I have another post that is still open, but I started this new post because I need guidance on how I should respond to my H after six months of total silence.
Below is his email to me with the specifics removed:
Hi...
I am back from XXXXXXX and my dad as you know is on his last breaths.
I am planning to go next week end if I can.
Can you help setting up the trip?
Either thru XXXXXXX or other ways.
Thanks.
So my H wants me to allow him to use a travel benefit that I receive because of the job I am currently in. Wow he has some b@&&$. No indication that he has not talked to me in 6 months, he has not asked how I am doing, he has not said ANYTHING to me at all! How do I respond?
I want to help him because if I do not, he will just purchase a ticket that will end up costing us more money anyway. I want him to see his dad and I don't want to make it hard right now because his dad is dying. I'm just not sure how I should respond without him thinking that I am a total pushover.
Please, any advise on how I should respond?
Thank you!!
Gr8ful3
Gr8,
Let's step back and look at the big picture. H's father is dying and he's reaching out to ask for your help.
When my late father was dying in the last week of his life, I could barely handle more than what was already on my plate and had a close friend of mine handle some nitty gritty details. I simply asked her to do x, y, z for me and she just did them without any expectation.
Do the same for H. He's UNDER A LOT OF STRESS right now.
Why not show case a different gr8 and show him that you can be a support to H?
This isn't about you at all. Set aside your ego and pride.
Simply say sorry that it is a difficult time for him and that you would glady help H with trip details.
High road...remember?
First, I feel bad for your H and sorry to hear about your FIL. But, wow he did not even ask how you have been or anything after 6 months of NC?? I am not sure how to respond. This one is tricky. I will let a vet chime in.
Thank you Wonka,
This is what I really wanted to do but I wanted to make sure I wasn't going against any DBing. This is so delicate and I don't want to screw it up. You are right, I will not make this about me. I will take the high road. I know he has a lot on his plate right now.
Any suggestions on how I should respond? Keep it simple?
Thank you again.
Gr8ful3
Thank you for your kind words BW05. Trying to figure this out. It is so hard to have FIL dying and H not talking to me. It puts me in an uncomfortable spot, but as Wonka said, this is not about me.
Thank goodness for the wonderful vets online. I so appreciate all the support.
Gr8ful3
Gr8,
How about this? You can change it up to suit your style.
Hi HName,
I am so sorry to hear about FILName...my thoughts are with you and the family during this difficult time. I can only imagine that all of this cannot be easy for you at all.
Sure, I can help out with the trip. Let me get back to you soon with some options for you to look over and let me know your preference.
Gr8
Then you would want to look up flight details and then show him some flight schedule options so he can pick out the one that suits him the best.
Thank you Wonka, this is exactly what I need and I will tweak as needed. I appreciate your assistance so much. Thank you!!
Gr8ful3
Sure...no problem. Glad to help out here.
Wonka, thank you for helping out gr8ful3. I was looking at the sitch earlier and didn’t know how to respond.
Gr8ful3, good luck!
Bob
Wonka,
I haven't posted in a couple of weeks but wanted to let you know that my H actually called me and asked for my assistance with his travel. His father had actually passed away at that point and I think your message showed that I was open to help. It was the first time in 6 months that he actually picked up the phone to call me and didn't do it over an email.
Wanted to thank you again for your assistance. I have been catching up with some other threads and think your advice is spot on.
This is the prime example of being the lighthouse.
Thank you Ralphy! It takes a village to be a lighthouse. I so admire everyone on this site. So much wisdom and kindness shared everyday. I only hope one day I can do the same.
I am relatively new on the site and will check out your thread.
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement.
Gr8ful
Hi gr8ful3,
I just wanted to stop by and inform you that you are in my thoughts and prayers. I have not forgotten about you! I haven’t been online too much lately and finally have some extra time. How are you feeling?
Please try to keep a PMA, don’t give up and keep moving forward. We have your back!
Thanks for your post in my thread.
Your friend,
Bob
Thank you dear Bob. I know you are going through some tough times right now. I sometimes have to take a break from the site for a few days to pretend my life is normal (LOL whatever that means).
Trying to keep a PMA and trying to stay strong and continue to move forward while standing still with my M. Sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it.
I had a wonderful weekend with my S so that has lifted my spirits. Trying to plan some fun GALing for the summer weekends.
God bless. Will continue to follow your sitch. You are doing great. Showing lots of strength and understanding.
Your mutual friend,
Gr8ful
Trying to keep a PMA and trying to stay strong and continue to move forward while standing still with my M. Sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it.
Hi Gr8ful,
You're very welcome! An oxymoron, indeed.
I totally understand. I just wanted to stop by and inform you that you are in my thoughts and prayers daily.
Peace to you, my friend, and may each day be better than the previous. Hang in there!
*hugs*
Your friend,
Bob
I haven't posted anything in the past couple of weeks because I have been very busy with my house, job and kids. I had a couple of interesting discussions with my H and wanted to get everyone's take on them.
This may be a long post so I apologize in advance.
Last weekend, I was out of town GALing with some girl friends. Wine tasting in Sonoma. When I got home on Sunday evening my son told me that the car I let him drive quit running and he had to have it towed to our home. We determined it was probably the alternator. I told him we would discuss what to do the following day.
I took Monday off of work and my son wanted to discuss buying a car. His friends step dad told him he was selling is fathers 2005 Cadillac that has 64k but his dad smoked in the car so he couldn't trade it in. He wanted $6k for it. I told my son I know nothing about cars, you should call your dad and discuss.
So about 30 min later, I'm in my car and I see that my H is calling me. So I answer. He immediately starts yelling about how our S doesn't take care of anything and that he wasn't sure my S should buy a car- btw my S wanted us to loan him the money for the car- I forgot to say that. So my H is yelling. And I said that if he was uncomfortable with the car, he should call his brother who sells cars and ask him what he thinks. My H said good idea.
