Decided to start a new thread now I am back in the UK!
Link to all threads
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=36824What ups and downs yesterday. I don't know where I am going now. I feel uncomfortable/ awkward in my own house. Lots of things happened yesterday and finding it difficult to make sense of it all.
Sorry, long post.
Firstly, H texts to say he may not pick me up as he has a bad back but DS will. I say ok and hope it feels better. He then text to tell me he has a hot water bottle on it and will try and come to the airport.
H and DS are are the airport, DS gives me flowers and hugs and kisses me. Awkward brief/ pat hug from H, he turns he face fully away from me. DS tells me the flowers were daddy's idea when we are walking back to the car.
On the way home, focussed on DS lots of chatting about his plans for the summer, kept up the PMA with questions from both DS and H about me, flight etc. Chatty but did not ask any personal questions just a general 'how is your work going?
I am sitting at the back of the car leaning in the middle to see the road, H sitting in the front, grabs my hand and really squeezes it tight and says how good it was to have me home! This lasted for 15 seconds. Continue to chat, asking me things like what did I like to eat etc when I got back, sorry the house is a mess, he couldn't tidy up because of his back. I validated what he said and had a PMA throughout.
H pours me a glass of wine when we get home and proceeds to get dinner. It is clear from his movements he is in a lot of pain. So I ask him if I can do anything, he was saying no it ok but conceded to let me get him a hot water bottle. Calls me, darling several times in our interactions and conversations.This is what he normally calls me. I did not react to it and carried on as normal. Should I say so something?
H wanted to set up my iPad with all the new changes so I give it to him, noticed later messages was open on it? He shows me something on it and without thinking went and sat next to him and was almost snuggling before I remembered and pulled away.
Moved back away and show DS and I, something on his iPad and asks me can I see from the there (the other side of the sofa.) continued together as DS has now gone to his room.
Sat on the lounge and continued to general chit chat (I had friendly neighbour, PMA on my mind the whole time). In the kitchen he gave me a big hug, held me and said how lovely it was to have me at home, we then proceeded to have dinner. Did everything we normally do, even Grace. Chatted and ate dinner as a family, no negatives, laughing, joking, etc. DS leaves the table to play the piano (something I haven't heard him do for a long a time) I had to leave the room was quite choked up.
Cleared table and stacked dishwasher (made no comment) this was one of H big complaint is my control of the way it is stacked, what to put into it. A big 180.
Feeling quite tearful now as we were acting so normal towards each other I went upstairs to have a good cry. Sobbed my heart out, heard H knock at the door but told him I was having a shower. Lost it here, after all my PMA I did not want H to hear this.
Showered came downstairs and H we continued chatting. Talked about DS most of the time. H then told me he heard me crying. He said he understood it was hard for me to do this emotionally and physically. I didn't know what to say. I just said I was feeling very tired. H was laying on the sofa at this point because of his back.
I asked him if I could have a hug and we gave each other a hug and he apologised for not hugging me at the airport properly as he had a bad back and couldn't bend down. We talked about how long I had left before I went to Shanghai, and he told me again how pleased he was I was home. We needed to sort out how to approach this, I agreed here.
Talked a little about what he got up to, he asked about me. Chatted about the challenges of working abroad. Decided to have early night. Carried his iPad and hot water bottle to his room. I have the Master bedroom. Turned to leave and he gave me another hug and held me for a little longer. Said good night, hesitation on both our parts.
After sleeping for a little while, I went downstairs to sort the post (jet lag) also 6 months of letters to sort. H comes down asks me how I am, gets a glass of water and touches me on the arm and walks out. We are both very tactile when it came to our M.
I don't know what to make of this. He was like this prior or dropping the BD on me. Do I continue with this? broach the subject of out relationship?
Hi Smothy!
I'm happy to hear you made it home safe. Wow, what an interesting return home. I can understand why you were so emotional. Good you kept a PMA, it really does help.
I'm not sure what to advise about continuing to act the way you are, but I would not bring up anything about your R at the current time. He will bring it up when he's ready. Doing so now could push him away.
Good luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Bob
H has asked me what my plans are and would I like to go out to the shops with him. I don't know whether it is a good thing to do. I went I to the front room this morning and he held his hand out for me. I took it.
It is hard to not contact when he reaches out as we have always been very tactile in our M. I don't also want to appear cold and distant.
Smothy, can you clarify a few things in your sitch (can't tell from your sig)?
-is your H still moving the D forward? When was the last time that was mentioned?
-is your H still possibly in contact with OW? If not, how would you know to confirm?
-has H ever apologized for that behavior?
I think the answers to these questions are critical to the right next steps. I want things to work out for you as well, but feeling like you have to gloss over what happened out of fear won't work. The opposite doesn't work either (punishing him for the pain he caused, controlling him not to do it again)...but be careful that you maintain your boundaries in regards to his behavior.
Good time for a DB coach.
I agree, will call to make an appointment tomorrow.
The D is still,moving forward. The decree nisi was read on Thurs, which means in the UK I have minimum of 6 weeks and one day to make the D absolute. The last time it was mentioned was an email to me on 27th May.
H has discussed nothing of the D but have asked me things that included the future, ie would love to visit me abroad with DS. However, he has also mentioned things that suggests no change on his plans, ie sort out arrangements for dinner with DS, go to see MIL without him.
I don't know whether he is still in contact with OW, but he tells me no, this was back in April. A credit card bill suggest dinner for two in May. I don't know with whom. He is in contact with someone as he moves out of the room when his phone buzzes etc. H has apologised for his EA in December but not for subsequent behaviour.
I crave his attention but I don't want to see this as being a doormat. Last time I spoke to a DB coach they suggested me to be open as H needs affirmation that I care.
Shenanigans for today, woke very early and crept downstairs with H shouting Good morning from spare room, looked in to say good morning and H held his hand out and patted on the bed to sit down. Had a very short conversation about coffee/ tea. Went downstairs to the kitchen and my self a coffee and took it back to my room without another word to H.
H and I went to the supermarket and he gave me a hug and a cuddle in the queue (something we used to do and called me darling several times) I took no control of the purchases etc and stood back and let him choose what to buy.
Made Sunday lunch for Father's Day. We chatted and joked like old times, H was quite teary at the dinner table and had to leave for a little while. Later in the evening he mentions this, I said I understood it was an emotional time and did he want to talk about it. H declined.
