memory isn't the same, and you don't know what H will do in D proceedings. Hopefully, it will be unnecessary, but better safe than sorry.
Have you considered mediation? If he wants D & separating your lives more fully, tell him that you aren't wanting a divorce, but if that is where he wants to go, you'd prefer to go through mediation to keep it as cooperative and non-conflictual as possible. If for no other reason that it will be better for the kids if their parents are getting along at the end of this.
Then find a mediator with a therapy background rather than a lawyer. You want someone who is attentive to the emotional side of things and can take opportunities to improve the relationship when they come along, rather than just settling the D quickly and less oppositionally.
H is pretty bent on D at this point. I did tell him I don't want D but he said he wants to get things "rolling" but there is no OW. I think there is but that is neither here nor there now.
I have heard of the mediating but I thought you had to settle by filing divorce first.
H is pretty bent on D at this point. I did tell him I don't want D but he said he wants to get things "rolling" but there is no OW. I think there is but that is neither here nor there now.
I have heard of the mediating but I thought you had to settle by filing divorce first.
No, often meditation precedes the filing. It is getting the heavy lifting on the issues done, so that when it comes time to file, there is little left to resolve through the courts. Once the courts are involved, things can be more expensive. It also allows you to arrange things for the separation while you work on the D.
A lot of couples go through mediation, and then filing is just a matter of submitting the petition & checking off the necessary court requirements (like parenting counseling when there are kids), and waiting out the required wait time. Makes for a less stressful, painful process at a time when things are hard enough.
The good side is that mediation, especially w/ someone trained in MC can lead to reconciliation, although that shouldn't be
the reason you seek it out.
That is interesting and it makes sense. I would like to be as civil as possible even though I am very angry at times in the long run I don't want to end up being a bitter person. I just want to be free of him.
So H text last night and asked to come over to play Wii with S. Now all of a sudden he is going to be super dad since he decided he wants D. I said ok that we would be home in an hour.
He comes over and is nice and telling me about his day like nothing has happened WTH.
I talk a few minutes then go about my business of watering and putting away laundry while he plays with S.
He stayed an hour or so then said he would see S tomorrow and I said oh I am sorry we will not be here tomorrow evening. He said ok and left.
What is that all about? Any ideas?
You want him to make sense all of a sudden?
Testing, testing, 1,2,3. My guess guess he is testing to see if he can have the D and still keep his family intact and you taking care of some of his needs for stability, comfort, and normality. You are his rock of normality. Just remember that as you cut the cord more and more. It may be this that wakes him up.
Glad you were not going to be there. I can't remember if he takes S so you can get out, but if not, that is a golden opportunity to say, "No, we're going to be out, but it would be great if you could take S next Tuesday so I can get out to do some things w/ friends."
It also really is time for some boundaries. "Here are the days you take S. The days you don't have S, you can ask for him, but if I agree, you take him out rather than coming to hang around the house. I'll do the same."
If he objects, you can reply that this is how it will be in D and you aren't comfortable w/ him being around in the house. You also want S to have as much contact w/ his D because that is best for S, but this needs to start transitioning to the future normal routine.
He thinks D is a good option because he is getting everything he wants. Freedom, ability to drop in mostly on his schedule and needs, and access to everyone when he wants. That's MLC heaven right there.
I know you've been moving to more assertiveness and boundaries already, but my experience is that when we start this is when we realize just how much we've been either pursuing or allowing cake eating, or facilitating bad behavior, etc. It is a process of doing step one, then realizing, that there are still things to do to curtail the dynamic, which leads to step 2. As it says on shampoo bottles, "Wash, rinse, repeat."
Good luck & enjoy your evening w/ your son wo/ H stopping by!
You have been my rock through the last couple of days. I did do that and he was not happy last night when I told him we would not be home tonight the only thing I didn't do was suggest another time.
Do you think I should text him and ask him to take S on Friday or Saturday night so I could go out?
He told me the other day when he said he wanted D that I hadn't included him in on anything which was not true because I had asked him to go to the lake with us and on several occasions asked him to eat dinner and he said no. I reminded him of this and of course he just said it wasn't true. It just baffles me how he can say that when it is a blatant lie. I know MLC but I am just spewing my feelings right night. I wanted to reach over and shake him. Just saying.