I call my S and tell him that we are checking with his uncle. My S said good idea. Everyone is on board. About 15 mins later my H calls me again and I can tell he is very agitated. He starts the conversation with I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO ME AND NOT SAY ANYTHING. I AM VERY TIRED. MY BROTHER SAYS THAT CAR IS NOT A GOOD FIT FOR OUR S AND HE SAYS OUR S SHOULDNT BUY THE CAR. I said I'm fine with that and I agree with you if your brother says he shouldn't buy the car then we should say no and we will figure out something else. My H says that he and my S had a big fight about why he shouldn't buy the car. I said, well I agree with you so that is the end of the discussion of the car with our S. My H didn't know what to say. I agreed with him. It was like he was getting ready to battle with me. I told him not to worry, I'd talk to our S and we would work something else out.
Second conversation-
Saturday, after 3 weeks of helping his mom after his dad's death he is on a flight back to where he lives. He actually called me when he got into the U.S. He wasn't sure he was going to make his connection. I checked and said he should. He said he would call me when he got to his next layover because he had a couple of hours there. He never called me. And he never called me that evening when he got back to his apartment. He called me this morning, but I decided not to answer because he didn't respect me enough to call me yesterday when he said he would.
My question is, should I have answered the call today? Or is it okay to have let it go?
A little background about the first call. One of the things my H always got angry about was the way I defended my S whenever my H got angry with him. My H thought I was ruining him as a man. Babying him. I'm not going to say that I was always correct coming to my S's defense, but I often felt my H was really hard on my S.
Recently, I asked my S if he had talked to his dad to keep in contact and my S said, yes I talked to my dad. We talk to each other, but he hasn't listened to me in years. But we talk.
It made me feel so sad. My H hasn't been here for our kids during the past 3 years. And really more than that.
So not sure if my H will try to contact me again since he is back now. I guess I need to start reviewing the validation statements again. We haven't had a real talk in over 8 months.
Will let you know if I have the first one sometime this week. I'm very nervous!
Gr8ful3
My H called me twice today. Once in the morning to tell me he tried to call me the day before but there was no answer. He asked me if I had gone out of town. I told him I was probably out doing yard work and didn't hear the phone.
The second time was to ask me if a credit was given on our credit card for a charge that was not valid. He was so angry - not at me- at the CC company. But it is typical of his previous mood before he stopped talking to me. How do you deal with such anger? Every little thing makes him mad. Everything is negative. Today, I listened, checked the CC statement for him and answered his question and told him to have a nice day.
Seems I'm not the only "one" "thing" making him angry.
Seems I'm not the only "one" "thing" making him angry.
Hi gr8ful,
I haven’t been on the board much this past week or so, I’m sorry if it seems like a life-time ago that I checked in with you.
You are correct - your H is angry about many things...mostly at himself, I believe.
Please stay positive and keep on the DB horse. You'll get thru this.
*Hugs*
Bob
I have not contacted or talked to my H in almost one month. Out of the blue last weekend he called and left a message on my phone telling me he just wanted to say hi because he had not called me in a while (actually about 7 months). I was on a girls weekend and did not call him back. No call this weekend.
Today, he tries to call me on his one hour lunch break. I was on a conference call at work so I sent him the auto " busy, can I call you later" he sent a text back "yes". Then he called and left a message on my VM saying he tried to text me but I was busy. -yes- then he said when I have time to call him because we need to have a talk, a serious talk.
I waited a couple of hours and sent him back the following text. I hope this is OK. I probably should have run this past a vet b4 I sent it:
Got your message. I'm out of town on business through Thursday. Will be happy to talk when I'm back. Hope you are doing well.
I'm getting very nervous now that he has broken his silence. Not sure what to expect. Any tips on the best way to proceed? Assuming I do not contact him, right? Listen and validate? Do I let him do the talking? Do I keep conversation uncomplicated? A serious talk to me means relationship talk. So not good with those kinds of talks. Listen and validate, right!!!!
Looks like your response was perfect.
Center of calm, loving rock, lighthouse whenever you do talk with him. Remember being overexcited if he hints at anything will repel...
Also, be prepared that serious may not be what you hope for.
Good luck!!
Thank you Zelda, I think I am prepared for what the possibility of serious talk may mean. I'm trying not to second guess and just go into the conversation "as if". I am at a point where I'm getting used to being alone. I will use your suggestions above. Preparing for what I don't want to hear. Will keep very calm (on the outside).
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Gr8ful
You got a girlfriend who you can debrief with after tonight and will help you get out of your head and heart when it's done?
Highly suggested. You're likely to feel shaken somehow...prepare like a Boy Scout.
Zelda,
Thank you for the suggestion. I do have a girlfriend who I can debrief with. Not sure when the"talk" will take place, but I will prepare for a couple of different scenarios. This morning as I was in between the state of being asleep and awake, I had a dream that my phone rang. I picked it up and said " hello" and I heard my husband's voice say "goodbye". Then I woke up. I've been thinking about it the whole day.
I am reading your story and see many similarities with mine.You are so wise and strong and able to articulate your feelings. I am so sorry you are going through this.
Dreams are the worst sometimes.
But I believe they show us what our subconscious knows better. Too bad they are so emotionally hard hitting.
Lol grateful, I'm not wise. Far from it. I've spent too much time in my head instead of my gut and my heart. The times I should have been in my head, I was in my heart!
If your sitch is truly like mine in the big ways - the toxic behaviors/abuse/caretaker/savior stuff, I promise, the gold turns to green tarnish when the sympathetic reactions in you cease, when the chemicals in your brain get through the withdrawal phase and you can finally start making peace with the difference between reality and the love and hopes, in us, that coated it for a while.
I do know all of us here get stronger as we keep the focus on our growth, and let go of the outcome! What are you doing to GAL right now or make yourself happy?
Every sitch is different. I'm thinking of you hoping your big talk goes well and you are well supported the next day!
Zelda,
Thank you so much for your concern. I'm sorry I haven't been online this week. I've been getting my d25 ready to live overseas for a year. Lots to do to make sure she is ready for that commitment.
Wow, I've also been trying to catch up on your sitch. I can say that there are elements of your sitch in mine but not quite to that severity. I truly feel for you. I have lived through so much drama and chaos especially when my H wasn't feeling the center of attention or wasn't getting his way. Many days, months of not being talked to, made to feel like it is all your fault, etc. it hurts and I'm still not sure how to handle it. It sounds like you are doing way more searching than I am. I know that will be my next step. I've just not been able to go there yet emotionally.