We have a corner sofa suite, after lunch H laid on one side and I on the other, our heads almost touching, H reached out for my hand and held it the entire time. We both fell asleep. Reached out for me when I moved etc, when we woke said it was very nice. I agreed with him.
Have conversation about work around the house and ask me if I want lights in certain places, I say no because we would need to sell soon. Calls his mum and gives me phone as MIL likes to speak to me. had a pleasant neutral conversation, I have not spoken to MIL since Christmas. She ask me if I still have plans to go abroad for work?
Speak of plans for the week, regarding DS. DS has plans to take H out to cinema etc and H asks me why I wasn't coming. I tell him it was DS present to take him out for Father's Day. Seems concerned I didn't want to come and then said well it is up to you. Ds came downstairs during our nap and H did not seem concerned that he saw us on the sofa holding hands.
H has gone upstairs to the bathroom now but I am sure his phone has buzzed a few times. I do not know what to do? It seems so natural for us to be tactile. There is no animosity between us. I know he wants the D to go ahead but it has not been mentioned by either of us.
H has always maintained he wants ,e in his life as a friend after D. I don't want to give him the impression that this is what it will be like. The truth is once D, I don't think I could face being friends with him.
Please Vets give me so e advice. This is not what I thought would happen at all.
As I posted on your old thread already Smothy. still stands. We need vets to chime in here.
two things though:
1. you posted that you WANT him to back off. Why is this? Because it is hurting you while you know the D sitch hasn't changed? I think H is hurting and awkward as well, doesn't really know how to behave. It suits him to be affectionate because he gets the comfort that everything is OK, what he is doing is all OK. I can understand that you don't want to give this impression, nor should you be there to support him emotionally, certainly not at your own expense. However, to a degree I suspect you do want to show him that you are OK too.
You do need to establish a boundary though. Now. The lines are getting real blurred. Maybe Wonka or someone has an idea of how you should actually go about doing this.
The court date, followed by holding hands, this is screwed up. You're clearing his conscience and I don 't know that's what you should be doing. What are you getting out of it? Screwed up!!
Fine you were very tactile. So was my M. in the 1st few weeks following BD we also had these moments of "darling", and hugging. But they were not amidst the calm environment you are in, so short lived, and obviously wrong.
2. Friends? I sway to and fro here with my STBX. Why do you want to/ NOT want to be friends? Me - it would be better for the girls if we were friends. Better chance at R etc. NOT - because she has shown nothing but the opposite of remorse for her behaviour, and this is not a quality I look for in "friends". blah, blah, blah
Hello Smothy,
It sounds like you had an interesting day. I feel like our friend Pyrite asked 2 very good questions. I was wondering the same things.
Please respond when you have some time. Hopefully, we can get one of the Vets like Sandi, Wonka, MrBond or Cadet to assist.
For now, just take things one step at a time. I feel like you are going to make it thru all this craziness.
*hugs*
Bob
Thank you for the prayers and hugs. I really need guidance here.
H went to bed last night came over my side of the sofa, leaned in to give me a hug and kiss goodnight (on the cheek). This morning called several times up the stairs to say he was leaving. I had been in the kitchen beforehand making coffee. Stand on stairs to say bye and walks over gives me a hug and kiss, ask if I am going to be ok. Said yes and have a good day. It seems we have slipped into (on the most part) what we were doing prior to BD so easily. I do need to stop as the lines are becoming blurred. How do I do this without creating distance? I do like that we are still tactile. I sense H wants it and misses it too.
In answer to the two questions, it was a typo error, I don't want him to back off. It confuses me though, as I find it difficult to equate this affectionate level with someone who wants a D. I find comfort in the fact he is not cold and distant, which was what I thought he would be as during his EA he would not touch me at all.
In regards to the friend thing, like you, I to and fro. I feel if we are not friends I won't hurt so much. Deep down I want to be friends as my DB coach said we need to be friends before we can even reconcile. A part of me is scared that being his friend keeps us here and he does not feel the loss of me.
This is what I need advice on, is H behaving this way because it makes him feel better about the D? What / how do I draw the boundaries. We are creating intimacy with the hand holding, is this a good thing? H said I put others first in my time/ affection, how do I 180 this and still GAL?
Thank you for the prayers and hugs. I really need guidance here.
H went to bed last night came over my side of the sofa, leaned in to give me a hug and kiss goodnight (on the cheek). This morning called several times up the stairs to say he was leaving. I had been in the kitchen beforehand making coffee. Stand on stairs to say bye and walks over gives me a hug and kiss, ask if I am going to be ok. Said yes and have a good day. It seems we have slipped into (on the most part) what we were doing prior to BD so easily. I do need to stop as the lines are becoming blurred. How do I do this without creating distance? I do like that we are still tactile. I sense H wants it and misses it too.
semantics - but I think maybe you want to create distance, but I know what you mean. IDK what you should do. On one hand, you want to back off so that he makes the moves, but on the other - he is already doing this. To be cautious, I think he is doing this for him, to make it all seem like he is not causing a huge disaster. "See we are still hugging and friendly" and then unspoken "but I still want a D and pursue other Rs etc". BTW - after which time the tactile friendship will almost certainly stop. if only because OW will not stand for it.
In answer to the two questions, it was a typo error, I don't want him to back off. It confuses me though, as I find it difficult to equate this affectionate level with someone who wants a D. I find comfort in the fact he is not cold and distant, which was what I thought he would be as during his EA he would not touch me at all.
In regards to the friend thing, like you, I to and fro. I feel if we are not friends I won't hurt so much. Deep down I want to be friends as my DB coach said we need to be friends before we can even reconcile. A part of me is scared that being his friend keeps us here and he does not feel the loss of me.
This is what I need advice on, is H behaving this way because it makes him feel better about the D? What / how do I draw the boundaries. We are creating intimacy with the hand holding, is this a good thing? H said I put others first in my time/ affection, how do I 180 this and still GAL?
IDK what/how. sorry. I suspect it is about making him feel better, but then again this might be your ticket back in. Thats why we need a vets opinion here. Cadet et al?
maybe you should flat out ask him - what are you doing? you want a D - what are all these mixed messages? you can't fire me as your W and use me to soothe your own conscience. Definitely hold off on saying this though until you have better advice. In the meantime IDK what else you can do except what you have been. Don't initiate it, but don't turn it away either.
sorry - I don't understand your last question.