He told me the other day when he said he wanted D that I hadn't included him in on anything which was not true because I had asked him to go to the lake with us and on several occasions asked him to eat dinner and he said no. I reminded him of this and of course he just said it wasn't true. It just baffles me how he can say that when it is a blatant lie. I know MLC but I am just spewing my feelings right night. I wanted to reach over and shake him. Just saying.
I wouldn't include him in much until you can detach yourself & get your GAL activities ramped up. And, don't you dare try to apologize or defend yourself when he pulls that moping little boy 'you don't include me anymore' crap. You really can throw a truth dart at him for that. Just give him a look of utter disbelief & say 'Really!?!' If he can't figure that out, a quick "You're divorcing me & you want me to include you in activities? That was a rhetorical question by the way."
If he really presses, just say "for right now I need my space away from you. I'm glad you want to be involved w/ your S, so let's talk about us sharing parenting duties more equitably so that you get some time w/ S & I get some time for myself?"
And on the asking him to take S, absolutely. But don't forget you need to get him on a schedule as co-parent so that it is just settled & you don't need to initiate contact.
Those are great responses and I am going to use them.
H text me this morning and asked if S could have overnight Friday so I said sure and then to make sure I am driving my bus so to speak I said I would pick him up from H's house either at 10:00a.m. on Saturday or 2:30p.m. on Saturday and H could pick which time. It used to be if H had an overnight which rarely happened I would wait around all day or to whenever H text me to tell me he was bringing S home. Not convenient for me and I am done with that.
S doesn't want to spend overnight at dad's however last weekend he was going to but H ended up calling me at 5:00 (and he had just picked him up at 3:30) and said S was ready to come home so I told H I wouldn't be there for a couple of hours.
I like the "I need space away from you" because I do and S and I are going on vacation next Wednesday thru Sunday so that should help and then S starts school and I plan to have a schedule of H picking S up from school 3 days a week and that will give him 2 1/2 hours with S and then every other weekend a visitation or overnight. S may not want to do that and normally I would say that every child needs his father but H has such explosive anger at S that I understand why S doesn't want to spend a lot of time with H.
What do you think about this?
I think the after school pick up is fine if you can take advantage of it, but why don't you suggest one of those evenings, he take S to dinner & have him back around X:00 (you pick the time). Make it a fixed evening. That way you get a longer break to do things w/ friends or do some evening activity (take an art class, do yoga, join a discussion group/book/movie group, etc.).
On the anger w/ the S, he needs to do some work, and it is not inappropriate to schedule a sit down to discuss this w/ him in a non-critical, supportive, brain-storming way. Make clear that you aren't going to lay blame, but just want to help him & your S develop a better R, esp. at this difficult time in all your lives.
You can do the same thing w/ S too. When you sit down, start w/ the I'm not here to be critical or blame. Then ask him what he thinks might improve his R w/ dad. Laugh off the inevitable comment about dad being less of an a*shole, but stick to it. He may feign indifference and lack of interest in trying, but this is just a front. He really does want desperately to improve his R w/ his dad, but because of this really painful need older kids & teens puts on the armor of indifference at a certain point. It has to be when he is in a relatively relaxed, good mood, and certainly not right after dad & he have gone at each other (if dad has blown up & he is clearly hurt, that is a fine time, but not if he is angry or resentful at dad). This one doesn't need to be planned, and is perhaps better to strike when the moment feels right.
How old is your S again?
Talk to both of them like you respect their opinion and have confidence that they can come up w/ ideas to help their sitch. Listen & validate. Compliment w/ some enthusiasm when they have a good idea. Ask questions rather that offer solutions, or offer solutions like "do you think this might help?" Let's them feel good about what they are doing and have some hope. Be realistic about this taking work.
The bonus can be that you have them feel good about collaborating w/ them.
Yeah except my H is a complete J**** right now he is unapproachable on anything. Anything I try to talk about he cuts me off and starts with yeah I am the bad guy I am the a**hole its all my fault and then the famous I am not going to listen to this sh**.
I have tried to have a normal conversation about anything with him and it immediately turns to him yelling and I an not going to talk about this or you are saying I am a bad father and I am not listening to this sh**. It is ridiculous and at this time I feel I can't approach him with anything.