As far as the "serious talk" my H finally called after a week, the night b4 our d left for Overseas. It was a very cordial talk, not serious at all, just what I was doing for our d to get her ready. Then he called the next day to make sure she got on her flight, etc.talked a bit about his job and all his traveling. To me it seemed like he is trying to sound very busy (which he is) and not bothered by anything. I guess he was acting "as if", maybe he is DBing-LOL. Not one word about our R. I let it go and decided I would not be the one to bring anything up. Consequently, we are now on our 9th month of separation.
Our S said the other day that he thinks his dad sounds very sad every time he talks to him. I think we are all sad to tell you the truth.
Thank you again for your posts, your words of wisdom, your authenticity. I know the serious talk will have to happen at some point. I've got to do the deep dive here soon to start doing additional work on myself. To try to figure out who I am and what I want. For right now, I'm living in the moment, not making any big decisions.
I will continue to read your posts and pray that you find some peace and serenity. And, contrary to what you believe, you are wise!
Gr8ful
I need some advice. I would appreciate any feedback.
This is a long complicated story and part of my marital issues. I'm going to try to give you a shortened version.
My H and I are not the same religion. When we got married I agreed to raise our children his religion but I said that I would always honor whatever choice our children made as far as what they wanted to practice.
And I kept my word I did not interfere when they were children but my H was not really around much and wasn't really diligent about religious practices. We celebrated both holidays but always told the kids they were their dad's religion.
As of today, my kids do not feel they are practicing any religion. They are both very open to all practices. My D met a young man who is not her dad's religion and has been seeing him for several months. He does not live in the U.S. So she decided to go to his country to try to find a job and to see if they could have anything together.
I have been encouraging my D to tell her dad about the R and be honest with her dad. She has been reluctant waiting for the right time.
She told her dad about the move but said it was for a job.since she moved, my H has called me 3 times asking questions about who she was staying with, about work visas, etc. today I told my D she has to tell her dad the real reason she moved because it was the right thing to do and because she would feel terrible if he found out from someone other than her.
So she texted him (because she doesn't have phone service yet) and told him in a very eloquent way, keeping his feelings and beliefs in mind that she was seeing someone and that he was not the same religion as her dad.
my H has told my D that he will not support her or have any contact with her, as hard as it may be, if she chooses to have a relationship with this young man. He will draw a line in the sand and she will no longer be his D if that is what she chooses.
Then he called me to try to find out what I knew. I answered all of his questions honestly. He tried to blame me for not telling him about the R but I told him that I did not have many opportunities to talk to him in the past 8 months since he was not responding to any emails or phone calls and that our D was an adult and I felt it was her choice when she was ready to discuss it with him.
My H also told me that he would not waiver and if our D chose to stay with this young man that his conscience was clear he was doing the right thing for our D by looking out for her best interest and letting her know that he would not allow her to be with anyone other than someone of his religion. He said I probably would not agree with it but that was the way it would be.
I told him that he was free to believe what he did but I did not share the same viewpoint. He said he would try to talk to our D tomorrow.
I emailed our D and told her I had talked to her dad and that I would support her with whatever her decision is. I told her I felt terrible and I felt like it was my fault for so many reasons. She is sad and says it is not my fault and we both understand that the belief has been hanging around for some time it just hasn't been explicitly said until today. And with such conviction.
What do I say to my D? How can I support her? i do not agree with my H. I do not feel I can support this ultimatum. Leave this young man or I will have no contact with you. I fear this is what is going to tip the scales and pull us further apart. I also believe that my D didn't say anything earlier because she was afraid it might cause our M additional friction.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? I could use some guidance!
I'm new here, but I think you said and did exactly the right thing.
The only person your husband can control is himself. Perhaps he's learning that he's not able to control you anymore, and he's attempting to both control your daughter and hurt her as a way of getting at you.
Perhaps he's panicking about loosing her and feeling like he's lost you?
Who knows. The thing is, you said the right thing. I think the only thing to do now is let your husband do whatever he wants to do, draw close to your daughter, and help her learn the lessons you've been learning about letting other people go and doing what is right for you without expectations.
Sorry to hear you've had such a hard time. It sounds horrible.
I completely agree with the last poster. Stay strong for your kids
Flame care. Rd
Thank you spinningJenny and Rd,
I appreciate your insights. I have told my D that me and my S stand by her. She is so sad and incredulous that her dad would give her such an ultimatum. She plans to think on it for a day then send him an email to discuss.
SpinningJenny I think you hit on something when you say my H feels like he is loosing control. He has been feeling marginalized at work and is in the process of an HR review of his Supervisor. His Father passed a few months ago and his mother doesn't live in the U.S. He carries a lot of guilt for leaving her. She does not want to move here so she is alone which is looked down on in his culture. So he is carrying that. The one area he has left to show he is in charge is by requiring our D to follow this religious requirement even though he was not required to do it and in fact married outside of his religion. He has not ask or required her to follow any other religious doctrine. So it is a bit confusing to us. I also believe that this return to a more "religious" lifestyle is part of why he has pushed me away this past year. One of his excuses for justifying his behavior.
Our S talked to his dad yesterday and listened to his dad talk about how marginalized he feels at his job and how he hasn't been treated fairly. Our S empathized and then asked him how he thought our D felt when he didn't listen to her and give her a chance to explain her position. Didn't he think his D was feeling the same- marginalized. My H said it's different it is her religious duty. Again any way he can justify his behavior and not look at it and the possible consequences if he in fact goes through with it. Which I truly believe he will.
I cannot believe he is willing to give up his relationship with his entire family ( not his extended family though, I'm sure they support him) just to make this point that he is right and that there is no room for any discussion when it comes to this subject. Seems like going to an extreme to get what he wants.
So utterly sad it's hard for me to breath today :-(
Gr8,
Your D is an adult, let her and her dad work their R.
Dad has his reasons, D has hers. You have no control, let it unfold.
Listen, validate and stay clear. Those are my thoughts.