Very confusing. He needs to say the D is off, otherwise, you just have to act like it's going to happen.
Need advice, vets please help. I can't get an appointment with my DB coach until next Tuesday.
bump - sorry to soon anyway. How are you Smothy.
Cadet, Wonka, Sandi, Hello. swearing may get you [censored] noticed.
talk to me Smothy, rant - it might help, although 2.15 AM here, and after a week with kids, so I might pass out
wow - it automatically censored- no moderators needed
If the OW is still in the picture then this is all about Cake eating.
He wants you and doesn't want you,
he wants her and doesn't want her.
Not a great way to have a relationship.
I would say that if the OW is gone then he is trying to reconnect.
However either way you need to be priority #1,
not just plan B.
Plan B will fail within time.
That is not what you want.
Maybe someone else will explain it better.
If your DB coach has other advice - then listen to him.
so Cadet - should Smothy actively block his affections with a boundary?
My guess is that it is a pursuit and distance thing.
If Smoothy pursues he will distance but if the pursuit stops then he will pursue.
I think you want him to keep pursuing YOU.
Not distancing.
The boundary would be if Smoothy is being HURT by this pursuit.
A boundary is to protect ourselves, not punishment or manipulation.
not punishment or manipulation
sums it up for me.
but he has been pursuing before Smothy really had the chance to do pursue/distance - this is what makes me think he is just doing it for his own conscience. And indeed Smothy shouldn't facilitate that - yeah?
Would stopping him in his tracks be wrong or counter productive, if this is indeed him trying to reconnect? Keep in mind he has just taken her to court.
Cake-Eating Not sure if this might help.
Some powerful vets theory on the subject.
Butterflymom reconciled with Myfavoriteweirdo.
Jack3Beans reconciled
BrandnewDay reconciled
PDT reconciled
SGC is another mod.
Thank you, Py and Cadet. I have read the link you sent. I do want H to pursue but as Pyrite suggested, could it be because he wants to ease his conscience? Can I broach this subject with him? I don't want to lose this small Intimacy we have as I feel this was one of our strengths in our M and can draw him back towards me.
I don't think H is with OW. I am not 100% sure. H came back much earlier than expected and cooked tea, prior to this ask me what I wanted to do. Would loved to say 'let's go out for dinner!'. H asked if I wanted to watch a film afterwards.
He is still in pain so was lying down. He made a 'nest' of cushions for me to put my head on the crook of his arm. He saw my hesitation and said it's ok if you don't want to. H reached out for my hand and spent the entire evening holding my hand. At one point stroking my fingers and reaching for my head.
I don't want to think about every move. I want to lie next to him and for him to put his arms around me without me thinking/ analysing everything. I can sense my hesitation is pulling him away and he is more awkward with me.
At bed time, H bent down and again gave me a kiss and hug goodnight. This morning H was more distant than the last two days. H asked me about my plans last night, was vague about what I was doing today. I am going to dinner with a female friend tonight. Do I let him know before he comes home? H plans on whether to have big lunch or not depending what is happening at dinner? For me telling him would just be courtesy thing.
Slowly does it Smoothy. Still sounds unstable. Until he makes a commitment you have to distance a bit.
so Cadet - should Smothy actively block his affections with a boundary?
I still don't know what to do re boundary. I want H to show me affection, I think it would hurt more if he was acting cold and distant. It hurt so much when he didn't want to touch me at all in any way during his EA. Part of me had thought this may happen. I know no expectations.
On the other hand, I don't want to continue if H is doing this to ease his conscience. I know I have only been back 2 days but my gut feeling is that H wants me to show him I care.
If the OW is still in the picture then this is all about Cake eating.
He wants you and doesn't want you,
he wants her and doesn't want her.
Not a great way to have a relationship.
I would say that if the OW is gone then he is trying to reconnect.
However either way you need to be priority #1,
not just plan B.
Plan B will fail within time.
That is not what you want.
Maybe someone else will explain it better.
If your DB coach has other advice - then listen to him.
I can't speak to my DB coach until next week. So thank you for your advice Cadet.
I don't want to be Plan B either. I think H and OW had broken up before I came back but I do not know for sure and don't know how to find out without snooping.
I am proud of myself that he left his iPad out and I didn't touch it at all. However, I notice he took a bunch of papers that had all his passwords on.
Thank you, Huddy. When you mean distance do you mean rebuff his affection? H is making the first move on this. Do you have any tips, without it looking like I am cold and distant?
I admit that I like being physically close to him. I have been craving him physically when abroad and now back in the UK.
i would say thats the definition of cake eating! Still I can understand your position. I would give my right arm to be affectionate with my W, without OM in the picture of course.
in the absence of contradiction by a higher power - i think you need to talk to him so that you KNOW where to put the boundary. You're not giving him anything. Don't say "I'm confused" and put yourself in the smaller chair. If anything say your behaviour is confusing or not consistent with D.
this has dragged for 4 years Smothy. maybe its time to take control of you and make you nd your future the most important thing here. this dance is not helping your future either way.
if he says YES, then we are onto cancelling/postponing the D and piecing. If he says no. Then we now Smothy needs to set her own boundary, to protect you and your future and not be "confused".
by definition of cake eating I mean this bit H wants me to show him I care.
where you want to put your boundary is up to you of course. but he has to know that Ding your W means this is what you're losing buddy.
no doubt if it comes to this, boundary, then he will make you out to be the bad guy. but remember and even tell him - you're the one who wants a D ...... maybe dont tell him. he will filter it out anyway i suspect.
Thank you, Huddy. When you mean distance do you mean rebuff his affection? H is making the first move on this. Do you have any tips, without it looking like I am cold and distant?
IF you tell him of the boundary then act the same in every other way. But remember Smothy, you are setting the boundary for you. Who cares what he thinks. IF he wants to start piecing that is another issue. NOT setting the boundary is not going to change his mind if he still wants D. why should he, he still gets to cuddle Smothy, he can have his cake ad eat it too.
I admit that I like being physically close to him. I have been craving him physically when abroad and now back in the UK.