If he starts a conversation and it is about him and you agree with him or he says someone is a jerk and you agree there is no yelling or if like he will say at least I am not that fat and then you can compliment him he is fine. As long as I am or S is doing what he says or agreeing with him 100% he stays calm but if you disagree or he thinks you have an opinion like I want to paint the house (which he doesn't leave in ) you get fine do whatever you want I don't care.
My car broke down and he was looking at it (it is 12 years old) so I started telling him about a preowned car I found pretty cheap and he started yelling that we had no money for that and picked up the thing you slide under the car with and put it over his head and slammed it to the garage floor breaking it, threw a flashlight across the garage and broke it and then closed his fists and eyes tight and shook and cussed.
That's a sample.
Not trying to make excuses just trying to give you a full picture of what I am dealing with.
Poor wittle man/child. He's having a temper tantrum. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, they have those little temper tantrums frequently over nothing or something minor. Just walk away and don't engage when they are acting out.
It is so bad that I can't say anything to him anymore. Everything I say he twists around to be something negative toward him. I literally give up. I just do the yes and no answers.
If I have any opinion or say I am going to have someone fix the house he says Whatever or we don't have any money or I will do it but not in a normal voice, he yells it. So no more, no more telling him anything. I am done being yelled at every day for his unhappiness of whatever it is.
No excuses were read into this on this end. I will point out one very big warning that I hope will never need to be acted on. He has anger issues - fairly bad anger issues from what you've said. During times of M break down we see a dramatic rise in physical and sexual violence against the S (almost always against the W, but there are a few exceptions & they are serious, but the reality is that this is almost always male violence against women). We see this from men who have never been physically violent before. Therefore, you need to take this possibility very seriously. Heed the warning signs & if you feel unsafe or threatened, your first priority is to get yourself out of that situation and to a safe place. You can then evaluate it more clearly, but don't dismiss it by saying he never did before, he's not like that. I really hope he isn't, and most men don't go here thankfully. But we don't count on statistics here, what matters is each individual case.
You should also be journalling these incidents that happen to you and your S.
I don't want to make too much of that, but it needed to be said.
Now, it sounds like you need the help of a neutral party w/ some emotional training not to help your M, but to help negotiate the S. It is beyond the two of you at this stage to sit down & come up w/ something that is workable by yourselves. Does this sound correct?
Maybe you look into that. Then tell him that you need to talk and not to blame him for anything, but you need his help. Then you say I don't care whose fault something is or go over past mistakes either of us made, but I need to find solutions to us being able to negotiate an equitable division of labor on parenting, scheduling, and other practical matters. The current ad hoc approach isn't working for me.
Can we sit down, and focus just on working on our arrangement going forward together? Do you think that would work?
See how you are making it solutions-focused? See how you are making it about you and not him? See how you are asking for his help and asking for his opinion (showing respect even if you don't feel all that much)? That may help.
If he blows up or refuses, then you have the trump card of. OK, then I guess we're going to have to do this the hard way that I was hoping to avoid. The way I see it, we have a few options: (1) go to MC for help not on the R but on working out our S arrangement; (2) going to a mediator to do the same; (3) or if you refuse, go through Ls. There is a fourth option, and that is what I originally asked for which is to sit down together and look for solutions. I'm serious that this needs to be addressed, so it is going to be one of those four things. You are in control of that choice. Think about it & I want an answer by X (48 hours?).
Too confrontational? I don't think so. He really is not behaving rationally. He is in MLC & you are S. He is being irresponsible and he is not being a partner. He has been dictating the terms, and (1) he is not your parent; and (2) he is not the one acting like a responsible adult who deserves to be driving the decisions even if this were acceptable to you. Now, he may chose to be too difficult to continue co-parenting w/, but it isn't a good sitch right now anyway for you or your S the way you've portrayed it. It also may sober him up a bit to reality.
And keep my warning in mind in case he escalates the anger at this.
If you are unsure, start a thread on the MLC forum & ask for people to stop in and look at this sitch here. In other words, I think you are at a big enough crossroads here that I'd advise you to not just take my advice on this.
Thank you. I think you are right. At this point I would just like to get the D I am not sure if I want S to be around H a lot right now because his anger is so unpredictable and S knows this too and doesn't want to have any sleep overs with dad and I feel that right now I can't make him because of dad's anger and I wouldn't be doing my job.
I do support visitation and spending time with his dad as much as S wants too.
Please start a new thread