V
Thank you Vanilla! I appreciate your thoughts and kindness.
I spoke to my D today and she said she was going to wait until her dad contacted her to speak to him again. I told her that I loved her and that I would say a prayer for her. But you are right, it is their R and they need to discuss it.
I saw a post you wrote on Zelda's page regarding forgiveness. I believe you provided the name of a book you had read about forgiveness. Would you be willing to share that again? I'm having some difficulty with the concept of forgiveness and thought what you wrote to Zelda was interesting.
Thanks for all you do on this board.
Gr8
Start with Deborah Schermans article in Psycology today, why you don't always have to forgive. This wonderful writer is a criminal profiler, the real deal so involved with the survivors and relatives of crime.
The book is Jeanne Safer: Forgive and Not Forgive. It's out of print and available in Kindle version.I love this book and as the spouse of a compulsive gambler and being a participant in Gamanon I was looking for a philosophy on forgiving that I can live with and advise others it's ok not to forgive, I often hear some terrible things in 12 steps and others feel guilty for not forgiving, which re victimises the survivor, sod that!
It's up to each to manage their journey and sometimes forgiveness requires remorse and atonement.
Other books to consider are People of the Lie by Scott Peck, which is a book about ordinary evil. Then there is Mans Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl which is about the best of human spirit.
Hope this helps.
Exactly what is it about forgiving that troubles you?
V
Gr8ful,
If I was your daughter and you meant to support, it would show itself as questions about the young man, interest in them, normal business as usual conversations between the two of you, no big deal, all the little ways a mother can be happy for her daughter.
Although not genetic, I think attitudes of feeling too responsible for other people's reactions can be passed down. So can good mental health, so possibly reinforce that her father's feelings are his own. And perhaps to say that you don't agree with his tactic of threatening emotional withdrawal from her life. I don't think she should feel or imagine that is a fair choice she should be presented with.
Thank you for reading up on me. I write a lot and it's a bit to wade through, I'm sure.
Good luck to you, keep us posted (get it? I love puns.)
V,
Thank you so much for all of the suggested reading above. I appreciate it. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that there are things that you feel you cannot forgive but if you don't you feel guilty. In my R with my H and also with my father there are things that I just don't think I can forgive. And I want to understand how I can be ok with that. I don't want to justify why I'm not going to forgive, I want to understand it. Not sure if that makes sense.
Sometimes I feel that I have been manipulated and taken advantage of because I am not strong enough, feel guilty and am too forgiving. I want to learn to be strong and forgiving but not stupid. I haven't had much guidance in the area of forgiveness. I liked the way you presented the concept of forgiveness to Zelda.
Zelda,
Thank you for your suggestions for talking to my D. We have had the very discussion you mentioned above. And I totally agree with you that attitudes can be picked up through relationships and are not necessarily genetic. And also that mental health is so important. I am trying to be a " regular" mom and ask the kind of questions you presented above. I told my D that I will not interfere in her R with her dad but I did not agree with his opinion regarding who she could chose to be with. I also told her that I would support whatever she decided was best for her.
We both know that her dad is going through a very difficult emotional time and is not really acting like his old self. We have also discussed that there is a possibility that he may not be his old self for a long time.
Thank you both again for visiting my thread. I will continue to post and try to keep up with yours.
Gr8ful
I would add that predicting the future on something as profound as forgiveness isn't really all that useful. The point that right now you can't imagine forgiving. Perfectly normal in you sitch. So,just allow yourself to embrace that right now is not the time for forgiveness,and don't beat yourself up with the implication in your post that you are failing and should be able to forgive.
And, remember that forgiveness is often mostly for you, and not so much for the other person.
My philosophy is that it's isn't my job to forgive, I am responsible for me only. Forgiveness is from the higher spirit to the one requiring it. All they have to do is ask, ask and you shall be forgiven. It is for us to ask, do I need to be forgiven, is my weakness the tempatation for the other. Was my lack of boundaries making life difficult for WH and my life more of a struggle? So I learn it would be best if I developed reasonable boundaries, detachment, and let go of WH allowing him to be who is, to relate to his higher power.
Love, forgiveness, connection and letting go are all a choice, the choice is not for self, it is for self to be a channel. A channel for change, to allow the gift of reason, the gift of knowledge. Once we know, realise, we can no longer be blind.
I believe this is as it is, it is my gift to WH to be the channel for forgiveness, the bridge for the higher power when and if he asks for this. He may never seek his soul, may never reflect from his own core. That does not matter, the higher power will do as it needs.
I have let go of the need to forgive, it is my choice to ask for myself. Long ago I decide to channel my higher power, that was the only choice I needed.
V
Asitis thank you for your post. I have read many of your posts to others on this board. Your advice contains so much thought and experience.
I agree with you and have read that forgiveness is really for me and not for the other person. I believe my H could care less if I forgive him or not and has certainly never asked for forgiveness. I don't think he thinks there is any reason to ask for it. Thus, where we are today- not together. So I guess when you can get to that place of forgiveness it will probably be easier for you to move forward with your life even if it means moving forward alone.
V,
thank you. I am trying to get to that place where I set reasonable boundaries, detach and allow my H to be who he is and allow him to have his own relationship with his higher power. It has been hard. And perhaps it's really my relationship with my higher power that needs to be developed and it's me who has to ask for forgiveness. I'm still struggling with that.
I have really been struggling and feeling lost these past few weeks. Just when I thought I was starting to feel like I was getting stronger, I have a relapse. I guess like everyone else it's a process.
I know I have a lot to learn and reading others stories certainly shows me I am not alone and not totally at fault. still swimming through my own story trying to sort out my responsibility for what happened.
Thank you both again for sharing your thoughts with me.
Gr8ful
It will come, that shift arises when we least expect it.
V
Gr8ful, just started following this thread...I need to find your other! The things you share about your H sound so much like mine. I'm beginning to realize just to what extent he has manipulated and controlled me over the years. Where did my spine go?!? I dislike this situation, but am finding myself very surprisingly happy about being fully AWARE...for the first time in decades...wow.
I am so proud of you for your unwavering support of your daughter. Way to go, Mom!