Of course you do. Who amongst us wouldn't. And so long as you know this is going nowhere, it suits him obviously, if it suits you to enjoy a cuddle and then wave goodbye when he is ready, then go for it. BUT I think you need to know whether this is going nowhere or not, before you can make a stand. And you dont have to do both at once. Get your answer. sleep on it. Then tomorrow tell him.
cuddles are all nice for now, but what is good for Smothy's agenda further down the track. Dont facilitate his needs right now by sacrificing what you need moving forward.
No, net rebuff, but he needs to put his cards on the table. If he doesn't want a D, he has to let you know, but as Py says, he may be cake eating, so you don't want to get hurt. Just steady.
Huddy and Py, I know what you say is the right thing to do. I am scared. I am scared that he is coming towards me then if I ask him the hard questions H will draw away again. I know I must though and show my self some self respect.
I will wait as H behaviour seemed forced this morning. H was even talking about meeting me abroad later this year! I will see how the next few days pan out.
Any other opinions on this?
If he draws away because you bring up the TRUTH, then he clearly HAS a problem. is it really worth it to be hurting yourself over HIS problems. I know you want it anyway, EVEN if it MAY NOT be real - because it feels nice and it is comforting.
Self Respect Smothy - you hit the nail on the head. I am not hearing self-respect here at all. No hurry. I dont mean to push you into anything. Just look after yourself OK. You deserve respect, from him and you. You are worthy and loveable. We'll still love you - small consolation from anonymous internet emotionally bankrupt LBSs I know, but genuine good will. Take care.
I fear his behaviour and feeling is still towards D.
Maybe after 3 days in, it's too early to tell. H said yesterday it must be hard for me being here. When he says things like this I want to discuss our R. I am so mindful not to be the one bringing this up.
So asking him to put his cards on the table seems like asking h about the R in a big way. I am no closer in deciding on what is the best thing to do.
you dont want to be the one to bring up the R - why is that? Because at this point, in this bizarre situation you think that not mentioning the R in these few days between court and India this is going to turn him around?
I'm no vet, certainly dont want to contradict your DB coach, but I would be surprised if anyone concerned for your mental state would support maintaining silence in this circumstance.
yes, I think that is the case. I don't want.to hear it and be reminded. To feel the hurt and pain again. My anxiety is not good when I think about these things. being pleasant and with H being affection is what I want now. I don't think H wants to bring it up either and deal with the aftermath.
I know I need to find out what is going to happen in the long run. I find D easier to deal with when I am not here, funnily enough, at the time when H served me abroad I thought it was the worst thing he could of done. I have changed a lot of my behaviours for the positive. I am still very attached though a little better than before. I have such a long way to go before I even stop caring about H.
I am not going to India now as my friend can no longer go. I will find an alternative though.
See - you know what is going on and what is right/wrong about it. Do the right thingy you Smothy. I know what pain you have been through and I hate to see this happening all over again. I can feel how tense the situation is and I can imagine that there seems to be a glimmer of hope that this will all turn around right now. I just dont want to see you hurt further.
well Smothy, If I can swing it I will go with you to India. You really should do it, I love India, so win win.
. I've had a few drinks BTW
So sounds like a really good idea right now.
Great, let's go discover India together! :-)
Went out tonight, LBD, heels, red lippy etc. could see H wanted to ask questions. He sounded almost relieved when he found out I was driving. Told me I looked nice and to have a good time. I leaned in to give him a peck on the cheek. He seemed uncomfortable at that. However, prior to that I saw a sadness cross his face when he saw me all dolled up.
I spoke to a friend today asking why dont I want to confront H re his affectionate behaviour and D. We both came to the solution it is simply that I do not want to spend the next seven weeks in animosity. I rather have the affection and D then us being cold and distant. Also, this may give us an opportunity to reconnect.
I will see how this week pans out, and speak with DB coach next week. H has become more distant today re hugs. It could be that I was not making this easy for him today.
Hiya, Smothy.
Heard your bat signal over in Huddy's thread. How can I help you here?
talk later
GREAT to see to see you Wonka!!!
Smothy - just dont get hurt please
-Py
Smothy,
I've read all through this thread and do have a good general sense of your sitch.
The impression I get is that H's OW is long gone and the EA has fizzled out. Am I cold, warm, or hot here?
If the answer is "yes", then you need to act like the OW here and slowly re-attract H. Make him
work for you! Let him drool over you.
This example is something you would want to improve on the next time it happens:
Went out tonight, LBD, heels, red lippy etc. could see H wanted to ask questions. He sounded almost relieved when he found out I was driving. Told me I looked nice and to have a good time. I leaned in to give him a peck on the cheek. He seemed uncomfortable at that.
Don't do that. Be mysterious. Just simply say, "I'm going out and will be back late." Then swish your hip, pivot and then leave without a backward glance. Leave him wondering what the heck you're up to! LOL.
Say absolutely nothing about D. Not a beep. Zip it.
You want to plant seeds of doubt in H's mind by being positive, upbeat, and breezy.
We all worked with Train in re-attracting her H and I am happy to report that she's now happily reconciled with her H. Train and Mr. Train are happier and stronger than ever.
When there's will, there's a way.
For inspiration, I am going to post Train's last thread here:
Train, roll on A few posts down, you'll see that Train has linked all of her threads. It's a veritable gold mine of useful information, tips, and strategies in re-attracting a WAH.
hi Wonka,
problem HAS been that Smothy's H is the one initiating the cuddling etc and she doesn't know how to react. I have said she needs to set a boundary here - but HOW. She is worried about pushing him away, 1. wreck chances of reconnect 2. she obviously is comforted by it
so HOW to establish a boundary here?
Py,
Smothy does not need to set up a boundary here nor state it at all.
What I see is that Smothy will need to dole out some kibbles of affection for H. For instance, move closer/respond 1 out of 5 times H initiates.
Other times, give a flirtatious smile and then go about her merry way elsewhere in the house. It has been use quite successfully in Train's sitch.
thanks Wonka,
i thought it seemed like cake eating and maybe Smothy should make it clear that's is what you dont get from an XW
Py,
I take it that H filed the D papers back in March 2015 and there's no movement in that regard. We have had several situations here in DB where it was literally pulled out at the 11th hour. We had one when one LBS and her WAH were headed to a lawyer's meeting to finalize the actual D.
Guess what? One sitch had the WAH pretty much say, "I don't want a D. Let's withdraw it." Wow.
Again, Smothy doesn't have to say anything here nor talk about D. In fact, Train's H was waffling between his OW and Train. So we all rallied around Train and came up with a game plan to re-attract her H. It is all in the threads in Train's link I've recently posted.
Thanks Wonka - nice to have you here
Morning Smoothy
Sorry I haven't been back sooner.
I think Sandi2 describes this in one of her threads. It's too early yet to jump straight back in. Your H is making movements towards you so you don't react in an ultra positive manner. You don't ingnore or rebuff, but you just show you're interested but not over enthusiastic yet. Don't ask about the R question, that can wait. See how it goes over a couple of weeks rather than hours/days.
Anybody else want to chime in?
Py,
I take it that H filed the D papers back in March 2015 and there's no movement in that regard. We have had several situations here in DB where it was literally pulled out at the 11th hour. We had one when one LBS and her WAH were headed to a lawyer's meeting to finalize the actual D.
Guess what? One sitch had the WAH pretty much say, "I don't want a D. Let's withdraw it." Wow.
Again, Smothy doesn't have to say anything here nor talk about D. In fact, Train's H was waffling between his OW and Train. So we all rallied around Train and came up with a game plan to re-attract her H. It is all in the threads in Train's link I've recently posted.
Thank you so much, Wonka for looking in. Your advice had really helped me to look at things from a different perspective.
In regards to the D, A decree nisi was granted last week. According to UK D laws, H has to wait a minimum of 6 weeks and 1 day to file for the absolute which will make the D final. The movement of the D is due to the time taken to D in UK and not sadly due to H lack of pushing it.
Does this change the advice you gave?
Py, thank you again for being such a rallying cry for me. I don't know how I would cope without your support and those on this thread.
Morning Smoothy
Sorry I haven't been back sooner.
I think Sandi2 describes this in one of her threads. It's too early yet to jump straight back in. Your H is making movements towards you so you don't react in an ultra positive manner. You don't ingnore or rebuff, but you just show you're interested but not over enthusiastic yet. Don't ask about the R question, that can wait. See how it goes over a couple of weeks rather than hours/days.
Anybody else want to chime in?
Hi Huddy, (((( )))) to you. I am certainly being cautious here. I can feel H pull away when I don't respond to his movements towards me. No hugs or kiss this morning. Walked out the door without saying good bye. Though I was in my room. Came downstairs when he was on the way out. Some hesitation from him then he went out.
You're very welcome Smothy
I you haven't already make sure you read Wonka's links.
Best of luck and have some fun with your new "game". Keep it light in your heart and don't let every little "hiccup" get you down. Of course celebrate your successes to the fullest
.
(((Take care)))
Smothy,
Your homework assignment is to read all of Train's threads. Particularly the last 3 to 4 when we all worked with her to re-attract her H. You can use the same techniques in there on your H.
Felt horrible yesterday, didn't have PMA.
No hugs from H but could feel his agitation in the kitchen. Yesterday, was probably when I really needed it, did not feel it. It was difficult to say just friend when H asks whom I am going with. Conversation then becomes tense and awkward.
Did not like the atmosphere in the house so will try harder today.
Smothy,
Your homework assignment is to read all of Train's threads. Particularly the last 3 to 4 when we all worked with her to re-attract her H. You can use the same techniques in there on your H.
I am on the second thread, already! :-)
A new day 😀. Have a good one
He comes home from work today. Had a conversation where he says it's hard to,adipjust and how am I ? I ask H what he means and he elaborates about the situation,
H then proceeds to tell me he can not go back to our M and he likes and has Neither of us have talked about any thing regarding 'us'. I don't know if I should put up boundaries. His affection feels good and I know it would hurt and he had got used to the single life, he tells me he has no inkling to see someone else etc. and he is happy where he is at now!!!!
I thought he was trying to reconnect too. :-(
Credit card bills tells ne hie is out every inthere ought at a pub / restaurant. I did not snoop just what has come through the post.
I am not sure what I need to do. Feel my lack of enthusiasm for him reaching out to me brought us to this place.
So, if he doesn't want old M, does he want something new?
What an evening. Messed this up big time,
h came home for work and we sat in the garden, having a glass of wine and a chat, started off really well with H saying it was hard for us to adjust and I validated what he said. As the evening wore on things went worse. H tells me that if I wasn't abusive to him in the 20 years of our marriage we would had a great relationship, he said he was always besotted with me now he hates me. He tells me if I came back to the UK 2 weeks earlier he wouldn't of been able to speak to me etc.
he said I destroyed our relationship with what I did with OM. I replied did he not think that what he did with Ow helped to destroy us too. And said I would never slept With OM if he didn't sanction it. I tried so hard not to bring OW up but I was hurting so bad. He agreed and apologise and said he could never go back. he is able to live for himself for the first time and didn't need me any more to make him happy. I said we shouldn't look to each other for our happiness. He said the good times with me was very small compared to the times I was horrible and abusive to him.
He admitted he contacted OW first while I was away but he swears they are only friends and with others. Though he did wanted more but she rejected him. h said if only I knew how devastated he was for the first 8 weeks I would understand, he knew I was with OM after the first time. I tried to tell him the truth but he did not want to listen. He said he hates me so much deep inside. It's only the surface that he tries to be civil. H states he hates me because he cannot allow himself to love me again. He is only trying to be civil for the next few weeks. He said he will file for Decree absolute with the minimum of 6 weeks wait.
Ended the evening with a hug, I tried to validate how he felt all along the conversation. How did he being affectionate a few days ago, turn to this? What now?
H said he knew that was exactly what I was like when I brought up the OW. That was a big backslide. I feel like my heart has been ripped out again.
More later. This is nowhere as bad as you think. 101 more later. This is nowhere as bad as you think. 101 Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.
Smothy,
I am probably too new at this to give advice, but I agree with Pyrtite above. Look back in your thread to 6/23, laying on the couch, holding hands, kiss and a hug goodnight. 48 hours ago small signs of H pursuing.
I just dont think a man who hates someone deep down and is only being "civil on the surface" does those things?
My guess is he's starting to get scared because he's feeling something, no matter how small it may be. Lashing out at you with words may be his defense mechanism to having to deal with his emotions.