V
Thank you for stopping by. Yes, it is a shift and I can begin to feel it happening. It sometimes takes me by surprise. I would never have imagined that I would be in this state of mind nine months ago. At that time, I thought my life was over, I was nothing, a failure because I couldn't keep my marriage of 31 years together. But here I am. I have survived this betrayal. I now have to do the work to figure out what I did to contribute to my H walking away. I wasn't strong enough to look at that until now.
I so appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences.
JudyL,
Thank you for finding me.
You are correct, we have a lot in common. Our Hs seem to only be thinking of themselves. I remember when I was at the beginning of our separation I was feeling so crazy and mixed up. My kids kept telling me that it wasn't anything I did, but I couldn't get past the shame and fear of the separation.
Time is helping and so is the detaching. However, I don't have the extra concern of having a medical issue to deal with. That must complicate things even more.
I remember the first time I realized that I had allowed myself to be bullied and manipulated by my H for years. I thought it was "love" and concern. It helps to be aware, but we also have to figure out why we allowed it and how we are going to stop it from happening again using DR and deliberate mindful techniques. That's what I will be working on.
I know you are worried about your boys. They will be okay. Once they go to university they will be busy with school and you won't have to worry about how your R with your H is affecting them on a daily basis. Support them but let them have their own R with their dad. Do not feel guilty or try to make up for the lack of a R with their dad. Once his fog lifts he will have to do that himself. You need to concentrate on staying well because you will have to be the sane person that your boys will rely on.
I have been the only parent our S can rely on for the past 7 years. He tells me that all of the time. My D is much more independent, but I have also been her only physical and emotional support. I have my ups and downs, but I have decided that no matter what, I will always be there for my kids. It sounds like you feel the same. When you are having those really down days, remember you have to stay strong and healthy for your kids. Because your H will not think twice about not being there for them.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers.
Gr8ful
Thanks for praying for us. That means so much to me. I'll be praying for you in return.
Judy if you click on the name in the box on the left eg vanilla, JudyL, then go to posts, all topics created. You will find the list.
V
What is it, Vanilla? A prayer list?
No Judy a list of threads created by any individual poster.
I have lists of prayers and affirmations, if you want them!
V
I'd love your list of prayers and affirmations V.
Do you like Maryann Williamson? She has a wonderful book of prayers called Illuminata.
Do you believe in messages through dreams? I had a very odd dream one night that presented me with a number. I googled the number and a website about angel numbers came up. The number was significant and talked about divinely guided positive change. Anyway it was the first time I paid attention to a number in a dream. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Gr8ful
I wanted to document a moment I had today with my S. He came home from work and started complaining about his job. He was complaining about how he felt they had misrepresented the job when he applied for it and how they now wanted him to do some BS paperwork. This is not the first time he has complained about the position. In fact each day for the past week there has been something.
Well, I was tired and lost my patience and said something like " if it is so bad and you don't like it, why don't you just try to find something that's more suitable to your requirements ". And then I saw a look that scared me. It was my H looking disgusted at my suggestion. It hit me. STFU, listen, validate and stop trying to fix.
I immediately apologized, validated his concerns ( it almost didn't work), and sat down and listened to him. I think what was really bothering him was something all together different than what he was complaining about.
This was an eye opening experience for me. It has been so long since I have had any contact with my H that I was having a hard time remembering what I could have done or said that would have brought us to this place of no contact. Well I was shown an example today of what I was doing. It was like getting hit in the face with a cold glass of water.
Ask and you shall receive.
Gr8ful
V-I would also love to have your prayers and affirmations, please.
Gr8ful...what an opportunity! I'm so happy you were able to pull it together.
I wanted to document a moment I had today with my S. He came home from work and started complaining about his job. He was complaining about how he felt they had misrepresented the job when he applied for it and how they now wanted him to do some BS paperwork. This is not the first time he has complained about the position. In fact each day for the past week there has been something.
Well, I was tired and lost my patience and said something like " if it is so bad and you don't like it, why don't you just try to find something that's more suitable to your requirements ". And then I saw a look that scared me. It was my H looking disgusted at my suggestion. It hit me. STFU, listen, validate and stop trying to fix.
I immediately apologized, validated his concerns ( it almost didn't work), and sat down and listened to him. I think what was really bothering him was something all together different than what he was complaining about.
This was an eye opening experience for me. It has been so long since I have had any contact with my H that I was having a hard time remembering what I could have done or said that would have brought us to this place of no contact. Well I was shown an example today of what I was doing. It was like getting hit in the face with a cold glass of water.
Ask and you shall receive.
Gr8ful
Sounds to me like you did a 180 on him, is that true? In other words, in the past would you have taken your initial stance and that would have been it?
Avanti,
Thank you for stopping by.
Exactly, I did a 180. Although it was my S and not my H, I saw the same look on his face and it made me realize that the DB program can not only be helpful with my M but with other Rs as well.
And you are correct, I probably would have thought, "what's his problem", what did I say that was so bad? Instead I stopped and thought, okay, this is obviously not working. No more going down cheeseless tunnels. Let me try something else to see if that works. And it did.
Now granted, my R with my S is not the same as my R with my H, but it helped me realize that I was doing more of the same that was not working. And today, my S was much more optimistic about the job he said he didn't like. Wow what a difference a day makes.
If nothing else, I'm learning how to do things in a different way and taking ownership when what I originally did was not the right approach. Maybe there were more times than I'd like to admit in my M where I had to be right. UGH! That reality s***s.
Thanks for the analysis.
Gr8ful
Thanks Judy! I think it was a little breakthrough.
Awesome stuff, gr8ful3. Sorry for misinterpreting the male in your life that you were talking about.
Knowing to apply DB philosophy in all strands of life shows a deep understanding, meaning you can feel confident the skillset will come to the fore when you need them most in the future.
Avanti,
Yes, I hope it will come to me when I need it. Not sure when that will be as I am currently dark with my H. But at some point we will have to communicate.
Thanks.
Gr8ful
By posting regularly and reading other's sitch's you'll find they are almost second nature. Why do you think they only apply to your H, you've used them on your S, who's next in your world?
The lady who owns the horse riding school I go to for lessons, almost weekly pulls me to one side and asks for my input on something in her life, it's sort of embarrassing and uplifting all at the same time, as I am no expert.
It's great how these skills spill into new life areas.
V
Hello DB friends,
I haven't posted for a while because my life has been a bit crazy and my H hasn't had any contact with me for over 2 months. Today, I got an email at work asking me to call him at my convenience. I waited a couple of hours, then called him. What he asked me surprised me so much, I was not prepared for an answer.
My H, who I haven't physically seen in over 9 months has the ba**s to tell me, not ask me, that he was going to buy a house in the city that he has been living in for the past 3 years! I didn't know what to say. He didn't say anything about how we were doing or that he wanted to work on us, he just expects me to go along with this. WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE HIS HEAD? Is this his way of forcing me to ask for a divorce because he is too much of a coward to do it? Or because he doesn't want to be the bad guy? I don't get it! Why doesn't he ask me for a divorce before trying to buy a house? Am I crazy?
He said he was going to send me an email with the specifics of the documents he needs. Is he so dense that he doesn't understand that we are still married and I will have to sign at closing?
How do I approach this? What do I say to him? I don't think this is a good idea from my side or his side. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Do I need to get a lawyer involved? Has anyone else been in this situation?
Sorry for the rambling. I really need some guidance! Has anyone else had the same situation? Please send me some suggestions on how I should proceed!
I know I haven't been on the site for a while and I feel guilty asking for help, but l am very confused.
Gr8ful
Hi Gr8ful,
Not sure where in the world you are, but why does he need your permission or signature to buy a house? Is there a separation agreement? Have all assets been split already?
I'm in Canada and I bought my own home after my first H and I separated, but were not yet divorced. I never needed anything from him as long as I qualified for the mortgage without him.
Is he saying to buy it on his own or with you?
Avanti,
I don't think he wants to buy it with me as much as he wants to buy it using my financial backing. He hasn't ask me to live with him in this house, just that he is sick of living in an apartment.
Diane45,
I'm in the US so even if he buys a house on his own I'm financially responsible for it if he decides not to pay for it.
Diane45,
No there is no separation agreement and no division of assets.
Gr8ful3,
That [censored]! I would be contacting a lawyer to find out what can be done to protect yourself financially. I'm glad that here...for the most part....after separation any debts occurred are the individuals responsibility.
Diane,
I am going to contact a lawyer tomorrow to get additional information. Talked to a good friend today who said she doesn't think I love myself enough and have allowed him to keep too much power by not setting any boundaries and being too accommodating. This sh** is so hard. I'm so tired.
Thanks for checking in. I appreciate your advice.
Gr8ful
If you are financially viable for something, you have the choice to say no, so take it. Simply don't respond to his requests.
Hi Gr8ful! So happy to see you here again, although I'm sorry your H's insanity continues to remain in place.
Definitely talk to L. Absolutely do not help him buy a home. There is no way I would trust a WS with any responsibility...it seems to be anathema to them. If he gets mad, so what? You don't want to be financially liable for him. Protect yourself, please.
Judy
Avanti,
When you say it like that, it seems so easy. :-) I am getting there. I guess I'm just going to have to brace myself for the fallout when I say no or do not answer the next email. I may not be able to keep him from buying a house, but I don't have to make it easy. I just don't want to get into a fight over this. But I do need to set some boundaries. I'm going to talk to a lawyer tomorrow to see what my options are.
Thanks for checking in on me. I haven't had much time to catch up with your situation. I plan to soon and hope you are doing well.
Judy,
I've been catching up on your thread this evening. Wow is all I can say. Thank you for stopping by and giving me your support. You are doing an amazing job of holding it together. Stay strong. Can't imagine how it must feel to be dealing with all you are dealing with. Will continue to catch up with your sitch.
I'm trying to stay strong too. Trying not to second guess the future. Need to get some sleep. Haven't been doing that much lately. Please take care! You are in my prayers.
Gr8ful
I may not be able to keep him from buying a house, but I don't have to make it easy. I just don't want to get into a fight over this. But I do need to set some boundaries. I'm going to talk to a lawyer tomorrow to see what my options are.
Speaking with a L makes total sense, I cannot see how you won't have any choice to be connected, if signatures on paperwork are not evident a contract cannot be considere complete. He can't force you to sign.
Don't think of it as getting into a fight, more a standing your ground and up for yourself, by doing so might you be doing a 180?
Hello DB friends,
I haven't posted for a while because my life has been a bit crazy and my H hasn't had any contact with me for over 2 months. Today, I got an email at work asking me to call him at my convenience. I waited a couple of hours, then called him. What he asked me surprised me so much, I was not prepared for an answer.
I would have waited at least 48 hours before responding.
My H, who I haven't physically seen in over 9 months has the ba**s to tell me, not ask me, that he was going to buy a house in the city that he has been living in for the past 3 years!
I would just say " thanks for letting me know"I see nothing wrong with him doing this, he is moving on.
I didn't know what to say.
"Have you any particular house in mind"
He didn't say anything about how we were doing or that he wanted to work on us, he just expects me to go along with this.
Yes. I am not surprised. There isn't anything to indicate that you will be working on your M? He has been quiet for 9 months.
WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE HIS HEAD?
He wants his own house to live in. Seems reasonable to him.
Is this his way of forcing me to ask for a divorce because he is too much of a coward to do it? Or because he doesn't want to be the bad guy? I don't get it! Why doesn't he ask me for a divorce before trying to buy a house? Am I crazy?
The two things aren't linked in his mind. It's straight forward, he wants his own house to live in.
He said he was going to send me an email with the specifics of the documents he needs.
If he does and you have them, give him what he needs. If necessary through an L.
Is he so dense that he doesn't understand that we are still married and I will have to sign at closing?
If he doesn't then he soon will.
How do I approach this?
Get L advice.
What do I say to him?
I am unclear and I will look into it. I will let you know as I can see this is a priority to you. Validate.
I don't think this is a good idea from my side or his side.
Deal with the toys in your sandbox, he deals with his.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom?
Wisdom no, get an L who may!
Do I need to get a lawyer involved?
In my view yes.