You say "what now"? I say back to relaxing, LBD and those heels next chance you can find
Smothy,
OK - can't talk long, very busy at work - but - ^^^ as an objective 3rd party - this is exactly what I would expect H's script to look like. It may be calmer, more considered etc (due to 4 months later), but is exactly a post BD script.
2ndly - stop it with the excuses that he sanctioned your A. He sanctioned 1st time. the rest was for you. Own this now!! for your own sake in healing, and for your chances with H. You are NOT really validating while you are maintaining this illusion.
sorry to be harsh but you need it Dear Smoth
Smothy,
Whoops...yeah, it looks like you forgot to drink your STFU smoothie.
Remember how the WAS re-writes the M's history? It's par for the course. Really pay no heed to it. I know it raises your hackles and you want to defend yourself as a really good W. I totally get that.
And said I would never slept With OM if he didn't sanction it.
Can you please explain a bit more what you mean here? Is that true? Did H really "sanction" your affair with XOM?
H states he hates me because he cannot allow himself to love me again.
H is speaking to you from a place of deep pain and fear that come from some unresolved issues. It is those emotions that are clouding his view of you and the M. Not a true reflection of you as a person.
From now and on, do not ever speak about the OW or acknowledge her at all. I know this is very hurtful. OW is nothing. An annoying gnat that you can wave off with a swish of your wrist.
Next time, you need to be firm that you will not take the blame for his A with the OW. Yeah, you would have done things differently and that you've been working on your side of the street.
You can say that you both are hurting and scared from these horrible experiences with the OW and OM. You can say that it was a very painful experience for every one. Apologize for the OM. No excuses.
Hopefully you two can find your way back together at some point.
For now, I'd pull back and let H space to walk his journey.
Let's get you back to the Validation Cheat Sheet.
I think you would want to read the Lost Art of Listening by Michael P. Nichols.
Hang in there. (((Smothy)))
Wonka,
I made a post to you on my thread. Can you please have a look if you get the chance.
-Py
Smothy,
I am sorry about being so blunt earlier. We have discussed this before and you admitted that subsequent times with OM was for you. I don't know you, but I think I do if that makes any sense in this context, and I can imagine you beating yourself up now - "Oh its all my fault - blah, blah blah".
Look - I dont think it was all your fault. We have spent hours talking about this. For the sake of argument let's suppose it was all your fault. OK - big pain (which you have already done a lot of) - but what does that change for NOW! nothing! You are in exactly the same position. You are sorry. You love your H. You want to save the M.
So continue with what Wonka advised above. OK?
whose sig is it - Dont look back - you aren't going that way.
(((hugs)))
Smothy,
And said I would never slept With OM if he didn't sanction it.
Can you please explain a bit more what you mean here? Is that true? Did H really "sanction" your affair with XOM?
Thank you, Wonka, answer to question, H has a fantasy where he likes to watch me with other men. H never sanctioned me sleeping with OM more than once but agreed with this for one time only. I choose to sleep with him twice more after that. It is this betrayal and the lies he says he can not get over. h believes we had an 6 week affair before he went back to his own country.
Smothy,
I am sorry about being so blunt earlier. We have discussed this before and you admitted that subsequent times with OM was for you. I don't know you, but I think I do if that makes any sense in this context, and I can imagine you beating yourself up now - "Oh its all my fault - blah, blah blah".
Look - I dont think it was all your fault. We have spent hours talking about this. For the sake of argument let's suppose it was all your fault. OK - big pain (which you have already done a lot of) - but what does that change for NOW! nothing! You are in exactly the same position. You are sorry. You love your H. You want to save the M.
So continue with what Wonka advised above. OK?
whose sig is it - Dont look back - you aren't going that way.
(((hugs)))
thank you, Py. Wasn't too harsh at all. I don't blame the demise of this M 100% on me. At the beginning, I really believed it was all my fault.
H, as was I up most of the night in our respective bedrooms. I can hear him next door. In the morning no goodbyes, nothing. I stayed in my room.
This afternoon we (DS, H and I) were out celebrating last week Father's Day, H asked me to come which I did with a PMA. We joked and laughed at the restaurant and H sat next to me at the cinema and held my hand for the duration of the film. When we got home came and gave me a hug and kissed me on my head and thanked me for coming and how much he enjoyed it.
On the way home, he tells me is going out for the day. I ask when he is leaving as DS is also leaving for the weekend tomorrow. Was very non committal. I need to stop the urge on asking him about what he is doing! rereading Sandi's rules.
We settled on the sofa , had a light conversation, watched a bit of television and I can sense he wanted to reach for my hand. H took it once and squeezed it then let go very quickly. h was lying on the sofa, head close to me and it took all more will lower to not reach out and stroke his hair.
H fell asleep and I went out for 10 mins and he had gone upstairs to bed, called out for me when I went to my room and asked where I disappeared to. Told him that he fell asleep and I decided to get some fresh air. Gave me a hug goodnight.
So many more mixed messages. H has deleted all my family and friends off face book too last night.
I gave up smoking everyday for the last 7 years, but have a few occasionally. Yesterday I brought a packet and this is where I disappeared to tonight. When H asked me where I disappeared to, I told him I went to get some fresh air and admitted to having a cigarette. he said he understood why I wanted one.
OMG Smoth I almost forgot!
Whats happenning with your son? Does he know yet?
Ironically I had dinner at my sister's last night. Her boys 10 & 7, just found out mum & dad "lied" about tooth fairy.
OMG Smoth I almost forgot!
Whats happenning with your son? Does he know yet?
Ironically I had dinner at my sister's last night. Her boys 10 & 7, just found out mum & dad "lied" about tooth fairy.
The night H told me he hates me was the night I asked about telling DS. H said he does not want to ruin his Summer by telling him and he would tell him later. I think it would be better to let him know sooner than later so will,broach the subject with H in the next few days. I need to tell my family and friends but was waiting until our DS knew first.
After the day out yesterday, DS was saying things like the Smothy's family does it again and even H said we haven't been to the cinema as a family for ages and how much he really enjoyed it.
PY, it is good to hear you are finding some peace in your situation,
Until LBS detach and let go this is hard to find. I am going to a retreat today on spiritual self reflection and meditation. Your words have given me comfort. Thank you, so much.