Has anyone else been in this situation?
No, but my WH tried to establish an interest into the Big House, which I own after he left.
Sorry for the rambling. I really need some guidance! Has anyone else had the same situation? Please send me some suggestions on how I should proceed!
My views are above. Letc your WH find out his position for himself. You look after yours.
I know I haven't been on the site for a while and I feel guilty asking for help, but l am very confused.
That's what this board is for, if others don't want to post they won't! Guilt is an issue for you?
--------------------------
I agree with your bestie's comments above.
V
Avanti,
You make some good points. The reason I say I don't want to fight about this is because this is the very issue that started our marital downward spiral. It probably isn't the real cause, but it is what started my H's disengagement from our marriage.
Last spring, I did the 180 when he said he wanted to buy a home where he currently lives. I tried to have a conversation with him and voice my concerns about not living together for so long and asked him if he thought it would be very long that he would be in this city. Maybe it wouldn't be a good investment if he wasn't staying long term.
He got very defensive and said that he had no plans to come back to our home in the near future. He was working his dream job and couldn't see himself ever coming back. In fact he didn't want to retire where we live and really didn't see himself ever there again.
This was a surprise to me as he had never mentioned this before. In fact we had talked about living in two different places when we retired. One place being our current home.
After that argument, he didn't visit home for 4 months. Kept making excuses. Although he continued to call me every day and we went on an international trip together.
When he did return in the fall (he said to see our kids), I told him I was feeling that he was pulling away and not happy with our marriage. We very calmly talked and he asked me for a separation. I agreed to it, then the rest of the weekend, he tried to hold my hand and be a couple. It was so weird. He spent some time talking with our son and when he came inside he told me he had changed his mind. He no longer wanted to separate. Could we discuss how we could move forward and make compromises for seeing each other more. I agreed and we made some promises to each other, which of course didn't really pan out on either end.
Then another 4 months go by before he can make it back to our home and in between that time, I could just feel things starting to fall apart. when he came back over Christmas time, he was very stand offish and he picked a fight with me. Me, being so stupid and unaware fell into it. Then we had another disagreement about intimacy and the bottom fell out after that. He blamed it all on something I had done to him 25 years earlier. I knew we were in big trouble then, but wasn't sure how to get out of it.
Then the big fight in January that caused him to throw in the towel so to speak. All of this to tell you that when I did my 180 and refused to agree right away to buying the house, he started his bullying and pouting because he didn't get what he wanted.
I guess all I can do at this point is to continue to stand up for myself and not let him bully me into doing anything I don't want to do. I'm just not sure if I am being unreasonable or as V says, I just need to give him what he is asking for and let him move on, based on legal guidance.
I'm feeling sorry for myself today and want my old life back. But the old life that was good, not the old life with all of the conflict. I wish I felt stronger about making these decisions. I keep second guessing myself.
Thanks again for checking in.
Gr8ful
V,
I really love you. I wish I could sit down with you over a glass of wine or a drink of your choice and pick your brain. After reading your reply, I can see that I have not really detached. I'm not in contact with him, but I really haven't detached.
When you said "he is moving on" it made me so sad. I guess in the back of my mind I'm thinking he is really waiting for me to make a move, but he isn't is he?
He sent me his required list of documents today. That didn't take long :-) funny how quick he is to communicate when he wants something. I'm going to take my time to respond.
I'm going to catch up on you threads this weekend V. I want to understand how you got through your sitch and how you got so clear. I would like to feel more clarity. I feel so muddy and muffled. I'm second guessing every decision I make when it comes to my H and it is driving me crazy.
Thank you again for your time and advice. You are wonderful.
Gr8ful
Did you get to speak with an L today?
Because your H might bully you is not a good reason to not do another 180. You have a right to get what you want from life as well as him and his rights don't come above yours.
Stick to your guns and use the L to protect you.
On a different but related tack, Where are you with regard to clearly defined goals and plans for achieving them?
Avanti,
I did not speak to an L today, but I have a name from a friend and plan to call him on Monday.
You are correct of course. I am not used to putting myself first. I haven't done that for over 30 years. If it wasn't my H it was my kids. Don't feel sorry for me, I did it willingly. Just did what a good wife would do. So effing hard to undo and unlearn that behavior. And of course he knows that.
So the next question that you so eloquently ask is "what do you want out of life"? What are my goals, and my plan to achieve them? I need to think about that. Thank you for challenging me to do that.
I told my best friend yesterday that I feel like a failure for not being able to keep my marriage together after 30 years. She said to me, you should look at it as a success for having been able to keep it together that long. Most people can't. I feel a bit like a failure. I'm having a hard time getting out of that mode. I feel stuck. I feel like I have compromised so much of myself to have kept my marriage together. And I'm mad at myself for not being stronger. I expected my spouse to appreciate the sacrifices I made to make his life easier then you realize, he doesn't. Then all of a sudden it's 30 years later.
I accept your challenge and I will work on a few goals and a plan to achieve them. Thank you for caring and listening and supporting. Your wife is a fool :-)
Happy weekend!
Gr8ful
What you did in your M was what I wished for in my lifetime. He may not have appreciated it. He may not have reciprocated. He may not even have accepted. But all you can do is play your cards, and you did what you know is right. No one can ever take that away, and you should never have any regrets about that, regardless of how it worked out.
Of course it's ok to be upset. I am. At society. The legal system. And the people that do this to each other. But I can sleep because I am doing what I believe is right. There has been suffering and injustice since we began. Our legacy won't be that we were spared. It will be what we contributed.
Zeus,
Thank you! I'm speechless, really. I consciously worked very hard on my marriage, and you are right, no one can take that away from me. I'm just trying to get to a place where I can appreciate that, accept it and move forward. God help me! I hope I can get there at some point.
I have read much of your thread Zeus. You are doing an amazing job. I'm sorry your wife is in so much pain that she cannot see what you are doing for her. I'm discovering that pain makes people do things that are unimaginable. As much pain as we are feeling, I can't imagine the kind of pain it would take for me to give up my 30 year marriage.
Thank you again for your kind words! I really needed them today.
Gr8ful
...I am not used to putting myself first...