Do feel like I am at ground zero. Last night H tells me he is taking a ' friend' out for the day, this morning just got up and left.
Stomach is now in knots and anxiety is high. Was detaching better only a week ago.
I'll be online in a few hours to talk if you like. Just breathe Smothy. Mindful breathing. Go for a run. Take care. Hugs
PY, it is good to hear you are finding some peace in your situation,
Until LBS detach and let go this is hard to find. I am going to a retreat today on spiritual self reflection and meditation. Your words have given me comfort. Thank you, so much.
hey Smoth,
found a few minutes. ^^^ excellent
. meditation - the secret to success. saved my life on more than one occasion. the past few months being one of them. Honestly, detachment, letting go, meditation - they are the same thing.
Let me know how you go.
Got back from retreat, H already home and saw he already drunk half a bottle of wine and into a second series of G of T. Did not expect him to be home.
Very pleased with my self, came in breezy. h asked me if I had a nice day, I said yes, did you. He replied yes and I said 'Good' left it there no queries, no questions just PMA.
Joined him of sofa, no touching, hand holding today, H fell asleep on the sofa. Went to bed with no hugs, just a goodnight.
Let myself down at one point as H wanted to stretch his legs out but was reluctant to , I told him I wasn't going to touch him if he did. Poor move on my part.
Retreat was good, Mike George was the speaker. He was very good and talked a lot about how our thoughts and feelings lead to our behaviours/actions and we can control those but nothing else. And in order to control these we must come from the place of self love and peace. He also talked about the only thing we can do is influence others actions. I thought very similar to so e DB advice.
Found the day very encouraging and something I will think about every day. However, was unable to fully mediate as thoughts of H and OW kept coming to my mind with lots of unanswered questions.
Hey Smoth,
Don't beat yourself up over these TINY things. You had a good day - on all fronts. Have another one tomorrow
See -
Honestly, detachment, letting go, meditation - they are the same thing.
Dont worry if you "couldn't" meditate. I dont know how much history you have with medittion, or exactly what sort of meditation you were doing, what you were aiming for etc, and I am certainly no expert.
I just want to let you know, that no one can "meditate", or rarely. On the other hand everyone can, anytime. There really is no measure of "success". On one hand, success would be achieving nirvana, zen or even sublimating into pure energy. On the other hand success is simply do you feel even a little bit better, more centered, calmer than you were before.
I know what you mean about not being able to calm you mind from thought about your H. I posted on this a while back but am more than happy to have this discussion again.
Like I have said directly WRT detaching and letting go - it isn't important to achieve, just practice, guaranteed you will improve anyway.
Glad you had a good day (((Smothy))).
-Py
Py, can you tell me what WRT stands for?
Ha Ha thought it ws 'wife resort technique'!
The only thing I'd beat you up on is the smoking! Smoothy, it'll kill you!
Seriously, take things easy. Marathon (with one of those daft suits on), not a sprint.
H up and about. Stilted conversation. Asked what I am doing today. Said probably go out later.
Had a call came through the house, phone was put down as soon as I answered. Redialled but through to mobile voice mail.
Unnecessary anxiety about OW.
So hard not to react when he is on his phone texting! Especially after the above.
I want to apologise to H about the OM and take full responsibility for it.
Something like H I am sorry I hurt you with what I did re OM. Is this too short, not validating enough.
I do own this and want H to be aware of it as this is one of the things that was brought up.
H has asked me to go to the Garden centre with him, he was civil and friendly. Sounds stupid but I don't know how to act around him without being cold and distant. I am upbeat but don't want H to think I don't care. It is hard to be around him without letting myself be hurt.
Smothy - i will reply to above - but first what I was in the middle of when this ^^^ came through.
Re: texting, phone call
Guess what Smoth? Maybe it is OW. maybe they are planning to elope. Maybe they are laughing at you! HahAhahaha! Sorry - really cruel off me I know - but point is what are you going to do about it? What can you do? Nothing!
Don't dwell on it. Easier said than done I KNOW!!! But practice your meditation. Actually I have a better prescription that really helped me in times of high stress.
Close your eyes, get comfortable like for meditation even. Now breathe. DONT try to clear your mind. DONT try to regulate your breathing. Just breathe. Do this for a few breaths, maybe 10, count it on the exhale. Don't try and control it.
Now do it again, but this time, without trying to control your breath at all, just take notice of where it is hitting the most as you breathe in. Is it the tip of your nostrils, in your nose, at the back of your nose, throat, in your lungs. Tell me where it is.
Then notice where it is hitting when you exhale. Is it the same place. Just do this, and then have a break. To be cont'd.
Ok - telling H? Delay. You don't have to tell him right now. You will feel differently about this in one hour. Please trust me Smothy. I have made this mistake too many times. In one hour we will discuss it again. Tomorrow we will discuss it again.
My suggestion is when you are really riled, don't get in the car with him. Tell him you have something to do. Spend time with him when you are on your best game.
(((Smothy)))
You are right. I shouldn't care. h received some texts when we were out and he did not respond or look at them whilst I was with him.
Was breezy and light, H wanted to look for some garden furniture and asked me what did I think of it for our house, I said it was up to him as he was the one who would be using it.
Had high heels on and in some places walking around he linked my arm to help me. h said should we have steaks for dinner tonight and I told him I was going out tonight and he was a little surprised and was a little more distant after that. He was going to buy a candle to light we both like the smell off and then he decided the queue was too long.
h did try to ask me where I was going tonight but I pretended I didn't hear the question.
Had a pleasant lunch at cooked the steaks for lunch rather than dinner. Kept up with the PMA and asked him nothing.
Is this the best approach? He kept telling me he dropped the boys off after the day out yesterday but we both knew he was with OW.
Is this the best approach? He kept telling me he dropped the boys off after the day out yesterday but we both knew he was with OW.
Hi Smothy,
I stopped by to see how you are doing. Wow, hang in there.
I'll wait for one of the Vets to reply -- very good question and I'm not sure how to reply. Sorry.
Bob
Thanks for looking in, Bob. Need some vets advice on this.