You've got your first goal lined up already, the opposite of this.
...I accept your challenge and I will work on a few goals and a plan to achieve them...
Use the DR book to help you, it'll give you guidance on what areas to work on and how to phrase them to maximise their impact. Post if you are struggling or need inspiration.
...Your wife is a fool...
Thank you, I needed that. All I've got to do now is work out the best way to help her see that.
You too Gr8ful
There is plenty of room at the big house, I can offer wine and cheeeeeeeese.
You are more than welcome.
In general, I don't encourage others to read through my sitch, there is a great deal of abuse and distress there. I try to be authentic and open so that ithe is authentic self. You are not a newbie and have the sense to understand that some of my sitch is deeply worrying. I am in recovery, so there is some light.
My M is over and I have dropped the rope. I still stand for M and for V. I have not moved on although I am moving forward.
There are some thread parties too on V's threads.
V
I found out this weekend that my H can purchase a home by himself without me and I will not be financially responsible as long as I don't sign anything. This is good news. I still have a few questions regarding whether I have to provide any of my personal documents such as my personal bank account info or my pay check into, etc. and then there is the possibility that my H would only be able to qualify for a home if my income is counted. But I'm not going to go there yet.
I hope he will be able to qualify on his own. I will have to brace myself also for the possibility that once he gets his own home, he will no longer want to contribute to the cost of our joint home. Another unknown.
So this weekend, I have been thinking about what goals I want to begin working on. I have come up with the following. Avanti, you promised to review and provide feedback. My first attempt at goals are as follows:
1. Find an IC who can help me figure out how I can put myself first without feeling guilty and why I feel guilty when I do put myself first.
2. Spend at least one hour a week reading something from the suggested reading list or a suggestion from someone on the forum
3. Do some kind of exercise, at least 4 times a week for at least 30 minutes.
4. Learn how to meditate
5. Say a prayer for my H once a day - this is really for my benefit
Does anyone have any suggestions for easy meditation practices?
I plan to do a little reading tonight and say my prayer for my H. Thank you Avanti for asking me about my goals. Now have at it :-)
Gr8ful
Great news regarding his purchasing of a house not impacting you. If he can't buy the place without your income being considered then don't let them have your information, it's quite simple, why should you?
If he stops contributing, move to have him removed from the title to the property. He can't act without there being consequences, it not your place to accept whatever he chooses to do and not do anything. It'll show you are detaching and may scare him into a rethink, it may not but that's not the reason for doing it anyway.
You goals look good, maybe consider (using your numbering above):
1. By when? Consider changing it to I have found an IC who is helping me to figure out how I put myself first without feeling guilty and to understand why I feel guilty when I do put myself first. Make all of your goal statement in the present, they are happening, it fools your mind into believing stuff.
2. List those you've chosen already to start with and add more, as and when others come up
3. Can you be a bit more specific? Lifting a cup of coffee to your mouth is exercise...how about something that gets me mildly out of breath such as... Also change it to the present, I am exercising 4 times a week for at least 30 minutes.
4. By when and through what method (classes, reading a book, online course...). I practise and would highly recommend non-spiritual Mindfulness meditation (Google "mindfulness meditation Oxford university Mark Williams"). I am learning how to meditate.
5. That is very nice of you. Why not expand this a little to include your family, friends and those who are important to you. Consider it you time for "giving back to those who matter". Also a good idea to a a timeframe too. 5,10, 20 minutes... I am saying a prayer once a day for...
Thank you Avanti. I have some additional work to do :-)
PS. How did you know my morning exercise consisted of lifting my coffee cup to my lips. LOL
Still working on revising my goals. Had some other family issues to help resolve and have been unbelievably busy at work. Work will continue to be very busy for the next 3 weeks. Have been exercising 3 days a week for at least 30 minutes. One day aerobics, one day yoga, one day walking. Have not found an IC to fit into my crazy schedule yet. Will reevaluate the other goals when I have a moment to breathe. But I will get there in another two or three weeks if nothing else pops up.
Tomorrow, I will send my H the documents he requested to purchase his new home, with the exception of all of my personal documents that he asked for. I'm going to tell him that he doesn't need them in order to buy the house himself. I know this is not going to be what he wants and I'm not sure how he is going to react. My guess is not very well. The L I consulted said it looked like he was trying to qualify using my income as well. That's not going to happen.
Please keep me in your prayers so that I can maintain my strength and not give into his demands. I'm tired and some days just wish this was over. Whatever that might look like. Some days I think anything would be better than this crazy state of limbo.
It is great that you've got exercise firmly planted in your regime, this alone is probably keeping you on a level and able to cope with the crazy work schedule.
There will be days when you want your sitch to be over, your goals and plans will help ease that as you'll be able to track your progress on and towards them so that the state of limbo feels a long way off.
Take care with your busy work life, remember there's a balance too far either way will have an impact. It is tempting to say, "when I get through this I'll..." what often happens is that another thing comes along and so you never get to the task you said you'd get to and before you know it much time has passed by; some might say you've been putting it off and using work as an excuse.
Rather than looking at goal and plan defining as a single session, break it down into one a day, 15-20 minute chunks. Doing this enables your sub-conscious to work on them during the time you are busy with work and so your plan and goal time will be ultra effective.
Thank you Avanti, I like that plan. One a day for 15-20 minutes. I agree, sometimes I feel I use work as an excuse to put off goal setting. Not sure why it's hard for me sometimes to follow-up? I do it at work all the time.
I must keep trying. I very much appreciate your feedback.
Gr8ful
Looks like one of your goals have just presented itself to you.
Do you suffer from a degree of procrastination? It could be the reason why you delay things and you need to look inside yourself for the why.
For many it's fear of the unknown, this is a desire to stay within their comfort zone.
Take some baby steps to try to break any habit you might have. Go for one day where you follow up on everything, the tough ones first, and see what happens then do another day and see if you are still alive. On the third day decide to make it 5 days straight and so on...when you reach 30 days, you'll have a new habit.
One last thing that is a comment on your second to last last sentence, as Yoda would say "there is only do or do not, there is no try" set any goal with language that is as if you are already doing it.