IDK - sounds OK to me.
i dont understand why the home shopping when that is all about to dissolve?
i dont think you should or shouldn't care. thats unavoidable. i dint think it is useful to try and jump straight to that stage. where possibly you shouldn't b aiming anyway. I mean if I didn't "care" about Ws adventures or whatever she does, then why would I even want to R. I try to not let it get to me, because I have no control what she actually does anyway, only my reaction to it.
Be appreciative for what you do have and absorb these blows into your stride. Day by day the blows will become easier to absorb. One day you WILL get to a point where you take a blow right on the chin, and say "is that all you got, hit me again". It will still hurt like hell, for a long time, but there is a serenity in knowing that the worst is over. You can decide when this is. I think it is for you. This should give you strength. Whatever happens next, it won't be worse than what you know you can deal with.
I think it is - mean I think it is over for you - you have already suffered the worst of it. From here on, nothing is going hurt as much as you have already sruvived.
I don't understand the shopping either. H said we needed to get new plants for the planters. When we walked round H kept saying that would be good on decking etc. I kept saying yes, but it was up to him as he was living in the house. H suggested getting new candles for OUR house. Confusing.
Spent the evening watching G of T with some joking, then we went outside and fixed the clothes rail, laughing and joking throughout.
H went to bed v early with a goodnight 'pat' on the back. This brought some anxiety back as during his EA he would say he was going to bed early then spend most of the night texting OW.
GAL tonight joined a meet up group so meeting for the first time.
Do you know who OW is? Sorry to say, but it sounds like a bit of revenge for your part in OM trilogy. I know he sanctioned it, but to me, this seems like the elephant in the room.
Maybe a vet would like to chime in here, but this seems like the real bone of the problem here. If we can solve this problem, can it be moved forward?
Smothy,
Do not bring up the OM or allude to it. STFU on it. It is a painful subject for H and that will need to be put on a back burner for the time being. You will have your opportunity down the road. Now isn't the time to do so.
As for shopping with H, I think it is okay. Try to reduce those interactions to 1 out of 5. You don't want H to get too comfortable with you standing in that "spot" where he knows you'll always be there for him to turn. Back to comments about getting "this n' that" for the house, why don't you step up and engage with him for it is a bonding thing for you two.
Dropping the kids off at the OW, you can state that you prefer that he not do this and you want the kids with you. Again, you don't want to do this too often. You would want to "train" H to respect your time by having some set schedule.
I am glad to read that you dressed up a bit at the Garden Center.
The next time you need to go out with friends, just say, "I have plans and need to go now." Be mysterious! Let H wonder!
Smothy,
Dropping the kids off at the OW, you can state that you prefer that he not do this and you want the kids with you. Again, you don't want to do this too often. You would want to "train" H to respect your time by having some set schedule.
Hello and thank you for your advice Wonka,
I think there is some confusion here, when I wrote about H dropping the guys off, I meant his friends. He was saying went with the guys to this, spent time on the beach etc. though H wasn't with his friends but OW.
Came back from GAL, h was in the mowing the lawn. H did not ask where I was and I did not tell him. Said how lovely the garden looks after he has mown it and thanked him.
However, he accused me of leaving cigarettes butt in the garden which I did not do and said there were others over there that were not mine. He was not too pleased walked away shaking his head. Not a 180 from me as I use to react in that way.
Both sat in the garden afterwards and chit chatted about how peaceful it was.i went into hot tub, H went inside and as soon as I finished, showered and came back downstairs he immediately said he was going to bed. It was barely 9pm. Said goodnight, no hugs, poor eye contact.
Another day. It seems as more days go by the further apart we are compared to how we were when I got back to the UK.
I think it is - mean I think it is over for you - you have already suffered the worst of it. From here on, nothing is going hurt as much as you have already sruvived.
Sorry, Py
I am not sure what you mean here.
Hi Smothy. WW accused me of moving her engagement ring the other day. I haven't seen it since she took it off in Nov. strange how their default position is its all our fault. Pay no heed.
Do you know who OW is? Sorry to say, but it sounds like a bit of revenge for your part in OM trilogy. I know he sanctioned it, but to me, this seems like the elephant in the room.
Maybe a vet would like to chime in here, but this seems like the real bone of the problem here. If we can solve this problem, can it be moved forward?
I don't know who she is but know her name, seen a photograph and knows she used to work with him. H says it is the emotional abuse I gave him not just me with OM. H did ask me if I have been with anyone in the last 6 months, the evening he told me he was once besotted with me now he hates me.
Forgot to say, when we chi chatted I apologised about reacting to what he said re cigarette butts but I did not want him to think I was lying about it.
He just sighed and said ok.
I think it is - mean I think it is over for you - you have already suffered the worst of it. From here on, nothing is going hurt as much as you have already sruvived.
Sorry, Py
I am not sure what you mean here.
From earlier post. Zeus told me once that his IC told him that usually people aren't so afraid of the event actually occurring, but rather that they won't be able to handle it. Pausing to reflect on my state of mind I think this is true. And i think you are in the same boat here. The worst has already happened. And we survived.
It makes it a little less scary, what you think might be about to happen, or anxious re: H and OW texting etc. You have already been through the worst of it. Whatever happens possibly won't be nice, but at least you KNOW that you can handle it.
nothing of what you hear, half of what you see remember. I am sure you have had moments where you would've said that you hate him too.
Yeah, it's always the LBS's fault. Remember what Py said about 50/0 - you know it's true!
DS asked if we can have dinner together tonight. I need to ask H about this and thinking of texting him.......DS would like us all to have dinner tonight. Are you OK with this?
Btw DS has not been informed our D yet. Yesterday he came into the garden to show us his new clothes for his new job, H and I both gave him some advice re tie to wear with his suit etc. H said he does not want to tell DS yet with his new job and wanted him to enjoy his summer holiday. Says he will speak to him himself when I leave. I think DS should know ASAP.
Any advice thoughts on this?
Yeah, it's always the LBS's fault. Remember what Py said about 50/0 - you know it's true!
nothing of what you hear, half of what you see remember. I am sure you have had moments where you would've said that you hate him too.
I have had thoughts were I hated him too, I would of never said it to him though because deep inside I know I don't.
I have to keep reminding myself about 50/50. h is a man of few words and is usually quite considered before he speaks. One of the frustrating thing I found with H, he was/ is? a people pleaser and a conflict avoider at all cost. This is one of the reasons we have got to this place as H did not raise any concerns until EA and BD.